#I don't ship Kataang at all but whatever

[thatbookgirl1118]

I cannot for the life of me find the original post (tumblr is a hellsite) but this was sent in an atla gc:

@the-badger-mole

and tbh i always kinda felt like kataang was weird exactly because of that one-sidedness??? like there's one episode of katara maybe sort-of seeing aang as a love interest (when the fortune teller tells her she'll marry a powerful bender), but then the rest of the show is her being passive in the relationship or actively pushing aang away (like their second kiss). and then at the end she just randomly decided "okay i like you i guess."

whereas aang got a bunch of pining moments and you actually believed he was in love with katara.

and most of their relationship was about how she helped aang - he did contribute to her character development over the course of the series especially as a bender of course but it didn't feel as emotionally/spiritually deep as katara's literal one episode sidequest with zuko.

but then someone else wrote "I would argue the opposite? Kataang is where Katara choose the peaceful nomad which subverts the trope presented where zutara is where she chooses the strong protector/combatant. Aang as a character is a subversion of the typical hero while zutara is like,,, coloniser romance idk"

and honestly... i kinda get that. aang was problematic in a lot of ways, but he was definitely a subversive protagonist, and i can see the power of allowing the woman to choose the pacifist vegetarian over the extremely obviously hot jock badboy. this is an incredible oversimplification of their characters of course, but the point stands.

Basically, Kataang is the ship we all logically want - the sweet, friendship-based, seemingly subversive one. But Zutara is the one that actually makes sense in the story, with these characters, not their tropes. Aang is subversive, but he and Katara are also kind of terrible for each other - he isn't mature or selfless enough for Katara, who needs someone to force her to take care of herself because she's always the one taking care of everyone else (wonder what that's like). That's why she and Zuko are so perfect, because he not only takes care of her, he makes HER prioritize herself. Aang... does not. He's pretty selfish, which yes is partially due to his immaturity (I personally don't count Korra as canon because it treated ALL the og characters terribly so I'm speaking purely from his 12 yo self), but it's also just a basic incompatibility thing. And Katara is actually equally bad for Aang - she enables him waaay too much, and he needs someone who doesn't. Who forces him to stand up on his own two feet and take responsibility. She's too much of a mother, and her relationship with Aang is too mother/older sister-ish.

With Zuko, on the other hand? Katara started out HATING him, forcing him to prove himself to her instead of handing him everything she had like she tended to do with Aang and Sokka. He had to earn her care, and as a result he appreciates it way more and demands way less of it. He's a far less selfish character generally for the same reasons, and is much more mature/has a better understanding of life and gray areas. Southern Raiders is a great example of this - he's down for whatever Katara decides because he understands that there's no one right answer, unlike Aang who simply preaches forgiveness. I'm not necessarily attacking Aang about that either - I do believe that grudges eat away at a person, and taking a life does haunt you, so forgiveness isn't necessarily bad advice. But it's not what Katara needed. Aang is great as a friend, but I don't think he's what Katara needs from a romantic partner. Zuko just... is.

[hadesisqueer]

I'm not saying people must ship Kataang or anything, everyone here is free to ship whatever people want, but at the same time, some of the criticism I see of the ship is insane.

One of the softer ones (because today I saw some crazy stuff) is that they're sibling coded. Like, I watched ATLA several times, I kind of just rewatched ATLA, and yet I still don't get how exactly they're sibling coded? Aang pretty much had a crush on Katara from the moment he met her, and Katara at first saw him as a friend —she never said she saw him as 'her little brother', by the way, you guys need to learn the differences between sibling dynamics and friend dynamics—. That starts changing at the end of The Fortune Teller when she begins seeing Aang from another perspective, though. By the beginning of Book 2 it's pretty clear she has already started to develop a crush on him. If you think it's very 'sisterly' of her to blush while asking Aang 'we're in the Cave of the Two Lovers, so what if, you know-- what if we kissed 😳👉🏻👈🏻', then get upset when Aang said he wouldn't kiss her and then after they did kiss and were already out she blushes and gets nervous again-- or when she gets jealous in The Headband when he dances with another girl and then blushes again while dancing with him-- you're tuning into the wrong show, go watch Game of Thrones or something, because this is not it.

You can argue that Katara was 'like an older sister' or 'motherly' to Aang over the fact that she was often very caring towards him, but honestly, that's not it, either; otherwise, you could say that Katara sees Zuko as her brother because she likes teasing him. Do I think Katara and Zuko are sibling-coded? Not really. But if you say that Katara was sisterly or motherly to Aang because she's caring towards him, you can also say Katara sees Zuko as her brother because she often teased him the exact same way she teased Sokka, her older brother. (I do not think Katara sees Zuko as her brother, btw; just clearing this up. And I may not ship him and Katara but if that's your ship, you do you, I am not getting into a ship war here).

Katara in general is a very caring person, to the point that yeah, it comes off as 'motherly' sometimes. She was like that not just to Aang but towards Toph and Sokka as well. That doesn't mean she really sees any of them as her 'children' as well, guys, nor do any of them actually see them as their mother (well, Sokka kind of did, but that's another thing). And she's very protective of Aang, yeah. Try to switch Kataang's gender for a second; Katara as the boy and Aang as the girl. Switch it up and you have a girl with a cute crush on a slightly older boy who at first sees her as a friend but after a while starts reciprocating. If you saw that boy act more caring and protective of that girl, you wouldn't assume he sees her as a daughter, you'd just assume he is extremely protective because his feelings are strong. I once saw someone saying 'Katara acts like a Booktok boyfriend' and honestly? Kind of, yeah. A lot of Kataang is them being kind of a reverse of the stereotypical 'kind but stronger, older boy gets with sweet, younger girl' stuff we see in a lot of media. Both of them are very caring and supportive and constantly reassure each other, not just Katara to Aang, (and Aang is also very protective of Katara as well, we see it many times, most of all in The Avatar State), but Katara is the older one, and usually the most protective as well, the one who fought off Zuko at the North Pole to protect Aang, the one who almost lost it when she saw him literally die and fought off the Dai Li, Zuko and Azula to get him and get out at The Crossroads of Destiny, the one who grabs Zuko when he joins them and literally tells him 'hurt Aang and I will kill you'.

Yeah, I don't think Kataang is sibling-coded at all. That person is right, Katara is just Aang's 'Booktok boyfriend'.

[the-badger-mole]

@allnewalldifferentwildspider

I will say, I think it's interesting when people say that arguing that the finale and Kataang happening the way it was just giving Aang what he wanted is somehow us taking Katara's agency away. Katara was rightfully angry with Aang in her last two encounters with him. Giving her agency within that narrative would look like her actually having a conversation with Aang and telling him how she felt. I don't just mean romantically, I mean having an actual conversation where her conflict with him is laid out and resolved, like it would be in any healthy friendship, and much more a healthy romance. People can argue that they had a conversation off screen. That's fine. I will never tell anyone they can't headcanon whatever they please. It's none of my business unless they make it my business. Have so much fun. Don't even think about me or my opinions. They don't matter.

However, she never had that conversation. It's not in the show. It's not in the comics. It's not canon. The way her moment of "oh, I like him" was set up implied that she only considered him romantically because he ostensibly singlehandedly "saved the day" (he most certainly did not). There's never a moment where she gets to be vulnerable with him and have him help her carry her burden. No moment of why she might like him romantically (and also, may I add, we never see what, aside from her looks, Aang likes about Katara). Any "build up" of Kataang on her end is largely done through external circumstances and not the result of her coming to understand her feelings (this from the passionate girl who wears her heart on her sleeve for the entire series). They are also never again brought up by her- and the times it brought up by Aang in canon are disastrous (Lava Fissure Incident. EIP. Arguably DoBS). Katara never has a chance to confront Aang on his blatant disrespect of her culture, and it's never walked back- in fact, IIRC, in the comics, he supports the soft colonization of the SWT by the NWT.

I can understand why people have the headcanon that Katara and Aang had a deep conversation off-screen that resolved all their issues and gave Katara a chance to tell him she liked him and why. I think that if you ship them, you kind of have to headcanon something like that. But I do not think canon supports it. Their deep conversations center Aang and his feelings. Katara's feelings never seem to matter that much to Aang. He didn't even care that Katara and Sokka had lost their father to the Fire Nation after Hakoda sacrificed himself to save Aang's stupid behind. He wanted to go run off and play. Our hero, ladies and babies. There has to be a lot of head canoning to make Kataang work. I know because everything I hate about Aang and Kataang is canon. If I'm basing Kataang on the canon, it looks just like the glimpses we get in LoK, only with a lot less hero worship of Aang.

Don't get me wrong, all the overt romance in Zutara is pure headcanon. I recognize that and I love that for us. What's not head canon is that Zuko shows Katara a ton of support and respect in their short onscreen friendship. And at the risk of upsetting Aang's fans, I will argue Zuko showed her feelings more consideration than Aang ever did in the entire series.

[sleepy-sham]

I think my biggest problem with the vast majority of zutara shippers is that they don't just ship zutara, they actively hate on Aang. As a kataang shipper, I LOVE Zuko!!! He is a phenomenal amazing character, best redemption arc of all time, I adore him!!! (also I love Maiko!!!! & Zukka!!! & Zukki!!!!) But I don't think I've ever come across a single zutara shipper that doesn't actively hate on Aang as a character as much as possible. If all they did was ship katara & Zuko, whatever, no problem, not my ship but you're free to do what you want. But they can't just leave it at that. They never can. & that is my problem with (most) zutarans.

[longing-for-rain]

What's the context as to what's going on exactly?

I assume you mean the people sending me death threats over a fanfictions I wrote (which is like... the 3rd? 4th? time this has happened now), but to summarize:

Ironically, I initially made this blog with the intention to just be very lowkey and post headcanons/silly posts/art and not engage in discourse.

At some point, I got an anon angry at me for mentioning how I viewed some of Aang's behavior towards Katara as toxic masculinity and answered it.

A kataang shipper reblogged the (properly tagged) post to whine at me even more, so I replied back with sources and maybe a little too much humor than she could handle, so she cried that I was a meanie and blocked me.

Had a few more experiences with Zutara haters reblogging my posts, making me increasingly annoyed.

I started writing more Zutara metas and criticizing canon more openly.

My posts got popular, popular enough that angry kataang stans started sharing screenshots of them around on here and Twitter.

I made fun of one particularly insane kataang stan who went on a few of my posts, and even into my DMs to screech at me for being every type of -phobic under the sun because I don't like Aang/Kataang. She still periodically blocks and unblocks me so she can shoot more of her brain vomit my way, and accuses me of harassing her for reposting screenshots of her unhinged comments to laugh at. She also accidentally followed me while trying to send an anon one time (I assume, since those buttons are close together) which was hilarious for someone who claims I bully and stalk her.

Recently, a bunch of kataang shippers got butthurt over a post I made referencing how Katara is drawn differently (it was a response to an Anon mentioning a much older post measuring the size of Katara's eyes and jawline) to make her appear younger during "romantic" moments with Aang. I commented on how I found it a creepy contrast and like how much more natural and human she seems while not with Aang, or with Zuko.

Another whiny brat kataang reblogged the (again, properly tagged) post calling me a pedophile, colonizer, racist, and whatever else his little rotten brain could come up with, and posted (without any trigger/content warnings!) out-of-context screenshots of a fanfiction I wrote exploring themes of sexual violence. This was apparently supposed to be "evidence" that I have a "fetish" or something, which needless to say, is an absolutely disgusting thing to say to a survivor talking about her experiences of sexual abuse, especially when you're a man who has never experienced that.

That brings us to why everyone is discoursing over the fic: Claws of Ice. Keep in mind, the majority of these people haven't read it, don't understand any of the context, and felt it was appropriate to leverage my trauma against me in the name of a ship war. The man in question is still crying about how he's the real victim here because I was apparently too mean to him when I responded to his accusations that I'm a pedophile and that my story of assault is a fetish to him, which is exactly the kind of male entitlement you'd expect.

So yeah! That's why they're all so obsessed with me, and throwing around every possible Bad Person accusation they can think of about me, but I really don't take it too seriously with that in mind. I was very nervous about posting this story in the first place because it was so heavy and personal and I was unsure of putting these themes out there, but the backlash has been oddly reassuring. The two biggest haters are that manbaby I mentioned, and that obsessive stalker who keeps spamming the atla-confessions blog with anons that are very obviously her while pretending she's trying to "calm down" the fandom, neither of whom can seem to formulate a coherent sentence. Like if that is the opposition, pretty sure I'm in the right here.

[zvtara-was-never-canon]

Noticed something about zutarians: for people who claim to be "THE femist ship" they spend too much time praising Zuko for doing chores, being empathetic, supporting women and other stuff he didn't really do in canon all that much.

Like, feminists would consider these a basic level that any normal person, man or woman, should do for their own's sake without any praise. Oohing and aahing "look, he spends time with his own child!", "oh, you washed the dishes, my hero!", "where would I have been if you didn't do the laundry, my knight in shining armor, you really are a savior!" is... very sexist, actually! And zutarians do just that. It’s not enough for them to write him doing chores, they have to emphasize this, compare him to Aang/Sokka/anyone else who of course doesn’t do chores (because no one except Katara and Zuko ever does anything chorelike in these fics it seems), or just outright praise him for that.

Of course, zutara never was a feminist ship, so my observation doesn't add anything new. I understand that zutara kinda fits "female gaze" or whatever, though, it's a women's dream about a perfect partner, which is totally fine by itself – it just has nothing to do with Zuko (and, dare I say, Katara – I doubt she would be so ecstatic about a guy doing "women's chores", she is used to dividing the work around camp and takes it for granted). And that's why I cannot read even relatively harmless zutara fluff – it very often is very focused on this exact subject. I like Zuko for who he is and the truth is 1) he's flawed even after his redemption and 2) a huge part of how he sees himself is his prince title. Nothing of it matches zutara fantasy of a male housewife, so they have a whole other character named Zuko to fit into their imagination land, and I just have no interest in that.

I'm still impressed by that one fic (not in English) where Fantara was 100% sure that Fanfic-Firelord-Zuko will never ever "force any hapless woman" to take care of his newborn daughter (as opposed to her awful, awful husband, Fanfic-Aang who can't even feed his son, who's still eating only breast milk, for several days while Fantara decided to be away). Sure, girl, he's a fucking ruler, he has a whole country to think about, tons of very important shit to do every single day, a full palace of servants, of course he will always personally change diapers, no doubt. I bet he'll even do all the breastfeeding by himself, since his wife died at childbirth and forcing other women is out of the question.

I'm bitter now, and maybe taking it too far but what if – just "what if" – there are very few people who actually ship Katara and Zuko? Because it seems that most content creators in zutara fandom actually ship their two OCs who are very loosely based on these two characters (but don't I dare tell it to their faces, haha, they are under impression that their image of Zuko and Katara is somehow the only correct one).

Just one little disagreement: Zutara doesn't fit the Female Gaze because there's no such thing in the first place. There's not a single trope, way to direct a scene, or romance formula that universally appeals to women, and the same thing can appeal to different women for radically different reasons.

"Male Gaze" and "Female Gaze" were supposed to be a way to point out sexism (and sometimes straight up abuse) in film-making, but it honest God became some bullshit gender-essentialism nonsense REALLY fast. We gotta let that "That is for boys, this is for girls" mentality die.

Aang does chores with Katara. That is completely irrelevant to me shipping Kataang. Aang is not sexist. That doesn't even reach my top 50 reasons to love him as a character. Aang does a lot of things that don't match the idea I was raised to have of a "manly man" and I could not give less of fuck about it. It doesn't bother me, but doesn't particularly appeal to me either.

But for lots of people that is HUGE and some of the main reasons why they love his character and his romance with Katara. And notice I said people, not women.

I like plenty of enemies-to-lovers ships - I don't relate to a single meta/analysis I've ever seen of "Why women like bad boys/enemies to lovers/redeemed villains so much." It all rang hollow to me. But to plenty of women it hits the nail right on the head.

Hell, 50 Shades of Grey is a "romance/erotica" full of accidental misogyny, abuse-apologism, and slut-shaming yet the fanbase is 90% women from all kinds of demographics, and the main thing they praise about these goddamn books/movies is that it did NOT make them feel like they should be ashamed of wanting to have kinky sex with a hot guy.

The Female Gaze isn't real.

[snogards]

I think it's insane that after the final Agni Kai, Zuko was able to tank a hyper-powered lightning bolt (I mean, tank in the way he was still moving after getting hit, even if it was just groans of pain and slight twitching). He just got healed by Katara for about 5 seconds and was A-OK afterward.

When Aang got struck by lightning, he was in a coma for like what? Almost a month? And you're telling me Zuko gets struck by lightning, and 5 minutes later, is walking around like it never happened? Sorry, I can't believe that.

But Sno, you say, Aang was in his most fragile state. Of course, he was in a month long coma after he basically died. Okay, and I think that Zuko being hit by a lightning bolt 100x more powerful than the one Aang got hit by would also put Zuko in a coma; especially because Katara doesn't have the spirit water to bring him back to life. Unlike Aang, Zuko only gets regular water, not magic water, to heal him.

"But, but Zuko redirected it," you say. Uh no, Zuko wasn't grounded, so that shit still hit him like a damn truck. He redirected some of it, but not all of it. I would probably say that it burnt him from the inside out. It's a miracle that in LOK, that man is still kicking it and being a badass in his early 90s. He should have serious heart issues, if not have died in his 70s at the absolute latest. The man should not be kicking ass in the poles. He should be on bed rest.

In conclusion, Zuko should have been in a coma for like at least a year (realistically he should be dead, but this is a kids show where the main characters aren't allowed to die, so I'll let it slide) and I will stand by that.

If you wanna read how the creators could have worked with comatose Zuko, read under the cut. If not, then I hope you enjoyed my little rant. This post got longer than I thought.

Here's how the creators could have dealt with comatose Zuko and the potential storylines our other favorites could have had at the end of book 3 and a majority of the potential and nonexistent book 4:

Aang is having to deal with the consequences of Ozai being left alive, as I'm sure the Earth Kingdom and the Water Tribes would not like that fact. As well as their newest Fire Lord currently being in a comatose state. They barely trusted Zuko. Are you telling me they're gonna trust The Dragon of the West? (More on this at the end) And maybe Aang would actually get some character development, unlike in season 3.

I don't think Sokka, Suki, and Toph would have storylines that center Zuko all that much, but they would also definitely be mourning the semi-loss of Zuko along with whatever storyline they get. Maybe Sokka and Suki can have conflict in their relationship now that the war is over and they might physically have to go their own ways. Toph can probably wonder where she can go from here. Will she try and reconcile with her parents again? Will she travel with Aang once Zuko wakes up? Will she stay in the Fire Nation and help Zuko sniff out traitors with her seismic sense? Needless to say, the 3 of them have endless opportunities.

Katara is now dealing with the guilt of not only having put Zuko in that position in the first place, but also not being able to fully heal him (even though he would have done that for anyone, not just her). And if you're a Zutara shipper, like myself, even realizing potential feelings and the conflict that comes with that. Or if we still wanna go through with the canon ending of Kataang, have her navigate her feelings about Aang properly and not whatever that original canon ending was. And if we wanna go the "Katara doesn't need a man" route (my personal favorite despite my shipping tendencies), she could try and navigate where she goes from here, like Toph. Obviously, she'll go back to the Southern Water Tribe and help out there, but what comes after they've recovered? She's not the type to stand by and settle when there are other people who need her help. Will she go to the Earth Kingdom and help rebuild there? Go to the Fire Nation and help out there? Become an ambassador of the Southern Water Tribe to help better relations with the other nations? (My personal favorite) The possibilities are endless for her.

But you know who would be affected the most? Iroh. Not only did he (kinda) lose his nephew, who was his second son, but he now has to deal with the diplomatic repercussions of his past as a general of the Fire Nation. Like I said before, the Earth Kingdom and the Water Tribes barely trusted Zuko; no way in hell are they gonna trust the man that laid seige to Ba Sing Se for nearly 2 whole years, regardless if he's the reason the city was freed from Fire Nation control. The pressure Iroh would feel from advisors regarding the fact that his only heir is comatose would increasingly get worse as the months go by. We know that Zuko will wake up, but Iroh and the rest of the cast don't. Iroh is dealing with the fracturing Fire Nation and pressure from the Earth Kingdom and the Water Tribes, all while his son is in a coma. He could see what he was going to have Zuko face by himself with no support around him. What would he do with Ozai? Would be a major question throughout the season.

Of course, in the end, Zuko wakes up because we want a happy ending for them all. But the turmoil we could have gotten in the end would have been *chefs kiss*

[akiizayoi4869]

(Mini rant since I know you also love Aang) I’m sorry but takes by that one Zutara account the-badger-mole is genuinely so bad, I’m dead serious. 😭They constantly try to twist Aang and make it look like Zuko is the second coming of Christ while Aang is the love child of Satan. It’s hilarious- like…I love Zuzu but to say HE was more altruistic than Aang in season 1 is hilarious. I saw a post saying that and my mind deadass melted. 💀Idm Zutara I think it’s okay but I don’t understand demonizing Mai or Aang, both are good characters and all have their own flaws…

Not to mention Idk they just seem sort of condescending to me if that makes sense? Like I just get a bad vibe from TBM 😭sorry for long ask but I just wanted to know your thoughts on their…interesting takes lol

Oh I blocked them back when I first joined the fandom on this hellsite🤣. A mutual of mine warned me about them, Sokkastyles, and a few other big names over in Zutara land. Unfortunately though I do see their takes from time to time since I follow Kataang shippers/ Maiko shippers and vice versa, and they sometimes make or reblog a post about the badger mole, debunking whatever wild claim they made (which is always amusing to see). The way how they try and paint Zuko as this saint who could do no wrong, including how he was back in book 1 is, like you said, hilarious. Not only does that just completely undermine his redemption arc, something that Zuko fans claim to love and swear up and down is the greatest redemption arc in TV history (spoiler alert: it's not) the way how they demonize Aang and try to say that he was a creepy possessive rapist just so that they can uplift Zutara as being this perfect ship is ridiculous. I seriously think that they just watched a completely different show from the rest of us lmao. And same, I also like Zutara. I don't have any issues with the ship whatsoever, but the vast majority of the shippers just get on my last nerves with their horrible takes😭. Not to mention that they act as if they are the only ones who understands Zuko and Katara, when really all they understand is two oc's who are committing identity fraud. Not liking Maiko or Kataang is fine, but you don't have to make up completely batshit reasons to justify hating them.

You're right, they do have a condescending attitude. They're on this high horse because they see shipping Zutara as being superior and smarter than anyone else in the fandom, which is honestly pretty pathetic. Imagine feeling that way because you ship a non canon couple. Get a life and get over yourself.

[kataraslove]

Are you dumb? Zutara is not the fandom's preferred choice. Zutara shippers (TO THIS DAY) get harassed on a daily. They were even openly mocked by the creators. Yeah, when it comes to people who ACTIVELY SHIP in the ATLA fandom, Zutata might be preferred. But to people who don't make fan content or engage with shipping, Kataang is the preferred ship.

You Kataang shippers are so butthurt that you have to make things up, it's sad

you’ll never convince me that zutara isn’t the preferred ship throughout both the active shipping and the general fandoms. for instance, i tagged this with the APPROPRIATE “antizutara” tag so that it doesn’t actually end up in the zutara tag. how do i know that this is the appropriate tag? a quick glance into “antizutara” shows that all the posts are anti zutara posts. which means that you’ve somehow stumbled upon this post by stalking my blog (not your first time, i’m sure). i will continue to use the antizutara tag in fairness for those who don’t want to see anti posts (something that your fandom doesn’t extend to any other ship that gets in the way of zutara). your attempts to direct my anti posts into the general main zutara tag is clear and transparent and quite funny, actually.

if my hunches are correct, i know EXACTLY who sent this ask. stick to one narrative across all your accounts. either kataang is extremely unpopular and no one likes it or it’s always been the fandom’s preferred ship.

i can guarantee you that whatever harassment zutara shippers get on their zutara content, kataang shippers get ten times the amount of that FROM ZUTARA SHIPPERS. and it doesn’t even extend to just kataang shippers because your posts have actively been harming the live action actors, too. did you know that gordon - at the age of 12 - saw all of your ridiculous “he literally looks like her son” posts that were scattered across social media to the point where he told one youtuber that that youtuber was the only one to ever express positivity regarding his casting as aang?

anyone with limited experience in the atla fandom that doesn’t ship zutara can tell you all the amount of times they’ve had with zutara shippers jumping down their throats & forcing them to ship it. i’ll never understand this phenomenon in which shippers of the most popular ship in the fandom want to pretend to be oppressed. it’s not a phenomenon to just zutara shippers, but I’m sure the origins can be traced to zutara shippers after not getting their canon.

[atla-confessions]

Where did the all Zutara shippers are female and all the Kataang shippers are straight white males come from? Shipping (like serious. fandom shipping) has always widely been done by women across board. I don't get this narritve.

I mean most male viewers just take whatever canon ship is presented to them

X

[geothewriter]

ATLA Live Action

Evening ATLA fans and shippers alike, I just wanted to pop in and make a quick post. I've seen a lot of discourse over the past few days and weeks that think both positively and negatively about the Live Action reimagining of the show. I'm personally a Zutara fan, but I've consumed some Kataang content over the years. From a shipping perspective, I think we should all do our best to calm down a bit and try to enjoy whatever is placed before us.

Now - meat and potatoes of this: From an avid enjoyer of ATLA in its various media (no, the comics don't necessarily tickle my fancy, and 2010 didn't exist). Regardless of our shipping backgrounds, Kataang or Zutara mostly, we all enjoy countless retellings of the same story involving the same cast of people. In the past 6 months, I've read around 30 novels worth of the same people falling in love and saving the world alongside incredible friends and family. What's one more fanfiction in the bunch, just one that makes it to a bigger screen? So long as it's good, let's enjoy the content given to us. If this first season is awesome, the big thing we need to be concerned about as a group is whether Netflix produces more episodes.

PS: One thing to note - this is not directed at any one person or post or anything of that sort. I love just about all of ya, and want to encourage you to keep making your loved content of choice. BE CREATIVE! <3

[dukeofdelirium]

https://www.tumblr.com/dukeofdelirium/760911562701701120/do-you-just-have-those-characters-that-you-see?source=share

You're so real for this...2024 and I still see people said, "Aw how cute it is between Light and Misa or (any female characters)...."

See, even for someone who don't really like shipping, since the first I watch Death Note anime, then read the manga, I can't get it if people don't ship Light with L...

When I found your blog : Lawlight & Kataang shipper, yes? Kindred spirit...See, when I tell people I ship Kataang, most people will be 😁😆🥰🤩 but then I said I'm Lawlight shipper, people be like 😑😭🙁☹

Like, why people can't love 2 very different ships, right?

So, in ATLA, are you Zuko/Mai or Zuko/Sokka shipper or neither? Why?

Right?? I don’t get it fr. Shipping Light with Misa specifically is like.. LMFAO I CANTTTT he literally hates her so much but it isn’t even that he hates her, he actively avoids all sorts of intimacy with her and when he Does do something, he only does so to continue using her as a pawn. I mean, the only reason he even kept her alive was bc he didn’t have a choice in the first place bc of Rem. And like, his avoidance and internal rejection of her and other women isn’t even a “Kira” thing, bc he still did so when he was memoryless and we also know he avoided dating girls pre death note/Kira persona bc he said he was “waiting until college” etc. So there’s a clear canonical pattern of Light avoiding romantic relationships with women. Which on its own would be like ok whatever, but at the same time there is a clear pattern of an active interest in male characters even when they are equal to the female characters such as Takada vs Mikami. There’s also the fact he shows no discomfort whenever L touches him specifically during Yotsuba arc, and also the fact that in the manga he asked one of his friends to send him a holiday card to which his friend replied “I only send them to girls” which is essentially stating this is a romantic gesture and Light did just ask for it.

I mean, I could go on and on but there is quite a lot of gay coding going on in the manga and then of course in the anime and subsequent DN adaptations (minus the Netflix movie that we shall pretend doesn’t exist)

I don’t rlly get the hatred toward Lawlight tbh? It’s pretty weird, because their relationship is like… 90% of the appeal of Death Note imo. But to each their own I suppose. Personally, I just think there is a lot of canonical justification and intentional gay coding/subtext to warrant it.

If Ohba didn’t want us to ship lawlight then perhaps they shouldn’t have written them to be some sort of fucked up soulmate pair who complete each other and perhaps they shouldn’t have make jokes hinting at L and Light having a homosexual undertone to their relationship and PERHAPS they shouldn’t have had an entire story arc where L literally handcuffs himself to Light for 100 days straight and where they share an UNMONITORED room…. LMFAOOO that right there was 100000% ship tease idc what anyone says. Ohba knew what they were doing idgaf

And yeah I know about the kataang stuff. It’s weird for me too. See Lawlight is my OTP hands down. Kataang is a strong second contender. I love both pairings about the same but in very different ways. It’s funny because they’re very drastically different pairings of course, but that also is the stories themselves and the narratives.

Kataang is about the most wholesome ship you could ship meanwhile Lawlight is inherently fucked up butttttttttt Death Note itself is a fairly mature story dealing with inherently fucked up subject matter and characters so there’s rlly no avoiding that.

I don’t rlly care what someone thinks of my ship preferences, the only thing that annoys me is antis who misrepresent canon like with Kataang or antis with Lawlight who basically say we’re bad ppl for shipping it. Like as if Lawlight isn’t a huge ship in anime/manga lol. Truly one of the forefathers of toxic yaoi 🤣

As for who I ship Zuko with: I do ship Maiko though I’ll say I’m not hugely invested in the pairing. I don’t have much to say on it other than I enjoy their scenes in the show and I think they are a nice couple. I don’t care for Zuko and Sokka, I think it’s kind of in that same category as zvtara and I don’t care for that ship at all.

I actually ship Zuko with Aang lol. Like Zuko and Aang when they’re older, I can get behind zukaang 100% in part because they are like that kindred spirit thing similar to lawlight to me. I really enjoy that aspect of their relationship and I again think canonically, zukaang would be plausible if it weren’t for maiko and kataang.

Anyway, thanks for the message! Hope this answered your question :)

[hello-nichya-here]

Let’s be real. The only reason toxic Zutarians and delusional Zukkas became so rampant is for the same reason.

Zutararians and Zukkas are two generations of the same issue.

Maiko is written so incoherently and Mai gets no development of her own. Zuko and her are a terrible match and treat each other poorly (I know the fandom can’t agree which one is at fault but I don’t think it matters).

Fans searching for a more satisfying conclusion of the fandom fav Zuko stumble into the waiting clutches of Zutarians or Zukkas who bombard them with their terrible takes, OOC writing, and admittedly beautiful fan art. Before you know it, they lose touch with actual canon.

This is all Bryke’s fault for writing Maiko terribly.

And yet people blame Zucest… nonsense!

Anon, I don't mean to be rude, but you're just wrong all around. Not only do I not think Maiko is terrible (might not be my OTP, but I am fond of it), but even if it WAS and fans had to rely on fanon for good romance, that does NOT explain or justify the way Zutarians and Zukkas not only act like their personal preference is objectively better than everyone else's but also actively lie to themselves and others about their ships totally being secretly canon but screwed over at the last second.

They do that for one reason alone: Entitlement. They're entitled, spoiled cry babies who screetch at anyone with a different preference because they take it as a personal attack.

Bryke writting Maiko any differently would not have made these people less insufferable. Hell, their ships hapenning in the exact way they wanted them to would also not do the trick, if anything it'd make them worse.

It doesn't matter what you think about Bryke as writers and people, or how you feel about the canon ships: The bad behavior of Zutara and Zukka fans is the responsibility of Zutara and Zukka fans, nobody else.

I don't like Legend Of Korra or the comics. Never sent a death threat to the people who made them. Never harassed fans of it or had them doxxed. I love Zucest to unhealthy degrees, but you won't see me claiming "There was totally a deleted scene of them kissing in the finale instead of fighting, but evil Bryke ruined it all, and if you don't believe my obvious bullshit I'll scream at you until I'm blue in the face!"

I LOATHE the ending of How I Met Your Mother with all my being, and resent the showrunners for being such dicks to fans and complaining we didn't praise their terrible writting. I would NEVER accuse them of abusing their authority over the actors and being predators just because I disagree with awful messages the finale sent - something zutarians do Kataang and Maiko fans ALL THE TIME.

It's really, really, really, really easy to not do that kind of stuff.

Be critical of Bryke and their writting, have whatever opinion you wanna have on Maiko, but let's not pretend writers/showrunners are to blame for FANS attacking people.

It'd be like going "Oh, this actress and her fans got death threats because audiences didn't like her character, clearly this is the writers fault for mishandling said character" NOPE, the blame of that kind of awful behavior ALWAYS lies solely with the people who choose to act like that.

[the-badger-mole]

It is baffling to me how Kataang shippers interpret that couple. How can you be a fan of Katara in specific and see how little agency she got in that relationship yet still be satisfied with how that whole mess turned out. Katara never gets to express her feelings.

Let that sink in. Katara, who challenged a waterbending master with decades of experience on her, who started a prison riot and freed captive earthbenders, who went out of her way to help a village of Fire Nation citizens. Who made a flower hat for a really cute guy she was into. THAT girl didn't get to express her own feelings for Aang. After their last two disastrous encounters- one in which he violated her consent after she tried to let him down easy said she was confused. After he had opened a lava fissure in her face because she didn't want to talk about his feelings for her. She didn't even get to speak. Her final line between the Agni Kai and that final scene was about Sokka's drawing.

She doesn't get to talk to Aang about how his treatment of her upset her. She doesn't get to express what changed between EIP and the finale. She doesn't get to confront Aang on his habit of running away when things get tough. She doesn't even get to hear what Aang likes about her (I mean, we the audience know that he thinks she's pretty, but beyond that?). The way the finale sets up Kataang it makes it seem like Katara is only into Aang now because he's Th3 r3@L H3r0!!!! (lies, but that's another rant). It makes her look either like she feels obligated or she's incredibly shallow (which, we know she isn't). But somehow this feels like a satisfying culminating moment for Kataang shippers???

And let me be clear, I don't care. I don't care if you are reading this now and you like both Kataang and Aang. I don't care if you truly do think their story is the height of romance. I am not here to debate you on the story merits of Kataang vs Zutara or change your mind on anything. You can like or hate whatever you want in good health as far as I'm concerned. Just know that if you try to argue with me, this is my opinion; Aang is fetid trash. Kataang is somehow both the most boring and the most toxic relationship in the show (yeah, I'm including Maiko). All trying to argue with me will accomplish is to stir up more examples in my mind about why Kataang is a terrible ship and Aang is an awful character/friend/SO/father, so jump into my inbox if you want that. But wouldn't you rather go talk to your fellow shipper fans about it?

[eponastory]

You know what would be so funny? If Zutara wasn't even remotely present(although I do think it will be hinted in s2 of NATLA), and the only relationship that's developed in the season is Toph/Aang? Like if they're going with a teen actress playing Toph, then something must be happening with their relationship in the future, at least. I mean, come on, they ask in the casting call for dancing moves.

Look, all I'm saying is, it would be so funny if the Kataangers would be like...super dumbfounded that Aang would be trying to flirt with another girl that's NOT Katara. They think Aang has to hook up with Katara, but...Aang has other options...like, look at Toph. XD

And like...they're in a real-world setting. They can't go by the cartoon's (stupid) rules and canon. Honestly, the story is more important, and I think it's telling the story just fine. So what if the ships changed? The story stays the same. X)

I just feel like it's so funny that they're so worried about Zutara, when they're not even thinking about the OTHER ship that could potentially happen. XD I mean it, I feel like they're gonna do something with Aang and Toph's relationship. I can just feel it. And it's going to pull the wool over their eyes. XD

(Also, another thing to add, I hope they'll let Aang ask Toph for consent if he can kiss her. That'll be like a big kick to the groin for Bryke. XD I hope s2 is like a subtle bashing fest of them. X) )

I'm not a huge fan of Taang, I can see where everyone is coming from with it, but it's just not my thing.

But yes, the writers are silly men who don't care about their fan base.

I'd like more options for Aang and the entire cast in general because you can fall in love several times but only really LOVE (as in Eros) one person and be able to stay loving them. That is until that love (figurative) dies for whatever reason.

I know there is (allegedly) a thing where there was supposed to be an (alleged) love triangle between Toph, Aang, and Katara as (allegedly) stated by past writers and (or) producers. I don't know how true this is, but I can see it.

I honestly wouldn't get my hopes too far up in the atmosphere for any kind of romantic sub-plot (except for Sukka because that IS a thing) in the LA. It would be nice to get Zutara... but I'm not super convinced... yet.

I'm just here keeping it real while destroying any hopes the Antis have. It's all good.

[longing-for-rain]

Just so you know, some of your anons are coming from a blog called @mal3vol3nt

I do not know if you’re aware, but she’s chronically obsessed with you and has also been sharing your ao3 on Twitter and inciting harassment there too, saying you’re “racist” and a “degenerate” and accusing you of writing underage. Her blog lately is mainly posts about you and it sounds very similar to some of your anons

I had to check this out for myself and...wow. All I can say is just...wow 🤣

No, I actually had no idea who this person was but from the looks of it she's been obsessed with me for months? I guess that explains the anons, I knew these people were mad, but apparently they've been over here steaming over my takes and are legitimately terrified of me. And I didn't even know them! Didn't realize I've been doing numbers on Twitter (or X whatever it is now) despite never having an account.

(The rest is below; please don't click if you do not wish to see insensitive discussions of rape or if you are not in the mood to read opinions so malformed they will melt your brain)

I guess I have another angry little troll who doesn't know what a captial letter is obsessed with me. Wish I could say it was the first time, but alas. A lot of particularly funny things here though.

> Advertising your terrible ragebait Twitter like anyone finds you important

Lmao.

> "write fanfiction of katara being raped so zuko can save her"

What a terrible misread of the point of that story, but then again, I don't expect much else from a terminally online crybaby who exclusively consumes media for children. If you can't handle adult discussions about adult topics, maybe don't read stories that are clearly marked 18+ and with far more extensive trigger warnings than any mainstream media will give you.

> "measuring the size of her breasts and hips"

Lmao. I said she is drawn differently in different scenes. That's it. You guys are another level of unhinged.

> "obviously fetishes and racism"

It's kind of creepy how they sexualize Zutara, while simultaneously accusing us of doing that. Why do you assume a fetish is the only reason behind someone liking a ship? Why would you say this about a group of people including many black, brown, and indigenous women? And minors? And if you want to get into the whole fetish thing, don't even get me started on the shit I've seen from the kataang fandom. Hint: when I say some of you have a "mommy fetish" I mean it in a very literal sense. Not to mention the whole kataang rape discord debacle.

> "sick fantasies about these minor characters"

I have never depicted a minor in a sexual situation. I make a point to explicitly avoid doing that, and all characters are depicted as adults. Your lack of media literacy isn't an argument. If you're going to criticize my writing, at least read it, which you clearly didn't. And if the content is too upsetting for you, you clearly lack the maturity to engage in these kinds of discussions.

Imagine treating ship discourse this seriously, actually unhinged. Who said that Ember Island Players is the real Katara? What? She talks a big number about coke-fueled rants, must have given it a try herself. How do you expect to be taken seriously when you never say anything of substance and screech "racism" or "colonizer" every other word but can't even articulate the significance of those terms? Honestly, at this point you sound like a right-winger who thinks saying "but I'm [identity] and I agree with [opinion]" is a golden ticket to winning every argument.

And look at this: apparently I deserved all the things she and her friends sent me? Actually I respect this take, at least she's honest about it unlike the people who cry and backpeddle when they get caught red-handed.

I'm actually cackling at this one. Genuinely laughing; my neighbors are probably concerned. It's like you took every single Bad Person Allegation and threw it into a blender. And to top it all off, apparently 24 is "pushing 30" now LMAO. And apparently I, a lesbian, could only possibly like Zutara because I think Zuko is hot. Not to mention the way they entirely miss the point of Zutara, but ATLA itself, by insisting that Zuko is a "violent imperialist" who is apparently unworthy of love by anyone who does not share his skin tone. Kind of ironic coming from the people crying that I'm a racist who doesn't understand the show. Next level clownery.

This is so funny. These people are absolutely terrified of me, no amount of unhinged anons will hide that. It's fine for men to tell me I deserve rape and death, that I'm a dirty pervert for daring to speak out about sexual trauma, and that women's sexual trauma is nothing but a fetish, but if I respond to that man telling him he should die for being so disrespectful and misogynistic to rape victims, I'm the monster? I stand by it. If you think what he said about rape and rape victims is acceptable, especially if you're a man, die! Hang from ropes, as I said.🥰

I guess I should be really scared though. This is clearly a very influential figure in the fandom who is renowned for her enlightened wisdom on the plight of fictional cartoon characters against evil imperialists like me (adult with job).

...oh wait. I was excited for a minute, I thought I was dealing with a celebrity. But even the "callouts" struggle to hit 20 notes :/

And to everyone sending me positivity during this time, thank you very much! But I wanted to show you this to assure you I'm doing just fine. People can act as weird as they want behind a gray face, but after seeing the kinds of whiny little brats they are in reality, it's pretty hard to take it seriously. "I got my plane ticket" my ass, that would require you to leave your decaying, trash-filled apartment.