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religion-is-a-mental-illness · 9 months

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"Trans away the gay": "Being gay should NOT be a medical problem in 2023

Andrew Doyle: Speaking in the House of Commons this week, the UK Secretary of State for Women and Equalities, Kemi Badenoch said the following:

Kemi Badenoch: "We are seeing, I would say, almost an epidemic of young gay children, young gay children, being told that they are trans, and being put on a medical pathway for irreversible decisions and they are regretting it. That is what I'm doing for young LGBT children. I am making sure, I am making sure that young people do not find themselves sterilized because they are being exploited by people who do not understand what these issues are."

Strong words from Kemi Badenoch, but joining me now to discuss it is Dennis Kavanagh, director of the Gay Men's Network.

It is very refreshing to hear a member of parliament stand up in the House of Commons and say this, because this, the debate has been silenced on this for so long, hasn't it?

Dennis Kavanagh: Well, that's right, as you probably know Andrew, in 2015 when Stonewall adopted extreme gender identity ideology, they also adopted a tactic which they called "No Debate," and it's as simple as it sounds. It meant that they would present a series of extremist demands, and absolutely not debate any policy, any proposition, and woe betide anyone who challenged them. They would be canceled, they'd be called transphobic, they'd be called bigots.

"No Debate" died in the House of Commons on Wednesday of this week, and as I wrote this week, the last rites were administered by Kemi Badenoch. And thank goodness that it is gone, because behind "No Debate," the very constituency Stonewall was set up to serve and represent, gay people, were being hurt by this. You and I have spoken before. We know that 80 to 90% of children, and I remind people this is children we're talking about, at the Tavistock were same-sex attracted, 35% autistic, 70% presenting with five or so comorbidities. Deeply, deeply, deeply vulnerable people. The sort of people who were facing irreversible medical changes, and what are the gay rights charities doing? They're saying there should be no discussion about this.

Doyle: So, that's really interesting, because you know, you saw in that clip the MP Chris Bryant on the other side of the house, effectively sneering at what she's -- now he's a gay man and he's sort of saying that he believes that he's standing up for gay people. Stonewall would say that they are standing up for gay people. So what would you say to that? How is it that they are in fact damaging gay people?

Kavanagh: It's just ludicrous because if you look at that exchange in Parliament, what happened was the Secretary of State for Women and Equalities, Kemi Badenoch, made a series of very sensible points about what's going on in gender medicine. I want to emphasize this isn't party political. She herself said this isn't a left-right issue. She had exchanges with the heroic Neil Hanvey MP from the Alba party and the brilliant Joanna Cherry KC MP from the Scottish National Party, I'm sure I've seen her have similar exchanges with Rosie Duffield from the Labor Party and these are adult exchanges about pediatric medicine.

Now, Sir Chris Bryant sadly stood up in the chamber about this serious area and simply said, which I found rather odd, simply said, "well what the Secretary of State said has made me feel less safe." That's extraordinary for a grown man to be saying that across the floor of the chamber. It's embarrassing to me to hear a gay man say it.

Doyle: I mean, he might feel less safe, we can't talk about his emotions, I suppose, but what about the gay people, gay young children who are being fast-tracked onto medication because they're not the norm?

Kavanagh: Yeah, what a very good point. You want to talk about safety, Sir Chris Bryant, let's talk about the safety of Keira Bell. Now, the Secretary of State spoke to Keira Bell. Keira Bell is a lesbian, a detransitioner who was so badly hurt by gender medicine at the Tavistock, she mounted a remedy in judicial review in 2020. If we're going to talk about anyone's safety in this debate, let's talk about the safety of vulnerable young gay and lesbian children, vulnerable autistic children. Let's be honest what's going on here. This "I feel unsafe" is just a continuation of "no debate." It's just a different way of saying, "shut up you should feel bad because you've made me, a gay man, upset." That is not an adult way to have a debate. And it's particularly inappropriate when we're talking about pediatric medicine. We're talking about the health of young gay people, young lesbians, and young people on the autistic spectrum.

Doyle: Yes, but the problem is that a lot of gay people like Chris Bryant do seem to support these views, and do seem to think that anyone who is raising concerns such as yourself, is coming from a place of -- what is it, transphobia? Hatred? Bigotry? Whatever. Why is it the case that so many within -- well, shall I say, our community seem to support incredibly anti-gay movements? What's going on there?

Kavanagh: I ask myself this every day, cause we're all looking at the same evidence, right? I've read the Interim Cass Review where Hillary Cass, quote, "spoke to lesbians who reported pressure to trans identify because they felt they were at the bottom of the heap." We've read the Times article. You know, there was a dark joke amongst Tavistock staff, "soon there will be no gay people left." We've read the case of Sonia Appleby, the safeguarding lead who said the malign influence of Mermaids was leading to children being fast-tracked to making irreversible medical decisions. So I don't think I really know the answer to your question, Andrew, because we're all looking at the same thing. It's almost like they're blinded by Stonewall briefing sheets, because I hear a continuation of "no debate" tactics. They won't brook any criticism of what is increasingly being shown to be a global medical scandal.

Doyle: But this this part of a broader problem in our culture, which is now all sorts of political differences and ideological differences seem to be interpreted as a matter of good versus evil. Stonewall has come down and has been, for whatever reason, perceived as being the goodies, and so everyone who opposes them is perceived as being the baddies. It's very simplistic, like a Disney view of the world where there are heroes and villains. But actually, of course, if you're going to talk about goodies and baddies, I would say the people who don't want to medicalize gay kids are probably on the good side.

Kavanagh: Well, I would be with you on that. I think that's probably the right approach.

Doyle: Are Stonewall dining out on their old reputation? Because they did do a lot of good for gay rights.

Kavanagh: Yeah, absolutely, but I mean, they're in freefall in terms of being taken seriously. The reality is that Stonewall achieved gay marriage primarily through discussion, primarily through having a debate. That all changed in 2015 with the adoption of extreme gender ideology and "no debate." This is a different beast to what it was.

Doyle: Yes, so what can we do about this? How can we raise awareness of it, because a lot of people just don't believe it's happening, a lot of people haven't read the Cass Review, a lot of people don't understand the implications on gay people, and they don't understand that when you promote gender identity ideology in this way that we are actually taking gay rights backwards. They think it's a nonsense, because they are so used to hearing about LGBT, that this is one whole thing, one happy family. So how do we change that narrative?

Kavanagh: What we've got to do is change the discourse and this week has been a powerful step forward in doing that. Kemi Badenoch said the sorts of things -- and so did Neil Hanvey and Jo Cherry in the chamber of the commons that would have got them banned from social media three years ago. That came off the back of Neil Hanvey MP saying in Westminster Hall, there are fears about transing the gay away. The next day there was a constructive and brilliant debate in the House of Lords led by Baroness Jenkin, in which I particularly noted one peer very movingly speaking about the plight of autistic children who, obviously I'm here for gay rights, autistic children are often forgotten in this as well.

Doyle: Because they are disproportionately represented in those who go to the Tavistock, who have symptoms of gender dysphoria.

Kavanagh: 35%, Andrew, 35% of the patient cohort compared to 2% in the general population. So, I think the answer to your question is, we've got to keep spreading the word, we've got to keep changing the discourse, and what happened in the commons, Kemi Badenoch in particular saying the unsayable, but people across the House doing that. That changes the discourse. That gives people the power to speak about this and the strength to speak about it. And we should speak about this. These are deeply, deeply, deeply vulnerable children.

2018, Dr David Bell reported instances of homophobic parents bringing children to the Tavistock to put them on puberty blockers to effectively trans away the gay. We have to have this conversation. Puberty is a human right, and it is a gay right to grow up free from surgery. And in 2023, being gay shouldn't be a medical problem.

Doyle: Excellent, thank you so much for joining me, Dennis Kavanagh.

"No debate" and "I feel unsafe" are charges of blasphemy. We don't entertain accusations of blasphemy. We laugh at those who mount such claims, and notice that they only do so because their ideas don't stand up to scrutiny; if they did, they wouldn't have to resort to defending them with feelings.

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