#He wasn't just a hero to his people in totk he was that and MORE to them in OoT.

[curseofpower]

"It'd be super interesting to hear these counterarguments 👀."

@goopi-e Well let's see… where should I start? The mass assumption that Ganondorf just sort of left his kingdom for dead and stayed holed up in Hyrule Castle for seven entire years, (lolwut???) no longer caring about his fellow gerudos or even letting them know what the hell was going on?

Or something else? Maybe something a little dicier? Like the existence of gibdos? Or the fact he didn't save Nabooru after his moms decided her punishment? ... That last one might be a little self explanatory, though, if you understand his mindset.

Ganondorf is a man with a very strong sense of justice and a very skewed sense of morality. I think it's actually because he cared that he'd ever punish or let his people be punished like she was. Twinrova were his mothers too, so, it's likely he trusted their judgement more than anyone else's. A lower ranking pair of gerudo might not have gotten away with dealing justice in his name like that.

But I digress. I know I have to be missing something. I'm just very tired today and have a lot on my mind. Do feel free to let me know, though, if any of that interests you or if there's another thing I forgot to address that you want me to go into.

[gay-jesus-probably]

Let me just preface this by saying everyone is allowed to have their own opinions, TOTK is a really fun game, and I'm glad that other people have been able to enjoy the story as well.

...But I'm being dead serious with my complaints about the narrative being 100% imperialist propaganda. And I'm getting really tired of people replying to those posts by saying it can't be imperialist propaganda, because imperialism is bad and the game says that Hyrule is the good guys.

Like, guys. That's not the argument you think it is. Yes, I am aware that the game tells us Ganondorf is a flat, one dimensional character with no ambitions, interests or motivations beyond destroying the entire world for the hell of it, and also it's totally not racist because he's green, not brown like literally every other member of his race. Unfortunately literally all of these things are kind of the entire goddamn problem.

See, the thing is, everyone trying to make these arguments is accepting the game at face value. Hyrule is the perfect and almighty nation chosen by the demigod Zonai, and whose royal family has the right to rule due to their divine heritage. The other races exist to serve the glory of Hyrule, and they're happy to do it. Ganondorf is pure evil and must be stopped at any costs.

But that's not how anything works. The story informing me that Hyrule is the ultimate good that has done nothing wrong is the whole goddamn reason why I don't trust Hyrule at all. There's always more of a reason than that. And the game fucking suggests there was more going on! Ganondorf mentions Rauru has repeatedly 'invited' the Gerudo to become Rauru's subjects, and let's be clear here, it doesn't matter how peaceful those 'invitations' were, when the guy who owns every single magical nuclear missile in the world repeatedly demands you surrender to him, there's always going to be an implied threat of 'do it or get magically nuked'. Just that power difference alone shows us exactly why Ganon would feel threatened enough to invade. It's because Rauru was holding a gun to his head, and Ganon was expected to just trust that he'd never pull the trigger.

And yes, even if it wasn't intentional Hyrule was always threatening to wipe out the other nations, considering the entire royal family walked around openly wearing their magical nukes as cute accessories. If they couldn't be safely hidden away, there wouldn't be four other secret stones sitting untouched in a vault until the last second.

But that's never acknowledged. Of course Hyrule is the only nation with the right to the secret stones; even if other races get to touch them, they can only have them if they swear eternal blind loyalty and servitude to the glory of King Rauru and Princess Zelda. Ganon wanting to have one magical nuclear bomb out of a stockpile of eight of them is proof that he's dangerous and evil. I mean my god, what if he just walked around all day wearing a magical nuke and using its power for his own benefit, that would be terrifying. It's only okay when Hylian royalty does it.

And you can't argue that Ganon betrayed his own people, considering we don't get to know fucking anything about his relationship with his people. He's shows as the leader of the Gerudo, we're told he's a hero to his people, he has soldiers that loyally follow him into battle... and then oh nevermind, they all hate him and will spend eternity trying to atone for sharing a race with him. How did the entire race do a complete 180 in the span of at most a few months? Who cares, what's important is that now they accept they exist to serve Hyrule so they get to be the good guys now and we don't need to know why they were following Ganondorf, or why they stopped following him.

Basically my point is that yeah, I fucking know how the game insists everything went down. That's the entire reason I think it's imperialist propaganda, because the entire story feels like Hylian propaganda to conceal and justify some horrific atrocities that caused all of this. I literally do not believe that I'm getting the story through reliable narrators, especially considering that the only people allowed to actually tell me the story are all the characters that have the most reasons to be heavily biased in favour of Hyrule.

When the game shows me protagonists that have a massive amount of power and control over the entire world, then says the bad guy doesn't like that system just because he's evil, and literally nothing and nobody in the game says anything to oppose that take, I have some questions about what the fuck the story isn't telling me. And I'd really appreciate it if people would stop trying to argue with me just by telling me to stop asking those questions.

[gloriousmonsters]

seriously just. nothing gets me fuming about the sheer... uninventive cowardice of ToTK's storyline than thinking about how despite their flaws, the OoT/TP/WW trio were all about complicating Ganondorf in an interesting way. OoT was like ok, this guy is fucked up but he's cool, he's a hero to a lot of his people and oh yeah, the band of thieves you've heard of is actually a tribe of people, his people, and if you look you can see how a world like this made a man like him. WW was like and maybe he's more human than you thought. maybe he was a little in love with the land he conquered. maybe if he lived longer, he'd be capable of regret, of some amount of self-reflection, of showing mercy to the enemies he swore to destroy in the past. TP was like and what if stopping him before he conquered Hyrule wasn't the happy ending? what if it made everything worse? what if we've done bad things, and Ganondorf's return is part of our actions coming back to haunt us, his execution wound impossible to ignore, the sword he wields the one meant to kill a monster, one that failed when the gods seemingly signaled they weren't totally on our side? and, both of them agree on, his death isn't a joyful triumph. It's sobering, unnerving, tragic.

then totk's like. well what if he was... an evil guy. just a VERY evil guy. because he's evil. and mean. what if we retold OoT but worse and more simplistic and also the power Ganondorf takes isn't divine so we dodge all those awkward questions about if he's really Basically The Devil or if he has a more complicated part in the whole. and, hear us out, what if he was evil and wanted to bring... DARKNESS. because he's bad

[lightningbreath]

I want to make it clear from the outset that having headcanons or theories is not a problem. Getting frustrated when they don't come true is not a problem either. But it is when people treat these headcanons as if Nintendo had an obligation to fulfill them.

I find it genuinely funny how some fans got so deep into their headcanons to the point of getting angry at the existence of Yona (poor girl) and the fact that Sidon is in a straight relationship, but that doesn't surprise me coming from people who claim to fight against stereotypes but are the ones who live and propagate stereotypes the most (the amount that most of the queer people I've met have been bugging me about being bisexual and aromantic is unbelievable).

I mean, as if canon would stop fujoshis from turning all the men in a series gay, no matter their sexuality, way of behaving or if they're in a relationship or not, so I don't understand why they say that Nintendo "removed the queer coding" when this was just a hc, Nintendo never implied that Sidon was queer, if they had said something like "a Zelda character will be queer" I could even understand, but that wasn't the case.

Now, in my opinion, the way Sidon talks and treats Link reminds me a lot of how my sister acts with the BTS boys, I think Sidon has a very idealized vision of Link, he talks about Link as if he were his favorite Marvel superhero and if we take into account that Link doesn't even seem to have frequented the Zora Region much during the time between Botw and Totk and that his ring doesn't even go on his ring finger.... anyway, it was cool to see Sidon's maturity, although his behavior is adorable, he's not a baby anymore.

I admit that Yona's introduction came out of nowhere, but honestly, TOTK introduces and disappears characters out of nowhere, Kass simply disappeared from the map, NPCs forgot about Link and the whole story of Sonia and Rauru also came out of absolutely nowhere. If Yona was the only one in this situation I would give her the benefit of the doubt, but that's not the case.

Not to mention that for a game ""with a hetero code"" I wonder why Nintendo didn't confirm right away that Link and Zelda are a couple instead of just saying this, I swear, how hard is it to formalize them? People will complain about anything, but no, Nintendo is afraid of I don't know what.

I will never forgive Nintendo for taking away the possibility of Zelda being a companion in the adventure or at least having a more constant presence. Thanks to that, I am living off of fanfics and fanarts.

P. S.: I wonder, if we ever get a remake of OoT, if Nintendo gives Malon a husband or canonizes OoT Zelink, how the fandom will react to that?

P. S. S.: Also, since people still complain to this day that TotK didn't turn Ganondorf into a "uwu boy who's just a poor victim of circumstances", a theory fueled by the appearance that the 10,000-year-old Hero had on the tapestry is because Ganondorf is a sexy man.

Although, on this last point I have to be honest, I was disappointed with the fact that Nintendo basically threw away the cinematics from the first TotK trailer and basically ignored the Sheikah technology, everything that Botw had hinted about the Zonai and the whole story of the Calamity from 10,000 years before Botw.

Anyway, it's just a question of how this fandom takes headcanons as if they were an absolute truth, and this ends up causing unnecessary fights because no one wants to admit that their hc may be unlikely to happen.

But that's just my opinion. Thank you for reading.

[evergreenalice]

having finally beaten ToTK awhile ago, I feel I can give some thoughts, I have many, but I'll focus on the story right now

my main feeling towards the game is frustration

this game had some of the best scenes in any Zelda game, full stop

Ganondorf's unsealing, fucking banger

the dragon scene? fucking AMAZING

drawing the master sword high up above the clouds? Beautiful

"Remember this name" as the main theme plays in the background, FUCK man

and that was possibly the coolest final boss of any video game I've ever played

but everything else is just... meh

and it's really frustrating, I feel like if given more time to cook, they could've made something really fucking cool

the story was really disorganized, and frankly, I got tired hearing the same thing 4 times, not skipping any of the sage cutscenes in hopes something, ANYTHING, would be different, but they weren't, I was fed the same thing four times!

and ultimately... I wasn't that invested in the story

some say that Zelda has always had bad stories, and this is just false

Zelda has always had relatively simple stories

but I was invested in stopping Ganon in OoT, I saw his impact on the world, and I saw how it impacted characters I'd grown to love!

I was really invested in the story of Link's Awakening, I didn't want the island to disappear, but it had to as sad it was

I think I cried the first time I beat LA as a child

but... here? Meh, I didn't feel the stakes, they were certainly there, but I mean, when it came to viewing the past, I cared about Zelda I guess, I like her, and I mean, the really fucking good scenes in the past are centered around her

I somewhat cared about Rauru and Sonia, but I mean, that was several millennia ago, I don't mourn dead people from the 2nd century much, of course they're dead, it was long ago, perhaps their death was tragic in some way, but, I don't feel that upset at it

and for the ancient sages... not even the writers cared about them! They don't even have names! WE DON'T EVEN SEE THEIR FACES!

and in the end, the most powerful part of the story, a beautiful scene of sacrifice... was just undone

and I'm not saying that Zelda shouldn't have been saved

BUT

let there be consequences

say that perhaps, she is very negatively impacted by her experience, it may take years for her to get over what has transpired. Which isn't impossible, and is still a hopeful note... but there were consequences, ones that will be overcome with great effort, and community, and support

but instead we are left with Zelda as she was... prior to her sacrifice, she doesn't remember it

I'm not saying happy endings are bad, but, a happy ending out of nowhere with no consequences? I don't like that

I grew up playing Zelda, and often these games had a sense of melancholy to them

Link saved the wind fish... and in the process lost that entire island of people, and Marin in particular

Link sealed away Ganondorf, and went back in time to warn the kingdom, and live out his childhood that was stolen to him... but he knows he's not a Kokiri, his identity was false, and he fundamentally, as Saria said, is of a different world from her, there is an innate barrier that will only grow between him and his former home, and in the end he will eventually become the Hero's Shade

Breath of the Wild did this well, it is a game about the aftermath of your failure, Zelda and Link have both lost their past, they can't return to it, they've failed, and time only moves forward, and they do

in all of these cases, it's not entirely negative, there is hope, there is a future

but there's also melancholy, there is loss, and I think that's something that ToTK just couldn't do

[tirsynni]

If we're asking about BotW/TotK ships, any thoughts on Revalink? Asking mostly just because it has been living in my head rent-free for months and I constantly desire more people to talk about it.

Anonymous asked:

Sorry for asking about your opinion on Revalink without even checking to see that you had already written Revalink fics, feel free to ignore previous ask

Oh, honey. I am always happy to talk about Revalink. They are absolutely my BotW/TotK OTP. I also adore Revali and I hungrily devoured even the slightest mention of him in TotK and have multiple WIPs scribbled on my laptop finding out ways to have him actually in TotK.

(Do I still feel a little cheated? Maybe. I wasn't expecting much, but ow, TotK.)

This ship has an insane amount of potential, especially since we have so few of Link's memories available in BotW. Maybe it was always just brutal tension between two fucked up young Champions with far too much weight on their shoulders (with most of it being self-imposed!). Maybe they quietly figured out something, just for Link to forget or maybe he didn't even forget but it didn't matter because the Link of then and the Link of now are so different. Ack! So much potential!

...but anyway.

Pre-Calamity, these two had so much weight dragging them down and not a single positive communication skill in sight. Link was buried under the title of Champion and Hero to the point he could barely see the sky anymore. Revali pushed and pushed and pushed himself to the point of collapse. He was absolutely driven and stubborn and passionate and snarky and desperate for validation. Link was silently begging for everyone to not look at him and Revali was silently begging for someone to fucking see him.

Specifically, he wanted Link to see him.

That's what absolutely kills me about that pairing. We don't know what Link saw or thought. We got everyone's journal but his. Hell, even his memories seemed like they were from an outsider's perspective (especially the last one). But we got Revali's journal and we got to hear Revali speak (and snark and yell) and so it baffles me when people paint him as an asshole who hated Link.

Doubtlessly, Revali would have pushed himself forever without external validation, but it didn't change the fact that he was thirsty for it. Where do we see it most? In his interactions with Link. In his journal talking about Link. It was a constant chant of "See me, see me." Link was strong and skilled and we saw in his limited memories that he pushed himself, too. While Zelda quietly mused in a safe, dry spot, Link stood in the rain and continued to practice with his sword. He threw himself at hordes of monsters and Zelda scolded him for being reckless. For their own reasons, Revali and Link actively pushed themselves arguably long after almost anyone else would have stopped, and I think Revali saw that in Link -- saw a possible peer who valued hard work and sweat and determination -- and desperately wanted Link to see him, too.

When they reunited one hundred years later, for all of Revali's snark about Link making him wait, nothing can convince me that Revali wasn't happy to see him again. We won't know what happened in those final days before the Calamity or what Revali knew about Link during those hundred years, but the fact that Revali specifically told Link to avenge him will forever be telling to me. Revali -- fiercely independent, determined Revali -- recognized that he couldn't avenge his own death. He also didn't expect the fight to be impersonal for Link, for it to be another thing for Link to check off in his quest. He didn't want Link to kill the Blight on his behalf: he wanted Link to do what he couldn't, he wanted Link to treat the fight as something personal, he wanted Link to fight in Revali's name. He wanted Link to avenge him.

(And in return, he gave Link wings and personally lifted him into the sky. <3 With an adorable little flourish.)

I also love the dialogue choices during the fight, and they are part of my argument for why Revali isn't hateful: he's snappy and snarky and is absolutely the guy who shows he cares about by calling his love interest an idiot for failing to appropriately care for himself. He spends that entire fight scolding Link and cheering Link on and snarking at Link and fretting over Link, depending on how the fight goes. He gets so worried for Link. Not because Revali won't be avenged but because Link is hurt and he checks to see if he is okay. ;_;

On Link's half? If Revali is the bird who is desperate to fly as high as he can, Link is absolutely the trapped, muzzled songbird. There's one scene where the king is scolding Zelda and Link is kneeling beside Zelda, absolutely forgotten by both of them. He's pretty much part of the scenery in that memory. His head is bowed. His face is expressionless. He's disregarded butterly as the king berates Zelda and Zelda focuses on vainly defending herself. That exemplifies so much of his backstory: he's the silent Knight. He's the Wielder of Evil's Bane. He's the guy who effortlessly claimed his destiny by pulling the Master Sword while Zelda struggled fruitlessly to call upon her sacred powers. I would argue (and this isn't a slight against Zelda, who is clearly a traumatized, overburdened, and royal teenager in all of these memories) that when Zelda finally sees Link as an actual person and not just another symbol of her failure, she still struggles to see him as a true individual and not another way for her to deal with and understand her own problems. For most of the characters in those memories, Link is characterized by his role and his duty, not as an actual overburdened teenager himself.

Except Revali, who never shows any indication that he gives a damn about titles and destiny and all of that bullshit, sees Link and wants Link to see him. Revali wants a response. Revali wants Link.

I've also written briefly about this before, but in regards to symbolism, Revali is also the closest in-game parallel to things normally associated with the Heroes of Courage. Courage is Farore green, courage is Farore's Wind. In Skyward Sword, Link rides upon his loftwing, a sacred creature which connects the Hylians to the Goddess. In Wind Waker, well, do I need to say it? The other Champions fit well with Din/Power (Urbosa and Daruk) and Nayru/Wisdom (Zelda and Mipha). Revali? Fits great with Farore/Courage. Revali, who pushes Link and gets so pissed (and hurt) when Link doesn't push back. Revali, who tells Link to watch him as he flies and grows so upset when Link doesn't react to that magical moment at all.

To leave the Great Plateau and begin his journey, Link needs to take a leap of faith and glide through the sky. Link needs the wind. Link needs to fly.

I could keep going for a while, but I think I should stop. lol I've written plenty of meta about these two before, though, so feel free to check out my Revalink tag. Always feel free to ask about these two (and fandom and such in general). I love rambling about them and people IRL tend to look at me like I'm crazy when I begin talking about this stuff. :D

[golvio]

So I've got...some complicated feelings about this. Some of them more analytical, some of them more personal. I get pretty long-winded when I think out loud about this guy, so I'm putting my thoughts behind a cut.

On the one hand, I definitely noticed that TotK's Ganondorf was more preoccupied with his appearance, not necessarily in a stereotypical "vain villain who never shuts up about how beautiful they are" or a "gym bro who spends more time checking himself out in the mirror than actually working out" sense, but in a "he's very conscious about the image he projects and wants to maintain careful control of how other people see him at all times" way. I'm glad I've got confirmation that I wasn't just seeing things. Also, that TotK discusses how he uses attractiveness to manipulate people, as implied with how he portrayed "Princess Zelda," had some really interesting implications about his life as the Gerudo king and his personality and skills in reading people that Nintendo never followed up on, because god forbid we give this character any recognizable traits that could inspire curiosity about who he is as a person or discussions about gender roles in ways that aren't "He pretends to be a cute little white girl because he's an Evil Degenerate."

On the other hand...it kind of contributes to the way I've been weirded out by how the game itself treated him and how certain fans treat him. The game itself made a lot of effort to dehumanize and un-person this man as a character even while making his human form visually appealing. The fans themselves are celebrating this a validation of their seeing him as a sex symbol, calling him "a bi icon" because both men and women are attracted to him, etc.

Like...there's all this discussion about Ganon's appearance and how sexy people find him, but not much consideration of what *he* might want, or how he feels, or what he's attracted to. I know that's kind of a goofy question to ask about a fictional character who can't really have opinions on things beyond what the writers give him, but...it's just kind of...objectifying?

For example, I don't take any issue with headcanons that Ganon might be bisexual, or at least enjoys the attention he gets from people of any gender, since I've got my own headcanons about him being queer, but I do get weirded out by the assumption that just because both men and women find him attractive that means he *must* reciprocate their desires and be bisexual. It's the same thing that weirds me out about fan art pre-release that portrayed him as this airheaded himbo jock because fans wanted to ogle his sexy body without having to deal with his intelligence, his anger, his negative qualities, or his potential dangerousness.

There's this tendency to objectify him in both the game, whether as a "monster" to slay to prove the player/Link's mettle as a hero, or as a trophy to symbolize Rauru's dominon over the frontier territories of his kingdom. And then there's a tendency to objectify him in fandom, presenting him as a pinup devoid of his original personality, or trying to shape him into a "good Ganondorf" that the fans would actually like to be friends with by sanding off all his sharp edges so they can access his body, which they find beautiful, without having to deal with the parts that might complicate that or that they'd dislike.

Fandom as a whole seems to have a blind spot when it comes to the objectification of masculine characters, particularly because it's like, "Oh, BOYS can't be objectified! Only pretty (white) ladies can get objectified!" Nevermind that objectification is a phenomenon that's super commonly done to nonwhite men in tandem with the more overt and violent dehumanization that comes with racism, especially men with darker skin. And there doesn't seem to be much of an interest in exploring what that might mean for Ganondorf as a character, whether just as discussing double-consciousnesses and exploiting expectations to manipulate people, or to explore how being treated like a piece of meat or a pretty ornament who exists only for other people's pleasure can really warp a person.

I guess...this is something I've been thinking about since playing Slay the Princess, which asks a lot of questions about objectification, how people's complexity can be dismissed and ignored when they're shoved into the Love Interest archetype, and how being limited in this way in the eyes of others can seriously hurt and warp someone even if it's being done in the "nicest," most paternalistic and "benevolent" way possible. It presents the core relationship as being a fundamentally unequal power balance; no matter how fearsome and terrifying the imprisoned party becomes, she is always at your mercy, she lives and dies based on the choices you make, and the "nicer" routes are potentially just her saying what she knows you want to hear and auditioning for your sympathy because like it or not you're her warden. It also forces you to ask yourself what makes you come to love somebody, and to consider the possibility of loving somebody while also acknowledging their thorny, messy, contradictory, and dangerous parts. I wish I could see more works considering this for Ganon, as opposed to regurgitating tired old "Destroy This Mad Brute" tropes or turning him into a "safe," palatable, easy-to-digest love interest.

[caylinmiraki]

My relationship with The Legend of Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom

I love TotK, I really do. It's fun to play and to explore for a while. But that's it. I kinda have a toxic relationship with this game. It gives me the highest heights just to shove some pretty unnecessary hindrance in my face.

tl;dr: Erasing BotW from TotK was the worst thing they could've done to this game. It's hard to believe that this game's got 5 years of development under its belt. It truly is a disappointing Masterpiece.

I’m just going to head right in.

I absolutely adore a well-written story and exploring new Lands to see what kind of secrets it holds. and am someone who really can't deal with spoilers of any kind, so color me surprised when the second memory I encountered was the one near Lurelin Village where it's exposed that we got a fake Zelda. It felt great to have my theory proven right because I’ve cleared a few Stable Quests before looking for the Tears and figured it out (isn’t very difficult I know). But when I realized that I’d skipped a massive part of this story I was disappointed because I expected a story progression like Botw but ended up spoiling myself with one of the most impactful memories. At the same time, it was so frustrating to see everyone dance on the palm of this impostor's hand while the player knows exactly what's going on and you/Link couldn't do anything about it.

The fact that almost no one recognized Link or even knew of him was also so frustrating; infuriating even. This legendary Hero saved Hyrule along with Princess Zelda in a 100-year-long battle, only to be forgotten? While everyone knows of Zelda? Like, you wanna tell me that the whole time Zelda traveled the lands of Hyrule to learn about the people and forge connections, Link wasn't with her? Her appointed knight that never leaves her side?

I know they chose to basically erase him to make the story less complicated for people who didn't play BotW, but let's be honest the amount of players that fit this criteria can't be more than 5%, and that's thinking generously, so why ruin the experience for the other 95%? Besides a small part of the Zora, the Stableowners, the people at Lookoutlanding, some Shieka, and the Yiga-Clan no one knows about him. In addition to that we also only get two mentions of the champions from botw. Mipha is referenced and I think Daruk gets a mention as well. When I entered Zoras Domain in TotK and saw that they had replaced Miphas Statue with a statue of Link and Sidon (which I find hideous tbh) I was so fucking furious. I adore her and they just pushed her onto some faraway cliff to collect dust. I think Daruk gets referenced in a dialog with Yunobo but that’s it, besides his statue in Goron City. Urbosa and RevalI have been completely forgotten it appears. They could have at least referenced those two regarding their successors having similar powers.

However, I have to say that Gerudo Desert was one of the best areas in TotK with a nice twist to the Questline leading up to the Dungeon. The Desert is being plagued by weird undead monsters and shrouded in a never-ending sandstorm. Gerudo Town is desolated and abandoned and you worry for its citizens. I loved this dreadful approach on the Demon Kings homeland. There are just two things I can't agree with in this new Gerudo Desert.

First, they don't kick Link out of Gerudo Town after the situation is resolved. This clan of proud warriors that cling deeply to their roots and traditions, just let Link walk in and out of Gerudo Town as he likes. It apparently isn't that much of a deal anymore if young VaI were to see a Voi, and saving their Town for the second time after defeating Va Naboris, returning peace to Gerudo Desert, and retrieving their heirloom was now enough to allow him to enter without a disguise? Oh yes, I forgot BotW didn't happen apparently. Secondly, I want female Gerudo clothes for Link. Why would you rob us of this experience? I also strongly feel like they designed the areas in this order Rito>Gerudo>Gorons>Zora it just gets less and less refined throughout the game. I first encountered the Wind Temple and then went to the Water Temple afterward. I felt like I've skydived full speed from the sky islands straight into the depths without a paraglider. Moktoroc was a Boss I'd expect in a meme fight or mod or something, but a fully-fledged dungeon boss..?

Talking about bosses, something I really enjoyed in TotK were the encounters with Master Khoga. He is such a delight to encounter in this game; truly the most polished and lovable character in all of TotK (and BotW in my opinion). He has his purpose, he is silly, sometimes overly so, but all in all, is he a real threat to the inhabitants of Hyrule and Link. For real, Master Khoga and his Clan always recognize Link and engage with him BECAUSE he is Link and not because he just happened to be there. When I encountered Master Khoga for the first time in the depths I was so excited because I remembered that he fell down this chasm in BotW and that the most iconic and best villain in BotW is still alive. I really was just so delighted I think I almost cried (I'm a huge fangirl, leave me alone). He and the Yiga Clan made the Depths their own in the time that passed between those two games. The only thing I would have wished for was that Master Khogas questline could have been a bit longer and that he shouldn't have ended up like in BotW. And what I would have liked was to have one huge Yiga-Clan structure that served as their home base in the depths, like the Yiga Hideout on the surface.

There are just three more things I want to mention that don't sit well with me in this game.

First: the Depths are empty. I want to make each Zelda game my own and play it at least once to 100% in any regard. All Locations, all Shrines, all Lightroots, all chests, all quests, all Koroks (urgh), and so on. I want to harvest everything this game has to offer. But when I was "exploring" the depths in my progressed savestate I just found myself comparing the overworld to the depths to find shrines or lightroots. I traveled from one destination to another just to complete my task and gaining every shrine in the process was a nice addition. Tbh, I don't even know what the reward was for clearing all Shrines. I remember you got some kind of seed or flower from the lightroots tho.

The depths are incredibly dull. What happens in the depths?

1. You get the Autobuild ability

2. Fire Temple (Great design choice btw, very esthetic tho not challenging)

3. Minerus questline

4. Master Khoga and the Yiga-Clan

5. Weird Poe trading Statues (idk if this should count tbh)

6. Lost Woods access

7. Demon King Ganondorf (Daddy)

So we've got 6-7 major events in the depths. An area as big as Hyrule itself filled with almost nothing. You encounter abandoned Mines that always work the same. Search for the chest, pick up some Zonaite, and off you go. Yiga-Clan outposts; kill the Yiga, read the journal, loot the chests, and next. And don't get me started on the recycled dungeon bosses you can now just kill for fun down there. WHY?? I hate when bosses, incredibly strong monsters that are tied to a location as its last obstacle, as its guardian to prevent the Hero from accomplishing his goal, just get reused as an overworld boss. Tho they're so easy to kill a Gleeok is more dangerous. Now that I think about it King Gleeok might just be the most challenging Boss in TotK.

The second thing I would have wished for, but knew it would not happen was for Link to permanently lose his arm and for Zelda to remain a Dragon. I knew it wouldn't happen because Zelda always has a happy ending but it would have solidified TotK as another huge break in the tloz formula. Link losing his arm would have shown just how incredibly dangerous this whole situation really was, even to the Hero of the Wild. A crippled Hero with lost limbs and remains scarred for life (like the theories for the Heros Shade from Twilight Princess) is something Zelda lacks and just solidifies that Link is fucking overpowered and nothing can stop him. Don't get me wrong, I know it's kinda his thing to just be like this and to make the player feel accomplished in saving the land of Hyrule and its Princess, but we’re in the 2020s, and people want some kind of realism, drama, and especially in this case, involvement in the story. The way things are, it just feels like a fever dream sometimes. Might be an unpopular opinion but I'd like to see Link struggle for once in a while. (I know, botw’s basically a summary of Zelda and Links’ struggle to save Hyrule, but that’s not my point here and you know it.)

I know the chances of Zelda remaining a Dragon forever were close to nonexistent, and I think I wouldn't have a problem with this, if the developer had just given us a real explanation as to why, and how this is even possible. Mineru emphasized multiple times, that this forbidden ritual is irreversible and that she would erase herself if she were to proceed. Her decision has such a massive impact on the Story. Zelda went to such lengths to protect her Kingdom and support Link, she gave up everything and she was so terrified but her trust in Link is just so great that she believes that he will at least save Hyrule; her kingdom when she can only provide him with the tool to do so. Only to be reversed because two ghosts appeared. The theory that Sonia and Rauru channeled their energy through Link to reverse Zeldas form like Mineru said is just that, a theory. But aside from Raurus power and spirit residing with Link in his arm, where did Sonia come from? When the imprisoning war happened Sonia was long gone and there were no hints of her spirit being connected to Link or Zelda. It just feels unpolished and the explanation of "magic" isn't satisfying at all.

Lastly, something that bothers me in particular, I don't think many miss this feature. I am a huge fan of the Dark Souls series and challenging games in general. So my disappointment, when I learned that there wasn't a Master Mode for TotK, and there are no plans to implement one in the future, was immense. I would have loved to play through this game with a more challenging note and 100% it that way. I’m really sad about this, would have loved to see improved golden monsters that would have destroyed me and tested my skill.

To end this rant on a positive note, TotK is still one of the best games I've played. Its mechanics and freedom of action are one in a kind and I could spend hours just playing around with ZonaI devices and build the most ridiculous builds. It has really well-thought-out Quests and fun characters to interact with. Link and Zeldas relationship (as an aromantic myself) just feels so fulfilling. I know many people see their relationship and their dependency on each other as signs of a canon love story between these two, and by all means, go for it (that Zelda lives in Links house now is evidence enough. And I ship them occasionally myself)! But for me, the fact that it isn't explicitly said leaves room for interpretation, and, they are just two people who can 100% trust each other and whose lives are so incredibly intertwined that they are just codependent at this point. I love how they've written Zelda and Links relationship.

And my highlight, of course, is Ganondorf and the final boss fight. I adore Ganondorf his design is so incredibly well done, you feel his ambitions and dominance throughout every "encounter" we witness. Though we don't know those ambitions and anything about him besides that he wants to restore the rule of "the survival of the fittest", to be honest. He is pure fanservice I tell you. And I live for this.

The final fight is a (almost) one one-on-one with the Demon King(Just like Twilight Princess, one of the most epic showdowns of all time). An excellent magician who mastered all forms of weaponry just like Link and is even capable of flurry rushing (an ability that many/I thought was Links champion ability in BotW). It's epic, it's cinematic, and filled with surprises. When I fought Ganondorf in the first half, I just assumed we got two phases, and that's it, like in Botw. But holy shit. The second phase started and his health bar just kept going and he looks like THAT with his cocky attitude; brother. The moment you defeat him, and think it's over, you realize what he's about to do but before you can act he just grabs Link, and smashes him through tons of stone, and debris (however he came out of this unscathed; would have loved if he got at least a little injured and then healed by the light dragon or something.) and suddenly you are in the skies facing off against this massive titan of a Dragon. This fight is as challenging as the Dark Beast Ganon fight in BotW but its buildup and the resulting fight high above the surface with the help of Zelda who subconsciously knows it's her destiny to support Link in this fight makes it way better than just a cinematic final showdown. Link manages to defeat the Demon Dragon and after he blows up like a nuke (wtf was that anyway, so awesome!) and Zelda is transformed back to her human form. Link is skydiving to catch Zelda as they plummet from the sky and the moment, he finally reaches her hand and catches her will be forever one of the most emotional and impactful scenes in any Zelda game. Despite its flaws, TotK offers an undeniably captivating experience. With its innovative mechanics, memorable moments, and interesting characters, it carved its own niche within the Zelda universe. While it does leave me a bit disappointed that it ended up like it did, expectations for Zelda Games are always skyrocketing but I still don’t think that we expected too much. I rate this a solid 8.5/10 while every other Zelda entrance is a 10/10.

I love TotK but like I said. It's a toxic relationship and whenever I find myself wanting to revisit this Hyrule I rather play BotW than TotK. Sorry for my rant.

[cheshire-writer]

Did anyone ever think about this: botw/totk x Legend of Arceus? It goes maybe like this:

Arceus: Oh no, I've got this slightly disillusionised, scheming, angsty drama queen teaming up with this slightly more minor diety than me and they may or may not end up tearing holes into my creation.

Arceus: Hylia, my bestie, whatever shall I do?

Arceus: I'm thinking of borrowing a protagonist somewhere and giving them amnesia so that they'll do my bidding...

Hylia: ...

Hylia:... you know what, I've got just the guy for you.

Hylia, mind vibing with Zelda: Descendant, my mortal self, Zelda, my dear, there's this friend of mine who's somewhat in a pinch -

Zelda: You're not borrowing Link.

Hylia: He can keep a version of the purah pad/sheikah slate and the data he records goes to one of your labs.

Zelda: You're still not getting him.

Hylia: That friend of mine lives in an entire different time-space.

Zelda: ...

Hylia: Different plants and creatures and people and magic/technology -

Zelda: Deal!

Zelda, slightly embarrassed: But I've got conditions.

...

Hylia, to Arceus, offering Link: Here, take this, it's dangerous to go alone deal with time-space issue on your own.

Link, in Hisui: ...I'm supposed to let these fluff / cute / weak thingies fight for me?

Link, stick in hand, bunch of wild pokemon defeated at his feet: Why in the name of Hylia would I do that?

(Later, when the pokemon get bigger and stronger and his weapons stay sticks and maybe the occasional Traveler's Sword Weapon/hunting knife/what have you, warms up to using pokemon the way he fights with the Champions)

Link, seeing a Ponyta for the first time, five minutes before burning himself trying to ride it: I'm naming her Spicy.

Meanwhile, back in Hyrule, the science trio having access to Link's inventory: What is this and this AND THIS???

The science trio, serving as the farm area: WHAT ARE THESE THINGS???*delighted* (No, Link is never getting a single pokemon back from them)

Meanwhile, back in Hisui.

Link, seeing flaming horses and sea dragons and walking plants: If Zelda wants some of these for herself/science/to rebuild Hyrule, they better be trained well. *proceeds to teach them come, stay, and let-me-deal-with-this, and, showing them a picture of Zelda, be-good-for-this-person*

Link, watching an Alpha terrorize its surroundings, thinking of the Yiga: These are going to be her new royal bodyguards until I get back.

Hisui gets a culture shock. In the future, it shall be known as the only region where trainers literally fight side by side with their pokemon.

Link gets new recipes, new ingredients, a new region to explore, gets to get Zelda like 100/10-30k+ years worth of birthday presents, gets to help rebuild Hyrule (indirectly), gets to play with new toys, NEW CLOTHES, and doesn't even have a murder cult after his blood. Almost a vacation if the apocalypse wasn't looming, but hey, can't have everything.

(Henceforth, Pokemon inhabit Hyrule, making life significantly easier for the next Hero.)

[rawliverandgoronspice]

New anon. I've been a few reading your thoughts and general posts, and I really agree so strongly to many of them. Some of my biggest pet peeves in the story were really how weirdly disjointed it felt, with missing reasoning and foundation? If I may share my thoughts? I wish they had genuinely focused more on characters besides Zelda, because by the end of the storyline, and having watched all the tears, I was left more confused and empty, and not satisfied at all. Not to be rude to Zelda, but I really stopped caring about her because I was so hyperfocused on wanting to know more about the Zonai, Sonia, the Sages, and Ganondorf... and then nothing, well except two tears, and they gave almost no plot relevance? It was such a pity. The sages? Who? Why? How? Every sage showing the exact same memory with only a tiny bit of their personality sprinkled, but nothing about them as sages made me miffed. Ganondorf felt really like a missed opportunity, I think you, other anon's and everyone has already said it. In my words: Lost potential. I don't even need a big sobstory or anything, a monologue like in WW? Yeah he's angry that the Zonai are wasting their "god like powers" but WHY is he so angry about it? How are the lives of the Gerudo? Why are they split? Even if he was raised to crave power, just getting more of a look at why would have been nice. The Gerudo sage would have been a perfect candidate to get some explanation. (I'd have much preferred that over some of the more slice-of-life Zelda tears tbh.) I know it's called "The legend of ZELDA!" But I always took that to be more along the lines of "This is the legend of Zelda, but we (the player) see the legend from behind the scenes." Zelda being a major player and royalty would obviously be more interesting to in-universe historians, and easier to write down, with Link always just being "The hero clad in green!" But us, as the player, we see what really occurred, how the hero came to be, and that he's not "just a hero" but he's actually just a guy, who then takes up the mantle of hero. I just wasn't too invested in Zelda's story, especially since she's just background noise for a lot of the story. (Idk how to best word it, pardon me.)

Hello, thank you for the ask and sorry for taking so long to reply!!

Yeah, I mean I don't even think that Zelda got much opportunity to be a character either, despite her being the throughline for most of it. I don't feel like I learned anything new about her character that I didn't know from BotW, and some aspects developed in that game were gone entirely. As you said, she does feel like background noise, a witness to other people's story. Her nerdiness is set-up and then never really paid off (despite her and Mineru interacting), she gets no personal interaction with Ganondorf... I actually don't think they ever speak to one another directly, for the whole game????

Just went out to check that out and... Ganondorf says Zelda's name to her once, then Zelda asks him how he knows their name. That's it. That's the entire sum of their conversation in the entire game, and it happens in the first 5 opening minutes. Unless you count fake Zelda, but even then that would only be a single sentence, and honestly I don't think it counts?

The more I dig around and the more I'm truly baffled by some of the narrative choices made in this game. Like I want to be Normal about it again (and managing, slowly, just getting through the last asks) but.... honestly I don't understand what happened. The straight up refusal to build up any kind of actual dramatic tension between the leading trio is so baffling to me. Like, not to dip back into the TotK Rewrite Well, but: why didn't they fully commit to the OoT route, since they were already so far down, where Zelda is the only one to suss out Ganondorf is out to get them, and so the tension is concentrated between the two of them, where she tries to save Rauru and Sonia from his scheme but can't (which would also give weight to her sacrifice as she turns into a dragon)? Then you'd have an actual reason to feel invested in the plot and want to avenge her and those she cared about! Why are the stakes so split out between Rauru, Zelda and Mineru, to the point where nothing has any oomph and you, as Link, feel pretty much uninvolved in the entire situation?

Like, sure the buildup to the final fight was amazing, the soundtrack is sooooo sososo good, the mood and ambiance is probably at its best, the fight itself is a little treat, but. I really felt like I was a Hyrule appointed cop having to walk into the freaky abandoned basement and yelling "sir I've been mandated by the royal family to formally ask you to stop dumping experimental chemicals into the sewers of the kingdom" to the local weirdo squatter in his broken hot tub, and then fighting about it.

But personal investment and stakes really didn't land for me. I was glad to see Ganondorf, tho I would have prefered him telling me anything other than generic anime villain stuff before repeatedly punting my face into the floor. But yeah. The story was disjointed, and it kept me from enjoying the extremely carefully crafted mechanics to their fullest capacity. :(

[bluesdesk]

People. 50.6% of 87 votes are exactly 44 votes. And 49.4% is 43 votes. Tears of the Kingdom lost to Alttp for ONE VOTE

Anyway, I decided to yeet both off the poll! Let the 9th round begin! There are 8 games left, and these are really the best. I still have one game I want to vote but then the choice will be harder!

As I've written many things about totk but I don't want to give unwanted spoilers, this time the rankings are here and my opinions on the games are under the cut!

<< Previous round

The CDIs

Triforce Heroes

Zelda 2

Hyrule Warriors / Legends / Definitive

Cadence of Hyrule

Zelda 1

Four Swords Adventures

Four Swords

Oracle of Seasons/Ages

Age of Calamity

Phantom Hourglass

Link's awakening/LANS

Spirit Tracks

Tears of the Kingdom

A link to the Past

Soo! TotK and AlttP. I played AlttP shortly after BotW on nso, when TotK still wasn't out. I liked it a lot at first, but I have to say I didn't complete it. It was technologically advanced for that time for sure, but I don't think it aged well. The dungeons didn't leave me anything valuable to remember, like other games did, the items weren't equipped easily and the story was too simple and banal.

As for TotK. Oh TotK. I got to play botw another bit before returning it (I had borrowed it from a friend), after quitting alttp. And I still liked it! Then I bought TotK and at the beginning I was extremely surprised, it looked so great. I thought Rauru was the same first sage from OoT and he had a "goat disguise" to not be recognized, like his owl form. Of course I was wrong and then I was so disappointed, i left it almost one year ago and don't have any urge to play it again, I probably will though and give it another chance because something was really good like seeing grown up characters or finding those "Zeldas" or building things or finding amiibo costumes. - the story is great for a standalone game, but for zelda? The zonai make no sense to me and contradicted everything we knew. In the past right after sksw the gerudo weren't known, the zora and rito didn't exist, the gorons weren't on death mountain. They should have made another antagonist and not Ganondorf. Zelda's sacrifice was honestly a so great part, but the ending was awful. - the "dungeons" were copies of each other. And short and banal as heck, and the dialogues after each one were always the same. - People didn't remember Link. Only some of the major characters did but the majority of the npcs didn't know him. And Link didn't have the majority of his clothes. I know the outfits weren't mandatory to get in botw (nothing was mandatory tho) but at least the most known could have been left. The gerudo outfit, the climber set, the hylian set, the luminous stone set! They made up a story for the zora tunic and that's a good thing. - The depths were empty and too dark, even after the light roots were lighted. It was too easy to get lost. - the ultrahand and fuse mechanics are amazing as well as the ascend, but they should have made them mandatory at least for some parts of the game, to give them more spotlight. - I would have loved to have way more sksw references, this isn't a flaw of course but a personal preference! Also I would have loved to have Wolf Link as an ally again, instead of the spirits of the sages. - personal experience: the game crashed after I defeated Ganondorf for the last time. I was about to see the final cutscene when the screen went black and it never played (I saw it on youtube). Everything else on the swotch worked perfectly so it was just the game. Of course it doesn't autosave or let people save the game after entering the zone before the first fight with Ganondorf so I'm back there. I hated it.

[skyloftian-nutcase]

Does Ganondorf ever have moments of just silently hating himself for what he's doing to Shady Son in Hero of Shadow?

Of sometimes just wishing he'd died with them?

Of blaming himself for everything? For the happiness they lost?

It also makes me wonder why he was so hateful of the Zonai & Hyrule as a whole.

Like, I get the "grass is always greener" mental pitfall & the envy, but I can't help but wonder if there was more to it.

The best I can figure with Ganondorf in general is that since he's the "special male Gerudo" born to be king, it kind of Others him from the rest of the Gerudo. They respect his position and all, but he's... different. A man in a society of women. Born a ruler just because of it. It separates him from the group, makes him lonely and egotistical. It's his right to rule. He has to be strong. Living in a society of warriors pushes that even further. And if his mere existence rewards him with ruling over one country, why not more? Why not take what he wants when he gets what he wants with the Gerudo? Hyrule has so much to offer. And the people there aren't warriors, they don't fight for what they want or love, they just sit on their hands and do nothing, they practically deserve to be wiped out and ruled over.

Ganondorf is a lonely and angry guy, is basically what I've concluded. At least based on what I can infer. Perhaps he's seen his people suffer and wants better for them. But no matter what, he always just did things for his own gain - never once have his actions benefitted the Gerudo in any of the games. So he's selfish as heck. And if you were to point that out he'd just be like "why shouldn't I be?" He was told his entire life he was special. Probably hardly anyone ever said no to him.

In TotK, he clearly loves a good challenge and fight. He probably is a really smart dude and wants to be stimulated, both intellectually and physically. Nothing gets the adrenaline going like a good fight, nothing pumps him up and proves his power like beating a difficult opponent. He can respect a good warrior.

So his motivation to invade Hyrule wasn't just about resources and "grass is greener on the other side" kind of vibe, it was a logical conclusion to how he was raised. He's king. He wants to rule. He deserves to rule. Hyrulians are weak. He wants Hyrule. He takes Hyrule.

As for regrets... he definitely regrets how his family broke apart. Because they were the one thing that was absolutely special to him beyond anything else. Because they loved him, not just obeyed or respected him. Because they were uniquely his. Nabooru was stubborn and powerful, a challenge in every way, and she loved to fight as much as he did. They respected the heck out of each other until Gan started the war. Hemisi adored him and admired him. Link looked up to him, and oh how that made all the difference because Gan absolutely loves his daughter to death but to have a boy looking to him for example is a whole other level of validation to Ganondorf.

He doesn't regret his actions, though. Simply that his family didn't follow along. He does sometimes regret having to control Link, but only because he knows it physically hurts him. But he won't stop, because he genuinely thinks this is the best way to keep him safe, from Rauru's knight, from the dangers of the world, but most importantly, from himself.

[shannonsketches]

I also have noticed the similarities between Nabooru and the Gerudo Sage of Lightning. And my goodness, it would make the story so much more FIERY if it really were her. The DRAMA between those two seasoned warriors, those two mature lovers who still have so much passion, who found themselves on opposing sides of the conflict. LIKE COME ON.

This is essentially my vibe with the ship in OoT! But, god, yeah, between the sages participating in actual combat and Gan's physical transformation in TotK, it is such a solid and painful (good) version of the story.

Almost called it an AU. Is it an AU? I guess it is, depending on how you look at the games, haha.

But yeah I am not gonna lie I've had backburner brainrot about it for the last couple weeks.

My current vibe on TotK NabsGan Conflict/Fallout (especially with the thought of the mohawk Gerudo woman also being Nabooru, just at an earlier part of her life) is Nabs does not agree with the Zonai or want to participate in or enable their work -- but after witnessing what the secret stones could do to a herd of Molduga? That's not something she's willing to risk happening to her people, and they simply don't have the kind of power to defend against it. And logically, Rauru is only really asking for a centralized alliance with some egotistical semantics, right? They can negotiate terms, he seems reasonable enough with the other countries.

Gan, however, thinks that's bullshit. He's been at war for so long, he's watched these people waste their shoddy technology in the desert over and over again, and the earlier ones were't subtle about what they wanted from the land. He's also killed a ton of them, enough to be considered a hero to his people, and he knows Rauru wants revenge for it. The egotistical semantics are personal, the invitation is a sleight. They're being held hostage under the illusion of free will, and Gan knows there is only one of two things standing between his people and oblivion: Either complete compliance, or getting one of those stones.

So he lies, and publicly goes with option A while privately pursuing option B. Like my OoT headcanons, Nabs realizes something's Wrong when he's spending so much time in Hyrule. Sonia's death becomes the trigger for her to start working against him, and his radical transformation (both physical and mental) pushes her onto the other team out of necessity, and she convinces other Gerudo to do the same. Rauru's magics were terrifying, and Ganon's are worse. But Rauru was at least pretending to be, if he was not genuinely, willing to negotiate. Ganon is not. The anger and power have combined to create a creature of extremes.

They both just wanted their people to survive and be okay. But Ganondorf as a King was already an intense and dedicated warrior, and now he can't be calmed or reasoned with. He will not stop until he's destroyed his enemy, and now his loyalty seems to lie with the ruined and the damned, so she might as well accept a boon and defend what's left of her world.

Because, look, from her perspective, even if Gan IS only attacking Gerudo colonies that are working with (or even just favorable toward) Hyrule, it's horrific that he would destroy his people at all. And as much as she might have loved to trust him otherwise, he got this way by lying to everyone. So what's to say his favor is authentic, or permanent? There's no way of knowing what this stone will do to him in the long run.

There's also the possibility that he might not even be able to control it well at this point! His destruction, while conscious and intentional, could be a hyper-reactive emotional breach from someone who is usually highly disciplined. He might be overwhelmed by this sudden and unrelenting flow of power. But she can't risk betting that a god-king who is currently setting the entire country on fire will level out at some point.

And even if she wanted to, even if she wanted to believe this wasn't really him or what he wanted, she and the other Gerudo might not be alive to find out. She can't afford to wait and see! None of them can!

So even if it means mines and waste and clunky invasive technology, at least if she agrees to join Rauru, her people might survive this. They might maintain some control over their home. If absolutely nothing else, it's literally all she can do to try and keep them alive.

But Ganon doesn't see it that way. It's betrayal, and she's wrong. But, if it is truly her wish to die fighting for what she believes, then it is his sacred obligation to ensure that she does.

[cloudninetonine]

Please go into detail about your linksona from your latest writing, I would love to know more about them (⁠ʃ⁠ƪ⁠＾⁠3⁠＾⁠）

ID HAPPILY GO INTO DETAIL I LOVE THIS MAN

So, his official title would be The Hero fi the Cyrpt(id) and his name suits him so well because his world is absolute nightmare fuel.

Put together both Majora's Mask horror, Ocarina of Time horror and Twilight Princess horror then times it by 10 and you'd get his nightmare of a timeline.

I've gotten some inspiration from GoT North (never watched it just from short clips,) Beowulf and just plain snowy monster horror.

There was a curse that fell over the land over Ganondrof tried to harness a power that was way too strong for him which turned him into the beast, Ganon (Or as I'd like to call him Tomb) but the curse took over him so there wasn't really much of him left, it also affected some of his monsters which turned them into Bugge, they're stronger and more scarier version of normal monsters (Totk spoiler kinda but think about the malice monsters in the deep) it also infected normal people (Grendels) and turned them into monsters, kind of like a plague and it also brought an almost endless winter. Even with Ganon defeated the curse still lingers, it's lessened and the winters have become less brutal with each year as the curse lovers power but its a really slow process, it being about 10 years after Ganon's defeat.

ENOUGH OF THAT LORE- Crypt's mother got infected by the curse when she was close to giving birth and so he was also slightly affected. Unnaturally tall, inhuman eyes and quite pale (but that's also from like not seeing the full sun for the frustration 15 years of his life) It's become less since the defeat but he's still got the height (he stopped growing and probably would have kept going if he hadn't defeated Ganon.

Heres my handsome man for reference (he's supposed to be dirty blonde but the picrew only had light brown or light blonde :((( )

He's stoic only for the reason that he doesn't know how to speak to people. He was cooped up in the castle with only a selective few to speak with for a little over a decade so he doesn't know what to say and fill in awkward silences.

He's actual got tattoos around his mouth and neck but it's covered by his beard and his usual scarf (it's a spell that helps him control the volume of his voice, especially because the monsters are very sound sensitive)

I've got more but can't think JFJEMDMENE HES MY BIY THO

[thebleedingeffect]

Hey Echo I was wondering if you had any Link headcannons you could talk about. I'm getting back into A Link Between Worlds and am feeling the childhood nostalgia

AUGGGHHHHH I HAVE SO MANY LINK HEADCANONS!! Not sure if you wanted a Link in particular, but I have a ton of headcanons for several different Link's, so I'll just do a bunch for each of them lmao.

totk/botw link:

totk link is so, so incredibly bad at telling people where he's coming and going, so much so that it's developed into a bit of a bad habit. It's one that started after he left the cave and began to gain back his past memories of pre-calamity and the life he had gone through as a royal soldier and guardian to Zelda. Basically, his old life was one strictly watched over and controlled, so nowadays, he kind of doesn't like telling anyone where he's coming and going as it grants him a sense of freedom he's never had before. Doesn't exactly help that he doesn't travel with any companions, so it's very normal for totk link to just disappear for several weeks on end.

Secretly, even though he'll be hard pressed to admit it, he likes not having any companions. He's always been a different sort of breed from any other soldier or fighter around him, even when he was young. He doesn't like traveling with anyone as it sort of feels like they're weighing him down and he can't move/fight as smoothly as he could if he was on his own.

totk link has a BIG independence thing going on, which is not exactly helped by the fact that he's just quick on his feet. It's also a whole other thing as he enjoys not having to perform the whole "perfect knight" to a constant audience. Out there in the wild, he's just him, not a guardian or knight, just him.

Secretly misses the champions, but will never mention it to Sidon, Yunobo, Riju, and Tulin, because he's afraid it'll hurt their feelings. Sometimes, in the heat of battle, he misses the weight of their powers in his chest and the reminder that they're still by his side.

Will never, never admit it, but he was secretly jealous and resentful of Zelda pre-calamity. He had long since been chosen as something special, something apart from his peers and even the already trained knights above him. He was able to go toe to toe with a grown man as a child, he drew the master sword when he was barely a pre-teen, and he trained to become Zelda's knight not long afterwards. In his mind, he always envied how Zelda was deaf to Hylia's call, because it might that she had more freedom than he would ever have. His fate was long since decided for him the moment he heard that strange sound come from the master sword.

Building off the previous bullet point: He envied her because she was able to pursue what truly made her happy, even if it was for a short time. He couldn't voice that the Goddesses' gaze upon him wasn't a comforting weight, that she still had time left. He was always the chosen hero, but she was able to be a princess and daughter before fate inevitably came for her.

Something a bit lighter! He's secretly a big old sucker for fashion and will wear truly non-appropriate battle clothing JUST because it's cute. Looking at the frostbite armor.

Has ate multiple rocks before, willingly. Has also ate straight grass. And narrowly stopped himself from getting a glob of lava. Has in fact ate a bit of gloom and it is one of the few times that he was bed-ridden for days. Proceeded to figure out how gloom-resistance food works.

oot/mm link:

Alright so, this is one of my biggest headcanons, and it has so little canon evidence for it. My sole piece of evidence is the oot manga and the fact that we have absolutely no idea who oot Link's mom was. I say this because this is my biggest oot Link headcanon: he is the younger brother of oot Zelda/Sheik.

Basically, the queen was separated shortly after giving birth to oot Link and fled to the kokori forest as it was one of the extremely few safe places to hide from the Hyrulean War. She was critically injured and knew that she would not survive long enough to flee back to the castle, so she entrusted oot Link to the deku tree before passing away.

Knows how to speak and read hylian, kokori, and gerudo! As when he was thrown out into the world after gaining the kokori emerald, he had to learn the hylian language extremely fast to know just what the hell was going on. Thankfully, he did indeed learn pretty fast and Navi helped a bunch in teaching him as well.

Secretly wishes that Sheik joined him as a companion during his adventure because he truly does like Sheik and feels much safer having someone by his side. He totally isn't extremely lonely and resents the constant distance that Sheik insists on keeping between them. He always keeps an ear out for any sightings of Sheik and chases after any promising leads.

Is actually kind of a sassy asshole... he just has a bit of an attitude, a bite to him. He can and will give you the most unimpressed, straight stare while his hands are on his hips. He has no patience for any of this, but he's still doing it, even though he's not all that happy about it.

Doesn't really start growing up maturity wise until after majoras mask. He's still mostly a kid, and carries a lot of innocence and naivety as a result.

Goes back to oot Zelda/Sheik after the events of majoras mask :]

twilight princess link:

Has issues !! Has issues!! Or aka has the horrible condition called "was forced to grow up very fast and become a big brother figure to the other children around him as he also shared the weight of the whole parenting thing."

It's hard for him to fight for himself or consider himself first as he's been caring for others since he can remember. Everything from the Ordon kids, to becoming a staple figure of the village, to handling whatever responsibilities thrown at him, have led him to constantly serving others.

He wont admit it, as he feels extremely guilty about it, but part of him did enjoy the distance his adventure gave him from most other people. It's his fight, his responsibility, and his blood on his hands, no one else's.

After the events of twilight princess, he feels extremely out of place in Ordon and the castle. He feels too out of place in both worlds and the shit he's gone through is impossible to explain to anyone, nonetheless have them understand. He misses Midna more than words can describe.

Is secretly so, so petty when he's not forced into the "responsible" role and is actually just spite molded into a humans body. He wants to be on equal footing with someone so bad and not be forced the image of a guardian and hero 24/7. He needs to pull at someone pigtails is what I'm trying to say.

He is fishing do not approach him he is fishing he is having a good time he is relaxing and chilling the fuck out. Approach him with caution because he needs so much concentration for getting this damn fish. There will be monsters on the bank and he will still be fishing.

Actually... doesn't get along with his Zelda all that well, especially after the events of twilight princess. Both of them have major issues with grief and responsibility, and those just happen to collide in the absolute worst way that puts their relationship on the rocks. Tries his best to avoid audiences with her like the PLAGUE.

Has a septum piercing. Because I said so.

Post twilight princess, he actually has a ton of scars modeled off the twili markings thanks to his repeated transformations between human and beast. He hides the vast majority of them, but the one on his forehead is unavoidable and he dodges most questions about it.

hyrule warriors link:

GOD !!! GOODDDD !!! GOD. Okay so, I just gotta warn you now that I have so many headcanons for hw link that aren't really supported by the game. I have these headcanons because they make me happy and I like imagining him in situations.

OKAY STARTING OFF. hw link can read and speak fluent gerudo as he trained with the gerudo for several years as a sort of peace offering from the hyrulean royal family. Bridging off from that, he's one of the very, very few men allowed within gerudo walls as he proved his loyalty and willingness to fight and protect alongside the gerudo.

If he's around any gerudo for long enough, he'll start to adopt a long buried gerudo accent and it endlessly trips everyone up when it happens. It's because of this connection to the gerudo, that he also works as the hyrule ambassador to the gerudo as well as the hero of hyrule during the war.

Desperately wants a horse, wants a horse so fucking badly, but he never goes out of his way to getting one as he knows he'll get painfully attached. That and being in the middle of the war... he knows he'll just be setting himself for heartbreak, so he never gets his own horse despite the fact it would be extremely easy. Instead, he happily helps care for Zelda's horse and it's one of the very few times that you can see him smiling during the war.

Has severe survivors guilt :( so much so that he's basically mute around most people, with the exception of Zelda, Impa, and Lana. He can't make himself work up the courage to talk casually with his fellow soldiers as most either idolize him to an unhealthy degree, resent and despise him, or outright avoid him because of Cia's obsession with him. He doesn't blame the avoidance, of course, and he even understands the hatred directed towards him, which is why he never brings it up to Zelda.

He is not a flirt please believe me when I say that he is not a flirt in any sort of way and if anything flirting TERRIFIES him. He may be drop dead gorgeous, but he is not a flirt. Peace and love.

Has an extremely loose idea of his own character because he was discovered to be the hero and was immediately thrown before the eyes of Hyrule. He never had a point where he chose to take up the sword and the role of the hero, it was chosen for him before a straight up WAR started. That lack of a choice puts him apart from most other Link's because he never accepted nor took up the responsibility. The full weight of Hyrule was placed upon his shoulders without any warning and he struggles immensely in keeping a steady hand.

Blocks out the memories of having to kill traitorous soldiers. He knows he had to kill them. He knows he had to kill them because it was either him or them. He had to do it. It doesn't make the guilt sit any lighter in his stomach.

Incredibly rocky relationship with his Zelda, but as the war goes on it gets slowly better.

Truly fears Cia. 100% fears her. No amount of courage that the triforce gives him will ever remove the near instinctual terror he feels at the sight of her.

Okay a slightly nicer headcanon to sort of combat the meanness of all the rest of my previous headcanons- he blushes super easily and actually is sort of an awkward, shy guy. Also when he's allowed to feel anything but existential terror, he's actually a very mischievous and just wants to have a good time man.

skyward sword link:

I know this bitch is one of the most protective assholes on the planet. I know that there is malice in his heart and he is not above biting your hand off if you wrong him. All the while he will have the most innocent look stapled on his face.

Is actually the most bitchy of all the Link's and I will not move from this hill. His "mean" responses in game are the funniest things known to man and it endlessly amuses me seeing just how damn snappy he can be. He's a sweetheart and he's a bitch, he's multi-faceted.

Loves music!! Actually is the most musically talented of all the Link's and has a real sense of rhythm and melody! He also has a lovely singing voice that he doesn't show off a whole bunch, but it truly is a treat to hear him sing when it does happen.

Secretly looovvveeessss drama and will happily kick back and watch it unfold because he has no skin in said conflict whatsoever. If he's feeling particularly spiteful or if said person annoyed him in some way, he'll even instigate the conflict even further until they're in a figurative hole. He will hold no guilt. He is smiling and enjoying the show.

The lone night owl who is surrounded by early birds... he is in such pain cause he wants to be awake at night, but literally no one else wants to be.

A bit of an adrenaline junky... him and totk link have that in common lmao.

Uses his innocent face to his advantage and knows jussstttttt how to widdle out of trouble :) he's had to talk his way out of countless tardy excuses and having to deal with Groose that he's actually gotten pretty good at talking. If you let him talk for long enough, you'll find yourself being charmed and agreeing to something that you really, really shouldn't do.

Has so little tolerance for bullshit and he can and will draw a sword on someone if they purposely mess with him. See: Ghirahim.

Shows his love through playful bullying and the more casual and playful he is around you, the more he likes you! Sometimes, this is not a good thing because he will make it his mission to bother you.

After the events of skyward sword, he gets a bit of a tendency to be overprotective and is easier to worry thanks to the fact that he blamed himself for not saving Zelda quicker. Afterwards, he's a much lighter sleeper and doesn't sleep as well as there's a part of his brain prepared for something to go wrong.

Even if he looks calm and collected on the outside, trust that he is screaming his head off inside his brain. He's just gotten practice at controlling his reactions, but it still slips at times.

Super emotive! He actually moves his body a ton when he talks and he just emotes easily and frequently without even thinking about it. Zelda has made it a bit of a skill of dodging him if he gets super into a rant or topic. She loves him but he can and WILL run right into her and knock them both over.

And one general headcanon: They all want a challenging fight so bad that it makes them look stupid.

I'm sure I have more, but I spent a worrying amount of time on this so!! I hope you enjoy them!! :D and I hope you enjoy link between worlds!

[razzithold]

Zelda and Link? Delicious scrumptious I eat that shit the fuck up every time without fail. Comfort food of a relationship where there's potential for so much angst and hurt/comfort and camaraderie and friendship and understanding.

But also, Zelda and Ganondorf? Specifically totk Zelda but could also apply to other Zeldas - given an interpretation of Ganondorf that gives him more depth than simply being an evil demon king who threw all morality to the wind - could serve such a good foil relationship that also builds a kind of understanding all its own. Ganondorf represents all the worst aspects of a royal given immense power taking it to the extreme, and if Zelda realized that she's not actually as different from him as she thinks, it would be harrowing.

Headcanon ramblings, with some tears of the kingdom spoilers below.

Extrapolating from the wind waker characterization for my Headcanon that Ganondorf wasn't initially some horrible evil power-hungry tyrant, but a leader who wanted to elevate his people and improve their conditions. He wanted a better life for the Gerudo than the desert afforded, and when met with hostility, responded in turn. Ganondorf doesn't truly think he's the bad guy, why would he? Taking on the moniker of "demon king" not because he thinks himself evil but as an ironic spit in the face of the enemies that scorned him. He did not realize how immensely the power he stole corrupted him, it likely gave him tunnel vision for his goals. A very ends justify the means attitude. He thinks he's the hero of his story, why would he not? Unlike Zelda, he feels revenge is right, but he takes it to an extreme.

Zelda also could have an ends justify the means attitude in that she selflessly sacrifices herself and her agency time and time again for what she hopes is a common good. Using her power to empower her swordsman Link and seal away the evil and the monsters. How far would she be willing to go if she thought it would save Link and her kingdom? Would she ever go as far as Ganondorf given similar circumstances? What if she hadn't made the decision that turned her into a dragon and robbed her of agency? What if she reacted to the violence Ganondorf wrought with more violence? Righteous anger and a crusade against the evil? If she were to wield the triforce of power would it corrupt her the way it did Ganondorf? Would Ganondorf be selfless and wise if he wielded the triforce of wisdom?

I think before Ganondorf revealed his hand by stealing the triforce in ocarina of time or secret stone in tears of the kingdom, before he was corrupted by power, he could be an interesting mentor figure. An adversarial mentor figure, a way to teach Zelda what Not to do and what she has in common with him. They could've bonded over time by seeing their similarities through the differences. And once Zelda was lulled into the veneer of safety and understanding, it would make Ganondorf's betrayal all the more heartwrenching. Just when Zelda let her guard down, he took what did not belong to him, and Zelda paid the price. I wonder if there's a glimmer of regret in Ganondorf's mind for betraying someone he worked hard to build trust with.

Zelda who for so long distrusted him and tried to convince everyone else that Ganondorf was shady and not to be trusted, and how hard he could have worked to dissuade that assumption, just to shatter the thin trust he worked hard to build for so long. The pain he must feel about his own people disowning him and forsaking him for what he did. After taking that power and becoming so corrupted, and seeing all the world against him, it's no wonder Ganondorf wanted to watch the world burn.

I just know that poor Zelda has HELLA trust issues and commitment issues after all she's gone through. She cannot catch a break. Please let her get a break she's been through so much.