#He does so with Arya/Lyanna and Dany/Rhaegar

[fromtheseventhhell]

Renly had seemed anxious to know if the girl reminded him of anyone, and when Ned had no answer but a shrug, he had seemed disappointed. The maid was Loras Tyrell's sister Margaery, he'd confessed, but there were those who said she looked like Lyanna. "No," Ned had told him, bemused. (Eddard VI, AGOT)

This is literally people in fandom trying to make shallow connections between Lyanna and [X character] and presenting them as equally important as parallels drawn directly in the text. In fact, this coming after Ned tells Arya she reminds him of Lyanna (in looks and behavior) feels like George cementing the importance of their likeness. Other characters might have passing similarities to Lyanna, but Arya's parallels are much more meaningful than that and are being highlighted for a reason.

[ladyofchroyane]

god tywin lannister deserved worse

just remembering elias death and i wanna puke and the way tywin talks about elia and what happened is so damn gross

but rip tommen and myrcella we all know what’s about to happen in the next book :/

the cycle of violence just keeps spinning and damn you tywin for beginning it

(i got a bit crazy in the tags 💀)

[atopvisenyashill]

a lot of people think the point of ned's character is to highlight the folly of unyielding loyalty to a broken sense of honor but if grrm wanted the point of ned's character to be his folly he wouldn't have people fighting for "ned's girl" in his memory out of love, if they're looking for "deconstruction of blind allegiance to unfounded codes of honour" that's BARRISTAN!

yes let’s rant okay.

i think people really undersell the effect r+l=j on who he is and how he acts. people understand it as a fun plot twist rather than like, the hinge upon which his life swings. this is partially bc we still technically don’t know that rhaegar & lyanna are jon’s parents so we haven’t seen its true effects and partially because the show treats it as just a fun plot twist. it Only exists to make drama between jon & dany, it has no actual effect on their characters or anyone around them. like, arya and sansa are not going to have a more emotional reaction to finding out ned was lying to their mom? that robb will never know the truth? that rickon died in jon’s arms and HE will never know the truth? and dany like, had NO REACTION to him being RHAEGAR’S son, the man she has admired and based herself off of (not that they include this aspect of them at all 🤧).

but it’s not a plot twist to ned, it’s his life. and the chain of events goes robert forgives and even condones the murders of aegon & rhaenys -> ned leaves -> lyanna begs him to protect jon -> lyanna dies -> ned immediately reconciles with robert. it’s like that one sansa & starvation graphic i made, im talking about the action and effect here. why does ned move so goofy regarding robert? is it because he has unyielding loyalty to robert’s regime? or is it because he’s scared robert will find out he’s been lying to him for fifteen years? is it folly for ned to be against child killing? or is it a moral code that is Correct but at odds with the world he lives in, and based on his own fears of Jon being killed? like, people are always saying he’s too honorable, too loyal to robert but - he’s not! every moment people point to about him being ~too honorable~ are moments he is clearly acting out of fear of robert’s temper! he does not cover for robert’s temper, he does not allow robert to get away with shit, he spends every step in the capital arguing with robert until robert gets so annoyed he straight up leaves!

his life is before and after, and in the after he finds that he cannot live with the sort of man robert is, something lyanna knew long before ned. THATS his story. it’s not loyalty to a code that is based on nothing, it’s this frozen fear of discovery because he knows that if he sits and thinks too hard about it, he will realize that his best friend is a monster. it’s about ned REALIZING the code is based on nothing. what matters is not what everyone else thinks honor is, it’s what You as a person can live with morally, and it’s why, when he’s sitting in the dark dungeons, his thoughts are with lyanna, with jon, with sansa - he compromised his honor for love once, and he does it one more time before he dies. It’s not the “honorable” thing but it’s the right thing, and Ned’s story is very much about realizing he cannot do what is right while he is tied to Robert Baratheon.

[ai-manre]

The older I get the more I realize that the best way to enjoy any books or any piece of media is to do it far away from its rabid fandom. Be it asoiaf or SnK or ATLA, the fandoms have the absolute worst takes from people entirely divorced from the context, the tone, the literal and structural elements of a story. From things the author makes entirely too obvious. Because turns out most people actually have no reading comprehension and rather than try to learn they instead double down on their bad takes.

For example it's clear that GRRM:

- loves Arya, she's his favorite as he's admitted many times. There's a reason Jon or Bran see someone random and think "oh she reminds me of Arya". Arya is one of the most heroic characters in the books (in league with Dany and Jon) and her heroism will definitely lead to a great payoff

- loves House Targaryen. I think House Targ is his thesis of duty vs love, greatness and tragedy all in one. He's written so much of House Targaryen, and "it's got to end, even if it's with fire and blood". Fire is life, cold is the enemy, the dragons are fire and will bring hope. They have already brought hope to characters who know about them (Tyrion, Maester Aemon, Sam, even Jon).

- Dany is the grand hero, she might "pass under a shadow" but she will reach the light. Any lover of fantasy who is a feminist should seriously celebrate this. How often does a fantasy series like this have the chosen one be a female character?? Dany is the big damn hero!

- GRRM loves Tyrion. He's his favorite character to write. Tyrion might right now be going through his dark turn, but he is someone kind and caring at his core, and it will shine through.

- all the setup to Jon's parentage will matter! Lyanna clutching the winter roses even on her deathbed, Rhaegar dying with Lyanna's name on her lips, the Kingsguard saying "Ser Darry is a good man and true but not of the Kingsguard. The Kingsguard does not flee" matters! Jon's crypt dreams of Stark Kings snarling at him, Moqorro's dream of "dragons true and false" and Rhaegar's "a song of ice and fire" were all setup with a conclusion in mind. Not as redirections.

All the literal, structural story elements matter! GRRM's story isn't hidden in obscure use of "white hot knife" in two random instances across 5 books, his story is right in the text, plain to see and follow.

[spectrum-color]

So we all know GRRM, like all authors, took a lot of inspo from real life fairy tales, religion, and mythology. There are a ton of parallels but I picked out a few to put in this poll

Propaganda: Before anyone says anything, I know a lot of these are dark spins on the original. I’m not trying to say Littlefinger is a handsome prince or whatever. Also note that some of this is based on either things that haven’t happened yet but are highly likely to happen in Winds/Dream up to and including being confirmed by GRRM.

Arya and Jaqen as Hades and Persephone-the young maiden of spring is found by the lord of the underworld, who gives her an object (in this case a coin) to trick her into being trapped in the world of the dead. When she leaves home, winter comes, but when she returns, so does spring.

Sansa as Rapunzel-a princess locked in a tower by an evil sorceress (or just queen) who is spirited away by a man who wants to marry her. Strong focus on her hair as a symbol of her identity.

The Brotherhood Without Banners as Robin Hood and his Merry Men-a band of outlaws who defend the common people against corrupt authority figures. This one is really self explanatory.

Cersei as the evil queen and Margaery/Sansa/eventually Dany as Snow White-a vain, cruel women terrified of her beauty fading and being replaced by a younger woman who outshines her, so she tries to destroy her perceived rival, ultimately leading to her own downfall. The girls in Snow Whites slot are the popular choices for the identity of the YMBQ and the one Cersei is currently convinced it is.

Jaime and Brienne as Beauty and the Beast-a double subversion. Jaime is handsome and Brienne is ugly, but when they meet she’s brave and kind while he’s selfish and cruel, so it’s the beast who helps the beauty be better.

Lyanna, Rhaegar, and Robert as Helen of Troy, Paris, and Menelaus-a beautiful woman fiercely desired by two powerful men, she either runs off with or is kidnapped by a prince, leading to her (soon to be) husband retaliating by starting a tragic war.

Stannis and Shireen as Agammemon and Iphegenia-a king and commander sacrifices his daughter to the gods to win a war. Bonus if this ends up causing Stannis’ downfall.

Lady Stoneheart as Demeter-a mother wanders the land bringing destruction and misery as she searches for her daughter(s.) When her daughters return to her, spring comes.

Cersei and Jaimes children as the emperor wearing no clothes-the emperor walks around naked insisting that he’s a wearing magic invisible outfit, but everyone is afraid to tell him the truth until finally a child points out that he’s wearing nothing at all. See: everyone pretending not to notice that Cerseis children are the result of incest with her brother, and Ned finally realizing the truth when his 11 year old daughter points out that Joffrey is nothing like Robert.

Bran as the Fisher King-the Fisher King is a character from Arthurian myth. He is the guardian of the magical holy grail, protecting it so it (and power) does not fall into the hands of the unworthy. Notably, he also has a deliberating injury to his legs or groin (depending on the version.) Of course the endgame Bran of the show is a blatant rip-off of Leto II from Children of Dune, but I think the Fisher King sounds more like GRRM would do.

Dany as Moses-a leader who has prophetic visions, who after performing a miracle, frees her people from slavery and leads them on a harsh journey to a new land. Notably regarded as a critically important figure by a monotheistic religion.

[horizon-verizon]

I also think Jon is the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna, BASTARD son.

I think she was the knight of the laughing tree. They met, they actually talked, got to know each other. He gave her the crown publicly. They ran away together. Rhaegar was a romantic at heart, he liked poetry, music, yet he was in a loveless marriage. Lyanna thought herself doomed about to enter into a loveless marriage with a man that had countless bastards and would keep on having them; a man who was in love with the idea of her. Rhaegar and Lyanna were most definitely going to fall for each other. She was brave, daring, Rhaegar loved that. He was charming and saw the real her, Lyanna loved that.

She was truly devastated when he died, and so was he. I think it’s cannon that “Lyanna” was the last thing he said.

Many people hate them, but I actually love their story. It’s awfully tragic but I think it was true love.

But going back to Jon Snow, he’s so obsessed with winterfell, the Starks, the north and being a northerner, that I think he’s gonna give two flying f**** that his daddy is Rhaegar and he’s half Targaryen.

Rhaegar was a romantic at heart, he liked poetry, music, yet he was in a loveless marriage. Lyanna thought herself doomed about to enter into a loveless marriage with a man that had countless bastards and would keep on having them [...] She was brave, daring, Rhaegar loved that. He was charming and saw the real her, Lyanna loved that.

Yeah, it's as simple as all that, really. And yes, I agree, I wrote a lot of this as to how/why they were attracted AND loved each other.

Plus I also love stories like this: forbidden romances PLUS "haunting" legacies PLUS political corruption. Lancelot and Guinevere, I'm there. GRRM has combined it all here, where the social denial/rejection of love has long negative effects on a community/nation when it's directly made to tie in wit world-savingness, etc. bc it extends te consequences for social oppression due to abusive systmatic practices. It's inherently "soft" but "punk" for rebelliousness of it.

And I semi-agree abt Jon, as I do think he'd ponder about it. It's not everyday you get to claim/realize you're a child of a powerful ruling dynasty.

He & Rhaegar may have different kinds of je-nais-se-quoi charisma that gets people to follow them (or that's the claim) and Jon I think would be curious if he could/would be able to ride a dragon (...does he even know about Dany?!) bc it'd be another way to offset his basatrdry. But he thinks imself as more a Stark after having lived in Winterfell literally all of his developmental life. Rhaegar is a bit too distant a figure--& the Targaryen Red Keep is pysically too far to explore while bein overrun w/Lannisters--in the way Lyanna isn't, and unlike Rhaear who wasn't all that interested in swordplay as far as what it'd do for is political image (allies & Aerys), Lyanna is the sort of woman he really admires. Winterfell is much closer to the Wall and since we all know he's going to be there eventually, he's more to "rediscover" Rhaegar through her. I don't think he'll get the bulk of his power & authority through any Targ link, he gains more through Lyanna and Arya.

[jackoshadows]

I feel like Robb's decree legitimizing Jon Snow as Jon Stark is in there to remove the issue of bastardy when Jon learns about his Targaryen lineage.

As in, Jon will learn about who his parents really are as Jon Stark, the KITN. And then the angst for him will be about who he is - Stark or Targaryen and not bastard or legitimate.

Jon Snow goes from Ned's bastard at Winterfell to the Lord Commander's steward at the Night's Watch to undercover agent with the Freefolk to defending the Wall in battle to being elected Lord Commander of the NW to most probably Jon Stark, Lord of Winterfell and King in the North as per Robb's decree.

He goes from one of the lowest positions to one of the highest. From the illegitimate bastard who didn't even have a home (Catelyn wants him gone as soon as Ned leaves for KL) to Lord of Winterfell and KITN.

I can see him thinking that he has reached that pinnacle - KITN - when he hears about his parentage. Which then throws everything into confusion again making him feel like his life has been based on a lie.

And if he then does embrace his Targaryen side/heritage/father it would be because he wants to and not because of the angst/issues around bastardy or the chance that he could indeed be legitimate.

ADwD Jon Snow has already made peace with his bastardy, shrugging off insults and ignoring the bigots and Robb's decree legitimizing him will be the final piece in resolving that inner pain and angst - particularly when the memory that pains him the most is Robb telling him that he can never be Lord of Winterfell on account of his bastardy.

So that when Jon finally learns the truth, it will center on and revolve around people, around Lyanna, Rhaegar and Ned. About being Targaryen. About having Targaryen family in Dany and being Arya's cousin. And not center around his bastardy.

I feel like we are going to see, in order:

Jon Snow → Jon Stark → Jon Targaryen → Jon Snow

with the series ending with just plain old Jon Snow, both Stark and Targaryen.

[rise-my-angel]

Because I love salt, what do you find to be the most annoying lines of so-called evidence or foreshadowing for ships you hate? For me it’s hard to pick just one but Jon saying Sansa looked radiant is up there for me because the idea that Jon had a crush on Sansa in the first book or before is so much worse than the thought of them meeting again and then developing feelings (which I still hate, but it’s just not as bad). It’s super normal for people to think their siblings look nice. Arya’s POV chapters also remark that Sansa is beautiful. Ashford theory is annoying because it was originally about the hound and Sansa (also hate this ship but the fans are a million times more tolerable). I also roll my eyes when fans insist that the bride of fire line foreshadows Dany marrying Jon (and I even LIKE that ship but only in an AU in my head where Lyanna is Jon’s mom but Rhaegar is NOT the father)

"Because I love salt"

You have come to the right place as this is an accurate real life photo of me running this blog:

Thats a good one I hate though, multiple siblings and family members in this series all compliment one another. Even characters with bad relationships compliment each other. In the books, Arya recalls that her father calls her pretty, which only Jon ever also called her. Does that mean Ned had romantic feelings for Arya? Or Lyanna for that matter? No of course not. Thinking someone in terms of beauty is zero indicator of attraction in any way.

Also its even funnier with Jonsas because Sansa herself notes that Arya looks just like Jon, and then on multiple occasions notes that she thinks Arya is ugly. So, its even less compelling.

In the show Tyrion compliments Cersei's beauty all the time and we know there is nothing to it. It's reading into something that isn't there beacuse if they ignore the way beauty is used in this series as a common compliment towards other highborns, then its a really simple box to check on really stock symptoms of attraction. (I also dont really enjoy Sansan but it is funny how they just stay in their circle and mind their business like they somehow are winning based on being not fucking annoying alone).

I'm gonna rapid fire for Jon here because pretty much every single ship he has is backed by the worst evidence known to man.

The idea that Jon never thinks about Sansa because he loves her the most is dumb and not how we know Jon works. He holds back what he says not what he thinks. He thinks of Sansa the least because despite being his sister, she treated him like shit because she looks down on him for being a bastard. Jon cares about her, but not anywhere near how he cares about his other siblings who have clearly shown him love and respect.

The worst of Jon and Arya is a very very old outline that grrm scrapped. Its an outline that wasnt used and most of it isnt canon so it is literally a piece of non evidence for a ship that is disgusting. (Both Jonsa and Jonrya make Jons good older brother behavior towards his sisters look predatory and the shippers are all literally too blind to realize it)

Jon and Dany have literally nothing to back that up, because they are staged as moral oppositions to one another, dont know the other exists, and the idea that the motif of ice and fire will be about the coming together of romance is antithetical to everything grrm has established about the themes of his story. They are so far from being a ship that literally the ONLY thing they have to support it is the show and thats an absolute joke (see my every post that got me blocked by jonerys stans for more detail)

Ygritte is a rapist, so I accept literally zero "evidence" on that ones validity.

I also hate the "the actors have chemistry" argument to support really bad ships, because some actors having chemistry doesnt equal good romance, it equals good on screen dynamics in its own unique way. Like Tywin and Arya in season 2 have GREAT chemistry, but I don't need to explain why shipping that is creepy. Catelyn and Jaime have great chemistry, but it doesn't mean anything was actually there which could've worked.

Like shipping is fine, but so many people just INSIST it is canon or meant to be instead of something fun to think about. I joke ship about Stannis and Davos because its fun but I'm not over here arguing that people who don't ship it are "ignoring the text in front of them deliberately".

Also honestly, its really funny to me that you had to specify you'd only like that ship if they weren't related. Big oof on that one. Jonerys stans hate the idea they couldn't be related because they somehow think Dany being his AUNT isn't at all creepy. Like, Dany is related to Jon the way Jon thinks hes related to his MOTHER. There is no capability of romance or attraction there, that's crazy.

People who are biologically related but don't know it, 99% of the time are in fact, still not accidentally attracted to each other because that's biological survival instinct. Anti inbreeding protocol. But they think because DANY was raised to think her families blood superiority driven incest is fine, that somehow means JON would think its fine. Jonsas have no argument for that they just have to pray desperately that Jon would want to fuck his little sister despite how much it makes him look like a predator.

I'm sorry, I hope you have water on hand to wash down all this goddamn salt I just threw at you all at once.

Really, it isn't individual lines that irk me, its the overall tendencies of these ships to put more emphasis on things that don't even exist to justify something they don't even realize WHY people think it's creepy. I don't hate a lot of ships, just...all pro incest ones, and ones that promote predatory/rapist behaviors. Which is why I don't ship much in this series.

We're probably not meant to ship many people in this series if I in any way understand even a modicum of why grrm writes the lack of romance the way he does.

[venusintheblindspots-blog]

DECONSTRUCTIONS of Fantasy Archetypes in ASOIF

So, do y’all remember that one GRRM interview where he talks about Aragon’s tax policy?

The link to the interview is right here : https://www.tolkiensociety.org/2014/04/grrm-asks-what-was-aragorns-tax-policy/

I’ve always interpreted that quote as a critique of the endings that are given to most fantasy heroes, where they save the day, and continue to rule a happy kingdom.

Now, there are many characters in ASOIF that could be linked to the hero archetype,-Dany, Jon, Tyrion, Arya, Sansa, Davos, etc.,(literally almost every POV character is certain type of fantasy hero, or possesses traits of one, although most of them are reconstructions).

But the one character I’ve always linked to that quote, is Robert Baratheon.

Robert’s Rebellion, without the nuance, reads like a Disney fairytale. The young hero (Robert), saving the maiden (Lyanna),from the evil prince (Rhaegar) and his father (Aerys). In a Disney fairytale, Robert and Lyanna would have married, and rule as the King and Queen of a kingdom that adores them. Rhaegar and Aerys would have been disposed of, and most people would celebrate it.

But in ASOIF, that’s not what quite happens.

Romance

Robert and Lyanna were betrothed, yes, but based off of perception of Lyanna from Ned, her brother (and the only POV character who actually knew her), and what we’ve seen of Robert, their marriage would’ve been miserable for her and him ( eventually).

“You never knew Lyanna as I did, Robert,” Ned told him. “You saw her beauty, but not the iron underneath. She would have told you that you have no business in the melee.”

“ Robert will never keep to one bed,” Lyanna had told him at Winterfell, on the night long ago when their father had promised her hand to the young Lord of Storm’s End. “I hear he has gotten a child on some girl in the Vale.” Ned had held the babe in his arms; he could scarcely deny her, nor would he lie to his sister, but he had assured her that what Robert did before their betrothal was of no matter, that he was a good man and true who would love her with all his heart. Lyanna had only smiled. “Love is sweet, dearest Ned, but it cannot change a man’s nature.”

In these two quotes from Ned Stark’s chapters in A Game of Thrones, Lyanna seemingly has no interest in marrying Robert Baratheon, despite the ‘interest’ he has in her.

Who Are Robert’s ‘Villains’ ?

Putting the ‘romance’ in Robert’s story aside, we’ll now focus on his villains : Rhaegar and Aerys Targaryen. Most book readers agree that Aerys, the mad King was not a suitable ruler during the time of Robert’s Rebellion and needed to be gone. But Rhaegar Targaryen has always been a polarizing character within the fandom, and the text.

“I vowed to kill Rhaegar for what he did to her.”

“In my dreams, I kill him every night,” Robert admitted. “A thousand deaths will still be less than he deserves.”

“Her brother Rhaegar had died for the woman he loved.”

“He had failed Prince Rhaegar once. He would not fail his son, not whilst life remained in his body.”

“Rhaegar, who would have been a finer king than any of them.”

“Your brother Rhaegar is still remembered, with great love.”

Now, it is important to note that all of these are opinions from different characters, most of whom didn’t know Rhaegar personally, so there is a lot of bias in some of these quotes. But the quote that stook out to me the most comes from Barristan Selmy :

“It was said that no man ever knew Prince Rhaegar, truly.”

Because as readers, we don’t really know him at all. We know of his actions, ( some of which I find truly selfish) and there are a thousand theories as to why he does what he does, but we truly don’t know.

But anyways, let’s get back to Robert because I don’t intend to dissect Rhaegar as yet.

Robert’s Rebellion

I’m going to just do a quick summary. Rhaegar ‘steals’ the woman that Robert is betrothed to, and in result, her brother and father are murdered by his father. His father, Aerys then calls for the heads of her betrothed, Robert Baratheon and her brother, Eddard Stark. After witnessing the deaths of Rickard and Brandon Stark, Jaime Lannister executes the mad King. Robert and Rhaegar face each other on the Trident, Rhaegar dies,- y’all should know this story by now.

Ultimately, Robert killing Rhaegar and saving the realm from the mad King and his son should’ve been a good thing. It should’ve secured peace and safety for everyone in the realm. The main reason most characters (Jaime Lannister) in the books wanted the Mad King gone is because his reign threatens the safety of the innocent people of Kingslanding, and the rest of Westeros. All of these things would have happened if Robert’s Rebellion was a simple fairytale, and Robert himself were a true hero (I sound a little like Sansa here, lol), but he isn’t and now we’re going to explore why.

Those Who Weren’t Protected By Our Hero

Let’s reign in Elia Martell, one of my favorite minor characters in the series.

The majority of the time we hear of Elia, we hear of the tragic ending she and her babies got. There are theories of her being on board with Rhaegar’s ‘plans’, (theories I absolutely do not buy into), or even her being so unsatisfactory of a wife that Rhaegar may have secretly hated her(quite extreme for a character we hardly know). But one thing is for certain : she did her duty as a wife in Westeros. She provided Rhaegar with two healthy children, a boy, Aegon, and a girl, Rhaenys.

“Princess Elia of Dorne pleading for mercy as Rhaegar’s heir was ripped from her breast and murdered before her eyes. ”

“Some said it had been Gregor who’d dashed the skull of the infant prince Aegon Targaryen against a wall, and whispered that afterward he had raped the mother, the Dornish princess Elia, before putting her to the sword. These things were not said in Gregor’s hearing.”

“It was said that Rhaegar’s little girl had cried as they dragged her from beneath her bed to face the swords. The boy had been no more than a babe in arms, yet Lord Tywin’s soldiers had torn him from his mother’s breast and dashed his head against a wall.”

What are Elia, Rhaenys and Aegon if not innocents?

Let’s see what Robert Baratheon has to say on that matter.

“Robert’s hatred of the Targaryens was a madness in him. He remembered the angry words they had exchanged when Tywin Lannister had presented Robert with the corpses of Rhaegar’s wife and children as a token of fealty. Ned had named that murder; Robert called it war. When he had protested that the young prince and princess were no more than babes, his new-made king had replied, “I see no babes. Only dragonspawn.”

Mind you, this man is talking about a toddler, a newborn and their mother. “I see no babes. Only dragonspawn.”

Robert’s take on Elia Martell and her children is not only cold and heartless, but goes against the ‘hero protecting innocents’ trope.

Robert Baratheon Almost Two Decades After His Rebellion

Now let’s look at the Robert that we meet in A Game Of Thrones.

He’s not the ‘Demon of the Trident’ who saved the realm from chaos, but rather a terrible has-been. I mean, just look at Jon Snow’s reaction to seeing him :

“The king was a great disappointment to Jon. His father had talked of him often: the peerless Robert Baratheon, demon of the Trident, the fiercest warrior of the realm, a giant among princes. Jon saw only a fat man, red-faced under his beard, sweating through his silks. He walked like a man half in his cups.”

He will probably be remembered as a good king for most people in Westeros, but only because of the small council that does the work for him.

“Perhaps we had best wait for Ser Barristan and the king to join us,” Ned suggested.

Renly Baratheon laughed aloud. “If we wait for my brother to grace us with his royal presence, it could be a long sit.”

“Our good King Robert has many cares,” Varys said. “He entrusts some small matters to us, to lighten his load.”

He’s a drunkard who abuses his wife and children and reminisces on a dead girl who had zero interest in him.

“The night of our wedding feast, the first time we shared a bed, he called me by your sister’s name. He was on top of me, in me, stinking of wine, and he whispered Lyanna.”

“The talk is you and the queen had angry words last night.”

The mirth curdled on Robert’s face. “The woman tried to forbid me to fight in the melee. She’s sulking in the castle now, damn her.”

“My son. How could I have made a son like that, Ned?”

“Ned touched her cheek gently. “Has he done this before?”

“Once or twice.” She shied away from his hand. ”

He’s kind of….pathetic.

George R. R. Martin plays with the idea that good people and good intentions do not always equate to good kings, vice versa. He uses a lot of common fantasy tropes and archetypes, but reconstructs them in a realistic way. Robert Baratheon, like most characters in ASOIF plays into the hero archetype, but him being a hero in the story is subjective and highly depends on who is perceiving him.

That’s it for now. I might do more analytical posts for some of my favorite characters but don’t take my word for it.

[esther-dot]

As pointed out Jon going to war with Ramsey for Arya has similarities with Brandon going to KL for Lyanna. Does that mean Ramsey is Rhaegar(and Aerys)? Starks fighting with Boltons for WF will have some similarities with Robert Rebellion against Aerys. Also Jon Arryn declared his support to Robert and Ned. Which means Robert Arryn could lend support to Sansa in this war. Ramsey threatening Jon has similar vibes with Aerys threatening Ned and Robert.

What do you think?

Oh, I guess the letter and being summoned to die does work as a parallel with Aerys. I’d think the Aerys vibes will mostly be around Dany, and at one point I thought the KotV would join in when the North was gonna defy her for a rebellion callback, but the way LF spoke about the Knights of the Vale paired with Sansa's belief that Royce wouldn't fight for her made me think we would have them involved in reclaiming Winterfell:

Last of all came the Royces, Lord Nestor and Bronze Yohn. The Lord of Runestone stood as tall as the Hound. Though his hair was grey and his face lined, Lord Yohn still looked as though he could break most younger men like twigs in those huge gnarled hands. His seamed and solemn face brought back all of Sansa's memories of his time at Winterfell. She remembered him at table, speaking quietly with her mother. She heard his voice booming off the walls when he rode back from a hunt with a buck behind his saddle. She could see him in the yard, a practice sword in hand, hammering her father to the ground and turning to defeat Ser Rodrik as well. He will know me. How could he not? She considered throwing herself at his feet to beg for his protection. He never fought for Robb, why should he fight for me? The war is finished and Winterfell is fallen. (AFFC, Alayne I)

Petyr arched an eyebrow. "When Robert dies. Our poor brave Sweetrobin is such a sickly boy, it is only a matter of time. When Robert dies, Harry the Heir becomes Lord Harrold, Defender of the Vale and Lord of the Eyrie. Jon Arryn's bannermen will never love me, nor our silly, shaking Robert, but they will love their Young Falcon . . . and when they come together for his wedding, and you come out with your long auburn hair, clad in a maiden's cloak of white and grey with a direwolf emblazoned on the back . . . why, every knight in the Vale will pledge his sword to win you back your birthright. So those are your gifts from me, my sweet Sansa . . . Harry, the Eyrie, and Winterfell. That's worth another kiss now, don't you think?" (AFFC, Alayne II)

I don't think she's marrying Harry, I do think she flees North (the girl in grey), and there's that the prophecy that indicates LF will die in Winterfell, so, I assume LF decides to follow her, and Bronze Yohn might too, but the weather has been emphasized so much it's really hard to see how all this traveling happens! Robyn is really attached to "Alayne," and it would be nice for him to see his mother's murderer receive justice, so maybe all of that does lead North.

It hadn't registered that works as a nod to precanon, but many bloggers have talked about Sansa’s parallels with Ned before, so her winning back Winterfell/being in the North works that way too. That's a fun read on it @please-dot!

[khaleesizaldrizoti-a]

a starter for @steel-winter-rose

the north ──── astonishingly cold , breathtakingly beautiful , and so vastly different from the continent of essos. snow blankets the ground , and the queen’s breath fogs in the air before her. she lifts gloved hands to her lips , cupping them and breathing out in a futile attempt at warming her body. fur - lined boots crunch in the snow , each step carrying her closer to winterfell’s keep ──── warmth awaits within , whether from a crackling hearth or the walls warmed by the waters of the underground hot springs. her mind wanders to her children , left to their own defenses in an unfamiliar climate. dragons were not meant for the north , for the blistering cold , and her children still grieved the loss of their brother.

it is with the clearing of a throat that dany is torn from her thoughts. beside her , missandei stands tall , hands clasped before her. the queen is able to trace her gaze to the lone woman that has captured her advisor’s attention ──── the lady lyanna stark , who dany recalls having captured the heart of her eldest brother , ultimately leading to the downfall of a once great house.

“ leave us , ” daenerys utters to the young woman beside her. though she does not check if her order was followed , the last targaryen approaches the she - wolf , the one her brother , rhaegar , had risked it all for.

“ my lady stark , ” the queen greets the older woman simply. “ i must extend my gratitude for hosting myself and my unsullied. while i am aware that the offer was extended in agreement that i aid your nephew in his fight against the dead , you are still a lady of this great house , and i am certain that you have had your say in the matter. ” jon had bent the knee to her , that much was true , but he was still a bastard , in the end , with no rule over winterfell. lyanna , sansa , and arya could have easily turned her away. ( though an unwise decision , with an army and two dragons at her back. )

“ would you take a walk with me , lady stark ? ” she asks.

[ladyofchroyane]

on lyanna as her own knight

lyanna’s narrative role seems to be an interesting reimagining of the classic ‘damsel in distress’ and ‘princess trapped in the tower’ tropes. these are fantasy staples, but ones considered fairly problematic by modern audiences for obvious reasons. george’s use of these tropes isn’t straightforward—he’s reconstructing them through a myriad of perspectives with lyanna at the center.

we were introduced to lyanna through two very different lenses: daenerys targaryen’s and robert baratheon’s. both had their own versions of the rebellion, but each reflected the same glaring flaw: lyanna was reduced to either a victim (in robert’s version) or a love interest (in dany’s). her own perspective was never truly considered by either of them.

robert’s version was slowly deconstructed: ‘you never knew lyanna as i did, robert … you saw her beauty, but not the iron underneath.’ this line painted robert’s version of events as extremely unreliable, and hammered home the earlier hints that robert was not to be trusted on this subject. and through lyanna’s mini-me—arya stark—and ned’s own reflections, we get a more vivid picture: lyanna was intelligent, willful, and opinionated, and most importantly, someone who was not happy with the role others had chosen for her. she did not want to be robert’s bride.

dany started from a different angle, but her understanding of rhaegar (and by extension, lyanna) was previously limited. though now her view of rhaegar is slowly being reconstructed as she learns more about him, and with it comes a growing awareness of her idolized brothers faults. her questions—especially the ones about elia—signal the slow reconstruction of rhaegar as a much more human hero, flawed but still good.

so while both robert and dany started off with and introduced readers to faulty tales, each of their versions have already been challenged. the key difference? dany wants to know the truth. robert was not interested in seeing his fantasy corrected—he needed it to be true.

but even after those versions evolved, the missing piece is still lyanna herself. she was reduced to a symbol in both narratives—robert’s lost love, rhaegar’s northern girl. ned’s pov challenged robert’s version and offered glimpses of who lyanna really was, but ned died before the full truth could be told. (if only he had made it to the wall to speak with jon…)

and since dany’s focus is on her brother rhaegar (understandably so), it’s left to other povs to bring lyanna’s side into focus. enter bran, and the tale of the knight of the laughing tree—the point where the deconstruction of the damsel in distress and princess in the tower tropes truly began in earnest.

i fully believe in the lyanna = the knight of the laughing tree theory, especially since it is consistent with the version of lyanna ned introduced to us. this theory helps to reframe lyanna as her own knight, and possibly her own savior. it also explains why the text keeps reminding us that lyanna was a skilled horsewoman. on that note, does anyone honestly believe lyanna would get caught by rhaegar and his kingsguard while she was on horseback… if so then pls bsffr lol.

in meera’s tale, the knight of the laughing tree is the story’s hero. bran—lover of underdogs—enjoyed the tale and asked: ‘did the knight of the laughing tree win the tourney and marry a princess?’ he was told no. that led to bran having some mild critiques of the story—a little boys disappointment at the injustice of it all—and meera’s response to that hinted at the sad ending of the next installment of the tale of the knight of the laughing tree :(

but this image of lyanna as her own knight, of the hint that rhaegar was her prince(ss)… well, besides inverting gendered fairytale dynamics, this becomes central to george’s clear and deliberate reworking of traditional fantasy tropes. the classic tale is: a dragon kidnaps a maiden, locks her in a tower, and a knight comes to slay the dragon and save her. but here? lyanna was the knight. she found her own way out of an unwanted marriage and may have even found love along the way—doomed as it was.

and personally? i’m simply not interested in interpreting this as a subversion of a subversion—because then we’re right back where we started: lyanna as a damsel who needed to be saved by men from the evil dragon. and that’s boring. when we consider key moments—like rhaegar’s final word being lyanna’s name, or the symbolic weight of the winter rose—it all points to the same conclusion: rhaelya was a tragic romance.

and continuing with the subversion—it’s much more interesting to imagine the tower not as a prison, but as a place of joy. a fleeting joy, eventually destroyed. ned tearing the tower down becomes deeply poetic. but that joy? it lives on in jon—rhaelya’s bastard son. honestly, it’s almost too on the nose that another highborn bastard is named ‘joy.’

so to me, this is the story of a girl who became her own knight, chose her own fate, and paid the price for a freedom the world refused to give her.

[jackoshadows]

This is another Sansa stan who uses the character of Jon as a prop for Sansa and then pretends that the Dany hate is because she was 'abusive' to Jon and not because they want Sansa to have Dany's narrative importance and relationships in the story.

This is their pfp : Yeah, the blue roses is all about Sansa...

They are the typical Sansa stan who writes stuff like this

but they just really stan Sansa while Jon, Arya and Bran are side props to support Sansa's story.

For example when Sansa stans say they are an 'Arya enthusiast' what do they mean? It means Arya's endgame is her fucking off in a boat (They really want her gone from Winterfell and Jon lol) and also Arya hates duty and work and cannot make complex decisions unlike the excellent Sansa who has the education, skills, determination and confidence to be ruler!! Undermines and deliberately twists the Arya/Lyanna parallels because how dare Arya be good looking and then mocks the people pointing this out.

Ned and Sansa are gentle people (Never mind that we were introduced to the story with Ned beheading someone!) unlike Arya and Catelyn! Also this quote is hilarious:

"Hell, they (Ned and Sansa) even try to save others from harm even if it was cause them harm in return."

I mean, one of the first things that happens in AGoT is Arya trying to save Mycah from the crown prince at great risk to herself while Sansa selfishly lies and supports Joffrey because she loves him!

The only Arya relationship they care about is Arya/Sansa - not any of the other Stark sibling relationships with deeper connections like Arya/Jon, Arya/Bran or even Arya/Rickon. What an 'Arya enthusiast' this person is!!

What about Jon? What does the person who thinks Dany was 'abusive' to Jon think about book Jon:

Sansa did nothing wrong in treating Jon differently because he's a bastard. She was just being honest you guys! Arya is just too young and ignorant to know that bastards are lesser human beings, hence why she cultivated a relationship with Jon Snow unlike Sansa who was just being real.

Also poor Bran getting dragged into this and equated to Sansa for some reason, when Bran loved Jon so much ("He loved Jon with all his heart at that moment") and advised that a bastard rule Lady Hornwood’s lands because he remembered Jon and Jon's absolute joy at hearing that Bran had woken up.

Undermines Jon Snow's relationship with Arya in favor of Jonsa. 'You know nothing' which phrase is used before Jon remembers Arya and decides to go to war for her is now apparently 'this phrase connected with sansa in his recollection before he dies'. Never mind that Jon does not actually even die here 😂! He dies later and as he is dying he actually thinks 'Stick 'em with the pointy end' - Needle/Arya and because some men just stuck him with lots of pointy ends - and 'Ghost'.

Jon Snow would rather be Ned's bastard than Rhaegar's legitimate son because he thinks he was just a 'stain on Ned's honor'. A complete and deliberate misinterpretation. Jon is angry at Ned for siring a bastard! He is not sad about being a stain on Ned's honor! Again, the Sansa stan fandom loves to portray Jon as self loathing and pathetic - he will feel guilty for what Rhaegar did, he blames himself for being a stain on Ned's honor etc. Fuck that shit! Jon Snow has never been one to embrace the guilt of other character's bad deeds.

Feeling discriminated against for being a bastard is just Jon being 'dramatic' and the same as Sansa being naive. He was just jealous because Robb got a kiss from Sansa...

The younger Starks don't much think about the dead Starks in the generation above theirs. Jon only refers to Ned and Benjen because he interacts with them. However, Jon is apparently traumatized by what happened to Brandon and Rickard

It gets worse: "If anything it should be Jon asking for Catelyn’s forgiveness"....

Catelyn never abused Jon - it's just 'emotional distance' and Jon growing up in Winterfell is 'Ned's love child being paraded before her'.

Nah, I just love how these people make up hypotheticals about Dany 'abusing' Jon so that they can hate her (And what they call 'abuse' is just pretty much two rulers who don't know each other treating each other as negotiating rulers do and farcical gifsets about Dany being LF because they stood the same way! 😂😂😂) and then go on justify and celebrate Sansa's classism towards Jon and Catelyn's very real emotional abuse of Jon Snow in the books, while downplaying book Jon's very real feelings of hurt and trauma.

PS: I find it interesting how Sansa/Jonsa stans falsely slander Catelyn's character to hate on Arya, ex - they are both violent and impulsive and run around biting people unlike gentle Ned/Sansa - and at the same time excuse Catelyn's emotional abuse of Jon Snow as being justified and Jon Snow is just being over sensitive and thin skinned about it. I guess they really want these made up Ned/Sansa parallels for Sansa to be QITN and also their farcical Nedcat/Jonsa metas means that Cat was not really abusive towards Jon, it was just that one time and it was Jon's fault for being 'paraded around Winterfell as Ned's love child'.

what are they smoking?

[horizon-verizon]

I initially assumed the insistence on Sara Snow came from the Rhaegar and Lyanna resemblance, but then I found out it was actually about Jonsa resemblance, which makes less sense... ok you have a Stark bastard, but where does Sansa fit into all of this?

A)

The jonsa ship? Sansa stans who ship this seem to hope for Sansa to become Lady of Winterfell and be "compensated" for all her suffering in the bk or the show, and having Jon be married and/o emotionally devoted to her serves to make a moody pretty boy with skills be her commander, a la Daemon for Rhaenyra you might say. This is the priority from what I've seen so far.

It's another illicit or forbidden love as he's her brother and a bastard who her own mother who died for their older brother and them all disliked. It's also, I think, a fuck-you to GRRM's orig plan to have Jon fall for Arya not bc Arya was also his sister and even younger than Sansa, but primarily bec this, to them, places Arya as the "true" Lady of Winterfell.

I'd take a gander to say this is actually the issue and why some might say it's a Jonsa thing. Perhaps they make similar how Sansa's father has a hand in her encountering danger through her planned betrothal to Joffrey (Aerys continually endangering Rhaegar and his his family, Jon maybe in thei minds being the "cause" of Sansa/Rhaegar's family's destruction) or they posit an unwanted marriage parallel of Sansa-Tyrion and Elia-Rhaegar? There might be more, but I can't think of anything else?

B)

When you say "resemblance", do you mean to say Sara Snow x Jacaerys Velaryon as a true thing that happened, or this story of such meant to parallel the couple of Lyanna and Rhaegar? Perhaps it's the element of her also not having any hope to marry and--pursue a longer and enduring relationship due to the political circumstances--an unavailable noble man, like with Lyanna and Rhaegar? That Jace comes from a Targaryen royal lineage and Sara from a Stark one? Or is it that this ship is in close proximity to the Pact of Ice and Fire, which some people espouse had to do with the actual prophecy Aegon I is said to have had and maybe told to Torrhen Stark, the King who Knelt, that got him to surrender, and thus Creagn and Jace agreed to have their childrne marry--thus being some sort of precursor and affirmation of Lyanna-Rhaegar narratively & metaphorically "destined" to shape the history of their society throught their own singular action? That Torrhen might have already known, as others say? Which all, I believe , is an argument meant for Jon being the Prince that was promised?

Bc these latter two "ran off" bec their personalities and personal goals/values didn't jive with the "obligations" both had; those that were like stones set against their own and those around them (Lyanna with her marriage and the entire woman-must-obey thing/her being found out about being the Knight of the Laughing Tree and thus punished vs Rhaegar and the prophecy against the legacy of his house/wanting to build a different Westeros from his crazy father through said prophecy, to "fix" Westeros and/or the world in a way Dany is seemingly supposed to).

Whereas Sara Snow and Jace either don't have such obligations (Sara) or don't have such relationships or regards to their obligations (Jace). Unlike Lyanna Stark, Sara Snow--if she ever even existed. I don't think she ever did, Mushroom is Mushroom and was never there to witness what he said happened--was reported to be a bastard girl, who Cregan, her supposed brother, would never be expected to confront anyone about or for if she were to have pursued a relationship for. Precisely because she was a bastard girl who no one could leverage like Lyanna's father tried to when he betrothed her to Robert Baratheon.

Rhaegar had to leave Elia with his father when said madman ordered Elia and their kids to return to KL/the Red Keep while Rhaegar was away; he also had several "engagements" that Jace did not have a like to before the war that Rhaegar was compelled to act on, presumably for the world and not just his own father, wife, etc. Jace was just living with Rhaenyra before the war, anticipating marrying a girl he had been close woth for ages since childhood, and he was barely in his own majority when he died not so late after the war broke out.

Jace's story, unlike Rhaegar, was that he was suspected as a bastard/not his father's son and that the Westerosi stigma against bastards and their character and ability to have loyalty is unsettled by his utter devotion to his family and mother's claim--in other words, he was all in both because of and despite the logic of those rumors, ironic bec of later when Rhaenyra's compelled and unethically chooses to arrest the dragonseeds when her council basically demanded that punishment--in a way, Jace's work was…troubled by this, even with Jeyne Arryn, the Manderlys, and Cregan Stark pulling through later but too late.

In other words, the stakes are too different and the characters are not so similar for Jace to act like Rhaegar or have the room & circumstance to do so. Whether you think Rhaegar was chaotic good, chaotic evil, or just pathetic. This is also not me saying that Rhaegar wasn't devoted to his family/family's legacy, but that his motivations were layered and has a chance of being more about, again, saving the world. The Pact of Ice and Fire was bt Cregan and Jace also, again, was for their kids to marry, not Jace to marry a Stark bastard girl and disobey his mother at a time when she needed him the most.

What exactly are we meant to take away from Jace being with Sara Snow for the narrative apart and what does this contribute or explain exegetically or diegetically apart from it from the pattern of in-world speculation in F&B? Yes they share those that I listed, but they hardly have similar narratives or "points"?

[jackoshadows]

Can I just ask because every now and then I see these ‘eww incest’ posts on the tag. If fictional incest is so taboo and wrong, if it’s a line that cannot be crossed, then how can one be okay with a story set in a world where the author has described Alysanne and Jaehaerys as a  ‘great Targaryen love story’? Shouldn’t he be describing that as one of the most disgusting Targaryen love stories given their platonic love for each other as children and siblings clearly turned into romantic and sexual love at some point?

Clearly biology and science and sexual attraction works differently in GRRM’s magical fantasy world.

Why are there love songs being written about Aemon the Dragonknight and Queen Naerys in Westeros? These two are also siblings. Here is Sansa talking about her great love for Joffrey and comparing it to the love between siblings Naerys and Aemon:

I love him, Father, I truly truly do, I love him as much as Queen Naerys loved Prince Aemon the Dragonknight, as much as Jonquil loved Ser Florian. I want to be his queen and have his babies.” - Sansa, AGoT

This is Naerys and Aemon

Naerys loved Prince Aemon the most out of her two brothers, as he knew how to make her laugh. Aemon was also more like Naerys in character, while Prince Aegon was not.

By the way, I made a post the other day about how Jon/Arya is a foil to Joffrey/Sansa and left this one out. Here is another example of  foreshadowing, where Sansa proclaims that her love for Joffrey is the same as that of Naerys for Aemon when in reality Joffrey is an abusive sadist. Meanwhile Aemon and Naerys’ love for each other as children mirror that of Jon and Arya’s and Jon even cosplays as Aemon the dragonknight as a child.

And Arya…he missed her even more than Robb, skinny little thing that she was, all scraped knees and tangled hair and torn clothes, so fierce and willful. Arya never seemed to fit, no more than he had…yet she could always make Jon smile. He would give anything to be with her now, to muss up her hair once more and watch her make a face, to hear her finish a sentence with him. - Jon, AGoT

Now, I can understand if one is against fictional incest and do not want to engage in it. That’s totally fine. However, why criticize other readers for engaging with fictional romantic incestual ships that are prevalent in this fictional world? When the author is leading us somewhere and we as readers are only following where the author is taking us, why use real world taboos to call out readers because incest is wrong.

And by the way Arya is a skinny little 9/10 years old in ACoK/ASoS and Gendry is likely 14/15 when he meets her in ACoK.  Jon Snow keeps referring to her as small and skinny, a child he cannot imagine in Ramsay’s bed. And yet we talk about the romantic nature of Arya and Gendry’s interactions because the author has indeed written in the romantic chemistry there between a 9/10 year old and a 14/15 year old. Why is that okay but incest is the line that should not be crossed?

I repeat, pretty much every major ship in this series is problematic by real world standards. Sansa/Sandor shippers (Sansa is 11 when 27 year old Sandor falls for her) calling Rhaegar/Lyanna creepy and Rhaegar a paedophile must be the funniest thing yet in this fandom. How self-unaware does one have to be to not recognize the double standards there?

Also, note to Jonsa shippers. If your reason for taking all the book material and foreshadowing from Jon and Arya’s canonical relationship and handing it over to Sansa is because ‘Jon and Sansa are not close’  then stop using Aemon/Naerys, Alysanne/Jaehaerys etc to justify your crackship. These characters were siblings who grew up loving each other.

And besides, if one has to go for an incestual relationship where both characters are not close, there is always the superior Jon and Daenerys. Jon and Dany, who have actual canonical, textual foreshadowing for meeting and falling in love, actual parallels as leaders, are close in age and maturity, have had sexual partners, who have loved and lost, who look beyond class and gender, have the same interest to help people, are each other’s type etc.

A blue flower grew from a chink in a wall of ice, and filled the air with sweetness…

Jon and Sansa, despite growing up together, are indifferent to each other for a reason. They are polar opposites. Jon can’t spare a single thought of concern for Sansa’s status and whereabouts, Sansa admits to forgetting that Jon exists. Jon disdains girly girls like Sansa and Sansa holds bastards as being less than high born nobles. Jon didn’t give a damn about Sansa over 5 books and vice versa and that’s not going to suddenly change in the last book because Sansa’s beauty is so overpowering or whatever. He is not there to give Sansa her Disney princess endgame and that’s not the story GRRM is writing.

[thelustybraavosimaid]

George mentioned in a recent interview that Rhaegar knew of the prophecy, but there is not really much indication that he was "obsessed" with it or that that was the only reason why he did what he did with Lyanna.

It's hard to garner such information when in the official World of Ice and Fire app, it was said that he died whispering Lyanna's name:

Not only that, but George described him as a "love-struck prince" at one point:

At last I was able to ask him the question I had sent for the tombola. I have always been fascinated by how ASOIAF embodies the theories put forward by Acemoglu and Robinson about countries with extractive institutions (which hamper development). So my question was: Why do you think the political institutions in the Seven Kingdoms are so weak? His answer: the Kingdom was unified with dragons, so the Targaryen's flaw was to create an absolute monarchy highly dependent on them, with the small council not designed to be a real check and balance. So, without dragons it took a sneeze, a wildly incompetent and megalomaniac king, a love struck prince, a brutal civil war, a dissolute king that didn't really know what to do with the throne and then chaos. Interesting answer.

[Source]

Ser Barristan said that Rhaegar had a sense of melancholy about him, a sense of doom:

"Perhaps so, Your Grace." Whitebeard paused a moment. "But I am not certain it was in Rhaegar to be happy."

"You make him sound so sour," Dany protested.

"Not sour, no, but...there was a melancholy to Prince Rhaegar, a sense..." The old man hesitated again.

"Say it," she urged. "A sense...?"

"...of doom. He was born in grief, my queen, and that shadow hung over him all his days." (Daenerys IV, ASoS)

...and yet Ned has heard it said that it was Rhaegar himself who named the tower the "tower of joy."

Ned had pulled the tower down afterward, and used its bloody stones to build eight cairns upon the ridge. It was said that Rhaegar had named that place the tower of joy, but for Ned it was a bitter memory. (Edward X, AGoT)

This would be in a similar way, I think, to how Arya could always make the oft-described "sullen" Jon smile.

And Arya…he missed her even more than Robb, skinny little thing that she was, all scraped knees and tangled hair and torn clothes, so fierce and willful. Arya never seemed to fit, no more than he had…yet she could always make Jon smile. (Jon III, AGoT)

She got him, in a way that Lyanna probably understood Rhaegar.

Ser Barristan also mentioned that Viserys was the one who was most like the Mad King, not Rhaegar:

"Some truths are hard to hear. Robert was a...a good knight...chivalrous, brave...he spared my life, and the lives of many others...Prince Viserys was only a boy, it would have been years before he was fit to rule, and...forgive me, my queen, but you asked for truth...even as a child, your brother Viserys oft seemed to be his father's son, in ways that Rhaegar never did."

"His father's son?" Dany frowned. "What does that mean?"

The old knight did not blink. "Your father is called 'the Mad King' in Westeros. Has no one ever told you?" (Daenerys VI, ASoS)