#Garth is never there

[televisionlassie]

Leave Roy ALONE

[foolsocracy]

paradise island hang out

[kinsey3furry300]

Which episodic YA series fucked you up?

as In, what's the first one you can remember genuinely frightening or upsetting you?

There will be a second bracket for series I could not fit in this poll (Percy Jackson, Noughts and Crosses, Maximum Ride, Cherub, Mortal Engines, Artimis Fowl, Shapeshifter, Deptford Mice, Mistborn ect.)

[thefableddestiel]

Gay love can pierce through the veil of death and save the day

[mysterycitrus]

i think isolating the bats from their teams and external support systems is like….. functionally bad. like wdym red hood is on dicks speeddial but his actual soulmate donna troy isn’t. why is everyone in gotham. why do these people have no friends

[donnatroia]

listen I know it’s kind of corny and inaccurate to act like every single person in the dc universe knows each other and is besties but it IS endlessly funny to me to follow the web of connections and see how many degrees removed from each other everyone is.

like look at the arrowfam okay. ollie and dinah are together, ollie is homoerotic best friends with hal, dinah is homoerotic best friends with babs. roy is dating dick, has a kid with jade, and is basically an adoptive father to both grant emerson and rose wilson. connor is dating kyle and is constantly followed around by eddie fyers. mia is friends with a lot of the second gen teen titans kids, had an on-again-off-again thing going on with steph for a while, and is currently dating sienna. emiko is besties with courtney and some of the other recent teen titans. sin has a small army of protective aunts from the birds of prey. the real question is how far does it go before ollie puts a cap on the number of people who are invited to family brunch on sundays

[seasononesam]

Stackednatural- 241/327

Party On, Garth (7x18) March 30th, 2012

[floralovebot]

i know there are only like five of us but i feel like garth stans really don't talk enough about how left out he feels with the titans. dick and wally are Best Friends. donna and roy are on and off again. dick and donna are too much to explain. on average, roy is close with at least one of dick's siblings. dick donna and wally all go on to be in the new teen titans. garth isn't Close with any other titans but the originals

and it's this thing where,,, it's not his Fault yknow? he's not mean or spiteful or creepy or anything that would warrant them not liking him as much. he joins in on their jokes, he risks his life, he shares his feelings, he does everything that he knows friends do. but just the virtue of him being atlantean and them being land dwellers ruins everything. he Can't spend more time with them, he doesn't understand their culture, he will always choose atlantis.

they'll always be his friends but he can never truly be with them or form deeper bonds. he'll always be the last one to know what's going on, the last one they call, a complete shadow and afterthought.

and sure there's a part of him that knows this, that feels bitter and lonely. but he can't even be that mad at them because he does the same thing. the titans are never his first thought, he never calls them first, he doesn't reach out and ask if they're okay, they're always the last ones to know what happened to him. the titans are such a huge part of his life but they're barely in it.

there's just something so inherently lonely about garth that i feel most dc writers don't understand. they just don't get it. they don't get what it's like for this boy who was all alone, never had parents or a family, suddenly being taken in and having to act like he knows how to be a son, a friend, a partner. meeting kids his own age and wanting to bond with them so bad, having to watch as they all get closer to each other and leave him behind, not being able to do anything about it. never being taken seriously, always the last choice... garth man.....

[farshootergotme]

In which order (from oldest to youngest) would you put the fab five (aka. Dick, Donna, Roy, Wally and Garth)?

[haveyouthoughtaboutcomicstoday]

Cursed by Aquaman’s complete lack of fandom. I was thinking about Arthur Jr.’s haunting of the narrative all last week and had no one to talk to about it. The impact his death had on Arthur’s character as well as his relationship with Mera until the new52–they never recovered from it long term. Current Aquaman is lacking in Arthur’s internal conflict department. He used to be so messed up and now we get *checks notes* Jeremy Adams.

[alphatsar]

But am I wrong tho?

[givemewallywestorgivemedeath]

No but why is Karen and Wally bonding over being the only not rich kids on the team everything—

It's literally giving me life. The Titans, Teen or otherwise, have a serious lack of grounded characters (and not in a 'no powers = grounded' way).

Wally has always been that character. He's always been the everyday, average normal guy living among billionaires royalty and demigods. (Which is wild because he should not be that normal with his power set and abilities)

Karen and Mal were also grounded characters in the og Teen Titans (which, again, was really needed cause Dick did shit like handing strangers thousands of dollars to keep quiet about his friend's antics and Roy went off and did shit like buying a bar on a whim at 16 and Donna and Garth had no concept of money or consequences) but unfortunately the series never really explored that aspect of their characters.

But now??? Now when Roy complains that Wally doesn't have a helipad at his house Wally doesn't have to 'Jim the camera'. Wally has a whole ass person to text this shit to!!! Karen can Snapchat Wally about how Donna thinks healthcare comes from purple laser beams and has zero concept of insurance. They aren't alone!!!

And honestly I love it so much.

[arealtrashact]

hey remember when i said its good garth ennis isnt in the writers room? i felt his presence in the writers room for this episode. he wasnt physically there but spiritually? he was there

Wild to see a show start off extremely determined on separating itself from the original source material only to fall back on it when the writers realized that it only blew up because of out of context clips going viral.

[artbyblastweave]

When I’m in a really bad headspace I’ll reread The Punisher: The End by Garth Ennis and Richard Corbin. This does not help

[covertblizzard]

Teen Titans Chronology

Era 1: Superhero Names & Funky Nicknames

The Brave and the Bold (1955) #54 The Brave and the Bold (1955) #60 Showcase #59 Teen Titans (1966) #1-20 The Brave and the Bold (1955) #83 Teen Titans (1966) #21-22

This is the peak silly era. Goofy nicknames, (mostly) goofy one-off villains, occasional team-up, etc. As far as I'm aware, none of their real names are ever mentioned within their own title and it's just their superhero names.

It starts with Robin, Kid Flash, Aqualad (in the first Brave and Bold), with Wonder Girl being the first addition when they are officially first called the Teen Titans (in the second Brave and Bold), so I'm counting the Fab Foursome (Cool Quartet? Fantabulous Foursome?) of them as the starting point. They're a team up to #18 with occasional guests from Speedy (#4 - with notes that there were an "avalanche of mail" asking for his inclusion, #11), Beast Boy (#6 - rejected by the Teen Titans and apparently previously the Doom Patrol for not having a guardian's permission slip, interesting note that he already had movie offers here), and Starfire (#18 - definitely not who you're thinking of and instead a Russian boy).

Issue #19 is when they become "Fab-Four-Sometime Five" where Roy joins and Garth takes a break, so the main four changed. There are then two more team ups with Jericho (#20 - also not who you're thinking of but some boy name Joshua) and with Hawk and Dove (#21).

I think only Mad Mod became a long-term villain (?) but the list includes: Mr Twister, the Astounding Separated Man, Beast-God of Xochatan, Akkuru, Ding Dong Daddy Dowd (Demon Dragster), Diablo, The Ant (less villain and more blackmailed by Mr Krask), Mr Baltzer, Mad Mod, Honey Bun (and a spy Karl Larner), Captain Tiger, The Scorcher, The Gargoyle (who makes a reappearance in #35), Captain Rumble, The Dimensional Caper (from Dimension X), Le Blanc, Punch (Sylvester Sepastopol), Fat Cat.

Era 2: Real Names, New Teammates, Mr Jupiter, and Solo Storylines

Teen Titans (1966) #22-31 The Brave and the Bold (1955) #94 Teen Titans (1966) #32-34 World's Finest Comics #205 Teen Titans (1966) #35-39 The Brave and the Bold (1955) #102 Teen Titans (1966) #40-43

This part of the story starts to have a bit more personality and it is a lot more character-driven as opposed to (short) plot-driven stories. Their real names are finally used and they're shown to hangout as civilians and not just superheroes.

This starts at the end of #22 when Donna Troy is given a name, a backstory (one of many), a new apartment, a roommate Sharon, and a makeover. Dick and Wally was previously named in #83 of The Brave and the Bold, but Roy gets named in #24. In a way, this makes Donna feel very much like the living center of the Titans for me, her development begins with the Titans and she's intrinsically tied to it very personally (and this also feels reflected in how Garth views Donna as the "TITANS FOREVER" among all of them). After all, at this point, there's no separate comics she is in unlike the other 4 main titans. She is also the only single character that appears in every single comic with no exception (other than the very first, but they weren't known as Teen Titans then either).

There aren't so much guests as much as two new permanent members - Lilith who joins right before Mr Jupiter comes into the picture in #25 and Mal who joins right after in #26. During this time, 6 of them are mostly all there and are led and trained by Mr Jupiter. The longest disappearance is when Dick goes to college (from #25-32 except for a single appearance in #28) and occasional disappearance when they stay behind to take care of Mr Jupiter's lab (sometimes it is unexplained but I chalk most disappearance up to this). From #26 onwards, all but 6 issues are not related to Mr Jupiter (#28-29 led by Garth, #31 led by Wally, #34 and #42 led by Donna, and #43). This era also seems to establish Wally (and Donna) as de-facto leader when Dick is not around.

All other guests are really more part-time members such as Hank and Don who do their summer stint from #25-#30, Gnarrk who first appears in #32-33 and comes back in #39, and Garth who appears in #28-29 and #40.

For the first time (as far as I'm aware), a known villain gets brought into the story - Ocean Master (Orm) and an alien leader Mofo in #28-29 with Garth going after him. This part also established the easy-to-get-into-fights, easy-to-get-out-of-fights (among themselves) dynamics that I associate with the Titans. They start to place more importance on their insecurities and friendship.

There are also 2 main "friends get brainwashed" (for extended period) type storyline during this period of time (which later seems to become quite commonplace among the Titans): once with Donna (#34 which Wally doesn't see) and once with Garth (#40).

This is also the only era which has quite a lot of additional separate solo storylines. It start with Donna if you count "The Origin of Wonder Girl" in #22 (although it's kind of more like an additional story where everyone appears), and then Wally and Garth (with Tula) in #30. Garth (#30, #35, #36, #38) and Lilith (#36, #38, #41, #43) have the most with 4 each, Roy (#35, #38) and Hank&Don (#31, #39) have two each, and Mal (#35) and Dick (#36) have one each (like Donna and Wally). Superboy (young Clark) actually also has two - one with Dick (#36) and one with young Ollie (#37) that doesn't even have any of the Titans in it.

Crucially, contrary to how modern comics love to portray Batman and Robin's view on the Teen Titans, Batman actually fully supports the Teen Titans in the original and has never been shown to do otherwise almost at all. In fact, he is the one with the most team-ups with the Teen Titans and the team-ups almost always happen because he needs helps "relating to the teens" and he specifically calls on them, with full respect for them (even purposely allowing Wally and Donna to punch him real hard that one time to solidify their cover). The only mentor who does show disapproval is actually Aquaman (in Era 3), who does so because Garth gets mysteriously sick which he blames on the Teen Titans (sort of half-correctly).

Interestingly, up to this point there are actually more team appearances of what I'm calling Alternative 5 or Alt5 (Wally, Donna, Roy, Lilith Mal) than of Fab5 (Dick, Wally, Donna, Garth, Roy). In fact, up to this point there were 12 appearances of Alt5 over 5 appearances of Fab5. This is mostly because Roy and Garth actually have very little team-ups because Roy became a permanent basically the same time that Garth stopped being a permanent member.

Titans Villains (other than Ocean Master hat one time) in this era: Hell's Hawks, Harry Tout, Dr Pauling, Councilman Buckminster (Santa Claus), Demoness possessing Magda Drachwyck (Miss Wickersham), Calibano Della Loggia (x2), Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse, Black Earl of Moray, Captain Barstow's Phantom, Lord Beetle

Era 3: When Fab5 was Defined, More Teammates, Teen Titans West, and Splitting Up

Teen Titans (1966) #44-53 The Brave and the Bold (1955) #149

There was a more than 3 years gap from the last issue #43 in February 1973 to issue #44 in November 1976 which translated to a 2 year in-comic hiatus of the Teen Titans. There's also a change of regular writer from (mostly) Bob Haney to Bob Rozakis. All this culminated in a change in tone of the characters being a bit more aggressive and antagonistic towards each other, especially with Roy (note: Snowbirds Don't Fly happened in 1971 so it's not because that occurred in between the break since it actually happened before the break). They fight a lot more this era and the storylines are longer and bleed more into one another.

Another obvious change is that Wally is shown to be way more into Donna than before (in his thoughts especially) instead of their more casual flirting. Wally does eventually confess to Donna who rejects him in this era. The other "official" relationships are Mal/Karen and Lilith/Gnarrk (funnily because Mal/Lilith was a thing for a bit).

In story, Mr Jupiter decides to close shop (unknown reason) and so they broke up, with Mal taking care of the labs and the rest pursuing their individual careers instead as they agreed upon (but Mal is unhappy about). This... doesn't really make sense because I'm not sure what "individual career" Donna has, but never mind.

Lilith is no longer in the main team (later explained that she settled in the West Coast with Gnarrk which is very contradictory to her last statement in #43 that the Teen Titans is her family). Garth comes back from #45 when he is mysteriously summoned by Mal's horn and it's like he never left. He wants to resign in #51 because his insecurities making him physically sick, but he agrees to finish the mission and they all ended up disbanding anyway. Karen appears first in #45 as Mal's girlfriend and joins as Bumblebee in #49, but Duela joins the team first in #46. Because of these lineup changes, Fab5 appearances started to catch up to Alt5 until eventually Alt5 (15 appearances) just barely edges out Fab5 (13 appearances). Interestingly, Dick-Wally-Donna-Roy-Mal actually end up appearing most (17 appearances).

They (it's honestly mostly Dick, Wally, and Donna) discuss the idea of a new headquarters first suggested by Donna in #45 (like I said, she's very much the living centre of the Titans). Dick makes the decision (because he is Leader-Man and Bruce is funding it) to have their headquarters as a restaurant front, Gabriel's Horn (named after Mal's horn given by the angel Gabriel in #45), run by Mal and Roy (the jobless duo apparently) in #46 and they set it up in #49. Mal and Roy also started forming the rock band The Great Frog (a job!) in #45 which plays in their restaurant.

Teen Titans West first meet up and is established in #50 with some familiar faces (Gar, Hank, Don, Lilith, Gnarrk) and some complete newbies (Bette, Ch'al) to the roster. Issues #51 and #52 have the East and West team up, resulting in basically every Titans ever joining with the exception of Tula (but then again, at this point she only appeared in Garth solo story and never in the main storyline). At the end of which, they have a big feast (sponsored by Dick) and decided to part ways to improve and work towards eventually becoming the future Justice League (as they were always meant to).

The final story #53 establishes their origin and formation story which includes Roy, but had Roy basically saying he wanted to be involved only whenever he wanted and not permanently (ahem commitment issues), establishing Fab5 as the clear founders of the Teen Titans in the last issue.

There is a third "friends get brainwashed/used" (for extended period) type storyline with Lilith (#50-52), except she's not evil, but her powers are manipulated for evil. With Duela, there is also the first instance of villain's children in the Titans (in future there is Joey and Rose most prominently), setting up the stage for Titans raising villain's children. They actually brought Two-Face in to visit Duela at least once (right after a crime too???) which is... interesting?

This era has many more appearances of known villains including Dr Light, The Fiddler, Two-Face, and Mr Esper (Captain Calamity). The final issue is where Antithesis first appear (he is a recurring villain or at least comes back in future issues), and the remaining unimportant ones are: The Wreckers, Flamesplasher (x2), Sizematic (x2), Darklight (x2), and Rocket Rollers led by Brian the Brain.

Finally, there are some unexplained mysteries. Where the hell did Mal's horn go since it went missing in #49? Who is the blonde "Little Queen" that Garth meets from #36 (because I don't think it's Nirka McDuff from #40)? Who are Lilith's parents? What's up with Mr Jupiter? Is he Donna's dad (#35)? Do they ever make use of the possibly haunted mansion and fortune they inherited in #43? Why did Mr Jupiter not bother to make Roy, Wally, and Lilith face their fears (#38)? Does he think redheads have no fears? Are we going to address the fact that Lilith is apparently Juliet reborn (#35-36) and decided to give up Romeo (who she was very enamored by for a while) for Gnarrk?

To be continued~

Some Statistics (For Fun)

Most to least appearances, we have:

Donna (60) - only missing from the very first story before they were coined the Teen Titans

Wally (58) - missing from 3 stories all during Mr Jupiter era (twice unknown reasons and once because he is watching the lab)

Dick (54) - missing from 6 issues for his college

Roy (41)

Garth (37)

Mal (28)

Lilith (22)

Mr Jupiter (12) - not a Titan but I was curious so I counted him

Hank and Don (11)

Karen and Duela (8)

Gnarrk (5)

Gar (4)

Bette and Ch'al (3)

Tula (1)

Most to least trio appearances (within Fab5):

Dick-Wally-Donna (50)

Wally-Donna-Roy (38) - the love triangle lmao

Dick-Donna-Roy (33)

Dick/Donna-Wally-Garth (32)

Dick-Donna-Garth / Dick-Wally-Roy trio (31) - DWDG and DWDR limiting factor

Wally/Donna-Garth-Roy (14) - Roy/Wally-Donna-Mal/Lilith have more than this (25, 23, 19, 18)

Dick-Garth-Roy (13) - Fab5 limiting factor

For quartets, Dick-Wally-Donna-Garth (DWDG) quartet (31) ends up exactly equal to Dick-Wally-Donna-Roy (DWDR) quartet (31).

Special note that because of Lilith separation in Era 3, even though Garth is brought back, the Rebirth "OG" line up (Fab 5 + Lilith) actually only has 3 appearances together. On the other hand, Alt 5 + Dick have 9 appearances (but no Garth). World's Finest line up (Fab5 + Karen) have 7 appearances but only 4 of which Karen is actually Bumblebee and fighting with them, while the Silver Age Final line up (Fab5 + Mal) has the most with 10 appearances.

Ultimately, Lilith does still make more sense to me than Karen to balance the team with more girls, because she definitely was there earlier, had more appearance than Karen, and also doesn't have the additional association of joining because of Mal since she predates Mal. That said, the girl with the most Fab5 teamup might actually be Duela who also has 7 appearances with Fab5, all of which she is on their side (although half their issue was trust which wouldn't make so much sense if she was with them from the beginning). The person with most Fab5 teamup is unquestionably Mal though (10). It's curious to see what is more "valid" but my personal opinion is that there is no point in making a Fab6 just let leave it be and acknowledge it as product of its time.

If you want to have a look at the data out of curiosity, it's here.

[seasononesam]

supernatural meme: (5/6) side characters | Garth Fitzgerald 

I mean, hunting – I figured I’d be dead before I’m 40.You know, go out young and pretty. But now I’ve got a great wife, great kids.I guess...sometimes things work out.