#ExMormon

[oxytocinatrocities]

A comic I drew about leaving the Mormon church.

Can also apply to other things. Ex. constitutional originalism in the US

[inbabylontheywept]

so i left the mormon church as a teenager (15ish? 16?), but stayed in attendance until i was 20. i was pretty up front about the whole deciding-it-wasnt-true process with my bishop, who frankly took it really well, but it wasnt like i pulled all 150 ward members aside and had a heart to heart with them. anyway, i didnt believe, so at 19 i didnt go on a mission, and while some people in the ward were totally fine with that, others werent. and there was one woman in her late 50s who pulled me aside one day to interrogate me why i hadnt gone on a mission.

"the duty of every young man" she said.

and the thing is, im autistic. and a lot of people assume that when youre autistic, your social skills just arent very good. but thats not exactly true. your Be Polite skills are kind of eh, and they tend to stay that way, but as a sort of survival mechanism your Be Rude skills become amazing simply because you get put in tons of situations where your choices are to Function or Be Polite. and no one can choose Be Polite forever. the world demands function, it merely encourages politeness.

anyway, it can really catch neurotypicals by surprise, because hey, heres this kind of awkward, graceless guy, who stumbles over his words a lot and is very apologetic. hes probably a huge pushover. but i'm only like that when we're playing The Polite Game, because i am frankly kind of bad at it. but when its time to play The Rude Game, i go fucking ham and asking about the not-going-on-a-mission thing is Super Rude. so i said:

"sister hadlock... they wont let me go because i lit-er-ally cannot stop sucking dicks. i dont know why, its just so, so hard."

*dramatic pause*

"also - its very difficult to stop."

anyway, it almost killed her. i think she'd expected to just kind of steamroll me for the entire conversation, but the answer crushed her soul. instead of continuing her interrogation she made a noise like a horse drowning in a bog and left.

to add insult to injury, she went to the bishop after that, thinking he'd chew me out for being an ass, but instead he chewed her out for not minding her own business. then she went to my parents after that, who basically went "yeah, babylon was pretty rude. but youre also pretty rude. what are you, mad that he's better at it than you?"

i really loved that ward.

[lizardho]

When I came out, I was SO scared I was gonna get disowned. I wrote a letter to my parents, sent it to their emails, put a physical copy on the counter, and left the house for a few hours to give them time. In that time I tried coffee for the first time, which was a dreadful idea, and got all jittery. I kept waiting for a text or something but nothing happened.

After a few hours, I didn’t hear back from them so I went home. My parents were home and had stacked a bunch of groceries on top of the letter without opening it. They said “hi” and I said “hi” and went down stairs to the basement. I held my dog and panicked about what to do. My sister, who knew that I had written them a letter of great importance, told me they hadn’t read it yet. She also told me she could ask them to do so. I consented to this and stayed in the basement. A few minutes later my dad knocked on the door and poked his soft smooth little nerd head in and said “hey buddy” and I started crying so hard I almost vomited. He came over and gave me a BIG hug and said that it was gonna be OK, he was OK with this, he knew it must have been hard but he was here for me. He told me he and my mom had already talked years before they had me about how if they had to pick between their faith and their child they’d pick their child. It was a very sweet moment. I came out to my mom later that evening and we were both bawling the whole time.

The day after I came out to my parents, I came out to my brother @inbabylontheywept at a Mexican restaurant and he took it like a champ. That evening my mom took me for a walk and looked almost angry - she said she wanted to make sure that I didn’t use being a woman as an excuse to not go to grad school. I told her I wouldn’t and she instantly looked relieved and happier.

My dad, on the other hand, seemed to struggle with it. He kept asking me if I had a boyfriend, and I told him I did not. He kept asking me if I wanted to go clothes shopping with him and I did not. He kept asking me if I would let him go to some of my shows, and I had NO idea what he was talking about.

Finally, 6 months after coming out, of awkward misgendering and questions that didn’t make sense from my dad, he excitedly pokes his soft smooth little nerd head into my bedroom again and says “I found a movie about Your People.” My people. I was absolutely bewildered, but he was so excited and I knew he had been trying SO hard so I watched it with him. It was The Birdcage, and it was amazing. It also was revelatory in that I finally realized why my initially-supportive father seemed to be having such a hard time with my pronouns and stuff - he didn’t know what the difference between trans and doing drag was. After the movie he again asked if I would invite him to one of my shows, and I said, “Hey dad, you know how about half the world is women?” And he said “yeah,” and I said “Well, see, I’m on that half now. I’m not doing drag.” And it was like a switch flipped in his brain. He was like “omg that’s so easy? I was so confused about what to call you when?”

Anyway, my parents are charming and my family has been so kind and patient with me, I like sharing the stories of my little wins with them.

[xmo-rmon]

“Inseminary”

or “Lockpick to the Priesthood” or “Come Unto Me” or “Pearl Necklace of Great Price” or “Faith is Like a Little Seed”

Authentic stolen holy text, Near Clear silicone, gold pigment.

I went to the mormon church’s website, looked up their views on homosexuality, noted the scriptures they referenced, ripped them by hand out of the bible and book of mormon I stole from their chapel, and then mixed them into a silicone dildo of my own design like confetti. A dildo which will of course be used for homosexual purposes (with non-lubricated condoms and water based lube, for safety).

I’ve wanted to try dildo making for literally over a decade. I don’t have any fancy equipment like a 3D printer or a vacuum chamber, I made the sculpt by hand, and I fucked up a lot along the way, but all that being said I’m proud of what I was able to accomplish and I learned a lot. I put in more gold than I meant to, but honestly, it was meant to represent scripture’s gilded edges, and as it turned out, it looks really beautiful or quite filthy depending on the lighting, which feels entirely appropriate for scripture.

It was hard to read all of those verses. But as I tore them up I bathed them in the intention to take words that were meant to inflict queer pain wherever they go, and say “Actually, I pull those words out when I want some queer pleasure.” Build joy where they want you to have it the least.

Read about/donate to the Timpanogos tribe, for whom brigham young sent out an “extermination order”

LandBack

[the-jesus-pill]

Teaching children thinking bad thoughts about someone is the same thing as murdering that person is fucked up. 

Thought crime doesn’t exist. No one has ever been harmed or killed by someone thinking negative thoughts about them. 

You know what has harmed people though? Teaching them they are evil for things they can’t control. Especially those who have intrusive thoughts. 

Here’s for everyone who has been taught their thoughts make them evil.

Intrusive thoughts are not your secret desires. 

They are involuntary. 

You don’t need to be ashamed of them. 

They will pass.

You are not committing taboo. 

No one can read your mind.

No one will ever know what’s in your thoughts unless you feel like telling them.

No one can judge you for what you are thinking, whether voluntarily or involuntarily.

Your thoughts are private

You are not a bad person.

[hulk-janitor]

My contribution to the My Favorite Ship Dynamic trend.

[joanofexys]

ballerina farm devastates me because y'all don't know how many girls i know who are her. how i almost was her. how so many girls i know were almost her. how many i know that will still become her. mormon girls, who, despite all their ambitions, will give up every one of their dreams for a man and a "traditional" lifestyle they were taught they needed, and call it equal. who will insist that he made sacrifices too. that though it's not what she wanted she's happy. being raised as a mormon girl in utah, or being a young woman converting to mormonism, you're taught that no matter where you go or what you achieve that you'll never be nothing more than your future husband. that your only purpose is to be a mother and a wife. and that full ride to julliard never mattered. and it never will. because you're a wife now. and you have eight kids to take care of. and a ballet studio that never came to be because it's a schoolroom. and your husband won't pull his weight even when you're fainting and bedridden from exhaustion. and your husband refuses to leave the room for your interview. and you admit to your epidural like it's a secret and it's something to be ashamed of. and you admit that this was never the life you wanted, this was never what you planned, and you still insist your happy. i know dozens of little girls who dreamed of being ballerinas. doctors. scientists. singers. movie stars. lawyers. authors. astronauts. olympians. i know that those little girls are now young women who go to church every sunday. wives. mothers. homemakers. caretakers. nuturers. fulfilling their heavenly duty. their obligation to their husband. i know a dozen hannah neeleman's. i know her because i almost was her. i know her because i see her in my mother and my grandmother and her mother too. and right now she's an internet trend who will disappear for most people in a couple months. you probably never learned her name. but i see hannah neeleman in every girl i grew up going to church with. in all the 18 year old wives and 20 year old first time moms. and it will be hard to forget the way her face still lights up whenever she gets to dance. feet moving along the hard wood of the schoolroom floor. and she will be someone more than her husband, more than a mother or a wife.

[nobetafortomorrowedie]

It really bothers me when people describe the way I grew up as "sheltered" when in reality I was not being sheltered or protected. I was intentionally confused. I was kept in the dark. My reality was being controlled.

[imsoglitter]

I don't know what atheist needs to hear this but when someone tells you they're a cult survivor, telling them that all religions are cults is both untrue and unhelpful 😌💕

[crazyexmormon]

i actually think ppl dealing with religious trauma by having an edgy atheist phase is fine. I actually think maybe the kid who makes sorta cringey jokes at the expense of a cult they're trapped in should be allowed to do that. Yes I roll my eyes when I see people calling it "the book of moron" but I also remember being fourteen and seeing someone do that and how incredibly powerful it felt so I think maybe it being a bit cringe in retrospect is fine.

[wetassspossum]

i feel like having religious trauma from mormonism is so fucking lame. like at least other branches of christianity have cool imagery like rosaries and stained glass windows. wtf am i supposed to romanticize, Joseph Smith? Family home evening? That one very specific painting of Jesus that every mormon knows?

[lizardho]

I think the worst day I had as a missionary is hard to pin down – for comedy bad day stories, I like to talk about my cute companion who ripped three pairs of pants in one day because his ass was so fat. Literally, two in the morning, we missed 3 appointments in the afternoon because people kept cancelling on us, and we ended up far away from home visiting “Less Actives” in the downtown area. We find a family who says we can come in once their dad get home, and we sit down to wait for the dad to get in and RIIIPPP goes the third pair of slacks this man wore that day. I hand him my suit jacket and he wraps it around his waist like a bashful adolescent who just started his period at an inconvenient time. We catch a ride home on a bus and ended up home an hour early. He cried for like 30 minutes while stitching up his pants, and I got to rest a lot more than expected that day. We ordered a 4-cheese pizza and went to bed early that night, having walked probably 5-6 miles that day knocking doors and getting turned away.

Another bad day was the day the Mexico City Temple was re-opening. It was a funny experience for me because the evening before I was contacted by the Mission President and told that an elder in our district had confessed some serious sins to him and that those sins precluded him from going to the temple. The MP told me that nobody in this elder’s ward could get time off to babysit him so he was begging one of us – I didn’t want to go to the temple, it was a crappy way to spend a P-Day in my opinion, so I told the MP I’d do it. I spent the day eating popsicles and napping with an elder who, in between Bolis and naps, would shakily and tearfully confess that no fewer than half of his companions had secret phones they used to watch porn, hire prostitutes, and buy drugs. This was bewildering to me since I had been Trying So Hard my whole mission and had always felt inadequate, and these elders who were doing better than me and more respected than me were somehow out here fucking, doing drugs, and jorkin’ it.

I was actually in a “Punishment Area” at the time because in my last area one of my life-threateningly attractive companions had gone into the homes of widows to repair their electrical wirings (he was a trained electrician prior to going on a mission.) Being alone in the home of an 80-year-old widow with failing lights was “against the rules” to the extent that me mandaron a la goma, and some handful of guys I’d been told to view as role models were out here breaking actual laws and shit. Of course, I knew in my heart of hearts that I was in this area because of the Deep Evil that Lay Within My Heart (wanting to kiss Elder Electrician on his stupid himbo lips) but my MP could not have known that, just like he didn’t know that the guys he was making Zone Leaders were getting their dicks sucked and snorting cocaine. That honestly felt outrageous to me.

I feel like the stereotypical “worst day” of a mission is the last day – they take you to the airport in a big van, all melancholy and nostalgic. We sang on our drive to the airport – elders and sisters tearfully sang or hummed hymns together. I was deadpan the whole time, it was such a relief to be going home. For me the worst part of the day was the relief – the release of pressure. The pressure to perform, to be “on,” to be at your best, is omnipresent for elders. I was the only person flying to Phoenix, so for the first time in two years I felt a release from that pressure. Nobody was scrutinizing me, I no longer felt that every thought, action, and feeling was being evaluated and judged as a sign of my true character. It was hard to realize, a the pressure let up, that I had been holding all that weight for two years without knowing when it had started. I remember getting confused in Customs and needing someone who spoke Spanish to talk to me because I kept forgetting words in English. I remember getting home and my family waiting for me and feeling like it was all finally done, finally over, I could finally breath. It didn’t feel bad, but it did feel heavy. And it definitely was not the worst day of my mission.

The actual worst day of my mission, though, was about 5 months in. At the 6-month mark I was expected to make a long trip down to an area of town near La Basilica de Guadalupe to submit my visa paperwork, and the mission office had sent me an extra $500 MX to use for transportation costs. When I withdrew the money they had sent for the month, I noticed it was higher than expected. My companion, a senior companion and district leader, had the cell phone. He was talking to another elder while he waited for me to withdraw my monthly deposit. I approached and asked if I could use the cell phone to call the mission office, as I had questions. He said “no,” and ignored me. I waited until the conversation ended and asked again, and again, angrily, he said, “No.” I said “Elder, relax, I just need to call the mission office to see why they sent me more this month than usual.” His face turned red as he realized other elders were watching the exchange occur. He handed me the phone, I called and was told the money was for transportation costs, and laughingly returned the phone to my companion. He took it, told the other elders he needed to tie his shoe but they could head on over to the District Meeting, and waited until they were out of eyesight. Once that was done, he grabbed me hard by the wrist, dragged me into a hidden corner out of earshot from others, and said, “If you ever disrespect me or my authority again I swear to God I will kill you.”

I was actually shocked. This guy had spent the last month and a half being SUPER nice to me, so I thought he was kidding and I was just confused. I laughed and said “Haha, yeah, your authority over the cell phone is sacred,” and tried to walk away but he didn’t let go of my wrist. He pulled me back and said “I will literally slit your throat if you ever talk to me like that again. As senior companion my authority over YOU is sacred, and I will not let God be mocked by you.”

I realized that he was serious. Like, actually threatening-my-life serious. I could see it in his eyes, I could feel it in the way he squeezed tighter on my wrist. In actuality, the idea seems laughable now. The guy was absolutely chickenshit. He cried if his shits were too hard, he couldn’t end a human life, but I still didn’t let myself fall asleep first for the rest of our time together. And I still hid the two knives we had in a different area while he was showering the next morning.

If I’m being honest though, even that wasn’t the worst day of my mission. That was bad, and each subsequent time he told me he was going to cut my throat for minor infractions against his God-Given Authority Over Me (like not wearing a belt for morning scripture study, or not taking the path he thought was best to get to a lesson) was a bad day. Every P-Day where he read my emails over my shoulder to make sure I wasn’t telling my parents about how he was treating me, every day he told me that the ward members would never believe me over him, every day he put me down in front of other elders and they laughed in agreement, every day he was in a bad mood and took it out on me was a bad day. But the worst day was the day I told the mission president about it. I told him about the threats to my life, his temper, his physical abuse, hiss manipulation and rule-breaking, and the mission president told me “The time to tell me this was 6 months ago. The time to forgive him and focus on your own failings is now.”

I don’t think I’ve ever felt as confused or betrayed as I did then. Like, man oh man, that was a rough thing to hear, but as the day went on I kept feeling more and more confused and scared – had I misinterpreted everything? Had I miscommunicated something in telling the story? Had I not been objective enough in recounting the threats against my life? Was it true that a senior companion actually had the authority to hurt me if I went against his authority? Was I wrong the whole time? I had no idea, to be honest, but it was bewildering.

Knowing now what I wish I had known then, I would have done things differently. But in the moment, on a mission, knowing that my biggest reason for going on a mission was the hope that the Spirit of God, which hymns told me burns like fire, would burn the faggot out of my heart. I think I felt like I deserved it. Like somehow that elder knew the evil I was hiding and felt compelled by God’s power to hurt me. I think that’s what made it so hard to defend myself in the moment – I did not have that problem with other elders. The companion who told me we were gonna wrestle to settle an argument lost three consecutive matches and pouted about it for like a week. The elder who threatened to punch me for making a joke at his expense got knocked on his ass just for raising his fist. But this elder got into my head first, and that made it hard to fight against it. Instead of fighting against it, I just silently lived with actual, verifiable, diagnosed, by-the-book, DSM-5-TR Posttraumatic Stress Disorder because I thought I deserved it. It took consistent supervision of my clinical work revealing countertransference with Male LDS clients (I consistently discussed addressing shame in a client’s presentation where no shame or discomfort had been reported), an awkward conversation with @inbabylontheywept after an even more awkward dinner with a cousin who vaguely reminds me of that companion, and a bad acid trip where I had visceral flashbacks to my mission, before I was able to realize that I was living with a pain that was as abnormal as it was unnecessary.

Even once I realized it, even once I got help, it was hard. I remember telling jokes about what happened to my therapist and seeing her jaw just…drop. She said she didn’t know it had been that dangerous for me. The session ended and he sent me the PCL-5 (a good, evidence-based, highly face-valid measure for PTSD) and some other measure for dissociative symptoms and I was like “Girl, I just took this class, I know what you’re trying to measure and this ain’t it.” I reported my symptoms accurately and was fully prepped to confront her the next session. She showed me my scores and the norms used, and I was like “Oh fuck, this looks really bad on paper,” and she was like “Yeah, I can’t imagine living like this” and I just sobbed for most of that session. We ended up doing 9 months of TF-CBT and ACT (largely because I am a terrible and uncooperative patient, realistically I think I could have been done in like 5-6 months if I wasn’t so stubborn) before I was discharged from treatment successfully.

The thing that was so weird about starting therapy for PTSD was that it made things feel worse for a while. I started taking edibles a lot more. I started behaving differently around family members and Mormons. I started being outright hostile to elders I could see. It took about 3 months before I could see the missionaries and not have an actual fight-or-flight response to their presence. I think the way I had made it a far as I did without getting treatment was by repressing the thoughts, feelings, and memories that made it all hurt, and a soon as I let them just be there it was like all the confusing aching hurt came back. The first few months of therapy were just spent expanding the amount of time I could feel that hurt before turning to other means (like dissociation, cannabis, repression, etc.) so I could actually address the experiences without crashing the rest of the day. It was hard. I know I ended several sessions sweating a LOT from the exertion it took to just let the feelings happen. By 6 months, however, I could go into a church building without blacking out from panic. By 9 months I could sit in the same room as elders without sweating and shaking like a chihuahua on Adderall. 3 months after therapy and me and my supervisors noticed that my work with Mormon men had improved substantially. 6 months after therapy and I was able to begin writing anonymous stories online. Now, about two years after completing therapy, I feel like I can talk about it without needing the cloak of anonymity, and that is empowering.

Again, I am not sure why I’m typing these stories out – they’re not fun to write, I don’t love that my family can find these posts, but I guess I just like to remind myself and others that it can always get better. That mind numbing platitude, the old thought-terminating cliché that “it gets better, just power through it” doesn’t give enough credit to how much it hurts to get through it, but it does get better. There is a light at the end of the tunnel. The triggers can go away with time, great effort, significant expense, and a lot of discomfort. The world can feel safe again, the hurt can feel bearable, that nagging worry that I might have deserved this, or that I did something wrong, can eventually go away too. It’s not easy to do it, and I have an incredible respect for the patients of mine who can pull it off, but it is undeniably as doable a it is difficult. If this story resonates with anyone, if it feels close-to-home, if these experiences feel shared, just know that the relief I talked about can feel shared too. Know that it’s worth it to get the help, that you deserve the help, that you deserve to live a life that doesn’t hurt you, that you deserve to be a full person and not a living prison for the pain and memories. Know that healing yourself does not involve extending forgiveness to Them, whoever They are. That the pain you felt will not be made less important by making the pain less potent. Know that taking care of yourself now is, in a way, taking care of yourself then. And Please, with a capital P, take care of yourselves.

Thank you to my family, especially my immediate family (special shout outs to @flowerologists and @inbabylontheywept) for the support and patience with me as I dealt with this.

Thank you to my therapist, Jordin Borques, who I recommend highly to anyone seeking trauma therapy in Arizona.

Thank you to my wife, @cintailed, for being the push that got me into therapy, and for taking care of me at my worst and still being here with me.

Thanks to my mission president for being such a colossal disappointment to Christianity that my departure from the church was inevitable.

And a general thanks to the queers for being so cute and making life worth living, even on bad days.

[negativepeanuthoarder]

“You wouldn’t last an hour in the asylum where they raised me.”

Not a swiftie but thought this was funny anyway

[throwsahammer]

Okay, wait, this "Blood Atonement" thing is the belief that... If I understand it correctly, Christ's sacrifice did not fully eliminate the need for sacrifice to atone for sin, and certain sins required the blood sacrifice (Voluntary or otherwise) of the sinner to achieve salvation?

As an atheist with protestant roots this strikes me as shockingly heretical in its departure from ordinary Christian doctrine.

I'm not sure I entirely have a question other than "Am I understanding correctly" and I guess "What the heck?"

It's a bit more complicated than that, but you've got the basic idea.

There are two foundational concepts that you need to understand in order to fit blood atonement into Mormonism properly, and those are Perdition and Having Your Calling and Election Made Sure (I'm going to abbreviate the second one).

Perdition is the condition of being sentenced to outer darkness, which sounds pretty straightforward. It's basically just the standard protestant idea of hell. However, unlike protestantism's concept of Jesus's atonement being infinite in the sense that it's open for anyone to opt into, Mormonism believes that the atonement is infinite in that it guarantees salvation for everyone regardless of personal decision. The whole concept of a tiered heaven can, therefore, be based entirely on personal merit and the completion of specific ordinances, as it's ostensibly built around the idea of growing into the sort of person who would actually be comfortable living there, and not about whether or not Jesus paid the price of admission for that specific individual.

This creates a real-world problem, though: the threat of damnation is an indispensable tool in the arsenal of a religious leader who wants to coerce people into taking certain actions, and Joseph Smith is at this point in history desperately in need of a stick with which to threaten people into compliance. So he develops a new kind of threat based on the figure of Cain. The basic idea of perdition is that there are certain acts that alter their perpetrators on a metaphysical level to the point where they can't exist within god's presence even a little bit, and will not be able to live in any kingdom of glory post resurrection. (There's a whole tangent about mormon cosmology I'm not going into here, but the short version is that the kingdoms of glory operate via divine Reaganomics, and terrestrial and telestial glory are the result of god's celestial glory trickling down).

So, the two sins that damn one's soul and body to perdition are "the shedding of innocent blood" and "denying the holy ghost." The first one is mostly employed rhetorically as a point of comparison and serves to underscore how serious the second one is. What exactly constituted a sufficient degree of apostasy to qualify as perdition-worthy was left intentionally vague by Joseph in order to enable him to threaten people from a position of unquestionable authority. It's all pretty standard new religious movement stuff so far.

But now you run into a different problem: if murder is a potentially soul-threatening act, then you're going to need to waste time manufacturing a spiritual casus belli against anyone you need removed, and nobody who is trying to build a kingdom for themselves has time for that. Enter the second piece of the puzzle: HYCaEMS. Eventually known as the Second Anointing, HYaCEMS is the ultimate theological get-out-of-jail-free card, where the prophet guarantees you a spot in the celestial kingdom, and from that moment onward there's nothing you can do to disqualify yourself from it.

So now Joseph Smith has invented everything he needs to build his empire: a message of universal salvation to appeal to the masses that directly addresses the contemporary debates of protestantism, the ability to leverage the ultimate threat against any man who questions his leadership or any young girl who doesn't want to sleep with him, and the ability to offer the ultimate reward to his inner circle in exchange for their cooperation in carrying out his dirty work. He gets shot to death before he can do very much with any of this.

So now the stage is all set for Brigham Young to build upon the foundation his successor built. He expands Smith's nascent ideas into a fleshed-out universe. The curse of Cain is developed into mormon doctrinal racism, the law of consecration is developed into Deseret's United Order, and Joseph's early concepts of exaltation are developed into the ever-expanding hierarchy of gods.

In case you haven't figured out by now, Mormonism is built on a foundation of nitpicking specific semantic details and then extrapolating entire theological concepts from there. Blood atonement is primarily the result of Brigham Young doing exactly this with how blood is talked about in the scriptures alongside the use of the phrase "flesh and bone" instead of "flesh and blood" in specific contexts. Joseph Smith (and other contemporary religious figures, most notably those who would go on to form the Jehovah's Witnesses) had spoken quite a bit about blood and the symbolic and spiritual importance thereof, but Mormonism's unique contribution to the conversation was the idea that blood was mortality. Adam and Eve did not have blood until the fall, and Jesus didn't have blood after his resurrection. Blood contained both the curse of physical death and was also a metaphorical vessel for the soul, containing the sins of man, and therefore also carrying the curse of spiritual death. The most important moment of Jesus's life, according to Mormonism, was when he prayed in Gethsemane, as that's when he physically took the universe's sins onto himself and literally bled from every pore out onto the earth, as that's when he conquered spiritual death.

Still with me? Good. Now is where I need to talk about how mormon cosmology is built around the idea that planets, stars, the sun, and other heavenly bodies are living beings. Not in a metaphorical way but in a more literal sense. Stars and planets (including the sun) are essentially divine beings, home to beings that correspond to their degree of glory. This is important because Earth was also affected by the fall and became mortal and required all of the same saving ordinances as a human would. The flood of Noah was the earth's baptism (which means that according to this worldview, the entire earth was fully submerged under water), and the eventual fiery apocalypse of the world's end will be its confirmation, or baptism by fire. The earth's equivalent of the mormon Sacrament, then, was when it literally drank the blood (in Gethsemane) and ate the flesh (in the tomb) of Jesus. This act cleansed the earth itself of sin.

Ok, so now we finally get to talk about blood atonement in context. According to this whole paradigm, anyone who commits an act of perdition will have their very blood cursed and cut off from the presence of god. When they are resurrected to face final judgment, their sins will remain locked inside their now immortal bodies and prevent them from dwelling in any kingdom of glory (this point is not much elaborated on, and it's unclear whether bodies of sons of perdition have blood or are just metaphysically bound to it somehow).

When Cain slew Abel, Abel's innocent blood soaked the earth, and that blood cried out for justice, but Cain was cursed with perdition, so his blood could never be shed, and it wasn't until Jesus soaked the earth with his blood that Abel's blood's need for justice was fulfilled. The earth, having absorbed divine blood capable of paying the price of justice for innocent blood, can therefore act as an intermediary for this sort of thing.

But doesn't that undermine the whole "infinite atonement" thing? Well, yes, but not anymore than the necessity of any other ordinance within Mormonism does within the same framework. Jesus was baptized, and anyone who wants to access the specific covenants locked behind baptism needs to be baptized. Jesus, while not a murderer, took those sins upon himself and shed his blood, so any murderer who wants to access the redemption must also do so. Shedding your blood upon the ground becomes a sort of conditional ordinance that's only necessary if you've committed the otherwise unforgivable sin of murder.

Now you'll notice that we're only talking about murder here and not apostasy. That's because, crucially, those are the same thing as far as Mormonism is concerned, as you're spiritually killing someone (yourself and potentially your family as well). Brigham Young prescribed "death on the spot" for mormons who engaged in the apostate act of miscegenation, for example.

Now, I want to stress that it's extremely unclear how many people, if any, were actually blood atoned for apostasy, how many people, if any, were executed in ways that did not shed their blood because they were deemed "apostate," and how widespread or accepted any of this doctrine was beyond church leadership. I also want to make it clear that there is no credible evidence that suggests that either the doctrine or practice of blood atonement is taught or practiced by any branches of Mormonism beyond certain fundamentalist sects such as the FLDS under the leadership of Warren Jeffs, or isolated incidents such as the Lafferty Brother murders.

The mainstream LDS church has quietly de-emphasized or de-canonized almost all of these teachings, including many of the foundational elements. You can occasionally find church officials expressing some or even all of these beliefs in unofficial settings, but the most recent examples are the likes of Cleon Skousen, Hugh Nibley, Bruce McConkie, and Joseph Fielding Smith, all of which are decades ago at this point, and virtually all of which are inaccessible via official church records.

So there you go. I feel obligated to note that much of the connective tissue of this post comes from personal experience and decades of reading various official and semi-official writings on the topic and that I don't have a list of sources handy. Go read Under the Banner of Heaven (or watch the Hulu series) if you want a broader, better-sourced look at the history of violence within Mormonism (though note that Krakauer does dabble in conjecture, especially in the Hulu adaptation).

[exmojoe]

Is your love language really acts of service or were you raised with the sole purpose of being a caregiver for all of eternity??

[jesusinstilettos]

Remember the concept of consent applies to religion too. Think of the acronym FRIES. Consent is: Freely given, Reversible, Informed, Enthusiastic, Specific.

It’s not consent if the threat of hell for leaving is looming over you, that’s not freely given or reversible. Thats coercion.

You can’t consent if you were born into it, because a child can’t fully understand all they are agreeing to when forced into a specific religious group. That’s not informed.

If you were converted into a cult later in life, odds are they didn’t tell you all you were agreeing to up front. They often masquerade as regular Christians Bible studies or other harmless things. And they don’t tell you the more extreme things until they’ve manipulated you and indoctrinated you enough. That’s not informed consent.

When you have to pledge loyalty to a group before fully understanding what all that entails (looking at you Mormon church and your Endowment ceremony), that’s not informed consent.

You can’t fully consent if you’re being manipulated, lied to, threatened, indoctrinated, abused, mislead, etc.

I was both born into an abusive religion and then converted into a cult as a teenager and consent was never able to be fully given for any of it. I could give a bunch of other reasons, but I think you get it. People don’t consent to joining abusive religions.