#ESPECIALLY NOT BY DUKAT

[trillscienceofficer]

(I know you didn't sign on to become the 'Kai Winn discourse blog', so I hope you don't mind me jumping into this discussion) but something I find odd is when people say the reason they *hate* Winn is that they know people like her IRL, but Dukat is just a sci-fi fascist, so they don't relate him to real life at all. Kai Winn is reduced to stereotypes yet Dukat is put on this opposite pedestal of 'he's so evil that no one in real life is like that, therefore I can ironically enjoy him because it's so far removed from reality' and I just don't get it. It's a perspective that feels so far removed from (at least from my) reality. Like sorry, but there's *plenty* of people in real life like Dukat. (I mean, I think setting up some sort of dichotomy between the characters is inherently reductive, but people treat them so differently it's hard not to see misogyny as a huge factor here. It's just so bizarre to see constantly.)

yeah, I've said in one post I've made about Dukat that even in my experience he's just a very common type of guy? I come from Italy and let me tell you... petty, slimy tyrants like Dukat are just dime a dozen in the so-called 'patria'. I think it's silly to pretend that Dukat is far removed from reality, and it goes against what DS9 was trying to say imho. Dukat isn't a 'special Cardassian', he's just a guy who isn't afraid to step on anyone's neck if it'll allow him to stay afloat. And also isn't afraid to rape Bajoran women as soon as he can get away with it.

Which brings me to my next point, about the general questions on 'why is Winn so vilified in comparison to Dukat'. There's a really interesting discussion in the replies of my previous post, and I recommend reading it but in short I think this attitude towards Winn starts already in the show. DS9 went out of its way to humiliate Winn in specifically gendered ways; by having Dukat rape her (a guy who is a serial rapist of Bajoran women specifically), by having her die painfully after having everything stripped away from her, and her death is ultimately meaningless unless you frame it as her 'just punishment'. Dukat in comparison gets to have an 'epic fight' against the show's protagonist (even if I think that storyline is so fucking stupid, it's still an epic fight.)

And so I think people are primed to feel like propping up Dukat and wanting to humiliate Winn further, by directly comparing her to him as being so much more deserving of punishment, it's just no big deal because it already happened in the show after all. But by doing so they're making it so much worse. Folks, that is a genuinely disturbing part of the show, it's never been good, Winn was mishandled so badly by the final episodes of DS9. There's something very sinister in insisting to not recognize that and wanting to hand even more punishment on Winn. Ask yourselves: why? Why do you feel like your violent fantasies are justified on her? Didn't DS9 already do enough to her?

[kingsmoot]

um. can i be honest. with you. i think it's dumb as fuck when people talk about great house genetics in asoiaf as if they're a plot hole or a world building flaw and not like. a very cute and fun and purposeful feature of the world. you fr have no sense of whimsy.

[kuronekonerochan]

Look I like Kira okay. It's just that... Kira Nerys' love life as a priest simp is a mirror universe fleabag where:

It isn't a forbidden romance.

There is not a one hot priest in sight.

They have no chemistry.

The relationships bore me to death.

The worst part is they do that fucking storyline not once but multiple times with different bland af priests.

Say what you will about mirrorverse Kira, at least her kinky bdsm personal life was much more interesting and with much more chemistry with her romantic interests than real Kira's sad excuse for filler "relationships".

As I said I like Kira (but...). I LOVE mirrorverse Kira. No notes. She's perfect (in a god damn what a great sexy villain kind of way).

[kitkatt0430]

Benjamin Sisko is an amazing man, but it's still hilarious that so many people to fixate on him as their personal rival.

Dukat, Eddington, and Solok are the most notable three. And all three all wind up completely changing their personalities to revolve around one-upping Sisko and he winds up beating them anyway.

After Dukat destroys his career, he re-fashions himself into what is essentially the Emissary of the Pah-Wraiths. He's always been fixated on Sisko to some degree, but the final season takes it up to eleven.

Eddington becomes fed up with his career and projects his frustrations on to Sisko, re-imagining their relationship to be one where he's the noble criminal and Sisko the evil, relentless enforcer. But reality was never going to conform to his imaginings.

Solok, the Vulcan who was so obsessed with one-upping Sisko that he also developed an obsession with baseball. He drags his crew into it. He taunts Ben with it, makes things personal in a way the other two can't. In part because Solok is so incredibly petty. The other two are so grandiose in their methods, but Solok takes the petty route every time.

[antiparticular]

I know it technically doesn't translate one to one, but I do find it very funny that the cardassian military uniforms show off their neck ridges so prominently, given that they are supposedly an erogenous zone. it's like having a tit window in an army jacket

[pendraegon]

dont know how to put it into words but this is dukat to sisko to me

[pacificsaury]

if you're a starfleet captain with hair, you will be into your first officer. if you have no hair, the love interest beams get reflected off your bald head, however it will:

1. hit everyone else in the room (your crew members are into each other/you)

2. hit your enemy (they are into you)

[turnaboutwright]

bareil may be the most boring motherfucker out there but i think kira deserves a boring ass boyfriend...as a treat

[bijoumikhawal]

no it's controversial but I agree. Like, they had an implied "Odo liking men" metaphor episode and it involved presenting the other changeling as an amoral and violent antagonist. The most bi-coded Dukat is is an episode where he's hallucinating and has basically kidnapped Sisko. Ezri and Kira are queer in the mirror universe to underscore their moral ambiguity and villainy. Do I wish Garak was openly queer, or that garashir was canon? Yes, but under different writers.

That part in the documentary where they were like "Garak should have come out in season 2" left me breathless in the same way I'd feel if a mack truck going 90 mph passed inches from my nose.

It would have been - you guys - it would have been so bad . Can you imagine how awful Garak's story lines would have been after that? If he hadn't been written out.

I'm not saying the writers weren't skilled, or wouldn't have had the best of intentions, but there is no way that would have been good.

Truly dodged a bullet there, friends.

[deeplovelydark]

dukat giving ziyal the dress he originally intended for kira to wear after kira rejected it (and him) is so diabolical. he had a daughter with a woman whose people's planet's occupation he actively participated in. now he's trying to have sex with the daughter of another woman he sexually exploited during that occupation. and when she told him to fuck off after he tried to give her a sexy dress to wear, he's giving that dress to his daughter. ziyal might've been kira's sister. incest haunts these dynamics but it's not explicit or literal. it doesn't have to be. the horror of incest lies not in blood relations but in the power that a parent, biological or not, has over a child. the same power that the occupying power has over the occupied. a parent owns their child (especially if it's father and daughter) just like occupied people are owned. the word family comes from the latin word for servant.

[searchingforserendipity25]

i am sure this has been written before, but i am beset by the notion of garak the plain and simple tailor who IS a plain and simple tailor.

regular cardassian fashion mogul with a thriving company who thrives on gossip and the ruthlessness of the industry. gets involved into a scheme re: dukat senior, a pair of pants with secret pockets, and several state secrets and gets duly exiled about it.

the fact that he's tain's extremely traumatized illegitimate son doesn't change.

it's not sentiment that keeps tain from turning him into an obsidian order operative, he is simply too aware of the usefulness of having a readily available source on the high-end service class inside sphere of of powerful society. very, very useful - especially when it comes to stitching listening and recording devices, secret armor and protective fibers, slow-acting poison...

instead of being sent to bamarren he goes to cardassia's best tradesmen boarding school, which is not, all things considered, less competitive or soul-sucking or dangerous to life and limb than bamarren.

the wire? typically implemented on civilian-adjacent collaborators of the obsidian order.

in conclusion: if deep space nine's only tolerable human wants to role play spy-and-ingenue over lunch, elim garak, three times the cover for the equivalent of the kardasi'or vogue, is bored and high and frankly into it enough to go for it.

[calicobigamy]

Essence of a Babygirl (a tumblr joke essay)

Babygirl, the term has spiked in popularity, but what is a babygirl? Is the term a bit more complicated than at first glance? What is the essence of a babygirl? Today I will be answering these questions. 

Urban dictionary describes babygirl as thusly:

“A term used towards grown fictional men who have the fandom in a loving chokehold.”

A Mashable article titled The internet's 2022 horny dictionary defines babygirl as

“... a term of endearment for when a man is being cute, comfortable in his masculinity, or weak in an evocative way.”

These descriptions are wholesome. They create an avenue of masculinity that can be vulnerable and attractive at the same time. A term for a type of masculinity that creates room for a multi-dimensional character in fiction. Various fictional characters have been affectionately dubbed as “babygirls”. One of the most well known being Leon Kennedy from the Resident Evil franchise. 

However the term is also used to describe characters that are remarkably not wholesome. Characters like Izzy Hands, played by Con O’Neil from the incredible show written by David Jenkins called Our Flag Means Death and Marvel’s Loki, played by Tom Hiddleston, have been called babygirls. This must indicate a spectrum of “babygirlness” that scales from wholesome to not wholesome. 

A good babygirl can be seen at a glance, but what makes these other characters part of that babygirl spectrum on the negative side? As my colleague (@robogart) and I studied the issue we realized that negative babygirlness included more nuance. 

We created a study group to determine what attributes make up a bad babygirl. Included in our study was: Izzy Hands (Our Flag Means Death), Gal Dukat (Deep Space 9), David Xanathos and Oberon (Gargoyles), Anders (DA2), Yami Bakura (Yugi-oh, 4kids Production), King of All Cosmos (Katamari), Patches (Fromsoft), Ratagin (Great Mouse Detective), and the Six Fingered Man (Princess Bride). 

The five characteristics that we found amongst all of the babygirls we picked from various media were: being decidedly not wholesome, pathetic, emotionally unhinged and dastardly, but all in all containing some kind of charm. 

We went through and put all of our babygirls to the test with our system. The results were surprising, with Izzy Hands coming out decidedly less babygirl than we predicted and Ratagin being the epitome of babygirlness. 

What did these tests show about babygirlness on a whole? The spectrum ranges from morally good characters to bad, but all share a few common traits. However they express their vulnerabilities, either as completely unhinged or emotionally accessible, we as the audience are captivated and find “their weakness evocative”. Another aspect that is continuous through the spectrum of babygirlness, whether good or bad, is that a babygirl is secure in his masculinity however he chooses to express it. Babygirls on either end of the spectrum do end up having a “loving chokehold on their fandom”. Those people in the fandom are not necessarily of quantity, but of quality. Especially for the baby girls on the “bad” end of the spectrum. 

In conclusion a babygirl can be summed up as a fictional male character that is evocative in his vulnerability and at the same time confident in his masculinity regardless of his moral compass.

Co-Written with @robogart

THANK YOU FOR READING ALL THE WAY TO THE END OF THIS SILLY LITTLE ESSAY!

Please feel free to copy and paste the bad babygirl diagram and see where you babygirls fit!! I am excited to see your favorites!!

[ziggy-solarecreator]

ima add some snippets from the discord convo we all had over this post, some from me, some from brokensouvenir, some from x-x-kroww: -The writers throwing a hissy fit over people reacting to their work in a way they don’t personally endorse or approve of is, quite frankly, silly. You can’t control what people think of something or how they relate to, and trying to do so is fruitless and frustrating for everyone involved. Changing the way they wrote Dukat for the simple reason that they didn’t like people liking the villain character is petty and unprofessional at best, and it feels retaliatory towards fans, particularly women, which is I think the point brokensouvenir was trying to make above, especially given the wider context of how female fans of the series were treated at that time.- -Not saying it didn’t happen, but I personally have encountered vanishingly few people who openly say Dukat did nothing wrong, that he was justified, etc. However, I have encountered far more fans who have been harassed or subject to other vitriol for liking the character. It would be nice if fandom at large could stop moralizing the types of media people enjoy. What you watch, draw, write, etc has zero bearing on your own personal morality or beliefs, and liking a villain character does not mean you endorse their actions. And that really should go without saying, because assuming otherwise is both ridiculous and puritanical.- -ira didn't like that people didn't see dukat as unequivocally a villain, and he has admitted to his disdain for how much the (largely female) fanbase liked dukat. opinions on the writing of dukat aside, the fact that he deliberately made changes to the story based on his personal dislike of the fan response (which, again, he has openly admitted to) is something i see as... petty, at best.

and that choice feels antithetical to the complex story they were trying to tell with the rest of ds9-

-the writers had big plans for dukat, originally. the redemption arc that damar goes through in season 6 and 7? that was originally slated for dukat.

and those plans were changed explicitly because of ira's dislike of the fan response to dukat.- -this is why the introduction of the pah-wraith cult and all the crap about ultimate good vs. evil in the form of the prophets vs. pah-wraith conflict feels so out of left field. because it was. many a fan has wondered why dukat seemed to radically go off the deep end in 'waltz' and take a dive straight into mustache-twirling villainy when he had previously shown the capacity for great complexity, being capable of doing good and bad for complicated reasons. and all that got thrown out the window in the later seasons because ira explicitly wanted to flatten his characters into distinct good and evil categories, to 'correct' the fans-

-the decision to take a hard left into dukat being a villainous caricature was disappointing not because dukat fans thought dukat was right or any other such nonsense, but because up until that point, the character had walked a compelling tightrope with his loyalties and actions. he had the capacity for both cruelty and compassion, manipulation and genuine emotion, and they utterly wasted that potential. the amazing work the writers did with creating that nuance that made the show so compelling in earlier seasons was completely discarded in s6 and 7, which is why they are so frustrating to watch- -what i resent most about this is the idea that ira thought he needed to moralize to the fanbase, who he saw as apparently incapable of separating their enthusiasm for a character from endorsement of said character's actions. as though star trek hasn't dealt with complex and morally gray concepts literally since its inception.- -and i don't say this just because i'm a dukat fan. which i am, and i make no apologies for that. i say this because dukat's character was an integral part of the nuance that made the show compelling, despite only being a supporting character, and taking that away actively sabotaged the direction of the show from a character standpoint. season 6-7 takes character steps that simply don't make sense, and it's not just dukat. the whole julian/ezri relationship is a great example, and after julian had spent the last five seasons going from pining over wanting to fuck jadzia to developing a genuine and mutually respectful friendship with her.

and ultimately, it made the ending of the show a disappointing, hamfisted metaphor for 'hurr durr good triumph over evil.' how in the world did we get there, starting from a series that had taken on extremely difficult and nuanced subjects like the lasting impact of colonialism on individuals and their society, the consequences of atrocities committed against a people (and what that means for the perpetrators of those atrocities), as well as trauma, indoctrination, and racial/cultural identity?-

-it felt like a waste to throw all that away because ira didn't like that fans didn't see dukat as an irredeemable monster. and i think to say, overtly or otherwise, that people who have done awful things are inevitably and irrevocably condemned is antithetical to ds9's overall message, and to the ethos of star trek itself.-

-and i don't think he was intentional about pissing anyone off. the reason i express disdain for him is not because of the creative choices he made with the show, even though i dislike those choices. the reason for my disdain for him is that, external to the show itself, he has expressed derision towards fans of dukat and stated that he thinks of them as deviant, brainwashed, or both. which to me smacks of paternalistic misogyny, and i dislike seeing him shitting on the very fans who supported the show's success and its enduring legacy.- -behr actual said this. he actually compared dukat fans to the type of women who wrote to serial killers and as recently as a year ago, on the 7th rule, he was calling us 'strange' and other terms. his opinion of dukat fans, especially women fans, was literally misogynistic. in his own words. we're not just interpreting things here. and it's not based on fanfic. this isn't coming from a place of personal attack or questioning his motives. these are things he has said, on record, for 30 years.- -and when he literally rewrote and retconned a compelling, multi-dimensional character to MAKE him a one dimensional evil villain, then, yeah, i'm going to bitch about it. just because he had a right to do it doesn't make it right, especially when the REASON he did it was literally because he didn't like women thinking dukat was sexy because he was a bad guy.-

i have very strong feelings about this topic and will continue ranting about it for as long as i live.

hot take

i’m glad garashir wasn’t (overtly) canon because i (retroactively) don’t trust the production team/writers room with the relationship

so i know there were some complex issues that were handled well on the show, obviously, or else we wouldn’t all still be talking about it, but could they have effectively handled a M/M romance (in the 90s)? i think not

exhibit A - they fucked up the dominion narrative so bad that the producers literally did not even understand what they had created. they could have explored a lot of issues that were treated with care when it came to other characters (drug addiction, generational trauma, dynamics in an authoritarian society, etc.) but instead we got “these are the bad guys, boooo! 👿👽”

exhibit B - the production team made plot decisions based on their petty grievance with fans enjoying dukat in a way they didn’t understand. if these dudes can’t handle people finding a fictional villain sexy they definitely wouldn’t have handled the queer community’s reaction to canon garashir, whatever that reaction may have been, because at the end of the day they were out of touch with the fans

i rest my case

[codenameregnar]

So maybe this is all just cope and the real answer really is just homophobia, but I think the whole Garak/Ziyal thing actually makes so much sense.

When Ziyal first came to the station, Garak was especially lonely, this is around the time him and Julian had started growing apart, and there was finally someone on the station who was at least partially Cardassian. Someone who could remind him of home, even just a little. I think he genuinely set out to just be a friend and a bit of a father figure to her, especially since her actual father sucks so bad. But Ziyal is young and impressionable and shes never really had anyone just be nice to her with no ulterior motive (other than Kira, different hc tho lol) so when you combine that with her weird and mixed up feelings about Dukat, of course she ended up wanting to be more than friends with Garak. And initially I think he’s kinda creeped out by it (I mean he’s 30 years older than her after all) if flattered. Not only does he sincerely believe that he’s not deserving of any sort of intimacy, but shes so young that surely she has no idea what shes signing herself up for. But christ, he is so utterly lonely. And one thing about Garak is he is absolutely incapable of not devouring every scrap of softness and comfort that he’s given, even if he hates himself for it. And he also realizes that she needs that comfort just as much as he does. That shes in a very similar position to his. They both have no one. And in that way she makes him feel so much less alone. The cherry on top of all of this being that he now has a new way to piss Dukat off. So he allows a relationship to form between them. Because he genuinely cares about her, and he needs her.

Idk, I just think they work really well together actually. They’re just two people cast adrift in the middle of the ocean, holding on to each other so as not to drown. And I think they did love each other if only for that shared experience of loneliness and the respite from it that they provided for one another. Whenever I see posts about how he only ever viewed their relationship as a familial one, I can’t help but think that thats not the whole picture.

[purplespacekitty]

Ramblings on Tora Ziyal

I think it’s well beyond a shame that they killed off Ziyal because I really would have liked to see her Cardassian-Bajoran identity more fleshed out and have her navigate the world beyond her father’s influence. She was starting to do that a bit with Kira and Garak (though I strongly feel that Garak should have been more of a mentor figure than a love interest) and it would have been really cool to see her get to hang out with Jake and Nog and just be a kid for once. It feels way too weird the way they began her character as this traumatized little girl who knew nothing but the brief time of her life she spent with her mother on Bajor and the horrors of the Breen mines and then magically turned her into this saccharine sweet, mostly well-adjusted young woman who loves her tyrant father despite his crimes (and in many ways, is seemingly unaware of them???????). Where was the therapy? Where was the rehabilitation? Where was the jaded child we saw in “Indiscretion”? What if Ziyal had been allowed to channel her anger and pain into learning about Bajor and Cardassia, into healing herself? Her dad basically plucked her out of the Breen mines after years of giving less than a Cardassian vole's asshole about her and then it turns out he originally planned to kill her when he found her? After she prayed for years that he'd come and save her? I'd be pissed.

But also, I wish they'd explored more of why she didn't appear to be all that pissed. We have almost no other context for Ziyal's childhood, certainly not any of what it was like before Dukat sent her and Naprem away. Was it simply exhaustion and desperation that led her to the conclusion that she'd rather die than not be with him once he'd found her? Was there a guise Dukat put up to portray himself as a kind father and mask the tyrant underneath before he sent Naprem and Ziyal away? Or did she even get to see Dukat at all in her early childhood? Did she simply assume he would be a loving father? Is that the image Ziyal clung to for comfort for all those years? Did she cling so tightly she could do little else but believe it?

It feels icky to kind of reduce her existence to Dukat Drama™ the way the show ultimately did with her death. Why didn’t we get to see her experiencing disillusionment about Dukat, who never actually changed for the better when she was still alive and trying to get him to stop being so horrible? Why didn’t we get any Rugal-level anger from her, the hushed-up child of a Bajoran comfort woman and the genocidal former Prefect of Bajor? Because, obviously, Dukat never actually took his fatherhood to her seriously. She tried to imagine him as someone he was not and he predictably chose to inflate his own ego by encouraging her. She wasn't much more to him than a device to garner some twisted idea of sympathy for himself. Ziyal needed more of a chance to break away from relying on Dukat for unconditional love. Because his love, as we know, was not unconditional. In fact, I hesitate to even call it love at all, given how ready he was to manipulate Ziyal, how ready he was to get rid of her. She had unconditional love from Kira, who immediately went to bat for her before she’d even met her when she found out what Dukat planned to do to his own daughter. And I totally believe Garak’s love for Ziyal could have grown into something unconditional, but they ruined it with some weird, out-of-nowhere romance with an uncomfortable age gap and then had her killed off like some tragic, helpless maiden.

DS9 was sort of the only place Ziyal could experience any sort of semblance of real safety in her life, especially considering both Bajoran and Cardassian attitudes towards biracial children. It would have been interesting to explore an arc with her making DS9 her home as a place that is conducive to the cohabitation of many different species and cultures while also wrestling with isolation and ostracization from those who share in the two most pervasively impactful facets of her identity. Maybe the writers wanted to focus on portraying her girlhood and favored it over exploring the complexities of her Cardassian-Bajoran heritage. But honestly, they failed at both. She never got to have a girlhood and she ultimately became more of a plot device than a fully-fledged character. This franchise started off with its most interesting and beloved main character being both Vulcan and human. I know Ziyal is someone else entirely, but they totally could have done more with her than they did.

I would love, love, LOVE to see her engage with different aspects of both Bajoran and Cardassian culture. I wonder if she would develop any kind of spirituality regarding the Prophets. Since Bajorans are widely a spiritual people, it's possible Naprem shared some of her spiritual practices with her daughter. If she did, does Ziyal observe those practices to feel closer to her mother? Does she seek Kira's help in learning more about Bajoran spirituality? Do they connect over the struggles their faith has gotten them through? Would delving deeper into Bajoran spirituality open a gateway to acceptance from other Bajorans? Or would it make them turn their backs on her even more? How does her Cardassian-Bajoran heritage impact the way she interacts with her own spirituality and beliefs? As far as Cardassian culture goes, Garak certainly has an eye for art and I could see her connecting with Professor Natima Lang, Hogue and Rekelen and learning about Cardassia's resistance movements.

Also, multiple Bajoran and Cardassian drinks, confections and meals are shown throughout the series and especially with respect to its main character, DS9 frequently places food in an important cultural, community-building role. As someone whose strongest connection to their own heritage comes from food, I would have loved to see Ziyal engage with both Bajoran and Cardassian culture through food.

Obviously, we were robbed of heaps and heaps of space station shenanigans:

Nog sharing what he learns from Starfleet Academy with Ziyal, Ziyal trying tube grubs and actually liking them.

Ziyal illustrating Jake’s stories into comic books or murals and the two of them creating stuff together and maybe some nerdy pop culture history discussions on the side. I feel like Jake, Nog and Ziyal would totally have weekly movie nights.

Odo looking out for her, giving her advice about handling bullies, the two of them bonding over being generally considered the odd ones out and Ziyal making paintings to add to his quarters.

Kira giving her lots of hugs, teaching her to fight, protecting her from bigots and helping her embrace her Bajoran background, teaching her Bajoran culture. Ziyal stealing clothes from Kira's closet occasionally ("You hardly ever wear anything other than your uniform, anyway! And they fit, see?"). Ziyal sneakily tagging along on Kira and Dax's trips to the holosuites, eventually convincing them to just invite her to them regularly, anyway. She knows how to use her cuteness as a force for good, but more importantly, she knows how to use it as a force for capers and hijinks.

Garak making her clothes, teaching her the art of cunning deceit and helping her embrace her Cardassian background, teaching her Cardassian culture. More hangouts in the holosuites basking on steaming rocks. And the two of them giggling in tasteful mirth at Bashir because he finds Cardassian literature boring.

Gossiping with Bashir and Jadzia, learning to treat wounds and carry a bat’leth, never growing tired of Dax’s many tales of woe, romance and adventure.

Sisko teaching her how to cook and inviting her to play baseball with him and Jake.

Quark occasionally letting her have a drink on the house because she can be more devious than him if she wants to be (“Listen, kid, if you’ll get rid of all this root beer for me, you can have as many free glasses as you want”).

Leeta and Rom being the cool aunt and uncle who buy her all the jumja sticks she wants.

Babysitting Molly and Kirayoshi and learning about plants, science and Earth history from Keiko. I wish Keiko had gotten more screen time - in general, but also of her in her element, studying plants and playing music. It's criminal that we never see Keiko play her clarinet in DS9, so I definitely would love to see the two of them playing music together if Ziyal felt so inclined.

Leaving O’Brien in the dust at darts for reasons he simply cannot fathom.

Listening to Klingon opera with Worf over glasses of prune juice.

Becoming an accidental stowaway on Kasidy’s freighter one day and Kasidy taking her with on missions to Bajor. Kasidy, Keiko and Ziyal hanging out together is a trio dynamic that never happened and definitely should have.

Talking stuff out with Ezri, the two of them commiserating over their respective identity crises.

Dressing up for nights at Vic’s.

Learning about Klingon music from that Klingon chef (I believe his name is Kaga) on the Promenade.

Punching each successive version of Weyoun in the fucking face (maybe even Weyoun 6, accidentally or intentionally, doesn't matter, it would just be funny).

Rebel strategies with Damar (I think he’d come around if he didn’t have it out for her and got over Cardassian bureaucracy), Kira and Garak.

Helping around the house whenever she and Garak visit Mila, long talks with Mila about her Obsidian Order days.

Weekly dinners with everybody.

I want to see her making friends and being supported by all the loving, caring people around her who love her (collectively and individually) more than her actual-piece-of-shit dad. I want her to grapple with the fact that certain people hate the mere existence of her enough to want her dead but also decide to go “hell with it” and fucking live for herself. She deserves to be more than the tragedy that made Dukat finally snap and descend into pure insanity. She deserves to laugh and cry and stomp her feet and dance and shout and sing and love and play and paint to her heart’s content. She deserves to be angry. She deserves to have a childhood, an adolescence, an adulthood and an elderhood. She deserves to live. And maybe to be the perpetrator of a few political assassinations as a treat.

So………....................suffice to say, I have a LOT of thoughts about Ziyal. I love her and I wish the show runners had loved her more, too.

[ferryfoam]

Hello !! Today I bring you a silly Quodo doodle

It is a bit based on that one episode in which Quark sits on Odo's desk while talking to him but I imagine this to be in a different context to that.. maybe it is just a thing Quark does sometimes :- >

Now ! Recently I watched s3e8 , s3e9 , s3e10 , s3e11 and s3e12

For episodes 8-10 I do not have much to say really ... they were not super interesting, and e10 was very uncomfortable to watch (is it really Star Trek if they don't have an episode where all the characters make out) I felt the only reason the episode existed was for fan service (and I suppose a little to set up Odo's liking of Kira, although I feel they could have done this differently... also I will say although I love Quodo very much I think Odo and Kira are really sweet together so I am glad they have chosen to go in this direction! I am more of a platonic Quodo enjoyer anyway if that makes sense) anyways . I deeply dislike Vedek Bareil so I eagerly anticipate whenever he and Kira break up ... I did enjoy e9 as Gul Dukat is a very interesting character to me and I was glad to see more about him! I liked the vague fatherly bonding he had with Sisko, although they dislike each other I think their political friendship of sorts could have some interesting development as the series progresses!

For episodes 11 and 12 however !! They were far more enjoyable, and I think some of the best written episodes of the show so far. I really enjoyed them! It was funny that the year they went back to happened to be 2024 and I liked the very 90s interpretation of the future- although I do not live in America so I cannot comment on exactly how accurate it was, I do feel that on some levels some of the issues they brought up are very much prevalent in society

Anyways it's always fun to see Star Trek characters in modern era - I loved Sisko and Bashir's characterisations here, especially during the hostage situation. It was kind of a unique point of view to see the protagonists being the ones holding the hostages, very refreshing perspective I think !

That is all from me ! Goodbye for now !