#ENOUGH RAMBLING THANK YOU FOR ASKING

[nina-ya]

bithday!! that is exciting! when is your birthday? 💙

OH AH its next tuesday!! the 13th!!!!

[technically-human]

okay now please doodle Charles and Edwin’s wedding. Also love your art it’s so cute and loveable in a way

Sherwani for Charles and morning dress for Edwin, yay

ko-fi

And you get a little headcanon/concept

At some point during their friendship, way before Port Townsend, Charles mentioned the tradition of wearing gold at weddings. He did so in a sad sort of way, as he had seen the pictures from his parents wedding, and knew her mum had not been allowed to wear a lehenga nor many gold accessories.

Maybe, as these things are meant to bring happiness to the couple, he mentions that as a child he believed his parents marriage would have been happier if she wore those things.

Edwin starts to collect gold items. He doesn't analyze the reason, but if a case offers gold as payment? Edwin is taking it. Charles thinks nothing of it, it's just one of Edwin's quirks.

After his revelations in Port Townsend, Edwin will eventually realize a few things regarding his gold rush.

And they will have a lot of gold jewlery for their wedding day!

[bloobydabloob]

Holy shit I love your Dirk interpretations, it's so true and I could talk about this shit forever. I feel like another part of his character that people seem to forget (along with Roxy for some reason) is that he's from the future in solitude in an apocalyptic wasteland. I just see that part of his character always removed which is disappointing because I feel like that's a pretty big part, especially regarding his themes around technology, his brother's theme of Time, his own isolation, and how he plays in the vastness of the universe and spacetime.

Art I drew related to the subject because I like to respond to asks with art.

But absolutely. I certainly understand where the lack of discussion over his isolation + upbringing comes from, considering a majority of the fanbase that I have seen builds their ideas based on their own version of postcanon. I’m not entirely sure how that would be fixed, but certainly even in the somewhat recent past I would see a lot more content regarding his upbringing both literally and symbolically. I don’t have much to add regarding the things you’ve mentioned, because they just are what they are. Dirk being confined to a singular room left to him by a father figure he never met, in a future where the only other person left on the planet is someone he cannot pursue a relationship of because of himself, with purely 3 robots to keep him companion, one being an exact replica of his own brain who is *also* trapped inside a pair of glasses, is about as literal as it gets to me.

The contrast to me involving the flooded, organic world in comparison to the little speckle of Dirk’s apartment packed with the dude and his technics is not only a representation of his isolation and entrapment within himself, but also of his lack of control. I think his obsession with & themes of control are a direct product in the case of Dirk specifically *of* this kind of upbringing. His themes of technology are also related to his themes around control. So much of his character is actually revolved around this to me like so much. Dirk is so deeply disconnected from humanity in every way and so much of his character + symbolism is based around that.

It doesn’t even have to be about the symbolism or anything though. It’s just pretty *interesting* in the literal sense that he lives in the middle of the ocean in the future. There’s not only a lot to theorise on to do with his young life there, but on how it might affect him in the way he acts for the rest of his life. The latter part is probably what I see mentioned the most by people talking about Dirk regarding this, I’m surprised I don’t see more discussion on the former too though. I really ought to actually talk more about Homestuck stuff on here. I will do it myself.

Roxy & Dirk’s relationship is largely ignored though because there is a narrative a certain demographic spreads that Dirk resented and blamed Roxy for her interest in him, and thus too many people believe that their relationship was or would continue to be an abusive one. Realistically, I believe it’s important to acknowledge that the way Roxy treated Dirk regarding his homosexuality wasn’t right while still acknowledging the obvious amount of respect and admiration Dirk had for Roxy. I mean we have a huge piece of dialogue from their post trickster mode conversations on the quest beds from Dirk purely stating how he feels about Roxy that people completely ignore somehow. I think this usually happens to characters that are women though. I know everyone says it, but it is true. Jane gets the exact same treatment of boiling her down to solely her negative aspects. The things I see completely mischaracterising both of them are horrific.

I mean how much more explicit can it get that their relationship is obviously very important to Dirk? But I digress. I think the best or I should say “most interesting” interpretations of their relationship usually come from DirkRoxy shippers actually.

I would be interested to hear about Dirk’s relation to his brother’s theme of time though. I don’t have any thoughts on this and I don’t recall ever hearing anyone talk about it before. If you or anyone else would be willing to enlighten me I’d be thrilled.

[aliferous-ly]

special shout-out to everyone making gifs for the hermit charity event you are my absolute favorite people and the lifeblood of hermitblr <3

[gingermintpepper]

I haven't read the Odyssey so I'm asking you. Are you telling me besides Athena, Apollo was the god who helped Odysseus and his family the most? Indirectly at least.

If that's true it's really a missed opportunity in EPIC.

No, no, the god who assists Odysseus the most after Athena is unquestionably Zeus.

Zeus genuinely has no problems with Odysseus and makes it very clear that he finds the man brilliant and would have already had him home and safe if he had his way, but he makes it clear that he's deferring to Poseidon who actually has the problem with Odysseus because, ultimately, the sea is Poseidon's domain and kingdom and Zeus doesn't intend to step on his brother's toes.

(Od. Book 1 trans. Robert Fitzgerald)

I'd definitely give third place to Apollo however. The big bug-bear about Apollo in the Odyssey is just that he's much less tangible than Athena or even Hermes who appears to Odysseus multiple times to help guide him/give him proclamations. His presence is everywhere though; like I've previously mentioned (and like he did with Jason) it's Apollo protecting Odysseus from Poseidon as he sails the sea after Odysseus blinds Polyphemus. It's also Apollo keeping Telemachus safe. His most vital role by far is when Odysseus returns to Ithaca in time for the challenge that will determine the next king. Not only is it a shooting contest whose first hurdle is to string a bow, the challenge itself takes place on a festival day for Apollo. Athena is there with Odysseus and Telemachus physically, but Apollo is looking after them in spirit, sending signs and signals to keep Telemachus especially safe.

(Od. Book 15, Telemachus warns about the state of Odysseus' house to Theoclymenus, a son of one of Apollo's prophets.)

There's also the fact that Odysseus makes sure to pray to Apollo before he attempts to string the bow:

(Od. Book 21. Beggar-Odysseus petitions to shoot his shot)

Likewise, before he slays the first suitor, Odysseus again prays for Apollo's guidance and gaze to guide his arrows:

(Od. Book 22. Odysseus commits the first of many (divinely-sanctioned) murders)

Also, as an additional thing, have Telemachus invoking Zeus, Athena and Apollo that he could see the suitors have their asses beat:

(Od. Book 18. Telemachus excitedly gushes to him mom about his cool new friend (Odysseus. Odysseus is the friend.)

There's a lot of minimisation of Apollo's role in the Odyssey because it isn't as bright and showy as his role was in the Iliad but hey, even there people tend to minimise how truly present Apollo is for the duration of the war when they're doing adaptations. Within Epic, the stage is already more than set for both Apollo and Athena to be there at the advent of Odysseus' revenge but none of that matters if that's not the creator's intention, y'know?

[beauty-and-passion]

also yes i think you should talk about dipcifica i love the old man yaoi as much as the next guy but i also will always crave this kind of "coming of age" love story

Glad to comply! Here are my points about why Dipcifica is canon and endgame and everything:

1) Dipper and Pacifica are a walking "enemies to friends to lovers" trope. It literally started with Dipper saying to her face he doesn't like her, what's more clichè than that? When he said it, all I could hear was "We will definitely become a thing in the future".

And guess what? After a while, Dipper changed his mind: now he doesn't think Pacifica is the worst anymore. The next step is admitting she's great, asking her out and becoming a couple.

2) "Northwest Mansion Mystery" is basically a huge Dipcifica manifesto, thanks to the introduction of more tropes like:

the characters are put into nice suits

Pacifica fixes Dipper's clothes like a good wife

these two share an adventure together - which is universally something that would strengthen the bond between two people

their daring escape ends with a hug, given out of a sincere emotional reaction

the hug is followed by some cute awkwardness (especially from Pacifica's side)

Dipper and Pacifica share a heartfelt moment in which she reveals her insecurities, something we can be 99% sure she doesn't usually do. Also because... with whom can she share them? Her parents? Her supposed friends?

Dipper changes his mind about Pacifica after understanding her a bit more (which is always the interlude for the development of romantic feelings)

Pacifica finds the strength to do the right thing, only after Dipper sacrifices himself

the episode ends with them having fun together, laughing and enjoying their time. Also, it's implied they probably spent some time after the party to clean up the mess they made - so who knows? Maybe they shared some more time together and talked a lot more.

I mean... I've seen love stories start with less than that.

3) Dipper and Pacifica have another adventure together in Lost Legends. The formula is similar to Northwest Mansion Mystery: Pacifica has an issue (caused by her shitty parents), Dipper doesn't understand what her problem is, they share a heartfelt moment in which she reveals her weakness, Dipper tells all the right things, they hug, Pacifica does the right thing.

This is another way to reconfirm what the episode in the series already told us: these two have chemistry. They are meant to be. They are a walking enemies to friends to lovers trope - with a side dish of "slow burn" too. And we all love slow-burn stories <3

But this adventure shows us something else: how things have changed since Northwest Mansion Mystery and especially how Dipper's attitude has evolved towards Pacifica. In the episode, he is still very wary of her and makes it clear multiple times that he dislikes her.

Now he says this:

This is basically the Dipcifica equivalent of "I once considered him the center of my life, the sun in my galaxy", only with less toxic old men yaoi and more wholesomeness

it shows how Dipper's attitude is more mature

it implies he can and will develop romantic feelings for her. I mean, look at it: "I've noticed another side of you", "I see the real one and you're more than a pretty face"... gosh, if Pacifica hadn't fallen in love before, she definitely did after that.

it also shows Dipper's growth regarding women: my boy went from making huge, complex plans to talk to them, to lying to get random girls, to saying the truth in such a smooth way. He's great with girls when he doesn't try, he makes me so proud <3

4) Now I know what you think: great points, Bea, but does this couple have Mabel's approval stamp? Billford got it with Mabel calling Bill a clingy ex and telling him to get a crush on someone else's Grunkle. Does Dipcifica have Mabel's approval?

The answer is yes:

Do I have to say anything else? I think Mabel already said anything. Dipper and Pacifica are. A. Thing.

And yes, I know what you might say: they are kids! Sure they are, but that doesn't mean there can't be anything in the future. There is time for them to grow and for these feelings to develop. What we saw in the series and in Lost Legends are the crumbs, the foundation of something bigger that can evolve in the future.

And this is a great foundation because it's plausible and stable. Dipper and Pacifica's interactions never sound forced or out of character: on the contrary, they are built in a way that conciliates both personalities and justifies their changes and evolution.

If we can easily imagine a future for them, it's because their change is organic, it works in the long run - Pacifica can easily become better and better, while she works out her issue and shows the beautiful person she is. And Dipper can easily become more and more aware of what a great girl she is and start to develop deeper feelings for her. It's not impossible to imagine. It works.

And yes, this proves again how well Hirsch developed Gravity Falls and its characters, if we can easily imagine a future for them just out of a few, well-built interactions.

[kirby-the-gorb]

[daily-odile]

Odile patting Molly Epithet Erased on the head, you know why

have two bc i care them

[thekittyokat]

Hi! Please please please, could you tell me more about your coffin chain ideas?/nf

I am obsessed but barely anybody has jumped onto the ship yet and I am VERY new to the fandom so I wanna wait with making it myself until I know more lol. You are lowkey fueling this entire operations and I wanna thank you for that either way.

(rubs my paws together) you have no idea what you've unleashed anon i've been holding onto this ask specifically bc i've been sapping dopamine from it like a little leech waiting until i had time to hastily doodle up a little dynamics timeline for different stages of the ot4

i REALLY hope this makes sense . i feel the need to say this every time i post abt coffinchain but my ideas are rly specific and i've had time for them to infect my brain like mold so i'm defo ready to accept this all being rly niche and really just for me and like 3 other people

buuut if this little peek into my mind speaks to ANY of y'all i absolutely encourage implore and beg you to send me asks and ideas and whatnot about these 4 bastards literally whenever you want!!

TL;DR one half of the trauma bonded couple reaches out and forms an immediate kinship with the big scary guy that no one likes & convinces his petty boyfriend to let him fw them. then he starts bringing his deranged fbi otter around they start double-dating only for it to become a situationship and then the worst polycule ever

[nomattertheoceans]

Would you mind expanding on the comment about Qimir being reluctant to strike down Jecki? I didn’t pick up on that myself so I’m just curious (from the post about Sol and Qimir)

Hi!! Of course I can explain what I meant 😁

So, here's how I interpreted things going down in that episode (sorry no gifs as I am getting ready for work so I don't have time, I'll try to explain as best I can without visual aid ^^). Sorry this got kind of long!!

Episode 5 starts, and Osha wakes up to a dead Jedi. She then watches as the masked figure we know to be Qimir fights head on three master Jedis at the same time, and wins rather easily against them. We see how deadly he is very early on.

His primary goal of the whole sequence is to get to Mae and kill her for her betrayal. If anything, I think the Jedi are anecdotal to him, they're in the way of his goal and he doesn't hesitate to kill them but they're not why he's here.

Then comes the fight with Jecki.

His actions with Jecki are way less deadly. And I'm not saying she's not fighting well because she is!! We saw her overpower Mae after all, she's definitely a strong Jedi and the duel between her and Qimir is intense!!

Their first spat ends with him kicking her in the stomach to throw her away and get to Mae. He even turns off his lightsaber because that's how little of a threat he considers Jecki to be (after all, the only one to actually overpower him at any point is Sol). He taunts Mae about Jecki being more loyal than she ever was and doesn't attack Jecki again until she comes back into the fight. If his goal was simply to kill all the Jedis that stand in his way, he would have killed her while she was on the ground like he tried to do to Yord earlier (when Osha stops him with her gun, you know?)

So anyway Jecki attacks again, she fights him with the two lightsabers (insanely good fight by the way omggggg) and Mae takes this time to try and run away. And when she does, Qimir just.... leaves the fights 😂 He breaks one of Jecki's sabers to distract her and then he's just gone!! he could not give less of a fuck lmao but again, he could have finished her off before going and he doesn't.

So, up until then I think you could interpret his actions as just caring more about killing Mae, but I think what comes after is the kicker.

When Jecki breaks his helmet and she sees his face, he reveals his second saber and she is dead in seconds. As he says after : "they see my face, they die."

The other Jedis he killed quite easily, they were an obstacle and he destroyed them. But for Jecki, he waited until he had what he considers to be no choice until he killed her. There's a clear difference.

And also there's a last detail that makes me think his perceived aloofness around her death is merely a facade.

He mentions Jecki three times to other people. Once to Mae when he still has his helmet, and twice to Sol when he just killed her.

"she's a loyal pupil"

"was that its name?"

"you brought her here"

Why would he suddenly use "it" to refer to her when he doesn't do it before or after? I argue that it's him dealing with his anger at having to have killed her. She forced him to reveal his face and I think he's trying to appear more monstrous than life by dehumanizing her in that moment, trying to make it seem like he was always going to kill her without a second thought (that shrug he does omg??). But we know he didn't actually kill her without a second thought or she'd have been dead when he disarmed her the first time.

The only thing that differentiates Jecki from the other Jedis is the fact that she's still a Padawan, so that's why I interpreted his reluctance to kill her as maybe a way to show us that he's reluctant to kill padawans in general, probably due to his own past.

I could obviously be wrong about all this! But that's how I interpreted his actions, anyway.

[dailynakaharachuuya]

6. Yokai AU

[sakura-chan-25]

I'm gonna lose it omg☠️

So for everybody not knowing yet, I'm writing about angels and demons in Christianity, Islam and Judaism for school related stuff.

Angels are basically done, now I need demons. Islam is done with that too, Christianity has to be shortened because I found too much and now I don't know what to put in and what not.

And Judaism... Well, I'm searching, but I can't find anything, so if anyone is jewish here could you please answer a little question?

Do you guys even believe in demons? Do they even exist for you? I know that Satan is kind of an angel too I guess, therefore, you know, I'm really questioning if there even are demons and if they are, where are the goddamn SOURCES FOR IT???

[gomzdrawfr]

mythology anon here again! Totally sorry for the late reply, I fell asleep before you answered my other ask lol

as for Orpheus and Eurydice, there isn’t much about either of them that isn’t mainstream myth other than a few cool details that come from oral discrepancies

for one, it’s very well possible that Orpheus had been a completely mortal Thracian king who fell in love with a nymph and wooed her with his song, but he could’ve also been the son of Apollo and the muse, Calliope- which would’ve explained why Apollo gave him his golden lyre in the first place

Orpheus was also said to have brought the worship of various gods to different regions during his travels

Orpheus also operated as a part of the Argonauts to help them escape from the Sirens

In some variations of the myth, Eurydice was killed by a viper that had been sent by her jealous sisters, while in others she fell into a pit of them escaping an assaulting satyr

and in one or two variations, Orpheus actually didn’t look back because of pride or fear or hubris, he’d just made it out of the underworld and looked back before Eurydice could as well

(that last one might be false, I vaguely remember some book talking about it, but I’ve read a good bit on Greek mythology, and I’ve only seen is corroborated on a lone Reddit thread- from which I quickly got distracted by a story of a non-consensual Dionysus ritual/offering 😬 [he would not like that])

-humble mythology anon 🏺

:o ooooooooooo nods nods nods thank you for sharing I love that

I’ve been seeing a few of their stories in ig, and so I wanted to learn sum about them :3

Some stuff I saved

[pitchcom]

Anyway leaving the Charles-Lando custody fight (+ Oscar i g). We need soft fernando and baby carlos moment 🤲 (srry lance but you need to step aside for this one, nando’s baby is here so 🫶)

omg yesss i feel like i havent focused on this enough !! lance is definitely pouty about it but even he knows hes fighting a losing battle when it comes to shy little big brown eyed carlos

after he gets babified, he gets offered multitudes of racing and chili-themed plushies/clothing/items from all kinds of people

but despite this his most prized possession is a big plush meerkat that was gifted to him by fernando that he custom ordered with a little ferrari shirt on. when he presented it to little carlos his eyes lit up and he immediately made grabby hands for it and now carries it all around the paddock. in the days following he immediately recieves a new collection of team merch shirts specially made for his meerkat (courtesy of all the other drivers) and fans love to document what shirt the meerkat is wearing today

fernando also loves to lug carlos around w him to all of his press engagements so that he can answer less questions and get out faster. he also loves showing off his shy little boy to all of the presenters and many a press conference has been derailed by fernando cooing over carlos falling asleep or vrooming around with his little cars. no one has been brave enough to ask fernando to leave carlos behind

[elitadream]

As we know that your Peach has healing powers, and we know that Peach has definitely healed Mario in the past, from injuries both great and small, has she ever healed Luigi?

I can imagine a scenario where she is tending to things in the castle and then have it all be interrupted by Mario bursting in , in a panic, eyes misty, looking so lost and helpless & he could barely get the words out, something was wrong with Luigi, either he’s holding his brother in his arms or he’s back at home in bed, and he needed Peach’s help. Help that he doesn’t even need to ask as she loves Luigi too, and is rushing to help in seconds.

Definitely, omg! 😭❤️‍🩹

Peach loves Luigi with all her heart. He's the brother she's never had, a dear confidant and most precious friend. If something happened to him, she would immediately drop whatever she's doing and leap to his side in a hurry, not hesitating for even a second before pouring her magic into him to heal his wounds, both visible and unseen. 🥺

I can see him apologizing weakly for the trouble, and Peach shushing him gently with a dismissive gesture, trying to keep him still and focused. Not caring one bit that her royal duties were disturbed in the worst possible way, anything other than his current state going out the window.

Mario would be sick with worry and guilt, fretting under barely contained anguish and panic until the spell would successfully spread and Luigi would finally recover. Going limp with a blissful sense of peace, falling asleep almost instantly due to the intensity of the soothing energy now flowing through his body.

Peach would be left feeling tired and slightly dizzy from the ordeal (as would be the case whenever she would use her powers without moderation or restraint), but would otherwise be content and relieved to see that Luigi is safe and well once more. Mario would thank her profusely for her invaluable help, his voice shaking and his vision blurry, asking that she may please give him permission to care for both his brother and Her Majesty for the rest of the day. Noting his steadfast and overwhelmed demeanor, she wouldn't have the heart to refuse, and so she would let herself be tended to along with Luigi during the following hours; however reassuring and praising Mario for his diligence whenever he would return to her. 💞

[gingermintpepper]

hi I love your tags so so much! they were so sweet and so interesting and creative and the whole Aphrodite type of beauty thing sounds really interesting do you have any articles and recommendations to read further into it??

-hogoflight

Hello my fine feathered (I am assuming possession of feathers if you are, indeed, capable of flight) @hogoflight! I'm always always happy to hear that people appreciate my frenzied rambling in the tags :D! I have a lot of articles and recommendations :D!! Ancient Greek notions of beauty and representations of it in their art and sculptures is a pretty well studied topic! There isn't any way for us now to know definitively what the beauty standard was (it varied widely from region to region and culture to culture after all) but here are a couple of my favourite reads about Aphrodite and what her representations tell us about idealised beauty!

Probably the most empirically extensive one I can list is Krönström's thesis which compares statues of Aphrodite and literary text referring to both the goddess and mortal women to determine physical ideals for women in five specific eras of Grecian antiquity. Including measurements of the statues there are many descriptions of Aphrodite as 'curvy' with a 'voluptuous figure' and with 'ample buttocks and bosom'.

"When the beauty traits are described in the texts, they are never extreme or anything that could not be found in normal people just that they are more beautiful in every aspect. Furthermore, the sculptures’ physical forms look healthy, they are tall and have distinct curves. Great examples of this are the Knida sculpture and de Milo (the Melian) sculpture."

Of course, these images are still idealised, and there was still a concept such as 'too fat' or 'too skinny' found in written records (and this thesis even includes analysis of pornographic writings and descriptions of the fashion and stylings of pubic hair of women from different regions!!) but from an interpretational standpoint? There is absolutely no reason why these can't refer to a fuller figure. Height was also a very important factor after all and over the course of many eras, it seems like being well proportioned in addition to the length and appearance of one's hair were the most important factors (and, like Apollo, greater beauty was given to those with curlier hair)

Mireille M. Lee's 'Other Ways of Seeing' essay which talks about the forgotten female viewers of Knidian Aphrodite which is also extremely illuminating on how Aphroditic sexuality and sensuality was perceived totally differently from the well documented male voyeuristic gaze (which was overly preoccupied with the statue's nakedness and therefore over-sensationalised the statue's physical appearance) vs women's perspective on the statue which is more centered on the beauty of simplicity in Aphrodite's garment and decoration and in her power and ability to captivate both in her finery and without it. I think it's especially useful in exploring the importance of finery, jewellry and adornment in representations of Aphroditic beauty.

"Some of the small-scale copies are heavily jeweled, especially those from the eastern Mediterranean, for example the Hellenistic gilded terracotta statuette in the Çanakkale Museum (Fig. 5) in which the goddess wears, in addition to the armband on her (right) arm, the following: a necklace with multiple pendants; cross-bands extending over both shoulders and hips, with a cascading pendant in the center; a coiled snake armband on the left arm and another snake on her left thigh, and a twisted anklet on her right leg. (The left leg has been restored, and might also have featured an anklet.)"

"Jewelry is especially associated with Aphrodite in Greek literature. As seen above, in the Homeric Hymn to Aphrodite, the goddess adorns herself with gold jewelry, dress-pins, and earrings in the shape of flowers (162–3)..."

Finally, and to me, the most important one in the argument for an interpretation of Hyacinthus as fat, beautiful and fundamentally Aphroditic comes from Brilmayer's brilliant brilliant thesis done on Aphrodite's work and influence in Archaic Greek Poetry which does away with all of that masculine preoccupation with physical proportion, measurement and bodily ideals for a focus on a Sapphic Aphroditic ideal centered in clothing, ornamentation and, most importantly cunning as symbols of Aphrodite and ultimately a feminine idealised form of beauty. This paper also discusses Pandora and Helen in these terms and it is just kind of a wonderful read tbh.

"Combining Homeric and Hesiodic elements with her own ideas, she [Sappho] alters the way female beauty is viewed. For example, the Homeric war chariot – a symbol of male, military prowess - comes to symbolise the totality of Aphrodite’s power uniting in itself male and female qualities. Having addressed the concept of beauty directly, Sappho then concludes that beauty lies in the eye of the beholder. With the help of Helen of Troy and her beloved Anaktoria, Sappho sets out to reinvent the concept of female beauty as a godlike, subjective quality that may be expressed in many ways, yet remains inspired by Aphrodite."

The conclusion to all of this of course is that Aphroditic ideal beauty is much more fluid compared to its stricter Apolline masculine standard. The nuances and understandings of both are of course, constantly being studied, analysed and scrutinised but really, if Dionysus who was both bearded and clean shorn, effeminate, birthed and rebirthed (and twice gestated!) and strongly associated with vegetation can be popularly portrayed as fat and handsome, why can't Hyacinthus?!