#Do you really think Marinette was aware that she was hurting Chat Noir and just willfully kept doing it?

[miraculouslbcnreactions]

It's weird to expect lb to be able to read cn mind and called her a bad partner for it. But it's even weirder for lb to ignore cn WHEN HES OBVIOUSLY IN DISTRESS and not called her a bad partner for it because I think called her a bad partner for ignoring it is understandable and justified especially since she consider herself as his boss.

Every time I bring up this conflict, I try to make it clear that I don't think Ladybug was blameless, I just think Chat Noir's writing was worse. Let's walk through the problem to show what I mean.

Season four stars with Marinette extremely stressed by her new Guardian status. In Truth and Lies, the first episodes of the season, we get this:

Ladybug: Will you cut it out with the practical jokes? I could have really hurt you! Cat Noir:(answering while hanging by the yo-yo) M'lady, the only thing that really hurts me is when you make me go on patrol by myself. (sighs, relaxing his posture) I even missed your little angry pout. Ladybug: Sorry, Kitty Cat, I'm a bit over my head at the moment. (pulling him up) Cat Noir: I bet! "Guardian of the Miraculous", big name, big responsibility!

This is also the start to Chat Noir communicating poorly. In this episode, he's straight up told that Ladybug is in over her head and he never once asks how he can help. In fact, we even get him saying this when asked how he feels about the change:

Truth: Cat Noir, tell me what- (interupted by Ladybug throwing a present at Truth) Ladybug: (covering her parasol with foil) ...do you think about my new role as guardian! Cat Noir: If it doesn't change things between us, then I'm good with it!

So not a great start to the season. I know people focused on Adrien's terrible treatment of Kagami in these episodes, but this Ladynoir dynamic was actually what rang alarm bells for me. I kept waiting for Chat Noir to offer his support since it was really, really obvious that Ladybug was in over her head since she was late to patrols, the last season literally ended with her losing her mentor figure, and, you know, she straight up told him that was what was going on?

The next episode is Gang of Secrets in which we see Marinette out her identity to Alya. I get why she did this, she needed support and her partner doesn't seem interested in giving it, but she can't say that for certain because she never asked him directly and she should have. Trusting Chat Noir over Alya would have allowed Ladynette to maintain the security of her secret identity - a thing she claimed was more important than ever - and to honor their partnership. At the very least, she should have told Chat Noir that Rena Rouge was now a full time holder so that he could account for that in battle and to minimize the fallout by owning up to her mistake asap. The longer a lie goes on, the worse the truth will hurt.

To Ladybug's credit, she does eventually acknowledge her mistake after the Scarabella incident:

Ladybug: You... must've been pretty surprised to discover there was another holder! (Silence. She sits beside Cat Noir.) Ladybug: I'm really sorry, Cat Noir. I should've told you. I mean, if I found out that you told someone about your secret identity, I'd... probably be upset, too. I'm really sorry I hurt your feelings.

This is a decent apology. She doesn't try to absolve herself of wrong doing. Instead, she acknowledges that what she did would hurt her, too, if the shoe were on the other foot. The only thing she loses points on is the fact that she doesn't tell him about Rena Furtive.

However, instead of agreeing with her and telling her that she has hurt him, Chat Noir says that she did nothing wrong and never once brings up how their weakened partnership is bothering him:

Cat Noir: You didn't hurt my feelings. You did everything right. Paris will always need a Ladybug superhero to watch over her. It's just... I realized that if one day that hero wasn't you, m'lady, since we don't know each other's identities, that means... I'd never see you again. Ever. And now, I just don't know if I can bear it.

This is the thing that I hate about this arc. The reason why I say Ladybug is blamed for not reading his mind. Especially because, three episodes later, we get Rocketear, which gives us this:

Cat Noir: Everyone has doubts now and then, (looks down) even me... Ladybug: Is everything okay, Cat Noir? Cat Noir: Yeah, yeah. (prepare his fist) Pound it! Ladybug: (fistbumps) Pound it!

Rocketear is the episode where Nino outs that he and Alya know each other's identities while acting like Ladybug said identities weren't a big deal even though that is very much not what happened. You'd think that Chat Noir would want to know the full story, but instead he just lies and says that everything is fine.

So we have two situations where the show allowed Ladybug to give Chat Noir a chance for clear and open communication and both times he turns her down.

What's worse is that he clearly starts making up stories in his head, leading to Kuro Neko, which starts with Adrien avoiding a fight on purpose as some sort of shit test. He then gets upset when Ladybug... doesn't lament his absence on national TV?

Clara: (from TV) By the way, where's Cat Noir? You've saved Paris without him quite a few times recently. Are you two at odds with each other? Carapace, Pegasus, Vesperia and Pigella: (from TV) Pound it! Ladybug: (from TV) Of course not, it's just that... umm, he's a partner like any other! The most important is to pick the best superheroes for each mission, with or without Cat Noir. No matter what, we've got a great team and we'll always be here to save Paris. (Adrien is shocked.) Adrien: (turns off the TV and sighs) "A partner like any other..."

Dude, what did you want her to do here? Complain that you flaked on her? Make Paris feel less safe by saying she doesn't know where you are? Imply that the fight was barely won without you? What are you doing? Plagg, you are completely failing as a mentor right now.

The shit test continues as Chat Noir goes to meet up with Ladybug now that the battle is over, arriving just as Ladybug has finished instructing the team on what to do:

Ladybug: Come on, guys! Hurry up before you all detransform. I'll meet you at rendezvous points. (The heroes jump away in different directions, and Ladybug starts typing something on her Yo-yo.) Cat Noir: Hey! Meow are you, m'lady? Ladybug: Great, thanks, but I gotta go retrieve all these Miraculous. Cat Noir: I could lend you a paw to help save time. Ladybug: Thanks, kitty cat, but it's a guardian's job to do it. Cat Noir: I know who some of them are, remember? I was there when you first gave them their Miraculous! Ladybug: You don't even know where their rendezvous points are, I don't have time to— Cat Noir: Playing cat and mouse is my forte, you know— Ladybug: (yelling) If you wanna save me time, stop wasting it in the first place! (Cat Noir gasps. As Ladybug swings away, Cat Noir clenches his fist.) Cat Noir: And take my Miraculous back when you're done!

So Ladybug doesn't publicly chastise Chat Noir for missing the battle and rejects an offer to help because of very legitimate timing concerns, leading to Chat Noir quitting because she failed his stupid, petty, childish tests. Realistic writing? Yes. Writing that paints Ladybug as the one in the wrong? No.

Going into this episode, Ladybug has no idea that things are messed up between them even though she has actually kept communication lines open. She asks him if things are okay, but he lies. And when he's ready to quit? He plays stupid games and wins a stupid prize. It's really not shocking that the next scene sees Ladybug totally baffled by what just happened:

Plagg: For a while now, you've been neglecting this camembert— I mean Cat Noir, and going on adventures with the all other cheeses! Ladybug: But he should be happy about it, it gives him more time off. Plagg: Cat Noir doesn't wanna have time off, Ladybug! He is in love with you! And your persistent calling on all the other heroes has broken his heart.

And how is she supposed to know that, Plagg? Was she supposed to assume that her partner was lying when he said he was fine? Because she did ask and he said that nothing was wrong. But something was wrong and it lead him to build up a story in his head, reading nonexistent intent into her actions, all of which is toxic and unhealthy communication.

I cannot stress how common this shit is. I've seen it so many times and I will own that I've done it in the past and wound up getting no support when I needed it because I'd directly told people I didn't and they committed the heinous crime of... believing me.

Here's the other thing, there are times when I'm in distress and legitimately don't want or need help. Times when I just need to be alone for a bit. So if someone asks me if I'm okay during those times, I'm probably just going to say, "Yeah, I just need a people break" or something like that. That's why the Scarabella scene is so bad. Ladybug can see that Chat Noir is in distress and he gives her a fully plausible answer: I'm not upset with you, I'm just saddened by the idea of losing you. And she believes him because why wouldn't she?

Same goes for Rocketear. It's reasonable for Ladybug to assume that Chat Noir is just shaken by the fight. She has no idea about the bombshell that Nino dropped right before the fight. She doesn't even know that Nino and Chat Noir are actually close friends, making this fight a lot more devastating than it looks at face value. Her actions here are not objectively wrong. They're only wrong if you know the whole story, including Adrien's needs. Things that she cannot know unless Chat Noir uses his words to tell her things.

I cannot over stress how much season four is a textbook example of denying yourself support because you cannot communicate your own needs. Is it an understandable character flaw for a character with Adrien's background to have? Yes. Absolutely. 100%. But it's still a character flaw. This season desperately needed an arc about Adrien learning to tell people what's wrong. Not because he's the only one in the wrong here, but because things cannot get better when Ladybug has no idea that she's hurting him. (Nino has no idea either, but let's keep our focus on Ladybug.)

One of the most important things you can do for your own mental well being is to dismiss the idea that your needs are the same as everyone else's. Everyone needs different amounts of attention and values different behavior based on things like their upbringing and life events.

I get the feeling that I'm wired pretty similar to Marinette. At least, it influences how I write her because I can go months without talking to my best friends and still call them my best friends, a trait we all share because two of use are artsy introverts and two of us are moms to young kids, which allows for very little free time. Meanwhile, my SO and his best friend spend hours on the phone almost every week. I swear that those two go into withdrawal if they don't talk at least once every seven days. If months went by without them talking? Something would be very wrong, but the exact same time gap isn't even remotely concerning when it comes to my friends. It's something my SO and I had to figure out when we got together because I need a lot less attention than he does. But we communicated and found a balance that we continue to work to communicate about so that he doesn't feel neglected and I don't feel overwhelmed by too little me time.

What I'm trying to say is Marinette wasn't horribly wrong for assuming that Chat Noir was telling her the truth or that he liked having a larger team so he had less responsibility. Those are reasonable assumptions. Especially since he never actually indicated that he wanted more responsibility until he was ready to quit and decided to shit test her by pushing for more to do when she was stressed and on a timer.

I do think that she should have offered it to him before that or - at the very least - the show should have clearly stated why she didn't do that since it apparently had nothing to do with Chat Blanc trauma like we all thought it did. I'm not saying that she's blameless or perfect or that there weren't things she could have done better. It's just really hard for me to look at Chat Noir's behavior in season four and go, "Oh yeah, he's the injured party here. Ladybug holds all the blame and did everything wrong." She did many things wrong, but generally speaking, she owned her faults and tried to keep communication channels open. Chat Noir chose to ignore those chances to talk or otherwise try to express his needs in a clear and understandable manner.

We'll end with one final point to drive this home: You said that she's his boss. Well, if my boss asked me, "is everything okay with the project?" and I said, "yes" while freaking out about the upcoming deadline that I'm probably going to miss because he's given me too much work, the issue is not all on my boss. It's on both of us. Him for overloading me and me for not telling him I'm overloaded. You could even argue that it's mostly on me because I'm the only one who can properly gauge my own ability to do a given workload. As soon as it was too much, I should have said something. And if I don't feel like my boss is approachable? Then I should quit. But that isn't the situation I'm in and it doesn't appear to be the one that Chat Noir was in, either. He wanted to stay part of the team, he just totally failed to tell Ladybug how being on the team was making him feel.

People magically knowing what you need and how you feel is a myth. I promise you, most people in this world do not want to cause you pain, but if you cannot clearly express when someone is causing you pain, then you will continue to get hurt by people who would be very happy to not hurt you if they actually knew that their actions were causing you pain.

[flightfoot]

Uh, sorry, "kids show" anon here. I just realized my ask implied things I don't believe in. I do think heavy topics like gaslighting can be explored in a kids show. I just don't think it can be done in THIS way. ML is an action/romcom. Respectfully exploring Marinette's actions requires downtime that's not allowed to exist. Then there is the "our role model can't be openly portrayed as toxic to her bf" thing, because how are we gonna sell toys? Parents might be mad.

The gaslighting thing is iffy. Like on the one hand, the effect of her lying that Monarch was blackmailing Gabriel and Tomoe by threatening Adrien and Kagami, and that they were sent to London to protect them, IS to make Adrien think that everything awful Gabriel's done, especially recently, was actually in an attempt to protect him, which neuters Adrien's slowly growing awareness that Gabriel's an abusive asshole, which he got to finally yell at him for in Representation.

Nightormentor: Adrien! Adrien! Cat Noir: I don't think I'd like having a father like you! (attacks Nightormentor with his staff) Nightormentor: If I were your father, I would start by teaching you some manners! Cat Noir: (after kicking Nightormentor) And if I were your son, I'd tell you you can't always make decisions for people — that to have a child is to help them blossom, to grow, to find themselves and to be free!(lands a final blow on Nightormentor and tackles him on the ground, stepping on his arm to make sure he will not get away once more) Nightormentor: You're insolent! Cat Noir: You're insolent! Cataclysm! I feel sorry for your son. Nightormentor: Don't be. He's very happy. (And right after that, Nightormentor catches Cat Noir off-guard and takes the opportunity to send him flying once again and shoots him with pink dust, bringing Cat Noir on his knees and awakening his greatest nightmare) Nightormentor: It's time for you to learn to respect adults, child, and to pay the price for your defiance and disrespect! Cat Noir: No! (grunts)

On the other hand, I don't think Marinette realized what that lie would truly mean. I think, being the child of some really nice parents, that she genuinely thought that Adrien believing that Gabriel was always a good person would be better for him, not realizing the cognitive dissonance that arises between how she made Gabriel out to be with her lie, and the things Gabriel actually did to Adrien. It doesn't make what Marinette did right, but I think this was a case of profound ignorance rather than malice, and it's something that she'd do her best to correct if she realized.

We've seen this sort of thing with Marinette before, where she genuinely didn't seem to realize the effects of her actions until something happened that got her to view the situation in a new light. Like with how she treated Kagami in season 3, with her joining up with Chloe to get Kagami covered in food, or in Ikari Gozen when she pretended to want to be friends with Kagami so she could secretly sabotage her attempt to spend time with Adrien. I don't think she actually was thinking in terms of "I want to hurt Kagami" either time, she just... didn't actually seem to perceive her as having feelings and being capable of being hurt. It's why I wrote a fic awhile ago where the plan in Animaestro worked and Marinette's horrified at how much she and Chloe hurt Kagami. That would obviously be the outcome, but she just... didn't realize what that meant.

We do see her realize and start to empathize with Kagami once she roots through her phone at least, and sees that Kagami has been sincerely trying to make friends with her, and she starts perceiving Kagami as a person instead of merely an obstacle.

Tikki: What are you doing? Marinette: Nothing. Tikki:(glares) She placed her trust in you when she gave you her phone. Marinette: But she kept looking at it the whole time. Don't you wanna know why? For all we know she could've been chatting with Adrien, texting him, who knows what else? Tikki: Marinette, no! Marinette:(opens the messages app) Huh–? Zero messages except the ones from the contest. (opens the contacts app) And there's only one number in her list of contacts: her mom's. She doesn't even have Adrien's number? (clicks on a third app) What's this app? Oh shoot! So this is what Kagami was looking at the whole time. Tikki: Learning tips for making friends. Marinette: That explains everything. Her strange behavior, her weird questions. Tikki: Kagami was just trying to be your friend. Marinette: I feel so bad. Oh no! She's got my phone. If she sneaks a peak, she'll see the messages Alya and I were sending each other. Tikki: Do all humans really sneak through other people's things? (Marinette smiles guiltily) You better run!

I think that if Marinette realized the actual effect of her lies on Adrien, what her statements actually meant, she'd do her best to own up to what she did and to fix it to the best of her abilities. Granted, some things can't be repaired, but she could resolve the cognitive dissonance for Adrien at least by telling the truth, affirming that what Gabriel did to him was terrible and wrong, even if he did, at the end at least, do one good thing by healing Nathalie so that Adrien would have SOMEONE.

[manysad]

Thank you to everyone on the miraculous fanworks discord for brainstorming this thing with me.

So, the idea behind the au (which was spawned from a train of thought that's perfectly coherent to me but I'm not going to try to explain it) is that all the sentibeings created by Emilie and everyone after her are modeled as living inanimate objects (or rather, animate objects) instead of organics- Duusu's too incoherent to tell them that they can make humans.

From here there's multiple variants about how it all goes down but this is what I'm going with:

Emilie instead decided to focus on being a good cool aunt and/or godmother to kids that already exist. Like her good friend Andre's daughter, who seemed to be having a rough time of it and didn't really have any equal playmates or adults to pay attention to her. Since Emilie can only do so much and be around so often, she decided to use the peacock to make Chloe a little shoulder angel- so she wound up making Adrien anyway, as a plush cat. (He's mentally about the same age as Chloe with whatever voice coming out of his mouth reflecting that, but slightly more mature by design.) After a month or so preparing Adrien, she sneakily left him with Chloe and just let the two bond naturally. (The amok is a golden bell which she put in a box in the safe- Gabriel knows about it and knows what it is and while he didn't really understand why she did any of this he respected her decisions.)

Now, Amelie and Colt found out about this and Colt naturally insisted he be allowed to make himself a son. Colt does not have any imagination whatsoever so he just copies what Emile did, so his son is a plush cat. Duusu's still in no state to tell him that he could've made a human boy. Colt hates his son just as much as Amelie decided to love him. Felix is quite possibly more miserable than in canon.

Meanwhile, Tomoe, who IS creative, made Kagami as a life size porcelain doll, (think Battle Angel Alita)

So that way Kagami could be a fencing prodigy just the way Tomoe wants her to be. Her life is the least different between the three, but she is fully aware she's not human and hides her face in public.

As for how the plot goes down:

Adrien and Chloe grow up together, the list of people who know about Adrien being alive is pretty short but it does include anybody close to Chloe, so Andre, Sabrina, and even Marinette. He had some bad experiences early on (falling asleep out in the open in Chloe's room and getting put in the washing machine by staff because he was dusty, for instance. It wouldn't hurt, he can't really feel anything worse than extreme discomfort, but it would still be scary.) so he tries to avoid being seen at all by people he doesn't already know if he can help it.

Since Chloe can accurately be described as a good person now, having multiple people in her life care how she turns out did wonders, she passes Fu's test and is chosen to be the black cat. He slips the box into her purse (where Adrien also happens to be).... but she never finds out. Debris from Stoneheart smacks her in the head and she's knocked completely unconscious. Adrien and the box go tumbling out of her bag- since Chloe obviously can't wield the ring this way, and it's not like Fu ever tells him anything anyway, as the only conscious sapient being in the area Plagg gives Adrien the rundown and tells him how to transform, telling him that there will be a partner and that partner will have the power to reverse all the damage, so Chloe will be fine.

The transformation fully changes Adrien so that, for all intents and purposes, while he's transformed as Chat Noir he is a human (plus some cat features) and has no visible differences from how he looks in canon. (The same will go for Argos and Ryuko.)

Fu never double checks anything so going forward he thinks that Chloe is Chat Noir and just has some gender stuff going on. He's never around for any instances where Chloe and Chat Noir would be in the same physical space at the same time that couldn't be explained by other phenomena. He'd probably have a conniption if he found out the truth.

[theerurishipper]

I know Elation is a fan favorite episode of S5 but looking back at it, how Marinette took advantage of Chat not knowing taht she's Ladybug to get him to stil date and kiss her really spiraled down into gross territory and once again it was ADRIEN who was told to do better and improve by taking accountability while Marinette continued crying and getting cuddled by the narrative.

Chat noir at least deceived with open cards, it's obvious that there is a person underneath his mask (even if Marinette never acts like it) but Ladybug didn't get her kissy kissy meow meow and then proceeded to let Chat shower Marinette Dupain-Cheng in all the affection she craves even though one would think Marinette too has a moral obligation in this partnership to protect Chat from any kind he feelings he has for her civilian side since Ladybug and Marinette are the same person and therefore there is logically a special draw that leaves him vulnerable to be taken advantage of by her (the way it literally happened twice, in Elation AND Glaciator 2, where both times Marinette used her civilian side to basically make Chat do whatever she wants as Ladybug).

A draw that interestingly the show had ADRIEN take full accountability for when he thought that's what happened with Marinette in Elation. That because she was so in love with Adrien Agreste she then also had unexplainable feelings for Chat this whole time that echo said civilian love, which ended up hurting her emotionally bc of their complex nature.

ADRIEN was made to take accountability for doing that, Marinette has been benefiting from the way Chat's love for Ladybug also draws him to Marinette Dupain-Cheng for seasons by now (even Weredad in s3) and it just gets swept under the rug. In fact, shes REWARDED for doing that by Adrien then blaming himself for everything and be her prince charming and do all the work for their relationship.

That is.. genuinely gross.

The way the episode AND Marinette both pretend like Marinette is a poor little civilian bystander in this scenario of Elation and NOT civilian Ladybug is pretty damn gross. Cause Ladybug is by the nature of the situation taking advantage of Chat being oblivious to her secret identitiy, who he didn't wanted to be in a relationship with anyone, since lets not kid ourselves Chat at the end of Determination couldn't have rejected her more directly in the most INDIRECT language even if he tried. I don't know how people look at these episodes and genuinely think Adrien isn't aware that LB is flirting as if he had no braincells.

Mate, he very obviously turned her down in Determination and from then onwards continued to non stop run towards Marinette as civilian bc after Determination Ladybug herself refused to take the "no" which she in Determination itself clearly understood it to be. The drastic shift between Marinette crying at the end of Determination and her being love obsessed in Passion makes sense and it results in the disaster of Elation.

It's just...man, the way Chat in Elation opens up to Marinette about how he thinks people wouldn't like him so much anymore if they knew who was under the mask, which for Marinette sounds like Chat is saying that he views Chat Noir as all the value he has as a person, and her then straight up replying that "she doesn't mind him wearing a mask, it doesn't matter who is underneath" is... gurl, who SAYS that? 😭

And the reason why she got away with it is bc Adrien's actually problem is the complete opposite. That Adrien fears that if people knew that Chat Noir is Adrien Agreste Chat would just.. stop existing to the world and Adrien Agreste™ would overwrite anything Chat ever made for himself.

Tahts why he while unhealthily craving love too reacted WELL to her saying she doesn't mind him wearing a mask and that it doesn't matter to her who's underneath.

But GURL, Marinette! From your perspective he just told you that he thinks the person he is underneath has no value and Chat is all he has to find self-worth in. And you just fucking AGREED with him that the person underneath doesn't matter bc you wanted kiss kiss meow meow and Chat's mask is what you wanted to kiss you?? 😱😭

Why is Marinette always written in the way where one seriously has to question if she even acknowledges BY SEASON 5 that Chat Noir exists as a civilian? Its not like her leadership paints any other picture than her apparently thinking Chat just spawns into existence for akumas and that's it.

Add that on top of her ignoring it when they kiss that Chat horrified rips open his eyes once he realizes taht what he's doing is wrong. Her just closing her eyes again bc apparently she genuinely didn't care for more than kiss kiss meow meow in that moment?

Then him trying to tell her that what they're doing is wrong and her just saying anything she thinks will make him go back to kissing her and whne he still refuses she has a whole mood swing, angrily yelling that she has had it with everyone telling her who she gets to love, saying taht SHE wants to finally decide that while starting to cry and, like, I GET her frustration but what she's doing is so guilt tripping by nature that it blows anything inappropriate out of the water Chat Noir ever did to Ladybug??

The person Marinette is kissing tells her no bc he doesn't feel comfortable about it morally bc of the circumstances and Marinette goes off in his face, saying that SHE decides who she kisses and loves and that she's had it that other people decide that for her, as if Chat has no right to possibly tell her no?? That he's a horrible Jerk for going against her decision to now make out with him and date him and she's OWED taht he does it??

Marinette continues literally bawling her eyes out in front of Chat who's feeling extremely guilty about all this and then Marinette is mere seconds away from accepting getting akumatized with the goal of revealing Chat's secret identitiy so he has no excuse anymore to deny her her kiss. An akumatization that only doesn't happen because Adrien is being forced to disregard his own boundaries he set with her and kiss her despite it making him EXTREMELY uncomfortable and feeling guilty of taking advantage of her. Making HIM start to freak out to out of guilt.

Afterwards Marinette is terrified but not because of her almost having turned into Chat's enemy and put his life, loved ones and Paris at risk bc he told her no, but because of the akumatization in general.

Topping it all of with Marinette saying that THEY really act irrationally because of their love, when, gurl, HE got his shit together minutes ago. YOU refused to let Chat Noir tell you no even just ONE time in any of your dynamics with him.

By that point taht wasn't a WE, that was a YOU. And the person who had to actually take fully accountability for this narrative wise was HIM.

Not to mention that Chat in the akuma battle had to finally find the courage to tell Ladybug no DIRECTLY in her face, and that he doesn't love her anymore the way he once did but only as a friend, and dead ass Marinette leaves in the next episode ruining the Hack-San ending.

Bc she was told no by Chat.

He doesn't love her romantically anymore, just as a friend, which apparently is still a horrible fate for Marinette as she's consistently characterized since s1 to concider being friends an unbearable torture inflicted on her. Something which ADRIEN in Protection then had to take accountability for too??

What is even happening anymore??

This is an interesting take! There are some things I agree with, and some things I disagree with, but it's still nice to hear your thoughts, anon. Thank you for your ask!

[mariharem-trash-heap]

Talk Her Down

The inevitable seems to have finally happened: Marinette gets akumatized after a friend gets hurt in the crossfire between her and Lila - and it’s up to her friends and classmates to do what they can to calm her down before Ladybug can purify her akuma.

Notes:

I really, really love the trope of “this isn’t you, I know you’re in there, let me talk you down”. ESPECIALLY when it’s between friends. It’s just so (chef’s kiss)

Also yes, I’m well aware eastern and western dragons are largely different - I’m keeping mostly elements from eastern dragons because they’re super cool and underrated over here in the west.

(This will have hints at a Mariharem (but I couldn’t resist adding a lot more Lukanette because that ship still has my heart, sue me)

What began as a bright, sunny day had suddenly grown dark, sinister clouds rising to shun the sun and bathing the city of Paris in a thick gray curtain of dread.

Civilians looked on in horror from the relative safety of their homes at the giant red and black dragon weaving her way through the air, steam hissing from her nostrils, gleaming golden eyes narrowed in rage.

“LILA!” A thundering roar reverberated through the streets. Whoever remained outside had to clap their hands over their ears lest the painful ringing the sound caused actually did them damage as raindrops began to fall from the skies.

The softest tinkling of bells in the akuma’s wake was offset by another earsplitting roar, masking the panting of the two heroes trying to follow her.

“Man, who gave her control over the weather?” Chat Noir complained, eyes narrowed against the growing sprinkling of rain.

“I think it’s-- a culture thing?” Chanceux answered hesitantly, eyes darting back and forth as they vaulted another rooftop. His fingers were beginning to slip. “We need to change her back before all of Paris floods!”

Chat winced, troubling memories resurfacing. “Yeah,” he quietly murmured.

“Marinette!” Alya shouted from the roof of Le Grand Paris, squinting against the pounding rain.

The dragon whipped her head around, and glinting eyes settled squarely on the reporter, just a tiny, tiny figure on the roof below her.

“Mari, hey,” she continued, her tone dropping into a more soothing one. “Look, I know you’re upset - but you can’t let Hawkmoth get to you! You’re hurting people!”

“Hurting people?!” She exclaimed. “Lila has been the one hurting people for far too long! She needs to face the consequences of hurting my friends!”

Alya tried her best not to heave a frustrated sigh. “I know! I know, believe me, Marinette, I know. But what you’re doing - this isn’t you! The Marinette I know would never hurt so many innocent people like this!”

For a moment, she thought she saw something flicker by the akuma’s eyes - something troubled.

“Please,” she pleaded, reaching out to her friend. “Fight him, Marinette. You’re better than him.”

It seemed to have worked. And then that irritating glowing purple outline appeared before her face and she let loose another earth-shaking roar; and with a rush of wind so strong it nearly blew her off of the building, the akuma - Marinette - had gone.

Alya huffed, raising her phone to speak clearly into it, “Sorry guys, I tried. She’s beyond even listening to me.”

“Got it, babe,” Nino answered, before hanging up and slipping his phone back into his pocket. Turning around, he surveyed the members of Kitty Section... minus their guitarist.

“Where’s Luka?” Mylene wondered aloud, worry knitting her brow.

“He...” Juleka hesitated, but Rose’s comforting arm around her shoulders helped her finish, “...he wanted to try and talk her down. I told him it was a stupid idea, but he insisted.”

“If he can’t do it, we won’t be able to either,” Ivan admitted glumly.

Rose looked around the group in desperation. “But we’ve got to try something! That’s Marinette!” She cried, turning her pleading gaze on her girlfriend. “None of us liked to be akumatized, did we?”

An awkward air hung around as the rest of them either shook their heads or mumbled various “no”s and “not really”s.

“It’s not our faults we were akumatized,” the blonde reasoned. “I know I would’ve loved someone to help me fight off Hawkmoth’s butterfly.”

Juleka turned to her, a soft, solemnness to her eyes. “But would you have listened?”

Here, Rose opened her mouth to reply... then a few seconds later, shut it and slowly shook her head.

“We’ve still got to try something,” Ivan repeated, raising his drumstick. “For Marinette.”

“For Marinette,” Mylene echoed.

“For-”

“Marinette!” Nino exclaimed, finally spotting the serpentine akuma slither its way through the clouds.

It almost appeared she didn’t hear them, but finally she slowly turned to fix a hard stare on the group. Steam hissed again from her nose, as if in an annoyed snort. Something akin to frills - or spikes? - flared back and forth down her back, jet-black fading to white tips.

“Marinette!” Nino repeated, relief flooding his voice as he adjusted his glasses. “Oh, dude! We’ve been worried sick-- hey, where are you going?!”

She didn’t dignify him with an answer, turning back and returning to her course.

Nino watched her go, agape in shock.

“We tried,” Juleka heaved a sigh and patted his shoulder. “It’s up to the rest, now.”

“Luka...” she quietly wondered to herself, “... where are you? Please be safe...”

“Ugh, why am I here again?” Chloe huffed, turning her back on the group in the courtyard.

“Maybe if we use you as bait, we can keep her in one place for long enough that Chat Noir and Ladybug--” Alix hesitated, “--Chanceux can purify her.”

“That’s ridiculous. Utterly ridiculous. Do you want all of us to become fish food?” The blonde demanded. “Sabrina, we’re leaving.”

For once, the redheaded girl hesitated, watching Chloe begin to walk off.

Once she registered that no footsteps were echoing behind her, the rich girl paused, turning back with a raised brow. “Well? We don’t have all day, Sabrina - I’m already soaked enough as it is from all this stupid rain.”

All eyes fell to the girl, who shrank a little from the scrutiny. Alix and Kim looked to her in disdain, Chloe, expectant, and Max was still searching the clouds.

“I... no,” she murmured.

“What?” Chloe squinted, leaning in with a hand cupped to her ear. “I didn’t hear you. Speak up, will you?”

“I said no,” Sabrina stated forcefully, more forcefully than she meant to, judging by the surprise in her face. “I’m staying here. I...” she glanced to Max before looking her friend in the face, “I want to help Marinette too.”

It was silent for a second, save for the pounding rainstorm. Chloe was utterly aghast.

Then the blonde scoffed, whirling around and walking away. “Whatever, your loss. I’m going home where it’s warm and safe.”

“Wait, there she is!” Max suddenly exclaimed, pointing to the skies. The other students crowded around, watching a bright red line rushing through the clouds, cutting clean through the gray like a bullet.

“Marinette!” Kim bellowed as loud as he could. “We need you to stop!”

Unsurprisingly, she didn’t give a single indication that she’d heard.

Max paused, pondering something quietly to himself for several long seconds. When Chloe gave another dismissive scoff, he looked up, a newfound determination in his eyes. “I’ve got an idea; but first, who has Lila’s number?”

“Luka, where in the hell are you?” Juleka questioned.

“Nowhere you should go to in this weather,” he answered, balancing the phone between his cheek and shoulder as he got off the bike. Pulling off his helmet, he returned his phone to his hand and looked around. “Wait for me at the Liberty. I’ll be back as soon as I talk to her.”

“You’re crazy, you know that? She didn’t even listen to us.”

“She’s... so angry, right now,” he murmured, and a chord of pain struck his chest as he heard another angry roar ripple through the sky. “I’m hoping I can at least keep her for a minute - but if I’m lucky...”

“If you’re lucky, she’ll decide to spare you,” his sister huffed. After a second of silence on her end, she added, “The band is worrying about you. Hurry up and come home.”

Luka managed a chuckle at the warmth belied in her voice. “Will do.”

As he hung up the phone, he walked through the park until he finally came to the spot - and pulled out his guitar.

“Marinette!” He called, seeing her soaring above.

At the sound of his voice, the thunderous rain seemed to lessen in intensity for a moment - and so did the heat in her eyes as she turned to hover above the park.

Smiling up at her, he ran a hand through his drenched hair and pulled out a pick. “I know you’re angry right now... horribly angry... but I want you to hear something.”

Tilting her head slightly, she gave no indication she would take off.

Strumming a few chords, he began to play a song - one that he knew almost as well as his own, or his sister’s, or his mother’s. As he looked up at her, he could see her golden eyes closing, an echo of the day they met.

“Is it working?” He questioned, sparing a glance up at her hovering form. “Can I finally... be the one to calm her anger, just as she tried to bring me back all that time ago?”

The next time he looked up at her, his hopeful smile fell into a despairing gape as a familiar purple mask faded before her eyes, and they reopened - full of pain and anger.

“Marinette--!” he began, but his guitar slipped from his hands as giant, gleaming talons wrapped about him, tight enough so that he couldn’t wiggle free.

“Marinette!” Another voice yelled, and the akuma turned with a growl at the people leaping into the park.

Chat Noir and Chanceux led the charge, a group of teenagers following close behind. With them was a familiar person wrapped up like a package, angry and glaring - until she saw the akuma.

Lila squeaked, struggling against the rope. “When you said you were going to get help, this is NOT what I--”

“LILA!” The akuma’s roar dizzied them for a few moments, and the rain began to pelt them like hail.

“Marinette, stop!” Chanceux exclaimed, darting in front of the girl as the dragon dropped Luka only a foot to the ground in anticipation of grabbing her instead. “This is what you wanted, right? You wanted Lila? Why?”

“Because she hurt Marc!” The dragon snarled, eyes flashing in fury at the memory. “She ruined his comic because he stood up for me!”

“Mari, Marc is okay,” the red-and-black-spotted hero tried to soothe, raising his hands placatingly. “So what if Lila ruined ou-- his comic? He’s already planning on making a better one!”

Marc chose that moment to hobble over from the crowd, trying to smile up at the serpent with tearstained cheeks.

“Marc...” The akuma murmured, all heat gone from her voice. “Your eyeliner is running.”

“Oh, is it?” His smile dropped, and he swiped at his eye with his thumb. Sure enough, a smudge of black stained it. “Well, that’s no big deal, is it? I’m more worried about you.”

“We all need you to shake off Hawkmoth,” Alya pleaded next. “We’re here to help. You would’ve done the same for us. It’s only fair we do the same thing for you.”

“We love you, Marinette,” Rose implored. “Please.”

The akumatized girl looked back and forth between her friends, brow knit in indecision.

Suddenly Hawkmoth’s voice snarled in her ears. “What are you doing, Huangdi?! You need to take the Miraculous!”

Clenching her eyes shut in pain, she screamed as a wave of agony flooded over her through the mindlink.

“He’s hurting her!” Ivan exclaimed.

“Quick, Chanceux,” Chat said, catching the hero’s attention, “where is the akumatized item? Do you see it?”

Scanning the creature, the hero’s brow knit together in confusion - until he saw it.

“The tail,” he stated. “The object is wrapped around the tail.”

Chat looked, and indeed, it was a beaded object tightly strung around it. His throat constricted, and his heart began to race - he recognized it.

“Do we have to break it to get the butterfly?” He questioned aloud.

“I hope we don’t,” the ladybug hero answered softly. “How can we talk her down with Hawkmoth abusing the mindlink?”

A cry from the dragon interrupted their little talk, and the two looked back to see the dragon land with a thud on the ground, her magnificent length spreading across the entirety of the park as she tried to cover her ears with her talons.

“Marinette!” Alya cried in alarm, rushing over to her.

“Please, please make it stop,” Huangdi begged, tears filling her eyes.

The group froze in fear.

Then, Rose spoke up. “Group hug!”

Determinedly marching over, she reached out and wrapped her arms around one of the dragon’s, holding it to her chest as tight as she could.

“Rose...?!” Juleka questioned.

“Go away, Hawkmoth!” Rose yelled as if she hadn’t heard her. “You big meanie! Leave Marinette alone!”

Bewildered, a few of the group exchanged glances.

Shrugging, Alix and Kim walked over with confident faces and joined Rose in hugging Huangdi’s arm and shouting at the villain.

“You stink, Hawkmoth,” Kim scoffed. “Hurting our friend like this? If you were here I’d punch you right in the face!”

“Not before me you wouldn’t!” Alix retorted, squeezing the scaled appendage as tight as she could.

“What... are they doing...?” Chat breathed as more and more made their way towards the dragon.

“I... I think they’re bullying Hawkmoth,” Chanceux let out a tiny little hysterical laugh. With an incredulous smile, he shrugged and made his way over to their hostage.

“You suck, Hawkmoth!” Nino joined in, pressing himself against their friend’s side. “C’mon, Marinette, you can totally kick him out!”

“Do it for me!” Alya added, trying her best to hug her as she planted herself firmly at her throat. “Come on, Marinette, you can do it. I know you can show this bully who’s boss.”

“Go away, Hawkmoth!” Sabrina yelled in unison with Rose.

Huangdi’s eyes continued to water, and large tears spilled over the sides of her cheeks and splattered to the ground with the rain.

Luka had long since picked himself up and pressed a hand against her scaled jaw. When she looked down at him, he gave her a reassuring smile.

“You can do this, Marinette,” he encouraged. “Where’s the amazing girl that stood up to XY for us?”

“I...” The dragon sniffled a little.

Slowly, her voice began to change from its guttural timbre to something softer.

“Hey, it’s working!” Mylene exclaimed in relief. “Come on, Marinette...!”

Slowly, the dragon began to flicker - and with a bright light and a sharp scream, she disappeared, leaving a shivering, sobbing Marinette in her wake. Her classmates fell to the ground abruptly, letting out exclamations of surprise, and Chanceux was quick to dart away from Lila and towards the dark-purple butterfly trying to flutter away.

“Gotcha!” He exclaimed with pride as it disappeared into the yo-yo. “Your evil comes to an end, akuma!”

Throwing the yo-yo into the air, he followed it with “Miraculous Ladybug!”

Almost immediately a bright light pierced the sky, and a swarm of ladybugs chased it as it shooed away the dreary blanket. Slowly, the bright blue sky came back into view as the rain came to an end. Rainbows danced about as the last of the rain shimmered in the sun’s cheerful rays.

Alya was the first to get to her. “Marinette, are you okay?”

Nodding wordlessly, she collapsed into her best friend’s arms, still crying - and one by one, the rest of them joined the group hug. Luka glanced towards Chat and Chanceux, gesturing towards the pile with expectant eyes.

The ladybug hero sighed, smiling in relief as he joined in. Chat hesitated, but Nino caught his eye and pointed at Marinette. He gave in and hugged around Alya and Luka.

“I’m... I’m so sorry,” Marinette whimpered, trying to wipe away her tears. “I was just... so upset and hurt that I lost it.”

“It’s not your fault,” Marc spoke up firmly, brushing away his own tears and squeezing her arm. “Like Chanceux said, I can always make an even better one.”

“Um, hello?” Lila groused. “Right here...”

“Oh, right,” Chat remembered with a glower, turning to the Italian girl. “As for little miss troublemaker, I want you out of the class effective immediately.”

“Wh- what?” It wasn’t just Lila, but Marinette who answered. The group stared at her even as she spluttered, “Chat, are you sure--?”

“She has caused too much harm in the classroom, Mari,” he stated, his usual banter traded for a serious tone that demanded she listen. “Not just to you - now she’s involved someone from another class, and it’s not just Bustier’s problem to deal with anymore.”

“He’s right,” Juleka added. “Nathanael and Marc are my friends. I can’t just sit and watch her start bullying Marc.”

“Th- that wasn’t-- I was just--” The brunette stammered.

“You tore up something precious to him,” Chanceux suddenly spoke up, voice flickering with anger as he stared her down. “That’s something Chloe would do, sure - but you? After everything we did to try and be nice to you?”

“It’s bullying,” Chat emphasized, folding his arms across his chest. “Marinette, I know you don’t want to make things harder, but I don’t feel comfortable having another bully in the classroom after everything else that’s happened this year.”

There was a heavy few seconds of silence from the group.

Finally, Marinette swallowed. She nodded her head and admitted, “... I’m not going to argue with you. In fact, I agree. I don’t want to have to deal with that anymore. It was enough being the only one having to keep quiet - but I am not going to stand around and watch my friends get the same treatment.”

Alya pulled away with a concerned frown. “So it was true, then? She lied?”

“She lied about the connection with Dargaud,” Marc confirmed. “I assume she’s lied about other things as well, but that one affects Nath and I.”

“I can’t believe this.” The reporter shot her a disappointed stare. “I was so set to publish that interview with you, too. That would’ve gotten me so much hate if people actually contacted them and asked about you, you know? I can’t believe I didn’t even see it earlier; you don’t even like comics.”

“I- I do,” Lila defended. “I read a ton of webcomics all the time!”

“You didn’t even know the name of the studio you were promising a gig with,” Chanceux pointed out with narrowed eyes.

“Do I have to know the names of every single last place I work with, now?” She questioned, exasperated and upset. “I mean come on, not even Gabriel Agreste himself would know like half the models and agencies he collaborates with. Excuse me for having a bad memory.”

Rose shifted from foot to foot. “This one was a lie, but... surely she can’t have lied about everything, right? Who just does that?”

Marinette turned to give Chat a flat look over Alya’s head. He nodded in response.

“Chanceux, why don’t we let her loose,” he said to the hero standing near her.

Pursing his lips, the redheaded boy thought for a moment. Finally, he sighed. “Fine. Might as well; the only thing she did was serve as bait for the akuma.”

Pulling at the end of the bow, the rest of the rope sagged free, and so did Lila. She got up, rubbing her sore arms, and glared at the group.

“Now I’m wet, muddy, and have ropeburn,” she complained with a heavy sigh. “Mama is going to have a fit when she sees how dirty my clothes got...”

As she ran off, the heroes returned their attention to the pile.

“Thanks, guys, I’m feeling a lot better now.” With another sniffle, Marinette smiled weakly at her friends. “I feel so ashamed for giving in...”

“Believe me, I was really close,” Marc commented with a light laugh. “If you hadn’t jumped in front of me and took the butterfly when you did...”

“You continue to be an Everyday Ladybug,” Chat praised with a soft smile. “Don’t beat yourself up over it, Marinette. I’m just glad we were able to snap you out of it.”

Extending his hand, he added, “Why don’t I take you home? I’m sure your parents are worried sick.”

“Better idea, why don’t we have a sleepover tonight?” Alya asked, glancing around at the girls. “That way, we can keep an eye out for any more nasty butterflies.”

“I’m down.” Alix nodded. “I’ll ask my dad.”

“Sounds like fun!” Rose cheered, Juleka nodding in agreement.

“I’ll ask my dad,” Mylene said, folding her hands together.

“It’s settled.” Alya smiled triumphantly, squeezing Marinette’s shoulder. “We’re all here for you, Marinette. Just say the word and we’ll help you beat away Hawkmoth’s akumas with a superpowered stick if we have to!”

“You don’t have to,” laughed the girl as she wiped her last tear away and took Chat’s hand. “But thank you. Really, thank you. I’m glad to have you all as my friends.”

“No,” said the ladybug hero, his eyes growing soft at the pigtailed girl, “thank you for being ours.”

[rachelsshowerthoughts]

Sent a response regarding the Aware AU stuff, I hope it was interesting, also had other Kwami thoughts.

Cos like, I love the substitute angle but I doubt that'd it sustainable long term once more Kwami start coming out.

Kagami is likely on lock for an early Kwami due to Marinette, meanwhile Chloe may need to get one by 'accident'.

I do love Queen Bee, though Benom is so low key over powered it can make fights vexing, but I also love Snake!Chloe & Tiger!Chloe.

The latter also fits given how similar but distinct one can make the Tiger Miraculous, especially if they get creative with it, or so I feel.

Roaar: Well now, you aren't who I was supposed to be with, & I'm not where I was supposed to be >:3c Chloe: I get the sense that isn't a problem for you. Roaar: No way, I'm Roaar, let's cause havoc!

Cue Chloe & Adrien showing up with supremely destructive Kwami and the tagline from that art piece, "Supreme Feline Violence!" as their new catchphrase.

so, first of all, I read that last line as "Sublime Feline Violence!" which . . . sounded odd until I reread it, but anyway!

So, one thing I meant before, about my problems with the Kwami, is I see a lot of problems with them as . . . well, kind of being the Order's fault? Like. The implication I keep getting, is that the Order BOUND the Kwami to their will, basically, which is why they have to do whatever their "owners" say. Like, just. I don’t know how to describe it properly, just.

Ok. Let's try this. The Kwami don’t read as "partners". They read closer to indentured servants. They aren’t allowed to do anything without asking their "owners" for permission. Gabriel can literally take Nooroo's speech capability away. Yes, maybe it’s convenient that the Kwami have NO IDEA about the power ups and stuff, as it means Gabe doesn’t know about it, but the implications . . . the Kwami aren’t allowed to know about magic that affects them, that CHANGES how they work (imagine this as a medical procedure you are REQUIRED TO HAVE, but aren’t allowed to know what someone will be doing to you). And the reason why is that they HAVE to answer their "masters". They CAN'T say no. Seriously, imagine the series with the only change being that the Kwami don't HAVE to answer questions. They can keep their own secrets and thoughts. How much shit gets solved if that happens?

Just . . . I don’t think I can explain properly how UNCOMFORTABLE the Kwami's situation makes me. Like, it feels like the only difference between Gabriel and the Order? Their goals. #FreeTheKwami

(Moving on, I'm not sure how coherent this is . . . )

I think the substitute angle would still be in play, but after the Big Conversation (not sure if you saw my take on that?), I feel like Marinette starts pushing a little more, and in my head, I see a compromise that looks odd from canon-view. Part of Fu's argument would, weirdly, be that the doubles are in danger, because the Miraculous are still primarily Adrien's and Marinette's. Like, Yes Chloé and Adrien spend maybe equal amount of time as Chat Noir, but the split is probably closer to 60-40 in Adrien's favour, with Chloé taking over the 40% he CAN'T get away without risking consequences with his dad. And Marinette, once she gets the go ahead, would split that even less, still primarily being Ladybug, with Kagami only taking over in the case of illness, or if Marinette REALLY can't leave without hurting someone (babysitting or similar comes to mind). So the rest of the time, Chloé and Kagami would be defenceless against Hawk Moth, should he figure them out or target them.

Marinette, of course, agrees. She does often have an easier time seeing things from Fu's point of view, especially because despite his hang ups, it isn’t like he's outright WRONG. The doubles ARE in danger without a way to protect themselves. Her solution? Hand the doubles a Miraculous of their own!

Yeah, this is where it gets loud.

Fu is STRIDENTLY against this. Oh no, no way, no how, absolutely NOT, Marinette, I expected better from you-! But Marinette stands her ground. She argues right back, and I think a combination of Fu seeing her more favourably, and Marinette making some very good points might sway him.

Having more Miraculous out is dangerous? Having the ones ALREADY out is dangerous, how much more danger are we talking here?

Fu doesn’t know who the doubles are? Well, Ladybug and Chat Noir don’t know who each other is, and that’s seen as a layer of security.

The doubles are defenceless? They don’t have to be!

Just this intense back and forth (Chloé and Adrien are watching this like a tennis match) before Marinette plays her trump card. Fu says he trusts her judgement. Well, Marinette trusts the Chats Noir, and her friend, Ladybird (Kagami's Ladybug handle? Not a major fan, i see it more as a combo name for Ladybug/Peacock, but I don’t currently have other ideas). More than that, the fights are clearly getting harder. They NEED back up. SHE needs back up. Back up she can TRUST.

eventually, Fu caves.

As to which Miraculous they get, I too love Queen Bee, but hear me out. Kagami gets the Bee (maybe can extend the trompo-top stinger into a fencing sabre?), and Chloé gets the Turtle. Yep, Fu gives up Wayzz. Why?

So Wayzz can SPY on this unknown Chat. Because while Fu trusts Ladybug, he still is wary of the second Chat Noir, this one he still doesn’t know. He knows who Adrien is, so he KNOWS he's an only child. The closest "sibling" he can see is Felix, who lives in London, no way he can get to Paris that fast. He also doesn’t suspect Chloé, because he's been taken in by her outward persona. But if Duchess Noire has Wayzz, then Fu can maybe figure her out. He knows the limitations of the Miraculous - if Duchess tells Wayzz "don’t tell anyone who I am", he won’t be able to tell Fu who she is. But he'll still have insight into how she works, what her morals are, if they can REALLY trust her. Plus, Fu knows Wayzz, they've been partners for CENTURIES. Fu knows not just how to fight with the Turtle, but how to fight against the Turtle. If this second Cat turns out to be bad news, the Turtle is the Miraculous Fu has the best chance against.

(Also, random sidenote: I discussed this with @princess-of-the-corner, cause she always makes the Tiger's thing Invisibility, and I was saying I'd sort of like it if the Tiger had both that AND Clout, so I think what we ended up with was the Tiger's thing is related to Confidence. High confidence, you get Clout, low confidence, you get Stealth. You CAN figure out how to access both, but it can take awhile. Cause, also, you know, a Tiger's whole THING is that it's camouflaged, invisible in its environment, until suddenly you get slammed with several pounds of muscle, teeth and claws.

Also, if you feel that Venom is too OP, I’d institute a time limit. Like, the five minutes you have until you detransform, that's how long Venom lasts? Something like that.

also-also, I see your Snake!Chloé, and raise you Snake!Nino. )

[tumblingxelian]

Storyteller Akuma: K, this thought wouldn’t leave me be, but I'm not sure how well it’s going to translate from brain to page, so bear with me.

I see part of Ladybug Not Being Affected . . . like, she is being influenced, it just SEEMS like she isn’t, because 1) as we discussed, she's the hero, & 2) 1 of the major influencers right now is CHAT NOIR, who knows Ladybug really damn well, so she's basically herself, right? Well one thing that just hit me-

Right now, Ladybug IS NOT Marinette.

Like, as much as people write about it, Ladybug & Marinette are not separate people. Ladybug is not an entire act Marinette is putting on, but rather an extension of herself. Ladybug makes choices that Marinette absolutely would, because THEY ARE THE SAME PERSON. BUT . . . No one knows who Ladybug is behind the mask. Not even Chat. So things DO go a little different, because Marinette's BIAS isn’t there.

Cause like. I think we all agree that Marinette is very "Black-White/What-Is-This-Grey-You-Speak-Of?" in her worldview. It's basically why, when Chloé DOES make efforts to change, they go either unacknowledged, or misinterpreted, because Marinette has several YEARS of Chloé being a rude, unrepentant, Rich Bitch Bully. & I'm not saying it’s wrong for Marinette to think that way, but it's what makes it all so hard for the girls to see where the other is coming from. It colours their every interaction, even when Chloé is trying her hardest to please Ladybug. But right now? Ladybug isn't - CAN'T - be Marinette. & her biggest influence is Chat Noir, who sees Ladybug as herself, yes, but also her BEST self. So that changes things.

Like, Ladybug is AWARE that she's really Marinette Dupain-Cheng. But if she focuses too hard on that, she starts slipping into whatever the Storytellers see Marinette as, & nope, can’t do that, so we are Ladybug right now! & none of the Storytellers know that Ladybug is Marinette, so they don’t think to apply Marinette actions to Ladybug. & what this really means, is that Ladybug finds it easy to be sympathetic to Chloé in particular. Because without the years of animosity between them, if Marinette had met Chloé as a teen, & seen first hand how her parents treat her? Oh, she'd be FURIOUS. How DARE they treat their daughter like that!? Can't they see how they're hurting her!? How hard she's trying to be what they want!? How miserable she is!?

Or what about Adrien? Without the crush blindness, what does she think of him? How does she see him? Like, yes, at the core Ladybug & Marinette are the same person, but - *inarticulate gestures cause my brain is failing me*

It basically lets her view the whole situation objectively, so when everything is over . . .

Ooh I am excited!

Yeees, yeah I can totally see this, I love exploring the distinction in identities and sense of self that come with the mask. (Ask me about Six-Teen-Heroes sometime XD) But yeah cos like, her magic, role in the Akuma's narrative and all three but especially Chat's dominant experience with her means Ladybug is gonna be pretty close to her professional hero self... While Marinette is sort of... Not quite there right now.

Also yeah Chat not knowing whose behind the mask plays heavily into things to, so true, he only as the Ladybug perception. & Marinette returning to the field will have been 'in character' as well.

You are also right I hadn't considered that but I love it! Cos yeah she's got several years of negative experience with Chloe & a rather simplistic world view where parents are good & loving, authority figures are generally reliable and being nice is natural and easy. Intellectually she may know bad parents exist but Chloe's life on the outside looking in, is not super obvious on that front unless coming at it from an adult or more neutral perspective. So to Marinette there's no real explanation save "Spoiled rotten". But for Ladybug, none of that stuff applies!

Let alone the fact that Chat probably wouldn't mind it if they got along, he always seemed amused by their interactions X3 Also true facts on her best/ideal self.

Yeah there's definitely be some dissonance there, and to avoid losing herself she probably leans harder on Ladybug but is maybe also a lil freaked out somewhere cos she doesn't want to not be herself either. Everyone's getting a messed up mind today!

so they don’t think to apply Marinette actions to Ladybug.

Action, feelings or history, so at most its like, oh the ever professional Ladybug can be a bit eh on the exuberant Chloe & that's at worst.

Also yeah I can see it, hell if they'd only met as heroes she'd possibly be full on fond of her even without seeing her trauma. Or at least able to go "OK that was rude but like, god damn what an over reaction." Let alone yeah Audrey at least would be something she could pick up on. Add in stuff like Maladikator and all the pieces would fall into place given Akuma are not meant to harm their loved one's and both her parents try to harm or use her as Akuma. So it'd be all red flags all the time, especially cos she's a hero in all their eyes.

Gosh yeah that'd be interesting, like does Adrien's perception of himself as Adrien VS Chat play into things as well? So many angles!

But yeah I love this so much.

Low key just imagining post purifications everyone just flops onto the floor unsure what to do with themselves. Probably feeling a bit eased up like in that original ask I sent you:

The rich kids have taken knives to each other. They've cut open their festering wounds. The rot is exposed, scrubbed raw. While they lie angry, bleeding, crying, and dying [inside], they have the opportunity to look upon themselves once more and apply new dressings.

Or maybe a little relieved, or hell jus confused. Marinette-Bug is not much better, but like if Chloe tries to flee, or put up an act, she might just get that hug she's been starving for all her life and just fucking breakdown sobbing.

[halfagone]

That’s a good point, she probably only knows him as an adult, not his age. Hmm, how do you think Danny and Marinette would get along anyhow? I know he’d get along with Adrien like a house on fire, but I feel he and Marinette have some similarities as well.

If you think about it, in a great deal of ways, Danny could probably be compared to Chat Noir just minus all the flirting. And for all that Marinette- as Ladybug- rolls her eyes at his puns and wordplay, we have seen her go along and even banter back with that same humor. Marinette handles Chat just fine even as a civilian, so there's no difference on that front.

At the same time, Marinette is a very anxious person. We see that she has very good people skills and she knows how to corral a group together, much like Danny can, but sometimes she really struggles to get out of her own head. Danny, on the other hand, can be a little too dismissive at times so I can see that being a potential conflict. It's often the same case with Ladybug and Chat Noir.

And it's not always because they don't take something seriously, they just don't take something serious enough for her. Marinette is a prepper, she always tries to keep ahead and plan things out, where Danny tends to go with the flow. Of course this does stem from the threats they face; Marinette knows that the akuma are coming from someone somewhere, whereas Danny often just fights individually ghosts. Occasionally they'll team up, but very rarely is there a joint, united effort between them.

To a degree Marinette always goes with the flow, due to the nature of akuma, but you get the feeling from the way she plans out her speech to Adrien about how she's actually in love with him that it's more due to force of circumstances. Otherwise she does try to keep track and get ahead of Hawkmoth.

On Danny's end I can see him viewing Marinette in a couple different ways. She could always remind him of his sister, which would be understandable since the pair share a lot of the same qualities. They're supportive and energetic and they're always there with a plan or idea. But sometimes that can be overwhelming, and sometimes they make mistakes, like what Marinette did with Marc and Nathaniel. None of them are perfect by any means, but that's part of what makes them realistic.

You don't even have to make Danny the Ghost King to have him empathize with Marinette's situation as Guardian. In a lot of ways he's been forced as the Portal's keeper as well, and if anything happens to it who knows what becomes of him. That's a lot of responsibility that- in a certain perspective- is keeping them chained to other duties neither of them asked for but keep anyways.

Marinette tried to turn down the Ladybug miraculous once, but took it up again.

If we're counting Phantom Planet here, Danny's done the same. Even if we just count Identity Crisis really, Danny has done the same.

But there's a price for everything, and it's not a price they're willing to pay.

Danny's situation definitely mirrors Adrien's more, with a neglectful parent that's hurting them at home with their dismissiveness and also out on the field. The only difference is Danny is aware that's his parents hunting him down; Adrien doesn't get that luxury and pain.

I can definitely see them being friends; I've written them as friends. Their relationship wouldn't be as deep as Danny and Adrien's could be, and nowhere near what Marinette and Adrien have with each other. I don't think they'd be a couple for a lot of the same reasons I don't think Danny and Sam could really work as a couple, if you were wondering about that as well.

They'd have really cute banter if Marinette brought out her more teasing side and I can picture Danny giving her a rough time like a good older (younger? I've written him as older but he can definitely be younger if we wanted him to be) brother.

It could be very sweet is all 😊

[ghostlyhamburger]

Husband Watches Truth and Lies

they changed the opening theme?

They rerecorded the audio too. I don't know if I like it.

Wait Zoe's in the intro sequence? and Hawkmoth is using TWO miraculous?? What's with Ladybug's new outfit??

I don't know if I like it.

I do like that it's creating more visual interest in the outfit but I don't think that's how you should do it.

We're not even a minute in

Hm. So they gave the unify upgrade to the villain too. I like the outfit aaand he's phantom of the opera. He looks like more of a prick now.

Honestly I feel like the normal box is a lot more inconspicuous

so kwamis don't show up on things but we have seen evidence of their audio existing. in the kwami capture episode where Marinette put on all of them. also they can maintain sentience and awareness in the suit forms so they'd already ahve seen a lot of this stuff when she moved across the city wearing all of them.

I did not hear what Juleka said. I don't think there's any actual words in that.

I remember why I stopped watching this.

{Marinette is babbling to Luka about Adrien and husband is taking a lonnnnng drink}

What the fuck is happening here? "Marinette forgot everything and they're just" Being dicks about it?

This feels like there's an amount of time that has passed between the end of season 3 and the beginning of season 4 and none of it was covered. It clearly isn't the next day, I don't remember them dating, but also Alya didn't know so clearly they haven't been together long?

Also why is every episode with Luka so cringey?

It's like everything else with the show is so subtle and intriguing but the relationship stuff is so goddamn heavy handed. It's hard to enjoy it when it's being forced in our face. It's not even me disliking romantic stuff, some of the greatest stuff in shonen revolves around romance.

The donut of my life??

What is with this show and the stupid orange juice??

They're trying to show off their increased budget here

Bitches you are talking during a movie!

None of the things about Luka should really be flagging as he's an asshole, but so many things flag as he's an asshole!

(Luka got Mari to say "kiss me") That was actually really smooth. Props where props are due.

"I gotta keep my identity a secret more than ever!" So you shout it in the bathroom.

So there's been pretty much cartoon violence in the show so far. Season four opens up with THE BOMBING OF PARIS.

This feels more like first actual episode than first episode of a season. A lot of reestablishing who the characters are and what their relationships are.

He didn't impact the glass at the center where it would have fractured. Yes I will be that pedantic.

Plus he's not actually pressing up against it so it doesn't look like he shattered the glass

This is Mr Pigeon isn't it

(They're at Andre's) Fucking hell this episode has all the worst people.

Nino's wearing WWE shoes.

It's almost like the universe is telling Marinette not to date Luka because it keeps pushing her towards Chat Noir

God Luka's so pretentious

(Husband noticed a poster for Le Coquelicot in the background and asked me to look up what that meant and so I found out it means poppy, and the meaning of a poppy is remembrance and hope for the future) So the universe is reflecting her hope for the future here but also showing that she really can't have that with Luka?

what? THAT'S what akumatizes Luka? "I can't tell you the truth" THAT'S what breaks him?

(husband downed the rest of his drink)

What is this show? Why must it be so stupid? Why must it hurt me? No bitch is that dramatic!

So this is their way of stepping up the villain. Giving him TWO powers.

That seems like such a STUPID idea. putting the amok and the akuma into the same object? if you break one, you break both!

also dude you're literally wearing the thing that says that she cares about you, you are so fucking stupid oh my fucking god

This goes against the aloof nature they gave Luka in other episodes. so going back to the heavy handed bullshit

So he can force akumatization. (Actually I think on some level Luka gave in because he did want to know Marinette's secret) That makes more sense, plays into his duplicitous nature

Finally something more important to Luka than getting into Marinette's pants!

(Ladybug gags herself) The Totally Spies influence keeps rearing its head

So there's one thing I don't understand. In earlier episodes we've seen that Hawkmoth can force akumas to do things. Why isn't he doing that now?

Look at Tom being a good father!

Why do I recognize [Ziggy's] voice

Wow really showcasing the quick thinking abilities of Chat

Why did they make Chat more tan

Yeah putting the whole amok and akuma into the same object seems like a stupid idea. also is there a point to de-evilizing the amok when it has no sentience?

oh she doesn't say bye bye little butterfly anymore

That was a pretty good episode if you don't count the first 15 minutes

All right that's actually a really good moment for Jagged

All right so that to me says they're gonna stop with the romantic bullshit till the end of the series but I KNOW that's not the case.

and that's this episode!

Props to Jagged for actually confronting his own inadequacies and trying to do better for what he should be. Also I guess I kind of understand Luka a bit. It's not easy growing up without a father figure. It was hard enough not seeing my own often, it must be worse having NO father figure. It's probably why a lot of anime that are male centric with a lot of older male characters really hit home with me, because they could teach me paternal morals. Luka clearly didn't have that. Even though anime is more popular in France than it ever was in America.

(So what you're saying is Adrien is more well adjusted than Luka because he's a weeb.) Yes actually!

This really ties into my thoughts of Adrien and Luka being mirrors of each other, Kagami and Marinette being mirrors of each other, Adrien and Marinette being reflections, even Kagami and Luka being reflections.

Adrien and Kagami are obviously reflections with the isolation and fascination with anime and fencing but Adrien had a friend in Chloe and Kagami had no one.

I could keep going

(He is still going)

(so at the time I was pissed at Luka, because I thought it was shitty when a girl breaks up with a guy for his response to be "that's okay I'll wait"). I see it differently. So I disagree. I don't think that was their intent. I think they were trying to show Luka's emotional intent. Luka came out of the akumatization and realized he was being unfair to Marinette. He realized that with the gift and everything that she was trying to be there for him and that she just still couldn't tell him. So when she broke up with him, he understood that she was overwhelmed, and even though she didn't say she couldn't be with him right now, he understood what she meant. It just went over badly because the episode was so heavy handed at the beginning.

I don't like what they did to Juleka in basically making her mumble mouth, in previous seasons she was just shy and didn't talk much. also they changed her personality.

(TIME FOR LIES)

The weirdest thing about the series so far is they have random bits of speeding up people's dialogue to make it fit and it doesn't work.

Why didn't they start the first episode like this? We followed Marinette through the previous episode. We should've kept with that and followed Adrien through the first episode.

why is the camembert not stored in the fridge

Did Plagg just talk to him through the phone?

that's a stein of milk

those sneaky bitches

when did they give Kagami freckles?

I wish Kagami wasn't the only one who had a unique suit.

Considering Kagami hates lies, does she not use feints in fencing then? that would turn her episode point into an actual character quirk.

There could also be more characters in the fencing class that we knew besides Adrien and Kagami. it's cool that adrien wears the same thing as everyone else but it's forcing Kagami to stand out that she's wearing something different. Actually considering how controlling her mother is that may not be her choice.

The timing on this is just too weird. It made sense from the Ladybug perspective but the amount of time between things. They had a walk away from the boat and had a whole ass talk and a whole ass Hawkmoth thing and Ladybug having her transformation sequence in the time it took them to walk down the stairs

wow he really just nuked the entire Kagami/Adrien thing in this one episode

"I only ever have this much fun with you" YOU HAVE A GIRLFRIEND

It was bright as frickin day when they defeated Truth

See this actually makes a lot more sense because they are meant to be younger and less emotionally stable. I think it actually works really well.

Considering the fact that Hawkmoth is lying that would include him. and why didn't he give her a sentimonster?

Fang want cake

Are they actually gonna use Chloe to an effect? The most honest, brutally honest bitch?

FANG WANT CAKE

Fang the best

is her orb getting bigger?

Actually that was just a really good episode. the only things that don't work are the parts that conflict with the previous.

Yeah this episode hurts

Why did they give Ladybug such an ass

[paracosmicat]

Fan Fic Review

Every time I read a fan fiction I always have a lot of thoughts and no one to dump them onto so might as well dump them here aaand I might as well treat it like a book review while I am at it!

Starting off strong we have Found by TrishaCollins

This may be suuuper long it will absolutely be a random dump of my thoughts as I read so I don’t have to keep bothering my girlfriend (who would probably want me to make it clear she doesn’t mind at all)

If you want to submit a fan fiction for me to read please please feel free please your own or otherwise

Commentary after the cut

STARTING OFF VERY STRONG WITH SOME VERY ACCURATE FELIX CHARACTERIZATION

Okay,,, I COULD CRY!!! It makes me think of how long Felix felt unsafe.. poor baby..

God I love the idea of Felix thinking Chat Noir is just oddly upset about his story lmfao he’s like devastated and Felix and Ladybug are both like …

(Sidenote, I’m not entirely sure if Felix is aware that he is Adrien or not)

Wow, that is actually super interesting!! I think the idea of the senticousins as innocent kids being exposed to these things that are way above their head and thinking nothing of it because they were !!!! Just kids !!!!! Is WILD.

Adrien would absolutely take take of Nooroo better than anyone too butterfly Adrien WHEN

I LOVE HOW CASUAL MENTIONS OF THE DOG INCIDENT ARE LIKE CONTROVERSIAL DNDND THATS SO FUNNY but also YES TO CAT EARS THAT MOVE

MORE FELIX AND MARINETTE FRIENDSHIP CRUMBS ILL TAKE THEM ALLLLL I also love how Felix is just…so annoying on purpose…that is absolutely the side of him that put cheese under a pillow coming out

🎉🎉🎉

CHEERS TO ADRIEN HAVING HIS RING

OKAY YES ITS HAPPENING THIS IS SO SWEET I THINK FELIZ DESERVES SWEETNESS ESPECIALLY FROM SOMEONE HE HURT HE DESERVES THIS SO MUCH

YEAH??? I GUESS SO??? THIS IS SO FGNDJDNDN

I GUESS BUTTERFLY ADRIEN NOW!!! WOW!!!! DID NOT EXPECT THAT

AAAAND this is apparently how I find out that there is a 10 photo per post limit! I would like to do more commentary, but I’ll wait to see if anyone enjoyed this.

Overall, I really enjoy how cute the little team of Kagami, Félix, Adrien, and Marinette is and I love how accurately each of them is characterized. So far it is super interesting and I would love to see a lot of these concepts in the show. (They might be, who knows! Not me!)

[miraculouslbcnreactions]

Your (and other people's) posts about Adrien's realistic behaviour towards the abuse he faces from his father (excluding the Senti nonsense) and how Marinette greatly benefits from Adrien beeing pre-abused (not getting inconvenienced at all by Adrien and Chat Noir bending backwards to please Ladybug + Maribug doesn't see it necessary to change that state) really opened my eyes on several things and are damn interesting to read. Thanks a lot! Those analyses make these relationships really fascinating to dissect and I'm kind of astounded that they are even there in such a realistic manner in the show.

The bitter truth, however, kicks in when I think about that those complex dynamics are not deliberately written but are just a mere byproduct of the story the writers actually wanted to incompetently tell, that is something along the lines of "Gabriel is a little flawed, but ultimately a loving father" and "Our good-hearted heroine Marinette deserves a perfect boyfriend and all the admiration for being the best Ladybug and Adrien is happy to dedicate his existence to her because she "truly" loves him".

Like...even if the writers wanted to write an abuse story with Adrien (which they clearly didn't want to) I seriously doubt they could have pulled that off as intricate as it coincidentally turned out. And that fact alone drives me a little bit crazy (°ロ°) How could they accidentally write their "loving" heroine and "loving" father character like that? How can Adrien show realistic behaviour an abuse victim could have but to the writers he's just perfect like that? It absolutely baffles me and makes me wonder if the writers themselves have a little skewed view on abuse where they never realized abusive behaviour in their real life and think that's just normal (even though I generally like to avoid making assumptions about creators on basis of their works).

Anyway, thanks for your time and writing interesting, thoughtful posts, it's always a joy to read!

Yeah, it's not a good look for anyone. It's also absolutely one of those cases of the characters being unable to be better than the writers. Because the writers don't seem to be aware that Adrien is a victim, no one can react properly to it and it leads to a lot of concerning writing.

The one that always makes me cringe, but that I don't think I've mentioned before is how they love to have Adrien's friends confront Gabriel when Adrien is denied something and NO! By the gods, that is the WORST thing that you could do to help an abuse victim! DO NOT confront the abuser while the victim is still at their mercy because all that you're going to do is make the abuser mad and get the victim hurt.

If you know - or even just think - that someone in an abusive situation, then I implore you to read guides on this topic as it's an incredibly tricky road to navigate. Doing the wrong thing can have all kinds of nasty consequences like driving the victim into the abuser's arms or getting them hurt. Pretty much everything about the way Adrien's friends handle it is wrong to the point where I have one fic where Adrien confesses that he keeps things from them for fear of them confronting his father and making his situation worse.

On a slightly more positive note, I'm pretty sure that I've mentioned this topic before, but one of the things that feeds my brain rot is how perfectly Miraculous setup a healthy give and take dynamic between the romantic leads. It's hard to do that, but they pulled it off and then completely failed to use it! You have Marinette needing support on the hero side because that's where all of her pressure comes from while Adrien needs support on the civilian side because that's where all of his pressure comes from. It's a great way to allow both of the romantic leads to play the support giver role while also allowing them to play the support taker role, but somehow, we never get that. Adrien doesn't get much support on either side even when he needs it most.

It will forever bother me that the seasons whose focus was his father dying was somehow also the season where multiple episodes were dedicated to him helping Marinette with her romance trauma and trying to be "worthy" of her love. They have made this adorable little romance so unhealthy and it hurts me.

Btw, all of the above is why Ladrien is my favorite side pre-reveal. I love, love, love letting Ladybug be more open about her struggles because you know that she'll never "burden" Chat Noir, but she'll happily talk to Adrien about things like that since they don't effect him (she already does this with Alya, it's absolutely in character). On the other side, Adrien is usually so private, but he would absolutely be an open book with his Lady if she asked him to be, but that won't happen while he's Chat Noir, thus Ladrien having my heart when it comes to writing a more balanced and open pre-reveal relationship. Only side that let's me do it properly.

[gale-gentlepenguin]

Gale Reviews: ML Season 5 episode 13 Migration

Spoilers Below

-Starting out on the boat

-Marinette wants to talk to Luka. I can already hear the screeching from here

-Luka's got jokes

-Luka got a degree in psychology during the last few weeks cause he playing therapist

-Points to Marinette for being self aware.

-And there is the guitar strumming.

-Luka being like "Nah bitch, you gave me material to work with.”

- you know I wonder why I’m so hard on Luka sometimes…

-Oh right! I remember he knows their identities and blatantly lied about it.

-at the very least, at least Luka sees what we the audience see.

-Adrien and Marinette are adorable

-Adrien’s therapy session. (Seriously someone get this boy legit therapy. He has gone through so much.)

-someone PLEASE tell them to remove their shoes on the bed. It’s gross.

-Adrien’s main worry isn’t finding out the truth but worried it would make Marinette uncomfortable or hurt to do so. Damn that’s actually a fascinating contrast between their relationship with Marinette. Luka wanted the truth not caring what it was, while Adrien wants the truth but not the expense of Marinette. Fascinating

-Luka really said “Fuck the true selves narrative”

-JAGGED TOO! Seriously? Is he everyone’s therapist?! No wonder there are akuma everywhere! This Paris is actually a dystopia

-So Jagged is actually trying to be a better dad here, but knows he can’t stay cause him and anarke aren’t getting back together. Points for trying.

-Jagged and penny is sailing!

-Penny sounding like the only one with actual s*** to deal with but…

- PENNY TOO! Damn he should start charging. He’d make a boat load of cash (Hehehe)

-penny out here telling us she is in love with Jagged even though he is a disaster. Pfff problematic faves

-Can’t believe Luka figured out the 3 questions needed to be a successful therapist.

-not gonna lie. I was hoping Bob was next.

-Anarke YEETED HIM. I think she gave him a life preserver. That’s funny

-Luka really being ladynoir shipping trash

-Kitty section is mid. But Bob gonna be plottin

-Anarke being the only adult here. She is right.

-IT WAS A RUBBER DUCKY! That’s funny!

-okay, Luka being like “Mom…” and anarke saying she will stop throwing people overboard. HOW OFTEN DOES SHE DO THAT?!

-Bob roth pulling the “I was lying but now I’m honest” routine

-Luka…. You of all people shouldn’t trust him after silencer.

-They seriously signed it…

-These expressions will haunt my nightmares

-They really should have read the contracts. Like seriously. Anarke, YOU OF ALL PEOPLE could have read it.

-Bob roth came prepared to be yeeted that time. I gotta respect the play.

-Damn, that contract is Disney evil.

-Now there’s Luka looking visibly distraught. Now this is what I wanted from silencer

-Monarch out here loving the pain and suffering

-Silencer 2.0 let’s go!

-So Monarch Can’t read minds, but he can read emotions, picking up that Luka was trying to hide the fact he knew who ladybug and chat noir are! Oh damn!

-He smashed the guitar! Well karma’s a bitch Luka. You lost a guitar over it (but probably not cause miracle cure)

-How did Bob create duplicates so quickly?!

-Monarch really said he be settling today.

-I like the 70’s skeevy record producer look with gold. It works for Bobs villain form

-Rip guitar. I guess that’s 1 consequence of his actions.

-OH DAMN! Julrose confirmed!?

-oh… she loves her friends. Okay that’s just lesBaiting.

-HE YEETED HER INTO SPACE!

-Luka getting everyone to hide but having Marinette hide somewhere else. Marinette seemed sus of it but didn’t complain.

-Luka was Hinting hard there.

-Juleka!

-Screw you bob, Juleka’s music was low key heat.

-THE Rubber DUCKY! Also Bob is right. That Ducky mix tape slapped

-He put it with his golden records. Amazing

-Mood chat noir

-Pigeon record was not a hit

-Luka revealed that He knows ladybug’s Marinette to ladybug.

-Marinette didn’t get it right away.

-THERE IT IS

-and she blames herself.

-Oh look at that he doesn’t get in trouble for when he blatantly lied to her about seeing the identities last season. WHAT A FUCKING SHOCK! (Sarcasm)

-so he got caught to distract him. So in other words they gambled that he wouldn’t blab in his heart’s song immediately.

-Bob Really thought ladybug and chat noir would protect him?! That’s amusing

- And here we have Luka being ‘Noble’ by saying he has to leave. (At least Adrien found out he knew)

- Jagged quitting the Rockstar life to be with his son. Juleka is in charge of kitty section.

-Price of blatantly lying about knowing ladybug’s identities. ( One Guitar, and a world trip)

____________________________________________

4/10

If I ignored my bias probably 6/10.

I’m still mad Luka basically got off scot free. I was waiting for at least SOMEONE to yell at him. But no. We got nobody mad at him. He gets a hero sacrifice. And while this was Luka’s best season, he still has s*** to own up to. Aside from that the episode was entertaining but also kind of mid. Also I’m salty about the Julrose fake out.

That being said.

Bye blue boy.

[depressed-teacup-inc]

Oh god another Lila episode

Hi yes, before you say it I’m aware protection released yesterday, I was taking a mental health day for myself so I’m late but we’re doing this now ok? Let’s go!

So as the title says, this is another Lila episode! Which usually means that people are dumbed down to believe stupid things Lila says and everyone is against marinette being obsessive and that’s depicted as bad! While there is no dumbing down this episode, LILA MAKES SOME ACTUALLY GOOD POINTS THIS EPISODE THAT ARE SWEPT ASIDE BECAUSE “OHhH shES tHe VillaiN”

So Kagami confides with Lila in how marinette and Adrien being in a relationship, despite her being happy for them, hurts her a lot and that she’s just trying to help her friends be happy right?

So Lila starts saying how selfless and kind Kagami is for tolerating this shit and helping marinette get Adrien (which she’s right to say) and says how frankly, the fact marinette always has people help her with her love life issues is kinda weird, because she never seems to help others or acknowledge other people’s emotions or effort, AND SHES FUCKING RIGHT!!!

Like this is a serious problem in the show!!! Every single character except for marinette doesn’t have anything going for them anymore except helping marinette and Adrien get together! When is the last time we saw kitty section just play for the sake of playing, or marinette discussing Marc and Nath’s work, or hell! When is the last time we saw Adrien, Marinette’s love interest have anything going this season except for loving marinette?!

This show has a whole cast of different characters that they can easily grow and make new and interesting plots with, with episodes that rather then revolve around marinette confessing, can revolving around LITERALLY ANYTHING ELSE!!! And instead, everyone in this show has been just dumbed down to a couple signature traits, and constantly praising marinette and helping her with her stupid confession!

And when they’re no longer of use to Marinette? THEY WRITE THEM OUT OF THE SHOW (THEYRE LITERALLY WRITING LUKA OUT OF THE SHOW, WHO LET NINO PLAY THE FUCKING GUITAR?!)

And sure, Lila lies and definitely exaggerates and calls marinette “toxic” and shit which is very much “I have my own motive I want her to suffer” and I will acknowledge that! Lila isn’t a saint, and she never was!

But she’s not fully wrong. Marinette again, runs away from her friends trying to help her and when the plan doesn’t work cry about how “she doesn’t have the magic” or what not, instead of getting her shit together and try to consider and evaluate her feelings (again she immediately went back to Adrien after the thing with Chat Noir) and be considerate of her friends who are really trying to help her!

But again, whenever there’s a problem in the writing of the show (the plot being purely “marinette deserves everything and we should always help her get what she wants”) the show will make the villains say it, with a couple of mean words thrown in to argue that anyone who thinks this way is manipulative or wrong

Like hell, the way they “counteracted” Lila’s points? About the fact that people are constantly in service of marinette and don’t ever get the same kindness or support from marinette? Was just saying “well Marinette is the best and Lila is just lying so ha”

WHAT SORT OF ARGUMENT IS THAT?!

“Hey why is everyone constantly in service of marinette? Don’t you think the confess to Adrien plot is overdone? Don’t you think characters deserve more depth then being Marinette’s lackeys and perhaps even have marinette help them with their life?”

“Well it’s because marinette is the best and we love her so she’s fine”

Anyways that was a stupid episode, Lila is not necessarily wrong, and Gabriel not letting Adrien be with marinette is still weird? Like the show is trying to say that Gabriel’s only reason to not approving is blackmail from Kagami’s mom? Bitch if they try to redeem him

[miraculousalt]

The way Marinette fans or jus general ml fans really will use feminist movements like #metoo or the uprising of female abuse victims speaking up against misogynistic prejudice they face an suffer under to explain why Marinette has every right to reject Chat Noir the way she does is all really great an progressive unril the very same people will 80% of the time then turn round an honest to God explain or even DEMAND that Marinette doesn NEED to stop hitting Adrien, tying him up or otherwise physically restrain or use him and doesn't NEED to ask for consent in anything including KISSING or other sexual activities (you people aren't even attempting to hold Marinette to somewhat of the same healthy standards you make sure Adrien never EVER gets to break, under no circumstances) - even when they are DEPICTED IN A LOVING Relationship - because "its nothing serious.", "she isn't actually hurting him", "he deserved it he annoyed her!" and "that's slapstick comedy, it's FUNNY" is outright one of the most disgusting double standards this fandom glorifies into all heavens.

The way people will show ZERO self-awareness of what they're doin and excusing here an that this is EXACTLY how our real society treats (domestic) violence against men by women would be almost hilarious hypocrisy to point out if it wasn actually as downright depressing as it truly is.

Don't bring feminist movements into the conversation regarding Chats behavior towards Ladybug when you straight up support the characterisation of Marinette Ladybug bein seemingly incapable of NOT physically violating her boyfriend/husband/partner who has suffered under excessive abuse for all his life the moment she sees him transformed (or evn worse as CIVILIANS). Because therefore his "protective suit" can be used to all max as justification as for why Marinette apparently isn being abusive or treatin him badly, including taking advantage of him and his non existent boundaries thanks to his abusive home and the established Ladynoir dynamic that sometimes hardly let's Chat be more than Ladybugs tool to use so she can look cool and strong.

Don't bring up feminist movements when yall think the appropriate way for Adrien to react when he made Marinette angry is submitting and cowering in fear bc you somehow have convinced yourself that boys and men (even the ones, or ESPECIALLY the ones, you are in a romantic relationship with) getting scared of you when you're in a bad mood is you being EMPOWERED instead of you actively refusing to stop being outright abusive.

Canon Marinette is a flawed person but in the end of the day that still remains in at least some sort of limitations to not cross every line, but FANON Marinette Ladybug? That's so fucking often a glorified domestic abuser yall romanticize in a relationship with an abuse victim. But sure. That's alright for you, cuz yall don't truly believe that women can be abusers of people they love once you LIKE them as "strong, empowered women". And men can't truly be abused by women bc they just "respectfully drink respect women juice" in each an every conflict they have cuz men NOT havin to follow a women's every dominatin lead or dare to even expect of HER to do better and stand accountable for her hurtful behavior n be TRUTHFUL is toxic for you people.

I feel so fucking sorry for every male domestic abuse victim of their female abuser, who had to endure their pain an suffering getting invalidated, spit on and even JUSTIFIED as a womans natural unproblematic right by this fandom bc yall are really out here not thinking twice about the horrible implications of making Marinette Ladybug "lovingly" physically assault Adrien Chat for girlboss points or shits n giggles at every turn. No matter how fucking unnecessarily violently executed or even entirely unwarranted in the first place. You just don't fucking care.

The way this fandom has Marinette physically and emotionally violate Adrien Chat however extreme and even unwarranted as she pleases and then you people have the nerve to romanticize that abusive shit by having Adrien be INTO THAT and LIKE IT in a loving relationship while he never once gets to defend himself - bc now that would glorify domestic abuse right? - is the most backwards and hypocritical "feminist" characterisation teh show has to offer but yall truly make it into glorified abuse bc "woman strooooong and in control, its PROGRESSIVE! 💅🏼He respects and admires her strength an authority, he doesn mind getting put in his place à bit rougher by her bc he supports her as the powerful woman leader she is 😌."

Even the Marinette fans who claim to feel for Adrien in his abuse (or even ADRIEN FANS) turn around and laugh at or completely write it off when Marinette gets characterized in Canon and ESPECIALLY in fanon to basically just violate, assault, humiliate, insult and dehumanizes her male love interest for her "empowerment". Because yall claim to be so feminist and progressive but it's so fucking obvious that you only care about how WOMEN can benefit the best from everything. You want revenge porn that's all.

Adrien, his abuse and male abuse victims of any kind are a mere afterthought for you (sometimes not even that) in the feminism you believe in and s4 made that so fucking clear. 95% of this "progressive" Fandom wouldn't hold a female abuser accountable for her actions, even if it were to save the male victims life, the moment the woman isn't a 1 dimensional, obvious monster. If a woman has ONE sympathetic emotion in her portrayal yall will excuse and justify her getting the male victim served to her obedient an perfect an pretty on a silver plate.

95% of the miraculous Fandom has lost their fucking right to claim they care about abuse victims, because no you fucking don't. Not when it's a man and the scenario is coincidentally layed out perfectly to have the woman benefit on every level from the man getting abused, neglected and taken advantage of to 17 hells. Then youll look for n max out every excuse an justification on every meta level available to belittle the disgusting treatment the men went through.

YOU don't give a FUCK about abuse victims and their life's and pain the moment they are male, and s4 has an still IS now in s5 having you publicly blog that into the open internet because THAT'S how little you truly think of male abuse victims. Miraculous is a girl power show, so you will not think twice about dehumanizing and victim blaming boys for woke and even TOXIC feminist points, cuz the last thing you would ever do is hold women girls to healthy standards too in their dynamics an relationships with men boys under a feminist narrative.

"Feminism" for you is an excuse and Marinette fans in s4 proofed that in every way possible.

[geekgirles]

You know something that I'd like to have addressed in season 5?

The true imbalance between the love square.

Most of season 4 was dedicated to the power imbalance between Ladybug and Chat Noir, and while it's true it was about time these kids learned about communication, it's also true that said imbalance has been justified in and out of universe for 3/4 of the series. Firstly because Ladybug is the only one who can purify the akumas, and then with her being all but promoted to guardian of the miraculouses. So yeah, flawed but justified.

You know what has NEVER been addressed in the show?

The emotional imbalance between the two.

For a show that dedicates so much time to the ship tease between its two main characters, it often fails to address very important factors. Mostly because the writers want to expand the shock factor as much as possible.

And this is something that's affected the way they treat the Ladynoir side Vs the Adrienette side.

While Chat got to confess the extent of his feelings for Ladybug fairly early in the show, Marinette has yet to do the same with Adrien. There's supposed to be progress between the two, but the show never lets her take that final step. And it's not like they can say it could endanger Paris, because while clearly saddened for having to hurt a dear friend, Adrien would turn her down for his Lady.

But since that hasn't happened, Adrien gets to have Ladybug reach out to him and try to comfort and listen to him when his "unrequited" love makes their relationship go through a rough patch, or being extra affectionate with him, all to make him feel better.

Now, I'm not saying Chat forces Ladybug to do any of this, because she showed in Félix that she's perfectly aware of what boundaries are and would not hesitate to tell Chat off if he got really pushy about it. For future reference, see Prime Queen and Glaciator 2. Meaning Ladybug is comfortable doing this.

But considering the most Marinette gets from Adrien are unconscious displays of affection that don't go beyond hand-holding or hugging and that the only cheek kiss this side of the love square has had was initiated by Marinette, or how the only time Adrien has actually comforted her about her own unrequited feelings was as Chat and he still doesn't know the person she's hurting over is him, something's just not right.

Unlike Marinette, Adrien's never made to feel guilty over hurting her like she's forced to do. The closest thing would be Puppeteer 2 when he felt horrible for his prank, but that's it. Because, once again, Marinette wasn't allowed to tell him that, yes, it was cruel because she does have feelings for him.

And that makes me think, seeing as the writers have chosen to use him as the one (1) capable character in the show, couldn't they have Félix opening his eyes?

Think about it, Félix knows Marinette has feelings for Adrien, and judging from his actions and reaction to her confession, it wouldn't be far-fetched to think he'd try to play with her for his own amusement.

Imagine, he's trying to use the twin-cousin thing to mess with her by flirting with the intention of coldly rejecting or mocking her as soon as she gets her hopes up. Only he never gets the chance because Marinette soon goes from shocked but elated, to dejected. Because she knows Adrien would never see her as more than just a friend —this could be linked to an early scene where Adrien calls her just that again, or from an earlier episode with similar results.

And then Adrien comes in, sees Félix around a sad-looking Marinette and loses it. Because if there's something about Adrienette the writers have managed to make heartwarming, that is that messing with Maribug is a surefire way to piss Adrien off. But when he goes to tell Félix off, he (half) righteously points out it wasn't him this time who's hurt Marinette—it was Adrien and his usual obliviousnes.

And that way Adrien would be finally forced to think about his interactions with Marinette and how he's been unintentionally hurting her.

I didn't really mean this as salt, but I'll tag it as such just in case.

[miraculouscontent]

Anonymous asked:

Saw some more people talking about Marinette being a Mary Sue because she works well with other miraculouses and rarely does terribly at being Ladybug. And like, just because she's actually a GOOD and COMPETENT hero -unlike Adrien- doesn't mean she's a Mary Sue. That just means that she's had to take up so much responsibility because she's the only one actually bothering to put up any effort in being a hero, that it just got to the point where everyone else looks terrible. Has nothing to do with her being a Mary Sue- she's not really good, Shat Noir is just really bad.

That’s always the funny thing. I feel like they get salty because she “makes Chat look bad,” but instead of acknowledging that Chat’s just an awful hero, it’s just more “blame/insult Ladybug for it.”

Anonymous asked:

I used to follow this person but not anymore. They reblogged and agreed with the post that “Marinette/Ladybug needs to be aware/careful how she treats Adrien cause she hurts him even more AND Marinette is only 14 doing the best she can. These statements can both be true at the same time.” And I was like?? No. That’s not how that works.  

fghdkfjgfg that’s not how it works at all! If she’s doing the best she can then how???

Anonymous asked:

What a lot of fans refuse to understand s that the difference between mari’s secrets and Adrien’s is that…mari’s secrets are either her privacy or classified information chat is not entitled to, while chat’s secrets are terrible things he did behind her back that has to do with her and affect her.

There’s a difference between “I caused Theo’s akumatization but I won’t let you know AND blame you for it” and “I’m the guardian and it’s within the job requirements that i know things that other average heroes don’t know”

^^^^^

This. The only “wrong” thing I see about her keeping things from him is that the show has it backfire on her and refuses to give Chat all the information (”Rocketear”) so he can just think whatever he pleases and thus punish Marinette for stuff she couldn’t help.