#DONT SAY KORRASAMI

[fossilizedhysterics]

guess who finished tlok tonight and immediately had this come to him in a vision!!!!

[alchemiclee]

I hate that whenever there's a gay ship, people immediately het-ify it. people are so obsessed with making one the "man" and one the "woman" when that's completely unnecessary, because they are both the man or the woman. It's extremely annoying. these people will completely mischaracterize a character to fit into their stupid little het roles they force on them.

for example, you don't need to make one man the "wife" and feminized him to the extreme and fit him in a traditional "woman" role so the other man can be the big strong masculine manly man. they can both be masculine or both be feminine or both be both at the same time! they do NOT need to be gendered opposites to fit het roles. crazy, I know! it's like no one considers it a possibility! or sees how good it can be to have them be equals without gendered nonsense.

when there's a gay relationship, you have the perfect opportunity for the couple to stand on equal ground. they get to be equals who are just as strong and just as soft as each other. there's no faulty power dynamics where one is above the other (because let's face it, society unfortunately deems masculinity > femininity). one doesn't need to protect the other. they can protect themsleves, fight aide by side as equals. one doesn't do all the housework. they share that duty equally. one isn't weak and pretty, while they other strong and manly. they both are strong and pretty, or masculine and weak at the same time.

equal relationships are amazing and need to be explored more and appreciated. there can be more understanding and working together. i'm bad at explaining what I mean, but I prefer these equal relationships over forcing them into opposite roles to mirror het relationships, which are usually extremely unbalanced and unequal. especially because these not het relationships! so why must they look like one? they can and should look different! so why does literally every shipper and writer out there make them so het coded?

I don't understand why people do this. do they actually believe all romantic relationships must mimic het ones to exist and thrive and purposely force that on them? or have they genuinely just not fathamed that they can be different and dont need to follow the expected het standards?

I wonder, it feels like no one actually knows how non-het relationships are meant to be and how they could work, since het ones are always forced down our throats since birth. it becomes The Standard that everyone thinks they must follow. maybe it's all people know since they don't see any other possibilities. their preferred dynamics for their ships are what we are taught and nothing different, because they don't know it can be different. i also think people might be obsessed with that whole "opposites attract" trope. but that opposite doesn't have to be the traditional het-fueld feminine vs masculine or wife vs husband characteristics. it can be other personality things like one is loud and one is quiet, one is dumb and one is overly smart, one is rich and one poor, etc. it doesn't have to be masculine vs feminine!

BREAK OUT OF THE HET NORMS!!!!! TEAR DOWN HETERONORMATIVITY!!!!!!!!! FREE THE GAYS

(disclaimer, not saying masculine vs feminine ships are all bad/shouldn't be done ever. but it doesn't need to be 100% of the time either 😅 can't think of one ship people dont do this with lol)

[barblaz-arts]

I think for everything LOK put me and the other sapphics of the world through just to have Korrasami hold hands in the finale the universe owes us a well thought out intentional journey to wenclair

hey cmon now, dont speak about korrasami like that. It was 2014! Before gay marriage was even legal in the US! It was before Ruby and Sapphire's debut as characters in Steven Universe, and before canon confirmation of Bubbline in Adventure Time. It may have only been hand holding, but it was a very ballsy move to pull off in a kid's show airing in a major network. The writing for the show in general was a lil wonky in the first place because of outside forces. the show runners did what they could get away with. Of course we wouldn't be able to get Korra and Asami making out at the end. I'm still thankful for what we got. It was a revolutionary event for LGBT rep in western animation.

(also they have multiple comics about the stuff after the show! the animated series isn't where their story ended)

I get what you're trying to say. I'd love it if Wenclair were written on purpose too. But we don't have to go undermining the canon sapphics that came before to ask for what we want. Representation in media isn't a contest where we look for which did it better and which gave us more. Each one is a stepping stone that gives more opportunity for those who will follow because it is still an uphill battle.

[helphelph]

Rating pjo ships because I've seen a good amount of people doing it lately and it seems fun. But there's a twist!! I used the wackiest rating system imaginable because I'm insane. Have fun.

Percabeth: a hundred hearts out of five blue cookies.

Their dynamic is not only incredibly fun but also they complement each other very well. Honestly, when I first read the books, I didn't really want them to get together because I didn't want another "main guy gets main girl" situation, but they're honestly made for each other.

Jiper: five daggers out of ten great canyons

They were incredibly forced, but honestly not that bad of a ship. They were really cute but I dont have much to say about it.

Valgrace: fifty festus heads out of ten college aus

One of my favorite Jason ships ever. I love me some tragic gays.

Pipabeth: Two goddesses out of fifteen owls

I will ALWAYS support a good wlw ship. And Piper defo had a microcrush on Annabeth while they were on the Argo II. Plus the fanart of them is SO good.

Jercy/Person: twelve riptides out of ten horses

I like reading about it and it's quite fun to think about. Nothing much to say honestly.

Perachel: Ten prophecies out of nine pancakes drowned in syrup

They could have been cute. I dont really ship them though.

Annrachel(is that the name?): three prophecies out of five spiders

Korrasami vibes lmao. I think they're better off as friends but I will read a fanfic if I find an interesting one.

Solangelo: twenty-six skulls out of ten doctors notes

They were written for each other. As in Rick made sure that they were written for each other. I havent read tsats yet and im still on the first toa book so I don't have much on their dynamic. Still I like them and they visually look good together.

Valdangelo: ninety-four automatons out of six pomegranate seeds

They would have been unstoppable I tell you! Unstoppable!! Or maybe I'm biased. Either way they would have been an amazing couple together but Rick was too much of a coward to let them be (boy)friends. (Can you tell I'm biased?)

Jeyna: One bad father out of two older sisters.

UPDATE!!1!1!1 It has come to my attention that Reyna is canonically aroace with no romantic or sexual interest whatsoever so this ship is out of the window.

Jasico: 3/10

Personally I've never seen the hype for them. I like their dynamic a lot but not really in a shipping way. Sorry pjotumblr😔

Pernico: One bathe in the river styx out of thirteen hades figurines

The angst of Nico having a crush in Percy is a good concept to explore. Both in relationships with other characters and Nico's character development. But them being in a relationship together just irks me. It's not entirely problematic(at least i dont think it is? Correct me if im wrong), but still, the age gap makes me uncomfortable.

Ruegard: thirty-seven drakons out of one patrochilles parallel

Like I said, I love me some wlw ships. And while I've never really been a diehard fan of them, the fanart is amazing, so of course i ship them.

Frazel: 6/10

Rick try to make a girl and a boy stay friends challenge(impossible). But jokes aside, the 13-16 gap makes me annoyed. Three years isn't much but it matters in this situation. And it annoys me bacuse I want to like them. They have a cute dynamic but the maturity gap between them kinda gets in the way. That said, I would probably have liked them a lot better if they just stayed friends.

Valzhang: Nine eagles out of twenty hidden bunkers

Like I said before, I will consume almost every ship in a fandom. And if I find good fanfics of them, I will read it because I like exploring different characters' dynamics with each other. It's fun and I honestly think the pjo fandom should chill out a little. The amount of people who put others down for shipping something that isn't canon is way too much. Just let people enjoy their ships.

I think that's all? I didn't include Grover and Juniper because I honestly don't really have any opinions on them. They just exist and it's kinda like Rick just made them canon because he didn't want grover to feel left out. Let me know if there's other ships you'd want me to rate!

[dapper-lil-arts]

I mean, technically speaking, both appledash and rarijack are canon iirc it's just that rarijack is canon to equestria girls, whereas appledash is canon to the main series

(BTW, appledash is one of my top favorite ships :D, rarijack is also really good)

Eh idk, I was raised on borderlands, where characters say theyre gay out loud, talk about ex boyfriends and even get married, so saying "yo they held hands in canon and never called each other girlfriends" Just isn't enough for me. Sure I love roller coaster of friendship, but if someone can deny the fact that they're canon or not (which could easily be done because they only ever hold hands and call each other best friend) then y'know, it feels easy to dismiss, I'd rather have more concrete stuff.

same applies to the appledash thing, like they lightly imply maybe living together, and I'm sorry but that's just not enough for me. They do even less than korrasami in canon, meaning they dont even hold hands before the show abruptly ends lmao. It just doesn't really satisfy!

but hey shipping is like religion. It's all about faith, lmao you don't need proof that god is real. We deserve better though!

[hauntingofhouses]

hot take time about the mizu and akemi ship. y'all can disagree but i said what i said, because again, it's just an opinion!!!!

putting the rest under a cut so y'all are free to ignore this if you want. i'm just rambling anyway and, again, these are just my personal opinions.

okay like i gotta hand it to blue eye samurai like it's genuinely impressive that they've written their characters so well, like each one of them feels so real and fully-realised

and as a consequence of that, it actually. for the first time ever. has me rooting against a sapphic ship becoming canon endgame LIKE LMAO ???? i didn't think that was POSSIBLE but here we are ???

cuz like if you know me at all you know i usually instantly latch onto any femslash ship at any given opportunity. like i don't think yall understand. i was ride or die for korrasami before it was even remotely a thing, like at that point korrasami was still a CRACK SHIP in the fandom and i was gunning for it immediately and begging them both to leave mako's stupid ass!!!

but SOMEHOW this show, with all its gender fuckery galore and all its well written characters, has somehow made me look at the mizu/akemi ship and say "i'll pass." like dont get me wrong i was pinning my hopes on it initially in the first episode, but by the time i got to the end??? NAH.

like don't get me wrong they ARE cute and sexy on paper and i DO definitely see them developing feelings for each other (mizu towards akemi especially, less so the other way around because akemi just does not strike me as the pining type) but for an endgame? nah. it'd be weird and messy for both of them like!!! they'd be bad for each other!!!

they both want and need completely different things in life (mizu wants vengeance but needs acceptance/belonging; akemi wants freedom but needs autonomy and empowerment).

and they don't even share much in common that would help them bond in a romantic way? like not even interests-wise, but like. personality-wise too. their perceptions of life and approaches and experiences all directly contrast each other. like i know that they're narrative foils and all, which is great, excellent really, but romantically? there is no common ground between them.

besides, of course, both being AFAB and struggling with the patriarchy and misogyny, both having a surrogate father figure who raised them (swordfather for mizu; seki for akemi). aside from those things, they diverge in almost every single way?

like i do get the appeal of the "yin and yang" dynamic of opposites attract in ships (i have so many such ships from other fandoms after all), so i do suppose that, if given enough time for a really long and intense slow burn, it could work. but with all the plot plot plot the show's got going on, i don't know if that's going to be possible, especially now that mizu is ??? apparently going to london ????

and what would their endgame even look like? the two of them running off into the sunset together? why? when akemi has everything she wants and needs in edo palace? which, by the way, is completely the opposite of what mizu wants and needs, as mizu needs a place where she is free to be herself and is accepted and loved for who she is. she does not need, nor want, a life of political intrigue. she is not made for it, nor is it meant for her. akemi, on the other hand, is perfectly suited for such a life, while being completely unsuited for a life on the road, travelling, or living on a farm in the middle of nowhere. nor would akemi like or enjoy such a life either! she'd get freedom, yes, but it would hardly be fulfilling, especially now that she has decided that she wants greatness!

i don't know. if they become canon endgame, the show better put in the work. because this is a netflix adult animated show with the freedom to do that (unlike, say, cartoons on nickelodeon and disney where the creators all faced heavy censorship to get some rep in), so if they're taking the sapphic endgame route, they better buck up and put their backs into it because seeing the state of it right now, the chemistry is bone-dry and the prospects are disastrous!!!!

so until further developments prove me wrong and change my mind, every time i see mizu/akemi content somehow escape the confines of the mute function, i just reenact the gengar gay wrongs gif:

[redsanji]

citing the genders involved of a ship has always been a bad argument same sex ships shouldnt be defended just because they are same sex ships

saying but korrasami is the only same sex ship in lok or the first one is not a valid argument for korrasami.

korrasami is a bad product thrown in at the last minute at the cost of breaking the narrative forcing two people who were barely friends and barely interacted together.

(there was plenty of time they could have shown being close in b4 but that didnt happen ( i am not talking about a kiss) and while mako supported korra and talked about korra as a person asami failed in helping her

in the last two minutes korra was ooc

there have been too many times where a show gets defended because the decision they made was " progressive" where a ship gets defended because its same sex and they cite the genders involved.

Its funny how many times I see it either with bb or with korrasami where they claim if you dont ship it you are homophobic that you dont care about the lgbt community if you dont support korrasami " the only same sex ship in lok/first same sex ship in animated show involving an mc.

when they are the ones who try to cite the genders involved when ever they try to talk about korrasami/bb or defend it from criticism and try to attack the person attacking it by claiming homophobia.

especially with bb since if anything they are the ones who attacked blacksun for being a m/f ship and calling it forced due to being het

( I have seen them go but there are tons of feasible f/f ships and yet they are teasing the main girl with a guy when I am sorry but it doesnt matter if there are feasable same sex ships the writers arent obligated to make that happen.

and that just points to the idea that their only issue with blacksun was sun being a guy since they had to cite the genders involved.

that was the first thing they cited

(

and in bb's case they repeatedly made accusations of homophobia if you didnt see evidence for bb or acted like if you shipped blacksun instead of bb it was just because sun was a guy .

(its funny they shipped bb when the trailers first came out while blacksun only began due to their observed interactions in v1 which hinted at romance ( suns introduction was a lowmotion

Sun’s wink is accompanied by a slow-mo pan of his expression, followed by the camera focusing on Blake’s slack-jawed attention, along with a literal choir singing in the background while she stares at him. This is his introduction— to Blake, but more importantly, to the audience. This is the first moment we properly meet him, and it’s through this very particular gaze.

and we see sun actually helping blake ( while yang didnt interact with blake until v2.)

seriously do you not understand ship wars are a thing in every fndm

them jumping on the homophobia accusations seem to be them convincing themselves that the only reason someone could oppose that same sex ship was not liking gay people.

They think that because there arent that many same sex ships anyone who is okay with lgbt rep would support any same sex ship being canon or that its immune from being forced

someone can be gay and still support makorra over bb

no ship deserves automatic support just because of the genders/identities involved

nor does the genders involved mean you shouldnt oppose the ship

in a ship war between a m/f ship and a f/f ship saying the m/f shiip should have happened/had actual evidence not the f/f ship ( saying its a forced last minute retcon etc)

isnt homophobia or not caring about the lgbt community the point is about the writing

it doesnt matter that getting rid of k/a means there arent any canon same sex ships in lok

supporting a ship between two white people over a ship between a black man and a white woman isnt automatically racism it means you feel the other ship makes sense

jumping on the racism accusation is just a cheap tactic

I feel like when it comes to ship wars where there is a difference in identity between the two ships

like one ship being a same sex ship and the other being. A het ship

they either genuinely convinced themselves that anyone who would support a ship which happens to be m/f over a ship that happens to be f/f and say the f/f ship has no actual evidence etc

can only be doing it because of homophobia rather then because they don’t see any actual evidence and like the ship more.

or the accusations of homophobia are just a cudgel /shield for their ship where they try to protect itself from criticism and attack critics.

(In a situation where they threw in a ship in the last minute retconning stuff etc and this ship happens to be f/f it doesn’t matter if it’s the only same sex ship that isn’t a reasoning to support it there doesn’t need to be a canon same sex ship what the story needs is good writing. A ship shouldn’t be defended for meeting a criteria

and they try to make the you would ship it if it was a m/f ship but that’s often baseless accusations while there is evidence they would have supported the m/f ship of it was f/f given the times they complain about the genders involved

Or one ship

[captaindarksword]

I have to be frank the whole how could you be against korrasami its the only same sex ship in lok or the first canon same sex ship involving mc’s kind of shows to me that they understand on a deep level that korrasami was badly written that it had no buildup.

since they have to rely on the uniqueness ( the fact there wasnt a same sex ship involving a mc before)

to try and deflect criticism . when the fact its the only canon same sex ship in lok and the first canon same sex ship  involving mc is irrelevant for its a forced ship that shouldnt have happened . 

If i were to make one wish  to change lok it would be the last minute retcon korrasami didnt happen because the fact that its the first canon same sex ship involving mc should not be the reason why people support it.

korra nd asami were barely friends they barely interacted with each other censorship doesnt explain what happened with them. and korrasami shippers just took any positive interaction between them and claimed it was evidence and they take any moment and over play/hype/exaggerate along with infusing headcanons as if they were fact.

1. I recall someone claiming that korra chose asami to help her in b3 when nothing shows that 

2. they claimed that korra sent asami multiple letters when its implied its only one letter

3/ they pretend that korra sending asami a letter (she wouldnt have read the letter asami sent back so it would be more like korra venting in a letter which is easier to do then talking one to one .(from experience )  ) means asami is closer to her than the others when it doesnt . people can say stuff to someone they arent as close to because they felt that they would understand better saw an example of this from an anon on a different post,  or they didnt 

4. asami has never shown the ability to support korra the way she needed to tenzin and mako have heck in remembrances asami the one moment we had to see her try and support korra she failed she went youre the avatar of course we need you while tenzin succeded by bringing up korra as a person and mako got a whole speech about how he feels about korra the person. and cares about korra who she is and wouldnt bring up korra being the avatar as why he needs korra.

and  mako supported korra the way she needed to when she went off to confront zaheer and given their personalities mako would be the only one who would have done this

6. korra and asami barely interacted in b4 censorship doesnt explain that

7.  people try to go if it was a het ship you would see it when no ,  if korra/asami was a guy no one would ship korrasami, while people wouldship makorra even if one of  them were genderbent.

8.    on the blush that isnt romantic evidence she blushed at bolin complimenting her as well and she didnt have romantic feelings for him ( she was just in a sad/negative state

at best you could say maybe male asami hada crush on korra ( since with friendships between men and women dont really include compliments while two girls being friends can compliment each others appearance without it being romantic. while if two guys did that people would make gay jokes while two girls complimenting each others looks is considered normal.

( guys tend to avoid being too intimate/close with their guy friends do to not wanting to be seen as gay 

while two girls being friends dont have this problem

 alot of people ignore that to just go if one of them was gender swapped

“You can’t just port the actions of a female character over to her Rule 63 equivalent without alteration and expect it to mean anything.  Male!Asami never would have been helping Korra get dressed in the first place, and he probably wouldn’t have gotten a letter, either.  And portraying platonic male-female friendships without romantic undertones is a ridiculous tightwalk that doesn’t allow for compliments about appearance in the way female-female friendships do.

You can’t just port the actions of a female character over to her Rule 63 equivalent without alteration and expect it to mean anything.  Male!Asami never would have been helping Korra get dressed in the first place, and he probably wouldn’t have gotten a letter, either.  And portraying platonic male-female friendships without romantic undertones is a ridiculous tightwalk that doesn’t allow for compliments about appearance in the way female-female friendships do.

Build up requires, you know, building up.  Korra and Asami only had personal conversations in eight episodes out of the 26 that made up Books 3 and 4, and their amount of direct conversation tanked between the two Books, with Book 3’s five direct plot-related conversations dropping to zero in Book 4.  Since episodes with group conversations held steady at two, that means that episodes with any conversations between the two at all dropped from 11 to 6.  That’s… basically the opposite of buildup.  (And, for reference, Book 1 had nine episodes that dealt with Mako and Korra’s relationship directly, which is more than Korra and Asami had in both Books 3 and 4.)

If the show wanted to portray Asami as Korra’s closest friend and confidant, it should have found a way to make it seem like Korra actually valued Asami as such instead of just having her react to Asami pushing to do stuff or help her in almost every instance.  =P  Male!Asami would have probably read as a pushy Nice Guy if things played out the same way.

K/A wasn’t intended to salvage the show, no (and Bryke didn’t seem to want to continue past Book 4 anyway).  Given Bryan’s post, it’s far more likely that it was intended to salvage Bryke’s conscience.

Shippers base speculation on ridiculously limited evidence regardless of gender, particularly when the characters involved are attractive.  That doesn’t mean that shows actually expect their viewers to see something like Kuvira and Tonraq looking at each other as romantic.  =P

“

9. to be frank if asami was a guy I doubt male asami would be the one to help korra get dressed given their lacking relationship

( dont give me but korrasami was more popular as an argument to it having evidence or being planned zutara was more popular then kataang.)

www . tumblr . com/ikkinthekitsune/146525844549/ive-just-been-thinking-lately-what-if-some-of

5. 

[waffliesinyoface]

things i liked in Legend of Korra:

Korra - she's a fun protagonist in her own right but she's also good because of her contrast to aang. The establishing shot of her at age, like, 3, realizing that she can shoot fire from her hands and yelling "IM THE AVATAR" while her parents actively age a dozen years from sheer stress is golden. I like that airbending takes her the longest to figure out specifically because she doesnt understand the concept of not attacking things.

Tenzin - i am a sucker for the grumpy old man with a soft heart archetype. also i like that scene in season 3 where zaheer is like "now im an airbender and i'm definitely a match for this old monk" and tenzin promptly slams him into the walls. The old guy is ALWAYS the most dangerous character in a martial arts movie, dummy.

Tenzin's kids: i dont remember much about them but i remember them being funny. The contrast between Tenzin who is trying very hard to live up to the expectations of Aang and be a Serious Airbending Monk and the kids' innate instinct to be brats is good.

Season 2 in general is a hot mess and the flashback to The First Avatar is no exception because it does fuck with the established timeline and it sort of retcons the lore for the earth kingdom and water tribes, and the worldbuilding is kind of iffy... BUT... it was a cool idea. They at least tried to do something interesting. People living on lion turtles is neat. Spirits who can and will fuck with humans because theyre there is good.

Kuvira's design and initial characterization - hot lady with big eyebrows and a sharp uniform and a smug expression who announces that shes overthrowing the useless king by crushing his crown in front of him. god. i was downbad. unfortunately this was spoilt by A: mako, korra, and the show in general going "no the useless boy king DESERVES to be in charge :(" and B: by *checks notes* having kuvira's plans involve detonating several magical nuclear weapons...? no, that cant be right, that would be stupid...

I will begrudgingly say that korrasami being canon was nice because it was a very visible gay relationship. I just wish asami had been like. halfway interesting as a character.

Things i didnt like:

basically everything else, whoops

[viviyaan]

I honestly dont like Mako x Asami or Mako x Korra like no offense to anyone who does like the ships but honestly they’re both kinda toxic, first mako basically cheats on asami with korra, I know that korra had kissed him first, she was wrong for that and apologized to mako and bolin, unlike mako who continues to act as if everythings normal and that the kiss never happened, he flirts with korra continuously while dating asami, and gets into fights with korra when they started dating, never trying to understand her side of the story, then breaks up with her and when she looses her memory about the fight, he lies to her about it and says it’s fine and while korra was gone mako kissed ASAMI?? how does this man fumble so bad? Though I do not hate mako he was just way too much of a dick to his gfs for most of the show soo…KORRASAMI FOR LIFE!!!! 💪💪💪💪💪

[shadowfiredemonwolf]

the bad defenses to korrasami or bb ( the but there arent many canon lgbt rep ships defense) and other things

  with korrasami I recall one person going korrasami is the only same sex ship in lok claiming that if you arent alright with that you  dont care about the lgbt community 

sorry you can still carea bout lgbt rep and lgbt community and still say that korrasami shouldnt have happened even if it  meant there were not examples of lgbt rep in legend of korra because good writing is more important then lgbt rep

for korrasami was just a last minute retcon that came at the cost of breaking the narrative ( which pointed to makorra) by throwing korrasami in at the last two minutes at cost of korra being ooc ( her going on a vacation is completely ooc) korra and asami were barely friends they barely interacted with each other  you cant claim censorship prevented them from even interacting that much

while narrative pointed to makorra ( heck in the very finale itself when they talked about not finding korra they focused on makos worry not asami ) 

mako was the one who went with korra to confront zaheer while asami did nothing and would have no reason not to go) mako was the one who supported her

korra in remembrances asami tried to help her going of course we need you youre the avatar  which failed  (because korras whole problem was focusing on her being the avatar)

mako got a speech about what korra meant to him as a person tenzin helped korra by focusing on korra the person. 

asami and korras personalities were incompatible with each other and barely friends  (you have to wear shipping goggles to see any evidence like the car scene claim in v3 which was the first time they were friends ( or the but the letter argument ( one letter which korra sent as venting doesnt mean closeness ) 

it doesnt really matter that korrasami not being canon would mean there wasnt any lgbt rep (its funny how people try to act like we should be okay with makorra not being canon because there are other shows where the hets hip becomes canon as if thats all we care about the genders involved which comes off as projecting they are focused on the fact there arent many same sex ships htat are canon  they would be upset at it not being canon just based on the genders involved

) sorry but it doesnt matter that there arent many canon same sex ships good writing is more important  this reminds me of a post about  the argument people try to make for blackwashing white characters that there are way more white characters available when there is the option of just making new characters and doing your best so  they will get attention/popularity the work that  characters  like peter or wolverine got they werent popular from the start but they got more popular overtime  due to people falling in love for those characters  even if at first they dont get that much attention this happens with all types of shows 

rather then forcing a same sex ship at the last minute make a show with the canon same sex ship which got buildup , development etc that it should get ( even if you have to be subtle about it. ( lets say if mako was a girl and asami  was a guy or if korra was a guy from the start  I would still ship makorra and korra/asami ship would be almost nonexistent  I feel like part of the reason korra and asami was popular was due to irrational hate for mako and the fact they are two attractive girls  the whole you would ship it if it was a het ship accusation comes off as projection

 ( to be honest  I hear people bring up censorship  with sailor neptune and uranus but one of the things I hear was that they didnt change anything else about it so people still found it weird that just cousins were that close  ( coincidentally from what I hear in  japan cousins dating isnt considered weird so in japan a same sex couple who involved 2 cousins  wouldnt be weird  )   I dont mean anything  by putting it hear its just a thought I had)

and same thing with rwby ( the accusation that if you dont support a specific same sex ship  say its forced in favor of a het ship you somehow dont care about the lgbt community or that we have t osupport that specific same sex ship because of lgbt rep is a idiotic argument especially when I hear the same people who claimed ilia being gay was bad because she was on the bad guys side  by their logic they should be happy just because its lgbt rep you shouldnt care about anything else besides that its rep 

of course the claims of psycho lesbian  was bs but their logic is that all that matters is lgbt rep adn that we have to support it  no matter what when they try to act like we have to support bb because its a same sex ship that its lgbt rep

when it reeks of direction change 

they gave blacksun years of teasing mutual attraction and development since v1 to v6 goodbye scene while bb didnt get anything

sun was very important for blakes character development and followed her to help her out not caring about getting anything out of it

( I find it funny when they try to call blake and yang  beauty and beast played straight  as romantic ship when it fits blacksun more given the above mentions)   with adam being an inversion/subversion ( people  try to claim that it was planned from the start  if it was then why was it done so badly why didnt they start teasing it until v7 at worst ( last two eps of v6 at best though nothing there was inherently romantic  moment all of it could be considered platonic moments ( I have seen some bb shippers try to use the other romantic moments for a different ship as a stepping stool for bb ignoring the context , the way the characters acted etc were different

like the argument that since renora got a plane scene that means that blake and yang having a moment on the plane scene where their hands touched is romantic when the way the characters acted and the scenes were portrayed were different not to mention renora being flagrant since v1

renora: plane scene focused solely on them and nora did lay head on shoulders thing as the music about noras love for ren is brought up and the scene is solely focused on them 

the blake and yang moment: a moment where blake was feeling pset yang holds her hand to comfort her reciprocating the motion blake did  when yangs hand shook  ( which blake also did when weiss was facing jacques ( she held her hand in the same way )  and ruby also proceeding to comfort blake it was more like a team rwby scene 

there is no doubt in my eyes that if sun and yangs genders were swapped or blakes gender was swapped  their would be crys of queerbaiting people would say it doesnt matter that the songs had the words black the beast or yellow beauty in them.

(lets be real here the songs arent canon in rwby and the fact that blake and yangs songs include those lines doesnt = them being planned from the start 

its ignoring the idea that blake and yang could both end up in relationships with different people with someone representing the beast or beauty etc with them just having a platonic relationship  and those lines being there to emphasize the partnership ( I mean adam had  multiple allusions to beast but he ended up an enemy they have no problem pulling twists on allusions or not retelling the story  due to that being too predictable )

there was even a post talking about sun being the yang to blakes yin  and the beauty to her beast and there beign someone who would need to be yangs yin /beast ( there wouldnt be anything wrong with this )

lets be real here with bumbleby you cant even whine and go there woldnt be any lgbt couples

there is also freezerburn ( I know a good number of anti bb people who either out right ship it  or say they should have just done that if they wanted to have a same sex ship involving two girls in team rwby) or possibility of yang being paired up with a side character etc ( if we are focused on yang) if you want a mc to be lgbt

ignoring the lgbt side characters like jaunes sister

its funny how they would complain about a  lgbt characters being on the bad guys side even if they are meant to have redemption nad change sides

then they will talk about just wanting a lgbt character for another show when it comes offf as them just wanting a specific character to be lgbt or specific characters to be in a same sex ship

It reminds me of a post someone made complaining that when there is a popular same sex ship  they either pair them up with men 

or have one of them end up in a same sex ship with someone else which just illustrates that its not about lgbt rep its their specific same sex ship they ship.   like imagine  this scenario  instead of yang being with blake she would be with weiss) 

it shows that they jst  use the fact its a same sex ship as a shield from criticism or claim it should happen just because its a same sex ship  if that was all about they should be happy about their being a same sex ship period a typical ship war  only their defense is colored by lgbt rep ( not to mention some people fetishizing that stuff)

 I even recall hearing about bb shippers attacking freezerburn shippers saying it would be better for freezerburn to be canon while blacksun happens given that blacksun got years of teasing mutual attraction and development that it would be bad writing to  throw it out.if it was just about wanting a same sex ship they should be okay with  freezerburn.

or to use this regarding lgbt characters they should be okay if the first lgbt character ending up being with the villain side or say its wrong to criticize any faults with the lgbt character )

if all that matters if itsgood writing 

it reminds me of this statement

‘Final Fantasy XVI’ Producer On The Game’s Alleged Lack Of Ethnic Diversity: “We Simply Want The Focus To Be Less On The Outward Appearance Of Our Characters” ( the notion that its wrong or racist to make a game with a lack of ethnic diversity rolls my eyes)

people should be allowed to focus on the characters in the ship , the characters relationships etc rather then filling in a quota which doesnt need to be met the notion that there needs to be a quota for a lgbt characters is bs it doesnt matter that korrasami  is the only same sex ship still shouldnt have happened there wouldnt be anything wrong with that

caring about lgbt people doesnt mean you have to demand or think there should be a quota for lgbt relationships  in a show writing a show where there isnt a same sex ship doesnt make you homophonic   and  the but korrasami is the only same sex ship put having lgbt ships canon above whether or not you think its good writing.  and will baselessly try to use the genders involved as a shield by claiming homophobia which means nothing its just a ship

and the fact they go route says to me that deep down they now korrasami was nonexistent but because of desire for lgbt rep either fetishizing it or due to a genuine desire for lgbt rep and having a bs idea that because there were tons of canon het couples it would be okay to throw away one het couples buildup for a last minute retcon  is annoying

that they are the ones who let genders involved blind their view of the ship

same thing applies to bb it was popular from the start because they were two girls they were friends but didnt get anything hinting at romance till v7 while they took  any postiive interaction even the most minor  as evidence for their ship wearing thick shipping goggles like v3 finale trying to claim adams statement about destroying everything blake loves which includes friends and family. to try and claim it means yang is a romantic interest when it doesnt  while trying to do the best to ignore the actual teasing mutual attraction and development blacksun got since v1 finale to v6 ep 1 goodbyee scene which wasromantic   in portrayal)

like someone trying to turn him into a wingman when he never was he tried to get blake sent to her friends   Ihave seen people try to bs and claim there was anything about the scene he saw in v3 that would point to blake having romantic feelings when it was blake being upset that her friend lost her arm because of her

I even saw someone try to claim that sun not getting injured permanently is evidence  which is bs

or going well blake didnt got shield sun from ilia after he got hurt ignoring that ilia immediately focused o nher while adam went towards yang to hurt her more .

( adam knows nothing about blakes relationship with yang  

( none of the v6 finale moments were inherently romantic  I have seen people argue that since renora got a plane scene that means blake and yang scene must be romantic no it doesnt and the way the characters were acting were different basically framing and context are different

which points to renora being romantic and blake and yang being platonic moment 

sun winking at blake in v1 being viewed as ship tease doesnt mean we have to view yang winking at blake like that yang asking blake for the dance isnt romantic friends can dance 

the framing and context for blacksun scene pointed to ship tease angelic choir the slow motion and focus on blakes face while nothing about yang winking was treated as special  if you were to remove the names and genders and showed these two scenes two someone they would pick blacksun for romantic ship not to mention yang winked at many people before 

while blacksun dance got actual focus

to quote something I have seen before

I think my initial disdain for the way Sun and Neptune are written came from how sick and tired I am of straight ships being forced on the audience when lots of us are in the lgbta community. Part of it was because my gay ships were sinking I’ll admit but honestly I’m just sick of forced straight ships especially in one of the only shows with enough well written female characters to /actually/ have believable gay ships. I don’t think I hate Sun and Neptune but I do hate how forced the ships are.

I think this is all the explanation needed(and all you need to dismiss people trying to take moral superiority over liking Bumblebee). Something the toxic side of the fandom loves to do is project and project hard. They cannot understand why someone would not think like them or like the things they do unless there’s something wrong with them or they contextualize it through what they themselves would do.And that’s one of them accidentally explaining how that relates to Bumblebee: wasps like it because it’s a gay ship. They thought Black Sun was forced because it was not a gay ship. Therefore, since everyone must either think like them or be defective, clearly you think Bumblebee is forced because it’s not a straight ship. You don’t like it because it’s gay.“

basically they are just calling blacksun forced because it was a straight ship if sun was a girl they wouldnt make that claim so I cant take anytime I hear someone try to pull the you would ship bb if it was a m/f pairing  or wouldnt be calling it forced if it was a m/f pairing for if sun was a woman and yang a man they wouldnt be shipping bb and would call bb forced

the idea that its possible 

( the idea that if you had two possible same sex ships to make “believable” ( in the opinions of the guy above )  then you should make  them happen is bs the writers should make the ships that   they want canon (as long as its well written and has proper buildup throwing away the buildup for another ship like in a last minute retcon  or sudden direction change will earn my annoyance because with korrasami it was just a publicity stunt with bb it comes off as either an attempt for ratings boost or due to it being popular with certain vas ( even if it was originally planned from the start I would think its best to scrap the old plan given all the buildup they put in for blacksun like how how i met your mother people should have scrapped the original plan its a mix of doing what is best for the story and when they come up with ships do what they want but if the writing points in a certain way they  should go in that direction    ( I do not think blacksun was ever a red herring you dont give a red herring that much build up) 

 if they chose not to make any same sex ships involving rwby that would be fine  its projection when they accusse people of saying bb is forced based on the genders involved when they detested blacksun because it was a het ship.

the idea that because team jnpr got paired with each other and were a team of m/f partners its obligated to have the same happen with rwby is idotic its not double standards to do that

adam has a hatred for humanity he is a racist he would detest two humans working together)

when it comes to ships the genders involved is just a minor part and should never overcome the other parts of the characters interaction with one another , the cues that went in , the focus that went into the characters , the actual ship tease for the characters  etc

things like genders involved or diversity is irrelevent compared to that if say at the start of rwby you went I want bb and white rose to happen  that would be fine there wasnt anything in the show that went against that the show was just about to start

but if you complained about the ships being teased because they were teasing the characters  into het ships like blacksun instead of the same sex ship on  the basis of it being a het ship  (when there was nothing in the show interactions that hinted at bb the fact that there were feasible same sex ships is irrelevent  as long as they werent actually hinting at those ships in the show )  or complained about people shipping them that is wrong   like bb shippers who complained about people shipping blacksun after v1 when blake and yang didnt even interact. 

and using the genders involved of a ship to shield your ship as criticism because people put writing as more important then something irrelevant like that 

with lok case they could always hope for a canon same sex ship happening in another show 

 ( korrasami was forced as hell)

and in rwby its not like  bb was the only possibility for a canon same sex ship involving a member of team rwby

even if it was there were other lgbt characters if they chose not to have any of team rwby be into girls that would be fine ( you dont like to accept it or try to claim anyone who says this would be mad at 4 girls being into girls but no the only thing that would earn my annoyance is with bb case which feels forced and reeks of direction change  due ot the buildup to blacksun while bb got nothing  you  have to twist any minor moment  even the most platonic moment to see as evidence  wearing shipping goggles) like going but yang was upset about blake leaving 

its especially annoying when people try to use the popularity to claim its popularity means that there was actual things teasing it when no it really doesnt zutara was most popular ship in atla but there was nothing to the ship

.

lok korrasami was just popular due  the fact korra and asami were cute girls and to irrational hate for mako for daring to be flawed in a way that cant be romanticized  and mishandled a love triangle  ( korra was just as responsible for the kiss in b1 ( and the notion that mako needed to be punished for his mistake in b1 and b2 is absurd mako not being specifically punished  and getting into a relationship with korra in b1 isnt him being rewarded for his mistake  korra got what she wanted in the end of b1 lok always acknowledged makos mistakes and that he was in the wrong in b1   ) so they shipped korrasami out of spite doing that tumblr post says of pairing two girls in a love triangle together rather then the guy that got actual teasing

korra and asami were barely friends they barely interacted with each other ( people try to claim censorship prevented it but censorship wouldnt have prevented korra and asami from interacting  which would actual show that they were friends that asami could support korra

bryke admitted they didnt even ask  until the middle of the finale

 but asami failed while mako succeeded  mako was there when she went to confront zaheer asami wasnt and mako knew what he needed to do to support her letting her go on her own .

mako in remembrances got a speech about korra and what she meant to him as a person etc

asami just went she is the AVATAR of course we need you which failed korras whole problem was seeing herself as the avatar first it was tenzin who helped her by framing it as how she grew as the person says to me a nock against asami. asami and korras personality is incompatible with each other  while mako and korra overcame the mutual flaws that led to the b2 break up ( that was framed in a way that said they would someday get back together that they still have feelings for each other

) neither of them were ready for a relationship at that time and wouldnt have worked with anyone

korra was ooc in the last minute of lok

and  I find the appeal to popularity argument annoying because a ship being popular doesnt mean there is actual evidence for the ship it just means people like it and I dont think anyone who makes that argument has any right to condemn reylo or zutara  etc

[raisinchallah]

ok my theoretical ideas for femslash poll.. legacy tumblr era stuff swan queen the fact they keep getting forgotten is so insane to me like they were IT that show was so fucking bad but regina was IT gelphie a bit of an out of left field on but like it is real brittana as a tip of the hat to santanas IMPACT karmy faking it because faking it was a social experiment we need to admire from a distance with hazmat suits... also thinking about this bad poll i saw that put like fucking princess peach and daisy on there which hsa no femslash footprint i think u just invented that but like if we are being honest to tumblr maybe we gotta put ruby and sapphire from steven universe on there u know like they had an impact i realize talking about steven universe on this website is somehow like scary but that cannot erase their impact and then i think because i do not want to give it all to the carmilla webseries but like they were impactful in that era i think more like collage of every version of laura and carmilla throughout time korrasami OF COURSE bubbline duh! rosemary and vrisrezi for me specifically but it can be narrowed down to simply rosemary then like 90s femslash pioneers xena and gabrielle of course of course idk if it would be funny for me but i dont think theres enough xena fans to vote here to put multiple slots on there like gabrielle/aphrodite or callisto/xena or something but i know those warriors are out there now the next question is the star trek girlies cuz i think kiradax is the most popular on tumblr but seven/janeway is legacy but i dont care about it then theres weird more niche stuff like michael/georgiou or you know the absolute pioneers making the first femslash zines out there with like chapel/uhura their minds in the 70s but back to 90s icons i feel like some buffy option should be there for again posterity idk if u go with willow/tara or buffy/faith but whatever they are out there and then for meeee talia and susan from b5 tho they would get mercilessly destroyed in the first round love loses then like anime girlies anthy and utena of course of course also 90s icons haruka and michiru duuuh madoka and homura of course nana and nana maybe some niche or out of left field options too tho something that could stand a fighting chance would be like misato/ritusko from evangelion or like you know as a shoutout to lesbian shounen rivals besties jolyne and hermes from jojo part 6 but these are just like from things people have actually heard of fadsjkl;ds ok then like video game girlies i say as i pretend to know about video games but love and respect towards alphys and undyne and then idk i think it would be funny to throw something kinda silly like chell/glados in there cuz idk anything about that but i respect them so much like idk maybe the evil computer flooding your room with neurotoxin is gay #equality ok actually this is getting so long and bad and i can still think of a million more things to add but i wanna draw goodbye for now

[loopy777]

I was kinda joking, but honestly this entire back and forth has been facinating.

Because there IS a divide within the fandom between those that looks at the ending the way i've described it all, with reactions ranging "this is dumb, to "fucking terrible, breaks the themes of the series wide open", and those who dont who generally think it was somewhere vbtween average, to okay, to amazing.

They just dont see it and think the other side hating it are making a mountain out of a molehill, or seeing things that arent there.

But its not like the people who hate the ending are some fringe minority either, as from what i've seen it could be anywhere from 10% to half the readership, its kinda hard to get an exact gauge, other than it seems to be a huge section of the fandom.

So clearly the issues they see is something that ressonated(in a negative way) with a lot of people, while others just arent able to see it this way, and gets anywhere from confused(you) to angry(i had one guy yesterdays who essentially called me a uncultured swine incapable of good story analysis) when exposed to this viewpoint.

I honestly find that a rather facinating divide.

Well, I'm not engaged much with the anime fandom, but from what I've heard, the MHA fandom is considered especially toxic. I don't know if that leads to this kind of nitpicking, but it wouldn't surprise me.

I've personally always made it a specific policy, even when I absolutely loathe the work in question, to avoid nitpicking (and personal attacks on the creators). I could dissect Gene Yang's AtLA comics panel-by-panel finding something to complain about, if I wanted, and I'm pretty sure there would have been an audience for that back when they were coming out. But I refrained and stuck to criticisms of problems that come together to bring the work down as a whole. I also make a point of calling out stuff I like in my critiques, even if it's minor, and try not to turn it into a backhanded compliment (but I admit I might not succeed at that last goal consistently).

I'm not saying this to congratulate myself or anything like that. I just feel like staying above that level of toxicity makes for a much healthier, productive, and informative atmosphere. I'm not saying it's more engaging, because Hating is a lot of fun in its own way and I suspect that's why it eventually becomes self-sustaining, but Hating also burns a lot of energy, and I'd rather be lazy.

Anyway, I guess I'm saying not to put too much stock into fandom reaction. I mean, going by the fandom reaction to LoK's finale, the last-minute Korrasami was the biggest writing failure in the entire show, and that ain't even close to true. And now it's considered the best part of the entire series, but I don't think anyone is arguing that the writing around it somehow became good since it aired. ;)

[orangepanic]

remember when u were rating LoK ships?

OMG WHY IS THE WHOLE TEAM AVATAR CONECTED TO OPAL!?!?! BOLIN AND OPAL ARE THE CUTESTTT AND LONG LIVE MAKORRAAAAAAAAA AND BOO KORRASAMI!!!! AND WHY ARE U THINKING LIN IS GAY??? THATS JUST COLD. SO COLD.

Sry for all caps im just passionate abt makorra hope u change ur mind abt Mako and Opal! Pls dont put them together. Its just not natural.

Sincerely, A Makorra Fan 💖💞💖

I'm not entirely sure what this is referencing?

To my knowledge I've never rated LOK ships. I have some that I like more than others, but that's just my own tastes and opinions. It's not like I think any are objectively bad or good. Shipping is all about what you like to see personally and your own interpretations of the characters. Even ships I personally don't like I don't think are "bad" ships. I just don't care for them. Any rating would just be my own tastes, like saying I like tilapia more than mackerel. And if I occasionally say Irosami is the best ship I hope people know I mean the best ship for me.

Comparatively I've written Bopal way more than Makopal, too, which I think appears as a background ship in two fics? So you really have nothing to worry about there. Makorra is actually the second most common ship on my AO3.

I've never written Lin as gay nor claimed her to be. Kyalin is a fine ship and there's nothing wrong with that headcanon but I've only written her with men myself. Bumi, Zolt, Mako. So I don't know where you got that from.

You know I love my rare pairs though so you should expect me to shake up common pairings just for the hell of it. That's how I roll. Anything you don't like, go ahead and skip! There's plenty of Makorra, too.

[blakebow]

2/2 keep the love triangle ( because I dont want to say the haters were right in claiming mako deserved to end the show single ( I feel that the irrational hate for mako is what led to korrasami being so popular) ( rather then go with asami as an equalist spy unless I was allowed to make a b4 remake beforehand

2/2

hard disagree on that, fam. the love triangle was totally unnecessary after the first season. after that, have him stick with either korra or asami and don't waver on that.

the only thing i'd take out of a remake is korrasami's existence because it was worthless and ruined the finale for me lmao. makorra should've been endgame endgame and nothing will ever change my mind on that.

[trashyeggroll]

i promise this isn't bait lmao. im actually just watching rewatching SG too and im on alex's coming out ep and it was way better than i remembered. i liked maggie a lot so far and i know they don't end up together but from what i remember they were cute, alex especially with her 'i have a girlfriend' bit. but yeah. yall aint discuss relationship fundamentals? cmon. i know it's the writers fault and not just SG. so many gay ships are straight up lacking, just physical and cute not deep at all. :/

Lol no worries anon, I try not to come onto people’s tags anyway, but I think being able to see the red flags in the actual relationship is pretty reasonable. I understand the appeal, and when I first watched SG, I was 100% here for it... but then you look again, and maybe you yourself are a little older lol, and... issues. Which is actually fine, and realistic in a somewhat unsettling way (this show comes into my house... hits me in the face... leaves), but I still think this pairing has an outsized dedication to how much I would tell my best friend to gtfo if she was Alex and explaining that relationship to me

But, I still love the whole coming out picture and especially Alex going to Eliza and being comforted—I have never discussed a breakup with my mom so my Deep Seated Issues are all 🥺🥺🥺

Re: ships in general, it feels like we’ve reached critical mass where enough people have realized that breadcrumbs aren’t enough, studios have realized they want to make more money off of us, and more and more of us are getting the opportunity to tell our own stories for ourselves. So the wlw pairings that don’t really hit, we know it’s lip service but they tend to be short-lived anyway, and still quite male gaze-y though not as bad as like... the Selma Blair/SMG kiss from Cruel Intentions. They think we can’t see that shit 🙄

Demand! Better! And not just happy go lucky perfection relationships (Dansen) but also ones that are complex and long lasting (ThunderGrace) or even classic tropes thoughtfully rearranged to reflect how wlw lived experience would change them (Catradora)