#DA2 meta

[erme-maererme]

the funny thing about dragon age is that sometimes the narrative of the game is aware of the narrative of the chantry and separates itself from it, and sometimes the narrative of the chantry becomes the narrative of the game, and it just keeps hopping back and forth in this respect. which not so subtly points to who the writing identifies with and in what contexts.

there's a degree of absurdity to reading codex entries such as "turned the purity of justice into the unthinking hatred of vengeance". it could have worked if it were just the chantry/other characters/even anders himself saying it, but character codex entries are held as the ultimate truth of the game (on par with game mechanics instructions via codex), this particular passage is supposed to function as an argument and explain to the player who anders is. but i argue that it only makes sense within a very particular paradigm. why are "justice" and "vengeance" treated as opposites? why is justice pure and vengeance an "unthinking hatred"? how is the line between the two defined? who defines it?

it is not surprising exactly, christianity and the concomitant discourse have been deeply embedded in the story from the very beginning, but one must keep an eye out for when it rears its head unquestioned by the narrative of the games.

sure, there are instances when the games are critical of the chantry and what it represents, or at least offer the player some roleplaying options in this respect. same for the fade-related things, you have merril’s “spirits are people” which denies this division into demons and spirits as bad and good emotions, in dai you have cole and solas's interpretaion that goes somewhat beyond the chantry's taxonomy of demons.

ultimately, however. cole "the good spirit" or "not really a spirit anymore" lets the templar who killed him (and how many more?) go either way. this is what humanity means, this is what true compassion means, forgive and forget. solas's interpretation merely increases the number of categories of spirits and demons, he still separates them into morally good and bad emotions/concepts. it is curiously close to what has previously been held as the chantry's teachings.

merril is portrayed as eventually proven wrong by the narrative, a pride demon outsmarts her and forces her to kill the keeper and the rest of the clan.

interestingly, other than anders, merril is the only other character (and the two of them are your two main mage companions in da2) whose doom is brought on by a demon. a demon of pride to punish you for trying to restore your culture that has been systematically and most violently erased. a demon of vengeance to bring on your execution for resisting the oppression and annihilation of your people. the conclusion to draw here, other than "trying to change the status quo ends badly, so don't you try anything", is also that the chantry's interpretation was right. and it is quite curious as well that despite blood magic being much more accepted among the dalish (the keeper herself is a blood mage too) than under andrastianism, they treat merril with such hostility for it. or for trying to restore the eluvian. why do they suddenly agree with the chantry?

1 the existence of the blighted magisters (the architect, corypheus), the elves (i'm sorry the elven empire and the evanuris) now being responsible for the blight is also how the chantry was definitely right about something

then, there's the whole schtick with “oh this particular feeling/experience is A Sin”. directly borrowed from the christian tradition. so we have desire demons. and pride demons. the rage demon in the fade who was a mage just way too angry at the oppressors (i reference this note here).

in conclusion, while dragon age offers some room about spirits and demons and the chantry, enough for your alternative interpretation of the text to be a time well spent, the hauptnarrative, the leading idea, remain such as they are. when it matters, the chantry stops being merely a speaker position (that is, one of many perspectives) in the tapestry of thedas. its point of view, its mode of knowing the world is how information is revealed to the player. oh, the chantry meets the sky, why? well, you see, the guy who was fighting to save his people is just too possessed by a demon now, that is the reason. this is where our story has been heading the entire time. a pity the mages could not find a compromise with the fantasy stand-in for fascists templars who intended to kill them all just for existing because of this guy. you are expected to sympathize with the chantry and elthina specifically (sebastian spells it out for you, that's why he is there), it is supposed to be the last straw for hawke to stop supporting anders, this should be a step too far.

it is the sentiment the player might have in relation to the real life equivalent of the chantry that is expected to prevail over your knowledge of elthina's direct complicity and the chantry's ideological and physical support of the oppression that are responsible for creating a regime where it is normalized to order people into prisons to later kill them all without consequence simply for the way they were born. importantly, i mean this not necessarily and solely in the sense of being religious, but in terms of how the player is expected to view hegemonic institutions. within a dominant reading the receiver interprets a text the same way the author does, they have the same blind spots, they define common sense the same way. if we identify the said blind spots and the aspects of the story that are treated uncritically by the narrative, we can glean on the culture (with its ideological dimension) in which the text was made.

2 it has been said before that the most interesting explorations of oppression that dragon age allowed are largely a by-product of the writing approach focused on representing different points of view and allowing a vast range of player choices. it made the games well-written, it did not make them unbiased

3 if everything else is not a hint enough, there is textual evidence that the portrayal of the templars in da2 was inspired by fascism, "the tranquil solution" and "death-squads" are very pointed references to nazis. and then they turn around and expects me to disagree with anders about mage rights. it is absolutely no wonder that the fandom is so divided about him

4 and elthina is certainly complicit. she appointed meredith, she could have removed her from her position (it wasn't just cullen's right to do so), she could have supported the mages. and it's the chantry that promotes this violence, gives it justification and orders it. it is the system elthina is quite successful in and the one that grants the templars the right to enact the annulment

i have set out to write this to explain to myself the dissonance that follows my experience of playing the games, my freedom for interpretation comes with the constant awareness of the story's own views. to recount, in this essay i've established how, despite its occasional attempts to criticize the chantry as a system and analyze various perspectives on it, dragon age treats its narrative as the ultimate truth. the magical lore is regularly used to affirm a point being made about power relations between oppressed groups and the oppressor. they converge to illustrate how attempts to change the status quo or resistance against the oppressive system are punished. to demonstrate that one must simply accept the system. and how, ultimately, the system knows better than you. vigilskept et al (read the tags too, i meant to say) discuss the ties of such ideologemes to colonialism.

in other words, magic and all the related lore are a metaphor, and not a fixed one, it is worth investigating how it is used to support the main narrative and themes. thus, "he is possessed though" or "she did blood magic" are not reasons on their own. they may be presented as self-explanatory by the text, but as a player you need to acknowledge that the fade, magic and spirits are simply narrative tools to amplify the leading idea. so feel free to question them as well.

[mikkeneko]

While writing that Dragon Age 2 post the other day, I made a narrative connection I had never made before.

I was writing about the Templar route, and about how the game makes no bones about how the Templar route is the evil route, it's clearly narratively marked as such. Because the structure of the game sets itself up from the start to make Hawke have some sympathy for the mages: they are the child of a mage and the sibling of a mage. This is an issue that Hawke cannot exempt themselves from having opinions on.

But that said, yes, you can choose the Templar route. You can decide that the tragedy of your family being ripped apart by the mage plight has hardened Hawke's heart against them. You can join forces with the Order that has hunted your family members their whole lives. You can choose to tighten the iron fist, instead of choosing to break it. You can become the ruler of Kirkwall. You can kill your sister.

And then I realized: That's Meredith's story.

Meredith, whose sister was a mage, the sister who died from it and ripped her family apart in the process. Meredith, who hardened her heart against people like her sister and dedicated the rest of her life to punishing others like her. Meredith, who joined causes with the Templar order who made that happen. Meredith, who took over the city.

You can choose to become Meredith. The game lets you do that. But you have to know -- as you climb over her corpse to ascend her bloodied throne -- that it's not a 'good' choice.

[exhausted-archivist]

Envy!Sebastian: Thoughts and Meta

Been thinking about the envy demon designed for Sebastian in the cut da2 dlc Exalted March and it’s really a great narrative thing.

So, I'm going to cover this in parts because this is going to be long and I'm going to shove it under the cut. But I'm going to talk about this in the following groups: How Envy works The Narrative Impact of Envy How I think Envy!Sebastian would happen

The TLDR:

Envy isn't like other demons, Sebastian wouldn’t have to be envious of anyone. Envy is called envy because it is envious of those it steals the face of. Additionally, envy doesn't possess a host like other demons because envy replaces them and will either kill or imprison its victim. The goal for envy is to gain more power, skill, and become more grand and inspired and it will do anything to achieve that and even hop to a new victim to climb the power ladder.

The narrative impact of envy is one of deep psychological horror, especially when considering that it passes off as a perfect replica that more times than not lovers and friends don't notice the swap. In envy's pursuit of more power, it will do anything within the swapped person's logic to achieve that. Taking extreme actions if it can be excused by some in character means. In the case of Sebastian that would be his faith, self-perceived duty, and vengeance.

I can't summarize how I think Envy!Sebastian would play out so that's all below the cut.

How Envy Works

So first things first, envy is a rare demon. It's not common despite the feelings and motivations of envy might be in the people of Thedas. It doesn't possess its victims. Technically, unlike other demons, envy doesn't have a host. Envy gets its name because it is envious of its victim. The goal for envy is to become you.

It is an ambush demon that once it traps you, it takes its time learning you. It's primary goal is to know you so well that it can take your shape and be you. Once it believes it has learned enough about you to be you, it will shapeshift to take your form and then it will either kill you or imprison you.

Envy picks its victims based on merit; typically people of leadership positions or high standing. Once it has taken over someone's identity it isn't ever satisfied. Envy seeks out more; more power, skill, inspired identities.

We know from the codex entry about envy that once it takes over someone it does so in such a complete manner that it even adopts their tics, desires, compulsions. Envy is so difficult to discern from their victim that most never catch on to the swap.

We also know that envy is called such not because of the traits of people it targets but the trait it embodies. In the codex entry for Envy's Dogma we learn that envy takes Lord Seeker Lucius's form because of an offer so "impossible to resist" that it spends weeks studying and learning the Lord Seeker's face that once it finishes he is stowed away and hidden. Then when encountering the Herald at Val Royeaux it disdains the player character (pc) until they show up at Therinfal redoubt. Where then it is noted that seeing the pc rise in leadership, leading nobles whose "power chokes a country", and that the Inquisition is growing to be far larger than the templars. It is so full of envy at the thought of what the pc will become that it described it as "unbearable" it is "seething, consumed with want".

The Narrative Impact of Envy

So how does all that tie into the narrative implications? Well, it means that Sebastian would be at such a high position of power to even be attractive to envy. However, since we know Corypheus is the one who made the arrangement with envy to take the Lord Seeker's face, he could also do the same with Sebastion only in this case without Sebastian's compliance unlike the Lord Seeker.

This gives us two narrative options for how this replacement plays out. Either Sebastian is dead once envy is done, or Sebastian is imprisoned. To which we get narrative parallels with Cullen and his imprisonment, but also we have parallels to Anders' internal conflict of when Justice takes over. While it is different in the sense that Anders/Justice is a consensual arrangement, it doesn't negate the guilt or trauma that comes inherently from someone doing something in your name. With your face. But I'll go more into that late.

The other parallels we see is that both Sebastian and Anders would be radicalized by a spirit/demon. Anders in a bit more of Justice is amplifying Anders own want/need for justice. Where Sebastian, envy would just be taking the actions to the extreme, in the name and logic of Sebastian's faith and self-perceived duty to protect those from magic. Going so far as to use Sebastian's potential guilt in failing Elthina, of not reporting the abomination and blood mage Hawke kept as company, the internal conflict he has over such things because he was swayed by the other companions, and in doing so failed in his duty. All of that would be used as justification for whatever extreme actions it would take to meet its goal. A goal that would likely lead envy to covet/envy Hawke themselves.

Another aspect of all this is in the betrayal this would imply to Hawke. Both as a companion/friend/lover, the inherent betrayal that would come from whatever radically extreme action Envy!Sebastian took, likely with not a word to Hawke would be an echo of Anders. It would then double down on the realization, once it was discovered that envy wasn't Sebastian, that Hawke couldn't tell there was something off. There of course would come with a degree of limiting the player's agency as they did with Anders, but as da2 is written, the lesson from both of those brings the question of "Did I ever really know them?".

How Do I Think Envy!Sebastian Would Happen

To me it makes the most sense that it keeps with Corypheus planting envy. Sebastian wouldn't be complicit or anything, but he would potentially be an easy mark that would then be able to grant envy access to more powerful faces, such as Hawke.

From there I think envy would slowly build on things, trying to accrue more power, more land, more standing, till eventually maybe Envy!Sebastian capitalizes on Sebastian’s faith that he goes from being almost blindly pious to radically extreme in his religious fervor. Which I believe if it built up to him attempting to annex kirkwall during Exalted March dlc under the guise of cleansing and seeking out the corrupt, it makes sense regardless of what his standing with Hawke is or if Hawke allowed Anders to live. Because Kirkwall is so corrupt and has lost its way from the Chantry. This might be the tipping point that gets Hawke to realize something is wrong and try to talk Sebastian down/confront him, and this would be when they were betrayed because envy takes the chance to steal their face.

When the dust has settled, and if Sebastian was imprisoned and kept alive. When he finds out what envy did in his name, when he sees his friends, companions, and potential lover look at him with distrust and fear? The guilt of it all would be unbearable I think. The guilt of not being strong enough to fend of envy, of being weaponized against those he cares about. The trauma of running into people who were negatively affected by envy but only know his face to blame. Walking in a world with no knowledge of details attached to his name, where he could walk around the corner at any moment and face the consequences of actions that were not his but are his fault.

Because how could anyone expect pious Sebastian to be the target of a demon that wasn't rage or vengeance? How could anyone believe that he would become victim to a demon? Pious Sebastian with an anger streak. It makes me wonder if the motivations that would be weaponized when replaced by envy are what motivates him to keep a book about red lyrium in his bedside in Knights Errant.

[elvenforestwitch]

Dragon age 2 is really like "the mage-templar conflict is highly nuanced and there is no telling who is truly correct. Anyway this is where we store our mages. It's an island with a fortress called The Gallows and it's an old slave prison."

[vaguely-concerned]

I understand and agree with a lot of the frustrations about the shortcomings of Inquisition as a story. but sometimes when I hear people complain about the chosen one narrative in it I do want to just be like... you know it's a deconstruction of the concept more than anything, right. the inquisitor isn't actually chosen by anything except stumbling into the wrong (right?) room at the right (wrong?) time because they like, heard a noise or whatever. or if you think they are chosen, as many do in-universe, that's something you have to take on faith, the maker-or-whoever moves in mysterious ways indeed-style. the Inquisitor isn't actually a Destined Chosen One, they're a Just Some Guy in a fancy hat, self-delusions of grandeur to taste as you'd prefer.

a running thread that goes through all of the personal quests of the companions is the concept of a comforting lie vs. an uncomfortable truth, upholding old corrupt structures vs. disrupting them, and the role of faith in navigating that. (blackwall the warden vs. thom rainier the liar and murderer. hissrad vs. the iron bull, or is that the other way around? cassandra and the seekers -- do we tell the truth about what we find, even if it means dismantling the old order of the world? and so on.) and your inquisitor IS at the same time a comforting lie (a necessary one, in dark times? the game seems to ask) and an uncomfortable truth (we are the result of random fickle chance, no protective hand is held over the universe, it's on us to make a better world because the maker sure as hell won't lift a divine finger to help anyone, should he against all odds exist). faith wielded for political power... where's the point that it crosses the line into ugliness? is it before it even begins? what's the alternative? will anyone listen to the truth, if you tell it?

interesting how you also get a mix of companion agency in this -- you have characters like dorian who ALWAYS choose one side of the comforting lie vs. uncomfortable truth dichotomy. he will always make up his own mind to go back to tevinter and try to dismantle the corruption of the old system no matter what you say, or how you try to influence him. meanwhile iron bull is on the complete opposite side of the spectrum -- so psychologically trapped and mangled, caught in an impossible spiritual catch-22, that his sense of identity is left entirely to you and your mercy. you cannot change dorian in any way that matters; you can be his friend or not, support him or not, but he is whole no matter what. you are given incredible and potentially destructive-to-him power over bull's soul. it's really cool (and heartbreaking) to think about.

this is a game about how history will eat you even while you're still alive, and shape you into whatever image it pleases to serve it, and for all your incredible power right now you are powerless in the face of the gravitational force of time -- of more than time, of History. you won't recognize yourself in what History will make of you, because you belong to it now. you don't belong to yourself anymore and you never will again. the further you were from what it needs from you to begin with, the more you will find yourself distorted in its funhouse mirror. (why hello there inquisitor ameridan, same hat!)

and to me this is so much the core of what Dragon Age is about right from the Origins days -- how and by whom history gets written, the inherent unreliable narration of it all. I hope you like stories, Inquisitor. You are one now.

I do think it's probably still the weakest of the games narratively, and it's hampered by its structure and bloated systems. but I also find it disingenous to say that there's nothing deeper or actually interesting going on with it, thematically. if you're willing to engage with it there is Some Real Shit going on under the high fantasy-tinted surface.

[dragonagedreaming]

hey you know what you shouldn't do. you shouldn't think about how much cleaner i bet kirkwall got after hawke and co. left. about the reconstruction efforts that resulted in the clearing of empty buildings and replacement of arishok fences and the blowing out of the never dimming candles in anders's clinic and the boarding up of merril's house and the hawke family home becoming a tourist trap more than anything.

you shouldn't think about varric returning and going to the hanged man and finding his regular spot at the bar has been filled. that the counters aren't sticky anymore. that the bar itself is quieter now, less patrons, more "respectable" whatever that means.

you shouldn't think about varric walking the streets alone, in hawke's city that hawke can never return to, that becomes more of a job than anything else to varric as time goes on, just another paper to be filed. and hawke's broad shoulders are around every turn, and isabela's boots click against the ground behind varric on every street, and merril's laugh echoing along silent streets and varric not thinking about anders, not thinking about him at all.

you shouldn't think about varric alone in kirkwall ever. you shouldn't think about how his friends haunt every step he takes. you shouldn't think about how the hanged man isn't his home anymore. about how his home left on a boat almost two decades ago and never came back.

don't think about varric tethras alone.

[grapecaseschoices]

@/thedragonagelesbian

(da2 version) If somehow the bg3 plot happened in dragon age world and the mindflayers went there and the team was infected, but they didnt know shit about mindflayers except what the dream guardian tells them, who would NOT need a persuasion check to consume more tadpoles to get powers (the act 1 one at least) (aka who would be up to get those illithid powers)

(origin and awakening version)

[andiee-bedroom]

i cant even comprehend the psychic damage m!Hawke players first experienced hearing “ Ten years from now… A hundred years from now… Someone like me will love someone like you—and there will be no Templars to tear them apart.” from Anders

[squirrelwithatophat]

How the Chantry (and Orlais) Turned Kirkwall into a Police State

One aspect of the Dragon Age series that I’ve always found odd is the way in which rather crucial political and historical context surrounding major conflicts the player must decide tends to be relegated to codices, outside materials (e.g., books), and optional dialogue with minor characters... meaning that many if not most players don’t seem to end up actually seeing it.  Wicked Eyes and Wicked Hearts (Dragon Age Inquisition) in particular has become somewhat notorious for what it left out, but it’s far from unusual.

With regard to Dragon Age II, there’s a popular perception among fans that the troubles in Kirkwall can be attributed almost entirely to rogue behavior on the part of Knight-Commander Meredith and various evil blood mages.  This is understandable given the overall narrative framing and Bioware’s aforementioned problem of making key context very easy to miss.  But once we take a look at the full picture, it ought to be clear that the Chantry did not simply “fail” in their responsibilities towards the mages or towards the citizens of Kirkwall more broadly — they actively created and maintained the very nightmare they later professed to be dismayed about.

Moreover, despite the running Mages vs. Templars theme, the mages were hardly the only one's who suffered under Meredith's rule. Indeed, Kirkwall endured a brutal 16-year-long dictatorship (9:21-9:37 Dragon) that came into being courtesy of the Chantry and the Orlesian empire and only fell due to the mage rebellion.

Here I’ll describe in detail (with sources and citations) the story of how the Chantry turned Kirkwall into a police state and one that ultimately descended into what the writers themselves termed "genocide."  

The Templar Coup of 9:21 Dragon

Our story begins with the conflict between Viscount Perrin Threnhold of Kirkwall and Emperor Florian Valmont of Orlais.  

With the beginning of the Dragon Age (the era), the Orlais had experienced a major loss of territory and influence.  In 9:00-9:02 Dragon (the exact dates conflict), the Fereldan Rebellion led by Maric Theirin and Loghain Mac Tir overthrew Meghren, the last Orlesian King of Ferelden (personally appointed to the position by Emperor Florian himself), and reclaimed their country’s independence after nearly a century of Orlesian occupation.  These events are described in detail in The Stolen Throne. Emperor Florian, however, remained reluctant to recognize Ferelden’s sovereignty -- with peace between the two countries not being fully established until his death and the ascension of his niece Celene to the throne in 9:20 Dragon -- and may have been eager to reassert Orlesian influence in the region.  Perrin Threnhold, meanwhile, ascended to the position of viscount of Kirkwall (also formerly occupied by Orlais) in 9:14 Dragon.  At some point during this volatile period, Threnhold decided to raise money by charging what the Orlesians regarded as unreasonably high tolls for passage through the Waking Sea, which also controlled Orlais’s sea access to Ferelden and its capitol, Denerim.

For reference, here’s a map with my highlights:

The Orlesian Chantry, founded by Kordillus Drakon I (the first emperor of Orlais), had from the beginning been dominated by Orlesian interests.  According to World of Thedas vol. 1 (p. 56): “The Orlesian capital, Val Royeaux, is home to the Chantry’s Grand Cathedral, the center of the Andrastian religion’s power.  Over multiple Blights, the Orlesians have used the Chantry to expand their influence beyond the nation’s impressive borders, notably to the north into Tevinter territory and southeast through Ferelden.”  The Chantry, not surprisingly, had backed the Orlesian invasion and occupation of Ferelden, most recently under Divine Beatrix III (probably) and Grand Cleric Bronach of Denerim. It should be noted that this is all part of a pattern of highly-aggressive and imperialistic behavior that has persisted for centuries from the early years up to (potentially) the events of Dragon Age Inquisition.

It also cannot be emphasized enough that the Templars are the Chantry’s army and were created by the Chantry in the first place.  They do not simply hunt and guard mages; they fight the Chantry’s wars and carry out its policies.  Quote: “the Order of Templars was created as the martial arm of the Chantry” (Codex: Templars).  According to First Enchanter Halden of Starkhaven (8:80 Blessed), “While mages often resent the templars as symbols of the Chantry's control over magic, the people of Thedas see them as saviors and holy warriors, champions of all that is good, armed with piety enough to protect the world from the ravages of foul magic. In reality, the Chantry's militant arm looks first for skilled warriors with unshakable faith in the Maker, with a flawless moral center as a secondary concern. Templars must carry out their duty with an emotional distance, and the Order of Templars prefers soldiers with religious fervor and absolute loyalty over paragons of virtue who might question orders when it comes time to make difficult choices.  It is this sense of ruthless piety that most frightens mages when they draw the templars' attention: When the templars are sent to eliminate a possible blood mage, there is no reasoning with them, and if the templars are prepared, the mage's magic is all but useless. Driven by their faith, the templars are one of the most feared and respected forces in Thedas” (Codex: Templars).  Likewise, a Chantry official confirms that the Templars are both “the watchers of the mages and the martial arm of the Chantry” (Codex: Seekers of Truth).  In Dragon Age Origins, the (unwillingly) Templar-trained Alistair elaborates, “Essentially they’re trained to fight. The Chantry would tell you that the templars exist simply to defend, but don’t let them fool you. They’re an army... The Chantry keeps a close reign on its templars. We are given lyrium to help develop our magical talents, you see… which means we become addicted.  And since the Chantry controls the lyrium trade with the dwarves… well, I’m sure you can put two and two together...  The Chantry usually doesn’t let their templars get away, either.”

In response to Threnhold’s intolerable restrictions on the Orlesian navy’s movements in its traditional sphere of influence, Divine Beatrix III, an acknowledged “friend of the emperor” (and predecessor to Divine Justinia V of DAI), ordered the Kirkwall Templars under Knight-Commander Guylian to force open the Waking Sea.  Viscount Threnhold retaliated for this obviously-illegal military interference by ordering the Templars expelled from Kirkwall and later executing the knight-commander.  Then-Knight-Captain Meredith Stannard led the remaining Templars to storm the Keep and arrest Threnhold before appointing a weak viscount unwilling or unable to resist her control.

From Kirkwall: City of Chains by Brother Ferdinand Genitivi (Codex: History of Kirkwall: Chapter 4):

Taxes were crippling and Perrin Threnhold used the ancient chains extending from “the Twins” standing at Kirkwall's harbor—unused since the New Exalted Marches—to block sea traffic and charge exorbitant fees from Orlesian ships. The Empire threatened invasion following the closure of the Waking Sea passage, and for the first time, the Chantry used the templars to pressure the viscount. Until that point, the templars had done nothing to counter the Threnholds even though, as the largest armed force in Kirkwall, they could have. Knight-Commander Guylian's only written comment was in a letter to Divine Beatrix III: “It is not our place to interfere in political affairs. We are here to safeguard the city against magic, not against itself.”  The divine, as a friend to the emperor, clearly had other ideas.

In response, Viscount Perrin hired a mercenary army, forcing a showdown with the templars. They stormed the Gallows and hung Knight-Commander Guylian, igniting a series of battles that ended with Perrin's arrest and the last of his family's rule. The templars were hailed as heroes, and even though they wished to remain out of Kirkwall's affairs, it was now forced upon them.  Knight-Commander Meredith appointed Lord Marlowe Dumar as the new viscount in 9:21 Dragon and she has remained influential in the city's rule ever since.

Given that this was written by a Chantry scholar, the self-justificatory rhetoric surrounding the viscount and the Chantry-instigated coup ought not be surprising.  It appears, however, that in Kirkwall itself popular perceptions of Viscount Perrin Threnhold are in fact fairly polarized.

Whereas Brother Genitivi calls Perrin’s father Chivalry Threnhold “a vicious thug who took power through a campaign of intimidation” and Perrin Threnhold “even worse,” an unnamed servant writing 7 years after the coup paints a rather different picture (Codex: Viscount Marlowe Dumar):

What happened to Viscount Perrin Threnhold was a travesty. I served in the Keep, and my blood boils when I hear people call him a tyrant. He was a good man who tried his best to free Kirkwall from the control of those who use power for their own purposes. It's always been that way here, hasn't it? Long ago it was the Imperium. Then it was the Qunari, then the Orlesians, now the templars... when have we ever ruled ourselves? He tried to kick those templar bastards out and give us real freedom, and what did it get him?

Whether Threnhold was an evil tyrant or a nationalist hero (or both or something else entirely) is beside the point, however.  He was not overthrown for mistreating the citizens of Kirkwall; he was overthrown for opposing Orlais and the Templars (acting as an arm of Orlesian imperialism and in defiance of their official duties).  Seneschal Bran, himself no fan of either Threnhold or the Templars (and the only character to ever discuss the coup out loud), points this out in an easy-to-miss optional conversation in Act 3.

Hawke: What happens if they [the Templars] don’t like the [nobility’s] choice [of viscount]?

Seneschal Bran: Do you know how Viscount Dumar’s predecessor, Perrin Threnhold, left office?  He was a tyrant, certainly, but his rule was not ended until he actively sought to expel the templars.  “The good of all” is inexorably tied to what is good for the templars.

It’s unclear whether Knight-Captain Meredith was acting on her own initiative in toppling Threnhold or whether she received prior encouragement from the Chantry, but either way, what is certain is that the Chantry moved quickly to legitimize her actions and bolster the new order.  Moreover, the intent to seize power for the Chantry and its military forces rather than “liberate” Kirkwall from the depredations of a tyrannical viscount can be seen in the way they illegally imposed their own viscount (one kept submissive through threats of violence) rather than allowing the people to choose or at the very least following accepted selection procedures (i.e., allowing the nobility to vote on the next viscount). Indeed, this refusal to let the nobility select the viscount as per tradition is the basis of Orsino's protest at the beginning of Act 3.

In any event, Grand Cleric Elthina, as the highest-ranking representative of the Chantry in Kirkwall (appointed to her position by Divine Beatrix III herself around 20 years before Act 1) and thus exercising authority over its Templars, presided over the show trial at the end of which Threnhold was imprisoned and later murdered in his cell. Then she rewarded Meredith with a promotion.

According to the codex for Knight-Commander Meredith:

She is credited with removing the previous viscount, Perrin Threnhold, from his position after he attempted to have the templars expelled from the city in 9:21 Dragon.  The acting knight-commander was arrested and executed, and Meredith led a group of templars into the heart of the Keep to capture Threnhold. He was tried and imprisoned three days later by Grand Cleric Elthina and died from poisoning two years later. Meredith was subsequently elevated to her current position.

While merely implied here, Elthina is explicitly confirmed to have given Meredith the position of knight-commander in the first place in World of Thedas vol. 2 (p. 193):

Following Threnhold’s arrest, Grand Cleric Elthina appointed Meredith as the new knight-commander.  At Knight-Commander Meredith’s suggestion, a new viscount was chosen: a man named Marlowe Dumar.

Then in blatant violation of Kirkwall’s own laws and traditions -- again, dictating that the viscount be chosen by the nobility -- the Chantry had allowed newly-installed Knight-Commander Meredith to select the new viscount.  If approached in the Templar-occupied Viscount’s Keep and spoken to in Act 3, Seneschal Bran will explain:

Bran: When a line is judged unfit, or ends, we appoint from Kirkwall’s elite.  Or we would, if the situation was normal.  But it is not.

Hawke: Who nominates a new viscount?

Bran: A consensus of the nobility.  Normally.  And a willing nominee.

It seems to be the general consensus that Marlowe Dumar was chosen specifically because he was weak and willing to play the role of Templar/Chantry puppet (a subheading in Dumar’s WoT v2 entry even explicitly calls him “The Puppet”).  Meredith, after all, is not only responsible for his appointment but has been threatening him into compliance from the very beginning.

Again, Brother Genitivi writes quite bluntly: 

Knight-Commander Meredith appointed Lord Marlowe Dumar as the new viscount in 9:21 Dragon and she has remained influential in the city's rule ever since.

And quoting once more from the unnamed servant:

Now the Chantry has chosen Lord Marlowe Dumar as his replacement. After weeks and weeks of arguing, after telling the nobility that they would be choosing their viscount, after everyone saying it was time to use a new title—why not "king"? Why keep using the name imposed by the Orlesians? And after all that, the Chantry chose him. I suppose I can see why—everyone thinks he has the spine of a jellyfish, and it does seem that way.

Truly, he has the templars on one side, the nobility on the other, and everyone expects him to solve all their problems—yet he has no power to actually accomplish it. He keeps the peace as best he can, and I think he does a good job even if no one else does.

Likewise, to quote from Marlowe Dumar’s entry in World of Thedas vol. 2 (p. 184-185):

The new knight-commander, Meredith, appointed Marlowe to the seat, much to his surprise.  Just before he was crowned, he met in private with the knight-commander at the Gallows.  Marlowe was escorted, surrounded by grim templars, to Meredith’s well-appointed office, and there, she explained her reasons for the choice.  Kirkwall was filled with entitled degenerates... “With my help, you will turn this city around,” she said.  “We will be allies.”  Meredith’s message was clear: Remember who holds power in Kirkwall.  Remember what happened to Threnhold when he overreached.  To drive her point home, she presented Marlowe with a small carven ivory box at his coronation.  The box contained the Threnhold signet ring, misshapen, and crusted with blood. On the inside of the lid were written the words “His fate need not be yours.”  Marlowe ruled Kirkwall without incident for almost a decade, in no small part thanks to Meredith’s backing.  During his reign, the templars grew even more powerful, and the knight-commander’s influence was evident in almost every one of Marlowe’s decisions.

And from Meredith’s entry in WoT vol. 2 (p. 193):

Meredith presented Dumar with a carved ivory box at his crowning.  All present witnessed the viscount going white as a sheet as he opened it... It is not known what the box contained, but the reaction from Dumar made its importance to him obvious.  What is certain is that Dumar never openly or strongly defied the templars.  Over the course of his reign, Meredith’s grip on Kirkwall grew ever tighter, and Dumar’s failure to act absolutely contributed to the events that led to the mage rebellion.

According to Lord Bellamy, “a longtime political ally of Dumar’s” (p. 193):

“Dumar had a good heart.  A good heart and a weak will.  On his own he might have made a good leader, given time.  But he wasn’t on his own.  The knight-commander was always there, looking over his shoulder.  She let him know she was watching, that he wore the crown at her sufferance.  Meredith appointed him. This was a nobleman of only moderate wealth, with little influence.  She knew she could control him and there was little he or anyone else could do about it.”

Ultimately, the coup not only secured Chantry control over Kirkwall but furthered their (and the Orlesian Empire’s) geopolitical interests in the Free Marches as a whole. After all, the “Free Marches is [sic] best known as the breadbasket of Thedas. Its farms along the banks of the great Minanter river are the source of much of the continent’s food” (World of Thedas vol. 1, p. 65), and as with many a real-world “breadbasket,” its natural abundance and misfortune of lying between multiple empires had made it the target of one invasion and occupation after another. After the slave revolt of 25 Ancient toppled the Tevinter Imperium’s hold over the region (see Codex: History of Kirkwall: Chapter 2), the city-state of Kirkwall fell to Qunari invasion in 7:56 Storm, then invasion and occupation by the Orlesian Empire in 7:60 Storm, and finally gained its independence about 45 years later in 8:05 Blessed (see Codex: History of Kirkwall: Chapter 3). Prior to the Chantry-instigated coup, Kirkwall had enjoyed independence under a locally-chosen viscount for around 115 years, with Viscount Perrin Threnhold himself ruling for 7 years.

Other city-states of the Free Marches have likewise fallen under the Chantry’s sphere of influence (if not outright control):

Starkhaven is ruled by the Vael family. According to the codex for The Vaels, “They remain devout, dedicating at least one son or daughter per generation to become a cleric in the chantry.” The sole potential heir to the throne of Starkhaven is of course our DLC companion Sebastian Vael, “The Exiled Prince.” To quote from his first codex: “Sebastian Vael is the only surviving son of the ruling family of Starkhaven, which was murdered in a violent coup d'etat. Sebastian cannot forget the irony that he still lives only because his family was so ashamed of his drinking and womanizing that they committed him to the Kirkwall Chantry against his will… Since then, his belief in the Maker and His plan for Thedas have been unshakable. Embracing his new role, Sebastian took vows of poverty and chastity to become a sworn brother of the Chantry... until word of his family's deaths forced him to take up worldly concerns once again.” Elthina appears to have been playing mind games with Sebastian from the very beginning -- first she agrees to have him confined in her Chantry, then poses as a secret benefactor helping him escape from her clutches, with the revelation of her identity as said pretend benefactor leading him to embrace her authority and the life of a Chantry brother with genuine enthusiasm (see the Sebastian short story or his WoT v2 entry for details).  After his family’s murder, Elthina urges him to remain with her rather than reclaim the throne.  Yet when he gives up on seeking the throne and actually does attempt to return to the Chantry during “a crisis of faith,” he is “turned away by Grand Cleric Elthina, who believed he had not yet committed fully to either course” (see Codex: Sebastian - The Last Three Years), leaving him confused and even more under her thrall than ever.

Ostwick is dominated by the devout, staunchly pro-Chantry Trevelyan family. According to the codex for Trevelyan, the Free Marcher: “It is an old and distinguished family, in good standing among its peers, and with strong ties to the Chantry. Its youngest sons and daughters—those third- or fourth-born children with little chance of becoming heirs—often join the Chantry to become templars or clerics.”

Tantervale is certainly... special. According to WoT vol. 1 (p. 71): “Chantry rule is all but absolute in Tantervale, earning the city its dour reputation. The city guard is obsessed with enforcement. A street urchin would get a year in the dungeon for something that would get him a pat on the back in Orlais” (p. 71).

But let us return to Kirkwall, shall we?

"The Puppet”: The Reign of Viscount Marlowe Dumar (9:21-9:34 Dragon)

Viscount Marlow Dumar’s status as an impotent tool of the Chantry and its Templars appears to be common knowledge in Kirkwall.  Various characters, from city guards to lowlifes like Gamlen, casually refer to Meredith as if she is head of state and defer to her authority.

Immediately upon approaching the gates of the city in the first quest of the game, The Destruction of Lothering (Act 1), the following exchange occurs:

Guardsman Wright: So Knight-Commander Meredith wants us to sort you all out. Most of you are getting right back on your ships, though.

Hawke: That's a templar title. Why would a city guardsman answer to the templars?

Wright: We don't answer to her... but she's the power in Kirkwall. Don't know what would happen if the viscount went against something she wanted... But he's sure never taken that chance.

Likewise, if asked about “the word on the street,” Corff the bartender remarks as early as Act 1, “People say Meredith's the real power in Kirkwall, not the Viscount. Even Dumar answers to her.”

Ordinary citizens appear terrified of Meredith, and with good reason.  During the quest Enemies Among Us (Act 1, set in 9:31 Dragon), we get the following exchange with the sister of a Templar recruit:

Macha: I pleaded with him not to join the Order, but he wouldn't listen. You hear dark rumors about the templars and Knight-Commander Meredith. And now my brother is gone.

Hawke: (“Are templars so bad here?”) In Lothering, some templars died protecting villagers. I never heard any dark rumors.

Macha: And those are the stories my Keran adored. But it is not like that here, serah. There is a growing darkness in the order. They prowl the streets in packs. Hunting. And now, they say their duties put them above us, that they have the right to... take people from their homes. It is frightening.

Hawke: (“Tell me about Meredith”) What do people say about Knight-Commander Meredith?

Macha:  Oh, she has many admirers. They laud the service she does in keeping the mages in check.  But others say she is terribly fierce and utterly without pity. That she sees demons everywhere.  It is dangerous even to whisper such things.  People harboring escaped mages just disappear.  Templars interrogate and threaten passers-by.  My friend has a cousin who’s a mage, and she says he was made Tranquil against his will.  You hear more with each passing day.

Of course, Knight-Commander Meredith’s reign over the Gallows was notoriously brutal long before she came into contact with Red Lyrium.  Writing 3 years after the coup (but 7 years before Act 1), in 9:24 Dragon, Brother Genitivi remarks that "Kirkwall has been a tinderbox since becoming the center of templar power in eastern Thedas." As early as Act 1, mages in the Gallows can be heard crying out, “This place is a prison,” and “Knight-Commander Meredith would kill us all if she could.”  When asked if mages are imprisoned, the guardsman replies, “Used to be, back in the Imperial days. They kept slaves here until the rebellion. Now the templars run it and use it to lock up their mages. Guess not much has changed” (The Destruction of Lothering, Act 1).  Karl Thekla’s final letter before being turned Tranquil (with such illegal uses of the Rite having been repeatedly reported to Meredith) “said the knight-commander was turning the Circle into a prison. Mages are locked in their cells, refused appearances at court, made Tranquil for the slightest crimes” (Tranquility, Act 1).  If Hawke questions the truth of these accusations, Anders responds, “Ask any mage in Kirkwall. Over a dozen were made Tranquil just this year. The more people you ask, the worse the rumors become.” (Elthina also appears to be aware at least to some extent of the subsequent ambush, in which a Tranquil Karl was used as bait to ensnare his former lover).

According to the short story Paper & Steel (focusing on Samson): “Under Meredith, freedom was a cruel dream for Kirkwall’s Circle mages. They were often locked in their cells, watched night and day by templars who were told any step out of line was suspicious. All those young magelings, told that magic was a curse, that they were dangerous, and that they had to be shut indoors all their lives looking out through those windows. Some went mad. Others, mad or not, tried jumping.”  And from First Enchanter Orsino’s entry in World of Thedas, vol. 2 (p. 195): “Every time a mage died by their own hand, Orsino would hear Maud’s final words to him: 'This is no life.’ The templars didn’t seem to care about the suicides. Most had the courtesy to say nothing at all, but some would snigger when they thought no one was listening. 'One less to worry about.’ ‘The only good mage is a dead mage.’ Orsino’s anger at the templars grew...” (Note that this began long before Orsino became first enchanter in 9:28, three years before the start of the game). It's also worth noting Knight-Captain Cullen Rutherford quite explicitly attained his position as second-in-command of the Kirkwall Templars position because of his anti-mage extremism, later including violence against those perceived as mage sympathizers and their families.

To name more specific abuses, the Gallows features whipping posts (with dialogue confirming the reliance on whipping) and multiple other medieval torture devices, including a rack, a pillory, and iron maidens.  We also see numerous references to casual beatings, sexual assaults, forced Tranquility and facial branding, long-term confinement in dark cells, and permanent family separation (e.g., Emile du Launcet).  Escape attempts are typically punished with summary execution, according to multiple sources (e.g., Ser Thrask, Ser Karras, Grace). According to Ser Thrask, the most sympathetic Templar (besides Carver), kindness to mages would be a "badge of shame" among among his colleagues. For more, I recommend checking out the “DA2 mage rights reference post” by @bubonickitten​. Again, note that these are cruelties largely occurring prior to or during Act 1, long before Meredith started going insane due to Red Lyrium.

If Feynriel is forced into the Circle at the end of Wayward Son (Act 1), the ex-Templar Samson says, “I hear they got your boy Feynriel locked up in the Circle. Bad business, that. It ain't all templars that're bad. It's hard luck being born a robe, but most places, they make it work. That bitch Meredith runs the Order in this town like her private army. You don't toe the line, you end up on the next corner here in Darktown.  I don't think you got to hate mages to love the Order.  But Meredith don't agree.” Samson, it should be remembered, had been expelled from the Templar Order for passing love notes from the mage Maddox to his lover.  For the crime of “corrupting the moral integrity of a templar,” Meredith ordered Maddox turned Tranquil.  According to Cullen in Before the Dawn (DAI), “Knight-Commander Meredith wielded the brand for far lesser offences, believe me."

Ordinary citizens appear to be well aware of at least some of Meredith’s reign of terror in the Gallows, given that various NPCs (including some who do not personally know any inmates) will refer to it.  During Tranquility (Act 1), for example, a mob of Ferelden refugees threatens the party over fears that the latter intend to turn in “The Healer of Darktown” to the Templars. One exclaims, "We know what happens to mages in this town.  And it ain’t gonna happen to him." Moreover, the knowledge is sufficiently widespread as to have reached faraway countries.  A note dated 9:35 (set between Acts 2-3) from a mage of the Hossberg Circle in the Anderfels expresses utter horror: “I have heard that in the Kirkwall Gallows, mages are locked in their cells with barely room to stretch, let alone exercise.  I can promise you that any mage of the Anderfels would be stark raving mad after a week of such treatment... No wonder Kirkwall has such trouble with blood mages” (WoT v2, p. 173).  

And through all of this, Meredith has the support of the Chantry and more specifically Grand Cleric Elthina.

Not only did Elthina appoint Meredith to her position in the first place (WoT v2, p. 193), but if asked her opinion on Meredith in Act 1, Elthina snaps, “Gossip is a sin, child. Knight-Commander Meredith has an admirable devotion to her duties. It is not my role to form opinions on her character.”  An odd statement to make about a subordinate, since Meredith reports to her directly (as knight-commanders legally do to the nearest grand cleric).  The codex for Knight-Commander Meredith confirms at as of the end of Act 2, “she enjoys the grand cleric's full support and has free rein in Kirkwall as the commander of its most powerful military force.”  According to Elthina’s codex, many claim that Elthina “allows Knight-Commander Meredith more leeway with each passing year.”   According to World of Thedas vol. 2, which tries to put a more positive spin on Elthina’s role, her detractors “say her stubborn refusal to exercise her Chantry-given authority allowed the conflict between the templars and mages to escalate, finally resulting in the disastrous mage rebellion of 9:37 Dragon... Since Elthina was loath to exploit her authority as grand cleric, she refused to order either the mages or templars to stand down when tensions flared.  Many believe that she could have forced one side to retreat by showing her support for their position, but Elthina refused to take sides” (p. 196-197). This is at best an abdication of responsibility to dependents for someone intent on remaining in power.

Moreover, Elthina’s dominance over Kirkwall appears to depend in large part on at least appearing to manage Meredith and her troops.  According to her codex, “People frequently turn to her to mediate disputes—particularly those involving the powerful Templar Order, over whom she holds authority as the Chantry's ranking representative.” So Meredith as military leader rules both the Circle and the city-state through fear and violence, while Elthina maintains her power by playing Good Cop to Meredith's Bad Cop. Both then maintain a pretense of legality and legitimacy by fronting Viscount Dumar as the public face of the regime.

And this dual-power system works quite well for them -- at least until Meredith starts losing her mind under the influence of the Red Lyrium idol.

[A link will later be provided for Part 2 on Escalation and Direct Rule. If I ever do get to it 😭😭😭]

[sha-brytols]

acknowledging justice as inherently part of anders makes me mentally ill in the sense that this is justice when he has emotional mortal autonomy and the implications of that with romanced hawke are insane. in awakening he was incredibly conflicted with kristoff's love for aura being a part of who he now is and then being disgusted with himself because those aren't his feelings and that's not his wife and he hates how he can't separate those feelings not just because of the inherent violation of kristoff's memory but because he is now aware of what it means to love and be loved knowing full well that he will never feel that for himself as a Person.

and then that just naturally lends to the belief that this was probably a factor with karl too where anders might have been in this liminal space of being in love with someone he's known for years but also simultaneously aware that these feelings predate his current existence and are they Actually even real or are they just remnants of a man who no longer even exists. karl didn't even know anders was possessed like anders kept this from him. was he ashamed? did he think it's unfair to karl to be involved with him when he's not even the same man karl fell in love with?

but. then he meets hawke and it's the first time ever that he's felt love in a way that he KNOWS is entirely his and that is such an insane thought. to constantly question your own reality and then suddenly have something that is so uniquely yours that it validates your individuality in the way that he can say i love hawke and it's real and it's me and it's mine. i think with this in mind it suddenly puts how fast he fell for them in perspective because if you think about it this is straight up his first love. not just in the traditional sense but also in the sense that this is the first time his heart belongs to him. which i think also explains his desperation to be with hawke and the weird possessiveness he has in the sense that this isn't just a guy with an unrequited crush, this is also a spirit whose personhood is almost Dependent on the love that hawke makes him feel. what if i explode

[mainalias]

wait, da fandom opinion check. I had taken something for granted but now I'm not so sure.

the chantry and the circle use blood magic right??? the ritual to make phylacteries, where they take blood from an apprentice and do magic and seal it in a vial which can then be used to track them anywhere forever is absolutely blood magic right???

I had assumed it was never discussed in-universe as just standard chantry hypocrisy and not it's not blood magic even though it is magic that requires blood to work and controls people.

god how do I make a poll

[thefadecodex]

So what spirits do you think the Evanuris were? Like Elgar'nan would be Command, Mythal -> benevolence, Solas is wisdom -> pride, but what do you think the rest were?

I like to think June is Inspiration (made the eluvians), Sylaise would be Harmony, Dirthamen/Falon'din are the shattered remnants of Wisdom (<- i get this from this quote on Dumat: "in silence is the beating heart of wisdom). Dirthamen would be Knowledge -> secrecy/deceit(?) and Falon'din would be Learning corrupted into Hunger?

Sorry for the rambling- but I love this blog and Evanuris being former spirits just fascinates me!

Well met, wanderer of the Fade!

I have thought about this a lot, honestly, and I’m still coming to my final conclusions on the nature of the Evanuris. However, here are my current thoughts until I reach that section to dive deeper:

June – Innovation (The creation of the eluvians speaks to a mind driven by invention and transformative creativity.) When corrupted, it becomes Obsession.

Sylaise – Harmony (Her association with peace, fire, and the nurturing aspects of elven society suggest a spirit tied to balance and cohesion.) When corrupted it becomes Stagnation.

Ghilan'nain – Creation (Her association with shaping creatures, monsters and guiding them ties closely to the act of bringing something new into being.) When corrupted it becomes Hubris*.

In this context, I wouldn't use hubris and pride to be the same. Think of pride as believing you're the best in the room, while hubris is believing you're above the rules of the universe.

Andruil – Competition (Her obsession with the Hunt and her repeated challenges to other gods suggest a drive defined by rivalry and dominance.) When corrupted, it becomes Madness.

As for Falon'Din and Dirthamen, I’m still untangling their threads, but I’m leaning toward them being shattered fragments of Discovery.

Dirthamen might represent Knowledge, with a drive that, when twisted, becomes Secrecy—hoarding knowledge for himself rather than sharing it.

Falon'Din could align with Learning, corrupted into Hunger—an insatiable need to consume, understand, and claim everything in his reach, even the souls of the dead. Which also aligns with comments made by Solas in DAI about Falon'Din's desire for worship.

I love your interpretation of them as remnants of Wisdom, particularly with the connection to Dumat’s quote: "In silence is the beating heart of wisdom." It aligns beautifully with their themes.

It’s such a fascinating idea to explore the Evanuris as once being spirits themselves—shaped, changed, and eventually corrupted by their own desires and the weight of their power.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts! Discussions like these are what make exploring this lore so rewarding.

May your path through the Fade remain well-lit!

—The Fade Codex

[weshouldstabcaesar]

I think the thing in some fanfic, where Fenris reacts to healing magic with anger or rejection is incredibly baffling. Like, it makes no sense to me? If it was someone from southern Thedas who was scared of magic, then yes, that reaction makes perfect sense. In southern Thedas, fear of magic is, nine times out of ten, a fear of the unknown.

But Fenris is from Tevinter, it stands to reason that he probably knows a lot more about magic than the average person just from being around Danarius 24/7 (probably more than Fenris is comfortable with). He has no reason to reject healing magic because there is no way he doesn't know what it does, or hasn't had it used on him before (Danarius wouldn't want permanent damage to a valuable after all). He's also just very pragmatic, he doesn't have to like it but he'll do it without complaint, likely with gratitude for the healing. I mean, I know for a fact it's been pointed out before, but he has literal combat dialogue asking for healing.

Fenris isn't scared of magic because he doesn't understand it, he's scared of magic because he understands it. The knowledge sources the fear.

[vaguely-concerned]

I think there is no better illustration of the more intimate, internal angle veilguard chooses to approach its characters and themes with than the fact that like... listen in this game we get to follow so much pain back to its source, and we find it really does permeate everything in thedas today on a level that evokes a kind of cosmic horror. the bones of the earth itself are broken open and drenched in trauma; the world is mired in suffering down to the core and the marrow. as above, so below. as outside, so inside. on the big scale, and the small. all of creation is a throat gone to bloody shreds from screaming in agony, when you allow yourself to listen. (maybe that's why we usually don't, or can't, bring ourselves to listen.)

...and yet the thing that makes me personally so desperately gnaw-my-own-arm-off sad that it feels like I could die from it is that in a run where you save minrathous, lucanis never gets out from the ossuary in his mind. what's worse, no one even knows he's in there. he's still in there. and there is no rescue on the way, because he's locked down so deep inside himself this time that there's no way for anyone to even understand there's a need for it. would he be able to welcome one, if someone did realize it and tried to reach him? You know him -- you can open the door, but he won't walk through. He won't move. There's nowhere to go. the way he says 'it doesn't matter what I want' with such utter, leaden, final resignation in the wrecked treviso cutscene is going to haunt me forever. it makes perfect sense to me you can't romance him after that, I'm not sure he's ever really here completely in that version of events, at least within the timeline the game takes place. he's just standing in the shitty awful ossuary torture room all alone, and no one's coming to find him.

and what is that, next to the millennia of suffering screaming through all of history and creation? well. nothing, of course, not really. a single plucked string in an endless deafening symphony of despair. one singular trapped and broken soul among the untold millions that have gone before and the untold more that will surely come after, that are being made as we speak in the conflicts and tragedies unfolding through the game. but more importantly it's also everything. to me. and to the game too. the game says this also matters. just as much as anything else, this pain matters and deserves to be loved and comforted. even in the face of all the suffering in the world, beneath the systems perpetuating all the banalities of evil, for good or for ill sometimes, we matter to each other. and what would be the point of anything, if we didn't? that's where hope lives. as long as you're alive, the right key might still arrive to gently open the locks of your mind, the right hand might reach out one day and you will bring yourself to take it. you don't know what tomorrow's going to be. if in the meantime the only thing we have to gain in staying is each other -- isn't that enough? isn't that everything? why does this one guy saved mean the world saved to me, a little bit? hello. hello. hello. there's stuff going on in the deep here.

when I say that the deep thematic spine of this game is so good and solid that the occasional clumsiness and false tones of the writing on top of it simply cannot hurt me... I think this is part of what I mean. works for every single one of the characters of course! lucanis' is the predicament that speaks to me most viscerally. for. uh. personal reasons there simply is no time to get into at this juncture lol. but just as much the idea that davrin can die before he could see the world freed from the blight and the need for wardens, or that harding can get cut down right at the beginning of a great revelation that could change everything and heal things no one had even dreamed could be healed. all of them are like this. each and every one of us has a world and so many stories inside that matter, and it's not to dismiss the larger systemic forces and evils that create so much of the suffering in the world to focus in on that for one installment of the series -- only to view it from a different angle that brings other things to light than what we're looking for normally in this series. it's worth looking at what's actually here.

(have you ever heard the poem 'good light' by andrea gibson? it's very good. you should check it out if you haven't, you can find it on youtube. it has these lines:

Come make it count Our finding each other like we found God Come root for the salt Come believing we can heal it all, even everything Even everything that has ever been done I know how much the pain of this world weighs But I can still tip the scales in light's direction Whenever I have your name on my tongue

and yeah. I think that's basically what I'm trying to say here.)

[elspethdekarios]

I have thoughts about Anders

So I just finished Dragon Age: Awakening (I’ve played through all 3 main games, went back to do the DLC) and I have so many thoughts about how different Anders is pre- and post-Justice sharing his body. I think part of this is the voice actor change in DA2, but his personality seems so different, too. Awakening Anders is sarcastic, always cracking jokes, mostly light-hearted even after everything he’s been through. DA2 Anders has moments like this, but he’s much more intense and brooding. Awakening Anders has a few lines about wanting to settle down with a pretty girl or have a plump wife waiting for him at home, but DA2 Anders is PINING. And with the time skip, it’s a slow burn. Awakening Anders doesn’t strike me as the slow burn type—he’s very flirty and even a little raunchy at times. But Anders in DA2 doesn’t really act like that. He’s got a tortured, romantic soul. He’s much more serious. And maybe it’s just because he’s grown up a little bit, but now that I’ve met Justice as a character before he and Anders become one, I wonder how much of that change is Anders maturing vs. Justice’s personality coming through.

I know this game has been out forever and I’m probably not saying anything new, but Anders is so fascinating to me. More rambling and dialogue analysis under the cut:

The very first thing that struck me as different about Anders in Awakening (other than his general personality) was his response to Wynne telling the Warden Commander that the Libertarians in the Circle want to pull away from the Chantry, and Anders says that it’s a recipe for disaster. SIR! WHO ARE YOU?

Awakening Anders also doesn’t seem particularly interested in justice for mages or revenge for how he and other mages have been treated. He wants his freedom, and I’m sure he wants freedom for other mages too, but he’s not exactly radical like he is in DA2. In fact, it’s Justice who seems to inspire Anders to, well, seek justice. I’m emphasizing some of this dialogue to analyze it below:

Justice: I understand that you struggle against your oppression, mage. Anders: I avoid my oppression. That's not quite the same thing, is it? Justice: Why do you not strike a blow against your oppressors? Ensure they can do this to no one else? Anders: Because it sounds difficult? Justice: Apathy is a weakness. Anders: So is death. I'm just saying.

Justice: I believe you have a responsibility to your fellow mages. Anders: That bit of self-righteousness is directed at me? Justice: You have seen oppression and are now free. You must act to free those who remain oppressed. Anders: Or I could mind my business, in case the Chantry comes knocking. Justice: But this is not right. You have an obligation. Anders: Yes, well... welcome to the world, spirit.

Now, look at this conversation between Anders and Isabela in DA2:

Anders: I don't know how you live the way you do, blithely ignoring the consequences of your actions. Isabela: This is about the Qunari thing, isn't it? I'm not ignoring it. I just recognize that it happened years ago. Isabela: There's this fantastic thing called "moving on." You should try it sometime. Anders: Has it occurred to you that Kirkwall is only just recovering from the Qunari attack? Isabela: And you want me to... what? Flog myself daily? Isabela: Has it occurred to you that maybe there's no justice in the world? Other than that voice you keep in your head.

Isabela sounds more like Awakening Anders than Anders himself does in this conversation. Justice accuses Awakening Anders of ignoring the oppression of other mages like DA2 Anders accuses Isabela of ignoring the consequences of her actions (for the record, I don’t think either of these assumptions are 100% true, but I digress). In Awakening, Anders is cynical when Justice tells him he has an obligation. What can he change? He has to worry about his own survival as an apostate before risking his life even more to save others. Hence the line “welcome to the world, spirit.” Anders is pragmatic, even a little pessimistic, where Justice is idealistic.

But then, the conversation with Isabela! Like Justice tried to convince Anders of his obligation to other mages, Anders now is trying to convince Isabela to take responsibility for her actions. She’s ignoring the unrest that was caused by her stealing the Qunari tome instead of doing something to help—just like Awakening Anders is ignoring his oppressor. 

When Anders and Justice merge, Anders starts to see the bigger picture, the oppression that reaches far beyond himself. From the short story Anders:

I always knew I wouldn't submit. I could never be what they wanted from me -- compliant, obedient, guilty. But before Justice, I was alone. I never thought beyond my own escape: Where would I hide? How long before they found me? Now, even that thought repulses me. Why should so many others live with what I will not? Why must the Circle of Magi stand? Just because it always has, just because those who read Andraste's words twisted them to mean that mages must be prisoners? Why has there never been a revolution? … They will all die. Every templar, every holy sister who stands in the way of our freedom will die in agony and their deaths will be our fuel. We will have justice. We will have vengeance. And suddenly I'm alone, standing in a burning forest, with the bodies of templars and wardens at my feet. So many, and I didn't even know they were there. Didn't even know I had killed them, but the evidence is all around me. Not the aftermath of a battle as I've known it, but a bloody abattoir of rent limbs and torn and eaten flesh. This is not justice. This is not the spirit who was my friend, my self. What has he become? What have I become? We must get out of here. There is no place for me in the Grey Wardens now. Is there a place for me anywhere?

First of all, ow, my heart. But the point is: before he becomes part of Anders, Justice doesn’t feel a personal connection to mages’ freedom—he only cares because of the injustice. But once he and Anders become one, the source of injustice that Anders cares about the most, that he has deep resentment for, that has caused him great harm, becomes Justice’s cause. We know that Justice can sense/feel memories of the body he inhabits because he remembers some of Kristoff’s past, or at least feels connections to certain objects or people even if he can’t explain it. Kristoff was dead, though, so those memories were only fragments. I imagine that with Anders, he can experience those memories more clearly, including, of course, the injustice he and others have suffered at the hands of the templars. Justice is able to integrate into Anders fully, whereas with Kristoff, the body was an empty vessel with remnants of the past soul that was within it. 

Now, let’s talk about where Anders ends and Justice begins, something that even Anders himself is unsure of. Here are some DA2 banters about the division (or lack thereof) between the two of them:

(Outside The Hanged Man, Act 3) Anders: Justice doesn't let me get drunk anymore. I kind of miss it.

(in Legacy DLC) Anders: I've tried to forget about this side of myself. Justice is... so strong. Sometimes the Wardens seem insignificant. But seeing that poor bastard brings it all back. The Darkspawn taint. The call of the archdemon. It's inside me, as much a part of me as Justice.

Anders: Justice once asked me why I didn't do more for other mages. I told him it was too much work. Anders: But I couldn't go back after that. Couldn't stop thinking about it. Anders: Sometimes, I miss being that selfish.

Varric: So, the knight-commander... Boiling in oil? That one never gets old. Anders: This is past time for joking. Varric: I'm helping you indulge in elaborate revenge fantasies. I think it's good for you. Anders: Meredith will die. Do not doubt that. Varric: Go away, Justice. Can Anders come out and play? Anders: [Justice voice] Stop. Varric: You are no fun anymore.

(if Anders was taken to the Fade) Anders: I have tried to avoid the Fade since Justice. It's disturbing when he takes over.

The above dialogues imply that Anders and Justice are two separate entities in one body. The one from Legacy is tricky, since he compares it to the taint, but he still refers to Justice as separate from himself, which is why I included it. And that’s not even touching on the fact that Justice has a different voice than Anders. But these:

Aveline: So you're two people, Anders and... Justice? Anders: That's not strictly accurate. Aveline: But you are of two minds. Anders: Many people are.

Isabela: Hello? Is Anders there? Can I speak to Anders? Anders: You can stop yelling. It's always me. Isabela: Oh, good. I didn't want to talk to that other guy. You know, the stick-in-the-mud. Anders: He can still hear you. Justice and I are one. Anders: Anyway, you wanted to talk to me? Isabela: Not really. I just wanted to make sure it was you.

(If Hawke convinces Anders to give up his plan) Vengeance: Leave! This does not concern you! Hawke: This is Anders's decision, not yours! Vengeance: I am Anders! You have given into sloth. You would stand by while mages are abducted and tortured. Go. Anders has no need of you.

There’s not a clear answer either way. And I didn’t expect to find one. I think a lot of this back and forth is Anders trying to understand who he is now that Justice is part of him. He clearly still feels like he has some level of agency and individuality apart from Justice, but he struggles with it. This feels very anticlimactic, but I guess that’s just the nature of it all.

If you read this far, wow thanks. Now to not leave off on a sad note, here are some DA2 banters that feel very Awakening Anders to me - please enjoy <3

Anders: I keep thinking I know you from somewhere... Isabela: You're Fereldan, right? Ever spend time at the Pearl? Anders: That's it! Anders: You used to really like that girl with the griffon tattoos, right? What was her name? Isabela: The Lay Warden? Anders: That's right! I think you were there the night I— Isabela: Oh! Were you the runaway mage who could do that electricity thing? That was nice... Hawke: Please stop talking. Now. (Or if Varric is in the party) Varric: I don't think I need to know this about either of you.

Anders: So, I never expected to be palling around with the captain of the guard. Aveline: We're not "pals." Anders: We're not? What about that time we painted each other's toenails? Aveline: Do you want something? Anders: Love, life, and liberty. What more does a man need?

Anders: Nice day to be planning a trip into the Deep Roads, don't you think? Anders: The Blight, the dampness, the festering darkness filled with tainted rats... Carver: Shut up. Anders: You've got a real chip on your shoulder, you know? Carver: I've got a big blade on my shoulder, magey. Anders: Right. Wonder what you're compensating for.

Fenris: Is there something you want, Anders? Anders: You really don't have the temperament for a slave. Fenris: Is that a compliment or an insult? Anders: I'm just wondering how your master didn't kill you. Fenris: How have the templars not killed you? Anders: I'm charming.

Anders: Is that supposed to be Andraste's face on your crotch? Sebastian: What? Anders: That... belt buckle thing. Is that Andraste? Sebastian: My father had this armor commissioned when I took my vows as a brother. Anders: I'm just not sure I'd want the Maker seeing me shove His bride's head between my legs every morning.

(All dialogue found on the Dragon Age fandom wiki.)

[sorcerly]

Re: Spite not ‘acting like a demon’

It stands out a lot that Spite doesn’t really do much to endanger Lucanis or his loved ones or peers… At least not in the ways we’ve seen Rage, Pride, Etc Demons ACTIVELY endanger DA protagonists and their parties before.

But also, Justice became Vengeance in DA2, and I don’t recall them actively trying to hurt Anders OR Anders party… am I forgetting something? I mean Vengeance DEFINITELY fucks up some Templars, but it seems driven only by its nature and its desire for Justice, rather than just killing randomly.

So then Spite would only have a reason to do all the demon murder stuff if someone/thing got in the way of their purpose? Which is Determination?? Is this anything???

(Inspired by @logarithmicpanda ‘s commentary on this version of the demon lore post)