#DA fandom critical

[gxldencity]

"veilguard is right wing propaganda" meanwhile I've had to read takes from the "veilguard is a solas smear campaign" group about how lavellan is solas's perfect trad wife who's gonna birth the next generation of ancient elves with him to populate new elvhenan after they tear down the veil of course. This was before the breeding kink convo.

[postcardsfromheapside]

What I got from the tags of this whole debacle is that if we'd gotten Joplin like we were “supposed to,” Bioware could have somehow ended a multi-decade war in the middle east and modern day slavery.

[chanafehs]

"that fugly ass lavellan" I know theirs is the most basic white girl...

Dragon Age fans when you have an oc that's not white woman face number 1 2 or 3

[ajastu]

god okay. sorry for yet another text post. but i'm just still thinking about the argument that veilguard is bad because the only option re: morality of your player character that it gives is kindness.

Now, to preface. I understand where this criticism comes from. Veilguard IS a departure from the general scheme of the previous games, in several aspects. And i understand how people would be upset at not having quite the same kind of options/ways to influence the world. It took me some getting used to, also.

What i do disagree with, however, is using that to claim that the game is bad, irredeemable, and also meaningless n soft or whatever.

Because it's really not. It's just different, with a different narrative focus. I've played the previous games several times, and as i said before, origins is in first place for me. Veilguard is a very close second. And i'm not more right or wrong in this opinion than someone who thinks datv is the worst game in the series.

You can still make choices that will influence the world in wildly different ways, they're just not... ''genocide or no genocide'' kinds of choices. Which i can see how some people would not consider the difference significant enough to be interesting for them personally. Which is whatever, im not their dad, i dont really care.

However. I think it's kind of weird to say that ''the game made me resent being a nice person'' or that "kindness you dont have the choice not to offer isnt worth a lot"

Like, game criticism aside. That is just an objectively weird thing to say.

There are ways to phrase that particular dissatisfaction in a way that will not make most people side-eye you. This is not one of those ways.

The thing is, it was a deliberate choice in characterization. Since game development at AAA scale is. an incredibly complex beast, i suspect there were many different reasons for it, and not all of them purely narrative. It is also not 2009 anymore. We are not getting another Origins, like, probably ever.

But. Rook is established in the very second cutscene to care about other people. It makes sense narratively, too, with Varric being the one to recruit them. Their backstory also shows that they gravitate towards the 'moral' choices. It's not bad writing. It's deliberate.

That does not mean that everyone has to like it. And i don't think the people who are upset about the change in this gameplay aspect are stupid or wrong.

We are all different people with different preferences, and i really am sorry if the game ended up being a disappointment for you. I know how it feels, and it does suck.

But i also do think it might be worth to examine the way people choose to phrase this complaining. The claim that kindness is somehow diminished in value if you aren't offered the choice to be cruel alongside it. I just think that, like. misses the point of what kindness is?

I know what those people mean when they say it, i just...fundamentally disagree with the sentiment. And i think phrasing it in this way is incredibly weird. sorry 🤷‍♂️

There is a better way to talk about this particular complaint. I just never actually SEE that being done. and i do think a lot of it comes from not actually engaging with the source material people are trying to criticize. Like, the person i sort of quoted earlier explicitly said they have not finished the game. If you never give something a chance in the first place, if all the information you have is second-hand, then i do not find your criticism valuable in any way. There is no substance to it, no backing. You are not proving a point, you're just chasing your own tail at that point. There isnt even a bone to chew. You've only heard of the bone. you havent actually experienced it.

Another part is people being too twisted up in the emotion of disappointment to actually see that they're not making compelling arguments, necessarily, and that they're actually being a tar pit.

I know not everyone thinks as much about the push towards dismissing the value of kindness for kindness' sake as i do. But like. It really is very weird to see this insistence that game bad bcs it didnt have the option to do a murder to an innocent person, or something. While also dismissing the horrible things we Are shown as 'not in your face enough'.

And honestly, personally? I dont love origins or any of the other ones specifically for the ability to choose the evil options. It's never even been a choice for me, because you can very well play the games without having to make the bad choices. theres always a workaround. And that workaround doesnt even harm u in any significant way. there isnt an actual like. terrible complexity here. I enjoy the dwarf politics quest a lot but ultimately, knowing the outcome? its EASY to choose Bhelen. Unless you're playing a dwarf noble origin, i guess. Rip Harrowmont 🙏 you would have made a terrible king.

And again, my personal opinion is not more right or wrong than that of someone who adored the prev dragon age games exactly because they allow you to make some terrible terrible moral choices.

At the end of the day. why are people still so pissed about a game that came out almost 6 months ago that many of them havent even played in the first place? Relax. take a walk if you can. Maybe move a snail out of the road if you find one. There tends to be a lot of them after it rains. Think about the ones that didn't make it. Try to find compassion for lives so easily dismissed. Maybe that will make you think about whether or not kindness on its own really is so lacking in value.

[sha-lyuzar]

"You're just mad it's not like origins"

Yeah, how dare i be disappointed in a game series that has followed a certain tone and theme for three games, and has always been narratively complex, and about navigating hard decisions and moral dilemmas, structual injustices, deep characterisations, beauty and tragedy in tandem, rich worldstates and character arcs and thin lines between heros and villains... it's almost as if my disappointment stems from care and passion for dragon age, and not from an unwillingness to accept change, or a misplaced sense of nostalgia. It's almost as if people are allowed to criticise a thing and discuss its flaws, while also enjoying other aspects of it, and voicing their opinions on the world's most unprofitable social network to a handfull of followers and mutuals, isn't going to make any meaningful dent in the game's success

[mortalitasiquyen]

That AI art of emmrich smoking a bong makes me so mad for one very specific reason. I have seen SEVERAL requests for art within the DA fandom get fulfilled just by asking. Like people asking “Hey artists of tumblr, can someone render Lucanis in this exact pose?” Or “Hey can someone draw Illario wearing -this-?” And both times several artists step up to the plate and make that art for free, for fun, because that is what community is all about in fandom.

You have a world of artists willing to draw at your disposal (you don’t even have to commission them) and yet STILL you chose to disrespect artists and use a machine that steals art, hours of hard work.

Had you asked “hey can someone draw emmrich with a bong and a skull smoke cloud coming out”, I guarantee you would’ve gotten several works of art in return, from actual artists.

You don’t have to steal from them. You don’t have to use technology that steals from them. You can go straight to them and ask.

[invinciblerodent]

Ngl, some people's "I wasn't allowed to be an irredeemably evil shitbird, ergo Veilguard is not an RPG" argument is extra funny to me, because I don't actually think there is a conceivable narrative in which, if your Rook did something as objectively amoral as selling people into slavery, they wouldn't wake up the next morning floating untethered in the raw Fade with Neve's bootprint on their ass, and the Lighthouse no more than a distant blip on the edge of their vision.

Like there is a lot to get into here that I just don't have the time or the spoons to go through, but I'd argue that one of the biggest strengths of Veilguard's writing is that the main cast are all very well-defined characters with their own sets of morals, ethics, and goals, and they collectively have more than enough of a backbone that if Rook did something that proved them incapable of leading the team to the story's climax and/or proved them to be of no benefit to them, they wouldn't fail their quest: they would just swiftly and efficiently get rid of Rook.

[samsincerely]

There’s this one streamer who keeps talking about how veilguard has the “cringiest dialogue” and ngl it pisses me off. Idk who she is but she pops up on insta a lot for me and I just get so sick of this idea of pretentiously calling things cringe to discredit it but especially in this context for a few reasons.

I think a better word is perhaps awkward but this implies that it was written awkwardly but I think the writing is very intentional.

The only companions I would say sound awkward at times are Bellara, Taash, and Harding.

Emmrich always sounds composed and well spoken. Makes sense with his experience and confidence.

Davrin sounds a bit harsh at times but purposeful and passionate. He’s also very sure of himself and a man of action.

Neve also sounds thoughtful, intelligent, and sure of herself. She’s a questioner but analytical.

Lucanis is actually quieter but he’s intentional and most of his dialogue reflects his sharp focus on his hyper fixation job.

So why do the other three sometimes come off awkward? Well I think it’s very intentional in the characterization.

Harding is pretty unsure where she fits in with everything. She’s used to being a background character to Inky, Varric, and co but now she’s at the forefront of stopping the apocalypse and she’s got this new dwarf magic that shouldn’t even exist. And she’s a surface dwarf raised around humans. She doesn’t really come into her own until you resolve her personal quest where she really decides who she wants to be and how to honor what got her there.

Taash comes off brutish and rude in some cases. It’s clear that they’re so divided in their identity and insecure about themselves that they lash out at others. Taash says they want to join the team but the decision was made for them by their mother so they act out. Taash has been simultaneously babied and unsupported. Figuring themselves out also shows immense growth in how they interact with people.

And sweet Bellara. Girl lives in the woods and hyper fixates on ancient elven magic and works for at least a week at a time, alone. She doesn’t get much social interaction so while she’s not necessarily insecure she doesn’t second guess herself a lot in social situations because it’s not her expertise like magic and elven culture is. So yeah she should be awkward.

I just think the writing and voice acting of Veilguard shows so much love and respect for different kinds of people. It takes such a positive stance in such a scary time. I love it and haters should just say it’s not for them and move on instead of disparaging.

[sh00kspeared]

Genuine question for the DAI fandom — is there a decent community surrounding mlm solavellan? I just got into DAI and am using the equal opportunity mod to romance solas, but some of the things I’ve seen people online just made my heart sink— that they’re ‘so, so glad solas is straight’, the way that people pelt mlm solavellan shippers with downvotes and dislikes, the way I saw someone say that hetero people might feel ridiculed by Solas being bisexual. I’d love to find my people, and I’m just wondering if things are any different here on tumblr or if the fandom is in general agreement that bi solas = bad.

[postcardsfromheapside]

I think one of the things that drives me craziest is how the VG crit crowd paints everyone who has defended VG or written meta about it as having, at best, a victim complex (I actually saw that in a post someone sent me via screenshot). These are the same people who lost their minds about a breeding kink joke about Solas by his writer. Who whine about the female representation in the game, and then insultingly - and *inaccurately* - assign tropes to the female characters, in a written version of the bike-fall-meme. Victim complex whomst.

No one thinks VG is without flaws or that the devs didn't bring biases to the table. We got tired of having to caveat our enjoyment with that fact; we all understand that these things exist, and we enjoy the game despite them.

Y'all make yourselves miserable on purpose. You aren't doing anything to help change the course of games. You're just making tumblr, and other sites, more frustrating.

[blandsample]

ok.

so. once again i have seen something on twt that has... frustrated me.

now, this was in response to someone lamenting the loss of lesbian or gay characters in dragon age. but the inherent issue with this is that... BISEXUAL PEOPLE ARE ALWAYS QUEER. and this was specifically about the datv character being bi/pan... even though ALL of the characters mention past interest in people of the same and opposite gender.

like the datv characters are EXPLICITLY queer.

just the amount of people I see getting up in arms about bi (or as they prefer to call them "playersexual") characters for not being queer enough is... rather upsetting as a bi person in the da fandom because this directly mimics struggles ill face in other online and sometimes public spaces due to not being perceived as quuer enough to belong.

and the amount of people I see rallying behind this thought or defending it when bi/pan people get upset about it is... frustrating.

but all in all, the datv cast is all explicitly queer and i think people who headcanon them as different sexualitys are weird because they are all canonically bi/pan... like are bi/pan people not queer enough for you?

[hyperions-light]

I really do caution people to be careful and mindful when interacting with/promoting criticism aimed at DATV, specifically, because it’s become such a lightning rod for bigots and because I suspect that a lot of different hate groups/movements have been using fandom (and may be trying to use the DA fandom, specifically) to radicalize people.

Criticism is all well and good (even that which I don’t necessarily agree with), but I hope that people are being interrogative about the reasoning behind certain criticisms (especially concerning the non-white, queer, and neurodivergent characters), and diligent in checking what kind of rhetoric they’re promoting.

Fandom community is like a garden. And when people let bigots infiltrate fandom space, they’re letting the invasive, destructive plants and insects ruin the garden for everyone. Please be good gardeners and community members and keep those people out. They do not belong here, and they need to be shown that, unequivocally. Do not reblog them, like their stuff, or interact with them. Block them.

If you give bigots an inch, they will take a mile. Please make sure that you are being a team player by keeping them out of our spaces, so that everyone can feel safe and welcome.

[invinciblerodent]

I feel like I keep repeating myself, but honestly, if you've not liked any entry or piece of auxiliary media in a franchise in over ten years... maybe it's just time for you to move on from it...?

It's genuinely okay to simply stop engaging with something that you don't enjoy, and haven't been enjoying for years.

Having liked one game when you were 18 doesn't mean that now you're just stuck having to play ALL of its sequels.

[heliomanteia]

Dragon Age fandom will spend an abysmal amount of time dissecting every line someone like Solas and Co say with what appears to be obsessive interest, then turn around and ignore half of the explicitly presented context about half of DATV companions. Look, it's not poor writing when you're biased but can't admit to it.

Should I even be surprised that the companions/characters who are usually not given even the modicum of that obsessive care and extrapolation are women or is it obvious.

[sacredashes]

the way that elf fans so quickly dismissed the titans and dwarves and harding’s trauma when veilguard first came out is going to haunt me for a while i think.

the titans and ancient dwarves explicitly faced colonization, and i hate that this word is being avoided in these discussions. the evanuris goal was to take their resources (lyrium) as their own, to force them out of their religion (severing their connection to each other, a connection that was worshipped), and to make their land theirs. this history was then erased and hidden. we have known this since inquisition at least.

and maybe you hate that storyline, maybe you’ve been screaming about this since inquisition. but to deny that this is canon (especially as of veilguard) or to argue “well it was justified, and harding is just a bitch and should shut up about it, she never suffered like an elf,” it’s all getting a little too real for me. i’m sorry the dwarves are small and hairy and the elves are more your aesthetic but that doesn’t mean that you can just deny that the dwarves have suffered all throughout this franchise. their pain should be just as important to the narrative as anyone else’s.

[postcardsfromheapside]

I know this is really hard, but it's not Bioware's responsibility to give you an education on oppression. They're literally a game company telling a story. It's your responsibility to go educate yourself.

Getting mad because you didn't get the Solas dong ending you wanted, and blaming a game because you want to do your activism through tumblr fan service is fooling nobody.

Pretending you give a shit about oppression, and blaming trans and nb folks for getting a crumb of representation, so that you can interject about how pookie didn't get to finish his little Veil Go Boom project (I didn't miss that line, no I fucking did not), isn't cute.

Get offline and go do something.