#Cagots

[gwydpolls]

Time Travel Question 26: Ancient History XIII and Earlier

These Questions are the result of suggestions from the previous iteration.

This category may include suggestions made too late to fall into the correct grouping.

Please add new suggestions below if you have them for future consideration. All cultures and time periods welcome.

[maklodes]

Cagots feel like they’re from some planet on a trite 1963 1967 Star Trek episode about how stupid bigotry is or something. Like, no one can tell why so many people hated Cagots. They had no apparent physical, cultural, or religious differences from the surrounding population. There were theories about why they were despised, but they were mostly stupid. People were just like "FUCK those guys" for no discernable reason.

[abigail-nicole]

extremely correct tags op

every time i start thinking about the Cagots i go a little insane

[fromchaostocosmos]

Why Are Goyim Obsessed With Bad People Being The Fault of The Jews?

How many times have we seen the speculation that certain truly horrific historical people must Jewish based the stringing of threads. Or the that said horrific people are horrific because of the Jews.

How many times have seen Hitler was actually a Jew conspiracy or that Hitler only became the way he did because he denied entry to art school by Jews conspiracy?

Not just with historical figures we all have seen how often it gets mentioned that Roy Cohen, Jew, and they sure do make a point to highlight that Jew part was behind Donald Trump being who he is.

Think about Henry Kissinger and how much him Jewish gets highlighted when talking his influence on Presidents Ford and Nixon, even though he hated being Jewish.

And of course we can not forget the all time go to Christopher Columbus as the secret Jew.

And now that is being reported to be in fact true. Just look at how everyone is reporting it.

Only that is not the case.

The documentary Columbus DNA. His True Origin, broadcast on Spain’s National Holiday suggests that the explorer was not Genoese and Christian but Spanish and Jewish. The absolute protagonist of the documentary, forensic scientist José Antonio Lorente, has not yet published any scientific study to back his claims. The documentary is presented in the style of a reality show in which Lorente systematically discounts other theories, including that Columbus was Castilian, Portuguese, Galician, Mallorcan or a Cagot. It culminates with a scene in which only one possibility remains, the one put forward by architect Francesc Albardaner, author of the book La catalanitat de Colom (or, The Catalonian Origins of Columbus).

But geneticist Antonio Alonso, former chief of the National Institute of Toxicology and Forensic Sciences, is not convinced: “Unfortunately, from the scientific point of view, no assessment can be made after watching the documentary, since it does not provide any data on what has been analyzed. My conclusion is that the documentary Columbus DNA does not show the DNA of Columbus at any given moment and scientists do not know what analysis has been undertaken.”

Forensic anthropologist Miguel Botella, also from the University of Granada, remembers that day in 2003 when he waited for the box containing the supposed bones of Christopher Columbus to be opened. “Everyone expected to be greeted by an intact Columbus, but there were only 150 grams of bone fragments,” he says with a smile. The largest would have been about four centimeters in length.

Lorente then said that he was going to analyze the DNA of the three alleged members of the Columbus family with the help of prestigious geneticists, such as Ángel Carracedo from the University of Santiago de Compostela; and Mark Stoneking, from the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology, in Leipzig, Germany, one of the world’s most prestigious centers for the analysis of ancient DNA. Carracedo recalls that the DNA that reached him was tremendously degraded, and he too distanced himself from the project. Moreover, he refuses to comment on Lorente’s new results until there is a serious scientific study published in a specialized journal. The response of the Max Planck Institute geneticist to questions from EL PAÍS were similar: “I am sorry, my group stopped working on this in 2005 and I have not heard anything about the most recent results,” said Stoneking.

According to geneticist Antonio Alonso, “It is not the done thing for data that the scientific community has not yet endorsed to be presented to society, as it puts the data itself at risk as well as the proposed theory.” Alonso is also surprised by the absence of experts from the U.S. and Australia in the film whose contribution Lorente describes as essential. “Here there is too much protagonism from only one scientist. Neither the Granada team nor the collaborating ancient DNA laboratories in California and Adelaide, which are said to be of great importance in the success of the analyses, appear in the film,” he points out. Recently retired, Alonso is one of Spain’s leading experts in forensic genetics. He worked on the identification of the victims of Madrid’s 11-M terror attacks; on the investigation of dozens of reports of alleged baby thefts; on the recognition of Spanish Civil War victims and even on the attempts to find the remains of the writer Miguel de Cervantes. He claims that the documentary Columbus DNA does not speak to him as a scientist. “We do not know which DNA regions were analyzed, nor the technology used in the analysis, nor the results obtained, which makes it impossible to make a correct assessment of the findings,” he says.

Alonso explains that there are clusters of genetic variants called haplotypes or haplogroups that tend to be inherited together and may be characteristic of certain family lineages, but he adds that they often coincide with those of other groups in historically Jewish or non-Jewish populations. “In any case, having a genealogy, a haplogroup or a haplotype of Jewish or Sephardic ancestry does not call into question Columbus’ birthplace in Genoa as stated by historical sources, nor does it tell us anything about the religious beliefs professed by the generations of relatives close to Columbus,” he says.

Rodrigo Barquera is a Mexican expert in archeogenetics at the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology. Barquera has conducted DNA studies of human remains prior to the arrival of Europeans in America, such as those of children sacrificed by the Maya at Chichén-Itzá in Mexico. The researcher is very critical of the fact the data have been presented via a documentary, and without the backing of a serious scientific article reviewed by independent experts, especially given the enormous interest in the figure of Christopher Columbus and his origins. “Normally, the article is sent to a scientific journal,” he says. “The journal assigns an editor and at least three independent reviewers who rate the paper and decide if it is scientifically valid. If it is, it is published, and then the rest of the scientific community can say whether they agree or not. Putting it on a screen, removed from this process and with all the media focus on it, makes it difficult for the scientific community to say anything about it.”

Antonio Salas heads the Population Genetics in Biomedicine team at Santiago de Compostela’s Health Investigation Institute. “The documentary promised to focus on DNA analysis, as suggested by its title Columbus DNA: His True Origins,” he says. “However, the genetic information it offers is very limited. Only at the end is it mentioned that the only thing that was recovered from the presumed remains of Christopher Columbus was a partial profile of the Y chromosome. The problem is that the Y chromosome represents only a tiny fraction of our DNA and our ancestry.” “The documentary rushes to a conclusion that Christopher Columbus was a Sephardic Jew originally from the Spanish Levant. This hypothesis is, to say the least, surprising: there is no Y chromosome that can be uniquely defined as Sephardic-Jewish,” argues Salas. “Even if all of an individual’s DNA were recovered, it would still be impossible to reach definitive conclusions about his or her exact geographic origin.

So when science seems to much more aligned with Columbus not being why then is everyone reporting him as Jewish. And why do goyim keep blaming every evil deed, every action, every evil choice and every evil person on Jews?

[mitzi101]

We need conspiracy nostalgia posts

POV you and your buddy just found the entrance to hollow earth in your backyard and are sipping some halo 3 game fuel before going in

POV you just caught your friends parents take of their flesh suits

POV you and your buddy met some nice German guys in caves you found in the forest

POV you are bored in take you kid to work day and open the wrong door and there’s an world elite sex cult in the conference room on floor 2 room 203

POV you and your friends just met the guy who uploads the basement tapes periodically what a silly guy

POV you and your friend drank too much sou milk and are now dressing in skirts and engaging eachother sexually

POV you and your friend accidentally found the origin of the cagot in France and Italy

POV you and your buddies are all purifying river water to avoid pineal gland calcification and fluoride poisoning

POV you and your family get lost in the Denver international airport and find the entrance to agartha

[tlaquetzqui]

I have a theory: the Cagots, also called Agots, who were the untouchable caste of southwest France and the western Pyrenees in the Medieval and especially Early Modern Period, might be some whole group of families that were declared outlaws, either in the Germanic period, “nithings”, or even the Celtic one, “broken men” (and then Germans carried it over). Outlawry was untouchability and then some, in tribal Europe; not only were they forbidden to interact with those who were still inside the law, or their dwellings and goods, but they had the same legal status as a rat, you could kill them for literally any reason.

[ephemeral-winter]

every 14-18 months i'll think damn it's so crazy that we don't know what's going on with the basque language yet and i'll go check the wikipedia page to see if we've learned something and every time i'll end up down some socio-linguistic rabbit hole on the other side of the world. tonight i learned A Lot about minor judeo-persian languages and last time i learned about the cagots (europeans are capable of types of racism that americans can barely comprehend: the origin story) and the time before that i was learning about the ainu before i found myself on the wikipedia page for "human"

[adamsvanrhijn]

I don't know how to phrase the commentary I have in my head about the post about Cagots going around other than Are you people aware of caste systems. A society having a class of people who are complete outcasts for no consistent reason other than the fact that they are grouped together is not unique.

Also I think that the tendency on this site to group all of French people as white and prejudiced is like. Bad. Like if your take on French people is the same as that of French white nationalists except you think it's bad to be a French white nationalist and they don't then that is not good. There are millions of French people of color.

[aspiresse]

the way some of y'all talk about cagots and similar European groups is dangerously close to "This kind of racism is really weird because there was no cause, unlike regular racism which is a fact of life. These poor white people ):"

[sexhaver]

i regret having worded that post about the Cagots so vaguely because the point i was trying to make was "this group was ostracized and oppressed to a ridiculous degree even though nobody can even remember what the nominal* basis for that oppression was in the first place (which is the case with all forms of oppression to some extent, but it's so starkly visible in this specific instance that it blows my mind)"

but the point that people seem to have interpreted me as saying was "wow, these guys were oppressed by being limited to a specific social role, or caste! someone should invent a word for this kind of system :)" and smugly screenshat an excerpt from the same wikipedia article saying "this is a caste system", as if i'm too stupid to scroll down

*yes, i'm aware that no form of oppression "makes sense" or is logically justified by bigoted rhetoric, im not Blizzard's writing team. the thing is that with, like, japan's burakumin or india's entire caste system, you have a religion endorsing/explaining the mechanism by which that oppresion is justified - burakumin are "unclean" according to Shintoism, while lower castes in india deserve their lot in life because of bad karma. if there was ever an explicit religious justification for why the Cagots were limited to craft trades to begin with, it seems to be lost to time, which makes the economic reasons much more nakedly obvious

[gutta-percha]

i am a cagot btw 5/7th's atleast and we dont all have backwards feet or anything like that but i do have a third nipple and secret powers. so that much atleast is true. in general, anyway.

[umberto-ecchi]

time for my monthly Thinking about Cagots session... man.

[notaaronsroommate]

I have one better. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cagot The Cagot are a persecuted minority living in the west of France. They were severely socially excluded and discriminated against, excluded from religious life and victimized physically. They have no physical distinction, no cultural difference from their local norm, no supposed racial ancestors that people can link them to, they're not accused of being criminals in any way that is specific to them (i.e. antisemitism has specific crimes like theft, fraud, and the blood libel that is assigned to Jews. Cagots are just blamed for things generally). the only thing that makes someone a Cagot is being related to Cagots and what made the first Cagot a Cagot is nothing whatsoever. Store brand racism. No characteristics whatsoever.

I think the historical treatment of left handed people is objectively the funniest form of bigotry mankind has ever displayed

[ratwizz]

what’s your favorite extinct animal? :0

simply cagots.

[methodood]

cagots