#CATFA meta

[amarriageoftrueminds]

I ended up doing a long old rant on this other post, about the problems with the Steve/Bucky characterisation in CATFA, how it fails to make them mutual in their support / fails to properly show Steve's struggles and independence, before serum.

And I was thinking...

what would you have to do, if you wanted to write a CATFA or pre-war Stucky fic and wanted to fix all those problems?

So I figured I'd make a list!

Pardon me while I rip CATFA a new one...

.

Problem 1) Pre-serum Steve acts as if he's independent and self-reliant without Bucky... when the opposite is shown.

A) He doesn't have a job.

(He isn't shown working, doesn't mention working, or taking time off to do the things we see him doing etc. Bucky is framed as paying for things.)

If the fic is set during CATFA you could fix that by mentioning Steve does have a job but has been given time off to go enlist. Or has just been fired from his job. Basically anything to show that Steve has had a job, has been working. Perhaps even had multiple simultaneous jobs!

Probably cut out the part where Steve scoffs at working in a factory or collecting scrap metal (more likely he'd admire and/or understand why both of those are viable options; maybe they're jobs he has done in the past and is biased against now, for some experiential-related reason.)

Or, if he still does not want to work in a factory... well, at the time, with most men being overseas, factory work would've been women's work. So perhaps Steve was reluctant because it feels emasculating. Or maybe even dysphoric, to be relegated to otherwise female-only spaces, instead of welcomed into (then) male-only spaces like the Army? 🤔

(This would especially ring true if you were doing a trans!Steve story, or emphasising the disability aspect of his life. And it would cycle back when he gets stuck in the USO, doing women's work again.)

B) It would also be better characterisation if pre-serum Steve was actually already good at fighting, but just happened to be outclassed by heavier weight opponents, and/or handicapped by sudden disability flare ups mid-fight.

(In the tie-in comic, Bucky taught him how to box. Why not keep this? It really makes sense!)

The ability to fight and win should be a matter of Steve's spirit, not his physical body or his training. It shouldn't arrive with serum.

(To put it in His Dark Materials terms; Will Parry has a warrior's daemon, even when he's a 12 year old boy; he can win a contest against a grown man or even an armoured polar bear! Likewise, Steve Rogers is supposed to be the David who can win against a Goliath - yes, even when he's the little guy.)

I know it's easy to have Bucky swoop in to save Steve from a fight he's losing disastrously. But it would be more gripping (and make Bucky's value shine more), if Steve was actually winning the fight, despite being the underdog, and then something completely out of his control happened that tipped the tide against him, and then Bucky arrived to save him!

And also it would make more sense if Steve's health at the time of CATFA was in a lifetime high point, (possibly because of Bucky's long term support).

Then it would be less nonsensical to be trying to lie his way into the Army. There has to be some actual common sense logic behind his choice, so that he's not essentially snapping 'Bucky why won't you support me committing suicide, gdi??'

Steve shouldn't be getting his first real win by knocking down a flagpole; he should've been showing this capability in his pre-war / pre-Army time, too.

Possible Example:

You could emphasise the idea of Steve entering a fight he knows he's going to lose, in order to accomplish a secondary goal that the enemy doesn't recognise.

IE. Steve fighting the bully in the alleyway -- he loses the fight, but succeeds in stopping the bully from making a scene in the cinema, which was his original goal. So mention it!

(Steve could be like 'winning this fight wasn't the point.' And Bucky could be like 'ah, so what were you distracting him from?')

Perhaps Steve's secret goal in joining the war isn't to win the fight against Nazis, but to distract Nazis from Bucky?

.

Problem 2) The support is imbalanced; Bucky's doing all the emotional, financial, and physical labour in the relationship.

You could fix that by showing how pre-serum Steve was not only mutually financially supportive of Bucky (in the sense of having a job), but was also supporting Bucky emotionally and physically, just as much as Bucky supported him. He could be doing at least 2 of the 3!

Possible Examples:

Bucky going through an emotionally hard time that pre-serum Steve pulls him through (just as Bucky did with Steve's Ma).

Steve treating Bucky's wounds after a fight, just as Bucky treats his. (If Bucky's a boxer, like the tie-in comic, then Steve could be his cut man when he's in the ring!)

Steve paying for some of their expenses, or finding places to take Bucky that are free when it's his turn to plan a day out, etc.

.

Problem 3: Sarah & problem 2.

If this is CATFA / post-death setting, show flashbacks or make references to Steve visiting her in hospital, or doing the work of nursing her himself / sitting by her bedside if she died at home, paying for her medicine, etc.

So that it's not just another example of Bucky wholly carrying Steve; show the balance. Maybe Bucky was temporarily footing the bill so that Steve could afford to quit his job and do the nursing at home. Both putting the work in, in different ways.

(This would be a perfect example of one way Bucky's experience of looking after sick Steve would pay off, and make him able to teach Steve how to do it when the roles are reversed.)

Better yet, a show-don't-tell of Sarah instilling Steve's moral compass and tenacity; maybe even some Bucky POV to show her impact isn't just relegated to Steve.

Her absence could also be shown in present day with Steve, eg. packing up his things to go to basic and having to leave behind some keepsake of hers. In the comics Steve carried her photo. Perfect candidate to put in his compass!

.

Problem 4: The relationship is framed as transactional.

Less of 'I'll do X for Bucky now because he did Y for me back then'

and more of 'helping Bucky is the right thing to do because he's innocent, so I'm going to do it regardless of outside whining, and he would still do the same thing for me, or anyone else, because he's a good person too.'

There has to be more to it than just convenience, needing each other around to help; there has to be an actual desire to be together for pure enjoyment, too.

IMO you'd need at least one scene where Steve and Bucky aren't benefiting in some way from spending energy on eachother. They're just... happy being together.

And perhaps Bucky isn't the only friend pre-serum Steve could have had, just the one Steve most wanted to stick with. (His options should amount to more than 'Bucky or no one.')

Perhaps Steve's health absences and strong principles drove other friendship prospects away? Perhaps Steve even lost other disabled friends to their poor health, poverty, etc?

.

Problem 5: A's problems are framed as B's.

No more 'Steve getting attacked' being framed as a problem for Bucky.

No more 'Bucky being drafted to die' framed as a problem for Steve.

Better characterisation would show these bad things affect the victim first and foremost, and only/also the other one, secondarily.

Steve shouldn't be seeing Bucky's shipping-out uniform (skipping right over thank yous and congratulations) and talking about how that's sad for... himself.

Steve shouldn't be sabotaging Bucky's last night of freedom in NYC to spend it on... his own goals.

Sidenote: Bucky wanting to spend his last night of freedom with strangers is such idiotic writing anyway, when he has both Steve and a living family with whom he could be spending those last precious moments! And dragging Steve on a double blind date he clearly doesn't want to go on is counter-productive. It undermines the mutually-supportive / mutually communicative relationship Steve and Bucky should logically have, as lifelong inseparable best friends (viz. a Bucky who's known Steve this long should be able to tell he's not into it.) And it shifts the blame for Steve's singlehood off of him and onto Bucky, and women generally.

Steve shouldn't be detailing why he's so keen to fight, and focusing on random men he doesn't know, not directly/unequivocally mentioning Bucky at all.

(Indirectly, he wants to be like the men laying down their lives -- so... like Bucky? But this is still nonsense. He should want to be there to support Bucky, not to copy!)

It's likewise nonsense for Bucky, who has known Steve since he was a child, to ask Steve why he's keen to fight.

Bucky doesn't need to ask. Bucky already knows!

Lazy clumsy exposition.

And the narrative should be showing us why Steve wants to fight Nazis, rather than having Steve infodump some vague reason without anything to back it up.

Speaking of which...

.

Problem 6: Lack of explicit politics.

Like in the comics, Steve's reasons for fighting Nazis should be explicitly left wing and political, as well as passionately personal.

(Wanting to be like able-bodied men who get girlfriends is complete cringe incel bullshit as a motivation and not true to the comics, or CEvans's performance!)

Proper Steve characterisation should have him behaving in a way that shows he's a man ahead of his time in terms of Antifa politics, and that's why he wants to fight.

IE. happily sharing housing and schooling with people of other races, ethnicities, and religions. (Especially so when he has been in the same SEC as them / been in multiple different schools and lived in various neighbourhoods as a poor kid. Would also establish why both Steve and Bucky are fine having Gabe and Jim on their team!)

Not judging and mistreating disabled people the way he is.

Not judging unmarried mothers, belittling working women, expecting his mother to do all the housework, etc.

Not freaking out about the existence of queer people in public (even in an AU where he isn't one) defending gay men from attack as he does in the comics,

protesting and/or sabotaging public Nazi meetings in NYC, fighting with homegrown Nazi bullies especially,

ditto corrupt business owners / mafia union-runners as he does in the comics, etc.

(Sidenote: as a congenitally disabled person, Steve is also a target of Nazi rhetoric himself. So he would be personally concerned with fighting Fascism, and perhaps this was his philosophical springboard to recognising and combating all the other bullshit in its thinking, even when it's entrenched in American society.)

Basically, the Hydra saboteur should not be the first Nazi Steve ever got his hands on!

And Bucky should be an addendum when it comes to his reasoning. The heart of Steve's motive, where politics are the guts.

.

Problem 7: No disability rep.

A) Steve should not be saying that he, a disabled man, shouldn't have the 'right' to do less than able-bodied men, even though it is literally physically impossible...

...UNLESS, this internalized ableism is addressed in-story, rather than treated as if it's normal and even noble.

Other characters can be ableist; Steve should not (not only is he disabled himself, but he's supposed to know better!) ....unless it's part of an arc that shows him learning the error of his ways.

And that's a slippery slope when you consider that Project Rebirth, started by Nazis, really is a Eugenics project.

Instead of this suicidal ideation, it could be shown that Steve's health has recently become good enough for him to survive and succeed in the Army. And/or that Steve is passionate about fighting fascism, personally, because he belongs to a class of people whom Nazis believe shouldn't be allowed to exist.

Without Steve arguing that he should throw his disabled life away, just because able-bodied men are taking a significantly lesser risk of dying than him.

B) There should be actual details of Steve's disabilities, what they are and how they affect him. (Him - not Bucky.) In a way that has concrete negative consequences, beyond just not getting into the Army.

Possible Examples:

Kid!Steve being held back a year at school because of missing days due to sickness. (Kids can be cruel and parents can be ignorant; he might've been bullied and ostracised for being sick and believed contagious. And that's before the consider the amount of isolation necessary for recovery periods.)

Kid!Steve having to move around a lot (which would also affect which school he'd have to attend; always the new boy!) because losing money to medicine affects what his mother can afford, affects her work schedule when she has to look after him. Living in a worse place would then exacerbate his pre-existing symptoms, and so on.

Adult!Steve losing a job because of sick days, losing savings to pay for medicine, getting sick again because he chose heating and groceries over medicine, or vice versa, etc.

(This / the moving-around might be mitigated if he and Bucky are living together, meaning Bucky could make up the shortfall.)

Steve could lose friendships, job opportunities, or romantic partners due to sickness repeatedly taking him out of social circulation. He might also have disabled friends who lost the fight / weren't as lucky as him.

You could also play into the Nazi eugenics then endemic to the USA and have medical professionals telling Steve he shouldn't be alive; 'well-meaning' people offering to pray for him, saying they'd have just 'given up' if they were born like him, etc. (Or even saying these things to his mother!)

And Steve should, maybe, mention once or twice that he feels better after serum, and truly couldn't be doing what he's doing in Europe, if superserum hadn't also cured all his ailments?

If he's much more peppy afterwards, it should be because for the first time in his life he can actually breathe and spring out of bed!

.

Problem 8) The Incelery.

Pre-serum Steve should not be framed as undateable because he's short and disabled.

If Steve hasn't had a girlfriend, it should be because he didn't want one, not because he's incapable; not because evil women are repulsed by invisible health issues or Bucky is too dreamy for a disabled man to possibly compete with, be so fr. 🙄

You could fix this by making Steve: gay,

ace,

demi,

coincidentally surrounded by lesbians,

by women who have horrible unattractive politics,

too sick or busy with work to date,

getting attention but it's the wrong kind (ie. women who want to fetishize or nanny him),

and/or being very attractive to women even before serum but oblivious and/or simply not interested. 😂

/more than one of the above.

.

[pigtailedgirl]

I’d like to talk about this article.

https://mashable.com/article/avengers-endgame-romance

God, I’ve become a rant blog about Steve and Endgame. Oh well, least I know it. 

But NO... a very important thing that gets glossed over when you try to justify Steve’s ending and characterization in Endgame, and how the MCU is selling Steggy, is that this idea

Endgame does a good job of reminding the audience that losing a chance at happiness with Peggy is Steve’s greatest regret in his life

of the romance or lack of with Steve and Peggy Carter are the greatest parts of their character and its’ conclusive take that

And an opportunity perhaps, to be satisfied with their lives.

AKA the deus ex writing to reunite them or give them this ending chance of getting together sums their lives’ satisfaction.

This is or should be absolutely anathema to anyone who looks at them as characters first. At two characters, not a ship, who were expressly not about romance equaling their character definition. It is not good writing or a good conclusion to either to then force the narrative that this was the important point to their stories.

To Steve, the character who faced ablism, loss of parents, loss of friends, war, loss of time and country and identity, who was the moral conviction and heart of surviving and overcoming and inspiring...you really think his summation of greatest regret or thing to overcome is he lost a chance of romance? That his story is defined and measured in the success of getting it with Peggy?

To Peggy, the woman who is defined as a loved character, special female character or romantic lead, no less than by Steve himself per canon as a woman above and beloved for her desire and striving to make meaningful choices and actions in her life outside the boundary of a man’s desired partner, in that she is seeking equal representation, value, and recognition of... you think her summation is she’d be satisfied to be driven solely by her romantic outcome lived potential? That a summary of her life’s contribution is boiled down to only satisfactory if she reunited or got a second chance with Steve?

Is this a parody article?!

Or I don’t get shippers. 

Because ships should have character foundations to support them, unless they crack or AU. And the problem I have with Steggy per Endgame’s example is it’s built on a shaky foundation. 

The premise that them being together justifies the character dissolving, the time and the logic and moral implications... Ship gotta answer to that. Story gotta answer to it.

And it’s not a bias. I’m equal here in that I would make the same arguments if for wild example Endgame had a conclusion where Steve murdered Thanos or went back to be with a 40s Bucky or there was an example of the ship and character being concluded that the narrative told me was supposed to make sense or be defining and supportive of, that was just as the opposite of what seemed to matter before.

That’s honestly what Steggy Endgame is to me. So, this article and shipper perspective like it, the people who say the narrative built to this...I’m baffled. Because beyond Endgame retcon saying it, NO, the narrative for Steve Rogers and Peggy Carter was not a 22 film summation about if they would end up together.  

Like maybe if you squint CATFA was selling let’s explore if maybe they could have. In just that movie. As a side plot. The rest was like a story of too bad, it sad, so anyways here’s how we did and who we were and are.

[a-hyperfixating-fanatic]

#I cannot overstate how much I admire bucky#for being miserably scared and doing it anyway#love me a non-toxic-masc character

(via @amarriageoftrueminds)

“You ready to follow Captain America into the jaws of death?” “Hell no. That little guy from Brooklyn who was too dumb not to run away from a fight… I’m following him.”

Bucky Barnes picspam, requested by pdfoot (x)

[soliloquent-stark]

man out of time

marvel text posts 3/?

[amarriageoftrueminds]

thing I've realised which alters how I see the howling commandos:

if the actors' ages reflect the characters’ ages, then all of the Howlies are considerably older than Steve.

The youngest Howlie (after Bucky & Steve) would be eight years older than Steve (that's Monty). The oldest is eighteen years older.

So they're a bunch of guys in their 30s and 40s who voluntarily put themselves under the command of a clueless 25 year old whippersnapper who's never even been in the field before. 

Or, another way to put it: 

Bucky was asked to pick a team to put under Steve's command and he chose a bunch of much older, seasoned soldiers, because clearly a bunch of kids in their twenties couldn't be trusted to cope with this idiot.

[cptn-merica]

please tell me other people have noticed that steve's leather jacket has significantly more rips than it did after talking to the red skull

the timeline of steve's jacket:

^ right before the rescue, slightly worn but fully intact jacket. he probably bought it while on the uso tour.

^ mid mission, the damage is beginning. his right shoulder is ripping through the seam. probably just from exertion and a slightly too small jacket or cutting the corners too close. keep in mind this is after he jumped out the plane and ran through the woods, right before he fought to get into the hydra base.

^ talking to the red skull. same status, same rip that could be widening

^ like 4 seconds before jumping to meet bucky. same status

--- time cut ---

^ the march into base camp. he has a slash across his chest where a leather strap was, even through the fucking metal zipper. his right shoulder is battered and the left is pretty exposed too. you can see through to his costume.

i wonder if his jacket got caught on the medal railing on the jump between the balconies of the exploding hydra building. i imagine that he probably was hanging from the jacket, stuck on the metal railing while trying to climb up and over.

seriously tho I wonder what happened, because bucky's shirt isn't any more torn after his jump. i guess we can blame it on steve being steve. anyways, i hope other people noticed this.

(imgs source)

[amarriageoftrueminds]

taken out of tags cuz it got too long 😅

I've got a meta knocking about somewhere which goes into the tension that there was between the Irish and the Jews in NYC around this time; big enough to make it into the pop culture, even!

Steve being Irish and going to bat for the Antifa side, while Ireland is neutral and Irish-Americans are actively talking pro-Nazi shit about the war... If you wanted to go with real historical context that would demonstrate scoliosis Steve's Serious Backbone, that he's got no problem going against his own people in the name of doing what's right.

Also you KNOW as soon as modern conservatives heard Steve's takes they'd be like 'omg the woke mob got to Captain Murica and brainwashed him into a Communist with pronouns this is so evil!!' 😭

And Steve would have to lecture them all about 'actually son they didn't invent any of these values I always had.'

just *CATFA support of Steve's decency: 

Raised by single mother = drinks his seeing-women-as-equals juice 

(on the road with 40+ chorus girls for 4 months + 0 problems + takes it amiss when someone uses that term as an insult?? = this man is definitely pro-sex worker).

Formerly multiply disabled / refused to lie about it to get into the army = disability rights activism praxis, probably pro free universal healthcare. 

Lives below poverty line + uses trashcan lid and repurposed taxi door? = Pro Recycling.* 

Refuses to work in a factory and goes into overdrive to save other men from being trapped in a Nazi factory where they’re going to be worked to death = Labour Rights Activist/aware of the urgent dangers when snooty upper class WASPs around him aren't. 

Wears a woman’s helmet to go and fight Nazis = Clearly Pro Crossdressing /Genderfluid expression, possible Trans Ally??

No problem with Erskine who is an immigrant / happy to let him practise medicine on him personally = pro Immigrants. 

Called both a gay slur and a gay slang term (doesn't recoil in horror/is besties with Bucky Barnes so yes he's an Ally. 👀) 

Chooses to lead a diverse/de-segregated team (including a Japanese man when they were being interned at home) when explicitly given the choice to take his white CO's picks instead, no problem believing Fury is in charge when he wakes up in the future = BLM. 

Poor + Rocky relationship with Merchant of Death = #Eattherich

Literally introduced breaking the law at great personal risk and we’re told it ain’t even his first rodeo (also seen worrying about MPs after seeing a poster warning of the consequences of breaking the law) = ACAB. 

Takes trunk full of books to a war camp, barges into US Colonel’s Command Tent demanding information, knows about newspaper stories and films on himself but seems embarrassed = Pro-Freedom of the Press and Information but Ugh he is so sick of people throwing roses at his feet when he walks by?? 🙏#superhumble. 

Treats official US Army orders as Mild Suggestions when other soldiers’ lives are on the line, doesn’t want to kill anybody he just doesn’t like bullies = Anti-US Military Industrial Complex (see: both other Cap movies.)

blows off a Senator wanting to give him a medal for valour at the White House to focus on hunting Nazis in Europe instead = Antifa, he’s just here to fuck up Nazis + Authorities Generally.

*sadly he does need to work on his littering habits after he dumped all those Nazi nukes and the Tesseract in the ocean at the end. 😔

steve rogers: pr disaster | gen | 4k

(someone asked about the full version of this, so here u go)

“Wait,” says Sam, “you had a publicist?”

“For my first five months at S.H.I.E.L.D,” says Steve. “Then she quit. Uh, decisively.”

“Well yeah, she had to keep you in line,” Bucky says with a half-smirk. “How many times did you make that poor lady want to sock you in the face?”

“Lost count,” Steve admits. “I did offer to let her, once. Seemed fair.”

Sam laughs. “I feel like you’re sitting on a story here.”

“There’s no story,” Steve tells him. Sam raises his eyebrows. Bucky’s half-smirk tilts towards a full smirk. “Seriously,” Steve repeats, “no story.”

Interlude: The Story of Steve “Walking PR Nightmare” Rogers, and How For a Short While He Single-Handedly Destroyed the Emotional Health of Eva Laura Ortiz, His Now Ex-Publicist

Keep reading

[sarahowritesostucky]

Why Didn't Steve Just Jump Out?

You guys! I've figured out why Steve had to crash the Valkyrie and couldn't just jump out of it:

It had an autopilot function that Red skull turned on during the nose dive, remember? Steve didn't see him do this--he didn't know that button was there. He just knew that every time he tried to aim the plane down and then let go of the controls, it self-righted again. So he had to stay at the controls for the crash, if he wanted it to go down.

The end.

😭😭😭😭

[gay-jewish-bucky]

Steve not actually being a Captain is a popular headcanon in the fandom, and I get it, it's funny.

I just want to point out that—ignoring all other evidence that he was promoted to the rank of a Commanding Officer; such as leading an elite combat unit, or sitting at the head of the table in the war room and being heavily deferred to for military strategy, etc.—if you take a look at his dress uniform in Captain America: The First Avenger, he wears the official insignia of Captain.

They don't just give that insignia to people symbolically. It's a role that always comes with duties and responsibilities, ones that are far different from that of lower ranking men, including Seargents like Bucky. These are duties and responsibilities we see actually Steve carry out in the film.

[autumnrory]

i rmr when all the initial meta around endgame was coming out people were talking about steve being depressed and whatnot and it's like well yeah but he's BEEN depressed, like he woke up alone in this century and he kept going, now i can understand it being worse this time after finding a family and getting bucky back and losing them all except of course that's not why endgame steve was on about so like......the people writing meta were trying to connect these things that of course weren't really there on screen because that simply wasn't our steve

but i think it really could've been SO interesting to see this is the thing that finally makes steve stay down like he's lost so much and he just CAN'T keep fighting like i get some people think that's what they were going for but considering the ending......it's really not. and so i'm just thinking about a version after iw, maybe he gets some of the thor treatment except not turning his depression into a dumb fatphobic joke lol and maybe nat and others are trying to get through to him and it just doesn't work and then we get some flashbacks (which you could have done for all the original avengers actually which would be particularly important for bruce and nat and clint who did not have their own trilogies) including his mom telling him "you always stand up" and THAT being the thing to finally get him moving like it would've been such a perfect way to finally show sarah rogers some respect and ACTUALLY show steve really struggling instead of whatever they tried to do with him in that movie

[amarriageoftrueminds]

Had to jump in since I’ve done a couple metas on this subject before 👉(here) & (here)👈 

to point out something which it took me a while to notice, that emphasises what a nasty piece of work Zola really is:

We presuppose that Red Skull knew about and ordered Zola to do these serum experiments, but if you actually look closely at the movie again...

There is zero sign Red Skull knew anything at all about Zola’s experiments, or ordered them, and in fact a few things which suggest he very much wouldn’t approve.

Examples:

it’s explicitly stated that Red Skull wanted serum for himself alone (classic MCU villain behaviour) to become a ‘superior man’ so that he could seize the power of the Tesseract -- which he promptly did.

IIRC there’s no mention of Red Skull wanting serum to make a superior army, in the way Phillips says the US Army does.

Zola and Red Skull have been discussing Erskine at some point very recently, because Zola walks in and says ‘I understand you’ve found him?’ (without needing to specify who he’s talking about.)

Zola can immediately pick Erskine out from a series of surveillance photos of random men on the street, despite it being taken from a distance, and while Erskine is wearing a hat (I’d say baldness is his distinguishing feature, wouldn’t you?) Both Erskine and Zola were, until recently, Hydra scientists... To me, these things together suggest that Zola was part of the serum team when Erskine was there.

Zola hears that Red Skull has been looking into Erskine’s work post-Hydra... and then comes in acting all cagey about it, wanting to know more but trying to act like he’s not bothered, and despite Red Skull being a scary mofo he tries to dissuade Red Skull from looking into it any more. ( 'You disapprove’ /  ‘I just don’t see why you need concern yourself. I can’t imagine he will succeed... again.’)

Red Skull says he wants the serum destroyed, has ordered Erskine killed and his lab destroyed, and yet somebody high up in Hydra has told the spy Clemson to retrieve a vial of the serum in the process of blowing up the SSR lab. Why?

When Zola hears that Red Skull has already given the order for Erskine to be killed and the serum destroyed, he looks dismayed and tries to leave in a hurry...

In the 3-4 months after this moment with Red Skull, Zola is given control of a tesseract-weapons factory and, despite Red Skull specifically telling him he wanted the serum destroyed, starts doing serum experiments on American soldiers.

(Think how quickly he’d have to set up that factory and then get all the components for serum before he could start doing this; he must have been on this from the second he and Red Skull had that conversation... if not before?)

Zola is very clearly in charge alone at the Krausberg weapons factory, because there’s a scene where Red Skull takes an inspection and is given updates about their productivity (which wouldn’t be necessary if he was based there himself; we know he isn’t, because his main base is elsewhere in the Alps). IE. Zola has a secret place he can do things without Red Skull knowing.

Red Skull orders Zola to work the POWs harder, and Zola looks dismayed (then mentions he doesn’t think they have the... strength).

Red Skull orders Zola to work the POWs to death and then replace them

if Red Skull had ordered Zola to do experiments on them, why would he be treating these valuable subjects as if they’re expendable? 

why would he lace the factory they’re all housed in with explosives? (which Zola clearly doesn’t know about) 

why would he be so blase about blowing them up? 

(Red Skull doesn’t treat the POWs as if they’re important; ergo, shows no signs of knowing about Zola’s experiments at all.)

On two occasions (including in the factory) Red Skull meets Steve and is very visibly pissed off to face another supersoldier. He asks Steve what’s so special about him, that Erskine gave him ‘everything.’ Like other characters who greedily seize serum power for themselves, Red Skull is an egomaniac. He very clearly has it in his head that he (like Steve) is a special, unique, Great Man, great enough to harness the power of the Tesseract, and it should be he alone who gets to outdo ‘mere mortals.’

This outraged interrogation is not the behaviour of a man who: 

a) happily ordered for other supersoldiers to be created, or 

b) already knew what kind of person serum works on (Bucky). 

If Red Skull had known about Bucky, he’s the kind of guy to taunt Steve about Zola experimenting on his best friend; or about Steve not being special after all, since Bucky has serum too. But there is never any indication at all that Red Skull even notices Bucky, or knows anything about him or Zola’s serum.

tl;dr: IMO, all these human experiments with serum are entirely Zola’s baby, done  secretly / without Red Skull’s orders, and/or Zola doesn’t want Red Skull finding out about them.

So it’s very plausible that Zola had his own side plot going to recapture Bucky. Maybe even intended to be caught by the SSR all along...? 🤔

Time for some more rambling. I’m not sure if this is something that’s already been touched on in the fandom, but I was rewatching the The First Avenger recently and I’m pretty sure the train was set up by Hydra to be a trap for Bucky… 

Let’s start by looking at the scene where Steve rescues Bucky from the Hydra munitions factory. When Schmidt sees that Captain America has infiltrated the facility, he sets the building to destruct. Zola sees what Schmidt is doing and he freaks the hell out.

Now, Zola is normally a groveling worm when it comes to Schmidt. He knows better than to stand up to him; but there’s something that tips him over the edge here–if just for a second.  

We already know there are a handful of other munitions factories across Europe (which is part of the reason Schmidt can be so casual about blowing up this one). Wanting to save the weapons might be part of Zola’s reaction here, but that really isn’t reason enough for him to risk Schmidt’s anger (which can be deadly). At this point in time, there’s nothing in the factory they can’t afford to lose. 

Except for Bucky. 

Sergeant Barnes is the first one to show signs he might survive his stint in the isolation ward. He’s the first one to show signs that he might be responding to Zola’s attempts to create his own super soldier. That research is only located in one place, and Schmidt is about to send Zola’s breakthrough up in flames. The moment Zola realizes he can’t stop Schmidt, he makes a break for the lab to try to rescue his notes. Of course there’s no way he can carry Bucky out of there, so he has to make do with what he can get.  

In a painful twist of fate, Steve does Zola a favor by saving Bucky. 

Take a look at this standoff on the scaffold. Here the audience is meant to focus on Steve and Schmidt going head-to-head for the first time; but pay attention to Bucky and Zola. This is their standoff, too. Follow their line of sight. They’re not looking at Steve and/or Schmidt through most of this scene. They’re looking at each other, and you can almost see the realization on Zola’s face that his experiment might just be saved. 

Don’t you dare look at Bucky like that, you asshole. 

Also, can I just point out the look on Bucky’s face when he spots Zola?

If looks could kill. 

Not to mention his face when he sees what Schmidt looks like under the mask. Sure, Bucky’s line asking Steve if he has “one of those” is meant to be a joke for the audience; but I think Bucky’s experience as a character is a lot different from our experience outside the fourth wall. He’s genuinely scared–for Steve, for himself. You can see the trace of tears in his eyes. 

Bucky knows something awful has been done to him at the hands of Hydra, and he doesn’t know if he’s going to lose his humanity, too. 

Jump ahead and Captain America and the Howling Commandos are now laying waste to anything and everything Hydra. Things are looking bad for our villains.

This is an interesting line, because the movie doesn’t exactly tell us what Zola’s mission is. Maybe we’re supposed to think his mission is to make sure the weapons are finished in time to meet Schmidt’s timeline for world domination. Or maybe it’s to kill Captain America. And maybe those things are part of his job, but as Zola himself says, “I merely develop the weapons. I cannot fire them.” His primary job is research and development, not tactical planning and defense. 

Now that Hydra is up against a super soldier, it’s likely that Schmidt is anxious to get his own super soldiers into combat. The easiest and fastest way to complete that research, of course, is to retrieve Sergeant Barnes. (In theory, Zola could use Steve for experimentation if he caught him; but he would have to start the experiment from scratch. Peggy made it clear earlier in the film that it would take them years to find out the formula using Steve’s blood. Chances are good the same would apply to Zola. The work on Bucky is already underway, it’s Zola’s own handy work, and Bucky’s still weak enough to be an easy catch compared to Steve.)

I don’t think it’s a coincidence that, directly after Schmidt gives Zola the ultimatum to “finish his mission,” we cut to the Howling Commandos laying in wait for the train. They’re hoping to catch Zola, whose location has somehow been leaked, and it quickly becomes clear that the scummy doctor hasn’t been caught by surprise. In fact, everything indicates that Zola was the one laying in wait for them. He’s surveilling the entire train from a command center and issuing orders to strategically placed Hydra soldiers.

When Steve and Bucky board the car, Zola deliberately separates them.

Divide and conquer is a tried and true tactic, but look at the difference in the opponents sent after them. Steve is given a huge opponent armed to the back teeth with a Tesseract energy gun. But Bucky? Bucky faces off against one traditionally-armed guard. (EDIT: In a subsequent viewing I noticed he actually faces off against two guards, but the second one is barely seen and is removed from the equation fairly quickly.)

Why wasn’t that guard given an energy weapon too? My guess would be because Zola didn’t want his guinea pig harmed too badly. Bullet wounds can heal, but disintegration is forever. 

It might also be telling that when Steve and Bucky are back in the same compartment together, Zola screams “kill him” not “kill them.” It’s up for debate who Zola meant for the guard to target; but since he was initially sent after Steve, it’s my assumption that’s who Zola meant for him to shoot.    

As we all know, the plan goes horribly awry on both sides and Bucky falls to his seeming death. Zola is captured and, when Colonel Philips tells him that “the last guy you cost us was Captain Roger’s closest friend,” Zola barely acknowledges it with a creeptacular grin. 

He knows. He knows whatever he did to Bucky would keep him alive. And, as it turns out, even as a captive Zola will gain the means to finish his little experiment. 

Fucker. 

[amarriageoftrueminds]

If The Howlies were real...

I've been thinking about Steve's time during the war, and wondering if anyone has any headcanons about, eg. where he was stationed, how exactly the Howling Commando mission planning went, etc?

In the comics, Steve isn't assigned to the 107 but to the 1st Battalion, 26th Infantry Regiment, 1st Infantry Division (aka the ‘Big Red One’.)

They were part of D-Day landings, on Omaha Beach.

In deleted scenes / clips from the Smithsonian, it’s implied that Steve was also a part of D-Day: 

(That’s General Eisenhower, the Supreme Commander.)

(These landing craft 👆 were only used at D-Day. Although it’s possible this is propaganda footage of a rehearsal.)

If the Howlies had the same set up as the 26th, then Steve and the guys would’ve been stationed in Swanage, Dorset:

(Members of ‘A’ Company 26th Infantry Regiment US Army, billeted at Craigside in the High Street opposite Purbeck House Hotel, Swanage, around 1943 – 44.)

That’s 114 miles south west of Camp Griffiss in Bushy Park, Teddington, where General Eisenhower had his SHAEF HQ, starting from January 1944

(before that his HQ was at No.20 Grosvenor Square, Mayfair, in London -- aka ‘Little America’ or ‘Eisenhower Platz’ -- a couple of miles northwest of Churchill’s War Rooms, which inspired the underground bunker HQ seen in CATFA.)

Thousands of American troops, including the 26th Infantry, started arriving in Dorset in November 1943 -- which is also when Steve arrived in England after rescuing the 107!

While in Dorset, the US troops were largely engaged in rehearsing for Operation Overlord, aka D-Day. 

One such rehearsal was the disastrous Operation Smash, on the 18th April, 1944, which was a live-ammunition practice for beach landings at Normandy. (Disastrous because six men accidentally drowned when their Valentine semi-submersible tank... sank.)

Operation Smash was staged in Studland Bay (that’s 4.5 miles north of Swanage). Present to observe were: Winston Churchill, King George VI, Dwight D. Eisenhower, Field Marshal Bernard Montgomery, and Acting Admiral Louis Mountbatten. They did so from ‘Fort Henry,’ a 90 foot long bunker (built and named by Canadian engineers in 1943 -- so it would’ve been there by the time Steve n’ Co got there -- and it’s still there today!) overlooking the bay. 

The US troops moved on from Swanage in late April 1944, and departed England entirely (from nearby places like Weymouth, Poole Quay, Portland Harbour, etc.) on 5th June 1944. D-Day was on the 6th.

In the deleted scene from Avengers, Steve is clearly shown crossing  the Ludendorff Bridge:

...But this is impossible!

Because that bridge (at Remagen) was only captured on the 7th of March 1945:

(9th Armored Division in Remagen, Germany, recorded 9th March, 1945).

...and Steve had already crashed the Valkyrie 6 days prior!

(So unless that bridge was captured earlier, possibly because of Steve n’ Co., that footage can’t be right! 

CATFA does have a habit of putting the US Army in places they had no business being yet at that time of the war -- i.e. showing the US Army right up at the North of Italy, when in reality the Nazis still held it. 

(In fact, Mussolini’s Nazi puppet republic, the Republic of Salò, was nicknamed after a lake in Brescia... which is 200-ish miles further south than the US Army are shown in November ‘43.)

So I guess it’s possible that Steve & Co really were in Remagen, Germany, and crossing the Ludendorff Bridge before March ‘45! 

Or (perhaps more likely) we’re supposed to read it as some generic bridge in Western Europe, captured on D-Day (a la Pegasus bridge). 

.

Where exactly the Hydra factories were (and thus most Howlie missions) is not categorically stated. However, what Steve says / taking rough guesses from the map we see in Krausberg...

...it looks like the Howlies would’ve had missions in: Italy, France, (then) Czechoslovakia, Poland, and... Greece. 

(The script also mentions Belgium and Russia, which are neither shown on the map nor mentioned. However, there is a shot of them creeping through snowy forests, which looks very much like the Ardennes. That might put them in Belgium as part of the Battle of the Bulge -- which in turn gives us a date that could be the ‘difficult winter’ mentioned in the Smithsonian footage.)

If the Howlies were an active team from say 14th November 1943 -- 1st March 1945 (when Steve went down in the Valkyrie) 

That’s 473 days / or 1 year, 3 months, 15 days / or 15 months, 15 days.

If they had 9 missions total during that time...

6 Hydra factories around Europe

+ 1 winter mission to save over a 1000 men (as mentioned in Smithsonian; could be Battle of the Bulge? 🤔)

+ 1 D-Day mission (possibly including amphibious landings &/or bridge captures)

+ 1 Zola-capture mission, probably somewhere in the Alps. 

+ 1 Valkyrie mission makes 10. 

...That would give them 52.5 days (less than two months) to both plan, travel in and out, and execute each mission. That seems like a pretty tight turnaround, especially if each factory was different enough to warrant a new/fresh plan. 

(One difficulty never mentioned because their raids are relegated to a montage: the fact that Hydra factories appear to be staffed by slave labour. Means the Howlies can’t just bust in guns blazing! Or, at least, I don’t think Steve would stand for it. They’d have to free the workers first, and hopefully they’d be workers both physically capable and willing to join in the fight.)

In the film, they are never shown being back in the UK between these missions,  right up until the last Valkyrie mission in 1945, and dialogue seems to suggest there hasn’t been any personal contact between them and the HQ staff in between. 

(It does seem a bit nuts to be shipping them out and back every time, rather than just keeping them on the continent. Also nuts to be planning their most important Valkyrie mission only the day before. But anyway...) 

In order to take part in D-Day, they had to have been back to England at least once, to receive those highly classified orders and to rehearse (can’t be discussing details of D-Day over radio!) 

Also, they couldn’t have been allowed to go haring off attacking Hydra bases any old where, because it might have been inconvenient for D-Day (ie. if the Nazis increased defenses in certain places just because Captain America had been sighted there recently.)

TPTB could have used the Howlies as a diversion, sending them on dummy missions designed to make the Nazis think D-Day is going to happen somewhere else. I think Greece and Italy would be a great way to convince the Nazis that an invasion will be coming from the south, not the north! They could even have used doubles of the Howlies to throw the Nazis off the scent, as part of the Ghost Army (they did this IRL with Bernard Montgomery!) 

Maybe the SSR would be advised to keep the Howlies’ real missions as far away from Normandy as possible, earlier on, and then the reverse right before D-Day? (ie. damage Hydra’s factories that are nearest to Normandy, close to D-Day, so that they can’t supply weapons and don’t have enough time to rebuild).

Other possibilities: 

If they were not stationed in the UK between missions, and weren’t with the US Army of occupation (because it hadn’t invaded that part of Europe yet) Steve & Co. might have been living undercover in Nazi-occupied territory in the run up to missions against local Hydra bases (in, eg. France and Poland. Chance for Frenchy to get his Maquis on!) Very dangerous, very nerve-wracking, very Inglourious Basterds of them. Also potentially very dangerous for the locals, too, since there would surely be reprisals against them after any successful anti-Hydra attack by Howlies. 

IRL There was a concentration camp called Terezin in Czechoslovakia, near-ish where that one Hydra base is shown. (It’s the one that the Nazis famously filmed a propaganda movie in, after cleaning it up and deporting a bunch of people to Auschwitz to seemingly reduce overcrowded living conditions, to fool the visiting Red Cross.) So Steve and the Howlies might have gone off-mission to go and liberate that; could be that was a source of slave labour for the nearby Hydra factory.  (From a character POV, Terezin was known for having a big artistic culture among the inmates, and surely Steve would feel empathy for those used in propaganda, having been made to do that himself.)

Logically speaking, I would’ve expected that last Hydra base to be in Holland or Denmark -- not Greece -- to complete the ring of bases formed around Germany. 🤔 Maybe even more likely to be Denmark, since the Tesseract (which kicked off the whole Hydra supremacy thing) was discovered in Tønsberg, SE Norway.

[lordzannis-blog]

See hoard of good spy “i didn’t know whoopsy”girl Peggy in stucky fics or worse romanticize the shooting scene in a very it’s just a prank bro*

S̷̟̣͎̃́̈́̇̿Ȕ̷̧̠̎́̀R̸͈̂͒͊̌͜Ẽ̶̮̜̗̃͛͝L̴̦̒͑Ẏ̵̳͐̽̍

[amarriageoftrueminds]

Can't stop thinking about the idea of CATFA as a propagandised version of the Captain America story which exists in-universe and Steve seeing it and being absolutely livid about how 90% of it represents him.

.

Examples: being furious that it doesn’t mention his mother (his moral compass) anywhere, or his socialist politics pre-war, implies he only wants to fight to be like one of the guys and get a girlfriend?! (barely mentions Nazis),

implies he simply cannot have had any romantic attachments before serum, yet skims right over his disabilities as if his only problem was just being short, posits that Bucky would’ve spent his last night in Brooklyn off on a double date with two total strangers rather than with his own friends and family, (no mention of the Barneses anywhere?), 

has Steve scoffing at the idea of working in a factory (when he’d consider himself lucky to get a job in the times he grew up in), almost his whole relationship with the Howlies relegated to a single silent montage, none of the details of their missions shown except one, not a single girl in his USO tour gets a mention or name, ditto none of the women of the SSR/Army/that the Howlies met in the field, and wastes most of the screen time on that creepy violent nepotism-hire who was convinced Steve had given her some kind of secret signal he wanted to date her (at the time he just thought she’d taken the hint and was trying to beard him??), 

also puts her, Stark and Phillips in places they never went (why would a scientist, an old CO and an intelligence analyst be in Italy, or in the middle of a battle?? that’s not their job!), 

says Steve would waste his last precious moments of contact talking to a woman he’s not dating rather than saying goodbye to the men who’ve been fighting beside him for over a year?? 

And that he wouldn’t even bother to look for Bucky’s body?? (Only thing it got right was how much Bucky mattered to him / being a big part of why he wanted to fight!)

[parkour-and-coffee]

I mean having Morals is great and all but idk if they'd be enough for me to trust that boso with performing a military experiment

One interesting thing is that in CATFA, Steve absolutely panicked when he was about to get the serum in Project Rebirth and saw Howard was Dr Erskine's assistant. Because clearly the last time and also first time Steve saw Howard one of his inventions exploded......

Just imagine later on the battlefield:

Bucky: So who made you this tall and strong?

Steve: Remember the expo? There was one scientists called Dr Erskine, he came to me after you left that night. And also Howard stark, who you also met that night......

Bucky: Howard Stark, the guy who blow up his fucking flying car???

[countessravengrey]

Happy Birthday, Bucky!!

And Happy Stucky Resurrection/ Reignition/ Renaissance Day 2024!

Okay y'all, today's the day. Whatever you want to call it, we are bringing Stucky back (or acknowledging it never left) and celebrating it on Bucky Barnes's birthday.

Why not celebrate on Steve's? So glad you didn't ask. I have no idea how we got here except that Bucky's birthday came first in the original ask?:

Besides, Steve's birthday is all tied up with that whole "national holiday" thing, so let's give some love to our favorite misunderstood amputee brainwashed/wiped veteran on his birthday, yeah? Yeah.

Me personally? I'm doing the double (and a half) feature:

CATFA

CATWS

1st half of CACW (because the second half is just more Avengers focused)

I've been holding off watching all three of these movies for months in preparation. I didn't think it would be that hard not to watch CATWS (one of my top comfort movies) for this long, but here we are. I'm hoping I'll see something new. Even if I don't, it's still my favorite.

And yeah, I really plan to start at 7:04p EST lol. I like to think two supersoldiers would appreciate such a specific and fan-focused mission start time.

(get it? 7:04, 7/4, July 4th? ...my hyperfixation is showing)

I'm going to try to live-post reactions. And if that's not enough, I'll be posting as many metas and memes as I can find, so send some my way if you think I'll like them.

And, as promised, I got my first chapter up for a new long-form Omegaverse fic I've been working on and posted. Feel free to reblog!:

However you choose to celebrate, my dear fellow fans, make it epic.