#But a lot of fandom attitudes in fic and meta are frustrating

[avidbeader]

So, I've been doing the Great Sheith Reblog for a while now, gradually reblogging almost everything I shared before that was tagged as Sheith. Lots of art, gifsets, fics and recs, old merch posts, and meta to go around with the occasional dash of salt because lord, dumbness about shipping brings out the salt sometimes. But most of the time it's a lovely nostalgia hit and a reminder of why I still love this ship with all my fandom heart. It's bittersweet sometimes, seeing the usernames that left with Tumblr's worst decision ever, the fellow fans who have moved on to other things, and yes, the hopes and dreams we had before Season 8.

Long blathering under the cut: musings about the persistence of anti-shippers and what queerbaiting actually means.

But occasionally what both amuses and frustrates me is how things line up because it's 2024 and we still have klantis/antis over on the former Twitter spreading the same lies about Shiro and Keith - about their ages, about how they met, about what their relationship is. Right now over there, arguing is happening again because someone put up a clout-chasing poll about which mlm ship was the most influential and included KL but not Sheith (KL beat Johnlock and then lost to Hualian, so I'm happy twice over). Side note - I think if we take "influence" as a completely neutral term, then yeah, KL has been a huge negative influence on fandoms as it was one of the places that allowed puriteen attitudes and anti behavior to grow unchecked for so long. That helped turn some ship fandoms into cults, in which you had to believe with utter certainty that your ship would be canon or you weren't a "true" fan of the ship. That put more emphasis on opposing a rival ship through wank and harassment instead of focusing on the joy and fun of creating for the ship you supposedly love.

And that poll prodded someone to create a Google Form for soliciting answers as to what the biggest examples of queerbaiting are in media. And of course people are saying KL and Adam/Shiro, among other things that are not at all queerbait. These are examples of people guessing wrong and getting mad about it. Queerbait requires that the producers/writers/etc. say outright that a ship is going to happen and then it doesn't, without any influences from the powers above them making changes. Not received fan "wisdom". Not marketing doing things without consulting the producers.

And I just reblogged someone's ask in which they said they felt queerbaited by Sheith solely because of the "brother" line in "The Black Paladins". The answer is excellent and worth a ready if you haven't seen it on my blog already.

Breaking it down:

KL is not queerbait. KL was never planned as a potential ship and LM/JDS said so multiple times. They said it never occurred to them as a possibility and by the time KL's popularity took off they were too far along in the writing to try and go back and make changes, because animators need time to draw. LM flat-out said she was surprised that it became a thing. If the producers are telling you over and over in no uncertain terms that a ship had never been on the table and couldn't be added to the table now, that's not a case of queerbait. And they spoke of Lance's love interests as female every single time. JDS/LM never said anything that would lead fans into thinking KL was a possibility without the deliberate and willful misinterpreting of their words.

Adam/Shiro is not queerbait. Adam is a minor character in a series with a large cast. He has two functions: to be evidence of Shiro's status as a queer man and to be a "face" for all the pilots that died in the first wave of Sendak's invasion. Some people try to claim that LM and JDS queerbaited with their answers at SDCC 2018, but they're wrong. The only thing LM said was that we would see more of Adam in S7. And we did. She did not promise we'd see more of him with Shiro. That was people inserting what they wanted to hear, just like them trying to elevate Adam's status to a fiancé when again, LM clearly stated that they were serious and considering getting engaged. Not engaged. Not married. Just a couple that was serious about each other but broke up.

I don't consider Sheith to be true queerbait. It might fall under the cryptoqueer situation explained at the end of the post linked above, but JDS and LM were mostly very careful to talk of Sheith in terms of deep friendship and devotion to one another, after the initial wave of support for fan content during S1, prior to the klanti movement taking off. The only thing that skirts the line for me is a quote, I think from JDS, saying that if Shiro had a new love interest it would be someone he has known a long time. Or maybe that was about the romances in general being developed over seasons and not Shiro-specific - I would need to research. (Yet more proof that the endcard "wedding" was not planned since we didn't see the unnamed groom until S7 and they never interacted.) And that was said before studio execs started meddling and caused the trainwreck of S8.

I do think we were supposed to have an open ending for Sheith. Klantis like to point out a storyboard artist claiming that "no one wins" this ship war as evidence that KL was supposed to happen and got changed, but that statement applies if Sheith is left open-ended and Allurance happens, even without the endcards.

When I have a chance, I'll try and dig up the links for the various quotes I mention above. Thank you for reading if you made it this far!

[lady-of-the-spirit]

Fandom + Joan for the meta ask game!

JOAN!!!! ❤❤❤ thank you for asking! I love talking about her.

For the sake of not conflicting timelines or universes, I stuck with my oc canon where Booker doesn't betray the Guard and things happen normally up until the point where Merrick's men ruin everything and kidnap Joe and Nicky. None of that shit happens. Just some weird new team dynamics forming since they've got TWO new immortals hanging out with them. (I also feel the need to share this ask about Copley for info on that situation and my oc canon.)

Put this whole thing under a read more because it got LONG.

What do you think the fandom for your character would be like? Are they a fan favorite, a love to hate villain, derided for whatever reason, or something else?

Honestly I don't know! I think Joan is a pretty harmless character, she's just chilling and doing her own thing, so she wouldn't be hated. The Old Guard fandom is pretty good about loving all the characters, so she's gonna be fine. I think she'll be especially loved by the people who like characters who just want to do their own thing without getting dragged into plot shenanigans lmao. Hopefully Joan would be to the aroace fans what Nicky and Joe and Andy and Quynh are to the gay fans - the rep they're looking for in action movies. But more critically, because this fandom gives unequal attention to the women vs the guys, I think Joan would unfortunately fall into a similar category as Niles, which is often "the side character who's there to be the best friend supporting the main ship/the newbie to the experienced older ones" if not ignored completely. But for the ones who don't do this, I think she'd be the cool character who just does her own thing, who has a journey of her own that's fun to analyze and talk about! And a long, kinda sad history that would have a lot of potential for fics!

What feelings does your character most often instill in their fans? Affection? A desire to protect? Open lust? A love/hate dynamic? Why do you think their fans feel this way?

Definitely a desire to protect! Girl has been on her own FOREVER! she has anxiety! But also I can see people wanting to be her lmao she lives on her own, pretty securely I might add, she's got a cat, she's best friends with the crows, she's living that Ursula from Kiki's Delivery Service life. Joan's just a normal person, living her life, she just has had a long time to figure out what she wants her life to look like and make it happen, and I can see fans finding wish fulfillment in her.

By contrast, what would their haters dislike about your character? Is it a petty complaint? A mischaracterization of the character or their intentions? Are they just a woman in a largely male-centric series?

I can see common complaints being that she's "boring". Which honestly is fair. She's meant to be boring - or at least have a boring life. She's not an action hero, she's not a warrior, she's a civilian. She wants a normal life, or as normal a life as she can have.

Joan also has issues with how she deals with her frustration over the whole "I wasn't alone but I thought I was" situation. She tries really hard not to take it out on the old guard, but sometimes it slips out without her meaning to even though she knows it wasn't anyone's fault and it was just shitty luck. When it does slip out, it ends up directed at Andy as the leader of the group. I can see some fans having issues with that, since people have similar issues with how Booker felt alone in his grief despite having his friends.

What controversies/drama would your character incite in fandom?

She's pretty low-drama, but since fandoms can be pretty casually or not so casually aphobic, her being aroace could be an issue. I feel like the old guard fandom is better than other fandoms, but I haven't seen all corners of the fandom and ngl I don't want to.

Joan's attitude towards her immortality and how she lives her life is in conflict with Andy's attitude, and that causes some conflict between them, so I can see the fandom getting into discourse over their respective philosophies. But since the movie takes the philosophy that nihilism isn't the answer, or at least that trying to make things better isn't meaningless, I can't see this being a huge controversial topic. maybe in smaller corners of the fandom.

What fan-material would exist for your character in fandom?

There'd probably be angsty artwork of her being alone and feeling lonely lmao. I can see a lot of fics analyzing her loneliness and anxiety through the centuries. Fics that explore how she navigated the centuries alone, as well as lots of fics where she almost meets the guard but just misses them, or aus where she did find them. Fics where she and the guard are just hanging out and being a found family together. I can see some angsty aus where she ends up captured before canon and Nile dreams of her and they're like "Wait there's another one of us out there BEING TORTURED???" and they go save her.

Is your character the subject of ‘imagines’ or ‘x reader’ style blogs?

Well, I haven't seen many imagines for The Old Guard in the first place, but since Joan's aroace, I sure hope not!

Are there any tropes fandom would put upon your character, for better or for worse?

"Hates romance." She hates it in regards to herself, but otherwise she just doesn't care about it. (You react with digust at the idea of dating your friend one time and you get labelled for life...)

I think people would also try to make her a woobie but like, even though she has had a rough time of it she's not miserable. She's learned to live her life as it comes, and yeah, she's lonely, she has her traumas, but she's still enjoying her life.

People might also assign her as a character who simply has the worst luck or the worst timing and. Honestly I think that would be kinda funny so I don't mind it.

What would be the ‘incorrect but wildly popular’ interpretation of your character in fandom?

The fandom would try and make Joan and Andy have conflict all the time and that's simply not true. Their philosophies clash. They have some beef, but that's mostly to do with their own issues and how it connects to the other. They themselves actually get along and respect each other a lot. They do have some conflict, but they still get along outside of that.

also I feel like people would make Joan a little "too anxious"? She does have anxiety but I feel like they would overdo it somehow, I don't know.

What corners of fandom would consider your character blorbo material?

I feel like The Old Guard fandom blorbo-fies all of the characters pretty well. But I really hope that the aroace members of the fandom would like her and make her their blorbo! Like that's the dream for me.

oc meta ask list!

[lovecolibri]

Being upset is so valid, I know it’s just a show but WHATEVER, you should allow yourself to feel what you feel! And you should also be allowed to have opinions and share them on your blog lmao I’ll be honest, I have several friends irl who watch 911 and ship buddie and we aallll cannot stand this show anymore lmao and it’s very liberating to be able to speak your mind. Sadly fandom, especially Tumblr for some reason, seems to be hellbent on making passive aggressive comments on people who don’t like what they like? I totally agree with you, if people enjoy it good for them, I’m not gonna make posts about how you have to be stupid to like it cause I don’t think that’s the case?? We are just looking for different things in a show and that’s okay! However I am a blocking machine cause I don’t see the point in reading takes that are so different from mine 😂 but it is very frustrating that any negative comment needs to be censured or you become the devil and also you are not capable of understanding long form of media and also you should stop watching the show hskshdk I have stopped watching the show and I still like to check what happened and I still like to complain, what can you do about it 😂 anyway I hope you’re okay, and take care of yourself! I remember when Roswell made me soooo mad and I had to deal with it alone and it sucked 😔 and you don’t have to publish this if you don’t want to, I don’t mean to create drama or anything, just wanted to be supportive 😂

Hey, thanks Nonnie! I think for a lot of people (I'm for sure one of them, yay neurodivergency), when you find something that's a source of serotonin, it can be QUITE the crash when it stops, and no matter how low your expectations, if you struggle with emotional regulation, the rollercoaster can be rough. Curating your experience is a MUST, and knowing how to manage when your brain tries to get the best of you is also a must! Sometimes that means commiserating with others who are also unhappy (NOT going into the inboxes of people who clearly disagree with you. stop that), sometimes it means logging off and doing something else, sometimes it means reading or writing fic or making content that makes you happy about the thing, sometimes it means not looking at ANYTHING about the thing. At the end of the day, we're all just trying to do what works for us.

As a survivor of RNM, I thought I could handle this but I think RNM got SO bad SO fast that it was always a lot of "here are 3 good things that people will make AMAZING fics/metas/content about and 85 things you will need to ignore or you will start seething with rage". Where as 911 was so consistent for so long that watching it struggle so hard (across the board, not just with Buddie, though that seems to get the brunt of it on the "nearly unwatchable" scale whereas other stuff is more "meh. they could have done this better") has been really rough because there is already so much love for the show built up and we have SEEN what it can be when it's at it's very best. And disliking certain arcs or story choices doesn't necessarily mean throwing the whole show out! There are LOTS of things I love about this show, and I'm not at the point for me where I'm ready to let the show go and I've never really understood the "don't like, don't watch" attitude every time anyone brings up a single complaint. It seems very "you HAVE to love every single thing and choice or you can't watch the show" when most people have things they both like and dislike about pretty much everything! It's okay to not like every single choice! (though if you legit find nothing to enjoy about a thing then it's maybe not for you and that's okay!)

Thanks for checking in! I have a lot of other stuff going on right now so it's very much like "why is this the thing we are focusing on, brain? Why are we allowing ourselves to feel like this? It's a show??" but hey! Sometimes our brains do whatever TF they want and we just gotta manage as best we can. At on the bright side, tumblr has filters! You can block tags! You can block content within posts! this will let you remove certain stuff from your experience without necessarily having to unfollow people. BUT! You can also unfollow people! You can block people! Make your experience what you want! And learn what works FOR YOU to manage your disappointment. Some people are "gotta get the anger out to let it go" people, and some are "gotta find the positive spin" people and some are both or neither. Find what works. Do that. Don't be dicks in people's inboxes, and don't drag the cast/crew into the drama on public sm platforms, they don't plan out the storylines.

[fatalism-and-villainy]

@aeide-thea:

yeah—i LOVE analytical critique and am frequently sad that fandom’s attitude towards it, ime, is largely neutral-to-actively-hostile (insofar as it’s perceived to be Negativity that’s ~harshing other people’s squee~)

Real!! In general, a big factor in how willing I am to engage with a piece of media in the long term, fandom-wise, has to do with how "good" I think it is in terms of craft. And I'm pretty much always inclined to pull something apart and examine all its different moving parts, and analyze the story in terms of its construction and stylistics.

Fanfiction-based fandom can be incredibly hostile to that kind of analysis - I'm thinking of that awful post that goes "lol, who cares if something's a plot hole, just make a headcanon like everyone else" - those are two different types of engagement, and one is not a substitute for the other! Similarly, back when the Star Wars sequels were airing, I saw a lot of sentiments that went something like "stop complaining that the story wasn't written the way you wanted and write a fanfic instead." Again, different forms of engagement! (That was especially frustrating because I always wanted to say to the people making that argument, "Wow, I'd really like to be on your side here, stop being an obtuse blockhead about the mere concept of media critique and demanding that everyone engage with fandom the way you do!")

That's all a bit more specific than the problem I'm articulating here - my experience isn't that fandom is hostile to meta in general (I mean, again, I get more interaction with and compliments about my meta posts than I do with fic!). There is still a pretty active meta culture in my fandom. But I don't see meta get appreciation in broader discussions of fandom. There aren't many shoutouts to meta writers the way there are for, say, fic writers or gifmakers; there's no sense that I'm doing others a favour by sharing meta the way there is with fic; there's not the same expectation that I can push my meta posts in front of others and say "hey, I wrote this, read it!" when that's seen as fine and expected with fic. Meta in general, I think, is seen as something ephemeral, or something that's still in its primordial form (I'll never forget the person who claimed meta was basically the same thing as fic, but in an unfinished form), rather than something actively crafted that takes time and effort to write (which, by the way - it does!).

Man, getting back into fandom is really hammering home for me that in my heart of hearts, I'm a meta person, not a fic person. I was first enticed into fandom primarily by meta, I joined tumblr because I liked reading meta threads of back-and-forth conversations, and when I'm highkey interested in a piece of media, my first impulse is to want to devour all the analysis and commentary on it, wherever it falls on the scale of formal to informal.

And I mean, I enjoy writing fic! I read fic! I'm not categorically uninterested in fic. But I just don't have the same kind of memory for fic - who wrote it, what was said, etc. - that I do for meta. And I don't go back and read fics over and over nearly as often - whereas if there's a meta post or thread that I really like, I'll read it over and over and sometimes memorize the whole thing. (Yep, I'm autistic!) It's just fulfilling to me as an approach in a way fic on its own can't be. (And honestly, most of my fic is prompted by meta impulses - no matter how id-based the premise, my approach is usually doing a deep dive into character, themes, etc.)

I like my fics, for the most part, and I think writing them fulfills me in its own way. But I also like my meta posts, and mini essays, and what have you. And while I know you can post meta on ao3, I never feel like there's the same emphasis on meta as something I should take pride in, something that I poured work and thought into, something I can hold up as discrete works I've created for a fandom. Never the same expectation that I should want to promo that, or that I'm doing people a favour by posting it publicly. Even though I actually get more compliments and feedback on meta I post here than I do on fic! But so many spaces, or ambient fandom discussions, assume that fic is or should be everybody's primary form of engagement. Which can be... alienating.

[thesecondbatgirl]

17 Essays I will eventually write (or not) that will get me kicked out of Star Wars fandom

1-Antisemitism and the attitude towards the Jedi. Genocide is bad and while you're at it stop with the "well if they changed the way their religion works they’d have been fine" and also for the love of EVERYTHING stop changing the meaning of Hebrew names for your conlang. Also, yelling that the Jedi “secretly control the republic” leans into a bunch of dogwhistles, please stop.

2-Words have meaning, attachment has a very specific context in Star Wars. It refers specifically to *possessive love*, you know, the sort that leads to abusive relationships or murdering people because they took something of yours.And also Satine did not commit cultural genocide but every single one of you going on about how the Jedi should be forced to change their culture are attempting to do so. (What Satine did was basically institute gun control, kthnx) Also master with the Jedi is not implying *slavery*

3-Actually the Prequel Jedi did nothing wrong. Were they perfect? No. But they did the absolute best they could to reduce harm with the amount of information they had, and maybe stop blaming them for every wrong in the galaxy when the Senate and the Sith exist, thanks. The Jedi did everything in their power to *mitigate harm* with the information they had.

3a-Seriously Yoda is not responsible for all evils in the galaxy, and the fact that the most frequently bashed Jedi (Mace, Ki-Adi Mundi) are all PoC is fucking telling.

4-Jedi are not Space Catholics. Yoda is not the Jedi Pope.

5-Actually the Mandos are Space Catholics Missionaries and the fact that y'all stan them freaks me out, especially when you celebrate them for the same things you criticize the Jedi for

5a-It has been asked that I elaborate and/or change this one to Space Missionaries so I will just say a) Mandos are canonically opposed to pre-marital sex, b) the gender role stuff is a lot of fucking nonsense, c) there's a lot of "if you aren't Mando this way you're not Mando" d) there's a lot of emphasis on raising kids and taking people from other cultures and then raising THEM as Mandos and e) a lot of "inherently better at raising kids" that... twigs a lot of stereotypes and f) a lot of fanfic gives the kara the super special Mando only version of the force (plus you know, Mandos and their constant schisms, did they have three Mandalors at one time who all excommunicated each other? I would not be shocked)

5b) Really 4 and 5 can boil down to "people criticize the Jedi for a lot of shit that they then applaud fanon Mandos for, and considering I have literally gotten into it with people who insist Yoda is the Jedi Pope I used Catholic as shorthand for a lot of it and I do apologize for it

5c) Also the Jedi don't steal kids but the Mandos canonically do, fuck you Traviss

6-If you're writing in a shared/open canon that means various authors have different interpretations & people get to pick and choose which parts they use. So there's nothing wrong with using Jedi Apprentice etc to give Obi-Wan more angst but people are also free to ignore it. And also ignore writers who they think get the characters wrong. Because that happens. (I spent a lot of time in comics fandom and I have a long list of writers who I will just ignore their runs because they got [character] completely wrong)

7-Sometimes though please look at actual canon events instead of just relying on fandom osmosis because The Jedi did not attack first at Galidraan stop acting like they are the ones to blame & also Qui-Gon did NOT steal Anakin from Shmi..

8-Write whatever you want, just please consider the implications of what you're writing and tag accordingly, thank you. And also if you are going to write something *ist that means you can and will get called out on it. You can (and should if you want!) write stuff that deals with issues and dark povs, but for the love of everything please at least throw up a disclaimer being like "views of characters are not those of the author" because sometimes it does not look that way. (And in no way am I suggesting attacking/dogpiling authors, but I am saying you might get a comment or two going “hey this trope you’re using relies on racist beliefs, maybe reconsider and/or put up a warning) Like, I so much prefer when people write fucked up stuff and you can tell the author is aware of what they’re doing and its on purpose vs the person who is writing what’s clearly an abusive relationship and tags it “fluff” and “relationship goals”

9-Actually Anakin is responsible for his own choices and he could have left the Jedi to marry Padme if he wanted, and also he made the choice to commit murder multiple times. Padme is also responsible for her own choices, including covering up murders.

10-People show love and affection in different ways and all love languages are valid and Obi-Wan (and the Jedi) are not robots seriously acts of service is a super valid fucking love language and also um they do express affection did you see how Obi-Wan hugged Dex? 

11-The Jedi are not a cult, the end.

12-Also dictatorships are bad and being like "the Jedi should just go invade places" is also bad.

13-Everything about the Jedi being inspired by Asian cultures and also specifically Buddhism but I am not knowledgeable to write that so I will just point out there are plenty of Asian fans doing the work and talking about it.

14-There is zero evidence is current Disney canon that that clones identify as Mandos/speak Mandoa and um, I have issues with the idea that the clones with their *shitty* childhoods would be "inherently better at raising kids" than Jedi.

15-Actually drugging someone without their consent is bad, even if you think its "for their own good" and the sheer amount of fics that act like Jedi would forget to eat or sleep or bathe is infantalizing as fuck.

16-I am begging fandom to learn about the concepts of “villain protagonist”, “unreliable narrator” and “protagonist centered morality.”

17-Opsec is a thing in war, so like, maybe the Jedi are justified in not telling Anakin the details of classified missions where his telling the wrong person could lead to death? ... I probably have more but 17 is enough, oops

[destieldailynews]

Meet the Staff!

Here at the DDN we have a lovely crew of hard working hellers devoted to getting you the facts when you need them. We’ve each written bios introducing ourselves which are located beneath the cut. If you’re interested in joining the team, here is a post about what we need.

A note: if you didn’t get a response to your application it is possible there was a typo in your blog url that kept us from reaching out. if you applied and would like to know the status of your application, go ahead and send a DM to @lateral-org.

Hi! I’m Lina, (she/her) and I write the news! I’m actually quite a new addition to the fandom, as I only got properly involved at the beginning of quarantine, but I am already invested enough to be reading a copious amount of fan fiction and writing an essay on the queer representation in the show. My favourite quote has to be “happiness isn’t in the having. It’s in just being. It’s in just saying it,” and that is why I will never get over 15x18.

Hey! I’m T (@lateral-org), my pronouns are she/they and I’m the main editor for DDN. I used to be obsessed with SPN in 2015 but stopped watching regularly around season twelve. 15x18 sucked me back in, and now I’m invested not just in the show, but all of the stuff going on behind the scenes. I joined DDN because keeping up with #destielgate has basically just become a hobby of mine, and I wanted to make the details more accessible to anyone else who was interested. I’m a deangirl through and through, and my favorite quote is “I have no idea, but what I do have is a GED and a give ‘em hell attitude. I’ll figure it out.” 

Howdy! I’m Jas (@you-changedmedean), she/her, and I’m a researcher/editor for DDN, plus doing a bit of blog maintenance. I’ve been casually around the fandom since high school but in 2018 is when I got emotionally involved. I’m currently in college and I began my Tumblr only this year. I’ve already received so much support from everyone in the fandom and it’s been the craziest ride. Even if S/P/N is over, there’s still so much to uncover from the last season. With future conventions on the way as well as actors speaking up more, DDN will be able to provide relevant and accurate information to the fandom in a timely manner. Favorite character is Castiel and if my username (you-changedmedean) can tell you anything, it’s also my favorite quote. 

Hi! I'm Amber, she/her, (@my-people-skillls-are-rusty) and I am a researcher/editor for DDN. I've been in the fandom since around 2015 but got a lot more active in the last couple of years. I don't really know why I joined DDN, I just had a lot of free time and was very invested in the fandom, so might as well have it directed somewhere. My favourite character is either Dean or Castiel, I can't choose between them.  I also don't have a favourite quote as there are so many to choose from, but as its my user name I will go with 'my "people skills" are "rusty"'

Hey! I’m Ally, she/her (@larandomfangirl) and I am a researcher/writer/editor for DDN. I started watching Supernatural back when I was in 8th grade in 2017, and have remained caught up and active in the fandom since then. I joined DDN because 15x18, and everything that has happened since then, made me even more invested in the show and I wanted to help spread factual information about whatever occurs next. My favorite character is either Sam or Cas (I blame being a younger sibling for that), and one of my favorite quotes is “happiness isn’t in the having. It’s in just being. It’s in just saying it.”

Hi! I am Saffa (she/her) (@castiel-holmeshasthephonebox), and I am one of the writers on DDN! I was introduced to Supernatural by tumblr only a year ago, and since then I have been completely hooked. First, I fell in love with Dean and then I fell in love with the creative side of the fandom, all the fics and edits, and I just tumbled deeper down the destiel hell-hole. My favourite quote is "I'm hunted, I rebelled, and I did all of it for you."

Hey! I’m El (they/them)  (@desperately-human) I am one of the writer/editors here at DDN. I only started paying attention to Supernatural this fall (november 5, really) but since then, having every update on #destielgate has been my main hobby. Almost everything I know I have absorbed through memes, liveblogs, and those amvs on youtube. I’ve never actually seen an episode all the way through. That said, upon reflection i believe I am a Cas girl gender neutral term. Cliche but intense, I like “I’m the one who gripped you tight and raised you from perdition.” 

Hello! My name is Liz (@bart-ska-mpson) and I am a researcher/writer. Got into SPN in 2014-ish because of superwholock tumblr peer pressure, and whattaknow, it became my favorite of all of them, mainly because of the sheer power of Destiel! I read meta like the morning newspaper back then. I became frustrated by the end of s10 and by the time Lucifer possessed the president I just could not take it anymore (if only I kept watching til Lily Sunder :’(...). But really I never totally lost faith in canon Destiel and  words cannot describe the feeling I had when I heard through Tumblr that it finally happened. I’ve been so obsessed with trying to figure out what's “really happening” so I figured I might as well help out here. My favorite quote is the whole conversation Dean and Cas have when he finds him in Purgatory. “I prayed to you Cas, every night!” “I know” </33333

Hi! I'm Kat (@team-free-memes), she/her, and I'm a researcher and editor here at the DDN. I was internet-pressured into watching the show after seeing so many posts about it online. I've been in the fandom for over a year. I joined the DDN because I've always been an avid Destiel shipper and season 16 has gripped me tight and raised me from sanity, so I want to help clear things up for other fans lost in the sea of conspiracy theories to ensure that the truth circulates. I can't choose between Cas and Jack for the title of my favorite character, but in any case I am definitely Dean coded. My favorite quote is, "Now I realize that there is no righteous path. It's just people trying to do their best in a world where it's far too easy to do your worst."

Hey! My name is Lana (@curvedsphere), she/they, and I’m a part of the research, editing, and blog teams at DDN. I started watching the show when season 11 was airing, but didn’t get into fandom until early season 13, where I fell hard and fast into this community and have been here ever since! It’s also when I started actively and avidly shipping Destiel (I was just a casual shipper before then). I joined the DDN because I’m so truly invested in season 16 - in finding/figuring out as much of the truth as possible about the finale and the rest of season 15. My favourite character is probably Cas, but I love all of TFW 2.0 and Wayward a lot. I have so many favourite quotes that I love, but not-surprisingly I think I have to go with either “Happiness isn’t in the having, it’s in just being”, or “for love”.

Hi! I’m Steph (@stephlovessubway), she/her and I’m a researcher at DDN. I started watching the show in 2007 (on YouTube no less) and then watching live with season 4 in 2008. I have seen the highs (season 4 and season 5) and the lows (season 7) on Tumblr, and took a break for a few years and started back with season 10. I rewatched all the series in the first UK lockdown and managed to witness the wild end of season 15. I’ve shipped destiel from the beginning, mainly because Cas is my favourite character, and have thoroughly enjoyed season 16 on Tumblr. My favourite quote is Cas’s monologue at the beginning of The Man Who Would Be King.

[makeste]

I was originally going to send this message declaring my undying love for your metas and chapter reviews aND THEN - AND THEN MAKESTE - I READ THE ANSWER WHERE YOU SAID YOU WERE ARO AND THAT MAKES ME SOOOOO HAPPY. I'm aroace and it is SO FRUSTRATING to want to consume platonic or familial interaction between people and CONSTANTLY only get romantic or sexual. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR EVERYTHING YOU CONTRIBUTE

woooo up top! solidarity lol.

for me it’s like... I don’t know if “frustrating” is the word I would use, but I do wish there was more gen out there. and that’s also something I’ve felt awkward about wanting in the past, because my early fandom years took place in a time where slash was much less of an everyday commonplace thing than it is now, and liking it was still a fairly controversial thing. the internet was a much more openly homophobic place than it is now. like, picture the purity police of modern day tumblr, but if they attacked any kind of non-heterosexual relationship as being sick and perverted and wrong. that was pretty much the general vibe. this was before AO3, and people who wrote slash often didn’t post it on ff.net and only posted it to their own private blogs and/or locked and moderated communities instead just so they wouldn’t be harassed. and there was absolutely no canon representation out there at all, or next to none. it was very much a “[rolls eyes] oh the yaoi fangirls are at it again” sort of thing where non-cishet relationships in fiction and fanfiction were at best not taken seriously at all, and at worst were treated with outright scorn and disgust.

and so like, with this being a common attitude at the time, I felt guilty for not always wanting to read slash myself. like, I don’t mind reading about romantic relationships at all, but for me there also has to be some other kind of element in play as well, or else it’s just not going to click for me. if a fic is just romance, just a lot of pining and slow burn stuff without anything else really going on in the plot, I just get bored and disinterested. I almost want to use the word tired, even though I’m not sure that makes much sense. I just can’t connect to the emotions, and so I disengage pretty quickly. and so I tend to steer clear of time-honored fandom staples like coffee shop AUs or And They Were Roommates, just because for me there’s rarely anything there for me to latch onto. I like angst, but I can’t relate to “so and so doesn’t feel the same way about me”, or “I want to be with them so bad but I don’t know how to confess”, or “they’re with someone else and it hurts like crazy every time I see them and know we can’t be together”, because none of those are emotions that I have ever personally felt, and I just can’t make myself feel them. what I can relate to are things like “this person makes me feel safe”, or “I feel a strong connection to this person”, or “I trust this person more than anyone else” because those feelings aren’t exclusively romantic in nature. I can relate to closeness and caring and love and affection and trust, but what I can’t relate to is the feeling of having a single person occupy all of your thoughts all the time, and very badly wanting to be the most important thing in their life as well, and feeling incomplete otherwise.

but anyway I spiraled away from the point I was trying to get to, which is that for a long time I actually felt guilty about feeling this way. because even though it’s rare to find fanworks where gen/platonic relationships are at the center, actual canon is chock full of said relationships. and so it’s like, what right do I even have to complain when I get to read all the time about so and so being friends, but the people who actually want them to be in a relationship in the actual canon so rarely get to see that actually happen. because that much has not changed in the past 20 years, even though society has become far more accepting of LGBTQ+ relationships. most canons are still far more likely to tease a non-hetero ship -- on purpose, even, hence why queerbaiting is a thing -- than actually commit to it. and so I often feel like I have no right to voice my desire for more genfic, because genfic has never faced the same kind of scrutiny as slashfic. gen has always been acceptable, and there is plenty of canon representation of platonic and non-romantic relationships, and so it’s not something I have any business whining about.

and even now I feel fairly uncomfortable voicing this lol. I write almost exclusively genfic myself, and up until very recently, I’ve always defined gen in my head as being just a lack of romantic or sexual content, rather than being its own distinct category. I think that’s one of the reasons it took me so long to realize I was aro (that, and I’d honestly never even come across the term until just a few years ago). for me, my lack of interest in romantic affection always felt more like a lack of identity rather than an identity in and of itself. I always felt like I was missing something. and for a very long time it never occurred to me that this might be a permanent thing; I just figured, okay, I just haven’t had this feeling yet. it just hasn’t happened for me yet. but eventually it would, and I just hadn’t met the right person, or whatever. but it was never anything I particularly wanted, and I never felt like I was missing out on anything by not having it. I never felt any kind of longing for it or felt incomplete without it. I was actually perfectly content!

but because society treats romantic orientation as the norm and places such a huge emphasis on it, I still had the uncomfortable feeling in the back of my head that if I never fell in love with someone and never wound up having a relationship with someone, my life would somehow be less meaningful and whole. like, we’re raised to think that romantic love is basically the pinnacle of the human experience, the purest and truest emotion that anyone can feel. and at the same time, there’s this idea that a life without that kind of love is just sad and unfulfilling and tragic. and so for a very long time my experience with my own aromanticism was characterized by me thinking of it as a lack of something that everyone else said was very important. and it took a long time to realize that that wasn’t the case, and that it was a valid orientation all its own and not just a matter of me being deficient in some way. and that was actually such a relief to finally come to terms with. I can be whole and complete on my own and still have a rich and fulfilling human experience even if I never experience romantic love, and that’s fine. I’m not missing anything. I’m not wrong for feeling like I’m not missing anything. it’s fine to be content with just me as I am. like, holy shit. and that was such a weight off my shoulders to finally get that.

I once wrote a fic which I was and still am very proud of. it was a genfic, and it had a really intricate plot with a big twist at the very end. and there was a ton of emotion in it, and it got very intense at times, because these were two characters who cared a lot about each other and would literally die for each other if they had to, and I’d put them in a situation where that possibility was very much looming over their heads at every turn. and I really put everything I had into trying to convey that kind of bond as strongly as possible. like I poured a ton of my heart and soul into that fic. and the responses were almost universally positive and kind and made me really happy.

there was one response though, that still sticks with me to this day. it was by and large very positive, just like the others. but it ended with a single sentence that, at the time, kind of just lowkey gutted me. Not gonna lie though, would have loved some slash in there.

like, that just cut me. way more than this person actually intended, I think. I’m pretty sure they just meant it as an offhanded comment, not even a concrit or anything. just “haha would have loved it if they’d kissed though lol.” but it stung. because this was something I’d put every ounce of emotion that I could conjure up into. and even though it wasn’t mean to be hurtful in any way, to me that comment read as “this is still missing something.” because there was no romance, the fic was incomplete. the characters’ feelings were incomplete. even though I’d struggled so much to convey all of these complex emotions which to me were so real and powerful, and even though the comment even acknowledged that I had by and large done so effectively, to me the single takeaway that stuck was that the feelings were less meaningful because there was no romance.

and that felt like a failing on my part. I even apologized for it. and here we are, ten years later, and that comment still pops up in my head any time I feel the urge to talk about a popular ship which I support but which I also enjoy as just a friendship. “just” a friendship. I still feel guilt over that. I still feel this urge to overexplain that I’m not trying to invalidate the actual romantic ship. I worry that I’d be perceived as ungrateful and/or a bad ally if I ever just came out and said “I wish there was more gen” like you were able to say so freely, anon. I worry about people getting offended if I were to say “I headcanon so and so as being aroace” because it might be viewed as an attack on their ships, or as latent homophobia, or something. like I have this paranoid fear that people might take it as me being puritanical and all “oh no, icky sex” or whatever, and so I end up just never bringing it up at all.

and that’s the thing about aromanticism, though; it’s so easy to just never talk about it at all, because for so many people it is just defined as a lack of something, rather than a something all on its own. it’s so easy for it to be something you just never bring up, and which just kind of quietly exists as the boring, bland, inoffensive yet uninteresting lack of a relationship; the default blank slate that most everyone is dying to fill in as soon as possible, except for you. and I’ve gone on thinking about it that way myself for so long that I’m still struggling now to sort out how to embrace it as an actual identity. it’s something I still have a lot of work to do on I guess.

anyway! so that all got very long and rambling and personal, far more so than I intended; clearly I have a lot of pent up thoughts and feelings about this lol. I guess I probably could stand to talk about it more, since the evidence would indicate that I clearly want to. but eh, baby steps. but anyways you are super valid anon and thank you so much for the love and comments. <3

[frogmentarii]

QUESTIONS FOR OC CREATORS

Haaaa ok so I am doing this cause i saw @fallout-lou-begas steal it from @tarberrymentats and they both looked like they were havin hella fun so i am commandeering this for my own purposes. So lucky for yall its Emi time (art by the dearest @yesjejunus because yall need to see more of her work)

A) Why are you excited about this character?

Because she's an older woman (57) that breaks a lot of moulds and I love to see it. Aside from just enjoying older characters, Emi isn't a sweet old lady and she isn't here to try and mother anyone. Her drives are entirely her own and while she prioratizes herself and her sister before anyone else, its not always due to complete selfishness and just due to growing up in the wastes (I try to keep her character true to a fend for yourself setting as possible). I think Ill go into detail in another question with this, but I went through a lot of concepts and personalities for Emi before settling on someone who was seasoned and very much a product of the wastes. I think after seeing a lot of other couriers I finally figured out what I wanted to do differently, and that sort of helped guide her to become what she is today.

B) What inspired you to create them?

I think my last line there sort of short answers this. I wanted someone different from the other couriers I saw, and wanted to make one that was distinct or even juxtaposed against some tropes. She's a woman in her late 50s that doesnt try and play mom/granny to the companions, she very much has no stake in what happens to the Mojave, she doesnt care about Benny or that he shot her in the head (such is life in the Mojave, but she did have a job to complete so ripperoni him), and a lot of her motivations are selfish or exist to benefit her sister. She doesnt act 'old' in the fact that she isn't a wise caring soul or a grumpy old man, but rather her age is shown through her experience, and this also shapes her personality. She's never had to formally 'grow up' so she can come off as immature and irritating for her own entertainment, but she doesn't have youthful ignorance for how the world works. She knows how to be responsible but she doesnt have to act like it outwardly, even with her Tragic Caregiver Backstory.

C) Did you have trouble figuring out where they fit in their own story?

To a large degree in the beginning, yes, and to specific degrees now, also yes. Writing in general isnt my strong point though I did know what I wanted for her. The main image is there but the details are funky, and Ive been slowly hammering those out as I work along with her and Camila's stories. There's been some huge changes along the way that help push both of them towards an ending I like and that fits them, and even if it takes forever and I never actually write a fic, I'll be happy when she finally feels completed in New Vegas.

Aside from that, she kind of fits in anywhere in regards to AUs. My friend @yesjejunus and I have probably like 40000 fucking aus for our OCs and all of them feel just as organic and their canon stories.

D) Have they always had the same physical appearance, or have you had to edit how they look?

So I know I have an 'original concept Emilia' art on here where she looked like Laura Croft and had aviators but that wasnt even her first concept. I had originally wanted to make a petite southern belle type from Louisiana who used a shot gun and had a mean streak, but as I kept playing with concepts Emi really started to lean other places. Another huge change was her personality. Even when her concept got settled as a sniper from Mexico, she was suppose to be an early 30s caravan guard who was way too sure of herself. While there are reminents of that concept still in her, she has a lot more experience in the wastes and in think-on-your-feet situations to back up her attitude. Another thing she required was dropping her "take me seriously" personality with more goofy "i do what i want cause why not" traits.

E) Are they someone you would get along with? Would they get along with you?

Emi can get along with anyone at a surface level, for a small while, if it will benefit her or she wants to pass time. She really doesn't have interest in folks who arent interesting or beneficial in some way. Since I don't really offer her much, and am a bit of a wet bag, she might yank my chain for her own funsies or she'd have no interest.

And while I did indeed give Emi my go with the flow attitude, I think I wouldn't be able to keep up with her. Emi is very fast paced and doesnt necessarily have regard for those she decides to pick up as drinking buddies for the night. Def dont trust her with my life, and knowing the shit she gets into I'd def want to steer clear of it....like a trainwreck its much better to watch her from a safe distance, lol.

F) What do you feel when you think of your OC (pride, excitement, frustration, etc)?

A lot of affection from a meta standpoint? I've worked with Emi and Cam a lot since creating them, and they've def come a long way since their original concepts. I wouldn't say their story is quite where I want it yet, but I am quite happy with it overall.

That, and Ive met so many awesome writers along the way with Emi. Not all of my friends have posted fic but the amount of world building and having our characters interact and talking OCs ive done with them has placed both Emi and their OCs in a special place for me. Sure her having her own story is fun but I much more prefer the bonds Ive created with people over OCs and I think thats a bit more of a cherished component to character creation for me.

G) What trait of theirs bothers you the most?

Literally? That she likes to be irritating if she feels she can get away with it (or even if she cant). Actually? That she has a very "I shelter you and feed you therefore I make the rules, period." stance on how she takes care of her charge. She lets a lot of shit slide with Camila but things get very Rapunzel-esque at times.

H) What trait do you admire most?

How sure of herself she is. Even if its to a fault, she trusts herself and her judgements. That sort of confidence is something I strive to have haha.

To a lesser degree, and more of a meta point I wanted to make with her, just...her appearance I suppose? To me she's attractive, but she also has a lot of traits that aren't conventionally attractive and that's played a lot into how Ive wanted her to be. Again she's 57 years old. She has age to her body, her skin wrinkles and droops, her tits sag, she has the body of someone who uses chems, and yet despite her age and breaking of beauty standards ive made it a point to show that she is desired or thought of as attractive in non fetish specific circumstances. She herself, while aro, also still has an active sex drive and I really wanted this to be a backseat part of her character, as I feel like fandom in general shafts older women in this department (this also goes for a lot of her non 'old lady' traits I give her too). She still has sexual needs and is still very much sexually active, and she is still found to be a regular sort of attractive and is desired by those she gets involved with.

J) Did you have to manipulate or exclude canon factors to allow them to create their character?

Yes? Ish, to a degree. I didnt have to but I wanted to. I also did a lot of headcanoning with post Mexico for her early life which, afaik is free real estate for lore/nothing super detailed has been given in canon.

Given that she and Camila both shape their stories as individuals, I did have to split up some canon elements to follow two seperate characters, but other than that I really just had to make sure Emilia's story wasnt "boring" in the fact that she again, has no real stake in what happens to Vegas/the Mojave.

I) Do you prefer to keep them in their canon universe?

Cackles in 'which au will I obsess with today'

For the most part yes, however I love placing her in new things or different stories. She may be 'my courier' but really shes just the frog granny that goes into whatever au I am feeling at the time.

[maghrib-genova]

Thanks Jesus you and karanoidandroid exists to constantly feed our top!Joe hearts with drawings and hcs!! Have you been on ao3 lately? Jesus, it's like a bottomJoe fest there right now, so frustrating and disappointing. I guess the purity police finally accomplished what they wanted.

I feel like I don't do anything anon but thank you for thinking that way about me and liking my blog, I just share what I like and try to keep a positive attitude in this fandom despite everything.

I see some people just complain about everything they see in this fandom like everything has to be under scrutiny.

As I said before I was one of the people who enjoy all the meta and all the discourse in this fandom when I first watch this movie months ago, way before I created this side blog.

I didn't say that everything is bad because I have seen so many good thing and good discussion being brought to light in this fandom, at first it seems like we are trying to share some knowledge amongst each other and make this fandom a richer place without hurting anyone and I was ecstatic by it.

But lately I see that it was not the case anymore, everyone was calling each other out and thinking they were right and using language that means to hurt each other instead of good civil discussion amongst people who like the same thing. I mean why are we here in the first place? It's because of our love for the story, characters and the actors in this movie bring us together here, we care enough to discuss thing and to share things and lost our sleep drawing or writing for this fandom because we adore this movie.

It would be a merrier place if we could spend more times discussing what we like instead of what we hate I think.

Anyway @karanoidandroid is a blessing with her talent, she draws Nicky and Joe so beautifully and we are lucky to have her in this fandom. I know her art since DBH but never actually speak with each other not until TOG. 🤣

And I didn't go to AO3 much, I just read fics when my friends recommended me some because they know my taste and know which fics I would enjoy. Recently I read this crusade fic that I love so much and I left a long review for it and it has Top Joe and Bottom Nicky tagged so you probably will enjoy it too, even though it's wip but the problem has been quite resolved so you won't feel too frustrated by it.

And you know what I also just upload something to AO3 with bottom nicky too but I don't know if up to your need for Bottom Nicky because it's omega verse. Joe is an Alpha king and Nicky is an omega so they have a lot of children together, anyway you can read it here if you wanted 🤣 but please please read all the tags first because I don't think this fic is for everyone.

I will probably upload another story for Joe x Nicky hopefully soon 😅

[pumpkinpaix]

K for the alphabet asks? Also, 100% agree on your N answer. *Takes a bite* Mm, these takes are Very Good. Thanks for sharing your thoughts ❤️

K - What character has your favorite development arc/the best development arc?

answered here, but sure, we’ll do another! I’m going to approach it sideways, because if i really go straight to best or favorite, it’s always very predictable. so I’m going to go with a couple characters whose developments I love, but maybe aren’t the expected choice: wen ning, jin ling, and ouyang zizhen.

wen ning and jin ling for actually very similar reasons: our very first introduction to both of them is quite at odds with their actual characters--wen ning shows up as the terrifying ghost general, undead, vicious, frightening, awe-inspiring. we learn about him both from wei wuxian’s “wen ning? isn’t wen ning already dead?” and the screams of terror from the surrounding cultivators, from Jiang Cheng’s rage--and then you really meet him, and he’s really just. a very sweet young man who happens to have been turned into a weapon.

it’s also like--the moment when he turns into the ghost general, when wei wuxian says, “he was such a timid person in life, the more timid the person, the deeper their wells of rage” (paraphrasing, obviously, i don’t remember the exact wording), and that like. that really gets to me! we never really see it again, but the idea that wen ning actually harbors a deep and violent rage is. A Lot! do i identify? yes lmfao but it also doesn’t change who he is: he’s still kind, he’s still timid, and he still holds a lot of love. UGH. i love wen ning. okay anyways.

jin ling: when we meet him, he’s SO ANNOYING. he’s like! the arrogant asshole bully! we love to see him get his comeuppance! we’re already connecting him with mo ziyuan, with the privileged, cruel, rich kids that feel like they can get away with anything because no one has ever told them no! and then--we realize. and the more time we spend with him, the more we understand where that attitude comes from and how he expresses care and value, and you’re suddenly like oh,,,, my god,,,, ;A; i would die for u jin ling!!! i would die for u!!!!! (fyi, my therapist thinks jin ling is one of the most fascinating characters in mdzs, and he’s got a point!!!) i just. i don’t know! I love that! I love being proven wrong! I love being convinced on characters until im ride or die!! and mdzs does that several times! it’s so good!!

and goodest boy, ouyang zizhen: what I love about him most is honestly like, his purpose as a narrative and thematic device when contrasted with his father. ouyang zizhen is just! such a sweet and kind teenager! sentimental, romantic, just!! likes!!! girls!!!! loves his dad! when he charges into the fray at the second siege like, “dad!! i’ll protect you!!” and his father is so, so afraid that he’s going to lose his son right then?? i don’t know, that moves me because like, sect leader ouyang participated in the murder of the wen remnants, people who were family to someone, who were beloved by someone (in fact, of wen ning, wei wuxian, and lan sizhui, all of whom are present) but he’s not heartless. he’s a person who loves his son, even though he really did do some woof, pretty shitty things in the past. he is not wholly a monster. and his son! his son is good! his son wants to do good! his son is such an encapsulation of like, what a child could grow up to be when not coming of age through trauma. I wrote about it in my longass cql vs mdzs meta here and also my meta on suibian and zidian, but BASICALLY. it matters so much to me that sect leader ouyang raised a young man like ouyang zizhen, and that they love each other, that they’re human, even despite the chilling things we know about sect leader ouyang’s past.

WELL this got kinda long, but HEY. look. why are u following me if not for my sudden, unexpected descents into emotional yelling about side characters!!

and thank you :’) 💛 it’s probably a good idea for me to take a step back sometimes and remember that actually, I have a great time here! but I think I usually refrain from talking about certain things that are actually enormously frustrating in this fandom, and sometimes, the truth is come out: i too, am filled with deep wells of rage.

anyways, in case y’all missed it, the referenced post is here. I also had some more fun responses to N here, if u wanted to read those! :D thank u for playing!!

(alphabet fic asks)

[angel-deux-writes]

Hi Angel! I've been a big fan of yours since HCM, and so I wanted to express my concern for your wellbeing. There was that big break when you took a month or so to finish HCM before posting it in quick succession, in order to not have to deal with the comments. Now, from what you've been writing in the notes to Dorne Rights, it looks like you are experiencing something similar. The selfish fan in me wants you to keep writing and keep posting, but the basic human in me is more worried that (1/2)

you are unhappy. Nothing is worth making yourself unhappy over, particularly not something that’s meant to give you pleasure. A favourite author of mine back in the days of my Spike/Angel obsession had a disclaimer on her stories telling readers to please not leave feedback of any kind, not even constructive criticism, on her fics because she finds them unhelpful. Her comment section was full of chats about various topics in that fandom, rather than her own fiction. Might help. (2/2)

Hello! I really appreciate this message, because you’re right: fanfic writing isn’t good for me.

(lol putting this beneath the cut because it’s way too long)

It’s actually my experience in this fandom that has made me realize that writing in general probably isn’t good for me, but unfortunately I feel a drive to it and can’t seem to stop myself from thinking I’ll one day get published, so that’s a bit of a downer. The truth is that I’m naturally disposed toward thinking that I’m shit, my words are shit, and every thought I’ve ever had is unoriginal and poorly written. It’s always been like that, from the time I wrote my first attempt at fiction at 7 years old to now at 31. It takes a lot for me to share my writing with people. I started writing fic at 14, basically as soon as I discovered that I wasn’t the only person composing stories about Han and Leia in their free time. I’m sure that my fics were horrendous. I give myself a hard time now, but 14 year old me probably deserved it even more. But there were sweet people on the internet who encouraged me (and lied to me) and told me that my stories were good, and that made a huge difference. 

(that and my freshman year english teacher, who was very very cute and earnest and young and made me feel like I could actually be a writer.)

I’ve never been a part of a fandom before. Discourse and meta and long discussions about canon events have never interested me. I’ve said that before, and it remains true! I consume what canon there is, and sometimes I like it, and sometimes I hate it. Sometimes I’m so dissatisfied with it that I need to write something, and so I do. I don’t think I’ve ever written fic for something that I found entirely satisfactory. The extension of my being part of an actual fandom in the past was probably reblogging a few gifsets and recommending it to friends. I’ve just never had that sort of communal experience. This, the J/B fandom, was my first time really getting into it. It’s the first time I’ve ever made friends online that weren’t just frequent commenters on long multichapter fics! It has been exciting and I’m grateful for it! It’s just also probably not good for me. 

It’s just, like, every time I post something, I’m fighting a very loud and very desperate voice in my head that’s saying “you’re shit and you shouldn’t bother”. It’s why I’m so good at writing first drafts of novels but so, so bad at getting past the second. It’s why I usually post fics only until I’ve worked out my frustrations: one or two fics per fandom and then ghosting away forever. It’s very hard to defy that voice and post something anyway, and this fandom experience has taught me that no matter HOW many stories I post, I’m ALWAYS going to have to fight that voice. And it’s gotten actively stronger. “You’re not what this fandom wants” “You’re not good at this” “Everyone’s just being nice” “You’ve overstayed your welcome”. Paying attention, often by accident, to the discourse and the metas only makes it worse, because my brain automatically turns to “well YOU don’t write them like that. That means you’re wrong”. I can tell myself as many times as I want that I myself like many different interpretations of J/B! My brain goes “yeah, but you’re just an idiot who doesn’t know any better. There’s a right way, and you’re not doing it”. 

THIS IS ALL SO DRAMATIC! But it’s just the truth! Every time I post something, it’s against my nature. NO ONE outside of fandom reads my writing! I can count on one hand the number of times I’ve allowed my close friends and family to read things. So while it may seem like, idk, like I should just be able to get over it, negative comments, or even SLIGHTLY critical comments, really hit me hard. For all the positive feedback I get (and I really AM super grateful for it, and it means the world to me), those few critical voices seem louder because they’re agreeing with what I have already known about myself. And so it feels almost like a victory, but a shitty one. “Ha! I was right this whole time! I AM a shit writer, and I’ve for some reason tricked those other people into thinking I’m good!” 

For a long time (much longer than I’ve ever written for any other fandom, obviously), I was able to shove it to the side. The J/B fandom HAS been super good to me, and they HAVE been wonderful about giving me feedback and making me feel welcome and included. But those negative voices are just SO LOUD to me, even though I know logically that they shouldn’t be. 

It would be easy to point to a specific problem and say that my issues will be fixed if only I can address that. I do it CONSTANTLY. Maybe if I stopped tagging other relationships. Maybe if I stopped tagging other characters. Maybe if I tagged my works super specifically. Maybe if I made author’s notes about how I’m a shit writer and people shouldn’t expect things from me. Maybe if I just wrote “THIS STORY IS WRITTEN ALREADY AND IM JUST EDITING AS I GO! PLEASE DONT SUGGEST THINGS!” I just feel like, increasingly, I want fewer and fewer eyes on my fics. It’s the opposite of the problem I thought I would have. But my confidence took a huge hit with HCM, and then I was finally feeling good enough to post Dorne Rights. It was probably a mistake! 

idk, maybe it’s just all the shit that’s going on in the world + in my personal life. Maybe it’s just time. Maybe I’m just running out of inspiration. But the positive voices aren’t loud enough to drown out my own negative self-voice this time, and so I’ve been trying to figure out how to handle it. Part of me wants to delete Dorne Rights with the intention of reworking it and maybe posting it again down the line with fewer tags and a lot more reminders that people can write their own stories if they don’t like mine. Part of me wants to just do a HCM and post it all at once so that I can leave the finished product up (even if I now think the entire thing is garbage). Part of me wants to stop writing fic entirely, at least until the next time I watch something with an ending so bad it fucks me up. I think my solution will probably be a massive step back from fandom for a little while. I’ve been feeling a drive to work on my original stuff, and I should probably lean into that. I would like to still write and post J/B, once I find the inspiration, but I’m tired of feeling like this is a job. I think I got so deeply sunk into this attitude of “I NEED to write and post constantly because these people want me to, and they actually like what I write!!” that I stopped writing things because I wanted to write them and started writing them because I wanted to write things for other people, to make other people happy, and so that they could tell me that I’m not a shit writer at all.

I should make it clear that I do intend to write my JB fic swap thing FOR SURE. I will drag that story out of myself no matter what. But in general it’s probably just healthier for me to not spend so much time On Here especially, and on fic in general.

[gffa]

I feel a lot of pressure to hate on things that a lot of Star Wars fans are vocal about, ie the new trilogy. I totally get why they’re upset, I just feel drained expending my energy on hating along with them. And if they’re hating something I think is okay or that I like, I feel pressured to start hating it. It’s making my fandom experience not very good. Do you have some advice?

Hi!  I feel for you and anyone else in this position, that you feel pressured to hate things that you actually sort of were fine with or maybe even enjoyed.This advice is a lot harder if it’s from friends that you want to continue to hang out with and SW is your connection to each other, but if it’s more of a generalized attitude in fandom that’s making you feel peer pressured into hating things that you don’t want to hate:  You have to stop reading those things.  Unfollow blogs that are making you feel pressured, regardless of whether that’s their intent or not (and it usually isn’t! but that has no bearing on this), because you need to get into a place where you’re happier.Don’t read the negative posts, scroll past them, and instead start working on talking about or reading about the things you love.  Whether that’s something approved of by fandom or something that’s not approved of enjoying, find the people who are having fun or start yelling about happy things in your own space.Make a list of things you loved about [whatever you enjoyed].  Find a fic that deals with it in a positive way, read that, and tell the author how much you appreciated it.  Find the edits of the movie that are beautiful and reblog those.  Browse your own blog every so often, once you’ve collected together things that made you happy.Or even take a step back and find a different fandom for awhile, just to decompress all of this, if you can.  (I’ve done this a lot in the past and it really helps, to fill myself up with something else for awhile, then come back and I’m less concerned with how this fandom HAS to be my ride-or-die fandom, that I HAVE to be in step with all of it, because it’s my whole fannish heart.  Instead, I spread my fannish heart around when I can and then I’m easier to ignore the stuff that frustrates me and embrace the stuff I love.)But mostly just take some steps back from whatever it is that’s disheartening you.  Even if that means unfollowing blogs you otherwise like, that it’s not that you’re deriding them for being salty, but that you need to find your equilibrium again.  And work towards doing things that make you happy just to do them, whether that’s meta or edits or skits or just sinking into some nice, long fic to read!

[iamdeltas]

Yeah I hate how the fandom sometimes treats thirteens touch aversion, like people are allowed to have set boundaries without it being something they have get over, ya know? (Also hated how they treated twelves hug aversion)

It’s very frustrating! And, honestly, I feel like this is how fandom tends to treat touch aversion in general. There’s this irritating tendency to treat it like a ~flaw to be overcome~ when, that’s not how this works? It’s not even a flaw! It’s just a set of boundaries that people may have! Just because it’s not the same as yours doesn’t mean it’s something that ~needs to change~ Speaking of which, I had seen a few comments as such conflating 13′s touch aversion with her emotional constipation and I’ve even seen people outright say things like, “I knew she’d like hugs! She just had to start being less emotionally constipated!” Which! No? That’s not how this works? Someone can be the most emotionally mature person in the world and still dislike being touched! That is very much possible! And yes, a lot of the general fandom reaction to 12′s touch aversion, from what I’ve heard (I wasn’t exactly active in the Doctor Who fandom when his series were airing. I’d kind of fallen off the Doctor Who bandwagon at that point) really doesn’t sound great. Which tbh, seems fairly similar to how Clara seemed to treat his touch aversion in canon, at least IIRC. I really never liked how much she insisted on hugging him even after he consistently protested. :/ Was not a fan. Though, another thing about 13′s touch aversion and the fandom reaction that bugs the fuck out of me is that, if people aren’t acting like 13 is now “cured” from her touch aversion or what-the-fuck-ever, they’re acting like it straight up doesn’t exist. They seem to just act like, IDK, the writers just ~forgot~ to write in hugs for her or something?! As opposed to this being a pretty deliberate writing and acting choice? It’s also just such a bizarre thing to act like a character not wanting to hug is.... bad writing. Sometimes People Don’t Like Hugs, Susan.  And I’ve also seen the obnoxious attitude acting like she was “deprived” of hugs and how dare the fam never hug her, she clearly wants one! And this leads to people saying shit after this recent episode like, “finally she gets the hugs she deserved all this time!” me: did you miss the fact that she initiated those hugs or I think, if anything, this proves that if she wanted hugs in earlier episodes, she would have initiated them. Since she did not, guess what? That means she didn’t want hugs. I also have seen people outright claim that 13 “loves hugs.” Why, because she hugged three people after being stuck in prison for decades? Because she ~has to~ since she’s cheery (or at least that’s what her facade shows) and outgoing? When characters “love hugs,” it’s highly apparent. I mean, just look at Scorpia! Her intro scene literally has her say, “I’m a hugger!” And she hugs people so much! Or look at Kara Danvers, who in the first episode, gives Alex an enthusiastic hug (that cracks her bones, poor Alex), hugs her friends constantly, and, most heartbreakingly, asks the hologram of her mother if she can have a hug. (She also, now that I think about it, calls herself a hugger, I’m pretty sure. Is this just a universal thing with characters and people who love hugs?) So you know, the fact that 13 has hugged, like, 4 times throughout her entire run? Probably a good sign that she does not, in fact, “love hugs.” I feel like part of what contributes to this is that people just expect her to love hugs, based off of her general personality. Which, incidentally, is why I love that she’s so touch averse: it’s not what you’d expect! So that’s another reason this insistence that she much love hugs so irritating. It’s cool that she veers from expectations in that way, and your response is to... just insist that she must adhere to those expectations anyway? How boring.  To be fair, I kind of get it. It’s hard to shake initial expectations. You see someone who’s outgoing and friendly and you expect them to also be very tactile because that’s how these types of characters are usually depicted. I can’t say I haven’t fallen victim to similar assumptions about characters. It took me an embarrassingly long time, for instance, to realize that, to grab an example that I’ve already mentioned, Kara Danvers isn’t actually much of a crier. I expected that she was since she’s so in touch with her emotions and the opposite of stoic and that’s what you typically get from such characters but... that just doesn’t apply to Kara. She barely ever actually cries. So I can see how people might take a while to realize that, no, their original assumption that 13 would be a huge hugger is actually not correct. But it’s been three years, my guy. You can’t just act like she’s a huge hugger when there’s actually no proof for that at all.  All this makes me appreciate people who do recognize that 13 is touch averse. I always love seeing that noted in fic and posts and meta.

[thezolblade]

with all the talk about fandom squicks and triggers and social media content-curation going on, i’m gonna try and get down my tma squicks, to - help organise my thoughts on what i still do & don’t enjoy - help connect with anyone who wants to talk about the things that are common interests without hitting on a squick accidentally (bc i’m feeling like trying to dip my toe in the water of fandom means walking on eggshells in that respect). - behind a read more, avoid the negativity if you like. there’s nothing beyond pg-13 meta though.

tma squicks

- the apocalypse. y’know how people can feel ‘what’s the point?’ about a pyrrhic victory? this isn’t even that. it’s a total defeat. rocks fall everyone dies, or suffers a fate worse than death. all the billions of people in the world, all the children and babies, suffering so thoroughly they don’t even get to function as people anymore, just living ghosts. except a few characters who are still wandering around for now, but we already know from word of god that they’re not going to get a happy ending or accomplish anything. the previous seasons were already horror, but this... feels a lot more pointless and flattens the world they built. i’m curious enough to keep listening, but with less investment i guess.

- ‘fluff’ set in parts of the timeline when the some of characters are hurting people, and other characters are not okay with that, but the ‘fluff’ has them act as if they don’t actually care. (not fix-it fic that actually fixes the problem. not fluff set in au’s where the problem doesn’t apply. not evil characters being ok with being evil together. i’m just talking about stuff that’s specified as canon-compliant, where the characters don’t seem to give a damn, even though they do in canon itself.) e.g. late s4 stuff where rather than commiserating, recuperating and trying to plan out how to deal with their problems, jon and martin are just... happy for jon to keep haunting his current victims so long as he doesn’t add to their number, and have no plans to go back to london to deal with things once it’s safe enough, despite asking basira when that’d be possible in 160. or s4 peter/martin where martin’s ok with peter murdering people, likes him as a person anyway, rather than lying about it.

- s1/2 (or anytime) jon being depicted as someone who doesn’t care about people, rather than as someone who cares deeply for people’s safety even while getting into arguments easily. 

- s1/2 (or anytime) martin being depicted as scared of jon, rather than just frustrated that he can’t impress him or convince him to take better care of himself & get along better with the others.

- the way the tragedy of everything that’s gone wrong supernaturally - the deaths, the apocalypse - feels like the villain getting away with everything because the odds were always stacked overwhelmingly in his favour, not the protagonist seeing the consequences of his tragic flaws. because jon’s made mistakes, and hurt the people around him, but... if he hadn’t made those mistakes, that wouldn’t in and of itself have been enough to avert jonah’s plans. jonah just needed to arrange for avatars to attack jon until he’d been terrorised by everything, while jon was unable to escape. and even if jon had left by blinding himself, jonah would’ve burned through as many archivists as it took. (158 was the only time anyone had a chance of stopping him, and martin only refused bc he didn’t know what was going on and didn’t want to cooperate with evil. that’s... not so much of a flaw that the apocalypse is cathartic as his tragic comeuppance either.)

- jonah, considering all of the above. just. jonah.

- the other pure evil characters most of the time, tbh.

- the uncertainty of not knowing how much of daisy’s past police brutality basira turned a blind eye to, bc the more she knew, the worse her preference for the old daisy & double standard with jon’s hunting.

- jon’s hunting, for that matter. that’s on the list. and the fact that jess is probably in the buried now, forever. (if not there, then somewhere just as awful.)

- interpretations where early-s4 jon completely knew what he was doing, rather than genuinely deceiving himself until he read annabelle’s statement, though a mix of denial, the excuses he’d convinced himself of (which tied into following gertrude’s example to save the world, knowing she’d hurt people too), and the fact he was coerced by an entity in a way that he hadn’t felt before (it was the eye, not the web, and even heavy coercion isn’t the same as being completely forced, but it’s sure not the same as choosing freely either).

- s3 jon/tim where tim doesn’t acknowledge that jon was factually right about some of the things he was afraid of s2, alongside jon acknowledging his own mistakes. otherwise tim’s s2-3 attitude is too much ‘i hate you for being wrong, i hate you for being right, i hate you for being genuinely scared of me, and i hate you for trying to rebuild this bridge now you’re not scared of me anymore’.

- the idea of s1 jon/tim, considering tim was being all false-cheerful and mildly sarcastic with the ‘boss’ nickname while really thinking he shouldn’t have gotten the job. all while jon sincerely valued tim’s opinion as an academic. sure, tim was right to look down on jon’s abilities, but that situation makes me wince. a fluffy ship needs more respect, a dark ship needs less goodwill, a slowburn needs the characters to move past that kind of thing somehow.

...all in what, what that leaves as content that’s not squicky, that i still enjoy:

- Total AU’s, where any ship can be set up in ways that avoid the elements above.

- Pre-apocalypse canon-divergent fic - happy or sad ending for the characters involved, so long as the world doesn’t end for everyone.

- Time travel fix it (in a crackfic way).

- Early-seasons gen/humour/character study canon-compliant fic.

- Cracky humour fic.

[raging-violets]

Fictober 2019 // Day 30 // By: Rhuben

Prompt Number: #30, “I’m with you, you know that.” Fandom: The Flash (DC TV) Rating: E Warning: None A/N: This will kind of, sort of, be a series based on the friendship around Eddie Thawne and my OC, Averey Moore. If I like some parts enough, I might even re-work them into my fics.

"I think next time," Averey said, using a wet napkin to wipe flour off of her shirt, "we should just buy our own cupcakes."

Eddie laughed, licking a glob of icing from his finger before burying it into a napkin. "I mastered making cupcakes a long time ago," he said, lowering himself onto the stool behind the island in his kitchen. He snorted. "My bathroom scale could tell you that."

"Yeah, add half a kilo for each bloody cookie," Averey replied. She used a breath of air to blow her hair out of her face, smiling in amusement. She glanced up at him over the top of the frames of her glasses, her smile widening when he rolled his eyes.

"I'd laugh," Eddie said flatly, shaking his head, "but it's true." Averey's lips twitched. He used the sleeve of his shirt to scratch at his nose. "Doughnuts, too. There were too many bakeries on my way to school." Sighing, he used his pinky nail to scratch at his eyebrow. "And, they don't talk back, so…"

"Comfort foods, hey," Averey said, reaching for a cooling cupcake. Setting it down in front of her, she grabbed the container of frosting closest to her, scraping a glob of frosting out with the knife sticking out of it.

"That," Eddie agreed, "and you work up an appetite running away from a beat down." He leaned forward on the stool, pressing his elbows onto the countertop. "Between that and kickboxing, it was no wonder I slimmed down."

"Well, you have my permission to pig out tonight, yeah?" Averey said, taking a large bite out of the cupcake she had just finished frosting. Chewing, she lifted it into the air. "Cheers, yeah? Here's to another year of being mates."

"And here's to another year of premature gray hair," Eddie said and Averey gave a mock bow, "thanks to you."

"I'll cheers to that," Averey laughed, tapping her cupcake against his. She took another bite, using her free hand to wipe the frosting off the tip of her nose. "I make your life more exciting, admit it."

Eddie closed his eyes as he took the bite of his cupcake. The rush of sugar to his system instantly made his jaw tighten in a good way. He licked the frosting from his lips and let the tang of cream cheese in the frosting increase the work of his salivary glands. It was just the right amount of tanginess that cut through the sweetness. His bite of cupcake crumbled in his mouth, sending the taste and smell of vanilla over his tongue and up his nose, the creaminess of the frosting mixing perfectly with the crumbling cake.

For the longest time, it was the only comfort he could find during the day. Coming home to a big, empty house may have sounded like a dream many kids, but not for him. Nor for many of the children living in Keystone City. Being the son of a senator, it wasn't surprising for Eddie to find his parents out late at events and emergency meetings. For his classmates, late nights for parents at the factories weren't out of the ordinary. At least until they were shut down by his father.

Then for Eddie, a quick escape after school through a side door, never taking the same route home twice, was a normal occurrence for him. Ducking into the nearest shop was his only reprieve, getting enough time to catch his breath and plot another route home. Owners of the stores would attempt to cheer him up with some baked goods, which did always work, but couldn't fill that hole of loneliness inside of him.

If he were being honest, that hole was still there as he grew older. Friends weren't easy for him to come by. Keeping them was something he hadn't exactly mastered even at the age he was at now. He still couldn't even believe he had become engaged to someone as great as Iris West. A girl like her would never have given him a second look if they had gone through school together. The fat kid never got the popular girl. And, yes, while he still didn't end up with a girl like her, it had made that hole inside him a tad bit smaller.

Being around her had opened himself up to lots of different people. He had Joe as his partner, and arguably one of the closest people to him in his life. He still had Iris, and through her, he met Barry. While some friction between them was there, they had great respect for each other as a member of the police department, and as the hero Central City needed. Through the Flash he met Cisco and Caitlin who did so much more work for the city without any credit for it.

And then there was Averey. He never thought an arrest would up with him meeting the best friend he ever had. While she could get under his skin with her rash decisions and laid back attitude, she was also the one who knew the most about him to get him to open up about what was bothering him, and knew how to pull a laugh out of him even in the most frustrating of times. Being an ocular metahuman, she could pinpoint a change in him faster than even he could notice the change in himself. While it could be unnerving, it was also nice to know that someone knew him that well.

"You keep things interesting," he finally managed, blinking open his eyes. He met a lot of different people through his line of work but could say for 100% that he hadn't met anyone like her.

"Right," Averey said, waving her hand in the air, "I'll take that as a compliment."

"You should," Eddie agreed. "God knows life would be different without you."

"Reckon the word you're looking for is 'boring', yeah?" Averey grinned. Eddie rolled her eyes. "Chasing down gang members, getting the call for the next meta encounter you have to investigate."

"Still don't understand how you've managed to drag me into all of that," Eddie said with a shake of his head, "but I have to admit, I don't think I'd be able to handle all of this without you."

"Feeling's mutual, mate," Averey said, peeling off a chunk of the cupcake, sticking it on her tongue. She twisted her mouth to the side. "You've had to put up a lot with me when you didn't have to."

"Of course I did," Eddie corrected her. "I'm with you, you know that."

"Always, mate." Averey lifted her hand, reaching across the table. Eddie slapped her palm with a forward swing of his hand, hitting the back of her hand on the back swing, and then they bumped fists. "Cheers."

"So, think you'll stick with me long enough to help clean up?"

Averey scoffed. "No way." Eddie's eyes went half-lidded as he gave her a pointed look. She widened hers in return, looking even bigger behind her glasses. "It's your apartment, mate."

"You wanted cupcakes."

"I don't even have the cash to pay for bloody gum right now." A challenging look came to her face as she looked over all the baked goods. "Bet I can eat more. Loser has to clean up."

Eddie pulled his mouth to the side. "You're really underestimating me."

"I've got speedster's metabolism, hey." She made a face. "Kind of." One blood transfusion and her healing factor had been upped. Even her appetite had increased, but it was nowhere near as fast as Barry's.

"All right, you're on." He pointed across the room with both hands. "Dish soap is over there, and I expect the dishes to be sparkling."

[questionablygourmet]

I Like This Show A Normal Amount: Will Graham As Autistic Representation

In a previous meta post about Will, I briefly alluded to my appreciation for Will as good autistic representation, and for Free-For-All Friday, @tin-can-paladin prompted me to do as I’d said I might and write a Thing about that.  (Hopefully today is the day I actually get this post finished and up!)  So here we go.

First of all, this post will be starting from the premise that Will is an autistic character.  I don’t particularly care if Hugh’s said he’s not; whether or not he meant to, he and Bryan gave us an autistic-coded character and I reserve the right to be delighted about it!  (Actually, that’s not quite true - I do care, in the sense that I wish he hadn’t said that, because acknowledging portrayals of characters on the spectrum that aren’t a walking fucking stereotype played for lulz *cough BBT COUGH* or as a tragedy inflicted upon their neurotypical family members as being on the spectrum is Important.  But whatever.)

This post will address aspects of Will as a character, but also to an extent how he’s handled in the wider context of the show, and why that matters.

Agency

This was my primary focus on that previous Will meta post, but in context of autistic representation, I think it’s an important thing to highlight in this post as well: Will Graham is a whole-ass adult in control of his actions even when other characters don’t think so (see: Alana, Jack, et al in late season 1) or are actively trying to subvert that (see: Hannibal, You Asshole).

Autistic characters in various media are all-too-frequently infantilized and handled as though their environment/circumstances completely dictate their behavior.  Will both implicitly and explicitly (“You can’t reduce me to a set of influences” - ironically for a later part of this post, the next thing he says mentions behaviorism), resoundingly rejects this, and I love that as part of his narrative in general but also as an autistic character in particular.  

Empathy

This one’s gonna be a doozy.  There’s a lot to talk about here that all generally falls under the heading of “autism and empathy,” so I’ll do my best to stay organized.

First, the simplest: He cares!  So!  Deeply!  And complexly!  And we know that throughout the show!

Frankly, this in particular massively exacerbates my irritated wish that the creators would explicitly acknowledge him as autistic because holy shit the stereotypes he combats with this.  Autistic people in the real world have widely varied, diverse relationships with empathy and compassion (which are different things, and I have some beefs with the way the show uses the word “empathy,” but that’s a digression and this is already going to be a long post), but media largely erases this, conflating difficulties with normative, neurotypical-passing social behavior with inability to empathize, and/or display compassion, and/or even feel emotions (FFS).  

There’s a related point about “normative-passing social behavior” that I want to expand on a bit, here: we see a lot of profound differences in demeanor for Will over the course of the show, and that’s something I’ve seen interpreted as manipulation sometimes when it really isn’t.  (Not to say Will is not manipulative/capable of being manipulative, because he is, very!  But not everything calculated is necessarily manipulative, and I see the two conflated a lot and that annoys me.)  Will has, to my eyes, four basic social “modes.”  

I’m Dealing With Most People With Whom I Have No Particular Antipathy Or Affection - Aloof, and either standoffish or polite depending on how his boundaries are being treated.  He’s not particularly interested in making people comfortable when they’re making him uncomfortable (and being a white dude generally enables him to take this attitude without big repercussions), and people frequently make him uncomfortable.

I’m Dealing With Someone I Perceive As Vulnerable - Exaggeratedly calm, kind, careful.  He’s trying to connect and provide comfort and support.  He’s minding his every move and word because he doesn’t want to cause harm incidentally.  (Abigail, Peter, Walter, etc. and to some extent, Margot, though with her it’s mixed with other attitudes.)

I’m Dealing With An Enemy - This is where the manipulativeness (and even, particularly in the cases of Bedelia and Hannibal, cruelty) comes in.  He’s minding his every move and word because he wants to elicit a specific response from the person he’s interacting with.  (This comes into play with Jack and Alana at various points even though they are rarely full enemies.)

I’m Dealing With A Trusted Friend - Has neither the deliberation of 2-3 nor quite the standoffishness of 1.  He’s neither projecting an image appropriate to a specific kind of fraught social situation, nor actively trying to deflect attention and interaction.  In my opinion we really only see this with Hannibal (in season 1 and then with flashes of it in 2 and 3) and Molly, though he gets close in a handful of moments with Alana, Beverly, and Jack.  

All these modes deal with a) to what extent he is acting, and b) why he’s acting.  And I love that we get to see this breadth of social interaction modes from him, because that is an accurate and sensitive portrayal of an autistic adult, reflecting the often-dramatic differences in “difficulty setting” of an interaction - how and to what extent are we expected to (or otherwise have a need to) mimic neurotypical mannerisms?  What are the stakes of the situation?  These are explicit considerations for a lot of autistic people, and Will demonstrates that vividly throughout the series.

Another way in which empathy and social interaction come into play in terms of autistic representation is that Will can and does form strong social bonds - not very often, because the way most other adults treat him isn’t conducive to it, but with people who display acceptance/a lack of judgment for his non-neurotypical reactions and behaviors, and importantly, who don’t treat him as Other for the way he can reconstruct crime scenes, we see that can form very strong bonds.  Hannibal is obviously the prime example of this, but also Molly, and to a much lesser extent, Alana and Margot.  (Though Jack refers to him as a friend and they have some friendly interactions, their bond is not a strong one and not at all marked by the kind of humanizing acceptance it takes to get truly close to Will.)  People who accept who he is, and who are neither threatened by his skills nor dependent on them.

Finally, in this section, let’s look at the crime scene reconstructions and “getting inside killers’ heads” bit.  

I have complex feelings about this aspect of the show, or more precisely, how other characters talk about his reconstructions and serial killer profiling - they (even Hannibal, to an extent) talk about it in mystifying terms, and I thoroughly dislike the term “empathy disorder” that gets thrown around so much in seasons 1-2 to explain what he does.  Will is apt to testily correct people that he just interprets the evidence, and that is exactly what he is doing.  His vivid imagination coupled with years of active study of criminal psychology allow him to take that interpretation a lot farther than anyone else would, and sometimes make intuitive leaps that the other characters can’t follow.  But it’s clear that this intuition is founded in concrete evidence, as we frequently see him stymied when he doesn’t quite have enough of it, much to the frustration of Jack, who is particularly shitty about treating him like an oracle.  

I like that Will gets to stick up for himself and correct people on several occasions, but I wish the ableism and the Othering was less pervasive amongst the other characters because it makes me want to slap them.  I find that I really appreciate how most of the fic I’ve read since entering the fandom thoroughly and often explicitly rejects the pseudo-magical divination and/or Crazy Person With Magic Brain angle.

Perspective

There was something I was reaching at that was eluding me in my first attempt at this draft, and then I ran into an excellent article about writing autistic characters that suddenly and thoroughly solidified it for me.  It’s really brilliant; it discusses and illustrates the strong difference between a behavioristic (see previous reference) approach to characterization and a humanizing one.  Behavioristic analyses divorce themselves from the actual mindset and experience of the subject, whereas humanizing portrayals display the subjective experience of the person who is perhaps behaving in a way other people may find confusing.  

Since Will is the main point of view character in the show, we get front-row seats to his subjective experience and can therefore more properly empathize with him.  An abnormal reaction to an abnormal situation is normal behavior.  The behavior that Jack and various other characters are exasperated, impatient, and/or unnerved over all looks pretty reasonable when we know how Will is experiencing the crime scene, or are seeing his nightmares and hallucinations along with him!  And while the nightmares and hallucinations in season 1 are a matter of encephalitis and trauma rather than neurotype, it still matters that we’re led to understand something of what he goes through, from his own perspective rather than an outside one.  

It’s incredibly necessary emotional context moving forward in the show, giving us an autistic character who is flawed but deeply human and whose darkness we can understand.