#Bruce and Clark don't kill for different reasons

[evilwickedme]

Somebody actually just reblogged my post and said I'm confusing superman for batman cause I said superman refuses to kill. Motherfucker, show me the panels. Give me a fucking source. Give me an issue number where superman kills. Wonder Woman killing is literally a source of major tension between her and BOTH batman and superman. I know my fucking shit

[lunamugetsu]

The CIA is trying to kill Danny

Now hear me out.

I stumbled upon this prompt idea where somebody wrote that they want to see a story where the CIA is trying to kill Clark Kent (not Superman, reporter Clark Kent), the reason is because that Clark Kent is a very good reporter. And everybody knows that a mark of a good reporter is that they die of natural causes, with bullets in their head. So that story would have centered around the CIA trying to kill Clark Kent and having no idea on how Clark Kent is still alive after the multiple attempts on his life.

Now this got me thinking.

In an AU where Danny is interning or working at the Daily Planet, probably under Clark or Lois.(you choose) And Danny is a really good reporter, his ghost powers help him gather information undetected. He's exposing corporations left and right, all ranging from either illegal animal experimentation, environmental pollution, horrible working conditions, toss in a couple of sleazy terrible rich people. So while all of his stuff is getting published and the govt is going, "we gotta stop that reporter." And proceed to constantly try to end this kid's life with no result. They try to poison food, Danny grew up eating radioactive food, if anything the poison is just added seasoning. They try to set up his place on fire, Danny's just conveniently not there. They try to have people tail him but they can't because Danny just disappears whenever he turns a corner.

And layers could be added to this, like Danny's just talking to Clark at work (y'know water cooler talk) and when Danny brings up all of these strange things happening to him like "people following him, the elevator at his place just conveniently broke down and crashed into the ground around the time he would have left for work, or how his usual food orders look a bit different than what they normally look like and they taste slightly different." And Clark is hearing all of this and is going "wait a minute!" and there's a scene of Clark walking with Danny as the kid is waiting for his uber and when the car pulls up. Clark uses his x-ray vision and spots the driver sporting guns, knives, poison gas (whatever CIA agents use for assassinations, I don't know) and just goes "Hey Danny did I ever take you to my favorite diner. No? GREAT! Let's go now!" and he just immediately drags Danny away from the murder car. And from that point on, Clark is taken it upon himself to stop all of the assassination attempts on Danny because he believes that Danny is a fragile young human being.

OR

This could be set in Gotham

And Danny is just exposing all of elites of Gotham, including Gotham's rogues and all of that song and dance. Which then leads him to be targeted by the Court of OWLS! Danny in this scenario would be friends with Tim, because they go to the same coffee shop and order the espresso on steroids drink. Danny tells him all of the stuff that's been happening to him and Tim goes "oh shit." In which he then tells the batsiblings. They all band together to protect Danny because he is a normal human being. (said nobody ever) So Danny becomes unofficially adopted by them. They don't tell Bruce about this because then they'll have to come to terms that they are just like him because they just took in a black haired blue eyed kid into their family.

[fantastic-nonsense]

It's immensely frustrating because the more we see of Absolute Wonder Woman, the less excited I am for it. It's a cool idea in theory (witch warrior raised in Hell becomes Wonder Woman), and the art looks fantastic. I just don't see how this is a story we should be seeing with Diana.

Absolute Superman and Absolute Batman are clearly working in conversation with their characters: Absolute Batman is "what if Bruce's parents were killed but he wasn't rich?" and Absolute Superman is yet another "mythos update for the modern era"+"what if Clark wasn't raised by the Kents?" AU. But unlike Bruce (who can reasonably still be recognizably both Bruce and Batman without his money), Clark (who still has Krypton and the experience of growing up as an alien on Earth regardless of where and who he's raised by), and every other Wonderfam character (where if you take away the Amazons, there's still something to build off of), Diana does not and cannot exist without the Amazons...so taking that away from her just makes this feel like a "Diana-in-name-only" story instead of an interesting exploration of what Diana might be like if she'd been raised differently than she was in canon.

It just seems weird that DC has chosen this particular story for the Absolute Universe's Diana when it seems like a story that would be better for, say, a world without Diana as Wonder Woman at all. After all, Absolute Flash is about a teenage Wally becoming Flash in a world without Barry. Absolute Green Lantern is a first contact story starring Jo Mullein. Why are we not getting that for the Wonderfam if DC is intent on talking about a "last Amazon" Wonder Woman who wasn't raised by them?

Why is Absolute Wonder Woman not a story about a world where the Anti-Monitor or Titans of Myth successfully kidnapped Donna and raised her in Hell for Dark Angel purposes, or a world where Circe and Ares let Lyta's Aunt Hecate raise her, or a world where Cassie didn't discover she was a demigoddess until the Amazons had been wiped out, or a world where Child!Yara survives the destruction of the Amazons by virtue of being raised in Idaho Hell, or even a world where Artemis became Queen of Hell long before Requiem? The premise here just doesn't feel like it suits Diana, even an Elseworlds Diana. Maybe I'll be proven wrong. But I'm getting increasingly skeptical the more information we get about it.

[frownyalfred]

All the “Bruce must’ve killed in the LoA” HCs make him and Clark moving on after his resurrection even more interesting, don’t they? I’ve seen, a bunch of times, Clark going “But you wouldn’t have done it”, and sure, maybe he wouldn’t have - but that’s Clark saying it based on the Batman he knows about, Batman who doesn’t kill, and who was - how shall I phrase this - impressively fucked up in the head back then. (I think? Haven’t watched that movie.)

Imagine how much worse that feels to that Bruce, who knows how well prepared he was AND knows he’s 100% capable of looking a person in the eye and killing them, even when they’re not a threat to him, personally, and when he hasn’t spent who knows how long mentally dehumanising them, maybe, too?

(Or imagine Clark, years later, learning about all of this and realising - oh, fuck, he WOULD probably have killed me. And it’s weird - they’re past this, and he knew, in the abstract, that Bruce might’ve, but. It’s different, knowing your best friend today might’ve killed you back then, or knowing the best friend you trust with your life every day is a trained assassin and the only reason his well-researched plan to murder you didn’t succeed is basically chance.)

(That one also has a nice potential for Bruce feeling awkward or guilty because he assumes Clark will be disgusted or scared or shocked, but Clark isn’t. Neither of them communicate on account of that would end the story immediately.)

That's a good point. I don't think there's a lot of evidence at least on screen during BVS that Bruce has never killed before or is uncomfortable with the idea of killing. That decision obviously got a lot of flak from people who insisted Batfleck was completely OOC, but it's an interesting thing to think about. The "Killed with the LoA" hc makes a lot of sense in BVS, actually. He has a rule and he breaks it, or comes close to breaking it, and it seems natural because the rule is in place for a reason, not as some nebulous moral stand. It's literally bathed in blood.

What saved Clark from being killed, as we see, is that Bruce remembers his humanity, his connection to his own family, and pulls back. But we don't see him hesitate before that moment. He's fine with hunting Clark down as long as he doesn't view him as fully human or fully deserving of humanity. That's a very interesting schema to view people through/by -- it absolutely sounds like something the LoA would teach. That people who do evil, who commit atrocities are no longer deserving of life or mercy. And that taking them out isn't the same as killing someone innocent.

[highlordofkrypton]

I'm not into comics that much but why do Batman and Superman beef with each other? Like if you two don't kiss each other right now instead of fighting-

Like fuck beating the other to a pulp, just fuck each other already😑

Hi!

It really depends on what media you're following. They don't actually hate each other except in specific works. They're best friends, colleagues and at the very least, consider each other family. Even with the variety of universes in comics, Batman and Superman hating each other is very rare and in specific circumstances with reasons behind it.

Long story short: they don't (beef). They disagree and argue, sure. They're rivals, but in a manner that conveys the utmost respect for one another. Their friendship can turn toxic, too, but it's never out of hate.

Yes, there is initial friction when they start working together. Both come with a different set of values and methods to uphold justice, which is what makes their friendship so compelling. After everything, even when they don't see eye to eye, they support one another and they are there for one another. They show deep compassion and understanding for one another, even without necessarily speaking. Batman is highly observant, and Superman is endlessly compassionate.

I'm too tired to find the examples right now, but a couple of bullet points:

Batman is Superman's hero - Superman has unwavering faith in Batman even if his plans are batshit crazy. I can't find the panels rn, but there was even an arc where Batman had a plan that involved Clark slowly killing himself for a 1% chance (or something ridic like that) of saving the universe. It was horrible, but Clark trusted him no matter what.

When Bruce got engaged with Selina, there was an entire sidestory where they went on a double date with Clark and Lois, and both men went into great depth of why they admire one another and how important they are to each other. The respect between them is immeasurable.

Batman's first Robin (Dick Grayson) was a huge Superman fan, and Superman was an important part of his life. To the point that once he stopped being Robin and became Nightwing, his hero name 'Nightwing' actually comes from a Kryptonian story Superman told him.

Both Superman and Batman's respective families are closely knit, each 'bat' has a 'super' that is associated with them, either on a team with them or as friends. If they hated each other, I don't think their families would be this close-knit.

Superman knows the sound of Bruce's heartbeat and listens for it often.

Batman has a voice tone, or grunts, that is reserved for Clark only. Fun fact, the JL unanimously agrees that Clark is the best at doing the Batman voice.

They founded the Justice League together, along with Wonder Woman and other team variations (usually with the Flash and the Green Lantern).

Even in AUs where they hate each other, or they've grown apart, they still respect one another.

They have multiple comic runs as a duo/partners: World's Finest and Superman/Batman.

In one of the runs above, Superman's cousin crashes to earth and both Batman and Superman become parental figures and argue about raising her until Wonder Woman intervenes. Again, they disagree, but it was more on execution of integrating Kara onto earth.

Anyway, the idea that these heroes hate each other isn't really, at least in my experience with other comic fans, common? Mass media (such as films and video games) has a weird attachment to turning Superman into a villain to fight the allegations that he's boring, but he's actually a compelling character if you (general you, me @ the WB execs.) can get past the weird power-obsession and enjoy characters for their depth.

That said, while I do ship superbats, I have a deep appreciation for the women in their lives, especially Selina (who is able to recognize her feelings for Bruce and how they may not be good for one another) and Lois (who is such a fierce character on her own). They add so much to Batman and Superman respectively, so I whenever I talk about Superman and Batman, I make sure to mention this too.

It's important to me, especially in this ship to emphasize that it's not just about kissing the pain away, but understanding the depth and the history that comes with this relationship. Also, not erasing women for the sake of the ship, too.

Final disclaimer: comics have so many different versions, timelines and resets that someone can easily swoop in and prove me wrong, so please take everything above as my way of enjoying the comics.

If I have the energy, I will try to find the panels, but I am so tired 😭

[punkeropercyjackson]

Jason Todd's relathionship in my DC self-insert's verse for his birthday because i'd feel bad not making a post for him

Dick:They were close during the Robin and Discowing days but Dick dosen't take his shit as Red Hood so that allows them to actually repair their relathionship since Jason needs to not be coddled and Dick needs to be himself

Tim:Bros do NOT along but they do love eachother!!Just....less than they love literally everybody else lmao

Cass:Jason's stopped killing(with the exceptions of fascists and abusers)so they slowly settled into getting along for Stephanie's sake and now their relathionship is pretty good.They go out for Batburger and Dairy Super bi-monthly and Cass is the (Bat)man in charge

Duke:THEY'RE SO BROTHERS SOULMATES BY CHOICE IN EVERY UNIVERSE!!!!!!!!Duke is the 5th Robin and was officially adopted by Bruce when he was 11 and his Year One went well but then he got into a fight with him that scared him so badly he ran away in the dead of night and was found by Jason as the kickstarter to Rhato volume 2.There's official 18 Outlaws with a subset called The Kid Outlaws so he has friends his own age(including black friends!!)but Jason's the Outlaw he's closest to and Jason earned it by working his ass off to be his number one bro so Duke did his best to return the favor.Duke also stopped the N52 from happening with his powers and by in every universe and by choice,i mean fate is stacked against them but there's tons of Duke and Jason Variants across the DCverse who're just as connected as them

Stephanie:Transmasc4transfem found siblings fr fr.Stephanie is the fabled female-coded Jason Todd but actually and she's black like him(jamaican-korean to his afro-dominican)and they were both mentored and caretaken by Talia as Robin so that gives them even more reasons to be close on top of all their personality similarities and poor kid solidarity.They met during Batgirl 2009(66 issues)but didn't interact much until No Laws,Just Us(90s Young Justice,which Stephanie is a member of/The Cooler Rhato crossover mini)

Damian:Him and Stephanie are just a scrich behind Duke on 'Batkids Jason is closest to' and met when they were both sneaking into Summer's apartment at the same time during The Bird and The Dragon(Summer and Damian mini).They were forced not to fight by him and became close as time passed on and their size difference is frequently used for comedic gags,such as Damian sitting on Jason's shoulder to reach his food.Jason,Summer,Stephanie and Damian form up the 'Dead Sidekicks Force' as a moniker and a full on team title in an au run

Bruce:Very bittersweet as Jason decided to not move back to Gotham specifically to keep away from him for his own sake and bluntly told him that to his hurt but he understood where he was coming from so he let him go.They don't cut ties though,he still visits on holidays and say 'I love you' since they do and nothing could ever change that

Talia:They were intergenerational friends and that naturally led to them viewing eachother as mom and son so post-Lost Days,Talia manages to legally adopt Jason and he calls her 'Mamí'.Afrolatino/Brown cultural sharing abound because transracial adoption is beautiful and show helps out and even stays with The Outlaws sometimes from Taliacorp(reinvented Lexcorp,she took it over and turned it into a solarpunk chain in her own run)and in The Fortress,their base

Eddie:Childhood besties who got to see eachother regularly thanks to the inclusion of Summer,who's half Kryptofang(kryptonian dragon with the addition of telepathy),who flew himself and his two best friends to and inbetween Gotham,Metropolis and Hollywood with his wings.Eddie was Jason's bi awakening too,at 13 and them and Rose are the og Outlaws Trinity while them and Summer were The Magic Trio

Clark,Lois and Jon:Jason used to babysit Jon and grew up around Clark and Lois due to being best friends with the eldest Superkid(Summer)so they think of him as another kid of their's and nicknamed him 'Argonauta' and 'Curita' respectively because of his namesake.Obviously things were strained as of/post Utrh but they patched things up and he lives in Metropolis post-Rhato so he's kinda impossible to avoid(and vice versa!).Jon however never thought of him negatively due to his youth and they're eternally brotherisms

Rose:Instead of the weird vague ex-dating history we haven't expansion on in over a decade since it was established,Rose is SUMMER'S ex-girlfriend from his teenage dirtbag years and her and Jason are bitchy goth besties and supportive of eachother in everything no hesitation(even if the thing is bad and i mean for them,not vingilanteism)

Kyle:Another ex from Summer's sweet sixteen and kryptonian dancing queen(sorry LMFAO)days and he's been a Green Lantern since he was a teenager not for Jason's sake but because i think it makes him all the more interesting and tragic.Their dynamic is pretty much the same as in canon but longlasting and developed and explicitly attraction.Latino4Latino Jaykyle=The only valid Jaykyle

Artemis:Also starts off as a teenager in her debut for the same reasons as Kyle and her and Jason are again canon accurate because Outlaw!Artemis(which Kyle also is!!)was canon Rhato's only w but ambigious on wether it's romantic or platonic to the point of in-universe confusion from them so they settle on queerplatonic and find it fits and Jaysummtemis as in Jaysumm + qpp Jaytemis + Summtemis is real if you want it to be(*Jason voice*I love tall women)

Thad:That's his dad you bitch /ref /lh.Thad is one of the aformentioned Kid Outlaws and the Flashfam is black/white mixed because Candice Patton Iris >>>>>>>>>>>> and he has the relathionship with Jason people want from him and Mia but well-written and respectful of both characters.Goth punk audhd grumps duo!!

Raven:At the request and brilliant writing of my lil bro @bigblackeyesbitch,ressurected Raven is an Outlaw and they bounce off eachother comically even when she started off as an arc villain and are another m/f Outlaws qpp

Tam:Tam's an honorary Outlaw because my lil sib @insomniac-jay added her to one of my post's and it inspired me to add her to the cast to make up for her Red Robin 2009 fridging.Her and Jason are pretty much honorary siblings like we are🥰

Kory:Robin!Jason was a huge Starfire fanboy(and not a Wonder Woman fanboy because that hc's ooc and performative asf)so he freaked out when they met in a good way and Kory was flattered and amused and kept him as her lil cat.Jason is a Dickkory stan and says fuck Dickb*bs btw

[that-sea-sponge]

Batfamily VS Superman (my take)

So, I've fallen into writing Batfam fanfic of all sorts. Ships I've never even conceived of, but the family is FUN. Every once in a while I get a question about why I write Superman to be such an asshole. To be clear, I don't hate Clark or Superman. I adore the character whose hero fantasy is saving the whole world. I give the characters I like the most the most shit.

Superman is forced to have a global perspective because the man is basically a god. Nothing he does is small, he's incapable of being small. He would kill people if he ever became super hyper focused on one person or purpose. This should, by design, put him in direct opposition to the people whose job, specialty, and purpose in life is to be small - the Batfam. Even when they want the same things, they want it for different reasons and most of the time they reach a consensus.

The thing is, right, Clark would gladly die to save the world. He has died to save the world. That's about the only way he can die. Bruce or Dick or Jay would die to save just one guy they've never met and they're lucky they don't do it accidentally on any given night. There's a world of difference there and I love it when writers are able to play with it. So, yeah, my Supes is kind of arrogant and kinda rigid when others have to be more versatile and open to accepting new ideas. The world needs Superman, but it also needs little Damian Wayne tying up muggers before curfew because there are exams in the morning. Maybe it needs Damian a little tiny bit more because kids grow up wanting to be Superman but they already ARE Robin -they just might not know it yet.

[discocandles]

I know I'm not the first person to say this but if Steve harrington is any popular superhero, he's Batman, right?

Like yes there's the fun shit like haha nail bat, Batman. Both are rich boys who take in a crazy amount of children like it's their favorite hobby, both have a bitchy, playboy personas which they use to keep people from looking too deep, because they have to be that hollow, vapid, and bullshit. Big house, no parents?

I know that it isn't exact given Steve's parents are alive(presumably), but I know for a fact i'm not crazy here. Both guys live in luxury, but for some reason or another, their parents are gone. And the only thing they've left behind is their obscene amounts of riches. Like that makes up for having your parents in your life. It kinda left both of them with this anger that they have utilized, sometimes against other people, and always when they fight legitimate threats. And overall they try to be a good person even if they often tend to be haunted by their mistakes.

If you want to get a little meta with it, both work with a character who was originally planned as a love interest for them but is now canonically a lesbian because it makes their characters more compelling. Though Steve and Robin are on far better terms than Bruce and Kate are(doesn't take much for that. iykyk)

Also they have a partner in crime(read:fighting) named Robin if that counts for anything. Sometimes more than one for Bruce but eh. The guy's been around for 85, almost 86 years now, compared to Steve who's been around for like 7. Im taking liberties here.

Speaking of the role of Robin, trying to fit the party into the batfamily is a task and a half. Like I guess Dustin would have to be dick and max could work as Steph, but would that make Lucas Tim? Suzie could be Babs, that would make sense. Wait, am I making mike jason? It's a mess and my brain is on fire. The only ones i feel a little bit confident about is that Erica would be Damian, el would be cassie and Will would be Duke. Before you ask, no I don't know how Nancy, Jonathan, Alfred, or the other adults would fit in here but I have a side tangent to entertain y'all with instead.

Yes, I do think that this would make eddie Superman. Yes I think it fits quite well.

Listen, from what I do know of Eddie's backstory(I have not read flight of Icarus), it could be matched with Clark's. Boy is sent away from parents to live somewhere else and is taking in by someone who becomes their parent(s) wholeheartedly, no matter the fact he is different from the other kids. And then when they try to live their life as best they can with those differences. Something happens that gets a while city's population looking at them, and a notable member of the community wanting them killed or arrested because of how "dangerous he is".

Listen even if I'm being a little conspiracy board-esque about eddie as clark kent, the parallels of Jason Carver and Lex Luthor are plain as day. Jason is more of a religious bigot compared to Lex's capitalist xenophobia, but these two green and white bitch-asses mirror each other. Also the religious imagery for both Eddie and Superman is off the fucking charts(like Eddie is seen as a demon by the mobs and Superman is seen as a god. And both are feared for it)

I can talk more about this, but I'm already scared that I have said too much.

[gffa]

"she's trying to stop more innocent people from being killed by offering a different path. She's taking a harm reduction path as much as she can. Yeah, they're going to make mistakes, but if she can still reduce those mistakes, isn't it worth trying? Or is one mistake enough that she should never try any other path ever again, even though it means they'll immediately go back to killing lots of innocent people?"

chiming in to say i think the problem with this view is that, as Jason points out, she has ZERO actual control over the people she's ostensibly "employing". she can have all the good intentions to reduce harm she wants, but acting like good vibes and promises are enough to keep things from ever getting out of hand is practically on "positive thinking cures bipolar disorder" levels of oversight (note: i'd actually finished this post and was about to hit ask when i realized how on the nose that comparison is considering scarecrow is fucking with this plan. gonna leave it.) there have to be some fire safety measures here, and her repeatedly insisting they aren't necessary and she's totally got everything handled is ultimately going to hurt the people she was trying to save when the building burns.

which, i agree with you that she's absolutely smarter than this, and it drives me up the wall that they keep having her double down on it.

Yeah, I feel like there's a couple of things at war within this storyline execution: 1 - Comic book logic is absolutely a thing and trying to map hyperrealistic complex real world consequences onto a story that is being written by imperfect authors who are not experts in the fields this would be touching on is always going to mean that there are going to be major flaws in the logic of the story. Superhero comics as a whole can have just as many flaws pointed out about their logic, like I don't believe for a single second that someone like Bruce Wayne would be able to be Batman without it being known publicly, between the coincidences piled up or how freely they all use real names in the field. If we can accept that people just don't recognize Clark Kent with his glasses on or don't recognize Bruce Wayne's jawline (while I absolutely can goddamned recognize George Clooney or Val Kilmer's jawlines even when they're in full cowl), I feel okay giving some leeway to Selina being written into a dumbass plan for reducing crime in Gotham. 2 - And the story, while pointing out the flaws in her logic (a person died in the kick off issue even!), it also points out that her way had reduced innocent people getting hurt, so it's reasonable for Selina to think this is a viable plan. No, she doesn't have actual control over these people (well, she has some, in that they respect her and are loyal to her, to at least some degree), but nobody has control over others when offering a different path of any kind. Like, if she was offering college courses or trade school classes for people, she wouldn't have any control over them there, either. Presumably, she's not ignoring that getting innocent people hurt will send them to jail, that they're warned about this ahead of time and know the consequences, she's just trying to offer something, anything that's better than what they had before, even as deeply imperfect as it is. Like, I'm in agreement that I think this is a bad plan, but I'm not sure how much of that is me coming from a real world perspective where this could NEVER happen, but costumed vigilantes at a baseline could NEVER happen in the real world, either, but we've mostly accepted that that's part of the genre, you know? Versus how much am I just trying to meet the narrative where it's at? How much of this is that they're writing Selina badly and how much is it that it's just the same logic of vigilantes being allowed to exist (which are also often criticized within the narrative, just as Selina's plan is being criticized from within the narrative) that applies to Selina's plans as well? There's just as much accountability from Batman as there is from Catwoman--he might have more money, but ultimately nobody actually is able to hold Batman responsible for anything and the only control he has are the training he's given them and the loyalty and love they have for him as a person. Should we say Batman's ideas are bad, because the rogues kill people based around their obsession with him and those he trains? He's not training the rogues directly, but his actions are leading to those deaths of innocent people that he's trying to help, just as Selina training these people, trying to give them non-lethal options, still lead to deaths, even if she doesn't have direct control over them. I don't even really like Selina's plans or that she's being written to propose this idea because I don't think she'd believe in it, but I feel like there's a lot of Comic Book Logic going on that I'm trying to be generous about, you know?

[timilehinthewritinglion]

So I was watching a video that said if you call Miles Morales 'Miles Morales' instead of 'Spider-Man' you are racist. Then I saw someone defend this rake by bringing up the Flash, Robin and the Green Lantern.

That made me stop and go "Nope. Nuh huh. You're wrong there."

Let's break it down. Are there racists who refuse to acknowledge Miles as Spider-Man? Yes. Is everyone calling him Miles instead of Spider-Man racists? No.

Heroes like Spider-Man aren't going to be mantles.

He is like Superman and Batman like that.

When you mention these people only one name comes to mind .

Bruce Wayne is Batman not Jean-Paul Valley, not Terry Mcginnis or Dick Grayson. They are all great characters who have worn the bat-matle, but they have their own names as there is only on Batman. Even Terry is called Batman Beyond fir that reason.

It is worse with Superman everyone that isn't Clark is given a different mantle. John Henry Iron became Steel, Connor is perpetually Superboy and who Jon Kent got aged up be became Superman: Son of Kal-El. They all have a different name or called 'Superman, but' like Cyborg-Superman or Bizzaro-Superman.

Miles was different before he was Mikes Morales he was the Ultimate Spider-Man...and then the Ultimate universe was killed, then he became Miles Morales.

As for the comparison of the Flash, Robin and Green Lantern, those aren't the defences people think they are.

When people talk about Robin specifically they do one of 2 things. They use their names like people do with Miles or they use their other mantle. I once saw a video where the person said "Nightwing when he was Robin" at the start and another who said "Red Hood then Robin".

People make differentiation with the Robin and with the Flash and Green Lantern it is more pronounced.

They either say "Barry Allen" or "Jay Garrik" or they say "Wally West Flash" and the Green Lantern is built on that difference. The majority wither use their names (Hal Jordan, Jon Stewart etc) or they say Jessica Cruz Green Lantern.

The only time they don't differentiate is when there is only one version in the show/movie/medium they are taking about is the one that exists and even then it's not certain.

Look at JL/JLU John Stewart is the only Green Lantern and yet some still say John Stewart's Green Lantern when referring to him.

The issue is that in every version of Miles Morales Spider-Man, Peter Parker Spider-Man is there. Every single version.

The main issue is time. There have been decades of Peter Parker being Spider-Man. In all 3 live-action movie series it is Peter Parker we were given. Miles only got his movie series and game and past 5 years and even then Peter was there and people had to differentiate between them.since Miles is either 'Miles' or 'Spider-Man' and Peter is there so he is automatically Spider-Man.

The main issue is the prefix. Even in Spider-Man we have people separated by prefixes or suffixes. The Scarlet Spider-Man, the Superior Spider-Man, Spider-Man Noir, Spider-Gwen and Spider-Man 2099. They all have something that separates then from Peter's mantle. And most of then are white so people aren't being racist not calling them Spider-Man.

All except Miles. Even the Ultimate Spider-Man is Jo longer Miles, there is a new Ultimate universe and the Spider-Man for that universe is Peter.

The issue summarised is that Peter has been too popular as Spider-Man for Miles to have that name. Look at Blue Beetle. Jaime Rayes is the most popular Blue Bettle and despite there being more than one he is referred to as Blue Beetle and his predecessor is call by his name, Ted Kord.

Until Miles surpasses Peter in popularity he will be Miles while Peter will be Spider-Man. Which isn't happening any time soon unfortunately.

[mikeylivesattheend]

SO I finally read the first Unwind book by Neal Shusterman and wowowowow people were not lying it's so genuinely incredible. Like no joke, even if you read this goofy post read the first book. It's not perfect (looking at you 2007 era feminism) but it's haunting my thoughts. I don't think it will ever fade. And you know the one scene. You know.

What I'm saying is, even after reading (and starting the 2nd book) of this very grounded, fleshed out world, I had to look it up on a03. With Jason Todd 💀💀💀

It doesn't seem to exist so here's some AU ideas/HCs

Note: This is for fun, and I do not know the ending to the series. This post will spoil general plot points of the first and second books.

-Bruce is a moderate on unwinding. He would, of course, never unwind HIS kids but he trusts s c i e n c e and it follows logic

-just for fun, maybe the person who killed his parents was an awol unwind, and hes grateful that person was able to live on in a better form

-bruce wayne has great security, and the family is intense about preventing storked babies. But if a mother does try, they usually send at least 1k to help, and a lot of mothers go to his house to get some financial assistance

- dick traveled a lot, met a lot of different people. I think he met a lot of unwinds, and his parents were pro not murdering teens, but they couldn't house them for more than a day or two. The law pays more attention to transient spaces they can track after all

-all of this to say dick loved meeting and showing off to new people, and doesnt like the cops, and doesnt like that they get so scared. His parents/troupe influenced him a lot but no one has really said any of this aloud to him since he's so young. Hes never feared being unwound, not seriously.

-my ideal fic wouldnt be dick focused, so his character progression might be depressing here.

-he thinks unwinding is immoral, says it feels wrong, doesn't use words like soul. He is passionate about this issue when directly confronted, but he believes temporary help is the best he can provide.

-dick feels secure he wont be unwound for two reasons. Bruce knows hes too capable to be detained by cops. And dick knows that bruce couldn't live with himself if he condemned dick to a divided existence, no matter what his logic says.

-Unwinding is a huge blur of grey for batman in chaotic, unpredictable Gotham. For brucie wayne, clinking champagne glasses with a teenager's hands, complimenting an elderly investors washboard abs, unwinding is a fact of life. But for bruce wayne, the father, the son, unwinding would always be a prolonged muder. Bruce does not ponder those feelings deeply. He does all he can (he doesnt)

-Dick doesn't like that they rat on violent runaways/unwinding awols, but he knows they fill in lower gaps as goons. He hates it at first, and bruce does learn to ignore more. But dick learns the dangers of desperation. He meets nore people who agree with unwinding, tithes, and as he grows into larger scale problems/hero teams, he loses sight of the bigger government issue.

-all this to say, as an adult, dick does what all his parents did in a way (money, hidden spots he knows, advice he's picked up on) but his morals match bruces more than his parents. He thinks that tithing is okay if the kid is 17 and consents, understands that religion is personal, despises the state homes doing it the most (bruce has given so much to those leeches).

-i dont know enough about the teen titans to know how theyd feel, how that would impact dick, if he'd even /have/ the entire team or if some became unwound

-oh my god unrelated note clark as a teen, despite being very loved, was glad he was indestructible. Docs dont use kryptonite

-jason jason jason my boy jason. So yes unwind awols are pretty natural to him, working girls, hes against the process bc he knows a lot of families who do that to kids & he gets it

-in this au he could keep the canon backstory. It still hurts bc he especially feels then he was a burden, storked by one of willis' exes. Or he could be fully storked from the jump. His bio dad is dead, shelia is the only one alive. Bruce is more anti-shelia initially bc she storked him but he knows some people do want to see their kids later in life? This also impacts his early social clout, since storks are looked down on. Maybe especially so where he's a 'real' burden.

-hes a lot more intense than dick abt unwinds, is deeply paranoid bruce will unwind him and has to be reassured bruce would never personally do that. Jason doesnt want to use unwind body parts, but bruce will always choose jays life over his 'moral high ground.'

-honestly most of death with the family will feel the same, the main difference is Jay will have a guilty thought, wonder if it would have been better to let bruce unwind him, if robin should have served everyone (bruce did not threaten this, but kids have been unwound for a whole lot less).

- THE CRUX IS THAT JAY WAKES UP WHOLE BRAIN IN NEW BODY HORRIFIED HEHEHEGED

- this au uses the movie version of utrh with talua stuff, but add in that the brain cannot automatically connect to the body, this is very untested, and it takes like a year to make it work at all. No laz pit, the body is a military buff 16 year old but not excessively violent yaknow

-he still loses it bc "oh my god I was unwound, how did this happen? did bruce do it? no no? he couldnt. i died. where am i? talias oh shit - gotta go fast yeet"

- he goes to gotham, doesn't try to kill bruce but does realize how fucked he is. He can barely open doors, has to think constantly to walk. After moping for a while talia finds him, offers to train him, explains he was meant to be a gift. Jay says he doesnt want to go back to bruce, talia fucked him over, she seems guilty so the training still happens, mainly as an urge to finish what she started, and maybe fulfill that initial goal someday

- im the most torn on this bc i think jason would never want to risk being their guinea pig again.

-he does not kill anyone until its a parts pirate. Talia sent him to increasingly pro unwinding people to force his hand for sure. Either to have a reason to cut him off, or to make their moral worldviews align more.

-Jay is def vaguely suicidal, self disgust. So this is punishment for him + scumbags. It also puts the body to a purposeful use, in honor of the kid.

-body dysmorphia duh btw. After this im extra fuzzy on details for jay

- i want him to be part of the anti divisional group, I want him to be a more community driven hero. But is that really in character for him? How would the unwinding world impact his priorities? Would he operate in gothan as the red hood, work as a human trafficker to save those kids?

- this is also the reason I'm not focusing on characters that come after jason much. His impact would need to be felt in some way in the stories, but I dont know where yet

-i think tim is part of a much, much larger family here and he didnt go to a fancy school. In canon his grades are mid, and even tho his parents love him, he has a lot of competition.

- him being robin makes his life a lot harder. Maybe after jack +janet die the gov actually orders most of the kids to be unwound bc state ho budgets etc. The uncle thing is very legitimately needed lmao

- steph storks her baby yes, but now she's able to keep track of their life in a really unhealthy way.

-i don't know enough about babs to know how she'd feel. I think she might be for it, she might even heal her spine with it. But I'm not sold on that fully

-cass is radically anti unwind. She does go to bruce, but honestly in this au she might leave because he does condone it through his inaction

- the justice league must be pro unwinding for conflict in this world to work, and finding out the reasons for that would be so interesting. Hell maybe the justice league wouldn't really be a thing at all, with such clashing morals.

-and idk how unwind ends so no fuckin clue on resolving the conflict AND adding superheroes

Sorry this was so long, and for at least 5 typos. Please steal my ideas and write a better fic than i can ty 😘😘😘

I'll probably end up adding more jason details to this if/when I find a game plan for jay or finish the unwind dystology

[silverwolf1249]

recently read an incomplete fic with injustice! Superman and arkham city! Batman after the joker venom got to him and that's definitely two people I never even thought of interacting with each other, and now lives in my head rent free. Like, I've read great stories with injustice and earth 1, but holy shit injustice and arkham knight?? jksdkjdsk the many parallels between injustice! Superman and arkham! Batman, and yet how their paths differed, my worm brain is obsessed. Just think about it:

A Superman who got tricked by the Joker by inhaling kryptonite infused fear toxin and ended up killing Lois, whose death then destroyed Metropolis. A Superman who then proceeded to kill off the Joker and began eliminating crime by creating a world of his own vision using force.

A Superman who let the Joker's influence rule his every action even after his death. A Superman who stopped being Clark Kent and became the ruthless tyrant Kal-El of the Regime. A Superman who kills anyone who's against him or gets in his way, in the name of protecting peace on earth.

vs

A Batman who got infected by the Joker and slowly lost his grip on reality as he went through a fear toxin riddled Gotham City. A Batman who despite everything, refused to kill to the very end, trying his best to save everyone, including the Joker.

A Batman who managed to defeat the Joker's influence in the end and locked him up. A Batman who also killed off Bruce Wayne like Superman did Clark Kent, but unlike Kal, Batman receded to the shadows, to once again become a myth, a nightmare. A Batman who now utilizes fear toxin to subdue criminals.

Admittedly the last bit is kind of a conjecture based off the ending of Arkham City, but seeing a fear toxin wielding Batman vs a Superman who knows so intimately what fear toxin can do sounds so so interesting. Especially since apparently injustice! Bruce used it on Zod after he killed Tim, but said he would never use it against Kal after what he had done under its influence.

Of course, they also have some major differences, Bruce never killed his family, even if for a good second he thought bringing Barbara into his crusade was the reason she died (except that was a hallucination thank god). He never destroyed Gotham, he helped make the city better, and continues to do so. Kal-El killed Lois and their unborn child with his bare hands, and right after Metropolis got nuked.

I can only imagine Kal-El's jealousy that despite their similarities, Bruce essentially still had everything, all his loved ones and his city. Also his confusion and rage when he learns that Bruce still tried to save the Joker even after the Joker had caused him so much grief and suffering. He just can't understand how Bruce could keep his no killing rule even after basically spiraling into the Joker's madness. He has so many whys he doesn't even know where to begin.

And if arkham! Batman manages to also interact with injustice! Batman somehow ohohoho that's also so many possibilities with that considering again that arkham! Batman still has all his children alive and thriving while injustice! Bruce very much does not. Among other things of course, but that's definitely a big one. The other big thing being of course the Joker infection thing.

I sadly don't know enough about injustice to see how the rest of the Regime or Insurgency would react to arkham! Batman but man I would love to see their reactions to a Batman who might have a few screws loose, still doesn't kill, and is even scarier than ever with his fear toxin and he himself with an absolute lack of fear.

[kara-zor-els]

Hello! I've seen you talk about Jon Kent a bit more lately and I was wondering what's your opinion on the main Jon ships? (Damijon, jonjay, etc)

Hi! In general I don't really actively ship any Jon ship so far? I've only read Tomasi's Superman run and Jon's run in AC and the only character I've come close to shipping Jon with has been Kathy, back when he was still a kid (which I'm pretty sure was what Tomasi was setting up as an endgame ship for him), but even then I never got invited because I already knew that they were doomed bc of the age up. Tbh I'm more interested in Jon as a member of the superfam than his romantic life.

As for damijon and jonjay, I don't really ship either of them, but for different reasons:

For jonjay, I simply have not read TT's Jon runs yet, which is the main place they have shown up as a couple, so I don't have an option on them. I could see myself liking them in the future though. Or not, depending on how I find the book.

For damijon, I have admittedly not read their superson runs either and after seeing their interactions in the main Superman book, I can't see myself picking them up. I found Damian kidnapping Jon (a younger kid whom he had never met before btw), throwing his trauma in regards to his powers at him and then wanting to run tests on him to be extremely fucked up as a plotline, and so it killed any interest I had in this relationship, platonic or romantic. I suspect that Tomasi did it to parallel Bruce and Clark, but it just came out as very uncomfortable and unprovoked. Besides, I don't really like superbat/the batfam and tbh damijon are basically superbat lite. So it's a pass from me.

[zahri-melitor]

1 and 18 for the 20 questions to hate?

1. You have to make one Robin (Dick, Jason, Tim, Stephanie, Damian) not exist permanently and never have existed. Choose which.

Look I've gamed this out before (publicly even) and it's Steph. Steph is the only one of the five I can easily remove from the timeline without disturbing things too much or knock on effects I'm concerned about.

Dick is fundamental. You remove Dick and Bat comics look unrecognisably different. DC comics look unrecognisably different. Superhero comics looks unrecognisably different. Plus I love Dick so much. No Dick is a timeline divergence in 1940 that I don't think anyone can envisage the entire shape of.

Jason? Jason's death is the third most important thing ever to happen to Bat comics storytelling (the first is the death of the Waynes, the second is the death of the Graysons at Haly's Circus). It's a fixed point in the narrative that all storytelling revolves around. No single other event in Bat comics outside of the two origin stories listed above has had so many knock on effects. Prior to Jason's death, Bruce's entire story was about the loss of his parents. After Jason's death, it is also the story of losing a child, and how that changes you. It's heartbreaking to me that, for Bruce, the trolley question of "would I save my parents or my child" is both everpresent there and also in most incarnations, is answered "my parents". (Bruce's kids all believe he would answer "parents").

Tim I can't give up for two reasons: one because he's my boy, but secondly and more importantly, because part of my deep love for Bat comics is about the wide network of characters who revolve around Gotham and Bruce. It's about my love of the Bat family. And these are concepts that did not exist in the way you think they do, which were not developed properly, until Tim walked in and became the Team Up Robin. If you love the Bats as anything more than Batman & Robin (and maybe Batgirl, maybe occasional forays of Selina and/or Talia and/or Nocturna to helping out B&R), you need a Tim shaped character to pull that together.

Damian is the other one I go back and forth on removing, but I think at this point he's tied into enough storytelling that ripping him out as the most recent still does a lot of storytelling damage, plus there's the situation that Damian does allow for a different style of storytelling with Bruce that is different to what Dick and Tim brought.

The benefits of removing Steph is that, despite everything she brings to DC, as a supporting character for almost all comics she has ever appeared in, the only things you really need to rearrange are the precipitating incident of War Games (which actually interestingly could be transferred over to a lead in to Jason's return if you tried; also I suspect they would have killed Holly Robinson instead), and the Batgirl 2009 run (which would either go to Cass or to Babs, heroically I am assuming Cass would get it for my own sanity but we might have been cursed by Babsgirl two years earlier). She's actually not a participant in many wider events; her appearances are usually character work in lighter issues. Pretty much all of her plot relevance or character beats could be absorbed by another character and her loss wouldn't be noticed. Deleting Steph doesn't fundamentally alter the shape of the Bat comics like any of the other four do.

18. Best supergirl.

I have read at least a few appearances of all the major Supergirl candidates at this point, I believe. I think my favourite so far in what I've read honestly has to be Kara Zor-El, a child of Krypton, sorry to everyone else. I particularly enjoyed the storytelling of Supergirl: Woman of Tomorrow in terms of the frame of what a Supergirl character could be. I enjoy the loss that exists at the centre of Kara as a character - she's one of the last survivors of Krypton who understands the loss felt. Clark is the story of an immigrant raised in a new culture, never able to quite understand where he came from. Kara, on the other hand, understands the loss of her home. It's an important difference in their characters.

[alfredsolos]

So most of you don't know this but for a long time, the main continuity had 2 Supermans. I will do my best to explain it as accurate as possible, but if you come across a mistake or incorrect info please let me know. This whole ordeal is very confusing.

So the story takes place in the New 52, where things are darker compared to the previous retcons and people trust the heroes less (With Wonder Woman killing Max Lord and because the writers wanted to make things more realistic). In this time period, Superman is dating Wonder Woman and he doesn't have a son.

The story begins with the news of Superman dying. He is dying of Kryptonite poisoning and him getting weaker and weaker due to his recent fights:

So, Clark goes out to give this news to his friends and family. He visits Lana Lang, Kara, Bruce and Lois. Along the way, Diana finds out of course and we see emotional panels between these characters.

But there is another problem. A new threat that identifies himself as Superman:

This guy proves to be very troublesome. He dresses up as Clark and goes to work at Daily Planet even though everyone clearly sees that this guy is not Clark Kent.

This pisses him off and he goes around to fuck things up, while Superman tries to stop him even though he is getting weaker by time and is slowly dying.

One night, the Fake Superman visits Lois and tells her a secret. About another Superman that has been living in their Earth for a long while without anyone knowing:

He takes Lois to their location and obviously Lois is shocked:

This version of Clark Kent has taken the name Clark White, along with his family. We also meet Jon Kent (Or Jonathan Samuel White).

Obviously, a fight breaks out between them. Because this Clark feels theatened due to the fact that his son is with them and is in danger.

But before that I want to talk about the reason why another Superman is living on this Earth.

So there was an event called Convergence. Personally, It's a bad run that is all over the place. But basically, heroes from different Earths come together to stop a threat.

As expected, they beat the villain and Brainiac offers the heroes a prize. Everyone can go to any Earth they want and continue their life. Some go to their original Earth, some don't:

Clark, Lois and baby Jon go back to the first crisis (Which is the New 52) to prevent the collapse of the Multiverse and try to prevent bad things from happening.

I will call this Clark Pre New 52 Superman, and the one who dates Wonder Woman New 52 Superman.

Anyways, since there couldn't be 2 Supermans at the same time, Pre New 52 Superman takes care of things behind the scene.

So whenever New 52 Superman goes to space and stuff, he looks after Earth.

So, coming back to our main story, New 52 Superman and Pre New 52 Superman meet and team up to beat the Fake Superman.

New 52 Superman knows he is about to die, so he punches Pre New 52 Superman back to Earth and basically sacrifices himself to save the Earth.

After he beats the Fake Superman, he starts falling down to Earth, but before he can crash Pre New 52 Superman saves him.

This doesn't change anything, as he dies later on from kryptonite poisoning:

After this whole ordeal, things happen and the New 52 Lois Lane dies too. So what happens next is that, the Pre New 52 Superfamily take the place of the New 52 versions of themselves.

But this was again retconned in Son Of Kal El, and it was made it out to be that Clark and Lois were together all along and she gives birth to Jon in the Fortress of Solitude.

So the three of them being from Pre New 52 was erased and they were written as being the original Superfamily.

I know this is very confusing (because it is to me, too) but I think it's a very interesting and fun concept to play with.

(Again feel free to correct any mistake or add some details of your own to this post.)

[trekkele]

Hello! I'm the Anon who asked about Bruce being self-aware.

When I said "Also, there's something of a difference between being self-aware about himself and when it comes to his kids." I meant that he says or does super hurtful stuff that he just doesn't seem to think was wrong or reflect upon when it went downhill or realising too late or sb had to spell it out for him.

Examples being:

him reading Dick's diary after taking him in as a ward to figure out what Dick wants instead of just asking, thus creating the Robin suit after Dick's designs (God, it was a Batman or Robin: year one comic book, I'm pretty sure but I don't rememer which),

saying "commendable" instead of just "I'm proud of you" to Damian (basically his "emotional constipation" as a whole, like being unable to understand or even recognize his kids feelings and then failing to say just the most normal praising/comforting/loving things.),

ignoring (or acting as if) when Damian apologizes for direspecting/ignoring previous orders and holds a cute speech about trying to listen now but Bruce just turns around like "Did you say something?",

not telling Dick that Jason is now Robin or that Jason died even though Bruce said he would call Dick (yeah, he was being petty or grief stricken, but still)

Tim's sixteenth birthday "present"

I hate to bring this up but the whole Batarang to the NeckTM situation in UTRH. His resurrected son confronts him and he fails to show a single emotion, instead immediately debating ethics and morals with him.

anything with Jason in future comics where Bruce beats him up and acts like Jason asked for it or that Bruce didn't have a choice but to do that.

bringing Jason back to Ethiopia to the warehouse where he died, so Bruce could maybe find a way to resurrect Damian after Heretic killed him (I think it was Heretic, but maybe it was sb else)

beating up any of his kids for any reason. The most he should do willingly is defend himself with defensive moves only or seeking distance. But not charging in like he wants a fight.

sending only Damian to save Alfred from Bane, which just allowed for Damian to be captured and then having to watch Bane snap Alfred's neck, and then Bruce says to Damian's face "If I had been there, I could have saved him." (Bruce prioritised his own grief over his son's grief and trauma and all that)

Bruce tells Cass she doesn't need a real life and sectret identity, that she only needs a costume and a private batcave and she'd be fine

Bruce instigates a fight where he and Cass get drugged and can communicate about their feelings through fist fighting.

Taking/ Trying to take Robin away from sb for their "own good". I don't mean benching, but full on "You're not Robin anymore, never again." but then folding a few issues later anyway. (It could be seen as very shitty parenting ig)

Like you said, Bruce gets written very inconsistently and I tried not to cherry pick too much of what I wanted to say, so I made this mess of a bulleted list. While a lot of these examples do come from his communication issues, I still wanted to include them anyway because it's taken too far with some writers (can't say "I love you" or hug his kids, although he doesn't have a problem with doing that with Clark or Diana) or he doesn't reflect on those moments or he repeats them over and over again.

I swear I love Bruce, I'm not a hater!!! He's actually my favorite character!!! 😭😭😭

(Making this list really hurt. Just so you know.)

Hey listen, im going to answer these by number* and then probably delete this ask in a few hours because. I hate all of these!! Maybe 3 are in character!! I dont want this terrible Bruce on my blog!!! But also i dont want you to think i asked for clarification and then ignored you so feel free to send another ask when you see this lol. Or if I have once again missed the point.

* because I misunderstood this ask again and also most of these gave me hives lmao and also also I think like 75% could be answered with "we needed someone to mean to [character] and Bruce is convenient el oh el"

Anyways:

1. This one is in character, a little bit, because as much as we understand kids needing privacy now, i can see the way Bruce was raised (Alfred would have absolutely read his diary, that feels very in character for him) and the way Dick was (sneaking out to find Zucco) leading to him panicking and monitoring him as much as possible. That doesnt make it right mind you. The thing is if Dick hacked the bat computer Bruce would probably be proud of him, so not entirely hypocritical.

2. Also possibly in character, because again, thats how Alfred probably spoke to him. Not great, and i think the current Batman and Robin run does a much better job with their relationship, but can be chalked up to bad writing tbh.

3. No this is shitty writing. Sorry it just is!

4. This could be its own post but in summary: decisions made to launch another chracters solo or in order to make a different character look good are ignored. They wanted a Nightwing solo and decided a good launching point would be a big fight between Dick and Bruce. No thanks.

There have also been panels where Dick talks about ignoring Bruce’s calls during that time period, so this could be chalked up to mutual miscommunication if you insist. And i prefer the pre crisis origin for Jaybin, for multiple reasons.

5. I haven’t read this, ive heard of it, and its weird. It feels like point 4, but for Tim. The writers wanted a villain for his birthday comic, Bruce is right there.

6. Nah, Jason fucked around and he found out. He wanted a Batman that kills criminals, he just forgot he was also, now, a murderer and a criminal. Im only half kidding here, but the problem with UTRH is that exactly. Also the fact that Jason spent like six months doing absolutely horrible shit in Gotham, and that like 15 minutes before this showdown Bludhaven was blown up, Bruce has no idea if Dick is alive, and Jason mocks him for possibly losing another son. Also Jason is the one demanding Bruce cross his very personal boundaries here, ethics and morals are a very necessary part of the conversation!!

7. Anything where Bruce beats someone near death or uses lethal force is technically out of character. Jason comics outside of DITF and UTRH do not do enough work to give his actions the context necessary for them to be in character. RHATO #25 Is shit writing.

8. It was heretic, on Talias orders, and that whole storyline is dumb. This does feel in character, because Bruce response to grief has historically been 1 become Batman 2 attempt to commit suicide by cop/criminal so points for that consistency? I really hate this plot tho. Stop killing Bruce's kids!! The man is unstable as it is!!!

9. Out of character. I know it gets used for some god awful reason but it is so out of character unless the writer is willing to give it some serious work to provide context, (or unserious; see; Zur-En-Arrh in Gotham War. It's dumb, but it provides plausible context for Bruce beating his kids ie: it isn't technically him). Barring mind control, rejected.

10. No!! What the fuck!!! Bruce is not sending one of his kids alone against Bane there is an entire comic where he drugs them so that doesn't happen stop that!!!!

As a side note when I read that the first time I understood it as "I should not have sent you in alone because it was a task too big for you, If I had been there to help we could have saved him", but I am an optimist with too much faith in DC.

11. Absolutely bonkers statement from "please let me fire you from robin so you can have a normal life" McGee. Chalking this one up to racism and misunderstanding Bruce's character and that stupid "Bruce Wayne is the mask Hur dur" thing.

12. Ok this one feels in character actually. Somehow. At least they're talking?

13. Also feels in character actually. This one is weird because you'll see those stupid "child soldier" arguments side by side with "how dare Bruce take away Robin!". Pick a side. It's either bad parenting to let Robin exist or it's bad parenting to not let Robin exist, it can't be both!

And since these are comic books, and you need to engage with the genre in good faith or you'll have a miserable time of it, Robin exists! And is allowed to exist! At the same time, as a mentor Bruce has to be able to bench Robin, that is also a function of the mentor/mentee relationship! Basically - Bruce should be able to bench an injured/at risk Robin, but the writing for those scenarios usually wants him as a villain.

Taking away Robin completely only happens to Dick tho, and since it's after he gets shot on the job I do think it's in character.

As for "I tried not to cherry pick" babe please do so!! It's comics!! It's not canon unless you want it to be, and if you want these truly terrible Bruce's to be canon all the power to you! I want to set them on fire tho. And snort WFA like it's cocaine until all this is a bad memory jfc DC screen your writers for daddy issues I am begging you.