#Brandon Stark would have been 20

[nowlander]

(And ASOIAF's average marrying age isn't 12 anyway, just sayin)

People shouldn't think that they know History because they read ASOIAF or watched GOT,

And people shouldn't punish an author for creating a fantasy world that doesn't 100% check up with our world

litany against the GOTification of history.

[j-k-writes]

Helloo! Can I request older targaryen male reader (maybe rhaegar's younger uncle) x ned stark? With prompts: stay with me. i can keep you safe. And they're all afraid of me. / if they know you're with me, they'll leave you alone.

Okie that's all! Hope it's not too much! Glad to see another asoiaf blog writing for m reader:D

Summary - After his injury on the trident, Robert leaves command of his forces to Ned. Struggling with the meaning of this war, Ned is met by an old friend, Prince Y/N Targaryen.

Warnings - general GOT warnings, BIG age gap (Ned is 19/20 while Y/N is 32/33), mentions of canon character death.

Ned longed for Winterfell. He had tired of the south, and he had tired of the war. 

Rhaegar was dead, slain by Robert on the Trident. His rubies littered the bank of the trident, a place that Ned had heard the men around him start to refer to as the ruby ford. Ned had felt no satisfaction in Rhaegar’s death, Lyanna was still missing, and his brother and father were still dead. 

And so Ned continued on. 

Robert had given him command of the forces after the trident, unable to continue on with his injuries. So here sat Ned, a day's ride out from Kingslanding ready to claim the throne for his closest friend, and avenge his father and brother’s murders. 

Ned looked up at the sound of the flap of his tent being disturbed, he expected to see one of the Lord’s of his army, but he saw a man he did not recognize instead. He reached for the sword at his side, taking a defensive stance against the hooded figure. 

“Who’s there?” Ned called out to the man, “You should not be here.” 

The man held his hands up in surrender, slowly taking his hood off as Ned’s grip on his sword tightened further. The man’s hood fell away and despite the poorly chopped and dyed hair, Ned recognized the mysterious figure for who he was. 

Y/N Targaryen, younger brother to King Aerys II. 

“What are you doing here?” Ned hissed, releasing his sword yet keeping his posture tense, as if bracing for attack. 

“I needed to see you.” Y/N walked deeper into the tent. 

Ned laughed in disbelief, “Everyone in this camp wants you and your family dead-” 

“Everyone?” 

Ned paused facing the man. Y/N’s violet eyes searched Ned’s face, and Ned faltered under their weight. He frowned, “That’s not fair. You chose your side, Y/N.” 

“I chose my family, Ned.” 

“So did I.” 

Y/N nodded, and Ned felt sick at the sight of the man. He looked defeated, dark bags under his violet eyes and his cheeks were sunken like he hadn’t eaten. His hair was chopped messily, as if with haste and a dagger, and dyed dark to hide his appearance. He looked so different from the confident prince Ned had grown to know, and love, during his time in the Eyrie. 

Y/N turned away from Ned, “You’re right, I-” 

Ned watched as the man took a deep breath, and Ned had to remind himself that they’d both lost their families in this war. Y/N’s nephew had been killed not but a week ago, and his siblings were not likely to survive the end of this war. 

“Do you not grow tired of fighting, Ned?” Y/N asked. “Taking Kingslanding won’t bring Rickard and Brandon back. As Rhaegar’s did not bring back Lyanna.” 

“What would you have me do?” 

Y/N sighed, “I- I do not know. I just wanted to see you before I left.” 

“Left?” 

The man nodded, “I’m tired of this war, Rhaegar is dead, and my brother is past saving. We are not going to win this war, and I do not intend to stay and discover the fate Robert has waiting for me. I just came to say goodbye.” 

Y/N turned to walk out of the tent, but Ned leaped forward grabbing the man’s arm. Y/N seemed surprised at Ned’s action, and Ned surprised him further by taking his hand. “I do not wish for you to leave.” 

Ned swallowed, looking down at the ground, before squaring his shoulder’s back and looking the prince in his eyes. “Stay with me. I can keep you safe.” 

Y/N smiled, yet Ned felt oddly mocked by the action. “You may be leading this war, but you are just a boy, Ned. You cannot protect me. They’re all afraid of me, as long as I live this war rages on and Robert’s reign is threatened.” 

“I am man enough for you to take to bed, but not to protect you?” Ned accused, releasing the man’s hand. 

“That has nothing to do with this, Ned.” Y/N said, face falling. “And I do not need to remind you who invited who into their bed.” 

“I did not take you for a deserter, Y/N.” Ned scoffed, turning away so the prince could not see the flush that covered his cheeks at his words. 

Y/N’s face hardened at Ned’s words. “I am not deserting.” 

Ned turned to him again, “Prove it then. Stay, if they know you’re with me they’ll leave you alone.” 

“You don’t get it do you, Ned?” Y/N shook his head, “I am a Targaryen, my very existence continues this war. It doesn’t matter if you vouch for me, if I stay here my head will end up on a pike!” 

Ned opened his mouth to speak, but no words were coming out. He knew in his heart that Y/N was right, Robert would not rest until every Targaryen was dead and buried. He sighed, closing in on himself in defeat. 

Y/N gently touched his cheek, and Ned raised his eyes to meet the prince’s. “I am sorry, Ned.” 

He placed a piece of paper into the Lord of Winterfell’s hands, closing Ned’s fist around it. “Your sister is alive, although I doubt you will be happy with what you find.” 

“What-” Ned opened the parchment, reading its contents. He raised his head to look at the prince in confusion but by the time he did Y/N was gone. 

And Ned would never see him again.

[untilmynextstory]

we're falling like stars

05. i'm such a fool to pay this price | Elia Martell x Brandon Stark

Summary: The past always nips at the heels of Rhaegar Targaryen

 Rhaegar Targaryen, the King of the Seven Kingdoms, was used to waking up to an empty bed and an even emptier chamber. He could count on one hand how many times he had woken up with his wife next to him in bed in the last 20 years. Despite being a dragon, Rhaegar had to grow accustomed to cold chambers, not from the lack of firewood and furs, but between him and his wife. 

Yet Rhaegar knew he had no right to voice discontent about the state of his marriage. After what he had done and the damage he had caused, he supposed he was lucky Elia managed to stand in his presence. 

Even after all these years, he didn’t know how Elia felt about his actions. He could make guesses and was sure he would be accurate enough in his predictions. Though his Queen would never confirm or deny, she remained dutiful. She never complained or showed any displeasure at the role bestowed upon her. 

Rhaegar wasn’t blind to the fact that his reign had started on the worst of foundations. He was acutely aware that the blame lay solely at his feet. 

The Lords who sat at his tables wouldn't tell him about his choices. Even those most loyal wouldn't dare speak anything untoward about him throwing the realm into chaos over a woman. No matter his intentions—noble or not—he had caused blood to water his realm. The people he had vowed to protect from his father's increasing madness and the Long Night, he had made them orphans and widows. Rhaegar was painfully aware of the consequences of his actions.

No one would speak these truths to him outside of his good brother Oberyn, but despite her status, there was no protection for his Queen of such words. Although he was sure, such insults paled to what his actions brought her. 

There were only so many tongues he could threaten to take. He didn’t want to turn into his father because of his actions. 

Yet his wife handled it with dignity. She never showed that she was bothered by their words or angry. His wife never raised her voice or hand at him when she had all cause to. Yet, the person whose anger surprised him the most was his mother. 

To this day, like Elia, she never requested an explanation. However, she made her anger—displeasure—known as soon as she returned from Dragonstone. His cheek still tingled from the force of her slap. It was the first time he truly saw the dragon in his mother, and unfortunately, their relationship had never recovered. 

His mother left the court shortly to find permanent residence on Dragonstone, raising his siblings, Viserys and Daenerys. He knew his mother had only stayed in King’s Landing during that first year of his reign for Elia and his children’s sake. 

He was surprised that his mother had accepted a temporary role on his small council during the first year. During those times, he felt his mother said more to him than one-word answers to things. 

Elia wasn’t like that. She still engaged like a proper lady wife in public. Behind closed doors, he had been waiting for the inevitable blow-up, but it never came. She did her duties as always with no air dissatisfaction. 

Then, he thought his marriage would implode once Elia had become pregnant with Mariah. It brought even more of a harsh reminder that all that he did was for naught. He had bled the realm for nothing. 

He remembered even his mother saying that if Elia had time to recover from her first labor with Rhaenys, things mightn’t have been so dire. Though he knew what his mother was saying beneath her words, the men in their family bled the woman for heirs. 

Though he could say Mariah’s birth was never intended, he truly never expected to have another child with Elia. Sure, most of the reasoning came from the Maesters' predictions, but because of what happened with Lyanna, he would ignore the Maesters' disclosing that they made another batch of moon tea for his wife. 

And Rhaegar wasn’t a fool by any means; in the first year, he never sought his marriage bed with Elia. He wasn’t under any illusion that he would be welcome in her bed even if she would do her duty without complaint. 

Rhaegar may be many things - foolish being the highest - but he wouldn’t force his wife, especially knowing what his father did to his mother. 

Physical intimacy was never an issue in his marriage. He knew the realm considered him bookish, and he wasn’t one for brothels. Rhaeger wasn’t pious by all means, but he was a man. He was - is -  attracted to his wife. 

However, after the year of abstinence, he had sought her bed. She didn’t reject him. And he wasn’t blind to the fact that the enthusiasm wasn’t the same, but she seemed to accept his advances. However, he was painfully aware that she never went out of her way to initiate. So their coupling wasn’t a lot, but enough for Mariah to be born. 

Rhaegar didn’t know how to feel when Elia had told him and watched as her stomach became more pronounced. He didn’t know how to handle that this pregnancy could bring his wife’s death or the fact in his darkest thoughts that Elia was always meant to be the mother of his three heads. 

Then, he felt he was in a pool of regrets as he thought about what he had put Lyanna through. He could admit he was fond of the Stark girl. She was wild and spirited. And he had convinced himself he needed Ice for his fire. She wanted out of her betrothal with Robert, and he needed a third head. He didn’t love her despite what the songs proclaimed. In fact, after the birth of the third child, he never planned on seeing the Stark girl. 

Maybe it was cruel of him, but Lyanna was a means to an end. He was sure that Lyanna would state the same. He had only heard from the Stark girl once since he had married her to his friend Jon Connington. He knew there was no love in that marriage, but considering the North’s reactions to Lyanna’s actions and most of the realm, she deserved a peaceful life. 

He knew his friend wasn’t happy with the arrangement, yet he thought there was some contentment in the relationship. The few times Jon spoke of his wife, he would detail that she mainly spent time outside the castle hunting and riding. Jon wasn’t a man to bestow praise often, but he would highlight that Lyanna did her duty well as the Lady of Griffin’s Roost. 

Though he imagined ripples in his friend’s marriage despite his residence being in King’s Landing when it was time to announce Elia's pregnancy to the realm, he saw it in how Jon would look at him. Yet, Rhaegar felt it was more betrayal to Elia to think or consider Lyanna’s actions or feelings, especially when he hadn’t seen Elia so happy since she had told him that she was pregnant with Rhaenys. 

And with this pregnancy, she did have a healthy glow he hadn’t seen from his wife outside of the glimpses she would show him when they were in Dorne or her brothers. He had thought that maybe this pregnancy would be the thing to bridge them together. He thought, in some ways, it did. He felt more present with the pregnancy than with his oldest two children. 

He accompanied Elia to all her appointments, and even his mother returned from Dragonstone to be with his wife. 

At birth, Rhaegar had never been so terrified for the fate of his wife. He knew the birthing bed wasn’t easy for any woman. However, with Elia’s health, it was even more precarious. He remembered all the blood and Elia’s pale skin after Rhaenys' birth. Elia’s frail grip in his hand as she struggled to open her eyes. She had assured him the birth wasn’t too much for her despite the battlefield her birthing bed looked like. 

However, the severity of the birth wouldn’t be evident until afterward. Elia had been too weak to walk and was bedridden for almost half the year. However, a part of him felt that her recovery was affected by the fact their firstborn wasn’t a son. 

At Aegon’s birth, Elia was placed in confinement once the swelling of her stomach became pronounced. Their marriage was shaky after the Tourney, and Elia never mentioned how she felt as she focused on the pregnancy. He didn’t want to upset her, and he found himself in the ancient scrolls that belonged to his family or writing his Uncle Aemon. 

He had expected the long labors and the looks of pity at Mariah's birth, though her birth had been the quickest and easiest. It was sudden. Elia had an intense craving for dragon peppers and had been snacking on them when her labors came. She wasn’t able to make it to her chambers as she gave birth in the middle of the godswood in front of the oak imitation of a weirwood tree. 

He remembered rushing down to the woods and seeing Ser Jamie try to preserve her modesty as a woman giving birth could have. But Mariah, in all her screaming glory, was there in her arms. Elia had the biggest smile as she held their daughter tightly. 

And Mariah was her mother’s image from the midnight hair and skin tone. She was practically Rhaenys’ twin, except while his oldest daughter inherited his purple eyes, Mariah was born as the embodiment of her mother’s homeland. 

And Mariah was the child he was closest to, and he feared the day the illusion of him would shatter in her eyes as it did for Rhaenys and Aegon. 

He could clearly remember when Rhaenys discovered what he had done to Elia. No longer was she the firstborn who always wanted to receive hugs or any of his affection. She no longer tried to be a presence in his small councils. 

He could see the betrayal his daughter felt, or maybe it was always there. She had done her best to bury it as her nightmares did return. Her screams echoed through the Red Keep. Rhaegar didn’t remember Rhaenys ever having trouble sleeping. His little girl was known to fall asleep in his lap. Aegon had always been the more fussy babe. His son had always preferred the comfort of his mother versus him. 

Yet, with the return of Rhaenys's nightmares, Elia had told him the truth. That night, when the keep was attacked, Rhaenys had screamed for him. Considering the damage to his family quarters, he knew she had hidden under his bed. He didn’t know about her terrors because Elia had her daughter in her bed. She would stay up all night trying to console their little girl. 

If he were honest with himself, even as he returned to the Keep, Rhaenys would fight for his attention. When she truly needed something, she never asked for him. Only Elia could wipe her tears. 

He watched as his daughter put the pieces of his betrayal together. He thought she was a dragon shedding her skin as she replaced the prominent sigils and reminders of his house with her mother’s. 

She had donned Dorne's traditional garments, which reminded him of Elia when he first met her all those years ago, before their betrothal, when he visited Dorne. 

His son was harder to read. Aegon had always been a boy who could laugh easily, especially compared to him. Sometimes, he felt his son had inherited his Uncle Oberyn’s temperament. His son knew how to read people—he could charm them like a viper, though he was dutiful. He knew what his role was in their family. He took his studies seriously and soaked every lesson he tried to give along with the small council. Rhaegar wanted to prepare his son for his role as King - something his father never did for him. 

It filled him with pride as he watched his son, as a cupbearer, learn how decisions for the realm were made. And when Rhaenys had figured out the truth, Aegon didn’t shout or show disdain as visible as his sister. 

Even when he tried to pull his son aside, Aegon gave him a dismissive smirk and shrugged him off. 

And how could Rhaegar defend himself when he swore he would never bring up the prophecies to his children? How could he defend himself from the songs sung of forbidden love between him and Lyanna when there wasn’t love? It was all a transaction. 

He remembered wanting Elia or his mother to help him figure out these murky waters of parenthood he was sailing in, but it was his burden alone. 

When the door is opened without an announcement, his thoughts are broken. At first, he thought it was one of his wife’s maids, but he knew they would knock. Instead, he found himself looking into the eyes of his youngest daughter, looking mischievous. 

If his daughter is thrown off by his presence in her mother’s chambers, she doesn’t show as her feet patter further into the room. 

“Morning, Kepa.”

A smile graced his lips. Mariah was only up early in the morning if she was in the middle of one of her plots. She walked further into the room, and her eyes scanned for her mother before she climbed onto the bed. Rhaegar thanked the gods he had the foresight to place his trousers back on before he fell asleep. 

He pressed a kiss to her cheek. He inhaled the smell of oranges that clung to her skin. She wanted to smell like her mother; she had declared loudly in the keep when anyone asked her about the perfume she was wearing. 

“You’re up early.”

“It’s time to eat!” She announced. “Where’s Muna?”

As if the Seven summoned her, his wife appeared from her chamber, already dressed for the day. Rhaegar can’t help but feel disappointed about not sharing a bath. 

“I’m right here, love,” Elia replied softly. 

 She had chosen to wear more traditional Dorne clothing, which was more appropriate to the heatwave they were experiencing. Her long hair was in a very loose bun, and her gold hair clips were interwoven strategically. 

However, despite knowing the castle is filled with guests, she is dressed more elaborately to break fast with those he assumes are only him and their children. 

“Plans this early in the morning?” He knew he didn’t hide his slight bitterness from his voice and the look Elia gave him. 

“I want to ensure the kitchens are good and all the guests are okay.”

“And which guests will you be dining with?”

“I was planning on breaking fast with the Royces from the Vale. I also heard that Lord Stannis Baratheon and his wife are in attendance.”

Rhaegar can’t hide his wince. He felt as if his past was always nipping at his heels. He knew there was no point in dwelling on things out of his control. Instead, he pressed a kiss to his daughter's head. “You behave for your mother now, okay.”

Rhaegar sighed as he felt a headache forming behind his eyes. He truly didn’t enjoy tourneys, but he did appreciate that they could bring the realm together peacefully—for the most part. It was nice seeing the Houses he usually didn’t interact with, and he loved seeing how the smallfolk could enjoy the festivities, especially since it had been so long since he ventured into Flea Bottom to perform songs and drink with them. 

He knew now, as the King, Ser Barristan would not allow such a thing to happen, nor would any of his Kingsguard. 

But he would prefer to be in the Flea Bottom than have to listen to a poor attempt of some lord trying to plead their case for a betrothal to one of his children. 

However, he could appreciate some of these minor houses being so bold with their proposals. However, it seemed it would be all for naught as he watched his oldest daughter—using her younger sister—mingle with the men from the North, in particular Brandon Stark’s only son, Robb Stark. 

Rhaegar could admit he didn’t know how he felt about that. His council—notably Jon—always voiced that he needed to intervene or address the North’s treatment of the Crown. As much as Rhaegar always valued Jon’s advice and appreciated that even his wife, a woman of the North, did not impact his views, his friend didn’t have the delicacy of handling this. 

Rhaegar was more than aware that the force of the North that Ned had brought carried the weight of their victories during the Rebellion. Despite the Riverlands having the numbers, the North was a brute, strong force simply because they lived in harsh conditions. The North was his largest kingdom. He knew that even the Warden had trouble keeping them contained. He also knew they didn’t have a full revolt because of Brandon. 

As much as Brandon did not like him, he kept the Northmen in line, keeping the fires cool on another rebellion. Rhaegar also knew that if anyone wanted a Rebellion, people would seek the North as allies. It didn’t help that Dorne, another independent kingdom, had ties to the North through the marriage between Ned Stark and Ashara Dayne. 

Rhaegar knew that, unlike last time, Dorne would not let Elia be used to keep them complacent. However, he would never allow that to happen again. 

But Rhaegar wasn’t blind to the hostility that Brandon felt towards him. He knew that the Warden of the North didn’t even talk to his sister once he had been released from the Black Cells and was given the truth. 

Rhaegar had thought that fighting Robert had been a terrifying moment. His cousin was radiating with fury as he swung his favored war hammer. Rhaegar still had nightmares that his blood and rubies stained the Trident. 

He knew Brandon would have called for combat if he hadn’t been weak and malnourished from the black cells. He believed the only thing that kept the man from fanning more flames was Ned telling him about the newborn son who was heir to their house, motherless and needing a father. 

Rhaegar knew he had to thank Ned a lot for being the envoy for Northern matters. Yet, he knew Ned was a son who didn’t crave war. He just wanted his family whole. With Ned being married to Ashara, Elia was part of that family now—his children were dear to Ned and his family, so Ned cared more that their children didn’t have to go through a war like they did. 

It was clear that the North held no love or allegiance to him. 

It made him think of the whispers of an alliance Rickard Stark had been forming with the marriages to the South. It had been part of why he had secretly sponsored the Tourney at Harrenhal. As much as the North did not care for the flowery words of the South, it didn’t put them above politicking. So Rhaegar was curious about why the Warden would encourage interactions between their children outside to vex him. 

He had thought of betrothing his daughter to Ned’s oldest son, Jon, yet he had seen how the boy was utterly transfixed by his younger sister, Daenerys. In the few words spoken to him by his mother, she had even brought up that they planned to visit the Starks of Moat Cailin, especially as it had been some time since his mother had been able to see Ashara. Every visit was missed due to Ashara’s pregnancies. 

Rhaegar sighed. He was tired of thinking about marriages and didn’t want to think about becoming a grandparent so soon. 

He brightened at the sight of his wife returning to her seat. He thought his wife looked even more radiant as she aged. He stood to move her chair and took her by surprise as he briefly kissed her lips. 

It was improper, especially for their station, but he didn’t mind as he heard a few sighs and awes from the crowd. 

Yet, he felt cold grey eyes in their direction that he elected to ignore. 

He couldn’t hide his surprise when Doran approached him, stating that Brandon Stark wanted a meeting between them before the dinner feast. Rhaegar wanted to remove the crown from his head and spend time with his youngest. He was eager to hear what she had done with her day, especially since there was no report of a prank she had set off or of the guards panicking about her sudden disappearance. 

Yet, if Brandon was requesting an audience, it had to be important. 

Only requesting Arthur’s presence, he followed his brother-in-law to the Small Council room where Brandon Stark was already waiting with Prince Lewyn, keeping the man company. 

Brandon did stand but didn’t bother with a bow, “Your Grace, Prince Doran.”

“Is everything okay, Lord Stark?” Rhaegar asked, choosing to ignore his fellow Warden's lack of courtesy. 

“Us Northmen endure,” the man responded as they sat. 

Rhaegar kept his face blank as he eyed the man. Like their winters, the Northerns were always considered harsh, brash, and barbarous. He could see where those descriptions would come from, considering the man wasn’t slim and slender like in the South. Even without their fur cloaks, men such as Brandon made imposing figures. He remembers seeing Brandon back in full health when he came down to the Tourney for Mariah’s birth. Unlike Ned, Brandon was the same height as him, and Rhaegar knew that Brandon would be a challenge from strength alone. He recalled Prince Lewyn mentioning that Brandon was fierce with a sword after a trip Elia had come from in the North. 

However, he watched as a friendly smile graced the man’s lips. He remembered that smile at the Tourney in Harrenhal as the man greeted other noblemen. 

“I requested this meeting to put forth an opportunity to join our houses,” Brandon started. 

Rhaegar felt his heart hammering in his chest. Brandon only had one child - a son. He couldn’t imagine his child - his firstborn so far away. 

“You never cared for anything below the Neck, and now you are offering marriage between my oldest niece and your son?” Doran replied as words failed him. 

“I know with all your plotting, you fear another rebellion, particularly in the North,” Brandon stated harshly. ‘Besides it to assuage doubts of loyalty to the crown. My son and Princess Rhaenys seem to get along fine. I don’t see any harm in the match.”

“You mean outside that you have no respect for the Crown,” Doran answered. 

Brandon looked affronted. “I have respect for the Queen and all of her children. Prince Lewyn can attest to the hospitality all Northerners gladly give to our Queen.”

“Except for me,” Rhaegar said, finding his voice. “What is to say about your detest for me won’t bleed over to my daughter. Or what of your bannerman.”

He watched as Brandon’s eyes turned cold, as he had imagined the Wall was. “If you forget, my wife was of Southern blood. Sure, some will be unhappy, but they also know that without our Southern neighbors, our winters would be even more harsh.”

“It sounds like you should be courting someone from the Reach rather than the capital,” Rhaegar retorted. He didn’t miss the look Doran threw him or Lewyn. 

A cruel smirk crossed Brandon’s face. “Prince Doran, I would like to formally apologize for the role the North played in the disrespect they showed towards your homeland. In all these years, I realized the North hadn’t fixed that error, and I hope to provide some remedies.”

Rhaegar could tell even the stoic Doran was taken aback by Brandon’s words. Rhaegar didn’t think that Doran or Oberyn had forgiven him for his role in the rebellion. Doran may sit on his council and provide great words of wisdom, but he knew underneath Doran’s amenability, he would never forget his slight towards his sister. He knew Oberyn was only cordial due to Elia’s interference. 

In fact, the wound of the rebellion was never really dealt with between him and Doran, and now, sitting with Brandon and Doran, maybe he made a mistake by not laying things bare for him to face his judgment. 

“From my understanding, Lord Stark, you had no role or done any ill-will to my kingdom.”

“But my blood did,” Brandon countered. “And as much as the North suffered, the actions of my blood left a mother and her children defenseless and innocent Dornish blood to be spilled.”

Doran looked taken aback by his words. “Lord Stark -”

“Enough!” Rhaegar shouted. Of course, Brandon looked thrilled at receiving such reactions. “Don’t forget, I am your King.”

“So was your father.”

Rhaegar rose, but Doran, being of reason, took control of the room. Rhaegar didn’t miss Prince Lewyn's hand on the man’s shoulder. It wasn’t one of warning but of comfort - commodory. “Please, let’s compose ourselves as the men of our stations should reflect. We are not children squabbling in the sand.”

Rhaegar huffed. “If this is your way of starting a marriage negotiation, you are doing a rather poor job.”

Brandon ignored him. “I would have Robb fostered in Sunspear until the wedding. Sunspear is closer to the capital, and it would give the two time to get to know each other. In addition, Dorne and the North are similar in holding their culture and customs sacred; I believe we could find more common ground. That said, I would like to send men to learn to fight in the sands, and in return, I could host men as well to learn to combat the cold. The only thing I truly ask for is lots of sand to make more glass gardens and for the marriage to occur under the Old Gods in Winterfell.”

Doran was quiet as he took in Brandon’s words. Never had a marriage between the North and Dorne for a major house.  They were two of the most independent Kingdoms the realm had, and both were known to resist dragons. 

“Seems like you are negotiating with Dorne rather than the bride’s father,” Rhaegar countered pointedly. 

“To be blunt, your Grace, what do the Crownlands have to offer the North? All your goods come from the kingdoms supporting you. Besides, my son marrying your daughter binds us to your house - your dynasty.”

“And if I say no?”

“Pity, the Queen seemed agreeable to the match as your Princess.”

“You spoke to the Queen about this?” 

Rhaegar watched as the man closed his mouth. “We did.”

He tried to recall if Elia ever mentioned such a conversation with the Lord, but she didn’t. In fact, outside of saying that Ned had shown up with his two sons, it only meant her lamenting that Ashara couldn’t attend with their two daughters. He briefly recalled her mentioning that Ned was delayed as Ned and Ashara’s youngest daughter, Arya, had tried to hide in the wagons being brought down. 

There was no conversation about her talking with Brandon Stark about marriage of all things. 

Rhaegar stood, causing Doran and Brandon to stand as well. “I will think about your offer, Lord Stark; you shall have my answer before the end of the Tourney.”

Rhaegar wouldn’t classify himself as a jealous man, or he tried not to. He was aware of the privilege of being the Crown Prince provided him, even with a fanatic father, as he had. People always seemed to forget that his father’s decline mentally didn’t exasperate until his capture at Duskensdale. He wondered if Ser Barristan Selmy regretted saving his father. 

Yet, he didn’t indulge in jealousy. He also never experienced jealousy, especially regarding his wife. 

He never questioned Elia’s loyalty to him, especially at the beginning of their marriage. Despite how dismissive the Lords and nobles were of Dorne or his wife’s features, he knew beneath their words they would not hesitate to offer themselves to his wife for pleasure and the opportunity to ruin her reputation. 

He knew eyes coveted what he had when his wife would wear her more traditional garments to court. After all, despite three pregnancies, his wife had retained her slim figure, and with this last pregnancy, Mariah had caused her legs, butt, and breasts to fill out even more. This pregnancy had caused Elia to look healthier than she did at 24. 

He knew Dorne was more open with their sexuality and sexual freedom. He knew his wife didn’t feel distaste for things that the Seven frowned upon, given her brother’s broad of bastards. 

Yet, with everything he had done, would his wife seek comfort from another man or woman?

He had to admit his wife had very loyal handmaidens. He believed even someone like Varys had trouble keeping an eye on his wife. Even then, his Queen had a court, and he knew they were carefully selected. He knew each woman would never betray their Queen’s trust. He knew that they would keep any of his wife’s affections she held for another close to their chest.

Yet, he wondered if she did. 

He knew she noticed his behavior at the table as she tried to engage in conversation with well-wishers. Again, she did not mention correspondence between her and Stark. 

It made him think about all her trips North. He knew she would mention his presence a few times, but not enough for him to believe that Brandon would go out of his way to speak with her. He felt any interactions Brandon would have with his wife would just be vexing to his King. 

After all, he was aware of Brandon’s reputation when he was younger—heard about many of the maidenheads he had taken from Lyanna’s lips. 

He could imagine the Wild Wolf of the North attempting to flirt and show affection to his wife. After all, how else could the man pay him back without starting a war? 

The Targaryen king didn’t leave his seat even as Mariah begged to speak with the Starks again. He observed silently as his wife was dragged by their daughter's hand to the table containing the Northmen. Rhaenys followed shortly afterward and sat next to Robb Stark. He watched with bated breath as the two stood after receiving a nod from Elia, with Ser Jaime following. 

He took a long sip of his wine as he focused on Elia speaking with Brandon, their daughter between the two of them. Gone was the confrontational man he had spoken with hours ago, and instead of a man entertaining his young daughter. 

Gone was the propriety of a princess as the girl stood up from her bench and howled like an infamous dire wolf. Brandon was laughing before he joined her and was scolded by their Queen. He thought his eyes were playing tricks on him as Brandon and Mariah held a similar smirk of accomplishment. It was the impish look he had seen so many times he had debated if his daughter would become the incarnate Rogue Prince Daemon Targaryen. Maybe it wasn’t a dragon within his daughter, but a wolf. 

His belly filled with dread. 

Elia would never. It was wrong of him even to entertain such a notion. Even with all he had done to her, Elia would never be so cruel. Because of his sins, he knew better than to entertain such vicious thoughts. His mother had told him he was a fool for following fickle prophecies—a fool whose price almost cost him his family. 

While Elia had their daughter in her lap, Brandon’s cool gaze met his, the bastard had the nerve to smile. 

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[lovelyladyabsinthewrites]

From the Ashes Pt.18

Pairing(s): Pairing(s): Rhaegar Targaryen x Lannister!Reader, one-sided!Jaime Lannister x Lannister!Reader, Jaime Lannister x Cersei Lannister

Warnings: slow burn fic, changing povs, Rhaegar POV, canon character death

Words: 2195

Part 1  Part 2  Part 3  Part 3.5  Part 4  Part 5  Part 6  Part 7  Part 8  Part 9  Part 10 Part 11 Part 12 Part 13 Part 14 Part 16 Part 17 Part 19 Part 20 Part 21 Part 22 Part 23 Part 24 Part 25 Part 26 Part 27 Part 28 Part 29 Part 30 Part 31 Part 32 Part 33 Part 34 Part 35 Part 36 Part 37 Part 38 Part 39 Part 40 Part 41 Part 42

Book Two of Dārilaros hen ōrbar se perzys (Heir of Ash and Fire)

Green flames erupted in the distance making the soldiers murmur loudly as explosions went off one after another. The entirety of the King’s Woods were being consumed in a rapid amount of time.

“Is that. . .”

An outcry of disbelief as it dawned on the army what those green flames were. “Aerys has truly lost his mind!”

Gods. . . It was wildfire.

Ned was near ready to rush in that direction before Robert wraps his arms around him, trapping him against his barrel chest. “No Ned!”

“They’re in there! Brandon and my father! I have to help them!” Snarling like the direwolf on his chest, Ned struggles against Robert’s grip. “Let me go!” The remaining northmen that didn’t go with Rickard and Brandon were equally as nervous about the welfare of their lord and warden.

“That’s not going to happen.” Robert had always been stronger than Ned and he used that to his complete advantage at the moment. “You’ll be dead the moment that shit touches you.”

“They could still be alive.” He doubted his own words, but kArthur held the hope that at least some of the northern men sent out were alive.

Within seconds the wildfire spread over two acres of land and was threatening to cut off Rhaegar’s path to King’s Landing.

Oberyn spits on the ground and glares. “We’re going to have to retreat until this damned fire loses energy.”

“Damn him.” Hisses Griff atop his chestnut horse. He releases the reins in order to throw off his helmet. “If it’s still going by tomorrow Tumbleton could be in danger.”

“What should we do, Your Grace?”

There was absolutely no way in them advancing any further. Not until the wildfire was extinguished.

“For now we switch objectives. Protect the surrounding area and halt the wildfire as much as we can. It can’t go on forever.” Rhaegar shouts out to his troops. “We’ll need sand and lots of it!!”

Brandon couldn’t see out of his right eye as men in black and red dragged him in front of the menacing Iron Throne where Aerys sat. There was so much blood pooling in his mouth that it threatened to drown him if he didn’t spit it out on the ground. Next to him his father Rickard was aggressively shoved to his knees as the Warden of the North glared at Aerys.

Dirty tricks and an ambush had nearly decimated the northern scouts that were sent ahead of everyone else. When the wildfire had first ignited in front of them, Brandon and Rickard were immediately overwhelmed by Aerys’ men who came out of nowhere. To be killed by the Mad King’s soldiers or by wildfire was a tough choice to make. Instead they were taken captive and separated from the rest of their burning comrades. Needless to say that wasn’t an easy task for anyone to accomplish. Rickard Stark was a bear of a man like many from his part of Westeros. Even more difficult when they tried to go after Brandon. Each Stark man put up a good fight that would be worthy of ballads. It was the wildfire that cornered them, spreading faster than any deadly disease. Within minutes, the whole entire area was a sea of green.

“The traitor Lord Stark.” Sneers Aerys as he leaned forward. From where Brandon was, he couldn’t see the lines of blood on the tyrant king’s hands as he accidentally brushed up against his own, sharp, throne. Even Aerys’ own throne no longer wanted him seated there.

Thick, dignified brows grimace in reply as Rickard Stark finally caught his breath. “If it means getting you off of the throne, so be it. I can no longer serve someone like you.”

“So you put in your resignation as Warden of the North.”

“No. There will be no need of Warden of the North. I hereby remove the north from the Seven Kingdoms.”

Rickard’s sincere statement had Aerys silent for a few seconds before he breaks out in laughter. “Awfully presumptuous of you to think you have that kind of power. Torrhen Stark gave up the north to Aegon. He swore fealty and gave up his title as king.” Everyone knew the history of Aegon the Conqueror. It was drilled into all Westerosi children.

Aegon was the one who brought all of Westeros together. United them so that they wouldn’t squabble over land.

Such cold and domineering gray eyes did not flinch at the reminder. They remained full of hate and resentment. “Usurper. This land will always belong to the descendants of the First Men.”

That snapped Aerys out of his snickering. Brandon knew there would be no good outcome. There was only the end. As the Kingsguard dragged Rickard forward, affixing a long chain to his back, Brandon heard himself scream but he was thinking about his siblings. He would never see Ned or Benjen grow into true men. Never get to see Lyanna’s children with Robert Baratheon. Never get to see what his life would be like with Catelyn. Suspended now from the rafters, Rickard still fought even when pyromancers lit a fire beneath his dangling body. Being slowly cooked to death in his own armor, Rickard didn’t cry out in pain. The smell of burning flesh was enough to make Brandon barf had he not been so concerned with getting himself free.

The curse that Rickard bellowed was enough to strike fear into anyone present. “Let your bloody Stranger take you!!”

Brandon howled for vengeance, his grief making him claw at his binds in a frenzy. His sword was mere inches away but a length of rope was hastily wrapped around his neck. He couldn’t see who was holding the other end of his noose as he now strained his fingers for his sword pommel. If only he could dislocate them and make them longer. That little boy inside of him prayed to the Old Gods to help him. But her forgot that the Old Gods held no domain in King’s Landing. There was only one weirwood tree and it was far from him. All of his prayers escaped him through bitter tears and spit that started to accumulate on his beat up lip.

His vision was growing dark as more pressure is applied to his neck. These heathens. They would not honor him with a warrior’s death.

He couldn’t breathe.

The last person he saw before his last attempt at life was Varys hiding away behind a column. Pale white with horror at the scene that was playing out. If there was any sort of justice left in this world, Brandon hoped that Varys would truly aid to the downfall of Aerys.

If it turned out that the Spider was deceiving them, well, Brandon would make sure to haunt him for all of eternity.

“Your Grace! We found survivors!”

Never was Ned quick enough to be hopeful, but immediately he sprung from where he was helping the others make a barricade composed of bags of sand. Even some local villagers came to help them. Everyone seemed to freeze in their actions, awaiting with bated breath at some good news.

Wounded and severely charred men were brought back. Some were so horrendously burned that it was hard to look their way. The more squeamish men had to hold back their sick.

Right away, Ned noticed a very familiar raven feathered cloak. Lord Blackwood. Tytos Blackwood, still conscious, caught Ned’s eyes. He beckons Ned closer to where he was laid.

Dropping to one knee, Ned had to suppress the panic in his voice. “Lord Blackwood. . . my father. . .”

The grimness in his eyes told Ned everything he needed to know. Men behind him whispered of how there was no sign of the Lord of Winterfell and his heir. If they weren’t killed by the wildfire, then. . .

“They had to have been captured.” Came Rhaegar, a towering shadow in his black armor.

It would have been better if Rickard and Brandon were killed by the wildfire. If they were captives of Aerys, they would be dead soon enough. It was an unspoken truth that even Ned knew. His father and brother were dead.

An appropriate silence held them there.

Tytos was the one to interrupt it with a cough. “Lord Stark.”

Robert glanced at his childhood friend, the man that he considered his brother. He was now the Lord of Winterfell and Warden of the North. Robert understood better than anyone what it was like to have such a title thrust upon you in a quick second. As soon as the news of his parents reached him, he was regarded as the Lord of Storm’s end immediately. A daunting situation that Ned had to face right now.

Helplessly he looks at Rhaegar. “I’m sorry. I must return to the north. . . They need me now. I need to-”

A hand on his shoulder, Rhaegar nods. “I understand. Do what you must.”

The shock that Ned felt at Rhaegar allowing him to leave so easily was soon replaced by immense gratitude as he knelt before him.

“Rise, Lord of Winterfell and Warden of the North.” Rhaegar instructed him. He obeyed, lifting himself to come face to face with a man he vowed to repay one day.

Letting Ned depart to prepare for his journey back home, Griff turns on Rhaegar. “How could you let him go? He’ll be taking the northern army with him!”

“Either way we can’t advance any further.” His Silver Prince sighs and removes the gloves from his hands. “My father has officially cut us off and has bought himself some time. An extreme measure but it worked.”

His red hair may have had something to do with his outburst, Griff presses. “We have the Dornishmen, the men of the Stormlands AND Tywin’s men if he keeps to his word.”

“Look around you Griff. How on earth could we possibly continue? Patience is a virtue. Right now we help those that my father has put at risk thanks to his tactic.”

“He can sneak up on us just like he did with Lord Rickard.”Countered Griff, and it was equally true. Aerys wasn’t playing by any rules. He would attack as he saw fit. As long as it destroyed Rhaegar. Rhaegar refused to let this war kill his humanity though.

“Ned Stark will be back.” He replied assuredly. “When the time is right, he will come back. And our army will have been better for it. (y/n) once told me how she and her handmaid found a baby bird. They nursed it back to health but it was still not ready to fly. It took 2 weeks before it was ready to open its wings and fly. Things take time Griff. Either way I can’t prevent my father for doing whatever he does in the future. But I can make myself ready in the meantime and prepare for him. He’s also ruined himself for the time being. Thanks to him cutting off the main road with wildfire, it’ll take days for the roads to clear and for supplies and news to enter King’s Landing. Any raven we see, we capture it and make sure it’s not for Aerys.”

“You place a great deal of faith in this plan based on a little bird?” It was ridiculous to listen to him any further. But Griff melted a little when a wistful expression makes Rhaegar smile sadly back. The scar that ran diagonally across his face did little to ruin his beautiful features.

Rhaegar turned back to examining the green wildfire. “I was there. Her maesters told her to just leave it. (y/n) couldn’t bring herself to. She spent so long tending to it. Everyone discouraged her and told her that it would die soon. She never gave up on it though. The bird did come back the following year. It never forgot about (y/n) and the kindness she showed. Do you know what it brought back for her from it’s travels?”

Griff shook his head. He never bothered to learn anything about Rhaegar’s wife.

Pressing the heel of his palms together, it made the shape of a clam when his fingers also touched. “It was an oyster. And inside-” He pulled his fingers open “-there were pearls. Patience and determination will eventually pay off. (y/n) taught me that.” Reaching through the neck of his armor, he retrieves a leather pouch and pours out the contents into his hand. Five pearls gleamed up at Griff.

Dumbly, Jon Connington states “She gave them to you.”

“I’m not losing faith. Quite the opposite Griff. What my father doesn’t know is that I want the throne more than he will ever. I want the throne to avenge my (y/n). Being a better king than Aerys will right all the wrongs he has done to people.”

Pursing his lips he thought back to the girl that had his prince still ever enamored. It had been more than a year since (y/n)’s murder and Rhaegar’s love never wavered. Griff doubted that he could love anyone else. A shame for Princess Elia Martell.

Taglist:

@boywivlove

@esposadomd

@domoron

@yentroucnagol

@enchantingcupcakecollectionfan

[atopvisenyashill]

Dead dudes club Anon: I meant that Tywin, Rickard and Hoster dies when their kids are still young leaving their wives as regents for their sons. Like let's say Tywin who doesn't lose his wife but is so worked up that he has a dwarf son that he ends up falling down the stairs and breaks his neck. Hoster could die in a hunting accident sometime after Edmure is born and Rickard ends up with some sort of illness after he and Lyarra have Benjen.

i would like to apologize in advance for my incessant use of em dashes in this post lol. okay even with some adjustments, you run into an issue here where-

steffon, aerys, tywin, rickard, AND hoster all die within a few years of each other, and that’s going to cause a mass conspiracy. i mean JUST jon arryn dying was enough to make the twins suspicious maybe he was onto them & that man was old as balls. nearly every lord paramount dying within a few years is soooo weird. “well doesn’t this essentially happen in canon” yeah because of the political unrest happening tho lol there’s a Reason for it.

there’s no way for steffon to die in the shipwreck and cassana to be regent because robert is already 16 at that point - remember he’s a few years older than the twins! and you can’t have cassana be regent without butterflying away renly bc he’s born 277 and they die in early 279.

also hey 🤧🤧 i did the math just right there on tywin!!! the defiance of duskendale happens in 277, so the twins were only 10-11, which means joanna is regent for a few years still.

we could easily kill rickard off in a wildling excursion but brandon is 20 when he dies in canon which means he’s been lord of winterfell for four-ish years so no matter what, lyarra isn’t the one calling the shots by the time ~the plot~ really starts. i figured it might work better if lyarra is at winterfell when rickard & brandon die bc even tho everything falls to ned next, having a grown adult as The Stark In Winterfell while ned is in the wind/in the vale is interesting - unlike benjen, Lyarra can lead troops into battle. If she had been regent, it’s likely Lyarra is at Riverrun with the Tully kids and Minisa for the wedding though, which could also be interesting and i suppose also gives her more of a chance to actually LEAD because we know it takes a minute for northerners to get past the neck - as robb says, they even wind up starting the war without half their force bc a bunch of the mountain clans couldn’t get there in time. but if lyarra is there for the wedding, that puts her in a position to lead. especially without aerys there to call the parents to court - i don’t think rhaella is going to pull a stunt like that.

i think hoster or rickard is the easiest to handwave murder off - hoster is always up to some shit and both the wildlings and skaagosi have historically picked fights with the north from time to time.

and regardless of alla that, rhaella is likely to seize the regency with tywin’s help anyway - tywin has already made a name for himself, is aerys’ friend, and tyrion won’t be born until 273, which is eleven years after jaehaerys ii dies.

most of my answer still stands here - rhaella is taking the throne with tywin by her side, and you can bet in the years between cersei’s birth & his death, he’s going to be pushing rhaegar/cersei as a match, something that will be in rhaegar & rhaella minds after he dies; either minisa or cassana are likely to be the architects of the southron ambitions plot alongside jon arryn, and that alliance is still going to cause problems for the crown when rhaegar loses his mind, because the moment brandon doesn’t get a straight answer about where lyanna is, Lyarra is probably going to use the northern host to start sacking cities and searching for her daughter (since she hasn’t been brought to the capital to burn by rhaella).

the biggest change here is probably the twincest. we know joanna knows about it early on BUT. tyrion’s birth is likely going to put her out of commission for a minute or two. he’s born in 273 so if we say she’s healthy enough to start moving around by 275 (which. omg these two idiots were really out here feeling each other up at the age of like 6 ajsjs 😭), i imagine she broaches the question of jaime’s marriage at this point, which is probably also when rhaella starts asking around for suggestions for rhaegar. if tywin dies after tyrion, i can’t see her fostering jaime out because he’s lord now and she’s the regent. if she catches them together again, it’s probably cersei she sends away - maybe to lannisport, maybe to the capital (with herself, and kevan stays at the rock to train jaime). even if we have tywin die at duskendale, at that point the twins are 11, and it probably amounts to the same - cersei is sent away while jaime stays home. once he’s closer to 16, she’s going to start talking about jaime marrying elia, and cersei Will attempt to sabotage this.

the canon event goes: jaime helps defeat the smiling knight -> jaime stops at KL to see cersei -> cersei tells him about the lysa betrothal & jaime joins the kingsguard. this tracks even with tywin dead - again, likely (imo) joanna and cersei go back to the capital once she’s healed, and there will be still be an opening on the kingsguard. cersei has also spent several years with rhaegar at this point - he would have married around 176ish, so Maybe they’re married to each other or maybe she’s a lady to his wife - and rhaegar no longer has to listen to rhaella. if cersei is like “heyyyyyy rhaegar, babyyyyyy” WELL….especially if CERSEI is married to rhaegar. but even married to someone else, i mean, the first step to making sure they’re together forever is to make sure HE can’t marry lol. it MIGHT not happen - jaime has spent the last several years not as heir but as LORD and he might take giving it up a bit more seriously But he might not! if this plan is foiled, you can bet joanna is not only asking loreza if elia and jaime can marry RIGHT NOW (IF rhaegar’s bride isn’t elia), she’s also going to do something drastic re: cersei. and like idk man what do you do if your kids won’t stop fucking? send cersei to be a septa? to the silent sisters? she might, if cersei isn’t married yet, get cersei married quickly and far away from jaime but if cersei marries rhaegar, well……she’s not foiling this plot, it’s happening for sure. so basically either cersei marries rhaegar & jaime is on the kingsguard OR cersei is lady to his wife, which Might still let her plan happen.

[nobodysuspectsthebutterfly]

Y'know, the problem with people not properly reading the books and getting all their info from youtubers and other tiktoks and maybe the wiki... ok, well, there are many many many problems with that. But one of the biggest problems is that certain theories such as the maester anti-magic conspiracy and the southron ambitions conspiracy -- which are not originally fan-created but actually relayed in the books by some very odd people (Archmaester Marwyn and Barbrey Dustin), who are both somewhat paranoid and have no other sources backing them up -- therefore these theories are rather untenable, and yet are likely to have some truth to them nevertheless, because otherwise why would GRRM include them in the books in the first place? -- anyway, these theories lose their context and their references and thus become entirely nonsensical.

Yes, the maesters likely finished off the dragons. But they didn't start the death of the dragons, that was the Targaryens themselves. The chaotic self-destructive nature of the Dance allowed for the anti-magic archmaesters (it's not all maesters! most maesters probably have no idea) to have cover when they put their plan into motion. If there had still been 20 living dragons and not only 4 (2 wild, one gone feral, and the last only newly hatched), then baby Laena's egg hatching a monstrous mutant or Morning dying mysteriously in less than two decades (probably far less, maybe under 10 years; I wouldn't be surprised if she died before Rhaena remarried) wouldn't have been such devastating events. If Aegon III didn't have such intense dragon-related trauma because of the Dance, he might have acted faster to restore the dragon population, and not too little too late. (It remains to be told what the "debacle" with the nine mages was, but most likely it destroyed many potentially viable dragon eggs.) And most notably, the presence of dragons is related to the expression of magic in the world-- it's possible the population crash resulted a dramatic reduction in magic levels, and thus was an element in the birth of warped or stunted dragons as much as whatever the maesters did.

As for southron ambitions, what's canon is that Barbrey believes Rickard Stark's Maester Walys (who might be the bastard of Archmaester Walgrave and a Hightower girl), encouraged Rickard to betroth Brandon to Cat and Lyanna to Robert for "southron ambitions" purposes, and that she believes the Citadel sent Walys north to do this. The theory (not stated in the book, unproven) is that all the cross-Great House betrothals in the pre-Rebellion era (including Tywin's attempt to betroth Jaime to Lysa) were to establish a bloc that would be able to stand against the Targaryens, and that this was a Citadel-directed project.

And somehow these two separate theories, separated from their original context, have melded into this unholy ignorant and paranoid conspiracy of "the Hightowers and maesters have been behind the deaths of all the Targaryens in history, and also created the bias against women rulers" and "the maesters destroyed the Starks too"??? Tiktok is wild.

asoiaf tiktok fucks actually. The maesters invented misogyny, personally murdered every Targaryen and all the dragons, and glass candle havana syndrome is 100% real. this post was fact checked by real valyrian patriots

[crazysleepydreams]

REUNION

Hey Ppl! I know that this chapter took some time, but I was done with a lot of love and many talks insued with my beta about it so I'll give you guys a info dump about this chapter. Thanking both @albinokittens300 and elliecat78 my Beta.

AGES:

Arya, Bran and Sansa - 13 y.o. Tyrion - almost 18 Jamie - 29 almost 30 Cercei - 28 Tommen - 4 Myrcella - 3 Robb - 19 (so, Robb is about one year older than Tyrion) Jon - 20

SOULMARKS:

If the soulmark is on the dominant hand its a romantic mark. If the soulmark is on the non-dominant hand its a platonic mark. And the marks present, as in that's def a soulmark, are always romantic.

As for the shapes and colors:  in my mind, soulmarks are connected to each other. So colors representing what the soulmates felt for each other, the colors on your skin represent your soulmates feelings for you or even their qualities.  The form of the mark represents: qualities of the mates and even identifications that either they ID with or the other Ids them with. But the soulmarks also reflect what the other half felt: So there comes the play of ash colored mark, if you were the rejected one our soul got to bear that scar and even if it can show the mark you will never see the colors of what your soulmate felt for you, a defence mechanism maybe? And so if you where the one rejecting your other half the outer part of the mark and colors won't fade into ur skin, but it would become smokey and ash colored: representing the severed bond.

REUNION PT3: GROWING UP STARKS.

Catelyn and Ned looked at their growing twins in silence while the worry ate them alive. The twins had grown closer after that dreadful night five years ago: they had grown closer due to their shared guilt and soulmate. They both wore wristbands, the world thought that Sansa wore one because she had realized how intimate her mark truly was and how dangerous it could be if nefarious people knew what her mark was and that Bran simply had one to commiserate, but while it was somehow truthful it was also wrong. Sansa was ashamed of the actions of her past self and couldn’t look at her mark without feeling bad and Brandon was very protective and to some point possessive of their soulmate.

All in all they were growing up well, healthy and happy. Their parents could only be proud of their children - since the incident they had grown closer and could often be found talking to each other about things none, but they understood and about their soulmate: their crowned lion they called him. Sansa was more considerate of others and their differences while Bran had calmed a lot and had grown wiser than his years, both were sure they would find their lion and fix the mess their past selves made… But as parents Ned and Catelyn couldn’t help but fear what the two would do if their lion wasn’t as forgiving as they remembered: it was after all another lifetime and in this one his mark must have told him daily that he wasn’t worthy. How could they help their children with something like that? And could they really hate or blame their soulmate if he rejected them this time? What would they all do if he only forgave one of them? 

Some days they just wished that their children had never been born with a soulmark and others they prayed to the gods that may listen for them to never find their soulmate. They knew that their wishes were unkind, both for the twins and their as yet unknown soulmate.

Most of the time it was easy to forget that they even had a mark and they liked to pretend that the twins were simply like all other people, but it wasn’t always the case.

It was a nice Spring evening when Lord Robert Baratheon, Neds best friend from middle school all the way up to college, was visiting Winterfell with his young wife Lady Cersei Baratheon nee Lannister, age twenty-eight, their children Tommen and Myrcella, four and three respectively, who were born only ten months apart so in the North they would have been known as Skaggosi twins. All the Starks were there to welcome Roberth, even Lyanna (who had a history with the flirty man) with Aegon and Benjen with his wife Asha and Arya were there for a visit during the long vacation before another school year started. 

This year Robb, by then nineteen years old, would start his first year at Kings Landings University making his parents proud. He would be Aegon’s flatmate. Aegon, at twenty, who also attended KLU, was in his second year of his Sociology mayor and getting started in his Arts minor, lived in a flat in one of the better places of the city and as his last flatmate had graduated, had been about to hunt for a new flatmate when Robb texted him all about how he got accepted into KLU for his Bachelor degree in engineering. So the time they would spend together at Winterfell they would put to good use to see exactly how compatible they were in living together. Sansa, Bran and Arya, all at age of thirteen, couldn’t wait for their last year in middle school to start and make that big jump toward high school.

The evening was progressing rather well: the families started to get to know each other and shared a nice ambience until just after dinner when Cersei noticed the wristbands on the twins.

“Is it me or do the two of you have soulmarks?” asked Cersei in a bitter tone, raising an eyebrow, causing the twins to lose confidence in themselves and making them lower their marked arms. “You know, I have a younger cousin that has one: I hate him. So full of himself, he believes himself to be so very clever and all my family just adores him. I believe he is just a freak of nature… he is so abnormal! My aunt and uncle are probably the only ones in this world who have seen his mark; they covered it immediately! And the way his eyes gleam… he isn’t natural, but the two of you seem pretty normal to me.”

“Cersei, dear, you know better than most that it is bad manners to inquire about soulmarks so openly. And I really don’t know what you have against the kid, Rider has never acted the way you describe him to and even our kids adore him!” scolded Robert, feeling embarrassed by her. He felt thankful when Robb went out of his way to save him even if he knew that the young man only did so for his siblings. 

“While you are right, Uncle Robert, we are all family here,” at this Robb took a moment to smile benevolently at Cersei. “Aunt Cersei, as one your cousins has a mark, you must be aware just how special the soulmarks are to those who have one, so when Sansa decided that she wanted to cover hers, Bran, being a good twin brother, decided that he would use a wristband himself as a show of support and all of us have worn one at one time or another,” Said Robb, looking at the blond with cold eyes before he returned to normal. 

“Do they have their marks on different sides then?” Asked Cersei and no one really wanted to go into details on that. The family had decided that they would keep the special circumstances of the twins to themselves: a shared soulmate was almost unheard of, even if Bran’s mark indicated a platonic connection. Marks for the same soulmate happened, but they were much more rare than even the platonic soulmarks and the twins didn’t need the world looking into their lives. 

“My sister has a romantic soulmate, while I have a platonic one, if you must know,” Answered Bran with some hostility. He didn’t know why, but he was starting to feel hatred towards the woman and his instincts basically screamed at him to hide, to get away. And he knew from the look in her eyes that Sansa felt the same, his mark burned up for a moment not painfully or anything it just made him feel warm and safe before it returned to its normal state: it was simply there a weight that grounded him.

“Hey, buddy, do you want us to find some things for you to play with?” Asked Aegon, who was sitting next to Tommen. He wanted to diminish this potential disaster and was happy when the young boy nodded happily. “Bran, Sansa, do you think you two can help me look for something he can play with: like those oversized baby-proof Legos?” He asked the twins as he stood up, giving them an excuse to leave the room.

“You mean Duplo, Jon?” Teased Bran as he and Sansa stood up.

“I remember where we put them in the attic, but I’ll need you guys to do some lifting.” Said Sansa with a smile to the boys, happy to be able to leave the room under a reasonable pretense. The way that woman Cersei talked about her, going by uncle Robert's use of the word kid, younger cousin left her uncomfortable… It seemed like she was a hateful and jealous woman.

Later that night Aegon and Robb had excused themselves from the company to play video games and Arya had happily followed her older cousins. Tommen had been put to bed hours ago after he had played some with the duplo Aegon brought back with him, Myrcella had been put to bed before dinner and the twins had disappeared after going to the attic. Lyanna, Asha and Catelyn were doing their best to include Cersei in their conversation, leaving Benjen, Ned and Robert in Ned's study to have some drinks.

“I’m really sorry for that, Ned, I had no idea Cersei would react that way! Hell, I thought that she would know the right etiquette around marked people or at the very least know which things not to ask!” Exclaimed Robert agitated.

“I’m not blaming you. Rest assured, Robert, many people who should know better always ask questions or make comments. That is nothing new, what is new is that a person who admits to having such a close relation to a marked person to say something like that.” replied Ned looking at his drink. He wanted his friend's visit to be over. He started to dislike Robert’s new wife - when he met her at the wedding she didn’t seem so petty.

“What did ya call the cousin, Rider? What kind of name is that? And is he really that strange? She made it out like he was some kind of twisted guy,” Said Benjen.

“Rider is the nickname I gave the kid: he seems happy with it,” Shrugged Robert before continuing. “And yeah I’ll admit that the kid is strange. He is absolutely obsessed with dragons and Old Valyria; hell, he can even read and speak High Valyrian. Not Braavosi or some similar language, but, honest to god, High Valyrian like those scholars that spend their lives dedicated to the study of the Empire. But I suppose that as a marked soul one might expect him to have his things, but Tion is a great kid: not sure what Cersei has against the boy.”

“So he is basically a normal kid with a soulmark that loves dragons and the history of Valyria a bit too much, is what you are saying?” Asked Ned. He was dying to ask his best friend for more information about the boy and his soulmark but would refrain from doing so.

“As normal as he’ll get I’d say.” Responded Robert before finishing his drink.

“What does his mark look like?” Asked Benjen, not having any reservations, even though this type of personal question was frowned upon. “And what is his take on having a soulmark?” This caused both Ned and Robert to almost choke on their drink.

“Benjen!” Roared Ned.

“I’ve no clue what his mark looks like. As much as the kid might like me, he wouldn’t share something so private with the husband of his cousin! He ain’t like those kids that publish their mark online in hopes to find their soulmate or something, he reminds me more of Aegon,  Lyanna’s kid, if you want a personality comparison. And as for his take on soulmarks, I’ve got no freaking clue: the kid has enough issues with his memories-dreams, I take, seeing as he goes to therapy for it.”

“Therapy? Ain’t that a bit extreme?” Asked Ned who knew that the soulmark dreams could be difficult, but he never expected anyone needing therapy for that. Why didn’t the boy speak with his parents about them?

“Normally I’d agree with you on it, Ned, but you haven’t met the kid... I dunno what he went through in his last life, but the gods can be cruel. The kid does suffer from PTSD, so I’d say the therapy has more to do with that than with the soulmark. When we stayed with them last month he had a full blown episode: it was heartbreaking, his mother was able to get him through it, but he didn’t know where he was after he woke from a nap…”

At this the tree men stayed in silence all contemplating different things. Robert was reliving how the gentle, happy smiling kid that took his kids as uncle, went to nap and a haggard soul woke up screaming something unintelligible. Eddard was thanking the gods that neither of his kids suffered from memories intense enough to put them in therapy and Benjen was wondering how a simple reunion could end on such a tone...

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Brandon and Sansa were happy to leave the adults and stay in their shared living room talking together before they did some of the homework their teachers had given them for the break to distract themselves from the events that had transpired that evening. 

"So you wanna talk about it?" Asked Bran looking at his sister with concern.

"About Uncle Robert's wife bashing her cousin for no other reason than him having a soulmark and her being petty? No, I'd rather forget," was Sansa's dignified answer. Bran knew that something was troubling her, but decided to let it be as she would come to him when she felt like talking about it. 

While his sister started to get her table ready for the homework, he was more than happy to take his wristband off and trace his soulmark for a while. Bran loved the peace tracing it brought him: it was as if in those moments it was just him and the mark, in those moments he felt as if he were in the presence of Tyrion's shadow or one of his hugs and all the comfort that that brought him. He didn't know how much time had passed; as he was tracing the crown on the head of the lion - a mocking reminder to him that he and Sansa had only been crowned because of his abdication, somewhere far away in the Westerlands a dark strawberry blond haired young man in his late teens fell asleep while reading a book about philosophy on a couch as a feeling of peace fell over him: causing his mother to grab a blanket and put the book on a coffee table.

"Why do you always do that?" asked his sister, with curiosity coloring her voice.

"Do what?" Bran asked absentmindedly.

"Trace your soulmark? You do it when you are feeling edgy or frustrated or in any way overstimulated really, but you also do it just so, for no apparent reason," clarified Sansa. At this Bran tilted his head.

"I trace it because it brings me peace of mind, if I trace it long enough I can almost feel as if Tyrion stood right next to me," explained Bran, causing Sansa to frown. "Don't you ever trace it until you relax? Until it's just you and the soulmark?" Now it was Bran who became curious.

"Well, I do trace it from time to time, but mostly I do so when I feel guilty, and then it burns and for a moment I feel kind of like  back as I did when we were married, safe and protected as if no one could harm me… not even I and my worries just disappear, just without all the resentment. There are also days when it just burns suddenly and fills me with a crippling guilt, anxiety, resignation or simply makes me feel lost; but most of the time the mark simply is and feels like a weight reminding me that it's there: as if it doesn't expect anything." After she said this, Sansa's eyes opened wide. "OMG you're right! The mark is almost a shadow of Tyrion: always there without expecting anything, which is comforting and also disturbing."

After this, the silence returned to the room and Bran’s mind went into overdrive. He started looking at his homework, but in truth he was just staring at the pages frankly, not really seeing them. 

"Why do you think the mark just starts burning suddenly? Does yours do it too?" asked Sansa.

"Aye, some days it does… but most of the time it is to answer or to balance my own feelings." said Bran with a thoughtful look on his face. "Maybe when we are distressed and our marks burn out of nowhere with peaceful feelings, it isn't really out of nowhere, maybe it's Tyrion who sends those feelings." Theorized Bran.

"And when my mark starts burning with those nasty feelings? Does yours ever do it, too?" asked Sansa, fearing her brother had come to the same conclusion as her.

"Aye, mine does so sometimes as well… It leaves me trying to find my footing again from all the intensity, even if it does happen seldom. The last time it happened was last month: I felt all those feelings you mentioned and then I felt the need to sleep a whole week. Maybe those are Tyrion's feelings?" asked Bran with a grimace. "Have you ever thought of sending positive feelings in those moments or thinking of good things?" asked Bran guiltily; Sansa just shook her head. "Me neither…."

"We aren't sure that Tyrion sends those peaceful feelings our way in a conscious way… so there is no way of knowing if what we do or don't in those moments does or doesn't affect him, but we can promise to do better next time." Said Sansa looking her twin in the eye who nodded with resolve in his eyes. "Let's do our homework…."

"Let's, but I gotta say that the mark burning before flooding us with foreigh feelings sucks as a warning system…" Concluded Bran.

About an hour after the conversation they were finishing their homework, filled with a burning desire to start their research anew and find Tyrion, when someone knocked on their door.

“Come in.” called Bran after getting a nod from Sansa, while he began to arrange his books and his sister started pulling up their corkboard along with their research.

“Hey, guys, may I come in for a few?” asked their cousin Arya. The twins looked confused, but nodded.

“Sure, come in and grab yourself a beanbag." said Sansa while Bran went to grab their beanbags.

Arya smiled at the twins gratefully before doing so and sitting down with them, Bran opened a mini fridge and offered both Sansa and Arya a soda, both accepted. They sat in silence for a while each doing their own thing until Arya broke it.

“Do you guys know what the fuck that was? I mean, I gotta admit that I disliked you, Sansa, when we were kids: you being the perfect picture of a lady and having a twin and a soulmark and bragging about it! It didn’t help that you never wanted to play the same games I wanted to play, but the bitching that woman did was on a whole new level! What could her cousin have done to make her so hateful towards him?” Exclaimed Arya out of the blue, not taking the silence any longer, causing Bran to drop the ball he had been playing with and making the twins look at her.

“I just want you to know: both of you, that I don’t think you guys are freaks of nature or abnormal or something like that… maybe you guys are a little strange, but who isn’t! Plus, what is normal when there are people walking around having soulmarks! People who can connect so deeply with an animal that they can possess it! When there are still reports of dragon sightings in Essos close to the Valyrian sea?” Bran and Sansa looked at each other and did that stupid twin thing they usually did before Bran spoke up.

“We never believed you thought we were freaks: well, bigger freaks than we are I mean." said Bran with a smile causing Arya to scowl at him and Sansa hit him on his shoulder before taking over the talking.

“Thank you, Arya, for your support, but what do you say: haters shall be haters? I think that applies well in this case. I don’t believe that her cousin did anything for her to really hate him, but it seems to me that Cersei is a shallow, jealous and petty woman who hasn’t outgrown her resentment for not having a soulmark while her cousin has one. We know you never thought us abnormal and I know that our enmity during our childhood is partly my fault. I was pretty full of myself wasn’t I?” Asked Sansa with a smile; Arya returned the smile and relaxed.

“So what are you, double trouble, up to? Have you guys already found any clues about your soulmate? And I promised myself I’d never ask, but how do you guys feel about that?” Asked Arya.

“We are making progress in our research, well, at least partially we have read all historical indications about all three of us, but we might need to open up another line of thinking as our research is hitting a wall at this moment,” answered Bran. “As for us having the same soulmate, I believe we might differ on our feelings, but seeing as our soul bonds are essentially different I have no problems with it: I love him and Sansa does love him too, we just love him differently: only one of us would snog him and that one isn’t me.” This caused Arya to laugh as Sansa turned redder than a tomato. “Not that I wouldn’t be happy to do almost anything else with him...”Finished explaining Bran in his almost detached way.

“I agree with Bran, even if I’d have used other words,” Said Sansa.

“So why are you getting nowhere with your research?” Asked Arya.

“We might need to broaden our search to some new things we hadn’t thought about yet: wanna help us?” Asked Bran.

“Sure. What do you guys need me to do?” Asked Arya, opening a laptop that belonged to one of the twins.

“Search for anyone named Tyrion and look for anything that might come close to scandal-worthy behavior,” Answered Sansa with an impish smile.

“For real?” Asked the shocked girl.

“Yes from what we remember, and we asuming that personality wise he hasn’t changed much, he used to get into some crazy stuff… boardline suicidal stuff.” Explained Sansa with a grimace.

“Please don’t ask, just do,” Saiid Bran, not really feeling like getting into a long winded explanation while he continued their previous line of search. The possibility of both him and Sansa staying Starks, keeping their first names and having the same father, in name and titles at least, while their soulmate wasn’t even a Lannister didn’t add up to him, the chances of that happening were close to none! So he wasn’t giving up yet.

“So, Sansa, have you given Ashton’s proposition a thought?” asked Bran while he was busy trying to distract the three of them.

“Bran, we are thirteen, I have a soulmate and if I ever date before finding him it won’t be with Ashton Stone, nor will it be at this age!” Exclaimed Sansa, throwing a ball at her brother who just gave a cheeky smile while their cousin laughed.

So I'm not sure how many chapters this story will get: I don't think it will get more than 10 tbh... I hope u enjoyed it!

[istumpysk]

Operation Stumpy Re-Read

AGOT: Eddard IV (Chapter 20)

"Yes, my lord," the steward said. "We have given you Lord Arryn's former chambers in the Tower of the Hand, if it please you. I shall have your things taken there."    

Ned, take my advice, sleep anywhere else.

+.+

His hand left powder stains on Ned's sleeve, and he smelled as foul and sweet as flowers on a grave.    

Varys, smellin’ like foul perfumed sweetness. Love it, love it.

+.+

"Lord Renly spends more on clothing than half the ladies of the court."         

It was true enough. Lord Renly was in dark green velvet, with a dozen golden stags embroidered on his doublet. A cloth-of-gold half cape was draped casually across one shoulder, fastened with an emerald brooch. "There are worse crimes," Renly said with a laugh. "The way you dress, for one."    

Renly Baratheon still sitting #1 in the Best Baratheon Brother ranking.

Stay tuned for further updates.

+.+

He eyed Ned with a smile on his lips that bordered on insolence. "I have hoped to meet you for some years, Lord Stark. No doubt Lady Catelyn has mentioned me to you."         

"She has," Ned replied with a chill in his voice. The sly arrogance of the comment rankled him. "I understand you knew my brother Brandon as well."    

🔥

+.+

"I should have thought that heat ill suits you Starks," Littlefinger said. "Here in the south, they say you are all made of ice, and melt when you ride below the Neck."     

Am I crazy in thinking that saying this to the Hand of the King, when his father was famously burned alive in that very castle, is the type of blunder that would get you dismissed from your royal duties and cost you a few titles?

+.+

He had only to look at Sansa's face to feel the rage twisting inside him once again. The last fortnight of their journey had been a misery. Sansa blamed Arya and told her that it should have been Nymeria who died. And Arya was lost after she heard what had happened to her butcher's boy. Sansa cried herself to sleep, Arya brooded silently all day long, and Eddard Stark dreamed of a frozen hell reserved for the Starks of Winterfell.    

It seems Eddard Stark has prophetic dreams as well.

Sansa. :(

+.+

Hesitantly, Ned followed. Littlefinger led him into a tower, down a stair, across a small sunken courtyard, and along a deserted corridor where empty suits of armor stood sentinel along the walls. They were relics of the Targaryens, black steel with dragon scales cresting their helms, now dusty and forgotten.

(...)

Ned studied the rocky face of the bluff for a moment, then followed more slowly. The niches were there, as Littlefinger had promised, shallow cuts that would be invisible from below, unless you knew just where to look for them. The river was a long, dizzying distance below. Ned kept his face pressed to the rock and tried not to look down any more often than he had to.    

Where have I read this before?

Along the walls stood empty suits of armor, dark and dusty, their helms crested with rows of scales that continued down their backs.

(...)

Sansa dared not look down. She kept her eyes on the face of the cliff, making certain of each step before reaching for the next. The stone was rough and cold. Sometimes she could feel her fingers slipping, and the handholds were not as evenly spaced as she would have liked.

Keep following papa’s journey, little one.

+.+

Bran's wolf had saved the boy's life, he thought dully. What was it that Jon had said when they found the pups in the snow? Your children were meant to have these pups, my lord. And he had killed Sansa's, and for what? Was it guilt he was feeling? Or fear? If the gods had sent these wolves, what folly had he done?    

+.+

"Why should Tyrion Lannister want Bran dead? The boy has never done him harm."                 

"Do you Starks have nought but snow between your ears?" Littlefinger asked. "The Imp would never have acted alone."

Let’s sidestep answering that question. Subtle, Littlefinger.

+.+

"I had hoped to see the girls …" Catelyn said.         

"That would be most unwise," Littlefinger put in. "The Red Keep is full of curious eyes, and children talk."                 

"He speaks truly, my love," Ned told her.

+.+

Catelyn went to him and took his hands in her own. "I will not forget the help you gave me, Petyr. When your men came for me, I did not know whether they were taking me to a friend or an enemy. I have found you more than a friend. I have found a brother I'd thought lost."    

+.+

And from this day on, I want a careful watch kept over Theon Greyjoy. If there is war, we shall have sore need of his father's fleet.

1. Robb Stark, you failed to do this.

2. Love hearing about that valuable Greyjoy fleet! :D

+.+

That was the most dangerous part, Ned knew. "All justice flows from the king," he told her. "When I know the truth, I must go to Robert." And pray that he is the man I think he is, he finished silently, and not the man I fear he has become.    

"You knew the man," she said. "The king is a stranger to you." Catelyn remembered the direwolf dead in the snow, the broken antler lodged deep in her throat.

Final thoughts:

I hate everything.

-> return to menu <-

[hollowwhisperings]

ASOIAF ships & canonical ages + context (edited with corrections): Starks & Friends Edition.

GENERATION MARTYR

NedCat wed in 282 AC, aged 19 & 18. They were nearing their 17th wedding anniversary prior to Lannister Intervention. Catelyn had never seen Ned prior to their wedding (though the same is not said of him).

NedBert: Ned & Robert fostered together in the Vale, at ages 8 & 9 respectively. Ned lived in the Vale until he was 16, thereafter splitting his time between it & Winterfell. Funnily enough, both are of age with brothers of the other: Robert & Brandon both born in 282 AC, Ned & Stannis the year after (though Stannis is dated as being born in 284, not 283).

Cat/Uncle Brandon: Catelyn was betrothed at 12 to Brandon Stark (14~16). They met several times, including in 282 AC when she was 18 & he 20.

At the Tourney of Harrenhal in 281 AC, Brandon Stark was 19, Ned was 18, Lyanna 15, & Benjen 14.

Howland Reed was 21~24 at the Harrenhal Tourney in 281 AC & Ashara Dayne was 21 or in her late teens¹.

STARKLINGS

Robb/Jeyne Westerling: King Robb wed his one-night stand in 299AC, both of them 16-ish.

Roslin Frey was 16/17 when betrothed first to King Robb & then to his uncle Edmure. Edmure Tully was 24~35 at the Red Wedding.

Robb/Margaery Tyrell: Queen Marge is almost 17 & (had he lived) Robb would be too.

Robb/Dany: the 16-year old Queen-by-Conquest was born scantly a year later than the Young Wolf.

Robb/Arianne Martell: Princess Arianne is 7 years Robb's senior, currently 23/24.

Throbb: Theon was 10 when Lord Stark brought his War home with him (again). Robb & Jon were about 6, Sansa 2, & Arya newly born.

Robb/Dacey Mormont: Dacey was Lady Mormont's eldest daughter, her age estimated as being [22~48] when killed in 299 AC alongside her 16-year old King.

Robb/Myrcella: Princess Myrcella was 6~8 years old when she met the Starklings at Winterfell. She was soon smitten with Robb, then-14 & probably oblivious.

Sansa/Joffrey: Joffrey and Sansa were of an age with each other, being 12 & 11 respectively when first betrothed. Sansa was soon besotted [with the idea of Joffrey], despite earlier being smitten that same year with the youngest son of Lord Yohn Royce (Waymar, on his way to join the Night's Watch & Killed By Prologue).

Sansa/Willas Tyrell: when Margaery spoke of betrothing Sansa to her eldest brother, Sansa was 12 & Willas 21~25. Ser Loras Tyrell, whom Sansa had a crush on, was closer in age at 16 or so.

Sansa/Margaery Tyrell: they met when Sansa was 12, Margaery 15/16.

Sansa & Tyrion Lannister: the two were forcibly wed, she was 12 & he was 25. Tyrion was first wed at 13, eloping with the equally 13 & besotted "Tysha" & living with her for two weeks. There are Differences between these two marriages that should be Obvious.

Sansa & Robert Arryn: the cousins were betrothed by Lady Lysa but Lord Baelish swiftly prevented such a match² by claiming Sansa as "his bastard daughter". Despite this, 8-year old Robert has both proposed to & kissed "Alayne" (who is 13, not 14).

Sansa/Harrold Hardyng: "Alayne" & Harry the Heir have been betrothed in TWoW, aged "14" & ~19 respectively³.

Sansa/"Aegon Targaryen": Sansa is currently 13 & the son of Princess Elia by Rhaegar Targaryen would be 18 in 300 AC.

JonSa: 17 & 13. Jon has technically "known" Sansa since Lady Catelyn was pregnant with her, the two "meeting" soon after Sansa's birth. They grew up together but at a greater distance than the other Starklings, Sansa following her Lady Mother's example with Jon & Theon both.

"Lemoncakes": Dany is currently 16 & Sansa is 13.

Sansa/Margaery: they became friends at ages 12 & ~16. They will be 14 & 17 by the end of 300 AC.

SanSan: Sandor Clegans met Sansa when she was 11, during his time as Prince Joffrey's "dog". Sandor was 27/28 at the time. In her time as a Lannister hostage, Sandor (& the absent Ser Jaime) was the only Kingsguard who never beat her and he protected her when he could. Sandor, when drunk or strongly emotional, found himself [enamoured] with Sansa (or, at least, what she Represented) but never acted on this as Literally Everyone Else did & continue to do. Sandor called Sansa "Little Bird" and so reminded himself that, Maiden Fair she may be, she was but a child⁴.

Petyr Baelish is currently 31/32. He has been obsessed with Lady Catelyn Tully since their shared childhood, where Catelyn was the most senior in their playgroup (4-5 years his elder). In 12-year old Sansa, Petyr deluded himself in thinking he could have both the woman who [rejected him] & "their" child together. He actively attempts to court his step-niece & parent her, sometimes at the same time.

Theon/Sansa: Theon was 10 when he first met Sansa, aged 2. He is now 22 & she 13. In his early years as Ned Stark's "ward", Theon dreamed that he would be adopted into the Stark family by marrying Sansa.

Sansa/Podrick Payne: both will turn 14 in 300 AC (assuming Podrick survived his encounter with Sansa's Mother). They have never met.

Sansa & Jeyne Poole have been close friends throughout their shared childhood at Winterfell. They are only a year apart, being 13 & 14 respectively. Sansa is unaware of the role Lord Baelish had in Jeyne (& their younger friend Beth Cassel)'s "Disappearing".

Mya Stone is King Robert Baratheon's eldest known bastard at 19. Lady Myranda Royce is ? They both believe Alayne Stone is 14.

Gendrya: Gendry met the boy he soon guessed was a girl when he was ~14 & she 9/10. Gendry's "abandonment" of Arya (to be a knight in the Brotherhood Without Banners) was the last loss that prompted Arya's flight from Westeros. Gendry is the (oblivious) eldest son of King Robert who yet lives. He will soon be 16 & has somehow remained ignorant of his heritage despite meeting his father at least twice, being separately inspected by two Lord Hands, being idly propositioned by his half-sister Bella Rivers (fortunately rejected) as she explained her name & parentage, and being mistaken as Renly Baratheon (Robert's very visually similar younger brother) by Brienne of Tarth. In Gendry's defense, Arya seemed oblivious too & had more "clues" available to her.

Arya/"Hot Pie": Hot Pie was the only other friend of Arya who, along with she & Gendry, survived their entire escape from King's Landing (Weasel's Fate is Unknown). Hot Pie "abandoned" Arya before Gendry, staying on at a crossroads inn as a baker. His age (& actual name) are unknown: it can possibly be assumed that he is closer to Arya in age than Gendry, perhaps 9~13.

Arya/Edric Storm: currently 11 & 13, respectively. They have never actually met.

Arya/Ned Dayne: they met when Ned was 12 & Arya 10. Little Ned Dayne was last seen squiring with a recently rekilled Ser Beric Dondarrion. Arya's mislike of Ned Dayne's beliefs on his namesake, Arya's Father, having loved a woman other than Arya's Mother inspired Arya to mimic the same prejudices against Dornishmen held by many of her most hated enemies (Tywin & Cersei Lannister, to name 2).

Arya/Dany: Arya is now 11 & Queen Daenerys 16.

BranJen: when Jojen first met the "winged wolf" of his Dreams, said Wolf was about 8 years old. Jojen was 12/13.

Bran/Meera Reed: 9-year old Bran currently believes himself in love with the 17-year old Meera Reed, the only human female in shared geography. Meera is more concerned with her little brother's declining mental health.

Bran/Shireen Baratheon: Shireen is of age with Arya, making her some 2 years senior to Bran.

Rickon/Shireen: Rickon is 4, Shireen is 11.

WARDS OF WINTERFELL

Jon Snow/Ygritte: their torrid affair began when Jon was 16 & Ygritte 18-ish.

Jonerys: Jon died aged 17. Dany is currently 16.

Jon/Tormund: Tormund's age is unspecified but, given that he has at least 4 fighting-aged sons & at least 1 contentedly married daughter... even assuming his sons were born to different mothers, Tormund could be no younger than his mid-30's & is more probably in his 40's.

Jon/Val "the Wildling Princess": Val could be anywhere between her late teens to her early 30's. She is, at least, closer in age to Jon than Melissandre.

JonSatin: just two teens, scandalizing what little polite society exists at The Wall by being Lord Commander & the Steward-and-Squire thereof. Satin describes himself as "18": Jon describes Satin as "pretty [like a girl]".

Jon/Samwell Tarly: these best-friends are of age with each other, both born in 283 AC.

Sam/Gilly: 17 & 16-18, as of 300 AC.

Thramsay: Theon is 22 & Ramsay is at least 18.

Theon/Jeyne Poole: they are 22 & 14, as of TWoW.

Walder of Winterfell/Meera Reed: "Hodor" is no younger than 17, being Meera's own age or older.

OATHKEEPERS

Ser Jaime Lannister met Ned Stark when they were 17 & 19, respectively. Ned entered the Red Keep's great hall and found Ser Jaime sat upon the Iron Throne, Aerys II's corpse between them. It was the "Honourable" Ned Stark's disapproval of him that wounded Jaime "first" & most bitterly upon his becoming "the Kingslayer" [of a Mad King].

Brienne was 18 when she swore her sword to the widowed Lady Catelyn (~35).

Braime: Jaime was ~32 & Brienne 18 when they first met. She will be turning 20 in 300 AC & he 34.

Jaime/Lysa Tully: the two were nearly betrothed in their early teens (they were born in the same year or Lysa within the 2 years after). When Jaime was sent from his squiring at Crake Hall to "deliver an important message" to Riverrun, however, he had greater interest in Lysa's Great-Uncle Brynden than in Lysa herself.

Ser Brynden "the Blackfish" Tully would have been in his 20's when a 12~14 year old Jaime met him & thought him a Hero. The Blackfish is estimated to now be 44~47 & he alone escaped Ser Jaime's breaking the Siege of Riverrun.

Jaime & Lyanna Stark were another hypothetical match, in their youth, also being of age with each other. The only opportunity either Lannister twin had to meet Lyanna was when all three were 15 & at Harrenhal. Both Lannisters were sent away prior to the Tourney proper, however, to separate destinations though [Lyanna] was mistaken for Jaime during [her] stint as "Knight of the Laughing Tree"... prompting Prince Rhaegar's Search for the Mystery Knight at his Father's Paranoid Demands & his instead finding Lyanna.

Ser Arthur Dayne knighted Jaime when the latter was 15. Arthur was no younger than 21 at the time, his exact age is unspecified.

Prince Rhaegar was ~23 when he left a 17-year old Jaime as the sole protector of his wife & small children: they & Jaime were all hostages, afterall (though Rhaegar only admitted to Jaime's being one).

Princess Elia would have been 24~26 (& pregnant) when she met Ser Jaime as a newly appointed Kingsguard. They had met years earlier, when Jaime was 7 or so, when the Ruling Princess of Dorne took her teenaged daughter & son to Casterly Rock.

Prince Oberyn joined his mother & sister in their Tour of Westeros, likely expecting to be betrothed to the late Joanna Lannister's only daughter. They met again, both of them grown men (Oberyn ~41 & Jaime ~32), upon Brienne's returning Ser Jaime to King's Landing.

Jaime/Addam Marbrand: Addam is possibly Jaime's best friend, having first befriended each other as children while Addam was a page at Casterly Rock. They are likely of age with each other, give or take a few years, putting Addam in his early 30's.

Jaime/Ser Ilyn Payne: Ilyn has become Jaime's preferred "confidant", after his estrangement with his siblings & his sending Brienne on [their] quest. This is due to Ser Ilyn's inability to break Jaime's confidence, being both illiterate & without his tongue. Thusly is Ilyn able to safekeep Jaime's new clumsiness with a sword & his Relations with his sister (willingly or otherwise). Ser Ilyn is in his late 30's, at minimum⁵, more probably in his 40's & possibly even his mid-50's.

Footnotes

¹Ashara being any younger than 16 in 281 AC makes it ??? that anyone could believe her the mother of "Ned's Bastard": it would also make it really, really weird that a then-45 year old Barristan Selmy would think himself in love with her. Assuming her death was faked, Ashara would be 35~40 as of 300 AC.

²Lysa suggested the betrothal but Petyr prevented it by claiming Sansa as "his bastard daughter" (& thus "unsuited" for Lord Arryn). Petyr's "protecting" Sansa "incidentally" prevented Sansa from gaining genuine allies as her cousin's betrothed or in her own right as "Ned Stark & Catelyn Tully's daughter".

Lady Catelyn was, of course, kin to Lady Lysa: she was also the niece of the Blackfish & had been the Lady of Winterfell, a trusted ally from a neighbouring kingdom, for nearing 2 decades.

Ned Stark, meanwhile, would be well-remembered by the Vale not only as Warden of the North but for his fostering in the Vale from age 8 to 16 (oft visiting it thereafter): many of the Lords in the Vale saw Ned grow up as their Lord's surrogate son, others growing up alongside him.

When Ned called for aid, his House thrice-betrayed by its King & with yet more being demanded from him, as King Aerys II demanded the heads of his foster-father & brother too? The Vale followed their Lord & Ned Stark to war gladly, certain of the justice in his cause.

Lady Lysa's keeping the Vale from aiding Ned's son against the Crown, in circumstances all too similar to his Lord Father's before him (both his sisters "taken", his brother [nearly] murdered, his father wrongfully executed: his remaining family at threat)? The Vale Lords were displeased, Lady Lysa's decision controversial to her vassals. Lysa's own Uncle, the Vale's Knight of the Bloody Gate, resigned his post in protest of this order (though not for any love of Ned, whom he misliked for the existence of Jon Snow): the Tully Words name "Family" before all else.

It should additionally be noted that Houses Waynwood, Corbray & Templeton may all boast a Stark ancestress: Ned's Great-Aunt Jocelyn wed a Ser Royce, their three daughters marrying into those three Vale Houses. The current heads of these Houses all signed on as Lords Declarant, protesting the Regency assumed by Petyr Baelish.

Lord Yohn Royce, leader of these Lords Declarant, was friendly with Ned & likely fought alongside him in war: he had sparred with Lord Stark in his visit to Winterfell, not too long prior to AGOT, as he took his youngest son to serve at The Wall.

If the Vale Lords had known Sansa's true identity, she would have easily found support: she may well have "gained" loyalty simply for her Name & Circumstances, no betrothal to her young cousin required.

For Petyr's "hiding" of Sansa, the Knights of the Vale did not aid Riverrun as it was besieged nor when its Tully Lord was taken captive to Casterly Rock. For Petyr's "stalling" in revealing Sansa's identity, an 11-year old Arya Stark believed herself entirely alone in Westeros and so abandoned it. For Petyr's Lies, Sansa's entire family was separated from AGOT & into TWoW: Sansa's greatest danger in the Vale has ever been Petyr Baelish, as much as he claims otherwise.

³This post was revised in August '23 due to Errors regarding Sansa & Harrold Hardyng: I had mistaken the age of "Alayne" as being true of Sansa too. Littlefinger aged Sansa up for his own purposes. The accidental aging up of Harrold Hardyng by a decade was, however, mine own fault. Sorry, Harry!

⁴Sansa misremembers her last meeting with Sandor Clegane as ending with a kiss: in troth, Sandor bade her to sing him a song at knifepoint & she held his wounded cheek (seemingly prompted by seeing him cry). There were several instances where Sandor threatened or otherwise implied Sansa with Harm but, given her treatment by most everyone else, Sandor's never acting on such words or thoughts made him a hero to Sansa ever after (mostly After).

⁵Tyrion notes being "too young" to remember a Ser Ilyn who could Speak. Cersei, Renly & Joffrey date Ser Ilyn's Silencing as taking place "14 years" ago. Ser Ilyn Payne was an active knight in service to Aerys II, his tongue cut during the reign of Tywin Lannister as Lord Hand. That makes Ser Ilyn at least 18-or-so in 2

[kiefbowl]

There’s a couple of ways to answer this. The first is the general, which is that one thing GRRM is interested in exploring is the idea of generational trauma wrt war.

The second is more admin in that he’s vaguely talked about how he planned for a time skip after ASOS, but he couldn’t make it work. Characters like Arya and Sansa were supposed to be about 3 years older after that book, but he had trouble justifying that passage of time in the other story lines. This issue also ended up being part of the reason he had to split ADWD into two books with AFFC coming first. This problem is called the “Meereen Knot” which is that he needed a lot of characters to haul ass to Meereen to get near Daenerys. He said before that if he could have foreseen this issue he would have started the books with them a little older. But not much older.

I’m not sure I agree with you that they’re written like adults. I find Jon, Arya, Sansa, Bran, and Daenerys written well as their ages. Arya is witnessing the brutal effects of war on the small people, Sansa is trapped as a political game piece, and they’re about 9 & 11, they aren’t little little. I think it’s fair for them to be able to observe their circumstances with some understanding. Jon and Dany are teens at about 15. Bran is like 7 and really doesn’t have a whole lot to say about the world at large, especially as he’s on his little mystical journey. That seems appropriate to me.

Plus, we come to Robb, who is not a POV character, who is also 15. And that’s important. All his siblings have to be younger than him, of course, and Jon has to be about his age to make him conceivably Ned’s bastard but also conceivably the son of R+L. Dany could have been aged up I suppose, she was born when her mother fled the sack of King’s Landing, and so I guess it could be imagined that the story wouldn’t change much if she was already two when her mother fled, but the fact that she knows nothing about Westeros or Robert’s Rebellion or especially has no memory of Rhaegar is important. The take away is that Robb, Jon, and Dany are born at the end of Robert’s Rebellion.

When Robb is crowned King of the North, you have to understand that it’s only been about 15 years since the Rebellion ended, and only so many more years when the Rebellion had began. The inciting incident (to the northern people) is Rhaegar’s kidnapping of Lyanna, which lead Lord Rickard Stark and his heir Brandon Stark to go to King’s Landing to confront King Aerys. Ned is probably 20 years old at this time, and Rickard is probably only in his forties or maybe fifties. Aerys kills Rickard and Brandon brutally, and the Rebellion kicks off. From the North’s perspective, their primary liege house is decimated in, like, a month. The young unprepared, unmarried, unexpected 20 year old Ned has become Lord Stark. And there are no other little Starks because Brandon hadn’t married Catelyn yet. Robb is the beginning of the next generation born to a “spare” with no Grandfather still alive who would have otherwise still been Lord Stark.

When Robb is crowned King of the North, it’s because Ned has been executed. Robb’s prowess at battle has now been tested (it was not assumed when he left Winterfell, and in fact Catelyn thought he was too young to March south), he is a young man, and there is no one else. Rickard is dead, Brandon is dead, Lyanna is dead, (Benjen is missing but also he’s at the Wall), now Ned is dead and there are no other children in Robb’s generation older than Robb, it’s just him. Being 15 is this sweet spot where he is believably desperately needed by the houses around him to be “old enough” but the readers are clued in that he is far too young and unseasoned.

AND it is his age that undoes him. Because he’s only 15 years old, a plot was moved against him he was too young to have any power against. He is seduced after battle by a girl his age, and he can’t help but sleep with her because he’s, well, 15. And he can’t think for a second that she would be a plant, and he is a little too blasé about the consequences of marrying her when he’s already promised to marry a Frey girl. He doesn’t have to marry Jeyne (a lady but a real nobody), but he believes himself to be honorable like Ned (who is now dead and he hasn’t seen in 6 months or so), he thinks his hands are tied morally. He doesn’t have the life experience yet to weigh his rigid juvenile morality against his duties as a king. And this is of course what leads to the Red Wedding. Perhaps it would have been believable if he was 18, but I think it’s more believable if he’s 15.

The other houses rallying around a 15 year old makes sense because politically they want to unite against King’s Landing. They don’t want to fight divided against Kings Landing. They need to unite under one house, and House Stark is their liege house, Starks are descended from the old Kings of the North, Robb is Ned’s son who has just been unjustly executed so the symbolism is there to rally behind, and one house couldn’t step up and claim to be King over another house without huge contention. That’s not something you get to just say.

Hopefully that gives some insight? Maybe not the answer you’re were expecting lol. Of course, if it’s just not your bag it’s not your bag which is cool too.

I love that you love GoT/ASoIF media and I look forward to your hot takes about season 2 whenever that comes out. Yeah yeah GRRM is a dirty old man *jerk off hand motion* but let me watch my stories, you shits.

I hate GOT, but yes I love the books. Do you mean HOTD? I thought HOTD was great. Im nervous about season 2 bc the fan reaction was sooooo bizarre at times I’m really worried they’ll be swayed especially wrt to Rhaenyra and Daemon. I think the show successfully set up Daemon rightfully as the villain, but because it didn’t feature powerpoint presentations during the scenes with someone explaining things like subtext and character blocking ppl were I guess like he’s so dreamy and then we’re shocked that Daemon showed his true colors in the finale by choking Rhaenyra in anger when she pulled rank. it was frustrating reading people’s opinions.

I don’t think GRRM is a dirty old man jerk off motion, sorry ladies. That doesn’t mean I think he’s some ~male feminist icon, either, that’s ridiculous. I will say I find the ASOIAF books get more porny as they go on, but in like specific weird instances. I haven’t read them in a second so I would need to search the passages to show what I mean and I’m just not doing that today.

I’m not interested in hearing how I’m wrong by people who haven’t read the books. If people have read the books and disagree with me, I welcome that discussion. But it’s so clear when people haven’t read the books and will just say made up shit they’re way too confident in.

[sweetestpopcorn]

There are so many similarities between Viserys ii and Tywin Lannister.

Both their mother died when they were young.

Loved their wives a lot, who either left them of died.

Became stern after this. Though tywin was always stern.

Had 3 kids - 1 daughter and 2 sons.

Both were poor fathers. We know about tywin, but Viserys had no concern for Naerys when he forced her to marry Aegon.

Both their son's joined kingsguard.

Both were Hands by the age of 20 and very good at it. De facto rulers.

What say you popcorn?

Hi there! 🤗

I must confess I am not a fan of parallels, or of saying this character is just like that character. On the one hand, if that was the case, George would be doing a pretty bad job as a writer by giving us characters that are redundant, or copies of each other. On the other hand, most parallels that people use are so weak and general that they can apply for any two characters (e.g., has their house's look, has a son/daughter named X, had X children, loved to fly, had a paramour, lost their mother...).

Here let me show you how easy it is by showing you the "parallels" between Daemon and his son Aegon III. There are quite a lot of them.

Both married a Targaryen and a Velaryon woman (i.e., Laena and Rhaenyra; Jaehaera and Daenaera).

Both had three daughters and two sons (i.e., Baela, Rhaena, Aegon, Viserys, and Visenya; Daeron, Baelor, Daena, Rhaena, and Elaena).

Both lost their mothers when they were young.

Both were sons of a very famous prince (i.e., Baelon Targaryen “The Spring Prince” and Daemon Targaryen “The Rogue Prince).

Both had a brother named Viserys with whom they were close in their childhood (such closeness in their adult years was only maintained between Aegon III and his brother).

Both had two sons that became kings (i.e., Aegon III and Viserys II; Daeron I and Baelor I).

Both had their claim at one point challenged by a woman, and both later married that woman (i.e., Rhaenyra and Jaehaera).

Both had a very unfortunate and unhappy arranged first marriage (Daemon with Rhea Royce and Aegon III with Jaehaera Targaryen).

Both were skilled fighters.

I can even add, both were dragonriders, and Targaryens on both sides.

See? Quite a lot of things, but do they matter? Are they deep? I would say no, they aren’t. I used Daemon and his son but I could have easily picked other characters. And I will challenge anyone right here and now to send me characters for me to draw parallels between them. This is juts to show how pointless most parallels are. 

Now are they all irrelevant? No. I believe George himself has compared Dany to Aegon the Conqueror, and their parallels are relevant, and go deeper than irrelevant things that really say very little if anything about two characters. This to say I don’t hate or dislike every two parallels, I just started to grow a deep distaste for them when I start seeing dumb things like:

“Culinary skills”, “Son named Joffrey”, “Loved to Fly” I die a little on the inside.

Comparing now the parallels between Tywin and MVP Viserys.

Both their mother died when they were young. - This is true of such a great list of characters I don’t consider it relevant. It would be like “mother died in childbirth”. Small list of other characters who lost their mothers when they were young just from the top of my head: Aenys, Viserys I, Daemon, Aegon III, Baela, Rhaena, Jon Snow, Daenerys, Cersei, Tyrion, Jaime, Harwin Strong, Larys Strong, Aemma Arryn, Rhaenyra Targaryen, Brandon Stark, Rickon Stark... these are just the ones who instantly popped out.

Loved their wives a lot, who either left them of died. - Tywin was always stern, he was only “happy” with Lady Johanna, yes it got worse after she died but the bar was already low. Meanwhile Viserys II was a charmer who enchanted everyone before Larra left him. Also by stating either “died or left them” I feel it’s forced and not actually the same situation. I would say it would be the same situation if both had been left by their wives, or if both their wives had died.

Became stern after this. Though tywin was always stern. - As you say - very correctly if I might add - Tywin was always stern. If Tywin didn’t really change I don’t find it an accurate parallel.

Had 3 kids - 1 daughter and 2 sons. - Again such a shallow comparison. Back to Daemon and Aegon II who each had 2 sons and 3 daughters. Were they similar? No. 

Both were poor fathers. We know about tywin, but Viserys had no concern for Naerys when he forced her to marry Aegon. - I feel we need to learn more about Viserys and his children before making such a strong statement because we know so little. And being a poor father is true of so many characters - Aegon I, Jaehaerys (sometimes), Viserys I, Balon Greyjoy... 

Both their son's joined kingsguard. - This yes, though in one case it was his heir, and in the other, his second son... not exactly the same situation.

Both were Hands by the age of 20 and very good at it. De facto rulers. - Actually we can’t say this. We don’t know at what age Viserys became Aegon’s Hand. I believe he only did at the end of his brother’s reign but we might need to get back to this if F&B II ever comes out (yes Popcorn making jokes at this hour lol).

The most relevant parallels that I see between Viserys and Tywin would be that they were both considered to be some of the best Hands in the history of Westeros, and both had a daughter who was queen and rumoured to have an affair with her brother who was a knight of the Kingsguard. Where it matters though, I consider Tywin and Viserys to be quite different.

Tywin was someone to whom the ends very much justified the means (i.e., having babies murdered) whilst Viserys II wasn’t that sort of person. Was he that sort of person, he would have gotten rid of Baelor even before he became king and just ceased power for himself. Certainly I can’t see anything that he did that could even be comparable to what Tywin had done to Elia and her children. Another key difference between them was how Tywin was raised for rule (being his father’s heir) and learned from his father’s own mistakes, since Tytos was a weak man. Viserys, on the other hand, was his mother’s youngest son out of five and his father’s second son. He wasn’t expected to ever become king. Both of his parents were also formidable people, none could be called weak by any chance. Let’s not forget Viserys’s mama and papa was the Rogue Prince Daddy Daemon and Rhaenyra Targaryen the Realm’s Delight.

About their daughters while we know the rumours about Cersei to be #facts, about Naerys we know them to be slander Aegon IV tried to throw her way, since nowhere is there something that would lead anyone who has reading comprehension to suggest that she and Aemon were indeed lovers. And another key difference is that Cersei’s line will end, whilst Naerys’s line didn’t and in fact both the Targaryens and the Martells we see in the current asoiaf books have her blood. Not to mention that personality wise, Naerys and Cersei are polar opposites, and maybe drawing the anti-parallels between them would have a LOT of merit as they are more than just skin deep.

Finally we have their deaths and how they came to be, which I think are also worth bringing up. Tywin was killed by Tyrion, and Viserys II was rumoured to be killed by his son Aegon IV. If the latter is indeed true (we don’t know for sure, I have some doubts), this would be a key parallel between them. But... here comes that but again...

While Tyrion’s actions were very much not justified but... we know where he’s coming from and from a very emotional and ignoring laws and ethics for a moment, Tywin earned what he got, Viserys did nothing to Aegon IV, that we know of, but being absent and stern and cleaning after his sh:t the best he could. Again, certainly I cannot image him doing anything of the sort of what Tywin did to Tyrion. If he had, I am positive the history books would have let us know.

So in sum, I see nothing between them strong enough to justify an “Omg they are so similar to each other”.

Funnily enough, we hear Tyrion speaking very well of Viserys II. Not really relevant to the topic but I will leave this right here because we stan MVP Viserys.

All this aside and I really enjoyed this ask, Anon. I got a lot out of my chest not gonna lie here XD and this was a really interesting question.

All the best to you, Anon 🤗

[goodqueenaly]

Howdy! Quick question about marriage in ASOIAF, and you're the expert at that angle. So! I was wondering how old a male heir would be when it was expected for him to marry. I know Willas Tyrell is still unmarried and that seems accepted, but about what age would he (or another male heir to a prominent house) have to be for it to be unusual to be be single? Thanks!

Depends on the heir, depends on the situation. 

Sometimes, a male heir will be married young for some imperative political purpose, especially the quick propagation of the dynasty he represents. Take the case of Aegon the Elder, who was married at 15 to his 13-year-old (full) sister, Helaena; my strong suspicion is that Alicent encourage or outright arranged that match herself (with Viserys’ agreement, of course) so that the Hightower-Targaryen faction could start producing heirs of its own as quickly as possible. Randyll Tarly married his (second) son and heir Dickon to Eleanor Mooton when Dickon was no older than 13 (and his description as a “young squire” in the AFFC Appendix may suggest that he is even younger) to solidify his political position in and control over Maidenpool. I think you can also count Joffrey and Aegon III here as well, as while they were reigning kings when they were married they were still young and their marriages were being decided for them by their ruling authority figures (and so were treated more like royal heirs than rulers in their own right); Joffrey was of course married at 13 to preserve the Lannister-Tyrell alliance which had won the day for the Baratheon-Lannister regime at the Blackwater (and was expected to consummate his marriage right away, to create new heirs for that regime), while Aegon III was married first to Jaehaera Targaryen (to bind up the black and green factions after the Dance) and then to Daenaera Velaryon (the idea being that Aegon would choose a new queen on whom he could father an heir right away, though of course Daenaera was only six when she was chosen and wouldn’t have any children with Aegon for a number of years). 

This is not always the case, though, and a male heir may remain unmarried well into adulthood (by our standards as well as Westerosi). Take the case of Willas Tyrell, who remains unwed into his mid-20s and possibly as much as his early 30s; a combination of societal ableism and keen political ambition on the part of House Tyrell have kept Willas a bachelor for so long, but given the flourishing of House Tyrell there is not so great pressure to propagate the dynasty through Willas (and indeed, second son Garlan’s marriage may be extra insurance to this end). Edmure Tully also stayed unmarried well into his 20s and likewise possibly into his 30s, and without the benefit Willas has of numerous family heirs to secure the dynasty; my guess would be that Hoster’s marital ambitions would not let him settle for anyone he deemed not good enough for his only son, but that once his cancer started, Hoster was unable to pursue the matter as vigorously, and Edmure didn’t care enough to do it for him. Ryon Allyrion, the only known child of the Lady of Godsgrace, doesn’t seem to have married until he was in his 30s (although it’s obviously possible that he was married before he wed Ynys Yronwood and his prior wife or wives died), though we’re given no reason why he would have waited. Corlys Velaryon was at least 24, and possibly as old as 37, before he became Lord of the Tides and master of Driftmark, yet he didn’t marry Princess Rhaenys until 90 AC, when he was 37, without ever having been married or even betrothed prior to then. 

It can also be the case that a male heir is betrothed, possibly young, without being married right away. Brandon Stark was about 14 when he was betrothed to Catelyn Tully, but he was still unmarried at his death at age 20 (though I do think Rickard was hoping for a double wedding in 282 AC - first Brandon to Catelyn, then Lyanna to Robert). Tywin seems to have been betrothed to cousin Joanna while still young, though he didn’t actually marry her until he was 21. Harrold Hardyng, heir presumptive to the Vale, has of course recently been betrothed to “Alayne Stone”, at the age of 18; it’s unclear how or for how long that betrothal might have operated in ordinary circumstances, given the ostensibly multi-year plan of the Winged Knights (and it’s very possible Anya Waynwood hoped that Harry would use and abandon “Alayne” as he had his previous two sexual partners, freeing himself from the condition that “Alayne” would have to “win” him), though I think Littlefinger is going to push for a marriage much sooner rather than later. 

And then it’s important to note that there are plenty of male heirs whose marital status is totally unknown despite them being into adulthood. Is Addam Marbrand, a childhood friend of Jaime’s (and so presumably around Jaime’s age), married or betrothed? Is Harrion Karstark, eldest brother of the now-16-year-old Alys, married or betrothed? Is Brynden Blackwood, who is at least 18 if not older now, betrothed or married? Is Horas Redwyne, likewise at least 18, betrothed or married? GRRM hasn’t said, and so it’s even harder to give an across-the-board answer.

[ericanoelle]

Dude what if Petyr and Sansa met when Petyr was young?

Me going back on my bullshit- Tumblr what if series.

For this to work, Petyr would have had to be born in Sansa's generation and not Catelyn. Meaning, he never would have had his villain origin story. Catelyn would have married Ned still and Lysa still would have married Jon Arryn. Never having been force fed moon tea, Lysa probably would have had more children with Jon Arryn and been less.....odd. Probably had a better relationship with her sister.

Young Petyr would still have caught the eye of Jon Arryn, and would have still been working in Gulltown, bringing the Baelish house more money because he would still be good with numbers.

I still picture Petyr being at least five or six years older than Sansa.

Jon Arryn is still hand of the king and things in Kings Landing are still incesty as ever. The only difference is Littlefinger is not there to stir shit up.

Sansa is betrothed to Joffrey but she has never met him. Jon Arryn brings Petyr to King's Landing to work on the small council, but again, he isn't this hardened Machiavellian character we know in the books. He does things a bit more honestly. Meaning, he doesn't plot to start the war of the five kings. He stays out of it and does his job.

When Sansa is 16, she is brought to King's Landing and marry's Joffrey. This is a nightmare. He is cruel to her from the first moment they marry and Petyr begins to take a soft spot for the princess. Jon Arryn discovers Cersei's secret but in this, Jaime and her kill him before he can tell anyone. When Cersei kills Robert soon after, Tywin is brought in as hand of the king. Joffrey becomes King and controlling him is not easy.

Sansa, also, never falls with child due to Joffrey's.....incest issues.

Petyr is the one who ends up cleaning Sansa up, healing her wounds and they begin an affair. At first Sansa is horrified by what she has done but the affair continues. Joffrey's abuse and torment in court begins to slowly break both Sansa and Petyr of that shared innocence they had. Eventually, when Sansa is about 20, she becomes with child but its Petyr's- not Joffrey's.

In desperation to ensure that both Sansa and their child is cared for, Petyr plans to kill the king. He is clever about it. He does not do it in a manner such as he did with Brandon Stark. Tommen is engaged to Margaery and the Tyrell's want their precious flower on the throne. Petyr is the one who arranges this match and is given Harrenhal for his trouble. He conspires with Olenna to kill Joffrey but instead of his own wedding, he dies at Tommen's.

This throws the line of succession into question, everything depends upon whether or not Sansa gives birth to a boy.

She doesn't. She has a daughter. She requests to take her daughter, Princess Lyanna Baratheon (the name was to spite Cersei) to Winterfell. Tywin and Tommen (the new king) agrees because while Sansa was essentially Joffrey's prisoner while Queen, she still was on the throne and thus the Starks were not enemies of the Lannisters. (I also imagine Ned and Cate being kept in the dark about this).

Sansa goes back to Winterfell with her daughter and Petyr eventually decides to return try and repair Harrenhal. When the mourning period has passed, he offers for Sansa's hand and since she is a free lady, she agrees.

Petyr and Sansa raise their daughter and other children in the Riverlands, away from the politics of Kings Landing. Eventually bending the knee with Daenerys Targaryen comes across the Narrow Sea.

[wrestlingisfake]

AEW Fake Rankings, 9/25/2021

Men's singles division - babyfaces

CM Punk

Bryan Danielson

Jon Moxley (GCW world champion)

Chris Jericho

Cody Rhodes

Darby Allin

Christian Cage (Impact men's world champion)

Eddie Kingston

Orange Cassidy

Brian Pillman, Jr.

Men's singles division - heels

Kenny Omega (AEW men's world champion, AAA mega champion)

Miro (AEW TNT champion)

MJF

Malakai Black

Adam Cole

Andrade El Idolo

Matt Hardy

Powerhouse Hobbs

Shawn Spears

Daniel Garcia*

Unranked: Brian Cage, Dante Martin, Dustin Rhodes, Frankie Kazarian, Feugo Del Sol, Jake Hager, John Silver, Lance Archer, Lee Johnson, Matt Sydal, PAC, QT Marshall

* Not listed on official AEW website roster

A big talking point lately is that AEW's roster has gotten pretty huge. One effect of this expansion is that it's a major pain in the ass for me to keep track of all the wrestlers who mainly compete on the YouTube shows. Going forward, I'll be focusing on the performers who have wrestled in the past 30 days on television or pay-per-views.

There's concern that the big stars from other major-league companies (mostly WWE) will crowd out the wrestlers who came up from the minors. That issue became more clear to me when I put together the above list. Twelve of my men's top 20 came to AEW best known for their WWE runs, and Omega made his name in New Japan. So if you expected AEW to be "the best of the rest," you're left with Darby, Eddie, Orange, Pillman, MJF, Hobbs, Garcia, and a bunch of guys in the background.

We'll have to see if this becomes a problem. I'm optimistic that AEW knows what they're doing, and wrestlers will be regularly cycled into and out of the spotlight. But WWE has conditioned wrestling fans to think that if a wrestler only appears on the C-show, then the bookers have totally given up on them. So I don't blame fans for being skeptical that AEW can find a better way. It's on AEW to prove that guys like Brian Cage, Pac, John Silver, Dante Martin, and Lee Johnson will get their day in the sun. And that's not even getting into the dozens of wrestlers that aren't listed above.

Men's tag team division - babyfaces

Lucha Bros. - Rey Fenix & Penta El 0M (AEW tag team champions, AAA tag team champions)

Santana & Ortiz

Jurassic Express - Luchasaurus & Jungle Boy

Evil Uno & Stu Grayson

Chuck Taylor & Wheeler YUTA*

Men's tag team division - heels

The Young Bucks - Matt Jackson & Nick Jackson

Men of the Year - Ethan Page & Scorpio Sky

FTR - Cash Wheeler & Dax Harwood

The Butcher & The Blade

Private Party & Marq Quen & Isiah Kassidy

2point0 - Matt Lee & Jeff Parker

TH2 - Jack Evans & Angelico

* Not listed on official AEW website roster

At any given time, AEW has about 16-20 active tag teams, but a lot of them are mainly on Dark and Elevation. Limiting the rankings to teams that have been on real TV in the past month gives us just twelve men's teams. Then again, that's still more than you'll see on most other wrestling shows.

I think it's important that three of the heel teams (Butcher/Blade, Quen/Kassidy, Evans/Angelico) are in Matt Hardy's stable, so it feels like Matt is begging for one of those teams to break away and turn face. The Dark Order also features three teams (Uno/Grayson, John Silver/Alex Reynolds, Alan Angels/Preston Vance), but their storyline about internal problems could break up one or more of those pairings, if not the entire faction. Interestingly, they've started to set up a feud between the entire Hardy Family Office and the sort-of reunited Dark Order, which may be where they blow off a lot of these issues.

Women's division - babyfaces

Ruby Soho

Kris Statlander

Thunder Rosa

Anna Jay

Tay Conti

Hikaru Shida

Big Swole

Riho

Red Velvet

Leyla Hirsch

Women's division - heels

Britt Baker (AEW women's world champion)

Jade Cargill

Nyla Rose

The Bunny

Penelope Ford

Jamie Hayter

Abadon

Diamante*

Unranked: Emi Sakura, Kiera Hogan*, KiLynn King*

* Not listed on official AEW website roster

AEW doesn't do a lot of women's matches on Dynamite and Rampage, but because of the battle royale on the 9/4 pay-per-view some of the overlooked ladies managed to make the cut.

We've seen some alliances forming in this division, which has stoked talk of introducing a women's tag team championship. However, it looks like AEW has other plans, involving a new women's TBS title to complement the men's TNT title.

I don't think the women's roster is deep enough to support any new belts. That doesn't mean I don't want a secondary title or a tag title. I do. But I'm not convinced that introducing a new title will commit AEW to actually push more wrestlers and expand the roster. That commitment is what I really want; new belts are just gravy.

Part-time/semi-retired: Chavo Guerrero Jr., Homicide, Karl Anderson (Impact men's tag team champion), Luke Gallows (Impact men's tag team champion), Mark Henry, Minoru Suzuki, Rebel, Sting, Tully Blanchard, Paul Wight

I don't get the impression that Homicide and Suzuki will be sticking around for very long. Aside from them, all AEW is getting from the "forbidden door" these days is Gallows and Anderson, and all they do lately is stand in the back of Kenny Omega's entourage. These crossovers have been fun and all, but they've been more like Green Lantern/Silver Surfer than JLA/Avengers, if you get my drift.

The Dan Lambert/American Top Team storyline appears to be setting up some kind of match involving Junior dos Santos, Jorge Masvidal, Paige VanZant, and a bunch of other MMA jagoffs I can't be bothered to remember. We'll see if that actually happens, or if they just jerk around about it for another two months.

No TV or PPV matches in 30 days: Aaron Solo, Alan Angels, Alex Reynolds, Anthony Bowens, Austin Gunn, Billy Gunn, Colt Cabana, Colten Gunn, Griff Garrison, Joey Janela, Luther, Marko Stunt, Max Caster, Nick Comoroto, Peter Avalon, Preston Vance, Ricky Starks (FTW champion), Shawn Dean, Sonny Kiss, Wardlow

This doesn't include people like Julia Hart and Serpentico, who regularly appear for AEW but aren't on the official roster and apparently aren't under contract. Regardless, this gives you a good sense of which wrestlers would be the "AEW Dark roster," if we treated it like a separate brand or something. It'll be interesting to check in a few months which of these names are still stuck in this category.

No matches in 30 days: Anthony Ogogo, Brandi Rhodes, Brandon Cutler, Christopher Daniels, Leva Bates, Michael Nakazawa, Sammy Guevara, Yuka Sakazaki

As huge as AEW's roster is, it's impressive that only eight wrestlers are listed here. Guevara has a match set for 9/29, and Daniels is doing a little crossover thing on Impact Wrestling. Brandi just got back from maternity leave, and while I assume she plans to get back in the ring, that remains to be seen. As for the others, it's possible some of these people have injuries or are taking time off, and the details just haven't gotten out.

Inactive

Darius Martin (knee - unspecified ACL injury)

Hangman Page (paternity leave)

Kip Sabian (undisclosed injury)

Serena Deeb (left knee - unspecified injury)

Trent Beretta (neck - herniated intervertebral disc)

The big story here is Page, who was being set up for a major run for Kenny Omega only to suddenly lose his title shot and disappear from the show. That left everyone pretty anxious for Page to get back, especially since a wave of big new stars could crowd him out of his spot. I'm sure AEW knows when Hangman is scheduled to return, but there's no way for any of us to figure it out, which is frustrating.

Trent had neck fusion surgery, which has a notoriously slow recovery time; I don't expect him to be on TV until the middle of 2022. I haven't seen any kind of timetable for Sabian or Martin, probably because there are so few details available about the extent of their injuries.

Deeb had knee surgery in March, returned to the ring in May, and went back on the shelf in July. Evidently she came back too soon, and she's still rehabbing the original knee injury. I worry about that kind of thing when I see Britt Baker (or Impact's Chelsea Green) working through a broken wrist.

[dwellordream]

Hi, I’m the one who asked you about the multi gender swap story the other day, with the youngest members of each house being female, I know you said you wouldn’t be interested in writing it or probably reading it, but I’m wondering if you can help me out with one particular point? I’m completely blind, and it takes me an absolute age to go through all the source material, plus half of it isn’t accessible, and I’m very confused as to what ages the characters would be During Roberts Rebellion

I can give you the ages of major house members in 282 AC, which is when the Rebellion officially began:

Brandon Stark - 20

Ned Stark - 19

Lyanna Stark - 15 or 16, depending on if she was born in 266 or 267 AC

Benjen Stark - 15 or younger. The oldest year he could have been born is 267 AC.

Robert Baratheon - 20

Stannis Baratheon - 18/19 (born in early 264 AC, while Robert was born in late 262 AC, making them roughly a year apart)

Renly Baratheon - 5

Elbert Arryn - Unknown, likely around the same age as Brandon and Ned

Denys Arryn - Unknown, likely in his twenties, as he was Keeper of the Gates of the Moon, married, and expecting his first child by 283 AC

Rhaegar Targaryen - 23

Viserys Targaryen - 6

Elia Martell - 25 or 26, depending on if she was born in 256 or 257 AC

Rhaenys Targaryen - born at the end of 280 AC, so Rhaenys would have been 1 at the start of 282 AC

Aegon Targaryen - born either at the very end of 281 AC or the beginning of 282 AC, so an infant under the age of one in 282 AC

Doran Martell - 34 or 35, depending on if he was born in 247 or 248 AC

Oberyn Martell - 24 or 25, depending on if he was born in 257 or 258 AC

Obara Sand - 10 or 11, depending on if she was born in 271 or 272 AC

Nymeria Sand - 7 or 8, depending on if she was born in 274 or 275 AC

Tyene Sand - 6 or 7, depending on if she was born in 276 or 277 AC

Sarella Sand - 1 or 2, depending on if she was born in 280 or 281 AC

Arianne Martell - 6

Quentyn Martell - 1

Catelyn Tully - 17 or 18, depending on if she was born in 264 or 265 AC

Lysa Tully - 15 or 16, depending on if she was born in 266 or 267 AC

Edmure Tully - anywhere from 8 to 15, as he was born somewhere between 267 and 274 AC

Petyr Baelish - 14

Cersei Lannister - 16

Jaime Lannister - 16

Tyrion Lannister - 9

Willas Tyrell - anywhere from 6 to 13, as he was born somewhere between 269 and 276 AC

Garlan Tyrell - 5

Loras Tyrell - infant born in 282 AC

Rodrik Greyjoy - anywhere from 8 to 15, as he was born somewhere between 267 and 274 AC

Maron Greyjoy - anywhere from 7 to 14, as he was born somewhere between 268 and 275 AC

Asha Greyjoy - 6 or 7, depending on if she was born in 275 or 276 AC

Theon Greyjoy - 3 or 4, depending on if he was born in 278 or 279 AC

[bighengreads]

Discovering fantasy, in adulthood

For my 25th birthday, a friend bought me a book. We’d spent a lot of times recommending books to one another, but those recommendations never got followed through for one major reason - he basically only read fantasy novels, and I hadn’t touched one since I was 13.

Fantasy novels were something that only existed in my childhood, in the form of Diana Wynne Jones escapades and sprawling series like Harry Potter, Pendragon, and Eragon series. Becoming a very emotional teenager meant that I stopped looking for adventure in fantastical worlds, and looked for books that could relate and expand on the vast swirling cesspit of hormonal emotions I was experiencing. I took to stories solidly grounded in reality and characters with a rich, tumultuous inner world with bare and stark foregrounds (sometimes, the smallest semblance of plot). Books, where when someone asked me what it was about, I would struggle to explain it. 

To be honest, this fixation on emotional catharsis meant that my relationship with books became tiring. My early 20′s were years of picking up books that I could put down with little to no resistance. 

With this mindset, when I picked up the first book of Brandon Sanderson’s Mistborn trilogy, The Final Empire, I expected an easy read that would not leave much of an impression. I ended up finishing the first volume in a week, and the entire trilogy in a month and a half, which was pretty astounding for someone who was averaging 6 books a year. 

It was immediately obvious what a behemoth of a task world-building in fantasy is. The author has the huge task of introducing not only plot and character, but the intrinsic laws of the universe that they occupy. 

It was an uncomfortable initially, where every new creature and environment felt reminiscent of a dungeons and dragon or lord of the rings scene (my only reference point for fantasy based storytelling). But when I let those pre-conceptions go, what I was left with was a growing attachment to these relatable characters (mystical powers or not), and a stronger and stronger immersion into these fantastical, and yet sociologically comprehensive societies. 

What struck me was how cinematic the experience was. Perhaps this is more an attribute to Sanderson’s dynamic writing, or more relating to action-heavy novels, but I could see every scene come to life in my mind. Fight scenes that extended to 15 pages played out like a high-budget film, with the added joy of a clever and exciting battle strategy dialogue playing along like the narrative of a director’s cut.

This experience opened my eyes to a whole new world. For one of the first times since I was a teenager, I had to keep turning the pages to find out what happened next. I was excited by what I was reading, and sometimes had to stop to catch my breath. 

With all the richness of this wonderful new world, there were some teething problems for me as well. The Mistborn world is jammed packed with themes, ranging from political strategy, to theological philosophy, to chemical alchemy, and the characters are the ones that carry these concepts to reality. But with some of the main characters, I found that their motivations and supposed relationships were more “told” than “seen”. 

(Spoilers ahead)

One example of this is the mechanisms used to remind us of the main protagonist, Vin’s traumatic past and her inability to let go of her survival instincts. It’s a rhetoric drilled into us at every major decision point, almost as though the author is saying “hey! Remember this plot point? It’s important for later so don’t forget!”. Vin’s character suffers from another standpoint, with her romantic relationship with Elend, which is a major driving force in the entire series, had the effectiveness a soggy slice of bread floating in a duck pond - every profession of love felt wholly unearned and painfully cringy. 

Another big issue I had was the pacing throughout the series. It was especially apparent in the last instalment, Hero of the Ages. Here we are at the convergence of all the plot and folklore the first two books spent beautifully crafting, and what did they decide to do with all the build up? They sent us on a wild goose chase (literally) of boredom, convoluted side-plots, and a building irritation at the fact that they were using up precious real estate that should have been used to answer all the questions that the series had us asking. 

The Mistborn series had the huge challenge of taking this sprawling world and delivering a satisfying ending. It did that, and it delivered it beautifully (even though I still don’t understand why they jammed all of it in the last quarter of the book instead of spreading it out). 

(Spoilers end)

After all that, I have to say that reading the Mistborn series was one of the literary highlights of my adult life. It allowed me to recapture the thrill of staying up to finish a book even when you have work/school the next day, and I was really blown away by the sheer love and craft that went into constructing this world. It also opened up my eyes to tasting more of what the world of fantasy has to offer.,