#Being entitled and defensive isn't the way dude

[selfshipseaside]

Also sidenote to everyone: my blog *is* discourse free. I mean this in the way of *ship discourse*. If I'm talking about community issues, it's not meant to be discourse or negativity. I'm discussing our community which can be largely problematic unfortunately, but I'm here as a bringer of positivity and activism. Sometimes activism and talking about the community involves not so nice things like racism, exclusion, an other topics that very much are in our community that I have also talked about previously. That isn't, in my mind, what this site considers "discourse". Discourse on a technical level is discussion, not inherently negative. But this site has a negative connotation to the word so I'm making the distinction now. This blog is ship discourse free. I don't do that here. I've also always mentioned it to be *specifically* ship discourse. I write cute stuff, remind people that they are worth the world and more, talk about the community, ask questions to you all, and give people in our community a space to speak so long as they aren't bigoted/hateful/looking to cause drama and stir up "discourse". Anything I say isn't meant to provoke people, start drama, or fight and debate others. I state this very clearly every time. Racism in our community isn't discourse. It's racism, it needs to be talked about. Excluding people in the community isn't discourse. It's exclusion, and it needs to be talked about. If people in my ask box have something to say about the community, I'll give them a space to speak. We all deserve to be heard so long as we aren't being assholes. There are things in the community that are unspoken that deserve to be talked about, not swept to the side for people to wade through with no explanation and to feel left out of this unspoken loop. I don't agree with people who think "C'mon guys let's just not fight or talk about all this stuff let's all get along!" Because that would mean allowing bigoted people, knowingly or unknowingly, get away with their actions and allowing them to alienate people who deserve to be here. By staying silent, people who get pushed to the side in our community stay that way. Curating positivity includes letting others know that you are thinking about them, even when it's talking about their insecurities and feelings about the community that might be bad feelings. So, I'll continue to talk to you guys and get your input. I'll continue to write cute stuff for you to feed your daydreams. And I'll continue to talk about what needs to be talked about. I love self-shipping, and I love self-shippers, I want our community to thrive on us uplifting each other and being in love with our f/os! But, sometimes it gets complicated, and it can't ever just be that when it's a whole community of people with thoughts and feelings. I see the good, the bad, and the ugly. So I'll talk about it. I'm not here for discourse, I'm here for community and solidarity.

[redditantisemitism]

Here’s an interesting one-is this antisemitism? I think so. Let’s discuss:

First, the context. This comment was left on a post containing this meme, poking fun at the messianic “Jews” (they aren’t Jewish) and antisemitic Christians that appropriate Pesach.

Now. This person does make a few correct statements, and I’ll give them credit. They’re right that a lot of Christians and Christianity are antisemitic. But with that out of the way, let’s look at the myriad of ways they’re so very wrong:

I'm not going to pretend to know a lot about Passover

User admits that they are not qualified to be making judgements. As a Christian it isn't their place to tone police Jews anyways, but especially since they admit that they have no idea what they're talking about.

I would refrain from throwing all Christians under the bus

I'm sure they would. That isn't what is happening though, and framing it like this highlights their defensiveness- they aren't trying to have a productive conversation, they just don't like seeing Christianity being portrayed this way. Playing the victim, and not for the last time.

The Catholic church has largely been the main culprit here

Interestingly, there is a Catholic elsewhere in the thread blaming the Protestants. Typical Protestant vs. Catholic stuff, and this user is using it to attempt to distance themself from the "bad" Christians. Also, in my experience, almost every Christian "seder" I've seen or heard of has been held by a Protestant sect of some sort.

it's important to know that all the while the persecution was happening to jews by christians, there have been other christians speaking out against it.

More of the same, see above. "not all Christians!"

Please don't forget about the Christians who are willing to lay down their lives for the Jewish people.

Here's where the fetishization starts. Also, literally nobody asked you to do that, don't use us to feed your martyr complex. Also also, where exactly are these Christians, because they've been doing a shitty job.

Christians like myself are perfectly capable of seeing Yeshua in the Passover without changing it, or preaching to you up and down about it.

And this is where the explicit antisemitism starts, as opposed to the red flags we've been seeing. This person, based on their language, seems to be some sort of "Torah believing Christian"- something inherently appropriative and antisemitic.

Furthermore, YOU SHOULD NOT BE SEEING JESUS IN PASSOVER. That is, at best, idiotic, and at worst, actively antisemitic. It's certainly supercessionist. JEWISH TEXTS DO NOT PROPHESIZE JESUS. Christians should not be touching Pesach uninvited in ANY way, regardless of if they change things or not.

Yeshua didn't change it and neither should we

This person demonstrates an astounding level of ignorance. Any modern Seder would HAVE to be different than any Seder Jesus might have held (assuming he even existed), because it is impossible to do it like him. There is no temple to offer animal sacrifices at, like there would have been at the time. Regardless, not only should Christians not be changing seders, they shouldn't be touching it.

They then rant for a while about how Easter is bad. Which. My dude. That's your holiday. Go fuck around with that and leave Jews alone.

Please have patience and a soft heart for Christians who believe that:

More "not all Christians", this time with an added level of playing the victim. Hard pass.

-Jews don't need to be converted

Even stopped clocks are right twice a day.

-Christians have the holidays and events wrong

Uh? No? Is this some weird Christian intracommunity thing? Your holidays are your holidays, leave ours alone.

-the dietary laws were upheld by yeshua

Regardless of if this is true or not, Jesus was Jewish. This poster isn't. Kosher is for Jews. Christians aren't entitled to Jewish practice just because they worship a Jew.

-all of the torah was upheld by yeshua

see previous bullet point.

-the Jews are the chosen people of God

Typical Christian misunderstanding of "Chosen". "Chosen" to uphold the mitzvot, not to be better, or put on a pedestal. This is another example of how they fetishize Jews, and it does not get better.

-the Jews come first

See previous bullet point. Fetishization like this is disgusting and harmful. It removes humanity and personhood from Jews, instead presenting us as some mystical object of worship that we never claimed to be and can never live up to. We are not a zoo exhibit, we are a vibrant and living culture.

-salvation is of the Jews

See previous bullet point. We are people, not a tool for your salvation.

-the Jews have been entrusted with the words of Yah*weh

See previous bullet point. Also super disrespectful to just throw that name around in Jewish spaces, but I don't know what I expected from an antisemitic, philosemitic Jew fetishist.

-we should be suffering with the Jews, not against them

WE ARE NOT FUEL FOR YOUR MARTYR COMPLEX. Plenty of Jewish suffering would be alleviated if Christians like this person would just leave us alone. But they don't actually want Jewish suffering to stop, because then they'd lose a tool and a way to play victim.

they end with a plea not to lump all Christians together with the "bad" ones- something literally nobody was doing. Once again, it's a lot of "Not all Christians!!!" and their own self-victimhood. They say not all Christians are "like that", which is true. But this one certainly is.

Chag Pesach sameach everybody, and stay off the fuss bus.

[jellycreamjammedart]

This might be a risky hot take but

Some of you "Gregory Defenders" are starting to annoy the absolute hell out of me

And this isn't about the "whether Gregory is innocent or guilty" side of the argument you're on, but about how obnoxious and unhinged some of y'all are about it regardless of the "side" you're on.

Not everyone in the fandom is going to like Gregory, nor will everyone see him as innocent. Some may even say he's a cold and manipulative backstabber, or that he's only popular because of "male protag privilege". And you know what, that's actually all okay and valid. And you know why?

Because Gregory is not real.

"He's only like 12!!!!" he's not real.

"He's just a child!!!" he's not real.

"He's not guilty he was brainwashed!!" he's not real.

"He's only trying to protect himself he doesn't deserve hate!!!" Let people dislike/hate him if they want, it won't affect Gregory at all because he's not real.

It's not like people are bullying a real child. He's a fictional character, in case y'all ever forgot that detail.

Actually no, I am SURE y'all forgot that detail, with how you treat people who dislike him as if it was an actual moral issue and paint them as evil for not sharing your image of your perfect cinnamon roll gremlin boy.

"How DARE you say Gregory's not innocent? How can you HATE him he's just a kid!!! It's not his fault STOP punishing him!!! How evil do you have to be to blame a literal child!!!? You're disgusting!!!" HE'S NOT FUCKING REAL.

Where in the fucking hell is it okay to label a person as evil or bully them for like, liking Cassie (another fictional character in case you also forgot) over Gregory??

Yes this also goes to y'all who approach people unprompted to tell them like a lawyer why Gregory is not to blame, especially with how condescending and obnoxious you are about it, pretty much reeking the vibe of "I'm telling you how wrong you are for blaming Gregory because you're clearly stupid for not believing otherwise, here's why I'm right and why my vision of this character is the correct one."

I'm sick of "Gregory defense lawyers" coming to my inbox after my ramblings about Cassie blaming Gregory for the elevator drop all condenscendingly like "Ummm actually you can't do that because Gregory is innocent it was all the Mimic in case you missed the details blah blah-" did I fucking ask???

(Unless people seem confused or are new to the fandom and they ask, then you may be entitled to tell them... but I still suggest being unbiased and focusing on canon aspects only rather than your personal opinion about it.)

Don't even get me started on y'all's flat out hostility towards people who don't like Gregory

"If you think Gregory did anything wrong ever I'LL FUCKING FIGHT YOU" is this really all that necessary to protect a kid that doesn't even exist??? Is it worth ending friendships or snuffing out potential new friendships with other real people over??? Worth bullying and witch-hunting other real people whose only apparent crime was loving the same franchise as you? How can you be proud of that?

(Unless you mean you will fight people in that memey or shitpost way then idc keep being a silly little guy actually)

"But I adore Gregory, and he's my favorite character!! It makes me really upset when people hate him/make art/write about him being guilty or blamed, or say Cassie is better! I don't agree with it!!" ... then why are you making yourself upset by checking out content about Gregory that you don't like? Like... dude.

People are going to create stuff about Gregory (or any other fictional character really,) that won't always align with you. And they're entitled to do it, no matter how wrong you think they are! Instead of policing what other people create about your blorbo, just look away and seek content about them that you actually like. If a particular creator's vision on Gregory is too much of a deal-breaker for you, just block and blacklist and move on. Or create the content you want yourself instead of badgering other people.

Also keep in mind that Gregory being antagonized in a fic/art/etc doesn't always translate to the authors hating him, chances are they're just writting it from other characters' perspectives who may have whatever beef with him in the given setting, so don't go jumping to conclusions either. And even if the antagonism does come from the author's personal bias, that still gives you no right to harrass them anyways.

I will continue liking Cassie over Gregory and I do think she's better and I will continue rambling about Cassie hating Gregory for believing he betrayed her even if it was the Mimic, because it is an interesting scenario, and I personally think the whole GGY thing was dumb and unnecessary (he could still have been an interesting character as just an unlucky homeless boy without any sinister plot-twist.) That's it; There's no fucking need to make it about morality, ffs. If you don't like that, ignore it, or unfollow me if it's that much of a deal-breaker for you.

All y'all are doing is giving reasonable Gregory fans a bad name, and actually making people dislike him further by oversaturating him and forcing him into a source of stress and disdain rather than enjoyment for them, where people start actually getting sick of seeing him around (and I feel that myself already.)

Let people dislike Gregory for whatever reason.

By the way...

You "Gregory Haters" are annoying me as well

As entitled as you are to your opinion about this annoying manipulative liar of a brat, there are people who share a different sentiment about him. Let them.

You don't have to reblog or comment on someone's post how much they adore Gregory to tell why you hate him, or go to the spaces of Gregory fans to spew why you hate so much this little guy they like. That's just fucking mean and rude. Make your own post, or go to the spaces that share your opinion.

Quit making people feel bad for liking a character you dislike. If you don't like Gregory, why are you even bothering to check out content about him, then? Check out content about characters you LIKE. I bet that'd make you much happier than spending your time regurgitating your hate over someone's creation about a character they like but you don't and unsurprisingly start an argument about it. Look for things you like, block and blacklist stuff and people about your hated character if you gotta but leave them alone

Let people like Gregory for whatever reason, too.

Let people see Gregory however way they see fit.

Because this bears repeating: He's not real. He's a fictional character. He's a tool. Let people use him however way they see fit to drive a story or scenario; that's his purpose, as a fictional character.

[runthepockets]

Tbh I'm really tired of battle of the sexes wars. Like, if it isn't cis men and women arguing over who has it harder, it's trans men and women doing the same shit. It's article after article of (rightfully) angry women talking about swearing off dating and sex forever due to dudes being so perverted and invasive, and the worst men you've ever met having their voices amplified in retaliation, both further alienating the women whose approval and affection we so desperately crave and making it harder for other men to talk about legitimate anxieties and struggles we have navigating the world. I hate that articles about high suicide rates and high rates of isolation and depression in men has brought out women who say things like "oh wah wah men's feewings I cannot BELIEVE I have to take RESPONSIBILITY for this CRAP again men are lonely cus they SUCK MEN'S FAILURES are the reason they're miserable", even when none of the studies are implicitly or explicitly blaming women for this problem (and even if they were, there's gotta be a way to deescelate / point out the entitlement of these accusations without victim blaming).

I hate that I end up dating and befriending a lot of feminist women who routinely encourage men to be vulnerable, and then my vulnerability immediately triggers an argument or a shitty dissmissive attitude or me being accused of manipulation, and I hate that those same women having (understandable) biases against men have gotten me up in arms reacting in pretty similar ways. I hate the way men talk about women's bodies when women aren't around. I hate the way women talk about male sexuality when there are no men around. It all feels awful. And I hate that voicing this to queer friends hasn't really gotten me anything but "lol thank god I'm not straight" or something of that nature. I hate how straight relationships have the potential to be just as beautiful and vindicating and empowering as any other human relationship but we're all barred by socioeconomic factors and poor / vastly differing communication skills.

This is why I got so into Men's Liberation two years ago. It gives me a space to vent my feelings and greivances as a straight guy without feeling like a total jerkoff while also being sympathetic to feminist ideals and views. It's very grounding. I can practice run and analyze my greivances after properly grieving in a safe and educated space, then I can approach the women in my life without the cotton between my ears and my defenses lowered instead of immediately shutting down at the first sign of discomfort. It's why I'm so loud about a lot of these issues; I believe everything is connected, and if men and women's lives and experiences and socioeconomic statuses are so deeply intertwined with each other under cishet capitalist white supremacist patriarchy, they need to be intertwined in the process of abolishing it, too. But I can't do that with my trauma and anger dictating my politics, nor can the women that find themselves in my sphere. It's also part of why I stopped hanging out in woman dominated spheres as often; while I'm not going to deny women their right to vent, the anti-male sentiment was debilitating, and I deserve a life free of any more neurosis around my manhood than I already may have (there was also nothing there for me anymore anyway, being a straight dude and all).

I think this is another thing I like about being straight; as nice as it I'm sure it is to never have to worry about these seemingly trivial aspects of "straight culture", and as much as I support gay people having spaces to feel at home in their own skin and to vent about their oppressors, it also seems like it sometimes blinds you to the fact that the "opposite gender" isn't really going anywhere (or that the opposite gender even exists, generally) and gay seperatism isn't a realistic or helpful solution, even for other gay and trans people.

[therealestidealist]

idk dude I'm NT too and something I've learned is that sometimes you don't have to understand something to respect it. so you don't get why commercial art is ok to repost even though it's been explained to you (and frankly you are making bad faith arguments, imo), but it's still been said over and over so clearly it's something people feel is important. I think you ought to consider why instead of acting like a martyr when no one has told you to kys.

(I don't necessarily think the arguments made abt sharing some types of art were all that eloquent but I don't really think you'll listen so I'm not going to try to clarify)

sorry some people were rude to you but you came out the gate very rude and entitled in the original message when they were being polite. being called buddy is neutral, it's not some sort of hatecrime. maybe you had a shitty day or something and were in a bad mood, and this only made that worse, but the way you lashed out was inappropriate. being NT is not an excuse. we are not stupid. we can learn when we fuck up and how to react appropriately despite how ugly our initial reactions to criticism can be. just cause your brain tells you "everyone hates you cause you fucked up" does not make that true. I've learned this the hard way and you probably will too.

i think at this point you are really just being willfully ignorant and standing your ground bc you don't want to admit wrongdoing. I get it but I think it's time to let it go.

and again, some people were rude and you lashed out, but others were polite and you just call them considering. there's no winning and no opportunity for growth or improvement with that attitude. learn to take criticism instead of trying to guilt anyone who has something negative to say about something you did by telling them you're going to kill yourself and that everyone wants you dead. (people are criticizing something you DID, not YOU as a person. there's a difference.)

you're the one suicide baiting. please do better cause I know from experience that behavior won't do you any good.

I hope you can put this behind you because it really was not a big deal until you lashed out. You'll move on and it'll be okay. Just learn what you can from this.

This is exactly what I'm talking about with being talked down to and gaslighting. I didn't fuck up. What I did wasn't art theft. I did a lot of googling about what is and isn't considered stealing art over the past day. I was talked to as if being sat down in time out, picked apart by the public and ridiculed over something that many people don't find egregious at all. My wife is an artist and encouraged me to share the art in the first place. I myself am a sex worker, I've had my work reposted before, sometimes with credit and sometimes without. This isn't to say this particular artist's wishes shouldn't be respected, I took down the post per the artist's request. It's just to say that the way I was treated like I was being taught a lesson over something for which there is no official guidebook or any clear consensus over was very mob-like. I was defensive in my original DMs because I was accused of theft. I don't think what I did was theft because there were credits. Then I was accused of "not trying hard enough to contact the artist". The artist's Tumblr is not connected to their twitter, and they don't even have the same handle. So even if I knew to contact them, to act like it would have been easy to find their Tumblr is simply disingenuous. The person who informed me about this artist's preferences likely just recognized the artist from here already.

No, I'm not arguing in bad faith. You and others in notes are insistent that I just need to listen to and accept what people are accusing me of without question. Don't I get to state my case? The way I was treated was inhuman. That's why I feel as though everyone hated me. I did not "fuck up" and you won't make me believe I fucked up. I am not an idiot. I am not going to just accept being scolded and belittled over something that frankly isn't even a real problem (posting art with credits). The whole distinction over being paid vs not being paid and the accusation that my credits weren't "proper" remain vague. These are not satisfactory explanations to me. No one has tried to clarify to me why it is considered etiquette to do something that so many artists dont even care about. One artist has a message about not sharing their art that I didn't see before sharing it and now I'm an art thief for crediting them? You can see why I am defensive? You can see why this doesn't register as a "fuck up" to me?

This whole thing could have been avoided if I had been linked to the artist's post in the opening message instead of being accused of stealing - which I must emphasize - I DID NOT STEAL. I poured over discussions about art reposting over the past day and have come to the conclusion that I was falsely accused and the intent was to smear me from the start. The way you see the original DM as reasonable honestly sickens me. They were only after some Internet clout and they got it. If you talk like this to your friends and family I feel sorry for them.

You need to step down and reflect on your priorities. Stop siding with manipulators. Stop policing small personal blogs who just want to be left alone. Stop lying about norms/etiquette/courtesies that are far from unanimously agreed upon. You will be remembered as a hateful bully if you continue on acting sanctimoniously and talking down to people instead of engaging with them honestly and thoughtfully, with compassion and a willingness to listen.

[langliblade]

xiao chiye's first and last love

"I am a man burning with ambitions, and Qudu is the teacher that taught me to restrain all those desires. My encounter with Lanzhou did not happen by accident. He was the last line of defense when I was about to hit my limit and lose it. He is also the indulgence and freedom I lost and regained."

**if anyone ever reads this (i doubt it unless i share this on my twt) and anything in here is familiar ...it's bc i rephrased some of my tweets while typing this. anyway.....

desire has always been xiao chiye's shackle.

xiao chiye's haughty young master act was a defense. it was a way to be on guard and to hide his true feelings and intentions. still, it's not like he faked all of that. he's admitted to himself multiple times that he gets pretty crazy about things and he has always been someone unrestrained.

to the criticizing eye of the noble clans and court officials in qudu, they think that xiao chiye has a short temper and is the usual entitled young master especially when he's always with li jianheng. they go to donglong street almost every night to enjoy themselves, to drink and chat until the sun rises, to surround themselves with beautiful women.

so it isn't really surprising that they think xiao chiye is a crazy dude when it comes to sex. of course i say "crazy" as in he's crazy in whatever standards they had.

what no one would believe, or even consider, is that xiao chiye's greatest desire has always only been libei. being sent to qudu wasn't just being separated from his family and his home-- it was also losing his first love.

and isn't it crazy that probably his first experience with love is loss? add that to the fact that the night he slept with lanzhou in the room, the night he thought "wow i am really filled with immense desire for this man", was the night he thought back to his shifu, zuo qianqiu's tragic story. how he loved and how he had to win a battle by letting go of that love.

to him, desire is something that will someday hinder his ambition. it will hinder his comeback to libei, it will be an obstacle for his goal of standing on equals with his father and eldest brother.

"I attempted to survey the horizons for a glimpse of Libei from the top of the tallest building in Qudu, but even Meng could not see it when it flew up into the clouds. It was then I understood for the first time how much of a remote possibility it was to return home."

after the autumn hunt, he realized that it was a mistake to "put all his eggs in one basket" and show off his capability. he thought it would be enough for him to go home, but it only tightened his cage. now that everyone knows he isn't just a haughty young master, they are now even more scared to let him go. they refuse to let him go home and be an even bigger problem in the future.

he has given up on his desire and chose to kept it in.

and then he meets shen zechuan.

shen wei's son that was made to bear the guilt of a hundred thousand deaths. the powerless man who has no one in this world. he too is in his own cage. despite all that, xiao chiye sees that this man still has the desire to live on even if it's "more of an agony than dying".

xiao chiye recognizes himself in him, he sees how he's also just smiling and bearing it for the sake of something else. for the sake of revenge? to go back home? whatever it is, he sees that they're in a similar kind of pain.

"He was the last line of defense when I was about to hit my limit and lose it. He is also the indulgence and freedom I lost and regained." he saw that to have desire is to be human. it isn't just a hindrance, it could also be a way forward. simply by meeting shen lanzhou, by recognizing their shared pain, by understanding him, he had been changed.

his first love was libei, and he lost it.

so the next time he experiences a similar feeling he used to get taming eagles and horses, when riding freely in the open grass, when being a wolf in his nature-- it's not a shock that he becomes obsessed with that feeling immediately. it's not a shock that it starts from lust mingled with the painful grasping for a feeling similar to happiness. it's not a shock that he finds the love he lost in shen zechuan.

[eisforeidolon]

Better and far more legitimate question: why are so many destiel shippers so toxic and entitled that they think not telling them their ship is totes canon is both a personal attack and a hate crime?

Jensen doesn't hate destiel. He just has no particular interest in discussing fans' non-canon shipping and he's made that clear several times. He goes to conventions to talk about his perspective on the show he actually made ... Then gets fans demanding to know why destiel isn't canon because if Dean can fanboy Dr Sexy he must want to fuck him. Then gets fans shoving straight up porn in his face. Then gets fans yelling over him trying to get him to bring up Cass. Then gets fans trying to get him to read essays about how Dean is bisexual to "educate" him about how wrong he is about his own acting and character. Then gets fans wearing T-shirts telling him he's wrong about his own show. Then gets fans stating point blank that goodbye scene was romantic and trying to get him to expound upon that interpretation. And so on.

The vast majority of the time when someone brings the ship up to him? It's belligerently leading questions, trying to talk over him, or creepy invasive sexual shit - that all turns into online slander when he says no, says ship what you want, says nobody at the helm was writing the show that way and he wasn't playing the character that way. Gosh, I can't imagine why he'd be immediately uncomfortable and defensive as soon as the topic comes up given that context! Or why he's overly concerned with the presentation of the character when fans insist Dean literally just making eye contact with another man while talking to him, being a fan of something, or not reacting angrily to another man flirting with him is proof of how "gay" he is. Sure Jensen has said some less than PC things I'd expect of a 30-40 year old dude raised in Texas over the years, but if you really want to talk about who has shitloads of issues with queerness, unfortunate stereotypes, and toxic masculinity they aren't trying to work through? Let's start with all the destiel meta that begins with "lol no straight guy would ever ..." and insisting a guy who *gasp* dares to say he didn't play his character as attracted to men must be a homophobe in denial because he obviously did. 🙄

As to that confession, present an actual source of anybody but Misha and Berens saying any such thing about its intention - I won't hold my breath. At the same convention (Denver 2021) that Jared got so much shit for saying there were all kinds of love and all interpretations were valid and Jensen agreed with him, Misha in his panel with Alex said basically the same thing Jensen reportedly said in a previous M&G about an artist not telling people what to interpret out of an artwork and how he didn't want his interpretation to be the definitive word. But somehow that gets forgotten in all the other more leading, more bait-y shit he's said elsewhere.

Which brings me to my final point. Jensen says ship and headcanon what you want, but sorry, that's not what I intended or what the writers put into the text, it's just fan fantasies - and you lot insist he's a homophobe for not telling you what you want to hear and being uncomfortable when you keep ignoring what he's said and trying to make him give you a different answer. Misha lies to you, makes sly implications, changes his story back and forth constantly, was involved in at least one of those answers agreeing with Jensen about certain dialogue and actions being questionable for the male characters they were playing, all but admits he was falsely leading you on for years when he said he was sure going into season 15 the writers would never go even as far as they did, preps merch to release through his company to capitalize on that scene, and even queerbaits so hard he has to come out as straight - and you live up his ass praising him as some kind of amazing ally.

Well gosh, I wonder if maybe just maybe it's not about understanding or giving a shit about LGBT+ issues and toxic masculinity at all, only feeling entitled to being told your personal interpretations about this one single specific ship are The Real Story of SPN! Actually that's a lie, I don't wonder.

why is jensen ackles so toxic?

i have been a supernatural fan for over ten years and i have known for a while that jensen has never been a fan of destiel, which would be completely fine if he didn't always react uncomfortable and downright disgusted every time someone mentions it and / or the possibility of dean being queer. i have seen him become very defensive and even hostile when asked questions about these things at conventions. to this day jensen (& jared) STILL vehemently call castiel's confession "platonic" and "brotherly" while the writers, showrunners and misha explicitly called it a romantic confession of love.

my problem with jensen's behaviour is that it seems to be rooted in very toxic masculinity and the fragility of it. he has called emotional writing "unmanly" and "effeminate" and "something dean would never say to another man"; he was glad that dean didn't share many scenes with castiel in season 9; he desperately wanted destiel "to go away" and something else that really irks me: so many times when destiel was talked about, he brought up wincest, as if that is in any way the same. he seems to associate queerness with unmanliness, weakness and something to be uncomfortable about.

i can understand that destiel extremists have insulted his wife, insinuated ridiculous things happened between actors etc but this is no excuse for his downright homophobic comments and behaviour. he can also imagine dean however he wants and i know he thinks he understands dean better than anyone but it's so sad to me how much he seems to limit dean in who he could be TO OTHER PEOPLE. who does it harm if a bunch of bi people see themselves in him and his behaviour? i thought jensen understood just how much dean hid from everyone. it makes me sad that he seems to want to forbid other people from interpreting dean differently than he does.

he should really take some time to reflect if dean winchester's non-canon sexuality is really worth coming across homophobic for.

[i-got-the-feels]

In defense of Park Jae-eon.

Yes, you read that right.

No, I am not denying he behaved shitty or making excuses for it. But I don't think he is as irredeemable you all make him out to be and here I am going to talk about scenes I have seen no one talk about.

Besides the fact that he has been honest to all women he slept with that he wanted no long term commitment and emotional attachments.

He defended Na-bi to that entitled guy who talked shit about her because he did not reciprocate his flirty advances.

He called emergency services when he thought Na-bi was sick and locked at her home. And when she came back, he took care of her.

He wanted to make seaweed soup for her birthday and left when Seol-ah called him - not to hook up as many people assume but I think maybe because he thought it was a hospital emergency or something or maybe a call from her reminded him how he is getting too close to Na-bi and that was a scary realisation (again not saying he was right, explaining where he came from)

He volunteered to be her assistant and told her it's because he loved and respected her art and her passion for it- he said this even in the end when he left in the ninth episode.

When working with her, in a quiet moment he told her that he wants to change a bit by bit because he understood that drawing a line after you already crossed it doesn't make any sense and that his earlier belief about drawing lines was wrong.

And then the next episode begins with Jae-eon saying this "distance that's close yet not close to hurt each other" without realising that this limbo of a distance keeping game hurts more in the long-run.

Jae-eon obviously has some issues and doubts when it comes to commitment and long-term relationships with the doubt being is it even possible to have one- as seen in his conversation with the Gyu-Hun (or as I call the thirst trap deep voice beanie dude) with Jae-eon considering stability and certainity in relationship as unrealistic.

And further down the episode, it is hinted that it may have come from his parent's relationship or how his mother handled it-by seeking distance and going to performances. They are distant is clearly seen when the mother says, "let me at least do this" and Jae-Eon looks at her surprised, probably at the fact that this distance she choose to cope with her romantic relationships has seeped into maternal relationship too?

As they further talk, and when she hints is he asking about Paris for someone and if that someone is whom he likes, you know what Jae-eon feels even if he doesn't because how else do you explain that fond smile. And Jae-eon isn't lying when he calls Na-bi bothersome because she, her presence in his life bothers him, makes him want to change and stop playing the limbo of distance and close all the distance that there is but he doesn't have the courage right now to acknowledge that, let alone act on it and his mother knows that so she implores him to not repeat her mistakes.

Later, when he sees her getting close to potato boy, he is insecure thinking he has already lost her and acts in way that ensures he will loose her because our boy is self-destructive like that. Because instead of telling her he was sad that she was not looking at him, or that he was tired of them running away from each other, he does something that ensures Potato boy won't come close to her, an option which still allows him to keep distance from her to protect him yet be close to her.

And when Na-bi calls him out on it, he realises he is the one that hurt her and himself and so he decides to leave her alone and makes good on it and doesn't say anything that will sway her because he knows that she is too afraid and tired to trust him.

But then he has to take a chance because they deserve that much at the very least, so he asks her is she still open to him? And when she says yes, he too says yes, because even if love hurts, he will experience it if its with her.  He tells her openly and clearly that he likes her, alot and that he too is ready to take a chance. As seen by the final sentence in their voices. Because Love and Hurt are two sides of the same coin- two people may intentionally or unintentionally hurt each other and you choose whether to let that person in or not, whether you want them to be a part of your life or not-everyday.

Pictures from Nevertheless, 1x05, 1x06, 1x09, 1x10

[chaos-event-horizon]

pls dont be so defensive i was curious because a lot of people fetishize my abuse. i wasnt inciting discourse. and if u look up electricpuke u get the info from one of the other artists saying how they abused them

Okay, I was wondering when this would take a turn and here we are. You came into my inbox asking me about invasive shit. You suddenly started throwing around a stranger's abuse in a way that was obviously supposed to make me feel bad for liking a third of a game. You're talking to me in a way that implies that you seem to think you have something to do with me. I'm not defensive, I'm annoyed. There's a pretty substantial difference. How were you thinking I'd react to some anonymous rando asking me about my feelings on rape, and acting like I somehow have something to do with a stranger's abuse? Was I supposed to just go "oh, sorry, I forgot that every stranger on the internet is in charge of my bodily autonomy! I will now proceed to remove this character from my mind with brain bleach!" How often do you have people asking you about this stuff? Because lemme tell you, it's weird and rude to walk up to strangers and start asking them random interview questions about a free dating sim. Are you also going up to people who like Strade and asking them about cannibalism??? Have you asked a Sano stan about whether or not they kidnap people and turn them into dolls today??? Honestly going after the tentacle demon lover should be lower on the list, considering realism.

Second of all. It isn't just your trauma to be explored. It's also mine. No one is fetishizing anything about you, because you aren't in any way involved in my relationship. You are not a participating .ember of my life. This isn't about you, and was never about you at any point. You aren't me, or Rire, or any other character in that game. You are a completely separate entity. A total stranger who for some reason latched onto my blog, despite me not talking about Rire in MONTHS. I don't need your permission to explore my trauma, any more than you need my permission to dislike this game.

Furthermore? Why do you assume I in any way keep up with ANY of the creators of this dating sim, besides maybe darqx??? I genuinely would have no particular reason to. I downloaded BTD in 2017, and honestly haven't looked at the download site since then. Frankly Rire and his route are the only part of the game and lore I care about. I don't even look at his creator's stuff that often. I would have 0 reason to ever need to look up the other artists, and obviously have not done so, because quite frankly I didn't even remember their usernames. Why in the world are you acting like I'm complicit in someone else's abuse when my ship and love for Rire have nothing to do with anything?

AND ONE MORE THING. Not here to incite discourse? Then why ARE you even here? You came to my inbox, asked me to explain myself to The Board Of Sunglasses, and then got mad that I'm being less than saintly? Fuck were you expecting, the sugar queen? Awful bold of you to walk into my house, start demanding answers you are in no way entitled to, and then act like I'm victimizing you and other people somehow. As if my 2017 download of a free itchio game and occasional thirst for an unrelated character has any bearing at all on someone's current problems? Why in the world are you acting like you're shocked that I don't like being spoken to this way? Why are you here, continuing to message me, and trying to insert yourself into my romantic relationship? This polycule isn't taking applications dude.

A word of advice from someone who just recently reached the 20th anniversary of the first time they were sexually assaulted: you have nothing to do with another person's trauma. Approaching other survivors while acting like this will only piss them off. If you don't like a person or piece of content, use the block button. It's free.

[elishamanning]

Kramer: "Well, with us... we ask ourselves, how can something like (the Leverkusen game) happen, and we notice our surroundings asking that, we on the inside ask ourselves that, sometimes we come to a weird conclusion, what, do we have two faces? But we only think that because we only look at ourselves. But what do the Dortmunders think, winning 5-1 against Frankfurt, thus German champions obviously, then they lose 2-1 in Freiburg and everybody's thinking, well, they're not that good, are they. Will Bayern show their Supercup face, or their face-against-us, or against 1. FC Köln? The Leipzigers, do they show their Mainz-face or that outstanding show they put on against Stuttgart? These "problems of consistency" when you're a Gladbach fan, or a Gladbach player, you think 'these are Gladbach-only problems', but the others have them as well. It's always a matter of how you handle it and that you don't let it... well, tear you down emotionally. The important thing is to avoid a negative spiral, mentally, because, as everybody who's ever played football will know, in the end the decisive issue is always in your head (((aaaah, that's a bad translation. It's a mental issue, is what he says.))), and it always will be." Knippi: "Completely agree. And by the way, that's not limited to football." Kramer: "Well, exactly. It's not even worth discussing, when you enjoy doing something, when you're positive about it - it's not exactly a brand-new psychological finding - it'll always turn out better than when you're negative about it. So let's not, after the second matchday, tear everything down, and let's not, after the first matchday, praise everything to the heavens." Knippi: "Did you expect that? Becoming professional footballers, all that stuff that comes with it, besides playing football, all that stuff raining down on you?" Neuhaus: "Well, it just happens, it just all happens automatically. In the end, you become a footballer because you have fun playing football, and you don't much think about that kind of stuff that comes with it. You grow into it and you learn to handle it." Knippi: "So you're not actively getting prepared for that? Because in the last podcast you (Chris) said 'that's the guys from the NLZ' So it's not part of your training there?" Neuhaus: "No, it wasn't a subject in mine." Kramer: "Well to be completely honest, looking back, I thought football would be funnier, or at least less serious, and a bit more honest. That's also why I like this club so much, because I know that here at least you get an honest basis, like, I feel understood here, I have a certain relationship of trust to, for example, Max Eberl, but I wouldn't have imagined, without spilling any beans now, that football's such a not-really-nice business. So this is one of the best things here, for me, knowing that I have an honest and trustful basis that can be built on. And I really wouldn't have ever imagined it all to be so grossly serious. Sometimes I think inappropriately serious, because football is such a beautiful thing and when you get to do it as a profession, plaiyng football, there's nothing easier than joyfully going somewhere every day. These are the best conditions to have, the working hours, just turning your hobby into a profession - everything about football is 'geil', but still you get this completely inappropriate seriousness about it making you go, aw, it's tough. That's a shame I think, I wouldn't have thought so when I started out. I always wanted to be a footballer because, well, for one it's my passion, but also I thought every day would just be fun, and I think it should be, and that in the end that would be performance-enhancing, I'm quite sure about that. (laughing, saying that)." Knippi: "What do you think?" Neuhaus: "Always hard to disagree. The gist is we're all playing football because it's great fun being on the pitch. Of course there are always periods when it's a little harder but all in all and especially looking back you always regard things much more positive

than maybe you felt in that particular moment. (I don't really understand what he's saying there), but anyway the positives should always be front centre." Knippi: "What you just said, Chris, the seriousness, I also think it's too much sometimes. For example if a team's not playing well and the people on the pitch get personally attacked/insulted. I get to witness that when I'm down there, and sometimes I think 'what is wrong with you?', like, I get being unhappy when the team that has your heart isn't doing well, being unhappy, or sad, or disappointed, I get that, but not attacking the players personally. Well thank God that isn't an issue currently, and there's no reason why it should be." Kramer: "No, I don't think that's happened to me in my career... Well, once, playing with VfL Bochum in Aue, I was pelted with snowballs by our own fans but, in retrospect, that was quite funny." Knippi: "Like how?" Kramer: "Well, because we lost 6-1 playing in the snow. I'd say I'm a good player on snow, but, well, Ronny König is the best snow-player on this planet. He (literally he says 'he put four cherries into our basket', meaning he scored four goals... as you probably would have guessed.) So then our own fans, who'd travelled to Aue on a Monday night, threw snow balls at us, and we completely deserved it. And I do think every fan is right, and has the right, to use this outlet, that they're paying money for, to let off steam. Because football, in the end, is entertainment. Only, it doesn't help. What I meant with the seriousness is the whole stuff around it as well. Football is just a game. It's supposed to be fun, but sometimes I think, looking at the newspapers, all the sociopolitical issues, and seriousness... it's still football." Knippi: "Did I just understand you correctly, you're saying it's a fan's right to pelt you with snowballs?" Kramer: "Well... it gets its down dynamic, and it's not too bad. If someone insults me, say, I don't really have a problem with that. I don't take it personally because I don't think it's meant that way. It may not be the right approach and I may not understand their motive, but... that person is angry, they've had a bad week at work, then they come here, and we play badly ("nur hintenrum" - too defensively) so they have a right to...-as a fan, of course, you have to question whether that's doing any good. We've not really had that here in Gladbach and when there were beginnings of it, we had talks with the ultras, and stuff, we're quite close to the fans, so we don't really have that issue here, but you do see it with other clubs, and close friends of mine, they have had situations where I'd really say, now this is too much (I wonder if he's talking of Leon/the end at Schalke here), and that's just not on, but generally, we are an outlet for many and football is entertainment. When you're not being entertained you're entitled to boo. I don't mind. There's just this double standard - look at me, talking again for ten minutes straight (Knippi and Flo laugh), and you have to cut it all afterwards- once again I take ten minutes to get to the point, but you can't - you want to play with a young squad, and they'll make mistakes. You can't boo them. Or you can't say you want to play with a young squad. Very simply put." Knippi: "Tommy Schmitt, your successor at 11Freunde put it quite well there, I thought. It's very counterproductive to boo and whistle." Kramer: "Yes, well, you have to ask yourself, no matter what you do - I mean when you get to the office and everybody's scowling at you, thinking 'what an idiot!', you'll feel that as a person with empathy, like every footballer, and when you're booed, that does something to you... I can promise everybody: booing a player will never make them better, not ever." Knippi: "'Snow-player' you just said. You're not a good 'snow-player'." Kramer: "I'm a GREAT snow-player!" Neuhaus: "They lost 6-1, I don't think he's that great. They wouldn't have lost 6-1, would they?" Kramer: "Well Leon, Leon Goretzka

and I, we still talk a lot about that day. I'd say, Leon and I, we both have these long levers, we really are good snow-players, on a proper layer of snow, like there in Aue. But Ronny König! He's Messi on snow. Awesome, really." Knippi: "Wouldn't it be better to have short legs and a low centre of gravity?" Kramer: "I don't know. I don't think so. I mean, looking at Leon, and myself, AND Ronny König you can conclude the tall ones with the long legs are good on snow." (very scientific, this.) Knippi: "What kind of a snow-player are you?" Neuhaus: "There weren't any snow-games anymore in my time." Kramer: "NLZ, dude!" Knippi: "I know but..." Kramer: "No!" Neuhaus: "Climate change." Knippi: "But in your youth you must have played on snow once, haven't you?" Neuhaus: "Hardly." Knippi: "You're THAT young?!" Neuhaus: "At 1860 we had astroturf with undersoil heating." Knippi: "Did you ever play on clay?" Neuhaus: "...and anywhere in the stadiums today. There just aren't snow games like that anymore these days." Kramer: "He's from Bavaria, they don't have clay. They just have meadows and pastures, they play on the most beautiful pitches. Here in NRW when you're playing Galatasaray Mühlheim you know what's going down? You know what's going down, playing on clay?" Neuhaus: "I can just imagine." Kramer: "You take two weeks before you can go back to school because your legs - you simply can't walk anymore..." Knippi: "You've never played on clay?" Neuhaus: "No, never." Knippi: "You don't know that feeling when your grazed-open thigh is stuck to your jeans?" Neuhaus: "Yes, well, as a little child I played on the street..." (It goes on a bit yet, but I've already fallen asleep twice and I'm not sure these "translations" are making much sense anyway, so I'll leave it at this, now, alright? Flo played on asphalt, so he knows about open wounds from football. And Knippi claims he's still got remnants of clay in his thigh from decades ago. Hehe. I'll do the rest another time.)

first of all THANK YOU SOOOOO MUCH

it's always interesting to hear about a player's mindset

it's really interesting to see how an athlete's relationship with their changes over time. like to have something that was for fun and a hobby turn into your job is a pretty incredible transition. it's something a lot of people experience to an extent, but to have it on this high a level is pretty unique.

Kramer: "No, I don't think that's happened to me in my career... Well, once, playing with VfL Bochum in Aue, I was pelted with snowballs by our own fans but, in retrospect, that was quite funny."

chrikra???? please??? what is this... snowballs???

i also agree that while fans are allowed to show their discontent, it does often cross a line. idk if he was referring to something like leon's ending with schalke, but that instance of schalke fans chasing and attacking the players is something that definitely comes to mind here. i think i actually draw a shorter line than chrikra here.

Neuhaus: "There weren't any snow-games anymore in my time." Kramer: "NLZ, dude!" Knippi: "I know but..." Kramer: "No!" Neuhaus: "Climate change." Knippi: "But in your youth you must have played on snow once, haven't you?" Neuhaus: "Hardly." Knippi: "You're THAT young?!"

omg flo please

i do love the idea of chrikra and leon reminiscing about their old games together... my heart

anyway i love this podcast and i hope they do more of it

and thank you again SO MUCH

[rpmemesbyarat]

RP meme from Scream Queens Ep 13 "The Final Girl(s)"

"It was a plan 20 years in the making. And it worked."

"Now, this is a hammer. Hammers are good for bashing people in the skull and watching them bleed to death, okay?"

"Easily cuts through muscle and bone, and has the added advantage of making sure your victim's final emotion is terror."

"I needed a persona to hide behind while we murdered people and stuff."

'As for me, what I've noticed is that the more weird and gross you are, the less people want to know about you. No one asks the kid with terrible acne what their favorite movie is or where they were born."

"My butt could launch a thousand ships."

"All killers have a cool costume; Jason with his hockey mask, Freddy Krueger's sweater and hat, Cujo's totally realistic dog costume."

"Unisex, kind of satanic. But not, like, a giant goat head satanic."

"I think he's dead."

"Stabbing can be pretty dramatic."

"Wait, we're spraying acid on the furniture?"

"Obvi, I was the brains of the operation."

"Your high school transcripts are clearly faked. And I'm guessing you made up your SAT scores, 'cause it's not possible to get one million percent on them."

"I've got a bedazzler back in my room."

"I hope you guys aren't freaked out by my appearance. Or lack of social skills and money."

"Come on. Let's go mingle, babies."

"I've always said that being nice is a really good quality. It could save your life one day."

"Order is restored, as they say. More than restored--reborn."

"I mean, someone had to take all the blame."

"Can we save the shoe?"

"Also, it helps to be completely frickin' insane."

"Because for a plan like this to work, you have to be willing to totally commit."

"I mean, desperate times call for desperate measures."

"This was the price I had to pay if I wanted to get away with murder and pin it all on someone else."

"Because some people don't deserve to just get murdered. They need to be truly punished."

"I didn't do it, I swear!"

"I'm one of the good guys!"

"You bite your own toenails."

"Okay, I am flexible."

"When I fart, I cup it in my hand and smell it."

"Dear god, shut up!"

"Oh, I see where this is going. You're gonna try and pin all of these murders on me so I spend the rest of my life in prison."

"The doctors were able to save my eyeball, and they said that I'm gonna make a full recovery."

"You're the killer!"

"Your entire life story is totally fabricated."

"She definitely was not adopted."

"Wait, I do know! I know where I know you from. You're from that prostate commercial."

"We took her in out of the kindness of our hearts. And also for the tax deduction."

"As soon as she learned to talk, I wanted to disown her."

"Our daughter sucks."

"But, sweetie, you're toxic, and you're bumming us out, so it's time for you to go."

"You can't arrest me-- don't you need, like, a warrant or something from a judge?"

"Wait, you think I'm the killer?"

"Well, just saying you saw something isn't evidence."

"Uh, if you're gonna just continue to accuse everyone, could we at least sit down?"

"I don't have a diners club card! Is diners club still even a thing?"

"I didn't know the oil was boiling!"

"What is your game here?"

"I mean, I am a pillar of this community."

"What better way for you to knock off everyone that you hate, because they're different from you or not as popular or not as pretty, than to murder them one by one?!"

"This is what I like to call first-class entertainment."

"You'll never take me alive!"

"Are these strippers?"

"I just don't understand how you just end it."

"I don't have a choice is what I'm telling you."

"Don't let it end like this."

"It was never gonna work out between us."

"We got too close to the sun, baby. We shined too bright."

"I promise I will never bang anyone the way I banged you."

"What do you mean, "what charity"? Just charity. All proceeds will go to charity."

"My friends are dead! I have nothing left!"

"I wrote up a quick book and became a media sensation."

"Women are better."

"If you think about all of human history, add up the wars and the genocide, all the oppression, the violence, the exploitation, the degradation of the human spirit, what do all those things have in common? Dudes. They have dudes in common, right?"

"It's true, a lot of people had to die to make that happen, but I often catch myself thinking, "you know what? Maybe it was worth it."

"But I suppose money still talks."

"We're gonna make cookies and brownies, and eat them while we talk about our feelings."

"At least some good came out of all of that evil."

"These kids were martyrs for a much bigger cause."

"It's not my fault that all of that happened to me."

"Maybe if I would've had a real dad, my brother wouldn't have turned into such a douche."

"They're dead. And that is your fault."

"I didn't kill any of these kids."

"Are you getting me a car?"

"I think you need your space."

"I was under the impression that I had the inalienable right to a jury of my peers. Look at these hippos. These are not my peers."

"This is a kangaroo court."

"You can't ignore the verdict."

"My dad is super gross rich. Like, disgusting rich. He'll have me out of prison in no time."

"You're going to an asylum."

"You're rude, entitled, narcissistic, racist and insane."

"Your entire defense consisted of you screaming at the jury that you didn't kill anybody and then threatening to kill them if they found you guilty."

"I think I'm ready to show you my ears."

"I love it here! I never want to leave!"

[gracie-p8-officialblog]

Spilling Tea On Phantom of the Opera 2004

DISCLAIMER: I just want to say from the start that it is not my intention to offendanyone, you're entitled to your opinions and I'm allowed to have mine...

Ok, so, I just watched this movie a few days ago on my laptop and it was pretty much my first time sitting through the movie. I watched a few clips of the movie on YouTube but... Then, I decided to watch the whole movie. And this was my reaction.

Don't get me wrong! There WERE parts I liked but... That was just half of the movie... But overall... Um... It was meh. Ahem. Down to business!

My opinion on Gerard Butler as the Phantom? Um, wow. And not in a good way. I feel like this was a case of a talented performer being grossly miscast as the Phantom. I think this Tumblr post best describes on what I thought of his singing.

"He's supposed to have the voice of an angel, but it sounds like he's been gargling vinegar" ~Quoted by @faded-florals

Don't get me wrong. His voice is quite good for an untrained singer but... The Phantom is one of the biggest musical theatre roles of all time! It's right up there with Jean Valjean. It's really not a role that could go a competent singer, someone who's never sang professionally before but could be good once they've been trained up a bit. The role demands a truly great singer... And he wasn't right for the part.

His voice felt too strainy, growly and rock-ish for the Phantom. I didn't like how Joel Schumacher bought into the whole "sexy Phantom" thing and cast a hunky heart-throb, who was nowhere near disfigured enough. It's meant to be a gothic thriller novel with a small romantic subplot, not a B-grade vampire romance movie!

As for Emmy Rossum as Miss Christine Daae... it's true, her voice is good. She should know though, should she wish to excel, she has MUCH still to learn (Heeeeehee. Sorry. Couldn't resist.)

Emmy's Christine had little-to-no character growth and personality but I don't think it reflects her as an actress, but reflects more on the director and casting director because of how young she was (but more on that later)

Not only that, her Christine was SIGNIFICANTLY dumbed down and oversexualized. I mean, the entire point of the story is that Christine grows strong enough to overcome the trauma of an abusive relationship and make sure that her abuser never hurts anyone ever again but still shows the Phantom compassion and sympathy. I mean, her story arc is her becoming strong-willed enough to overcome the Phantom's pull/spell/enchantment/hypnosis or whatever you percieve it as on her! And don't get me started on her costumes because of the SEVERE lack of modesty.

The chemistry was a little flat because she was underage and her two male love interests were both in their 30s (which totally isn't HER fault, of course, but the directors could easily have cast someone else older)

Her voice, too, strikes me as being much too young and undeveloped. She has a very pretty, sweet-sounding quality to her singing but she doesn't sound rich and operatic enough to be a convincing Christine. Rebecca Caine and Amy Manford do the best job of singing the way I think Christine ought to sound- a maturing opera voice! Though POTO is NOT an opera (you wouldn't believe how many people actually think it is...), it does revolve around opera, and Christine is an opera singer, not a pop star.

And now onto... Everyone's favourite vicomte!!!!!!

C'mon people, put your bottles down. It is a truth universally acknowledged (or at least in the wee Raoul Defense Squad Circle) that Raoul is one of the greatest and most underrated boyfriends to ever exist in musical theatre and it's almost impossible to hate him because of how relatable he is.

Ladies, puh-leeze. He's much more relatable than you admit and face it, we all have a little bit of Raoul in us. Failure to see things staring us in the face, saying or doing the wrong thing at the wrong time, having a 'see it to believe it' attitude when we have little-to-no evidence on something... yeah, don't pretend you don't see a trend. Raoul is relatable whether we want him to be or not.

My thoughts on Patrick Wilson as Raoul, he was one of the few redeeming qualities of this not so great movie. Yeah, the swordfight and Tarzan leaps were a little too much but can you blame him?! And though I feel like that foppish wig made him look more like a magic elf prince than a vicomte, he couldn't control that!

His Raoul was so gentle and caring! Yeah, his acting was a bit stiff but at least his voice wasn't a chore to listen to, it has this warm, tender, comforting quality to it which suits Raoul. I really loved the way he sang "Don't throw away your life for my sake" and "I fought so hard to free you" in the Final Lair (😭😭😭) It feels like Raoul is genuinely apologising to Christine.

I know, I know... The Hadley Fraser fans are approaching with menacing expressions as we speak but let me clarify. I still think Hadley is amazing but... His Raoul kinda felt a little too shouty for me and his Raoul was closer to the LND-canon than POTO-canon (not his fault though).

Miranda Richardson (aka. Rita Skeeter) as Madame Giry is kind of weird. I mean, I know Madame Giry's supposed to be a little Strange and Mysterious. But this Mme. wasn't really Strange or Mysterious at all, or even slightly Spooky at all. She was just kind of an oddball. Popping up in random places to give warnings about the Phantom and looking at people as if she were questioning their life choices or something. As for her daughter... well, Jennifer Ellison's Meg was so-so. She's got a sweet-sounding voice and that added scene where she looked for Christine in the lair was a nice touch... But... Her Meg was kinda forgettable and uninteresting. Meg is supposed to prance around shrieking that the Phantom of the Opera is here, not whisper it in a blase manner that you half expect to be followed up with, "by the way, what's for lunch?" Not to mention, she rivaled Christine as far as low-necked costumes went.

Minnie Driver as Carlotta was spot on! Yes, I know she didn't sing the score but her acting was alright. She was very over-the-top and self-centered, which is great for Carlotta, but I felt her portrayal was a little too childish to be accurate. Carlotta is a successful middle-aged diva who's willing to scream and storm when she doesn't get her way, but she isn't a two-year-old pouting and throwing tantrums. (Yes, there's a difference.)

Ciaran Hinds and Simon Callow played Firmin and Andre, respectively. Their managers kinda felt like twits and nothing more. Also, Firmin's masquerade costume was ridiculous. The stupid kind, not the funny kind. ...Well, okay, it was a little funny.

I'm not going to touch on every song here, but I will say that "Hannibal" was beyond awful (if you thought the costumes in the stage version were a bit risque, you should see the movie ones- no, actually you shouldn't) and that "Think of Me," while very nice, was not particularly memorable. Christine's dress, however (despite its less-than-ideal neckline) was GORGEOUS, even though it looks completely out of place in a musical that supposedly takes place in ancient Alexandria.

"Little Lotte" kinda lost its charm by being spoken instead of sung. And Gerard Butler's voice in "The Mirror" was too rough and raspy for my ears and made me cringe in sympathetic shame. The title song was like a cheesy, campy B-grade horror movie tbh, trying way too hard to be spooky and chilling ("ooh, look, Phantom's Lair! It's DARK and SCARY down here!") and succeeding only in being cringeworthy. Not that I've actually ever seen a bad horror movie- or any horror movie at all, for that matter. Unless you count this one.

Christine's costume, too, annoyed me no end. She was basically wearing a corset and drawers under the dressing gown. *facepalm* The dressing gown is supposed to go OVER your COSTUME to keep it CLEAN, peeps. It's not a BATHROBE. And the amount of eye makeup she had on would terrify a raccoon. Yikes.

Though I liked the random horse because of its nod to the Leroux novel.

"Music of the Night" was so blah-slash-touchy-feely that it made me summarily uncomfortable.

I'd like to be able to say something nice about "I remember/Stranger than you dreamt it" but I have none. One thing that bugged me to no end was how Christine is no longer wearing stockings, like dude, that gives some GROSS implications. Anyways, let's skip to Il Muto!

Oh, but first I should say that "Notes" was rather a flop and that "Prima Donna" is unmemorable and indeed should probably be fast-forwarded as there's a rather unsavory bit involving a crew member showing the audience what he thinks of Carlotta's behaviour.

"Il Muto," I must say, was pretty doggone funny. Carlotta's "Your part is silent. Leetle toad," cracked me up into a bunch of giggling little pieces, and the little vignette of the Phantom tinkering with Carlotta's throat spray made her croaking later on a lot more believable.

Now for "All I Ask Of You", SQUEEEEEE!!!!!!!!! I honestly can't understand how anyone could listen to this song and still maintain that Christine and Raoul don't belong together. He represents everything she needs- stability, protection, a guiding hand and affirmed affection. She represents everything he needs, in turn- someone to show affection to and his childhood friend.

One thing I definitely think could have been left out was the scene in which Erik kills Buquet- we totally did not need to see him being chased, terrified, through the rafters and finally strangled. Gross.

And the Phantom and his rose crouching behind that statue... I think this was supposed to be sad, but there was too much snot mixed with tears for it to be sad. It was, again, gross. So was Gerard Butler's pathetic attempt at the "all that the Phantom asked of you" line. And the lack of a chandelier crash in that scene made the song anticlimactic.

And "Masquerade" was so-so but... The Phantom's entrance is anticlimactic somehow, and his Red Death costume (if indeed it's supposed to even BE the Red Death) is unimpressive. I don't like how Raoul just runs off to desert Christine as soon as things start looking ugly (yes, I realize he was going to get his sword, but still... something could have happened to her while he was gone. Duh, did this guy learn anything from "Little Lotte/The Mirror"? Just sayin)

As for Madame Giry's flashback immediately following, I like how it gives us some of the Phantom's backstory, but it seems really abrupt. You don't even realize until she's done that she was talking to Raoul the whole time- it sounds like she's just randomly reminiscing about Stuff, and if you didn't know the story you might be sitting there thinking, "who is this strange woman again?"

Also, Christine leaving wherever-it-is at, like, five in the morning to go to who-knows-where, completely oblivious to the fact that the Phantom is driving her. Whaaaaaaaaa? How'd he know she was planning to go for a graveyard stroll? Was he watching her through the mirror again? THAT'S JUST CREEPY.

"Wishing You Were Somehow Here Again" was rather mediocre and dulled down the fact that it is a Christine Empowerment™ song. Why, exactly, does Christine's father have the biggest monument in the cemetery? If he were a rich and famous violinist as his crypt seems to suggest, why on earth was his daughter struggling along as a chorus girl taking free music lessons?

The swordfight... Well... I had mixed feelings about it. Sword fights are all well and good, but... The swordfight takes away the element of mysterious danger to the Phantom. Okay, fine, Christine getting Raoul to spare the Phantom's life is a nice touch, I guess, but did it strike no one else that his "now let it be war upon you BOTH" makes absolutely NO sense after that? If she just saved his life, why would he suddenly be all, "thanks, but no thanks, I'M GOING TO MURDER YOUUUUUUUUUU"?

And "Twisted Every Way" was after "Wishing" which made ZERO sense. Plus, I didn't like how they cut most of it because in the musical, it gave Christine a spine!

"Point of No Return"? Hooooooo boy....... There are so many things wrong with this number. Let's just a list a few.

*HOW did no one recognise the Phantom through his "disguise"?! At least in the stage play, it made more sense because of how he was wearing a cloak that obscured most of his body.

*Christine's sleeves falling down over and over again were REALLY annoying.

*It was just too touchy-feely for my taste.

*The fact that Emmy Rossum was a teenager during filming made this scene gross because of the way they oversexualized Christine in this scene.

*Gerard Butler's voice in that scene made me cringe and shake my head in sympathetic shame.

*In the stage play, Christine ran from him, showing her own agenda and resistance to his pull! While in the movie, she didn't resist him!

*Now for the one that took the cake... The disfigurement! Or it would be a disfigurement if it actually made him look, y'know, deformed. Instead, as several people have put it, he looks like he got a bad sunburn or something. It's really rather pathetic. It makes him look more like a drama queen than he already is! Yeah.... I really don't like this movie.

On to... Final Lair!!!!!!!! It was a flop. From Raoul's whining and flailing around and his stringy hair flopping about (shallow complaint, I know, but it's so ugly) to Christine's sappy melodramatic "don't make me choooooooose" faces to the Phantom's prancing around with his ropes and maniacal laughter that somehow wasn't really scary at all... yeah, it was a flop. A major, major flop. And though The Kiss wasn't all that bad, all I could think of was, "She's SIXTEEN! SIX! TEEN! THIS IS CREEPY, DISTURBING AND GROSS!"

Which is why it's so difficult for me to admit that, um, I... cried at the end.

I COULDN'T HELP IT GUYS HE WAS ALL ALONE THERE IN HIS LAKE WITH HIS MONKEY AND HIS SMASHED MIRRORS AND HE WAS CRYING AND IT WAS SAD.

And then that rose on the gravestone? That single red rose? And the look on Old Raoul's face (still Patrick Wilson, by the way, under all that makeup) when he saw it and realized he wasn't the only one visiting Christine's grave? Yup, I lost it again there, too. And I really didn't want to. Because I tend to cry over movies I love, y'know? And I didn't love this movie. At all

Yet I still cried at the end. I'm not really sure why. I think perhaps it had something to do with the way the story still "got" me, deep down inside, despite the lousy casting and less-than-perfect singing and ridiculously unnecessary elements that totally didn't need to be there. It's still a tragically beautiful romance, and even a bad film can't kill that.

In conclusion, I think Mary Poppins can best express what I thought of POTO 2004.

In conclusion, I rate it a 2.7/5

[ettadunham]

Thank you very much for letting me share this. To put you a little bit in context, in Argentina colleges are public so they're very into political matters, and the feminist movement has taken a lot of force lately that it isn't weird that political groups in college talk about it. Ok, so... I have this classmate that I can't stand but I shared some classes last year and we live in the same town so we share transport too and i can't really avoid him. (Continues)

... He's he kind of person who, when these groups approach you to talk about some feminist matter, takes the "All lives matter, so why crimes against women should be judged differently?" actitude and thinks feminist are hypocrites because we don't complain when we pass for free in dancing clubs. We (thankfully) haven't cross path for a while (different subjects, different time tables and the transport is a fucking nightmare) but yesterday we catch up (continues)

We catch up and told me about college and I told him that I have some health problem and bla bla bla. But the he starts to tell me about how a girl reject him last year and that this girl now wanted him to help her to hook up with one of his friends. Well I did think that was really mean from her and i actually felt sorry for him. UNTIL... the fucker says "well i might help her to hook up with my friend so the i can ask him for pictures" as in this girl naked pictures (continues)

and he ended up his previous statement with "I have to get something after all" and I was like "dude, that's invation of privacy? sure, her actitude of asking for your friend when she knows you have/had something for he,r was bitchy but that's completely wrong... I really didn't know how to get going the conversation after that so i just comment some rutinary things of my life and thank god we arrived to the station.I don't wanna cross path with that asshole ever again!

I think I'll punch him next time he says something like that... Again thank you for the space and I hope if any person goes through something like this they have a little more courage and call the shit out of them...

UGH, honestly, the fact that guys like him think that it’s completely safe and normal to talk to someone about this level of messed up breach of privacy and objectification and just the whole fucking entitlement of it pretty much tells you everything. Apparently this is what makes you ~cool~ in Guy Society. This is the infamous ‘harmless locker room talk’ mentality.

But I feel you on the whole ‘not having enough courage to speak up’ part. It’s tough, because you know that you’ll just be accused of over-reacting, whatever and however you say it. And keeping your calm in an argument like that is nearly impossible, but otherwise you’ll just be accused of being ‘emotional’ and ‘hysterical’ or whatever the fuck (of course this doesn’t apply when the guy loses his shit...)

I once actually apologized to a guy who was trying to completely devalue me in the most misogynistic way possible. In my defense, I was also pretty drunk at the time, but I really wish I was the punchy kind of drunk, because oh boy, someone probably still needs to dropkick him off this planet.

Best of luck to you with him though. I hope you won’t have to interact much with him, although you’ll probably have the misfortune of meeting his type plenty of times in the future