#Batman pointing to Dent: you do know he's killed people

[azulhood]

DP X DC Prompt

The justice league ignore Amit Park in a time of crisis.

Years later, Harvey Dent is hired by the town to sue them.

[celaenaeiln]

You know what’s interesting?

Dick didn’t set out to murder Zucco with the intent of being a killer. He viewed it as an unfortunate byproduct of his actions.

His real goal was to “purge the world of criminals” because “darkness needs light.”

Do you realize how unhinged that sounds? It means Robin wasn’t created from anger. It was created from the messed up psyche of a child who realized at 8 years old that the entire world needs something better than what it was given and so he went out and became it.

I cant properly explain how insane that is. It’s like putting the logic of the Joker inside the mind of child but turning it for good. Everything is falling into place now. That is why the Joker hates Dick-he is the one Robin the man couldn’t break. Literally COULDN’T because when he’s facing Dick, he’s facing the version of himself that would have existed if he had put himself to good. That was would break HIM.

Imagine spending the better part of your life doing your utmost worst to show Batman that people and the system are inherently evil only to have him fall head over cowl for a version of yourself to completely invalidate your reason for existing. How psychotic would you turn when you realize you have nothing to prove?

This also explains why Dick is so well adjusted and sociable in a way that Bruce and the others aren’t.

Bruce loses it when he loses his children, he thinks it’s a failure of his abilities and doubts his life’s work.

Jason loses it when he thinks he’s been replaced because his reason for being is having someone care for him.

Tim loses it when he comes to a dead-end. He feels helpless and lost when he doesn’t know the next move because his reason for being is being able to solve what’s wrong.

Damian loses it when he feels abandoned. He feels hurt and broken because he’s a child who wants to be loved.

The reason Dick was the perfect choice for Dark Crisis and to become the dawn of DCU is because his sole reason for being is to be the light.

That is why Bruce refused to destroy a planet when Superman asked him too. That is why Dick was the only person in the universe who could control the Darkness infecting him when even Deathstroke lost his mind to it. That is why the evil Justice League chose Dick of every one to kill-to make a point.

This is why he’s looked up to by major heroes such as Superman, Wonderwoman, the Titans, the children, the villains, and the civilians.

This is why Harvey Dent called Robin Dick “Batman’s secret weapon.”

Although anger was the baseline emotion, Dick doesn’t have anger issues because:

Robin wasn’t created for revenge. It was created with the intention of building a world so unrealistically good, that the level of the vision Richard Grayson was aiming for and set the standards for- is so terrifyingly inconceivable.

And that-is why he is a happy, feral, monster.

[bet-on-me-13]

Danny runs for Mayor P.2

kgned3Part 1

Some more snippets of the Gotham Mayor Danny AU!

...

Danny would absolutely try to hire some of the Rouges as his Mayoral Cabinet, I can just imagine Waylon Jones, the Killer Croc, in a Suit and Slacks sitting in a the Mayors Office while awkwardly holding his resume.

Danny: So, Mr. Jones, why do you think we should hire you? Waylon: Well sir, I have something of a reputation and I feel like I would be an amazing Bodyguard. Danny: OK, one question though. What is your opinion on Clowns? Waylon: I don’t like them. Danny: Hired!

...

Danny: Now, Mr Nygma, what do you think you would bring to my office? Edward: Well sir, I am fairly well known for my expert planning and timing skills. Also I can give you fun riddles whenever you want! Danny: Hmmm, that’s definitely a good point. One question, if needed, will you attack a clown on sight? Edward: Yes? Danny: Hired!

...

Danny: Now, I can see that you used to have a very reputable resume Mr. Dent. Harvey: Thank you sir. Danny: I can’t see any reason to refuse your application, but I do have one question. Do you like Clowns? Harvey: Uhm...yes? Danny: I am sorry dir, but I am going to have to reject your application for a job in the Mayors office. Mr Jones, please escort this man out 

...

Danny would absolutely do an amazing job in decreasing the crime rate, just by virtue of the fact that his very presence is destabilizing the Curses put on the City.

But at the same time, his policies are also very efficient, based on Gen Z Humor/Ideas

Danny: As my new Law states, every year the most rich person in the City will be forced to give up 70% of their assets to Charity. You can avoid this by donating as much as possible in the weeks leading up to the Sacrifice Day, whoever donates the most is exempt from the choosing even if they are the Richest, we will then move on to the second Richest, and so on Reporter: Sir, isn’t this just the “Winner Of Capitalisms” Prompt from Tumblr? Danny: Yes.

...

Batman: Why did you just pass a Law that states that all Vigilantes are given the right to kill? Danny: Because I accidentally hired every villain in Gotham, so now there is nobody to try and bribe me. And if nobody tries to bribe me, then nobody realizes that I will only accept bribes if the Joker is dead, like I said in my Campaign. I know that you guys have a no-kill rule, but I know at least one of you who would jump at the chance  Batman: *realizes that Dick has already killed the Joker once, Jason is actively attempting to every day, Tim is chaos incarnate and would do it to feel included, and Damian just really wants to let loose* Well played...

...

Danny: Vlad, I am serious. Leave me alone or I will put you in Soup Jail for 3 months! Vlad: FINE! I’ll just go possess another Billionaire to force them to give me their company again Batman, listening from outside the window: What the f-

...

Danny in every conversation with the Batfamily: I re-respect your decision to not tak-take a life...but I must insist you kill the Joker...for the good of the peephol-People! He is not a good inf-influence on this city and he must be des...troyed. Batman: *Wondering why he sounds like he is reading from a script* Um, I don’t think thats a good idea? Lady Gotham: *Standing behind Batman with some Cue Cards, trying to communicate with her Knights through Danny* *Thumbs Up* Danny: Also I wanted to say that you need to- oh um, ok- to get over the deaths of your parents and grieve in a healthy way instead of adopting every child you see. You are doing a great job kid, parentheses, do not read this par- Oh-Oops. Batman: Hm. I’m not even going to question that anymore.

...

Tag List:

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[gffa]

ABSOLUTELY EATING THIS UP because I don't think this is just grimdark Batman for the sake of grimdark Batman, there's a thread throughout this issue of Dick teetering on a tightrope of being a child and being a mirror of Bruce's anger and rage. Earlier in the issue, Bruce is refusing to let Dick out onto the street yet, saying that he's not ready, while Dick eavesdrops and looks ready to punch someone in the face about it. Woven in around this, is Jim Gordon asking to set up basically a playdate for Robin with his niece Barbara so they can go trick-or-treating together and Batman legit drops him off, like a kid about to go have fun. It's not until the Batsignal goes off that Dick runs off, and he's actually fairly happy-go-lucky as he's swinging through the air and kicking people in the face. Then this moment. A dark moment where Bruce is beating Julian Day so badly that the artist makes a point of all the blood on his fists, of Dick having a moment of, "I... didn't know he was an orphan." And the WHOLE POINT of the early days of Batman and Robin is that they were both orphans and that's why Bruce connected with him so hard, because he couldn't turn away from that little orphaned boy. And I think that's the point of these scenes, that Bruce isn't ready to let Dick into these fights because he doesn't want Dick to become him and see what Bruce himself has become. Bruce thinks during that fight that it was Alfred who made him wear the Kevlar, that he only agreed if it was thin and light. Bruce thinks about how he knows that kind of gun that was used in the killing. There's a thread running through the issue that Bruce is dealing with Harvey Dent becoming Two-Face, feeling betrayed about it and wondering if he could have saved his friend if he'd told him about Batman, given him a lifeline. It fits so well with what Dick Grayson is to Bruce Wayne--he's not just another orphan, but he's the one that will refuse to be made into a mirror of Bruce, that he will refuse to not be loved, that he will refuse to let Bruce stay in the dark. One of the main points of baby Dick Grayson as a character is that he was angry in the way Bruce was angry, but that he looked at the situation and said, you know what, I'm not going to let us fall into the dark, I'm going to drag us both out of here if I have to. This series comes with the context of Dark Victory before it, where Dick is portrayed as an angry child, but there are moments of adorableness and light. And that's it--you can't have Dick's character without recognizing that there's anger in there, but also you can't have Dick's character without one of the main themes of him is that he chooses to turn back to love and joy. This scene goes as dark as it does because it's a turning point for Dick, a point where he's realizing that he has choices in front of him. Bruce is saving him by giving him training and a home and people he loves, but Dick will be saving him by refusing to stay out of the light. And what a messy, convoluted dynamic that makes between them! A tiny child shouldn't be making that kind of decision, Bruce should be the adult here, but that's just who they are, and in a comic book story, it's really a testament to how incredible a character Dick Grayson is that he had all that anger and rage in him, will always carry it with him, but has the iron will to turn away from it and to emotionally go toe to toe with Batman and win. That child is going to bright laughter and love to Bruce Wayne's life, he's going to bring back the compassion and kindness that Bruce has buried in his heart, and there's nothing Bruce can do to stop him.

[do-you-ship-this-comic-ship]

propaganda:

This is for all of my fellow Two-Face and Gilda lovers out there! Personally I think that BruHarvey as a ship is underrated because of how much more popular other Rogues are (especially the Joker and the Riddler), and the prominence of ships between Bruce and various members of the Justice League (and of course the various comp het ships DC keeps trying to force Bruce into).

In comparison Harvey just doesn't really capture the fandom's imagination as much. Therefore BruHarvey isn't super popular because they don't consider it as an option a lot of the time. But that being said, I also find that a lot of people when presented with BruHarvey as a possible ship will be pretty amenable to it! It's just a fantastic ship if you want some old man/toxic/tragic yaoi! The ship has so much going for it! Childhood friends to lovers. Enemies to lovers. Friends in their civilian identities, as they try to pursue justice for Gotham together, and even friends after Harvey becomes a villain too! It's SO juicy and has SO much unexplored potential if DC weren't COWARDS and would just let Brucie kiss men already! Each of their themes of justice, duality, and redemptive love mirror one another in such an exceedingly tantalizing way that I could write a whole college thesis on it! But I'm not just here about them. I'm also here for my girl Gilda too!

Now BruHarvey may be an underrated ship... And Two-Face as a character is just about rated as a character (not underrated. Not overrated. Just rated). But Gilda...? My poor, poor girl Gilda! Writers never know what to do with her and refuse to give her the justice she deserves!!! Gilda is a big part of the reason why Two-Face was able to work so well as a character and concept all the way back in the 40's in the first place! I don't think that Harvey would have been as iconic of a character with as much staying power as he does with just... SO MANY imitators if it weren't for Gilda's presence and ability to help Harvey redeem himself! The whole point of Harvey as a character is that while he might be a villain, he is never too far gone as to not deserve a chance at redemption. He genuinely cannot help himself when it comes to the compulsion of doing crime. And in his original stories, he was able to redeem himself and reach a happy ending with Gilda helping him, supporting him, and loving him through that journey.

The reason that Batman doesn't kill is largely because of Harvey himself! His childhood friend that he deeply cares about, and who, no matter how much society at large, and even Harvey himself tells Bruce that he is beyond saving, that he still cares about nevertheless and will NEVER give up on! And Gilda was the first person to never give up on Harvey and was the one to lead him back to the light! In a time where Batman might still occasionally use a gun and where the punishment most criminals would recieve in the comics was death or a lifetime of jail, never to be seen again, Two-Face stood out because of his redemption! A redemption that the writers of the comics stuck to for decades in spite of a clear demand to have Two-Face back as a threat! (Hence the many, many imitators.) And sure, the helpless damsel who saves the bad guy through the power of love may be a tired trope these days, but it's still one that can work very well, and as a woman first written in the 40's Gilda actually has a surprising amount to her that later writers would forget or just outright ignore! Gilda clearly was a female character who had more going on in her life other than her boyfriend at the time she was first written. She was actually a sculptor!

A woman with her own well-respected career entirely divorced from her DA boyfriend's! And while Harvey was her primary muse, I have doubts that her career just stopped when he turned to crime! After all, she seems to have been a woman who owned a house and lived on her own and had enough wealth to spend her free time going to the movies (and apparently buying herself mysterious cloaks). In the 1940's! We love a woman who can get everything on her own without needing a man (though it is a nice bonus) in this household! And she was doing it as an artist when that stuff was less common! And her other biggest trait is her unshaking love and loyalty for Harvey. I think that it's genuinely interesting how the crime and murder matters very little to Gilda (and similar characters that fill her role in stories). What she doesn't like is how he lies and tries to decieve her specifically. She would die for Harvey. She would kill for Harvey. She will stay with and help him through thick and thin. No matter what.

And very few pieces of media do her character justice! The Long Halloween may ostensibly be about her, but they gave her nothing in her life other than the men she associates with, a desire for children, and murder. Not even a hint that she was a sculptor, barely a hint that she studied law or anything that other iterations offered! She's my girl! And she could honestly offer a number of very interesting story posibilities, if only writers saw her potential! But clearly they don't given that for the last several decades, they've been writing her out of stories, or killing her off in brutal fashion so that they don't have to deal with the question of what she's up to while Harvey is doing his crime stuff. Hell. Gilda was the catalyst for the Long Halloween, so why isn't Dark Victory about nor even include her in person!??? Why not explore her being Duela Dent's mother!? Why not show her standing by Bruce's side while the both of them try to help Harvey recover!??? Why do the writers try to make Harvey NOT a wife guy!? Why can't they let Gilda be around and Harvey's wife that's cooler and more chill than him!? Why must Harvey be single!? By far he has the best romantic chemistry with (out of anyone who isn't Gilda) Bruce and no other major character! But if you stick Harvey and Bruce together for that sweet, sweet tragic yaoi and angst... Well... First of all DC are COWARDS who refuse to let Bruce be into dudes. And second of all, why not just let Bruce, Harvey, and Gilda be together and poly!!!? But I'm no coward! Double the partners means double the chances for tragedy and angst! (Or comedy if you'd like!) And double the possibilities for love, recovery, and redemption! Gilda wouldn't and shouldn't give up on Harvey!

And Bruce and Gilda cheating on Harvey without his blessing!??? BROKE! Them being in a polycule? Excellent! And if you need any proof that Bruce, Harvey, and Gilda could be a functional polycule, you should read the daily newspaper Batman comics as archived on @daily-batman! Because they make a GREAT case for it there, and seeing their relationship develop in that story is just delightful! Harvey watches Batman (that he's half figured out is Bruce) kiss his wife (named Alice but like... She's CLEARLY just Gilda with a different name!) and isn't bothered by it AT ALL other than it giving her hope that he can get better! Kissing his wife? That he understands and is perfectly fine with. But giving her HOPE!!!??? Now THAT'S a line too far! Sounds like something someone poly might do! And also... That series finale!!! Lol. Harvey getting jealous of and trying to kill Bruce for thinking that he's stealing his girl? Nah. Broke. Harvey being a-okay with Bruce smooching his wife because he's already in love with Bruce too...? HELL YEAH! Let's do it! Who needs love triangles when you can have power throuples instead!??? Join the few of us that enjoy the ship! And give Gilda and BruHarvey the love they deserve!!!!

Also just LOOK at the image I sent and tell me that it DOESN'T look like Bruce, Harvey, and Gilda are getting poly-married! BruHarvey is juicy and even more juicy with the added DLC of Gilda in the mix! And Gilda deserves the whole world! Give them the world!

[le-sluagh]

#7 Incorrect Batman: Vigilante (My AU)

Poison Ivy: We just ate. Why are you making pancakes?

Harley Quinn: For the hyenas.

Poison Ivy: Why are you making pancakes for the hyenas?

Harley Quinn: They don't know how.

*****

Alfred: When's the last time you slept?

Batman: Uh... a few days ago, I think.

Alfred: A few- how many?!

Batman: Uh... *starts counting on fingers* I need more fingers...

Alfred: What you need is sleep!

*****

Scarecrow: What’s up with you?

Bane: What do you mean?

Scarecrow: You’ve been nice with me all day. What’s your game?

*****

Poison Ivy: Do you cook?

Harley Quinn: I made cake sometimes.

Harvey Dent: Yeah, it’s good.

Harley Quinn: Really?

Two Face: Don’t make him lie twice, Harley.

*****

Riddler, pointing Joker and Harley dancing outside, with Scarecrow in the middle, on the top of a tree:  What are they doing?

Poison Ivy:  Scarecrow say that he could survive at a struck lightning, so Joker and Harley make the dance of the rain, to make it arrives faster.

Scarecrow, screaming: COME AT ME LIGHT!!!

Joker and Harley Quinn, cheering: YAY!!!

*****

Mad Hatter: Hey, can we stay in your lair tonight?

Two Face: Why?

Mad Hatter: Scarecrow fiddled with an ouija board and cursed us.

Riddler: And Scarecrow doesn't know how to ‘banish spirits’, so he just throws salt at them and yell "DOES THIS LOOK LIKE A HOTEL TO YOU?!"

*****

Joker: Are we fighting or flirting?

Batman: I'm pinning you against a wall with my hand around your neck-

Joker: Your point?

*****

Riddler: There's nothing worse than people using big words they don't understand.

Scarecrow, grinning: I photosynthesize with this.

*****

Two Face: Who the fuck-

Penguin: Language!

Harvey Dent: Whom the fuck-

Penguin: No.

*****

*Playing whould you rather*

Two Face: Would you rather kill Riddler, or—

Mr.Freeze: Yes, kill him.

Two Face: I didn’t say the other thing—

Mr.Freeze: I don’t need to hear it.

Riddler: …I’m feeling a little unsafe.

*****

Mad Hatter: You know, you were right.

Riddler: About what specifically? Because I’m right about a lot of things.

[deathmetalunicorn1]

Can I request Yandere Platonic Two-Face, Harvey Dent and Batman/Bruce Wayne with Kanao Reader? (Harvey and Two-Face are split personalities, Harvey the Lawyer who wants to do right and Two-Face a violent mob boss to his enemies but gentle to those he loves, ex: His wife and his daughter, Reader)

Awhile before Harvey became Two-Face he discovers a young girl who can’t make any decisions for herself unless she’s told to (So he came to adopt her and gifts her one of his coins to help her make some decisions for herself if she’s unsure about what to do) and discovers Reader makes his darker personality much more tame (As they both have a kindred relationship when it comes to making decisions using a coin) unless she’s harmed or targeted in any way

However after he became Two-Face, Bruce Wayne takes Reader in to raise her (As a way to keep her safe until he can find a way to help Harvey come back) only to discover she has incredible fighting abilities and takes her in as another sidekick of his under his wing (She wears her Demon Slayer Uniform but has a mask to hide her identity)

Bruce has hope he can help Harvey after Reader shows she’s learning to make decisions without her coin as her crutch (Thanks to Robin)

-Harvey Dent remembered the day he found you, a little girl, lost in the dirty streets of Gotham, you were filthy, bruised, and emotionally numb from the abuse you had to deal with from your father, before he threw you out into the cold to survive on your own.

-You couldn’t have been more than six, but Harvey was never sure, because you were so malnourished and frail looking.

-He took you home, originally with the intent of cleaning you up and taking you to the police, but once he saw how emotionally fragile you were, he felt a tugging in his heart, one that led to him adopted you.

-The healing process took a long time, he cleaned you, tending to your wounds, and gave you plenty of food, all while treating you so gently, being a real father to you.

-Harvey discovered, later on, that you never seemed able to make decisions for yourself, you could never choose between things, be it movies or food.

-The day he gifted you a large silver coin was a turning point in your life, teaching you how to flip it, and telling you to make your decisions by flipping a coin.

-It was a slow process at first, but you were learning and Harvey was patient, and so was his wife, your adoptive mother, who nearly went feral after seeing the state you were in when Harvey first brought you home.

-You were showered with love with your new family, but when Harvey had his ‘accident’, becoming Two-Face, things changed.

-It was like he had two personalities, the gentle, loving father you’ve come to know and love over the years, and the other was a cruel mob boss who wouldn’t hesitate to kill another, usually using his coin to decide one’s fate.

-However, to you and your mother, Two-Face was soft around, being much like Harvey, but different, a different person, he was still gruff, but he would still always treat you with such gently kindness that you didn’t really care that your father was now two different people.

-Two-Face was only soft for you and your mother, you two were his weakness, and he protected those weaknesses fiercely, your home was always guarded, whenever you went out you had armed bodyguards who treated you like the princess you were, as they know if anything happened to you, it would be their heads.

-The only time he wasn’t soft around you is if you were threatened or hurt, then he was no holds bars until the threat had been taken care of, then he would turn back into a giant teddy bear, doting on and comforting you.

-Batman noticed the slight change in Two-Face, seeing that he wasn’t being as brutal as he normally would be, it made the crime fighter curious as to why the change.

-He investigated and couldn’t believe his eyes when he found Two-Face with a child, a young teenager, holding onto your hand on his Harvey side, out shopping together.

-He had no idea that Harvey had a child, but after a bit more digging, Batman figured out that you weren’t his biological child, as you looked nothing like him.

-Batman was concerned, after tailing you for a while, seeing how emotionally numb you were, but he knew Harvey and Two-Face had nothing to do with it, as he had seen his enemy treating you so carefully, so gently.

-Not willing to risk your safety, knowing how volatile Harvey could be, switching back and forth between personalities in only moments, Batman whisked you away so you could be safe until he brought Harvey back.

-You weren’t really sure what to make of this weird, masked man, he said he took you from Harvey, until he could get the help he needed, so you would be safe.

-He said you had something called ‘Stockholm Syndrome’ when you told him that you were already safe with your father, that he was always nice to you and never once, even after becoming Two-Face, did he make you afraid of him.

-Batman didn’t believe you, keeping you at a massive mansion, keeping any and all ways from you trying to reach out to your father, who was currently tearing Gotham apart looking for you.

-After meeting Bruce, Batman’s landlord, or at least that’s what he told you, he found out more about you, that Harvey found you as a child and took you in instead of taking you to the police or the orphanage and he’s raised you since there, almost six years now, and he helped you learn, gave you lots of food, and you became healthy and happy, or as happy as you were able to portray.

-The Bat Fam was a little thrown off by how much of an airhead you were, thinking Batman, Robin, Nightwing, and the others were just tenants of Bruce, who lived with his butler and various adopted children, not putting two and two together.

-Damien was quick to cling to you over the three months you were trapped, teaching you how to make decisions without your coin, it started off small, like chocolate or vanilla ice cream, and while you did appreciate his assistance, you still wanted to go home to your father.

-Bruce was stunned by your skills with a sword, after Damien wanted you to learn how to defend yourself, just in case, you looked so natural with a sword, like it was a missing piece of the puzzle.

-Batman tried to recruit you, but you refused, not wanting to be another one of his sidekicks, not liking the idea because you knew it would lead to you fighting your father and his men, which you refused to do.

-That is, until you realized that this was your chance to get out of the cage that Batman and Bruce put you in, and while not mistreated, you couldn’t leave.

-You felt bad, trying to deceive your new friends, like Robin, who was strangely similar to Damien as far as personalities went, and they all found it hysterical you couldn’t figure it out.

-You went out, wearing a black and white uniform with tall boots, looking similar to a Japanese officer’s uniform rather than a suit like Batman’s, using your sword, and you did have to admit, beating up bad guys was rather fun, as it gave you peace that bad people like this weren’t on the street anymore.

-You made the realization one night that your dad was one of these bad people, and it rocked you to the core, sending you into a near panic attack.

-You didn’t want to believe that he was a bad guy, until you realized that he was doing stuff these other bad guys were doing, sometimes even worse things!

-He was always so nice to you, he never yelled at you and made sure you were safe because he wanted you protected!

-Two-Face’s heart broke when he found you, laying a trap for the Bat Fam, and he immediately recognized you, removing your butterfly mask, and he froze when you recoiled from him in fear for the first time in your life.

-You asked him why did he do bad things, why was he a villain, and he was quick to point the blame to Batman, claiming he tainted you, turning you against him, brainwashing you!!

-You don’t remember the fight, having a breakdown as the two sides tried to attack one another, falling into a dead faint.

-Harvey, seeing you had fainted, took over and rushed to your side, cradling you close as Batman approached with the intent on taking you back and locking him up.

-Batman could see the anguish on Harvey’s side of the face, seeing that he didn’t want to lose you again, before Two-Face took over, “You’ll have my daughter over my dead body!” Batman could see that you were the one thing the two agreed on, that they were going to keep you safe.

-Bruce arranged for your dad to get the help he needed, promising you that once he was deemed sane, you and him could go home together, and Bruce would bring you to see your dad.

-The first visit you had with him you had leapt into his arms, sobbing loudly, showing the first real emotion in basically your whole life, as you felt so guilty for calling your dad a bad guy, but he didn’t blame you, and just held you close.

-It was going to be a healing process together, but Two-Face was willing to do anything to keep you by his side. Anything.

[betterthanbatman1]

bman and jason have a seriously strained relationship as is, and our braindead coma patients at DC have no interest in fixing it because Drama Sells, so what do you think would genuinely help these two get back to something real?

Ooh, great question, Anon! Thank you :)

So, right if the bat (pun intended) we know that Bruce and Jason don’t get along well, specifically because of their dissimilar morals.

In DC comics, Bruce only sees in a black or white, this or that way of thinking. It’s either ‘continue to fight crime and leave the rest to the justice system’ OR ‘focus on controlling crime and killing criminals to protect others’. Jason on the other hand sees both of these as opposing morals, and he also recognizes that there is a middle ground which is ‘get rid of the absolute worst of them’. Because Jason understands Bruce, he knows that nothing will make Bruce take a life or do things differently (I mean, his own death didn’t make a difference to Bruce’s morals), but Jason also believes that Bruce doesn’t have to change who he is, he just needs to accept that Jason’s methods are right for Gotham. Ultimately Bruce killing Joker for Jason would have helped their relationship, because Jason would have known that he was loved and his life was worth more than the clown’s. And in UTRH Jason says “I’m not talking about cobblepot or riddler or Dent… I’m talking about him, just him” Bare with me, I know that Jason says this regarding Bruce killing Joker for a different reason being -Joker’s crime was a lot more personal. However I still feel like regardless if Joker hadn’t killed Jason, Jason would still feel the same way about Joker- meaning he’d still think Joker deserves to die because of the sheer brutality and sadism and absolute power the clown has on Gotham & it’s people. (More than any other Gotham city rogues!)

So back to the point, if Bruce acknowledged (like Jason does!) the middle ground of killing the worst of the worst, then that would bring the two closer together.

Listen, I get that Bruce killing would forever change ‘The Batman’, but Bruce doesn’t have to kill people to accept the ideology because he knows Jason is right, he knows crime is down because of Jason. But NO!, DC has to make him beat the shit out of his son instead of having a fucking conversation.

Which brings me to this point. For some reason DC seems to think that these two have to fight no matter what. If they went to have soup with Alfred they’d still end up punching each other for whatever reason. It’s ridiculous. Is this what they think readers want? I completely agree with you, Anon. Drama sells, unfortunately.

The next point is that Bruce needs to actually have faith in his son because guess what?, Jason needs his father’s support to do good. Actual good. Bruce second guessing Jason and not trusting him with missions is exactly what gets Jason frustrated, causing him to feel inferior, worthless, or unlovable in Bruce’s eyes. From a psychological perspective, if Bruce trusted Jason and told him he trusted him, Jason would feel so much better about himself and their relationship. It’s so much better for a child to prove their parents are right for trusting them (motivating them positively) than having a child strive to prove their parents wrong (motivating them negatively). Bruce needs to stop being so condescending and Jason will finally feel heard. Bruce treats him like a child which is just so wrong and demeaning.

Last point is that Bruce needs to spend more time with Jason as Bruce and not as Batman. Sometimes Jason needs his father and that’s okay. It’s up to Bruce to be there for him. Whether Jason is an adult or not, he should be able to feel like he can call or visit or ask for help from Bruce without Bruce getting angry or telling him he’s off the mission.

At this point DC just needs to get the whole family seeing some therapists.

In conclusion, things that would help mend Bruce and Jason’s relationship:

Finding a common middle ground among their morals

Bruce should not beat his sons regardless if they are ‘criminals’ in his eyes or not

Bruce killing the Joker (this would bring Jason closer to Bruce, but it does cause some changes in Bruce’s character).

COMMUNICATION (this is the first step in therapy probably)

Having them be partners and act like partners. Bruce needs to get off his high horse and stop being so condescending to Jason.

Similar to the above-Bruce needs to trust Jason and make sure Jason knows Bruce trusts him.

Spend more time outside of crime fighting. Idk go watch a baseball game or go fishing. Have some family dinners and talk about the times when things were easy and fun and silly, before everything went to shit. Jason deserves his dad and Bruce deserves his son.

Therapy (The whole family would benefit).

[random-of-random]

Can I Save You?

Chapter 2: I’m Going to Get You Out of This

The airport was quiet, Patricia had never seen an airport that quiet when it wasn’t after midnight. Still filled with people, they were huddled around televisions watching Bane's latest statement. Patricia and Wilson stopped to watch with them.

"Behind you stands a symbol of oppression; Blackgate Prison, where a thousand men have languished under the name of this man..." He was holding up a picture. The man had blonde hair and a kind smile. "Harvey Dent, who has been held up to you as the shining example of justice."

"Who is Harvey Dent sir?" Patricia asked.

"The old DA. He was said to have been killed by Batman." Wilson replied.

"You have been supplied with a false idol to stop you from tearing down this corrupt city. Let me tell you the truth about Harvey Dent from the words of Gotham's police commissioner, James Gordon." Bane continued. Patricia saw a woman in the airport crying. Her dirty blonde hair was hanging at her face and two teenagers were sitting on either side of her. The girl had her head in her mothers shoulder, but the boy, however, the same blonde hair as his mom's was staring intently at the television. His eyes were dark but Patricia saw something he was clearly trying to hide. Fear, but not fear for him, fear for someone else. The mention of Commissioner Gordon's name had caught attention. "'The Batman didn't murder Harvey Dent, he saved my boy then took the blame for Harvey's appalling crimes so that I could, to my shame, build a lie around this fallen idol. I praised the mad man who tried to murder my own child but I can no longer live with my lie. It is time to trust the people of Gotham with the truth and it is time for me to resign.' " The woman cried harder.

"Well, this is certainly going to make things a lot worse." Wilson said, his hand was tapping his belt. A nervous twitch he had adopted when he was promoted to director.

"And do you accept this man's resignation? Do you accept the resignation of all these liars? Of all the corrupt?"

"What's he getting at?" Wilson asked. Patricia felt her heart racing.

"What ever it is, sir. It's nothing good."

"We take Gotham from the corrupt! The rich! The oppressors of generations who have kept you down with myths of opportunity, and we give it back to you... the people. Gotham is yours. None shall interfere. Do as you please. Start by storming Blackgate, and freeing the oppressed!" Bane continued. "Step forward those who would serve. For and army will be raised. The powerful will be ripped from their decadent nests, and cast out into the cold world that we know and endure. Courts will be convened. Spoils will be enjoyed. Blood will be shed. The police will survive, as they learn to serve true justice. This great city... it will endure. Gotham will survive!" As he finished his speech, the cameras quickly moved. A tank had a gun pointed at them. The camera dropped and there was a moment of static as a loud bang sounded through it's microphones.

"My God!" The cameraman must have been the one talking. The camera pointed at a now gaping hole in the side of a wall. For a moment there was just dust settling, but then men, by the dozens, wearing orange jumpsuits and carrying guns of every kind came storming through. The camera cut off and a reporter came quickly into view. Sitting in a studio, she was claiming technical difficulties.

"At least we know the police are safe for right now." Patricia commented. "Down in those sewers, they might not be able to help, but the prisoners can't get to them either."

“You called it, about going after the rich.”

“I think he wants chaos.” Patricia said with a sigh. “This just helps get there quicker.”

"We should be going." Wilson stated and Patricia followed them to get their luggage.

The sunlight was almost painful after being in the artificial light of the airport. A young man walked up to them, he couldn't have been more than twenty-one. He looked like how television and movies think FBI agents should look. He was dressed in a black suit, black tie, and dark sunglasses. His light blonde hair almost looked out of place.

"Mr. Wilson? Miss. Robertson?" He asked.

"Mr. Tiller?" Wilson replied and the kid nodded before smiling. Patricia could tell he was wearing a gun on his hip and another on his ankle. He graciously picked up Patricia's bag and lead them to a black SUV. Patricia climbed in the back and leaned her head back against the headrest. She studied the outside world once the vehicle started moving through the city. DC looked normal, despite the crisis in Gotham. People went in and out of grocery shops, moms took their children into daycare, and college kids went into bars for an early drunk. She couldn't imagine what the people of Gotham were experiencing. As far as she knew no one had left the city, the military wasn't letting anyone across the only bridge left and the tunnels out of the city had been blocked. The SUV they were in came to a standstill and Patricia sat up.

"I'm sorry." Tiller said quickly. "It's about that time. Traffic can come to a crawl or worse sometimes. I'll have us there as soon as I can." Patricia let her body fall against the comfortable seat.

Every time she closed her eyes, she saw Bane. The current Bane, cold, heartless. She closed her eyes anyway. Nightmares had stopped her normal sleep pattern. Well, what she called a normal sleep pattern. Going from 4 hours a night to 1 was just unhealthy. A thought popped into her head as she felt the seat behind her, a memory.

————-——————-

"How long have we been running for?" Patricia asked. She was sitting in a chair in a very small hotel room in Berlin, Germany.

"2 years?" Dominic replied. "You were 14 when we left."

"Then two years." Patricia commented.

"You should have stayed to finish school." Dominic's voice sounded sad.

“You’re less than two years older than me. You should have finished school.” The lines around his eyes increased and she could tell that he was smile. Dominic was laying on the hotel room bed. His body was tired, they had been in China the previous morning, and his belt had been taken off. As long as he didn't move the pain would stay at bay.

“I… I’m ready to tell you.” Dominic said barely above a whisper.

"About what happened to you?" Patricia asked her voice turning serious. She could see a flash of pain cloud his eyes. Not physical pain, mental. "I told you that you don’t have to tell me-“

"I didn't want to scare you." He said quietly. Patricia stood up and moved to the opposite side of the bed, trying her best not to move the bed very much she laid down beside him. She heard him sigh.

“You’re not going to scare me.” She pushed some hair off of his forehead.

"I was three or four. My mom woke me up late one night.” He started, his eyes closed. “I remember my room was so dark. She told me to hide under the bed. Men had broken into our home. I could hear stomping, a-and shouting. The men burst into my room and they found me, quickly. When they pulled me out from under the bed my mom began fighting them."

He took a ragged breath and Patricia felt his hand softly grasp hers. "It’s okay. I’m right here.” She assured him.

“She was so strong. She attacked the guy who was holding me. I think she stabbed him with something, but he was strong. He pulled me to the window. My room was on the second floor. He shouted something down, in a language I didn't understand. Then he dropped me."

Patricia inhaled sharply. Her eyes were wide and she squeezed his hand, urging him to continue.

"I felt an excruciating pain shoot down my back and I cried out, but as soon as I screamed a boot was put on my face. Someone trying to keep me quiet. I felt like I was suffocating and I tried kicking and pushing, but whenever I moved the pain was horrible. I saw my mom sneaking around the side of the house. The man holding me didn't." His eyes looked as if he was in a far off place. "I could feel warm blood running down my face mixing with tears. My mom jumped on the man. They fell into the darkness of the back yard and I tried to get up, call after her but all that came out was a scream. It hurt so bad that I passed out.”

He didn’t even realize he had been crying until Patricia wiped the tears from his cheeks.

“When I woke up I was in a hospital room and my mom was sitting a chair next to me. I felt so weak that I couldn't move. Mom told me not to."

"Do you know what hospital?" Patricia asked.

Dominic nodded. “Where your dad worked.” Patricia’s dad was a surgeon. “I guess I had just come out of an operation. Your dad was talking to my mom. He told her my back was severely broken and would never be the same. He wanted to do a lot of surgeries and my mom told him that we needed to run. That they would still come looking got me. So, he told her the only thing they could do is keep giving me pain killers. I think he performed, at least, one more surgery. I was in and out for what felt like weeks. The anesthetic and pain meds they were using just made me tired. It was the only time I wasn't in pain. We stayed there until I was healed enough to move then we were on the run.”

"Why?" Patricia asked. "Why are these men after you?"

"My father owes a debt." Dominic said with a sarcastic smile. "He offered me. That I be put in a prison instead of him."

"He can't do that!"

"Where he's from, he can. I am suppose to rot in prison for him." Patricia moved closer to him and rested her forehead against his shoulder. "They started catching up to us when I was eight. My mom knew we couldn't keep running."

"That's when you guys came to us." Patricia remembered. "You were about 8 then."

"My mom knew we could trust your dad after all the help he gave us before. Plus, your parents and my mom go way back.”

“I remember my mom saying they were friends as kids.” Patricia offered.

“When my mom left me there I was barely coherent. I remember the news story your dad brought into me saying she was found dead."

"I'm sorry Dominic." Patricia said softly.

"You saved me." He was looking at her.

"Not yet." She replied seriously. I am going to get you out of this. In one way or another." She felt his hand squeeze hers as he closed his eyes.

———————————

Patricia's door opened and the bright light was almost blinding.

"Sorry if I woke you." Tiller said shyly.

"I wasn't sleeping." Patricia replied stepping out of the car. She fixed her blazer and followed Wilson into a back entrance to the white house. She was immediately searched, and then they were led into the heart of the white house and down toward a basement. The situation room there was white and very well lit, a stark contrast MI6. FBI director Parsons was there to greet them and they took two seats around a large table. The secretary of defense as well as the president were among the people chosen to decide what to do about Bane.

"Wilson, you seemed to have an idea over the phone. What was it?" Parsons asked.

"I think we should send men in with the food. Workers will have to drive the food in to the city. It should be special forces, a chosen few. We take their badges, give them different ID's, and send them in."

"The first rations will go in within a few days. We can have fake IDs for all the forces made by then" Parsons commented.

"With all do respect sir." Patricia started. "We should not make a move that quickly."

"What do you mean?" He asked.

"I mean that Bane's men will be weary of any workers coming into the city. They'll expect cops. They need to be the same rotations of workers. The special forces and myself-"

"You think you're going in there?" Parsons asked.

"I know I'm going in there." Patricia answered. "I know Bane better than any of you. I've studied him. I'm also trained in the field." No one said anything. "Now, the special forces soldiers and myself should go every time. We need the men checking out the trucks to recognize us. Think that we're normal civilians who won't do anything."

"Alright, Robertson." The President said carefully. "Then you start as soon as the first shipment goes in."

"Yes, sir." Patricia replied.

“How long are we thinking this could last?” The President asked.

“As of now, sir.” Parsons started with a sigh. “We really have no idea how long it will take.”

The days and planning ticked away slowly. Patricia's ID read 'Megan Reilly' and their first trip into Gotham was rapidly approaching. They had picked several special forces officers that would rotate in and out. Communications with the saved commissioner Gordon as well as his detective had been made. They grocery shop they were going to had a back room where they would meet.

The ride across the bridge was slow and nerve racking. Patricia's driver was nervous and they were stopped before crossing completely. Men dressed for gorilla warfare checked their ID's. One eyed Patricia suspiciously.

"England?" He asked, looking at her ID.

"Yes." she answered quickly.

"Why are you here?" He asked. She took notice of the machine gun hanging off of his shoulder.

"I came for the American dream. Didn't turn out as I expected." He laughed and Patricia felt her body slightly relax as he handed her ID back and let them pass. The shop was half stocked when they arrived. As the truck began unloading the man at the counter signaled Patricia to head to the back. She was unnaturally nervous and could hear her heart beating. He was somewhere in this city. Somewhere closer than they'd been in a long time. The first person she saw had dark hair and matching eyes. He was younger but his eyes looked hardened. Immediately he walked up to her.

"John Blake." He said while shaking her hand.

"Gordon's detective." Patricia said returning the handshake. "Patricia Robertson, MI6."

"Good to meet you." He said hurried.

"You'll see me every time a delivery is made. We're trying to get the guards used to us, to trust us. Eventually we'll come in with more power and some of us will start to stay, build up as many men as possible."

"We need all the help we can get."

"Try to keep people calm." Patricia said softly. "Hopefully people won't fall for Bane's ploy. Stay hidden and get as many high standing members of Gotham society to hide as well. You'll see me soon."

"Thank you."

"Good luck, Blake. Be safe out there."

[phantoms-lair]

Batman Exalted thing - The First Exaltation

Bruce sometimes wished he crafted the identity of a reclusive hermit rather than a media darling. All he wanted to do was buckle down on the imminent attempt at a dimensional invasion and try to think of a way to solve it without relying on a power up from the enemy.

But instead here he was in an interview, talking about his company and charity work. "There's been some criticism of the Martha Wayne Free Clinic as of late. Some are skeptical about the noted criminal cliental." asked the interviewer.

Bruce fought back his annoyance. "My mother believed, as do I, that no person is expendable. Some have made poor decisions. Some had poor decisions made on their behalf without their consent. Some are children. All of them, all of them are entitled to medical care. The moment you start adding restrictions, it becomes all too easy to add more and more until only people who have been chosen as the 'right' people can gain aid. And there is nothing more abhorrent to me. Everyone in Gotham deserves care."

Will you protect all the people of Gotham?

Something twinged in his mind as wrong about the question, but he answered anyway. "Every last one." Bruce reaffirmed.

"That's quite a statement, given Gotham houses individuals like Scarecrow and the Joker." The interviewer pressed.

"They're still human. If Scarecrow had a heart attack in Blackgate, he'd still receive life saving care. Outside should be no different."

"But should that be the case? Do people like that deserve to be saved?"

Will you save them?

Bruce fought the urge to scowl. "Of course. And if I can save their minds too, I'll do it. I refuse to give up on anyone."

"MmmHmm." The interviewer looked at him like she'd figured something out. "You had a well know friendship with Harvey Dent. Between that and your charity clinic serving villains, it seems you have some connections to the wrong side of the tracks. Maybe the squeaky clean image of Bruce Wayne is hiding something else?"

Is your philanthropy really to help others, or just a cover?

He stood up, letting a sliver of his anger slip through. At this point it would be stranger not to take offense. "I watched my parents die in a mugging. It would have been so easy to act like you. To judge and look down on people I could easily blame for my grief. But my parents loved Gotham and wanted to see it rise above it's own ashes. And in trying to see their wishes granted I grew to love the city too. All of it. Good and Bad. And I will never give up on it or stop fighting to make it better."

Do you think you can protect the city?

"I will protect Gotham till the day it kills me." Bruce snarled, rising to his feet. And he knew something wasn't right. Something was feeding into his emotions. But it was too late to stop it. The screens cut to static as Bruce Wayne exploded.

~

The Bats had gotten their first, because of course they did. Jim was listening to his radio as he made his way to the studio, not saying a word.

Some of the reports were positive. Everyone else had made it out of the studio. Whatever had caused Bruce Wayne to explode in a dizzying array of light hadn't affected anyone else. This being Gotham, every had evacuated quickly. And the studio didn't seem to be catching ablaze. Small mercies.

From the radio he heard that most of the Bats had shown up, despite it being the middle of the day. They'd sealed the place tight, with Spoiler and Signal bodyguarding the entrance, saying only Gordon himself could get through. His men had tried to force the issue and they'd threatened Black Bat in retaliation.

Jim pulled into the crime scene that was likely the death spot of Gotham's Favorite Son. Spoiler was at the door, arms crossed, while Signal was talking to the EMTs. When she saw him she nodded and moved aside.

Jim didn't know what he was going to find inside. But whatever it was, it wasn't this. Despite video of the explosion going out before the feed was cut, Bruce Wayne seemed to be alive and well, sitting of the set with his head in his hands.

The power literally rippling off him was new. A bright blue energy flowed from his eyes and into a beautiful display rippling around him. It was Gotham, not any one part of it but a rippling view of the city from Park Row to Bristol ever shifting and changing, leading into a night sky with bats flying around. All contained in a very familiar, albeit larger than life silhouette of a sharp eared cowl and cape. The imagery plus his being there for the first conversation with Quill made it obvious.

Bruce Wayne was Batman. And he'd just Exalted, publicly, while in his civilian persona.

"Does one of you powers include seeing the future?" Nightwing asked someone on the other end of the phone. "Then I don't think not being able to accurately get into the mindset of a manipulative sociopath is a personal failing."

"What does Quill say?" Bruce asked in a completely exhausted tone.

"That you're an Exigent, like her. You're in 'Iconic' or 'Bonfire' anima, which is a representation of your soul and power and it's going to take a while for it to calm down. Also that in retrospect it makes sense as he wants a throne to be a power behind and Batman would never accept a throne but Bruce Wayne is more vulnerable. as well as already being a power in the city."

"Nightwing!" Robin hissed, glaring at Nightwing,

"He's involved." Bruce said in the same tired voice. "He's been involved since before you were born. We can trust him, and against Ketchup we need all the help we can get. The question is, what is our next move?" "If you want to kill off Bruce Wayne, now is the time." Red Robin said idlily. "Drake!" Robin shouted reprovingly. It wasn't just Bruce. It was Bruce's whole damn family. "What? He can make a new identity easily. All the paperwork is in place for Uncle Eddie if we need something in a pinch. But this would allow him to devote his time to his actual interests rather than juggle a very public identity that mostly annoys him." Red Robin shrugged. "Most people don't change identities like a coat, Baby Bird." Nightwing said, gently. "They need to get on my level." Red Robin sniped back.

"Killing off Bruce Wayne is not an option. I can feel the ripples of my death having an affect in the city. People are already planning to use it to roll back a lot of the philanthropic works I've done." Bruce blinked. "That interviewer was accepting a bribe to discredit me."

"How do you know?" Gordon asked. "I just do." Bruce sounded more bewildered than tired.

"Can an Exigent be the chosen of a location, like a city?" Nightwing asked Quill. "She says yes." Bruce sat up straighter. "Ask Quill what we should say. Her whole power revolves around stories and that's what we need right now."

"Okay, give her a minute." Nightwing instructed. "Okay, send out word that Bruce Wayne is alive, but under some kind of magical effect. Unknown, but a curse hasn't been ruled out. Bring in Justice League members know to work with magic as cover. Have them recommend isolation until the effects are fully known, which will give Bruce the privacy he needs to get this under control."

"I'll get on the official story then." He was going to get answers out of Batman, out of Bruce, but later. "If news of your survival isn't slowing down the plans, let me know. Nightwing, I take it you can call the Justice League." "There's someone else you need to call first." Bruce reminded Nightwing. "He's panicking right now with the news, but won't admit it."

"Oracle's already keeping Agent A informed." "Not him. R2." Nightwing snorted. "And he pretends he doesn't care." Jim saw himself out. And much as it still burned a little that something was obviously being kept from him, Bruce had said nothing to try to hide his own secrets or that of his children's. Which meant R2, whoever that was, was likely someone else's secret that Bruce didn't feel at liberty to say, like Oracle and Agent A. So fair.

That was for later. They all had work to do.

[electricprincess96]

Deconstructions of Batman, DC Superheroes, the BatFam Dynamic etc. We're interesting once or twice. We've had near on a decade of Batman deconstructions to the point I don't know what they're deconstructing anymore, there's nothing of the original left.

"Batman is actually the problem." That's interesting the first few times. After 10 years of that message it just makes me ask ok then why are we still getting Batman comics then?

"Batman is an abusive father." Its interesting to look at Bruce's flaws as a parent every now and then. But making Bruce an abusive asshole strips some of the BatFams most iconic and impactful stories of their emotional hook. I love Jason Todd, he's my favourite DC character, his story is at its most interesting and tragic when you acknowledge that while his relationship with Bruce was flawed, Bruce loved him and his death greatly impacted him. Bruce likewise loves all his kids, the idea in modern comics (with some exceptions) that he doesn't is just stupid and fundamentally misunderstands what makes Batman interesting, the fact he embodies fear but actually does have so much capacity for love.

"Batman should kill and the fact he doesn't makes him a villain". No. Just no. Batman's complete opposite Owlman is a nihilist who believes no one can be redeemed and the world is doomed. That suggests Bruce is in fact an optimist who believes in the inherent good of people, the likes of Mr Freeze, Harley Quinn, Harvey Dent etc. They aren't inherently evil. Sure you can make an argument he should kill the likes of the Joker but Bruce feels himself if he does it once he'll keep doing it eventually to people who don't deserve it. Bruce has to believe in redemption for his rogues cause otherwise there's no redemption for himself.

Plus Batman isn't real, if he went around killing his whole rogues gallery we'd eventually run out of stories to tell.

Anyway I've been in a real DC Comics mood lately and been really annoyed with the nihilistic tropes I've seen being thrown around both by the writers and by fans when discussing Batman.

[thealmostgoodartist]

How Not Help Your Favorite Hero— a Guide by Tim Drake

I just updated my fic yesterday night… but then ao3 crashed which meant not a lot of people got to see the update! So, here are the first 3 (around 3,000 words) chapters.

Rating: T (for language, blood, and themes.)

warnings for major character death (aka. This is based on that one interactive movie in which Bruce dies instead of Jason).

Relationship: Tim & Jason, and Dick & Clark

Summary: The one in which Dick tries to hold his family together, Tim hates cardio, and Jason kidnaps a “whole child”

enjoy.

—-

He could call.

It wouldn't take much.

He had memorized the phone number of the manor just a few days after he had started living there.

He could call.

Barbara would track his phone number and he would be on his way back home.

Home…

He hadn’t thought of the manor as home for months now, but if Dick had been trustful— and he seldom wasn’t— it still could be. Dick had said there would be no repercussions— that they were only looking to rehabilitate him and integrate him back into the family— but Jason knew better. 

The damned spot couldn’t be washed out.

He had a plan. He had to stick to the plan. It was already too late to go back. 

The alarm beeped bringing him out of his mental slumber and he arose from his bed. He hadn’t slept at all— he hadn’t slept since Bruce died— but he didn’t feel tired. He didn’t feel much those days, but he had to keep pushing. He was so close, even though his list of names kept getting longer. 

It would be all worth it in the end.

He had lost so much time planning for Two-Face— and he had had it! It would have been so easy to just pull the trigger if it hadn’t been for that kid— but now Harvey Dent was back in police custody. He now had to re-plan his execution for when he inevitably escaped from Arkham and maybe have to move some of the less important ones a few months—

It would cause some shifts in his overall schedule but it could be achieved.

—-

Jason had eyes on the creepy doll. 

Bruce had always said that the thing wasn’t demonic and that it was just the user projecting into the dummy. Jason wasn't too sure about that, and just in case he had brought extra ammunition for his precision rifle. 

The setup was ready and it was just a matter of time waiting for the perfect shot—

“Robin,” a voice called from somewhere behind him, and Jason almost turned around to tell B to “fuck off” and to let him work except….

B had been dead for six months now.

Jason felt the air rushing out of his lungs and a warm sting begin to form behind his eyes.

He had been over it. That's what killing Joker had been about. He had gotten his revenge. 

It should have been enough.

Why wasn’t it enough?

“Robin,” the voice called again, and it took a moment for Jason’s brain to reboot and finally notice that it wasn’t the voice wasn’t the low, rough-sounding one he had expected, but that of a kid.

“Spooky kid?” Jason said having had turned around and taken in the sight of the ten-year-old that had stopped him from killing Two Face. 

For two days, Jason had been seething over the fact, but now that he was face to face with the kid again he— well he didn’t know what he was feeling, but it wasn’t anger. 

“What the fuck are you doing here?”

The kid looked at him with the most determined face Jason had ever seen in someone so young and promptly pointed at the rifle.

“Robin, you have to be strong. Batman—“

“Yeah, no shit. You said the same thing in our last meeting,” Jason said, standing up from his crouched position and making his way over to the kid. “I mean what the fuck are you doing at 3 a.m. on a rooftop in the fucking Narrows?  How— why?”

“I followed you,” the kid said bluntly.

And that somehow didn’t make Jason feel any better.

“How did you follow me?” 

“I figured out what your most likely target would be.”

Jason decided to ignore the significance of what the kid said and instead turned his attention back to the scene below. If he didn’t take the shot soon, he would lose his chance and that would mean even more planning. But the kid—

Shit.

The kid.

He couldn’t just shoot someone in front of the kid— he had probably seen stuff like that before (this was Gotham after all) but still—

“Go home, kid.”

“No, Robin-“

“Go home, kid.”

“Jason!”

“What the fuck did you just call me?” Jason asked, his blood running cold.

The kid looked sheepish, but he didn’t falter under Jason’s glare.

“Jason,” he repeated, “this isn’t you.”

“Oh, fuck off.”

“You are not doing this out of any sense of Justice—“

“Are you going to tell me he isn’t deserving of this? He is the Ventriloquist—“

“Yes, he might deserve it, but it wasn’t like are not doing this because he deserves it. You are doing this because you are hurt.”

Jason felt a gut punch.

“How do you even know that?”

“I’ve been following you.”

And Jason had so many questions but the kid just continued—

“I know what happened to Bruce— gosh, I know how much he meant to you— but this isn’t the way. It isn’t what he would have wanted.”

—-

Being kidnapped was honestly a way better outcome than what Tim had expected. When he had stepped in the first time, he had just expected to get shot immediately but things had turned out pretty well. 

Now, he had successfully stopped tie assassinations attempts and it wasn’t like anyone was going to miss him if he was gone for a bit longer.

The last time he had been kidnapped it hadn’t been for more than a week and his capturers had let him go after finding out there was no way to contact his parents for a ransom. Tim didn’t expect the Bats to hold him for too long.

Tim tried to not show too much excitement from where he was sitting down next to the Batcomputer as Nightwing— dressed as Batman— and Red Robin fought in hushed tones.

“That’s a whole child, Jason.” Dick was saying.

“Yes, and now he is your problem,” Jason said as he turned around and started making his way over to his motorcycle.

“Where are you going?” Dick yelled.

“Back to my safe house.”

“You should stay. We will talk more in the morning.”

“No way,” he said putting his helmet on, “I brought you the security problem, now I get to leave.”

The loud roar of the bike filled the cave, but just as suddenly as it had started it was gone.

Nightwing turned around and stared at Tim.

Tim stared back.

chapter 2:

“I told you this was going to happen!” The little kid barked at him.

“And I told you l would solve it,” Dick said removing his cowl, already feeling the beginning of another stress headache bubbling up in his skull.

“When I found you months ago,” the kid continued, taking no notice of his predicament, “I told you that Robin was changing. I told you that he needed your help, but you said that Robin was doing ok—“

“So, then what? You just decided you were gonna follow him?”

“It wouldn’t have been the first time—“

“We can’t afford to have civilians get involved in the line of work that we do. Especially not ten-year-olds.”

“I’m almost thirteen—“

“That doesn’t make it any better, kid—“

“I don’t want to cause any trouble. As soon as you help Jason, I’m out of here,” the kid said in earnest, “I promise. Just— Gotham needs Robin.”

Dick looked at the kid incredulously and was about to continue the pointless argument when a noise on the stairwell leading to the house caught his attention.

He turned his head to see Alfred coming down the stairs.

His mind raced for a way to explain the stranger in the Batcave, but before he could conjure up an explanation, Alfred broke the silence.

“What’s your name?” He asked the kid, uncharacteristically cold.

“It’s not important—“ 

“I asked for your name.”

The kid hesitated, but his resolve was broken quickly under Alfred’s glare.

“Timothy Drake, sir.”

“Wait,” Dick said, his brain recognizing the name from years prior, “As in our neighbor?”

The kid looked away, as Dick studied his face for any recognizable features.

And yup, that was the kid he had seen at the Wayne galas.

“Just—“

—-

Go home, kid.

The words resonated in his head just as his steps bounced back to him upon the once-pristine floors of Drake Manor.

He had avoided the house as much as possible ever since his father had fallen into a coma. He had spent the days next to his father’s hospital bed and the nights following Red Robin across Gotham.

He had expected that the time away from the place would have made him more sentimental toward it, but he guessed that that would have required an initial emotional connection. He felt nothing towards the place. No good memories were hiding in the walls, only the remnants of a lonely childhood.

The only reason he was back was that Mr. Pennyworth had offered to drive him to his home and he had thought it would have been impolite to decline.

He wished he had.

This place wasn’t home.

Home was the streets of Gotham when he would follow Batman and Robin.

Home was what Robin had back at Wayne Manor.

And Robin was good and thus he deserved his home.

Tim would make sure.

He just had to push a bit harder, and everything would be alright again.

Tim was sure.

—-

“Fuck off.”

“Jason, please—“

“I don’t need your help—“

“I’m not saying you need my help… just please come back home, little wing.” Said Dick in the same tone he had always used whenever he was trying to calm someone. It was brutally honest and it had always been something that Jason had tried to imitate. Dick was good at talking to people. It made Jason want to believe him.

But no.

No.

He had a plan…

It would make things better. 

For everyone. 

There would be no more need for vigilantes once he was done. 

No more need and no more deaths and no more pain.

He turned away, unable to meet Dick’s gaze even with the cowl on. 

Dick tried to say something, but his words were stifled by the sound of Jason’s grapple gun firing.

 Jason flew away as Dick screamed after him, desperate. Yet, Jason couldn’t turn back. He had to keep going. Dick might not have seen it, but Jason knew soon he would understand. 

After all, he was doing it all for them.

He was an outsider— he had always been ever since Bruce had taken him in— but that wouldn’t stop him from trying to fix things for them— for the family that Bruce had created. He owed him that. 

After all, he was the Robin that got Batman killed.

He landed on the rooftop with a muffled thud.

The impromptu meeting with Dick had messed up his schedule slightly. He was supposed to already be down by the docks. Maybe if he hurried he could still make it before the shipment—

“Robin,”

Shit.

Not again.

He had hoped that a meeting with fucking Batman would be enough to deter the kid, but alas, Spooky kid was back— great. 

Jason turned around to continue his argument with the child—

He burst out laughing.

“Oh my god, what the fuck are you wearing?” He managed to say between wheezes and giggles.

“Robin,” the kid said in the most serious tone Jason had ever heard, looking at him with a scowl that could rival Batman’s. 

Jason was tempted to stop laughing, but one look at the kid— dressed in dark clothes, with knee and elbow pads and a Batman helmet— send him into another wave of hysterics.

He hadn’t laughed in quite a while and it felt… it felt good.

“Ok, kid,” he said, finally managing to calm down, “what are you doing?”

“I am here to help you—“

“Pardon me?”

“I’m here to help you.”

“How— why are you dressed like that?”

“To help you,”

Jason looked at him confused trying to figure out how the two things were correlated.

“I am going to be your sidekick.”

“What? No.” 

Was this kid actually insane?

“You are like ten! You can’t be a vigilante.”

“Yes I can,” the kid said, crossing his arms, “and I’m almost thirteen!”

“I don’t care you are ‘almost thirteen’!” Jason said, unable to believe he was fighting a child, “you can’t just— no.”

“Why not? You started at this age too—“

“I had training!”

“I have proven myself to be a good enough detective to figure out Bruce Wayne was Batman—“

“That’s not—“

“And I have been following you around for years and you haven’t even noticed!”

What?

“What?”

His phone buzzed, and he took it out to see a notification. The shipment had arrived. He wouldn’t make it in time.

If the kid had just—

He took a deep breath, trying to drown the rising anger. The kid couldn’t have known.

First Dick and now this! How much worse could his day get?

He took another breath.

“Why? Just why?”

The kid looked at him and for the first time, Jason noticed a deep anger in his eyes.

“You are going to get yourself killed.”

Jason fought the urge to roll his eyes. What did this kid even know? How could he look so convinced saying such lies? He must have known he sounded insane. He didn’t even know Jason, so how could he judge?

“Jason listen to me!”

Against his better judgment, he did.

“The path you are on will lead to nothing but your destruction. You can’t keep doing this— you can’t. You are acting irrationally. You are taking unnecessary risks and you are hurting not only yourself but everyone else who stands in your path.

“Gotham needs Robin. We already lost Batman, we can’t lose you too. If he kept us safe, you gave us hope, Jason. You need to be strong.”

And then, he wished he hadn’t.

“I thought Dick would be able to deal with you,” Jason said.

“He wouldn’t listen,” the kid said, sounding irritated, “So, I am your problem now. I am doing this either with your help or without it.”

“Where are your parents?”

“It’s complicated,” he said, “will you train me or not?”

Chapter 3

Bruce would have been so disappointed—

“I trained you better than this,” he would have said.

“I thought you would have done better,” he would have said.

And maybe, for once, Dick would have admitted he was right without arguing back.

Because he knew that if he had just stopped and looked like that small part of his brain was screaming for him to do… he would have noticed.

He would have noticed that Jason’s smile never reached his eyes; that he hadn’t cried once; that he was not sleeping; that he was not eating; that he was spending too long in the Batcave; that he was too eager to return to patrol… and that he wasn’t healing.

But maybe he had noticed… maybe he had noticed and decided it was easier to do nothing. Maybe he had thought that the problem would go away if he just ignored it…

This was his fault. He should have been there. He should have done something! Anything!  

Jason had been in pain— it had completely overflown him just looking for a way to be released— but Dick hadn’t noticed. Or at least, he hadn’t been able to notice. There had been so much to do— so much to plan… the funeral… The Justice league… Bruce Wayne… Wayne Enterprises… the family…

Batman.

He thought he had it— he thought he was going to be able to hold onto it too— but Jason slipped right off his hand… and he hadn’t begun to try to catch him until it was too late.

Even the neighbor’s kid who lived a few miles away had noticed before him.

Why was he so bad at this?

He should have done better.

He was supposed to be better… but maybe he wasn’t.

“I thought I’d find you here,” said a familiar voice bringing him out of— what Jason had once called— his morose introspection.

He didn’t have to turn around to know the look on Clark’s face— it had been the same ever since he had returned from that mission. It wasn’t judgmental— even though Dick felt it should be— nor was it pitying; it was just kind, and so full of understanding and care and hurt and love and—

And Dick didn’t know how the man could still stand so hopeful even after the last six months.

“What are you doing here, Clark?” Dick said, hoping the alien with super-hearing wouldn’t notice the way his voice wavered. 

“There was a Justice League meeting today—“

“Shit,” he said, “I— I had it marked and everything! I don’t know how I forgot— I promise I really tried to make it this time—“

“Dick, stop.”

And he did.

“Can you take that cowl off? Please?”

Suddenly there was a warm hand on his shoulder, and any argument he had begun to think of died immediately.

He took off his cowl and finally turned to meet the man.

The look he has expected was right there painted on his face and Dick felt the world begin to tear apart.

“Kid—“ Clark began and the world completely came apart. The ground opened and Dick was falling and—

The warm hand on his shoulder pulled him towards a warm body and Dick was enveloped in one of the best hugs he could ever remember receiving.

He buried his head in Clark’s shoulder, and he couldn’t help the sob that escaped his body as Clark did his best to comfort him. 

He hadn’t cried in front of anyone since the funeral. Everyone had been hurting and they needed him and it had just felt unnecessary to plaster his emotions onto others. He had done a great job at it too… or at least he had thought he had. Jason proved to be an argument against that point.

“I have no idea what the fuck I’m doing,” he said after what felt like an eternity.

“Why didn’t you come to me?” Clark asked, “Or anyone? Dick, you have so many people that care about you and would have been here to help you. Rao, Wally won’t stop asking me to check on you since you’ve been ignoring his calls.”

“Not on purpose!” Dick responded, “I thought I had it! I thought I could handle this on my own— and I part of me still thinks I should…  this is not what Bruce would have done— it not what Batman—“

“Kid, you are not Batman.”

Dick pulled away feeling indignant.

“What do you mean?” He asked angrily.

“You are not Batman,” Clark repeated as it was the most obvious thing in the world, “Bruce would have never wanted you to be Batman. He wanted you to be better— and you are! Your biggest strength lies in accomplishing what Bruce could never do: you were able to let go. That darkness he relished on? You do not have that. And that makes you so admirable and I’m sure anyone that knows you would say the same thing. You are Nightwing. You are not Batman and I’m so sorry that I wasn’t there to help you—“

“But Gotham needs Batman!”

Clark looked thoughtful for a moment.

“Maybe it doesn’t.” He said.

“What do you mean?”

“Bruce might have been a recluse-weirdo to most people, but he did manage to garner allies.”

Clark made his way over to the Batcomputer and brought up a list of names… a very long list of names.

“These are the ones only in Gotham, but of course, most of the JL, JSA, and the Titans would be more than happy to help. You are not alone here. We will help you keep Gotham safe.”

Clark turned towards Dick.

“You just go find Jason and bring him home.”

“I’ve been trying to do that, but I can’t find him. When I did he just ran away from me. I just hope I can find him before something bad happens.”

—-

“This is most definitely not training!”

“Actually, Spooky Kid, it is training,” Jason argued for what felt like the thousandth time as he slowed his pace again to make sure the kid didn’t faceplant to the floor. Again. 

“If it is training,” the kid said, sounding extremely put together for someone with two scraped knees and who looked like he was about to throw up, “then when do I get to go out on patrol with you?”

“This is literally your first ‘training’, and you have proven yourself incapable of keeping up with me on a slow run.”

“That is only because you are taller than me.”

“It is not my problem that you are short.”

“I am not short. I am a perfectly good height for my age.”

“Yes, but you are ten.”

“I am not ten. I am almost thirteen.”

Jason studied the kid behind him for a moment.

“You see, I am convinced you are lying to me.”

https://archiveofourown.org/works/44748827

(9 chapters total. Unfinished.)

Chapters 4-6:

[lunarsilkscreen]

The Dark Knight

"I'm good with calculations" - Lau, the Calculator

"Some men want to watch the world burn." - Alfred the Imperialist

"You wanna know how I got these scars?" - Joker, being 100% completely honest

The two stories he tells, everybody talks about them like they couldn't be a part of the same story. A little bit of therapy, secrets, he tells to people he's thinking about killing. And just tailored enough that the people he's telling never know the whole story.

"I see my father in you" he tells one patron. Whenever he's telling these stories, he's honest, and he's telling them because he sees the people he sees.

A drunk father, to the mob boss. A mother/wife who can't love.

And the little bits interspersed here and there. Lau was the calculator (in gritty realism, it's better not to have a costume). But there's one calculation he didn't make; what if the good guy doesn't play by the rules? What if, and I'm just spit balling here, he'd been feeding mob information to his biggest customer "Wayne enterprises" the same company, that'd been making purchases from him on a secret para-military project codenamed "Flying Fox".

Bat butler's key words of advice in this movie, are that *some people cannot be understood* if of courses he were to take a wider perspective of his story about a thief who stole from a British museum to return the treasures to Africa, he would know that he is infact tainted by his British understanding of people who are not British. His understanding, his stereotype, is of the "British Custodian" a picture brit-land paints itself of course.

They can do no wrong as long as they are the stewards. Except for everything they do wrong in creating things they think need stewardship.

"These "civilized" people? They'll eat each other." - Joker

The Joker is much more agile at making decisions and calculation s, and his combat skills are on the level of Batman. He did something Batman, Harvey Dent, and the entire police force could not do. He got 500 mob members arrested, simply by robbing one of their banks.

And he let them take credit for it.

Why did he kill the people on his initial team? Because if he didn't, the mob would. And, as he says in the meeting with the mob "I know the squealers when I see them."

Who is really cleaning up the streets here?

The lawyer, Coleman Reese, who works for Wayne Enterprises doing an audit for the company's dealing with Lau is wearing a purple tie, he has the same swagger as the Joker, even does the lip licking thing.

The message was to Lucious Fox

How do you think he was tipped off for this? Maybe in another canon, he would be the employee who turns into the riddler. Fox didn't tell Bruce, because he lost faith in the project and was too afraid to do it himself.

Harvey Dent has a two headed coin, he threatens one of Jokers cohorts with "tails, you lose". Batman doesn't know this he says "You'd leave a man's life to chance?" -- "Well not exactly" he says with a smile.

The seeds of distrust in each other are already sown.

Poor Rachel Dawes, stuck in this lie where she lets both Harvey and Bruce think she's in love with them. She knew Joker's plan, to let Batman decide which to save, and knew if Batman didn't show up, she was dead. And here she is telling Harvey how much she loves him because she thinks he's going to die, and it'll make it easier on him.

I know what you might be asking: "When Lambo?" And the answer is 145:22. 1:25:22. You know what a recurring number in this movie is? 22, from the number on the school bus, Harvey Dent's coin has 1922 on it, the bomb in hong Kong is featured having 2:22 on it before the scene change.

Everybody suggests that it's just because it's the second of the Christopher Nolan trilogy. I think it's because it references every Batman Comic #22 up until that point.

"If Coleman Reese isn't dead in the next sixty minutes, then I blow up a hospital " - Joker sowing distrust in the populace AND giving credence to Reese's words. He knew the hospital would be empty, and he was going to blow it up regardless.

After a whole conversation about things going according to plan, which puts people's mind at ease; All according to plan.

When Batman tells Fox about the bat sonar, it's his suit turning purple.

"You oughta know, you bought it" - Joker to the Mafia about his suit

The reason the prisoner boat didn't blow up the other boat, is because a man would've rather died there than to live. (After convincing the warden to give it to him.)

The civilian guy says "They made their choice to murder and steal" as he contemplates murdering an entire ferry of people. Including the guards and bus driver. Before promptly returning the detonator.

The Batman doesn't kill him. Twice now, he doesn't kill him. No matter what he does or who he kills. The Batman won't Kill. He will make people suffer, break their legs, force them into debt over hospital bills. He'll make them want to kill themselves. But no, he won't do it directly.

And the Joker, well, he won't kill himself. And nobody seems to want to do it for him either.

The Batman tho... He nearly lost his life due to a technical malfunction because he couldn't trust his own eyes. If the Joker were just a little more willing to kill the Bat instead of sending a message, he could've owned the City.

The Joker, see--he thinks Bruce is lucky to have lost his parents at such a young age. If he hadn't, he might've had a few scars of his own to show off.

[gholateg]

This would be so fucking *easy* to do too.

First pass bullshit under the break!

First movie: Bruce has been Batman in Gotham for a year. The rogues are just starting to spin up, Gordon is still a lieutenant, rampant police corruption. Dent moves back to Gotham as the new DA, works with Wayne enterprises since Bruce and him swam in the same social circles before Bruce went Training. Mad Hatter and Penguin are the main villains. Hatter brainwashes people to pull heists, some of them Waynetech people, which draws Dent and Bruce together even more. Hatter gets caught, but Penguin gets off, but does so by throwing the bulk of the GCPD under the bus.

Extra credit Scene: The Ventriloquist (one of the last Hatter brainwash victims) is seen shaking down the owner of a Circus.

Second movie: Random non-cape crime skyrockets as the GCPD is gutted from corruption charges. Gordon gets promoted to Captain, gets the unlucky job of being Liaison to the DA. Dent starts to drag in non-Gotham cops to fill the void, but it's not going well because Reasons.

Bruce goes to the Circus to look for clues about daredevil thief Roxy Rocket, since her heists are in the same towns the Circus is going though. While there, the Ventriloquist's goons murder the Flying Graysons. Afterward, Dent makes the call to work with Cobblepot to stop the street violence. Penguin makes a note that he's not the only game in town anymore though.

Bruce takes in Dick, as the Circus disbands. Roxy continues her one woman rocket rave, stealing things and going after wise guys, as we now know Roxy is the daughter of the Circus owner, who stole things to keep the circus afloat.

Dick figures this out, and goes after her himself, eventually meeting up with Batman. A large warehouse fight between Team Ventriloquist and Roxy explodes out into the open. Roxy streaks off and her rocket explodes, Bruce and Dick are unmasked while crawling out of the rubble.

Extra Credits scene: While the *person* holding Ventriloquist's puppet is killed in the warehouse fire, the puppet itself is utterly unharmed, and brought to Arkham in a Lector Box.

We see Calendar Man marking another line on the wall of his cell.

Movie Three: Bruce and Grayson are working on being a team, Alfred is being The Dad. Bruce doesn't want Dick to fall into the same place he has, and wants better for him, while Dick doesn't want Bruce to go about his one man crusade alone. Insert hope stuff here. Alfred is being Alfred throughout all the movies as needed.

Meanwhile, street crime is back under control, but it's given Cobblepot an even firmer hold on Gotham's underbelly *and* on Dent. Penguin starts to squeeze Harvey to get away with more things, and Dent's slowly getting more and more angry. Lashing out and going for harsher sentences on the guys he's "allowed" to prosecute. Dent starts to distance himself from Bruce. Bruce makes a point that Dent "Can't just flip a coin about how you treat criminals"

While this angst parade occurs: People are being found dead in odd and disturbing ways. Eventually Dick figures out it's all based on holidays. Belly laugh day gets a corpse found with a split open belly, someone gets shot in the back of the head in a theater on Lincoln's birthday, Peter Dinklage gets brained in the head by a pot of real gold on St Patricks day, ect.

Dent eventually has enough, and turns on Cobblepot. Cobblepot takes it surprisingly well and "washes his hands of all this trouble."

This of course leads to Dent's car being bombed out, after he's lost a *very* public trial against one of Penguin's higher level goons. For fun, he was a counterfeiter of dollar coins.

Bruce and Dick go to his funeral, closed casket. They feel for Harvey and Bruce wishes things could have gone differently. Dent *was* making a dent in the crime and the corruption (at least to the general public eye) of Gotham. Gordon is there, notices them sitting together and you see his eyes go huge as he realizes.

inter cut with the funeral, we hop back to Wayne Manor, where Alfred is is in the kitchen, dressed in a baker's apron and his hands covered in flour. he's humming to himself as he listens to the rain.

A door swings open, and we see Calendar Man creeping about, an old sheep herder's knife in his hand. Swaps between the funeral and the manor as the music swells.

As we get to Gordon figuring out who Bruce and Dick are, we hear the loud CRACK of a shotgun going off. Calander Man lays sprawled in the floor, torso smoking. Alfred, still covered in flour and now holding a pump action shotgun, keeps the barrel pointed at the body.

We cut to later with calendar man being handcuffed to a stretcher and Bruce and Dick both hugging a still be-flour'ed Alfred who is fretting about getting their suits messed up, on Passover of all days.

Extra Credits scene:

We pan into Penguin's swank bird themed office. Someone is sitting in their chair, but we can't see them. Oswald walks in, flamingo girl on his arm, both looking horrified as he stares at the person in the chair.

we hear a coin flip, and land. and then a shot rings out.

I will give so much money to the first Hollywood Batman director who has the guts to give me:

- onscreen Robin

- a Harvey Dent who shows up at least one full movie before Two-Face

- a secretly soft and tender Bruce who hopes so much it hurts to watch

- Alfred with a shotgun

- not so much as a single Joker mention

[kevin-day-is-bi]

Embarking on watching all the live action Batman movies pt 6: The Dark Knight (2008)

I hate this movie so much that I had a whole argument about it four years ago that was so huge I managed to turn it into an officially structured school debate with two parts: is it an accurate Batman movie and is it sexist.

Good things first. The Two-Face sfx makeup is fantastic, the Jim Gordon characterization is great, and I continue to enjoy that Lucius Fox is a strong tertiary character. There's one shining comic-accurate scene, and that's the whole end Joker-trying-to-prove-humanity-is-evil bit.

Everything else...

The Falcone/Maroni crime families are too big of a topic to be relegated to a side plot. They are also enemies, and having them be the same removes a lot of the dirty money undercurrents that are important to their existence. Having Joker turn Harvey into Two-Face was done well-enough that if I wasn't an avid Two-Face fan, it would've been okay. However, it literally destroys the whole point of his character, which is that Harvey Dent was supposed to fight the secret monsters of Gotham while Batman fought the public ones, and then those secret monsters turn him into a public one. Removing that makes me ask questions like why is he specifically a DA? Why is he specifically going after the crime families? Also I don't like that they didn't make Harvey and Bruce friends. That plays a huge role in Bruce's guilt after the creation of Two-Face.

The Joker is...not a good Joker. Heath Ledger is a fantastic actor, the makeup is great, but the writing is just not comic accurate. Having him focus more on the machinations, having these plans and backup plans, working with the crime families, all of that sort of ruins what the Joker is. He's not a villain, he doesn't have reasoning, he's just evil. The two lines that I can see people pushing back on that are "it's about sending a message" and whatever the "chaos incarnate" line is, and that's fair, but the movie just doesn't back either of those things up. Time and time again, it gets played as your standard villain. Now, the reason that I can sort of see it working is because in this, the Joker is the second Rogue that Gotham has had. If you treat him as a normal villain, and put him alongside Riddler or Ivy, it raises the question of "why is he so hard to capture, then?", but because they made him an early villain, and Batman's struggles with the cops got in the way, it's not necessarily a disastrous change when it comes to the plot, just when it comes to characterization.

In terms of Batman, the character, Christian Bale continues to do an okay Batman. There's a little too much Bruce and Bruce Wayne in this, especially for something that has three villain story lines, but Bale continues to differentiate between Bruce Wayne, Bruce, and Batman perfectly fine. Not my favourite, but not inaccurate.

Plot wise, the movie is confused. There's too many side plots and tertiary characters, and very few of them get the spotlight. It dragged in a lot of places, to the point where I genuinely just considered skipping ahead (I did not, so I could be as accurate as possible). They put too much focus on Harvey's journey for the amount of changes that they made to it, and playing the three villain game in the way that they did just didn't work.

And then finally, the part of this argument that I lost in Spring 2020, is it sexist? Yes, so very much that I actually yelled at my laptop. There's one woman, she's a secondary character, she repeatedly gets saved by Batman, despite there being a tertiary woman this movie still does not pass the Bechdel test, nearly all of her scenes are romantic, and to top it all off, she gets fridged. For those who don't know, the term "fridging your women" refers to killing or injuring the women in your story to further a man's story line. She is literally blown up while talking about how much she loves a man, and then her voice over post-death is also talking about how much she loves a man.

1.5/10. It gets points for the Two-Face makeup and the nice Jim Gordon.

[maniac-reboggles]

As a note, Harvey's DID was not sudden. These days, canon typically says that Harvey has always had DID (he was abused as a child by his father and he developed DID as a coping mechanism), but that he repressed it for YEARS! Harvey has ALWAYS dealt with high emotions, trauma, and near-death experiences. But he would always repress those negative experiences and put that onto the entity that would eventually become Two-Face. Also Harvey and Two-Face may have killed/almost killed and tortured his father at some point, so that wouldn't help with him having a connection with death lol

However I don't know that it's the best idea to try to explain Harvey's neurodivergency with science fiction mumbo jumbo...? Like Harvey Dent as a character has DID and OCD, two things that very much exist in real life for very non-fantastical reasons. I'm not saying that you can't do it, just be careful in how you play with this idea and try to do it in a way that doesn't stereotype or erase plural and OCD experiences. (But if you are plural or have OCD you can entirely ignore my note of concern here!)

However I will say that there is some level of precedent within DC canon of Harvey (and plural people in general) of having some level of sensitivity towards supernatural phenomena...? In the famous story, The Doom that Came to Gotham Harvey gets turned into a magical supernatural flesh portal to a demon dimension, and in the currently on going story Batman: City of Madness, for some reason Harvey is able to see and communicate with The Other Harvey (a version of Harvey from an underground alternate reality that is a sort of eldritch copy/mockery of the Gotham that we know which has a tentacle monster version of Batman and where Harvey got his face melted horizontally instead of vertically) where it seems that no one else really can. And Other Harvey is very concerned for normal Harvey's reality and has been psychically bothering Harvey and Two-Face A LOT so that they can warn and help Batman in doing something about the Other Batman coming to normal Gotham. So Harvey might have some level of innate supernatural sensitivity or ability...? But no idea where it may have come from. (Also Arnold Wesker (the Ventriloquist) may also be somewhat sensitive to supernatural forces...? He's also plural, but his puppet- Scarface- may be more than just a puppet and headmate/alter that Arnold has...? You can make a decent argument that Scarface is some kind of spirit independent from Arnold that haunts the puppet, and also Arnold...)

Two-Face is a Liminal

So! Harvey Dent was splashed in the face with pure Acid, strong enough to instantly melt and burn off half of his Face.

He definitely nearly died from that, if not from the Blood Loss then from the Infections and Chemical Poisoning that you would expect. Now, since he didn't actually die he didn't become a Ghost, but multiple factors led to Harvey becoming a Liminal.

He was born in Gotham, a city with a very high Ecto Level, his attack was one filled with many extremely powerful emotions, and near death experiences tend to draw Ectoplasm to the location.

It makes sense doesn't it?

The sudden Split Personality, that's his Traumatized Ghost Side and his Barely hanging oon Human Side conflicting. It got so bad he developed DID.

His Obsession with the Coin is his Literal Ghostly Obsession. In Life he was always preaching about how "Crime always pays, its fate" so now he relies on Fate to make decisions.

Harvey Dent is a Liminal Human, parading around as a Villain in Gotham.

Imagine his surprise when Danny shows up at his Base, asking for a Lawyer? Apparently he needs help with a Legal Case of some sort.

What are these, Anti Ecto Acts?