#BUT. AGAIN. I HAVE TO STOP

[reikunrei]

really intrigued by this new stage play delving more into Henry's past and how it will inform/add to what we've already gotten of him in s4, and what we may potentially get in s5, so i kinda just want to ramble lol.

the way i see it, and how we as an audience and how some or all of the characters are meant to view him, is not necessarily that he's the stereotypical "big bad" villain. sure, he's villainous and the overall antagonist, and while he displays extremely monstrous behavior, he's not the "monster" that Eleven envisions.

she has a very black and white view of good vs bad. she's been fighting with this for a while, especially internally and how she views herself. from season 1, she thinks she's "the monster." she opened the initial gate, which made Will go missing, killed countless others, and got all of her new friends in trouble.

in season 2, we kind of started to touch on the idea of what kind of behavior is "good or bad" when she meets Kali. they share an unfathomable bond and love each other dearly through their shared experiences in Hawkins Lab. Kali teaches her how to be stronger, that she shouldn't hide from her powers, she should use them to help herself. and El leans into it, allows herself to be fueled by her rage and sadness. but she hesitates. she wants to strengthen this bond with Kali, her sister, but it feels wrong.

she's killed people, yes, but it's different when it's in self defense in the heat of the moment vs ambushing someone who, while he did hurt them, is currently unawares. plus, there's other innocent children involved. he may have hurt her, but El knows the pain of losing a parent. that's what brought her there in the first place. she can't do that to someone else. her grief hurts, but any relief will be fleeting under the further pain she now causes. she doesn't want to be the monster.

in season 3, this topic is mostly only broached with Billy. Billy is not a good dude. in fact, he sucks major chode and has approximately zero redeeming qualities, and the only reason Max is so torn up about his death is because of survivor's guilt.

but still, in order to beat the Mind Flayer, El has to break through to him, so she finds those happy memories of him with his mom on the beach, and makes him remember that, makes him fight for his mom, rather than the hell he's been through for the last X number of years. he might be a fucking shitty asshole, but he can pull off one valiant deed to save those around him, because he doesn't want to entirely give in to his misery. he wants to remember those happy moments, and wants his mother to be happy, wherever she may be, and that means making sure this monster (the Mind Flayer) is dead.

(plus i guess it's also like a stand-in for his dad. Billy's been abused his whole life, and has become the abuser, and he's sick of all of it. so now, he finally fights back and stands up for his mom like he's always wanted to.)

season 4 is a fucking smorgasbord. they went so heavy-handed with the "good vs evil" "monster vs superhero" shit that it would be hilarious if it weren't totally understandable bc all of these characters are 14 years old and don't have a full grasp on the nuances of the world just yet. again, we get El worrying that she could be the monster, that she'll make everything worse, that she's the one to blame for everything. Mike, Dr. Owens, Will, Brenner, none of them can convince her that, no matter what she did or does, she is their "hero." Owens gets pretty close, he at least gets a few smiles out of her, but she's still uncertain.

she thinks she can no longer be the hero because she lost her powers, that now she's useless, and even if now she's like a "normal kid," she knows she'll never really fit in. but then, when she starts at Nina, she fears that her powers will make her the monster all over again. that she's already done something so monstrous that she won't ever be able to forgive herself.

enter, Henry and the truth. that he killed all of those children. that he was the one behind everything to do with the Upside Down. that he was the reason that Brenner started all of these experiments and built his little "family" in their prison.

so she says Henry's the monster. or rather, Brenner was the monster, and he built Henry into the formidable monster that he then became when he fledged into Vecna. she's now dead-set on blaming it all on those two men, and it all started with Brenner, her Papa. even so, when she's saying goodbye to him, she's receptive to his touch. she leans into his hand, she accepts his affection.

she is so close to getting it. no, Brenner is not a good man, but she did love him at one point, and she still does to some degree. she might say he's the monster, but i think she doesn't really believe that. she just wants to convince herself that it's true so she can find someone to blame, to make it easy, to make it black and white.

and then Henry pushes her closer to the truth! he says that, no, Brenner was not a monster. he was just a man. a mediocre man, who sought power in others. Brenner was just a person.

again, he may have done monstrous things in that lab, but he was not the monster that El wants him to be.

and that leads us to how she views Henry.

where we left off leaves it a bit gray for me. obviously she tries talking him out of all of it, to stop his plan, to leave her friend alone, etc. "you are not the monster, Henry." but he doesn't listen. he likes being the monster. he's good at being the monster. he feels entirely justified in his actions and believes he's helping. and he's so entrenched in his own pain that he doesn't see any need to stop now while he's so close to his goal. Henry even turns it back on El, saying that she was the reason Henry even became Vecna in the first place. so, again, she could be called the "true monster" here for being the major catalyst of it all.

i think if El had the chance in that moment, she would have killed Henry. she was terrified watching him kill one of her best friends, one of her only friends in the whole world. she's killed people to protect her friends before, she isn't going to stop now.

but she couldn't. she had to rely on the teens in the Upside Down to take out his body. and, obviously, that didn't work in the end.

we don't see El talk about it any further, but with all of these prior conversations and experiences, once she's out of the heat of the moment, i think she would not want to kill Henry. just like Kali, the two of them have a bond and their shared experience under Brenner. she sees Henry as a sort of role model, a guardian, an older brother. at least, she did when she became so devoted to helping him, but just like with Brenner, i don't think that's entirely gone away.

she's terrified of him, disgusted by him, horrified at his behavior, but she simply can't see him as the pure "monster" that she wants him to be. she has to start to realize that it will never be possible to group either of them into one category. and she has to learn that that includes herself.

Eleven very easily could have become "Vecna," so to speak. she was just lucky enough to have a support system when she escaped the lab. she found the right kids who would love and support her through it all, the good and the bad, so that even if she does monstrous things, they'll be there for her to help her pick up the pieces and fix it together.

Henry didn't have that. he hid himself away, didn't admit to his family when things were bothering him (or, if he did, they didn't give him the support he needed), and allowed himself to become jaded with anything and everything that inconvenienced him. after all, nobody was helping him fix it, so he has to do it all himself.

he was trapped. just a little kid stuck in an unsavory situation, perhaps aggravated by whatever "shadow" it was that was living in the Creel House and stoking this burning ember inside of him. he was upset, hurt, felt abandoned and lost, and lashed out. it's no different to the times that El killed people in self defense, though perhaps Henry had a smidge more premeditation.

regardless, the core of both of their behaviors is the same: wanting to get out of their cage.

El was just lucky enough to have friends, and Henry was unfortunate to not have any strong, loving bonds like he so craved and needed.

Kali is sort of a middle ground for me at the moment. she is somewhere between El and Henry. she's using her hurt and anger and sadness as fuel, like Henry, but she still finds light and love in the world with her friends and family, like El. she wants to hurt people, like Henry, but she understands that there's only specific people who deserve that hurt, like El.

Henry just wants to throw out the whole baby with the bath. sure, there's specific people he's upset with, but it was the whole world that was set up to make his life harder. he wants to take out everyone because he believes the flaw runs all the way to the roots.

Eleven and Henry are on opposite ends of the spectrum. Henry wants to only see the bad, and El only wants to see the good.

Henry was hurt and then left to wallow in it for his entire life with no one offering out their hand to him. so, if everyone else is going to be "evil," why shouldn't he? he finds power that way, makes himself stronger, so he relies on it to build himself up, to the point that he actively avoids the happy memories of his victims. he can't admit that there might be good in the world, because that would strip him of all of his power. his stance would suddenly have no foundation if he were to acknowledge that there is good and love and light mixed in with all of his grief.

with this play, we'll get a glimpse at the possible happy memories that Henry has. we'll find ammunition for El to use against him, to point at and go "see! you were happy! you can still be happy! you don't have to be the monster! you can choose to get better!" that he has other qualities he can nurture other than his hatred. like Billy, he can find the good in an otherwise shitty situation and hang onto it like a life raft.

i'm not entirely sure what to expect from, nor do i know what i really want out of, the ending of season 5. will they kill Henry? will they reform him? will Henry kill himself? will Henry sacrifice himself? there's many options, and i could have a field day going through the possibilities of all of them.

at the very least, i'm almost entirely convinced that El will not want to kill him. especially with a potential time skip leaving her lots of room off-screen to mull it all over. i think she will be determined to talk him out of it. i even get a kick out of the idea of Max being trapped in his head and rooting around in his memories, playing the Ghost of Christmas Past to dredge up his younger years and go "remember this? you were happy! it's not all bad all the time, here's the evidence!"

when it comes to the other characters, i think a lot of them will still want to kill Henry. he caused all of this, after all. he's actively trying to kill them, destroy Hawkins, and potentially drag the whole world into darkness. they have to kill him, right!?

i do believe that El could potentially convince some of them to not try to kill him. especially Will, but i need to stop myself from going on that tangent or this will turn into a 20 page essay lol.

but even if they do reform him, i don't know if i want an actual "redemption" for him. like, that's not really the right word, i don't think, but i am also stupid, so.

like, i think there's lots of room for El to admit that she has done monstrous things, but her friends still stand by her and work with her to fix anything and everything that she may have caused, deliberately or not, because they love her. and she wants Henry to understand that he is just the same as her, and he is also deserving of understanding and help in fixing anything wrong he may have done, whether deliberately or because he was pushed into it.

but i haven't quite worked out where he would stand if they kept him alive. like, i can imagine two paths for him right now off the top of my head:

they fight and Henry is gravely injured. El tries to convince him and it doesn't work. Henry is petulant and stubborn and stuck in his anger and pain, and he doesn't want to listen to this child, his protégé, talk down to him and try to boss him around. so, he kills himself because, if his plan is going to fail, he'd rather be dead.

El tries to convince him and it does work, but he's in too deep now. the plan is in motion, and the only way to stop it completely is his death. so, he sacrifices himself to close the gates and keep their worlds forever separated, saving the Right Side Up from its horrible fate, but losing his own life in the process.

i hadn't thought of the 2nd option until today, and i'm actually quite fond of it. could you imagine our big villain, the one behind all of the characters' misery and pain and death, actually working on their side to fix the mess he's made?

i can totally see Henry's death being framed as a big tragedy, like Barb or Bob or Eddie, rather than the triumphant "win" it otherwise could have been. their antagonist dies, and it's sad.

and even if it was something like Will landing the final blow and killing Henry, or him killing himself, or even El taking his life, it will all be sad, because El will have learned that Henry was not purely the monster of Vecna that they'd been envisioning. he was an ordinary boy, trying to live an ordinary life, and that was ripped away from him (again, like Will, but again, i have to control myself!!!).

i so badly want El to acknowledge that she could have become our story's "Vecna," and Henry always had the capacity to become like Eleven.

in this story, there is no "monster" and no "superhero." every single person is capable of great good and great evil at the same time, and El and Henry need to meet in the middle on that spectrum. if you aren't already, i think that by the end of season 5, every member of the audience will be sympathetic toward Henry Creel, because everyone will understand that we are all capable of becoming as "bad" as him, and even he is capable of becoming "good."

should Henry be forgiven? probably not. nobody owes him forgiveness. nobody should go "aww he saved the day in the end, he was good all along!" that's not the point. the point is that despite doing bad things, all of these characters are deserving of understanding. you don't have to forgive to understand.

i really am just so interested to see more of Henry's past in an objective manner, rather than through Victor's or Henry's memory. we'll get some real meat to chew on and humanize this man that has been unfairly placed into the cookie-cutter mold of "monster."

[prouvaireafterdark]

listen I know it's heartbreaking that Claudia dies and it's understandable to wish she didn't, but let's please not accuse the writers of fridging her. to do so is a fundamental misunderstanding of the story and is frankly insulting to the intelligence and skill of the writers of the show.

Claudia's death, and the overwhelming grief and regret her parents experience because of it, is quite literally the point of the entire story. she dies because Anne's daughter Michele died of leukemia when she was five years old and there was nothing she or her husband could do to prevent it.

writing IWTV was how Anne coped with the unimaginable loss of a parent losing her child. she created a story about a little girl that could not die and then killed her anyway. Claudia's death is a senseless, unavoidable tragedy, just like Michele's was. the grief that haunts Louis and Lestat for the rest of their lives is the same grief that haunted Anne and her husband.

so when you're accusing people of killing Claudia off to benefit a story about two men, please remember that in real life sometimes parents lose their children. please remember Michele Rice.

she's the reason Claudia exists.

she's also the reason Claudia cannot be saved.

[hinamie]

happy gojoday to all who celebrate

[heartorbit]

if we could stay connected, just like this

[marblerose-rue]

uh-huh

[chloesimaginationthings]

Michael learns of Jeff’s pizza from FNAF Into the pit

[doomedclockworkdotmp3]

his therapist woulda had a field day at their next appointment

[anxi04]

tim and bruce have an odd relationship to the rest of the family. they don’t act like father and son but it seems like they have a “deeper” bond than the others

bruce seems to take tim’s advice more seriously, bruce actually takes a break if tim tells him, tim still gets benched but not nearly as much as he should, and most confusingly, tim benched bruce once. not alfred benching bruce, TIM.

normally bruce has to be forced to take a break, and normally by alfred, but if tim says “you’re benched for a week” bruce? listens?

they have no idea why. some of them ask dick if he knows since he was there but he’s just as confused

and then despite all that there’s also such a strain between them? it’s really on the line of a professional relationship and almost a care taker. it’s very confusing. and then the times bruce gives tim a present or anything like that and tim stops and stares at him for a second, like he’s dissecting bruce. no one is able to fully figure it. until bruce is de-aged to tim’s robin era.

tim is very adamant about most of them, but especially jason and damian, do not reveal their names to him. for the time being they have a strictly professional relationship with their father who doesn’t know them.

they finally get some of the picture when they see tim start acting as bruce’s caretaker. tim switches between being gentle “hey, you need to sleep” to screaming at bruce. it always works. tim knows exactly which version bruce needs and it scares the team cause that has to require some practice

they’re then also thrown for a loop when they hear bruce call out jason’s name in a shocked voice, which makes sense cause he doesn’t know jason is alive but jason still has his helmet on so what? and then they hear a voice none of them have heard. except dick goes pale and jason’s breath hitches. and suddenly tim is responding to jason’s name and acting weird, almost like what some of dicks stories described jason as. and it’s so fucked up when they’re watching time act like someone else and bruce going along with it

the dynamic they’re getting is also fucked up once again when, during one of bruce’s really bad days, tim straight up acts like bruce’s parent. and bruce reacts well.

they’re all horrified by this. the realization that tim and bruce’s relationship has so many layers and that they do act like father and son sometimes. except bruce isn’t the father and tim isn’t the son

[e-vasong]

I think that Daniel should get a little cat that he names something cute. like typo. and it should be the silliest dumbest creature in the world, and Armand should be so jealous of that cat that it still somehow makes him look stupid in comparison.

he's just like. you, feline companion to my beloved. most loathsome of creatures. i see through your foul ruse. my daniel may be taken in by your charms, but i will not be played for the fool. you seek to replace me in his esteems, and you may yet distract him for a time. but he will see the truth of you soon enough. your cruelty. batting him in the face with your dreadful claws while he is trying to rest. begging for your meals at the wicked hours of the morning and night! you will visit no more of these horrors upon him. know this, 'typo.' if you did not bring my daniel such joy i would see you removed from this home and cast out into street like a beggar. i suggest you watch your back.

[daisybell-on-a-carousel]

Being someone who read Under The Red Hood and came out with the firm belief that, for Jason, it's not about killing Joker, it's about Jason wanting proof Batman would choose him over the Joker (bc shelia chose the joker). Makes seeing any other media where it's all about just wanting the Joker dead is a teeny bit frustrating. to be honest

Jason could've killed the Joker himself, really, really easily. Jason kidnaps the Joker before the confrontation. I can't open my comic for a reference right now, but it felt like he had the Joker for quite a bit before the confrontation. He had him. He beat him up with a crowbar. He had every single opportunity to kill the Joker himself, but he didn't because that wasn't his goal. Make no mistake, he did plan for the Joker to be dead by the end of it, but do you see what im trying to say here

Edit: If I knew this post was gonna get 1000+ notes I would've tried to word it better or something, this was a rant I made on the way to the grocery store 😭

It's not about making Batman kill either. When Batman says he won't kill, Jason adjusts and goes, 'Let ME kill the Joker or kill me to stop me' instead. The test is all about Batman choosing him. The whole final confrontation is Jason's first death again. The parent, The Joker, and the explosives. It even ends with Jason unable to move as a bomb goes off right next to him again because the parent didn't choose Jason. And instead tried finding an option that'd benefit them and (consequencely) letting the Joker walk, again, lol, lmao <-in agony

[soon-palestine]

DON'T BE SILENT MAKE YOURSELF BE HEARD #FreePalestine

[image description : a person setting on his computer and says " but I am just one person " below are many persons the same way she is on their desktops telling themselves " I can't do anything " and then many more of people the same way End Description.]

[bamsara]

If you're stressing out about a part of the writing process for fanfic to the point where it's not fun anymore, just don't do that part

Post that fanfic with 1000 grammar and spelling errors. Make your characters OOC and give it a Mary Sue. It is a hobby you're sharing not a literature assignment you have to turn in by midnight

[shepscapades]

Contrary to popular belief etho and bdubs are not divorced and in this essay I will

[egophiliac]

I don’t think we’ve ever seen you draw knight of dawn before 🤔 what are your thoughts about him? Or take?

I've drawn him a couple of times, just really little/in the background. but I should draw him more, I love this guy a lot! I have many, many thoughts about him and the way he parallels Silver...and also I think it is extremely funny that his ghost is stuck in a ring. especially considering where that ring has been for the last 16-ish years.

[heartorbit]

happy halloween! 🎃🐈‍⬛👻🐇

[bacchuschucklefuck]

truly this one's just for me. I can do what I want foreverrr