#Azula character analysis

[askathewierdo]

Flamio and welcome to my character analysis of Azula!

I have been reading since I haven't tried The Last Airbender fanFiction on Ao3 recently and an observation caught my eye and I was talking to over with my friend I'm kind of verbally came across some stuff about Azula that I felt like sharing.

So the main thing is that some fanfiction feel the need to give Azul a redemption Arc and others find a way to make it where she doesn't really need a redemption Arc. The main difference is that a redemption Arc means the character regrets their decisions and wants to atone for them or do better.

On the other hand what I've seen more and more of is where after the war she's mentally ill and is just so broken that she has no reason to be against the protagonists anymore.

This led me to kind of just think about well wait a minute why was she broken again? And so from that I kind of went back and it backtracked and backtracked until I went all the way back to basically her birth. Yeah you're in for a little bit of a talk. ;) Stick around for a deeper understanding of this ✨ traumatized✨ 14yr antagonist.

First you have a fact that she is a princess. She is the highest form of a celebrity being the princess of the leader of the nation who is winning a World War. She was raised with politics all around her. The world of politics is a ruthless one and she was raised from the cradle to be able to handle it. Any child born to nobility is. This led to her more sadistic and crueler tendencies however my belief is that they were nurtured by a simple thing that has great impact especially on children, a lack of someone to trust.

Unreliable adult figure in her life #1! Her mother, Ursa. Ursa put herself at a distance from Azula, one of the most memorable lines in which she speaks to her daughter in front of her daughter is,

"What is wrong with that child?"

Her reaction to jokes that Azula tells no matter how mean spirited they might be give off a cold and almost fearful relationship. Ursa did not act as a mother to Azula in any way. Azula saw this and acknowledged it. Azula's view on her relationship with her mother is easily summed up in Azula's comments in the episode The Beach.

"My own mother thought I was a monster. She was right, of course, but it still hurt."

Unreliable adult figure in her life #2! Her uncle, Iroh. While there are very few people who don't like Iroh in the show he is still human and does have a few faults. One of these failings of his is how he treated Azula. (Or at least this is my opinion on the matter.) Similar to Ursa, Iroh kept Azula at a distance. In the flashback to when Iroh is leading the siege at Ba Sing Se he sends a knife to Zuko and a doll to Azula. If anyone new Azula for more than a few days they would know that a doll is not the right gift for this person. Iroh giving Azula a doll and then a knife to Zuko is kind of a cold move.

We know that gender roles aren't really a thing in the Fire Nation, definitely not to the extent that the Northern Water Tribe has. We see a female soldier at the Boiling Rock and it's implied that there are other female soldiers among the army. Mai and Ty Lee are both trained in combat and Mai's proficiency with knives did not seem out of the ordinary. This makes Iroh's gift to Azula even more distant feeling. He could have sent a second knife or if he wanted to discourage her from violence try to find a better suited gift but a doll was not the right gift. And honestly, she already had flamethrowers at her hands whenever she wanted.

There's also after the episode The Chase when Iroh is injured after Azula shot him with fire trying to escape and Iroh is trying to teach Zuko how to redirect lightning, Iroh says something that even though Azula is on the enemy side feels like it's a little bit much to be aimed at a 14 year old girl even if she is dangerous.

"She's crazy, and she needs to go down."

Unreliable adult figure in her life #3! Her Father, Fire Lord Ozai the manipulative man himself. This man is so cold and manipulative that he knew exactly what to do to achieve what he wanted. He favored Azula because she was strong and his wife feared her and so he had the full ability to influence her without his wife's interference. He gave her just enough affection for her loyalty but purposely left her starving for verification and affection from him. He made sure to leave her scared of him leaving her.

At the very end of the show in the scene where he crowns himself Phoenix King she comes up and mentions that they will be leaving soon or something along those lines and he corrects her and says that he will be leaving that she'll be staying and she gets mad. She tells him that he can't throw her away like Zuko and that it was her idea in the first place. While she seems mad it's more fear in her eyes. Ozai turns to her and simply says

"Azula"

Any traces of anger are replaced with total and utter fear. If you look at the placement of their positions it's similar to Zuko in the Agni Kai when he got his scar. One could draw the conclusion that she was afraid of him treating her like Zuko and abandoning her. Ozai knew exactly what he was doing in this scene. He knew exactly what he was doing in every scene in relation to Azula.

In conclusion? She had literally no one she could trust. Those were the adults in her lives and she was the royal princess, nobles were going to want to use her and servants were beneath her and would not try to form that kind of relationship with her. There is an exception to this, she did have two friends after all who she did trust— to a point. Mai and Ty Lee. Well look where that ended up. At the Boiling Rock they betrayed her, this is exactly her breaking point. After that episode was when she descended into madness. Their betrayal was the cause or breaking point. She literally had no one she could trust.

Under Ba Sing Se she offered a way out for Zuko— that he took. She risked her own skin to make a place for her brother back at home. She wanted someone to trust even if it was subconsciously that she was trying to seek someone out. She knew her brother like the back of her hand, she knew he was too weak (kind) to try to manipulate or use her. She tried to help him how she could in her own way. (Keep in mind that he threw this away on The Day Of Black Sun and Ozai probably confronted Azula in some way about his confession and her lies.)

Also in the episode the beach she laughs when someone calls Ty Lee a circus freak but then looks regretful when Ty Lee lashes out. Azula does have compassion she just doesn't show it, generally in regard for her own safety.

In conclusion Azula really just needs someone she can legitimately trust who won't try to use her or manipulate her or hurt her. Also, she's 14.

This is also how people can make fanfiction where in post war Zuko and Azula end up in a shaky relationship because Azula realizes that overall he is her safest bet as far as someone she can trust.

If you're still here then thank you for reading my mind dump.

[sh3nlong-promakh0s]

tbqh thanks for this long and rad post 100000% agree with everything u said gd the hypocrisy surrounding azula is strong within the atla fanbase

but also to counter all this fuckery with the canon in comics and annoying writers, at least there's some good shit on ao3 lmao

YANG: "I love Azula. She’s such a great character. She’s totally in control for most of the animated series, and then at the very end, she cracks. She goes insane. We wanted to keep both her controlling side and her crazy side in the comics, so we gave her something of a split personality. We also wanted to figure out what it means to care for somebody like that, somebody who vacillates between evil and insane. That’s what Zuko has to do. I think a lot of us can relate to that." THOUGHTS?

… *sigh* I will say that I’m quite honored that my thoughts about all these matters seem to be so valuable, since I keep getting asks about them… But with this ask goes another long one… so get ready for the Azula fangirl rant, turn around and leave if you’d rather spare yourself from reading a huge meta about her.

Okay, then… Yang claims he “loves” Azula, that she’s a great character. Indeed, Azula is a great character, but what makes her great isn’t that she was in control for most the series and then she cracked. If that’s what Yang thinks is great about her, then for the millionth time he proves he understands NOTHING about her character, and thus shows that he doesn’t love Azula. He loves her character’s role in ATLA, but he doesn’t love the character herself.

Let’s look at all of the Princess’s actions from a more neutral point of view for once, shall we? Azula is loyal to her father, first and foremost. Her father is the leader of our opposing faction, so that immediately turns Azula into a villain. BUT THIS DOES NOT MEAN AZULA IS EVIL.

Azula is highly intelligent and manipulative, she knows just what to do to handle people and to get them to do what she needs them to. Her methods are terrible, she tricks and deludes her brother into a false sense of security just to accomplish her mission, she openly threatens her friend’s life to intimidate her and to give her no choice but to join her on her mission, she also accepts defeat but then attacks her uncle and flees… okay, all this is true and I’m not going to change that she’s ruthless and goes to any ends to accomplish her goals.

But there’s much more to Azula than just the conqueror, than the Princess who is determined to get her way. Zuko Alone is the first time we get to see that there’s a lot more to Azula than what meets the eye. So now, flashback time.

Little sisters and older brothers tend to have conflicts just like Zuko and Azula did, and I’m saying it because my situation with my older brother was downright similar to theirs. When I saw Zuko obtaining that amazing, meaningful dagger… while Azula was just given a doll, I thought I was watching my childhood on screen. Azula is seen as a little girl by her uncle all the way until she’s older, when she becomes a threat. Before that, she’s a little girl just like any other, who would enjoy playing with dolls… only, she’s not. She never was.

Moving on to Ursa, we see Ursa being very nice to Zuko, spending time with him and encouraging him to spend time with his sister… but do we ever see ANY approval of Ursa towards Azula in any form? No, we don’t. As I pointed out before, in these very comic books written by Yang we see Ursa treat Zuko kindly in one situation and cast Azula aside in the very same situation. What am I talking about? Toddler Zuko comes to mommy crying at night, telling her he’s scared, telling her that he dreamt Azula had burned his toys. Not only is it that Ursa didn’t bother telling her son that his sister wouldn’t do such a thing (WHICH IS WHAT MOST MOTHERS DO, REGARDLESS IF IT’S TRUE OR NOT!), but then she tells him that if he’s scared he has to hold on to the good dreams and never let them go! Right? Right.

Years later, Ursa overhears Azula teasing Zuko about Ozai killing him, and she drags her daughter out to talk to her. Azula explains everything she heard, and the last thing she tells her mother is that she’s so scared FOR ZUKO! She’s not even claiming she’s afraid for her own sake, she’s saying she’s scared for her brother’s fate. Again, even if this were a lie (which I’m sure most people think it is…), Ursa’s response to Azula saying she’s scared? “Go to bed, young lady, now“ quoted just as Ursa said it. She tries to appease Zuko’s fear, but Azula’s fear is nothing to her. Tell me, just what does this say about Ursa as Azula’s mother?

So let’s see… an uncle and a mother who dote and praise her brother, but all they do is disdain her and act warily around Azula. Is it honestly any wonder that Azula turns towards the only person who seems to appreciate her? Is it any surprise that she took so much after Ozai, that she became his favorite child? She was the embodiment of Ozai’s perfect heir. Prodigy firebender, genius strategist, commanding authority at all times… the only person who praised her and seemed to show her any appreciation, no matter of what kind, was Ozai.

And you know what the sad part is? That most of Azula’s behavior came from a dire need of attention. Do you really think that kids who act like she does are evil and insane? That upon seeing a kid behaving like this, her mother should say “What’s wrong with that child?”…

Azula’s behavior is far more frequent in children than it would seem. Yes, perhaps she wasn’t as innocent as most girls out there, but that didn’t mean she was a freak just for the things she did and said. Why is that? Because Azula was CRAVING attention. Azula wanted attention, and she had no idea how to obtain it from her mother. Her father was easy enough to sway, a cool bending move or two would have him nodding in approval… but her mother? Her mother didn’t care for Azula’s bending accomplishments. I doubt she’d care much about Azula’s school accomplishments either, because in academics, whatever the younger child does, the older one already did first (the curse of the youngest, believe it or not). So Azula had no idea what to do to impress her mother. Emulating Zuko’s behaviour wouldn’t work, because as I said, she would be amazed by Zuko but with Azula it would just be imitation of what Zuko did first. So what’s Azula’s conclusion? If Zuko is a good kid, and that’s the way he gets mom to pay attention to him, then I’m going to be a bad kid and maybe she’ll start paying attention to me too.

THIS HAPPENS. It’s quite a common behavior from kids who feel they don’t get enough attention, they try to obtain it through whichever way they can and they have quite a hard time seeing that their actions are wrong. So Azula burns flowers and talks about her grandfather dying and at last, Ursa finally bothers to look at her… but looking at her as what? As a monster. Ursa doesn’t realize, given her “What’s wrong with that child?” phrase, that Azula isn’t acting like this because she’s a Vaatu spawn, as I read someone say recently. Ursa doesn’t seem to care that Azula’s behavior is encouraged by Ozai, she’s oblivious to the fact that he’s more than happy to see his youngest child is turning out to be so similar to himself. Ursa telling Azula off just makes Azula turn towards Ozai for approval, and she always gets it. Who is she going to side with, with the mother who has never showed her any kindness, or with the father that praises her every move? It’s just a matter of logic. Did Ursa ever think of sitting down to talk to Azula as she did with Zuko? Just spending some quality time together, smiling and laughing and encouraging her subtly to be a better person, to just enjoy sitting in the gardens together…

Given what we’ve seen from Ursa up to date, the answer would be NO.

So Azula grows in this environment, and thus she becomes the teenager we meet her as. Ruthless, strong, willing to achieve her goals through any means. And with the strong conviction to be fiercely loyal to her nation and her father first and foremost.

Now speeding up a little, let’s take a close look at Azula’s “could have” scenarios. Azula defeats and captures the Kyoshi Warriors, takes their outfits and takes over Ba Sing Se in a matter of days. When I first watched this, I thought “Damn, Azula must have killed the warriors!” … but guess what? She didn’t. She didn’t kill them even though she could have.

She takes over Ba Sing Se in a heartbeat when her uncle spent 500 days sieging the city, killing Earth Kingdom soldiers and causing the death of Fire Nation soldiers as well, his son included. How many people did Azula get killed when she took over Ba Sing Se? One, and technically none, given that Aang came back to life anyways. So… how about that.

Azula offers Zuko a helping hand in Ba Sing Se. Given how she had been so cruel towards him previously, I expected her offer to be hollow. I thought she’d use him to her benefit and once the battle was done she’d lock him up with Iroh.

But she didn’t! What does this say, really? What possible profit came for Azula if she gave Zuko the chance to return to the Fire Nation in quality of hero instead of traitor? I’ll tell you: NONE!

If Azula were as megalomaniac as everyone seems to think she is, why would she feel compelled to bring him back? She was next in line for the throne if Zuko wasn’t in the way, so she was much better off by double-crossing Zuko and keeping her privileged position if that’s what she cared about. But she didn’t. Why? Because that’s NOT what she cared about. She was actually helping Zuko, and she did it for no other reason than him being her brother. She helped him return, and he was worshipped and admired by the Fire Nation people even though Zuko wasn’t happy about being back… but let’s be honest, he had spent the entire series saying he wanted to go back, and when Azula brings him back he’s unhappy. Is that any fault of hers? No, it’s not. She did what she thought he wanted, and thus she paid him back for helping her out in Ba Sing Se.

Sure, she drops the weight of killing the Avatar on Zuko’s shoulders, a sly move to save her own butt. If Zuko was hiding something, he’d pay for that secret. Now, if he wasn’t, he would take all the credit for slaying Aang. Simple as that. A move of evil? No, it’s a move of intelligence if you ask me.

Afterwards, she tells Zuko not to visit Iroh in prison anymore. Zuko asks her what she wants, and Azula tells him she honestly wants nothing, that’s she’s looking out for him. And from what we saw in the rest of the story, she really didn’t want anything from him. It was advice, which Zuko didn’t take, yet advice all the same in an attempt to avoid trouble for her brother.

In The Beach Azula shows sides of herself we never knew existed. She shows something that goes beyond what it seems in the surface: Azula wants to know if she can be appreciated just for who she is and not for what she can do or her position in the world. She also shows for the first time on-screen that her mother is a looming shadow over her. But let’s look at that scene closely, shall we…? Azula brings Zuko down from the mansion and to the beach because the place was depressing, right? She tells him to come along, in hopes that he’ll stop moping once they’re away from those memories. Now, when the famous Ember Island exchange happens, everyone has a say upon everything. Mai gets to show her emotions for once before everyone, Ty Lee gets to complain about her sisters, Zuko gets to realize he’s angry at himself… and all this because they all stopped to look at each other’s problems and find what they all kept bottled up inside.

And what about Azula? Azula gets Zuko telling her, SPITEFULLY, that she surely has nothing to complain about because she’s so perfect… and Azula unexpectedly reveals that her mother thought she was a monster. The other three stare at her, say absolutely NOTHING (Zuko could have at least said “That’s not true, she thought you were a difficult child but you’re taking it too far”), and then Azula covers it up by saying the woman was right, but it still hurt. STILL HURT. And even with that? Nothing. The subject is changed again and that’s all Azula gets to say about her issues, while being the most troubled person in the group, no less.

Azula’s character is transformed after this episode, because it’s when those who hadn’t noticed yet realize that Azula, underneath that armor and that clever mind of hers, is just a teenage girl.

So next we look at Day of Black Sun, she’s tough enough to beat Aang, Sokka and Toph without her bending and she manages to manipulate Sokka just so that he’ll lose sight of their goal and waste their valuable time. As ever, a display of Azula’s brilliant mind.

But then in the Boiling Rock things start to look really awry for her for the first time. By then, Zuko is a full-blown traitor, who went to the side of the Fire Nation’s enemies on a whim, as any Fire Nation person would see it, and by doing so he threw away everything Azula had given him. If I were Azula, I’d be downright disappointed and angry that after all of what she did for her brother, he pays her back with this coin. Ozai obviously declared Zuko an enemy of the Fire Nation, so Azula, and anyone in the Fire Nation, really, is obliged to capture him upon finding him. So, I repeat, he’s a traitor; she gave him the chance to become the crown prince once more and he discarded it, and he ran off to fight against his nation.

Azula gets betrayed by her friends on the least expected moment. She never thought such a thing would happen, but indeed, handling them through fear was just going to come back to bite her eventually. My theory on Azula is that she insisted to herself that emotions were completely useless, and that to keep people close to her she had to do it through efficient means such as fear. Yet she couldn’t stop those emotions from taking over her, and the anger and sadness upon that betrayal struck her where it hurt most.

And she thinks Zuko is responsible for said betrayal. After all she did for him, he betrayed the Fire Nation and turned her friends against her. She goes all out on him after he got his enhanced firebending powers thanks to the dragons, and they’re evenly matched also because Azula’s emotional turmoil is already gaining on her. She threatens to kill Zuko here, yes… but when she’s falling down that cliff, and she saves herself at that last moment, doesn’t Zuko sound genuinely disappointed that she made it? So he was fine with saving Zhao when he did, but his own sister? The sister who did all she did for him, who tried to give him the life she thought he wanted… she deserves to die even though Zhao doesn’t? So yeah, Azula threatened Zuko’s life, and Zuko was just fine with allowing his sister to die. If this makes Azula evil, doesn’t it make Zuko evil as well? Ah… curious, isn’t it?

Azula’s downfall only gets worse when the one person she was sure would always rely on her decides to discard her as if she were a broken toy. Ozai waves her off and tells her he’s going to take over the Earth Kingdom alone. Azula snaps and she tells him she deserves to be by his side, that he can’t treat her like Zuko. Azula is genuinely scared of becoming the same thing Zuko was to her father, and she hardly even gets why he would treat her this way. Granted she has failed him a few times, but she’s certain she can succeed if given another chance. But Ozai will not give her that chance. She gets the throne, almost a hand-down and nearly meaningless now that there’s the Phoenix King, but she seems to accept that. Still, she’s horrified that her father would throw her away as he did. It’s the last thing she thought would happen, and it’s the last straw that throws her world into disarray.

She starts to question everything, to lose what little faith she had placed in those around her. Because they’re not even around anymore. She’s alone now, and nobody is willing to stay by her side even those who can see she’s falling apart. Her decisions don’t even make sense, she banishes people just for the sake of it and in the end she’s all alone. Ursa’s hallucination, in my honest opinion, was just proof that Azula was trying to find something to hold on to, anything. When everything falls apart, you run to the arms of someone you know will be there… but in her case, there’s no one there. Ursa has left, her mother, the one who should have been the greatest source of love and care, who should have held her as she cried and told her that everything was going to be better soon… so Azula has nobody to turn to.

Azula fears that, even if Ursa was around, she wouldn’t even bother doing what any other mother would do for her child, because Ursa thinks she’s a monster. So Azula is alone, with nothing but a hallucination to keep her company and to continue breaking her down until she can’t take it anymore. The hallucination says what Azula thinks Ursa would say, as someone pointed out, but Azula still won’t believe it. Azula can’t believe it, not after Ursa was gone for all this time, not after she thought her daughter to be a monster. And what I think finishes breaking her, along with the mirror, is realizing that she wasn’t seeing anyone for real, that it wasn’t Ursa, that she was really, truly, alone.

By the time the Last Agni Kai happens, she’s already in such a state of mind she can’t think things through as she used to. As I’ve thought many times before, Azula could have pulled another one on Zuko as she did in the Earth Kingdom, when he challenged her to an Agni Kai and she declined. Just think about it… she could have raised an eyebrow, told the Sage to carry on and BAM! Azula is Fire Lord and Zuko can’t do anything about it anymore. TA DAAAAH!

But no, I don’t know if it’s Azula’s sense of doing things the proper way, given that Zuko was the older child… or if it was just her clouded mind, but she accepts the challenge. And Zuko, our caring, brilliant brother Zuko, sees his sister is falling apart and he thinks “This my chance to beat her!” So really, I HAVE to ask… what standard of heroicity is Zuko being measured with? How can a “hero” see his younger sibling in this state of mind and just think that it’s the perfect situation for him to make profit out of?

Nevertheless, this was supposed to be an Azula meta, not a Zuko one. So Azula fights Zuko, and her moves are pretty awesome but he’s besting her because of her troubled mind. Azula then throws lightning at Katara (honestly, someone explain to me why on earth was Katara standing there to watch two enhanced firebenders burn down half the city with their power. She wasn’t even on the sidelines, she was in the fighting area!) and Zuko saves her by sacrificing himself. Azula could have just bowed down and said “And that’s how it’s done. That’s that, Zuzu, now I’m the new Fire Lord!”, but her state of mind got the best of her and she decided to bring Katara down too, which brought her down in turn.

So we see Azula crying desperately at the finale, chained to the ground and unable to do anything but breathe fire and scream. At this point, Azula has lost EVERYTHING. And all her big brother does is stare and then toss her into a mental institution because he plainly has no time to deal with her.

So now, after all I’ve just pointed out… is Azula EVIL? Is Azula INSANE? Azula was born in the wrong side of the war, perhaps, but this doesn’t mean her heart is corrupted and that she’s a heartless psycopath. Because if that breakdown shows anything, it’s that she’s anything but heartless. A psycopath, by definition, is someone who feels nothing, who can feign feelings and imitate what others feel, but he actually isn’t in the capacity to love, to hate, to be sad, to feel any emotion whatsoever. Azula’s breakdown is characterized by emotions, emotions we had no idea she could feel or even feel so strongly. Ah, but her feelings are what makes her crazy in the eyes of the writers and the fandom, right? That’s why she’s Crazula, ins’t it? That’s why they make fun of her and misunderstand her character completely, because apparently a villain with feelings becomes a nutjob.

News of the day? A villain with feelings is not a nutjob. A villain with feelings can be (and usually is) the most amazing character of a story! Villains who feel nothing, those aren’t anything new. But a villain like Azula, who undergoes all those trials and breaks down precisely because she’s human, because she can’t remain cold and aloof when her family and friends turn their back on her… that, my friends, is a GREAT character.

So yes, Yang is right. Azula is great. But did he ever stop to look pausedly at her every move, at all her actions, to realize what they truly meant? Given the way he characterized her, my answer is NO.

Keeping Azula’s controlling and crazy side in the story? No, Yang. That’s NOT the way it’s done. When you write about a character, you write about THE CHARACTER in itself! You don’t think about how to combine two sides of her, that makes no sense whatsoever! A character is comprised by traits, by what sets said character apart from the others, and in Azula’s case it’s NOT her controlling or her crazy side, but it’s everything I’ve described above! It’s as if I were to take Aang to be the pet-guy who likes to laze around and play with butterflies. Aang is SO MUCH MORE than that, and so is Azula. So starting off from there, Yang, well, congratulations, you just proved your incompetence as a writer once more by showing us that you DO NOT understand Azula’s character in the slightest.

Split personality, for crying out loud… where was the need to give Azula a split personality, mind you? What Yang did here was for the sole purpose of reinventing Azula’s character in a way that he could handle her because he had absolutely no idea how to handle the character she became by the finale. Azula’s complexities are such that trying to settle things just by giving her a split personality shows that he was actually not trying to settle anything at all. Azula didn’t need any split personality, adding this factor to her character was only a way to say that she’s so broken that Yang wasn’t going to waste a minute of his time trying to fix her. He damamged her situation her even more than necessary just to make the readers say “Oh, she’s really messed up, I feel so bad that the Gaang has to put up with her…” and so that nobody would be surprised to discover that she couldn’t get any closure here and that she’d run off and get lost in a forest without any resolution of any kind.

Well, guess what? I’m not surprised, I’m DISSAPOINTED.

“We also wanted to figure out what it means to care for somebody like that, somebody who vacillates between evil and insane. That’s what Zuko has to do. I think a lot of us can relate to that.”

Okay… okay… this sounded really good in an interview, it made us think that Zuko would prove to be supportive of Azula, that he’d try to help her out…

But he doesn’t say or prove that he wants to help her out IN ANY WAY until she’s already running off into a forest. Placing a blanket over her is, as I’ve already said, as meaningless as Ursa kissing Azula’s cheek while she was asleep. IS IT TOO MUCH TO ASK OF THEM TO SHOW KINDNESS TO AZULA WHILE SHE’S CONSCIOUS?! Why, it seems like it is! Do you think this is the way to HELP someone with a mental illness? When someone tries to support someone with a mental illness, the first thing he/she has to do is show he’s there to help! That he’s not going anywhere, that he’ll stand by the sick person and that he’ll do his best to help that person heal no matter the cost. That much is already going to help wonders. But how does Zuko show Azula he wants to help her?

By saying she’s an uncomfortable conclusion.

By dangling her on the edge of a cliff.

By telling his friends to TAKE HER DOWN.

Tell me, is it ANY wonder Azula ran off? Is it? Why on earth should she believe Zuko wants to help her just because he says so now?! Actions speak WAY louder than words, and all his actions so far have showed that his caring for Azula isn’t what Yang seems to think it is. I don’t know if he has any idea of what he wrote, but The Search has NOTHING to do with Zuko helping Azula. Zuko went off to find Ursa to make some sense out of his own life, and not until Azula was already running did he suddenly think that maybe she needed help and he that perhaps he could give it to her…

So what do I say about Yang’s interview? That it would be just wonderful if he had actually written a story about the real Azula, not a split-personality copy of her that didn’t have a shred of the depth her character had in canon, and that it would have been a great comic if Zuko had actually figured out what it meant to care for Azula and tried to help her out, WHILE IGNORING THAT NOTION OF EVIL AND INSANE.

Because the minute he labels Azula as evil, he deems her to end up on the losing side even though this wasn’t even meant to be a battle. Because just as Zuko’s lightning hurts no one because this is a children’s comic, well, it’s a children’s comic so evil HAS to lose. Azula was condemned to get the worst part of this story from the minute this man gave this interview, and sadly I only came to notice that now.

If you made it down this huge post, you’re welcome to say what you will about me exaggerating matters and taking everything too far, I don’t care because I’m not going to change my mind about what I just said. Azula is far more interesting than what Yang made her out as, and given that his notion of her is that of an “insane and evil” character, I’d rather they don’t give him another chance to write about Azula. If that’s all he understands about her character, it’s downright clear he’s not going to deliver a good story about her, he didn’t do it in The Search and I don’t believe he’s going to be capable of doing it afterwards either.

(now, I appreciate y’all being so eager to get me to write these huge response posts, but please… @___@ can we just leave it as that? Can you accept that I’m not going to change my mind about Yang’s writing and characterization no matter what you say about him? If my opinion is this prized, why, I feel very fortunate… but man, even I can grow tired of typing such huge posts once in a while…)

[bellwethers]

Oh. Poor child

[ilikepjo24]

Lol another dumb take on reddit

https://www.reddit.com/r/CharacterRant/s/ER8SmBToSm

WOW! There are so many things to unpack here...

"Iroh, the most-" Iroh!? IROH!? THE Iroh!? The "redeemed" warlord that only gave a fuck about being a warlord after it affected him personally? That Iroh? The Iroh that left a child to bare the weight of a nation just bc he, the mature responsible adult, wanted to sit on his ass instead of being mature and responsible? THAT Iroh? It seems awful like both those actions appear to be those of a selfish and unempathetic person. And let's not forget that even after his "redemption" he assaulted June. So how exactly is he the most understanding and kind person in the show, exactly?

Would you like to know who actually is the most understanding and kind person in the show? AANG.

The boy who found it in himself to forgive and learn to have affection for the dude that chased him around the world and almost hurt/killed him and his friends multiple times. The boy who found it in himself to forgive the nation that genocided his people enough to want to help them, teach them their old ways and bring them back to the light. The boy that found it in himself to spare Ozai, a sadistic, manipulative, abusive warlord that wanted to watch the world burn in an attempt to satisfy his narcissism. And may the record note that Iroh did not extended his own brother the same mercy. He believed Ozai needed to die, when Aang didn't. So Aang is more empathetic, understanding and kind that Iroh.

And do you know what Aang has to say about Azula?

That he believes in her ability to do good and be good. That he trusts her to do so. He could have had her executed. He didn't. He could have taken away her bending. He didn't. He could have said she's born evil and a bad egg. He didn't. He put in a good word for her. He said she did something good. That can be good. THAT'S what the actual most understanding and kind person in the whole franchise has to say about Azula.

"She smiles when-" So did everyone else and so does everyone ever alive when justice is served. Because for the audience, the event was unfair and traumatizing. But for the people of the Fire Nation it was justice. And it's only normal for people to be happy when justice is served. When a groomer goes to jail you don't think "oh, that poor groomer", you think "good, this piece of shit definitely deserved it". Similarly, in the Fire Nation, an imperialistic dictatorship, when someone disrespects their Firelord, which they worship as almost a god (if not more, bc we see them worship their Firelord more often than Agni), and that person gets punished they don't think "oh, that like boy", they think "good, this piece of shit definitely deserved it". That's not called "being a bad egg", that's called propaganda and borderline mass brainwashing.

"She mocks-" She's repeating what she heard from adults in her life. That's not being a bad egg, that's bad parenting.

"She tortures-" Not cannon in any way. We've heard that she threw bread at them. Not only was that told from Zuko's pov, who's known to be a biased narrator when it comes to Azula, but it's also not even that freaking bad. It's bread, when it hits the water it becomes soft. No one ever died because they got hit by a loaf of bread. And she doesn't burn them with.

"Her mother's comments-" Oh, you mean the "what is wrong with that child"? That comment? That comment that was thrown at a child after doing a very normal childlike thing? I used to to play execution with my Barbie dolls and beheading them by pulling off their heads and my least favourites would always be the ones that got executed. Kids break toys they don't value and/or like. Azula is not obligated to like or value a gift that wasn't for her. The doll was a gift for every little girl. It wasn't personal. It wasn't hers. She doesn't have to like or value it. She doesn't have to not break it. The only reason that she chose fire instead of execution is because she had fire handy. That comment Ursa made was absolutely not justified.

"She's never given an excuse-" Not only is this take proof that media literacy is dead, it's flat out anti-intellectualism. We see that Fire Nation schools brainwash kids by shoving propaganda in their faces and we know Azula went in a Fire Nation school. All that's left to do is put 2 and 2 together. It's 4. It's fucking 4. Azula was brainwashed in the Fire Nation school that she went to that brainwashes Fire Nation kids. Canon fact. Use your brain.

"Her vision of what she wants is twisted-" What, exactly, is twisted about wanting to be acknowledged by your family that is proud of you, being loved by your family that is supposed to love you anyway, and completing the mission you've been brainwashed into thinking is the right thing all your life? What is twisted about reaching expectations and having a happy family? I'll wait.

"We're supposed to sympathize with the spi- No, we're not. The spirit is very obviously a liar and a manipulator as we've seen throughout the whole damn comic. And it wants to eat her. The spirit is the villain of the story that has been continuously twisting reality to weaken Azula's ambition and will to fight back, so that it could kill her. By the end of the comic we're supposed to know that the spirit is a full of shit and we shouldn't trust what it says, since all it has said throughout the whole comic is lies. Not sympathize with it.

"Rationalizations of her behavior are believe yet unprovable and based on subtext." It's almost like she's not the main character. The show isn't going to take time diving into her background. They are going to only give us subtext and we have to use our critical thinking skills and come to a believable conclusion, as we do. Zuko loving Ursa isn't outright stated at the show at any point, but we know it's a fact because we see it in the way they interact. We know his mother matters to him because he thinks of her and misses her. That's subtext. And we know Azula is not to blame for the person she was bought up to be because Fire Nation schools canonically brainwash their students. That's subtext. You can't selectively decide that this subtext is enough to prove this point, but that subtext doesn't prove that point because it's not outright stated. That's called double standards.

"The show portrays her as being inherently evi-" The show? You mean the same show that didn't even portray the genocider, treacherous dictator (Sozin) and the abusive, manipulative dictator (Ozai) as inherently evil went out of its way to portray the manipulated, abused, brainwashed child as a bad egg? ...Sure. That's what happened.

"Mai and Ty Lee do the same stuff but are portrayed differ-" No, they are not. Mai is portrayed as somebody who abused the power they have over others, since she views ordering servants around as a fun activity, and as somebody who has no empathy towards their family, as she didn't hesitate to agree that her brother has less worth than a king. Ty Lee is portrayed as sadistic, since she's animated to smirk and sneer while taking down soldiers defending their homes. I think she even goes as far as to mock them at sons point, but take that with a pinch of salt. They are portrayed to be classist, sadistic, unempathetic people that only give a fuck about the select few and mystery everybody else. Y'all just refuse to see it because Ty Lee is cute and is constantly infantilized because of it and because Mai protected your lord and savior, Zuko, right after she was done being classist and unempathetic. They are not portrayed as better, you just go out of your way to portray Azula as worst.

"Even in LoK-" Azula is given Freudian Excuse. You just refuse to see it because, as opposed to Legend of Korra, the creators do not chew your food up and spit it in your mouth for you to swallow. You have to put the pieces of the puzzle together and make realization. Which can understandably be hard for people that have a brain the size of a peanut, like yourself.

"It feels weird for a show like Avatar to imply somebody was evil from birt-" It feels weird because it is weird and it is weird because it's something they would never do which is why they didn't do it. You literally just created this narrative inside of your head while understanding that it goes completely against the philosophy of the show. And now it's weird to you that it doesn't align with the show? Make it make sense.

This isn't asking for an Azula redemption arc (although "this fourteen-year-old who was acting under orders of a tyrannical fire lord can't be redeemed" seems incredibly harsh), this is just me wondering why the writers consistently, across mediums, refuse to suggest that she's even the slightest bit a product of her environment? But Zuko gets a pass for pretty much everything more or less? Alright then lol.

This is close to being the smartest thing you have said during this post. Unfortunately it is easy to notice that some of the creators just don't like Azula. That's it. That's the reason why. They don't like her and they don't want her to have a happy ending. So it's good that somebody else is riding this show now. Faith Erin Hicks, as we see from her comic, is not afraid to treat Azula as the victim she is, and is not afraid to lay the blame on the adults that failed her. As opposed to previous creators, she seems to be willing to apply the general philosophy of the show in Azula's character as well. Which is something she's able to do because Azula is not, in fact, inherently evil. She's a victim of abuse and a manipulated child that has done some very fucked up things but has all her life ahead of her to grow up and be better.

Give us a scene of Ozai molding her into the cruel person she is

Supporting and praising bad behavior is enabling it. A good parent would say "I understand that you were upset at feeling as though you were underestimated when you got efficient results, but it's important to keep your cool and respect your instructors since they have more experience than you. If you feel as though the inability of this instructor to stray from traditional paterns is holding you back, communicate that problem with me, and I'll find you a new teacher if it's necessary." Does Ozai do that? No. What does he do? Praise her. What will Azula do in response? Repeat the same behavior to receive praise again. What is that called? Nursing cruel/bad behavior.

Give us a scene of Azula being at least a normal child at some point.

Stealing sweets at a sleepover and recreating scenes from a movie/play with your sibling? I recall doing both those things as a child. We're talking about universal normal child experiences.

Don't vindicate her mother being cruel.

The narrative itself is not excusing Ursa. Azula herself goes to lengths to hold her accountable, actually. The only ones excusing Ursa's actions are Zuko, who's looking at her through rose colored glasses, because she's one of the first people to show him love, and he wants to sing the best of her, and the fandom, for the same exact reason.

Have Iroh say something slightly more insightful than "she's a crazy bitch leave her alone"

Personally, I don't value Iroh's opinion at all. I think he has to work through the issues that he obviously has with himself, instead of projecting those issues onto Azula, which is what he's doing. But since you care about his opinion so much, here's him saying Azula has the capability to find peace.

Here's an easy one: instead of smiling when Zuko got burnt, Azula looks visually horrified. That tiny, tiny change would've made her far more nuanced! It wouldn't be much, but not only would it make the fire lord's actions seem even worse, it shows us that deep down, she does--or at least, did--care! This is more in line with the show's themes and far more interesting than "she's just gonna be super evil hehe".

Here's the thing. Azula doesn't smile because she's just so "evil hehe". She's smiling because Zuko is receiving a just punishment for his actions. At least as far as she's concerned.

Think about it, in the Fire Nation they treat their King as a god. They pray/say an anthem/swear loyalty to the Firelord and the crown every single day. It should be needless to point out that nobody would question the actions of the Firelord. They would just assume that this is the correct course of action because this is what the Firelord is doing.

Azula not only is a subject of that Firelord but she is the daughter of her father. She was 11 when the Agni Kai. At that age, kids do not question their parents. The think things are right because the parents do it. If Dad is upset with Zuko, then Zuko must have done something wrong, because Dad can't be wrong, he's Dad, he's never wrong.

So both as his daughter and as his subject, Azula has been conditioned from the day she was born to think that he's always right. So when he decides to punish Zuko, that's just another instance where he's right. So why would Azula be upset with him for being right? Especially considering that if she were upset with him, it's possible that you would also receive a punishment for disagreeing with his methods.

So imagine you are Azula. You see your dad, who is always right, and is also your king, who is also always right do something. Anything. Do you think to yourself "Why would he do that? That's bad!" or do you think "He's right for doing what he does because he's always right."? She's under the impression that he's a just ruler and father, so why wouldn't she be satisfied at the sight of him rendering justice to the foolish subject that disobeyed? Especially when having a different opinion can result to being in danger?

Do we get anything from the answer to her personality being "bad egg"?

No, we don't. Which is why this isn't what they did. You just have a false idea of pretty much everything regarding Azula's character and how it was handled.

Thus proven.

[kideaternomnom]

Azula antis: She’s pure evil.

Me: ...Well, Zuko changed so why can’t she get a chance?

Antis: Uh- she was born evil! She had no empathy!

Me: My guy, she was raised by literal Ozai and was neglected by her mom along with Iroh. Zuko could’ve been the same and so could’ve ANYONE. That was the whole point of that one episode showing Roku’s backstory. She’s also still only 14 in the finale and 16 in the comics.

Antis: Erm- uh...She rejected redemption! Yeah- she’s pure evil for that!

Me: Zuko rejected redemption in season 2. But he still changed.

Antis:

[sh3nlong-promakh0s]

'war crimes' like... everyone else engaged in warfare in the series... also this was a pre-modern (with the exception of the recently industrialised fire nation) setting so even if you had like an analogous version of the geneva convention in atla, it wouldn't have existed until like centuries later smh, they were still in the era of romantic conventional warfare

idk how people can hate azula because like...

look at her??? she's innocent, she can do no wrong.

literally take a look at her?? she's so silly bro. 'she committed war crimes' what war crimes??? LOOK AT HERRRR

[not-aurii]

Rewatching ATLA and I think that one scene when Azula shows up to blow them off the Air Temple they were staying at (forgot which one, sorry), is already a tell that she's losing her mind a bit.

Because, this is right after Mai and Ty Lee betray her. And in The Day of Black Sun episode, when asked if she wanted to follow the gaang, all she says is:

"There's no point. They'll be back soon." And she was right, they would be back soon.

So why did she suddenly decide to get an entire squad of airships, just to blow up her brother and the Avatar?

Even when Zuko asks her, she doesn't give him a proper answer, just saying she's "celebrating becoming an only child".

I think this was her way of trying to feel better about herself with a win. Any win would do.

Because this attack is so weird for Azula, out of character even. An entire fleet of warships? Not just a small group to be inconspicuous? Of course, Mai and Ty Lee are no longer an option, but... why not just take the Dai Li?

Why the need for this sudden show of force, when just her presence alone is more than enough to make anyone cower in fear? Why does she feel the need to remind them that she is That powerful?

Because she's already suffering the consequences of Mai and Ty Lee's betrayal. Because she's already starting to doubt just how much power she actually has over people. Because she's already losing sight of herself, little by little.

This is also why I love the way Azula and Zuko's fight ends:

They're both falling from the sky, seemingly to their deaths with no way out, but the gaang grabs Zuko at the last minute, making sure he's safe. His connection to people, his choices to help and redeem himself, were what saved him in the end.

Azula is all alone.

She saves herself, but barely so. Even Zuko has a split second of "she might actually die" and then goes "Of course she didn't". Like it's expected. Like it's a law of the universe that Azula would be all alone and able to save herself, and that's nothing grand or anything else. It's just how it is. Azula has always been by herself, always been alone, always keeping herself safe the only way she knew how: fear.

And then that fails her too. So what is she supposed to do now?

She's falling. No one is going to grab her, keep her safe. And the only way she knew how to do that by herself, for herself, is gone.

Fear wasn't enough.

But what else is there for her to grab on to?

[sirenalpha]

I'm not gonna get into it on the actual post because I don't want to start shit after how Aang posts have gone down and it's not like I saw it cuz it was tagged wrong or something

but it is wild to see someone say Azula's downfall was well written in atla and then also say what Zuko should have done and implying he was morally obligated to do so was not fight her and instead offer her love and support so he's in the wrong for accepting the agni kai challenge and fighting her

this blatantly ignores that Azula has manipulated and abused Zuko since childhood even though they also admit that Azula tried to kill him twice recently as a defense of Zuko's actions which is definitely some cognitive dissonance, but it's another instance I've seen of someone acting as if Zuko is incorrect or blinded by his father or otherwise mistaken when he says things like 'Azula always lies' despite the show demonstrating that actually Zuko is seeing her extremely clearly as she can even successfully manipulate him using the truth

Zuko does not owe Azula love and support just because they are blood relatives anymore than he owes Ozai especially not any time before the war has ended and she is still a threat to his personal safety and also to his goal of achieving peace seeing as she tried to kill Zuko twice leading up to the finale and she also came up with the plan to raze the Earth Kingdom

Giving her a hug isn't gonna fix that situation exactly the same as it wouldn't with Aang when it comes to Ozai

except this person thought Aang v Ozai was ultimately a triumph of pacifism over imperialism whereas the love and support vs fear and isolation of Zuko vs Azula is only pure tragedy not a victory of one ideology over another and I really have to wonder how this person came to that conclusion

Aang v Ozai is also a man to man battle same as Zuko v Azula and Katara v Azula which is not exactly pacifism

Aang doesn't kill Ozai in the end, and neither does Zuko or Katara kill Azula (instead she nearly kills Zuko) so again no different on the pacifism front

The major differences between these battles are that Zuko and Katara earned their abilities to defeat Azula whereas Aang relies on two deus ex machina and Zuko and Katara leave Azula upset but a pretty physically healthy state whereas Aang spiritually mutilates Ozai by removing his bending

in order for this interpretation to work that Aang v Ozai is a triumph of one ideology over another and Zuko v Azula is not, you have to ignore the massive narrative flaws in the Aang and Ozai fight that do not exist in the Zuko v Azula fight

There is a reason people still argue about whether or not Aang should have killed Ozai but even this person who argues Zuko did the wrong thing by Azula doesn't actually disagree with the text of the show, they still seem to want this agni kai to have happened exactly as it did where Zuko did show that love and support worked better than fear and isolation as he had Katara to tag in to finish the fight as well as other concepts like continuing to improve and learn after failure which eventually gave Zuko stability working better than genius perfectionism which caused Azula to spiral

another major facet this person relied on to argue for this position that Zuko was wrong to accept the agni kai was that Zuko could not see beyond the narrow worldview his father imposed on him through the golden child/scape goat dynamic he put upon Azula and Zuko

but the whole point of the show and having Zuko confront his father and leave to join the Avatar was to show exactly that, Zuko is the one character whose horizons broaden the most over the course of the show and only because Iroh's happens pre-series, it is insane to argue that Zuko cannot see past the abuse he suffered or outside the Fire Nation worldview after he has left the Fire Nation for the gaang

This person also claims that Zuko is so single minded about his goals that he even forgets empathy for others despite in season one somehow managing not to burn off Zhao's face in an agni kai and he even tries to rescue him from the ocean spirit despite fighting him literally the moment before so what character are you talking about because it's not Zuko

and then from this, they claim he cannot understand the tragedy of having to fight his own sister

this part is obviously up to more reader interpretation but you can take Zuko suggesting to Iroh in s2 that he forgive Azula is actually stemming from his genuine desire to not have to fight Azula given how quickly and vehemently Iroh shoots this down and that he does express genuine concern for Azula's fall in the southern raiders before she gets herself to the cliffside

I personally would say between the two of them, Zuko is more aware of the tragedy and genuinely sad about it, he is not portrayed as happy or gleeful when it's over whereas Azula has only been expecting this fight so she can secure her position on the thrown because she's second born and female and outright gloats after she's shot him with lightning

I see Zuko as resigned to this fight and trying to keep Katara safely out of it when he notices that Azula is slipping and takes the agni kai

what is not reader interpretation is to claim Zuko is being unfair and cruel to Azula to accept her agni kai challenge, Azula has always been the aggressor in their relationship and Zuko always the loser until the southern raiders where they have drawn even with each other, and as it has already been pointed out, Azula has recently tried to kill him twice!!

where is Azula's moral obligation to not try to mortally wound or manipulate her older brother? how is she not cruel and unfair for treating him this way and following in the footsteps of their father?

then there's an insane bit where they claim Zuko and Katara have a more simplistic view of morality than Aang who lost his shit on Katara in southern raiders who in the end didn't forgive Yon Rha and also didn't kill him and Zuko was there supporting her for the whole thing for her emotional benefit and closure regarding her mother like he had in his confrontation against Ozai whom he also didn't kill and Aang wasn't involved, Katara even tells him he was wrong

this part is just objectively untrue, Aang has the far more simplistic view on morality 

this person also goes on to a lot of reader interpretation for Azula's motives for bringing Zuko back to the Fire Nation, and I do agree I think that on some level Azula does care for Zuko, where I don't agree is that if the result is still harm for Zuko which is what returning to the Fire Nation was for him as it puts him back under the thumb of their abuser, it's still ultiamtely not good or kind to Zuko

Azula's actions are not made better by presuming she had good intentions born out of care for Zuko

The thing that really got me though was this quote:

"he allows himself to stoop to her level, and in fact only redeems himself through his sacrifice for katara"

again, Azula is the aggressor in their relationship and the one who issues the challenge in this instance

Zuko does not stoop to her level trying to stop her via agni kai because a hug is not gonna work, and it is arguably noble of him to try to protect Katara by accepting the challenge and trying to remove her as a target

But it doesn't work because Azula breaks the agni kai by attacking Katara who is a bystander and not a combatant which is never a level Zuko stoops to, it's a rat move Azula takes when she's put on her back foot and realizes she can't win a fair fight and can't goad Zuko into an emotional outburst

But the worst part is reframing Zuko's sacrifice as redemptive in terms of his relationship to Azula or as if he has done something wrong in accepting the agni kai or while fighting it

He hasn't, the poster argues that Zuko betrayed Azula in leaving the Fire Nation which I think you can argue for, but I do not believe that the show has Azula react as if she has been harmed by this action when she is shown as far more offended by Mai and Ty Lee's betrayal and again seems gleeful to be able to attack Zuko in the boiling rock, southern raiders, and finale and therefore could reasonably be interpreted to have expected this

His redemption isn't towards Azula or anything she represents like Fire Nation imperialism, Ozai's abuse, perfectionism 

It's a heroic sacrifice for Katara as a person he harmed personally in the s2 finale and as a victim of the Fire Nation's war by the Fire Nation's prince 

It's an utter and blatant misread of the show to demonize Zuko to uplift Azula and replace Katara as a victim of Fire Nation imperialism which Azula is straightforwardly not and removes those themes from the Zuko v Azula fight which this person praised in the more flawed Aang v Ozai fight

I am with and agree with anyone claiming Azula is a victim of abuse, she is, it is the direct cause of her breakdown

but it's straight up cognitive dissonance to act as if Zuko has done something grossly wrong in terms of ending the cycle of violence by participating in the agni kai with Azula but Aang v Ozai is a narrative master stroke for pacifism and ending violence when they both use the exact same amount of violence to achieve their ends: man to man combat, and Aang actually delivers the worse punishment to Ozai

and you strip away half of Azula's character if you ignore the real and blatant harm she caused Zuko and the rest of the gaang and try to pretend they are all equally victims of the same man because they are not

[slyvester101]

I think we’re all sleeping on the fact that Carolina had an Azula breakdown arc.

Carolina strived to be perfect, to be the best, the strongest, the fastest, the smartest, to be number one. Her dad directly approved of it and made her competitiveness towards success worse as time went on.

Carolina lost all her friends because of it, got backstabbed in her eyes by York because he wanted to do the right thing. Got dropped off a cliff because of she wanted to be right, she wanted to win.

Her ego was her downfall and everyone went down with her.

Imagine Carolina dropping on Wash and the sim troopers and her hair is choppy and greasy, she has eye bags practically sewn permanently onto her face, her plans are frantic, manic, messy, nothing like the ones she made during the early days of Freelancer.

She’s nothing like she was during Freelancer.

Imagine Washington looking at Carolina and knowing just from the crazed glint in her eyes that he could genuinely, maybe even easily, beat Carolina in a fight.

He’d realize with horror and dread that he was no longer the worst fighter of his squad.

[sh3nlong-promakh0s]

YEP OP GETS ITTTTTTTTTTT

if anyone would have bothered caring for or parenting azula she would've turned on ozai Quick. the series would've been ten episodes long.

oh now that’s actually a really interesting thought experiment 

i don’t agree and here’s why 

(cw abuse, cw child abuse) 

zuko had ursa’s love. he grew up being cared for, learning compassion, and having a positive role model. iroh obviously cared for him a great deal, as he decided to go with zuko on this very rough journey with little of the comforts he was used to, for an indeterminate amount of time, so even if you think iroh changed a lot before the show started, he was some sort of positive model in zuko’s life from childhood. and in the three years before the show, zuko had iroh to care for him and try to help him and lead him down the right path 

zuko is still the season 1 antagonist, despite these things

zuko doesn’t change until his circumstances drastically change. he needs so much distance from his father, he needs to see the rest of the world’s perspective with clear eyes, he becomes a refugee, he connects with people, he learns honest work, and this changes him. and yet, even despite all that, even despite iroh’s care and teachings added into all those experiences, zuko betrays iroh to help azula and get back to his father 

this is the thing about abuse. it messes with your head. i’ve heard some psychologists say their definition of an abusive situation is the inability to recognize patterns, and in my experience that’s been very accurate. it’s almost impossible to see how bad something is when you’re in it, even if you have other positive forces in your life. the very corrupt and twisted thing about abuse is that, in a very perverse way, it’s addictive. it lies to you and tells you that not only is this negative behavior justified, but that you need it and would be worse if it wasn’t in your life. losing an abusive relationship, whether it’s on your terms or not, is incredibly terrifying. it’s a very awful situation to be in, and it’s why a lot of people develop ptsd so far afterwards, because their brain really doesn’t see abuse as “bad” until they’re far away and can get perspective 

we know azula has been abused her whole life, just for the simple fact that she was raised by ozai. but azula is in the very particular situation of “raised by a violent abusive narcissist who considered her the good one”. azula was in a very bad situation and it affected her behavior in major ways. she also, as we saw, was more safe from the obvious repercussions than zuko was. was that safety an illusion? absolutely. ozai would have turned on her in a heartbeat had she stepped out of line. but she believed she was safe, and she believed, in whatever warped and twisted way, that she was loved 

and i don’t think that can be discounted. like i said, abuse is addictive. not in any sort of “good” way, but in the very basic definition of addictive as in “your brain has a dependency on this and you will suffer negative consequences if it goes away”. like many addictions, it’s hurting you more in the long run. that’s something both azula and zuko had to learn. they wanted that relationship, terrible as it was, more than anything. but it was poisonous to their behavior and mental health 

so i dont necessarily agree that, if someone had shown kindness and care and nurturing to azula, she would’ve behaved much different. being in an abusive situation where youre favored and praised and “valued” is like. the ultimate noxious high. don’t get me wrong, it also feels very gross and awful. but your brain really does block those feelings out and makes you feel like you could actually die without it. can you imagine being in that situation as a young girl? i’m sure some of you reading this can. i was. and we know azula, up until the point when ozai leaves on the day of the comet, really thought she was in a good position. it was an incredibly fragile and complicated mental state. but she really did believe her situation was the best one she could be in. for how bad it was, for how bad she witnessed it being for zuko, she really honestly couldn’t see it. she’s incredibly smart and perceptive, and she couldn’t see it 

so yeah. to your original point, i really dont think that would have done much. azula needed love and care, absolutely. but i dont think that would have been enough. she needed love and care to show her how a relationship is supposed to be, she needed positive role models to model her own behavior, she needed space from ozai where she wasn’t under his thumb and following his orders to please him, she needed to get an outside perspective on the war and the behavior of the fire nation and therefore ozai (her main ‘interaction’ with non fire nation people is the dai lee ... which ... they sort of immediately cave and follow her), and she needed to see ozai’s “love” was false and conditional. you know who DOES get all those things? ZUKO! and guess what zuko got! A REDEMPTION ARC! you know how many of those things azula got? OH THAT’S RIGHT NONE OF THEM. AND YOU KNOW WHAT AZULA DIDN’T GET? A “REDEMPTION” ARC 

this is what i’m salty about in the show, and why my perspective on azula has changed so much over the years as i’ve gained knowledge and experience. i totally understand that they didn’t know how many seasons they were getting. but the fact is that azula is only halfway through her arc when the show ends, and she doesn’t get any sort of closure. this paints her in such a bad light compared to the rest of the characters. and THAT’S why i subject yall to 742 azula metas a day 

tl;dr: someone showing compassion and care to azula wouldn’t have been enough to “save” her or have her turn on ozai because unfortunately that’s just not how abuse works. she would have needed a lot of things - all the things zuko got - in order for her behavior to be different 

this has been my ted talk thank you for coming 

[velvet-vox]

V and Doll; trauma, mental disorder, and low empathy.

(Warning: this post is slightly outdated and contains some incorrect medical terms that don't correspond to the modern classification of ASPD. You can still read it if you are curious, but don't take anything stated here as hard facts. They are not.)

Very recently on my notifications I received a reblog by @aroaceweirdos101 to a response I've made to a post talking about how Doll went through so much more pain than V, and it made me realise that the response in question was actually, like, really good.

I had genuinely forgotten and underestimated how good of an analysis of both V, Doll, mental health and societal stigma it really was.

Now, of course, I disagree with the sentiment that Doll suffered more than V and fully believe that out of the two V endured way more pain and trauma than Doll; yet, although the responses in the comments checked out with what I previously said, they felt... meaner?

Like, the answers went to the opposite extreme of the original comment and tried to downplay Doll's trauma in comparison to V's, almost implying that Doll was a b##ch (which she was) for snapping as hard as she did when V still managed to retain a sense of restraint; and I disagreed with that, so in response I wrote this:

*Look, I believe both Doll and V are interesting characters, and although I feel more sympathetic towards Doll, I definitely believe V went through so much more pain than Doll and had way more reasons to snap and be the way she is now, but I just really hate people who use that as an excuse to label Doll has the more evil of the two or "she was always just a psycho, she just needed an excuse to snap"; it's especially disheartening when people straight up interpret her as unreademable or pure evil, when V and N's body count is 10 times higher than Doll's.

Also, I'm sorry but I really can't stomach the possibility of Liam redeeming the genocidal war machine and not the broken orphan created by said psycho, it literally would be the fictional pinnacle of "since these are the protagonists, they can get away with as much as they want and are always in the right"; I'm fine with the way Doll died because it was done by Cyn and there wasn't any moral lesson to be gained from our protagonists about it, but if it was done by N, Uzi, or worst of all V again, it should have played out like "we have reasons to do the things we do, and you have yours, unfortunately we're on opposite sides and you are hurting us so we must kill you now".

The human (worker drone) mind is extremely fragile, and some people, due to a probably inherited and undiagnosed mental illness or a particular personality type, are more at risk of snapping then other people, yet instead of being understanding towards those who are born with more issues than others (especially women, look up Azula or Ashley Graves) we tend to isolate, demonize and then kill them because they were incapable of fitting into the larger societal standard of acceptable social behaviour, even when said society never did anything to help them meet its unreachable standards because it required too much work from society's side to give you the special attention you needed in order to make you work and fit in.

V was a quiet kid because she was shy, Doll was a quiet kid because she was introverted. Those are two very different types of people and one of them (Doll) was inherently more at risk of developing mental health issues than the other due to their personality type and how it's stigmatized.*

Here's also the original post made by an anonymous user on @md-confessions

Also, here's the link to another post still talking about V and Doll. I made two comments in response, but neither of them is particularly well thought out and since you can't correct them I left them as they were.

Now, back to the highlighted part:

I want to use this response as a springboard to talk about the main differences between Doll and V when it comes to their different handling of their decaying mental health and why it's unfair to say that one of them was worse than the other based on their actions and attitude towards the problem.

(Also, all of the Murder Drones characters are extremely complex, and the fact that the show doesn't have filler makes it harder to get a good grip on one's particular mindset, so if it seems like I'm talking more about Doll than I am about V, it is because V is the most complicated character in the cast and I'm not as confident to talk about her as I am with Doll; it took one entire year to finally understand Doll as well as I do now, so V is a touchy subject for me that's why I might not do her justice).

First of all, it has to be said: Doll is a sociopath, V isn't, despite appearing like one. And that's ok.

When I say that I feel more sympathy towards Doll than I do for V, this is what I mean: I don't sympathise with Doll heartlessness more than I do with V jackassery; rather I understand and relate with Doll's low empathy since I also have low empathy as well, and it is quite common for people like us to be misunderstood for uncaring individuals.

It's the same reason why I and many others tend to like villains and sympathise with them more than we do with the heroes (Lord Shen from Kung Fu Panda 2 is the perfect example for this); it's quite common for villains to be written as individuals with low empathy, as an highly empathetic individual tends to be harder for the audience to buy as an antagonist, since you need to justify why someone this caring is committing all this heinous and terrible stuff, but if that person is already unemphatetic by nature, than it's just a matter of establishing their goals and motivations. These people also tend to be ostracized by their environment and go through a gruesome and violent death because it's socially acceptable to let these despicable individuals find comeuppance through death since they lack the traits that make a person traditionally good.

So, when people use the "So what? She's got dead parents. Many others do, including Uzi, who's also infected with the Absolute Solver, yet they have not become cannibalistic serial killers obsessed with revenge" as a slight against Doll it's not entirely fair because from what we've gathered in the show the other worker drones don't suffer from sadistic impulses and sociopathy like Doll does, even if they (Rebecca) are pretty uncaring. (Side note, Uzi also suffers from sadism/sadistic impulses, but not from sociopathy, hence the main difference between the two).

V, on the other hand, despite what her introduction and psycho girl persona might trick you into believing, was never a sociopath nor did she struggle with low empathy, she was, instead, a pretty timid maid who suffered through unspeakable physical and psychological trauma that led her to adopt this fake identity to cope for the atrocities that she was now committing for the company (Absolute Solver) and the safety of N; V cared about N in a pretty normal person kind of way: she kept N at arms length and hid the truth from him so that he wouldn't get hurt, all while detaching herself from the actions she was now committing, not saying Doll wouldn't or didn't commit any of these actions, but V did them in a way that better aligns with someone who doesn't suffer from sociopathic disorder.

Speaking of N, since he has been mentioned, I'll say that while Uzi suffers from sadism but not low empathy (she has shown to be pretty empathetic many times), N doesn't suffer from sadism but from low empathy; as better explained by a section of this post made by @melissa-titanium :

N x Doll

Don't believe me? Then maybe you should rewatch the series again because N's unemphateticness is his own can of worms to delve into.

But back to Doll, it's time to dissolve (😏) one of the oldest misconceptions surrounding her character:

Doll reached out for help. A lot. She just didn't have any luck with it.

Call me crazy, but the more I thought about it, the more I realised that the fandom wide spread belief that Doll rejected all the help that was handed to her to be a massive lie, and in fact, Doll actually tried to reach out way more than you thought, arguably, even more than Uzi:

The impact that Yeva's education has had on Doll's life can only be noticed in this way: Yeva extended her hand to Nori and she accepted it, thus, it is fair to assume that Yeva taught Doll to be pretty open to others and to give a hand to someone in need (the show was rewritten after the pilot, so ignore the incongruences with Doll's initial characterization), and in fact, after enduring the trauma of watching her parents die, she opened up to Lizzie for help and support, unfortunately, Lizzie wasn't exactly the right person to talk about these things (no offence to her, all of Uzi's classmates suck for one reason or another, including Uzi herself, I guess that's what happens when you are stuck inside a bunker your whole life), after all, Doll was still killing and cannibalising her classmates.

Then, before she went back to gain her revenge, she tried to get Uzi on her side, which wasn't an attempt to open up, but she was still willing to connect, even if for the wrong reasons. Finally, once she discovers that Uzi also has the Absolute Solver, she promises to help her out, and at this point, Doll wishes to talk it out with Uzi, but because she is surrounded by the Disassembly Drones (V), she can't.

And now, for the most interesting discussion, there's this brief and frankly weird moment in episode 5 where Doll compliments Khan for raising Uzi, and while Khan laughs it off immediately, since he is a dumbass, this could have been a perfect opportunity for him to reach out to Doll and reason with her, since she's clearly putting aside whatever her objective actually is to talk to him, but he doesn't catch on, and this leads Doll to immediately closing herself off again and returning to the mission, and like, maybe we all kind of underestimated how much significance this moment carried, but consider this:

Doll, at this point in time, has been living out in the cold for what... a month? Six months? A YEAR? If we exclude J and Cyn from the equation, this is probably the only social interaction she ever had since The Promening, yet, because of Khan's lack of touch, she immediately reminds herself of the massive disconnection between her and the other workers (eh ehm sociopath) and thus storms off rapidly; this moment is actually quite painful when you look at it from this perspective, yet it's also, the only interpretation that makes sense? Otherwise how do you explain the existence of this moment when Murder Drones is a show infamous for his high plotting and lack of filler? They had to go out of their way to animate this, so why did they play it off in this way?

Tessa is a meanie

Penultimately, and again, I want to bring up a post by @capnsaltsquid since that's where I got the inspiration to write this paragraph off, Doll opened up to J and Tessa to get the answers she was seeking, yet not only Tessa shot her in the face for s###s and giggles, but then proceeded to fraternise with her parents murderers, and at this point, she closes herself off enough to realise that she might have to unintentionally kill Uzi and leave everyone in the dust if she wants to get anything at all.

But unfortunately, that is not the case, she dies of a lonely, meaningless, gruesome death, and at this point, she still tries and finally succeeds in reaching out to Uzi, and yet, like all of her previous tries, this is unsuccessful, as Uzi has other things in mind right now.

To wrap things up nicely, both V and Doll went through severe amounts of trauma and handled said trauma in a similar yet also different way, since they are different individuals who process emotions and love differently, thus the actions they took made sense for the person they were and should only be judged in the context of their writing and characterization.

Want more?

[kacievvbbbb]

Ty Lee becoming a kyoshi warrior made no sense to me. If anything it feels like a regression. Don't get me wrong I think she'd fit in well with them and I love suki/ty lee but realistically at the start of the season we hear Ty Lee proclaim that her trauma of growing up with six identical sisters is what drove her to the circus and it was kind of dismissed. and then we never really get any closure on this the time we see her she betrays Azula and is imprisoned and then after that the last time we see her she is part of the group in full garb after befriending them off screen.

she joined the one group where a huge recruitment is looking like everyone else. Why?

And the thing is this totally could have worked her coming to terms with her identity even tho she looks like everyone else she is still Ty Lee and she has a lot to contribute by simply being her (and also like how she taught them chi blocking) and so the idea of becoming another "faceless" girl doesn't scare her as much because she knows that to the people that matter they know who she is.

But like the way its done just feels like they needed a nice little fun way to wrap up ty lee's story but it also makes it feel like Ty Lee is incapable of standing on her own, if its not the circus its azula and mai if not them the kyoshi warriors. She's never just on her own being Ty lee she is always playing fidde to some group.

I think it would have been better if the ending had ty lee instead of having already joined the kyoshi warriors had instead been separated from mai and anyone she knew in prison and had had to for the first time get by on her own merits as a person not what she could do for other people. (a bit like what Suki does in Suki alone) and then a little moment between her and Suki where they reconcile Ty Lee tells her how she wants to help rebuild the word after the devastation of the fire nation and Suki's like "it's not exactly rebuilding the word but maybe you can teach me and my girls that chi blocking you do, it's impressive." and Ty lee could smile and agree. Not exactly an invitation to join but a way for her to carve out her own niche and make a mark in a safe space. It could also tie into the chi blockers that we see in LoK of Ty lee decides she likes teaching and decides to teach more non-benders how to protect themselves since the Kyoshi Warriors is pretty sacred and has traditions that not everybody can adhere too.

I just think making her a kyoshi warrior came out of nowhere and not that ut couldn't work at all but it would have needed more time to breathe. I would say have Suki introduce the fact that the kyoshi warriors are going to stay as Zuko's security detail for a while and Ty Lee's knowledge of the palace and Chi blocking skills would be an amazing hep to them so she starts of working with them and maybe int he comiucs we can see that she joined them (but I doubt they had decided this little plot line when the series actually ended)

[the-genius-az]

I have an idea.

I'm thinking of an Au where there was actually no war and it's only in the minds of the characters.

Do you know about Harry Potter? There are many fics that talk about Harry actually being in an asylum and not at Hogwarts.

Anyway, what disorders would the characters have?

For example, Azula has schizophrenia, what about the others?

I'm thinking Zuko has bipolar disorder or something.

But give me clear explanations because I love analysis!

[sh3nlong-promakh0s]

i totally agree with u tho retrospectively in canon according to the comics you can see ursa cares about azula but if you had only watched the show you wouldn't be able to gather that. for the same reason i don't like the comics (except for the art lol)

i also think like the way we see that ursa as a young woman in hira'a had a personality quite similar to azula's: brash, headstrong, and had a tendency towards being bratty and violent (doesn't she punch ikem for some reason) and bc of that i think that her attitude towards azula is even more hypocritical haha. but otherwise ya~ and in the comics i think they do want to mend their relationship and have a deeper bond (with the exception of how azula in the spirit temple ends smh i didn't like the ending it was messy)

Ursa didn't love Azula

And if she did she never showed it properly which... for a child is felt the same as not being loved at all. I can understand especially in the context of the abusive domestic situation their family was in that it was difficult for Ursa to properly parent both her children, but it's not a stretch to say that Ursa saw too much of Ozai in Azula, and she sure as hell didnt love Ozai lol

[lazyveran]

thinking about where azula's ego comes from and her self confidence

see, azula's been born into and seemingly fully subscribes to the divine right of kings and heavens mandate and so on. so assuming this, her self worth and confidence is innate. her ego doesn't stem from trying to prove herself, since she believes that she's simply been born better than others. for azula, that's fact. she's intrinsically a princess, a royal, something more divine than man. alongside this is the imperial cult of personality built up around the royals that azula is born into, no doubt shaping this idea further. azula expects the love of her people, she expects complete obedience and respect, and she expects herself to simply be better than others. this is reassured by her skill in firebending, which does put her in a league of her own. it's physical, undeniable proof that she is better. therefore the two cores of her ego compliment and reinforce each other and result in her supreme confidence.

azula using backup and azula doing things that would make others insecure or shameful simply doesn't matter. whatever she does is right and will not reflect poorly on herself because she believes she is better than everyone on an intrinsic level. why on earth would she care about what others think? she's the princess, after all. she has nothing to prove.

it also places her relationships in a very interesting light. azula has been raised to see herself as a leader of those 'lesser' than her, so mai and ty lee fall into that category. she uses them because of her intelligence, she does not feel shame in it because of her very anchored, stable ego, but ultimately they cant be equals to her because of right of birth, and she treats them as such. there's a gap there that azula can't bridge because if she does, shes betraying one of the core foundations of herself.

but what i think is so interesting is that her self confidence is deeply anchored within the few she does see as equal. and that, invariably, is family. because they're the only ones that also possess the royalty in which azula builds her self perception off of. it's why ursa effects her so badly, why in the few moments they have outside the palace she treats her brother - her rival in as many names as is the royal convention (and really that almost defines their relationship because azula sees herself as a princess first and sister second) - with respect and care. or as much as she can in her stilted azula way. and of course, her father. the fire lord. the sole and supreme divine ruler of her nation.

the only person she doesnt seem to extend this to is iroh, but i assume that's because he forsook the throne. which to azula is forsaking his birthright, their shared birthright as royals, and therefore he becomes lesser in her eyes. he didnt want to be royal in as many words, and azula demotes him accordingly within her own mind. why would she listen to someone who willingly 'lowers' himself to be rabble? zuko, at least, despite being demoted in her eyes by her father, still fights for his birthright. that is something she understands at a core level, and no doubt one of the reasons she offers his prince-hood back to him.

it almost seems to me that at some point azula starts to see herself more by her titles, role and function as royalty than as a daughter and person. no doubt from ozai's attitude towards her deeply shaping her own self worth. she's been groomed to be the throne's servant first, and a daughter second afterall. ursa's absence amplifies this, removing the one shaping force that insists that azula is a girl, not a weapon nor a perfect princess. where zuko's journey separates his self worth from his position as prince, azula doesn't get that actualisation. she is a princess who is also a girl. she is a royal that happens to be a human too.

to her, ozai is her fire lord before he is her father. zuko is a prince before he is her brother. ursa is the fire lady before she is her mother. the throne comes first, always. azula relies on her status as royalty to understand herself and her position in the world. without it, shes completely unmoored and most likely has no idea who she is, how to operate, or where her loyalties should lie. she seems almost dependant on her status in that way. she sacrifices everything for it. because what is she, who is everyone else, if she's not a princess?

[thornwashere]

catradora, catra, and azula is there too

this is sort of a multifandom post (bc both of these shows have a death grip on my brain juices) but it’s something ive been thinking about

awhile ago i saw this video about why catradora is abusive, and i realized it had some good points. catradora is objectively, even just disregarding the romance factor, an abusive relationship. (STAY WITH ME NOW FOLKS, i love catradora give me a second)

it’s not fair, however, to say catra and her relationship with adora are plainly horrible things. in fact, given the (criminally short) time the two characters are seen romantically involved on screen, i think the situation was handled quite well.

one character i never see catra compared to is azula, but i genuinely think it is an incredibly accurate comparison.

both were raised in non ideal circumstances, and both were incredibly skilled and of course have similar personalities. instead of breaking off and healing like the person in their similar circumstance does (zuko and adora respectively), they stay because they both want to prove themselves.

azula, by the end, isn’t there for the power trip. she wants to prove herself to her father.

and catra at first wants to prove herself to shadowweaver. then hordak. then horde prime. and then at the end? she wants to prove herself to adora.

they are parallels, both treated horribly by their mother figures, longing for companionship and attachment, but being far too brash and trained for violence to be able to function healthily anywhere. catra sees adora. azula sees her mom.

one thing i think we always forget is that both of these characters are CHILDREN. minors. young people. easily influenced KIDS who want to prove themselves. who were, quite frankly, raised in a purely abusive environment. but because they both show the hard, not sunshine and rainbows pretty side of trauma, they are therefore evil people.

what both of these characters do to people is abuse. i wont disregard that at all. but abuse most often comes from a place of trauma, violence, and rage.

when catra came over to good, things are still not easy for her.

remember when zuko got sick after helping aang and appa in s2? (a far too underspoken of an arc i must add) catra is ALSO sick after having such a drastic mental switch, but she shows it with her intense amount of mental problems. this wont be cured by falling in love with adora. this wont be cured by being with adora. she will still lash out and hurt people and be sick.

people don’t seem to recognize there is a gray area between “uncaring hatred and abuse” and “love cured me.” it’s not fair to say catra is evil. that’s disregarding what catra went through. but it’s also not fair to say catra is a fully good, amazing person. that’s disregarding everything she has done.

my favorite character IS catra because of how complex and imperfect and FULLY flawed she is. her trauma isn’t coded with sugared words and cured by romance. it’s raw, powerful, sad and angry. and it is also scary. that’s how trauma is.

mentally ill people are redeemable. azula is redeemable. catra isn’t exempt from this.

none of this is to say catra and adora shouldnt date (bc they should bc they are cutie patooties [and mentally ill people can be in perfectly healthy relationships]) but just that BOTH OF THEM need to heal before their relationship can be considered healthy. they need to take time and heal.

overall the point of this post was to show there is a gray area between irredeemable villainous acts and an entirely innocent person :)

i’ve discovered i love tumblr bc i can just yap and yap and people will see it?? and like?? acknowledge what im saying?? crazy fr