#Atonement Theories

[hobbitsetal]

Reading your post about parenting, and I'm finding myself with a few questions. From my quick searching, I've figured that penal substitutionary atonement theory is that Christ was punished in place for our sins. If you don't believe that anymore, what is it you believe? That's the only thing I have ever heard as the reasoning for Christs suffering and Crucifixion, and I'm extremely curious what you believe was the purpose behind the Crucifixion, if not a substitution for our sins. I've done a little searching on that as well, but haven't really been able to find what other beliefs would be.

OH HELL YES LET'S TALK ATONEMENT THEORIES!!

Penal substitionary atonement theory (or PSA, if you wanna be brief), is the idea that Jesus died in our place to placate the wrath of God specifically. This is important; this is the penal part of that theory. The Reformers developed it (1500s), building off Anselm's satisfaction theory of atonement.

Google provides this quick summary of Anselm's theory: "Anselm's “satisfaction” theory of atonement posits that Christ's death on the cross functioned as a gift to God on behalf of humanity to restore the order of justice subverted by sin. Especially in recent years, the theory has been criticized for obscuring God's mercy."

So what are our alternatives? Good news, anon! You and I are blessed by my husband, a man well educated in church history and possessed of an insatiable need to research things!

The early church held largely to the ransom theory of atonement: that Christ's death paid a ransom to Satan to rescue us from him.

Christus Victor was another theory held by much of the early church, and forms a part of my own (somewhat nebulous) current beliefs regarding atonement. It is "...the model of atonement which, according to Kristian, speaks of “Jesus redeeming us from oppressive powers—sin, death, the Devil—to whom we'd bound ourselves by our own treachery. Christ 'disarmed' those powers and triumphed over them on the cross (Col. 2:13–15)."

(Side note: Christus Victor and ransom theory are very similar, but Alex insists there are nuances and differences. Apparently ransom theory in various forms was the dominant theory for the first thousand years of post-Christ church belief.)

Google pulled that quote from this blog: https://www.samstorms.org/enjoying-god-blog/post/the-christus-victor-theory-of-the-atonement-whence-the-victory

Sam Storms argues against Christus Victor as incomplete, asking how humanity came to be in bondage to the devil and asserting that personal sin is the answer. I'd argue that Romans says we fell through Adam as well as our own failings, but I honestly don't think that's the larger issue.

The larger issue is how you understand God's base disposition toward humanity. In my opinion, PSA frames God as, at His core, angry with humanity due to our sin and standing in punitive judgment, but for Himself standing in the gap.

Christus Victor, the scapegoat theory of atonement, and the moral influence theory of atonement (a term I just discovered in googling to respond to you!) all frame God's base disposition as that of love, reaching out to redeem humanity.

Now, what theory you personally hold is up to you. We have over two thousand years of church history and we have multiple forms of orthodoxy when it comes to atonement theories. Let me share with you the article from which I pulled the "moral influence theory" by way of wrapping this up.

There are fewer doctrines in Christianity of which one can truly say "This is the only way the church believes" than one might think. Not all Christians believe in original sin. Not all believe in a fiery hell. And not all believe Christ died to absorb the wrath of God.

They do believe in Christ their Savior. However, church history demonstrates there's room to debate what exactly we're saved from. Orthodoxy is believing in atonement. It doesn't dictate the reason for the atonement.)

(For further reading, I highly recommend Brian Zahnd's "Sinners in the Hands of a Loving God." I recommend this so highly that if you'd like to DM me your mailing address, I will buy a copy for you.)

[thinkingonscripture]

The Suffering of Jesus Christ

When God the Son added perfect humanity to Himself, this enabled Him to experience suffering and death with, and on behalf of, humanity. The suffering of Christ may be viewed in at least two ways: 1) His suffering during His time on earth prior to the cross, and 2) the suffering of the cross. As the God-Man, Jesus was perfectly holy in all His thoughts, words, and actions. Such perfect holiness…

[thoughtfulstudentsalad]

Every time Hak and Su-Won talk there's just so much history and insight you see in their dynamic. They act like totally different characters, they're more open and mature. Su-Won telling Lili to go ahead so that he and Hak could be alone and have the bro talk, the fact that Hak confides with him first…

And while Hak definitely believes in Yona, with the fact that Hak still believes in Su-Won despite it all, I honestly think SooHak gives them a run for their money even though they have had considerably less interactions than HakYona in the story.

[baylardian-1]

im cringe but im free!!!!!!!!!!!! 🤪

uniquely in the First Splinter Timeline (book canon), i think kathryn would regain all of her lost/hazy memories from all that happens to her in the Q Continuum when she's brought back from death. which, GOOD OR BAD, would allow her to remember those three hyperevolved glory days. :)

(multiple timelines allows me to enjoy playing in both sandboxes of kathryn can/can't remember how the triplets came about haha)

also i think everyone just assumes she'd be fine and well-versed in having a baby but she actually isn't and she's terrified of the whole ordeal and it's way harder than laying eggs haha.

[gwandas]

If certain people are right about a nesta vs rhys high king/queen plot… I’m afraid that plotline is gonna end up with nesta dead

[haloberry]

I was sick this entire day, but before bed, my daily theory.

Thank Saints that the event is on a Saturday, I would have actually skip school to watch it(/j)— but let’s talk about what we want to happen on the 4th.

Obviously, the eggs coming back is a major one. While not confirmed, it would line up if they did come back since we know that their all stuck somewhere completely different to the main island. And, with the most recent Quackity tweet, we can assume they were stuck in a place called Purgatory.

How they got there, no clue, but we know that Purgatory just by the name alone is no bueno. And apparently, that’s where the islanders are going. They all have a one way ticket to Purgatory, yay.

The thing is, where and what the fuck is it? Is it another island? Is it a dimension? Is it genuinely the afterlife? The tickets themselves were given out by Cucurojo, or black Cucurucho, who was thought to have no connection to the Federation. But, at the same time, the Federation obviously knows about Purgatory given ElQuackity had stolen the ticket from Quackity to go there. Describing it as “a place worse than torture .” (Loose translation I’m tired lmao)

Not to mention the black concrete, which was probably Purgatory leaking through onto the island. But, what does it fucking mean? Here are my 2 working theories.

1) It’s a place where, like it’s name, we get to see the islanders pay for their sins. What sins you may ask? Well, breaking all those rules of course! It could be a mass punishment to the islanders going through many challenges, from harder mods, to harder enigmas, to fucking “survival of the fittest” type bullshit all while protecting the eggs that have been living there for the past 2 months!

2) Like the 1st theory, expect this time instead of island, it’s a different dimension entirely. That’s why ElQuackity was sent there to give feedback to the Federation to explain how they could get rid of it while also keeping an eye of the islanders to make sure they don’t die.

Who knows at this point, but I hope Etoiles gets that fucking Periodite! He’s gunna need it! I’m excited for the horrors that are gunna unfold while I most likely do my laundry while watching the streams lmao.

[runefactorynonsense]

Cozytober - Day 26 - Catnap

[vyragosa]

[monikatouhou]

i should figure out how to make music sometime

[bravevolunteer]

ngl there’s a little part of my brain that doesn’t know whether to feel upset or validated about little movie vanessa details aligning with things i’ve said about the aftons/michael

[fierysword]

Clement of Alexandria

[thoughtfulstudentsalad]

Why is it that only half of the crimson illness descendants get ill and the other half doesn't?

Is it the awareness of the existence of King Hiryuu that triggers it?

Yon-Hi tried to forget about King Hiryuu... but failed because she saw Yona.

She basically died after seeing Yona's hair, which reminded her of King Hiryuu, and triggered the illness. The dragon gods also decided to call her back after she thought of Hiryuu.

Her father was also called to heaven because the dragon gods wanted to call King Hiryuu back to heaven.

In Su-Won's case, Note that when Mei-nyan says, "You can't tell me King Hiryuu doesn't weigh on your mind", it triggers his headache.

This is the moment that made Su-Won for a split second actually get threatened like, "oh she's going to kill me one day." So his illness was clearly triggered by a growing awareness of King Hiryuu's existence.

Ironic thing is, according to this theory, if Su-Won had just vehemently kept denying that Yona was Hiryuu for the rest of his life (anti-gods, pro-people), and no proof of it ever showed up, it was ironically probably the best way for him to avoid ever dying early. Perhaps he would have never gotten sick.

So as for why he got the illness early... doesn't that imply that the Crimson Dragon King was on his mind for a very long time, and as such, the dragon gods have been seeking him much more earlier than other descendants?

I keep wondering, and I have wondered this before... what if growing up, whenever visiting the castle, he constantly had to hear Il's fanatical rants about Yona being King Hiryuu? I have theorized this before. I mean he hates even hearing the name, implying he's heard too much.

There is also the fact that Su-Won did like Yona's hair, although he never wanted to put two and two together (aka equate it with King Hiryuu's hair).

All I'm going to say is... the dragon gods really might be looking for Su-Won soon.

If the shrine collapses, it's going to be because the coffin budged/something happens to the corpse of the king.

Also remember this scene: "If you're reaching for something, go for the heavens"

This is also silly to consider, but what if this was foreshadowing?

The Crimson Dragon king became a man in defiance of the heavens.

It also sounds a lot like Su-Won, who defied the heavens and wanted the power of the people. But the dragon gods don't like that. They want King Hiryuu BACK in the heavens.

That's also probably why they made him sick earlier, maybe?

All I'll say is, Su-Won is about to be very aware of the Crimson Dragon King. I mean he's about to meet his corpse. I wonder if that's going to exacerbate the symptoms of his illness. I don't know what will happen, but I do think something is about to be disrupted.

[notonal]

Composition challenge: write a work for kazoo.

I promise it’s a very rewarding experience, and if I ever get a recording of my theme and variations for kazoo choir I will post it here

Things to Remember:

Kazoo is dependent on the vocal range of the performer

Higher notes tend to sound smoother and more instrumental while lower notes sound more buzzy

The kazoo works better if you instruct your performers to articulate more like a brass or woodwind instrument, rather than just humming/singing into it

And lastly but

Most important

It’s kazoo, there are NO RULES

[taintthesaint]

Yeah? Your ears can’t settle on a tonal center? Huh. Sounds like a YOU problem.

[thinkingonscripture]

Who Crucified Jesus?

The question is sometimes raised as to who crucified Jesus? According to Chafer, “Closely related to the contrast between the divine and human sides of Christ’s death, is the question: Who put Christ to death? As already indicated, the Scriptures assign both a human and a divine responsibility for Christ’s death.”[1] According to the testimony of Scripture, Jesus’ death on the cross was the…

[raven-at-the-writing-desk]

weirdness

OKAY

Why’s Skully’s idea of the ideal Halloween so jank??? Bro wants:

No candy (he says it’s frivolous and therefore unnecessary; Trey and Riddle argue for candy, RIDDLE defends CANDY)

No decorations (he calls for modesty and simplicity)

No color (just rooms painted entirely black with a single lit pumpkin; Vil and even Malleus, who often wears mostly black, areagainst this idea)

No music, no dancing (only silence; he says music and dancing is inappropriate even after the mermen talk about the importance of music)

To beat back (bad) ghosts (even though this holiday is meant to honor them all and their temporary return to the land of the living; Leona, Sebek, and Jamil are appalled at the suggestion, calling it discourteous)

Very odd how his entire concept of Halloween contradicts his idol’s vision for it?? Especially since Skully claims he and his entire village supposedly worship Jack Skellington as the founder of the holiday. In fact, Skully seems to be experiencing cognitive dissonance when Jack proposes a Halloween with all the things Skully disapproves of, but agrees to help with Jack’s vision anyway. What kind of twisted version of history do they have in his hometown…? Are Jack and Halloween as a whole just super dull there???

AND TO TOP IT ALL OFF, Skully js disappointed when you disagree with him… There’s also a very strange personality shift between Skully’s upbeat, gentlemanly self and the Skully that makes that deranged expression, speaks ill of dissenters, and gets gloomy when his ideas are rejected. His wording is also very odd???? He says things like he’ll teach everyone what a “proper” Halloween is, which is very reminiscent of how controlling Riddle was back in book 1. Skully also talks about LOT about reflection and atonement. He also mentions it is his duty/reason why he was brought to this world/book… to show everyone what Halloween truly is.

HOW IS SKULLY JUST AS CONSERVATIVE AND VAGUELY RELIGIOUS AS ROLLO???????? 😭 Look, it’s okay to have a different perspective on Halloween and want to celebrate it differently than the modern and more commercialized version of it, but there’s no need to be upset about it when you get outvoted??? (Not the NRC students were the most polite when they told Skully off, but still…) Really not sure how to feel about this.

Starting to think your classmates were right about you being WEIRD, Skully 💀 I didn’t buy the “he’s a cultist” or “he’s old/dead” or “he’s Rollo’s dead brother” theories but now I’m really eyeballin’ him suspiciously… (Not that I believe the theories now, but something is definitely up with him.)