#Asian Honorifics

[saezurumurmurs]

Useful Info!

BL Language & Culture Master Post (mostly Thai)

This is one of my meta round up guides to linguistic & language posts I’ve done over the years (because of a recent ask). I’m not a linguist but I love the interrelationship between language and culture and have studied it from a cultural perspective (anthropology). There are many things we miss about BLs when we watch them in translation. I started to study Thai in order to understand some of this. These are posts that tunnel into elements we miss as outsiders, please make sure you read the updated version and the comments.

General BL Linguistics

Asian Honorifics & BL - a quick & dirty guide, with examples from BLs 

10 BL Scenes I Wish We Had Translator Notes On 

English Language as a Narrative Trope in BL

Why Are Subs/Captions Censored? Or different? Or inaccurate?  

BL: Subs, Captions, Niche Fandom Languages, Jargon, Linguistics, Epistemology, Global Shared passions

A translator comes out to talk to us! Yay! 

Links to Understand the Nuances of Thai Language & Culture & its Impact on Thai BL

Learning Thai - Self Taught

Explaining Thai to the Casual BL Watcher - It Has Registers - most BLs take place in the informal register, so for tourists this is NOT the kind of Thai you should actually speak.

Linguistic Fun In Thai BL - once you understand its logic Thai is actually a pretty easy language to learn to speak as there’s no declensions or conjugations, and making something plural is EASY  

More on Thai Linguistic Registers - Particles & Honorifics 

Thai Pronouns & Honorifics when Seme/Uke is Flipped 

Sarcastic use of honorifics & polite particles in Thai 

Linguistically fascinating BL couples 

Thai Honorifics Between Ages in BL and real life 

Reading English Captions Vs Thai Linguistics 

Queer Lens & Thai BL 

BL Linguistics & Queer Identity I Am Gay versus I Like Men 

Husband Wife Language in Thai BL (SOTUS, TharnType + a lot of 2022 BL) 

Touch & Daisy in Secret Crush On You - Queer Coded Language and 3rd Gender Identity 

Daisy, kathoey, 3rd third gender, Thai language & culture (and a bit of BL)  

Thai BL Lacks Representation of Butch & Transgender Men (and why this has to do with Thailand’s 3rd Gender) 

Cultural Nuance Around Thai BL 

Struggling with Thai Language and Acting Style?

Thai Military Service & Thai BL - AKA why does Tee have a shaved head in Make it Right and why don’t Thai actors disappear for military service the way K-pop idols do?

Thai BL & Product Placement (weirdly, a defence)

It’s Thai BL cocktail hour! - I make Thai influenced cocktails to pair with BLs.

Thai Desserts in Until We Meet Again - all of them described plus meanings and links to recipes.

Thai Food You Should Eat Because of BL - Som Tum in What’s Zabb Man, Kao Soi in Bite Me, Khai Palo in Enchanté, Gaeng Tai Pla in Close Friend 2, Luk Choup in La Cuisine, Chor Muang in UWMA, Nom Yen in SOTUS, 2 Moons, 2 Moons 2, Nitman, and Love Area

Very specific Thai Language Moments 

Thai Nouns 

Thai Verbs (Thai Verb “to be”) 

Explain that Word? Ter (He’s Coming to Me) 

Chan When Used By A Male (Unforgotten Night)

The Nu Diminutive in Thai (KinnPorsche, Secret Crush on You) 

Why Ai'Hia was so funny in Cutie Pie 

Ai’ with Aye & Akk - The Eclipse & Thai honorifics 

Confusion Clean Up Concerning Thai that I get ALL THE TIME 

THAI NAMES 

Thai actors and characters use a nickname (chue len) that can seem really odd to English speakers. Unlike many other Asian languages Thai names are written and spoken as we do in the west: (Nickname +) Given Name + Family Name. Names are coupled with honorifics for spoken address, which are based on social status and age dynamics.

More? Thai Names & BL - Why SO Weird (to Westerners)

THAI WORD MISSPELLINGS 

Thai is a syllabic alphabet, so Thai words and names can be spelled multiple ways in English. Thus there are some characters known by multiple names (because different subbers transcribed differently), for example Med/Mes and Than/Thun in He’s Coming to Me, or Aeoy/Aey in Lovely Writer.

WIERD BL TITLES

The Thai language contains no articles, so titles get dropped articles in translation. Hence A Tale of Thousand Stars (missing a) and I Told Sunset About You (missing the).

THAI PRONOUNS & GENDER

Thai spoken pronouns mostly gender in first and second (I/you) but not often in third (she/he/they). 

Nouns often do not confer gender (there is no boyfriend/girlfriend only faen). 

Unlike most romance language Thai object nouns are agender too, (a boat is just a boat, boats aren’t female). 

Names are often used in place of I/you. In other words, you say your own name, and (honorific +) other people’s names A LOT. 

Formal polite particles (krap/kha) are gendered, informal polite & rude particles are not.

THE WAI

The wai, or formal acknowledgment, consists of a slight bow of the head, with the palms pressed together and raised towards the face. The words sawat di are often spoken with the wai followed by the krub/ka polite particle. Here’s Perth Nakhun (Ram from My Engineer) explaining sawat di.

Silliness? 5 Love Languages of Thai BL 

…

Most of the articles listed above with reference sources of information and link to other articles and more on each subject. 

I will attempt to keep this meta post updated, current post date is Dec 2022. 

(source) 

[wisteriagoesvroom]

ollie bearman confirmed to join haas so now that’s oscar “oppar” piastri to u

[mimiruku]

wanted to participate in that ' Which OC gives other people nicknames? ' , but Miruku is absolutely the opposite of that, if he likes you a lot, he'll use your full name : ' Tsunayoshi ' never ' Tsuna ' - ' Yi Pin' never ' Ipin', whether or not people will catch onto this is not his problem. never let Miruku find out Reborn's gov't name cause suddenly it's Renato.

[chuluoyi]

what i don't understand is why caleb HAS to be a LI :( like it will make fans riot because his haters are there from the very beginning because he is branded as "brother"... paper games can do better by releasing brand new LI like sylus or smth

from a year i’ve been in this platform, i’ve learned that every fictional character, apparently and surprisingly, has haters :)

are you a fan of korean wave culture? if you still don’t understand what 哥哥 gege means, then it’s the literal chinese counterpart of korean’s 오빠 oppa. international fans have come to accept the word “oppa” as normal and it’s pretty harmless, right? then to put it very simply, the same case also applies with “gege” so personally, i don’t see much problem with him being a LI

[saltyyetbland]

okay but im so happy that we are getting a non-latin alphabet language being added to the qsmp cause yay new language, new culture, very exciting and im happy that quackity studios posted that thread as well cause for at least languages that use the same alphabet, people can make guesses on what words mean but like looking at english vs korean or chinese for example, like you can't just guess that based on latin alphabet knowledge so the ccs have to use the translator feature a lot more now or actually dive into learning a language completely from scratch (ie starting with the korean alphabet system for example)

[yudrein]

ryu chungwoo showing his control freak tendencies as early as ch 27

[asteropewpew]

DOKJA. KIM.

WHO ARE YOU AND WHAT HAVE YOU DONE TO KIM DOKJA ❓

it's been a huge loss for the int'l orv fans *on the verge of tears*

just imagine dokja kim's narrative when he reveals that he often says, "I am Joonghyuk Yoo," for about a decade to survive his shitty life who the hell is Joonghyuk Yoo, Big Bro Joonghyuk, Mister Yoo?$!$?

[airenyah]

i did it guys, i turned my thai drama obsession into my bachelor thesis

[aldebarangel]

happy lesbian visibility week to the 12 year old lesbian who treats me like some peer and makes fun of me by calling me a short emo

[absolutebl]

Hello! I saw you mention this in your post about kink in BL and I'm curious... What do you mean by "linguistically" D/s? The use of titles? Or something beyond that?

Ah yes. So the use of something like phi or hia in Thai BL can be "daddy" coded. Not exactly but similar. If the characters are making a fuss about it in the BL as part of the plot, there's probubly something significantly intimate, sexual, or kinky going on (or all 3) with the language.

Also, if an older uke character swaps down registers (so suddenly uses own name or pom for the I pronoun) that's a sign of sexual submission. See LeonPob in Don't Say No.

You'll see friends tease each other in a flirtatious way with nong as well. Bad Buddy does this. (That a demotion of the person being called nong if they aren't a nong, and sometimes even if they are.)

Similarly hyung in Korean BLs has great power when sunbae is primarily in use prior. I call this "hyung slinging" when the use of the "older brother" honorific is pretty much weaponized for intimacy.

You want to see some serious hyung slinging? Watch Semantic Error.

The way JaeYoung melts whenever SangWoo uses hyung is KEY to their romantic arc. Then during yaja time when JaeYoung gets to use the word hyung on SangWoo, it is DRIPPING with sex appeal. No accident this is right before they kiss.

It's so linguistically kinky it's practically a master class in using a register shift for seduction.

Additionally, different application in the names, registers, and formalities in KBL or JBL (esp in terms of suffixes) is also in play (or given name vs family name) to drive intimacy and sexual tension.

For JBL I go into this grappling in Minato's Laundromat. That's a younger character blatantly courting an older character and the language use goes all over the map in a push and pull of seduction and resistance.

I recently noticed in The 8th Sense (after they become boyfriends) the younger character JiHyun uses JaeWon-ssi (NAUGHTY BOY)- but not to his hyung's face, only when talking about his new lover to himself. It's VERY cute. He does slip in a "ya!"" (in front of his friend), gets reprimanded for it, but not severely. I think this is somewhat allowed in a country bumpkin, but there is definitely an extreme intimacy edge of ownership going on too.

It's a "my boyfriend can use casual language because he may be a brat but he's MY brat and he's the only one who's allowed" kind of thing.

[magatahmabun]

A short summary on why many Japanese fans don’t see Apollo and Nahyuta as brothers:

-The localization and original Japanese version differ quite a bit. Dhurke’s speech quirk of constantly calling Apollo “son” is not present in the Japanese version. The father-son themes are much, much more overt in the localization. Like, they’re still present in the Japanese version and Dhurke still clearly view Apollo as his son but the localization bashes you in the head with it.

-The localization makes it seem like Apollo was legally adopted by Dhurke when the Japanese version makes it clear that wasn’t the case.

-There’s many official supplemental materials in Japanese clarifying Apollo and Nahyuta’s relationship that don’t exist in English.

-Lack of sibling honorifics and other linguistic aspects/certain dialogue between Apollo and Nahyuta (as well as the lack of such language from characters like Dhurke and Datz) convey that Apollo and Nahyuta don’t see each other as siblings. Nahyuta explicitly uses language that you cannot use with siblings, which I confirmed this with multiple native speakers. A lot of these linguistic aspects are not translatable into English.

-Dhurke’s relationship with Apollo as his foster parent and Dhurke’s relationship with Nahyuta as his blood father is treated as two separate things in both the original version and supplemental materials. Interestingly, both the Japanese and localization, have one line (weirdly in different places) where Nahyuta addresses Dhurke as “Father” whereas Apollo never did such.

-Cultural differences; childhood friends (that aren’t siblings) raised together and sharing parental figures is a very common thing in Asia and trope in Asian Media. It’s possible that the localization went with more of the adopted angle to appeal to the Western audience.

-The scene with Ga’ran referring to Nahyuta Apollo’s brother feels just as shocking as when Dahlia called Maya Phoenix’s girlfriend in 3-5. Ga’ran didn’t know of Apollo’s existence until five minutes before the trial, so the fact on the outsider completely removed from the situation said this, as opposed to Datz and Dhurke, solidifies that Ga’ran knows nothing about them and their relationship. Weirdly enough, Ga’ran mentions “brother” twice in the localization as opposed to just once.

There’s more points I’m forgetting but that’s from the top of my head. I plan on making an extensive post going in detail with screenshots and direct quotes later.

[gyuwoncheol]

Vantage Point | Meet the Characters & Series Masterlist

Status: Begins tomorrow (January 20)!

Pair: Mingyu × f.reader

Summary: Pulling off the "No Strings Attached" arrangement with his best-friend-turned-best-friend-with-benefits was easy, but when a new condition is added onto the mix, Mingyu didn't realise just how much he held onto you when you finally let go.

Genre: College au. BFFs to FWB trope. Fluff, Humor, Angst, Smut [chapters with smut will be indicated and will contain the necessary warnings]

Author’s Note: Please take time to read this before starting the series ☺️

Hello, my darlings! Finally getting round to posting this after missing the commited date last time due to covid. But welcome!!! 🥳 This is the first story to my Snap Shoot universe! Before you get into it, let me just point a few things. This is the first time I'm ever creating a universe with interwoven stories, and while I've done SMAUs before, this is the first one I've done for SVT and the first time I'm also this adventurous about it. It's definitely very different from what I post on here but I'm having lots of fun putting it together. I know it goes without saying, but I'll say it anyway, this is very much a work of fiction. This is an AU. While Korea may be the assumed setting for this series, it is not explicitly defined. I'm also trying to avoid using lots of Korean cultural references (maybe except for food) such as use of honorifics like "hyung". While many of my other works refrain from over-describing oc's physical features, you may find that in this series (and universe), oc's features will inevitably be defined. You'll find that the visuals of the characters and the aesthetic of the photos/social media posts will be Korean/ Asian. It's a SMAU, so i'll have to place photos and these photos must maintain consistent. I absolutely do not mean any ill intention of being non-inclusive (I don't even fit the same aesthetic as oc).

Again, it's a work of fiction, while I want you to relate to oc, kindly also allow me breathing space to build the character. If you feel uncomfortable at any point in the series, you are very much welcome to stop/unfollow. As mentioned, this is a SMAU, but it contains several chapters which are purely written narrations. All edits (texts, social media posts, etc.) were done by me, however some photos (esp those of Y/N) are from the web, if they are yours, please let me know so that I may credit you or remove the photo. The texts are all done on light mode. Deal with it. This follows a FWB trope, expect lots of smut and suggestive content— specific smut warnings will be available in chapters where they are present, along with other necessary warnings. This series will have lots of fluff and lots of crackhead nonsense humor. I hope you guys enjoy this as much as I enjoyed writing it.

Biggest shoutout to my dearest friend @wongyuseokie who has been nothing but supportive through all of this and through all my dramatic Mingy-induced meltdowns. I love you more than you’ll ever know ♥️

Meet the Characters

Mingyu: Sophomore, studying Film & Photography, yn/Camie's best friend since childhood

Yn: Sophomore, studying Film & Photography with Mingyu, Mingyu's best friend since childhood. Nicknamed "Camie" by her group of friends for her highly concerning camera collection/obsession.

Seokmin: Sophomore, studying Film & Photography, same friend group as mingyu and yn, Mingyu & Wonwoo's housemate

Soonyoung: technically a year older than the 3, but currently a Sophomore with Gyu, Cam and Seokmin after shifting into their major

Wonwoo: Junior, studying Film & Photography as well, Mingyu's guy best friend and housemate in The Man Cave, a brotherly figure to OC, Soonyoung's former classmate in highschool

The Man Cave: shared house near their university where Mingyu, Wonwoo and Seokmin live, and Soonyoung often crashes.

✨Other characters/members will come as the series progresses.

Series Masterlist

To be populated as each chapter is posted. There is no posting schedule. Chapters will just get uploaded as they come.

Teaser

Chapter One

Chapter Two

Chapter Three

Chapter Four

Chapter Five 🔞

Chapter Six 🔞

Chapter Seven

Chapter Eight

Chapter Nine

Chapter Ten

Tag List!

@strawberryya @idyllic-ghost @septemberskies @ladyblablabla

If you want to be tagged as each chapter comes out, do send me an ask or reply to this post so I could include you in the tag list 😊

[krownjester]

The Name

infodump abt usagi yojimbo/samurai rabbit names under cut

listen i always thought it was really weird that in samurai rabbit, yuichi is the given name and usagi is the surname, while in usagi yojimbo, miyamoto is the surname and usagi is the given name. it always gave me big tmnt 87 vibes, where they kept calling miyamoto “usagi yojimbo” which was, you know, the name of the COMIC, not the CHARACTER.

though characters in usagi yojimbo do regularly call miyamoto “usagi”, instead of going by surname, and usually dont have any honorifics. i personally dont know if this is for simplicity? (usagi yojimbo was created in america, by stan sakai who is an asian american, so maybe he simplified it for the western audience?) or for some other reason, but miyamoto isnt used as a given name (atleast not the articles i read) BUT i was looking into it, and while yuichi is a given name, i also found scant instances where its been used as a surname too. obviously this is on the internet so i very well COULD BE WRONG i am fuckin white canadian

anyhows i thought it would be cool if yuichi and miyamoto shared a given name, so in samurai rabbit, the gang is always calling yuichi by his given name bc theyre friends!! :] gennosuke is also a given name, so it makes sense that gen (in both yojimbo and samurai rabbit) is called by his given name similarly to usagi

[da-shrimping-station]

thinking about the OM cast with an Asian MC who is strict about using honorifics no matter what

for us Asians, that shit's programmed and taught to us since day 1 and even if they're in Hell, i don't think an Asian MC will let that go so easily 😭 not to mention everyone is technically their elder so politeness in thrown in the mix too

the brothers would be so confused and weird about it cuz??? they have names, they're chill with MC calling them by name and not to mention they live under the same roof

why would they insist on being so formal and call them Sir???

Lucifer, Diavolo, and Barbatos would find it funny and a little bit endearing.

Diavolo is amused and is happy to hear him being addressed in another way other than 'your highness'

Barbatos thinks you shouldn't call him sir at all but is glad that you at least have manners.

Lucifer also thinks you shouldn't call him sir, but hey at least someone in the household outwardly respects him 😭

The rest of the brothers would be very shocked and would actively dissuade you from calling them sir. Asmo especially. Tho I can imagine Mammon and Leviathan being so flustered.

As for the angels, Simeon somewhat understands but gently reminds you to call him by his name. Luke tripped on nothing when he was called sir the first time.

The only one who would really get it is Solomon. But he would actively convince you to call him something more casual instead. Like big brother or whichever honorific for an older man that implies closeness. Call him uncle and he dies a little inside whenever he hears it. He is in utter disbelief.

Once they learn how it all works, it's a race on who gets to the most intimate/affectionate form of honorific first.

For Filipinos, it can go from Sir to Tito (uncle) or Kuya/Manong (big brother). And to take it a step further there's the never-ending terms for best friend (bes, beshie, beb, babs, tol, pare, mare, bff, lab, etc (i swear we come up w something new every year for it))

And then there's also the ultimate form of closeness: bestowing a nickname for them.

At this point, once Asian MC does away with the honorifics and sticks to the nicknames, you could say they're pretty damn close.

This is also the time when they better be afraid when MC calls them by their actual names. You're in biiiiig trouble. What color do you want your casket to be?

"Lulu, did you eat lunch today?"

"..."

"Lucifer, don't make me ask again."

"Shit."

Thank you for coming to my Tedtalk 🦐

[jesncin]

Spirit World nitpick but I do think it matters. Xanthe always refers to John as "Constantine" as if they're contractually obligated to say his surname like it's his registered superhero name when it's just his name. Why can't they ever refer to him as "John"?

A really weird side effect to the superhero-ification of John Constantine and making his surname essentially his hero title is that in stories like this, it accidentally and definitely unintentionally enforces a racist and sexist dynamic to how you refer to other characters in the story. Cassandra Cain is called either "Batgirl" or "Cass", but never "Cain". Xanthe Zhou is called "Xanthe" but never "Zhou". In a story where Johnstantine is the token white guy, it's kinda weird that he's the only one consistently referred to by his surname.

It even continues into the Pride comic the two appeared in. I know it can be argued that Xanthe is referring to John this way because he's older, but it's not consistent with how they've referred to other Asian adult or elder characters in Spirit World. It also makes it harder to buy that John and Xanthe are friends when they're not even on a first name basis. Idk, I think it would be cute if Xanthe had familial honorifics for John in some way or a cultural nickname. Make it fun outside of calling John "old man" all the time. Where's the imagination.

[befuddledcinnamonroll]

Top 10 Things I Love About the QL Tumblr Community 2023

I'm loving everyone's end of year lists, and decided to make up one of my own.

I haven't been on Tumblr for very long and was originally just lurking. 2023 marks the year where I finally started posting, after I read a take that made me feel compelled to come to a fictional character's defense. (Saengtai, my poor little blorbo).

So in commemoration of my first proper year of active tumblring, I present what I love about this community (in no particular order).

(Side note - Technically I know this is still primarily a BL community, but I like to say QL because I am trying to manifest more lesbians for us.)

1) The Gifmakers

Y'all are a good 70% of the reason I joined Tumblr in the first place. There are so many show moments that I want to relive, but without having to search through videos. Sometimes I want to appreciate the aesthetics. Sometimes I want to remember adorable or goofy moments. Sometimes I just want to see cute boys eating each other's faces. Our gifmakers give all of that to us, with the addition of so much creativity and style.

There's too many amazing ones to mention everyone, but I have to shout out @sparklyeyedhimbo, because the way your brain works makes me so happy.

2) The expertise

The other part of why I joined Tumblr was to learn more about what BLs were out there and what I might be missing. And holy hell. Y'all are putting in the work. Not only lists and resources for finding all kinds of QLs, like these fabulous monthly breakdowns by @gunsatthaphan, but also amazing posts that add additional context, like @absolutebl's incredibly helpful breakdown of Asian honorifics. There is so much research people do, for fun! And then they share it!

3) The meta analysis

I frickin love reading people's takes and analyses on series. I love learning, I love seeing perspectives from people with different cultural backgrounds to my own, it's all so fascinating! There's so much context we can miss due to our own privileges, or lack of knowing about various cultures, or due to whatever bubbles we've been living in. People here are just so smart, and nuanced, and willing to reflect and think about things, and also push back at each other, but generally with respect (except when you call out the dumb shit you see, usually on Twitter or TikTok, where people are being reductive and dumb about gender and sexuality).

And I've seen a few takes where people complain about analyses, and say that the director/production doesn't do everything deliberately, and we're all reading too much into it. To which I say, eh, lighten up. How people connect to and relate to media has relevance beyond what was intended. The point is we get to think and discuss and learn and grow. That doesn't happen if we don't analyze.

Special shout out here to @respectthepetty because colors mean things!

4) The wild theories

The other side of the analysis coin, the clown cars y'all drive around in with the wildest of theories. I have happily climbed into an occasional clown car, and usually I am utterly wrong (*cough* Saifah *cough*). But it's a super fun ride. I love seeing how people's brains work. I love it when y'all are wrong. I love it when y'all are right. It's beautiful.

5) Immediate acceptance

I am one of those people who knows that I have a lot of good qualities, and also, always kind of expect rejection. Blame the childhood bullies, I guess. Anyway, whenever I delve into a new space, I still feel like a total dork that no one will want to talk to. It's kind of a fraught way to move through the world, but I manage.

Anyway, I started posting my thoughts as they came up, and people are just totally cool with it. People even follow me sometimes. Even my silliest thoughts and dumbest jokes get at least a couple likes. It's so validating.

And my very silly joke about gay mafia in Kiseki has over 800 likes. I feel very seen.

6) Mutuals

I still kind of can't believe I have any. This ties in to the dork feeling above, but seriously - they are soooo cooooool. They're smart and awesome and funny, and they somehow find me worth following back, which is baffling yet wonderful. I want to squish their faces and give them many kisses (if they're into that kind of thing).

7) The self-exploration

I really appreciate how it's become more talked about how a lot of people are discovering queerness through BL, because that is so the case for me. I think it's both that I was in a bit of a hetero bubble before, and also that I'm evolving a bit as I age. I had figured out I was demi, and maybe a little bit gay, before getting in to BL, but being in this community, and seeing so many of you share so openly and freely, has made me realize it might be more than a little bit.

Either it was a new realization, or being around y'all has made me more gay. Win win, either way.

8) The weirdness

I'm weird. Y'all are weird. I love it.

9) The thirst

So many in this community are thirsty as fuck, and as someone who is in that same condition, I love that it's not just me. There are not many places where I can freely admit how horny I am as a part of my general existence.

Here? I could post about wanting to lick some random BL actor's face, and it would get a bunch of likes and some tags like #lickable, and it's just not remotely a big deal.

Also the gifmakers understand this, and give us beautiful cuts of our spicy scenes. They are genuinely too good for us.

10) The communal watching experience

There is absolutely nothing like watching along with people in the community. It is so worth the torture of having to wait week to week for new episodes. Seeing the show trend, watching the theories fly fast and furious, or the way everyone collectively loses their minds over particular moments. In a world that can feel very isolating, it's a very warm experience.

So there you go. Thank you all for being you. Here's to another year of QL shenanigans and losing our collective minds!