#Alexander historians

[jeannereames]

"There is no one about whom more have written more variously." --Arrian, speaking of Alexander

(...οὐδ᾽ ἔστιν ὑπὲρ ὅτου πλείονες ἢ ἀξυμφωνότεροι ἐς ἀλλήλους... [Anab. 1.1.2])

[ciderbird]

academic bias is so funny because you’ll be reading about the same historical event and one person is like “Despite the troubles that befell his homeland and near constant criticism of the court King Blorbo remained strong in the face of adversity” and the other one is like “after letting his people carry the brunt of his cringefail decisions Blorbo the Shitface refused to listen to any reason and continued to be a warmongering piece of shit. Also he was ugly.”

[icarusbetide]

Reminder that apparently Alexander Hamilton was invited to Thomas Jefferson's for a dinner in a room with portraits of "the three greatest men the world had ever produced": Bacon, Newton, and Locke.

And this little shit heard Jefferson say this, and replied "the greatest man that ever lived was Julius Caesar" probably KNOWING that it would absolutely make Democratic-Common Folk Woodland Nymph Farmer Thomas Jefferson have a stroke.

Happy Ides of March!

he paused for some time: ‘the greatest man, said he, that ever lived was Julius Caesar.'

Jefferson's Letter to Benjamin Rush

[hiidkwhatimdoing7525]

Others: you ship the Founding Fathers??? eww. it's not real! me: no one else was in the room where it happened

[opera-ghosts]

Alexander Glazunov, Leopold Auer, St. Petersburg 1912

[toastytrusty]

top 10 frustrating things is hearing that there's some two dozen surviving hamilton-laurens letters and only having been able to find 18 in my effort to compile them all. need to take extensive notes on every bit of surviving correspondence between them but i can only scrounge up some dates from when other letters that were destroyed were supposed to have been written on. a tragedy really

[selfproclaimed-historian]

I’m a historian; of course I dream about late-night conversations with George Washington and Alexander Hamilton.

[wylanzahn]

Oh also are there any historians on here who have specific studies in Ancient Macedonia? I have the idea for a really cool series.

[waifu-napoleon]

[jeannereames]

If you could change or insert one aspect of the common pop culture picture most people have in their heads when they think about ATG what would it be?

I'm going to jump this in the queue because I can answer it swiftly, but also because I have TWO things that are personal pet peeves.

FIRST: That "historians" keep insisting Alexander and Hephaistion were "just good friends" in the face of obvious evidence to the contrary.

SECOND: Alexander called Hephaistion his Patroklos (to his own Achilles), and they used this comparison frequently throughout their lives.

So, let’s take on the “Fake News,” shall we?

The notion that "historians" keep insisting Alexander and Hephaistion were "just good friends" in the face of what would seem clear evidence to the contrary is over 50 fucking years out of date.

Are there “historians” out there who say that? Sure. But they tend to come in two flavors: 1) people who aren’t specialists, Hellenists, or even historians,⸸ or 2) Greeks.* Since Badian, Green, Hamilton, and Schachermeyer (et al.) took over Macedonian/Alexander studies mid-century, few specialists claimed Alexander and Hephaistion couldn’t have been lovers, or Alexander couldn’t have been attracted to men. Even Hammond cagily acknowledged it.

Yet—TBH—I don't think those who repost that meme really care. They just want a convenient strawman/whipping horse to make them sound "smarter than the experts."

You don't. You sound as if you haven't read much about Alexander since about 1975. Historians who have died of old age by now said Alexander and Hephaistion were probably lovers.

But that raises another problem: the implication that anybody who might argue they aren't lovers must be an old, white homophobic dude. Again, this is wrong.

The current discussion centers more on source problems, and separates Alexander having male lovers from Alexander and Hephaistion being lovers themselves (not the same thing, actually). Those making the best argument for caution are young, very much not homophobic (but absolutely brilliant) women (e.g., Sabine Müller). Follow the link to see a picture of Sabine, if you don’t believe me. I don't agree with her, but you can't shoot down her argument by screaming "Homophobe!" at the top of your lungs. The points she raises are all good ones and any responsible (and smart) historian will take them seriously.

As for the Alexander-Achilles/Hephaistion-Patroklos pastiche… yeah, sorry, no.

I realize this torques off folks, as it’s become a mainstay of queer culture surrounding Alexander as a gay icon and owes more than a little to Miller’s The Song of Achilles.

Busting it probably makes me sound like a Grinch.

BUT…the facts just don't support it. Yes, Alexander compared himself to Achilles--but not as much as to Herakles and Dionysos. Not even close.

How do I know? I COUNTED THEM. Facts ... not impressions.

After all, looking closely at what the sources (not impressions) actually say about Hephaistion is how I came to the conclusion the man was a lot more important than heretofore recognized. 😉

Again, as I’ve said elsewhere, Alexander did compare himself to Achilles. That’s not in dispute … it just wasn’t as frequent or common as modern fans like to pretend. And Hephaistion was compared to Patroklos only twice. There’s also a problem with WHO made those comparisons: chiefly Arrian. Again, I’ve talked about this elsewhere, so won’t go over it again.

Yes, I made the comparison myself in Dancing with the Lion: Becoming. But it concerned one circumstance near that book’s end (not giving spoilers), and isn’t something they harped on otherwise. That mirrors how it appears in our sources: it’s limited, and situational.

“Patroklos” was not Hephaistion’s nickname. Wish folks would stop claiming it was.

—————

⸸ Just because somebody is tagged “historian” on a History Channel special—or his own private blog—doesn’t mean they actually have a PhD, or even a Master’s, much less one in ancient history, Classics, Classical archaeology, or ancient art history. The number of idiots on Tik-tok yapping about how Alexander thought this or did that—and clearly know jack shit—routinely stuns me…even while it doesn’t. Dunning-Kruger Effect all over the damn place.

* Greeks must often work within the confines of official narratives in order to secure jobs and funding, which can limit what they say on certain topics, from who’s buried in “Philip’s Tomb,” to the Greekness of the ancient Macedonians, to any possible homosexual “taint” staining Alexander’s greatness. This may swim against the current of academic discourse outside Greece, even by other Greeks. The Greek Ministry of Culture and Sport has softened on some of these topics in recent years, especially as LGBTQIA rights have gained better traction in Greece.

[ciderbird]

you know considering how many clinically insane takes on history I’ve already seen I’m surprised no one wrote a paper on Alexander I’s sexuality yet. Like Napoleon has a whole book trying to prove he’s bi but Alexander “religious guilt” Romanov who doesn’t have any kids, keeps platonic relationships with nearly all his ‘mistresses’ and is routinely described as effeminate is supposed to be straight? Like there should be at least some sort of discussion about this

[yr-obedt-cicero]

In the final paragraph Hamilton explained that he was about to give the letter to “Betsey to add whatever her little affectionate heart may dictate.” The phrase “little affectionate heart” (my italics) could be seen as a term of endearment, but it also invited a different reading; Elizabeth's “little affectionate heart” was not like the heart of her sister;

Or maybe,

Just maybe,

It was a term of endearment.

[icarusbetide]

if you could have any smaller historical blorbo reach the same heights of visibility and popularity but arguably the same amount of misunderstanding and extreme idolization/villainization as alexander hamilton, who would you pick?

[waitingforminjae]

just remembered alexander hamilton had a grandson named after john laurens who ALSO died tragically young in the army omg

[opera-ghosts]

Alexander Pirogov - Le veau d'or (Charles Gounod, "Faust")

Pirogov came from a family that boasted five sons. Four of them became singers, including Alexander's famous older brother, Grigori, also a bass. While the boys' father and grandfather both had fine voices, neither had pursued a professional career. At 15, Alexander's youthful voice simply disappeared one day. Although he was teased about the loss by his friends, his teacher insisted that someday Alexander would be singing at the Bolshoi. After the voice returned, Pirogov entered Moscow University and took singing classes at the Philharmonic School in Moscow. Following a period spent with a choral ensemble, he was engaged by the Zimin Free Opera in Moscow where, in two years time (1922 - 1924), he learned his craft and gained familiarity with several leading roles. In 1924, Pirogov was invited to join the Bolshoi. Soon he was heard as Gremin, Ivan Susanin, the Old Miller, Russlan, and Ivan the Terrible from the Russian repertory, in addition to such leading characters in Western opera as Don Basilio and Méphistophélès. The last named he reportedly learned in just two weeks. In 1929, Pirogov was honored by being assigned the title role in Boris Godunov; thereafter he was known as an unsurpassed interpreter of this mightiest of all Russian protagonists.

Establishing a reputation for hard work and meticulous attention to detail, Pirogov continued to sharpen and refine his interpretations. He arrived at the theater early, applying his makeup and stepping into costume long before he was summoned to the stage. Although many stories suggest an imperious presence in his personal affairs, others paint another portrait, revealing a friendly and outgoing approach toward his colleagues. Although he retired from the Bolshoi in 1954, Pirogov was the choice for Boris when the opera was filmed in 1955. He had already been awarded the Stalin Prize for his performance of the role and accompanied the film to Venice for the international film festival held there. Although the film was not a prizewinner, the Italian film academy struck a special medal to honor the singer.

After 1954, Pirogov spent most of his time in his native city, traveling to Moscow only for occasional appearances on-stage and in concert. When the Bolshoi was invited to La Scala in 1964, Pirogov was selected to sing Boris. However, after fishing in his beloved Oka River on a particularly hot day in late June, he returned home and retired for a nap. Awakening with chest pains in the middle of the night, he sent his son for a doctor, but by the time the physician arrived, the bass was already dead. Thus, Pirogov was denied the possibility of one final triumph.

[girlspecimen]

there is something so wonderfully horny seeming about biographers talking about their favorite historical figure of interest. one of the expert biographers of ho chi minh they have speaking in this documentary keeps talking about how as a young man he had like an "air of intensity" and "dark, sharp eyes that seemed to bore into the soul" lololol