#AND THEN GO AND SAY SHE'S ONLY EVIL????????????????

[freyjasrage]

Or they see it as a way to end the 2 party system that y'all say you hate.

Or the only way they'll vote is if it's something they have some sort of control over and not having to diminish themselves once again in their life. (Is this the privilege y'all are talking about)?

The people who actually give a fuck but vote 3rd party or not at all are not the enemy btw. Maybe use that energy elsewhere instead of alienating people who want to see change.

(Also a lot of 3rd party ppl are out there doing community service and healping the homeless more than the people on the internet calling them fascists for not voting blue. Just because you donate to a charity does not mean you are better than them).

Voting for the lesser evil has been around for decades so of course people are going to reject it. It also allows the Democrat party to do whatever they want as well as they keep moving more and more to the right. That should concern you a lot more.

"Blue no matter who" is pretty insidious. I mean just look at its effects right now.

Harris has repeatedly said she will continue to fund and support Israel. She has laughed at people wanting the genocide to end. It's going to continue under her, stop thinking it won't. "No but we can totally convince her!" No you won't. She's also already talking about how they can profit from rebuilding there as well, it's sick.

[genderkoolaid]

Can you explain a sentence from your bio? "To create loving males, you must love males"? I don't understand that sentence, because like does that work for all oppressive groups? "To create loving white people, we must love white people" or "to create loving straight people, we must love straight people". That doesn't make much sense to me, especially since women do this all the time. Women always make excuses for men's behavior, give them the benefit of the doubt, are empathetic and sensitive to men and make tons of posts on the internet about male positivity and yet men still commit 80-90% of violent crimes (from what I remember). And I'm not trying to argue or anything, it's a genuine question. How is being kind to men going to bring about the collective liberation of women from the patriarchy?

So this quote needs to be understood in the context of both the book it comes from (The Will to Change: Men, Masculinity, and Love) and bell hooks' philosophy of love in general. Here's the full paragraph it comes from:

“Only a revolution of values in our nation will end male violence, and that revolution will necessarily be based on a love ethic. To create loving men, we must love males. Loving maleness is different from praising and rewarding males for living up to sexist-defined notions of male identity. Caring about men because of what they do for us is not the same as loving males for simply being. When we love maleness, we extend our love whether males are performing or not. Performance is different from simply being. In patriarchal culture males are not allowed simply to be who they are and to glory in their unique identity. Their value is always determined by what they do. In an antipatriarchal culture males do not have to prove their value and worth. They know from birth that simply being gives them value, the right to be cherished and loved.”

People often see this quote or another one and assume a lot about bell hooks' point here, but The Will to Change includes her own experiences of abuse by men and her experiences with misogyny, alongside her observations about how men in her life experienced patriarchal abuse. She is not ignorant of the harms done to women when she says this.

My personal interpretation of her words is this:

The patriarchal expectations relating to how women are expected to "love" men is very different than what bell hooks means to love. Her concept of love requires self-love and self-care, and not being a doormat or adopting a "I can singlehandedly fix that incel by being nice to him!" mindset.

And, equally, how we are taught to "love" men is not good for men either. The patriarchy promises love to men in exchange for appropriate performance of dominance. It says that there are "real men" and "fake men" and only real men are deserving of love. It says that men must be constantly fighting each other, women, and queers in order to be deserving of love and escape punishment. bell hooks' argument is that we as feminists need to see inherent worth in men as people, and reject those patriarchal notions of what makes men worthy as well as the doomerist radfem impulse to label all men as evil and sever all connection forever. Men are people, and women are people, and we are all people in society together, and we always will be, so we need to be able to work together to create loving communities. Whether men are your friends, lovers, relatives, neighbors, patients, students, etc. you do live in a society with them!!! And we (intersectional / revolutionary feminism) cannot win without them. Not just as quiet allies on the side but as meaningful co-conspirators, fellow feminists with just as much a stake in the fight as any woman.

You can read this short chapter of one of her books where she explores love ethic in politics specifically relating to race.

[medusas-daughter]

I know it's kind of become the consensus and it's a fun theory but it makes no sense to me and I need to talk about it. Agatha was not killing witches to avoid death, she was doing it for power in the hopes that enough power coupled with the darkhold would cloak her from death because she didn't want to see Rio's face or have to forgive her she wanted to stay angry. Lilia has lived over 450 years without killing anyone. Jen has live 100 years without any magic and who know how many years before that. When Billy googled Agatha there were pages on the screen that say that witch don't die of natural causes and choose the age they want to appear as. Agatha could have stayed alive with the darkhold for a long long time. She chose to lure and kill those witches for power for her own gain.

And for Nicky, the whole "distracting Rio with bodies" is just silly. People die every day, every second, she's constantly reaping someone. She's Lady Death if she needs to take someone there's no distracting her. Either Nicky needed to feed off death because of Rio's parentage or Agatha was hoping to accumulate enough power to cloak him from Rio permanently or both. The day he refused killing and said "his mother is expecting him", either he was done feeding off the dead and wanted to join Rio's realm forever, or he was physically sick and in pain and tired so that was his way of telling both Agatha and Rio that he was ready to die and that's how Rio knew to take him, she waited until he was ready (something she never does with anyone).

The one time Rio offered Agatha a deal of one life for another is with Billy, and that's because Billy's magic is powerful enough to let him escape Rio and reincarnate indefinitely. So he has to go willingly. Rio could have had a talk with Billy about the order of things but she chose to involve Agatha. She wants Agatha to be the one to deliver Billy to her because she noticed she loves Billy. And if Agatha can deliver a boy she loves to Death, that means she will have finally understood that Death is not a punishment just the cycle of life and she will have forgiven Rio. She banked on Agatha wanting to stay alive but she was not expecting Agatha asking to never see her face. That's when Rio lashed out. Because after all those centuries she still won't forgive her for doing her job. And that's when she started tormenting her and giving her the ultimatum, either her or Billy.

I'm sure Agatha thought she was manipulating Death all this time, because she can be delulu about her power sometimes. And Rio probably thought it was funny in the beginning that this baby witch thinks she's manipulating a being as old as time. But Rio was never going to kill her, just like she never kills anyone. And if offerings of bodies were enough to stay alive, all serial killers would be immortal. Rio was just collecting her bodies and having a blast with her wife until the party ended and suddenly her job no longer seemed fun to Agatha because it went against her wishes. And suddenly this being she loved became evil in her eyes. And then Agatha acquired the Darkhold and Rio couldn't even see her anymore she could only trace her by the bodies she left.

[dvilsdesire]

// Something that I find very curious about Raphael. It appears that most devils don't seem to wear a lot of clothes, or to say, their armour is still pretty revealing. Understandable in places like Avernus where it's likely very hot, but even in pics we see in places like Cania, the Cold Lord Mephisto still doesn't appear to wear a whole lot of clothes (usually shirtless, or skin showing still). Then there are those devils that don't even REQUIRE clothes (or maybe they just wear loincloths).

Raphael, even in cambion form (since his clothes don't change), seems rather conservative compared to other devils we see. Dressed fully, clothes that cover almost every inch of him save for his face and hands. Even when he DOES get "armour", it's ridiculous little knee guards and around his hips. Armour that isn't really covering a lot, perhaps because devils just don't make suits of entire armour so he made do with what he had?

The cambions at the start of the game in the Nautaloid are bared skin, Yurgir has bared skin, I suppose we could also go off Karlach's clothes as well, which has bare skin (since she was a soldier of Avernus). Mizora, a cambion, DOES wear a dress that definitely covers most of her body, but even Mizora is sexualised, with the open leg seems and her breasts being revealed (because of course devils are supposed to be alluring).

Obviously Raphael enjoys the sight of himself in skimpy clothes, otherwise I doubt Haarlep would be dressed in that little leather harness we see. Even more curious, what if Haarlep wears these things because Raphael can't? He likes to SEE himself in them, but maybe he doesn't have the confidence to do it himself?

Also obviously Raphael is playing an act in the sense that he likely feels more appropriately dressed before Tav etc, and looks smart compared to the whole 'evil devil' look.

I just find it curious. Just another little Raph being dramatic and so very Raphael in his theatrical attire. Looking proper and prim, because he obviously loves himself so much and must look pretty for his clients. Perhaps Raphael is very "there's a time and a place"?

I just find it fascinating, and I bet other devils look at his attire and roll their eyes. Raphael, the outcast, always doing things differently to stand out from his own kind. Perhaps it's entirely a status thing as well? Maybe it's a message? Who knows! I just found it interesting that Raphael is one of the only devils that seems to dress extremely conservatively (maybe he's not as confident as we all believe him to be after all?).

I have a LOT of Raphael thoughts lately >.< and they are eating at me from the inside, I'm trying to hold them in but they're starting to just burst from the seams lol.

[phosphosuppmain]

I was writing this in the tags but I fear it's too long and important for that.

FUCK YES I NEED MORE PEOPLE TO BE AWARE OF HOW VIOLENTLY COMPLICIT CURLY IS IN ALL THIS. yes of course he's also a victim of Jimmy but if ANYONE ELSE (maybe not Daisuke-) was in his position THEY WOULD HAVE TAKEN FUCKING ACTION AGAINST HIM.

Curly knows what Jimmy did. He knows how wrong it is. And what does he do? Well Jimmy is STILL part of the crew, STILL co-pilot, STILL in the same room as Anya, stood beside her like nothing is wrong. Curly did nothing.

Don't get me wrong I am a massive fan of Curly for real but I DESPERATELY NEED PEOPLE TO KNOW HE IS NOT A GOOD PERSON.

Ok apologies for the excessive all caps lemme get serious a moment- if I can I'm on a bus and shaking and freezing cold. Anyway.

Curly has had every opportunity to take appropriate action against Jimmy but he hasn't, he also had the opportunity at the BEGINNING of their journey to not let Daisuke be on the ship. Daisuke didn't want to be there, the ship was built to cater for 4 not 5, all signs point to Daisuke Shouldn't Be There. But he is. Why? His parents wanted him to... But why do they have more say?

I feel it's because Curly is a fucking chronic people pleaser. Which me too babes but I'm not letting evil people get away with evil deeds. He wants to make everyone happy, but that's not possible in this situation. He makes Jimmy happy by letting him continue to be rotten and sacrifices Anya's happiness because she Seems Fine. It's only when she comes to him and tells him she's pregnant that he wants to take action against Jimmy- and even then Jimmy is the one who takes action because Curly is too much of a wuss to do anything. He doesn't want to hurt anyone.

And in not wanting to hurt anyone, everyone in the ship except him dies.

Of course he might die in the cryo pod, if nobody finds him or his injuries kill him or whatever but he's got a solid 20 years for someone to find him. And considering there was like a year or two or whatever left until the ship was meant to arrive at its destination it's likely someone would send a search party. And considering how much Anya cared for him it's unlikely he would die from his injuries- or else he would already be dead.

From memory there isn't overly much going on between Curly and Swansea but again I'm freezing my tits off in a crowded bus so do not take my memory to be good in this moment ahsbsh- BUT I do wanna touch on Swansea because he's so fucking well written it makes me cry.. I think with all his faults Swansea is the most merciful of the crew members. Including his lost sobriety and rage and constant axe wielding- he's a great red herring fo sho- ANYWAY he's a better man than everyone else on the ship and uh I hate the fact that the fandom neglects him quite a bit yet kinda idolises Curly Ty for coming to my ted talk I need a blanket and some food effective immediately.

I love the way that Mouthwashing uses Jimmy and Curly taking turns as the perspective character to make their actions not just parallel to each other, but hopelessly, disgustingly inseperable. The clear picture it paints us of how Curly enables Jimmy and how Jimmy guilts Curly into further enabling him. They both avoid responsibility when it really counts-- Curly through shows of appeasement and Jimmy through shifting the blame to someone else.

[handageddon]

I think the big issue with the way that schemas/attachment disorders/idk probably other psychiatry things is that it's like.

Worded as

Well the patient will be "afraid" to form connections, they will "avoid" emotions, do all those EVIL BAD PERSON behaviors because they are afraid of abandonment or being hurt. So these "professionals" will try to trigger that response only like. My whole thing is that I'm not afraid of these relationships or actively avoiding them I just literally do not know how to do that. But it's like... well we need to work on your avoidance. You say you would go on walks but would never talk to any classmates... like bro they were avoiding ME. I was very unpleasant to be around, because children are self centered and think they are the ones being victimized when someone else is being abused. I was just minding my own business.

I don't have a bad evil BPD meltdown when it's brought up that I will never see my mom again because my life is functionally the same, and emotionally better off without her. Even recently as up to this year I would come across something and want to share it with her because she is my mom and I love her. But as a source of support or comfort I lost nothing. As a source of stress I felt a positive sense of loss. And so I don't get triggered when these people try to play games with me like... oh Val we will never have another therapy session again! And I'm just like, 👍. Started from nothing, gone back to nothing, lost nothing. And then they try to schedule another appointment.

I just need simple advice on how. How, how, how. I can't do literally any of the shit they say that's ripped off the front page of Google because I just don't know how. I'm not being defiant or disobedient when I question what they mean, I'm just insecure. I simply know from experience, lots and lots of experience, that I'm doing everything wrong somehow.

I'm just a circuit that's stuck open, and every experience in my life has been a terminal short, a burnt trace, or a vengeful break in the line. And I can't get started because I don't have the resources to close at any point. "OH but that's just learned helplessness, not actual trauma." Yes, but the dogs in those experiences still needed external help to undo their "not actual trauma"

I don't respect mallows hierarchy of needs because how am I supposed to have a safe and meaningful sex life if I don't have self actualization. I don't respect that comic of the guy pretending he's stuck in a jail cell because I'm not in a prison, I'm in an oubliette, and when I try to walk out I get thrown back in. And then the guards get mad at me because they have to spend all their time keeping me in here? SMH my head.

[stupditysholy]

I have to get this off my chest because the amount of Curly love on tik tok actually stresses me out and I’ll tell you why:

So to my understanding having experienced the game multiple times, Curly absolutely fails to advocate for/help Anya. She hides the gun to keep it away from Jim because Curly will not allow her to protect herself. He straight up calls her crazy to her face, too: “You never had to get psych evals like the rest of us. I should’ve known” or something along those lines. When Curly confronts Jim before Jim crashes the ship, he doesn’t say ANYTHING in defense of Anya, instead consoling Jim that they would figure it out, and he’d been in rough spots before.

For all intents and purposes, Curly does not see that Jim has done something inexcusable, and rather he has made a series of mistakes. He does not for one single moment consider how Anya’s life has been permanently altered, how her autonomy has been entirely stolen from her.

Until he experiences it himself.

Curly being reduced to a mostly immobile spring sausage is his way of experiencing the pain he allowed to be inflicted upon Anya, full stop. Even more ironic? Anya can’t bare to give him his pain killers, so he is left completely at Jim’s mercy, a fun-house mirror of how Curly could not bare to hold his friend accountable, and therefore left Anya at Jim’s mercy pre-crash.

Curly only becomes Jim’s victim because he allows Anya’s victimization to go on unchecked. He thought he was exempt from Jim’s abuse, and that is his biggest mistake.

Also, I have to say the idea that Curly get’s rescued and lives happily ever after does the narrative no justice. In fact, it completely undermines Jim’s entire character arc. Curly living happily ever after would, in some sense, redeem a little of Jim’s character—redemption he did not remotely earn because he did NOT take responsibility. At all.

Jim putting Curly in the pod at the end is no act of mercy. It’s actually the worst and most selfish thing he could have done. It’s the exact freaking opposite of taking responsibility. When he has his big talk with Polle before the very end, he is spouting complete and utter bullshit. Why?

The crash and Curly are NOT the things he is supposed to be taking responsibility for. The thing he is supposed to be taking responsibility for is ANYA’S TORMENT. That is the thing which started all of this, which lead to the crash, which fried Curly. That is the inciting incident.

That’s the freaking irony!

Anya get’s completely and utterly forgotten in this moment. In my opinion, this is why Polle says:

If all of that is true… why are you still so concerned with him?

Because right before that, Jim is about to say “Our worst moments don’t make us monsters.”

And Polle knows, then, in that moment, that when Jim thinks of his worst moments, he thinks of the accident, what happened to Curly, rather than the immeasurable pain he inflicted on Anya PURPOSEFULLY. Jim completely fucking ignores his worst moment, and that DOES make him a monster.

So when Jim puts Curly in that pod, not only is he righting the WRONG wrong, but he is actively choosing to believe this is what it means to take responsibility. He is making his amends to a man he accidentally hurt rather than the person who suffered the most at his hand.

It’s also pretty evil of Jim to put him in there because he knows: a good captain goes down with his ship. He makes Curly out to be a selfish and pitiful. He may even be setting him up for failure depending on how the authorities reason out what happened.

I just think at the end of the day Jim is the villian of the story, and Curly is a freaking bystander. Obviously post-crash this is inevitable, but that’s almost funny—not gonna do anything to stop him, Curly? Guess what, now you don’t even have a freaking choice.

Anyway please stop glazing the spaghetti man you can love his complexity but he is not a good guy or uwu cutie pie. He sucks. Straight up.

Feel free to start discourse in the comments I’m okay with being wrong about him I guess I just don’t think I am.

[bambi-kinos]

I've heard Paul say that Linda and John have something in common. What do you think about this ? What's the difference between Paul's love for Linda and his love for John?

Paul likes people who are good at getting what they want. John had that in spades, Linda lied her way into being a photographer, even Heather Mills was good at that since she had to bounce back from losing her leg. That is probably one of the big things Linda and John had in common, they wanted to live their lives on their own terms. Paul is someone who would have lived his life completely on rails until he found John so that's a quality he would admire immensely.

I think Linda, John and Heather also did something that no one else in Paul's life was willing to do: they validated his anger. John said "your father is fucking awful let's get the fuck out of here." Linda said "your bandmates are fucking awful let's get the fuck out of here."

When it comes to Heather, there's a few articles from that era talking about how Paul is visibly angrier than usual and it brings to mind this quote from Brian:

Paul is endowed with an immense talent, he hides a great inner tenderness and a formidable sensitivity under angry outside. In my opinion, it is the one that most appeals to strangers, autograph hunters, fans and even other artists. He has a beautiful smile and a formidable enthusiasm that he uses, not to be laughed at, but because he knows that these are assets that can make people around him happy.

...Therefore, I do not take into account his mood swings and hold him in high esteem. I would not want to lose his friendship under any circumstances.” - Brian Epstein, A Cellarful of Noise, 1964.

It's interesting that Brian saw an angry outside to Paul when we would not call Paul angry. But Brian saw more than most and saw Paul's rough side and tl;dr I think that's what Brian is referencing here. I think that Heather Mills saw that in Paul and said "stop acting like you're not an angry person, why are you repressing this?"

Linda had a saying for Paul as well: "it's allowed." She didn't judge him for having feelings. When Paul was starting out with John, John didn't judge him for having feelings either.

I think the difference between Paul's love for Linda and his love for John is that Paul trusted Linda more. John was someone that Paul loved deeply but by the time Linda came along, Paul could only safely love John from a distance. The LSD hysteria, the heroine, the Yoko shit, it was all too much and Paul couldn't keep standing next to the blast furnace. Who fucking would? It's not fair but the addict's lot in life is to drive away everyone who loves them until they are alone.

Linda was someone more worldly and she already survived a failed marriage. John at that point was prone to severe mood swings and hysterical outbursts; Linda notably was not. When you're in Paul's situation and you see a sane person who isn't calling himself Jesus Christ reborn and who isn't trying to foist some weird avante garde artist on you? You cling to that lifeboat. Linda wasn't going to stab Paul in the back for money, she wasn't going to call Paul's lawyer racial slurs, she didn't bitch and whine that everyone was an evil racist that was trying to stop her from being with her twoo wuv. Linda in many ways was very similar to pre-drug addiction John Lennon: she knew what she wanted and she went after it.

Paul was able to love her up close because he trusted her more and because she demonstrated that he could trust her. Paul did love John but it was something he did at a distance which frankly was the only thing he could possibly do. John was a black hole of vanity and selfishness that was dragging everyone down with him which is why George got out while he could and Ringo made sure to live far away.

Part of John and Paul coming back together would have included John getting sober and proving that he could stay sober, that he was committed to sobriety for sobriety's sake, and that he wasn't going to go off the rails trying to sabotage Paul's career while Paul was trying to provide for his children. Otherwise Paul should have and would have kept a distance and refused to commit to anything interesting. I think Paul learned his lesson when he showed up to the Dakota and John turned him away saying "you can't just show up like its Liverpool in the 1950s."

That's another key difference between Paul loving Linda and loving John. Linda actually wanted Paul around, John didn't. Paul loved Linda actively and loved John passively.

[kiyomitakada]

impromptu meta at 2 — oh wait 1 in the morning thank you daylight saving time

the thing about light yagami is that we all know he is repression incarnate. and we also know that kira was born out of his desperate need to justify sort-of-accidentally killing two people. and so therefore kira isn't what light's repressing, not at the outset; kira is an extension of his repression.

and the death note and his need to hide it very quickly takes over light's life. so it's easy to say that light is light yagami on the outside and kira on the inside, and maybe light feels that way. but. kira is just as much a persona as light yagami. a more hidden persona, but still not the real him, whoever that is.

and the thing is that no one sees past that. ever. most people obviously fall for the charming boy act, but even the detectives — L, near, mello — god, even ryuk stops at part two. i think a lot about how L set up the mock execution because he thought that kira would have killed his own father if necessary. can you see light doing that? eighteen-year-old light yagami who said "if anything happens to you, dad — i'll see that kira gets the death penalty. i swear it."? remember when ryuk laughs at how good an actor he is afterwards and light doesn't look at him?

light never thinks kira is evil. even in yotsuba arc he acknowledges that they think very similarly, just that kira has gone too far. (ha, ha.) for all of death note light yagami is light yagami, who says if kira wins then kira is good, who has convinced himself he is doing the right thing. he gets frustrated when other people don't perceive him the same way — lind l tailor, misa killing police chiefs while pretending to be kira — but the anger has nowhere to go other than murdering more people.

light yagami is kira is light yagami. but L, ryuk, everyone doesn't manage to see through kira in the end.

and after L dies, well. no one will ever measure up to L, in light's eyes. he almost idolizes him in the weirdest way possible. so maybe, he thinks, if the only person in the world who could ever possibly see all of him (this isn't true, it's just what light believes) thought he was just a murderer, then maybe —

i think he hollows himself out in the second arc. in the anime he seriously considers killing sayu; in the manga he never does that but justifies his unwillingness to himself by saying that this way soichiro and light won't come under suspicion (they weren't going to in the first place). light doesn't really have a sense of self. L said he was evil and of course L is wrong — was wrong — will always be wrong — but isn't it easy to play into that stereotypically evil image of himself? especially after soichiro, his last moral compass, dies: isn't it easy to nullify misa's memories, to say she's not intelligent enough to be my partner, to kill kiyomi in the most painful way possible?

("light would have done the same things in the first arc!" sure. but not with that much callousness.)

it's just. it's tragic, you know? light has always pretended to be nicer than he is but he isn't the cold any-means-necessary person they thought kira was either. he is constantly playing someone he thinks he is but he can never escape being light, in the end.

does this make any sense do i sound insane

[shutupineedtothink]

More ep 8 + 9 thoughts, in no particular order:

Rio looks at Agatha the way Agatha looks at other people when they say something angry or misunderstood or untrue about her — mainly, hurt. It’s fine, I’m fine. By not accepting her nature, Agatha’s doing the exact same thing to Rio that people have been doing to her for centuries and if that ain’t trauma i don’t know what is.

I’ve heard people say it was out of character for Rio to go all evil witch in ep 8, but I think it was a choice. She was so hurt by the deal Agatha wanted from her to never see her again, she said you know what, fine. You think I’m evil? I’ll be evil. Let’s play. But even as she puts on this show she’s saying things like I’m the natural order of all things and you love me, and why don’t you want me? And again, this is an Agatha move. Putting on the show of the evil witch to hide her pain underneath. Calls back to ep 1 too, when she says I can’t kill you, but I can make you wish you were dead.

I tend to kill my coven members. So do I. — That boy and Agatha are mirrors what did I tell you. 🙌🏼

I still can’t quite wrap my head around what she was thinking when she tried to give him up to Rio. Did she see him start to turn himself in and know that that’s what Rio needed him to do, so she changed to her evil side to make him second guess himself? Or did she genuinely think screw this in that moment and then changed her mind? I don’t know, and I don’t think we’re supposed to know, and that’s really interesting actually.

And Billy! Basically manipulates her into sacrificing herself for him using Nicky! My dude you really aren’t that nice. In that sense… he really got all of them killed.

I say more about this in my general show overview post which is coming soon, but once I was able to let go of where I thought Agatha should go as a character, I realized a couple things: a) her journey isn’t over, so this wasn’t supposed to feel like a complete arc and b) I think the point of her character is that you just can’t pin her down in one category or another. She’s not fully evil, she’s definitely not good but she can make good choices, she’s not a complete villain but she’s not a hero or anti-hero either. She’s truly unique in the MCU in that sense. And interestingly, it seems like Billy is going in a similar direction. We’ll see.

So Agatha is the “maiden mother crone” of the last episode right? We’ve now seen her in all three stages, she was the mother up until she died and now is the crone as a ghost playing the Guide to Billy. I’m gonna go with that.

There’s a .2 second look of pain on Agatha’s face when Rio tells her Lilia is dead. That’s when she found out. She does care about them, she’s just definitely not going to show it in front of anyone else.

Lots of great line repetitions in these last two eps (covenless witch, get used to this feeling, etc), but one I could have used again was Rio’s “te veo” — she does say the line about watching Agatha just as closely as you watch everyone else, which was great. But idk I wanted that to come back one more time.

See my previous post for my Nicky thoughts but it seems like the more discourse comes out the more we all agree that is Rio’s child just as much as Agatha’s. The question then becomes, was he just created from their love and magic, or for some other reason? Personally I would love to see more play out with Nicky and him possibly being “a demon, or an agent of Mephisto” and that’s why Agatha can’t face him. She needed more time to figure out how to change his fate but she couldn’t. It’s almost a Bucky/winter soldier situation, but instead of hydra it’s literally the Marvel god of the underworld controlling him. There’s a movie in there somewhere for sure. (MCU witch movie??)

The music banged in these eps especially the choral opening to ep 9, so cool.

Am I the only one wondering why Agatha is RunNInG when she’s in labor? Like where’s she going, who’s she running from? Just an interesting opening.

It’s Agatha All Along in several ways: Agatha (and Nicky) originated the ballad, Agatha used the ballad to kill witches for centuries, she was telling the truth all along about the road not existing, she was the one who bound Jen, and she knew all along it was Billy who made the road. Not exactly the character transformation I was gunning for, but I see the vision now.

The Peggy Carter cosplay I live 🤌

I still don’t think Agatha outright intentionally killed Alice. I still think she either genuinely didn’t have control in that moment, or Billy subconsciously made her do it to make her the villain. (Edit, Jac basically confirmed option 1)

I LOVE that she’s a conwoman. It makes so much sense for her character and even in a more genuinely evil context I love a con.

Agatha says she was going to kill them in her basement on day 1, but Lilia stopped them. If they didn’t attack her, would she have found another way to take their power? Idk but it seems more to me like she’s just trying to make Billy feel better.

I’m itching for more, but I do love the emotional moment between them in the basement at the end. Agatha lets just a little bit of her true feelings peek through, and Billy gets a little perspective as well.

Ok, I’ve now listened to the full 3.5 hour House of R pod on the finale, including their interview with Jac Schaeffer, and she confirmed a lot of my thoughts here so. Nice.

OMG Jac said this thing about the Road being Agatha’s lie that Billy made real and I got CHILLS

I’m expecting some baller fan edits for this show now that it’s over absolutely can’t wait

I could probably say more, and if I think of more stuff I’ll add it in comments. But also look out for that full show review post.

[sorinethemastermind]

Deepest Depths (1/4)

In which Callum hatches a plan that will save them all, but doom himself. And Soren decides to save him from that doom at his own expense. Blame @adashulaz for this angsty mess of a fic.

 “There is another option.” Callum says, and hopeful faces turn to him from every corner of the table. But the optimism in their eyes dies as soon as he brings out the unicorn’s horn and sets it on the table. Soren himself shivers, knowing now what those can do. And the blood that was spilled to wrest it from Aaravos’ grasp.

 “Callum.” Rayla says, voice hollow. “People died.”

 “And that’s exactly why we should use it.” he says, earnest. Desperate. “So that their sacrifices mean something. We all know what Aaravos is capable of now. What he’s really capable of. With this-” he hefts the horn again, offering it to the table. Several people flinch away. “-I could cast a spell to get rid of him. For good, this time.”

 “The spell that killed Avizandum.” Ezran says, voice ringing through the silence that had descended as soon as Callum finished speaking. “That’s how this started. It’s not how we’re going to end it. That spell is evil.”

 “It could kill Aaravos, permanently. Isn’t that what we’re trying to do?” Callum argued, turning on his brother. Soren hated to see them fight like this, especially when they needed each other most.

 “Yes, but I’m not going to let us become monsters to do it.” Ezran told his brother.

 “So you’re calling King Harrow a monster?”

 It was like a slap in the face to the young king, and Soren knew that Callum would regret it later. He stepped forward, putting himself physically between them before things could escalate anymore than they already had. 

 “Let’s all just cool it.” he said, arms out, forcing them both to step back.

 Rayla backed him up, placing a gentle hand on Callum’s shoulder. “This isn’t going to help anything.” she murmured in his ear, quiet enough that Soren only barely heard her. The mage deflated somewhat, shoving the unicorn horn back into his satchel.

 “I’m just saying we should consider it.”

 “No.” Ezran said with a shake of his head. “I won’t.”

 “Fine.” Callum snapped. He turned and stalked off, and after a moment Rayla followed, casting an apologetic glance over her shoulder at Ezran. The young king turned away, unable to look at either of them. Things had been strained between them since Runaan, even without this.

 Once the pair of them had gone, Ezran resumed the meeting; acting as though the conversation had never happened. Everyone followed his lead, unable to do much else, though Soren caught a few anxious glances passing around the room. More than the castle was crumbling, he thought. Their resolve was too. They could only take so much more of this before it broke entirely. Callum and Ezran needed to be working together instead of against each other.

 To that end, he went to find the High Mage once the meeting had adjourned; no more fruitful than any of the others they had held over the last couple weeks. Thankfully Callum and Rayla weren't hard to find; Soren could hear their voices trailing out of the library from all the way down the hall.

 "-he'd thank me later." Callum was saying. Soren could hear the distinct clip of his stride as he paced back and forth as he spoke. "They all would. I'd be doing them a favor."

 "Callum, even if it wasn't that spell in particular, it wouldn't work."

 "I know that dark magic is bad-"

 "Not just that." Rayla cut in. "Callum. You would die."

 Soren stopped short, hand hovering over the doorknob. He let it fall to his side, instead peering through the small crack in the door they had left, the door not entirely closed. Rayla was leaning against a bookshelf only a few feet away, arms crossed over her chest. Callum had stopped his pacing to turn to her, eyes determined.

 "Rayla, you made me promise to do the right thing. To make the sacrifice. If this is what it takes to win, to protect you and Ez, then it's what I have to do."

 "That's not what I-"

 "You're not the only one who's willing to sacrifice everything, Rayla. You know if things were different you'd make the same call."

 She couldn't argue and Callum knew it. "So it's settled then. Tomorrow morning you and I set out. I'll cast the spell, and you'll make sure it hits it's mark. For Katolis. For the world." his determination wavered. "For Ez."

 "What if-" Rayla began, but Callum cut her off with a shake of his head. 

 "It won't work, I already thought of that." he said, frustrated. "The Dark Magic, it hits you almost immediately after the spell is cast. If you do it, then you won't be able to make sure the weapon finds it's mark. You're the warrior, Rayla. So let me be the mage. Remember?"

 "Callum-" she tried to protest, but his voice just climbed higher to drown her out, rising in pitch and anger.

 "The warrior and the mage, Rayla. This was always how it was meant to be. The warrior and the mage will pierce of the heart-"

 "I know the dumb prophecy, Callum." Rayla snapped, voice rising to meet his.

 "-and melt the threat forever." he finished, putting extra emphasis on the last word. "Forever, Rayla."

 "That's not what it was about, Callum." Rayla argued. Soren, still glued to the door, could almost hear their voices morphing into those of his mother and father. Saw their shadows moving under the door like he'd seen theirs; angry and arguing, and him, outside, looking in and unable to fix it. Unable to understand. If they loved each other, then why…

 But he understood now. It was because they had loved each other. But Dark Magic had driven them apart. Pain had driven them apart; grief, fear. 

 It was all that filled the halls, now. You could feel it all around you; fear and pain and loss. And darkness. Not Dark Magic, maybe. Not yet. But soon that would make it's home here as well. His own name called Soren back to the present and made him lean against the door again, peering through the crack at the pair of them.

 "Soren... do you think he still loves Viren?" Callum was asking, turning to Rayla. He was holding a book now, one that Soren remembered well. It was one of his father's. 

 Rayla, she'd stepped away from the bookcase during the heat of the argument and now paced across the opposite side of the room, turned to look at him. "Callum?"

 "It's for the spell." he explained. "We need blood filled with hatred, but not just any blood, the blood of someone who loved the victim. And after what Astrid told us about the pearl being here, well, Viren is the closest we have to a victim right now. I already managed to find the rest."

 Rayla's back was to the door, so Soren couldn't see her expression, but she hunched her shoulders in as she answered; "Even after Runaan tried to kill me, even after Ethari made me a ghost, I still loved them, Callum. It made that love hurt, but it didn't go away. They're my family. I'll always love them. No matter what they've done."

 Callum let the book fall shut, turning to her. They shared a long glance until, finally, Rayla looked away first.

 "It's settled then." Callum said, voice final. "We go in the morning. At first light, so Ezran can't stop us. I'll ask Soren right before we go, in case he sides with Ez. If he says no, then we'll figure something else out."

 Callum tucked the book into his satchel as he crossed the floor to Rayla then, taking her hands in his. "I love you, Rayla. Nothing will ever change that. Not even tomorrow. Just know that, somewhere in me, I’ll always love you."

 A small, stifled sound like a sob escaped Rayla's lips and Callum pressed his forehead to hers. Soren stepped away from the door, feeling even more like an intruder. But not before he caught the next thing Callum said.

 "If we succeed and he’s gone, and I mean really gone, then he won't be able to use me; even if I do use Dark Magic again. Maybe... maybe I can find my way back to you. I'll fight to get back to you with everything I have, Rayla. I promise."

 Soren left them to their grief. 

 He couldn't sleep that night, or more, he could; but every time he closed his eyes, half-formed visions played behind his eyelids. Rayla, crouched over Callum's fallen form, shaking him and begging him to wake up. Ezran, tears gathering in his eyes, the horrible surety filling them as he realized that Callum had gone before he awoke. The statue that would stand in the Valley of Graves long after all of them were dead and buried. 

 Soren had known Callum for most of his life; grown up with him and watched him become the man he was today. He was proud of the mage, who was like a brother to him. But with that knowledge came recognition; he had seen that look in Callum's eyes a thousand times before and knew what it meant. When Callum set his mind to something, really set his mind to it, there was no stopping him; even if that thing he'd chosen was his own death. Soren figured that was why Rayla hadn't argued any more than she had; they both knew Callum well enough to know it would be pointless. 

 But the same way that Soren knew he couldn't stop Callum, he also knew what he had to do. He had known when he followed them to the library, he now realized. Before he even heard the first whisperings of their plan. But there was one problem with Soren's new solution; Callum was right. If he cast the spell, then the dark magic would make him go all wobbly long before he could get it to Aaravos. Unless...

 Soren sat up, looking down at his hands; clenching and unclenching them. Felt the air filling his lungs with every breath. This wasn't the first time he'd been exposed to dark magic. It was a part of him. He was a dead man walking. None of the others knew that, of course. How did you bring it up in casual conversation? But maybe if Callum had known, he would have changed his plan. Maybe Soren could cast the spell and deliver the killing blow, all on his own.

 It was too late to ask Callum that now, though. He'd become suspicious immediately. And it was too late to know if the twisted, horrible feeling in his chest was love for his father or hate. He would just have to hope it would work. 

 Soren donned his armor with newfound purpose, or more, a purpose that had always been there, but he had only now accepted. He was a Crownguard. This was what he did. My heart for Katolis, he thought. My life for the royal family. 

 His footfalls were quiet, quieter than they’d ever had to be before, as he crept down the hall and into Callum's study. Thankfully he had gone to sleep with Rayla tonight, so Soren was able to disregard stealth in favor of speed as he searched for the satchel and it's contents. He found it hanging off the back of a chair; and upon opening it, was relieved to see that everything he would need was already there. He picked the book up just in case, flipping through until he found the spell that had, as Ezran had put it, started this all. 

 A unicorn horn, blood filled with hatred, and-

 Soren stopped. lifting the small, empty appearing glass jar from the satchel even as he read the words. A dying breath.

 His own breath caught in his throat at the realization of what must be contained right behind that glass. Soren knew that Callum's mastery of the sky arcanum had only grown in recent years, and that, he supposed, meant mastery over air itself. But to think that he had found the place it happened and- 

 Soren squeezed his eyes shut, willing himself not to feel anything. Not to admit that maybe this was too far, too dark a spell. After all, what choice did they have?

 He tucked the jar back into the satchel alongside the other components, marking which page held the incantation. Then he slung it over his shoulder and he left.

[goldentail-readswarriorcats]

HFAHSAFgSJasgjh

I'm normal about Bive wdy--Trivia

Bive is currently the elevator NPC that enters the elevator from the most floors, coming from 5 floors, the second being Reddy coming from 2.

Players are able to get the "BRAIN WASHER" by spraying her with Spray Bottle.

Bive has three currently uploaded UGC items: "Bive Hairball Head", "Bive Spectacles", and "Bive Teeth". A fourth accessory is planned, in which it'll be the hair on its own without the tuff in front.

Bive was originally going to be named "Scag" back when Scag wasn't conceptualized.

One of Bive's alternative official renders is a reference to the Spirit Phone album by Lemon Demon.[1]

Her name is pronounced "bye-vuh/Bīv".[2]

One of Bive's April Fools idle dialogue lines is most likely a reference to this infamous tweet.

Bive’s glasses glow in the dark. It is unknown if this is intentional.

Bive is voiced by BARB1ESPACE.[3]

Bive makes an appearance in a crossover with another game, PHIGHTING!, as the skin "Bivekit".

Bive may be getting a remodel alongside, or after Split.[4]

Bive refuses to accept the Kitty item, as she knows Split doesn't like cats.[5]

The "Shwaffle House" location that Bive occasionally mentions in dialogue is planned to be added to the game.[6]

Bive is a self-appointed detective and a conspiracy theorist.[7]

She comes up with all of her conspiracy theories herself.[8]

Bive is made completely out of hair.[9]

Her bones are made out of highly condensed hair.

The only parts of her that isn't made of hair is her nervous system and partially her muscles.

Cutting her hair wouldn't hurt her, unless a nerve was hit.[10]

She doesn't mind that she is a "hair monster".[11]

According to Yeuc_c in stage, Bive weighs roughly the same as an average person due to how dense her hair is.

When wet, her hair flattens out.[12]

She would be a safety hazard if she came into contact with static.[13]

She feels like horse hair. [citation needed]

Bive was a lab accident.[14]

The lab she was made in was heavily associated with MR.[15]

She has a little bit of human DNA.[16]

She was never a child, she was always a hairball monster.[17]

It has been confirmed by Yeuc_c that Bive and Split have feelings for each other.[18]

They are not in a relationship, according to TheCanvasCreature[19]; however, it has been confirmed by Yeuc_c[20] that they will eventually confess their love to each other.

They can still be shipped with other characters.[21]

Bive worries about Split often.[22]

Bive hates MR.[23]

She knows things about it that others do not.

Bive does not trust Enphoso.[24]

She also doesn't trust DrRETRO.[25]

She does not trust Pest at all, and given the chance, she would run away from him as fast as possible.[26]

Despite this, Bive and Pest would work together under a common enemy.[27]

Bive is scared of Scary Mike.[28]

She ends up on the Funny Maze floor due to her floor-hopping.

Bive was attacked by Jaoba before, but escaped.[29]

Bive was banned from Glorp N' Go, after she stole batter and ran off.[30]

She stole the batter in order to break into buildings, as the yeast extracted from it can be used to eat away and replace glass, so she can enter through windows without them shattering.[31]

Bive is dressed in stolen clothing.

She would wear anything, if she believes it wouldn't get her hurt, but she isn't too picky about style.[32]

Bive is dealing with a very real stalker situation.[33]

Bive is uncomfortable and afraid of the "eye tree", due to its association with a "very evil thing".[34]

Bive has reason to what she says. She has seen a lot of horrific things and doesn't know how to emotionally handle it.[35]

Judging by Bive's dialogues, she seems to have some sort of trauma regarding the lab she was made in.

As stated by Yeucc on stream, this will be elaborated more in future updates. [citation needed]

Bive doesn't have a house.[36]

Bive is 5'9.[37]

Bive is m-spec, though she does not identify with any specific sexuality.[38]

Bive listens to most of whatever is playing on her radio. She does not trust a fair amount of radio stations.[39]

She despises the country pop music genre, as she believes it is made to trick people into buying red pickup trucks. She is concerned specifically about bright colors of vehicles, since she believes it allows the clown militia's cars to blend in with normal vehicles easier.[40]

Bive would be into lost media, and talk about it like a murder case.[41]

Bive is lactose-intolerant.

Despite this, dialogue between her and Split shows that she still ate at an ice cream parlor with her, indicating that she either had lactose-free ice cream and it wasn't stated, or ate the ice cream with lactose anyway.

Bive is not good at singing.[42]

Bive is the most likely to get a lobotomy; however, it would be unwillingly.[43]

Bive cooks mold over an open flame and cuts it up to use it as seasoning.[44]

Bive doesn't have a favourite instrument, but she wouldn't trust pianos.[45]

According to dialogue between Split and Spud!, Bive likes forests. She describes them as "always calm and natural" until those darn aliens arrive.

Bive considers hygiene "arbitrary", according to dialogue with Gnarpy.

She doesn't use shampoo, conditioner, or any kind of soap.[10]

She is the worst-smelling in Regretevator. [citation needed]

As stated by Yeucc on stream, she smells like wet dog. [citation needed]

Bive is easily startled by loud noises.[40][46]

Bive has very excellent focus when she is heavily concentrating on something.[40]

Bive only likes specific types of math, mainly geometry.[47]

If there was a zombie apocalypse, Bive would most likely thrive.[48]

Alt under the cut

[coffeegnomee]

um can i get an explanation of what pb&js plans were in S5 that didnt hold up (help)

Basically Minute, Jumper, Pentar, and Ashwag had a secret plan that they refused to reveal but would only say "trust the process" over and over and assured chat that it was going to be awesome.

They basically streamed 0% of the ideation process, 0% of the struggles, 0% of the surprise successes.

Then on the infamous day, Lifesteal Sunday (5/19/24), Ash went live to build a new pb&j base, so imagine, you're just watching the most normal boring chill base building stream.

Jumper goes live and starts talking to Mapicc about wanting him to ban her because she doesn't agree with her team killing people to make peace on the server, it's a tbh sus but also great moment of improv lore, interesting character development from Jumper. It was all just a lie though. So it wasn't even a real lore moment. (I'm not salty at all. nope)

She leads him around the server, and halfway through her sentence he pops like a grape. Killed (and banned bc it was hardcore mode) instantly by a claymore, a *special* arrow cannon. we already saw arrow canons this season. it was. omg it was so unoriginal and uninteresting and IMMEDIATE, no banter from Mapicc, no evil speech, no possibility of escape, just instant shotgun to the head.

Swap back to Ash stream and him and Minute are absolutely celebrating for a job well done, "thanks for watching the show". What show. You were building a base.

And that was the "trust the process" plan.

But it wasn't quite over. They got wemmbu on and for pt2 of their epic plan they do *something* and suddenly wemmbu isn't immortal anymore so they 4v1'ed him and he died almost instantly.

No explanation, no lead up, barely a villainous speech. While they were gloating and trying to figure out how to further chunk ban wemmbu to make sure he couldn't play anymore Ash finally explained that as a part of Minute's final Presidency Decree he added a mod to the server that meant they could manually turn of Wemmbu's immortality just like wemmbu could manually turn it on. So it was something completely behind the scenes to a degree unfathomable.

Basically, their plan worked flawlessly but it was the most unsatisfying thing to watch of all time. It was too secretive, they allowed for no error, they didn't give the opps a chance, they didn't do an ounce of real rp, and they killed ALL their opps in one fell swoop.

This all after about 2(?) months of doing NOTHING on the server, barely playing, not streaming, refusing to fight, waiting for the perfect moment to unleash a perfect plan.

Also as an additional aside, the Original Perfect Plan(TM) was creating a void trap in Jumper's base to trap Mapicc or Zam (yes. after she stopped them from opening the void). The mining out was streamed but how it would go down was also kept totally secret and then it just got dropped in favor of the claymore. Basically pb&j promised a lot but took their sweet time making it happen to the point where it was very unsatisfying and then they lacked the rp pizzazz and whimsy to make it interesting in other ways.

[thecoolerliauditore]

why has gem started her episode with 'impulse and pearl are antagonizing us we shouldnt be friends with them' she also said she wants to socially manipulate everyone into hating that group

insane gempearl shipper answer: she's upset and hurt about Pearl shrugging off of her saying Pearl betrayed her last time and can't stand watching Pearl once again gallivanting around with another group so she's doing the opposite of what she tried in SL where now she's antagonizing Pearl's group in hopes she tears them apart instead of appealing to Pearl in hopes she'll notice her.

normal answer: she's just like that I think. Pearl and Impulse are the closest thing they've been able to establish as enemies and having enemies is what you Should Do in this series. Gem might be more privy to this mindset since she's new and on edge (think Mumbo immediately turning on the mounders in SL because that's what happened in LL and his only metric to go by)

evil answer: it's both of the above and a third more secret thing a gemboy would be able to offer with additional insight.

[agathasdefender]

AgathaRio Drabble based on the prompt "Do you hate me?"

“Do you hate me?”

The words were quiet, murmured in the silence of the night, when Agatha should have been sleeping. She opened one eye, squinting at the woman that sat beside her. Rio absently poked at the fire, the end of her stick red with layers of ember. She had been doing this for some time, watching over the coven as they slept.

“I want to.” Agatha’s voice was quieter than the crackling of the fire, but Rio’s body froze, her head pivoting and gaze dropping to the ground where Agatha lay. She had truly hoped that Rio would have kept facing the fire for this conversation. Death just looked at her now, her eyes so full of emotions that Agatha didn’t have the bandwidth to parse. “I think I used to. Time and distance…” A shrug against her makeshift sleeping mat, and Agatha looked away from that pleading gaze.

She should have pretended to be asleep.

~ ꕥ ~

“Do you hate me?” Agatha’s lips were pressed tight, not even fully sure how she had squeezed the question through them. The sun should have crested over the horizon about ten minutes prior, but time didn’t move, so instead they were looking together at the eternal dusk. “You asked me, so I thought it was only fair that I asked you.”

“I do. A little bit. Sometimes.” Death delivered, deadpan and with a beat between each sentence. Rio looked away from her, looking into the middle distance as she continued to say more than she ever had. “I existed for a countless amount of time without you by my side. The ache of not having you was sudden and harsh.” She laughed, shaking her head, turning towards Agatha and the road. “I got him, but I lost you. I didn’t think that you were something I was capable of losing.”

“Sorry to disappoint.”

“I don’t think you are, really. But that’s okay. I don’t hate you. Now, at least.” Rio’s smile was sad, laden with words that could have been spoken. She held her cards close to her chest, and Agatha could respect that.  

“But you did?”

“When you kept me from him.” Rio spoke and Agatha wanted to rip herself out of her own skin. Something between embarrassment and fury burned under her skin, but she was letting Rio speak. “I had to steal time with my own son. To even get to know him. If you had seen me during the daylight, if you had seen me near him, you would have thought I was there to take him. You would have tried to kill me. I couldn’t do that, to either of you.”

~ ꕥ ~

“Do you hate me?” Rio stood at the gate, peaking through the doorway with a small smile. It was a beautiful way for her love to end, it only made sense to her for this to be the next step in their relationship. A cluster of lilac and lavender clutched in her hands, and she approached.  

“A little.” There was a bitter note to Agatha’s voice, her death too close to the tongue. There was much that they could discuss, but over her own grave seemed a bit much. “Sorry I called you evil.” She said, gingerly taking the flowers from Rio’s grasp. Their touch lingered a moment too long, the transfer coming with a meeting of the eyes that Agatha wanted to pull out of.

Everything felt too raw.

“I know you didn’t mean it.” Rio’s voice was singsong, light and fluffy around the edges. The voice of a woman who was finally, after centuries, getting what she asked for.

“I don’t think you did.” Agatha laughed.

“Let’s go see our son.” Rio took a step back, letting the greens of the portal start to lap over her. A hand extended to her love, the smile that she offered was genuine. “He’s waiting for you.”

Agatha took the extended hand.

[eyecan02]

I'm surprised I haven't seen anyone talking about this article. Delores is definitely in the Waiting Room and Rory is dead DEAD for good. Lol Beetlejuice knew exactly what he was doing when he redirected that sandworm toward Delores and Rory.

Beetlejuice literally said "Don't want your ex bothering you from now on? Say less, babe. The Juice will take care of him for good."

The implications are so good because him choosing sandworm death means that the Waiting Room and or even Rory somehow becoming a civil servant were (in BJ's eyes) never going to be punishment enough for using Lydia. So he wiped him completely out of existence. Very real, golden retriever and sweet of him to do for his Gothic lady love.

And in part, I think this reveals at least part of the plot for BJ3. Most of us had predicted Delores and Rory would probably become a toxic evil couple with a power imbalance but it looks like Rory is gone for good. As well as Justin Theroux played Rory, most of us agree, it's not essential for him to come back.

As for Delores, I don't see them creating a new villain. At least not a new one in the After Life. I get the strong sense that not only will Delores be the main/only villain but that the story is pretty much going to pick up pretty much right where we left off.

Judging from the end of BJ3, we know that Lydia dreamed up the entire Romania trip/Astrid marriage/ birth giving scene, that means we have no idea how much time passed between Lydia saying goodbye to her show and her waking up in bed with (her husband) Beetlejuice.

So I suspect that BJ3 is going to pick only a few days/maybe even a week tops from the events of BJ2. I say this because what do we know about Delores? She's a soul sucker- (like Beetlejuice she plays by her own rules) so dangerous that she has a whole chapter dedicated to her own kind.

Do you think the other dead folks in the Waiting Room are going to be comfortable sharing a space with a soul sucker? Wolf might have someone on the Goon Squad babysitting her in that room to keep her in check. But whether they have someone watching her or not, Delores is going to get impatient, suck out some souls, say "fuck this" and go back to searching for Beetlejuice within just a few days of being put in that room.

And judging by how Beetlejuice had no problem projecting himself to Lydia at the end of BJ2, it means the rules for Code 699 about him not being to travel to the world of the Living, have not effected him compete.

Maybe he can't do deals for now, but he doesn't need to make a deal to keep seeing Lydia. She had once mentioned she wanted to chop up the model and burn it, but we don't see this onscreen so more than likely the model is still in perfect condition. Also, more than likely, the Deetz house was sold and has new tenants.

This comes up in my beetlebabes fanfic where Beetlejuice leaves messages and Lydia's name on the walls and mirrors to scare off the new tenants and draw Lydia back to the house. I think this is where BJ3 is headed storywise.