#AND NO CONCLUSION ON EVIL ALINA

[kitconnor]

shadow and bone is officially cancelled after an eight month long wait

[aleksanderscult]

You know what's so crazy? I just came across a post that popped up on my feed and someone said the Darkling pit Zoya and Alina against each other. Since they were so busy competing with each other, they couldn't see that the Darkling was the problem. They also came to the conclusion that the Darkling was a misogynist🙃 The amount of reaching that was made is mind-boggling, especially since the Darkling didn't have many book scenes throughout the series so where exactly are they getting this from?

The funniest bit is how they call us of "not having critical thinking".

I mean you must be purposefully blind to not have read the bit where the Darkling took Zoya's amplifier away and send her away from the Little Palace after she yeeted Alina on a wall. 'Cause if she stayed for a few more days he would most likely no longer have a Sun Summoner.

Zoya didn't need anyone to make her Alina's adversary. Her own vanity, obsession with the Darkling and need for the spotlight did that.

But of course her fans will never admit that so....

I knew that many people would rather defend "vulnerable", delusional girls that the narrative constantly reminds us that have been through the passion of Christ rather than taking the side of an "oppressive", "evil" man that his only goal is to make these girls suffer but damn.... You guys have taken it on a whole other level, huh?

[stromuprisahat]

Alina and the Darkling’s interactions, pt. 14

(But also a bit of Malina drama and the Darkling’s qualities of a decent leader.)

Siege and Storm- Chapter 3

Twice a traitor, twice deserter, murderer of her fellow soldiers, staying in a comfy private cabin, fed, allowed to see her beloved fellow deserter... What a life!

I feel like there’s a step missing. Alina doesn’t know about the Sea Whip and its properties, yet she “figured out” the Darkling wants the amplifier for her. Based only on the assumption he’s insane and what’s more nuts than two amplifiers?! Good thing she’s the MC, so it works...

Remember, children: Even a person prone to jumping to conclusions can occasionally land on the correct one!

It’s madness, I told myself. He wouldn’t dare attempt it. The thought brought me little comfort. He always dared.

One of the Darkling’s best qualities. If there’s a way, he’ll try it.

Stupid? Yes. Gullible? I’m sure the Darkling would wish so.

“Someone less stubborn? Less selfish? Less hungry for the life of a mouse? Believe me,” he said, “I wish I could.”

The Darkling’s often accused of wanting Alina weak and malleable, but the text shows quite the opposite! He wants confident Queen, only more open-minded and compassionate. He wants her proud and powerful, but helpful to Ravka and Grisha alike.

A Grisha can have only one ampifier. You told me that yourself.

No, he did not:

“If we have any hope of destroying the Fold, we need the stag’s power.”

“But maybe if I had one to practice with—”

“You know it doesn’t work that way.”

“I do?”

He frowned. “Haven’t you been reading your theory?”

The Darkling lets Alina draw a conclusion, but he doesn’t say she cannot get an amplifer, because she couldn’t have the Stag otherwise. I can see three possible reasons, all probably true.

a.) There’s no need for her to know about the rest yet.

b.) Alina’s main problem is lack of training, no skill. Amplifier for practice would only increase that power she cannot control.

c.) Why waste perfectly good amplifier on someone, who’s getting another?

I don’t understand why is the Darkling explaining anything to Alina. She’s obviously not willing to cooperate, yet he’s still schooling her. Somehow not giving up on her...

I thought of the books I’d read on Grisha theory.

So, like three?

Alina sounds like a spoiled brat. I want, I want, I want! This is the main character in a world full of wars and suffering. Her tantrum reminds me of a certain evil step sister from a certain Russian fairy tale...

When we’re there, the irony of the antagonist being the one to set aside his desires to achieve what’s more beneficial for others is also something else...

Back to insulting the antagonist right in his face... because it’s the most mature reaction to disagreement and the safest way to persuade him not to kill your beloved LI.

You can’t control the Fold. It has to be destroyed.

... I know, because I’ve studied merzost for centuries like half an hour, when YOU were using it in front of me! Strategy for even longer, because that’s in every map maker’s poor, poor orphan’s curriculum!

I love when the Darkling’s rational about Alina’s usefulness.

Alina once again assumes her precious Malyen’s gonna get hurt, even though the Darkling just told her how much he’d love to do it, but can’t... They’re both treated far better than they should’ve been, yet Alina’s first thought is death and torture. Just like back in the day, when the Darkling dare to ask about her day...

Like a fool.

Alina’s self-criticism's well deserved, but for different reasons than she wants us to believe. She’s not some defenceless victim surrounded by enemies, she’s merely close to facing consequences of her own reckless actions.

fool1/fuːl/

noun: fool; plural noun: fools

1. a person who acts unwisely or imprudently; a silly person.

And there’s nothing silly about her, or about anything she caused so far.

Aleksander’s done with her hysteria, but (un)fortunately possesses inhuman amount of self-control.

17 y/o voice: It’s a fairy tale. A children’s story. It doesn’t actually exist. I would know. I got out of our tiny village like a year ago...

“Like the stag?”

“... or my sister? Oh, my mother didn’t mention her, when unearthing family dirt? She IS a mermaid, btw...”

I just have to add this thread...

Let’s make infinitesimal a new effervescent!

Mal glanced at me. I gave an infinitesimal shake of my head.

Totally unexpected, and surely unnoticed by any Corporalki... but a moment later, the Darkling threatens to torture Alina and make Ivan heal her. Does it mean they don’t have any Healers with them? They would be less likely to survive and escape to join their general, if we use the “selfless doctor” stereotype to explain. Less used to combat, probably protecting their patients... Non-warriors are always easiest to kill.

Another proof the Darkling doesn’t enjoy cruelty or torture. He certainly knows when to use it, or threaten to do so, but never with other way at hand. Also, as a decent leader, he won’t have his people do something he’s not willing to do himself.

How doesn’t anyone find this suspicious? I’d thought Sturmhond has a reputation to uphold. ... and not one of the knight in shining armour!

I also need to link this amazing AU, where Sturmhond has the balls to act like a ruthless pirate.

The Darkling casually dismisses Sturmhond’s objection, to focus on matter at hand- namely persuading melodramatic couple to cooperate, since neither of them's willing to see the other harmed in any way. There’s no need to cease his actions, because unlike Sturmhond he’s aware they will never get to the torture.

He doesn’t waste time or breath on Sturmhond or his crew. They can be dealt with later, when Malina’s not present. The Darkling doesn’t show or tolerate disunity on the ship in front of the prisoners.

He uses theatrics to stall and unsettle Malyen. I have a suspicion that even the fact he’s touching Alina’s enough to bother the tracker.

They’re so easy! There’s not even a scratch yet, and Malyen breaks! It’s probably supposed to show how much does Alina matter to him, but heroes should struggle, not cave in as soon as someone pulls out a knife! This way they look incredibly weak and I don’t understand, why should reader root for them.

I know this is supposed to be Mal putting Alina’s well-being first, but he reads like a spineless coward.

The Darkling’s pretty generous for an insane megalomaniac, isn’t he? A week was Sturmhond’s first suggestion. Is it partly to appease him?

This is just PATHETIC.

I feel like I’m reading Rosamunde Pilcher, not ‘chosen one’ kind of fantasy. I guess I understand noble silent suffering more than constant screaming of each other’s names.

They DO love their drama....

All previous parts.

[sappholovell]

TW: SA, r@pe, and discussions of abuse and violence particularly in romantic relationships

Also spoilers for ACoTar and Shadow and Bone

This is just a tangent that's been on my mind for a while, so take this as me shouting into the void. There's been a few trends in YA literature that have caught my attention, but none as much as "you're a bad person, hence you are a rapist." My best example of this is A Court of Thorns and Roses, or ACoTaR, by Sarah J. Maas. Nearly every character who is a bad person has either sexually assaulted another character or offered to keep a female or underaged character for their followers or minions or some shit. Amarantha, Ianthe, and many of the Illyrian soldiers (who are supposed to be GOOD GUYS, might I add) are like this, and others are just neglectful or abusive to their partners or families (Beron, Tamlin, Kier, and even Eris, to an extent.) Now, stories about SA survivors are always good to tell, but that's not what this is. This is the lazy ability to make a character a rapist in order to make them unlikable, even against their own personality.

This happens in Shadow and Bone as well with the Darkling. Before the fandom gets their pitchforks and starts running, let me finish. Making Genya spy on the king at the age of eleven, knowing that he would sexually abuse her? That is something that the Darkling would do. But astral projecting into Alina's room and pretending to be her boyfriend to get in her pants? His whole thing is trying to make her stronger and more confident so that if (when, in his mind) she chooses to leave Mal and join the Darkling they can rule as equals. She's the Persephone to his Hades, in his mind. He's a horrible person. He's committed genocide, created abominations, and tried to torture some guy while his girlfriend watched in order to steal the girlfriend, all out of a twisted and selfish love for his people and himself. Writing him coercing Alina just feels like a lazy way to make him eviler, and it takes all of the depth from his later character arcs.

In SJM's case, Rhys as an SA survivor comes up, but it isn't a major part of his story arc. His experiences (as well as Mor's, Gwyns, and Nesta's) are only brought up in long, performative rants that are supposed to be empowering but lose purpose after the first six hundred words. And the rapists themselves? I have no idea. They have no personality after that point, except for maybe Amarantha. I thought that it fit Amarantha's personality okay. But seriously, this idea that all men are creepy sex addicts who can't control themselves and hate women unless they are the four conveniently attractive magical men SJM has lined up for us gets old really fast, and it takes all the fun out of the villain. Oh, there's a female rapist too? That's neat. That could open a discussion. What else does she do? What does she want? What are the villains' motivations? She doesn't know, and neither do we. It's power or something. We could have guessed this ourselves. Even Tamlin had to be violent and mentally abusive.

In conclusion, in order to write a good villain please think about the direction you are going to take them in, and give them a personality and backstory as you would any other character before making them do evil things; Make those evil things line up with their motivations and experiences. And please, please, please don't make them ALL rapists and sex offenders if they are a nomadic or indigenous civilization because that comes off as really really racist. Thank you and good night.

[bardofavon]

First of all, love your fic! I'm addicted, it's so good!!! But I had a question so I could get my expectations for the ending/what's upcoming in order. I'm feeling for Kaz a lot, I guess you could say I'm "rooting" for him. Am I supposed to be? My read is that Kaz is trying to make the most of an awful situation to give himself some kind of control but that he really didn't want to help in Novokribirsk but did because of the Darkling's blackmail. He also doesn't seem to agree with any of the Darkling's plans, thinking them delusional or for power rather than what the Darkling says.

Kaz is such an unreliable narrator and you make a ton of jokes about how he did it to himself in some ways, so I'm not sure I'm reading it right.

I guess what I'm asking is if Kaz is genuinely becoming a worse person (not really in acts but as in caring less about hurting innocents/children) and going to stay on that trajectory all the way through or am I reading the extortion right and irrespective of his attraction to the Darkling, Kaz would never do these things willingly.

Sorry this may be confusing and maybe you don't want to answer which is fine but i really like your fic!

Omg you never have to apologize for asking questions about my fic, I love love love love talking about my fic because I am also obsessed with it. answer under the cut bc it's 10 paragraphs

Kaz is....very complicated........I call him an unreliable narrator a lot, but he's not unreliable in the way that "he's lying to the readers" and more in the way of "he's not capable of seeing the full picture/we are so limited in his head that we can only see things through his eyes and he will very confidently come to conclusions that are wrong/he hasn't slept a full night in weeks" so there's no "kaz is secretly also just as evil but not admitting it" twist coming or anything.

You SHOULD root for him and I hope that you do, I do!! I make a lot of jokes or comments about him doing it to himself which is true and also untrue, they are jokes and they are not. He made several wrong choices that led him to this point, he let his hubris get the better of him and didn't rely on the people who were there to help and support him when he should have, he went out of his depth, he pushed people away, he tried to play the game when he should have been burning all the cards. But at the same time, that revelation he has in the last chapter about how he was fucked from the start is ALSO true. He was always going to be in the Darkling's sights, he was always going to have these dilemmas, he was always going to be put in the impossible situations.

But also...so was Alina, and she chose differently. She fought. She made allies and confidently stood against him saying "no, this is wrong" and stuck to it all the way through. She was also more easily manipulated and didn't see through the Darkling at the start the way that Kaz did, but if she had I very much doubt her conclusion would be "I will agree to side with him because there's more in it for me" (something Kaz thought he wanted because he has this view of himself of being this cutthroat heartless monster willing to do anything to achieve his goal even though at his core that's not really who he is, but again, unreliable narrator, he thinks that he is. he will continue saying that he is. he will make decisions as though he is, but he will not feel good about them and he will be torn and he will not be happy).

Kaz is kind of becoming a worse person in that he is being desensitized to violence and he is going down this path of "I've already taken so many lives, maybe I am wrong that I'm not seeing the picture of eternity, maybe this is what it takes" but he's also not there yet. He still cares very deeply about people even though he doesn't want to admit it, he advocated to kill the King not because he wanted to rule but because he made a promise to Genya and he wanted to see it through because he is genuinely disgusted by the King's actions and abuse of power.

Every time he thinks about the way Inej views him and the person she thinks he could be and the way she hoped he would use his power, he feels absolutely terrible about it...because he also kind of wishes he could be that person for her. There was a sort of bitterness in his refusal to help people at the start, that "the world never helped me so why should I help them" and "time and time again you hear stories of saints being killed by the people they helped because no good deed goes unpunished" but that was still when the people involved could be reduced to faceless masses. Something about committing the actual act and seeing the people it was affecting and watching kids as they died was brutal and brought to the forefront that these are real people, real lives, just like he's a real person with a real life.

But of course, by then it was too late. Him being unable to find peace, unable to find rest, his inability to close his eyes without reliving the people that he killed, that's definitely me trying to demonstrate that he's not free of it because he does still genuinely care about people. He's fucked up over it. They committed the same crime, but he's fucked up about it and the Darkling isn't because he still cares about people as individuals in the way the Darkling never will because he still only cares about people as a concept (the greater good outweighs the individual lives I'm taking, even though the greater good is hypothetical future and the individual lives are crying in front of me..........)

I do think if the Darkling hadn't threatened Inej and Jesper Kaz would never have gone through with it. He would have backed down, he would have stood up to him, he would have fought. But now that he's done it and also (in his mind) lost Inej and Jesper he has to recontextualize it in his brain in order to cope with it. Objectively, he wouldn't have done it if he had no other choice and he does not want to be in this situation and he is a victim and he is suffering. In his mind, the way he processes and copes with what he's going through, he made a choice and threw his lot in with the Darkling and he wants power and he is working his plan and he doesn't feel remorse. Is it true? No. Is he going to keep saying it because being in this position is his reality? Yes.

But please root for him!! Kaz is going to have quite a few more morality defining choices left to make, and he might make the right ones and he might make the wrong ones but I personally believe in his inherent goodness and think his genuine care for the people around him can't be beat out of him so easily.

[grishaverse-chaos]

this isn’t to say that i think aleksander is necessarily ‘good’ just because he’s not all-out evil. some of what he does can be described as necessary evils, including his destruction of novokribirsk and its inhabitants, but others - particularly his actions towards alina throughout the last two books - blur the lines between the political and personal and the selfless and selfish. if i really thought aleksander was just a fundamentally good but misunderstood character i wouldn’t be half as fascinated by him. as much as he maintains a moral compass, it’s often a little crooked and occasionally he seems to act without referring to it at all. when he riles up mal and alina for his own enjoyment, punishes genya for betraying him, and decides he will destroy everything and everyone alina has ever taken shelter in so that he can be all she has, those are not selfless actions, nor ones without malice. they’re also moments in which - with in some ways the exception of the last one - he had a choice and chose to act for personal pleasure at the expense of others. tormenting mal by implying that alina is still attracted to him and destroying genya’s beauty are moments in which aleksander zeroes in on someone’s weakness and takes full advantage of it for no tactical reason. making either of them unhappy does nothing to further his ultimate goal for the grisha; he just wants to enjoy causing pain to others who he dislikes or feels have wronged him.

Basically the violent coup is the last thing i hold over his head and i do believe partially that it COULD work. With his speech about their being no borders, only inside and outside the fold remaining, i think people could take that warning and stop their labs (or he now had the power to burn said labs down) , druskelle would not completely go away sure but at least no country would have the courage to full on openly encourage and finance them.

see, I disagree with this take! I agree 100% with what you're saying about him acting out of malice to take advantage of people's weaknesses, but I don't think that his attack on novokribirsk was clever strategically

firstly, I think if the ambassadors had survived, fear of grisha would have increased significantly. we see this in the show (and possibly the books as well, but it's been a while since I reread them) how all grisha are blamed for the expansion of the fold. there's no way the darkling didn't predict this, given his experience over the centuries of anti-grisha sentiment, which leads to the obvious conclusion that he knew people would be more afraid of grisha and chose to accept that as a consequence of his actions. this goes against his stated goal of reducing prejudice against grisha

secondly, the impact it would have on other nations (whether they feared ravka etc) is secondary to the impact it would have on ravka itself. novokribirsk is a city that's really crucial to the ravkan economy, and destroying it wipes out that source of income. it also means that west ravka now holds more of a grudge against east ravka and against the monarchy (let us not forget that the darkling, as general of the second army, holds considerable institutional power). west ravka controls the entirety of ravkan trade. if they decided to turn against east ravka, that could have disastrous consequences, which again the darkling surely predicted

and lastly, the loss of life caused by the attack is an unacceptable casualty imo. even if it had worked, I still believe that there were better ways he could have achieved the same aims without destroying the civilians in novokribirsk (for instance, I once suggested that he could have covertly evacuated the city before using the fold) and that his decision to go for the most violent option available is not only a poor decision strategically, but also ethically inexcusable

[funkymbtifiction]

Shadow and Bone: Baghra [INTJ 8w9]

MBTI Type: INTJ What stands out most about Baghra is her intuition – she just “knows” things and comes to rapid conclusions about people, situations, and future events. She admits that she blinded herself to her son for a time, but has always seen both his potential for evil and his destructive tendencies. She sees what Alina could be and pushes her toward it; she figures out that Mal is the…

[minetteskvareninova]

First moments of episode 4 and I am already flipping tables over here. Why the fuck are Alina and Nikolai dining with his genocidal brother and sexual predator father?! How did they not come to the conclusion that while yes, Darkling is wrong and evil and to be defeated and shit, these fuckers have to go too?! LOGIC, SHOW. WHERE THE FUCK IS IT?!

“A leader loyal to the crown” - WHOSE CROWN?! Nikolai’s crown, maybe, but the rest of them?! Why would you not want to actively destroy these awful, awful people?!

[number63liveblogs]

Ruin and Rising: Chapter 4

“I need to keep you safe, Alina, to stay focused on what matters. I can’t do that if…” He let out a long breath. “You were meant for more than me, and I’ll die fighting to give it to you. But please don’t ask me to pretend it’s easy.”

See, this right here could be a very interesting dynamic of “the lovers are being kept from each other because one of them has a higher goal that prevents them from pursuing a relationship, and the other is choosing to help just be close to their beloved, “ but instead Mal’s clearly just jumping to conclusions so fast that Alina can’t even begin to try to talk to him about what she wants out of the relationship.

Like, if the issue was that Mal couldn’t take being in a relationship wit Alina because of the stress or something, that would be okay, but he’s really just martyring himself. And again, not in an interesting way.

I really hope he’s going to grow as a person and he can Alina can go back to being cute together, I don’t want to end the series disappointed because all the other love interests were more interesting than the one the main character ended up with. Because I’m still 100% certain that Alina and Mal will end the series together, they’ve gotten the most build-up and YA series don’t as a rule let their main characters become evil or end up in a purely political marriage.

[serpenteve]

what did alina starkov want, anyway?

People have been arguing for ages about the ending of Ruin & Rising. One faction says Alina losing her powers was misogynistic and needlessly cruel while the other says the ending is fitting because Alina always wanted to live an ordinary life with Mal.

I would argue the problem lies with Alina's mess of a character arc.

For the majority of S&B and the first half of S&S, Alina is a very passive character who wants nothing more than to run away with Mal. Though they changed it in the show, it was originally Mal who wanted to go after the stag and who wanted Alina to have the stag's amplifier because he thought it would give them a fighting chance against the Darkling. In S&S, Alina is terrified of taking a second amplifier because it goes against all the Grisha theory she knows, echoing the arc words of the trilogy: What is infinite? The universe and the greed of men.

It is only when Alina takes the second amplifier that she's allowed to grow a backbone. This is truly a bizarre writing choice because it all but forces the narrative to frame every active step Alina takes to forward the plot and her own character arc---whether that's deciding to rebuild the Second Army, or form a political alliance with Nikolai, or search for the third amplifier, or simply stand up for herself against bullies---as being manifestations of her creeping villainy.

Meanwhile, on the opposite end of the spectrum, there is her Muggle boyfriend who is there to remind us that this is not who she is, that Morozova's amplifiers are corrupting her, that he wants her to go back to the girl she was when she was more passive, vulnerable, and dependent on him.

Surely, there is a line between the heroine learning to trust herself and gaining confidence in her abilities versus the heroine giving in to corruption and becoming more power-hungry and evil? However, the narrative does not distinguish between these two very different arcs. Consequently, the reader is left in a bizarre place where we cannot watch Alina's character arc grow from passivity to maturity without being reminded of how ~evil~ she is becoming, despite there being very little textual evidence to back this up. We also grow to resent Mal because instead of him being a supportive boyfriend who is trying to help Alina navigate her own character arc, he is holding her back from her potential---not just in her powers but also in her personal autonomy.

At the same time, there are sprinklings of Alina's call to her dark side through the Darkling's offer of a throne. Ignoring how sincere his words may or may not be, Alina still feels tempted to join him and frequently thinks about the truth of his words---that she is no ordinary Grisha, that is useless to fight what she is, that she is capable of more than an ordinary mortal life, that he is the only one who can understand the eternity before her. Because readers expect to see a character arc where Alina grows from a scared passive girl to a strong independent woman, we grow to associate her longing for power as a natural evolution of her character development. However, the narrative wants you to believe Alina's development is not a natural progression of her character but rather a corruption due to her greed from the influence of Morozova's amplifiers.

Bardugo completely fails to set up an alternate character arc for Alina where she may grow in power and strength as a character, but does not become evil along the way. Her heroine's arc is completely strangled by the moral panic of the narrative. This is doubly emphasized by the plot: in order for Alina to defeat the Darkling, she must seek out the amplifiers out of necessity. This is framed as greed. In order for Alina to triumph, she must use all three amplifiers, but when she does, she is punished by the plot. But what other choice did the heroine have? It is not like there was some non-evil alternative for Alina to embrace and she deliberately chose the path of most greed. She is not punished for her actions like her male counterparts who seek power. In fact, you could argue, she can't be punished for her actions because her actions are not coming from a place of choice.

At the end of R&R, Alina is stripped of her powers and lives an ordinary life with Mal. As this is the epilogue, one must assume Bardugo meant for Alina's character arc to end in this way. Her character arc is meant to be a cautionary tale against the evils of seeking too much power. This moral aesop falls flat for a number of reasons:

"Power corrupts" is a popular moral message that it's gotten fairly cliche at this point

It's also so heavy-handed, I don't blame readers for expecting it to be subverted because of how much we were hit over the head with it

The strangely gendered way this moral lesson is delivered raises some eyebrows. Are male characters who are actually power-hungry such as Nikolai, the Apparat, and the Darkling not subject to the same punishments the narrative deals out to Alina?

Most importantly, this aesop clashes with Alina's character

In order for this greed corruption arc to make sense, the heroine really should have been an entirely different character who starts off the series with ambition and a need for power. We needed a heroine like Jude Duarte, Kestrel Trajan, or Aelin Galathynius. Someone who is already established as being capable, ambitious, and ruthless. Granted, I still think this would be a shit character arc because of the long history in which female power is demonized, but at least the arc would make sense for the character in the tradition of tragedies.

However, because Alina starts off the series as being insecure and not yet accepting of herself, we expect to see a character arc where she becomes more confident, emotionally mature, and maybe even a little ruthless. We don't expect her to suddenly become corrupted by greed (a character trait she never had to begin with, especially when she would rather run away and hide with Mal than deal with a geopolitical situation) and get punished for being "too ambitious".

To add to this confusing mess of an arc, Alina suppressing her powers leads to her being weak, fatigued, and malnourished. So she must use her powers in order to be healthy, but using her powers is what directly contributes to the rest of her character arc. The heroine cannot win.

In conclusion, Bardugo wrote a book where a naive scared girl gets manipulated into wearing an evil MacGuffin that turns her "greedy" and then gets punished for it, even though the plot offered her no alternative. Alina never wanted power but because a positive character arc meant a complete descent into villainy, we are left with a regressed version of the character by the end of R&R and a whole bunch of readers left scratching their heads about what the hell we are supposed to take away from this mess of a story.

TL;DR: Alina's character arc does not match who she is as a character. She was given an arc that is usually reserved for anti-heroines and tragic heroes with fatal flaws.

[where-theres-smoak-2]

Also considering how Alina seems being this saviour of Ravka as a burden(though that doesn’t equate hating being Grisha or her powers because that’s not the case!)you would think she would listen more to Aleksander’s POV and decide that keeping the Fold isn’t a bad solution. She can still destroy the Volcra but the Fold as whole could serve as a threat to other countries and could actually leads to the end of the war. At the end she did much worse to Ravka than Aleksander yet he’s the one getting vilified while she gets to reap the benefits of the system that’s abusing her people. What a nice message there,B*rdugo and how convenient that she ends the series(for now)with Zoya being a queen even though she has neither the training nor ability to be a good leader and we have no idea what type of queen she would be.

(Book Spoilers particularly from ROW)

This may be a controversial statement I don't know, and to be completely transparent I am saying this having not read the duology but I honestly think LB made a mistake in going back to the original trilogy characters in the duology. I feel like she should have just left it alone. I mean she had a good thing going with the six of crows characters, from what I can tell people really liked those books and those characters. I can get what she was trying to do, she was a young writer when she wrote the original trilogy and she made some mistakes and wanted to fix them. However from what I've seen of people's reactions to the duology it seems like her trying to fix the mistakes just made those mistakes more obvious and caused alot of contradictions. People expressed their anger at how Alina was stripped of her powers and that this didn't exactly scream female empowerment and so she tried to fix it by making Zoya overpowered but this just highlighted how tragic Alina's fate was. People were upset that there wasn't a grisha on the throne and that it was a Lantsov who even though he was a nice guy was still part of the royal family that had kept the grisha in subjugation, who got the throne. She tried to fix this by putting Zoya on the throne but this didn't make sense because just like how Alina didn't have the training or experience to be general of the second army in S&S Zoya doesn't have the training or experience to be queen. Also I think alot of people felt like it should have been the conclusion of Alina's story, that she should have been that grisha queen and so seeing it go to Zoya, a character that had been mean and unpleasant towards Alina, left a bitter taste in alot of fans mouths. Again it also highlighted just how bad Alina's ending was. The other thing alot of people had an issue with was the darkling's death. So she brings him back and tries to give him a redemption arc. I also find it funny when antis argue that the darkling shouldn't get a redemption arc in the show because he's evil and not every villain should get a redemption. I also find it funny that LB said in an interview that she thinks the darkling is beyond redemption because she literally gave him a redemption arc in ROW! Like correct me if I am wrong because this is based off what others have told me but he sacrifices himself to save everyone else. He went from being someone who the narrative tells us is selfish and power hungry, to someone who makes the ultimate sacrifice in order to spare others lives and save the world, what is that if not a redemption? The definition of a redemption arc is when a antagonist does something to make up for their past sins and mistakes. I feel like suffering through eternal torture to save the world covers that personally. However again this is a fix that doesn't completely satisfy because whilst yes the darkling becomes the self sacrificing hero it is written in a way that, one still serves as more of a punishment and two is begrudgingly given, I mean there's a scene where the 'heroes' debate whether or not they should let him play the part of the hero. To be honest when I read that extract I actually found it really uncomfortable and well icky. I mean it was these same people that had caused the problem in the first place by not listening to the darkling when he said they should destroy the fold they should use it as a tool and weapon against their enemies, now they are mocking the darkling's solution because heaven forbid they let him be seen as a hero for making a sacrifice that will cause him an eternity of endless suffering. I mean when you think about what the darkling was going to have to go through in order to save them all its really appalling to see these supposed heroes talking so callously and with so little empathy about it. It was actually that extract that made me finally decide that I definitely wasn't going to waste my time reading the whole duology. But I really do think it would have been better if she had just left those characters as they were and either focussed on the six of crows or

created a whole new world with new characters. But as always that's just my opinion.

[aleksanderscult]

I have read about more capable heroes being more civil to a lot more heinous villains to solve problems. What do you thinking provoking him in this way would solve? Also yess about the "small victory" 😭. Miss Zoya, what would you have done if he had said no? HE was being reasonable here, you are being childish. Also what a waste to not use him: his experience, advice, allies, spies. Like? Ask him about that. Try to get information from him about that. Then use your own brain to filter it out and sort out the truths from the lies, what is this "you are EVILLLLL" thing going to do in your favour? You are having self doubts but you don't even think to look at him as an example. If ypu think he truly achieved nothing then at least use him as example on what not to do. All of this involves asking him questions like ughh.

We do not need our hero to constantly belittle the villain to seem him as a villain. The hero being able to put aside his pride for the greater good and working out an arrangement with the person he hates is an admirable thing. Which ok, your hero is allowed to not have. But then that is a flaw or ar least just not very heroic. And it's pretty absurd for all of your long list of heroes to have the same fucking flaw. How are they all on the same page. When did they become a hive mind?

THIS!!! THIS!!!

ALL OF THIS, GUYS!!!!

Literally, anon, I have nothing else to add. You explained it PERFECTLY!!

Just like you said, you don't need to have the heroes criticise the villain and point his evil actions and flaws. (Because NO SHIT SHERLOCK WE HAVE EYES AND HAVE ALREADY SAW THEM OURSELVES)

His actions have already spoken for himself and you should let the reader make his own conclusion and opinion about him.

Also:

WE DON'T READ THE FUCKING BOOKS TO GET CRITICIZED FOR LIKING A CHARACTER

BUT TO ENTERTAIN OURSELVES AND FORGET OUR LIFE PROBLEMS!!

Thank you.

Also, agree on how the FUCK ARE THEY ALL ON THE SAME PAGE???

Alina was willing to believe him in the beginning (S&B) but she got brainwashed by her surroundings and then she joined the "We're all right and devoted to good here and that fucker is nothing but EVIL!" gang. Now, how the Hell do they all agree on this, I don't know for the life of me.

And the last thing I want to comment and agree on is that in some other books I've read, things were kind of different.

Harry Potter books: The main character felt bad for Voldemort when he saw his past and understood his motivations based on his parentage and childhood (the "heroes" in the trilogy could never).

Percy Jackson books: At the end of the last book the main character (after killing the villain) decides to end the real problem that began the whole war (something that Alina never did with the Grisha after killing the Darkling).

So, to sum up, I agree with everything, anon. We share the same braincell on this.

[girlriddle]

Some thoughts on Alina’s happy ending in Ruin and Rising (and why it bothers me)

I think Leigh Bardugo kind of wrote herself into a corner. She wanted to give Alina a happy ending, however that was incompatible with the arc she had set out for Alina and beyond that incompatible with the social dynamic of the world she invented. She sent Alina on this big arc of embracing her powers and becoming a Grisha, however she ended the series with Alina losing said powers all over and losing her identity as Grisha, a persecuted group. She portrayed her un-becoming a Grisha as a happy ending, enabling Alina to live a mortal and modest life. One that is not only freed from the persecution Grisha usually experience but also freed of the inherent otherness of the Grisha condition: Her inability to age with her peers and die a peaceful, natural death.

If she let Alina come to the natural conclusion of her arc, Alina would have had the ending of a tragic hero. Remaining the most powerful Grisha thrice amplified, Alina would have outlived not only Mal but everyone else in her life. It would have cast her killing of the Darkling into a much more tragic light. Because in killing him, she would have condemned herself to a life in desperate loneliness. Would she have regrets about killing him in a perhaps selfish desire for one single constant in her eternal life? Would she mourn the loss of true understanding for her condition that only he could have offered? The only other Grisha to share this disposition was the Darkling. And given how he was written as a very black and white villain, it's implied that the very disposition of remaining Grisha, powerful and eternal, inevitably leads to the loss of ones humanity. After all, the Darkling's inhumane and unnatural cruelty was a direct consequence of his eternity. It would have set Alina on the very same path as the main opponent of the narrative, subverting their opposition. A path that might have led to a never-ending and painful loss of Alina's humanity, falling from her heroic arc into one that mirrors the Darkling’s.

So, in order to give Alina a lukewarm happy ending Leigh Bardugo had to shed the entire character arc she had set out for Alina from the start: Alina had to lose her powers that she fought so hard to embrace, she had to lose her identity as a Grisha. In a way this meant writing an ending to Alina as if her whole arc had never happened; Happily married to Mal living a life of limited duration in modesty and blissful distance to the political persecution of Grisha.

Beyond that, there was this whole set up for a political dynamic where the Grisha form a severely oppressed and persecuted group and there was no real resolution to this it in any satisfying way. Alina, as the hero, did nothing to resolve this conflict. She never claimed the power to do so. Power (especially power that isn't justified by bloodline, a ‘divine right to rule’) is portrayed as such an inherently corrupting force; The one other Grisha who actually sought the power to do so was the Darkling and his want for power had led to his demise. His motivation for power could have been so sympathetic. Who wouldn’t want the power to end Grisha persecution? But all reason gets completely overshadowed by his comically evil means of trying to achieve it and a solely egoistical drive for power for its own sake. However, the Darkling was the one and only political agent for radical change directly combating the oppression of Grisha; He was the only one who rejected the status quo and the persecution of his people therein. Meanwhile, Alina acts in defence of and in deference to the Lantsov right to rule and the status quo, as if it is inherently worth saving (even when acknowledging the moral misgivings of the king himself). 

Within this duality of the Darkling (a villain) rejecting the status quo by all evil means possible and Alina (the hero) defending it, the want for radical change gets fundamentally tied to a want for unjustifiable destruction and literal mass murder. Given how that’s an implicit moral rejection of radical change itself, it makes sense that Leigh Bardugo’s idea of a happy ending for Alina was not just a rejection of political power but the loss of any claim to political power by losing her Grisha powers. Because power is only meant to be wielded by those who have always wielded it. Because wanting and having power for radical change means corruption. The persecution of Grisha wouldn’t have spontaneously ended itself over night though. How convenient then, that by making Alina lose her Grisha powers, that we don’t get to see that. Because Alina isn’t Grisha anymore and the oppression of Grisha didn’t matter in the end. Alina can just live on happily and blissfully unaware of any political conflicts for the rest of her life in Keramzin. Who would even care for the nitty gritty details of how or if Grisha persecution ever ended, right?

[thirteenth-fangirl]

The Grishaverse-charas in ✨Therapy✨ (bc they all need it)

So, starting of with the SoC/CK characters

Kaz Brekker : - There bc of his Trauma

- It turns out there are... a few other reaspns why could've been there, HE DIDN'T EVEN KNOW

- His Therapist needs Therapy by the end of it all

-Death-stares therapist sometimes and violently threats people during the sessions (And then I said "I'm going to destroy him brick by brick" and that motherfucker would deserve that I...)

- I can read what you're scribbling down

Inej Ghafa : - There bc of PTSD

- Kaz recommended a therapist

- She didn't even go there

- But doesn't go very long to therapy

-Therapist thinks her and Kaz' relationship isn't very healthy

-Let's just say... she changed Therapists, but really thought about her and Kaz' relationship

-She's come to the conclusion that that therapist was very wrong

Nina Zenik : -Just there to gossip actually

-like there sure are reasons a therapist would be useful, but its not that much

-before Matthias death

-after, everythings different

Matthias :

-Is there bc wants to stop think Grisha are evil

-well just has like 2 or 5 sessions

-then dies

Wylan : - daddy issues

-childhood traume

-self-acceptance

-whole package

Jesper : - gets diagnosed with ADHD in it

-*Rolls into Therepists offive on Rollerbaldes holding Piná colada* Maurice, your not gonna fucking believe this

SaB!

Alina : - like normal. If you can say that

Mal : - Same as Alina Tbh

Darkling : - Defo outlived all of his therepists. Never completed Therapy

-Balmes Baghra

-for everything.

-100%

Zoya : - does not think she needs a therapist but she does

- Genya had to literally trick her into going into Therapy

-But is a bit more chill afterwards

-and dealt with the war-thing

Genya : - *rolls into office on Rollerbaldes with Piná coláda* Maurice, your not gonna fucking believe this

-also, skips session sometimes

-and war-thing. Actually, write "dealt with the war" under any of the SaB charas

David : - barely comes to therapy bc of his work

-has dealt/deals with social anxiety

Nikolai : - *Rolls into Therapists office on Rollerblades* Maurice, your not gonna fucking believe this

- that personality-changing-thing can't be that healthy (I mean I cosplay and stuff and after a bit of time it felt exhausting to change into a charas personality. I still love cosplaying but still)

[gellavonhamster]

what I, being Russian, loved about The Winternight Trilogy

It is obvious that there is a tremendous amount of research on Russian history and culture behind this story. Like, you can feel it. As I started reading the first book, I was sceptical and fully expecting it to be a cartoonish parody of Russian fairytales, but everything turned out to be so authentic and well-written. Now, I am no historian, of course, but just as an average Russian person, I didn’t notice any gross inaccuracies.

CORRECT NAMES! Correct endings of surnames and patronymics! Correct use of full and diminutive forms of first names! I adore Grishaverse, but I couldn’t help cringing at stuff like ‘Aleksander Morozova’ or ‘Alina Starkov’ back when reading TGT because it just sounds unnatural. No such thing here.

Continuing on the topic of names, I absolutely LOVED all the names of horses. Super poetic and fitting. I could nitpick that Tuman hardly seems like a name one would give a female animal because the noun is masculine in Russian, but whatever, it’s beautiful. 

The great variety of mythical creatures and the way they are described - not evil, but clearly having different notions of morality than humans, yet willing to cooperate when treated with respect. I guess deep down I am still a little kid who used to put cookies under the cupboard wishing to find out if our apartment has a domovoi, and that kid is absolutely delighted at how the chyerti are portrayed in these books. I also appreciated the note in the glossary to TWotW on why the term ‘chyerti’ was chosen to refer to all mythical creatures in the novels: it is not the word most Russian speakers would use as a collective noun for all spirits, but I can see the reasoning behind using it in this sense in this particular case.

Speaking of which, glossaries! An excellent idea, more fantasy novels should have them 

The way the real historical events, such as the Battle of Kulikovo, are interwoven into the fantasy narrative

Beautifully translated Pushkin’s poems in the epigraphs

References to so many well-known and well-loved Russian folk tales, and the way all these tales are connected in the story 

Iconic characters from Russian folklore making an appearance or at least being mentioned (when I thought these books can’t surprise me anymore, they brought up Chernomor and I was like !!!!!)

DED GRIB BEING A SHOUT-OUT TO MOROZKO (1964)

(I immediately thought of this movie when this character was introduced, but then I thought “no way it’s because of the movie, he must’ve been somewhere in the original faitytales, but I forgot” but NOPE he’s a reference to that movie, I was right)

When Russian words are used, they are transcribed correctly (at least, if there are any mistakes, they aren’t bad enough to catch my eye)

Apparently Katherine Arden mentioned on Twitter that Vasya’s physical description is based on the painting The Swan Princess by Mikhail Vrubel? How cool is that???

Just how well-written in general these books are, and with how much respect Russian culture is treated (much more than I expected, tbh)

In conclusion: HIGHLY recommend

[cardigantaylor13]

Its so frustrating seeing mal hate and the things said about him are just blatantly untrue. I swear ppl will completely twist his actions into being evil or toxic and manipulative when its just not...

SO TRUE ANON ITS THE MOST FRUSTRATING THING EVER

I truly think mal oretsev might be the most unreasonably overheated character in literature. they take all his quotes out of context. they twist everything he does. and blatantly ignore core characteristics of his character. calling him selfish??? and possessive??? read the books again PLEASE. there is no way you could’ve reached that conclusion by reading the same books I read. there’s just no way.

he’s selfless and wholesome and loyal and he loves alina more than anything in the world. he became a traitor of the army for her. he will do whatever she asks even if he doesn’t completely agree with her. he’s been by her side from the start and not once left her. yes, he makes some poor decision in s&s. he was HURTING. his best friend (whom he’s known his whole life) is being turned into something completely different, he’s scared she’s getting corrupted by power and he is being treated like dirt by everyone else. that hardly makes him EVIL.

anyways I love mal oretsev and I’ll defend him until the day I die.