#AND /agatha's/ trial - alice's sacrifice to save agatha

[aparticularbandit]

If Rio is Death and is after Billy for escaping his death.

If Rio cannot kill Agatha.

If they maintain the end of the initial Road story.

I think we might see an Agatha sacrifice for Billy.

Because she would be keeping him alive when she couldn't keep Nicholas alive.

Because dying might mean she could be with Rio.

Because finding a way to reverse her siphoning would mean that she can control it.

Because Rio cannot kill Agatha.

(Rio cannot kill; Rio takes what is already dead.)

Because if Agatha dies, Billy can probably bring her back.

If Billy dies, Agatha cannot bring him back.

[child-of-the-danube]

MASSIVE AGATHA ALL ALONG SPOILERS SO SKIP IF YOU HAVEN'T SEEN THE EPISODE

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Time to yap, my sisters in the craft 🔮🧙🏻‍♀️

Positives of the final two episodes:

1. Jen finally being free

2. Agatha showing she actually learned from her coven in her final battle with Rio - she used Alice's protection spell, Jen's moon water spell and listened to Lilia's advice about hitting the deck

3. The parallels of Agatha and her coven:

- She was in the same situation as Lorna. A mother who knew her child was doomed from the start and did everything in her power to protect them and keep them alive for as long as she could, only for it to be fruitless in the end. And despite it being fruitless, the children did feel the love and were aware of the sacrifice, and sometimes that is enough. Alice and Nicky's memory will forever live through the songs their mothers made for and with them. The memory of their love outlived both them and their children and will keep on living on for long after.

- She chose to give her life for someone she just met but clearly felt strongly for the same way Lilia did. A lifetime of running from Death. A lifetime of collecting knowlegde for it to appear useless. A lifetime of seeing Death everywhere, of being persued by her, of being lonely and heartbroken with grief. And then going out by embracing Death by your own will to give another a chance and do at least once what you failed to do for centuries - protect.

- Her and Billy making a story come to life out of love and grief for their family. She set the foundation and he made it come to realisation. Both took away from others but only one gets be exempt from the consequences and able to achieve what they were after from the start.

4. Agatha being the happiest she's ever been when Nicky was with her

5. The acceptance in her voice when she says "Sometimes...boys die"

6. The fact that the dandelion seed in Nicky's hair that she kept for centuries saved her in the final trial oh my god 😭 😭

7. Agatha's love for Nicky being so strong that a silly little song they made together became world known. "You...I made from scratch" AAAAAAAAAAAAA

8. She calls her power "my purple" cause Nicky called it so 💔💔

9. THE KISS

10. Showing that it was Agatha's desire to keep Nicky alive and later on when he died her grief turning her to addiction that caused her to become this famous witch killer. She was never purely evil. What she did was, and it is not an excuse, but still. The parallels between her and Wanda being ready to destroy entire worlds and lives just to get their children back... A mother's love can make whole valleys bloom but it can also make mountains crumble to dust and my heart is not ok

11. Agatha doing for Billy what she couldn't do for her own son. Giving him a chance to live

12. Ghost Agatha's first move being annoying her adoptive son lmao

13. The road's entrance becoming a memorial to Sharon, Alice and Lilia

14. Billy getting the wake up call that he is not so different from Agatha or Wanda. His grief created a literal death trap and consequently killed Sharon, Alice and Lilia, even if Agatha is telling him Alice was her doing and Lilia was by her own choice

15. Agatha finding her purpose as a mentor in death

Negatives:

1. We were cheated out of a proper Agatha and Rio backstory. How did they meet? How did they fall in love? What happened in the centuries between Nicky's death and entering the road? How often did Rio come to Agatha for Agatha to be so clear about the one thing she wants when she passes being not seeing Rio? She is Death's only exception, only love, only scar. WE DESERVED MORE!!! How did Agatha bag a literal god????

2. Once again, a story that started out and was marketed as a story of women ends up being just means to help a man's story build up. I mean, I should have expected that but still leaves a bitter taste. Wiccan is an interesting character but I feel cheated out of knowing more about Jen. I wanted her backstory before being bound. I wanted Agatha pre-Salem trial and post Nicky's death for more than a power draining sequence through the ages. I wanted Agatha and Rio developing this bond that held up for 300 years. I wanted the Salem Seven to be more than a 5 second threat. Billy will get his own show anyway, like come on.

3. In connection to that, I know this one is a very subjective sentiment and I understand completely but it still pisses me off to no end. The fact that these witches, these centuries old women, who all had being covenless, lonely and in dire situations with their powers in common, went on this death wish trip with someone they didn't like at all as a last resort and got what they were lacking, learned to care for eachother, got their powers back, and that Agatha had the possibility to finally have a family and people genuinely care for her, turned out to be practically worthless in the end cause they had like 5mins of it is making me go insane. Alice said it best: "This is it? I was finally able to do something with my life and this is all the time I get?". The only one, aside Jen, coming out alive and having time to bask in the glow of his new-found power AND have the chance to do something with it is a fucking teenage boy who already got the privilege of cheating Death and the privilege of his family members still be somewhere out in reach to search for. The finale said "your life, struggles and resolution were just means to get someone else ahead". Call me a misandrist, so be it, but I'm fucking tired. Is one story where women are the focus and have a happy ending so fucking much to ask for????

4. THE KISS cause at what cost??? I repeat, this was the fastest, literal, bury your gays move I've ever seen. We knew it couldn't possibly end well, but damn. However, kudos to Kathryn and Aubrey making it so hungry and desperate, but also soft and real and full of emotion.

5. Billy being a dick and wanting to send Agatha back to "Rio's toxic embrace" like he didn't just watch her give up her life for him and tell her that she's "not that bad". My boy, you are truly strange in your holier than thou attitude sometimes

[good-day-batey]

Absolutely going crazy about how Agatha All Along is about relationships with mothers (and honestly family, but I like it being mothers, can you tell I have mommy issues?).

With the Salem Seven, are the children of the ones that trialled and wanted to execute Agatha. Having grown resentful and vengeful of what Agatha did to their mothers, they have come after her, in her weakest she has been. Perhaps just like how their mothers and Evanora did to her daughter during her trial.

With Lorna Wu doing everything she can to protect Alice with this generational curse between women--daughters of her clan. Going on tours and tours to get her song-her spell to be heard because just as long as it is remembered, Alice will be protected. Which succeeded, and Alice died with her own terms in protecting her Coven.

With Agatha first and foremost being hated and seen as evil by her mother, and then being seen/rumored as this wicked witch (get it cause she's dressed up as the wicked witch of the east in ep 7 ha) who gave up her son for the book of the dammed, when in reality that can't be the case with all of the hints we've seen with her and Nicholas. And then seeing this boy-- this Teen who just broke into her house, broke her out of the Scarlet Witch spell, got to know him more and see him as a child to be protected once more, unlike perhaps do what she couldn't do with her own son. That she will to this kid who may have been the son of the woman who trapped her for 3 years, and basically "deceived" her all throughout the journey, but is nonetheless proud. Proud in seeing him take the opportunity to survive and grow up when he was supposed to die, as Billy Maximoff and even as William Kaplan

With Rio, who loves and is just as much of a mother to Nicholas, but is obligated to her job that she cannot abandon, making her do something that she doesn't want to someone she loves (both to Nicky and Agatha).

And to Billy, as a Maximoff and as a Kaplan. With Wanda, creating him and Tommy out of nothing but her powers and a desire for love and family, to her having to take everything she wants down and to her going through the multiverse to find her children only to find out that the twins of that universe already have a mother that is loving and isn't blindsided by the grief and the control of the darkhold that won't accept albit scared with what has she became . Too blinded by the grief and corruption, she didn't notice that her love presevered and saved the body this dying child. And with Rebecca Kaplan, despite basically grieving the death of her son because he can't see her boy in him anymore because of the amnesia (or literally with William dying and Billy taking over), she hasn't given up on this child. Having kept him safe in whichever way she can and in the process making Billy see her as her mother, giving the Kaplans more time with him rather than dying in William's bar mitzvah.

And lastly, with Lilia (I'll always love you), having the power and knowledge, she has basically been the mother of the coven. Always trying to save the people from the demise she has no control of seeing and failing to do, such as the curse of seeing divination just like in her first coven. She has accepted her fate of being a witch by having her final act saving her current coven, sacrificing herself, and loving to do so in the process. Such as a mother ready to sacrifice herself for those they love.

I have so much more yapping especially with Lilia and ep 7 (and Jen but we don't have her backstory yet so) but its honest to God 1:33 am in my place and i need to sleep 😴😴

[marsischilling]

OK HOT TAKE TIME

I don’t think that Billy was responsible for anyone’s deaths. He may have brought the vessel, but there were reasons as to why each person was there that was fulfilled on the road.

Sharon

Sharon experienced pain at the hands of Wanda, as well as the cards life had thrown her as well. She’s a widower, she clearly is scarred from the hex, she’s obviously unhappy with where she’s at, bc she kept saying “it’s been so long since I’ve been to a party!” Or “I’ve had a day” or the like. Her story had functionally ended, narratively of course, and while the best case scenario was to send her home, she had learned everything that she could.

Alice

Alice spent her entire life afraid of the curse, angry at her mother and shrouded in grief. Her death, in contrast, was a defensive move instead liof an offensive one like she’s used to (she’s an ex cop after all). She, as a protection witch, had fulfilled her duty to protect her coven, and had been released from a curse that had been placed upon her bloodline. As she said herself, she wasn’t ready, but she had no other narrative purpose other than a mentor which was filled. She was however my favorite character 🫶🫶🫶

Lillia

Lillia lived a life stuck in time, out of order, no way to prevent anything or have anyone take her seriously. She not only most likely knew the road was illusion, she knew that there was no prize. Her prize was being able to fill in the gaps, and then sacrifice herself to save the others. She knew fully well what would happen and she did it anyways.

All in all, everyone (except Agatha) left with a prize or a fulfillment of some sort. Billy is not at fault for all of their deaths. Maybe only Mrs. Davis’s if we’re being honest, but not for lack of trying to help against the trial. He had no idea the road was his Hex, so to look at his actions like he was aware the whole time isn’t truthful nor fair

[ioletia]

I don't think I have the time or desire to write it, but...

I'd like to see an alternate universe where Sharon Davis doesn't die. Sharon ends up being instrumental in saving every member of the coven from dying. In the end, everyone lives and as a coven they have to fight Death to save Billy. But, even with the now fully realized green witch in Sharon Davis, they can't beat her. Agatha makes the decision to sacrifice herself to Death to save her coven. Agatha, of course, comes back as a ghost to join the coven in teaching a brand new fledgling witch- Billy/Wiccan.

I HAD SOME TIME! I wrote a snippet of what could have happened in the third trial if Sharon hadn't died.

Continuing from Episode 5...

"Don't leave me, I can be good!" Agatha begged.

Seeing her opportunity, Evanora slid forward taking Agatha's body for herself. Agatha's skin blanched, the dark outlines of veins coming to rest on her skin's surface. The possession was complete.

"No, not again," murmured Lilia, her eyes glassing over for a brief instant.

A smirk played across Agtha's face before erupting into a full bodied shriek. The possessed body lurched, arms outstretched, mouth wide.

"Leave her alone!" Alice rushed forward, pushing past the stunned coven members. Her arms braced, instinct taking over. Fire formed at her finger tips.

"Now stop this!" Sharon yelled as she strode forward.

"Wait, no-" Alice said as her arms were pushed down by the determined woman, the fire fizzling away.

The possessed Agatha glared down at the fledgling coven member, her mouth dripping saliva and hatred. The lights flickered. Agatha lunged.

Alice's hands burst with flaming hot energy. Lilia's mouth opened to scream. Teen's eyes went wide. And Jen's normally angry demeanor broke into something close to fear.

Smack.

The sharp rasp on flesh hitting flesh rang out in the room. A deathly stillness took over. Sharon's hand was outstretched. It hung in the air just off to the left of Agatha's face, a sharp red imprint glowing on the possessed witch's cheek.

"Now you listen here!" Sharron dropped her hand into an accusatory finger. "Now your daughter may have kidnapped me down to this road. And she may have almost gotten me killed twice."

"Three times," Jen added gaining a side eye from Lilia and a shushing from Teen.

"But she is not evil!" Sharon continued. "She may be selfish and have terrible manners, but you're her mother! Where do you think she learned this! Maybe you should have taken some child care classes. In fact, I know this lovely lady down on First street that runs-"

"I think she's gone now," Agatha said cutting the enlivened center of Westview's culture off. The color had returned to Agatha's face, her veins receding back into her skin's normal pallor- save for the distinct impression of a well manicured hand.

"Oh," said Sharron as her eyes fell across the damage she had done. "I'm sorry-"

"No, thank you," Agatha began. "Sharon."

"You remembered! Oh, your memory is coming back," Sharon exclaimed much to Agatha's annoyance.

"Yes, but that's not going to matter much soon. We're almost out of time," Jen interjected.

Everyone looked down to their vibrantly colored plastic watches. Each liquid crystal display continued counting down. Less than thirty seconds remained.

"But we punished Agatha!" Alice yelled.

"Sharon slap her again!" Jen retorted.

"No, no, no, I don't think so." Agatha said as she backed up a step.

"We never said goodbye," Teen announced as he dove for the toppled Ouija board. The planchette had magically stuck to the board through all the chaos.

"Five seconds!" Lilia screeched. But, Teen's hands were already moving. The planchette was light. It flew through the alphabet to land on goodbye just as a collective alarm on the watches rang out.

"Did we-" But Alice's question was cut off. A dull thunk clattered from a nearby wall. The nearby bookshelf unceremoniously unfurled into a short staircase leading out.

"Well, on to the next trial!" Agatha beamed as she strode for the exit as a collective sigh flowed from the rest of the coven.

[musingsofaraven]

A collection of random rambling musings and thoughts about Agatha All Along and possibly where the show is going. So if you don’t want possible spoilers, look away.

I don’t think Teen is intentionally harming anyone, but I do think he’s using opportunities to try to let the others let him “join” the coven, because he very much has something he wants by completing the Road.

I saw someone postulate that the way episode 5 ended with the deliberate slowing down of lines being delivered and the way Agatha and Teen were filmed meant that the show was going to start focusing more on Teen as the lead, but I think that’s not very likely. One reason is there was an interview with Jac Schaeffer where she was talking about how they were playing around with leaking different titles to the show, but it was always intended to be titled “Agatha All Along” because the focus of the story *is* Agatha. And also, this show is so incredibly focused on women’s relationships with and to each other, why would they make such a heel turn to focusing on the one guy character? Knowing who Teen is now, there’s no way he won’t be in future Marvel productions. They don’t need to make him the whole focus of the show.

Part of the reason so much was happening in the episode 5 “test” was because they weren’t paying attention to the rules of the Ouija board. It clearly said that once a contact was done, you had to say “goodbye.”

But none of them ever did that.

We had Agatha doing a fake Sharon, someone (👀) spelled out “death” which made Rio laugh, and then Agatha really was possessed by her mother, but none of them moved the window piece to the goodbye.

But Nicholas Scratch did.

He saved his mother. His calling out to her distracted Agatha from continuing to drain Alice. It was too late, but she did stop.

And then he moved the window piece to “goodbye” ending the trial.

We’re at the midpoint of the story, and that’s usually where the main character is at their lowest.

What if the point of this test-ish thing was to drag Agatha to that low point? But at the same time give her the tools to rise out of it?

She heard her son call out to her to stop what she was doing, and then said “goodbye” to her. So, it’s 100% confirmed for Agatha now that he’s still dead.

Then you have Teen, who she’s figured out that he’s Wanda’s son, and she’s thinking about all of the actions and possible manipulations he’s done, which were so like his mother (another low point for her being the events of WandaVision).

We’ve seen Agatha almost obsess over her son. In her fake world, she’d go and look at his room. She named her rabbit after him. She *hoped* that Teen was gonna be him.

So what’s the turn she’s going to have? Maybe it’s her needing to say goodbye to Nicholas and let herself start to heal. Maybe it’s also growing closer and building a better relationship with Teen in order to somewhat repair the divide between her and Wanda?

I would bet MONEY that we’re going to see what actually happened with Nicholas’ death, and I would also bet money (but less of it) on it being a tragedy, not something where she directly murdered him (at least with the intent to murder him). At worst, I think it could be a scenario where she’s told in order to get power she had to sacrifice her son, but she thought she could outwit the agreement. But I still don’t think she was the one to kill him. I think it’s a bit more likely that Agatha got the powers, she truly couldn’t control them (and she wasn’t lying to Teen in the last episode), and some accident happened where Nicholas was killed. They’ve been setting up the whole thing of Agatha not really being in control of the power just enough for me to think that has to come into play again.

And Rio had to do her job, which Agatha resented her for, and it harmed their relationship. I would also bet money on Rio having been in a relationship with Agatha at the time of Nicholas’ death. Rio certainly knows Agatha’s mother and is INCREDIBLY protective of Agatha against her mother. Maybe their queer relationship is why Agatha’s mother was so cruel to her in episode 5, and why she was so certain in the WandaVision flashbacks that Agatha was evil. Queerness was considered worse than adultery in puritanical New England, and would bring a death penalty.

And part of what this show is doing is showing how women were persecuted in history for being themselves, but that each of those things were actually strengths. Jen with being a midwife and rootworker, and it’s those things which Agatha outright tells her were *so important* and why she left her alone, and it was Jen drawing on that knowledge that passed that trial. And Alice’s was the relationship with her mother, and it was her healing that internal relationship with her mother that passed the trial. So why not showing Agatha and Rio being persecuted for being queer, and the way they pass that trial is healing that relationship?

But I don’t think that’s Agatha’s trial. I think that’s Rio’s trial.

So I think the final trials are:

- Lilia and healing her from her persecution for divination.

- Rio and healing the relationship with Agatha connected to their persecution for their relationship.

- And Agatha finally starting to heal from the death of Nicholas by making a connection with Teen.

And yeah. Thinky thoughts and random musings done for the night.

I’m REALLY enjoying this show

[americana-gothic]

I had to admit the first half of the first episode was too long and drawn out for me. Though by the third episode I was already committed. The theme was pretty evident. Billy and Agatha wanted to go down the Witches Road and gathered a coven of Down and Out witches, who happened to be Covenless.

Probably because the last ones didn't work out. I'm guessing that Jen will have to make a sacrifice next. Though will she die like Lilia and Alice? I was really bummed out that Alice died. Considering she wasn't that old. If she was a child in the 70's haunted by her family's curse. Then manages to break her family's curse just to die in the next episode. :( That's messed up shit, didn't even get to enjoy her witchy freedom without her family curse.

Lilia got to live a long life. However, due to her inability to control her powers, and failed attempts to save people from Death, locked herself away from most of the world, probably for a very long time. Only to get a grip one last time and die.

So, Agatha didn't die in her trial. I don't know why I feel like the first trial was actually Mrs. Hart's trial, which she died...in her dream kitchen. Who knows maybe it was Jen's trial and she survived. I don't know, I just want a happy ending for these ladies. If Disney was smart, making Agatha a ( neutral ) character would be ideal. It leaves the audience guessing and it doesn't disappoint, when she does something evil or good. LOL.

Also, I'm actually impressed that some of their occult info is accurate.

[fuesch]

Agatha All Along 1x08, part 2

And a bit of PM truthering at the very end.

- Whoa, Jen really was bound! By Agatha! Ha, so I was right, she didn't get unbound by just finishing her own trial.

- Wait, in the last trial once you get from the Road what you came for, you get to leave it? So the end of the Road is individual instead of everyone together getting through the last task. Huh. Ugh, why did it have to be only the last trial though? Alice and Lilia could have lived!

- Billy doesn't know how he brought himself back and now Agatha's gonna help him find out, just like she helped Wanda find out how she brought "back" Vision. How very episode 8 of them, ha.

- Is Billy getting all his Hex memories back or just the last minutes? And what about William's?

- Soooo... did Tommy just spend 3 years bodylessly floating around? Was he hibernating in William's body? Or is Billy finding Tommy a new body just another memory Agatha helps recover?

- "Am I killing this boy so my brother can live?" - "No, Billy... sometimes boys die." Ouch. And he didn't get to hear it!

- Pfft, John Collins just going "oh" as Westview's sky is glowing in an unatural color again.

- Oh wow, hell hath no fury like a Death scorned.

- I like that Agatha seems to have learned that there's magic other than her purple.

- *sigh* Those sparks flying made me think Alice was back, because they're something fiery, kinda orange and a protection witch would be useful in that moment. But hey, Billy to the rescue!

- Idk about that costume. The visual weight feels off: The hood makes his legs look extra skinny.

- "Don't take it all." and she actually stops! How, what, why all of a sudden?!?! Because she had nothing no magic to begin with? Because he reminds her of her son? Because he's so powerful that he managed to telepathically stop her? Because he got his magic from Wanda who got it from Agatha, so there was a difference and natural stopping point between their magic? No wait, strike that last one, that would be a timey-wimey mess. Anyway: What???

- So nice to see Agatha in her contume again!

- "Power looks good on you." - "Honey, everything looks good on me."

- "You're not bad." - "Neither are you." - "You're the only one who thinks so." What if right here we have the thing that makes her see Nicky in Billy?

- Agatha's back and forth confused me. She was ready to sacrifice herself for Billy, but then he surrenders and Agatha is cool with it - until he asks about Nicky's death again. But Nicky was invoked (so to speak) just a few seconds ago, so why was mentioning him different? Honestly, I thought Billy going from "you're not bad" to "Did you let Death have your son to save your own life?" would make Agatha even more willing to sacrifice Billy. But I guess she wanted to prove herself instead, that she hadn't traded away Nicky's life nor would she do that to Billy.

- Huh, a literal kiss of death. But I wanted mentor!Agatha! And she only just finally got her power back! Okay, so what's Agatha secret plan? She must have gotten around it somehow.

- Pfft, Billy with the walk of shame as if he had perpetrated something. ...Oh okay, I guess he thinks he's gotten Agatha killed, but idk, the scale between the Hex and this feels so different. Not that he would be very aware of that. And Agatha can't be dead. He doesn't seem to know that either.

- Pfft, instead of flying away he mundanely gets into his car.

- And finally the time question has been answered. Billy has only been gone for 24 hours, phew.

- Jeez, Marvel, no need to linger on shirtless Billy just to please horny fans. Stop giving guys paranoia about their bodies. I will murder you on this hill.

- What a wonderfully executed reveleation. Holy shit, the Witches' Road is actually Billy's creation?! I mean, I had encountered the thoery, but I hadn't believed it, because I didn't think he'd be that powerful. Oh, you weren't playing Death's game, therefore she wouldn't reward you with bringing back people (even if they had died on the Road) if you won.

- "Boo"?! I was already worried about having another episode - without the title character! Phew.

- Interesting that Billy couldn't give Agatha her magic via the Road and had to blast her instead. That works with my theory that you can't just hand out powers, therefore "Ralph" superspeeding in WV 1x09 means he's Peter Maximoff. Oh, I love it when there's more support for my truthering!