#.....yes i tag it spoilers no harm in caution

[cowboyskeletons]

thinking about my au where after the trial the dads are actually just transported into another universe where jodie was transplanted and they replaced their alt-universe selves.

so there are small details that the kids notice (except for nicholas) that are kinda... off, but it's not big enough of a shift to notice until reminiscing about childhood memories and like it doesn't matter (it does matter but that's only half of the story)

point is that without them, their home universe kinda crumbles, as the narrative is about Them and why even exist if there's no purpose? so everyone kinda just fades away over a short span of time (thinking around a week) as the world loses its flavor.

....buuuut nick's still there.

because the dads are The Dads, right. it's their defining characteristic. they need to have children to be dads (if the child is dead it doesn't matter, just needs to exist in the universe). the children are... kind of like anchors.

so if their children stopped existing, what then? well, it was a simple solution-- they got linked to the new verse kids. done done. new anchor, continued existence, "forever" relevance, hoorah.

only problem is that glenn doesn't have a kid. and he's not a dad anymore. so like, what's the point of his being there? nicholas is technically completely unrelated to him. in the new verse, it's said that he's darryl's friend who's just. there. in-auniverse and in a more meta concept sense, he really shouldn't have been there.

(eventually, glenn won't need an anchor anymore because of the relationship he develops with nicky but for now he needs a weight to assert his existence in the narrative)

erasing him from existence kind of goes against the court ruling because then why all the shenanigans. so he still has an anchor, though the new universe is unaware of it

so nick is still there.

nick is... not fully what he used to be. he seems overall the same, but he's in a sort of... stasis? like the most obvious effect is not aging but there are mental effects too. his and glenn's relationship and place in the world can't really change, so he doesn't.

he's like an ice sculpture now metaphorically-- fading like the rest of the world, but his process is slower because he's connected to glenn and he's still important to the story. he has approximately until the s1 finale until he starts getting into the danger zone. the worlds aren't exactly synced up time-wise, but time shifts and flows and the universes drift so there's never a concrete ratio-- usually worlds sync by story beat but. yea

so he's just wandering the world as it breaks apart. he's the only reason that it's still there, actually-- it becomes weaker as he does, as it loses its purpose completely.

by some chance, nicholas manages to contact nick then Stuff Happens.

cue shenanigans, primarily with nicholas and nick but several other people come into play too like glenn and jodie and morgan

(yes nick still dies in the end but there is Closure with the family okay. can't spell closure without close. do you get it)

[pallaswords]

Together

Original Work (The Strange Life of One August Glass)

WC: 679 words

Warnings: implied transphobia, vague violence due to said implied transphobia

 Y’all this is so far into August’s story that I’m not even considering it spoilers. I vibe with this, despite the lack of editing, but I’m going to overhaul this for sure. All in all this was a really fun exercise!

As a note: The Strange Life of One August Glass is a Historical Fiction / Romance / Supernatural/Horror set in the late 1890s in England. So that’s why they sound like they do.

[Image Description: a black banner with white lines on the background. In the center, #FFF87 I will be strong is written in white letters. End ID.]

“So,” came the voice — voices? — like tendrils from the inky black forest, “you have come. You have come and are here with a request. For me.”

August tightened his grip on Benjamine’s hand. He felt him squeeze back, but kept his gaze towards the looming trees. He could do this. They could do this. Together.

“Yes,” August said. “We have come with a request for your aid —”

The voice(s) laughed, echoing all around them. There was no directional source, no epicentre. It simply was.

Until it was not.

Silence, deep and dark as the forest itself engulfed them. No nightbirds, nor bugs, nor wind whispering through boughs and leaves. Silence so oppressive that it seemed to produce its own noise, a low thrumming hum in the back of his skull.

Benjamine squeezed his hand again — when had it started to tremble? When had he started to tremble?

August took a deep breath, then another, hoping to calm himself — but the air smelled off. The pine and petrichor muted, dulled and soured by some unknown and unidentifiable something.

He was trembling again.

“Come now, enough of this game,” Benjamine’s voice sliced through the silence, with an air of confidence that August knew he did not possess. “We not only request aid, but wish to share information.”

“Pah,” the voice(s) dismissed. “Mortals, what knowledge do you possess that I do not? Surely nothing that I am not aware of.”

“The group claiming to follow the Old Ways —”

“Are but flies flocking to a carcass, long since passed on,” the voice(s) said, near-amusement tinting the words. “No, I know them well. They and their gods mean little harm to me. This is not your request. Tell me now, and you may live.”

August stilled, trembling no more. Somehow, in some way, receiving a threat upon his life was a comfort, a familiarity. It reminded him of assholes in pubs and at Benjamine’s literary conferences alike who had cornered him, beat him, left him for dead in a back alleyway for daring to be himself — a man. He was weak then.

Now he was not.

His spine straightened and he stared directly ahead. “Esteemed One, you are a champion of outcasts, are you not?”

That laughter, omnipresent yet untraceable, came again. But the voice(s) did not speak once the laughter tapered off.

“We ourselves are outcasts, yes, but it is not we directly who need your aid. We come on behalf of the Blackwood name, for assistance and for guidance for the head of the Blackwood Estate.” August spoke clearly, with a confidence he felt — a confidence that radiated outwards. He felt Benjamine squeeze his hand. He squeezed back, not looking away from the woods.

The voice(s) hummed. August felt as if a gaze were sweeping over him, appraising him, much like one would an antique. The voice(s) hummed again.

“Does your Scholar speak for you, Nobleman?” the voice(s) asked.

“In this instance, as we are in agreement, yes,” Benjamine said. “But I will speak for myself moving forward, unless otherwise stated.”

More humming, more appraisal.

“My trials will not be easy,” the voice(s) cautioned.

“Life is not easy,” August said. “What are your trials, Esteemed One?”

A short snap of laughter. “You will find out. Enter my forest. You will find them, or they will find you.”

August glanced at Benjamine to see his face set in determination. Benjamine, as if sensing the other’s gaze, looked over to him. August gave a nod. Benjamine returned it.

“I concede to your trials,” August said.

“I concede to your trials as well,” Benjamine echoed.

“Come, my wayward souls, into my forest,” the voice(s) said, a whisper of a breeze.

Together, they started forward, hands joined.

Together, they stepped into the inky black of the forest.

Together. They could do this. Together.

I will be strong. We will be strong, August thought, a determined set to his brow as the welcoming arms of the forest engulfed them both.

--------------

Thank you for reading and I hope that you enjoyed this! 

If you’d like to learn more about The Strange Life of One August Glass, you can visit the page and the aesthetics/inspo tag on my blog. If you’d like to be added to the taglist for updates/excerpts/etc. about it, send me an ask!

[dudeandduchess]

Sweetest Sin [Rengoku Kyoujuro x F!Reader] Chapter 3

Rating: SFW Characters: Rengoku Kyōjurō x F!Reader Chapters: 5/5 Summary: A written collection of all the times when Rengoku proposed to his then-lover, who eventually gave in and became his wife. Chapter Word Count: 3,167 Tags: Smut, Fluff, Short Series, Fingering, Creampie, Established Relationship, Marriage Proposal, Mild Manga Spoilers (Very mild, I promise), Impregnation, Finger Sucking, Praise Kink, Dirty Talk, Light Dom/sub, Light Bondage, Tsundere Reader, Angst

Note: Hello, everyone! This chapter has a different tone compared to all the other chapters. I guess you can say that it's a bittersweet chapter. So, just a word of caution if you're not feeling up to reading something angsty. Thank you so much for reading! Hope you guys like it. <3

***SFW***

It wasn’t like Oyakata-sama to have made a mistake, so surely (Y/n) believed that he had sent her there for a reason. She had heard that he had the power of foresight, and even if that weren’t true, he would never willingly put her in danger.

‘So there must be a logical reason,’ (Y/n) thought to herself, as she looked up the snowy mountain that used to be her home.

Fear immediately gripped her heart when her crow told her to head to the eternally snow-covered mountain, and she couldn’t help but think that the worst had happened while on her way there.

Because she might have been estranged from her family, but that didn’t mean that she stopped caring about them. And to have been sent there because of a demon attack was enough to shake her to the core.

She had wanted to talk to Rengoku before she left, as she lived close to his home, but he wasn’t there when she arrived at his house. Senjurō was the one who had answered the door and, with a blush, she accepted the letter that her lover had left for her.

In the letter, he said that he had to leave for a mission of his own, and that he regretted not being able to say goodbye to her. But that was usual for him; what was very different with that letter, was the fact that he had included an omamori with it. 

She had to suppress a smile when she saw that it was a charm for a healthy pregnancy.

True to her answer, she had been seriously thinking about his proposal. Of course she wanted to get married to him, but she had to figure out a way to make it happen— even without her father’s approval. 

And that was when it clicked inside her head: she never would have come back to her home, had Oyakata-sama not sent her there on a mission. So, after steeling her nerves, she marched towards the thicket of trees— back to the little snow-covered town where she grew up. 

The trip up the mountain was longer than (Y/n) remembered, or maybe it had to do with the fact that the last time she was there, she had been running down the steep slopes, hand-in-hand with Rengoku.

She could still remember that day like it had just happened yesterday, even though it had already been three years since that day. She was seventeen back then, and very in love with the boy she had practically grown up with.

During the harshest winter storms, she and her siblings— along with their mother— would go down the mountain to live with her mother’s parents; in the same town where the Rengoku family lived.

At first, she tried to avoid the exuberant blond who kept following her around, but he inevitably wore down her defenses and wormed his way into her heart. Years passed and they were practically glued together when (Y/n) stayed with her grandparents. 

And eventually, she had to move in with her mother’s parents so that she could get a proper education— which only brought her and Kyōjurō even closer. She thought that the attraction she felt towards him was merely nothing more than that but, eventually he confessed to her and asked her to choose him.

To stay with him, so they could grow old together. 

And of course, she pleaded with her father to let her be with Kyōjurō; but things didn’t exactly work out in her favor, so they opted for their last option: to run away together.

They didn’t get very far until (Y/n)’s grandparents and Kyōjurō’s father caught them. But (Y/n) was adamant about staying with her young love, so she was put in her grandparents’ care. Until they passed away three years ago.

She thought that she was going to have to permanently move back to Yukiyama because she would no longer have caretakers, least of all a house to live in, but she was proven wrong when she found her grandmother’s will. 

The house and all of their other possessions were all handed down to her. Not her mother, but her.

Because, as her grandmother had said in her letter, she deserved to be happy with someone who loved her just as much— if not more— than she did them.

Slowly, the faintest of smiles tilted up the corners of the (h/c) haired woman’s lips, until it was wiped away by the putrid stench of a demon nearby.

Instantly, (Y/n) got her naginata from where it was strapped across her back, before ducking down into a defensive stance. She didn’t know what kind of demon she was up against, but it couldn’t have been a weak one if Oyakata-sama had to send a Kinoe to dispose of it. 

Yet, she was proven wrong when she wrapped up the demon in practically no time at all. One stab at it with the spike at the other end of her naginata did the trick, as the sharp end had a small chamber where it was constantly being fed with wisteria poison. 

So, it seemed that she wasn’t there for the demon, after all; but for a much riskier challenge. 

The challenge of talking to her father.

(Y/n) wanted to turn tail and run, but was tethered to where she stood by the motivating idea that she could finally say yes to Rengoku, after she finally renounced herself from her family.

It was the only solution she could think of, as securing her father’s approval would be more difficult than defeating Kibutsuji himself.

And so, with a determined stride, she traversed the familiar path towards the temple at the edge of the town.

 ***

 Everything looked to be the same as it was years ago. The courtyard was still well-maintained, and the winter garden crops were still in the same order. It seemed like nothing had changed in the time that (Y/n) was gone; she was the one who had changed.

For a few minutes, she stayed rooted to the spot— just surveying the area and taking every detail she could to her memory; because she knew that it was the last time that she was going to see them. Even if the last memory she was going to have of that place was of it being bathed in moonlight, then she would take it.

“State your name and business,” A chilling voice from behind (Y/n) hissed out. And she, in turn, raised her hands up to the sides to show the person that she meant no harm. 

“I’m here to talk to (L/n) Daichi. The name’s-” She was about to utter her own last name, when she remembered that she was there to renounce that last name. So, she went with the next best thing: her future last name, “Rengoku (Y/n).”

The new name left a pleasant tingle on her lips, one which almost made her smile— had it not been for the fact that the tip of a knife was pressed against her back.

“Walk,” The man behind her instructed, and she followed suit— walking towards the main house that she knew like the back of her hand.

The lights were still on, which meant that everyone was still wide awake. It came as a surprise to the (h/c) haired woman, as she used to have a strict lights-out policy enforced upon her when she lived there. 

“Seiji-dono,” The stranger called out towards the closed front door. And not even a minute later, the exact male copy of (Y/n) came bounding out of the house in a yukata. It seemed that he was about to turn in for the night, as his hair was already in a top knot— which (Y/n) had taught him all those years ago. “Kneel, woman.” 

(Y/n) scoffed at that, before answering, “Why would I kneel to my own brother?” 

With that, she quickly whirled around and knocked the knife out of the man’s hands, as it had been getting annoying with the constant poking against her back.

“(Y/n)!?” Immediately, the aforementioned woman was tackled into a tight hug from the side. Seiji tried to gather her closer to him, as if to make up for all the lost years, but she merely smiled and patted his back softly.

She would never tell him, but she had missed him. “You’ve gotten taller, Seiji. How have you been?” 

“You’re asking me? I should be asking you that! I haven’t seen you in years!” At that point, tears were streaming down her twin’s cheeks, and it was made more evident by the thickness in his voice. “You just disappeared! You didn’t even say goodbye.”

“Well, I’m here to say goodbye. For good, this time.” The wistfulness in (Y/n)’s tone wasn’t lost on Seiji, who pulled away from her to look into her face. When he saw nothing but seriousness in those features that were identical to his, his expression fell as more tears rolled down his cheeks.

“Why?”

Slowly, a sad smile tugged at the corners of (Y/n)’s lips. She then moved to cup her brother’s face in her hands, and proceeded to wipe his tears away. “You’re still a crybaby, I see.”

“Why are you leaving again?” 

“Because I want to marry Kyōjurō. And I can’t do that if tou-san doesn’t give us his approval.”

“(Y/n)…” Seiji’s eyes widened, and his expression fell even more as he stared at his sister. He didn’t want to have been the one to break it to her, but it was necessary at that moment. “Otou-san passed away a year ago.”

Wide-eyed, (Y/n)’s hold on her brother fell until her arms were pressed awkwardly between their bodies. “W-what?” 

In response, the younger of the siblings relinquished his hold on his sister, before taking her suddenly-clammy hands in his own. Her hands were even chillier than the snow around them, yet he still pushed himself to tell her what she needed to know. “He suddenly got sick, and he tried to get you so that he could say goodbye, but you always seemed to elude whomever he sent to get you. 

“So he gave up on that idea,” Seiji continued, “But he did leave something for you.”

“What about okaa-san?” The words left the woman’s lips in a hushed whisper; as if she was afraid that voicing them out would ultimately give her the answer that she dreaded to hear. “She’s already asleep.” Seiji rubbed her hands to warm them up, before pulling her along with him. “Come in, it’s chilly out here. I’ll prepare some tea for you.”

(Y/n) was stuck in a numb state; she could do nothing but stare blankly down at the cup of tea in her hands, as her brother told her about all that had transpired while she was gone. 

Apparently, he had taken over their father’s job as a kannushi, and he and their younger siblings still tended to the place. A handful of aspiring kannushi were employed at the temple as well, and a few of them served as guards at night— especially since the demon attacks started.

And when he had slid over the pristine white envelope bearing their family’s crest, the tears that (Y/n) had felt bubbling up inside her started to prick the backs of her eyes. 

With unsteady hands, she picked up the weighty letter and opened it.

Once she unraveled the folded sheets of paper inside, the first page made the tears in her eyes slide down her cheeks.

Because that first sheet was an unfinished marriage registration form for her and Kyōjurō, which bore his seal of approval.

 ***

 The trip back to her home was slow, because she felt her guilt weighing her down— even though her father specifically told her in his letter to not feel guilty for the things she had done. 

She had read through the letter so much that she had already memorized it word for word: 

 My Dearest (Y/n),  

I hope this letter finds you well.

Seiji must have already told you what happened to me. You can call it anything you want, but I would like to consider it as karma.

I wasn’t the best father to all of you, and I deserve what I have been dealt. And you have every right to be wary of the men I send to take you back.  

But (Y/n), I merely wanted you back so I could apologize for all the wrong things I’ve done. You and your siblings are all special to me, but I never realized it up until it was too late. I was a horrible father, and I will own up to that fault eternally.  

Enclosed in this letter is a marriage registration form with my seal on it. That boy, with the flame-hued hair, came by three years ago to ask for your hand in marriage. Of course, being the close-minded man that I was, turned him away and told him never to return.

But he was back the next day, and the day after that.  

He was nothing more than a mere low-ranking Demon Slayer, so I thought he would not be able to protect you. But he proved me wrong by coming back as a Hashira. Yet I still said no. 

It wasn’t until a month later that I came to realize that he had finally proven himself worthy of you. And this is my way of admitting that I was wrong.

You are not to blame for any of this happening. I hope you will never regret the choices you have made up to this point. Some may say that you have sinned, but to do things that would make you happy, while not hurting anyone, is not a sin.  

I’m sorry, my darling daughter, for not being the father you deserved.  

With all my love,

(L/n) Daichi

  Her father’s words kept running through her mind, which pulled her even deeper into its tight clutches. Her feelings were so suffocating that they were physically weighing her down; making her movements reluctant and sluggish.

She almost wanted to sit by the side of the road to try to compose herself; but the thought of seeing Kyōjurō again and being in his arms motivated her to keep walking.

And when she did manage to arrive at her home, she almost cried at the sight of her lover standing by her front door, with that ever-present smile on his face.

Only, when Rengoku saw the state she was in, his smile immediately dropped, as he hurriedly gathered her in his arms. “What’s wrong, (Y/n)? Are you hurt?” 

It wasn’t like (Y/n) to lose her tight leash on her emotions but, at that moment, she couldn’t care less as she let that tight control slip. She wrapped her arms tightly around her lover’s torso, before burying her face in his chest. 

Kyōjurō didn’t know what to do. It was the first time that his lover had ever reacted that way, and he was at wit’s end trying to find out what was wrong with her. Instead of pressing her though, he wrapped his arms tighter around her shoulders, then nuzzled his cheek affectionately against the top of her head. 

Her tears and quiet sniffles were practically wrenching his heart open, but he knew that he had to let her cry everything out first; before he tried to understand what had her so sad. 

His usual enthusiasm and boisterous words of encouragement would have worked on any other person, but not with (Y/n). Despite her tough exterior, the Hashira understood just how delicate the love of his life really was. She didn’t require jovial reassurances, but a gentler approach. 

She required his silence and empathy, and he was more than happy to give it to her.

 ***

 “How are you feeling, my Sweet Flame?” Rengoku asked softly, as he set a cup of tea in (Y/n)’s hands. He leaned down to get a better look at her face, and frowned when he saw her puffy eyes, and red-tinged cheeks.

He wanted to make something heartier for her— like nabe— but he didn’t want to risk burning down her kitchen. The full extent of his cooking knowledge ended at tea; and that was only when he was lucky enough to not scorch the tea leaves.

(Y/n) eyed the tea in her hands, before taking a dainty sip and snapping her gaze up to her lover. Softly, in a raspy voice, she commented with the beginnings of a sad smile on her face, “This is horrible, Kyōjurō.”

The Hashira chuckled in turn, then moved to get more comfortable from his seat beside her. “I’m sorry, (Y/n). I’ll try to be better next time, okay?”

Gone was the loud, boisterous tone that Rengoku usually held. And in its place was an equally jovial, but quieter tone, that served to make (Y/n)’s heart race. It was a tone that was reserved only for her, which was pretty damn special in her book. 

“What had you so sad earlier?”

(Y/n) hesitated, before setting her tea cup down on the tatami mat and fishing out the folded letter from her right pocket. “It’s from my father.” 

Rengoku’s eyes widened at the letter she held out to him but, nonetheless, he accepted the wrinkled envelope and leafed through its contents. His heart raced inside his chest, yet his face was a mask of impassiveness as (L/n) Daichi’s words sank in. 

He remembered the strict man perfectly. Only an idiot would forget what such an imposing man looked like. He looked nothing like his daughter, except for those sharp eyes.

A chill ran down his spine at the memory of him practically begging for (Y/n)’s hand in marriage. The (L/n) patriarch had immediately shot his question down, and asked him the very words that urged him to become a Hashira sooner.

‘How would a low-ranking slayer like you be able to protect my daughter? Simply having a blade is not enough; you need the skill to prove it. Come back when you’re actually worthy of her.’  

He wasn’t a bad man for wanting to marry his daughter off to someone who was more capable of taking care of her; he was just a father who wanted the best for his daughter.

Rengoku understood that now; and it seemed that (Y/n) did as well.

With a simultaneously heavier and lighter heart, the Hashira folded the letter and stowed it back into its envelope. When he looked up at his lover, it was to see that she had more tears in the corners of her eyes.

And when one of them escaped and rolled down her left cheek, he reached out and wiped it away with his thumb. “Don’t worry, (Y/n). I’ll take care of you.”

“You’ve been doing that for years.”

Rengoku chuckled. “I’ll take better care of you, then.”

At that, a small smile tugged up at the corners of (Y/n)’s lips, which made the Flame Hashira’s heart practically blaze with fire. Even with her tears, she was still the most beautiful person in his world. “I’ll be in your care… goshujin-sama.”

“G-goshujin-sama?” Kyōjurō’s tone rose up in incredulity, which (Y/n) couldn’t help but grin at. “You’ll marry me!?”

1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5

[bookburnt]

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I use full-sized text in my rp posts, and occasionally single-small text for OOC purposes.  Smaller text is difficult for me to visually process, and there’s only so much that I can zoom in on my tumblr dash before it all goes to hell.  If you personally use smaller text, that’s fine, but I may make it larger when I reply to it.  This is a matter of accessibility.

I do not consider fcs or icons to be obligatory. As of the time of my most recent edit to these rules (april 19, 2020), I do not even have an official faceclaim for Gerry.  If you prefer to use icons in your writing, that is fine, but I will not be doing the same.

The Mun:

You can call me Swid.  I’m white, over 21 years old, go by they/them/theirs pronouns, and am in a committed monogamous relationship.

Thank you for reading!

[comicteaparty]

April 18th-April 24th, 2020 Creator Babble Archive

The archive for the Creator Babble  chat that occurred from April 18th, 2020 to April 24th, 2020.  The chat focused on the following question:

What are your personal rules of thumb for determining whether a certain page needs a maturity or trigger warning?

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

i have no rule of thumb and i'm really curious to read what other people think about this

Deo101 [Millennium]

I usually ask people if they think it needs one, and I only ask if it is significantly different than what I've been doing.

Cronaj (Whispers of the Past)

I guess it depends on the subject and the severity. There are the basic ones, like rape, excessive gore, suicide, graphic sex, common phobias, etc. Things that can very easily trigger a large group of people or are generally not allowed in PG-13 movies. But there are other times I don't know if putting a warning or labeling it as mature is necessary. For example, profanity, suggestive material, violence (that doesn't involve gore), and again typically things that can make it into a PG-13 movie. Once it starts to be graphic enough to move into the realm of rated R, that's when you should start putting warnings. My problem with warnings as a creator is that the warnings can kind of spoil the contents of the chapter, so I try not to use them unless what happens in the comic could potentially harm a large number of people by not warning them.

RebelVampire

As a reader I do want to chime in say I agree with that last part. Whenever I see warnings, they are very spoilery so there's no surprise when I get to the warning part of the chapter/episode/page. I expected it so it loses some of its emotional value for me. Or, on the flipside, is so minor it shouldn't have had a warning that its ultimately underwhelming and disappointing.

Cronaj (Whispers of the Past)

Yeah, that's exactly why I'm wary about it

I am very sparing with my warnings, because I don't want the readers to lose any of that emotional impact.

carcarchu

my target audience for my webcomic is middle schoolers so the content i produce is never something i feel i need to put trigger warnings for. personally i think you don't really need to tag things unless the content is significantly different from what is expected from the comic. like if it starts out a lighthearted romp and then suddenly there's beserk levels of violence that probably ought to have some warning

Eilidh (Lady Changeling)

I would probably put a CW for blood, gore etc. Of any level just to be safe. Different people have different sensitivities, and as a sex-averse ace I know I often would like CW on sexual/sex-adjacent content that others might not think was enough to need one so. I just err on the side of caution

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

I specifically never put warnings in anything I write. If something I write deeply upsets someone or makes them extremely uncomfortable, that's a good thing. It means I've done my job in expressing and conveying the emotional context I set out to accomplish in most circumstances.

My background is poetry and I've only ever read a single book that had any warnings attached, and that was at the beginning of the book, not for each poem. Even then, it was from an author who was particularly, er, well a bit off their rocker.

Like, if you open a collection of poetry and you're surprised to see heavy topics covered...that's your own fault at that point.

If I had opened one of my favourite collections, The Flame by Leonard Cohen, and saw content warnings, I would have probably said in my head "Why the fuck is this here?" and "Well, no shit that's in here, this is Leonard Cohen."(edited)

My job is to convey and express regardless of what the reader might think. It's never my job to guide or warn them, it's my job to present to them.

Fiction, outside of that catered to younger audiences, tends to contain a lot of stuff that can be deeply uncomfortable to the reader (yes, even comedy). I've read stuff that's really gotten to me emotionally, and that's OK, that's a good thing, the author presented what they intended to (G-d knows they did). If you don't want that, then really, you just have to be cognizant of the fiction you're reading and remember that stories about life often have all aspects of life in them.

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

I have read things (though mostly non-fiction) that have made me want to cry or so sick that I felt the need to vomit. The author didn't warn me of that. They presented what they had without pretext nor excuse. They did their job. Those are very much extremes, but the point is that I consensually opened those texts knowing that might happen. I mean, it's not hard to look at the subject matter or what the reviews say and think "Hm, OK, this book isn't all sugar and roses". Frankly, though, I just feel that the content warnings and all tarnish the authenticity of a text that stands on its own.

Sorry for the rambling, but admittedly, I do include a content warning for that in my username!

chalcara [Nyx+Nyssa]

I don‘t do content warnings, but I try to make sure to be upfront about the type of story people can expect.

Seen the results of someone springing a graphic, surprise character-gets-raped-to-death into until then fluffy childfriendly story for „trolololOLOL, I made you have a FEEL, I am an ARTISTE.“

It‘s disrespectful to the reader at best, after all they need to be able to make an informed decision if they opt in or not.

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

Alright, that's plain bad writing, but dramatic tone shifts can and are used effectively.

Joichi [Hybrid Dolls]

I thought about content warning because I have seen comics that was upsetting to me and readers, and there was no trigger warning. Just a side note in the first chapter that the author explain that 'their characters' weren't a representation of every trans experience. But still had backlash for it. So some content warning when it comes to sensitive stuff like trauma, gender disphoria should be stated somewhere? I wasn't Trans but effected, I assume it was worse for trans readers seeing uncomfortable scenes that remind them of bad experiences.(edited)

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

When I was younger, I used to be into a lot of animated stuff, and there was this one anime (don't judge, I was like fourteen) called Steins;Gate that, for the first half, is relatively comedic and lighthearted, before a very dramatic tone-shift in one episode where most of the main cast die on-screen and it becomes a conspiracy/time-travel thriller. It was actually very, very good, and it's an incredibly popular show because of it.

chalcara [Nyx+Nyssa]

Yeah. I think this is what content warnings are coming from: trying to enable the reader to make an informed decision of they wanna opt in to a story or not. It‘s a matter of consent.

They‘re not perfect, but better than nothing.

Eilidh (Lady Changeling)

I agree with @chalcara [Nyx+Nyssa] here on the point that it's about being able to knowingly consent to a potentially unpleasant experience

Deo101 [Millennium]

Honestly I'd rather have a small spoiler at the end of the page before Something happens than potentially hurt someone

Again, only if it's really tonally dissonant

Eilidh (Lady Changeling)

There's plenty of things I don't mind if I'm aware of it beforehand so I can make sure I'm in a good headspace, but the same things could totally put me off a story/creator and give me issues for months if I wasn't expecting them

Source: personal experience

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

Webcomics are probably very different, but I'd find it would put me off a lot in poetry (and it's also something you don't see in it; it's just not a part of the industry culture). But people having negative emotions from reading is very commonplace and par for the course.(edited)

Joichi [Hybrid Dolls]

But I also feel that content warning do give away bit of spoiler. I was taught the good way to protray an incoming dark topic is to give hints along the chapters, rather than 'spring it out of the blue'. I haven't written anything super dark/angst before though. It's uncomfortable for me and I haven't cross that threshold of feeling yet(edited)

Eilidh (Lady Changeling)

Personally I feel like if your story or scene or whatever relies so heavily on the shock of specific content that it would be ruined by the "spoiler" potential of a content warning, it's bad writing

Deo101 [Millennium]

I feel like stories in general are not ruined by spoilers, though some people don't like them. But if we're in a scene and we're gonna see someone get cut in half and you say "hey this battle has extreme violence" that's hardly a spoiler

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

Not always. Shock, if it's not in bad taste, can be used as a device to help set the emotional context for the rest of the passage. It's bad writing to use it bombastically and haphazardly, but in light touches, like a ghost pepper, it can help. On its own, though, yeah it's usually bad writing.

Deo101 [Millennium]

Since comics are visual there is more need for this kind of a thing because it can be more intense for readers

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

Ah, yeah, that's true. My field doesn't have visuals.

I can imagine it may be different in that case.

Deo101 [Millennium]

Also, think like. Movies also have this, that's what the rating system is

A movie rated r for extreme violence isn't a spoiler

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

Especially if it has Tom Cruise in it.

RebelVampire

Yes but imagine if the movie paused right before the worst parts to say "Hey this is gonna be a mature scene"

chalcara [Nyx+Nyssa]

Age ratings ARE content warnings.

Deo101 [Millennium]

Tv shows do it at the beginning of an episode

And, with comics you have natural pauses

Putting a small banner at the bottom of an update doesn't interrupt the flow the same way putting it at the top of one would, and it can prep people to know not to even open the next update kind of thing

I haven't done content warnings my content is only pg13 but I've thought a lot about it for future, more intense ideas

chalcara [Nyx+Nyssa]

In Germany‘s there are no tv show content warnings, but certain stuff can only be aired after 20:30 or on dedicated channels.

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

I agree with @RebelVampire . In my favourite movie of all time by far which you 100% have to watch (IT'S REALLY GOOD!!!) On the Waterfront, there's one scene which really gut-punched me when I first watched it because it's, well, fairly disturbing, but if the movie stopped before it and some dude came up and said "B'ys, cover your children's eyes", that'd be ridiculous. Age warnings pre-screening are fine because it's an audiovisual form, but considering that text doesn't have that visual or audio component, I just don't see the need. I can understand why you would do it as a comic artist, though.

Deo101 [Millennium]

There are also, for movies and TV, sites like "does the dog die?" Which provide this kind of information for people with triggers. Comics don't have this kind of a site though so it's on the creator

chalcara [Nyx+Nyssa]

That reminds me, I need to put Nyx+Nyssa‘s age rating note up. g

Eilidh (Lady Changeling)

People with triggers are the sticking point for me. Even if most people would be okay, there's people who won't be and I don't want to act like they don't matter when I'm putting warnings on my content. I feel like it's my responsibility if I'm making that content.

chalcara [Nyx+Nyssa]

Yup. I know someone with cPTSD who cannot engage with media without content warnings; because disassociation is NOT fun and dangerous. „Does the dog die“ and similiar things mean she can engage with media without having to rope in others as betas.

Deo101 [Millennium]

Yes, same here. Obviously you can't warn for everything, many people have obscure and specific triggers, but there are common ones that are generally sensitive subjects that I don't think it's bad to warn a bit about

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

I don't think it is your responsibility, but rather those with triggers to be careful. I'm a trauma victim and I do have triggers, but you know, I can't expect everyone to know that (especially with how hilariously specific they are). If you're worried, do your research

chalcara [Nyx+Nyssa]

There‘s a huge difference between being responsible of for someone and being mindful for someone.

Eilidh (Lady Changeling)

As someone who has triggers as well - I'd prefer to be able to see at a glance. It's awful having to be on guard constantly and worried about what if you didn't do your research quite well enough

Deo101 [Millennium]

I personally only read comics on reccomendation because of mine

They're not common ones but I've never been annoyed by trigger warnings that aren't for me

It usually looks much different from the comic so you can just quick look and scroll past

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

I really understand that and I can understand it in the context of your industry because it has that visual component, but in the context of mine it's not done because content warnings wouldn't really make much sense for my industry. What will annoy me is when trigger warnings are uploaded for every part of the webcomic. Like, that's a little extreme.

Eilidh (Lady Changeling)

I understand it's very different context for poetry - but I'm talking about comics

Deo101 [Millennium]

I would agree that uploading for every page would be extreme, but I would think I'm that case it would be at the start of the comic or in the description

chalcara [Nyx+Nyssa]

About pages! They exist for a reason.

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

At the beginning of the entire comic, if you want to, that's fine. I think it does change the mindset of the reader and can be detrimental to the story in some cases, but if you know it's not, then that's fine! Of course, that problem can be solved just like @chalcara [Nyx+Nyssa] just suggested: put it on the About page.

Yeah, no, I could get behind that.

For webcomics, I think that would be a good solution.

Deo101 [Millennium]

Some sites don't offer about pages, though, and if it's not a major theme and only in a small part it's nice to put it in the comic itself too

Like my comic is generally very light-hearted but coming up I do have a scene that's significantly more violent than the rest of the comic has been, and I debated whether or not to warn my readers about it

I don't want to put a violence warning in my description though because it would draw the wrong audience

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

I mean, it really depends. If it's suddenly looks like the notes of a medical student, then put a warning, but some light violence is probably fine.

Others could probably give a better opinion on that though.

chalcara [Nyx+Nyssa]

Yup. I liked how dumbing of age handled it‘s suicide warning - it was specific to that particular page because it dealt with specific details as opposed the more general discussion. So that page got a small note on top. Didn‘t remove the emotional impact, but allowed people to brace themselves or opt out.

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

Page the Poet refuses content warnings and enjoys their readers' suffering (/s).

All jokes aside, what do you mean about some sites not offering About pages? I'm not well-versed on hosting web-comics.

Deo101 [Millennium]

Well, for instance with webtoons you have a 500 (?) Character description, and that's it

Maybe it's 1500 or something idk it's been a while since I wrote mine. But it's not a seperate page like how I would have on my own site

On your own site it's awesome cause people can just, if they have triggers they can go there to see jf they're fine to read

But with webtoons, tapas, and other hosts you get one page and it's just your comic and description

So putting "violence warning" there is much different than on a seperate page

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

I thought most web-comics had their own site?

Deo101 [Millennium]

I mean I do, but many don't

And most readers these days are on hosts I think

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

Oh. Yeah, alright, I see the issue.

Deo101 [Millennium]

My description says pg13, LGBT, and slowburn and that's all it gets from me. I would be more descriptive in my about page which I do still need to code

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

I'm curious, why specify the LGBT part?

Deo101 [Millennium]

But yeah so it's a very case by case basis depending on where you are and all that

Oh because I want lgbt people to know my comic has an LGBT cast and is catered to them

It's so my comic more likely finds my target audience

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

OH.

carcarchu

i think about stuff like school live and bokurano and consider that i'd be really upset if the sudden dramatic shift in tone was overtly warned beforehand because the shock factor was so important for those series in particular so i don't know how to handle warnings for stuff like that

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

That makes sense.

Please excuse my idiocy haha.

Deo101 [Millennium]

Not idiocy, it's a lot of potential to learn ;)

Carcarchu, it's really a personal choice of the author and what they want. If you don't wanna do it cause you think your story would suffer, that's totally fine. But personally and a lot of other creators agree, id rather potentially risk a slight decrease of my impact to protect some people.

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

You see, in poetry, it works like this: you find a journal that suits your poetry, you submit it, you don't get published, and you cry yourself to sleep. Repeat twenty odd times until you get accepted somewhere. Then, you get published there and you tend not to worry about target audiences and stuff yourself. 'Tis a foreign world to me!

RebelVampire

Yeah I agree that I think at the end its a personal choice cause you'll never please everyone whether you do or don't use warnings

carcarchu

i'm thinking about my experience reading those two series and being blown away by the sudden tone shift and really liking one of those series because of it. but then i think about my experience with madoka where i actually started watching it BECAUSE i saw a spoiler about the twist and it piqued my interest. i still enjoyed madoka but i wonder how my experience with it would have been different if i went in blind

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

@carcarchu , I'm with you. It really depends on what you can do, I think. If it's available to those who need it without expressly being there for those who don't want spoilers (An optional CW of sorts), that could work.

carcarchu

i like the idea of optional cw

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

I don't know if it's an idea that could work, though, as I'm not experienced with web-comics. @Deo101 [Millennium] , your thoughts?

Deo101 [Millennium]

On a personally coded site you could probably with a lot of effort make something like that work, but that's not really so much an option on hosts

Tapas has a mature toggle where that specific page says "this contains mature content" or something, but everyone sees it

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

If it's personally coded, it should be fairly easy with a small bit of javascript, right?

Deo101 [Millennium]

And for other sites it's not an option at all other than for the entire series as a before you enter sort of deal

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

I personally would put warnings Because some chapters deal with traumatic subject matter and I’ve had friends see them and warn me about those However I wouldn’t just do content warnings for something like swearing

Deo101 [Millennium]

I don't think you could code it easily, at least not with the systems I'm using.

Again the best solution I've come up with is at the end of the previous update, so people can skip over it easier and it doesn't interrupt flow the same way

carcarchu

the easiest way to do it on smth like webtoons would just to put some text on ur page that says something like "optional content warning for the next page in description, read at your own risk" but again that would spoil a potential twist

Deo101 [Millennium]

Honestly like Doesn't the twist just happen at the warning then instead of at the panel

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

I think the real solution is to just not write anything.

Deo101 [Millennium]

Like it's not spoiling it it's just moving it a few lines up

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

Don't even write the webcomic. Best solution.

Deo101 [Millennium]

And content warnings don't say who or how

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

Perfection.

carcarchu

i might be miffed if i read TWIST INCOMING and then had to wait a week to actually see it

Deo101 [Millennium]

Just a general, vague, "what"

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

Say there's triggering content, but don't say where or what. Put it on the last page too.

carcarchu

but it could potentially drum up interest like WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN NEXT WEEK

Deo101 [Millennium]

Yeah that's what I mean

carcarchu

idk could go either way

Deo101 [Millennium]

Not like there's a twist!

Just hey things get intense

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

I don't know, it could still be triggering. I think we should just write no webcomic at all.

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

Hmmmmm I never thought of that

But what if people forget about the trigger and just jump right in

carcarchu

if they forget the trigger isn't that their fault and not the creator?

Deo101 [Millennium]

People who have the trigger will remember

carcarchu

they were given ample warning

Deo101 [Millennium]

And if they do not then I did what I could

Sorry but I have a specific trigger of people watching someone sleep, I've had two people warn me their comics include it, and I remember. And that was like a year ago

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

My stupid sense of humour aside, I do agree with Deo and Carcarchu. If you forget the trigger, that's your own fault. The author making that information available is one thing, but they aren't there to hold your hand.

carcarchu

oh man that's a super common trope deo that must be rough

Deo101 [Millennium]

Yeah but it's cool

Like I know it's a common trope and it's not really one you can see coming or anything :/ so it's cool

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

I think warnings are helpful tho if u be general like it contains a thing but u dont kno what it is till u read it

Like doe me it was doki doki lit club i didn't took seriously till it hit me and im like O

carcarchu

with dokidoki i knew about there WAS a twist but i didn't know exactly what it is so i was still shocked by it when it happened

Deo101 [Millennium]

Yeah like "Graphic violence" isn't a spoiler especially if you're already like 3 pages into a fight scene

carcarchu

but again they warned about it pretty vigilantly in the beginning before u play dokidoki? i'm not really sure how you could miss it?

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

Yeah.

In all seriousness, I like the About page option / optional CW, but I realize that might be impossible in a lot of scenarios.

Maybe put in the description of the first page "OPTIONAL CW BELOW" for example for those who want it?

Deo101 [Millennium]

Yeah, or the page before. Only concern is people not reading it, but then again that kind of falls under the "their responsibility" section

kayotics

I’ve put one warning in before, but I kept it to promo images (so like social media update images) and in the comic description a few pages before. My reasoning was: it was tonally different & darker from the rest of the comic, but I didn’t put the warning in the pages because of the reader is paying attention, the fact that its coming is pretty obvious. Who knows if I did the right thing it handled it correctly, but I really struggled with figuring out what to do

Deo101 [Millennium]

Another concern is that some comics will run for years, decades even, and so its sometimes impossible to know at the beginning what might need to be warned for.

I think that's good Kay.

It's unobtrusive and gives the people who need it what they need

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

Optional warning on the page before, then?

Deo101 [Millennium]

Yeah that's what I said earlier I was kinda planning on doing if it ever became necessary

kayotics

That’s essentially what it was. I think I wrote a caveat that the warning was a spoiler

Deo101 [Millennium]

That makes sense

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

Hmmm if you’re doing it on the page before How specific should the warning be

kayotics

I know a lot of people don’t read page descriptions, especially when binging, so I’m banking on the context of the chapter being the biggest warning

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

Like do you just say optional warning?

kayotics

What I did is I said something about the the content of the next page without getting into too much detail

Deo101 [Millennium]

I see things like "warning: graphic violence, sexual content, substance abuse," etc. Stuff like that

kayotics

Yeah. Mine was graphic violence or gore or something

Deo101 [Millennium]

Where it doesn't say who or how or anything, just a vague what

Which usually, the context of the scene is around that kind of a theme anyways where we can tell it's coming

So a content warning is more like "this does get turned up to an 8 here"

Though it can be a surprise where Something like what Kay did is really good

Like okay so spoilers but be warned

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

B'y, turn it up to at least eleven. Go big or go home.

Deo101 [Millennium]

I'm on a 1-8 scale

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

But what about the saying? Heresy!

kayotics

I think in the context of my comic it felt like, to me, that I was turning it up to 8 from a 1 or 2. It’s not the MOST GRAPHIC thing I’ve ever seen, but with the entirety of the rest of the work it’s tonally different, which is why I needed the warning

My comic, at its worst, usually just sees some curses and cartoon violence.

This was, like, full on blood and gore

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

I jumped straight into 12 at one point for mine whoops

kayotics

So I think context of the work is important with a warning as well

Deo101 [Millennium]

Yeah, I'm usually around a 1-2 too. I've got pg-13 in my description and if I'm ever toeing the edge of it, I'm gonna warn about it

kayotics

If you have a violent or heavy comic already, warnings for each page is ridiculous. It’s when you turn it up that you should mention something

Deo101 [Millennium]

Yeah exactly

DanitheCarutor

Aaah you know, I don't put warnings on my pages, because practically half the comic would have CWs due to the focus on upsetting themes. There was one instance where I did put one up for a page containing a lot of queerphobic language presented in a way that was jarring, and potentially triggering for people who've experienced something like that. Although I've somewhat regretted singling out that one page since the comic from that point only gets worse, in hindsight that one instance isn't bad enough to warrant a warning. I'll probably take it down once I stop being lazy. In general I feel a page-by-page warning is best for comics that don't normally have heavy stuff, it makes sense to warning for violence if that's not a normal thing in your comic, it might shock readers too much otherwise. As far as content, everyone has different sensitivity levels (someone put a CW up once for a character being yelled at by his dad), personally I would only use CWs for excessive violence/abuse, blood, mental illness, suicide, rape, gore, slurs and/or substance abuse. I've gotten a lot of mixed reception on warnings, there are people who want them up, in detail, on every page with potentially upsetting content. People who want them chapter by chapter, some like detail, some want a general warning. Then there are people who don't want any warnings either due to them being too spoilery, or they feel it ruins the immersion. I went for a warning in a pop-up on my main site and leaving a list in my description on other sites, mostly for the non-spoiler crowd and because of what I said before about practically half my comic being potentially triggering.

There are two chapters coming up where I'll be putting up a general warning banner at the start of the chapter, with a hidden list of triggers in the author's notes and an option to read a safer summarized version at the end of each chapter, rather than forcing everyone to read the whole thing. Just because the content will be really difficult for some in presentation and/or subject matter, and I don't want to outright distress anyone... at least without them understanding what they're getting into.

Like, even compared to how my comic already is the next chapters will be really upsetting... for some people.

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

It's not bad if people are upset or distressed. Like, full on disassociation from PTSD, obviously not, but I think these CWs are for them, not Alice Smith the average woman. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

So, I feel like, because of that, the general approach is best. Adding a CW for someone getting yelled at by their father is too spoiler-y/specific in my mind.

carcarchu

i really like dani's approach with the summary at the end for people who want to know what happened but can't stomach actually seeing the nitty gritty

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

Here’s the problem tho...my series literally deals with trauma healing

So there’s going to be mentions of...going to therapy, friends talking about it

Not the actual trauma itself

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

Yeah, I wouldn't bother with CWs there.

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

But I’m really worried that if I have to put up trigger warnings every time...a lot of pages will have that warning

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

People know what they're getting in for.

If you're going to read a comic about healing from trauma...don't be surprised at content that's not very fun.(edited)

DanitheCarutor

Yeah, my warnings are specifically for the mentally ill, people who've been in abusive situations and such. I don't want to end up bring back certain experiences, at least without them knowing what they're getting into.

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

Hmmm in that case I might have to put it in the summary itself then

That there’s trauma healing Of course it’s also about humor and slice of life, but I’ll add it in just in case

Would it help to get sensitivity readers to take a gander look?

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

I mean, in my mind, a general synopsis of the basic plot is a good idea for a lot of stories so long as you aren't spoiling anything.

DanitheCarutor

Me? Nah, I mean, I should but it wouldn't change my decisions since my story is really tight and changing stuff would end up changing everything.

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

In this case, trauma-healing seems to be a part of that plot.

So, you know, if it's mentioned, I think that's blaringly obvious at that point to people that "B'ys, there may be some triggering shit here", y' know?

DanitheCarutor

Oh, I totally misread the convo. Lol I mean, you could get a sensitivity reader if you want to be on the safe side, but if you're writing from experience and you've done research I don't see a problem with not having one.

carcarchu

having read the first few chapters of shadow's comic trauma healing was not an aspect that i picked up from it(edited)

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

Sensitivity reader?

Joichi [Hybrid Dolls]

I agree, I get more light heart tone with Shadow's story, but I know stuff ahead of time(edited)

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

Oh nooo

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

maybe the aspects will come up as the comic progresses shadow

:0

DanitheCarutor

My comic is also about trauma and healing, and while I haven't experienced all the things my characters have, I did do a ton of research and talked to people. Although my comic is a vent comic so most of it is based off my experiences.

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

I've just put general content warnings in the about page and appropriately rated my comic for its content. There will be things that are written thar i have no idea that could be triggering to people that exsist in a lot of media, it almost becomes impossible to sort through. And with the amount of content to sift through that would/wouldn't be sensitive to certain topics or just generally unaware, its tricky. If there is a reader with a potentially sensitive trigger, i would hope they could get a friend to do a read through if possible, but rarely have i seen comics go right into topics that would need such a hand to do so. Stories have descriptions and ratings for that reason, you're not going to find insane violence in Pokemon type stories, so the author has that responsibility of rating it correctly is what im getting at

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

Sorry, what's a sensitivity reader?

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

A sensitivity reader is like, a beta reader who specifically checks whether your work is offensive/ insensitive (e.g. when you're wondering "is my portrayal of this ethnic group offensive/ignorant?")

carcarchu

i think a sensitivity reader is for when ur writing a story that includes a particular cultural or ethnic group that ur NOT part of and u want to avoid making your story culturally insensitive

Joichi [Hybrid Dolls]

Ooh Dani, is it Guide to Unhealthy Relationship? Your comic often stand out to me. I knew what I was getting into when I read it

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

I was a sensitvity reader for someone who was writing a viet american and keii pretty much sums it up

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

That's a thing? Who does that? Ethnic Studies professors?

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

And it's not just for ethnic groups

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

I gave suggestions to add and avoid if ya writing a character from a certain ethnic group or marginalized group

like LGBT+, persons with disabilities etc

carcarchu

ethnic groups is the first thing i thought of but yes

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

No, not ethnic studies professors.

Members of the marginalized group.

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

yep

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

So if you're writing a trans character, you probably want a sensitivity reader who is trans

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

yep!

carcarchu

example the mangaka of golden kamuy has an ainu consultant who is ainu but i'm not sure if having a consultant is quite the same thing?(edited)

DanitheCarutor

@Joichi [Hybrid Dolls] Yeah, it is. I'm glad you were able to know! I try to make it obvious since CWs are pretty much the main themes of my comic. xD

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

i think so

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

A consultant can apply to sensitivity readers, yes, but goes beyond that

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

like the mangaka saught to reprsent ainus too

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

I know an MMA comic with an MMA consultant, for example

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

But couldn't two members of that group, say, Jews, say completely different things? How can you guess the information to be reliable based on their simply being a part of that group? Surely, there are things people look for when hiring these people?

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

I have artist friends who are my sensitively reader and one friend who has had experience with abuse So they help me with what’s good and what’s not to write about

I have artist friends who are my sensitively reader and one friend who has had experience with abuse So they help me with what’s good and what’s not to write about

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

It's still gonna be WAY better than not getting any, Page.

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

I mean yeah but in that instance hearing from another perspective at least one person helps

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

At least you can be aware of possible....differences

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

And people who have experience as sensitivity readers know some common issues to look for, as well.

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

yeah

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

Or cross reference

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

yep

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

It could be worse if the information is unreliable. What sort of qualifications does one look for?

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

like for me, reping viet folks and telling that to those saught viet rep in their comics

I told them "don't you freaking dare add tropes about the vietnam war I'm gonna come over to your house"

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

Friend of mine was a trauma survivor that I witnessed first hand

I suppose that qualifies!

But I think it helps to ask around

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

This stems from writers writing what they think an experience/ person group is without doing research and just being ignorant and offensive and a call for ppl to do better

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

yeah like those stories should be left to the group experienced it instead

imo

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

TBH even when you do a ton of research on your own, a sensitivity reader can help you catch things that you never even thought of researching because you were unaware It Was A Thing

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

like I still read some stories then they throw like the nam joke

and i'm like "I'm droppin this"

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

Yea I don't get cis ppl writing about the trans experience. Its not ur story

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

agreed ya

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

Hmmm a lot of artists write from experience

Perhaps if you need a sensitivity reader for say...being bi for example

Maybe find an artist who themselves is bi(edited)

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

like don't write how they got there, but write the experience they gonna deal with in the comic

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

Because you get double: you get someone who’s bi and also someone who knows how to work the medium

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

like i doubt cis persons have the nuance for trans folk, same goes for non-poc thinking is okay to do weird nuance things with poc

like lmao idk that's a pet peeve of mine if someone is writing an asian character and really just

"yea he's asian, idk what nationality but its there."

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

Im not into someone who isn't a minority writing about a minority experience as a personal preference, but the sensitivity readers aren't exclusive to that. There was an example in story help in this server where someone asked about writing for a certain group of ppl and wanted feedback

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

I...remember that krispy

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

yeah

carcarchu

i get what you're saying Tuyetnhi but i don't want authors to NOT include any representation just because they're scared of doing it wrong

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

Several people warned him Including me

DanitheCarutor

A good example of sensitivity readers is Moana. The directors were old white guys, but they got Hawaiians to look over the script to make sure it wasn't disrespectful to the culture, or totally out of left field, since the tribe in the movie is based on Hawaiian tribes. Even though I didn't have sensitivity readers I still sought out people who experienced certain mental illnesses, medical professionals and mental health professionals willing the share their experiences and knowledge on the subjects I'm tackling before starting the comic.

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

ye and I get that, I mean like if they trying to do extreme nuance takes

leave that for folks who experienced that

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

Asscreed games used to do the same too

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

I ain't againist that kind of rep, but I have a paricular idea how to go about it that's all lol

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

Tho i don't know if they were successful

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

What's wrong with someone writing a character who is transgender if they're not transgender? There's a lot of good research done on transgender issues both medical and societal as well as a lot of written record. I also don't see the issue with writing an ethnic minority as a non-minority. "Far Beyond the Stars" was written by white men and it speaks about racial issues brilliantly. Consultants on the intricacies of culture, I 100% understand, though, for your narratives; that does make sense. Professors are hired by filmmakers and writers for just that IIRC.

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

Sensitivity readers would not be a thing if people were not allowed to write characters outside of their own identity. Nobody's advocating that

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

ya

carcarchu

white people can write on poc's issues fine. but i have a problem when they act like they know more than the people who have experienced it first-hand

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

Yep that's what I mean cara

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

As long as you’re respectful about it

And open to changing ideas

RebelVampire

Ok Im gonna step in here now and say we need to take a step back perhaps cause I feel this convo might be becoming too heated.

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

Heated?

I think you're misreading. I don't believe anybody here is heated over anything. I didn't know there was an argument, honestly. Is there? Am I losing my mind here?

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

Also these are instances that have been brought to light bc ppl want better rep from authours too. My last point on that!!

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

I don't think anyone's angry, but this is an extremely sensitive/ heavy topic so we're all treading carefully!

carcarchu

i'm with page i thought it was all very civil

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

Remarkably so, frankly.

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

agreed

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

Usually these things spawn a lot of arguments. It's refreshing to see people, well, not do that.

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

ye lol

RebelVampire

It is but this is the sort of topic where it can quickly hit the boiling point in a single message. And I've been seeing some warning signs in this convo. By all means if everyone can keep it civil, please continue. Consider this more a warning that right now, if you're getting angry, please step away from the convo cause I don't want to have to mute or ban anyway.

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

aight

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

Warning signs? I really am losing my mind.

DanitheCarutor

Let me know if I've said or will say something that might be insensitive. I try to be respectful, but I'm overly comfortable with uncomfortable topics and can be like a bull in a china shop sometimes.(edited)

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

Its just a sensitive topic, page

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

same with me, but i'm also speaking from experience as sensitivity reader too.

so yea lol

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

Oh yeah, on most servers, when this comes up, you have those who take the opportunity to say white people should die, then the ones who say the same about people of colour. It all devolves.

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

what the

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

Oh, b'ys, Discord is a wild place.

Joichi [Hybrid Dolls]

I agree with Keii, these are sensitive topics, I'm reading each one carefully without jumping into a fight

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

I mean yeah, I been on discord since 2015 lol

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

Gosh, I've been on it for years too! Seems so long ago I first came here!

Time flies, eh?

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

still like, I find it kinda ridiculous someone is willing to jump like that

but yeah er, the topic at hand lol

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

It doesn't need to go to that ridiculous extent to offend people, so I agree with Rebel on that we need to continue to be careful

Eilidh (Lady Changeling)

(going to step out now but good convo y'all)

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

Offer people a bit of the word "race" and soon it turns into Nuremberg.

Good talking to you, mate!

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

Goodnight Eilidh!

Also I’m actually new on discord

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

I think that its a good practice that writers today are more sensitive to the readers. Not in a hand holding way, but in a responsible way where their work is properly tagged and rated and the consistency of such content is a warning as well (like danis comic) It's important to want to improve the reading experience for many and keeping in mind that some topics need to be handled with some more care

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

ye agreed!

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

In my field, I think it's a contest on how much emotion you can get out in one breath with gleeful abandon to how the reader feels.

carcarchu

but a problem with that is sometimes it feels like writers are held up to impossibly high standards and that they can't have ANY inkling whatsoever of any content that might possibly be construed as "problematique" by the purity police. the degree to which some authors are scrutinized is unreasonable and i think it often stems from having to be seen as a "pure" representation of whatever it is they are representing

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

Sometimes it's not even that the standards are "too high"

DanitheCarutor

@FeatherNotes(Krispy) Lol if the word limit allows it, every self-promo of my comic is plastered with age and content warnings, dang it!

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

There will ALWAYS be those standards, they were always there. Ppl just didn't have that voice. I would not be worried about writing however, as i def see a problem with the purity thingie going around.

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

I think carcarchu is talking about something very specific, Feather?

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

there will be some rep be messy and rip that's part of being human and making mistakes

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

There was an article talking about the direction of art and the consumers of such that covered this topic about the purity thing that i wanna findd

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

like everyone can't be a saint

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

like when an ownvoices writer gets pitchforks and torches because their portrayal wasn't wholesome enough, and you are only allowed to write happy and wholesome stories about that group(edited)

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

like

keii omg

yeah i'll die in the torches that's ok

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

Wait what

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

Yeah it's a thing

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

Thats a thing

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

What...????

carcarchu

yes that's what i'm talking about keii

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

What

carcarchu

i also have a video about it

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

They're more upset at the story direction then

Not a purity thing

carcarchu

no it's a purity thing

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

I agree with Carcarchu on this one. I feel like some people would be up in arms if I wrote a story where a white guy is the protagonist and a black guy is the antagonist. Some people just see race.

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

I know several LGBTQ peeps who are afraid to post their dark LGBTQ fiction because it might draw the attention of "only wholesome content allowed!!!" people

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

WhgtttattTTT

nooo

DanitheCarutor

Oooh yeah, the puritans/sanitizers out there, they're a scary bunch. I've had a run in with a few people who've said my comic shouldn't be allowed to exist due to the content... and I've been called queerphobic... and that my comic is queerphobic torture porn... and other fun stuff. It happens.

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

WHHHHHHAAAAAAAT

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

You'd be surprised how common this is.

RebelVampire

Yeah I have to say I've seen it a lot too

carcarchu

where have u been krispy that you haven't seen this?

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

I have been in my silent cave apparently

I also haven't been in fandoms for years if that helps lol

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

You living like Patrick the Starfish?

DanitheCarutor

Yeah, we're kind of starting to get back into the olden days of demand for sanitizing art, people who work on darker content or horror get a lot of crap.

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

This is patrick

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

All kidding aside, TL;DR: shit's kind of fucked in some ways.

carcarchu

i've even had run-ins with such people irl... hasnt been the most pleasant. i was once friends (note once) who tried to convince me that i should turn my het romance story into a lesbian one? for no reason other than she preferred to read that kind of content?

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

Ohhbsee thats where im confused

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

Imagine if the sexuality were flipped. It would be outrageous.(edited)

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

rip I had a comment a year ago that the main love interest is "too gay to be straight"

and i'm like "excuse u?"

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

"Yeah, make it straight. I don't like gay stuff."

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

How is the relationship dynamic purity in that case?

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

That's not purity police talk anymore, I think

carcarchu

not purity in that specific example feather but it's the same kind of person

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

I’ve also had people come up to me and ask why I don’t write a more lighthearted story

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

It's... a different issue

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

OB

MY GOSHHH

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

Or “shadow, your shit is too dark why are you writing about this”

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

So ppl be telling u how to write ur chars now?

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

"Life can only be happy and stuff :(( art can literally only be happyyy"

carcarchu

yeah this same person was also PISSED that there was a gem in steven universe who was "black-coded" and portrayed as a villain even though there were black coded gems who were not portrayed as villains as well

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

Sorry Krispy Life be like that

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

Wthhhh

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

Black coded?....what series have they been watching carcarchu lol

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

ah dang

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

These ppl have 2 much time on their hands RIP They wanna rip apart media, go after something that deserves it (likethebig2incomicscough)

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

They’re gate keeping(edited)

DanitheCarutor

Ah not too long ago I stumbled across an artist who drew more problematic stuff as a way to cope with trauma, which I guess was something their therapist suggested. Their stuff is pretty messed up, but someone started one of those "call out" videos on them, leading to thousands of people flooding their work with some of the most awful comments along with people trying to shut down their Patreon and social media accounts.

carcarchu

i later found out this person was also a terf so i ended the friendship right there when i found out

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

Dani that’s...what the fuck

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

Oh nasty

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

searches up terf Oh...

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

I remember reading one person talking about how presenting "bad ideals" and whatnot in fiction had to be demonstrated to be bad ideals and not work and stuff and so on so forth.

carcarchu

i've seen that too dani

sadly more times than i can count

we all remember what happened to cucumber quest right?

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

It is terrible out there

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

What’s cucumber quest

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

What is cucumber

Quest oop

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

"What is cucumber?": An essay in being Socrates.

carcarchu

long story short cucumber quest was a children's webcomic that was pretty popular but the author got bullied off tumblr for being "problematic"

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

oh no

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

Tumblr has a lot of crazies.

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

I like her work

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

Oh noooooooooo

I still go on tumblr but I carefully choose my blogs

Because I don’t want this shit

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

(All this being said, I wanna reiterate that just because those terrible pitchforks and torches people exist, doesn't mean all "I find this offensive" voices are invalid. Some things could genuinely be improved!)

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

Also def wanna say that even tho there will be these wolves waiting to tear 'non perfect' media apart, please dont feel like u have to stop writing, ever. Dont be afraid bc of these stories, yall have good heads on ur shoulders and obvs want to share ur experiences and that is something ur allowed to do

carcarchu

fyi she didnt stop making her comic because of the bullying thing, it was a separate, unrelated issue much later(edited)

i hear you keii

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

I find it hilarious of the idea That there are people out there who tell someone not to write stuff like abuse even tho they’ve never experienced it

And the writers themselves have

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

Oh, you ain't seen nothin' yet.

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

There was someone who tried to boycott assassins creed 2 bc the main char reminder her of her ex bf

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

omfg

DanitheCarutor

It's really sad and a little terrifying if your work doesn't fit the sanitization standards... Sometimes I think of that "what if" chance just the right person finding my comic and launching a take down campaign on it. Which is why I'm totally fine with staying as a smalltime person in the shadows. Also people don't usually want to even read through my comic, so that's a plus.

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

why lmaoo

oh dang dani that's one fear

but i'm also like "I wonder how folks react to me dealing with that like I ignore them"

would that be a power move or I'd be burning harder?

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

Shit I never thought of a takedown campaign

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

It's a genuine fear for the creating community for sure, but ur voice is necessary. Ur story will resonate with ppl, and those who choose to use their time to tear it down obviously have nothing else better to do

DanitheCarutor

@keii’ii (Heart of Keol) Oh yeah, totally! People's feelings are super valid, and someone writing sensitive content should be open to listening to other people. I'm just talking about the extremists who think anything remotely uncomfortable shouldn't exist. Like, no.

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

Man, nowadays, people just throw shit and false accusations and all the rest at people because they don't like them and their stuff. They're truly pathetic.

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

I used to be so scared of a certain chapter in my comic bc its so violent at one point. It kept me up at night bc of these take down campaigns were a such a thing. But then i remember the content i enjoyed that inspired my own and im like Aint no one cancelling FMA for the niina part!

I mean unless its a topic that's super insensitive to a group or people/topic, which i know you're handling with sensitivity and grace, i wouldn't stop

carcarchu

this is a little bit sensitive so i'm going to put it in a spoiler there was another incident where an author received constant messages to kill themselves for writing gls when they did not at that time identify as a woman but then the author later did a whole comic about how how complicated her relationship with her own gender and sexuality was and that she de-transitioned and now once again considered herself to be both cis and lesbian and all those comments about her needing to kill herself for writing gl were so narrow-minded because you can never really know an author's situation if you aren't in their shoes

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

What's "gl"?

DanitheCarutor

Lol yeah, I do get worried a lot, especially about the upcoming chapters. Although that's not going to stop me from pushing forward, and telling the story how I want to tell it. If my online presence is murdered in the process, at least it will die for a good cause... at least good for me because I'll be venting everything out.

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

Whhhh!!! People just gettin into ppls business damn. That's horrible

carcarchu

girl's love

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

GIrl's love?

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

ye

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

I def see ur story as a personal one with healing and building that will resonate with others Dani. And i think that's very important

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

What's that?

carcarchu

stories about girls loving girls

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

it's a genre that focuses on romantic relationships between girls ye

carcarchu

i really got chills reading that author's comic about her identity especially having seen those comments numerous times on her other comics

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

There was a similar incident except it was with an artist by the name of Zamii for supposedly drawing Steven Universe characters too thin (Yes, she did attempt suicide in the end, though she didn't succeed in her attempt).

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

Is...is she okay now?

oh my god Page

I remembered that

The SU writers had to step in

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

oh rip sadly I remember that as well

carcarchu

i think she's doing ok! i'm not sure if that particular comic is still up but i can dm u it if u want shadow

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

Yep! Not just the writers, even an executive producer.

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

Yes please carcarchu

And I think Rebecca sugar stepped in too? Not sure about that

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

Hopefully this serves as a reminder for all of us to have each others backs in such situations wow

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

Another incident was in the Undertale fandom I think. One person gave a cookie to an artist at a convention they didn't like because of the ships they were doing. They author was suspicious, so, they cracked open the cookie. It was filled with needles.

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

WHHHHHHYYYYYYY

carcarchu

oh my god i remember that page, what a horror story

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

........what the FUCK

carcarchu

always be careful about accepting food from events like that

DanitheCarutor

Geez, the thing about the GL author is sad... yet not surprising, and it's sad that I'm not surprised. @FeatherNotes(Krispy) Thank you so much! I went into my comic expecting absolutely no one would like it, so if it resonates with even one person that would be the best surprise. TvT

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

yee haw I love solidarity

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

Yeah, never accept food/drinks from strangers, including "fans"

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

As someone who bakes and deals with food....that is horrifying

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

yeah rip that's horrifying

carcarchu

if it's packaged food like candy it should be safe, but still be careful if u have reason to be suspicious at all

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

Remember, if you're suspicious, make them eat it too >:)

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

omgllol

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

And lace it with cyanide.

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

Gosh authours need content warning from readers it seems yikes

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

Better safe than sorry.

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

Still not safe to have them eat it too lol

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

I mean, hey, better second degree murder than dead.

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

I can think of some.... ways around that

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

"I'm alergic to needles"

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

Give it to their friend

>:)

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

Give it to their spouse.

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

And if it’s poison they’ll go down knowing they did it

Make a marvel villain

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

They're called "Widower".

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

Page you and I have like minds

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

Indeed we do.

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

I'm not comfortable with that -- like, what if their friend or spouse is being abused by them and is seeking to get out of that relationship

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

...This conversation is freaking amazing And I’ve never done individual page warnings for my comic - never felt it necessary. Maybe someday someone will yell at me about it, but... meh. The comic never goes into the really deep dark potentially-controversial stuff. So maybe it won’t be an issue. Back to catching up on all of this, WOW.

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

oh god it would be a complicated meSS(edited)

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

Oh god okay NO DONT GIVE IT TO THEIR SPOUSE

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

It doesn't matter. They must die for our agenda.

Morality? Pft.

If they're dead, they're no longer in the relationship.

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

I mean @LadyLazuli (Phantomarine) your story is really riveting But I’m not sure if you need warnings? I mean your story deals with...death

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

You see? Widower solves everything.

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

@shadowhood (SunnyxRain) I’m not sure! Someone tagged it with ‘limb loss’ elsewhere, which is debatable, haha. It’s something I would almost want others to tag. Sometimes I can’t stretch my mind far enough to imagine a page needing a trigger warning.(edited)

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

Wow...the more you learn, huh.

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

Yes- those specific type tags are always going to be elusive to keep track of- ur general rating is just what ur story needs

Def wanna point out too that TV ratings and warnings are what i go by and the most helpful to me as a reader and creator. Also video game warnings too are good to look at if people ever need examples of how to rate comics!

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

Yep, ratings are all I need too. In my ‘about’ page I described my comic as “no darker than the darkest stuff in Harry Potter,” but I’m sure someone would still find something extremely dark in that, so... SHRUG

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

Does anyone know of any of the big name comics that put trigger warnings or whatnot in their work? I dont read marvel/dc/etc so ive never seen if they took to rating their comics with any type of warnings?

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

I do have kids reading so I want the parents to feel comfortable

DanitheCarutor

Is it weird that I rated my comic based on the level of nudity and lack of sex? Like, "Okay, these people are really naked but not in a sexy way, what is the rating for that?"

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

I'm thinking about snot girl rn and idk if their creators do that tbh other than marketed towards adults

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

I read a couple of more-intense things from Image Comics and I’ve never seen any trigger warnings there either

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

Hmmm I’m not sure I remember reading Hellboy and not seeing any trigger warnings

carcarchu

krispy, the only time i can recall it is when i read Bradherley's Coach and that was actually put there by the translation team and not the author himself but i will say that the warning was extremely warranted with that one because i consider myself pretty desensitized to traumatic content but even this one really got me with each chapter being traumatic in it's own unique way

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

Do they have ratings on the backs of the books like some manga?

Oh wow ty translation team

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

Probably! I’m not sure if DarkHorse comics does it but they do have things like nudity and...portrayals of graphic death

carcarchu

if u read it on a website there is some degree of tagging for the content but i don't think that alone could have accurately prepared someone for what the comic explored

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

I think its clear that by these examples we're all already doing better at being responsible for the content we share and produce.

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

I hope so I wonder if those big name comics received flak about not having trigger warnings

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

I wonder about that too tbh

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

Im sure to a degree? But no where near an indie creator would

Which is a whole other topic

carcarchu

i for one would love more tagging options for webcomics

makes it easier to find whatever niche content you're into!

genres alone just dont do it

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

That could work But there’s also a price to pay; less chance to get readers too

carcarchu

why is it less of a chance to get readers?

Nutty (Court of Roses)

I myself am looking at my Punisher comics, and there's no warnings anywhere, but i feel with an antihero like the Punisher, you go in expecting the gore and violence

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

Hmmmmm....I guess my fear is that it’s a double edged sword carcarchu On one hand you can attract the readers you want But on the other hand you can also...possibly drive away readers who are mildly curious Some people need time to get invested in a story

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

I guess some people will just avoid some tags no-questions-asked. Hopefully it’s the small minority that the trigger warning will actually help (in terms of anxiety) and not someone who’s writing off the trigger as problematic and will go on a tirade warning other readers about it. I know it goes both ways

carcarchu

oh i wasn't talking about trigger content tagging specifically

i was talking about stuff like being able to tag for example "witches" or "animals" or "music" whatever is a theme in your comic(edited)

guess it wasnt a logical throughline made sense in my head

eli [a winged tale]

I was looking for a universal way to show trigger warnings and came across this article. https://medium.com/@UntoNuggan/trigger-warnings-101-a-beginners-guide-e9fc90c6ba0a I guess for mine I’m thinking to add body horror and violence the more we go through the story... I do like the part about putting the informed consent power back to the reader’s hands

Nutty (Court of Roses)

I put both Fantasy Violence and Alcohol Use as general warnings for my comic. Alcohol is treated in a complex manner in CoR, both in a humorous light and as a way to cope, but I know there are a lot of folks that are triggered by the presence of alcohol.(edited)

Joichi [Hybrid Dolls]

I will be putting trigger warning in my comic but Ive wanted to write about mental health allegories for a long time as a personal self reflection.

I started to feel braver after seeing other creators boldly write about mental health topics in their comics.

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

Whispers the webcomic library is an excellent source and tool to find/avoid tags in comics

Luma does an excellent job with archiving the stories there and i hope yall have applied to have ur comics there too!

Joichi [Hybrid Dolls]

Yes I watch Webcomic library on Twitter, Luma does such a good job curating comics(edited)

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

Same! Highly recommended

carcarchu

i think i follow it on twitter but i don't keep up with it

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

They did these tags for my comic(edited)

carcarchu

maybe i should change that

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

Super dedicated and a very great resource for webcomics!!

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

I got these! I originally only put down 'limb loss - leg' but 'limb loss - arm' popped up too, and I'm like "You know... that's kinda true." It's a really good resource!

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

OOoh I should check it out

Webcomic library, right?

carcarchu

what's the difference between independent! and independent

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

...that's a good question and I don't know the answer, haha

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

“Eventual LGBTQ” yes

Nutty (Court of Roses)

I AGREE!! I'm on Webcomic Library too. Mine is tagged as Mobility Aids since Nocturne uses a cane to walk

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

hmmm how do you add your webcomic onto there?

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

I went thru the process like

you send an email to luma/webcomic libary with a submission form

and she'll add it for u with the tags that are relelated to your comic

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

Luma always puts up submission posts too Check out their tumblr/twitter!

DanitheCarutor

I can't imagine how much time it takes Luma to go through all those webcomics! These are the tags they put for mine:(edited)

They've kept it up pretty well in spite of it not being their cup of tea. The only thing I was ever iffy on was the 'sexual nudity' tag since I didn't intend for that but for the nudity to be uncomfortable/awkward, and I don't like the idea of people going into my comic for sexual arousal, but on well. To each their own, also it may be a presentation mistake on my part.

It's funny because I didn't think about one of my MCs being disabled until seeing this, I had to think for a moment before realizing "Oh yeah, I guess ocular albinism is considered a disability."

Kind of an embarrassing realization on my part.

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

ooo that's a lot of tags

this from my comic

DanitheCarutor

@shadowhood (SunnyxRain) Here is the submission template if you're interested. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1q48tZquhmNoGY_lcsE8FkByF614EISk_Pf3YoQKXYWA/edit?usp=sharing

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

probably not much is tagged since lmao it's 2 chapters in

DanitheCarutor

Haaaah yeah, my comic has a lot of... stuff. It'll probably get even bigger once the next two chapters are finished, if Luma is willing to go through them.

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

ahhh thank you Time to submit

honestly I don't think there'll be a lot for my webcomic, since I just started lol

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

All a good resource regardless! And a good place to find comics to read!

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

fair enough! Also...uhh....

what's nsfw text?

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

oh

snuffysam (Super Galaxy Knights)

like, not safe for work things being talked about in the text of the comic typically sex stuff i imagine

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

or swearing lmao

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

oh god

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

get ready for a rideeeee

snuffysam (Super Galaxy Knights)

since someone saying "violence and gore" in the text wouldn't really count as NSFW lol

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

on my sailor ship lolol

DanitheCarutor

Yeah, NSFW text is swearing, slurs, discussion of NSFW subjects, sexual language I'm guessing. In my case it's the former three, at least I assume as much.

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

..........ohhhh boy

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

mine is just my characters speaking without filter

lol

at least for the begining lolol

snuffysam (Super Galaxy Knights)

but yeah to me the limit for "what to warn people about" is generally dependent on the platform

those are my tags on archive binge

those are my tags on webcomic library (admittedly a bit out of date)

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

lord almighty(edited)

snuffysam (Super Galaxy Knights)

on comic fury the only tag I have is high violence (with no nudity, sexual content, or swearing)

on tapas it's a page-by-page thing so I basically add the tag whenever there's blood on-screen

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

Nsfw is not swearing like bitch, shit fuck Its more slurs i do believe

Also forgive me for swearing on main lol

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

lol

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

OH DANI SAID IT ALREADY

So yes, what dani said

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

Yeah I was wondering how deep into curse/slur territory it’d have to go

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

Gjs has swearing in it but its sailor mouth stuff, not slurs

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

I’ve got fantasy slurs and I drop those RARELY because they still make me feel weird, haha

Dunno if I could ever commit to IRL ones in anything I do

DanitheCarutor

Yeah, I imagine if swears did count it would be how they're used, like if they were said in a derogatory statement and/or bullying.

But yeah, slurs, definitely. Haaaah

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

I don't think I could ever write about racial slurs either. The only touchy topics I will ever write are those I have experienced. Never experienced true racism so if I wrote about it I would feel like I'm faking knowledge of a huge and personal issue for other people

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

Same. I leave that to people who can write about it better. Any discrimination I have in my stories is manufactured by the fantasy world and its own unique circumstances. I have some influence from real-world discrimination, but it's its own thing.

DanitheCarutor

Ah but slurs aren't just race, there are also slurs for gender and sexuality. (The -cough- 'T' and 'F' word.)

Joichi [Hybrid Dolls]

yeah... racial slurs make me uncomfortable, but depends with the fantasy slurs, that could be creative if it's done to show the social issues of that world?(edited)

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

I feel like even if you're only using fantasy slurs (speaking as someone whose comic has a use of a fantasy slur...), you need good understanding of what it's like to be on the receiving end of a slur IRL. This isn't to say "you need [this qualification] to be Allowed to use slurs in your fictional work!" but more like, how to make it resonate with the readers in the right ways, how to make it not gratuitous, etc.

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

ye

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

I'm still learning myself. Like, I do have some experience dealing with racism toward me, but 1) it's nothing compared to the truly horrific stuff out there, and 2) even on comparable "levels" my experience could be very, very different from someone else's. All we can do is keep trying, keep learning.

Keep listening.

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

I'd had a fair deal of racism and microagression being a native in the US for so long

Joichi [Hybrid Dolls]

exactly, like I experienced childhood racism about my cultural upbringing. But it's different for other people.(edited)

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

it's something that lmao won't go away but ye we have some different perspectives on how we can go about handling it

Joichi [Hybrid Dolls]

When I read a work or watch a film, I can tell if the creator has researched well, if it's racism similar to my experiences. It doesn't matter their background. But it'd be a nicer bonus if this came from a POC creator.(edited)

DanitheCarutor

Yeah, based on that I'm probably not the best person to have characters using slurs. While the slur present is gender based, I have a complicated relationship with... everything that isn't white/cis/het. I'm a mixed race (mom's side(very white passing): German Jewish, black Irish, Scottish, Native American. Dad's side: Native American, Spanish, Mexican.), my mom was raised in a church in a tiny town that was totally against non-white people and race mixing, according to her when I was born people would come to the hospital to gawk at me. I've never been called a slur maliciously, but casually and I never noticed it until I was older after everyone naturally stopped. Every experience and memory I have of slurs has been of the "yikes!", "Woah, you really said that." variety, so I kind of project that energy a little bit in my comic. But in the form of a very yikes casually transphobic character.

For clarity on the cis/het thing, my family was also extremely bigoted but would hide it under casual language, so it never sounded queerphobic until you process what they said.

Not related to me, but I understand needing to experience racism to write it, although I think it can still be accomplished well if the person is empathetic and does a ton of research. Kinda like anything else sensitive, you just need to be really educated on the subject.

Joichi [Hybrid Dolls]

I agree with you Dani. Sadly some creators just don't have that empathy and want to write a fantasy token character. I had awkward story conversations before on race. "what do you think about this ambiguous Asian character? I'm thinking of a Japanese name, sounds Asian enough?" I always cringe inside(edited)

Deo101 [Millennium]

I usually bring in other people to write about those things I haven't experienced. Friends, generous volunteers, etc.

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

I think it's 100% OK to write about things you haven't experienced. I don't think J.K. Rowling experienced being an adolescent male chosen one in a magical college, but she still wrote about it...and made a Hell of a lot of money.

DanitheCarutor

Lol that's why I added in doing research, which I think brainstorming with experienced people counts, you're still educating yourself. I agree with everyone on experience being preferred, although I am on the anti-censorship side with art and storytelling, no matter how cringe it is.

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

ofc i think it's okay, but I personally don't feel comfortable doing it

i even feel a little weird writing male characters

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

If we can only write ourselves and our experiences, we're plain not good writers.

That's my view on the matter.

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

Again, I don't think any of us is advocating Necessary Qualifications To Even Attempt. This is a much more nuanced topic

I've never been a tall beefy dude, but that's what my MC is.

Never been a parent, but I write parents.

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

Yeah, "make the effort to write this well" is very different from "don't write this"

And there's plenty of people criticizing JKR for how she handles specific topics...

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

yeeeeah....

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

Including me.

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

JKR is probably not a good example to bring up as a positive example for this topic, simply because of the issues that can REALLY distract from why she's being used as an example.

Joichi [Hybrid Dolls]

I like writing male character more often since I'm less stressed about writing the opposite gender, I know it's my comfort zone. I based some of the boys on my guy friends and have fun with the story. Though I'm making a difference by insisting on adding women more and pushing for strength and vulnerability.(edited)

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

J.K. turned out to be lacking a few brain-cells, but my point is that you can very easily write foreign experiences; every good writer does that all the time (as you all do yourselves!) and I think that extends to writing characters no matter the colour of their skin, sexuality, or gender identity.

DanitheCarutor

True, I haven't seen gatekeeping here, I'm just giving my thoughts on it. A while back on another server I read a conversation where some people were dissing the person who made Magical Boy on Tapas because they're not trans, even though they did a lot of research beforehand. I was kind of reflecting that, but I also empathize with people who feel uncomfortable with people who've never experienced a certain form of oppression writing about it.

Pff I've never been a janitor, but dang it! You can't stop me from having a janitor character!

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

Janitors are the coolest guys, I'm telling ye.

Most chill people in the land.

B'ys, they can get along with anyone, I swear.

DanitheCarutor

They're like real life superheroes.

Deo101 [Millennium]

We're not saying not to write other skin tones, gender, etc. Just to be sensitive about it and aware that you can't extrapolate someone else's life experiences from your own, you have to ask

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

there's a difference between writing a janitor and writing a touchy topic like racism. Anyways, even if I was writing a janitor I'd do a ton of research on the job

Deo101 [Millennium]

Sorry I use a cane and I can tell when people didn't ask someone who uses a cane what it's like. It goes the same for a lot of things

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

I'm not saying you are saying that! Simply addressing something I've encountered before.

I've used a cane before, though temporarily. It was...a pain in the ass, honestly.

Well, more like a pain in my leg. And my arm.

DanitheCarutor

@Eightfish (Puppeteer) Sorry, I was joking since Keii was talking about writing muscular guys and parents. It would be sad if I didn't know the difference between racism and an occupation. Lol

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

In any case, I don't think that writing somebody of an ethnic minority necessitates much on its own. Delving into racial issues, sure, yeah that requires a lot, but I wouldn't say that of writing the character itself.

I'd say the same of sexuality and gender identity if you're not delving into the respective issues thereof. If you know what you're doing, i don't think there's too much to it.

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

@Page, Rambler Extraordinaire! Yeah, I think that's what a lot of us are saying. There is a difference between writing a character who's [this identity] vs writing a story that's all about exploring that identity.

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

The latter requires a lot more research, agreed.

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

oh i know @DanitheCarutor , you write a lot of lgbt characters after all. just adding my thoughts, not diagreeing

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

"If you know what you're doing" is the tricky part though

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

Well, that's not that difficult in most cases. There is a sea of available literature.

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

There's.... the problem of marginalized folks pointing out concerns in a work, and non-marginalized people dismissing their concerns because they don't see the issue.

Deo101 [Millennium]

It's also really easy to ask a person for their real life experience

People are usually, in my experience, more than willing to take some time and answer a few questions.

DanitheCarutor

On the Magical Boy thing, like I said, it wasn't you all, it was people on a different server and I wanted to bring it up since it's related to the topic. To do a more serious comparison, I've never had psychosis or schizophrenia but I'm writing a character like that. I did a lot of research beforehand though, like, A LOT.

Deo101 [Millennium]

Like for disabilities it's very easily to find all kinds of Medical information, but almost no first hand experience is available. So what happens is people are very accurate medically, but then extrapolate what living like that is like and still end up with a disengenuous story

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

Surely, there's available literature on the subject? I'm sure that I could find some.

Deo101 [Millennium]

And Dani, same with me and schizophrenia. It's for a future comic, but I've been researching it and interviewing people for years now to be sure I get a story that would at the very least not hurt them

I mean I would think a better resource would be YouTubers with those things, actually.

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

For a lot of topics, it's easier to find a firsthand experiencer willing to talk to you than to find some existing literature on the exact thing you didn't know you needed

Deo101 [Millennium]

Yeah like My condition is very rare and the best you could find on it for firsthand experience is like. A forum that's super old and inactive

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

I still remember one review where the person said "I have a certain disability, and I'm sure this author doesn't have it -- but they know someone who does -- because they're describing the visible symptoms with uncanny accuracy, but are guessing all wrong about how it feels/how it affects your life in invisible ways."

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

That's a huge pitfall, I feel. There can be a big sensitive thing that you aren't even aware is a thing; therefore, you don't think to do any research on that facet.

Deo101 [Millennium]

It's really easy to make a post on social media like "hey can I interview people with ___ for a writing project?"

DanitheCarutor

Openness depends on the topic. It's really hard getting people's experiences with certain mental illnesses, also the small number of people suffering from it. I had a really hard time finding people willing to talk about certain things, especially professionals since they usually don't want to talk to you without paying money for it.

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

^ That's also a good point.

Deo101 [Millennium]

That's true

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

I think we're going back to the purity thing. You can't expect someone to truly represent the "invisible ways" it affects you very well considering they're...invisible.

Deo101 [Millennium]

You can ask

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

But I would definitely recommend trying to reach out to people with firsthand experience, and seeing if that's an option.

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

I've been able to shoot emails off to professors before for questions. They're usually happy to answer a question or two.

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

This is not at all like the purity thing IMO.

DanitheCarutor

A decent resource I found was a mental health forum, you have to get accepted to join, but it's basically everyone talking about their experiences with being mentally ill or being a volunteer for mental health care centers. Unfortunately there aren't any psychologists on the forum... Just nurses and caregivers on the non-ill side.

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

Again, there's a spectrum here...there's all kinds of possibilities between "how dare your extensive research have a single imperfection" and "wow, you didn't even try".

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

Yeah, and it's not even a single lane spectrum! It's very complex and multifaceted/multilayered

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

And we're talking about this for marginalized people, but it can apply to any group/culture/situation you're not part of -- just look at any story where a European writer has an American character drive across the US in a couple hours

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

Lmaoooo

chalcara [Nyx+Nyssa]

Or americans write Germans getting lost in their woods.

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

Alright, multilayered? How so? It's a spectrum from "B'y, you're writing about a black man in the 1700s being exalted in America" to "Why am I reading this ethnic studies textbook?"

chalcara [Nyx+Nyssa]

Naw mate, pick a direction and you‘ll find a street or at least marked trail in half an hour.

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

Okay, I can't answer that without draining my energy reserve for the next 20 weeks

DanitheCarutor

Lmao! As dumb as it sounds, something like that can also apply to animals. Like the thing Disney did with lemmings, and how Jaws portrayed sharks which caused this spike in shark hunting because everyone thought they were these monsters.

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

Would it be possible to summarize?

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

We've talked about a bunch of different aspects already -- like, how well did you research the medical symptoms vs. how well did you represent the day-to-day experience

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

No (at least for me), precisely because it's so complex and multilayered.

RebelVampire

This is a good convo and I am happy everyone has remained civil. That being said, I kind of feel it's gone a bit off-topic for an extended time regarding this week's question

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

it's hard to know what's worth a mature tag or not when even the websites themselves are vague. I started off with a character having the trait of cursing a lot, but then dropped that as i became paranoid of wts content guidelines

but i've gotten a decent audience since then and wts hasn't deleted my pages or anything so(edited)

i have no idea what the line is

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

Webtoons is extra mysterious

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

I host my own stuff, so I just put warnings up when a specific storyline is going to be more intense than the comic's average

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

because their comment system will auto censor words like "vague" (it becomes "***ue" or something like that) so you'd think they really don't want ANY cursing?

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

yes! that has happened to me

Deo101 [Millennium]

Su***ious

Is one I see a lot

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

someone commented "sperm" on my pages once so i know wt doesn't censor that at least

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

...is that why the kids these days are just saying "sus" now

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

******in's Creed

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

i don't understand what is the swear in suspicious?

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

lmao

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

It's a racial slur in some regions

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

ohhhh

i know what you mean

yeah rip

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

An auto-censor like that just makes a normal discussion forum seem 100x more scandalous/insulting than it actually is...

Deo101 [Millennium]

I got used to talking around then from mmo games ahahaha

Those chats that squelch you if you say one curse or something close to it by accident

But! On topic, I think asking whether something is too mature is a good idea, having a kind of beta audience or sensitivity reader kind of thing.

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

I think it's fine to make your own judgment calls as long as you're consistent, so readers know the same things will be reliably warned for

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

a beta reader wouldn't neccessarily know more about wt than me though

when it comes to blurry content guidelines that is

might help with mature or triggering content

because your tolerance might be different from other people's

Deo101 [Millennium]

Oh I mean like "hmmm I think this is a bit much. Do you think this is a bit much?"

And they go "na this seems like pg 13 to me." Or "hmmm I think it could probably freak someone out you might wanna lightly warn."

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

it's a blurry line because sometimes an arm getting ripped off stylishly is less triggering than a realistic depiction of like, a fingernail being ripped off

just gotta go by feeling, i suppose

Deo101 [Millennium]

Yep

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

I agree that this is a case where there's no reason to think a beta reader has better judgment than you have yourself

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

yeah my friends are all like me

DanitheCarutor

WTs is weird. I used to have my comic up there totally uncensored, they featured it on the front page for about a month, but when someone flagged the nudity they wouldn't put the pages back up. Like... you think they would have known already? The nude scene is within the first 20 pages.

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

and don't think much of gore and swearing and such

fuck dani don't say that you're making me paranoid again

RebelVampire

Classic it only takes one person to ruin something for everyone else

DanitheCarutor

@Eightfish (Puppeteer) From what I've seen of your nude scenes, I don't think anyone will really notice. I didn't even notice until you brought it up one time on here... or maybe it was in the Webcomic Updates server.

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

i hope so but as rebel said only takes one staff member

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

Can i just chime in to say that the auto censoring with what y'all have said about WT really turns me off from that platform. Not into a site having that power, regardless of who uses it. It's like we said here, be responsible with your work with tags, but that extra hand in the pot makes me think of tumblr style censors and im not a fan.

Does tapas do that too?

Deo101 [Millennium]

Webtoon doesn't really have tags, it just has a toggle for a series being mature

They both do

So they don't get removed from app stores

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

Ye i guessed as much

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

Tapas has this feature that lets creators tag individual episodes as mature. BUT there is an additional layer -- if your comic is too mature even with the mature tag, they're forced to hide it from their iOS app, due to Fruit Company regulations.

DanitheCarutor

WT is trash, and the reader base is made up of children, don't go there! Tapas is pretty alright, they're fine with my comic being uncensored there, and they don't censor comments.

Yeah, there's what Keii said about the Apple app too.

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

And it's up to Fruit Company to determine whether it's too mature or not. (Mine is too mature because of body hair, and I was told they'd put it back on the app if I erased the body hair in a specific episode)

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

Still not a fan of that kind of censorship. And i agree with dani

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

ohh yeah i remember that body hair thing kei

DanitheCarutor

Oh crap, were we not supposed to name drop the app?

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

Excuse me body hair

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

Webtoons on the other hand will straight up remove any too mature episodes across all of their platform...s (site, iOS, android) if Google says "this is too mature"

Deo101 [Millennium]

I don't think it's censorship, it's more not allowing certain things on your platform

They're not saying you can't make it just that you can't post it there

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

It is censorship U cant post ur piece in its intended form

Like....body hair Wtf

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

I think that depends on how you define censorship

In any case, it's definitely not ideal.

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

That is so .... Like Way to show what standards they want

DanitheCarutor

Gah the body hair thing. Thinking about it, I never got contacted by Tapas about my comic's mature content, but they probably knew trying to censor it would be a lost cause. Lol They probably just threw straight off the app.

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

That's horrible Dani

DanitheCarutor

Naah, I don't mind. It's still allowed on the desktop site, and that's the only version I use so it's like nothing ever happened.

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

Still a gross move on their part. Not enthused with the passion to appease app stores with removing content that isn't 'suitable', but that is a diff convo.

DanitheCarutor

As one last derailing bit, if you're ever looking for a hosting site, Comicfury is the best for mature and adult work. They don't censor ANYTHING! Except hate-speech.

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

Oh i keep seeing more and more talk about that! Can i ask u more about it in shop talk?

DanitheCarutor

Sure, go ahead! I'll answer to the best of my abilities.

Cronaj (Whispers of the Past)

Wow

Just caught up

Back to the warnings thing...(edited)

In my experience, there are certain reasonable leaps in seriousness in comics, and other times when it appears jarring and out of nowhere, but in that case, I think it's simply bad writing, unless of course, it's a genre like horror.

But I think an author deciding to put content warnings should be up to the author on a case by case basis.

There are simply too many variables to come up with specific ground rules

As an example, I have a scene later on in my comic where a child dies. I don't show how it happens, but I was planning on showing the body afterwards. Nothing too gruesome, but definitely some broken bones. And I have been told completely opposite things, that it should be okay because I'm not showing the actual death, and on the other side, that showing the body at all is terrible, and I shouldn't do it. My concern is... If I don't show the body, how will the readers know that the child is dead? And how will I show the reactions of the other characters? It's just too complicated and specific of an issue to rely on general guidelines.

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

B'ys, the real answer is to stop writing webcomics altogether! I'm telling ye! no webcomic, no problem!

I mean, sure, we'll be bereft of artistic output and dreams will be crushed...but hey, less stuff to do. Silver lining.

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

what you mean most of us has made somewhat a living doing comics lol(edited)

Cronaj (Whispers of the Past)

Lol, I want to make comics so uhhhhh???

Joichi [Hybrid Dolls]

Aw...That sounds sad but depends how the body is presented? I mean I've seen mystery games with afew dead characters? Not a child yet.(edited)

Sometimes I've seen Anime do a light censorship by showing a bloodied child's shoe or gloves, or an arm but it can be disturbing(edited)

Cronaj (Whispers of the Past)

It's just that... dead children is a sensitive topic

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

Yeah, a limp arm is what I often see

DanitheCarutor

I think it's because showing dead children is considered taboo? Like some games where you can kill other characters won't give you the ability to kill children, as well as movies that show character deaths won't show a child's death. It might be too insensitive for some people because children are innocent, and many people have had/are having kids, so showing them might be extra upsetting? At least that's what I assume is the reason behind someone saying not to show the child's death.

Ah, didn't notice Cronaj already said it in much fewer words.

snuffysam (Super Galaxy Knights)

Ah yes, that reminds me that there are places where I put up different warnings than what the comic has - my side stories. Since my side stories are often ways for me to explore different styles of storytelling than the comic proper, they can often have different themes. Off the top of my head - one side story I wrote had a warning for cussing, one had a warning for descriptions of violence against a child, and one had a warning for getting in a bit deep into a character's PTSD. (oddly enough, both of those latter warnings were in reference to the same character, just with a time gap of a few years. though the PTSD in the one story involved a completely different event than the violence depicted in the other story. pejiba's had it rough)

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

@Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!) , @Cronaj (Whispers of the Past) , I was making a joke. :p

sssfrs (JOE IS DEAD)

I think the worst thing I'm going to show visually is a dead body and the whole story is about there being a dead body so I don't feel the need for any additional internal content warnings. I think my rule of thumb is just not to show anything that would be more shocking or upsetting than the premise of the comic would have you expect, and to have all warnings at the outset.

I agree with snuffysam's approach to separating darker and scarier content into side stories with their own content warnings or at least I would take a similar approach myself. It's okay to make stories that depict difficult topics but I think it's better not to disrupt the flow of a more lighthearted story if it can be avoided. Exploring difficult topics outside of the main story is a good solution to that

sagaholmgaard

I put a content warning the first time there was some violence and blood in my comic, since the previous pages had been mostly cute so I figured it was warranted. I'm coming up to the second time something potentially triggering happens- a guy gets killed 'on screen', but I don't think it's rendered in a worse way than the first time so I'm considering whether it's good to warn every time a scene like this comes up or if the first warning is enough to readers to have opted out if they dont want that sort of content

chalcara [Nyx+Nyssa]

I had a read-up on age ratings and found out Nyx+Nyssa would fall under PEGI-16 due to realistic violence towards human characters, and will simply stick a 16+ sign into the corner of my page, which links to a conscience explanation why.

Desnik

So recently I've joined a writer's group and they ask people to stick warnings upfront so that readers can opt out of reading something that will upset them. I've found that it's helpful to warn for things that cause certain phobias, religious criticism, and minority experiences depicted w/o a sensitivity reader's guidance. I would also warn for drugs/alcohol usage since reading about that kind of experience can be a trigger for addictions.

I don't tend to write about anything super visceral but when reading I know I appreciate warnings about certain types of gore or violence

I think it's beneficial to be extremely specific with tags because for some reason YA-rated stuff can be very violent (so that makes age-based ratings completely nonsensical). Also not every story is going to treat serious issues with the same gravity so I think it's helpful to mention if some aspect is being treated in a melodramatic/unrealistic manner on purpose.(edited)

Joichi [Hybrid Dolls]

Like a standard comic might take say... 10 pages or more. Webtoon tends to shorten this roughly by half. Or by the 3rd or 4th episode, that major plot point happens.(edited)

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

I feel "have a natural flow" is easier said than done, and also can mean very different things for different stories, and even different readers responding to one story.

(Maybe we should move this to shop talk as it's not relevant to this week's topic?)

Joichi [Hybrid Dolls]

oh this is in shop talk? ok, I thought creator babble was relevant to this.

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

Nah, creator babble, if I understand it correctly, is specifically for weekly questions. This week's question is about content warnings

AntiBunny

My story is heavily inspired by film noir, so I think the occasional burst of violence should be expected.

[merigreenleaf]

Unexpected Inspiration - Piquant, Imp & Muse of Culinary Arts

In the last moodboard post I began introducing Concordia's mythological figures with Mortise, the first and oldest of the Muses. Piquant is the youngest and, if prejudice had had it's way, he never would have become one. This is all because Piquant is an imp, which meant he had to fight preconception and hatred to prove his innocence.

This is ironic because imps are the epitome of innocence. They're small humanoids who are incapable of deception or betrayal. They simply don't have the thought capacity to understand anything but truth and this is largely because their tiny heads are filled with thoughts of food. While imps have no magic of their own, they survive by feeding from magic. Magic is not always easy to come by, however. Most don't reach adulthood. If the inability to locate food doesn't kill them, the beings who possess magic do. Not outright, as the people who have magic on the imps' home world are pacifists, but being denied food is just as much a death sentence. To help obtain the glowing arcane energy imps consider food, they evolved a camouflage. This gave their bodies the appearance of whatever plant life houses their nests; some look like blueberry bushes, some have skin mimicking bark of an oak tree. Their natural camouflage keeps them from being discovered while still immature implings who don't yet have the strength to fly far from their nests. It also once allowed them to approach their food without notice. When the people of their world began building elaborate homes in large cities away from the forests and woods, it grew even more difficult to reach their food without getting caught. This was bad enough. Then all the people vanished, taking with them their personal magical glows and the glows in the arcane objects they created. Gradually the imp population began to diminish as some flew away to find food. These never returned to their nests. The ones who stayed started to die off as they reached adulthood and were unable to feed. The imps were panicked, afraid, not understanding where the people and their filling food-light had gone.

Then a new person, a kind they'd never seen before, came to each nest to make an offer. If the imps helped him, they would have food, all the food they could want. Most of the remaining imps followed, including almost all from a nest within a mushroom colony.

One imp ignored the newcomer and remained behind. 

(More about Piquant under the read more! This turned into sort of a short story.)

That imp wasn't drawn by the promise of food because he had already discovered a source of it that no other imp had found. Deep in one of the overgrown stone nests where the non-imp people had lived before they disappeared, this imp had found glows! This food wasn't as filling as the pulsating, living glow surrounding each of the non-imp people, but he had it all to himself with no other imp around to force him to share it. He lived off this supply for several seasons (imps having no concept of time longer than a day or shorter than a season) until a sudden voice rang out. He bolted out of the room with the voice echoing through the empty halls. Strangely, it never grew any closer and no person grabbed him. Curiosity winning over self-preservation, he crept back to find it coming from a strange box. Somehow one of the people had put his voice into it and whenever the imp touched the box, it would speak. It was always the same people-words repeated, words he didn't really understand, but as the days went by it became a comfort and a companion. The imp had never experienced loneliness because always there had been more imps-- too many imps even without much food-- and now it was too quiet. Only this voice, and the words he began speaking back to it, filled the empty stone nest.

Until one day there was a second voice. This one felt like the brightest, most blinding glow, the closest the imp had to a comparison of beauty, and it captivated him. He expected another box and instead was led to the doorway through which all of his siblings had crossed seasons before. Without a glance back, the imp followed the new voice. He fell as he crossed the threshold when his wings vanished, but his physical changes were unimportant. All that mattered was the voice. As he sought this out, he discovered that he was in a place with glowing people again. Not all of the people had this light, and the ones who had didn't look the same as the glowing people from his home. Still, he didn't want to risk being discovered in case they were the ones who had caught his kind before, so he fed from more objects like he'd eaten in the nests of stone.

As he began to adjust to this place, he realized that even though he was eating, everyone else around him was hungry. He tried to help by handing them the glowing objects, but always they chased him away. If he couldn't give them food, they would starve, and then they would not be around to make more of the glowing objects. With the doorway he'd entered now closed, he couldn't return to his old food. He would starve, too. If only he could get them to understand that he wanted to help!

It was while he was investigating what non-imp people ate that he stumbled on the voice. It belonged to one of the glowing people. He waited until the other glowing people left, then stepped forward. To his surprise, the owner of the voice began speaking to him as though he wasn't an imp. All the new glowing-people knew him for what he was, even with the different, larger body he'd gained when crossing through the doorway, and treated him the same way the old glowing people had in his home. To be talked to as though he was another person and not an imp left him bewildered. Bewildered yet also thoughtful. The time spent alone had given the imp more patience than his kind normally possessed, and a steady, reliable source of food had granted him the opportunity for deeper thought. He could observe and he could think, and what he realized was that this person couldn't see well. For the first time an imp told a lie by not telling the truth; he didn't reveal that he was an imp. The person called himself Daegal and when he explained what this meant, the imp had no name to give in response. Imps didn't have names because there was no guarantee one would live long enough to be worth remembering. It was Daegal who decided to call Piquant that name and it was Daegal who Piquant told of his wish to help.

Together they devised a plan, but it would need the help of a being in the grotto at the center of the city. Piquant was elated to discover that a grotto meant trees. He was less excited to learn that "city" meant "that huge stone nest over there filled with glowing people." Inside the city, Piquant was stopped what felt like every few steps. Always, however, Daegal's alluring voice convinced the people to let him through. When Piquant himself stopped, overwhelmed by the long-yearned for smell of earth and trees when they finally reached their destination, Daegal took his hand. After a moment of confusion-- he wasn't hungry and didn't feed from people anymore-- Piquant realized this was a gesture of reassurance. He squeezed back, then scampered up a tree. He'd missed the feeling of being off the ground and, feeling more like himself than he had in ages, he called out to the being Daegal promised was there.

The answer came along with a warning. The being would help channel Piquant's innate drive for food and his desire to share what he had into a way that would feed the people of this new place. It could make the peoples' food, plants similar to the ones that grew in Piquant's nest, grow faster and larger. It cautioned Piquant that the road to getting people to accept his help wouldn't be easy, especially because it wouldn't allow Daegal's influential magic to be used this time. That was okay. All that mattered to Piquant now was that Daegal and all the others would have enough food of their own.

It took time (enough that even Piquant's patience began to grow thin) and more hand squeezes from Daegal (who later told him that his claws were a dead giveaway of what he was-- and later still his teeth a definite giveaway), but Piquant was able to convince the people of his new home that he meant them no harm. No, he didn't feed from their personal glows. Yes, he was technically stealing from the things they made, but they supposed this was better than taking from them directly. No, the imps being sent against them-- so that was where his siblings went!-- didn't actually mean them harm, they just needed food, too. Yes, they'd probably abandon the one who had promised food if they were offered safer and more reliable food. No, he really didn't appreciate being called a pest, he had a name now. Helping the being from the grotto to channel his hunger into something productive was easy compared to this negotiation. After all, he had that wonderful voice cheering him on.

Eventually truth became history and history became myth. Instead of Piquant being remembered as the imp he was, legend portrays him as a mushroom-person who brought culinary magic to Concordia.

-------------------

Muses: Stele | Chiaroscuro | Mortise | Pritchel | Whorl/Weft | Andante | Tessera | Scriven | Piquant | Group Board (Links will be added as I share the boards)

“Someday They’ll See” - Short story about Piquant and Daegal

-------------------

And I’m back into doing moodboards on Mondays! :D This turned into a super long post, but it’s so cool because I didn’t know most of this before this weekend! And until I started typing this, I had no idea that Piquant had a Thing with one of the other Muses. You’ll learn more about Daegal soon when I get to his Muse moodboard. (Minor Spoiler: he’s Scriven.)

Please let me know if you want to be added or removed from my series tag list and please tag me in your story things even if you’re not on my tag list. I love seeing what writeblr is up to. <3 @homesteadhorner @ageekyreader @lynnafred @the-gay-hufflepuff @oceanwriter @desperatlytryingtowriteabook @muffindragon227 @theguildedtypewriter @toboldlywrite @wchwriter @ghostsmooches @lady-redshield-writes @bluemartlet @reeseweston @forlornraven @dreameronthewind @shadow-maker @pen-for-sword @loopyhoopydrabbles @emptymanuscript @madmoonink @megan-cutler @perringwrites @elliot-orion  @thatwriternamedvolk @indecentpause @writer-on-time  @ravenpuffwriter @siarven @worldbuildingwren @hiddswritingrefs @fannistwrites @cay--scribbles @focusdumbass @crartistic @paper-shield-and-wooden-sword @enasroterfaden @missrobinswritings @joshuaorrizonte @zofiehelen @kainablue 

[thatsanswitch]

Scars: Part One (Detroit: Become Human)

Summary: Connor can remember each time he dies. He wants to escape it, he wants to be free from the memories that fill him with panic. He becomes self destructive, wanting nothing more to disappear from this life. 

Pairings: Connor X Markus, Familial Hank X Connor

Trigger Warnings: Depression, Self Harm, Scars, Attempted Suicide, Negative Thoughts, Mild Gore, Strong Language, Guns. Let me know if I missed something

Word Count: 1345

A/N: I’m okay, I’m not going to hurt myself. I just had an idea and whoops my hand slipped. This is part one, so it’ll be a multiple part series. If you assume there’s going to be an update scheduled, you’ve made a wrong assumption, I’m really sorry. By the way, this is mainly angst, so get ready to maybe cry, I’m sorry. Also mild spoilers, so read with caution. 

Tag List: @blueunderworlds, @but-a-tiny-star-trying-her-best 

He didn't know why he did it, why he cut his arms up like this. He couldn't feel pain, so why? Why was he damaging himself?

He could remember all the times he died. The panic, the fear.

Cobalt blue thirium  dripped into the sink, striking against the bright white porcelain.

Connor held the blade against his synthetic skin once more, pressing down on it until blue covered the blade.

Weak. He was so weak. He shouldn't feel this way, he shouldn't fe el anything!

He was just an android. Just a robot. Just plastic and wires. He shouldn't exist, he was just an abomination created by man.

He didn't ask to be made, he didn't want this.

Tears mixed with the thirium pooling in the sink.

Tears... was he... crying?

He slowly lifted his hand to his face, fingers brushing across his cheeks. A sob escaped his lips.

Why did they do this? Why were they mocking him like this? Why did they make him so... real? He was almost human, almost... No matter how many tears he shed he was just going to be another android, one in a million, just another android.

Another cut, one after the other, wounds closing slower and slower.

There was a loud knock on the bathroom door.  He jumped, dropping the razor.

"Connor, are you still in there?" It was Hank.

"Y-yes Lieutenant." He stammered.  

"Well hurry up in there, for fucks sake."

He rinsed his arm off, but the thirium wouldn't stop flowing from his cuts.

Why weren't they closing!?

Panic rose in his chest, as the water and thirium flowed into the sink.

"Connor?" Hank called out.

"O-one minute Lieutenant!" He cried

The door swung open.  

Connor looked up in panic, tears pouring down his face, his LED flashing red.

"Conner what... what are you doing?" Hank asked.

"Lieutenant, I'm sorry I-I didn't... I'm sorry... They won't stop bleeding, it won't stop, I'm sorry." He sobbed.

"Oh god, Connor..." Hank whispered, as he stepped towards Connor. He turned off the water, and grabbed a hand towel. He dried Connor's arms off, the towel quickly stained dark blue.

"I'm sorry... I'm so sorry..." He mumbled, hanging is head.

"It's okay, Connor, it's going to be okay." Hank wrapped his arms around him, pulling him into a hug.

Hank led the android to the kitchen, and sat him at the table. He opened one of the drawers, and pulled out a roll of bandages.

He sat down at the table, and carefully grabbed Connor's arm.

"Why were you hurting yourself, Connor?" Hank asked softly.

"I... Every time I die, I remember it... My last moments filled with panic, and fear... I don't want to remember, I don't want to..." He said.

Hank paused. "I didn't know, I'm sorry."

Connor looked up, eyes meeting Hank's. "I don't want to be here, I don't want this...  Please make it stop." He said, voice almost silent.

Hank's eyes filled with tears. "I can't Connor, I'm sorry, I don't know how to make the pain stop, I'm sorry." He said.

Connor stood up. he walked over to the coffee table, and picked up Hank's gun.

"But you do..." He handed Hank the gun. "Shoot me."

"What- Connor no!" Hank yelled, standing up.

Connor flinched. "Please, lieutenant. I don't want to be here, and you don't want me here. You hate androids, remember? I'm just a plastic prick with a stupid face right!? Just shoot me!" He shouted, tears running down his face.

"No, Connor! I can't do it!"Hank said, throwing the gun down on the table.

"Why not, Lieutenant?" He asked.

"Because I love you Connor! Because for the first time since Cole died, I feel happy. I feel like I have my son back." He said.

"If you love me, then you'll shoot. Please." Hank stared at him, as he struggled to speak.

"Fine. If you won't shoot me, I'll shoot myself." Connor quickly grabbed the gun, and held it to his head.

"Put the gun down Connor. Please. Don't do this, I can't lose you too." Hank said quietly.

Connor's hand dropped slightly, as he sobbed harder. "Why are you making this so hard? Why won't you just let me go?"

Hank moved towards him quickly, knocking the gun out of his hand and pulling him into a hug. Connor clung to Hank, sobbing into his shirt.

"It's okay, I've got you." Hank whispered soothingly.

"I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I shouldn't have done it, I'm sorry..." Connor's voice was muffled, as his tears soaked through Hank's shirt.

They sank to the floor, as Hank rested his head on Connor's.

They sat in silence. Connor's rapid heart beat slowed, as his breathing calmed. The android had fallen asleep. Hank carefully picked him up and stood, walking into the guest room where Connor was staying. He gently laid him in the bed and left the room, closing the door behind him.

Hank sat down on the couch with a sigh. He had failed Connor, he hadn't realized how bad he had gotten... Tears stung his eyes, as a shuddering sob ripped through the heavy air He had lost so much, he couldn't bear to think about what would happen if he lost Connor.

No, he knew exactly what would happen. It would kill him. It would be like losing Cole all over again.

Hank had fallen asleep on the couch. His loud snoring echoed the house, as Connor crept quietly from his room.  He entered the kitchen, his gaze falling on the gun. He carefully picked it up, fighting the urge to pull the trigger.

Instead he put it in a kitchen drawer, underneath a few dish towels.

"Connor?" Hank called out.

Connor walked over to him. "Yes Lieutenant?"

"Connor, you know you don't have to call me that, we're not at work." He said.

"I'm sorry Lieu- Hank." He said quietly.

"Are you feeling better?" Hank asked.

"I suppose so... I'm sorry for what happened last night." He sighed.

"It's okay, you don't have to apologize. " He said gently.

Connor sat down next to Hank. He grabbed his arm, and unwrapped the bandages. Connor's pale, thirium stained skin was slightly marred.

"It... didn't heal?" Connor muttered.

"It looks like it's scarred." Hank said.

Connor's face flushed. "I must have damaged the plastic underneath."

"Come on, let's clean your arm up." Hank sighed.

Hank stood up, and Connor followed. They walked to the kitchen and Hank turned the water on, carefully running Connor's arm under it.

"Hank, we should probably head to the station soon." Connor said quietly.

"There's no chance in hell I'm letting you do to work today." Hank said, turning the water off. He handed Connor a towel. "No, we're staying here. You are going to relax today, got it?"

"But-"

"No buts! Come on, we both had a rough night, please don't fight me on this." Hank said firmly.

Hank left the kitchen, and sat down on the couch. Connor set the towel down on the counter, and went to his room. He sat down on his bed, absentmindedly running his fingers over his now scarred skin.

His phone buzzed loudly. He picked it up and saw it was a text from Markus. He wanted to go to lunch, a double date with them, and Kira and Luther.

He smiled despite the night before. He sent back a text, and stood up.  He changed from the loose white tee and sweatpants he was wearing, to a pair of jeans, a shirt, and the leather jacket Hank had gotten him a while back.  

He slipped the phone into his pocket, and went down the stairs.

"Hank, I'm going out with Markus, we're getting lunch with Kara and Luther. I'll see you in a bit." He said.

"I hope you all have a good time. Say hi to them for me, and if you need anything, just call okay?" Hank said, as he hugged Connor.

"I will. I'll see you later." Connor bid him goodbye and left.

[ghostmartyr]

Pokémon White Randomized Nuzlocke Run [Part 11]

We have made it to post-game!

Sort of!

The plot done away with, now is the time to explore the rest of the map and wrap up the entire run with one last go at the Elite Four in their final form!

Our main contestants are

still spoiler tagged!

for maximum worrying.

Let’s get marching.

Back in the room where it all began. I wonder if this beginning will also start with my friends running in unannounced and starting a battle with me. ...That would be bad, it’d better not.

...Looker. I’m gonna level with you.

I don’t wanna be a junior detective.

He’s still on the trail of Team Plasma, and has decided to assign us the task of tracking down the Seven Sages. He also gives us a Super Rod. I don’t think we could fish before this, which is kind of an odd feature for a pokemon game.

Looker’s a nut, but an endearing nut.

Ah yes, my besties.

And hey, Professor Juniper’s dad shows up to upgrade my pokedex! Half my team will no longer be without numbers!

So. Now what.

Which really means, do I let Buzz Fly me to Nimbasa or Opelucid?

I think the Nimbasa route will contain a bridge.

We’re going on the bridge.

Though before we do that, I want to check out the train area again to see if the IV person is there now that I’ve beaten the plot. I’m probably just misremembering their entire existence, but I could have sworn someone was down there.

DUDE! LOOK AT WHO’S RIGHT!

Okay okay okay we’ve got to give this a full check.

Frogger is above average, with fantastic Attack and Special Attack. Rojo is decent, with very good Special Defense. Tock is above average with very good Special Attack. Fido is above average with HP that ‘can’t be better.’ That explains a few numbers. Batman is above average with fantastic HP. Palm is above average with fantastic Speed.

Rojo, you poor, useless legendary.

You are still one of the most broken things on the team, and I love you for it.

That’s more rounded than I expected, honestly. I figured a few of them would just be terrible, and maybe one would be extraordinary, but it’s above average across the board. Which is. kind of average. Pokemon NPCs are kind people.

APTLY NAMED BRIDGE. ALSO KNOWN AS A NEW ROUTE, LET’S GO FEATHER DROPS.

The dude offering me a Magikarp to buy does not count as the first encounter. Also, I did not buy it. It is not randomized, and as we all know that means it’s awful.

That’s pretty much my reaction, word for word.

Ghetsis told them to give me the Adamant Orb. And the Lustrous Orb. And the Griseous Orb. I think those are... Diamond and Pearl’s legendary special items?

Then the ninja zoom away after telling me we’ll never meet again.

That’s one lazy way to get rid of ninja. I could have sworn I fought them once... wait, did I? That seems like something I could go back and check. Eh, whatever.

Speaking of lazy things, was Team Plasma having a giant castle ever explained? I feel like it wasn’t. I’m okay with that, I just want to know.

The inclusion of the wings you can pick up on bridges were really helpful to EV training. I don’t know how many hours I would spend biking on bridges, and frankly the answer would likely depress me, but picking up all those feather things was so useful.

Of course, I have no real use for them at the moment. I’m trying to find a pokemon in those shadows.

I found one!

Look at you, little adorable guy. Oh, girl.

Quick Ball, then faint if that doesn’t work.

Caught her!

What’s your name, though... gotta go with something musical... I dub thee Pink.

Some girl in the gateway area wants to have a Rotation Battle with me. Like a fool, I say yes, and--

Oh shit.

I was kidding when I called myself a fool, but no, yes, that classification stands. Ahahaha. Um. Okay so after this, I’m gonna. Gonna go to Opelucid instead, maybe.

I didn’t even look at Pink’s level when I caught her. It was all Quick Ball action and ignorance. Could I have been forewarned?

This is bad.

Rotation Battles in general irk me. Rotation Battles that place me at a considerable level disadvantage are. something else. Oy.

Um.

I think the Alomomola might have Water Absorb. But Frogger is the most likely to survive whatever awful thing is about to happen. So that limits me to attacking with Mud Shot or Hyper Voice until the Alomomola is downed. It’s a Normal move. It isn’t going to do much against a Steel type, and it doesn’t do much against Beheeyem either, but I think one of those probably has Levitate for their Ability.

Frogger should not be in front.

He is staying in front.

So far, none of these things are using an actual attack, which I’m grateful for.

As I say that, Alomomola uses Hydro Pump. Frogger’s still green, so. Yeah.

Frogger just keeps using Hyper Voice. He’s going to run out of PP for it. Oh well.

Next Hydro Pump gets him low enough to warrant a Hyper Potion.

Beheeyem uses Power Split. Beheeyem’s not bad and this one is a higher level, so I’m not sure how bad that is.

Good news! Nothing has Levitate, and the Klinklang is defeated!

Alomomola is also defeated!

Beheeyem is defeated!

Yikes.

That only went so well because the other trainer almost never used attacks. It was all status stuff except for Hydro Pump, which missed twice. Something would be dead if a human trainer had been guiding those move choices.

I think I’m going to go outside and check what the wild life is like. It’s possible that the huge level difference is an artificial thing with this one trainer, rather than the norm. I mean, her AI virtually never attacked me. So I’ll hold off on going to Opelucid until I get a look at what other people have.

It could also be that I am underleveled for post-game life.

One thing at a time.

Exploring time.

Oh. That guy’s a trainer. He has a level 62 Gulpin.

Okay, so I’m not comfortably leveled for this, but as long as I don’t fall into a Rotation Battle or a Triple Battle, I have items, and the exp will be worthwhile. I think I’ll keep going, with special attention paid to caution. Maybe something in the grass can help me out with some mild grinding.

I biked all the way back to a Pokemon Center.

That is how much confidence I am feeling.

Something should have a Lucky Egg, but I don’t even know if it’s safe to be here, let alone who my front runner should be.

...Fine, it’s Frogger, never mind.

I’m sorry Frogger, I have no idea why I’m so uninterested in cultivating you. I should be better about not taking you for granted and appreciate that you are the one true survivor of this squad.

It’s just you’re also level 60. So not the thing most in need of exp.

Hello possible new friend. It’s level 48, so I think it might be that the post-game sections just have a level jump for trainers. Delightful.

Quick Ball ftw, Baltoy is now Woody.

Munna’s also in this grass. I can’t help but notice these things are not great for grinding.

Trainer with a level 65 Altaria.

I think Rojo might need to try to handle it before anything more creatively unfortunate happens. Altaria’s a Special Defense pokemon, and I think has a few really great Defense-boosting stat moves. If I let it, it can sweep.

It might also be able to kill Rojo in one hit already, but.

Argh, I hate this, lol.

Rojo, go in, if something happens I’m sorry in advance.

Yeeeeeah this Altaria is doing what I thought it would and I don’t care for it. Dragon Dance plus the Cotton thing that drastically raises Defense. .I am afeared. It uses another Dragon Dance.

Oh good job Rojo. Critical hit for the save. Good job, good job.

Abomasnow is up next.

Fido, you’re up.

Fido eats it.

You know. I like this better when I’m not chronicling every single fight out of the fear of imminent death. The next trainer looks like a Fighting one, so Tock is moved to the first slot.

Are you fucking kidding me.

New plan!

We’re murdering legendaries for breakfast!

Because exp!

Side note: Air Slash has 95 accuracy. Why is it always missing.

...Oh fuck.

I hecked up. Badly. Oh fuck. no.

I thought. Tock would out-Speed. Which I would have realized was a stupid thought if I had actually spent any time thinking about Tock’s features and the fact that the Hitmontop has eight levels on him.

I thought about healing him. Those missed Air Slashes left a lot of damage.

You know what also leaves a lot of damage.

STAB Close Combat.

Stop. thinking. “oh I’m sure it will be fine.”

-cradles head in hands-

I am so sorry Tock.

I.

Fuck, this was not supposed to happen. I shouldn’t be allowed to touch Flying pokemon. Ever. Or fight Fighting pokemon. The fact that this keeps happenings suggests some underlying stupidity.

Damn it.

Damn it.

This. Tock. Buddy.

ALL THOSE FUCKING SLUGMA.

FUCK I JUST REALIZED IN THE MIDDLE OF MY EMOTIONS. I DIDN’T USE TOCK AGAINST N OR GHETSIS. ALL OF THAT EV TRAINING. ALL OF IT. FOR NOTHING BUT RANDOM FIGHTS.

ALL

THOSE

SLUGMA

IT WAS A LOT OF HOURS.

I. Hell, I am so sorry Tock. I did everything wrong for your final moments. You would still be alive (assuming Close Combat wouldn’t have killed you in one hit regardless, which... I will never get to know) if I had just been more careful and less stupid. Five seconds of common sense would have put you out of harm’s way.

I am just. so sorry. This shouldn’t have happened.

You have such a sweet, innocent face and I...

I am upset?

I can’t even pick someone else for the team yet. It can wait. Nothing can really replace Tock, and I can’t act otherwise.

I can take Bandit for a walk, though. There are boulders nearby.

-eliminates Reshiram with no joy in heart-

Hell.

I think this place has more uses if you are not playing on the computer.

It has grass. That’s the important thing of the moment.

Hey little guy.

Quick Ball go, Quick Ball get.

I don’t know what to call you.

So. I’m gonna go with Tick.

FOR THE LOVE OF SOMETHING, STOP SPAMMING THE A BUTTON EQUIVALENT THROUGH CONVERSATIONS WITH PEOPLE I DID NOT WANT A TRIPLE BATTLE BECAUSE THAT IS LIKE THREE TIMES THE CHANCES OF DEATH AND I AM NOT DOING WELL WITH THE NORMAL CHANCES.

It works out thanks to the typing.

But geez self. Show some learning.

See, okay, the kid standing above her also wants a Triple Battle.

Now, what are we going to do?

Go to the Pokemon Center, and then say absolutely because my guys need exp.

I’m not a greatly intelligent human.

Not even a little.

It works out, though. Exp gained, no one dead.

New route.

This trainer has a level 68 Purugly.

I think. I really need to drop everything and grind for a little bit.

Frogger has fallen in love with the Purugly. He is also now paralyzed. After a turn of that, thankfully, he uses Hydro Pump and it hits.

Frogger.

I’m judging you a bit.

Level 68 Espeon. Followed by level 68 Lapras. Good grief I should not be in this place.

.

.

.

THAT ONE WAS NOT MY FAULT.

Ha. Ha. Ha.

This.

Fuck.

Uh.

So uh. There was this Future Sight Batman took. I made the executive decision that it was safer for her to be in there for it than Palm, and. I stand by that. Except then a critical hit Hydro Pump hit. And it’s a level 68 Lapras. So.

So.

You killed Boeing. By catching you, I took away your ability to kill. But I always knew you could still die. You were the terror. You were the knight.

You were Batman.

You deserved to be enshrined forever in the Hall of Fame.

But this is where we part, my friend.

Farewell.

Uh.

...4x STAB Leaf Storm.

I.

This was meant to be the grass encounter where I caught one of them?

I was focused on that?

I did not think a level 59 Petilil could kill Frogger in one shot?

This is.

Bad?

There is also a chance the Petilil is too dangerous to live?

But I catch it, so yay?

Petilil’s new name is Battousai.

And.

And.

This has been the longest hour of this run.

I am in so much more trouble than I was.

Frogger. You were my second pokemon.

You saved the day against the Elite Four.

You were dependable, and I never learned to depend on you.

I did not see us ending this way.

I am so sorry.

...

Hello.

Darkness my old friend.

I’ve come to cry at you again.

So uh.

Guess who. needs a new team.

Ahahaha I am in hell.

...

You know what. I. am going to take a break. This has been an excruciating hour. I don’t care for it. I don’t know what I should put on my new team. All I know is that this is very sad and I continue to be worse at this game than I thought.

So that’s great.

[next session start]

Alrighty then.

-stares blankly-

My party has Rock/Fighting, Fire, Grass/Fighting.

I, uh. Need to fill it.

With stuff.

Piglet (Spoink). You’re coming with. Buzz and Bandit will come along with HMs. I’ll see if I can hit the other routes, then figure the rest of this mess out.

Right. Lesgo.

On the comforting side, the first trainer we see has a level 65 thing too. So the side picked didn’t severely change the outcome of. things.

The first thing I see is Lairon, but I have an Aron.

-considers-

Let’s see if I can catch you.

Score, I can. I forgot the Quick Ball, but damage lined up to make it a clean catch. I’mma name you Daffy.

I think. I need to grind more than anything. My surviving team is very much at risk, and Piglet is wholly untrained. Both of those things need fixing. Hopefully it won’t involve chasing down Slugma.

To Dragonspiral and Jellicent, I guess. One step at a time.

(Bandit learned Surf, by the way. Because. Something needed to know that.)

Piglet is evolving! Form of... Grumpig!

Bodacious.

What EVs does Reshiram give? Because if it’s Special Attack...

That’s worth investigating.

Cue nothing but Baltoy. ...I also don’t know what Baltoy gives. ...Or Snorunt. Snorunt is also here. Along with Piplup.

Reshiram gives Special Attack.

I’m taking this as confirmed based on recording several levels of Piglet’s stats attacking nothing but Reshiram. A wild extra point of Special Attack appeared. That makes some things so much easier. I don’t know the exact numbers on what I’m looking for out of Piglet (I think maybe max HP, some convenient split of Special Defense, Defense, and Special Attack), but. Geez this is a relief.

Looking at the numbers though, Piglet isn’t going to be able to pack much of a punch no matter how many EVs I pour into him. I need to focus on tank power.

Maxing HP, then whatever’s left will go to Special Defense and Defense.

Only not in that order.

My memory being what it is, I’m not sure, but I think Relicanth might have Defense and Attack EVs. So I’m just here for Cloyster. I’ll down twenty, then go back to HP grinding. Simple.

Cue no Cloyster.

I should level up Bandit so I start getting better stuff with all this walking.

[one hour later]

This is still boring. I should have figured out my other replacements so I could do this all at once. At least one would have to have similar EV desires, right?

But then I’d have to figure out the other two.

My guess is it will be Yanmega and Jellicent. Fluttershy and Peanut.

But.

I want to wait. Just. Just in case.

Also, screw it, Bandit gets the other Exp. Share. I have two, I’m going to use them. I’m also going to use some PP Ups on Fido’s Flamethrower. Healing after every fifteen fights is. No.

[many hours later]

Okay. HP handled.

Sigh.

The journey continues.

[another hour (okay maybe not really)]

Yay!

I think what I want to do right now is level up what I have rather than focus on training any other new ones. I need to watch those exp bars zoom to the moon. It will sustain me in my grief/exhaustion.

Since I’m in Opelucid anyway, I’m just going to go right and hang in the grass until I’m slightly more confident in the ability of my team to not die.

Wild Pichu are not that helpful in that endeavor. Nor are Mime Jr. Granbull. You are our only hope in this arena.

...

I miss Tock [’s Shadow Ball] so much.

The fear of death is omnipresent. Too much has happened. Where once there was confidence, now there is only dread. Recovery is a faint glimmer of a dream off in the distance.

Neat. Kingdra is also here.

-tilts head-

Yeah, repeats. But still.

I wonder if anything helpful’s in the water.

Well. There’s a level 35 Surskit.

Leaning towards a hard no.

Oh wait, what am I doing. It should be all legendary murdering all the time.

It’s so frustrating, because I just keep thinking hey, I can go fight the trainers along the path for more exp! Then the rest of me remembers that I should not do that.

I don’t think I checked out the dark grass in the route I found Reshiram. I’ll check that out for a quick look. It will possibly be followed by running away as fast as humanly possible, but eh.

That’s not too bad.

...Ah. Levels 58 and 57.

Their danger levels and their exp levels sadly do not line up. Gonna stick with the Reshiram grass.

...Also gonna check what’s in the water of the route with the level 68 hellbeasts.

NO I DIDN’T REALIZE YOU TURNED AROUND.

-deep breath-

-deep scream-

Okay. Okay. It’s fine. It’ll be fine.

Level 64 Primeape, Piglet gets switched in. ..And survives a Close Combat crit.

So then, Piglet is at 23 HP thanks to two Thrashes, and now Palm is out to hopefully do away with a level 64 Scrafty. Yes, because Palm is Palm Wonderful. Last one is a level 64 Poliwrath. Palm gets a crit because Palm loves us.

Piglet learns Power Gem because I don’t have the guts to use Rest as a real strategy.

All right. Lived.

Super Rod leads to Palpitoad. That’s not a bad thing to know. Regular Surfing leads to Wigglytuff. That’s better than the Reshiram grass for leveling if it’s the only thing in the water. But then there’s Shellder.

New area!

Undella Town and Undella Bay are different places, so I must take care with Surfing for my new friend.

This is the town’s choice. I throw a Quick Ball. Metapod caught. Now if only he had a name. Hm.

You can be Crystal.

And this is the choice of the bay. Another Quick Ball is thrown. A Hoothoot is caught. Her name is Winnie.

I’m fast approaching the end of new areas. The map is almost completely lit up.

I think it might be okay to face trainers in the water, because I have Palm. So I’m going to try that, and hope I don’t soon have reason to cry like a baby again.

Level 63 Staryu.

You know, my new question is why that one girl had level 68 monstrosities.

There’s a Quagsire here that we don’t get to catch. ;-;

Oo, and Electrode. I’ve always loved Electrode. It smiles.

I have the HM for Dive now! Yay?

RUN

RUN RUN RUN RUN RUN RUN RUN

RUN.

-severe whimpering noises-

We are not in any way, shape, or form ready for post-game Cynthia. I have memories of grinding against her and others in this house thing, but those teams were allowed to come back after dying.

I will fight her before I fight the Elite Four. Because if I can’t beat her, I have no business facing the Elite Four again (...I think).

Okay, moved up to Route 13 because I don’t actually have anything that can learn Dive. New area. Time to see what we get.

Hmmmmmmmm. Quick Ball get.

Finneon’s new name is F9.

I can’t help but notice that other trainers don’t walk around with level 68 pokemon. I guess that means I really am exploring the entire map before I start training another pokemon. That is possibly misguided, but I really just... am not ready to finalize my final (I hope) team.

Um.

I.

Wait, what the fuck?

I. I was typing.

WHAT HAPPENED WHILE I WAS TYPING. PALM TOOK A HEX BUT HIS HP WAS STILL GREEN AND THEN.

WHAT HAPPENED.

WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED.

It uses Hydro Pump against Piglet, so if I were to guess...

How is this still getting worse.

Palm.

Palm Wonderful.

I have no words.

I am distraught.

I will miss you so much.

I no longer have the option of being cute about this. I can’t be walking around with three pokemon in an area where I’m losing them at this rate. I guess the simple fact is that things are now high enough level to know seriously dangerous moves, and there is no truly safe option except for absurd over-leveling.

I need to select three new ones.

I have Fido, Rojo, and Piglet. Fire, Rock/Fighting, and Psychic. I can basically pick whatever I want. And as much as I hate to say it, Palm’s loss keeps me from being overstocked on Fighting. So. If I wanted...

But what do I want?

I want to stack the deck. How do I do that.

IV checker. Everything I might consider using is getting a free checkup.

It’s a sea of “above average”s. With a few “decent”s here and there.

Maybe I should try something different. Maybe I should just select the pokemon I love most. That’s the point of a Nuzlocke, right? Getting attached? In terms of Type coverage, there are things I can do, but. I don’t wanna do that. I want to pick the things I love most. If it has good odds on ending horrifically no matter what I do, I want to have as much fun as possible.

Swiper and Wagston are in. As for the last one, that remains to be seen.

If memory serves, Riolu evolves into Lucario with good happiness during the daytime. So I should start walking. He will also be given a Soothe Bell. I think I’ll spend my time leveling up what remains. Rojo can kill a million Reshiram and become a demigod in addition to a legendary.

Oh, and sportsball. Let’s go do today’s.

Baseball! Baseball is fun.

Have I been here since finishing the plot?

I have, right? There isn’t going to be a huge level jump?

This level 65 Persian staring me down says I’m a moron.

-paces-

I should not be here. I should leave. Straight away.

But Piglet is a tank. Everything I uses in battle is over 60.

This stupidity is now on record. I’m going to try to beat the baseball peeps.

This level 66 Simipour makes me miss Palm so terribly.

Wow, I should not be doing this.

And yet.

There are a lot more trainers here now.

Level 64 Conkeldurr vs level 64 Piglet. My future nightmares start this way.

Piglet is victorious, and we continue this horrible decision!

...

You know what, this is stupid. Piglet hurt himself in confusion twice, then I used a Lemonade to get him back to full health, then the Unfezant’s Sky Attack did. That.

So. This is going badly.

Piglet, I swear I’d say sorry, but I’m mostly just dwelling on how amazingly screwed I am. So. Uh.

So.

tfw I have two usable pokemon!

[queen-of-deans-booty]

Safe and Sound

Characters: Dean x Pregnant!Reader, Sam, Castiel (mentioned), Lucifer (mentioned), Mary, John, Chuck, Amara, Jody, Alex (mentioned), Claire (mentioned), Donna (mentioned)

Word Count: 2,243

Warnings: spoilers for season 12 in here so please, read with caution. Some angst, some fluff, I love Jody Mills, maybe that’s it? 

Request: Chuck and Amara come back after Season 12 to bring Mary and John back since Cas needs helps with the child since the baby won’t leave the house he was born in. So, Mary and John, along with Sam and Dean go to help them out but since the reader is pregnant, Dean doesn’t want her coming. So, she leaves to go to her hometown before Dean gets back and he comes back earlier than planned and he freaks out.

Author’s Note: I just put up my 800 Follower Challenge so you can take a look at that and participate! I really have high hopes for this one!

I have mixed feelings about this one so let me know what you think. I’m not sure how I feel about it. If you want to be tagged, leave an ask or message and I’ll add you! Same goes for my Series Rewrite! If you want to request a fic, please send them in! I love writing what you guys want!

Feedback is always appreciated

Tags at the bottom

“What are we going to do now?” You sighed, sitting with Sam and Dean. Lucifer and Mary were gone, in another dimension. You had no idea how to get them back or how to ever open that portal door again. You figured Lucifer’s baby had something to do with that.

Cas was taking care of him since the baby only really trusted Cas to be near him. You couldn’t blame the child; Castiel was an amazing care giver. He cared for Kelly and he would care for this Nephilim with his life.

Crowley was dead and as much as you hated demons, you thought Crowley was a friend to you. He just proved that even though you were a demon, you could still be human. All that was left was you, Sam, and Dean. You didn’t know what to do anymore.

“You’re not going to do anything. Sam and I will figure something out.” Dean said, looking at you.

“Excuse me?” You scoffed, crossing your arms.

“Y/N, need I remind you that you’re pregnant? With my child. To hell if you think I’m letting you leave this Bunker.” Dean said, shaking his head. Your hand immediately went to your swollen stomach. You were only 5 months pregnant but Dean was right. Going out there would risk not only your life but your baby boy.

“Right. So, what are you going to do?” You said, sighing. There was no use in arguing with Dean. When it came to you and his son, there was no wiggle room. He won’t let anything happen to you.

“That’s what we are trying to figure out.” Sam sighed, looking through a lore book.

“Sam, I don’t think these lore books would be much of help. As much I want to believe it, the Men of Letters probably didn’t have to deal with this kind of thing.” You said with a sigh.

“Maybe I can help.” Your eyes widened at the familiar voice. But that was impossible. She was gone. You turned around and saw Mary standing in the doorway with a small smile.

“Mom?” Dean and Sam both stood up and was weary about approaching her. How was she here right now?

“I’m right here. I’m really here.” She smiled, walking further into the room.

“How are you back?” You asked, touching her shoulder to make sure she wasn’t a ghost or something. Nope, she was really there but Dean and Sam weren’t stupid. They took out their silver knives, a demon blade, and holy water.

“That isn’t necessary.” You turned to the door and your eyes widened even more. You never met the man but you knew who he was because of Sam and Dean. What the hell was going on?

“John?” You looked at Dean and Sam who got tears at the sight of their parents in front of them after all these years.

“Hi, Y/N, you’re looking good. Hi Sam and Dean.” John smiled and walked to his shocked and frozen kids.

“How are you two here right now?” You asked, not knowing how to process this.

“We brought them back.” Your head whipped to the front door of the Bunker and saw not one but two people enter the place. You didn’t know how they found the place but I guess they could do whatever it is that they wanted.

“Okay, this is some crazy shit right now. I am so confused.” You said, taking a seat.

“Why did you bring them back? Not that I’m not thrilled but everything comes with a price.” Sam said, staring at the one and powerful one: God.

Well, Chuck is what he liked to go by. You remember meeting him when he was writing those Supernatural books. You may have kept a copy or two just because it was interesting to read about your boyfriend’s life before you met him and Sam.

“I had to come down and meet my grandson. Amara wanted to see her great nephew.” Chuck said, walking down the metal stairs with his sister right behind him.

“What happened with taking over the world? You expect us to believe that you both are good now? No offense, your majesty.” You said with a roll of your eyes.

“Y/N, I give you my word that I don’t want violence anymore. Time with my brother saw me of the damage I caused. Now we want to help. We want you guys to help the child. We brought Mary and John back because we know they are capable of helping with the child.” Amara said, standing up straighter.

“So, in other words, you’re leaving again.” You asked, putting a hand on your stomach. You knew that with them back, there would be conflict and you could only think about the safety of your baby. Amara nodded but she walked over to you and knelt.

“What are you doing?” You asked when she placed her hand on your stomach. She closed her eyes and muttered something in a language that you didn’t understand.

“She’s protecting your child.” Chuck said, crossing his arms. You looked at him and then at Dean who looked worried. He wanted to kill anyone who hurt you or his child but this was Amara. Chuck wouldn’t let him kill her and she is too powerful herself.

“There, it’s done.” Amara said, standing up.

“What did you do?” You asked, putting a hand on your stomach to feel your baby boy kicking where your hand was. Dean immediately went to your side and put his hand over yours.

“Your boy will always be protected. No harm shall ever come to him as long as he may live.” Amara said, walking back to her brother.

“Thank you.” You said, looking at Dean who stood up.

“So, are we going to help Cas or what?” Sam asked, grabbing his gun and putting it in his jeans.

“Yes, we should all go.” John said, stepping into the room. You couldn’t believe that John and Mary were with you now in the same room.

“Y/N, you stay here. We’ll keep you updated. We should be back before the weekend is up.” Dean said, walking to your side.

“Please be safe, Dean. I do not want this child growing up without a father,” You looked from Dean and to Sam. “Or an uncle. You understand?”

“Y/N, we will be perfectly safe.” Dean said, giving you a soft kiss before pulling away.

“I know but this is Lucifer’s child we’re talking about. We still don’t know so much.” You said with a sigh.

“Y/N, I will make sure my children are safe and that they will return home to you.” John said, ready to protect the family like he always strived to do.

“Thanks, John.” It felt weird speaking to your boyfriend’s father since the last you heard of him, he was dead. Dean and Sam got ready to go and you were alone before you knew it.

“Okay, I guess it’s just you and me.” You said to your son. You felt him kick and you smiled to yourself, wondering what you should do before they got back. You were too tired to clean, you weren’t hungry, you didn’t want to watch TV, you hated reading, and you didn’t own any speakers to listen to music.

“Wait, I have an idea. Baby boy, looks like we’re taking a road trip. We’ll be back before your father ever shows up. Lord only knows how he’ll react to us gone from the safest place on earth.” You said as you grabbed keys to one of the fancy cars in the Bunker’s garage.

You got in the right car, starting it and leaving the Bunker. It felt nice to be on your own since Dean or Sam was up your ass 24/7. It felt nice to breathe and it felt nice to not be stuck in the Bunker all the damn time. Fresh air was good for you and your son.

You didn’t have a name for him yet because you wanted to decide with Dean and you two just haven’t had time to sit down and think about it. Of course, that didn’t stop you from coming up with a few names. You loved the name Dylan or James. You thought about naming him after John but you didn’t like how he treated his boys.

After Mary died, there was a number of things that he could have done better than putting them into this life at such an early age. You thought of naming him after your father, Marcus, but you didn’t like that name as much as you tried to.

Whatever you named him, you wanted his middle name to be Dean since that man has sacrificed so much for you. You’ve been together with him for such a long time that you couldn’t ever see yourself with anyone else. You loved Dean and everything that he stood for. You knew from the moment you met him, he would make an amazing partner and an even better father.

You were so wrapped up in your head, you didn’t even notice that you made it to where you wanted to go. You were born in a small town called Sioux Falls. You knew Sheriff Jody Mills and that is actually how you met Dean. Sioux Falls was only 6 hours away from Lebanon so you didn’t think it would be a big deal to escape for a few days.

You actually met up with Jody and you were happy to see her and her two adopted daughters. You kept in touch with them over the years and became quite close with them. You decided to stay with them for the weekend, ready to go back before Dean ever got home. You made them promise not to tell Dean or Sam you were here with them.

Dean had too much to worry about and if you were going to be back before he would, there wouldn’t be any need for fuss. What Dean didn’t know wouldn’t kill him.

“Jody, you have to be there. I want Alex and Claire along too. You three are part of my family and I want you to be there. I am due in 3 or 4 months so that gives you plenty of time to plan for this.” You said, sitting on her couch while she drank a glass a wine. You had some soda and it was just you two since Claire and Alex were out.

“Okay, fine, I’ll make sure that I’ll be there.” You wanted her to be there for the birth of your son. She was more of a mother figure than Mary ever will be anyways. You considered Alex and Claire your little siblings and you wanted them there too.

“Oh, and I don’t have Donna’s number. I want her there too.” You said with a smile.

“You want the whole damn town there too?” Jody joked.

“I just want my family there and you guys are that.” You said, smiling. Suddenly, your phone started to ring and you looked at it, your eyes widening.

“Who is that?”

“Dean,” You answered the phone, trying to act innocent. “Hey baby.”

“Where the hell are you?” Dean didn’t sound too happy. He sounded pissed and worried.

“What do you mean? I’m at home. I never left.” You lied, looking at Jody who bit her lip.

“Bullshit. Sam and I are back home and you’re nowhere to be found. So, where the hell are you? Please tell me you’re safe.”

“Dean, I’m okay. I’m with Jody right now. I wanted to take a trip and I ended up at Sioux Falls where I was born. I thought you would be back later.” You sighed, setting your soda down.

“Thank God. Why didn’t you tell me you were heading out?” Dean said with a sigh. You heard Sam’s voice in the background but couldn’t make out what he was saying.

“Because you already have too much to worry about. I didn’t want to add to your plate. I didn’t see a point when I thought I would be home before you. Plus, Jody is such a badass that I feel completely safe with her. If there is a safer place than the Bunker, it would be her house.” You said, assuring your boyfriend that you were safe.

“Please, don’t do that again. I thought…” Dean said, his voice breaking up.

“Dean, I am perfectly safe. Okay? Let me finish my night with Jody and I’ll be back tomorrow morning. It was nice to catch up with her since I never leave the damn Bunker. I promise that tomorrow, I’ll be in one piece. Our son will be in one piece.”

“Okay but after this, I am not letting you out of my sight.” Dean half joked.

“Fine. I love you so much.” You said with a smile.

“Not as much as I love you.” Dean said. You knew he was smiling.

“And here you got me thinking you hated chick-flick moments.” You said, giggling softly.

“You know I’m a sucker for them.” Dean said lowly as if he didn’t want Sam to hear him.

“I know. I love you and I will see you tomorrow.” You hung up before he could say anything else. You turned back to Jody with a smile as you raised your glass to your lips.

“Now, where were we?”

Masterlist // Buy me a Coffee? // Series Rewrite Masterlist

Forever tags:

@maddieburcham1 @ginamsmith @mogaruke  @jarpadandjensenaremyheroes @whit85-blog @inlovewithbja @spn67-sister @kdfrqqg

Dean tags:

@akshi8278 @mega-mrs-dean-winchester @winchesterandpie

Other tags:

@jensen-jarpad @notnaturalanahi @deathtonormalcy56 @27bmm

[kyuiuiuiu]

The Second Sun

Yeah, this is my “surprise”... I wrote a fanfic a time ago, and when I thought that there could be a Yooran week I started the translation (I speak spanish lol). A friend helped me, because my english is not good enought, but you should know that I made this with all my love for the fandom (and my OTP<3). I will post a chapter everyday during the Yooran Week! So I hope you like it<3

☆ You can read it on Wattpad and AO3 too ☆

_____________________________________________

Summary: What do you gain looking at the sky if you never stop to think about the sun?  Or maybe... are you afraid to feel the warmth of the sun?

Disclaimer: The characters and part of the plot belong to Cheritz. The rest is my property.

Tags: Angst, Drama, Romance, Friendship, Hurt/Comfort, Bonds.

CAUTION This story may contain spoilers about the game, since it is set before the last chapter of the Secret 02. It's recommended to read after completing 707's route and the Secrets 01 & 02. Possible high-sounding words. Read at your own risk.

Chapter 1 - The distrust.

For some people, the sky is always the same, but truth is that it's constantly changing. From the stars that are light years away, to the clouds we can see over it during the day —and the night too—. It's a question of each one the meaning or importance that they give to it, but certain people take it as an important reference in their lives.

That’s the case of Saeran. A boy who, after going through some of the worst things in the world, managed to find some peace by watching the sky in solitude. Of course, he now had his brother by his side too, but the sky was always important to him, since it was one of the few happy memories he had of his childhood. It reminded him of that sense of freedom... Something that now, at last, he could try to experience for himself.

But there was a problem.

Saeran refused to establish any kind of contact with anyone else who were not his brother. He distrusted anyone his brother would take to their home, believing that they would try to fool him and Saeyoung, just to bring them suffering as others did in the past. He didn’t like being that way, but he had no choice. It was almost an automatic response from him.

 Weeks passed by, and when he saw his brother a little more stable, Saeyoung began to take the RFA members home so they would try to talk to him. He wished wholeheartedly that Saeran could be a little more confident with his new "family", since they were important and understanding people. People who would do them no harm. He knew them from years ago and he could attest to that. So, with this in mind, he began his plan.

 First he took Jaehee. "She's a girl, maybe she'll be more considerate when she talks to him", thought the boy of glasses. But, for his surprise, she left Saeran's room only a few minutes after entering.

Saeyoung looked at her in confusion, and she returned his gaze with a somewhat forced smile. Then he understood that things had not gone so well. He said goodbye, thanking her, and then she withdrew.

 Saeyoung thought that inviting them all the same week would be a too much for Saeran's mind since he was still recovering from all that had happened, so the following week, he decided to bring Zen.

"Perhaps Zen is the answer. Someone less delicate, but sensitive at the same time", he thought as he saw the actor knocking the door and entering Saeran's room as he asked for his permission.

After just three minutes, Zen left the room paler than usual. When Saeyoung questioned about what happened, he chose not to respond. He just said goodbye and told him he was sorry.

 Another week passed, and he decided it was Jumin's turn.

"Jumin is quite polite and cold, so Saeran shouldn't have problems or feel invaded by him", he thought quietly, watching his friend enter the room in complete calm. The minutes passed and nothing seemed to go wrong until Jumin left the room with his same expressionless face as always.

When Saeyoung asked what happened, he replied, "No one spoke. I thought it wasn't right to force him, so I said goodbye and let him alone."

Hearing this answer, he didn’t know whether to laugh or feel disappointed. Deep down, he was expecting that from Jumin.

The older man said he had an important meeting in a few hours, so he had to leave. Saeyoung walked him to the door and said goodbye.

 There was only one person left... So, the next week and without fail, Yoosung was out the door waiting for his friend to open.

He greeted him with that energy he always had, even though he was feeling his nerves were eating him alive. He had heard only a little about Saeran from what the others had told him —and Saeyoung, of course—. It frightened him a little to think the hacker who had caused so much trouble was his best friend's brother, but it was for this very reason that he agreed to help him.

That's what friends were for.

Saeyoung told him where his brother's room was, so, with some nervousness, Yoosung knocked on the door. He did not hear an answer, so he turned to see his friend with some concern, but Saeyoung immediately calmed him by saying "It's normal, so you can go in."

The blond boy opened the door and, after entering, he closed it behind him.

Everything was silent, and he could see that Saeran was sitting on his bed leaning against the wall near the window, with his gaze fixed on the sky.

Yoosung swallowed and looked down at his feet.

“What exactly should I say? How do you start a conversation?”. Those were some of the questions that crossed his mind.

Yoosung was not used to this kind of things, since he spend more time locked up playing LOLOL in his room.

He gathered courage the best he could, and took some air to speak.

“Ah… Hello, Saeran. I am…”

“Yoosung Kim —he interrupted—. You must be 21 now? Sky University. You are currently studying Veterinary Medicine... And you are obsessed with a game called LOLOL. You don’t need to introduce yourself. It's just like everyone else, I already know everything about you. I used to do that, after all”, he said curtly.

“How cold. He's not even looking at me —he thought as he noticed that Saeran had told him all this without taking his eyes off the window—. I can’t believe that all that information can be found so easily. Although, well, he's a hacker like Seven... It makes sense, but still...”

Yoosung was afraid. He was terrified to speak to someone he knew so little about, but that knew so much about him. However, something forced him to leave behind that fear and try to approach.

He took some air and took a few steps toward Saeran, who had stayed still.

“Hehe… I see you know some things about me, but don’t think that's all!”, said Yoosung, forcing a lively tone. One that Saeran detected immediately.

The same story repeated once again.

Just like the previous weeks, his brother had convinced another of his friends to go and try to talk to him. He knew that they accepted only by courtesy, since he didn’t know them and, considering what happened, he doubted very much that they wanted to approach him by their own initiative. He could feel the joy and the feigned concern in their voices, because he never turned to see them to the eyes. It was not necessary, he knew that everyone was lying.

“Leave me alone", Saeran murmured.

“Eh?”

“I told you to leave. If even your cousin doesn’t care about you, imagine me.”

After hearing this, Yoosung began to retrace the steps he had taken and proceed to leave the room.

“... Bye” he said to Saeran. Then he left the room closing the door behind him.

 Saeyoung was waiting for him impatiently, he could see in his eyes, but the sad look of Yoosung discouraged him immediately.

“It did not work, did it?” He asked with obvious disappointment in his voice.

Yoosung knew this was very difficult for his friend... and for his brother as well. He was hurt by what he said, yes, but he wanted to understand the situation and why Saeran acted like that. And to be able to understand him...

“Calm down, he's just introverted. I know he will get better over time, we all do —he said to cheer Saeyoung, as he tried to hide his discomfort-. I should go now. My house is far away and it’s getting late.

“Okay...” he sighed.

Saeyoung followed Yoosung to the door and said goodbye there. Then he went to his brother's room. He knew that something happened, Yoosung couldn’t fool him so easily.

He knocked on the door, and after a few seconds he opened it. Saeran was still in the same place.

Saeyoung sighed again.

“What did you said to Yoosung?”

Saeran turned to look at him and snorted.

“The truth. I'm not interested in talking to anyone and you know it.”

“You're talking to me”, he teased.

“I know, it's different. Idiot.”

“Well, well —he laughed—. You know I'm doing this for you. I would like you to cooperate a little more, but Yoosung was my last ace under the sleeve... Should I bring Vanderwood?” He thought aloud as he held his chin.

“No thanks. I'm fine alone,” he said instantly. Moments later he was watching the sky again.

Saeyoung decided it was best to leave Saeran alone as he wanted, so he quietly left the room and returned to his work.

 A few days passed normally until someone knocked on the door. Saeyoung couldn’t imagine who might be, since he had not arranged a meeting with anyone these last days. He went to the entrance and, after checking the screen on the side, opened the door with surprise.

"Yoosung?" He asked in confusion.

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