#-i think people focus too much on mischaracterization honestly. like yeah; when you have a franchise going for 30 years characters are gonn

[twipsai]

i never respond to posts that i disagree with, i usually just block and move on, but this one irritated me. especially since i agree with a lot of points said, but theyre surrounded by stuff that i feel like is super misleading the way you phrased it. im just gonna go point by point

i almost thought this was going to be a post i agreed with until i finished the first paragraph. its fine to not like the real time sonic fandubs, but saying Snapcube has been "spamming" them for four years is harsh -- over the course of six years, a total of four sonic fandubs have come out. say what you want about their contents, but i think its unfair to frame it like they were a constant stream of content. additionally, in recent years a lot of people have been singing their praises of early modern sonic; i dont usually see that much hate for games like Adventure 1 and 2, the storybook duology, etc. hell, even 06 has been getting a lot of love recently (though i also dont really venture outside of tumblr. maybe things are different on other platforms? i know that youtube was especially harsh on early modern sonic)

i also havent seen many people praise the new voice cast, though again, that could just be the bubble im in. in general, though, i think that things like the characters voices just comes down to personal preferences, and thats fine! im more of a 4kids sonic x dub voice cast fan myself, and i have my own opinions about the current cast, but thats just how preference works.

"New Fans also praise how Ian Flynn writes the characters, which also sucks because Flynn's version of the characters don't act like the actual Sonic Characters" ,,, like ive been saying, a lot of this is just opinions, but,,,,really? Ian Flynn has been writing for the sonic franchise since 2006, when he started writing for the Archie comics. whether or not you like his writing isnt an issue (like ive been saying, personal preference is its own thing, even if i disagree), but Flynn isnt, like, the sole writer when he works on sonic -- thats just not how writing works, especially not for a franchise as large as sonic. writers work under mandates and are given notes for everything. in Flynn's case, hes stated before that specifically the TailsTube scripts are all reviewed by Takashi Iizuka, the creative officer for sonic and the head of Sonic Team. additionally, it's been said before at the end of Tails' 30th anniversary comic that SEGA double checks everything with the comics -- from scripts to thumbnails to finals, they have a close eye on the whole team's work. Flynn isn't just doing whatever he wants, and hes not writing these alone. using one writer as a scapegoat for why you dont like the franchise as it stands currently is unproductive at best when the writing for Sonic is an extremely collaborative process

(im not going over all of the bullet points you listed, but i have never once seen someone say the sonic fandubs are canon. like, not once. theyre literally listed as fandubs? as ive stated before, we may just be in different parts of the internet, so im willing to believe that some people just dont know what theyre talking about)

i dont disagree with the fact that Sonic was mocked relentlessly in the 2010s, and its the main reason i didnt get into the franchise sooner, but framing its current resurgence as a bad thing is,,, eh? kind of just a bad take imo. not everything is for everyone, i understand that, but is it really such a bad thing that the franchise is starting to take larger steps in the direction it used to be going in, what with Shadow literally sprouting wings like a 2011 amv? thats mostly my opinion, though i can understand how liking something when its hated on only to have people decide they like it later and pretend they always have is very frustrating.

you said in the last paragraph "[...]that I'm gonna have to gatekeep the fuck out of this franchise, which is something don't wanna have to do". this is what made me want to respond to this post in the first place because, lets be honest, when has someone ever responding to someone on the internet with a different opinion ever changed anyones mind. i wanted to respond to this post because no one is asking you to gatekeep the sonic franchise. nothing productive has ever come out of gatekeeping, and it will only alienate potential new fans, and old fans who like the newer stuff as well. the beauty of the world is that you can exist in your space and block anyone who you dont want to see, and continue to do whatever you want. you do not have to gatekeep a franchise. spend your time doing something you like doing.

tldr: all the time you spend hating on things can be spent loving the things you love twice as much. why do you insist on dismissing everything new? for fun?

What sucks about the Sonic franchise is that people only seem to like it when the franchise isn't being itself

Sonic Colors is liked by non Sonic Fans because it's kiddy and lighthearted and not dark and edgy like the 2000s games, which is considered cringe to them and the only time people "like" the 2000s games is when they're talking about those obnoxious Snapcube dubs which they's been spamming for 4 years now

New Fans also praise the current voice cast, which sucks because a majority them don't fit the characters

New Fans also praise how Ian Flynn writes the characters, which also sucks because Flynn's version of the characters don't act like the actual Sonic Characters, (Sonic considering himself as a hero, Tails being Jimmy Neutron, Amy chooses to keep her feelings for Sonic secret and having Tarot Cards be her whole personality, Shadow being an edgy dick, etc) but the New Fans keep insisting that the new versions are better

Also to this day, misconceptions about the franchise and 90s boomers who refuse to let go of the US Lore still persist:

His name is Eggman, not Robotnik

Sonic lives on Earth, not Mobius

Sonic is not obsessed with Chili Dogs

Amy is not a stalker

Sonic has never fucking said "Gotta Go Fast"

Shadow is not an edgelord

People thinking the cartoons and movies are canon

People thinking the Snapcube Dub is canon

Majority of the characters are teens (For some reason people think every Sonic character is a grown adult, even characters like Charmy and Tails)

Also a lot of people seem to forget that the franchise was niche/hated during the 2010s, people didn't give a flying fuck about Sonic and even if they did, they brought it up just to shit on it, it was especially worse when Forces and the Ugly Sonic design came out, everything about Sonic in the 2010s was mocking it, nonstop memes and people saying the franchise only works in 2D (What's worse is that Sonic Mania indirectly proved them right)/was never good, etc

Sonic hate is a lot less common nowadays due to the movies, (mocking Sonic 06 is still brought up to this day tho), however i feel like most of it is people pretending to like Sonic, majority of Sonic praise nowadays comes from the Movies or Frontiers's vocal tracks (because of Kellen Quinn), it also goes back to my previous point with people liking the mischaracterised versions of the characters better

The big two Sonic content coming out this year are Sonic x Shadow Generations and Sonic Movie 3, which has a lot of people hyped because of Shadow the Hedgehog, but it also goes back to my previous point of people pretending to like Sonic, Shadow was heavily disliked by critics and the general audience for being a "edgelord" and looking like a Deviantart OC, so why are people switching up now?

Also from a majority of reactions I've seen, they'll say shit like "Shadow has always been my favorite character" but they don't even know his backstory and when see Black Doom, Maria or Gerald, they go "Who is this!?" (Or make an obnoxious Snapcube joke), I've even seen people ask for Silver, who is a character who was more hated than Shadow and know less about, I doubt they even know he's from the future

All this shit makes me scared that by the time both of these come out, that I'm gonna have to gatekeep the fuck out of this franchise, which is something don't wanna have to do, I just wanna live in a world where the franchise isn't a laughing stock and people actually the franchise unironically

[eshithepetty]

don't feel the need to reply to this but THANK YOU so much for your ritsu meta, i always love reading when you post and even if i don't always agree 100% you have such amazing and insightful meta about mp100, especially ritsu. like ritsu as a character resonated with me SO MUCH and i could see myself in him and i actually like that he snapped because of all the pressure and loneliness he was under, because it felt so realistic to me. and i really do think that even if it's lighthearted, the fandom DOES mischaracterize him a lot and that he's not just emo or angsty or violent, and it's really depressing to see people depict ritsu as like... depressed, jealous, making stupid decisions, mean, etc ALL the time. it honestly gets super frustrating... i guess i just want to say that i really appreciate when people do take the time to analyze his character and see his good traits, and that i am really grateful to you for like, continuing to treat every mp100 character with respect

Yesss,,, you're so right anon actually. Every character in mp100 gets flanderized by the fandom from time to time, that will just happen with fandoms, and with mp100 it's an especially easy issue to fall into because... like. As that one post by scribe said, mp100's characters work on contradictions, and people aren't usually well versed in working with that. but with Ritsu, it does seem to paint him in a rather negative light, huh? Those aspects of his character do exist, but it does get frustrating when, as I've said before, they're the only ones people focus on to a surface level. I'm not gonna be the most coherent rn cause I hadn't been able to sleep all night (not related to anything, my sleep schedule's just fucked lmao), but I really feel you anon on that. I see a lot of myself and my sibling in Ritsu (and Mob), and so I guess that's why it sometimes hurts for me too - to see people dismissing him as just 'angry' and 'irrational', to see his struggles boiled down to him just being dramatic. I'm not gonna get into it, and I'm aware this is my own personal baggage to work through, but yeah.

I will say, though, I find the comments about how silly it is for Ritsu to be angsting over people 'complimenting him' especially funny 😭 bro you dont even know how much people lauding you over your sibling while you both are actually in extreme distress and can't actually communicate enough to help each other can fuck you up lmao

Anyways!!! Thank you for that last comment as well <33 I'm not a very funny person, or a very active part of the fandom, or someone who does well in forging connections and being entertaining, but I do try my best to always understand these characters and express how I feel about them. That's my way of having fun with shows ig, I really like diving deep into these things and having discussions with people and losing my mind over little funny guys (my friends on discord will be able to attest to this, based on how many inane rambles they've been subjected to. Hi Kegan and Saj if u happen to read this hdhsjhehe) So thank you for sending this ask as well, and allowing me to talk some more :)

I should be preparing for school now, though, so I'll end it here. Hope you have a good day/night anon, as well as everyone else reading this <3

[pinkpruneclodwolf]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA HXH my beloved its been so long also yeah I can def agree w you. I kind of think that maybe the so called "reset" between the group will take place somewhere in malleus's chapter but I lean towards malleus's since I feel like his story would be similiar to kalim's and jamil's in the sense that you put down your lenses of seeing those closest to you in some sort of pedestal to see who they truly are and grow together from that, since chapter 5 seems to be all about character/individual growth--I also feel like idia and yuu and grim and ortho have some sort of parallel/foil to one another but i'm getting ahead of myself so we shall just see

Or maybe it could even be after OB grim's or during it but that'd be sad since its heavily implied that the chap OB! Grim takes place in is the final chapter of the main story so-- *sobbing crying wailing*

anyways I can't wait to see what kind of stunt yana will do with the Adeuce+Ramshackle duo since its heavily implied that they're the main players of the story (w Yuu being the one to beat Grim, Grim being the antagonist and Adeuce being Yuu's trump cards) What about your thoughts?

MEGA BRAIN

MEGA BRAIN

MEGA BRAIN

Yuu and Grim being foils for Idia and Ortho just give me soo much life— there's a theory that Ortho OB, and despite the OB boys being alive its stated that the magician usually dies during the process or loses their mind leaving only the phantom.

Ortho died and Idia put him back together—we see the potential for Grim to OB too but there's also a theory that Yuu and Grim OB TOGETHER because the prologue Grim has hands—

I honestly believe that Chap 7 will focus on Sebek and Silver because they are the most ride or die for Malleus with Silver being more laid back.

Rook will have to wait because Sebek's name needs to be cleared.

No bc Sebek's whole life seems to center around Malleus (which leads to mischaracterization) and he only mentions his family in passing—like his father is active in his life and yet he still rags on humans like???? Huh????

Idk why but I heavily believe in Grim OB when he discovers that Yuu will leave and consumes Yuu as a result—his excessive hunger is def a red flag.

I kinda hope that the story continues even after Yuu leaves, the reset could start without Yuu.

However,,,,,,, Ace and Deuce realization that Yuu is closer to finding a way home in Chap 7 could lead to a whole arc in itself— Chap 7 could focus on everyone's slow mourning and Malleus being unable to cope with losing a friend which leads to OB.

Sebek will have to address what it means to be loyal.

Silver might even develop as a result.

I also don't think Chap 5 was handled well by the fandom because the portrayl of feminine coded characters leads to.... UGHHH I'm so frustrated still frustrated with the way people potray Vil.

Just a whole lotta Epel apologists missing the point of what Vil means—

I am not gonna think about it because it'll bleed into a whole ass thing and thats not what this ask is about.

I agree with you on Chap 5 focusing on the characters more and how they've developed, I'm hoping to see Chap 7 pick up on how the cast will cope with Yuu leaving.

I think Chap 6 is more of a test of how far the OB boys have developed since their overblots and whether they'd snap again— basically a deconstruction.

So I can def see Adeuce being the ones to rally the cast up to defeat an OB!Grim and Yuu as a show of how far they've come.

[bigskydreaming]

That post about "I'll keep reading a fic that mischaracterizes Dick even if it angers me because the plot is interesting" but with Scott McCall. I'll come across genuinely interesting concepts and plots and power through for that even when Scott is portrayed negatively in the story, he's there at least and it's either that or wading through 99% of fic which centers Stiles/Sterek and the most common Scott tag being "Scott's a bad friend" ya know?

Honestly, what is it about Scott McCall and Dick Grayson that gets them (mis)treated so similarly by their respective fandoms?

Oh yeah, definitely. Tbh, part of why I’m so loud and obnoxious in Batfandom is because in TW fandom it eventually got to the point where I just had to stop reading fic completely, because I wasn’t finding anything that was Scott-friendly outside of the handful of writers I was already friends with and I just got fed up. And I’m too stubborn to do the same thing twice in two separate fandoms so I just....refuse to give up on DG fic by way of a rousing morning “Not today Satan” pep talk. fhslakhfkal

But honestly, the parallels, there are more than a few:

1) Obviously I do think the racism element has plenty to do with it. Especially in the way “is Scott really even Latino on the show though, I mean did they ever actually SAY it” arguments could be swapped out almost word for word with the “is Dick really even Romani in the comics though, I mean it was just a retcon” arguments. With the primary aim of arguments against this being a factor focusing on just invalidating the idea that either are characters of color in the first place, rather than examining the way people engage with these characters for signs of racism. Instead of trying to refute that there’s anything wrong with certain ways people interact with these characters, people jump right into “well there can’t be racism if the character in question isn’t even REALLY a character of color, y’know not like, a board-certified one with proper accreditation and everything.”

But its definitely interesting when you look at how Dick Grayson’s been perceived by fandom overall, like, in terms of looking back over the years. As someone who’s been in and out of DC fandoms to various degrees since the late 90s, as in before Dick was retconned as being Romani in the first place, and as I’ve said before, he used to be a LOT more popular and forgiven for stuff in the past in fandom.....like, I maintain that if you look back at the early 2000s-2010, aka when that retcon was not just written, but gradually and more fully spread into the fandom’s overall awareness and perception of the character....you can almost like, SEE the empathy gap suddenly click into place once he was more fully solidified as a character of color in a lot of fans’ minds. Even if they won’t admit it because that would require admitting to the racism that then began to seep into how they interacted with this character now, compared to how they’d interacted with this character in the past.

And I think the empathy gap - and the complete refusal to admit that’s even a thing, because its not like these are REALLY characters of color so why would it even apply - like, I think that goes a long way to explaining the way both Scott and Dick consistently have their traumas invalidated and ignored by large parts of their fandoms, with the focus always being shifted to how bad things that happen to them are really MORE bad for how they affect the people around them, etc.

2) It also I think has a lot to do with their personalities and the archetypes they both embody as empathetic caregiver types. I think I described it pretty well here in my BUABS fic:

“What do you know about Impostor Syndrome?"

"It's a term sometimes used to describe over-achievers who have trouble internalizing their accomplishments. Perfectionists who think they're frauds because they don't know how to take credit for their own achievements and say its because of luck or timing or something other people did," Dick frowned, puzzling through both the question and the aim of it. He raised an eyebrow. "Doesn't sound like something that applies to someone as arrogant as me."

"Don't be a little shit, Dick," Dinah said with small smirk. "And you're right, I don't think any of that applies to you. However, it's also used in another capacity, to describe trauma survivors who are unable to internalize their own trauma. Who deflect from it, or mitigate it, treat it as less than it is on the basis that it wasn't as bad as what's happened to someone else. It's especially common in trauma survivors who are noted for being especially empathetic or who have caregiver personality types. People who are so used to self-identifying as someone whose role or purpose is in helping others, that they find themselves unable to identify as traumatized because it might shift the focus to themselves instead of people they feel need it more. Does that behavior sound a little more familiar?"

(For the record, that fic is set in the YJ universe, not the comics, and I go with the approach that Dick and Bruce have a much better relationship there than they do in the comics, and thus overall Dick’s mental health and self-esteem are better than in the comics, generally speaking. I only mention this as a tangent, but like....I think Impostor Syndrome as an issue for perfectionists and over-achievers with low self-esteem DOES pertain to comic book Dick Grayson as well as its trauma interpretation. But anyway).

But point is, I think that describes both Dick and Scott, and their respective approaches to dealing (or not dealing) with their personal traumas. This isn’t a problem in and of itself, as its a valid survivor reaction and issue plenty of people deal with....the problem lies in the willingness of fans to capitalize on the OPPORTUNITIES this presents, as fans of other characters, to keep the focus trained on the characters around these two, and THEIR issues, even at the expense of these two.

Basically, its not in either of their natures to ASK for help and forcefully DRAG focus and awareness to themselves and their issues, for a number of reasons including the fact that I don’t think either character feels they ‘deserve’ that focus or need that help more than other people need theirs. 

And because these characters are the empathetic caregiver archetypes in their respective ensembles, ie the ones who usually take the lead in reaching out to even characters who don’t normally ask for help themselves....there’s often no one else immediately popping up in reader awareness as like, a likely candidate to extend that same awareness and offer of aid to Dick and Scott even without them actually asking for it.

(Which, is a large part of my commitment to the theme “Stop assembling your ensembles with just ONE of each archetype, mix and match more, or like....use more hybrid archetypes so you don’t HAVE this problem, and also, stop limiting characters to JUST their archetypes, three-dimensional people aren’t confined to only acting upon a limited menu of actions and impulses, and neither should three-dimensional characters be.”)

And then of course there’s the additional component, linked to point #1, that a lot of people refuse to write other characters seeing their need for help or support or offering it even when they do see it, simply because like....they don’t WANT these characters to HAVE help or support.

3) The Intelligence Factor - as in, do they really have it? Both Scott McCall and Dick Grayson are repeatedly and consistently established in their respective canons as being extremely intelligent, and no, not JUST in emotional intelligence. I don’t like sounding like I’m undervaluing that particular form of intelligence, I’m just really irritated by the way people go about saying “oh I do admit they have very high emotional intelligence” like they’re throwing them some kind of a bone. LMAO. No. They both have high emotional intelligence, true, but they’re also extremely intelligent across the board in all other ways. Both are excellent strategists, quick-thinking and repeatedly out-maneuvering even other noted strategists, both display a quick grasp of new information and an ability to see how and where and when to PUT that information to use in practical applications, etc. These are not dumb characters, at ALL.

But fandoms have this weird committment to the idea that only the Smartest Person In The Room REALLY matters, and like, there can only be one of those per room, or like, at most two, so that they can be a matched pair and make kissing noises and then very smart babies, or like, they can be the doting (smart) father and his adored (smartest) son, all others can go home now.

Like, no, that’s not how that works. A room full of geniuses does not suddenly become a room full of ONE genius and a bunch of random and irrelevant cuz they’re dumb non-geniuses the second someone deemed King of the Smarties enters the room. That’s not a thing. Stop acting like that’s a thing, fandoms. Nobody’s intelligence is actually threatened by the presence of more than one character with notable intelligence. Also fuck off with the adoration of notable intelligence like people have more value the more decimal points of pi they can recite off the top of their head. That’s not a more evolved human being, that’s just a nerd. Nerds have value but no more than people who like, chose other life pursuits aside from nerddom.

(Not actually intended as a slight against nerds, just for the record. I say that as both a self-described nerd and also a self-loathing nerd and also lol I’m not a nerd. Look, I’m a very nuanced person okay. I put the complex in complex organism).

But the point here is not just that people are weird about there only being one true genius allowed per ensemble, its that people are WEIRD about how in order to ACTUALLY be smart, you need to like.....accurately match the factory specs for “this is how a smart person looks and behaves.”

And Scott and Dick do not look and behave that way. The sheer number of times - and similar ways - people try to completely discredit the idea they have more than one brain cell by pointing to times they’re being INTENTIONALLY goofy and being like “oh yeah, would a smart person do THAT, hmmmm”.....

Its like...yes? LOL. There is no law that says that a smart person can not be a goofball, or that they are no longer smart if they fulfill a certain quota of actions deemed ‘dopey’ by the official arbiters of smartness.

Similarly the way people like to point at stuff like “my mom buys the groceries” when the writers BEHIND the characters were intentionally trying to play up a comedic moment rather than make a sealed declaration of IQ, and be like, “see, would a smart person be THAT dumb, hmmm?”

First of all, yes, even going off the same canon people try and cite as proof Scott and Dick are too dumb to actually be smart.....you can literally find similarly ‘dumb’ moments for every other TW character....the Sheriff expressed incredulity that Stiles didn’t know what a pendant was, and Lydia was like wtf how are you this dumb at Stiles when he asked if she read the movie the Little Mermaid because he didn’t know there was also a book.....Allison made the same mistake about bestiary as Scott did because the writers were so impressed by that joke they literally had to do it twice....and do not get me STARTED on the number of moments I can point to in comics AND movies AND cartoons where everyone from Bruce to Tim to Jason to Damian and more, like, make utter bonehead moves or utter completely bonehead sentences.

Despite what rumors of my being an ancient eldritch being might have some believe, I did not actually know Albert Einstein personally, but I can still with complete confidence say I GUARANTEE that at more than one point in his life, even he did things that might have been pointed at by time-travelers on vacay as evidence that geez, old-timey smart people were really dumb, huh.

And I think we would all agree that Albert Einstein was actually a very smart man.

But yeah, point is, both Scott and Dick are very smart characters who for a lot of reasons - including personal choice, as in, they don’t really see the appeal in conforming to standards of what a smart person is SUPPOSED to be like (especially when those standards have a weird amount in common with tendencies often described as elitist or condescending or like, having or pertaining to the qualities of an asshole) - like, they just don’t typically behave or conduct themselves in ways that match up with a lot of the assumptions people have for what ‘makes’ a genius or what that’s supposed to look or sound like.

And because they don’t SEEM like they’re that smart, a lot of effort then gets put into insisting that they’re definitely not, and they can’t be, because see look how dumb here and here and here.....which then leeches over into other aspects of the characters and their stories and dynamics, and then combines with the issues resulting from Point 1 and Point 2 and probably two more I’m not thinking of at the moment but are definitely there so that by their powers combined.....fandom summons Captain Dumbass to take over most interactions with these particular characters. And thus repeatedly and insistently engages with these two and their stories only in very dumb, very limited, and VERY annoying ways.

[chokkito]

God as someone who is a fan of ganji since 2020 i NEED to add to it

SPOILERS FOR SOME INFORMATION ABOUT LEAKED CONTENT!!!

Another thing that i genuinely hate about this letter that is also related to what OP said is that, alongside the clear mischaracterization of ALL the characters in it, this letter simply does not read as an actual birthday letter, and this is a trend that has been going with Ganji since he was released

Birthday letters are supposed to be not only a "gift" for the fans of the character, but also a way for us to understand more about them and how they acted during their manor game, but this is two things we NEVER gotten from Ganji's letter.

The first is more obvious: since Ganji's release, we NEVER got a letter that felt satisfying, all of his letters + letters from the other 3 in the group never actually talked about him, and, when they did, he was always painted in a bad light, he was called aggressive, dangerous, loud and so much more, and this last letter is just a culmination of this mistreatment of Ganji that netease has been doing for so long. Again, i LOVE Ganji, he has been my favorite character since his release back in 2020, and i HATE how we cannot even expect good things in his birthday, because we all know we will be waiting 1 year just to receive no information about him or just read something bad about him (from another person's perspective!!!! Yknow because we CANNOT actually focus on him and let him write his own birthday letter on HIS birthday!!!!)

Second, all of his letters FAIL at showing us more about him in his manor game, throughout the 3 years (almost 4) that Ganji has been in the game, the only info we got of him in the game was:

He had a lot of panic attacks due to his trauma

He got killed by Aesop (and later we knew Anne was on it too)

He was seen as aggressive for having reactions due to trauma

He has an accent (why is this so mentioned.)

THREE of these things are completely USELESS, like yeah! Of course he reacted upon remembering his trauma! And of course he had an accent! Like this is not something they needed to talk about in more than 1 letter, but they seem to only talk about it. Like i'm sorry but i dont give a FUCK about what other characters thought about him anymore, i want to know what Ganji thought about them, what were his plans, what he thought of the game and so on, but we NEVER get that, its as if he's a background character in his own letters.

Also i'm sorry but how did Ganji - the person who has been described as heroic and altruist - NEVER DID ANYTHING IN THE MANOR GAME??? Why do the letters make him seem so weak, why is it so easy for people to go agaisnt him when he never did anything agaisnt them, why is Ganji never shown to do something - you know - HEROIC!?!?!!?!?!? All these letters just use Ganji as the victim of the other participant's anger and violence and do not even let him react to it.

And yes, i am putting both Aesop and Victor in this group of people who were violent to Ganji, because, while i know some people (not OP) were theorizing that "they put him in the dark room to not let him get triggered by lights" i think this is completely dumb. Like, i'm sorry, but both Victor and Aesop are not morons, if they were actually trying to help him, they would not LOCK HIM UP for god knows how long???? (I dont remember if the letter mentioned how long it was and im honestly not going to read it again)

This letter completely ruined everything game 3 had going on for it, and i am focusing only in Ganji's part in this whole mess, if i were to talk more about OP's points about both Anne and Victor (which are correct btw) i would spend some good 20 other lines just about it.

Like why is Anne suddenly being fully racist towards Ganji even if in the first letters she seemed simpathetic towards him and said they were similar. Why is Victor suddenly useless. Why is Aesop suddenly ok with locking up a person in a dark room if his whole ordeal is making people go with peace. Wh. Why are netease writers like that.

I saw some people in ttk and twt saying that people were overreacting with this letter, and i am probably too but i simply don't care, for these past 4 years netease has been misusing and mistreating its POC characters and Ganji's letter is a slap in the face of everyone who is a POC and/or a fan of Ganji/game 3.

Im genuinely wishing this leak is fake or a mistranslation, because if it real GOD.

Ganjis 3rd year birthday letter and the heavy mischaracterization of the characters in game 3/just ranting about the birthday letter

(⚠️⚠️‼️THIS POST WILL BE DISCUSSING LEAKS/SLIGHT SPOILERS FOR GAME 3 OF IDV!! IF YOU DONT WANT TO BE SPOILED ON GANJIS 3RD YEAR LETTER OR GAME 3, SCROLL AWAY PLEASE! AND ALSO KEEP IN MIND, I AM NOT A GAME 3 EXPERT! IF I GET ANYTHING WRONG FEEL FREE TO CORRECT ME!!‼️⚠️⚠️)

Ganjis 3rd year letter was leaked recently (you can probably find post about it on tiktok and on discord servers) and I am so far beyond unimpressed and disappointed.

To start out this yap session/rant, I’m going to list the characters serial numbers, so that you can know who I will be talking about so that you can get a grip on what I will be discussing.

• 3-1-2 is anne

• 3-?-1 is aesop

• 3-1-4 is ganji

• 3-?-3 is Victor

The fact that netease decided to fill the letter with shock value racism, ruin annie as a character, and just ruined Ganjis character arc, and basically made Victor useless is so BEYOND me. This is a a lot, so I wanna start by talking about the blatant mischaracterization of annie and ganji in this letter.

To start off, they made annie so unnecessarily, hateful and racist towards ganji. It would make sense for annie to be afraid of loud noises, as they did introduce her as a timid woman, but making her afraid of ganji and becoming violent to him because of his accent is so beyond me. The whole reason why annie attacked ganji was originally because aesop manipulated annie into hurting him, not that annie got scared of the way he spoke? Plus, due to her timid and sweet girl type personality i could never see annie physically fighting/attacking ganji, it’s just not something that would happen. How could she ever have the confidence to do that, when she was literally scared of ganji? Then, on top of that, annie wouldn’t be provoked by his accent so easy? In her trailer, she was literally described to be like her mother, who was very nice, that being a trait annie had. So for her to just go attacking him so so EXTREMELY out of character for her.

Then, next screenshot I’m showing right now is the shock value racism randomly put in this for god who knows why?

“unfavorable impression” caused by 3-1-4’s accent? This is so ooc for annie, it feels like a poorly written oc/au. The antagonization of annie feels so unnecessary and just not needed. Game 3 might not have had a Hunter, but it did have an antagonist, that being aesop. The whole antagonization doesn’t feel right for her at all.

Then now, I wanna talk about Victor. One of the main things in game 3 is that they were not able to talk or communicate with each other. if they were able to do that, what’s the point of him even being here if they could already speak verbally? His writing was already kinda not the best, but this entire letter takes whatever relevance he had to the plot away. He needs to get something consistent, or else in this case his character is just useless. It’s completely unfair that aesop is able to get clear motivations and goals, but the other characters goals and aspirations just get handled horribly.

Game 3 was so unique in the way it functioned, and with the characters that were so similar, but so different at the same time. What could have been a group of compelling a deeply well written characters now feel like a dumpster fire or mischaracterization and the severe lack of coherence. All just from one letter too. This feels like a big fat slap in the face for me as someone who loved game 3, and all of the characters for game 3, ESPECIALLY annie, and if you loved game three, also this should feel like a slap in the face for you too.

**im aware that this is a leak, and it could be potentially false, but this has been on my mind practically ever since I heard of it, and everything is just so absurd.**

[do-you-have-a-flag]

most LGBT/non-white fans aren't happy with how there was still no LGBT representation canonically and how they reduced poe to stereotypical latino tropes, made finn's arc the same as tfa basically (and sidelined him in for adam driver which is just racism lmao) and how underused and underwritten a lot of the characters were/how they mischracterized rey/how they REALLY mischaracterized luke and like the overall pacing was p bad, so white ppl liked it and dumbass kylo stans did too but that it

first off, why u anon, i’m not mean to people who message me generally and i won’t send followers after you because that’s a shitty thing to do, now i have to make a big long response publicly instead of using the messenger app, sorry everyone, long post incoming:I WANT LGBT representation to be canon in star wars but i know that they’re not gonna do it and it’s frustrating but not unexpected. Big budget genre FILMS (tv is different) are so lacking in LGBT content, it’s frustrating that off the top of my head the only example i can think of where it’s not sub-textualised via aliens is Sulu in the Star Trek reboot universe.

but let’s look honestly at how the people who run star wars and the actors responded to questions about LGBT content in interviews: there is spoilers blackout aversion, and actors explicitly supporting fans for their interpretations of characters but at no point was there a promise to show that sort of representation.

Disney has shown before that if they’re going to include LGBT content in their big films they do address it directly, much was made of Lefou in beauty and the beast and there was backlash because the actual content was so minor and still fairly subtextual. 

With the Last Jedi no promises were maid so not getting LGBT content is frustrating for me and others but I can’t fault the film for it only the creators and a criticism of studios and directors and writers does not mean the movie itself is flawed for that specific reason. At least in my view. It’s blaming an absence of a feature that was never promised. would it be better with that feature? YES! but i also think it would have been better for various writing changes but the writing choices that were made are what we have to assess it on.

As to Poe being stereotypically Latino, I don’t live in a country with enough of a latino population to have much insight on that but I will say that I don’t understand this argument. 

my PERSONAL view of Poe in this film is that last time we didn’t get any depth to his character outside of friendly heroic pilot, this time we are starting to be introduced to his flaws, that being his inability to see the big picture, he always makes good strategies and plans and is a great leader and has a sense of humour, these are good qualities, and when he is called impulsive it’s by generals who have the experience to think about the bigger picture where he goes for the most damage on a small scale, Poe has a very complimentary arc to Fin in that they both have to shift their thinking when the resistance is weakened because saving people becomes more important than always beating the bad guys.

so from that understanding of his character I don’t understand what stereotypes are being used here? genuinely please let me know because is it that he’s “hot-headed”? it’s a war and they are losing and because of that he makes the wrong decision and lashes out when he is restricted and believes his superior is making the wrong choice so all the “hot-headed” stuff is really just character complexity and his prominence in the plot is the reason why it’s only applied to him. IDK what other stereotypes there are i legit haven’t seen that criticism actually explained in detail yet so if any latinx fans can let me know i’d be glad

Fin’s arc isn’t the same, yes he’s been sidelined and its annoying because I hate the thing they sidelined him for too but when we do focus on his character they evolve his problems from TFA: running away out of fear and self loathing becomes running from one responsibility because he believes they’re a lost cause in the moment and wants to protect Rey, which becomes planning to sacrifice himself to lash out at first order  in a way that mirror’s Poe’s journey because they both have to think better than that about who they’re fighting for. 

There are so many characters to juggle in the film and by partnering Finn up with Rose they do detract from his character development but only to allow her to help him and introduce her to the stage at the same time as moving the plot along and setting up things for the next movie thematically.  Finn was underserved but it was due to a writing puzzle of balancing an ensemble cast and ultimately at this point his story is supportive of the main plot but not directly a part of it and they could have done that differently but again that’s a writing flaw but not what I would call the worst part of the film i think people took it too hard and would like to hear a response to my reading of Finn’s place in the story in some detail too.

 Also I love Rose and her dynamic with Finn was my fav and desperately needed because they keep having Finn Poe and Rey be separated in these films and we needed that friendly banter and mutual support space filled and Rose is honestly the heart and soul of the resistance even if the casino sequence was written in a very on the nose blatant way these films are for a very broad audience and some people need that stuff spelled out for them. (i’ve seen TLJ twice and both times i think most people in the audience missed the kid using the force at the end which i thought was wonderfully subtle before his posing became blatant visually with the broom)

underuse and underwriting are both side effects of the ensemble cast and i’m willing to forgive the clumsiness of it generally but you’re correct about Rey’s writing, I’ve said it before but everything about her and kylo and snoke and Luke contained in the scenes between the second force skype conversation and Kylo waking up on the floor is the characters making bad choices, that’s why it feels out of character. the rest of the film even when characters make mistakes everyone is behaving consistently and there’s a balance but in that entire segment of the film all four characters make the wrong decisions. the results of these scenes afterwards is fine but i wish they hadn’t decided to have rey trust kylo so readily, considering her character history as a scavenger you know she’d be more skeptical than that.  And with Luke his reticence to tell her the truth is frustrating because that’s what happened to him regarding his father and he should know better, I think the moment of weakness misread as utter betrayal was interesting, not a great choice on the writing side but i’m willing to deal with it. outside of those scenes though it’s like the competent writing suddenly returned! 

Bad pacing? yeah, but it’s the middle film in a trilogy there was a lot of ground to cover.

also listen there’s nothing wrong with being a fan of villians in a work of fiction and personally i loved watching hux suffer and kylo get the door slammed in his face and just because i find his character entertaining doesn’t mean i wanted the rey/kylo romance teasing that happened. I have to accept that the writers are going for redemption arc stuff here but honestly give me complex pathetic villain who dies dramatically at the end and i’ll be happy, 

I wrote out all these paragraphs because you made a whoooole lot of generalisations and i wanted to respond with personal thoughts and specificity,\

 I can’t speak for groups i’m not a part of but i can give my personal reasons for liking the film. at the end of the day it’s not the worst star wars film and of my expectations of the franchise some flaws are a part of it. I LIKE goofiness intentional or not in my genre fiction.

 Representation-wise the LGBT stuff would have been wonderfull but as of right now it wasn’t something i felt should be expected but instead it is something I think should be pressured onto the creators to include canonically because there’s literally no reason not to include it that isn’t getting money from garbage people who hate diversity. 

On a casting level i love the inclusivity of race in the cast, not just with Finn, Poe, and Rose being the majority of our new young heroes, but also of background characters because that sort of understated representation is important too. Do i think the writing could be better? sure, but as far as stereotyping goes i don’t believe there’s deliberate and malicious intent there, any flaws are unintentional on the writers side and their personal biases, but personally I still don’t see the specific problem you’re citing here and would like to hear more about it because I don’t get it.

also pls chill with the “white people and kylo stans” attitude here because i get why people don’t like adam driver, but you’re being deliberately escalating in your language and i’m not okay with that, it’s a false equivalence of the concepts of white complacency when it comes to representation with….. people who like the main villain. 

He’s the main bad guy. he’s played by an actor cast with his looks in mind because he’s one of the few villains who doesn’t spend the whole film behind a mask or with cgi or makeup effects obscuring him, he’s placed in a position of power and given sympathetic elements because a complex villain is more interesting than, oh, say, every simple evil marvel villain who wants to destroy the earth (and I say that as someone who likes marvel films) they knew they couldn’t recapture the appeal of darth vader so they aimed for audience enjoyment in a different way and it worked and it’s pointless to be mad at fans of star wars for liking it’s main villain?

 I’m not saying fans who take it too far by going “he did nothing wrong”/”his victimisation excuses his actions” or who woobie-fy him or who shit on other characters are in the right here, they’re not, and it is frustrating when there’s so many good characters that others lose screen time and complexity to focus on him when he’s a shitty fascist who wants power for himself. 

just like, de-escalate your aggression here because i’m talkative as hell and I also want better representation but I’m also one hundo percent about viewing media and people complexly and in terms of the fiction i thought it was a good film and in terms of the choices by the creators in how they crafted that film i thought they did okay but could have done waaay better and that’s what fans want. 

i’m not gonna speak for most LGBT/non white fans because I’m only a part of one of those categories personally but i’m SURE a chunk of the audience responses in those reviews trashing the movie are from straight white cis dudes who are mad about all the POC in the film or goofy writing choices they feel undermines their view of the movie and they’re objectively wrong about a lot of things but their opinions are still added to that review percentage and the only way to know who thought what from what background and coming from what perspective is to go through every review and make a chart and that sort of research isn’t something i’ve done and you probably haven’t done it either so we can only speak from our view from discussing with friends and online and on tumblr i have seen some lgbt and poc  responses and most of them are positive, a couple of people aren’t and that’s only my dashboard but i can’t assume it represents the communities as a whole

so anyone seeing this long ass post who hasn’t unfollowed me: what’s your opinion?

[cutepresea]

4-4 A Light That Pierces the Clouds: A World Without Sunshine

Sorry again for the spam.

If you want to blacklist these, you can use either the tag #a light that pierces the clouds for just this event, or #xdu event scripts or #xdu scripts

Reminder that these are copied straight from XD Unlimited itself, so any grammatical weirdness, mistranslations, and/or mischaracterizations are not my doing.

Genjuro Kazanari: "Well? Did you get anything out of Hibiki-kun?"

Maria: "No, nothing."

Maria: "We tried to get in contact several more times, but she barely spared a word for us."

Maria: "We can't have a conversation, let alone ask questions. I'm honestly not sure what to do."

Chris Yukine: "Seriously, what's her deal? Is she really the same person?"

Genjuro Kazanari: "I'm sorry."

Chris Yukine: "Nah, you don't gotta apologize, old man."

Maria: "I don't suppose you know why she might be acting this stubborn?"

Genjuro Kazanari: "Well..."

Maria: "If there's anything you know, would you mind telling us?"

Genjuro Kazanari: "......"

Maria: "I realize it may be difficult to talk about, but we need all the help we can get at this point."

Maria: "If we can't get her to talk to us, then we're at a complete impasse."

Genjuro Kazanari: "All right. I'll tell you all I'm authorized to."

Chris Yukine: "So you do know something then."

Genjuro Kazanari: "She has a troubled past. She hasn't been willing to trust anyone after what she went through."

Genjuro Kazanari: "We tried to reach out and support her several times, but unfortunately, she wouldn't hear us out."

Genjuro Kazanari: "Whether fighting Noise is a hobby or a mission for her, I can't say, but she always shows up to fight."

Maria: "You mentioned a troubled past?"

Genjuro Kazanari: "She survived a certain incident..."

Maria: "You mean the Zwei Wing concert? When the Noise attacked during Tsubasa and Kanade Amo's performance?"

Genjuro Kazanari: "So you've heard of it. That'll make this simpler then."

Genjuro Kazanari: "She was subjected to baseless slander and blame by the victims' families because of the fact she survived."

Genjuro Kazanari: "She had nobody but her own family. And yet, she was even mistreated by the one place she could call home."

Genjuro Kazanari: "That must have hurt her in ways I can't imagine. But since we weren't involved, we'll never really know."

Chris Yukine: "Whoa. Back up real quick, old man."

Genjuro Kazanari: "Hm?"

Chris Yukine: "You just said she had nobody but her family. But what about her friend?"

Genjuro Kazanari: "Friend? Who are you talking about?"

Maria: "Miku Kohinata."

Genjuro Kazanari: "Kohinata? Hmm... I heard she didn't have anyone she was close to."

Chris Yukine: "What the?"

Chris Yukine: "What the hell's going on here?"

Maria: "Either way, she's apparently not Hibiki Tachibana's friend here."

Chris Yukine: "Well then where is she? She's always tagging along with that moron."

Maria: "I'm not sure. We can't be sure if she's alive somewhere else or already dead... or whether she even existed."

Chris Yukine: "Hey, don't say creepy stuff like that."

Maria: "At any rate, that's not what's important right now."

Maria: "We at least now have a grasp of Hibiki's situation and background in this world."

Maria: "Moreover, we need her to tell us about the Noise she encountered."

Chris Yukine: "Regardless of how she feels about it?"

Maria: "That's not what I'm saying. But our priorities have shifted a bit."

Chris Yukine: "Rgh! More Noise?!"

Maria: "Maybe she'll come to fight them. It'll be a chance to make contact."

Chris Yukine: "It's not like we could just ignore the Noise, anyway."

Tsubasa Kazanari: "Do you two mind helping me out?"

Maria: "Sure. What's the situation?"

Tsubasa Kazanari: "They're still evacuating the nearby civilians. We can't let the Noise make their way any further into town."

Tsubasa Kazanari: "I really need backup, so it'd be a big help."

Chris Yukine: "Forget backup, it looks like she's come to stick her nose into things."

Tsubasa Kazanari: "Tachibana, huh?"

Hibiki Tachibana: "......"

Sakuya Fujitaka: "Noise signals have gone dark."

Aoi Tomosato: "No serious damage taken by the wielders, either."

Genjuro Kazanari: "Having reinforcements from a parallel world is proving to be a big help."

Genjuro Kazanari: "Too bad we can't ask them to stick around permanently."

Sakuya Fujitaka: "C-Commander! We're getting new Noise signals!"

Aoi Tomosato: "Wait... If the signal is this big--!"

Genjuro Kazanari: "Could it be the thing from the other day?!"

Chris Yukine: "I think that mostly does it."

Maria: "Yes. Now we can finally have some time to talk to her."

Hibiki Tachibana: "......"

Genjuro Kazanari: "Watch out! There's a powerful Noise signal near your position! It's very likely the one from the other day!"

Maria: "Well, looks like we don't need to ask her for details anymore."

Chris Yukine: "Yeah. Guess this thing exists in this world too, huh?"

Tsubasa Kazanari: "What's with that Noise? Why does it look like that?"

Maria: "That's a Karma Noise. It's no ordinary foe, so be on your guard."

Hibiki Tachibana: "......"

Maria: (This signal... It must be the Noise she saw the other day.)

Chris Yukine: "Let's take it down quickly before it gets away!"

Maria: "I'm on it!"

Maria: "It's regenerating again?!"

Chris Yukine: "Dammit! This thing won't let up!"

Hibiki Tachibana: "Rrraaaahhhh!"

Chris Yukine: "You idiot! Don't rush in without thinking!"

Hibiki Tachibana: "Ahhh!"

Hibiki Tachibana: "Huh?!"

Maria: "Yaaaagh!"

Maria: "Whew... I barely made it in time."

Chris Yukine: "Are you all right?!"

Hibiki Tachibana: "Mind your own business!"

Chris Yukine: "What?!"

Hibiki Tachibana: "Everyone looks out for themselves. Nobody ever helps me when I need it."

Chris Yukine: "What are you talking about?"

Maria: "Wait! The Karma Noise just..."

Tsubasa Kazanari: "It vanished."

Maria: "Maybe it's because people were evacuated from the surrounding area?"

Chris Yukine: "Dammit! We were so close, and now we have to start all over again."

Hibiki Tachibana: "Rgh!"

Miku Kohinata: "Nice weather today, huh?"

Hibiki Tachibana: "Yeah. It's a perfect day for ice cream."

Miku Kohinata: (She's looking a little better.)

Hibiki Tachibana: "I wonder what Chris-chan and Maria-san are up to right now."

Miku Kohinata: "You don't need to worry about them. Right now, you just need to focus on yourself, Hibiki."

Hibiki Tachibana: "Haha, sorry, sor-- Ugh!"

Miku Kohinata: "Hibiki?"

Hibiki Tachibana: "Urgh! Ah... Aaaaah!"

Miku Kohinata: "Hibiki?! What's wrong?! Hibiki!"

Hibiki Tachibana: "Miku..."

Miku Kohinata: "Hibiki..."

Hibiki Tachibana: "I'm sorry... I'm putting you through so much stress."

Hibiki Tachibana: "Urgh!"

Miku Kohinata: "Don't push yourself, Hibiki! You shouldn't try to stand up yet."

Miku Kohinata: "Once you're feeling a little better, do you want to head home? Let's just take a moment to rest here, okay?"

Hibiki Tachibana: "Okay..."

Miku Kohinata: (Why is she getting so weak like this?)

Elfnein: "Miku-san, I have some news. Could you come to the control room?"

Miku Kohinata: "Sure."

Miku Kohinata: "Sorry, Hibiki. I'm just going to talk with the others real quick."

Hibiki Tachibana: "......"

Miku Kohinata: "I'll be right back. You just wait here, okay?"

Tsubasa Kazanari: "What's Tachibana's condition?"

Kirika Akatsuki: "How's she doing?!"

Elfnein: "We've run several medical tests over the last few days, but sadly, we still don't know what's causing it."

Miku Kohinata: "......"

Genjuro Kazanari: "Hibiki-kun's state of exhaustion is abnormal. It's safe to say that this probably isn't any normal illness."

Shirabe Tsukuyomi: "Do we have any ideas? Or even a tiny hint?"

Elfnein: "We don't know the cause, but her neural pulse is growing more and more erratic by the day."

Elfnein: "I believe her physical exhaustion is mainly in due to her mental state."

Miku Kohinata: "Her mental state?"

Elfnein: "Yes, that's right."

Elfnein: "You mentioned earlier that Hibiki-san had been having nightmares. Do you know what they were about?"

Miku Kohinata: "Well, I..."

Hibiki Tachibana: "It's a terrible, terrible nightmare."

Hibiki Tachibana: "I'm sealed away in the darkness, and there's nobody else around."

Hibiki Tachibana: "I'm suffering, and yet no one comes to help me."

Hibiki Tachibana: "Nobody to laugh with, no one to take my hand..."

Hibiki Tachibana: "It hurts so, so much deep inside. And at some point, I just started to accept it."

Hibiki Tachibana: "I'm scared."

Genjuro Kazanari: "Hibiki-kun was having nightmares that intense?"

Kirika Akatsuki: "That can't be right!"

Shirabe Tsukuyomi: "Yeah. Hibiki-san has all of our support."

Tsubasa Kazanari: "And yet something's going on. But what could it be?"

Genjuro Kazanari: "Why now?!"

Tsubasa Kazanari: "The Noise may aggravate Tachibana's condition. We're going, you two."

Kirika Akatsuki: "On it!"

Shirabe Tsukuyomi: "We need Hibiki-san to get her proper rest, after all."

Tsubasa Kazanari: "Kohinata, you stick by Tachibana's side."

Miku Kohinata: "Thank you, Tsubasa-san. You be careful too, Shirabe-chan, Kirika-chan."

Miku Kohinata: "Hibiki, I'm back."

Hibiki Tachibana: "Mi... Miku?"

Miku Kohinata: "Are you awake?"

Hibiki Tachibana: "Yeah. I thought I heard the alarm a little while ago."

Miku Kohinata: "It's okay. Tsubasa-san, Shirabe-chan, and Kirika-chan are handling it. You just relax."

Hibiki Tachibana: "i see..."

Hibiki Tachibana: "Ah... I'm hopeless. I want to go out there and fight to hlep people, but in my condition..."

Miku Kohinata: "Look, your mission now is to take it easy and rest. Don't you get any funny ideas."

Hibiki Tachibana: "Take it easy? You mean, just for now, right?"

Miku Kohinata: "Hibiki?"

Hibiki Tachibana: "What's going to happen to me? At this rate--"

Miku Kohinata: "Nothing's going to happen to you. I swear on it... I swear that I'll never let anything happen to you."

Hibiki Tachibana: "Miku..."

Miku Kohinata: "I told you, it'll be fine. Now get some rest."

Hibiki Tachibana: "...Sorry."

Miku Kohinata: (Why...)

Miku Kohinata: (Why does Hibiki have to suffer these awful nightmares?)

Miku Kohinata: (What's making her feel so alone?)

Miku Kohinata: (What can I do to ease her suffering?)

Miku Kohinata: (I don't know... I don't know what to do, Hibiki.)

[your-turn-to-role]

it's funny you mention taliesin specifically in regards to this, because while you're right that he's a very good person, there's two traits that find their way into every single one of his characters - the overwhelming attitude that they're in the right (or if they realise they're not in the right, they don't think twice about doing it anyway), and finding a certain glee in knowing someone's mistakes are going to lead to their downfall, but sitting back and watching it anyway. (literally, all three of them have at some point seen a plan about to go badly wrong, and instead of doing something about it, have said something to the effect of "we're all about to learn a valuable lesson here")

and like, those are very much tal traits too, he's just, been around long enough to learn how to be kind and respectful to other people, but those flaws still come out in every flawed character he writes (and every character he writes is very flawed, but for some reason the fandom kinda has an aversion to seeing them?)

like, tal is very vocal about when his characters fuck up, because of that tendency of the fandom to make taliesin's kid the perfect baby. he was constantly trying to drive home how terrible a person percy was, because everyone just saw the angst and decided to conveniently ignore the irreparable violence percy wrought on the world (or considered it only in how the guilt affected percy). and don't get me wrong i love him too but like, kid fucked up. still has a lot of fucked up traits. gonna take a while to get over that.

it's been a while since i watched episode 18, but as far as i recall when molly was doing the hotel shit, taliesin was apologising out of character? because he knew that's not how you act like a good person, but a part of molly didn't know and a part of him didn't care so he did it

even caduceus has a lot more of that vicious justice and "everything i say is right" streak than most people acknowledge? like he's kind and empathetic and all that but he will let you walk into a trap he knew was there just so you'll know not to do it again, and definitely has a kinda "everyone will come around to my way of thinking eventually" point of view on the group (not me bashing caduceus i love him a lot but also flaws make characters interesting)

but anyway back to molly. a lot of people in the notes are using this as an excuse to hate molly, some people are offering their own elaborations on this which are always an interesting read. i definitely don't think molly is hateworthy because of this (i'll admit, i haven't read a lot of molly fic because of that tendency for him to be overly mischaracterized), because like, it doesn't outweigh the fact that he has plenty of moments of kindness and goodness. people just, in the wake of his death, choose to focus more on the good or what they thought was the good and less on his tendency to ask forgiveness not permission and then decide he doesn't need forgiveness either

and that's fair. everyone's welcome to remember the good (funerals are good for that. remembering molly was dedicated to leaving every town better than he found it is a lot more comforting than remembering his frequent boundary issues, or with vax as well, everyone described him as "the best of us" where i bet very few members of vox machina would have called him that a few months earlier). but also yeah character flaws are interesting and we do a disservice to the complexity of mollymauk when ignoring them (and especially writing him as the dramatic gay flirty archetype when, he's not. elements of it are there, but molly is not charming, and molly rarely resorts to non magical charm because he's not good at it. he's sharp and prickly and WEIRD and he knows it and makes no effort to hide it. too wide smile full of sharp teeth is far more his MO than charming grin)

i think tal put a lot of really interesting things in there, honestly. here's another trait constant across all taliesin characters - some level of naivety towards the world, they haven't experienced it, or experienced it only recently, they're too young mentally for what people expect of a body their age, and they're floundering a little. molly's only two years old, and the entirety of his experience on this planet has been learning that the circus are His Friends, and everyone outside the circus are Not Friends.

he explored the discrimination against tieflings a lot more than jester has - jester doesn't realise it's a thing, and laura doesn't seem interested in exploring it, so matt's mostly dropped any consequences of it, but that was a very central part of molly. you see a lot of people in the first two arcs be outright rude or cruel to him without caring, because he's a tiefling. molly gets instantly protective over jester and speaks up on her behalf in the first arc, because he knows if they can't solve that murder, everyone's going to pin it on the tieflings and call it a day. he's got a very "fine, if you're only gonna see me as a devil, i'll fucking act like one" attitude to a lot of people. when it comes down to it, a lot of molly's character is that he a) learned how to socialise from a bunch of deeply fucked up, damaged people in the circus, and b) has learned from repetitive experience that, up until the m9, the circus are the only people who've ever had his back

the fact that he's still empathetic to everyone in the towns they visit (wanting to be kind to people, leaving gifts) shows how good a person he is on some level, and how much better he had the potential to be. despite the first two years of his life not being at all easy, he still sees the good in everyone and the beauty in everything and he's a very likeable person. but one thing he needed to learn was better self control and respect for people, because when they first met him he was running on the assumption that the circus would forgive him for most things and the people outside of the circus didn't matter, so he didn't need to worry about it. he could learn not to do that. i think he was learning, just didn't have enough time to do so

but yeah i definitely think he's a far more layered character than most of what's left around the fandom these days

so i know molly is the darling of the fandom and this post might make people mad so let me just say first: i absolutely adore him. like i get it. everyone loves him for a reason: he’s super loveable. i just super wish people would explore his serious boundary/consent issues more in fics/meta/literally anywhere.

i’ve seen people talk about how fanon molly is super suave and smooth while canon molly is “a ten charisma character with a twenty charisma attitude”, but i’ve literally never seen anyone talk about this and i think it’s because people are uncomfortable. like it’s an uncomfortable thing, people don’t want to think about their fave being pushy or disrespectful but i think that also disregards his potential for growth.

when molly pinned caleb to the wall, i think most people took that as part of him just being super flirty/maybe being slightly oblivious to caleb’s discomfort. but tal said on talks that molly had noticed that caleb was uncomfortable with touch/people in his space and specifically pinned him as “the gentlest of punishments” because he knew caleb wouldn’t like it.

at some point (i think when beau got tieflinged but i could be wrong), travis asks if fjord would’ve seen molly naked and tal responds definitely; molly was a terrible roommate. in zadash, instead of asking fjord if he minds someone being brought to their room, molly first asks how deep of a sleeper he is, pays for his companionship, and then tells him that he can either “sleep through it or not”. (for context they only rented TWO ROOMS at this point, literally everyone in that room had to go over to the girl’s room, except for caleb who straight up got a new room.)

he often led interrogations with intimidation tactics and actively looked for the most effective way to make people uncomfortable to get what he wanted (even if “what he wanted” was just entertainment. eg blinding the hupperdook kid who made fun of him.)

in the weird theoretical universe where caduceus and molly met, i think cad would’ve definitely had a very stern conversation with him about that/those tendencies.

i think because taliesin is such a kind and respectful person people sort of carry that over when his characters in reality are often not nearly so polite. idk i just never see anyone lean into this aspect of molly’s character and i wish i saw it more.