#-and this other person was the True Irredeemable Villain All Along!''

[neodiekido]

it's really funny how ouma was pretty explicitly written as a morally grey character who often did shitty things for a good reason and was ultimately as much of a victim of the killing game as everyone else

and then the v3 fandom went "ah, so this means ouma actually did Nothing Wrong Ever, and the True Evil Irredeemable Villain was maki or kiibo or kaito or everyone BUT ouma" when a big theme of V3 is about, like, moral grayness and characters doing bad things for good reasons

[altocat]

HAMAGUCHI VALIDATING US AND SAYING HE EMPATHIZED WITH SEPH AND WAS SHOCKED AT HOW MUCH WRITING THE NIBELHEIM IMPACTED HIM AND CONFIRMING THAT THIS WAS A TRAGEDY ALL ALONG

we are so back. we were so right.

It's true! Further proving why Sephiroth is a great villain. Great villains come in a wide variety of shades. But Sephiroth's story is tragic, no doubt on that. I really hope this puts to bed any lingering ideas of Sephiroth being born evil and irredeemable. That's NOT who he was, or what he stood for. To boil him down in such a basic way isn't what the character is about.

We should be able to see ourselves in evil people. It reminds us of what we could become if we don't seek out healthier alternatives, or how certain circumstances can fundamentally warp and alter a person's identity and worldview. It's a cautionary tale, and it allows us to feel compassion, even if we ultimately can't forgive. Empathy isn't weakness. And pitying the monsters holds just as true as ultimately defeating them.

Anyway, I'm being way too mushy about this. Sephiroth is a monster, and his actions should NOT be condoned, supported, or validated. But they can be understood and they can be explored. I just think it makes him way more interesting and compelling, even when there's no redemption waiting for him on the other side.

[davekat-sucks]

Hey thanks for your perspective! I like seeing what other people think of a piece of media I engage with, and I can take in what another person’s perspective can be compared to mine. I always thought it was tough to keep up with HS^2, and before Yiffy it was boring. I read the prologue for HS^2 and it was nice, but ultimately pointless.

You make a good point about Jane, and I gotta describe the surreal decision for how they builded up to Jane’s villain arc.

So there is a series of snapchats from 11/11/2016 to 12/31/16 (I think) showing conversations between Jane and Roxy (calliope is there) discussing the celebration of the return of the gods on Earth C by blowing up the moon. Jane has her transportalizer hijacked by the felt, run by Jack Noir and Jane’s account now gets post updates from felt members. Roxy and Calliope attempt to get help but Jane successfully defends herself against the felt and enslaves Jack Noir with a tiaratop, and then puts Clover in charge of her snapchat account. She escapes before the moon explodes.

So the buildup to Jane being racist was her being kidnapped and then giving her social media to a leprechaun, who worked for the main bad guy of Homestuck who is last seen on his knees with the evil red Betty Crocker thing around his neck.

Yeah I can see why Jane became evil, she was the CEO of a corporation, and running corporations just make you literally irredeemably cruel to everyone. (If you can’t tell I’m being sarcastic)

To give credit to epilogues/postcanon apologists when they argue that the story’s character’s are not acting out of character, just rather changed over time or were always like this, but just didn’t have the unrestricted worship and authority Earth C gave them, they are in a sense, correct.

What postcanon apologists forget to argue is if the execution of this change in character works within the media it is produced under, and I gotta say, an obscure set of snapchat posts released after the credits that were only dug up by fans following the Homestuck Pinterest account which preluded a character’s villain arc by having her kidnapped and unkidnap herself was a poorly executed start to a vaillain arc, maybe they should have done more with the whole Jack possessed by the tiaratop thing and Jane running the most powerful corporation on Earth C, but I don’t write Homestuck.

The tiaratop thing only gets elaborated on in Homestuck^2 later on when in panels you can see tiaratops on Crockercorp soldiers in the April 2020 updates, nearly a whole year after the epilogues dropped. Before that I’d just assumed all the people decided in unity to be racist because Jane said so and most people can’t think for themselves actually, and just believe what a nice looking authority figure says. That last part might be true considering how well James Roach has gotten along with the Homestuck fandom.

So what is the moral of the story to all this? Well being a CEO of a corporation makes you a fascist because being in a position of power makes you think you’re better than everyone else and that they should be sorted into categories you consider lesser and better by your standards.

Sure there is actual human history to the rise of fascism and why some aristocrats and corporate businessmen supported the cause but I ain’t reading all that, my hypothesis is simple to understand and affirms all the premonitions I have about the world around me, so it must be correct!

So basically the Homestuck snapchats predicted Elon Musk buying Twitter and retweeting conspiracy theorist tweets because Elon Musk is the CEO of 5 companies now.

And look out for Disney CEO Bob Iger, he’s making bad and boring Disney movies with minority lead actors ON PURPOSE to radicalize fans of old, better cinematic franchises to bring about the 4th reich!!!

Funny enough, the aim for Jane Crocker being the villain in Homestuck 2 was also to make her an allegory for DONALD TRUMP. Even the bonus story for these random nothingbuger OCs made by WhatPumpkin, were suppose to be people getting BERNIE SANDERS to become President. They even advertise support for Bernie Sanders on the official HOMESTUCK TWITTER ACCOUNT. Of course, Bernie Sanders dropped out of presidential election. HS Twitter had to delete it and WhatPumpkin had to cancel that side story. Needless to say, the force of politics in Homestuck 2 was that bad.

[aviiarie]

-> the character everyone gets wrong

-> worst discord server and why

-> you can't understand why so many people like this thing (characterization, trope, headcanon, etc)

-> common fandom complaint that you're sick of hearing

(ask game!)

the character everyone gets wrong?

i have so many, but i would say any complex character who has complicated motivations/morals/relationships with others. if you have a character with any depth, there's going to be someone out there who simplifies them to their barest form without any nuance. this is ESPECIALLY true for morally-ambigious characters. it's either they're an irredeemable, terrible villain, or they're turned into a uwu soft character who means well and was actually a good person all along.

worst discord server and why?

tbh i'm not in many discord servers except private ones, and all of those are pretty chill so i don't really have much to say for this one.

you can't understand why so many people like this thing (characterization, trope, headcanon, etc)

the habit of some fanfic authors to massively villian-ify one character to serve the story of a sympathetic character. it's so weird to me, especially when that character was never a bad person in canon?? it's just unnecessary character bashing, and making someone into a cartoonishly evil villain for no reason other than for them to be an plot device.

an example is an odd pattern of turning canonically okay parents into abusers, for the sole reason of making the found family look like a better option. i don't understand it?????

common fandom complaint that you're sick of hearing?

this might be a little specific, but i despise when female characters are demonized for actions that a male character would be excused for. talking about people who complain that yosano is sadistic and cruel and so mean and she should die a horrible death... then five minutes later fangirling over dazai who has done MUCH MUCH WORSE. its so hypocritical, the actions are the same whether a pretty anime boy is doing them or not.

my point isn't that all morally-imperfect characters should be hated, no exceptions: i am someone who LIKES interesting villains. i am specifically sick of people complaining about women being morally questionable, when they don't give a fuck if its a man doing the same thing. it's annoying, and so clearly biased.

(similarly, the genshin fandom saying 'we want more morally grey women!' when they couldn't handle arlecchino. the complaints i've seen about her being a bad character when she is a well-written, complex character is insane. you know a character doesn't have to be a good person to be a good character right??? you know that right??????)

[ultraericthered]

It strikes me as a bit unsurprising that this is a take that exists among some FB fans, but at the same time I'm like ".....Wow. Seriously???"

Ren is not only far from "the TRUE villain" of the story, she's barely one of the most major antagonists in it! When she enters the picture in the present day narrative, she's just another antagonistic figure in a story that has Akito, Shigure, Kureno, and the Sohma family servant staff serving antagonistic roles too. The only non-Akito character who Ren antagonizes in Isuzu. In terms of the backstory, Ren can be categorized as one of the story's Greater Scope Villains along with Akira, the Head Maid, and Kyo's Biological Father and also Katsuya but the story unfortunately doesn't frame him that way.

And yes, when it comes to rap sheets of despicable deeds, Ren does not come anywhere even the slightest bit close to how heinous her daughter became. Again, Ren's only known victims are Akito, Isuzu, and some of the servants. Pales in comparison to the whopping list of victims Akito has made. Heck, Ren herself even got victimized by Shigure in his loveless, petty "revenge sex" with her, and we're meant to have some pity for her. Moreover, if Ren was the "true evil" and Akito just a helpless, innocent victim in all this, all of Ren's harsh words to Akito and about Akito would ring hollow and untrue, but ....they really, really don't. A big point of nuance with Ren is how she's like Cassandra of Troy, looked upon others as being a raving madwoman (and tbf, she is), but because she is Akito's mother who never loved her child and also never developed any fear of her, she's the one person who's able to speak the truth about Akito and call the reality around Akito out for what it actually is, to stand up and talk back to Akito in ways the other Sohmas would never dare to. The sole thing she does not get right in all this is that she views herself as blameless even when she's a huge influencing factor for why Akito grew up into the monster she is now. You're right that Akito's loathing of her is laughably ironic, and worse is how their hypocrisy is shared.

I do have to wonder if making Ren conclusively and definitively irredeemable in contrast to Akito despite Akito having done so much worse is something Takaya came to regret, which is why the scene of Ren turning down Akito's attempt to reconcile got omitted from the anime. If Another never gets animated (which I'd rather it not), then it can be left to our imaginations if Ren ever got better or not. But one thing's for sure - Kyo's Bio Daddy will remain the absolute worst.

I know we all agree that Ren is the biggest bitch of all bitches but I’m sooOOO tired of people tooting about how “she’s the true villain” and if I see any more of these when she’s introduced in the anime officially, I’m going to go feral.

People seem to conveniently forget that Ren herself was also horribly mistreated by the Sohma clan, and the clan members actively encouraged the antagonism between her and Akito by using Akito’s position as head of the family and god to further alienate Ren from the clan/Akira, which only fueled Ren’s insecurity and vitriol towards her daughter. Ren projected the abuse she received from the clan onto Akito, who then went on and projected that abuse onto the zodiacs.

And while Ren is horrible in her own right, Akito’s criminal acts of violence and abuse has escalated far beyond anything Ren has ever done, and frankly, it’s disgusting to see so many people continuously use Ren as a scapegoat for Akito’s own individual acts of abuse towards a bunch of innocent people who have nothing to do with either her or Ren. And while Akito does change in the end whereas Ren never does, for the majority of the story, it’s laughably ironic that Akito despises Ren for being awful and horrible only to grow up to be exactly like her but worse.

The whole “Ren is the TRUE villain” is not only wrong because Ren doesn’t actively oppose the main characters, whereas Akito does, but by making Ren out to be the One True Evil, it deprives Akito of the responsibility for her own abusive actions. Not to mention, Ren being the “one true evil” is also wrong because Ren is a product of the abuse she endured from the Sohma family just as much as Akito is a product of Ren’s abuse. Which is important to the greater narrative of systematic family abuse– there is no “one evil”, just a bunch of selfish and narrow minded people congregated in a cult like family.

But as far as Akito is concerned, the culpability of her own crimes lies solely and squarely on her shoulders, and that responsibility is not Ren’s, nor anyone else’s to bear. Akito very much IS the “true villain” of this show, and she always will be. Just because mommy dearest is a bitch doesn’t change the fact that the antagonist is LITERALLY Akito’s role in the story.

[spider-xan]

Honestly, I feel like there would be a lot less frustration with the Coppola film if it was completely irredeemable trash with zero good things going for it bc then we could just write it off as an awful film and laugh at it for what it is - but the fact that there are SO MANY great things about it that are worthy of praise, and we know Coppola generally isn't a bad filmmaker, is what makes it so frustrating, precisely it could have been an amazing high-budget film adaptation that was accurate to the novel and the indisputable definitive version, and then it swerved and made the framing and other choices that it did, with its specific vision superseding the actual text; and ofc there's the title issue of including Bram Stoker's name and implying a faithful adaptation, though I think Coppola tends to do that with straight book adaptations to credit the author, like how The Godfather's full title is actually Mario Puzo's The Godfather.

Like, the casting is amazing! Winona Ryder is perfect as Mina! Anthony Hopkins is inspired casting for Van Helsing! Even Keanu Reeves, with his questionable acting and accent, is at least cute as Jonathan, and his star power at the time makes sense for why he played the role. The costumes designed by Eiko Ishioka are honestly among the greatest film costumes ever, and she rightfully won the Best Costume Design Oscar that year! Love the liminal creepiness of Dracula's castle and how his shadow has a life of its own! Everything about the way the scene of Lucy entering her tomb as a vampire is filmed is sublime - the lighting, the cinematography, the camera angles, the eerily chilling on a visceral level music and sound design, the make up and costume, the way the candles supernaturally light themselves, etc. Quincey is actually included for once! Even some of the epistolary format is retained, with things like the log of the Demeter narrated over scenes on the ship, Mina typing on her typewriter, Jack recording on a phonograph, etc. There are honestly a lot of positive things that can be said about the film, and Coppola does know what he's doing on a technical level, along with the talented cast and crew.

And obviously, no adaptation is going to just copy the text exactly for various reasons, like film being an audio-visual medium with a shorter length than a novel, adaptations being filtered through the lens of their creators and reflective of the social milieu they are being created in, commercial box office considerations bc capitalism, etc., and I think being faithful to the spirit of the source material is more important than textual purity, and a lot of this is going to be subjective on the part of viewers as well. But yeah, it's like, personal preferences aside, the Coppola film just came SO CLOSE to being a film adaptation that's both accurate to the novel and incredible cinema at the same time, but then it made directing and screenwriting choices like Mina just being Dracula's love interest and having none of her heroic moments (all removed or given to the men), everyone being a total asshole, Dracula going back and forth in characterization bc the film can't decide if he's a sympathetic romantic hero who just wants true love or a scary monster villain who wants to take over England and eat people, and you kind of need the latter to drive the plot outside of the romance, etc.

We could have had it all, and that's what is so frustrating to me, along with how the film is so definitive that it gets projected back onto the original novel and just about anything Dracula.

[nagirambles]

Rambling about Fairies - Manga Chapter 159

I think it’s either the translation in the anime or manga that trips me up here, but this line actually surprises me for how cold it is. 

Honestly, I just realized that in Fairy Tail, there isn’t actually a genuine criminal in it. Everyone was a victim of circumstance, and genuine ‘villain-turned friend’ characters are in other guilds. 

Fairy Tail itself doesn’t have a true villain-turned character in it. 

They were all children caught up in tragedies and made awful mistakes. Everyone in Fairy Tail starts in the good alignment and stays there, except Laxus, but I find it hard to call him anything in the evil alignment when Fairy Law explicitly told us he was a good boy all along. 

If there are any characters that are actually ‘evil’ with malicious, truthfully irredeemable intentions, like Lyon in Galuna or Sabertooth in GMG, they’re probably not in the guild anymore. Case in point: Hades, and the TOH trio: Sho, Millianna, Wally, all who were either members or were almost members.

So, it’s kind of ironic that Natsu says “we’re used to committing crime” when members of FT are rambunctious delinquents with godzilla-scale powers at worst. They never destroy things or cause trouble maliciously, they only do it as accidental collateral damage, or the injured were assholes to begin with. 

And as we've seen from Makarov's first speech when Lucy first joined, they are all unapologetic about it, and Makarov literally says 'fuck the council, we are free and proud mages'. So... I find it a bit iffy that Natsu says this here, because they don't feel any guilt for those "crimes" at all. It would be one thing if it was Gray or Erza, who blames themselves and both have severe survivor's guilt from mistakes they actually made. So Natsu doesnt feel like the right person to say that line. He does not consider his wanton destruction a crime.

It would be another thing though, if they weren't talking about crime but rather about regret itself, from being helpless and losing loved ones. Kind of an extension of the "everyone in FT has been hurt" message from Mira at the start of Macao arc.

[sortasirius]

“Unity” and the Broken Boys

BOY Y’ALL BETTER SIT DOWN BECAUSE THIS IS AS LONG AS CAN BE AND I TOOK OFF WORK TOMORROW SO I’VE GOT TIME

This is....one of the best episodes in the show.  Yeah, in all 325 of them, this is hands down one of the best.

First of all, stan Amara for clear skin.

That silent treatment babey, right out the gate with the Angst.  Tbh Dean deserves it.

“Like I said, killing Amara, Jack dying...that’s the only way.”

“The only way.  Our one shot.  Our Last chance.  You ever get tired of saying stuff like that?”

“We don’t have to like it, alright?  But you and me, we gotta get it done.”

Amara is such a welcome energy in this whole episode.  She’s warm and understanding, whip-smart and probably more powerful than Chuck.  I love her.

Sam is a wonderful, understanding, loving dad.  I love him eternally.  He loves Jack so much, he’s trying so desperately to do what’s right for Jack but also what’s right for the world.  Jack made this choice, but he can’t live with it.  How do you support your child when their life is at stake?

“Come on man.  Blindly following orders, lying to Amara, sending her to her death. Does any of this feel right to you??”

“It doesn’t matter how we feel!  You know what?  Stay.  Stay.  Someone has to be the grown up here.”

“Yeah well someone has to keep fighting for Jack!”

“He knows what he signed up for!”

“Last I checked, we don’t give up on family.”

“Jack’s not family.”

Y’all should have heard the noise I made.  What a fucking line.

“I know how you feel about the kid, I care for him too, I do, but he’s not like you.  He’s not like Cas.  He’s just not.”

“I’m- I’m ready.”

You can see the regret, the heartbreak in Dean’s eyes.  You can see how he wants to take those words back the moment he said them, and for Jack to hear them?  It’s unthinkable.

Sam and Cas I’m just so fucking emo dude.

“Sam, you stayed behind to find another way huh?  I woulda done the same.”

AMARA

First of all, LOVE this structure.

Amara and Chuck have such a fascinating dynamic.  Rob and Emily do a great job (as they have all along) by clearly being siblings but...heightened.  You can just tell they both exude power, and the other is the only one they consider an equal.

“You and Dean had that whole weird...thing.”

“That wasn’t you writing?”

“Ugh, not that part.  Gross.”

What I took away from this is what I’ve suspected all along.  They HAVE free will, just not total free will.  Dean and Amara’s connection wasn’t Chuck, there are parts of the story he didn’t write.  Obviously, this comes into play later. 

I also have a hunch that Chuck doesn’t write romance.  I also think that in particular will come into play.

“Balance.  Something we’ve never tried before.  Creation and destruction, light and dark, brother and sister united again, but on behalf of one world, this world.  True balance.  The way it was always meant to be.  But you can’t.  You only care about your pleasure, your story.  Well, I guess that makes you the villain.”

“Villains get all the best lines.”

We see again and again this season, Chuck is irredeemable.  He doesn’t care about the angels, he doesn’t care about the world, he doesn’t care about anything.  He is a petulant toddler who has broken his toys. And when he realizes he’s trapped, he gets angry, he shouts and screams, completely at odds with Amara’s peace.

“You can’t hold me here forever.”

“I can hold you long enough.”

DEAN

Pain is the name of the game in this section homies.  Because not only are we dealing with Dean’s pain, we’re also dealing with Jack’s.  Jack says he understands why Cas and Sam mean more to Dean, but Dean clearly doesn’t, he, once again, wants to say more, but is stopped, still stopped by his fear: his fear of not beating Chuck.

Alright guys, gals, and non-binary pals.  Let’s talk about Adam and Seraphina.

Adam.  The first man.  And Seraphina.  The angel.

“My old lady.  She’s the only one who could put up with me all these years.”

Yeah okay.  Volume at 100 I get it lmao.

But also: Adam wants God dead not because he and Eve were kicked out of the Garden, but because he went after their sons.  The theme of protecting the children strikes again.

“Killing God is your plan?”

“Yeah, Billie’s been giving us a hand but Sera and me, this is our baby.”

This juxtaposed directly with Dean’s own pain at what he has to do to kill Chuck, to gain his free will: the cost of his child.

Adam’s rib.

And who else might get his ribs hurt, only to be likely healed by an angel?

It’s fine, that’s fine.  I’m fine with that.

“Jack, I don’t know how to explain it but, when I found out about Chuck, it’s like I wasn’t alive.  Not really.  You know like my whole life I’ve never been free, but like really free.  But now?  Now me and Sam, we got a shot at living a life, without all this crap on our backs.  And that’s, that’s because of you.  So, I want to say, I need to say...thank you, Jack.  Thank you.”

I’m gonna have to do a separate post about just Dean in this episode, because there is so fucking much to talk about, but there are a couple of things that I think are important:  Dean realizes how wrong he was, to say what he said.  He knows that it’s not true, this is the way he’s always coped with loss, by pushing the person to be lost away, but for Jack to hear it?  He can’t stand for that.

And:

Dean has finally pushed through the barrier.  He won’t be quiet in the face of his doubts anymore.  This is a breakthrough for him, and, of course, there are more to come.

SAM

Sam and Cas, my chaos duo.

The box, the inscription, the door.

Death’s library, filled with dead reapers.

And there it is.  The Empty.

It tells Sam the plan, the plan for Billie to take God’s place.  For everything to go back to the way it’s “supposed to be.”

This has always been the game, since season 13.  This is the longest of long games.

Sam fuckin Winchester, lying his way out of a confrontation with the Empty like the legend that he is.

He comes back with a new purpose: to stop Billie’s plan, and here’s where we get to the heart of the episode and maybe the heart of the season.

“You hear that?  Dean, brought to the edge of doubt.  His sense of duty, his rage winning out in the end.  And poor Sam, always gotta know everything.  Can’t leave well enough alone.  This is my ending, my real ending.”

The gun comes out, pointed at Sam.

Hmm...what did I say during 15x05?  Oh yeah, this.

And:

Dean would never survive killing Sam, but he’s willing to do anything, anything to earn his freedom.  His ending, where one brother kills the other and then kill himself.

Why, you might ask, did Sam not mention that the angels would be sent back to Heaven, why does he not mention Cas?  I’ll tell you why, or rather, Becky will.

Plus, Dean looks back at Cas IMMEDIATELY when Sam says that, when he mentions Eileen, and THAT’S the first time he hesitates.  He can’t lose Cas.  But at the same time, he’s willing to do anything to have his freedom.

“Sam we don’t have a choice, Jack’s about to blow!”

“We always have a choice!”

You know me, just sitting here thinking about choice, the ability to choose, and how that translates to their free will.

And Sam...I don’t think there will ever be characters I love as much as these.

“I don’t care if Billie gets what she wants!  I don’t man, I’d trade it all, I’d trade em all for Chuck.  In a heartbeat!”

“What about me?”

“You’d trade me?”

“Chuck has to die.  He has to!  Otherwise he’ll keep us tap dancing forever, and I can’t live like that man, I can’t live like that, I won’t!”

“I know you feel like that right now, okay? I know you do, but you gotta trust me.  My entire life, you’ve protected me.  From Dad, from Lucifer, from everything.  I didn’t always like it, you know?  But it’s the one thing in the whole world that I could always count on.  It’s the only thing I’ve ever known that was true.  So please, put the gun away.  Just put it away.  We’ll figure it out, Dean, we’ll find another way, you and me.  We always do.”

Okay I feel like this is going to be one of those scenes that I cry watching for years to come.  Because fuck.  After fifteen years they finally admit that not only did Dean protect Sam from Lucifer, but he protected him from John.  John.  On a par with Lucifer.

Dean and Sam have, for so many years, sacrificed themselves for the other.  Dean’s demon deal, Sam and the trials, every season they have fought to see who can die the quickest for the other.  But this?  This is them fighting to stop the violence, to stop from killing the big bad.  This is them growing, in our eyes, in real time.  Sam has always been able to get through to Dean when no one else had a prayer, but for Dean to listen, for Dean to take his words to heart, to stop the hunt for Sam, for their family, that’s how you know they do have free will.

(Btw Chuck’s eye effect when he dusted Amara was sick as fuck but I’m emo for my boys so.)

Chuck knows it’s a loss, he knows that his story has, once again, been thwarted by the boys making their own choices.  And he’s pissed, but in his anger, we get a bomb dropped on us.

“Spare me your contempt Castiel, the self-hating angel of Thursday.  You know what every other version of you did after “gripping him tight and raising him from perdition”?  They did what they were told.  But not you.  Not the one off the line with a crack in his chassis.”

Are you fucking kidding me?

Also, just worth bringing up this one as well:

Every Castiel pulled Dean out of Hell.  Every one told him the same thing.  And yet, immediately, with this Cas and this Dean, something was different.  Because what has everyone seen about Cas, from the moment he met Dean?

And there’s our endgame people.  Laid out on the line.

But we ain’t done yet, fam.

We’ve talked about the handprint, but you know:

So there you have it, our prep into the “monumental” 15x18.  I have spec on that, of course, but I think a novel is long enough for this.

What to take away: Dean’s rage was always Chuck’s plan, they do have free will, their love for each other, for their family, is what will stop Chuck’s control, Death is about to come back with a vengeance, Cas’ deal is at play, and, most importantly, Castiel and Dean Winchester are a blind spot for Chuck, something he has never, not once, controlled.

[toxinoire]

First of all, same.

Second, every shitty character there can be redeemable, EXCEPT for JD, Kurt and Ram.

Is it because they're men? No. Because A. JD killed people and have no regrets. Sure, he's traumatized but that doesn't excuse him one bit. Kurt and Ram in both Blue and You're Welcome showcase misogyny and r*pe (for example, in You're Welcome "If you don't want me staring why you wearing that skirt").

The Heathers, hard to redeem but not irredeemable. All it takes is proper writing of character development that, takes A LONG TIME because no one changes in a jiff, a Heather³ redemption arc will be a slow burn. (Proof that they can be redeemed is all in the movie, Chandler being forced to suck this guy's d!ck when she clearly doesn't want to, Mac's almost suicide attempt and the fact that both Chandler and Mac weren't very nice to Duke that she snapped and bullied Mac)

Veronica, as we already saw, did have a bit of character development. Nicely written but not the BEST. But that proves that she can change, especially since she has hope for everyone. (Evidence: "They were just seventeen. They still had room to grow. They could have turned out good. But now we'll never know.)

The only way you can give JD a redemption if he ACTUALLY starts to regret his decisions, turn himself in and get therapy and rehabilitation. Same for Kurt and Ram.

For the Heathers, it should start with learning the value of everyone, no matter who they are. Regretting their actions, start off small by attending classes and not making fun of people, to stop being insanely rude, to complimenting (REAL compliments, no side remarks), to actually being nice, to finally apologizing to all the people they've hurt.

Veronica should apologize to Betty and Martha (because she actually hasn't, she doesn't say sorry in Seventeen Reprise), to apologizing to the people she, albeit unintentionally, ended up hurting due to her time with the Heathers.

That's how you can get these characters to be PROPERLY likable.

But in all honesty, the villain of Heathers is the School and it's staff. The ONE thing the musical got right was how the grown ups obviously don't care (Evidence: Shine a Light, the scene where Veronica accidentally tells everyone she killed Chandler, Kurt and Ram). They are growing teens who are under the wrong guidance.

Third, humanizing JD isn't necessarily bad BUT the fact that people now use that information to justify him and make him an "uwu misunderstood soft boi" is just wrong. Trauma can turn any good person into a psycho, which is JD in the musical BUT THE FACT THAT THE MUSICAL ROMANTICIZED HIM is not acceptable. I love the musical and JD and Veronica's duets but there's no hope in their romance.

In the movie, JD's mom is still very much dead BUT he and his dad have quite the okay relationship. So movie JD is worse on so many levels. The fact that they gave him an "out of love" motive is just stupid.

Fourth, the dynamic change with the Heathers and Veronica doesn't add up.

In the movie, Veronica and Chandler don't exactly get along but they seem to at least have some respect for the other. Also the scene where Ronnie looks at some pictures of her and Chan together PROVE that they were more than just associates. In the musical they fucking hated each other, and the only time they seem to respect each other are the ghost Chandler scenes (I love ghost Chandler but why is this the only time they seem to respect each other)

In the movie, Mac and Veronica had a slightly better relationship. During Mac's attempt, her asking Ronnie "Wanna cut off early? Buy some shoes or something lame like that?" Came out so naturally, meaning they were at least friendly. In the musical, they weren't friends at all until Mac's attempt.

In the movie, Duke and Veronica ARE friends, among all three Heathers, Ronnie is willing to call Duke her friend (A true friend's work is never done) and during their confrontation, Ronnie says "Why can't you just be a friend?" meaning that they ARE friends before the red scrunchie. In the musical....WHERE THE HELL IS THEIR FRIENDSHIP?!

Fifth, the only things in the musical that I prefer over the movie is ghost Chandler and the ending, not cause it's a happy ending, but because it shows that a society can actually be a decent place if it's under the right leadership.

That is all I have to say thank you.

i do think heathers the musical humanised jd a lot more, which is. a really bad message i think. like. we are not supposed to like him. and people watched the movie and said 'christian slater is hot as hell but i feel bad for thirsting after him' because. you know. terrorist.

but then after freeze your brain and the whole trauma with his dad, everyone went 'nahh jd is just misunderstoood, soft boyyy :('

like this man has killed three people and planned to blow up a school. we should not be glorifying jd. he is a horrible person. and i think the musical framing him as some kind of tragic martyr, veronica being really sad that he dies, shit like "im going steady, mostly he's awesome. if a bit too rock and roll! hehee", oh he's just a little guy!! is a dangerous mentality. i really do think heathers the musical was a really shitty adaptation and isnt faithful to the movie at all (but it still is one of my favourites because the music is just so fucking good.)

also veronica saying "ich luge bullets! you lied to me >:(" as if lying is the issue and he didnt just s h o o t t w o p eo p l e.

anyway. uh.

[egg-emperor]

Redeeming villains only works for those that like… actually show some want/need for it? Like Zuko from avatar is the most common example, peak redemption material, some 16 year old kid reaching for approval is a completely different world away from eggman who regularly kills/tortures people and literally does everything in his power to reinforce how bad of a guy he is and totally owns it! Dude doesn’t want to get better and that will always override anyone’s ability to change him

You're absolutely right! Not every villain deserves redemption or seeks to change for the better and I wish it wasn't forced onto every single one in fandoms. Some are perfectly set up for it in the canon material, while others are truly irredeemable and incapable of change. It all depends on why they're evil and their true intentions. And that's a good thing because there should be variety, otherwise every villain would be boring copies of each other.

Nothing implies that Eggman is evil due to anyone's influence, he doesn't have a backstory that points to wanting to do good and caring for others, and he shows no remorse or the desire to change. He could stop or change but chooses not to and clearly enjoys the chaos and destruction he causes to accomplish his goals. He doesn't want to change, even after all he's done and how many times people try to stop him.

He has done and continues to do terrible things that result in the suffering and deaths of many without an ounce of guilt. I'm not sure how people excuse it or believe he can suddenly start caring or wanting to do things differently. He never has and never will, no matter what. Some people are like that in real life too, impossible to change and forgive. Fans wouldn't forgive him or think he deserves a chance to redeem/better himself if he was a real person!

There's also the fact that he wouldn't allow anyone to change him or tell him what he should and shouldn't do. It confuses me when people think someone could come along and fix him/help him change for the better, as if he wouldn't immediately discard of them if they dared to challenge his ways because it's his way or else. He's a stubborn narcissist that's so deep in his beliefs and confident in his decisions that there's no getting through to him.

He always seeks to destroy those that get in his way, no matter their intentions. If they do, they become an enemy. He won't tolerate that criticism, whether it's just to stop him or even to reason that it's better for him. He won't understand because he's the best and he knows he's right, everyone else is beneath him and nobody can tell him what to do. He'd have to value them and their opinion first, which he doesn't. He'll put them in their place or destroy them.

He won't care if someone tries to criticize his actions or beg him to do good and consider others. He won't choose to by himself either because he doesn't have the capacity to care when he's so full of himself. There's no possiblity of him making the decision on his own, otherwise he would have done so long ago. But it's far too late, his actions can't be undone and he doesn't regret a thing anyway, despite acknowledging all the damage he's done.

He doesn't want to change or be saved and after all the years of his life he's spent only caring for himself and being determined to accomplish his goals, there isn't a single person that can convince him. If Sonic can't, nobody can. No type of relationship, friendship, romance, or otherwise could lead to redemption/him changing for the better. Some people are just genuinely terrible evil people that can't be changed and Eggman is one of them.

It doesn't matter how much someone tries to make him see how evil and fucked up he is. He knows what he does is evil, he uses the word to describe himself and his actions in the games. He doesn't care about doing good and being a better person because he knows what he wants and how to get it and he isn't going to let anyone stop him! He's never going to give up on his dreams, he's a very determined and egotistical character at his core.

The first important step in a villain wanting to be redeemed/change for the better is genuinely having the desire to. If they have to be forced into it or it can only happen under certain circumstances/thanks to someone else trying to 'fix' them, then it's not genuine and they aren't deserving of it. Eggman is one of those villains that doesn't care to change and is too selfish, arrogant, and stubborn for anyone else to have the ability to make him sway.

He's so sure of himself and who he is, he knows exactly what he wants and his passion, and determination to see his dreams come true will never die. A villain doesn't have to be redeemed or become nicer in any way for them to be a lovable one and it's also not the only way for them to be interesting, entertaining, and have any form of development. There's so much more fun to be had with writing them than trying to make all of them into better people.

That's why I love Eggman exactly as he appears in the game canon! He's beautiful, intelligent, funny, and delightfully evil. I've never wished for him to be redeemed or be less of a bad guy and I like the way he doesn't want to be, he's happy being who he is and he's fully confident in himself and his decisions. He also has a lot of fun being a villain, as he should because it's epic and exciting! He's a bad man but a perfect one and I love everything about him 🥰💜💕💘💖

[borisbubbles]

Character analysis: Vivienne de Fer (Dragon Age Inquisition)

So, if you’ve wondered where I popped off to the past two months or so, I’m going to give you an answer - I finally bought Dragon Age Inquisition (legit on my gaming wishlist since its 2014 release) and I’ve been obsessed with it ever since. 

The main draw to this game however, isn’t so much the gameplay (if you want a game that feels similar but has better gameplay - Assassin’s Creed Odyssey is what you’d want instead), but the storytelling and particularly the character development are top notch. All nine companions are fascinating and fleshed out in such a realistic manner I’m still gasping in awe on my fifth playthrough.  Thus, a post on it is in order. It’s a bit different from my usual content, but don’t let that discourage you - clearing my head from Dragon Age will allow me to let Eurovision back in and continue my unfinished 2020 ranking.  In this post, I will be analyzing one of DAI’s most interesting characters - none other than Madame de Fer herself, Vivienne.  Now, I’m under the impression that this is a rather unpopular opinion but I absolutely love Vivienne. And no, I won’t apologize for it. As a Templar-thumping elitist with a icy, sardonic demeanor the sheer ‘Idea Of A Vivienne’ is meant to make your head spin. Dragon Age has always been a franchise in which mages are a socially surpressed group and to be confronted with a socially confident enchantress who likes Templars and seemingly supports the social shunning out of her own ambition is the walking embodiment of flippancy. 

and yet, I feel a lot of sympathy for Vivienne. 

Yes, she’s a bitch. She knows she’s one and she’s a-ok with it. I won’t argue with that. Sadly, the “Vivienne is a bitch” rhetoric also drastically sells her short. Vivienne is highly complex and her real personality is as tragic as it is twisted. 

Madame de Fer

So let’s start with what we are shown on the surface. Vivienne is a high-ranking courtier from an empire notable for its deadly, acid-laced political game. She seemingly joins the Inquisition for personal gain, to acrue reputation and power, and eventually be elected Divine (= female pope) at the end of the game. She presents herself as a despicable blend of Real Housewife, Disney Villain, and Tory Politician, all rolled into one ball of sickening, unctuous smarm. Worse, the Inquisitor has no way to rebuke Vivienne’s absurd policies and ideas. You can’t argue with her, convince her to listen to your differing viewpoints or even kick her out the Inquisition. She has a way with words where she can twist arguments around in such a fashion that she lands on top and makes the other person look like the irrational party.

“Thus speaks the Inquisitor who has made so many mature and level-headed choices so far. Such as releasion malcontents upon the population without safeguards to protect them should they turn into abominations. Very wise. I rearranged some furniture. Lives aren’t thrown into jeopardy by my actions. Perhaps a little perspective is needed.”

She’s Cersei Lannister on creatine, Dolores Umbridge on motherfucking roids. If you look at merely the surface, then yes, Vivienne looks like the worst person ever created. I love a good anti-villainess however, and she’s definitely one. 

Yet, she never actually does anything ‘evil’? Yes, she is ‘a tyrant’ as a Divine, but 1) the person saying this is Cassandra, whose dislike for mage freedom is only matched by her dislike of being sidelined 2) Divine Vivienne isn’t bad to mages either? (hold that thought, I’ll get to it). She never actually sabotages the Inquisition, no matter how low her approval with the Inquisitor gets. She never attempts to stop them, no matter how annoyed she is. She’s one of the most brutally honest companions in the cast, in fact. (It always surprises me people call her a ‘hypocrite’ - you keep using that word and it doesn’t mean what you think it means.) The ‘worst’ display of character is when she attempts to break up Sera and the Inquisitor and even then - are we going to pretend Sera isn’t a toxic, controlling girlfriend with a huge chip on her shoulder? I love Sera, but come on.  

Vivienne is a character where the storytelling rule of Show, Don’t Tell is of vital importance. The Orlesian empire is an empire built around posturing and reputation. Nobody really shows their true motivations or character, and instead builds a public façade. It’s like how the Hanar (the Jellyfish people) in Mass Effect have a Public name they use in day-to-day life, and a Personal Name for their loved-ones and inner circle. Vivienne’s ‘Public Visage’ is that of Madame de Fer - this is the Vivienne who openly relishes in power, publicly humiliates grasping anklebiters with passive-aggressive retorts, the woman who is feared and loathed by all of Orlais, and this is the Face you see for most of the game.

The real beauty of Vivienne’s character and the reason why I love her as much as I do (which is to say - a LOT) are the few moments when - what’s the phrase DigitalSpy love so much - Her Mask Slips, and you get a glimpse of the real woman underneath the hennin.

This is the Vivienne who stands by you during the Siege of Haven and approves of you when you save the villagers from Corypheus’s horde.

This is the Vivienne who comforts you when you lament the losses you suffered.

This is the Vivienne who admires you for setting an example as a mage for the rest of Thedas.

This is the Vivienne who worries about Cole’s well-being during his personal quest, momentarily forgetting who or what he is. 

This is the Vivienne who, when her approval for the Inquisitor reaches rock bottom, desperately reminds him of the suffering mages go through on a day-to-day basis because of the fear and hatred non-mages are bred to feel towards them and how this can spiral into more bloodshed without safeguards. 

This is the Vivienne who shows how deep her affection for Bastien de Ghislain truly is, by bringing you along during his dying moments. I love this scene btw. This is the only moment in the entire game where Vivienne is actually herself in the presence of the Inquisitor - needless to say, I consider anyone who deliberately spikes her potion a motherfucking psychopath ^_^)

“There is nothing here now” fuck I *almost* cried at Vivienne, get out of my head BioWare, this is WRONG -- people who delude themselves this is an irredeemable character. 

So, who is Vivienne really?

Understanding Vivienne requires recognizing that the mask and the real woman aren’t the same person. I think her relationship with Dorian is the prime example of this. I love the Vivienne/Dorian banter train, obviously - an unstoppable force of sass colliding with an unmovable wall of smarm is nothing short of a spectacle. However, there’s more to it than their highly entertaining snipes. As the incredibly gifted son of a magister, Dorian represents everything Vivienne should despise, and should be a natural enemy to her. And yet, she doesn’t and he isn’t.. Their gilded japes at each other are nothing more than verbal sparring, not dissimilar to how Krem and Iron Bull call each other names when they beat each other with sticks. In what I think is one of the most brilliantly written interactions between characters in DAI, I present Vivienne’s reaction when the Inquisitor enters a romance with Dorian:

Vivienne: I received a letter the other day, Dorian. Dorian: Truly? It's nice to know you have friends. 🙄 Vivienne: It was from an acquaintance in Tevinter expressing his shock at the disturbing rumors about your... relationship with the Inquisitor. Dorian: Rumors you were only too happy to verify, I assume. 🙃 Vivienne: I informed him the only disturbing thing in evidence was his penmanship. 🙂 Dorian: ...Oh. Thank you. 😳 Vivienne: I am not so quick to judge, darling. See that you give me no reason to feel otherwise.

Madame de Fer can never be seen directly expressing approval to a relationship between the Herald of Andraste and an ‘Evil’ Tevinter ’Magister’. By this subtle, subtle conversation, Vivienne indirectly tells Dorian that she considers him a good match for the Inquisitor and approves of the romance. It’s one of those reasons why I could never truly dislike Vivienne - between the layers of elegant poison lies a somewhat decent woman who never loses sight of the bigger picture. Not a good person maybe, but not one without some redeeming qualities.

The crux of Vivienne’s personality is that she, like all DAI companions, is a social outcast. She’s a mage in a fantasy setting where mages are psionically linked to demons, and grew up in a country where the majority religion has openly advocated the shunning and leashing of mages (’Magic exists to serve man’ - the Chantry is so, so vile in this game.). Vivienne’s “gift” was discovered so early in her life that she can barely remember her parents. Vivienne grew up in a squalid boarding school, learning from a young age that she’s dangerous and her talents need to be tamed and curbed. She is also terrified of demons, as her banters with Cole point out:

Cole: You're afraid. You don't have to be. Vivienne: My dear Inquisitor, please restrain your pet demon. I do not want it addressing me. Inquisitor: He's not doing any harm, Vivienne. Vivienne: It's a demon, darling. All it can do is harm. Cole: Everything bright, roar of anger as the demon rears. No, I will not fall. No one will control me ever again. Cole: Flash of white as the world comes back. Shaking, hollow, Harrowed, but smiling at templars to show them I'm me. Cole: I am not like that. I can protect you. If Templars come for you, I will kill them. Vivienne: Delightful. 😑

Vivienne’s Harrowing is implied to have been such a traumatizing event to her that she’s developed a pavlovian fear of demons ever since. (Hence her hostility towards Cole.). Vivienne is fully aware of the inherent dangers of magic, and projects this onto all other mages. 

Besides, given how Dragon Age has a history with mages doing all sorts of fucked up shit, ranging from blood magic, murder, demonic possession and actual terrorism (yes, *ElthinaBITCH* had it coming, but let’s not pretend like Anders/Justice was anything other than a terrorist), Vivienne’s policies of controlled monitoring and vigilance are actually significantly more sensible than the options of ‘unconditionally freeing every mage all over Thedas’ and ‘reverting back to the status quo before the rebellion’. They’re flawed policies, obviously. When Vivienne says “mages” she pictures faceless silhouettes foremost and not herself. Regardless, unlike Cassandra and Leliana, Vivienne is aware of the fear others harbour for her kind, and how hard it is to overcome such perceptions.  

Additionally, Vivienne’s a foreigner. She is an ethnic Rivaini, a culture associated with smugglers and pirates (Isabela from DAO and DA2 is half-Rivaini). This adds an additional social stigma, again pointed out by Cole:

Cole: Stepping into the parlor, hem of my gown snagged, no, adjust before I go in, must look perfect. Vivienne: My dear, your pet is speaking again. Do silence it. Cole: Voices inside. Marquis Alphonse. Cole: "I do hope Duke Bastien puts out the lights before he touches her. But then, she must disappear in the dark." Cole: Gown tight between my fingers, cold all over. Unacceptable. Wheels turn, strings pull. Cole: He hurt you. You left a letter, let out a lie so he would do something foolish against the Inquisition. A trap. Vivienne: Inquisitor, as your demon lacks manners, perhaps you could get Solas to train it.

This is the only palpable example of the casual racism Vivienne has to endure on a daily basis - Marquis Alphonse is a stupid, bigoted pillowhead who sucks at The Game, but remember - Vivienne only kills him if the Inquisitor decides to be a butthurt thug. She is aware that for every Alphonse, there are dozens of greasy sycophants who think exactly like he does, and will keep it under wraps just to remain in her good graces. 

Finally, there’s the social position Vivienne manufactured for herself, which is the weak point towards her character imo. Remember, this woman is a commoner by birth. She doesn’t even have a surname. Through apparently sheer dumb luck (or satanic intervention) she basically fell into the position of Personal Mage to the Duke of Ghislain. Regardless, ‘Personal mages’ were the rage in Orlesian nobility, and the prestigious families owned by them like one may own a pet or personal property. By somehow becoming Bastien de Ghislain’s mistress and using his influence, "Madame de Fer” liberated herself from all the social stigmata which should have pinned her down into a lowly courtier rank and turned the largely ceremonial office of “Court Enchanter” into a position of respect and power. This is huge move towards mage emancipation by the way, in a society where, again, Mages are feared and shunned and are constantly bullied, emasculated and taught to hate their talents. Vivienne is a shining example of what mages can become at the height of their power. Power she has, mind you, never actually abused before her Divine election. Vivienne’s actions will forever be under scrutiny not because of who she is, but because of what she is. The Grand Game can spit her out at any moment, which will likely result in her death. 

Inquisitor: “You seem to be enjoying yourself, Vivienne?” Vivienne: “It’s The Game, darling. If I didn’t enjoy it, I’d be dead by now.”

Whether Vivienne was using Bastien for her own gain or whether she truly loved him isn’t a case of or/or. It’s a case of and/and. The perception that she was using Bastien makes Vivienne more fearsome and improves her position in the Grand Game, but deep down, I have no doubts truly loved him. Remember, Vivienne’s position at the Orlesian court was secure. She had nothing to gain by saving Bastien’s life, but she attempted to anyway. That Bastien’s sister is a High Cleric doesn’t matter - Vivienne can be elected Divine regardless of her personal quest’s resolution. She loved him, period. 

No, I don’t think Vivienne is a good person. She treats those she deems beneath her poorly, like Sera, Solas, Cole and Blackwall (characters I like less than Vivienne), which I think is the #1 indicator for a Bad Personality. But I don’t think she qualifies as ‘Evil’ either and I refuse to dismiss the beautiful layering of her character. I genuinely believe Vivienne joined the Inquisition not just for her personal gain, but also out of idealism, similar to Dorian (again, Cole is 100% correct in pointing out the similarities between Dorian’s and Vivienne’s motivations for joining, as discomforting it is to her). 

In her mind, Vivienne sees herself as the only person who can emancipate the mages without bloodshed - her personal accomplishments at the Orlesian court speak for themselves. Vivienne isn’t opposed to mage freedom - she worries for the consequences of radical change, as she believes Orlesian society unprepared for the consequences. Hence why she’s perfectly fine with a Divine Cassandra. Hence why her fellow mages immediately elect her Grand Enchanter of the new Circle. 

Hence why Vivienne is so terrified by the Inquisitor’s actions if her disapproval gets too low. The Inquisitor has the power to completely destroy everything she has built and fought for during her lifetime. Remember: Vivienne’s biggest fear is irrelevance - there’s no greater irrelevance than having your life achievements reverse-engineered by the accidental stumbling of some upstart nobody. This is the real reason why she joins, risks her life and gets her hands dirty - the only person whose competence Vivienne trusts, is Vivienne’s own. 

Even as Divine Victoria, I’d say she’s not bad, at all actually. Vivienne has the trappings of an an Enlightened Despot, maintaining full control, while simultaneously granting mages more responsibility and freedom, slowly laying the foundations to make mages more accepted and less persecuted in southern Thedas. Given that Ferelden is a feudal fiefdom and Orlais is an absolute monarchy, this is a fucking improvement are you kidding me. (Wait did he just imply Vivienne is secretly the best Divine - hmm, probably not because Cass/Leliana have better epilogues - but realistically speaking, yes, Viv should be the best Divine and it’s bullshit that the story disagrees.) 

Underneath the countless layers of smarm, frost and seeming callousness, lies a fiercely intelligent and brave woman, whose ideals have been twisted into perversion by the cruel, ungrateful world around her. Envy her for her ability to control her destiny, but know that envy is what it is.  

The flaw in Vivienne’s character isn’t so much the ‘tyranny’ or the ‘bitchiness’ or the 'smarm’. Her flaw is her false belief that she is what the mages need the most. Her belief that her competence gives her the prerogative to serve the unwashed mage masses... by ruling over them. For all intents and purposes, Vivienne is an Orlesian Magister and this will forever be the brilliant tragedy of her character. She was created by a corrupt institution that should, by all accounts fear and loathe her but instead embraced her. It’s that delirious irony that makes Vivienne de Fer one of the best fictional characters in RPG history.  the next post will be Eurovision-related. :-) 

[dramionediscussion]

I have a concern about Dramione fandom, which has been slightly troubling me lately. I am not saying that this is something that is going to happen, or is happening already. Naturally, I don’t think this is entirely unfounded either (hence why I am writing this), but I am just one Dramione shipper. If this doesn’t resonate at all, that’s totally fine! We are all aware of extremely boorish and fatuous anti-Dramione people, who troll, defame and accuse Dramione of being all sort of things. We are also probably all quite familiar with their claims about the ship and its shippers. You know, Dramione promotes racism, sexism, classism, unhealthy and abusive relationships, it’s all about bashing Ron, it’s just cuz actors are hot, we should all pay homage and tribute to canon relationships (and their shippers naturally), and offer respect and fawn over everything “canonical” for gracing us with all this HP bounty, and so on. This time I am not going to try to offer rebuttals, or deconstruct their arguments, or even psychoanalyze them more than absolutely necessarily. I am not even particularly upset about them (anymore). They are categorically wrong, their arguments are never insightful or thoughtful. Most importantly, they are disingenuous in their argumentation and especially about their own motives. I believe, the best course is ignore them totally. What I am afraid, that these endless arguments, relentless belittling, and even harassment of which they never seem to grow tired off actually might change Dramione shippers and community as well. Not in a conscious way, but constantly being on a defense can make people internalize some of these arguments. Or rather their premises and assumptions on which they are based upon. I don’t mean it, that Dramione shippers will suddenly wake up, and shout out that Dramione was actually all about abusing women all along, or anything like that. What I mean is, that people rather internalize certain assumptions, framing and logic chains, which are build into those arguments. In a defense, they start define what Dramione really means, what is ideal Dramione, what is acceptable or desirable in Dramione fics, in accordance of these attacks, by unconsciously defending their ship from slander. As an example, Romione people constantly accuse that Dramione is either all about mindless “Ron bashing”, and Dramione shippers rightly say that it’s not what Dramione is about at all. What I am afraid, that people might internalize the point, that “Ronbashing” is something truly heinous, and what should be avoided at all cost. And as a corollary to that, ideal Dramione fics are those in which there’s no conflicts between Ron, Draco and Hermione. Or the very least they are resolved in a conciliatory and harmonious manner. Or it is lazy Dramione writing, when Ron is “villainized”. Or another thing they say is, that Dramione just about glorifying and eroticizing abusive relationships. This might lead that some of us accept the framing, that describing or narrating something is totally same as promoting and celebrating it. If they accept it, then it’s quite easy to logically infer, that if Dramione is not defined by Draco abusing Hermione (it’s not), then it must be defined negatively as its opposite. Meaning that something cannot be genuine or accepted Dramione, if it contains an abusive Draco. Or as an induction from that, if a fic has an abusive Draco, it also must contain a redemption arc, and Draco has to change and make amends, and redeem himself as a person. That we start to define Dramione being really about redemption or redeeming, forgiveness, changing oneself for the better, etc (as contrary to their claim that its about abuse). Don’t get me wrong, I’d say the majority of Dramione fics contain a redemption story arc, and Draco either has changed or actively changes his views and behavior. It’s a common and wonderful theme, and almost all my favorite Dramione fics have those, and I like just for its own skae. Yet it’s not something what either makes or unmakes Dramione. There’s a minority of fics, in which Draco is never truly redeemed (usually a lust-filled obsession, with many many cognitive dissonances, which he never solves), and they are as Dramione as anything else, and some people enjoy writing them and some people reading them (or at least some of them). Also, a lot of gray areas, which can be quite delightful, thought inspiring and invigorating (and hot!).  Speaking for myself, I’d say maybe 1/20 of my favorite fics have this dynamic or something close to it. Maybe 33% are more in that gray area. It doesn’t do any harm, there’s nothing ethnically wrong about it, I never idolize that behavior. If Romione stans have problem with that, they can go away, cry and tell that Rupert Grint body pillow all their troubles, because I don’t give a damn. People don’t emulate or model their behavior or preferences from YA fanfics or smut in that sense in any significant numbers. If someone does, I am sorry to say, but you probably weren’t going to make it anyway. It’s the irl version of getting a comedy death in a video game, like if a smarter-than-average mushroom hypnotizes you and makes you walk into a bottomless pit, or something like that. Your problems are deep seated and numerous, which unless dealt with, will be triggered by just about anything. Its pure happenstance whether it will be Harlequin novels, Dramione fanfiction, urban legend your cousin told you, or whatever. This could go on, but seriously, Dramione shippers have nothing to prove or even argue with those antis. It’s just bottomless pit of resentment, what they twist into moral arguments, which they think will signify us as the worst kind of people, and they themselves as the most virtuous. Their antipathies are petty and personal concerns, in which they feel like the universe and the abominable cabal of Dramione shippers have cheated them out of all that attention, writers, fans, fics, and deference they feel entitled to. It’s natural for humans to cloak often even most pettiest and nonsensical slights and resentments into whatever moral or ethical language and arguments the society they live holds sacred. If we would be living in the 1600s, they’d be scouring the Bible for anti-Dramione arguments, and denouncing Dramione as unchristian and sinful. By their stated “moral standards”, there are a lot more “vile” and “harmful” ships out there, but they aren’t functionally bothered by them at all. So, unless really prompted, they don’t even bother to denounce them, little alone wage this never-ending crusade against them. That’s because they aren’t popular enough to trigger that envy and resentment (Hermione with basically any of the worst Death Eaters). Or they feel that they don’t compete in the same niche as their ship does (Drarry as an example). I wouldn’t be writing this, if this discourse with Antis hadn’t affected me as well. There was a time, I wanted to understand what they were about, and I read a lot of their grievances and internal discussions. While reading I couldn’t help but to be on a defense all the time. Sort of refuting and counter-arguing against their points in my mind, while reading their diatribes (I tried to start a dialog couple of times, but I was always totally ignored, which I am thankful for them in retrospect). Conditioning myself with that for long enough, I did notice that I started to feel a bit hesitant about certain tropes and Dramione fics I hadn’t before. I was thinking about Dramione like a defense attorney, excepting to be attacked from all directions. It actually took me quite long to figure this out, and how the bile of HP fandom had in subtle ways affected my sense and tastes without my really noticing.

Anonymous submitted: P.S. I wrote that previous submission, and I have to add, that I am not trying to say this is happening or pointing any fingers at anybody. There’s perfectly good reasons to not like any Dramione fic, as a Dramione shipper, in which Draco is irredeemable or evil. There’s perfectly legitimate reasons to prefer fics, which Ron is portrayed as a positive influence for Dramione. People can arrive to same conclusions or tastes from countless different routes and reasons. The negativity that the HP fandom and Romione shippers especially grace us just got to me in a way, that I wasn’t even cognizant about. It might be the case for others as well, if their own self-reflection so deems (or not).

------------------------

I agree with every point you’ve made. While it’s obviously okay to discuss why you like Dramione (or any other pairing), people also need to remember that they don’t have to justify why they ship Draco and Hermione together or prove (especially to haters as they’re not worth anyone’s time) that their OTP makes sense because even if it makes no sense whatsoever, it’s still fine to ship it as long as you can differentiate between fantasy and reality. I don’t know about you, but when I started shipping Dramione, it was like love at first sight. I didn’t think if they made sense, didn’t spend hours trying to make a list of arguments for Dramione, I just suddenly loved the idea of them together, believed they belonged together, and that was and still is enough. I don’t need to justify why I ship them, and neither does anyone.

It’s true that in most Dramione fics, Draco gets redeemed. It’s also true that most shippers prefer fics in which Draco gets a redemption arc, but we have to remember that there’s nothing wrong with enjoying fics in which Draco’s irredeemable or his relationship with Hermione is toxic. I myself read such stories from time to time. I like a good Ron bashing fic every now and then as well, and there’s nothing wrong with that either because it’s all fantasy, it’s all fiction, which, I believe, most Dramione shippers are aware of and accept. Hopefully, it won’t change, and no one will ever try to tell others what should and shouldn’t be written or what is and what’s not allowed in a Dramione fic.

- AgnMag

[mst3kproject]

Frankenstein’s Castle of Freaks

This movie has a real all-star cast as far as us MSTies are concerned.  There’s Rossano Brazzi, who was Phineas Prune in The Christmas that Almost Wasn’t; Edmund Purdom, whom we know as Griba from Ator, the Fighting Eagle; and Salvatore Baccaro, the leader of the cavemen in Starcrash.  The film itself is absolute, irredeemable trash and I love it like my own garbage child.

We begin out of nowhere with a bunch of peasants beating a caveman to death.  What?  Where are we?  When are we?  Who are these people?  Why is one of them a cavemen wearing a fur loincloth and the rest are just normal people in pants?  Why are they beating him?  Did he do something that pissed them off, or do they just hate him because they’re, like, anti-Neanderthal racists?  What the fuck is going on?  We will never really find out.  We just cut straight to Dr. Frankenstein hauling the troglocorpse into his lab.

That’s how this movie rolls.  Don’t bother asking questions, just try to keep up.

Count Frankenstein’s daughter Maria has returned to her childhood home, bringing along her fiancé Eric and her friend Krista, who has an unhealthy relationship with polka-dots.  Krista is immediately fascinated by the Count and his work, and he with her in turn.  It doesn’t take long for Krista to find out that Frankenstein is carrying on reanimation experiments in his basement, but that’s actually the least of the bullshit going on around here.  There are more cavemen out there, but there’re also rivalries and love triangles among the inevitable gaggle of deformed assistants, and the local villagers are angry about a spate of grave robbing and determined to run the Frankensteins out of town.  The ‘monster’ (I’m not sure it quite counts) is kind of an afterthought.

See, Hans the Butler hates Genz the Dwarf (even though it’s actually Kregan the hunchback who is fucking Hans’ wife) so he gets him fired, and Genz swears revenge on the whole Frankenstein household. Wandering in the woods, Genz meets and befriends a second caveman, naming him ‘Ook’ and teaching him how to rape women in the hopes that he will do violence to Maria Frankenstein.  Ook, however, kidnaps Krista instead.  At about the same time, Genz sneaks back into Castle Frankenstein to free the first caveman, Goliath, whom the Count has been keeping strapped to a table after bringing him back to life, and who has also fallen in love with Krista as the latter assists the Count with his work.  Goliath goes on a murderous rampage, then follows Genz back to the cave where Ook is keeping Krista.  Sure enough, this leads to a caveman-vs-caveman battle for the girl!

Man, I would love to see earlier drafts of this script, mostly because I’m dying to know whether some prior incarnation of it actually had anything to do with Mary Shelley’s book or even with previous Frankenstein movies.  I mean, it starts with the servants digging up a corpse, and ends with a torch-and-pitchfork mob destroying the Count’s creation… the beginning and end of a Frankenstein movie are present.  In between those, however, it wanders off on this bizarre tangent about the local cryptids. As it reached the screen, the only thing Frankenstein’s Castle of Freaks seems to have in common with its source material is the threat to the Count’s girlfriend, which was issued by the Creature in the original story.  Technically, even the grave robbing and re-animating have nothing to do with Frankenstein, or the Modern Prometheus – the book never actually says how the Creature’s body was created. The idea of piecing it together from corpses originates with the Boris Karloff movie.

Let me describe some more of the stuff that goes on here, in order to give you the flavour of the experience.  For starters, Salvatore Baccaro, playing Ook the caveman, is credited as ‘Boris Lugosi’ in the opening credits.  The first time I saw this movie I snorted water up my nose when that popped on screen.

Later in the movie there’s a flashback to that first peasants-vs-caveman scene, and it answers none of the questions I listed above. Why are there cavemen in these woods? I dunno, there just are.  What did the cavemen do to piss off the locals?  I don’t know that, either… they may have been stealing livestock, I guess, but they don’t seem to have been a threat to the people until Genz taught them about rape.  Kind of makes one wonder what happened to the cavewomen, since we never meet one and these guys don’t seem to know what women are, as illustrated by Ook initially thinking their nubile young captive is going to be dinner. Also, although there are two cavemen, they don’t know each other.  Genz has to introduce them!

There’s a bit where Genz is hiding behind a clock to watch Maria and Eric have sex.  The butler comes along and chews him out for it, sends him to his room, and then he stands there and watches them for a while.

In another scene, Maria and Krista go skinny-dipping in a mineral spring, and the longer it goes on the more the dialogue sounds like it’s going to break into lesbian porn.  I am particularly fond of the exchange where Maria says, “don’t worry, this dress is designed to be easy to get out of,” and Krista, impressed, replies, “I’ll say it is!”

The subplot in which the butler’s wife is having an affair with the hunchback has no effect on the plot whatsoever.  The butler never even finds out about it.  There’s a scene in which they run off to the barn to slap each other and smooch, and then the movie forgets about it.  Astonishingly, the same is true of the corpse the servants dig up early on.  They exhume the body of a recently dead woman, Genz cops a feel and leaves some footprints at the scene so that the villagers can figure out who was responsible, and… that’s it.  She doesn’t even hang around as a gratuitous zombie like the grave-robbed girl in The Atomic Brain.

According to Wikipedia, nobody will admit to directing this movie.  Like many Italian films, the director used a pseudonym, and the cast apparently disagree on even such basics as his nationality.  Some of them think he was Spanish, but Simonetta Vitelli, who played Maria Frankenstein, insists he was an American.

At the end of the movie, Ook is the first of the cavemen to be killed, and we get to see Genz weeping over his friend’s dead body.  Then he and Krista hold each other as the mob closes in on Goliath.  This is supposed to be a tender moment but it looks a lot like Genz (who is, you must remember, around four feet tall) is enjoying his faceful of boobs.  Since all alternative love interests for Krista are now dead, maybe we’re supposed to think she ended up marrying Genz.

Finally, as Goliath’s body burns, Edmund Perdom intones, “there’s a bit of the monster in all of us, especially where there’s fear.”  I’ll drink to that, my dude.  ‘Twas beauty killed the beast.  He tampered in God’s domain.

That probably is supposed to be the movie’s point. The villagers are depicted as suspicious, fearful, and quick to violence, while the cavemen seem to have been relatively peaceful types until Genz taught them how to rape.  It’s very much the Homo sapiens who are the monsters there. Frankenstein’s servants are all assorted shades of horrible, from Genz the necrophile to the nasty cackling butler to the adulterous hunchback and cook.  Count Frankenstein himself isn’t quite so overtly evil but it’s clear that he’s not very interested in the moral dimension of his work.

Even if that’s an intentional theme rather than just a pithy closing line, I don’t think anybody thought about it very hard. The rest of Frankenstein’s Castle of Freaks is too much of a mess.  There’s no real plot, no identifiable protagonist, it’s sleazy and incoherent and at times it’s horrifyingly abelist… and yet, for reasons I cannot explain, it’s weirdly entertaining.

Maybe it’s just that everything in the film is so damn ridiculous.  So much of what happens comes out of nothing and goes right back into it… a series of mind-boggling what the fuck moments that surprise the viewer over and over.  The impression is that the writers are throwing horror concepts at the screen to see what sticks, but nothing does.

Maybe it’s that this is another villain-centric piece.  You know I like those.  I guess maybe Krista is the heroine?  She seems to do the fewest horrible things over the course of the story, but she’s not a good person, either.  She’s totally into the Count’s creepy reanimation experiments, and makes only a token protest about the idea of informed consent.  Edmund Perdom’s Inspector character is one you’d expect to try and do something about these goings on, but he never does.  Maria and Eric are only in the movie so it can have a sex scene.

Whatever the reason, the result is inexplicably charming. Between the easily distracted plot, the gratuitous breasts, the bad dubbing, the complete failure to either frighten or titillate, and the fact that it tries to tie itself to a lucrative franchise it really has nothing to do with, Frankenstein’s Castle of Freaks is almost the perfect example of a bad Italian horror flick from the 70’s.

[hjazysol]

Boss of the OLSP

Juyo 'Taimatsu' Zuki

Age: 50

Quirk: Fire Bodied. Can use highly controlled amounts of fire and turn into fire. Can send fire in through the pores and burn you from the inside out.

He is the the one who created the concept of the OLSP. Juyo created this system as as way that would allow him to enforce his ideal of 'True Justice' without anybody getting in his way. To him it doesn't matter what's done. As long as Justice is gained, it's how the game will be played.

As an example an everyday hero would go about their day trying to cause as little damage to property as possible. Where as Mr. Justice over here wouldn't care as it would only be an obstacle in the way of peace to him.

He originally tried this method while on his hero course. While he did pass, he was threatened multiple times to have his liscense revoked because of his methods. So he played by the rules for a bit. Gained a great reputation, he was well known to the people as the Burning Will of Justice. Heat Zone.

Once he had enough credit to his name he had the OLSP created as a prison made for the world's most notorious villains arouund all continents. Being put there would be like getting a nomination.

When finding the right guards. It took a couple mishaps for him to find the perfect ones. One mishap fortunately leading to one of his best - Zeph.

Juyo actually does not have a bomb. Because there's absolutely no way he would ever give up on his views for Justice. If he were to he would kill himself.

He was always in that 'Just' mindset he'd always fight off people's bullies. He'd pick fights with people he caught cheating in school. He'd beat up a teacher if they were half assing their job. The only things keeping him from going over the edge was his family and love Monica.

His father who had also been a hero was killed by a highly dangerous irredeemable villain. And then a few years later after being released from prison they came back and killed his other relatives, along with Monica who was at the house at the time. They had them choose the one person who would get to live everyone aside from Juyo chose him.

He blamed everything on the heroes and anyone else involved with that villain. So went down the path he chose to show them that killing the worst villains leads to a better world. And now with his security and help from allied Quirks, on the Country Juwury he and his world view is untouchable.

If he uses his Quirk without small breaks inbetween he'll burn out and get exhausted. To prevent such things he started carrying coal around to eat, which gives him more firepower. To him its as edible as any other food.

Naturally against water he's next to useless, and fighting against metal users can be difficult unless he has time to melt them.

Juwury rarely ever has crime occur because of Juyo's influence and presence there. It's scarily popular there. Even though the actions in the OLSP would be considered illegal anywhere else. The law's of the country don't care about it.

Hokori and his group, not really caring about the law so much on their journey are the only real possible candidates who have a shot at bringing them down.

[bookofmirth]

I don’t understand why all sides of the fandom are getting so upset over evil Elain or evil Gwyn theories?? Because these theories actually do nothing to discredit ships??

I mean I think it’s pretty clear that even if one of them turned out to be working for Koschei, it would likely be because they were misled or forced into it. Like I’ve seen a theory that Elain is trying to turn human again and Koschei promised to help her, but then she got in over her head. Or if Merrill was working for Koschei, Gwyn could’ve been helping her accidentally or was forced into it, or if she was a lightsinger it would probably be a plot point where Gwyn tries to overcome internal conflict over what it means to be a lightsinger and try to do good instead of evil.

SJM really doesn’t do well with moral ambiguity, and I have a very hard time believing she would just make Gwyn or Elain evil beyond redemption, if they did end up working for the villain in some way it would certainly be a plot point in the book where the love interest helps them along the way and it ends with the couple getting together.

That’s why I don’t understand all of the uproar in the fandom over this. Evil!Elain or evil!Gwyn doesn’t negate the idea of romance with Azriel. SJM isn’t just going to make secondary characters go through an entire villain -> redemption/healing arc off the page - they would be the main character/love interest of the book (SJM usually focuses all of her character development on the main characters of each book while the others only have small arcs or remain stagnant). If Gwyn was a lightsinger that would completely go hand-in-hand with Azriel being a shadowsinger and a plot centered on them and their romance. If Elain was evil that could fit in with an Azriel or Lucien romance where they find out and try to help her or something.

I completely understand that there is misogyny in fandom and that these theories are often spread to try to villainize another female character, which I hate has become so common in this ship war. But tbh, I don’t think these theories do a good job of discrediting the opposing ship to begin with, as explained above. And personally, I am interested in an evil!Gwyn or evil!Elain (I don’t care which, as I ship gwynriel and elucien) happening with a redemption arc because I want to see SJM tackle more complex character development and I enjoy morally grey characters.

Personally, I think that people relate too much to these characters across the board, and a lot of times people take any judgement, evaluation, criticism, analysis, or commentary about a character and think "hey if I love that character, that person must think that about me, too!"

Um, no. Separate yourself from the fictional character. It's good that you relate, but someone saying "omg Elain is sus" is not a personal condemnation of you for liking her! (You is not you, anon.)

I do see why people are more sensitive about the idea of Gwyn being evil. It doesn't help that as a sexual assault survivor, a lot of this discourse, well... We know who she was compared to, and it did nothing to help the overall credibility of the argument re: Gwyn being sus, because the emotional reaction or engagement of the audience was completely dismissed before the argument had even begun. Now, I think that argument is irrevocably tied to that moment in fandom time. Well, maybe not irrevocably. In two years or whatever when 90% of the fandom has moved on I'll still be here, in my rocking chair telling everyone about the time when...

SJM really doesn’t do well with moral ambiguity, and I have a very hard time believing she would just make Gwyn or Elain evil beyond redemption

lolol FOR REAL her villains are... not great. I think some people would argue that she is doing a good job with Eris, but since idgaf about him I'm not the best judge. But yeah, she would never make either character irredeemably bad.

I agree that the theories don't do a good job of discrediting the ships themselves. Elain or Gwyn being sus doesn't mean they can't be in a relationship? They can be a lightsinger or try to be human, and then be just fine and go off having babies or whatever.

To me, the Elain one is 100% about who she is as a person and what I think she might possibly want. Even if it were true, there's no reason that she couldn't then be with either Lucien or Azriel. Or Tamlin lol.

The reason that lightsinger theory bugs me is that it's so freaking out there. Even if she were a "good" one, the support for that theory is like Swiss cheese!!! If I sneeze it falls apart. I know it's all fun but people talk about it like it's canon. If it happens in the future, that's fine, it could be neat.

I wouldn't mind if either of those stories ended up happening, or both; I think that the comparison I mentioned above really soured the idea of Gwyn being sus for a lot of people, and people are ready to jump on anything and anyone they see as slightly problematic. I did see someone say that the idea of Elain being sus is actually problematic and that kinda killed me. Like how? Anyway...

I think we should all just take a minute, calm down, put the group chats on mute for an hour, separate ourselves from the characters, and then remember that the people we are talking to online are real people, and that Azriel or Gwyn or whoever is not going to fingerblast us in gratitude for defending them.

Cuz like you said... sometimes there is misogyny in fandom, but screaming "misogyny" is going to make someone a more righteous shipper. It's just going to call their critical thinking skills into question.

Thanks for this ask! I thought it was really well stated and I like seeing that other people can take off their shipping goggles.

[auredosa]

been doing some thinking and now i think i actually do seriously get why malistaire had to die. i’m not putting this in the main wizard101 tag because it feels kinda personal, and it’s also really heavy. anyways, if you choose to read this, i hope it gets you to think. that’s all i aim to do with anything i write, really. 

it comes back to that whole “not every villain needs to be redeemed” argument. thinking about malistaire and his actions alone, he doesn’t show remorse for all the things he did in his quest to revive sylvia. that was what he wanted all along; to be with her, and he got that when he was eventually sent to the other side.

yes his motive was tragic. yes he is a sympathetic villain, but that does not excuse him from the things he did. it doesn’t make sense for anyone (inlcuding cyrus) to forgive him because he was never sorry in the first place. 

even at the end of darkmoor, he doesn’t say he will surrender for himself, he only does it for others. you can still see him refusing to give up in death. he’s a villain all the way to the end, and it works. it makes sense. and i get it now. 

honestly i understand why i was so conflicted about his end. in the game, you’re meant to be the hero, you’re meant to save everyone, so when someone introduces the idea that a person is irredeemable and the only consequence is death, your first instinct is to say “no, they’re no beyond repair, i can fix them, they can be redeemed,” but that’s not true. not everyone deserves that second chance. consequences exist for a reason. 

when i was younger, i used to think “redemption should be given to anybody who wants it!” and i think i was half right. now i know better than to blindly turn people into saints. now it’s not so black and white.