#*points at under the red hood batarang to the throat*

[disniq]

Guys, please. This scenario literally just happened in canon, and it's Jason. Of course it's always going to be Jason.

[long-live-astronerd-ghost-king]

DPXDC prompt. Dead on main.

Okay, Danny’s revenge for Jason through the Joker murder is fine.

But imagine the wrath of the Ghost King who responds to a call for help from his boyfriend and finds Red Hood with his throat cut and bleeding. Aside from it, there’s a bloody batarang on the roof. And it just pisses the Phantom off. Bat just left main treasure of his core to die.

Danny is still terrified even when Frostbite confirms that Jason will survive. Dan’s future is still fresh in his memory. That’s probably why when the councilman takes him off hospital ward duty to clarify what His Majesty wants as the guarantor of the Peace Treaty with demon race and what price to set for summons from cults Danny answers without a second thought.

Phantom: Batman.

Ghost: From a cult, Your Majesty?

Councillors have long been accustomed to Phantom giving strange requests so that people would not have the opportunity to really summon him.

Phantom: From the cult, from demons, ghosts or elves. Whatever. I need Batman and I need him yesterday. I give any reward to whoever delivers him to me, the price will be fair.

Ghost: Your word is our command.

~~~~~

In Gotham it’s 4 AM when Constantine is calling an emergency Justice League meeting.

'What did you do, Bats?' Shazam asks with undisguised concern.

~~~~~

Bonus points if Jason has to teleport himself directly to the JL space station and stop his feral lover from murder. Yeah, this is definitely not how he planned to reveal who was hiding under the Red Hood.

[brucewaynehater101]

My bad, y'all, but uh... Here:

Also, obviously not strictly canon

Tw: attempted murder, mentions of canonical character death, aggression

Hurt no comfort

Jason... He's frozen. Every muscle in his body is locked as he tries to process the information. Deep down, past the onslaught of numbness and passive dissociation within his brain, several emotions and past experiences rage against each other.

He's not fully present as his lips creak open. "What?"

Tim, observing the older's state, pauses. He winces at his possible misstep and the obvious distress it's causing. "I-"

A omnious creak sounds out as Jason grips his holstered gun. "What did you just say?"

The numbness is being washed away by rage, and Tim nervously notices. He swallows. He can't tear his eyes from the threat in front of him even though the aggression sends bolts of fear into his intestines.

Jason removes his gun but doesn't point it at the younger man.

Tim's eyes flicker down to the gun and then back up to Jason's face. He nods slowly and shifts into a slightly more defensive position. "Superman stopped Batman from killing the Joker."

Jason stills once more.

He checks behind his shoulder before his head gradually swivels back to Tim. Even through the helmet, Robin can feel the oppressive gaze checking over him.

Red Hood doesn't find any wounds. There's no quickness of breath, frantic eye movement, or twitching. Tim is wary, but he's fully aware. He's not under any influence.

"Bruce was going to kill Joker?"

Robin slides a foot backward. He nods.

Jason's hands twitch. "Superman stopped him?"

Another nod.

"Why?"

The other foot slides back.

Red Hood takes a step forward.

They both freeze.

Jason is poised to leap for Tim and the younger one isn't certain he'd be able to escape. He grasps one of the batarangs as he answers.

"Joker somehow became Iran's ambassador. An American vigilante associated with the Justice League murdering the ambassador of a foreign country would have started World War Three."

Every line in Jason's body is tense. His muscles start to tremble with the sheer force and pressure he's exerting over them. His breathing becomes audible and distorted through the helmet as his chest heaves.

"Bruce was going to kill the Joker."

Tim nods.

"Superman stopped him."

Another more hesitant nod.

"Batman never tried again."

Robin grimaces.

Red Hood nods to himself. His head turns away from Robin as he tries to process his bitter acceptance at the inevitability against the crushing weight of disappointment when he had foolishly hoped differently. Jason knew, especially after his confrontation with Batman, that the man wouldn't have tried to avenge him. A crapshoot one-time effort doesn't count when Batman has access to finish the job at any point that clown is rotting in Arkham. The only part that's changed is Red Hood's opinion on the Boy Scout.

He should be used to heroes failing him by now.

Tim, as he sees the fury tightly coiled in Red Hood's fists and the sag in his shoulders, clears his throat. When the eyes of the helmet peer back at him, he tries to defend them.

"It was the right choice."

With the rage suddenly being pointed towards Tim, the teen can't help but flinch.

"What?"

Robin's hand fiddles with his collar as he uncertainly bites his lip. His eyes drift between the very angry man and various escape routes.

Red Hood snarls. "What the fuck do you mean by 'it was the right choice?'" With an angry stomp, he crowds Tim's space until he's towering over the younger kid. "Tell me what you mean by that, Pretender!"

Robin swallows nervously as he raises both hands in front of him. His palms face Jason in both an appeasement gesture as well as in preparation to push away the older teen if it calls for that. Despite the prickling stings of fear and anxiety, Tim continues. He's not one to back down from a threat.

"I mean exactly that. If Batman had killed Joker, it could have drawn America into a war with Iran. Superman made the right choice."

"You think- You-" A frustrated and pained growl leaves Jason's throat as he takes a step back. A hand drifts his helmet as he tries to calm his erratic breathing.

The crime lord releases a bitter laugh and takes another step back. "You actually believe that."

Tim doesn't respond.

There's another huff of resigned humor from Jason at this. "Of course you do." He takes another step back as he shakes his head. "Of course. What was I thinking?"

Red Hood grits his teeth. "Right. Yeah."

His gaze seems to drift to the city as he tries to order his thoughts. His emotions war in his mind, but overall he just feels tired.

"Batman was right not to kill the Joker. What else was I expecting?"

[swift-creates]

title: Protecting the Wrong Person

category: Gen

fandom: Batfamily

characters and relationships: Clark Kent, Bruce Wayne, Jason Todd, Dick Grayson, Diana Prince

warnings: some violence, swearing, descriptions of injury, blood, accidentally hurting someone

Summary:

@ailesswhumptober Day 17: Abandonment, misunderstanding, “Why did I even think you cared?”

Clark stumbles across Batman confronting the Red Hood and intervenes, but (especially with the Bats) things are never as they seem.

notes: one of the first fics I wrote for this month! I really like this one tbh

Diana flew beside him as they quickly zeroed in on Bruce’s position, the docks at Gotham Harbor. “Try not to sneak up on them,” she’d said as they set off from the zeta tube. As if Clark needed reminding. The last time he had accidentally startled Bruce, he’d ended up with a Kryptonite batarang stuck in his palm. But Diana didn’t seem too worried about it, and neither was Clark; today was a peaceful day, and all they wanted to do was pick Bruce up early for a Watchtower briefing (and if they were accused of intending to sneak an episode of the Gray Ghost on the Watchtower surveillance screens before the meeting, they would surely deny it). 

“Nearly there,” Clark said to her now. They were approaching the harbor, and he could see Batman and Nightwing facing down Red Hood. He tensed when he realised the rogue was armed, gesturing casually with twin pistols as he spoke, but their heartbeats were steady. They had it under control. Diana and Clark would not intervene unless it was absolutely necessary. He reined his senses back in to keep from eavesdropping — Bruce was always going on about privacy, despite the fact that he was always keeping tabs on everyone. 

Batman said something, and Hood replied. Nightwing chimed in before gesturing to Hood, probably admonishing him for being so nonchalant with the pistols. His heart jumped into his throat as the criminal visibly scoffed and gestured even more pointedly at both of them, leveling one at each vigilante. 

The gun was pointing straight at Bruce’s face. Hood’s finger shifted on the trigger, and Clark saw red. 

~

Bruce watched fondly as Dick and Jason bickered over who had really taken out the last henchman. 

“It’s my bullet.”

“And it would never have hit him without me kicking that panel into place.” 

“All you can take credit for is the rebound. I shot it!” 

Bruce resisted the urge to reach out and indulgently pat Jason on the shoulder (or even more embarrassing, ruffle his hair). “Nightwing, Hood. Good work.” Dick looked content enough with that, but Jason rolled his eyes perceptibly. 

“It was good until Big Bird tried to take credit for my moves.” He jabbed one pistol at Dick, and Bruce tried to imagine him pouting under his mask. 

“Little Wing, put those things away, you’re gonna shoot someone,” Dick said admonishingly. 

Jason scoffed. “Please. As annoying as you are, I think I can not accidentally put a bullet in either of you. Comes from, y’know, having years of experience handling firearms and some fucking common sense.” He pointed the other at Bruce. “See? Not dead.” 

Bruce opened his mouth to chide him, but couldn’t. 

One second Jason was standing in front of them, then there was a flash of blue and red.

And then he heard Jason scream.

His body was moving before his brain knew he was, every instinct pulling him to pull his son away from the attacker. It took him a second longer than he liked to recognise who it was rearing back for another blow, and every bit of his panic and anger and shock snapped into his voice as he shouted. 

“SUPERMAN.”

He froze at his name, and Bruce looked to Dick, but his eldest had already made it to Clark, wrapping his arms around familiar broad shoulders and yanking harshly back. If it had been just about anyone else, the super would have refused to budge, Bruce knew. But it was Dick, and he was close enough to see Clark’s eyes widen as he went down willingly. 

Dick had always adored, borderline idolised Clark, trusted him with his life and the lives of his team and everyone else counting on them to save the world. But now Dick — cheery, gentle Dick — was snarling and pressing a Kryptonite dagger to Superman’s throat. “Get away from him.” He obviously had it handled (wait, where the hell did he get-? Nope, never mind, not now), so Bruce moved to Jason and felt the mask of his expression crack. 

He was lying in the ruins of what used to be a brick wall, helmet cracked, one leg bending at an unnatural angle, the jagged edge of a bloody bone poking out of his side, and he was screaming. His baby boy, his son, who could take bullets without flinching and stitch himself up with barely a sound, was screaming in pain. 

Bruce dropped to his knees beside Jason and reached for his helmet, pressing his thumb to the button that disabled the electric safeguards and pulling it off to cradle his son’s face. “Jason. Jay, can you hear me?” 

“Nnh- B-Bruce?” 

“Shhh. I’ve got you. You’ll be okay.” 

Distantly, he heard Diana land behind him and pull Dick and Clark apart. “Kal-El, what have you done?” she whispered. Clark made no reply. 

Blood bubbled from the side of Jason’s mouth as he let out a plaintive whimper, and Bruce stroked his hair soothingly before tearing himself away and rounding on his best friend. 

“You made this mess. You’ll fix it,” he growled, jabbing one finger into the symbol on his chest. “Take him to the Watchtower.”

Clark winced, probably at the look on Bruce’s face rather than the jab. “Bruce, I,” was all he said before Diana slipped past him to look Bruce in the eye. 

“He’ll react better to me, and you know it.”

“…Fine.” She frowned, but didn’t reprimand him and went to gingerly pick Jason up. 

Jason gave a strangled cry of pain, and Bruce was at his side in an instant. “It’s okay, sweetheart. Just breathe for me.” He felt something in his chest constrict at the sight of Jason struggling to regulate his breathing. Brushing bits of rubble from his hair, Bruce leaned over to press a soft kiss to his forehead. “That’s it, Jaylad. You’re doing great.” He stepped back to let them go, shooting Clark one last glare. 

Dick watched them from a nearby crate with eyes narrowed like a panther’s, smoothly returning the dagger to his belt and falling into step behind Bruce as Diana and Clark lifted off and he headed to the Batmobile. “I know he didn’t mean to,” he muttered, the first words he’d said since pinning his role model to the wall with a lethal weapon, “but he did.” Bruce agreed, pausing to squeeze his shoulder briefly. If he spoke, he was going to start yelling and never stop. 

They got into the Batmobile and headed to the Gotham zeta tube. He would start yelling, but not at Dick. And the faster they got to the Watchtower, the better. He didn’t want Jason to wake up alone. 

[apopcornkernel]

“the one year later event is mostly a clown carnival BUT i actually love the nightwing brothers in blood arc . they did that for me. complicate your familial relationships!!! no linear healing and no linear love!!!!!!” —me, right before my reread of nightwing: brothers in blood, unaware of the emotional tumult i was about to unleash on myself

an assortment of thoughts after my reread of nightwing: brothers in blood

(omg kalis user jason todd means filipino jason todd— okay yes ik it's a kris and that talia gave it to him and that a kalis is longer, sword length, but let me be delusional for a moment)

fanon and ao3 would have you believe that dick would be reaming bruce out for his behavior in batman: under the hood. it is a delight to rediscover that though dick remains #1 batman arguer, he has not done anything of the sort in regards to how bruce has treated jason's return.

introducing my new fav panel of all time:

And Jason, Jason... God, I wish he had died that night with Batman and Joker...

i lied in the post title, btw. i actually have only one main thought about this run.

i have a proposition to make, batman fandom: dick is actually more wary of Jason then bruce is.

i think—dick heavily dislikes jason for always being able to uncover the old wound. i think as someone who's been there since the start, has seen bruce through his best and his worst, cannot stand this grinning spectre upending all the progress bruce has made with his grief. and! i think a part of dick has always felt unsettled that even he couldn't completely heal that grief. and the one person who could do it (he thinks), the one person who is against all odds alive to do it—what does jason do? he needles the wound open. he won't let it rest. he beats up dick's little brother. he sows chaos all over gotham and dick's new city. he saw bruce drown in the self-destructive depression for years and the one person who might have helped ease it in a way no one else could is too busy cutting a bloody swath through various cities.

i think, also, that this—detachment, if you will, is aided by the fact that dick and jason did not know each other as well as they might have. jason was taken in after bruce fired dick, so nightwing was still taking off solo. they have been able to connect and dick and jason have very cute interactions pre-ditf but it's a drop in the ocean compared to dick and tim's relationship.

there is also, i think, a disconnect between robinjay and red hood jason—his little brother died with robinjay, and whoever the red hood is is almost a stranger

He's someone from a long, long time ago. Black sheep of the family, as it were. His name is Jason Todd. He thinks he's me. This may sound crazy, but... he's supposed to be dead. Twice over.

"from a long, long time ago." and like i said, there's this almost detachment from dick, no (positive) reminiscence of jay's robin days. i do think that dick, wrt jason, is mostly unrestrained by past sentiment—or at least he's better at separating that sentiment than bruce, who although tries to remain objective in his chase against red hood, is also notably shaken, to the point that jason was able to force his hand & drive him to panic, leading to half-thought, panicked decisions that a level-headed batman would not have made (as i think we are all in agreement that bruce would not actively decide to disarm his son via batarang to the throat, especially considering his no-kill rule.)

there's more i'd like to say, but this is most of it—i don't want to drown the dash with batman rambling, but im asking yall to consider it. think about how delicious this dynamic is!! there's so so much to explore!!! and i think it really hammers home just how much the world has changed during jason's death & disappearance 🫣

a final aside before i end this post:

JASON: That's Blüdhaven.

BRUCE: Dick...?

JASON: My God. Is Nightwing there? Imagine that. One son returns from the grave as another enters it... what a fitting ending this has become.

i adore jason's reaction to blüdhaven blowing up in utrh. he's like "my god... 😮 is nightwing there? 🤭 imagine that 😗" HE'S SO SILLYYY. bruce is anguished, having a Time because his exploded son is back from the dead just in time for his other son to also (possibly) die in an explosion—as jason says, "one son returns from the grave as another enters it"—and jason is GIGGLING. i hate him so much <3

[littlefankingdom]

Bruce throwing a batarang at his son's throat makes no sense

When you read a comics, you have to ask yourself "is this in character or does it only serve the plot?", because comics LOVE to disregard a character's personality or morals to make their plot work. If it's the second one, I like to throw it in the trash that isn't canon.

Well, the batarang accident in Under The Red Hood is one of them. Let me explain:

The front of a human throat is a very delicate area of our body. On the back, we have our bones to protect the shit in there (and it is still a fragile area. One hit well placed, and you're dead), but the front is full access to so much stuff. When killing someone in a single strike, one could choose to slice their throat. There's only 2cm between the skin's surface and the principal arteries, a small blade is enough. At least, you can hurt their vocal cords. At worse, you cut the link between the heart, the lungs and the brain (aka, they're dead).

Bruce does not kill, so him targetting the throat with a sharp object is already out of character. It's too risky, he could easily kill them. But to his own son??? That he grieved and who is back from the dead??? Completely crazy.

So why? Why writing Batman throwing a batarang at his son's throat? Here is my theory:

I am 99% sure that you are not supposed to pick a side in Under The Red Hood, that it was intended to be a story where there was no clear solution, neither Jason or Bruce are totally right and both have their own good reasons for their actions and decisions. It's another nail in the coffin to demonstrate that the Joker won that day he killed Jason. Whatever happens, he wins, because the Joker only wants one thing: to mentally break Batman. It's difficult to write a story with such a goal, to be able to make your readers side with both at the same time. You need to balance everyone's actions so noone is too much of a "bad" guy.

However, at this point, Jason has already attacked Tim 2 TIMES. And even if Jason has his reasons to do so, Tim is completely innocent and does not deserve it. He's just a teenager doing his best to help others. Jason has hurt Tim badly, a good guy, and they need to balance this out. And so, they decide to make Bruce throws a batarang at Jason's throat.

It didn't work as intended AT ALL, because a lot of y'all totally forgive Jason's brutal attacks on an innocent teenager, but will not forgive Bruce throwing a batarang to the throat of his son, even if he is a mass murderer and attempted to kill another of his protegees at this point (I'm just pointing out why it wasn't a predictable outcome for the writing team. This is literally a post about how I hate that they made Bruce threw a batarang at Jason's throat, don't come at me)

And in the animated movie adaptation, done years later, Bruce doesn't throw a batarang at Jason's throat, but at his hand holding the gun (this confrontation is so better in the movie. With Jason pointing his gun at the Joker, than at himself, showing that, inside, he doesn't want the Joker dead, he wants his father's attention, he wants him to show that he cares, because Bruce sucks at showing emotions and communation. And, when the building exploses, Bruce throws himself over Jason to protect him, probably the same way he wished he could have all those years ago. Good shit right there) Why make this change? Is it because a batarang to the throat that too gruesome for the format? Or is it because the Titans' Tower didn't happen in the animated universe (RIP Tim, forever in Queer Jail)? Or is it because they have seen how people reacted to the comics and didn't like it?

It's just a theory, but I'm pretty sure I'm right.

Shout out to the fanfic writers who say the batarang hit Jason's hand and ricocheted into his neck, making it an accident. That's possible, Bruce can fuck up a bit with the emotions and everything going on.

[sodaabaa]

stolen tires, chapter seven

jason returns to gotham after the world believed him to be dead. heavily inspired by the film, under the red hood.

tw: mentions of death, angst, self loathing, grief, abuse

It's been three days since Bruce chased me through the docks. By now he's probably piecing things together since he got a blood sample when he threw that batarang. I wanted him to take the batarang back because I wanted him to figure it out, just not when I was in front of him. To be quite honest, I was scared of what he would do when he finds out. Would he try to find me and confront me? I wasn't just going to forgive him for leaving me to die and then forgetting me. When I came back to Gotham and found out Joker was still alive I lost my mind. I wasn't mad at Bruce for not saving me. I've forgiven him for that, I'm mad at him for leaving that pile of evil death worshipping garbage alive! Joker has killed so many people, he's taken so many lives and I thought I would be the last life he would take. I thought Bruce would finally snap and kill Joker for taking me away from him but he didn't! He betrayed me and he betrayed Gotham all because he was scared to do what was necessary. I was not going to let him get away with that.  I heard a rapid knocking at the door snapping me out of my thoughts. I got up to see who it was through the peephole. It was him. It was Bruce.

I opened the door and here's the moment I had been waiting for. I was standing face to face with the man who betrayed me. 

"Do you have time to talk?'' He asked. 

He looked tired, no, he looked remorseful. 

"Come in." Is all I said as I turned around and sat back down on the couch.  He sat in the chair across from me and cleared his throat.

"How are you alive? Why didn't you reach out to me?" He asked.

"Ra's resurrected me. I didn't reach out because I wasn't stable. I rose from the grave Bruce I can't just waltz back into the manor all brand new again." I said, my voice raising slightly towards the end.

"I could've helped you, it's been almost six years Jason." He said.

"I was rabid and dangerous you would've thrown me into Arkham Asylum the second I lashed out! Just like every other criminal you 'deal' with!" I yelled. 

"You know once I was stable enough I wanted to reach out and come back but when I did eventually come back I found out from Roy that Joker was still alive. Why Bruce, why for the love of God is he still alive!?" I shouted, my voice was threatening to break and the tears were trying to break their way through but I wouldn't allow them to.

"Killing Joker wouldn't fix anything, you become the criminal when you cross that line!" He raised his voice. 

"Look Bruce I'm not talking about Dent or Nygma or even Penguin. I'm talking about Joker, he's taken far too many lives and I thought after he killed me you would finally annihilated him but you didn't! I thought you would kill him because he took me from you. I sure as hell would've killed him had he taken you from me!" At this point both of us were standing and yelling, arguing over an event that happened five years ago.

"Jason, I understand why you must hate me but if I crossed that line I would never be able to come back. Losing you meant I lost a son and it broke me but you have to understand." He said sternly.

"No Bruce I don't hate you. I wish I did though, it would make this a whole lot easier. It's hard to hate the person who made you who you are. You just end up hating yourself. It's impossible to hate someone you've loved for so long." I said, shaking my head.

It's true, Bruce was a father to me and no matter how hard I tried to hate him I couldn't bring myself to. My anger, my angst and my pain was all towards the Joker. It was his fault. He's the one who took me away from Bruce. It didn't have to be like this though.

"Jason. Come back to the manor. Be apart of our team again, not as a sidekick but as an equal. We can be father and son again." He said it so genuinely it was hard to resist.

I shook my head and said, "no Bruce, I can't come back if you refuse to clean up the crime properly, I have a team of my own now and I plan on ridding Gotham of filth from the inside out." 

He nodded his head and looked down, "if that's your decision. You're always welcome to visit. Goodbye Jason." 

"Goodbye Bruce." 

[ghostly-fandom-trash]

The Vampire Jason Theory

Spoilers for Batman: Under the Red Hood and the end of Jason's run as Robin

So, my friend and I were joking around, and I came up with an idea.

Jason becomes a vampire right before his supposed death.

After his encounter with the Joker, he spends six months in a grave. Rather than him being dead, he was just adjusting to the transformation and healing from the damage. He then escapes from his grave and goes into a coma for a while cause he’s still healing. He loses his memory for a while because of the shock of both events combined.

The Lazarus pit sped up the healing process and was enough of a shock to bring his mind back.

The killing that follows is because he needs blood and hasn't fully come to terms with it. He is also just an angry person cause of everything that happened though and because of Talia's influence.

He survives the Batarang to the throat not because of plot convenience but because that's not how you kill a vampire.

The least notable point is that he rarely goes out during the day, but even if he did not, all vampires die in sunlight.

[sinvulkt]

Batman’s Downfall (To Stand Alone) by Sinvulkt (Wakare)

Chapter 1 - Jason

@whumptober-archive

There was a new killer in town. He called himself 'Red Hood'. Had he been clownier, Batman would have bet on a new scheme from the Joker part. This new Red Hood was nothing like the mafia boss who fell into acid, however. He was sneaky, precise, skilled, and he never missed. Even odder were his targets. Corrupt politicians, hardened criminals, violent policemen: none of his victims could have been called ’innocents’.

They were victims all the same. Murdered without conviction, their killer acting as judge, jury and executioner without right. For all his crimes however, the ’Red Hood’ remained an elusive presence, taunting yet out of reach. It infuriated the Bat to no end. Gotham was his city.

Soon enough, their paths crossed. Red Hood was crouched on top of a building, assault rifle armed. The gun muzzle was pointed towards a mafia boss responsible for a new kind of drug in Gotham’s streets. Red Hood’s index finger twitched. Batman landed in front of him before he could do more.

They fought.

Red Hood’s moves were familiar in an uncanny way. It brought Batman years back, to the idealistic version of him that hoped the outside world would fill the missing piece of his heart. It brought a bitter taste of ashes and blood to his mouth, as an assassin blade threatened his jaw. “You lost,” a female voice taunted.

The flash of a gun muzzle forced him to focus on the present. Red Hood used guns, not blades. A shot fired, and the pain blooming in his side was all Batman could do to not spiral even deeper into the past. He turned towards the culprit, a growl in his throat. One of the mafia goons stood there, half-stunned from having fired at the Bat. A second shot fired, much closer from Batman's ear, and the goon fell dead.

Batman spun, body faster than thought as he jumped on the threat. The copycat name, the familiar move, the strange non-lethality Red Hood faced him with stopped mattering as a single reality overcame all of his focus. Red Hood used guns. Red Hood killed. Red Hood was a threat to be put into submission, under tight control. 

His batarang flew, breaking through the outer shell of the red helmet. The man behind cursed, attempting to cover the hole with a hand, but Batman didn’t let him. He kicked, punched, and grappled into the threat’s personal space, ready to take the Red Hood down. It took a while before he actually glanced at the broken mask, and the eye it protected. Batman froze. Beyond the helmet was a domino mask encircling a familiar eye.  It hid a face Bruce thought he would never see again.

A malnourished child stood in the batmobile’s shadow, a tire in his hand. He kept his ground against Batman, afraid yet unrelenting to his fear. Batman had taken him back home.

The Red Hood turned tail. By the time Batman remembered to use his grapple and follow, he was gone.

|  • • • 𓋭 𓌹.𓌺 ☤ 𓅨 𓅚 𓁿 𓅓 🦇 𓐟 🦇 𓅓 𓁿 ☗ • • • 𓋭『S』• 🃟 ○

Batman was never late. 

Batman couldn’t afford to be late.

Bruce repeated that thought as he raced towards the source of the explosion. It echoed with each of his steps against Gotham’s dirty concrete, the batmobile long abandoned at a nearby road.

Batman was never late.

He was an ever present shadow, haunting Gotham’s night without any respite. Unkillable, unescapable. Criminals screamed in terror at his sight, filling the air with a charged smell of urine. He was never wrong, never mistaken. He was an infallible God, one for crime to bend forward. 

Batman was a God, but Bruce was just a man. An arrogant man that dared to wear divinity like a cape. A father who recklessly let his son into the front line. 

“Another kid, really?” Gordon had scowled as he was introduced to a fourteen year old Jason in his bright new robin uniform. Barbara’s injury hung heavy between them, an open secret never discussed. 

The Justice League members had uncomfortably shifted at the introduction. Flash cracked a joke about Batman being more chicken than bat, that fell empty into the loaded atmosphere until Jason scoffed and signaled to go home. Bruce could hear their whispers still. Murmurs about child soldiers, long glances at robin’s bruises, comments about Nightwing’s feud with him.

Batman was never late.

Bruce was.

When he finally reached the warehouse, it was to find a cold body among ashes. 

○ 🃟 •『S』𓋭 • • • ☗ 𓁿 𓅓 🦇 𓐟 🦇 𓅓 𓁿 𓅚 𓅨 ☤ 𓌹.𓌺 𓋭 • • • |

Jason was alive.

The thought spun in Bruce’s head, taunting, hopeful, irreal. It danced like the chimney fire Alfred lit during winter, so they could settle together on the couch, silent but for the sound of papers being turned, sometimes interrupted by light snickers escaping Jason’s throat as he read. It shone like a feverish dream, the kind of high fever Robin had gotten after a rainy autumn night, making Batman ache to punch away the sickness. It twisted his heart and tensed his muscles like a Damocles sword ready to fall. Gotham had a knack to kill the good and spare the guilty.

Jason was alive.

Or Batman was under Scarecrow’s fear gas, under Joker’s toxin or under Ivy’s pheromones, or maybe even a mix of all three. It felt like none of them though. The tingle of his fingertip, the pressure of his boots on concrete, the pulse of his blood racing too fast in his veins— it all felt real.

Jason was alive.

The proof was there, undeniable. The eye that had glared at him had been painful in its familiarity. It had narrowed hatefully but bravely, like when the second Robin met Batman's villain gallery for the first time. Because for Jason, Batman was the hero that had never saved him. He was the villain of Robin's story. 

In the light of Red Hood's identity, many incoherences suddenly made sense. His base in the Narrows, his vendetta against the Joker, his personal hate for Batman… So many clues had been spread in front of him the whole time, and yet Batman had been too blind to see them.

Jason was alive.

Who should he tell? Who already knew?

Alfred would guess something was wrong from Bruce's behavior alone. Tim as well, if he wasn’t distracted by another mission and lack of coffee. He might have to come clean to them both, or find an excuse to win time.

Dick was quite occupied in Bludhaven, and didn’t need the distraction. There was no way how the Justice League might react to a known killer before Batman found Red Hood again, so they would have to stay in the dark. It was a shame as many had already come across resurrections before, and their insight might have been useful.

Jason was alive.

Bruce had buried Jason’s body behind the manor. He had thrown the first shovelful himself, barely aware of anything beyond the bleeding gap exploding in his chest. It begged the question of how exactly Jason’s body had disappeared from its grave.

Taken by a sudden desire to check the proof of this new reality, Bruce rushed towards the batmobile and went home. He didn’t answer Alfred's confused inquiries, rather ordering him to bring a shovel and join him at the Wayne cemetery. He didn’t answer Alfred there either. His vision had been reduced to a thin tunnel whose only goal was to dig, dig, dig, until truth’s skeleton laid bare before him, tangible and constant beneath his inquisitive fingers.

Bruce made fast work of the grave. A few dozen minutes in, his shovel hit hard wood. It was several dozens of minutes too much for Bruce’s frenzied mind. As long as the box stayed closed, Red Hood could have been a hallucination. As long as the box stayed closed, Jason was both alive and dead, a Shroedinger’s problem Bruce’s mind chafed to resolve. His whole being tensed in anticipation of the solution. His hands should have shaken too much to open the coffin, but years of training had made them steady, and the wood box opened without complaint. 

It was empty.

A wild breath escaped Bruce’s lungs. Alfred stared at him, brows furrowed in a way that demanded answers, but also respected the time Bruce might need to give them. 

There was little probability his son’s body had walked away by itself. There had been someone digging the coffin, someone doing something to it, until Jason had grown, left behind Robin’s cheerful feathers and embraced the crimson color of death. The pinch of betrayal at someone being in the know before he was however, couldn’t survive long in front of the bittersweet wonder that raced through his veins.

Jason was alive. 

Jason was Red Hood. Red Hood was a killer. 

|  • • • 𓋭 𓌹.𓌺 ☤ 𓅨 𓅚 𓁿 𓅓 🦇 𓐟 🦇 𓅓 𓁿 ☗ • • • 𓋭『S』• 🃟 ○

Batman’s fingers danced over the body, searching frantically for a pulse. The impression of it danced in his mind, fragile yet present like the brush of butterfly wings. It felt warm, regular and powerful. It had been getting stronger every day spent in the manor, as the teen finally got the proper nutrients to grow. Batman’s fingers danced, searching for its memory. They only found death.

He couldn’t stop.

There was a part of Batman that was still running, that was still racing towards the explosion. A part of Batman that was still hoping that despite all odds, he would save the day. He just needed to go faster, he just needed to search further, and the mystery would unravel before him. There could be no break, otherwise something horrible no it can’t be not again no would catch up to him.

He couldn’t stop.

Batman made everything alright. Batman saved everyone. Batman always won.

So he had to be Batman.

He couldn’t stop.

If he was Batman, then surely his son was alive?

He couldn’t-

There must be a pulse-

He-

The floor was spinning. There was blood in his mouth and there was blood on his hands and the floor was spinning. He paid no mind to it, or to the pain beginning to ache in his knees as he frantically probed the delicate body facing him. His cape had settled around them, isolating them from the world and hiding most of the explosion damage from sight. It felt right.

He was Batman. He could fix this.

Jason-

A warm hand stopped his wrist, while another rested on his shoulder, steadying.

○ 🃟 •『S』𓋭 • • • ☗ 𓁿 𓅓 🦇 𓐟 🦇 𓅓 𓁿 𓅚 𓅨 ☤ 𓌹.𓌺 𓋭 • • • |

There was a clap on his shoulder. "Brooding again, B?" Bruce spun to face Dick, a rare smile pulling up his lips. 

"Not today."

It had taken a while for the family to be whole again. Bruce had no idea what trick Alfred had pulled to get Jason to come here, of all people. Things were still tense between them because of the ‘no killing’ Code, and the Red Hood had all but retracted to the Narrows. He didn’t care what trick Alfred had used however. Jason was here, and so was Tim, and Dick, and Steph, and Cass. That was enough. 

It was Christmas after all. A sufficiently grand occasion for Alfred to pull string until the whole family was there, except for Barbara who chose to spend it at the station with her father.

Bruce let Dick guide him into the living room. They were greeted by the usual bat bickering. A predictable consequence to having equally stubborn people gathered in one place. Bruce entered to the sight of Damian trying to stab Tim while shouting about his rat collection, while Jason silently read on the couch. Tim didn’t seem as much bothered by Damian’s attack as he was to Steph perched on a shelf, holding his coffee bowl out of reach. "You already had ten today. I’m not giving it to you." She promptly drank it, provoking a high pitched wail from Tim’s throat. 

It threatened to evolve into full blown chaos as Damian successfully managed to trap Tim in a chokehold, just as the latter lunged at Stephanie, crashing the shelf she was on over Jason. A single cough from the family butler stopped it, instantly bringing the mayhem back to order. Dick gathered the pieces of the fallen coffee bowl while Tim, Damian and Steph silently cooperated to bring the shelf back on straight. Jason settled back on the couch after a glance at the newcomers, pointedly ignoring them (ignoring Bruce).

Dinner was homemade. Alfred had outdone himself tonight. Soon enough, there was not a single crumb of guinea fowl left. The plates shone, dedicatedly cleaned of any juice that had filled them. The meal was far from calm, but it would have been unusual for the family to be silent. It was warm in its chaos, the room filled with jokes, laughs and half-hearted complaints. Bruce barely dared say a word in fear of breaking the peace.

By dessert, he couldn’t swallow a bite more. He glared at the chocolate cake, stomach full but tongue wanting. It disappeared from his sight before he could come to a decision as Jason spirited it away. Bruce turned to glare at the strawberry pie instead, accepting his loss as a fair price to pay for having let his guard down. An instant later a piece of chocolate cake landed on his plate. Bruce startled, looking up. He couldn’t see the culprit, but his identity was obvious. A smile stirred Bruce’s lips as warmth bloomed in his chest. Perhaps Alfred was right, and he should just give Jason some time.

After dinner, they settled on the couch for a movie. There was a short fight as Stephanie stole Damian's usual place, but it was soon resolved as Dick coaxed the latest Robin on his lap. Then, there was a second fight for the movie choice, but Tim argued that it should be Alfred’s turn to choose, since it was Christmas. Alfred obviously did not want to choose, but cornered by what was now revealed to be a whole family plot, settled for a classic Christmas movie. The story was silly, the characters stupid, and the music far too dramatic. It was hard to hear any dialogue over Jason and Stephanie’s criticism, Tim’s and Diaman’s snores, or Dick’s snickers.

Bruce’s eyelids grew heavier and he dozed off, surrounded by his children's warmth.

|  • • • 𓋭 𓌹.𓌺 ☤ 𓅨 𓅚 𓁿 𓅓 🦇 𓐟 🦇 𓅓 𓁿 ☗ • • • 𓋭『S』• 🃟 ○

Batman felt cold. A bone-deep freeze, that spurred even electrons into stopping. It slithered through his veins, paralyzed his nerves, numbed his brain into shocking emptiness. The hand on his shoulder felt burning in comparison.

"Batman," Clark whispered amidst the icy fog. "He is gone."

The fingers gripping Batman’s wrist disappeared and the limb fell limp. The disappearing pillar pushed the frost to reach further. It needled him beneath the nail, battling the words that had been whispered. It tingled him beneath the hairs, hiding the cruel truth from his sight.

Batman had stopped. He had frozen in time. His body felt as far away as Krypton's lost star. His mind had curled into itself in a last desperate attempt to ignore reality. Body moved around him, people spoke both his names, but they failed to reach him.

Mister Freeze spoke of the cold that inhabited him sometimes. He shared insight about his frozen heart, about his icy skin. He talked about the void in his heart, as his loved one remained cold and unresponsive. He preached long monologues about life at 0°C. 

A few months ago, it had seemed freezing to Batman. He had felt compassion for this lost soul, and offered him a second chance; one the villain had abused too many times. Now the water-freezing temperature seemed cool at most. Mister Freeze's loved one was frozen, but there was still a heartbeat beyond her slumber. She could be woken up, brought back to life. There was still hope for Mister Freeze’s void to be filled one day, when he freed her from Morphe’s glacial arms.

Bruce’s void would never be filled.

"Bruce." The burning touch was back on his shoulder. “Bruce, do you hear me?” It slightly pushed him. “You can’t stay here.”

Batman very much wanted to stay here. More people came back, their chatter lost to the deafening rush of a world shattering. It sounded like a mighty tree falling, taking half of the forest with it. Was that how Gepetto felt, when his son left to never return? Jason hated that story. He called Pinocchio an undeserving brat who didn’t know his luck, and Jiminy naive.

“We need to go back,” the annoying voice insisted, this time hauling him upward.

Superman’s nagging slowly mended the thread that connected Batman to reality. He blinked at the fresh night, wondering when the sun had fallen. Would it ever raise again? Of course it would. The world had always been cruel in its perpetual course, never bothering to stop for humans’ petty griefs.

“Bruce?” Now that Batman was awake, Superman was all over him, so close the kryptonian worried face almost touched his skin. The pity disgusted him. It woke the nausea in his body, made roar the fire of his chest. It widened the unnatural gap eating away at his inside. 

Batman pushed Superman away. “I’m fine.”’

He marched towards Jason’s body, barely able to look at it. It felt irreal still; an impossibility in probability’s gears. Carefully, he enveloped his son in his cape, masking away the too pale crimson tainted skin.

Jason was light, too light. Batman’s knees still threatened to buckle under his weight. Traitors. Failure. His staggering was stopped by all-too-familiar fingers.

"I’ve got you."

No you don’t, Bruce wanted to say. You’ll leave, too. 

Superman’s arms wrapped around him, careful to support Batman’s precious cargo. An instant later, they were airborne. Intellectually, Bruce knew Superman was flying. They were going closer to the sun, not away from it. 

In the night’s darkness however, there was no ray to shine on them. As ice ran freely in Bruce’s veins, as time came to a stop and death’s shadow spread over them, it was near impossible to differentiate his inner void from the sky emptiness. By all means, Superman was holding him. And yet…

Bruce was falling.

○ 🃟 •『S』𓋭 • • • ☗ 𓁿 𓅓 🦇 𓐟 🦇 𓅓 𓁿 𓅚 𓅨 ☤ 𓌹.𓌺 𓋭 • • • |

He was content.

|  • • • 𓋭 𓌹.𓌺 ☤ 𓅨 𓅚 𓁿 𓅓 🦇 𓐟 🦇 𓅓 𓁿 ☗ • • • 𓋭『S』• 🃟 ○

He was alone.

[evasive-anon]

@mockerd3light, I love your tags but I'm actually about to do a HEAVY lore drop showing their actual ages for this story and its smaller than you think.

This comic was written in Nov 2005 which means its the original ages for Jason (17/18) and Tim (16) as established in the comics at that time which means Jason was 18 at MOST during this point of the story. My opinion is he was 17 physically the entire storyline but 17/ 18 chronologically 'cause of the 6 months he spent dead.

Here is the timeline determining ages as best as I can tell:

Robin Vol. 2 #116 (July 23, 2003) - Tim's 16th birthday when Bruce gives him the gift of trauma and not being able to trust anyone.

Batman #617 (July 30, 2003) - #618 (August 27, 2003) - Husk storyline, Jason is 17 assuming this is less than 6 months before Batman #619 which seems very likely. (This is when Tim's throat was actually slit. Ok so technically this wasn’t even Jason at release but it was retconned later that Jason was there for part of this so we’re including it though this actually was retconned AFTER Titans Tower was written so really shouldn't be included in the writers intended optics either even though it was chronologically before within the universe.)

Batman #619 (September 24, 2003) - Start of Under the Red Hood, Jason is still 17.

Detective Comics #790 (Jan 7, 2004) - Bruce goes to Jason's grave for his 18th bday. (Using this as the baseline to show Jason was 17 prior to, this occurs during the UtRH storyline so Jason was back in Gotham for his 18th bday.)

Identity Crisis #5 (October 20, 2004) - tells us Tim is 16 years old.

Batman #633 (October 27. 2004) - Steph "dies" following torture at the hands of Black mask. Tim is confirmed to be 16 years old when this happens. I was shocked going back this happened DURING Jason's story arch and they STILL didn't work it in. I get he was a villain and fighting for Steph would have been good guy behavior but damn.

Batman #635 (December 29, 2004) - Jason has the scene with the dufflebag of heads. Jason is 18 chronologically, 17 physically.

Robin Vol. 2 #136 (March 23, 2005) - tells us Tim is still 16.

Teen Titans #29 (December 2005) - couldn't find exact date on this one. Jason is 18 chronologically, 17 physically. Tim is 16.

Batman #649 (January 25, 2006) - Under the Red Hood story ends, batarang incident, Bludhaven gets nuked. Jason is 18 going by his bday but if its been less than 6 months since issue 619 in the dc universe than arguably Jason is physically still 17 because of the time he spent dead, not even touching on the arrested development argument from the catatonic zombie period after his resurrection.

Batman Annual #25 (March 1, 2006) - establishes Jason was dead for 6 months, adds him to the husk storyline, and confirms Jason loves bread. (The last bit is very important.)

52 (July 2006 - July 2007) - this comic run had an issue come out every week for a year. This comic examines A FULL YEAR IN THE LIFE OF THE CHARACTERS. Tim turns 17 during this arch. That means definitely the Under the Red Hood story lasted much less than a year because Tim was 16 before and well after it started. This supports Jason being physically 17 for its entirety.

Jason was aged up in UtRH in retcons that occurred in Red Hood Lost Days (2010) and in the UtRH movie (2010). Both of these released nearly 5 years after the Titans Tower incident so those age changes were not intended to be their canon for Teen Titans #29.

Jason Attacking Tim at Titans Tower

Fanon vs Canon

We've all seen the versions in fanfiction but I'm not so sure everyone's seen the original so if you're one of those batfam fans who doesn't want to read the comics (regardless of reasons) but you are curious about how it actually went this is for you.

What I'm addressing:

What does Jason actually say to Tim during the attack?

Did Jason drug all the other Titans?

Did Jason really wear a Robin costume?

Did Jason slit Tim's throat or call him replacement?

Did Jason actually break Tim's bo staff?

Was Tim crying or scared?

Did Jason write a message on the wall in Tim's blood?

Did Jason's eyes glow green?/Did he follow pit rage mechanics?

Panels and details below. This is a LONG one.

What did Jason actually say to Tim during the attack?

Dialogue in fanfiction during the Titans Tower attack varies based on what kind of fic you're reading but usually its either 'time to clip Replacement's wings' if its staying a beatdown whump 'or oh no precious lil bby why is no one watching you' if its an accidental child acquisition. Not judging either option, but this ain't about them its about the real shit.

Look at these opening lines:

Hey, Tim. I was here first.You're the Red Hood. You've been cleaning up Gotham the easy way. Easy? What do you know about easy, Tim? You had a father that looked after you. You went to a private school, right? You slept in a bed. I slept on the streets, I lived in the alleyways in Gotham. Trying to survive. Until Bruce took me in. I trained as hard as I could. I did whatever he asked. . . at least at first. But it didn't matter. They said I wasn't tough enough to be robin. But today, they say you are. Show me, Tim. Show me what you have that I didn't.

Jason really puts himself out there in all of his dialogue in this encounter, the struggle of having to fight for anything and everything he got in life, even the things that came to everyone else for free, and then being told he wasn't even good enough for the things he fought for.

There's a trope in fanfics that if Jason knew Tim stalked Batman and forced his way into being Robin that it would change how Jason felt about the situation but that's even addressed in this comic:

You were a kid, worried about how Batman was spiraling down into darkness. You spent weeks tracking the dark knight. Solving a mystery no one else could. You discovered who he was behind that mask. Millionaire Bruce Wayne. You were so pleased with yourself, I'm sure that you forgot who you were really dealing with. I know Bruce Wayne. And let me tell you, Tim if someone was trying to find out who Batman really was. If someone was stalking him for weeks. He'd know about it. You can't be that good. I am. He let you find him. And I bet he said the same thing to you as he did to me, didn't he? That you had a talent to make a difference in Gotham. That he needed someone he could trust in war on crime. That you were one of a kind. The light to his darkness. Robin, the Boy Wonder.

Tim saying 'I am' is really such a moment that doesn't come through in text because he is right that he really did do that but I also completely understand why Jason wouldn't believe it.

TBH my favorite part is how done Tim honestly sounds with Jason thoughout all his trauma dumping. Like imagine a grown man who used to work the same part time job as you breaking into your house, dressing up in your work uniform, ranting about how much the job ruined his life while he beats your ass??? God, and he probably had to write a fucking report about it after. RIP Timmy.

What do you want? Do you want to be Robin again? Is that it? You... want to take it away from me? Why in the hell would I ever want that? Don't you get it? When I died no one cared! No one remembered me. Are you completely insane? No one could forget you. I've spent my entire career wearing this mask under your shadow. I had to convince Batman to let me try this. All because he'll never stop blaming himself for what happened to you. You ask me, that's the only reason he hasn't taken you down. He's holding back. But me? No freakin' way. That's the Robin I wanted to see. Still. You do realize the whole idea of training a teenager to fight against something he'll never eradicate is a mistake. It didn't even surprise anyone when I died. When I failed. I failed-- but I'm still beating you. Do you think you're that good now?! Do you really, Tim? Yes.

Tim bashing Jason across the face as he says 'no freakin' way'? *chefs kiss*

Jason drugging the other Titans to knock them out?

Little bit true, Kory was actually just already away from the tower and BB and Cyborg were about to bounce because of the drama going on with Donna's return but Jason like super tazes them and then drugs Raven who he thought already went through enough shit without him knocking her out violently.

Note: Jason says in the text here that he never rolled with Cyborg or BB but like he actually did in some comics so?? The continuity is lie I guess idk.

Did he show up in Red Hood gear or a Robin costume?

Both tbh but he spent most of the time in the Robin costume but bro actually made a stripper rip away version of his Red Hood gear so he could dramatically reveal the Robin costume underneath. I can't believe no one ever includes that in their fics its so fucking funny.

Does he call Tim 'replacement' or slit his throat?

No, this came from a Batman comic with Hush not Teen Titans. That incident takes place in a graveyard not Titans Tower and he calls Tim pretender not replacement.

Does Jason break Tim's staff?

Tragically, no. The bo staff snap would have been iconic. Instead he just takes Tim's staff and beats Tim up with it and breaks stuff. BUT!! He uses it to bust a statue in the TITANS MEMORIAL ROOM which is a place in Titans Tower just for having statues of dead previous titans and Jason is rightfully pissed he didn't get one. Like Tim is correct in saying no one forgot him still but like I would be hurt too if all my friends made cool statues of friends that died and then just left my zombie ass out, like wtf.

Note: I am seriously losing my shit that I have never seen someone bring up the memorial room in a fanfic. That is so much angst material. 😭

Tim crying/ being scared?

Hell no. He's a fucking Robin you know he's being a sassy boy the whole time, even towards the end when he's about done he's still saying he's her and I love Tim for that.

Note: There are a few different times where Tim does a flippy Robin move and then Jason just fucking copies it like flexing that he can do it too, and its just so petty and stupid he's trying so hard to be better than an actual child. 💀I get why in the context of the situation but its still so ridiculous.

Message on the wall in Tim's blood?

TBH I really don't know for sure on this one?? Like its implied that he did but Tim isn't bleeding all that much throughout this beatdown and like we don't see Jason do it just the Titans reacting to seeing it after. It could be Tim's blood, it could be red paint, and it could even be that Jason packed an actual bucket of blood to bring with him to write a message with after he finished. TBH the world is your oyster on this one.

Note: If anyone can find another comic where this event was brought up where they actually clarify it was Tim's blood hmu and I'll update this but I couldn't find any.

Pit rage/ glowing green eyes?

Fanon only at this point in the comics. Jason is seems to be himself and even thinks Tim and his friends are pretty cool at the end, and he's just like reflecting on if he had good friends if he would have turned out better as he leaves.

[pinepickled]

Back at it again to talk about just how much I hate the very concept of Jason 'giving up' on the Joker to return to the batfam.

Like, I see so many people who write meta and fics that claim that the one true solution to the current conflict between Bruce and Jason is for Jason to have a come to Jesus moment about why killing is wrong and to just accept that the Joker will continue to live, doing so for the sole reason of reconciling with Bruce. To me, it just reeks.

I cannot say this enough, but their conflict is not about whether killing is moral or not!!! That is not why Jason just cannot make up with Bruce as things are! Jason was considered one of the only comic book characters to be permanently dead for a reason, his death continues to mean something even after his resurrection for a reason!! The conflict starts in that the man who was supposed to protect him failed to and Jason DIED! The conflict continues because Jason was not avenged at all! His death was meaningless! Completely, utterly, meaningless!

The whole reason Jason goes on his murderquest in Gotham is because he saw newspaper clippings of the Joker, still alive and well, escaping Arkham! He must have thought of all the times Joker escaped while he was just a little kid, how they were constantly rounding the guy up and putting him back, watching the body count that this man has personally caused go up and up and up while they were functionally powerless to stop it. Jason himself says so, directly asking Bruce why he's let the Joker fill entire graveyards with innocent lives!

Under the Red Hood is a well thought out story. It never meant to make the case for whether murder is morally justifiable or not, that was Batman's trauma filled excuse. The reality, as outlined in samiralula01's post, is that Jason's death killed Bruce. He lost his ability to be compassionate, loving, merciful, and more. His little boy was dead. Clinging onto his belief that murder is wrong was just a means to justify to himself why Jason's death would have to go unavenged, and as a direct consequence of this delusion and trauma, which is explicitly said in UTRH, most of Batman's sidekicks have left him! Oracle, Tim, Steph, Cass, everyone except Dick! He's pushed them all away because of this crippling fear of losing them like how he lost Jason, this fear that has made him a colder, less loving man. The fear that turned him from a bringer of justice and hope into a dark shadow.

Jason is right, at the end of the day. He knows the Joker cannot be rehabilitated nor contained, he knows that Bats is just making excuses for himself, and his point of view is further justified by two events: 1, the fact that Barbara was brutalized by the Joker even after Jason died, and 2, that Bludhaven and supposedly Dick was literally NUKED right before Jason went to kill the Joker and instead of running to see if his son was okay, Batman went after Jason.

Batman chose the Joker over his kids not once, not twice, not thrice, but four times.

Jason dying and the Joker living on was the first.

Barbara being tortured to the point of disability was the second.

Dick being nuked and Bats not running to save him was the third.

and Jason having his throat slit by a batarang so Bats could save Joker was the fourth.

UTRH is the story of how Batman does not actually have a solid moral ground to stand on anymore. It displays not only what a broken and defeated man Bruce is, but also implies several times, most notably through the coffin maker's story, that even Bruce believes that Jason is right. He believes that his precious second son deserved to be avenged, not even through bureaucratic or judicial means, but through death. UTRH is a story about Batman, all alone, making huge mistake after huge mistake.

Jason asks Batman to choose: him or me. The Joker or Jason. Your kids or a villain.

Batman chooses.

The Joker puts it the best, after Batman upholds his no-killing rule for the Joker by killing Jason.

"You managed to find a way to win... and everybody still loses!"

[stxleslyds]

I saw your rant about the Red Hood Movie lol (I agree DC keeps hurting my boy Jason) and you said something that interested me, you mentioned that you don’t like it when Jason is drawn with a bat symbol on him but why? Personally I feel that him wearing the bat symbol makes sense because he’s always tried to fit in with the family and it’s his way of connecting with them because he’s never had a family before. He gets along with his other siblings sometimes so I don’t think it’s ooc. I consider ‘bat symbol’ Jason an era of the past and am perfectly fine with his new Red Hood logo it looks sweet (but I wouldn’t be angry if he had the bat symbol on or not in the future). I’m curious what you’re thoughts are!

Hey there Anon, I have to be honest with you, your ask has been proven very difficult to answer, this here is my third draft. I have decided that instead of explaining my thoughts as I was trying to do in my previous drafts, I will now just link you to some of my past posts when I bring up certain points that make me think Jason should have never worn the bat-symbol on his chest.

Just a heads up, I am not a fan of Batman, the “Batfamily”, or Jason being dragged to any Bat-related content, I think it makes his character bland.

In order to make the answer clear to me as well as to anyone who reads this post, I will be separating my thoughts on how I think Jason’s relationship with Bruce has led me to think that he shouldn’t wear a bat-symbol or be involved with any Batman related content, and how Jason’s relationship with his brothers has led me to think that he isn’t part of any Batfamily or has ever been written as someone with true reasons to consider the others his brothers/allies/friends. I will separate each of those two groups in four different sections: pre-New 52, New 52, Rebirth and Infinite Frontier.

First though I would like to say that Jason as the Red Hood wearing a bat-symbol doesn’t make sense to me from the most basic of things, Jason’s vigilante name has nothing to do with Bats. Who wears bat-symbols? Batman, Batwoman, Batgirl, Batwing… All people that who have the “Bat” prefix on their names, nobody else wears a bat-symbol, Nightwing, Robin, Red Robin (Robin), none of them wear it, so why would Red Hood do it? It just makes zero sense. But anyway, that’s just me being annoying, I guess.

Jason and Bruce’s relationship.

First let’s go back in time to when Jason hadn’t died yet. You said that Jason wore the bat-symbol so he could connect with his family because Jason had never had that before, well, I see things differently, Jason had a family and that was his mother, the mother that he cared for when she was sick and the mother that he saw die to drugs after his father was put in jail. He had a family with her. And then he had a family with Bruce when he was Robin, but because Bruce started to neglect and not pay enough attention to him after he realized they weren’t seeing eye to eye in various things, Jason was pushed to act the way he did when he found that his birth mother was alive and “being manipulated by Joker”.

Jason’s father was abusive with his mother and didn’t care for Jason, Bruce wasn’t ready to be a father (even after Dick) and when Jason started to not want to follow his every rule Bruce neglected him, later his birth mother betrayed him and was one of the people involved in Jason’s death.

My point here is that Jason had a family with one person who died to drugs and then every other “family” that he found ended up betraying him or neglecting him. So, I don’t really think that Jason has much trust in the whole concept of “family” at least not when it comes to any of his experiences outside of Catherine Todd.

Now let’s move to the events of Under the Red Hood where Jason comes back to comics. Jason doesn’t hate Bruce then but he felt betrayed by him and felt like Batman’s whole crusade was not good anymore. Jason expressed several times in that book the fact that he didn’t believe Batman was good for Gotham and that he became a better version of Batman, the Red Hood.

Red Hood could do things that Batman didn’t dare do, he was better. So, why on earth would Jason wear a bat-symbol then? Well, Jason never wore a bat-symbol pre-New 52 when he was wearing his Red Hood suit. NEVER.

Jason didn’t care for Dick or Tim, he saw Dick as inferior to him because of Nightwing’s no killing ways and he was completely indifferent to Tim, his only interactions with him were when he cut his throat a little bit in Batman: Hush and when he called him “the pretender”.

So, Jason wasn’t looking for family he just wanted Bruce to kill Joker for him, and Bruce didn’t. When things got complicated and Jason realized that Bruce was too much of a coward he improvised, he told Batman that in order to stop him from killing the Joker Batman would have to shoot him (Jason). Batman didn’t use the gun, but he did save the Joker by throwing a batarang at Jason’s throat. When Joker detonated the explosives in the building they were in Bruce once again saved Joker from the rubble and didn’t look much for Jason.

That my dead Anon is the first time Bruce betrays Jason in such a big way that made me think that Jason would have never wanted to interact with Bruce in a good way. I will repeat it now, Bruce SAVED the Joker instead of letting Jason KILL the Joker.

After Under the Red Hood we got to see that Jason was alive and well in Green Arrow #69-72, where he made an appearance, there I can say with a 100% certainty that Jason hated both Batman and Bruce. He actively did things that pissed Bruce off and was searching for conflict with the man.

Jason and Bruce don’t interact much after all that because at some point Bruce “died” and that’s where Battle for the Cowl comes in. There is where we see one of the craziest Jason characterizations, there Jason took on the mantle of Batman because Gotham needed Batman (what? Red Hood was created to replace Batman!). But in that book Jason actually harmed both his brothers and left them for dead. In that book we also see a horrible message that Bruce left for Jason where Bruce told him that “Jason was broken and he tried to fix him” and that “Jason was my (Bruce’s) biggest failure”. I don’t know about you Anon, but if my father saw me that way, I would be packing my bags. And Jason didn’t look like he was looking to connect with his “family”.

After all that we don’t see Jason until Batman and Robin vol.1, where we see the weirdest characterization of Red Hood, this Red Hood hates Batman and would kill anyone just because. Jason had zero need to connect with his family there.

I just want to remind you here that Jason never wore a Batman symbol until here in his Red Hood suits, he only wore the symbol when he “was” Batman and that was OOC.

So now I welcome you to the New 52, where Jason wears a bat-symbol on his Red Hood suit for the first time. I HATE New 52 Jason Anon; you will find zero love for him here. That man wore a bat-symbol on his chest even though he didn’t believe in Batman’s ways and while he had this internal conflict about whether he hated or not Bruce. This Jason gave up a memory from his Robin years with Batman because he didn’t care enough to keep it, then he was seen acting like an ass towards Bruce and Barbara in the “Court of Owls” event.

But this whole shit show was written by Lobdell and one day he decided that Jason cared about what Bruce thought and let us know that maybe Jason secretly admired Bruce (in the post I will link here! I talk about what happened in those issues among other things). That story would be followed by Batman and Robin vol.2 #20, or what I like to call “the second time Bruce betrayed Jason in an even more painful way”. I am not going to explain what happened there, but I will like here! the post where I talked about what happened there and why I think that Jason should have never been on good terms with Bruce again from that moment on.

In that post I also discuss how much of an abusive and manipulative person and father, Bruce has and can be. He is a disgusting human being and Jason called him out about it but DC loves to write Bruce being abusive and then swiping it under the rug, Jason being on good terms with Bruce or wearing a bat-symbol on his chest is just horrifying after witnessing that issue, and it normalized Bruce’s abusive behaviour when issues later the same writer (Tomasi) had Jason interact with Bruce as if nothing had happened.

After that Jason was seen interacting with Bruce when the latter lost his memory, Jason even hugged Bruce there, it was OOC, and like I said it normalized Bruce’s abusive behaviour or at the very least made it look as something of no real importance.

Now, we are entering the Rebirth era of Bruce and Jason’s relationship, Jason was still wearing that fucking bat-symbol on his chest and this time around Jason even made a deal where he wouldn’t kill anyone while in Gotham (RHatO vol.1 #6), Lobdell even wrote them as being all buddy-buddy after the mess that was the New 52, absolutely disgusting.

Jason didn’t interact with Bruce in Rebirth that much, in fact the next time that Batman made a big appearance in the Red Hood book was in Red Hood and the Outlaws vol.2 #25, yeah, the issue where Batman beats the living shit out of Jason twice because he thought that Jason had killed Penguin. Father of the year, Jason wasn’t dying to be part of Bruce’s family, he was just brutally beat to be part of it. Bruce also ripped the vat-symbol off of Jason’s chest and told him that he didn’t “belong” with him or in Gotham any more. The AUDACITY of that bitch, can you believe? Jason belongs in Gotham as much if not more than Bruce.

Later when Red Hood and the Outlaws became Red Hood Outlaw, we saw Bruce and Jason interact again when Bruce informed Jason of Roy’s death, hugged him and also told him that he was still not allowed in Gotham, what a swell guy that Batman lad!

After that Batman went after Jason Todd when Jason came back to Gotham (without King Batman’s permission) and told the world that Jason Todd was alive and well and taking over Penguin’s Casino. Jason actually threatened Batman with revealing too much information about himself to the world (meaning, Jason threatened Bruce with revealing his secret identity) and that was that. Jason and Bruce only saw each other a few times when DC needed to make money with one of their boring ass events like Joker War and Bruce was shown “welcoming” Jason to Gotham in Red Hood Outlaw #51 or #52, I don’t remember but either way, it was absolutely hilarious and made zero sense. I am sorry, but after Bruce being a manipulative, abusive and all around a horrible person, I don’t feel anything except rage when they make them interact as if they cared for one another.

Shit hits the fan in Infinite Frontier with Urban Legends: Cheer, once again instead of explaining what happens there, I will just link you to the six posts I made about that mini. Part one, Part two, Part three, Part four, Part five and Part six.

Here I will only talk about the comeback of the bat-symbol in Jason’s life. Like you said Jason used (still has in some books) his own logo on his chest after Bruce ripped off the bat-symbol and told him to fuck off. That Red Hood logo was still done with the bat-symbol in mind and I just thought that it was ugly, like, there is no need for a logo if you are going to give him an ugly one along an even uglier suit. But that’s not what matter here, what matters is that the bat-symbol IS making a comeback because at the end of UL: Cheer, Bruce gives Jason a brand new (ugly) suit that has the bat-symbol again. That gift comes as a slap to the face after the disaster that was that book, from every point of view that mini should have not come out to the public. But it did because it forced the “Batfamily” down our throats through Bruce deciding to welcome Jason back to the “family” by giving him a suit with HIS logo on the Red Hood suit that kinda looks to me like Bruce saying “glad that I own you too as well”. The whole bat-symbol thing doesn’t sit right with him and sadly I don’t see it like a “Jason era of the past”, I see it like a metaphorical jail for Jason’s character, he is not free to be the character that he is supposed to be (a perfect opposite to Batman that shows that duality MUST exist in Gotham), and instead all we get is another Batman wannabe that is just as boring as the Batman himself.

Jason and his brother’s relationship.

The funny ha-ha thing with this is that we are not supposed to see Dick, Jason, Tim and Damian as four brothers (and to be honest I have never seen them four as brothers, as far as I see it, Jason hasn’t had a brother since before died). DC always makes it clear that Damian is Bruce’s only son so yeah, there is a big misunderstanding there within DC themselves, they have no problem with trying to sell us their absolutely nasty version of a family but at the same time they refuse to acknowledge any one except for Damian as Bruce’s son.

Even though I don’t necessarily believe that Jason sees his brothers as such I still call them that way because they were/are all Bruce’s children.

But this is not about Bruce so let me talk about Jason’s interactions with his brothers in the pre-New 52 era. So, as I said earlier in this post Jason didn’t think Dick was a big deal in UtRH because *just* like Batman Dick never killed and his way didn’t work or whatever (if only Jason knew what Dick did), and with Tim, Jason was mostly indifferent, he only hurt him a little bit in Batman: Hush (for the little bit that he took Clayface’s place) and then he referred to him as “the pretender”. Then we jump to the events of Teen Titans for Tim and Nightwing for Dick. In Teen Titans #29 Jason went to Titans Tower and beat the living hell out of Tim just because, now that thing was OOC and written by Geoff Johns but it existed and it further proves that DC writes this “family” through violence every time they can and then they just hope we forget it happened. With Dick, well, there was the Brothers in Blood arc where Jason dressed up as Nightwing and killed people in his name, he did it because he wanted to “bond” with Dick because he thought that Dick had killed Blockbuster, the whole arc was a mess and I can tell you this about it, Jason wanted to bond for all the wrong reasons and Dick was written as actually preferring Jason to be dead.

Then we jump right into Battle for the Cowl and even though (once again) this Jason was extremely OOC he did try to kill both Damian and Tim and fought Dick too, so, so far, I am not seeing Jason wanting to connect with his brothers, it was more like him going “be robin to my weird ass version of Batman or suffer!”. It was just weird.

Then there was Batman and Robin vol.1, where Jason’s Red Hood was just a blood thirsty and crazy and he didn’t want to be part of any family. I might not like Jason being written as part of the family but what this book had going on was not it.

Now, get ready because it is New 52 time again and this is messier than his relationship with Bruce in this timeline. The most recognizable relationship (or lack of thereof) was Jason and Dick. Lobdell just let us know one thing about what Jason thought of Dick and that was HATE. Jason HATED Dick, why, you ask? Oh, um, no one really knows, the only panel we were shown as “proof” of why Jason hated Dick was when Jason was acting like a little bitch when Dick was teaching him stuff during patrol (RHatO vol.1 #6). But, yes, Jason “had” (apparently) a good relationship with Tim. Yeah, no gracias, listen, Jason and Tim having brunch for two pages (RHatO vol.1 #8) isn’t making me believe that Jason cares or sees Tim in a good light, just throwing a brunch between them isn’t proof of them being the best of brothers but then again Lobdell loved giving Jason every character trait and relationship that Dick once had (examples: Tim, Roy and Kory). That brunch didn’t mean much because later on during the Death of the Family event Jason almost killed Tim (Teen Titans #16) to “save” his father from Joker (talk about bad writing). Jason and Damian had a very weird and forced “bonding” moment in that same event (you can include Damian to the relationships that Lobdell borrowed from Dick), all of the sudden Jason cared for Damian and he was acting all brotherly, because “they worked together” as different people in Batman Incorporated #4, this weird interaction between Jason and Damian (it can only be called weird because it looked out of place and you cannot change my mind, even Jason thinks it is weird in those panels) happened in RHatO vol.1 #17. In that same issue is where Jason tells Dick that he was trash because he didn’t want to say hi to Kory and kinda tells him that Dick “underestimates” Kory, listen, New Teen Titans isn’t a book that I enjoy reading most of the time but Lobdell needs to do some re-reading himself, Dick isn’t trash to Kory, Lobdell was trash to Kory. Anyway, at that point in time, Jason had a bad relationship with Dick, a secret admiration for Bruce, and a weird ass relationship with Tim and Damian.

Before we go on let me tell you what I think about the whole New 52 dynamic. Jason was used as a replacement of Dick Grayson. Dick was the one that had good relationships with his brothers and father, Jason up until the start of New 52 didn’t care for Tim or Damian, hated Bruce and kinda had a soft spot for Dick. In the New 52 the tables were turned. Jason’s relationship with Tim was never developed in paper, they for some reason were friends only when they stood together like they did in Robin War and Batman and Robin Eternal, there was never development or a reason as to why they “were in good terms”, they just *were*. The whole Jason and Damian thing didn’t last long because Damian died and then the whole mess of Batman and Robin #20 happened with Bruce.

Ahh, Grayson #12, the time when Jason and Tim’s last braincell died, they threw so much shit Dick’s way and for nothing. I will forever be mad at this, they really thought that Dick of all people faked his death, and because Bruce was conveniently amnesiac nobody dared say “hey, wasn’t it Bruce the one that told us that Dick was dead?”, seems to me like New 52 Jason and Tim can go be friends with that one braincell all by themselves. This is not family; this is people teaming up with whoever so DC can sell another weird comic event. Also at that time Damian was alive and Jason couldn’t have cared less about him being there (maybe it was because Jason was there when Damian was resurrected? Who knows?).

And now we jump to Rebirth because I hate the New 52. Tim was nowhere to be seen. Jason just forgot Tim existed and it wasn’t until the Red Hood Outlaw era in which we saw Jason interact with Damian again. What we did see, was a reconciliation between Jason and Dick, Jason was written as acting completely different in RHatO Annual #1, Jason respected Dick and his work and also said that Dick “had been a better brother than he had given him credit for”. Then Jason appeared once in Nightwing and they talked about Dick’s new girlfriend. And that was that for a long while.

As I said, during the RHO era Jason and Damian shared a couple of issues in the Teen Titans run, I have talked about these issues before in two posts (Post 1 and Post 2) but I will summarize what happened there here quickly.

Apparently, Jason and Damian had been working together in secret (never shown in actual comics), Jason gave Damian targets and intel of people for Damian to put in his secret prison for villains. When Damian and the Titans go after a target something goes wrong and the Titans end up hurt. Damian goes after Jason without a second thought and accuses him of betraying him, a physical and emotional fight ensues and it ends with Jason promising that if he sees Damian again, he will kill him. That’s all for Jason and Damian being on good terms in Rebirth.

But it all changes in Infinite Frontier, in August of 2021 we see the *real* comeback of the “Batfamily” in Robin #5. Dick, Damian, Jason, Tim and Stephanie appear in this issue but the only things of essence happen between Jason and Damian and Dick and Damian. Only one of them made sense, and it wasn’t Jason and Damian.

Jason was there to bring Damian back to Bruce. Listen, the last time Jason and Damian were seen together they were actively hiding their work from Batman and then they ended promising to kill each other, and now Jason came fresh out of Urban Legends: Cheer #6 wanting Damian to go back to Bruce. Damian tricks Jason into a hug, but surprise! it wasn’t a hug, Damian electrocuted Jason to get him of his back.

And that’s all.

-

I understand that there have been moments where Jason has been written as wanting to connect to one or two people from the “family” but its never developed or based on something of true essence. You might consider it actually strong family connections but I just don’t see it that way.

Jason wearing a bat-symbol after the abuse and manipulation that Bruce put him through in new 52 onwards is just dumb to me. And given Red Hood’s origin, Jason wearing a bat-symbol in the first place is absurd and goes against everything that he once was.

Jason officially started wearing the bat-symbol again in Detective Comic's back up story written by Rosenberg and will continue to use it in the ongoing book Task Force Z.

The bat-symbol is annoying but Rosenberg writes Jason beautifully so yeah, I am biased there...

We just have different opinions on the matter Anon, but don't take this post as an attack towards you and what you think, it is just that I just don't like Jason being involved with anything Batman.

I hope you have a fantastic week Anon!

[sapphyreblayze]

I know I don’t post on here that much these days, but I have Jason Todd related thoughts, and need to preserve them in a concise format, which twitter isn’t very good for. Though it’s less a thought and more a theory.

Jason died again at the end of Under the Red Hood, and I have proof.

So, I’ve had this as a headcanon for a while because, well, let’s look at the sequence of events at the end of the UTRH comic; Bruce slits Jason’s throat with the batarang, and then the building blows up. There’s no way someone should be able to survive that. But that’s not really proof is it? It’s a comic after all, people survive incredible things all the time, and the only way we know someone is dead is by seeing them dead. But beyond that, let’s look at the final page in the trade paperback, when the building blows, which is what really committed me to this headcanon.

Notice that particle effect? That’s the same effect we see in Batman Annual #25 when Jason is resurrected in coffin; therefore, you could very easily theorise that Jason is being resurrected once more here, hence the repetition. But I was still reluctant to categorise this as any more than a headcanon; until I read through the original monthly version of Batman #650, which includes an extra page not included in the trade paperback. This page.

Bruce, modern Bruce in his all-black outfit, on his knees, mourning Jason, surrounded by echoes of other Bruce’s from different timelines (this happened when Infinite Crisis was happening btw). That isn’t meant to be Bruce in Ethiopia (we can see 80s Bruce in the background in his grey and blue outfit). That’s Bruce in the rubble on Crime Alley.

And look at that textbox, ‘We’ve been here before’.

How else is one supposed to read that? Clearly, the intention here was that Jason died once more, Bruce failed him once more, and was reliving that grief all over again. Furthermore, that swirly Infinite Crisis void offers a possible explanation behind his second resurrection; in Batman Annual #25 the narrator says that Jason was never supposed to die in Ethiopia and his resurrection was a cosmic correction of sorts. But what if the Superboy Prime Reality Punch over-corrected? Jason was never meant to die, so now he never can.

That latter bit is just my speculation, trying to offer an explanation based on the evidence, but as for the main idea of Jason dying again at the end of UTRH? I think it’s well past the point of mere speculation. Because I say again, tell me, how else are you supposed to interpret that final page? What else could it be implying? And the fact that it was cut from the trade paperback speaks volumes. Because UTRH ended up not being a one-and-done, and Jason ended up becoming a recurring character, they wanted to bury his second death and pretend it never happened. And since the One Year Later timeskip happened, it was very easy to do just that. They never touched on the fallout so just... ignore that it happened.

But it clearly did, and I’m in pain. Bruce and Jason’s relationship is just a sea of tragedy, isn’t it? Death follows them everywhere, and they keep losing each other, both literally and metaphorically.

[britcision]

Ember is totally there and also under the vague impression that it’s a Big Brothers/Big Sisters program

(It kinda is)

She accordingly dubs herself Big Sister and takes the teen villains on alternating wholesome and criminal trips, sometimes it’s music practice with the band, sometimes it’s speed-hot-wiring vehicles with Johnny and Kitty

(Hero vehicles are triple points)

Arguments about whether or not she’s actually the oldest (she’s about 16 but died decades ago) tend to devolve into if she’s a teen at all but Ember herself doesn’t need to sleep or pause for breath so she always wins

Everyone’s suspicious when Red Hood shows up, he’s a villain and totally not a teen, until Jason Todd presents his birth certificate

He is 19 and Batman just tried to cut his throat with a batarang, he needs some friends pls

Nightwing’s visits step up to weekly, Jazz’s flirting takes a pause while she drives him off her new teammate, mass hysteria

Despite Danny's best efforts, no matter how much time past, Amity Park refused to see Phantom as a hero.

Sure, there were pockets of support, particularly among teens, but most of the town blames Phantom for the property damage, saying if he didn't fight the ghosts then it wouldn't be so bad, to that time he got mind controlled by Freakshow and "attacked" the mayor. It wears him down. It wears Tucker and Sam down. Jazz can only try to support them all.

Then one day, a member of the Justice League visits. Someone minor, and kinda a jerk... maybe a Wonder Twin? Zan? Whatever. They don't investigate; they don't look deeper. They listen to the town folks and declare the ghost hunters, Red Huntress and the Fentons, to be the official heroes of the town.

Worse? Danny Phantom is officially considered a villain to the Justice League. Tuck hacks into the Watchtower and confirms that they have a file (a heavily inaccurate file) about how to defeat Phantom.

Danny doesn't think he can do this anymore.

A few weeks later, a young villain escapes into Amity and demands (begs) that Danny help them escape from the hero after them. No idea who, I can't find a lot of info on teen villains in DC, so let's fudge some ages and make it Kyd Wyckyd from the Teen Titans cartoon. Danny agrees, because to hell with the Justice Losers, and they defeat the hero, becoming friends in the process. Kyd confesses that they became a villain after being ostracized bc of how they look, and they've been trying to avoid villain organizations because HIVE was abusive, but it's really hard to be a villain alone bc of all the heroes.

Sam gets an idea. Tucker agrees with the idea. Jazz is just happy they'll end up making friends.

The next day, the Teen Villain Alliance is formed, ready to assist with any teenage illegal shenanigans their allies might get into.

Some notes:

It's created to be a healthier option for teen "villains" to connect with others and support each other.

It's more important that this is for Teens rather than Villains. They're tired of adult villains taking advantage of them. The TVA would rather ally with a teen vigilante than with an adult villain.

Again, no idea who the teen villains are, but Klarion is definitely here. He leaves the Light for the chaos of the TVA. Maybe Ember is there too?

Timeline wise, this is around when Tim is still Robin, but Damien has arrived at Wayne Manor.

This is because, when it comes time to try to infiltrate the TVA, they'll have a convenient child-assassin who has none of the monitors of a teen hero that Phantom immediately picks up on.

Damien, who at this point has been abandoned by his mother, dismissed and scolded by his father, and has had no success at carving his own place in the family, jumps at the chance. He is then surrounded by peers who don't insult him or try to change his behavior (too much; jazz is trying to help him find healthier methods of expressing himself). He... might not want to continue being a spy.

Danny, Sam, Tuck, and Jazz are the founding members.

Danny reinvents himself as the High Prince of the Infinite, Prince Phantom Dark. He got kingship from fighting Pariah Dark, but since he's still alive, he's only a prince. He steals the last name Dark as an intimidation tatic against those in the know; only Danny would have the balls to claim family with Pariah.

Sam works as a powerless villain, but she might no be powerless? Either way, Danny gives her a bunch of repurposed Fenton tech, and she buys the rest with her parents credit card. She does NOT care if that's traced back to the Mansons. She would choose something goth, maybe something spider related or even bat?

I love Pharaoh Tucker, so I think he should get magic powers? Since pharaohs of old were considered the balance between the real and the divine. He's still a tech guy, now he's a tech and magic guy.

Jazz isn't really a villain, more of a team mom who's planning on using everyone's psyche's as her thesis paper. You know what, that's her callsign, she's Psyche. Sometimes she flirts with Nightwing.

[scaryscarecrows]

Will Trade Soup for Intel

Potential Gotham Knights ‘verse. For those who did not see the trailer: Bruce is dead (pfft, suuuuure he is), Jim Gordon is dead (Jim, no!), the Court of Owls appears (this is gonna be bad), Batgirl and Robins 1-3 have guardianship of Gotham. For this piece: Penguin is also dead. Dove has his operation. And the flu. :p

***

Tim’s not sure where he thought Jason was going to take him. Honestly, because it’s Jason, he was sort of thinking, ‘seedy hole in the wall where retired hitmen go’. Or something. Or maybe an orphanage, or an under-the-bridge camp; the Alley Kids don’t throw bottles and needles at him, unlike the others. They demand rides.

(Yeah, it’s funny but also scary to see the Red Hood, known for his duffle bag of heads, giving a little girl a piggyback ride.)

This is not one of those places. This is some apartment building in midtown with a doorman and everything. And, y’know, it’s daytime, which...they don’t operate in the daytime that much unless they’re undercover, and they don’t appear to be. Jason told Tim to dress like a real boy and stick his domino on in the elevator, but he’s wearing what he always does; jeans, hoodie, heavy boots. And he’s carrying a brown bag that smells like soup. No helmet in sight, and Tim knows he won’t wear a domino now. They bug the scar*, he says.

“Where are we?”

“To see an old friend. I’m out of other ideas.”

“What, are they a conspiracy professor or something?”

“No.”

The doorman waves them through and they wait for an empty elevator. Jason presses the third-floor button and settles in, adjusting the bag in his arms. For all the crap they give...gave...Bruce about theatrics, Jason’s no better. He lives for building the suspense. Tim had nearly murdered him again for that stupid monk joke. Asshole. Ten minutes from his life, and for that? Humph.

A cotton face mask whaps him in the chest while he’s adjusting his domino and he frowns.

“What.”

“You’re fragile, and she’s got the flu, which is why we’re here in the daytime. I’m basically immune after my, um, upgrade points got cashed in, but you are a Victorian maiden who'll probably turn it into tuberculosis and die and I can’t deal with Dick after that.”

Huh.

…

Whatever. You lose one spleen…

He puts the mask on, too, making sure Jason sees his glower, just as the elevator dings to a halt.

Tim starts to suspect they’re not invited, exactly, when Jason shoves the bag at him and drops down to pick the lock. Though he does knock and call, “Don’t get up!”, so.

“There. Give me that before you spill something...hey, Miss Marquis! I brought soup!”

…

Jason couldn’t have just told him this, why?

There’s furious coughing in the other room, followed by movement, and a minute later Dove shuffles out, wrapped in a blanket and wearing what appear to be bunny slippers. She looks terrible.

“For the tenth time, I don’t care how immune you think you are, you’re going to get sick and I can take care of myself.”

“Haven’t gotten sick yet,” Jason says cheerfully. “‘Sides, it’s, like, partly a bribe.”

Dove doesn’t look convinced. Tim’s not convinced, either. Jason, when left to his own devices, can and will out-mother-hen Dick. He’s just usually scarier when he does it. More like Alfred.

Before any further argument can happen, Dove starts coughing again and winds up clutching the doorframe with one hand and holding the other up to keep Jason at bay.

“Thought you were gonna take Theraflu,” Jason says sulkily. Dove reaches up to pinch the bridge of her nose.

“I will take it if I need it, Hood.” Tim sympathizes. Theraflu tastes like sadness. At least Robitussin is nice. “I promise this isn’t my first flu, I am fine. ” This is not a battle she’ll win. Tim knows. Tim has tried and failed. Jason had loomed at him and told him, oh-so-nicely, that he would take the Theraflu or that it would breach his defenses. “What do you want.”

Jason holds up the bag.

“Fridge or bowl?”

“Fridge, please.”

“Tea?”

“If I say yes, will you settle down?”

“For now.”

She sighs and totters over to an armchair.

“Fine.”

“What kind.”

“I’ve got some sort of zinger tea in there, that would be very nice.”

Jason vanishes into the kitchen. Dove sinks into her chair, pulling her blanket tighter around her shoulders, and waves at the couch.

“Siddown, Robin.”

“Sorry we broke in,” he says, because Jason won’t. Dove just shakes her head.

“This isn’t the first time or the last time,” she says. “At least you used the door...if you need a drink or somethin’, help yourself.”

Jason comes back, steaming mug in his hands.

“I’ll get it,” he says. “Bird boy here shouldn’t touch the kitchen.”

Slander.

“Nightwing’s worse.”

“Still. Here y’go.”

“Thanks, honey.” Dove leans up to take it before shooing him back. “Now. Why are you here.”

Jason settles onto the couch next to Tim and leans forward, worrying at his lower lip.

“This is going to sound crazy.”

“Well, that’s interesting.”

“Do you know anything about the Court of Owls?”

Dove snorts, coughs, and takes a sip of her tea.

“What?”

“You know…beware the court of owls that watches all the time, ruling Gotham from a shadowed perch behind granite and lime. They watch you at your hearth, they watch you in your bed. Speak not a whispered word of them--”

“Or they’ll send the Talon for your head, I know the rhyme.” She takes another sip. “It’s a scary story to keep kids in line, you know that.”

“We thought so, but.” He shrugs. “”Had a run-in with...something...last night that, um. Looked a little dead. But not dead like me, dead like...I don’t know. It was like it wasn’t human anymore. Or ever. I don’t know.”

Well, that’s a surprise. Tim wonders if Jason just straight-up admitted what happened or if Dove got it out of him or from some other source.

“Croc’s not human, either, kid.”

“No. This thing...I didn’t...I broke its neck and it fucking twisted it back into place.”

Dove frowns.

“You’re sure?”

“Uh-huh. And before that I emptied literally twelve bullets into this thing and it didn’t even flinch. I’m telling you, something wasn’t right and it was wearing an owl mask.”

Tim nods.

“There have been four murders committed with daggers that have owl insignias on them,” he says. “We think these two things are related.”

“Owl daggers?”

“Uh-huh.”

“Can I see one?”

“I brought a picture. The daggers are police evidence.”

“Like you boys didn’t borrow one,” she says, but sits up when Jason comes over with the phone. “I’ve seen something like this before.”

Well, that was unexpected.

“When?”

“Years ago, now. Penguin had one that he got from who-knows-where. It went missing one night-we chalked it up to Catwoman and let it go-but we did have people offer to buy it a few times. Generous offers, too.”

“He wouldn’t sell?” Odd. Penguin loved money almost as much as his pet birds. “Can you remember who offered?”

“Rich men, you know the type. They like...oddities.”

Tim does know the type. During Dick’s stint as Batman, he’d stumbled upon an auction house that specialized in some nasty things, including a very particular crowbar.

(Jason, as far as Tim knows, has no idea about this.)

“Did he say anything about it?”

“No. He put it in his office, in a little case, and honestly, I sort of figured someone had tried to kill him with it. He was funny about things like that.”

That’s an understatement. Penguin had been very proud of the bottle in his eye, among other things.

Dove starts coughing again and ends up setting her tea on the end table. Jason’s halfway over there when the coughs turn to sputters and she manages to wheeze out a, “Fine. M’fine.”

“This is why you should take Theraflu.”

“Honey…”

“I can make--”

“Hon.” He shuts up. “I’m okay. It’s just the flu, give me another week and I’ll be back to normal.” She takes a shuddery breath and picks up her tea again. “I promise. Now. I don’t.” Another shuddery breath, but no coughing this time. “I don’t know anything else off the top of my head, but. Little fuzzy.” She tugs at her blanket until it’s closed around her neck, just under her chin. “If anything comes up, I’ll let you know-ow- shit --”

The coughs don’t stop this time and she winds up bent nearly double, arms curled up to, presumably, brace her ribs. Ouch. When they finally wane, she’s red-faced and wheezing and looking fairly well miserable. Tim’s just about to nudge Jason when she stands up, clutching her mug in white, shaky fingers, and says, “I am going back to bed. Lock up behind yourselves.”

“Can we do anything?”

“No, hon. But thanks. You boys.” A finger goes up and she sort of... hics ...but nothing happens. “You boys stay safe. Don’t do anything. Anything reckless.”

Reckless? Humph. They’re not reckless. Adventurous, is Tim’s preferred term. So one time he leapt off a building knowing his grappler wasn’t working. Dick caught him, like he knew he would. It was leap or be eaten, and being eaten was by far the uglier choice.

“Reckless? Us?” Jason mock-gasps. “Thanks. Soup’s in the fridge. Want me to make you a Thera--”

“ No. Thank you.”

THE END

*I’m debating on whether or not that scar is Joker-related (could be an aborted Glasgow?) OR Batarang-caused: maybe Bruce hit his face rather than his throat in this version of UtRH. Either way, ow.

[here-be-hyper-fixations]

Drabble #2: Penny for Your Thoughts

Selina Kyle and Jason Todd, genfic

It had been nearly two months since Selina had broken off the engagement with Bruce Wayne. So far, she had managed to avoid running into him or his kids, but tonight it seems her luck had run dry. As she stood on a rooftop scoping out a possible target, she heard the sound of very deliberate footsteps behind her; they were evenly spaced and unhurried, and Selina contemplated leaving before whatever Bat decided to start a conversation. Just when she was getting ready to jump, the familiar sound of a click and hiss lurched her mind backward.

“Penny for your thoughts?”

Selina turned to face the Red Hood, helmet off and now moving to sit on the ledge next to her. His face was turned forward to the streets, observing, but not actively searching.

“Don’t worry…I’m the only vigilante this side a’the city tonight.”

Selina huffed, rolling her shoulders back into a calm, confident position. It was probably pointless by now, but she had an image to maintain and she didn’t want the Hood of all people seeing a weak point.

“I don’t know, darlin, I would’ve thought I’d be worth a little more than a penny…but that depends on what you wanna know…”

“What made ya end it with the Bat?”

And just like that all of the her carefully controlled composure was gone.

“Are you here to congratulate me?” She hissed.

“Nope,” he chuckled with an exaggerated pop on the p, “Just curious.”

“Hasn’t anyone ever told you curiosity killed the cat?”

“Ironic considering you’re the cat here. Indulge me…please.”

“Gotham needs a Batman, and I…I can’t be responsible for the death of a hero…” Selina’s shoulders dropped, her hands intertwined in front of her.

The seconds ticked by until their somber silence was interrupted by Jason’s laughter. It was loud and boisterous but felt like a bomb of bitter hurt shattering whatever illusions of understanding existed between them. The Hood’s head dropped into his hands and his shaking shoulders stilled.

“S’that so…” he breathed.

“Really Hoodie, I would’a thought you’d be happy about this. We didn’t exactly get along during your Robin days.”

“No, I suppose we didn’t. This whole-”, Jason made a loose gesture with his hand, trying to find the right words, “-situation…is just a bit funny t’me s’all.”

“How do you mean?” Selina’s brow furrowed as she studied the man next to her. He was oddly resigned, with a small thin smile stretched across his lips.

“When I first came back to this hellhole, I tried to make Batman choose between me and the Joker. I told’em that either he killed that bastard once and for all…or I would. All I got was a batarang to the neck and a building on top o’me when the charges went off…”

Jason turned towards her, green blue eyes completely and utterly empty.

“He left me there.”

“I assume you have a reason for telling me this.” Selina was sweating under his gaze, completely unsure of what point he was trying to make. The pit in her stomach was slowly sinking, and she tried to swallow around the lump in her throat. Mercifully, his eyes turned back to the city.

“The Joker wasn’t the end goal, not really. I wanted him to choose – Batman, or Bruce Wayne? My mentor, or my father? I suppose I shouldn’t’a expected any different.”

Selina bristled.

“You know why he couldn’t compromise,” she spat, “this city needs-”

“I needed my dad, Selina,” his voice was steady but his body was trembling, “we all needed our dad – Nightwing, Red Robin, the Demon-spawn, Black Girl, Signal…we needed him and he chose Batman. Every. Single. Time.”

“Until me…”

“Don’t get me wrong, I’m glad – I’m glad he finally chose Bruce over the Bat, but it hurts that all of us – his fucking kids – weren’t worth enough for him, but you were.”

“So, what now? You want me to go running back to him so you can have your happy little family fantasy come true? I’m sorry he hurt you, I seriously am, but don’t put his actions on me.”

“I gave up on family a long time ago,” Jason’s voice steadied as he stood from the ledge, “I’m sorry…I didn’t come here to fight, and I don’t blame ya for this shit, believe me I don’t – I was just jealous and wanted t’vent.”

His hand reached into his leather jacket, pulling out a small coin and flicking it towards her.

“Penny for your thoughts an’all that.”

Selina caught the coin and ran her thumb across its embossed surface.

“This is a quarter though.”

“Well consider it thanks for listenin’ t’my ramblings. Have a good night Cat Lady.”

“It’s Catwoman, you brat.”

He didn’t respond, just grinned at her, flipped off the building, and disappeared into the maze of buildings and city streets.