#(this post is not about how it's Bad To Like Ships With Age Gaps. don't put words in my mouth. i just happen to see WaBe's as not that big)

[burinazar]

I know of two people for whom Wazubela is an ick due to their age or backstory interpretations of the characters, and I can't judge them (and hopefully they don't judge me in turn), but I also think the backstory of when and how Waz and Be met is entirely up to the audience, and people are hopefully aware all interpretations they have there are personal. there's no canonical reason to think they met in a specific way or at a specific age, other than "they met before the main story", "they met each other before either met vueko", and "they're both older than vueko", which are all pretty inflexible facts. everything else is up to our hallucinations

[raven-at-the-writing-desk]

To add onto that Malleus popularity speculation, I think another major reason why that you never mentioned is the simple fact that characters of Malleus' archetype are just more popular in general in the west amongst working age women.

There are plenty of adult novel containing male supernatural love interests. Fae and vampire romance novels are still extremely popular amongst adult readers. A Court of Thorns and Roses is technically an ADULT novel, NOT YA. Even m|m supernatural stories even fall into this category with Stolas/Blitz from Helluva Boss being an extremely popular over here. That pairing is from an adult animated show. Stolas shares a lot of similarities with Malleus.

Hell, even if you step into western contemporary romance novels, the male love interest tends to be more brooding and angsty with flawed leads. Everything from classic literature like Jane Eyre to modern shit like anything Colleen Hoover writes. (Don't get it twisted. I'm NOT saying that Malleus is anything like those leads. Just using those very popular example of brooding bad boy love interests in adult contemporary fiction in the west.)

Meanwhile in East Asia, those sorts of leads tend to be geared towards teenagers. Working age women want a more stable, realistic love interest that would take care of them like Trey.

Westerners seem to prefer more complex, intense romantic relationships, where the stakes feel higher and the emotional payoff is more significant. They will naturally write Trey off as a "big brother" character instead of seeing him as a romantic lead material thanks to being more used to seeing characters like Malleus as the love interest in stories.

I could be way off base, since I'm not Asian and far from being an expert on Japanese culture, but that's my two cents based on my observations. This is also based on broad generalizations. Neither culture is a monolith.

[Referencing this post and (more specifically!) my speculation here!]

Oh, for sure 💀 I made a post a while ago talking about how Malleus (especially from the yumejoshi/self-shipping perspective) reminds me a lot of the new "Shadow Daddy" archetype that has emerged in the romantasy genre. I mean, just look at how many of the Shadow Daddy traits Malleus ticks off:

is a nonhuman being (usually fae)

500 yrs old (or at least several hundred years old or a significant age gap between the Shadow Daddy love interest and typically female main character)

looks young and hot/conventionally attractive despite the age

is OP (usually with shadow/night/darkness related magic)

is royalty or in some kind of position of power

dark hair and/or skin (sometimes both)

“morally grey” and/or has issues (you can fix him)

brooding

looks or is rumored to be intimidating but is actually lonely and misunderstood, with a heart of gold

animalistic in some manner (usually with bat/raven/dragon-like wings)

has a tattoo or some kind of bodily markings (Malleus has the scales under his hair; you could also count the OB facial markings I guess)

Outside of romantasy novels geared towards older teens (18-19) and adults, the west seems to really love brooding bad boys as love interests in a lot of its media. Something else I noticed is that the "good guys" or the "boy next door" types like Trey tend to be "the other man" in heterosexual love triangles, which miiight also explain why he gets looked over in the western fandom. (I discussed some of my own observations, which are similar to the points mentioned here, in the posts linked above.)

I wouldn’texactly phrase it like westerners preferring "more complex, intense romantic relationships [... with higher stakes and more significant emotional payoff]", as that unintentionally implies that there has to be brooding or angst in order for the story or character arc to be "good". I feel a lot of it actually depends on the execution rather than the tropes present. For example, I've seen many "Shadow Daddies" that exist purely for wish fulfillment rather than emotional or story/character complexity (which, to be clear, there's nothing wrong with if this is the kind of thing you enjoy!). Wholesome or "normal" romances also have the capacity to be complex, intense, high-stakes, and emotionally significant too! Again, it all depends on the quality of writing and what one's personal preferences are. You'll find outliers regardless of culture as well--as the asker has stated, no culture is a monolith!

[princess-charlie-of-hell]

Why does the fandom acts like Charlastor/Radiobelle is the worst ship in existence?

(This post is going to be pro Charlastor and contains anti Radioapple if you have a problem with it please either stop reading or at least stay respectful)

This is something which annoys me for a long time because the hate this ship gets is so over exaggerated in my opinion.

I am not saying that you are not allowed to dislike or hate this ship because i am myself someone who dislikes a ship sometimes for the silliest reason. But every time i see "what is the worst Hazbin Hotel and why is it Charlastor" or anything similar to it, I just can't take it serious anymore

This is why I am making this post to argue against some points which people always make against Radiobelle

"Alastor and Charlie have a Father-Daughter bond"

I already made a post why I dislike this whole trope but i write it here again because some people think this is Canon despite Alastor just acting like her father to annoy Lucifer. Because we only see Alastor acting like this in Dad beats dad and never before or after this again and Vivziepop even said it.

"Shipping Charlie and Alastor is WLW erasure and Charlie is with Vaggie"

This seems to be one of the main reason people are against Radiobelle but i think that something like this shouldn't be a problem because 1. Charlie is canonically Bi and so there shouldn't be a problem shipping her with a man and 2. Just because something is shipped in Fanon doesn't mean that the Canon ship is no longer Canon. Chaggie is Canon and I am happy about it because I love this ship too.

"That ship would be Toxic"

I have bad news to tell people but let's face it almost all Alastor ships are somehow toxic except maybe Radiorose. Alastor is not a good person and he would manipulate probably every person he mainly gets ship it like Lucifer or Vox, so I find it stupid to complain about this with only Charlastor

"The Age gap between the two are too huge, Alastor is too old for her"

This always make me roll my eyes because 1. Both are adults so who cares and 2. Charlie is canonically older than Alastor. For me this is always fandoms confusing naivity with being Childish.

"Alastor is canonically Ace"

Ace people can have romantic relationship too but if you don't feel comfortable with shipping him with others I won't say anything against it, I just dislike it when it gets comments it under fan art of any ship posts

This last part is just my opinion but I can't help thinking that this ship would be much more popular and wouldn't get that much hate if Charlie were a man or Alastor a woman. Image this whole scene

but with a male Charlie or any other male character. The fandom would have gone crazy and say how Alastor tried to seduce Charlie or tag it with "toxic yaoi". I already saw this whole scene redraw with Lucifer instead of Charlie and it was posted as Radioapple. I even think that if Alastor would be a woman she would be called a ace lesbian because Alastor in Canon dislikes men.

(Here starts the main anti Radioapple part so be warned)

Like I said I saw a pair scene redraw with Lucifer instead of Charlie with scenes between Charlie and Alastor and they often got posted under Radioapple and the fans loved it, so I wonder that Maybe people actually see romantic undertones between Charlie and Alastor but they just dislike Radiobelle or maybe just M/F ships so they just take Lucifer and swap him with Charlie so that they can have a M/M version

This post got longer than expected ups.

This was mostly a post for me to vent because I see sometimes people saying Charlastor is as bad as V*angel and it drives me crazy. Radiobelle isn't everyone cups of tea and that is OK but sometimes I see someone write under Charlie/Alastor fanart "I am just going to image it is Radioapple" or that what I hate at most when somebody makes fanchildren of them and shippers of radioapple use them for their ship and it makes my blood boil because for me this so disrespectful to the artist who put time and work in them.

[myfandomrealitea]

good lord i think I just spent an hour going through the proship tag and just....what have I even been believing my entire fandom life? like I JUST watched my friends try their fucking hardest to get a fic taken down on ao3 .... the site where I thought we all knew was FOUNDED on principles that I thought we all knew...

I mean. I'm not into most dark tropes. I dont like age gaps and the such but .... I don't think people should be harassed for it either? I'm just a little lost at why suddenly thinking people on the internet shouldn't get death threats over fictional characters or let's be real, RPF that is STILL imaginary, suddenly makes me....a bad person?

suddenly being struck by the revelation that . technically I fall into this category that most people hate. like my favorite ship lately can only be defined as toxic. I'm into toxic yaoi. and that's cool right. it's fine it's whatever I like what I like nobody gets to tell me what I should do. but then it's also like. wow there are people who think I should die for--not being queer and brown like the usual--but over a stupid fucking ship???

I dunno man. I'm just thinking about how no matter what anyone likes no one should be harassed and threatened for it bc a) we're all human and b) why do you like so much unnecessary drama. yeah.

word vomit but the tldr is I think I am experiencing what they call a shift(?)

This previous post of mine may be helpful to you. It details the origins of proshipping, the true definitions, and the mentality behind it. Your current mentality about creating free of consequence (in terms of harassment and similar things) is more or less proshipping summed up to a T. Proshipping is not inherently nor specifically about 'dark content.' It very much applies to bland, vanilla, typical ships and content also.

A lot of people like to get wrapped up in the 'dark content' side of proshipping, which often taken away from the true meaning behind proshipping. It becomes less about defending creating as a whole and more about a constant vicious cycle of defending specific types of creating and content. Antis in particular like to trap you in that cycle because they hope to wear you down and reinforce that proshipping is 'only' about that content while they try to trip you up with it.

Take your down. Do your own research and exploration. Come to your own conclusions. Nobody can force you into an understanding and nobody can or should force you to use specific labels.

[child-of-helios]

hello. I've a rather stupid question. I've only read the books once, as a kid, and I don't understand why people hate calpyso x leo. whys it so bad? why does everyone seems to hate it on here?

xxx,

eurydice

First of all, this is my first ever ask, I've made it mother :D Secondly, I'd gladly explain! Though please note that it really has been a good while since I've read the books too, so my memory is kinda foggy :] Warnings for: Slight mentions (but not too much) of rape, pedophilia and mental illness (oh boy this is a tough one)

So, I have made a post abt this before, but it was written in a fit of rage so not my proudest moment (but my most popular post, oops). Anyways, I feel that the hate towards Calypso x Leo is because of a few reasons. 1. It simply didn't get enough development to feel worth it imo. Similar to Jason x Piper, I felt like there wasn't enough there to warrant a canon ship. There is also the fact that personally, I thought that their dynamic was more of a familial or that of siblings, which made me uncomfortable. I would've much rather have them be friends. 2. The uncomfortable age gap. It feels very weird because while yes, Calypso was depicted as a teenager, she is thousands upon thousands of years old. The fact that she fell in love with a literal child is incredibly weird. It was weird enough with Percy, but at least they didn't end up dating. With Leo though, she did end up dating him and the age gap feels very odd. Its even weirder knowing she had a relationship with Odysseus, who by that point was a pretty old dude so she was probably very mature and an adult (though she doesn't act like it). 3. Calypso is kinda a rapist. In the Odyssey myth, she forces Odysseus (a married man) to sleep with her. I'm sorry, but I can't support any relationship involving a rapist unless its rapist x prison cell. It makes me uncomfortable because she could very well take advantage of Leo, a mentally ill teenager with self-esteem issues. 4. Her toxic treatment of Leo. Calypso was very pissed when Leo arrived on her island, rightfully so after what she had gone through, but even then her treatment of his was outright cruel, especially compared to that of Percy and Odysseus. She made him sleep outside, exposing him to the elements after he got flung through the air and ended up on her island, which must've caused some damage. Then after they started dating, I still felt uncomfortable reading about the two, because their dynamic just didn't work, and I don't recall her apologizing to him for her treatment of him. 5. Leo's arc was thrown away. I think the worst of all, is how this impacted Leo's character. He should've had an arc where he learnt to love himself, but because of Calypso he didn't. I think the moral was supposed to be: 'even if you're mentally ill or have problems, you still deserve love!' but it came over more as: 'ignore your issues and get all your love from someone else.' Isn't it more important for kids to learn about self-love? And as an extra: what could've been. I think that Leo shouldn't have gone back for Calypso, that that ship shouldn't have happened. I prefer him going back to Echo and them learning about self-love together as buddies (and maybe evolving into more than that). Echo was stuck in an abusive relationship with the Narcissist, so I think it would a good arc for them both. I also think that if you really wanted a romance, Jason x Leo would've been much better. We know that Rick can write good gay romances, we know that Piper turns out to be a lesbian, so why not make Jason and Leo gay? I think it would add much more to the tragedy of Jason's death, but that's for another post (and this one is getting too long already oops). In conclusion, I think Caleo is bad for many reasons, but especially because it didn't have enough time to develop and the dynamic was simply too creepy for me to get invested in. Sorry for the super long post- Have a lovely day :D

[multifandumbmeg]

Ok. Came across my first pro Five and Lila post so FiveLila shippers let's talk. If you ship Five and Lila, that's totally fine! Both CHARACTERS are legal adults.

What they did on the show was disgusting.

And yes, it was also poor writing. You should be angry too. Let's discuss.

Aidan Gallagher is BARELY an adult. He was, what, at most 19 during filming? Ritu Arya is 35. She is a grown woman. They met filming season 2. Late 2019. Aidan Gallagher was freshly 16 years old. She has watched him grow up from his early teens to now, bareeeely a legal adult. For that reason, they CLEARLY do not have any physical/sexual/romantic chemistry, because Ritu Arya isn't a groomer creep. She looks visibly disgusted all while acting her ass off. She plays the lines well but the kissing was so unbelievably uncomfortable to watch and I KNOW it was because SHE FELT UNCOMFORTABLE DOING IT. She remembers this BOY as like a five foot two kid in the prep school uniform, right? It's gross for the same reason dating your teacher even after you've graduated is very gross and makes everyone give you the side-eye. Both Ritu and David (Lila and Diego) have made it clear they were very against this choice. It is obvious this was entirely pushed by Steve Blackman.

Now before you get pissy and scroll away, before I explain why it is in this case bad writing, let me also remind you:

It is fine to like this ship conceptually. It is fine to write fanfiction. There is nothing wrong with that. I totally get shipping their characters based on their personalities and life experiences. BUT

What they did with this season with the canon was simply an awful mess. Morally, it was just plain wrong. The age gap alone made it inappropriate. But it was also bad. Writing. As many have pointed out, it was horrifically out of character for Five. Lila's character was written wildly inconsistently this season. Neither of them would have done that to Diego. Five would simply never have made a move. No matter how badly he wanted to, I don't believe he would have even if she made the move. Not for decades. At least. Add to this the entire experience was completely unneccessary and made no sense to begin with- Lila's suggestion that they go back and save original Ben would mean she never met the Brellies and thus never met Diego, still believed her evil mother, and her children didn't exist. Lila os brash, but generally not stupid, but even if she overlooked that fact are you telling me Five, Mr. Know-it-all who LIVES to be the smartest person in the room and always has, wouldn't have even said something then?? Before they left?! NO. He would NEVER have agreed to go on that mission before even considering the consequences. It was essentially an entire episode of character assasination for both of them. If you like either Lila OR Five at all, you should HATE this arc. Five not considering fallout, falling for his brother's wife despite most of the fandom believing he was aroace the whole time, choosing to betray his brother by physically having an affair with said wife, giving up on solving the apocalypse or finding his family again (his whole mission for the entire series, his entire character), finding a way out and then HIDING IT FOR HALF A YEAR FOR SELFISH REASONS?!?! Five... Hargreeves?? Are we talking about the same person??? Inconsistency is poor writing, plain and simple. Lila, for her part, was traumatized by her mother and spent all of season three grappling with her pregnancy. She had the opportunity, and made discussions with Diego about abortion. She ultimately CHOSE to have a child and ASKED to have a family WITH him. So to have her and Diego both spend this season only saying negative things about their family and act like they regret having the kids they VERY THOUGHTFULLY CHOSE TO HAVE is just plain shitty. They could have done a thoughtful plotline about how hard parenting is when you're breaking generational cycles, but instead they absolutely abandoned it and just had them cause more. Lila runs off to do something that logically will erase her children immediately and then when she finds out Five figured out the way back she mentions Diego and her kids and I found myself yelling at the screen-

"Oh, you care about your kids now?? Since when?!" Diego and Lila literally dump their kids off with a relative in the start of episode 2 and only even mention them again to complain after that. Never once do either of them say one nice thing about their children. Never do they say they love their children. We don't see any shots in the montage of Five and Lila of Lila being UNDERSTANDABLY DEVASTATED and being comforted by Five. It's not only completely inconsistent, it's not just that it makes all the parties involved look shittier for it, it's that they didn't even do it well.

What I'm saying is-

It shouldn't have happened in the final shortened season of this tv show. There was no way they could make that happen and be in any way a fulfilling ending for any of those characters, and for that reason EVERYONE should be pissed about it.

You could write a fic where Diego and Lila's marriage slowly breaks down (or hell maybe they never even got married) but it happens amicably and they don't fucking hate their children in the process and Five doesn't have an affair with Lila, but is there in the aftermath instead. You can write thoughtful, well-executed 200,000 fics drawing out the family drama of this slow burn and Diego and Five coming to terms. Or you could write a trashy smut fic where they all cheat on each other and are assholes and nothing makes sense, basically just like the show did. That's great! Both are totally fine and make absolute sense and are gratifying under the right circumstances to the right audience. Because that's fanfiction, and you've got time.

This was the end of a show we all fucking loved. This was a horrible ending that left everyone dead and unhappy at the moment of their death. A show that was supposed to be about overcoming familial dysfunction, not drowning in it.

So yes, we're angry about Five and Lila. Not because your ship is bad or wrong. Because it should not have happened under these circumstances.

[damnfandomproblems]

6218:

GOD some people are really fucking controlling over other people's ocs. It reminds me of your viral post about "IF I DON'T LIKE HOW YOU WRITE YOUR OCS I SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO STEAL THEM!1!!1!!!ONE!"

I've had my own experiences with that, unfortunately.

I have a m/f ship between two ocs and someone said I was being homophobic by not shipping the male with the female's brother instead. And when I doubled down and said I didn't care and wasn't going to change it for them, they responded to that by writing a thing where the female was a horrendous bitch and physically abused the male to the point that he decided to fuck off because he couldn't handle it and was so traumatized by the ordeal that he swore off dating women and started dating the brother. Then told everyone it was "canon" now and they "fixed" my writing. Like how fucking childish is that? They got reprimanded for it thankfully because the other people in that server had sense, but wtf. And then before getting banned, they took it up a notch by trying to come up with reasons why m/f was secretly "problematic". "Oh she killed someone once [in self-defense], so she's a murderer!" "There's a height and age gap [of two adults], so it's pedophilia!" "Male is really into Female's brother, so this is technically incest!", etc.

And then someone else in another place got mad because he had the hots for one of my female villains and she didn't get a redemption arc. Sorry, but unrepentant villains exist, too, and not all villains get/deserve a redemption arc. She murdered children. She cannibalized people. She did all kinds of fucked up stuff and wasn't sorry about any of it. But he thinks she deserved one all for the sole reason of "she's so sexy though!"

Like, if you hate how I write MY OCS that much, then maybe stop interacting with me? If everything I write pisses you off and sends you into a spiraling rage you need to get the fuck off my page and go back to your fantasy land where m/f relationships aren't real and villains don't exist and because neither exist, no living person or AI even knows what those are to write them. Like seriously get that stick out of your ass. Go write your own ocs or a story where 100% of the population is homosexual and no one ever does anything bad. If that's what you're into, more power to you I guess. But stop shitting on other artists and writers for not writing what YOU want them to write. Most writers write for themselves and write what THEY'RE into.

(don't post if off Anon, please)

Posting as a response to a previous problem.

I'm pretty sure the viral post your talking about came from this blog, too.

[violet-moonstone]

waiting for the day that people in a certain fandom learn that you can express a dislike for a ship without insulting people who ship it.

insinuating that someone is mentally unstable for shipping something you don't like trivializes mental illness, and it's ableist as hell to use that as an insult (funny how people's so-called progressiveness goes out the window in fandom discourse)

anyway I'm talking about some specific posts i just saw but honestly this applies to fandoms in general

the people playing pretend with fictional characters can't hurt you, nor are they trying to. but you going out of your way to make sure that everyone knows you're good person because you play pretend in the correct, good, wholesome way makes being in fandom spaces fucking exhausting

more ranting under the cut

The ship in question isn't even one of those "illegal" ones; it's an age gap between an adult and another adult. Would this gap make me wary IRL? Yeah...but these are not real people. What's more, there are real couples with significant age gaps and you cannot convince me that all of them are inherently toxic.

The fact that the ship is enemies to lovers also made them upset (because of implications of abuse) but people are unfortunately not good at separating what people like to explore in fan works from what people think is healthy in the real world.

I'm always annoyed when I'm just trying to look for my ships in peace and come across those kinds of posts -- not because it annoys me that there are people who don't like it, but because the way they do it is so irritating. There's no real conversation or critique going on. It's just "eww that's so yucky! Anyone who likes this is sick!"

They are absolutely not interested in discussing complex (and sure, even unhealthy) relationships between characters in an in-depth way, because it's icky. And anything icky must be avoided at all costs because if you think about the icky thing for too long that must mean that you are actually bad person.

Anyway, turn your brain off and only consume good, wholesome things. Prove to the fandom gods that you are holy and unproblematic.

[zvtara-was-never-canon]

I saw this one post tagged under Aang deserved better and Katara deserved better. As someone who loves both characters. I hate how people mischaracterize them while saying they supposedly deserved better, when really they’re just salty about shipping when it comes down to it.

Here’s the post:

https://www.tumblr.com/empressofthesunslittlecorner/748486832898048000/a-rant-about-aang-and-byrke?source=share

"What does a 14-year-old want with a 12-year-old?" Same thing a 16-year-old wants with a 14-year-old, aka maybe a romantic relationship, maybe just a hook up, maybe just friendship, maybe nothing at all. You can't put people in a box like that. When I was 14 I wouldn't have cared if the person who had a crush on me was too years younger, two years older, or the exact same, all that would matter would be "Do I like them back or not?" Plenty of girls my age were the same, others would be caught dead with someone younger, and others thought that it was weird to date anyone older.

"It's just creepy, no matter the gender" *proceeds to ship Zutara, that has the same age gap, but the guy is older*

"It would have been better if they got together at like 22 and 20" Why? It's a two year agep gap, not twenty - why age them up to adulthood? 12-years-old is right around the time most people either start having crushes, or already have been having crushes for a while, it's not weird. And again, why it Zutara acceptable with Karata being fourteen, but Aang needs to be at least twenty for it to not be creepy, even though the only thing that changed was the gender of the younger character?

"I haven't read the comics" good for you, don't do it, they're terrible, every character was ruined and Yang should be as hated by the fandom as Shyamalan.

"But what I saw on tumblr" Ah yes, because you can always trust that people online are not biased, mistaken, or full on lying. Just ask the leader writer, Aaron Ehasz, about all the times he had to say "No, zutara was never going to be a thing, please stop sharing that fake interview in which people claim I said otherwise"

"Legend of Korra" Korra is also terrible, that's why the audience for it got so bad that Nick just dumped the final season online without a care.

"He kissed her TWICE, TWICE, without her consent and never said sorry for this" Nope, it was ONE poorly timed kiss that he immediately felt sorry for. Katara is seen blushing and thinking on that kiss during The Invasion because she enjoyed that kiss.

"He thinks he deserves her love because he is the Avatar (the hero) and that's how it be" He thinks the girl that got offended when he said he didn't want to kiss her, that has flirted with constantly, and has consensually kissed twice already is at the very least a potential girlfriend. When he is made to question if that's really the case, he full on ASKS HER if she only thinks of him as a brother and he simply misinterpreted her signs, to which she openly says THAT WAS NOT THE CASE. He explicitly mentions "After we kissed, I thought that meant we were together." He never, ever, ever said "I'm the Avatar, therefore you have to like me." Just because AN ACTOR in a play about THE AVATAR called her "the Avatar's girl" instead of "Aang's girl" doesn't mean he thinks his role means more than her feelings - again, he literally went to talk with her to clear things out. This is not how an entitled person behaves.

"He replaced the love for his people with Katara" No, he did not. The Guru explicitly said "Your love for them lives on the form of new love." When he saw Gyatso's dead body, Katara saying she and Sokka were his new family was what made Aang calm down. Yes, Aang is in love with her, but that moment was much more about general, familial love than romantic love. Honoring the people you lost by valluing your connection to the ones that are still in your life is not placing a burden on them, or being obsessed with them, or thinking that being loved by them will fix your trauma.

"He needed to let go of her" He did. Twice. First in Ba Sing Se, which led to him being killed and KATARA bringing back to life, then again in "The Awakening", in which he just up and leaves to focus on his mission and Katara is heartbroken because SHE DOES NOT WANT TO BE LET GO OF!

"Aang could still love Katara, he just needed to stop to put her on a pestal!" He never put her on a pedestal. He knew she was flawed and would openly disagree and even argue with her at times. Cherishing someone is not the same as idealizing them.

"Book three was... bad, and so was the finale" No, it wasn't. It had it's issues and it is the weakest season, but it is still good. Most of the problems were caused by poor pacing due to them sticking to three seasons instead of four. Aang's feelings for Katara were not a problem to be fixed, because the "entitlement" you complain about doesn't exist.

"Aang is a self-insert of Bryke" Bryan and Mike have repeatedly said that they're like Aang AND ZUKO, in the sense that one is goofy and the other is grumpy. By that logic, Zuko is also a self-insert, therefore shipping him with Katara would also be "bad."

"They act like Zuko is a bad boy instead of a dork" Zuko is a dork with social anxiety, who spent two and half seasons SUPPORTING GENOCIDE. "Bad boy" doesn't even BEGIN to describe him.

"No normal 14-year-old girl would date a 12-year-old and if she did call the police on her ass!" Go touch grass, you're insane, two children having feelings for each other is not pedophilia.

"Avatar was only amazing because of writers like Aaron Ehasz" Ehasz himself disagrees with you, and a lot of the "good changes" you made were decided by/along with Bryke.

"A lot of writer wanted also Zutara to happen and not Kataang" Ah, I see you DID read that fake interview. The writers were all on board with Kataang, even though some of them did like Zutara AS WELL. They're not mutually exclusive, you know?

"If I remember right season 3 was so rushed and lacking because the movie-who-shall-not-be-named was in production" You're remembering made up bullshit just right. Fans keep repeating that, and even I once wrongfully believed that in the past, but it's not true. The movie was going to happen regardless of when the show ended, and Bryke genuinely only wanted three seasons instead of four. Bad idea? Yes, but nothing to do with Shyamalan.

"Aang would find other airbenders" If that's true, I'm glad it was scrapped, THE LAST AIRBENDER needs to be THE LAST AIRBENDER for the show's premise and name to make any sense. Korra was also heavily criticized for a later seasons plot point of random people just magically becoming airbenders because it cheapens the gravity of the genocide by going "Lol, fooled ya! They're still running around!"

"Broodmare to repopulate" Three children is not exactly repopulating a nation, you should have paid more attention in math class.

"I'm a big fan of the theoretical season four" You being a fan of a thing that doesn't exist is surely on brand for a zutarian.

"Also, people who make fun of their own fans because they ship a pairing themselves not like are the worst!" Scream the zutarian that is doing exactly that. If you can complain about ships and call people creeps for it, you can take people pointing out your ship is just a figment of your imagination. Either suck it up or change your behavior so you're no longer a hypocrite.

[diamondkat]

I read a post where someone was complaining about radiodust shippers hating on huskerdust. It involved radiodust fans using arguments that huskerdust shouldn't be a thing because of because Angel Dust sexually harassed Husk and being upset that huskerdust was canon instead of radiodust. As a multi-shipper whose first Alastor ship was radiodust, my first reaction was to dismiss this as false. Firstly, because that argument against huskerdust is nonsense in and of itself but would be especially hypocritical coming from a radiodust fan. Secondly, it was my belief that most people, if not everyone, understood that if you shipped Alastor you did it with the knowledge that it was never going to be canon. I am ambivalent towards the ship myself but I haven't seen any radiodust fan arguing against the ship. However, I always try to keep in mind that my experiences are not universal so I went and checked the tags for radiodust and anti-huskerdust.

I am happy to report that most anti-Huskerdust stuff is by antis whose opinions don't matter. There are also more terrible takes regarding the relationship than just the one that the poster mentioned like someone talking about age gaps ignoring how many years they have lived in hell in addition to when they died. However, I will admit I did find a radiodust fan who was hating on the ship and another shipper who complained about radioapple fans attacking their radiorose fanfic. The conclusion that I reached was that there are annoying fans who make it their entire thing to hate on the things that other fans enjoy, but they are not the majority. Most fans are likely just making and sharing things that they enjoy. If you encounter one of those fans in the wild trying to insult you or make fun of a ship you like, feel free to block them and continue enjoying fandom stuff. For example, when I first joined the Hellverse fandom I couldn't enjoy Helluva Boss content without being subjected to some of the worst bad faith takes. I blocked the helluva boss critical tag and immediately stopped having such problems. Let's all continue to enjoy the fandom without making things uncomfortable for others.

[thetimelordbatgirl]

If the allegations Lily are throwing out about Josh actually dating Ink Rose are true, I don't think she realizes she just makes herself look bad for two reasons:

*She literally claims she didn't say anything for this long because Josh had her address and threatened her with basically doxxing...but Lily's moved since this grooming/dating is claimed to have taken place and could have said something as soon as she moved, because Josh wouldn't have the new address to use against her...but she didn't, meaning she's now looking like a bystander at best and an enabler at worst with her 'jokingly' shipping the two publicly on tumblr at the time, including being fine with the age gap where she references an age gap story she wrote. *Throughout her posts on the matter, all she's done is talk about how she was a victim in the situation, but never once has she mentioned or discussed Ink Rose, the actual victim in this situation if the allegations are true. All we're heard about is Poor Lily and conveniently ANOTHER friendship that ended badly with Lily as the victim of someone else who has ended ties with her in a bad way. Like, you'd think if she cares about the victims of these situations, she'd discuss them and not herself, but...

[momentomori24]

Long-ass fandom rant because I need to scream into the void to find a reason to live let's gooooo

[For context I wrote most of this last friday which I thought was good to mention so the timeline makes a bit more sense. I really held off on this one XD Welp, let's start this trainwreck.]

Ok, I know I have other long posts I should be paying attention to (*cough* Keiji's shady shenanigans rant *cough*) among other probably more important things, but quickly wanna get this off my chest because it's kinda started to bug me and add even more concerns about the yttd fandom than I already have. This is specifically going to be about soushin-- yeah, yeah, I know-- but also bleed into something more... broad. Or broader. Idk, I'm a Tumblr user not a grammar teacher.

While browsing through Twitter I've been noticing a little spike in popularity for yttd with more fans and soushin shippers emerging as well. Which is cool, the game deserves all the praise and popularity it can get. And as someone whose been here for years, I'm glad that the fandom is slowly and steadily grown more accepting of soushin compared to the attitude around it way back when. There's been some genuinely really cool stuff that really does the ship justice from a lot of talented artist and writers that I absolutely love (will link some later), but something I've also been seeing a lot of from fans is what I can only describe as a "sanitisation resurgence" (but not really. kinda). A week or two ago on Twitter I stumbled across some soushin discourse where some people were sharing the sentiment that "if soushin end up being related and/or have a big age gap the ship is ruined". That they can only be two years apart max or else Nankidai has "fumbled them".

And the only response to that I had is "what". Like, how is that a deal breaker to you lot? How did you even get into the ship without accepting that those things could very likely end up being canon? How are you here and not ready to ship them no matter what's revealed about them after everything we've learned about them? Midori and Shin possibly being related was always on the table, and Midori potentially having already been an adult when Shin was in high school was always a very real possibility ever since we learned that he was never actually a student at his school. This is literally what soushin shippers got harassed by antis for years ago. Soushin is "problematic", and that's why people who shipped them where treated so badly in the fandom or just excluded all together. I can't count how many timed I've come across a "soushin shippers dni" or "soushiners are freaks and I hope you all have a bad day" or soushin fanfics/art with "I DON'T ACTUALLY SHIP IT BTW" and "not a ship" and "actual soushin shippers dni" attached to it. I can't recall how many times I had to explain myself with the "I ship but I don't condone it irl" or explain why I shipped them to not be labelled as a freak as if you need an excuse to ship anything fictional to begin with. I still remember soushin artist @uououoon and how they ended up deleting their Twitter account years ago because of the harassment and slanderous comments they were receiving for ships the fandom deemed problematic. When a person was saying their goodbyes to them on reddit and made some goodbye art (which is now deleted), some assholes in the comments were calling them weirdos and pedophiles for how they explored fiction and "glorified abuse" (which are the usual comments to uououoon's art posted on reddit unfortunately). I only caught wind of this one because back when they were still active in the fandom they were my favourite soushin artist and I went through their stuff almost every day and was tipped off when I randomly couldn't find their account anymore. They were such a nice and incredibly talented person too so the fact they essentially got bullied by a flock of stupid western fans seriously irritates me thinking about it again. This is why we cannot have nice things.

Soushin is "problematic". It's toxic and subtly abusive and important to the characters in question, but that didn't stop people from going after people who wanted to explore a dark, canon relationship (romantic, platonic or otherwise). How the actual hell did we go from "soushin has very toxic and problematic elements and you shouldn't be shipping it, you fucking freaks" to "you can ship it but don't make it actually problematic, you fucking freaks" like what is happening right now???? The worst part is that this is coming from other soushin shippers. The fact that there's actually soushiners with "proshippers dni" or "soushin is not for proship" genuinely makes me want to bite someone. Like, you horrible summer child-- not only are you demonstrating that you don't even know what "proship" actually means, but you're also spitting in the face of the people in our community that have CARRIED this ship for us for years. Why throw them under the bus to be one of the “good ones” in the eyes of antis when they hate us all anyway?

This brings us back to the sanitisation point: I feel like soushin is slowly being "sanitised" to fit the sensitive palette of antis by trying to make them as "morally acceptable" as possible. It's a worry I’ve had for a long time that once the fandom grows more accepting of the ship we'll be seeing more people basically scrubbing soushin of everything that made, well, soushin, to justify enjoying it. I've seen a bit of it already with a few people trying to say it's "not abusive" or just erase Shin's very obvious trauma by Midori all together for quite some time. Guess it's starting to happen on a bigger scale sooner rather than later. Maybe. Personally I don't think soushin having a big age gap or being related would ruin the ship. It just adds another layer of fucked up to their already fucked up relationship (I already hc Midori to be significantly older anyway so maybe I'm just biased). It doesn't really matter. I came here for toxic yaoi. I want nuclear waste level toxicity, not nuclear waste level toxicity presented in the most conventional and moral way possible. What would the point even be? It’s like packaging poison in a grape juice box. Like, it might be harmless to look at and more justifiable to think of as delicious, but it’s still poison. You making it look all cute and innocent isn’t going to change that. It's kinda funny and by that I mean not really that people will talk about wanting more "toxic yaoi" but when the yaoi is actually toxic and messy and horrific they will cry about it being "bad" or "ruined". You don't actually want dark dynamics, you want dark dynamics stripped of everything that makes them uncomfortable and dark so it's digestible to your tastes that don't even align with said dynamics in the first place. The worst part of this whole "soushin isn't proship so it's fine" bullshit is that it relies on trying to make the ship more "morally acceptable" or "legal" than other ships. Dawg, we are talking about abuse. You shouldn't be minimising that to say "well it's not [insert other terrible thing] so it's fine!!" That's not the "gotcha" you think it is. It’s one of the reasons why antis being into soushin made me feel weird cuz like you can’t ship it and then turn around to insult someone else, man (I’ve seen so many soushin defenders bash other “proships” to justify theirs like what are you doing--).

Realistically, the simplest and smartest thing to do when I see someone mischaracterise or butcher my faves is to either block or ignore and pretend to not care so I don't act on my sixth sense telling me to off them and myself. Realistically, this shouldn't be a big deal or anything that important, but this attitude is usually weaponized to harm and harass people who don't conform to their purity crisis over fiction. I'm in the unfortunate position of being not only a Your Turn to Die fandom dweller, but a Hazbin Hotel and The Coffin of Andy and Leyley one too. I'm used to being labelled a rapist and incest apologist irl who's delusional and deserves to be harassed and insulted by virtue of the media or ships I like (probably not a good thing). But people who are more active in these fandoms than me have it much worse as they get this shit directly waaaay more often while I mostly get called these things indirectly, which is what motivated me more to make this post.

So a couple days ago someone made some art of Monika from ddlc, Nikole (don't know the game sorry) and Ashley from Tcoaal. A lot of people on Twitter, unsurprisingly, bashed it for including Ashley to the point where some felt the need to clarify that they like her as a character but her actions (for some reason I do not understand like Monika has also done some seriously evil shit why are you not applying that logic to her too?). What struck me the most is that a yttd fan-- a self proclaimed "Midori enthusiast"-- ALSO quoted it to bash having Ashley in it. A freaking Midori fan. I told them to mind their business and start separating fiction and reality and to stop being a hypocrite, and thus ensued the most hilarious and stupidest convo I've had in a while:

You can literally count the seconds it takes for these guys to start throwing predator accusations and slurs at people. So "not exploring fiction correctly" makes me weird, but harming or putting real people on blast for nothing is free game, apparently. They're not the worst, both in this instance and in general, but it just stuck with me. Which is impressive, cuz I normally don't have much emotions to spare aside from general mild irritation for things like this. Maybe it's the Sonic feet.

But it ties into my issue. Midori's an absolute piece of garbage, yet some people will convince themselves that his actions are in some way justifiable to justify their hatred of something else (that is a lot less severe in this case) rather than love and let love. Tcoaal is not an "incest game" and if you describe it like that unironically you are not ready to be on the internet. No, it doesn't condone or glorify incest-- it literally does the opposite. If you need the characters to look into the camera and say "what we're doing is wrong and immoral" before doing something bad, I think you're the problem at that point. For the same reason you liking Midori (probably) doesn't mean you support human experimentation and torture, someone liking Tcoaal doesn't mean they support incest and someone shipping soushin doesn't mean they support abuse. These things are dark and shouldn't be condoned irl, but this is fiction. We can do whatever the hell we want. Being into darker themes and media doesn't have to reflect your real world views, but the inability to grasp that sentiment leads people to make their interests as moral and sanitised as possible and, feeling morally superior, will go after people who don't do that. This person deadass said that "incest is not morally grey and absolutely unjustifiable" (didn't even say that it wasn't btw) as if their blorbo hasn't committed so many atrocities for kicks that I personally find more unjustifiable. That line implies that they think that everything else Ashley has done and everything Midori has done can be justified because it wasn't incest specifically, which I find is a WILD thing to insinuate XD But it really does encapsulate the hoops antis will jump through to defend their likes while attacking yours despite the fact that it's literally the exact same as theirs. Rule of thumb: if someone accuses you of condoning something immoral because you like it in fiction, apply that logic to them, look at what they like and if their wet little meow meow is the Joker, Eren, Killua, Makima, Midori or whatever other morally bankrupt character you can come up with, take that as a confession and run. Cuz half the time these guys are actually nuts. While quote tweeting someone to shit on their art isn't the worst thing, considering how twitter has treated tcoaal artists the fact that they'd potentially open them up to harassment pissed me off, which is probably evident from my tone.

[Hi hi, this is me from the present right now cuz a more recent development came up so I’m using it as an example here too.]

While most of the things listed here have all been happening online, this attitude can come up in the real world as well.

As OP states, a bunch of hellaverse cosplayers were targetted at a french convention by haters of the show trying to ruin their cosplay. This is already completely unacceptable but the thing I can’t for the life of me get over is torching their costume while they’re still wearing it. Literally attempting to set someone on fire. All over a fucking show. It’s baffling how people can justify actions like this because they think your taste in fiction is so disgusting it’s Ok for them to hurt you. Not just online, but outside as well. It’s not the first time a hellaverse cosplayer has been harassed (last time it was a Valentino cosplayer but then again Val fans get shit from all sides all the time), and while I’m pretty sure these will remain as isolated cases it’s still scary to think about. What’s even more scary to think about how people think that their opinion on hazbin hotel has any relevance to the situation. So many of the comments in that post are just “I hate Hazbin Hotel, but—” or “I hate the fandom, but--” or “I hate Vivzie, but—” and I’m literally here ready to start pouncing like SHUT UP. No buts. That is not in any way important here. You not liking the show or the creator should not be important to the situation of cosplayers being actively harmed. You don’t have to signal your allegiances before showing basic human empathy, goddamnit. And what’s even worse is that some people have just turned this into a “b-but the hazbin fandom!!” issue, which is insulting. For example:

The “Hazbin fans do blackface and disrespect black people daily” is a reference to ONE Alastor cosplayer that nobody had defended. Not even fans. At least no one I can find. Yet they are using this one bad apple to generalise the whole fandom as "bad" and down play the amount of bullshit the hatedom does to fans on a regular. It kinda makes me feel sick that someone would look at a situation like this and spin this into a “fandom thing” rather than focusing on the victims. That they don’t deserve to be taken as seriously just because of the fandom their in. Some lunatic in the comments was literally completely minimising this whole thing saying “some red paint (fake blood capsules) isn’t nearly as bad as lynching and what black people have gone through in America” before calling anyone who called out that that’s completely irrelevant racist for liking Hazbin Hotel like are you kidding me. My homies in Christ, someone almost got lit on fire can everyone please stay on the goddamn topic. This is one of the rare moments where I was kinda proud of twitter as the majority of the comments and quotes where calling out their bullshit, but the amount of likes and some of the comments are still disappointing.

So what points am I trying to make here? This was very spontaneous and rushed so apologies if it feels messy cuz it very much is messy. But my main points boil down to this: Purification, sanitation and the “fiction equals reality” and "your fictional tastes reflect on you morality irl" arguments need to die. They just have to. While petting Shin on a daily basis gives me enough serotonin to find the will to live, the only true solace I will find is when people start being normal. People shouldn’t be getting harassed or labelled as freaks for fiction you don’t like both online and real life. People are not less worthy of basic human decency and empathy solely based on their fictional interests. People should be able to explore fiction however the hell they want without worrying about there being made a call out post on them somewhere. I search Tcoaal on twitter and there’ll always be a bunch of posts with over 10k likes calling all fans annoying weirdos or say it’s an “incest game” even tho it literally isn’t. I will try looking for some Valangel art on tumblr and see some loser use the tag to basically shit on everyone who ships it and lying about the treatment these shippers get while defending Charlastor or just shit on the ship in general. I just exist on the twitter side of the HH fandom chilling with other Val fans and literally every single one of them has either received death/rape threats or told to kill themselves, got ratio’d by a bunch of haters, had a call out post saying not to follow dedicated to them, had their art reposted and Val scribbled out, repeatedly accused of ““romantising a rapist””, or all of the fucking above. Valentino’s VA gets asked if he’s actually like the character he plays in real life or a fan being “relieved that he didn’t abuse them like Valentino” when they met (kudos to Joel for being chill about it btw I would be fuming this fandom does not deserve this man). I type in a certain controversial yttd ship to search and most of the latest posts are just people being rude, saying that if Nankidai makes them canon they’ll drop the game, calling the man himself a freak, calling other shippers freaks, shitting on soushin as well and then having soushiners defend their ship while also shitting on said controversial ship. It genuinely feels like fanbases are circuses and we are the clowns 💀

I could list other examples people being weirdos but I can't do that without breaking the momentum of this post even more than I already have. I guess what I wanted to vent about is how these attitudes regarding fiction and the way people police how others engage with it and how people think of you based on what you like can go from just annoying to downright dangerous more often than you’d think. That belief that you are morally superior to someone else based on the fact that you ship or like things the “legal” and “pure” and “healthy” way (which is never actually the case btw) can lead to you being really disrespectful or a complete asshole and not feeling bad about it at all, which does more harm than good. Which is why I thought it was important to bring up more extreme cases to empathise how this obsessive gatekeeping of fiction can and does hurt real people, who should be more important to you than fictional characters.

All of this is very likely going to sound very aggressive in tone and I want to quickly clarify that this is not meant to be an attack towards anyone in particular. I'm just tired and recalling all this stuff is making my mood sink like a stone lmao. Who knows, maybe I'm just overexaggerating and things won't get worse when the game gets more popular. This is just what I've been witnessing both in and out of my side of the moon. The amount of yttd fans I've seen act like this are a lot tho. No fandom is perfect obviously, and this one is the farthest from it, but with new people coming in and this weird attitude and need to sanitise not only towards soushin, but other "problematic" ships and media as well growing more prominent (mostly on Twitter and Tiktok) my biggest worry is that the hostility in this fandom will just... increase? Roulettefeel made pretty good posts about it-- my favourites being this one, also this one and this one's pretty short and sweet, summarising most of my soushin points a lot better and shorter than my trainwreck of a post so I recommend checking them out. If you like soushin, go check them out. If you don't like soushin, go check them out anyway. They make stuff outside of soushin too. They're pretty cool.

[I also want to add that the whole sanitisation thing in the yttd fandom is nothing new. It’s been a thing for longer than I have been here. I’ve just been seeing it again with soushin, which is was what made me want to do this in the first place. There’s another dynamic the fandom obviously does this for, but uttering it would not only get me flamed but straight up burned at the stake of bad takes so I’m saving that for a rainy day.]

Aaaaannd, I'm done, I think. I didn't have a good conclusion for this in mind. Idk, just be nice? You don't have to like "proships" (or what the fandom has defined as proship cuz that's not the actual definition), but that's what the block buttons for. Don't like, don't read, I say. Fandoms are for everyone and as long as what the person is doing is harmless, let them feel safe being themselves without having to worry about someone coming after them. Real life cops already suck. Let's not bring them into our collective escapism. And something you personally don't like ending up canon doesn't mean the game or ship is "ruined". That doesn't just go for soushin. That goes for other things too. To tie up loose ends, soushin having an age gap or being related has always been on the table and fits with other themes in the narrative. That does not count as "bad" if it makes sense. Soushin is not "Ok to ship" because it's "not an illegal ship" (whatever tf that means) and it's not "bad to ship" because it's "romanticising abuse". It's fine to ship because it's fictional. You don't need a moral justification to ship anything. That goes for all ships. That's why NOTPs exist. And "proship" doesn't and has never meant "shipping problematic pairings". It's a stance on shipping. It means being pro people being allowed to ship whatever they want. That includes being cool with problematic pairings, but is not limited to those. It means not being a fandom cop. Please stop saying otherwise, I cannot keep living this way--

Soooouuu, to end off on a more positive note and finally put this whole thing to bed I'll link some of my fav newer soushin accounts for anyone who's interested:

Hyo (orewagahai on ao3 check that out too): They are an amazing, amazing writer. If you're into dark, abusive co-dependent, complicated soushin with beautiful characterisation I would highly recommend. They just posted another soushin drabble on twitter and it's great.

jinn: They've been putting out banger after banger ever since getting into the game. Their art is absolutely stunning and they upload frequently, so go check 'em out if you can! It's actual medicine for the soul, I promise. They also draw for dead plate, so if you're into that go ahead too.

angel: Also cool. They're soushin art is hilarious and cute. As much of a sucker as I am for toxic, abusive sludge, they give thses two idiots a silliness that I enjoy. Also if you like trans!Shin content they're pretty good.

欣武 (my dumbass forgot to add them the first time sorry): They are INCREDIBLE. Extremely incredible artist. Their art is so, so freaking good. Not checking them out is absolutely your loss, ngl.

Be nice to them. If I catch anyone attempting to annoy them I'm coming after you and your entire family. Let's be better and not chase new comers off this time :3 Thanks for listening to my incoherent venting. This is mostly for me to feel a bit better, but anyone is free to read. If anyone's got an opinion or observation, feel free to offer it. I need coffee. Coffee sounds good.

[durarara-brain-rot]

i saw your analysis video about shizuo (great video btw!) and now i'm curious... what ARE your opinions on each shizuo ship? because to be honest i don't care for any shizuo ship either LOLOLOL

Oh my gosh I’m so glad you liked the video! And I can talk about it for way too long but I will try to summarize my feelings about each ship that I’ve seen around! Also this is not me saying anyone shouldn’t ship these characters this is just my opinion on why I think they don’t work and why I think Shizuo needs a therapist and then a lover interest that is removed from all of the chaos of the plots!

Tom and Shizuo; while they make good friends I can’t see them as a romantic couple because there is that power dynamic of Tom being his boss and the fact that Shizuo can’t keep any other job. This will quite literally be a power dynamic they could never get over as long as they are both working.

Izaya and Shizuo; they try to kill each other on a daily basis and in my opinion they both give each other so much anxiety it could never be a productive relationship. Both Izaya and Shizuo are mentally ill men who have a lot of internalized issues that lead to them lashing out. Izaya views Shizuo as a monster because he can’t predict what Shizuo will do and can’t understand his motivation. Izaya even says in the sunset of Izaya orihara that he “neglected to take in account the human side of Shizuo” he viewed him as lesser and any relationship born out of that dynamic inherently is toxic and will lead to abuse. I also feel that this ship breeds a lot of peoples internalized misogyny by perpetuating the idea that men can’t feel anything but anger and sex.

Celty and Shizuo; my sister ships this one and there isn’t much wrong with it compared to some of the canon relationships and ships I’ve seen in this fandom but in my opinion they work better as friends. Shizuo has very little close friends and even less friends that he doesn’t have to worry as much about hurting. Simon and Shizuo can go toe to toe but they aren’t really close from what we’ve seen, more friendly acquaintances. Celty is on an equal playing field and can more easily communicate with him since he quite literally has to calm down enough to focus on what she is writing. (I also headcanon that Shizuo has dyslexia considering he has trouble reading all of the things on the dollar message board and gets pissed off by how many words and how fast the posts were going. I may be projecting with this though) I feel that a romance between Celty and Shizuo would further separate him from others due to the fact that people would more likely associate him to the supernatural even more than they already do.

Shinra and Shizuo; Shinra doesn’t see Shizuo someone interesting, even the friendship stemmed from Shinra finding Shizuo’s powers intriguing on a scientific standpoint. Shinra should also get therapy cause boy oh boy that man needs it before getting into a relationship. Shinra as we’ve seen with Celty is a bit of a push over and is secretive because he is overly possessive. I think he has a major fear of abandonment too. Shizuo needs someone who will call him out and calm him down. He also seems to like solitude and Shinra would drive him up a wall.

Vorona and Shizuo; she literally tries to kill him and only got close to him to learn how to kill him. Yes she grows fond of him and he grows fond of her but they end up having a mentor/student dynamic creating an unhealthy dynamic if they were to get together. Plus the age gap is a bit much especially considering vorona is mentally stunted from her upbringing. Vorona is barely 20 and Shizuo is pushing 26-27 depending on what source you look at for the final season. While 6-7 years older for someone over the age of 25 isn’t that bad when it comes to someone like vorona who is barely 20 and who has had no healthy relationship with anyone let alone herself it can create an extremely unhealthy dynamic. Vorona needs time to explore her life and emotions that she just hasn’t had the years todo. Shizuo by the end of the first season (not talking about the manga because I’m not caught up) he is fully developed and actualized as a person. He has over come a lot of different internal battles and struggles and got more control over his strength. Vorona is not at that level of maturity nor is she someone that should be. She needs the time to develop and a relationship with anyone would stunt her growth in my opinion.

If you guys ship any of these characters obviously this is no hate to you guys but these are my thoughts and opinions as someone’s who’s spent way to much time breaking down the show and each of the characters. I’ve been obsessed with this show for going on ten years and could talk about my feelings and observations about it for ages.

I ship Shizuo with therapy!

Please no one kill me for my opinions!

[fandomcrazy6226]

*cracks knuckles*

Alright, I may get shot down completely for this but I think most of the Girl Meets World fans COMPLETELY MISUNDERSTAND the love triangle.

Now I know that sounds like an exaggeration but trust me with all the posts I've seen about it, it very much is not.

All of the people saying lucaya should've been endgame are 100% missing how the love triangle happened and even the end results, which were that Maya and Lucas didn't even like each other in that way.

The entire triangle stems from Maya's identity crisis where she loses herself and becomes more like Riley, and when she becomes like Riley she starts to experience Riley's feelings for Lucas to make sure he's good for her. And because she's becoming like Riley and also Riley saying her and Lucas are "siblings" (they are not), Lucas starts liking Maya as well.

The whole resolution to the triangle is Maya refinding herself and realizing that she never liked Lucas romantically, and Lucas realizing that he likes Riley, always has and always will, and he only liked Maya because she was Riley at the time.

And at the end of the day it doesn't even matter, because the real point was to show that no matter what they go through, Riley and Maya are still best friends and will always be best friends and will always be there for each other.

Also I feel like I should mention how Josh fits into this because that is also a thing that people get wrong. Josh isn't the bad guy in this situation, and Maya isn't wrong to like him. Three years isn't a very big age gap, especially when Maya is much more mature than her age would typically be. And Josh isn't a groomer for saying he'll wait, either. I know some people have big issues with that, but to me it's a really sweet and smart way to go about things and not any kind of evil or irredeemable action.

(For the record, I'm not anti- any of the ships here. I'm not anti-lucaya, anti-joshaya, anti-rucas, or even anti-riarkle. I don't care what you ship, I just want people to understand this story and why things ended up how they did in regards to these ships and characters)

(Also for the record, I am open to this starting a respectful discussion in reblogs/comments, but please keep it respectful and don’t turn this into any kind of flame war)

[olderthannetfic]

Hope it's okay to ask here, I love your blog and how you give clear, concise answers to questions without assuming bad faith so hopefully it's ok to throw my own "warning tag" question in here, TIA for the answer! So, childhood friends-to-lovers is like one of my favourite romance tropes to write in fanfic. I've done a LOT of ships with that, but I've never actually written anything more uh...spicy, shall we say. Until after the ship were both adults. I was raised Extremely Fundie and wasn't very sex positive for a LONG time as a result but now that I'm older & out of that environment I've grown a lot. So because of religious upbringing I just avoided writing smut before both characters were 18 "to be safe". In a recent new fandom I'm in I have a character who I feel like very much WOULD have explored her sexuality before she turned 18. The partner in this context is her childhood friend so they grew up together and are probably at most like 3 years apart, if that. So my question is, would I tag that as Underage because, even tho they're close together in age (ie. both "minors" in that sense) they ARE Underage or is the Underage tag on AO3 solely for Adult/Minor ships? (not judging writers of Adult/Minor pairings either, I'll add. It's just not my scene and I don't want to give people the wrong impression in the tags, either way around, whenever I inevitably write & post their First Time fic, yk?) -🌸 (hope its okay to tag this so I can maybe find it later? I don't wanna ask this off anon in case I get blasted by That(tm) side of fandom at large who might see my username and then come into my DMs/inbox to scream "P*do!!" at me, but I DO wanna be able to see the answer when it comes up, esp if I am not on tumblr the day that it does haha)

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Ah. You're still thinking about that tag in a more cultural sense, but that's not what it's for. If you dig through the FAQs and such, the explanation is in there somewhere, but to summarize, it refers to:

On page depictions of sexual activity including at least one character under 18.

(So if they just kiss or you just say she had sex but you don't show intercourse, oral, etc. on the actual page, it doesn't count.)

AO3's underage tag is actually to protect users who live in jurisdictions where <18 sexytimes are banned from art or banned unless there's ~artistic merit~ or whatever. Around the time AO3 was starting up was when Australia was having a big upheaval over such things, so it was on people's minds in the Anglosphere.

Whether the sex is problematique or age gap or whatever doesn't matter. The actual age of consent or laws around sex in the real world location these characters are in, if any, does not matter. Your 17-year-old UK characters fucking still need the warning or CNTW even though that's laughable in context. 18 tends to be the age most used in international law for... like... porn star ages and such, so 18 is what AO3 went with. Never mind that it's not necessarily the age of majority or that age of consent laws can depend on partner age, etc. etc.

Unlike noncon/graphic violence/character death, this warning isn't there primarily because readers find the topic squicky.

It's a legal ass-covering thing.

[min0uet]

I’m not a fan of kabru/mithrun but can I ask why it’s bad to ship? I’ve read the whole manga and afaik they’re not related, theyre both adults.

hi anon. i know you're asking in good faith and i'm gonna answer in good faith, but before i do, i have to say it's kinda wild that multiple people interpreted "you're weird for shipping this" as "there is something deeply morally wrong with this ship" when i never actually said that. a ship can be bad without breaking some kind of moral or societal taboo, and i think more of you have to remember that. sometimes things just suck. sometimes you can just be a hater.

that said, here's why kabru/mithrun is weird. first of all one thing that really bothers me is the age gap. not literally of course, they're different races so comparing literal numbers means nothing; i mean in terms of maturity. here's a post about otta that i think is applicable: [link] the main relevant point is that you can roughly divide an elf's age by five to get a sense of how old they are in tallman years. mithrun is 185, and in tallman years would be about 37. kabru is 22, and that's just way too big of an age gap for me. like, it doesn't even fit into that "half your age plus seven" rule. again, before people get defensive, i'm not calling the ship """problematic""" or whatever bullshit. i'm just saying, personally, they're too far apart for me.

there's also the part where the canaries are milsiril's peers, not kabru's. kabru/mithrun would be like dating one of your mom's old coworkers. gonna link to another post here since i'm just repeating the same points they made: [link] this one's not as notable since it's not like milsiril and mithrun were besties or anything, just another thing that feels weird.

okay, i've explained my good faith reasons for disliking kabru/mithrun. now i get to be a hater.

hey did you guys forget that mithrun is like, openly racist?

like you can ship what you want or whatever, but i think if you're gonna ship kabru with this guy then you shouldn't complain when people call you weird for it. i'm just saying.

edit: this post is getting notes again so i guess i should give an update since my opinions have slightly changed. i've seen people make pretty good arguments that mithrun is one of the only elves in canon who DOES treat kabru like an actual person and not an inferior child, and i also appreciate the relationship between them a bit more. remaking this post now i would probably leave out the part about the elves' racism since that does seem like yet another thing mithrun doesn't have the desire to care about anymore, so it's not entirely relevant. the rest of my points stand though and i still don't fuck w romantic kabu/misu