#(correction: i actually think he only refers to it as a prison once my bad)

[banjomelodies]

Spoilers (since I recently rewatched Scaras videos and saw comments about the Nameless Child) (+unintentional Ei rant)

I remember seeing a lot of people question Scaramouches whole thing about holding a grudge on a dying child, but, honestly, as an immortal being that was still learning for the most part at the time, I think it makes sense. He mentions in his character stories that he wasn't aware a human could deteriorate and pass on in a single night. To him, he believed he had so much more time. They had made promises, he cared for that child, showed him the home that once imprisoned him. And if you really think about it.. he didn't really witness death like this until now. He never saw Niwas body, and I don't know if he ever actually saw the bodies of the various workers in Tatarasuna when they finally passed away, as he also mentions that he didn't expect to be flooded with a negative emotion upon witnessing death (though granted, his relationship with the Nameless Child would obviously be drastically different than the random acquaintances of Tatarasuna, so there's just a chance that he really didn't get hit by heavy emotions).

All that he was aware of was that he was alone again. Ei abandoned him, and he only knew that Niwa supposedly ran away and left him alone, and then the child he treated as family left him too. Grief forms in so many different ways, and anger at things around you, or the person who is deceased, can be a common part of it. There's anger at being abandoned, anger about how life suddenly changed.. so many different factors go into it. And instead of being able to handle that anger in better ways, he found himself burning down a building, and attempting to off himself in the flames, and when he lived and tried to keep going with a newfound fear and hatred towards humans who only ever broke his expectations, or had the potential of only hurting him more, he landed in a group that took advantage of and fed that anger.

Scaramouche never had the chance to properly grieve or figure out how to handle emotions that were still new to him at the time. Him having a grudge on Niwa, Ei, and The Nameless Child makes sense, as it's all he knew. There was never anyone there who actually tried to properly help him. In his brain, he was abandoned again, and again, and again, and it eventually just spiraled into a hatred for other people.

I know a lot of people don't usually go for the "I'm going to try to analyze the characters emotions!" route when watching videos about things like this, since, obviously, why would you. But, there are legitimate reasons as to why Scaramouche would be mad at someone for dying, and it's a sucky situation all the way through. But the best thing is, he probably finally got over the anger he had on Niwa and The Nameless Child upon becoming The Wanderer (I don't care what anyone says he doesn't owe Ei any forgiveness - Her situation was straight-up just child abandonment. Which, yeah, sure, she was doing it because she didn't want to control him, and wanted him to live his own life without her interference, but you couldn't just like.. leave him a note explaining that? Check on him once in a while? Hell, even drop him off in civilization that'd love and care for him? You imprisoned him for who knows how long in a domain that probably just felt mind-numbing as everything was always the same until he was finally broken free from it. You say you didn't want to interfere with his life, but then threw him into a situation where his life would've sucked and been non-existent as he could only just stare at walls and trees. Unless she was just gunning on humans to break him out to give him an actual meaningful life, considering he didn't have his strength at the time. But this isn't a Raiden Ei being a shitty mom rant post, so uh!!)

Ignoring my Ei rant for a second. I hope this was. A decent read. Despite how short it is. I always loved analyzing Scaramouche as a character, so making posts about his backstory is very fun.

[loving-n0t-heyting]

When I say that to choose to kill the innocent as a means to one’s ends is murder, I am saying what would generally be accepted as correct. But I shall be asked for my definition of “the innocent.” I will give it, but later. Here, it is not necessary; for with Hiroshima and Nagasaki we are not confronted with a borderline case. In the bombing of these cities it was certainly decided to kill the innocent as a means to an end. And a very large number of them, all at once, without warning, without the interstices of escape or the chance to take shelter, which existed even in the “area bombing” of the German cities.

“But where will you draw the line? It is impossible to draw an exact line.” This is a common and absurd argument against drawing any line; it may be very difficult, and there are obviously borderline cases. But we have fallen into the way of drawing no line and offering as justifications what an uncaptive mind will find only a bad joke. Wherever the line is, certain things are certainly well to one side or the other of it.

Now who are “the innocent” in war? They are all those who are not fighting and not engaged in supply those who are with the means of fighting. A farmer growing wheat which may be eaten by the troops is not “supplying them with the means of fighting.” Over this, too, the line may be difficult to draw. But that does not mean that no line should be drawn, or that, even if one is in doubt just where to draw the line, one cannot be crystal clear that this or that is well over the line.

“But the people fighting are probably just conscripts! In that case they are just as innocent as anyone else.” [She may well have added: “But civilians are probably enthusiastic proponents and willing beneficiaries of the war, in which case they are quite culpable as well!”] “Innocent” here is not a term referring to personal responsibility at all. It means rather “not harming.” But the people fighting are “harming,” so they can be attacked; but if they surrender they become in this sense innocent and so may not be maltreated or killed. Nor is there round for trying them on a criminal charge; not, indeed, because a man has no personal responsibility for fighting, but because they were not the subjects of the state whose prisoners they are.

There is an argument which I know from experience it is necessary to forestall at this point, though I think it is visibly captious. It is this: on my theory, would it not follow that a soldier can only be killed when he is actually attacking? Then, e.g., it would be impossible to attack a sleeping camp. The answer is that “what someone is doing” can refer to what he is doing at the moment or to his rôle in a situation. A soldier under arms is “harming” in the latter sense even if he is asleep. But it is true that the enemy should not be attacked more ferociously than is necessary to put them hors de combat.

These conceptions are distinct and intelligible ones; they would formerly have been said to belong to the Law of Nations. Anyone can see that they are good, and we pay tribute to them by our moral indignation when our enemies violate them. But in fact they are going, and only fragments of them are left.

[annes-andromeda]

I know this is probably gonna age horribly since the Duffers will more than likely do something different, but I’ve been having some thoughts about the Upside Down.

I think Wills painting may serve another purpose besides being used for the Byler storyline. This isn’t necessarily a theory but more or less like an alternate storyline thing cause I don’t believe this might happen in the show, but it’s fun to think about.

Now this has been talked about a little bit about how the painting may be foreshadowing for S5. Some have said that the three-headed dragon is the Mind Flayers final form, others have said that it’s the Thessalhydra. I personally believe it’s the latter since Nancy described the creature in her vision as having “a gaping mouth”. And she’s definitely not describing the Demogorgon or Demodogs or Demobats because if that’s the case, then she would’ve just said it.

This is the only picture I could find that depicts the Thessalhydra with wings, but it definitely fits both Nancy’s description and the painting. And it’s not like the show hasn’t made changes to creatures from DnD.

But back to the painting, I believe that it is foreshadowing the Party comic together and defeating a common enemy. Now in the show this may very well be the Thessalhydra, but I have this sort of headcanon that I’ve been concocting:

What if just like Byler in S4, the painting ends up being a miscommunication. Like it is correct in the Party stopping a great foe, but it’s wrong in who the enemy ends up being.

If was just revealed that Vecna was the big bad this whole time despite focusing on the Mind Flayer for three seasons, then imo it would feel cheap. It would feel like when the Star Wars sequel trilogy clearly set up Snoke to be the big bad… only to kill him off in the second film and then suddenly revive Palpatine because reasons I guess🤷‍♀️

In terms of canon, I’d like for it to be revealed that Vecna only thinks that he’s in control of the Upside Down and the Mind Flayer, only for the MF to do a 180 and show him who’s really running things.

Since I believe the MF to be an Eldritch demon of some kind, I think he is the only being who’s mind Henry cannot read. So if he were, let’s say, using Henry as a way to regain power or merge the UD with Hawkins, then Henry wouldn’t know because the MD could simply block his own thoughts.

I do not believe that Henry created the Mind Flayer, but more so gave it its form. Similarly to how Will didn’t necessarily make the Upside Down (because we saw it existing even before his time), but he most likely gave it the form of Hawkins because he was afraid and home was the first thing on his mind (It’s also why I believe transmutation to be one of Wills abilities)

So essentially, Vecna is the Darth Vader to the Mind Flayer’s Palpatine. However, while the Mind Flayer can be referred to as the ruler of the Upside Down, I wouldn’t necessarily make him the creator of it.

This is where the Thessalhydra and the painting’s miscommunication comes in (Once again this is all just a headcanon)

What if it ends up being wrong that the Thessalhydra is the final boss. It could start off that the characters think this giant dragon-like kaiju with multiple heads and a gaping mouth is the ultimate villain to defeat or whatever.

But what if it ends up being revealed that the Thessalhydra is not only the original ruler of the Upside Down, but the creator? And that after the portals begin opening up, it is finally allowed to break free of whatever prison it’s been held in. This means the Thessalhydra can finally reclaim its throne and defeat it enemy, the Mind Flayer.

Now how would all of this be revealed? Well, I don’t know about canon but here’s my vision for an alternate story:

In S4, it’s revealed that Will has powers like El. However, it is subtly hinted that his powers may very well be generational, mainly on his mothers side.

Now this is something that actually was hinted at way back in the very first season. We see in S1 that after Jonathan, Steve, and Nancy defeat the Demogorgon, the lights begin to flicker in the Byers house.

Nancy and Steve think it’s the Demogorgon again, but Jonathan is the only one who senses Joyce walking around in the Upside Down. Not Joyce and Hopper, just Joyce. And the crazy thing is, Joyce senses him back.

(GIFs are not mine)

The fact that both Jonathan and Joyce can sense each other’s presence despite being in different dimensions is insane to me and I hate the fact that this is never brought up again after S1.

So this would fuel my little headcanon (or theory whatever) that Joyce’s side has some sort of generational abilities. Joyce and Jonathan’s abilities would be more mentally focused, whereas El and Will’s abilities would be more physically focused. Yes, I know El isn’t a biological Byers, but we see in S2 that her bio mother Terry has powers of her own, so her powers may also be generational.

It’s also the same for Henry. I also theorize his powers to be generational, once again, on his mothers side. It would explain why his mother was the only one who caught on to what Henry was doing in their house, and his father and sister were oblivious.

So let’s say that while the characters are fighting against some monsters of the UD or Vecna, Jonathan gets taken. Since Vecna has already held Will and El hostage, why not give Joyce even more trauma and stress and take her eldest son/first child🙃

While the group is trying to find Jonathan, he gets taken to an unknown location. There, he meets the Thessalhydra face to face. This could parallel to how Will is the first one to see the Mind Flayer in person.

Obviously in the beginning, Jonathan thinks this is just another monster trying to kill him like all the other ones. But unlike the Demogorgon or the other creatures, the Thessalhydra is much more intelligent and can sense that this boy is not a threat.

Since the Thessalhydra is the creator of the UD, the creatures living there actually were originally impervious to fire. However, once the Mind Flayer took over, the UD became a cold, barren wasteland. Creatures like the Demogorgon and others had to adapt, which is why fire can now hurt them.

Along with figuring out the UD’s history, Jonathan finds out that like his brother and sister, he too has powers of his own. He can actually control the monsters of the UD and sense their thoughts and emotions, which is why the Thessalhydra knows he isn’t a threat. He can also link his mind with the people closest to him, which he uses to communicate to his mother and siblings, as a parallel to S1. Joyce also this same mind link power.

Jonathan shows the rest of the group that the Thessalhydra isn’t their enemy, and boom! Cue epic face off against the Mind Flayer and Vecna (or just the MD if he decided to kill Vecna idk)

Will all of this happen in the actual season? Highly doubt it. But I’d definitely like to learn more about the Upside Down and the Mind Flayer and how it all came to be. And it is the last season, so you gotta go out with a bang.

[shyficwriter]

Temporary Home: Chapter 11

Guardians of the Galaxy fanfic | Reader x Guardians (With Yondu and Kraglin!) Guest starring Nick Fury and Maria Hill

Summary: Fury comes for another weekly check-in and Reader gets in trouble. He also brings along a doctor, will he have good or bad news for Rocket?

Previous Chapter here | Next Chapter Here Or click here to: Start From Beginning

Author’s Note: A -l o n g b o i- of a chapter. Also, for my records, this is day 14 of the Guardians living with reader.

Word Count: 7,756

You wake up early, partially due to the pain in your arm, but mostly because you knew Fury would likely be coming today and you wanted to try and get to town and back before he arrived.

After a light breakfast you start to go out back door to retrieve the box the raccoon corpse was in, but Peter, who had also just finished eating and who suspected exactly what you're doing, jumped up and said he'll help you get the box.

You roll your eyes, and you're about to tell him you are fine to do it yourself when you hear knock at door. You assume it's Fury, but you want to be careful. You look out window, prepared to tell Peter to keep the others out of sight, when you notice two SHIELD vehicles behind your own, and that they hadn't been cloaked like Fury's was last time.

"It's Fury," you tell Peter, and he goes to fetch a few of the others who weren't already in the kitchen, mostly Rocket, because he expected they would want to see him after you said you'd be contacting SHIELD about the raccoon fight and whether Rocket had his shots.

Feeling slightly relieved that it was just Fury and that he hadn't decided to test you this time, you answer the door to see not only Fury and Agent Hill, but another man.

Fury gives a quick greeting and introduces the man as a doctor they brought along to test the dead raccoon. Apparently they came prepared after your message to Maria the previous night. You offer to go unlock shed but Fury says he needs you to stay there, and to give the doctor the keys. You are surprised, but obey, assuming he just wants briefed on what happened last night.

You hand the doctor the keys and he disappears back out the front door while you lead Fury and Maria into the kitchen where the others are just as Peter comes back down the stairs with Drax and Rocket.

As suspected, Fury asks first about what happened with the raccoon incident.

Rocket rolls his eyes and grumbles, "Nothing."

Drax speaks up. He tells Fury that he and you heard the commotion outside, saw Rocket getting attacked, and then you shot the offending animal.

Fury nods. "I see. I trust you've already looked him over, but our doctor will be doing so again before he administers the booster. According to our records Rocket was given a rabies vaccination, but you can never be too careful."

"Good." you reply, nodding your head in relief.

Rocket just hopped up on the counter to sit with his arms crossed indignantly, not looking forward to being examined for something he had already been checked for, but surprisingly he chose not to be a child about it.

"How long before we know if the raccoon was infected or not?" asked Kraglin.

Agent Hill answered. "The test takes about two hours. We brought a lab van so the test could be preformed on site that way we'd know as soon as possible."

Leave it to SHIELD to come prepared for literally everything.

"We also brought another couple weeks worth of rations. NOVA expects you all to be here for awhile more." This earned unhappy muttered grumblings from Rocket, but the others kept their mouth shut. They were never under the impression the negotiations would be done quickly. Maria continued, "So if a few of you want to help carry the boxes in..." she gestured towards the kitchen door. She said it politely, but it wasn't exactly a request. She wasn't a maid.

You nodded and started to head toward the door when Fury said. "Agent, stop."

You stopped, looking at him with a raised eyebrow. "Sir?"

Peter, Drax, and Kraglin, who had stood and were also about to follow Agent Hill (and tell you specifically not to go, for obvious reasons), also stopped, surprised by Fury's tone. He almost sounded a bit like he was scolding you despite his tone being even.

"Please remove your sweater."

The sweater he was referring to was actually an old knit cardigan. You had taken to wearing it the past few days due both to a string of overcast and therefore chillier days, and well, for said obvious reasons. "I'm sorry, what?" you ask.

"Your jacket. Take it off."

You swallow. You had a sneaking suspicion why he would ask you that. He had an annoying habit of somehow knowing everything. "If it's all the same, I'd rather not-"

"Remove your jacket, agent. Or do you need Agent Hill to assist you?" It was clear that he wasn't going to take no for an answer.

You try to hide a grimace as you did what you were told, doing your best not to wince as you pulled your sweater off your good arm first and then the injured arm. Silently you wondered who had squealed on you. A small gasp from Mantis was heard when she saw what your sweater had been hiding, and you could feel the eyes of the others also on you as Fury gave you an unamused look and Agent Hill's eyes widened sightly. Even Rocket looked a bit surprised. He wasn't expecting it to look that bad.

Purple and green bruising stained your arm, radiating out from your elbow and stretching from your bicep to maybe 5 inches shy of your wrist.

"The doctor is also here to check over your injury as well." Fury said. Looking to Gamora he thanked her for informing them of your injury before turning back to scold you for not having mentioned it to them or having seen a doctor for it. He also threw in that you should be wearing a sling and resting your arm instead of 'acting like a dumbass who thinks they don't need to take care of themselves.'

"Sir, it's fine. I-"

"I'm trusting you to protect these people. How are you going to do that if you cripple yourself by neglecting injuries?" he scolded.

You shot an unhappy look to Gamora, but you could tell she wasn't sorry. You also caught almost smug looks from Yondu and Peter before turning back to Fury.

"How did it happen?" asked Maria. Gamora had told her that it had happened, that you refused help, and that you put it back in place yourself, but she hadn't told her how it happened. Seeing the aftermath of the injury now herself had made her curious.

"Slipped," you say before anyone can speak up for you. "Clumsy me," you add sarcastically.

Peter raised an eyebrow and shared glances with Kraglin and Yondu, surprised that you seemed to be covering for him. However, he didn't correct you, assuming you gave that answer for a reason, and after all, it wasn't totally a lie, more just... not the whole truth.

That explanation was apparently good enough for Fury and Maria because she nodded at the guys for them to follow as Fury laid into you again.

***

Maria opened the back hatch of the SUV, revealing crates of rations to be taken inside.

Lifting up one of the crates, Peter tried to make conversation, mentioning how Fury seemed surprisingly mad at you for not seeking out a doctor for your injury.

Sure, he could understand your boss telling you that you were dumb for neglecting an injury and scolding you for being stupid, but Fury's anger seemed different than he would have expected. Almost like he genuinely cared that you had gotten hurt. He couldn't remember any of his mother's bosses caring that much. If anything, if she had gotten hurt or sick, they would have preferred that she pretended she hadn't and just worked through it. Then again, he always did think most of her bosses were mean. Maybe she just had bad luck?

"Yeah, well, this wouldn't be the first time she's hidden an injury." Maria admitted. "I imagine he's getting a bit tired of it."

Kraglin took a crate from Maria. "She do that often?" he asked, surprised that anyone would just routinely hide when they've been hurt for seemingly no reason.

"It's not a super frequent occurrence, but she does have a bad habit of not saying when she's hurt. Once she got stabbed on the job in Hong Kong... we only found out when another agent walked in on her trying to stitch herself up in the hotel afterwards." She stacked a crate on top of the one Drax was already holding and shut the hatch before bending down to pick up the last crate she had set on the ground for herself. "Then there was a time when we were on a job together in Romania. We had been captured and held hostage for two days. I noticed she started looking worse and worse as time went on. I thought she was just getting sick, but then she passed out during the last interrogation attempt before SHEILD busted in the door with backup." She started walking back towards the house with the men. "I found out after they got her to medical that the day after we got sent out she came down with appendicitis and instead of telling someone that something was wrong and getting medical treatment, she apparently decided it was better to just cut out her own appendix- still don't know how she managed that without anyone noticing." Maria sounded like she clearly disapproved of your prior actions. "Anyway, with no way to keep it clean while we were being held prisoner, she had developed an infection. She was put on suspension for that one. I've got more, but I think you get the drift."

The three men's eyes were wide as they followed Agent Hill back to the house.

"That's insane." Peter said. "Why would anyone do that?"

"Beats me. She didn't always used to be that way, but now we use her as an example for what you shouldn't do with the new recruits."

"What do you think changed? Could she have suffered a brain injury that made her dumb?" Drax asked.

Peter shifted his crate so he could open the door and scolded Drax for being rude. As they walked into the hall Maria said, "No head injury that I'm aware of, she just kinda changed after-"

She never got to finish that sentence, for they entered the kitchen to hear you angrily say to Fury, "You can't be serious."

The four made their way towards the pantry with their crates, cautiously eyeing the situation so as to not appear nosy. Well, except for Drax, who was just flat out staring.

You were staring angrily at a stern-faced Fury while Gamora looked at the two of you, uneasiness in her eyes. Yondu and Rocket had looks of almost smug satisfaction playing on their faces, while Mantis and Groot appeared confused and intrigued.

"Serious as a heart attack." Fury answered. "After the doctor examines you and gives his orders, she-" he pointed to Gamora, "is going to report back to me if you break them, since clearly she has more sense than you."

"Sir, I don't need a babysitter-"

"Act like a baby, you get a sitter." Fury responded, cutting you off. "Adults know better than to just ignore serious injuries, Agent. Or do I need to remind you of the stunt you pulled in Romania?"

Gamora looked uncomfortable, and she wasn't even the one being scolded, though now she did wonder what you had done in Romania, wherever that was. Yondu was also curious, as Fury's statement confirmed you had done this more than once.

You sighed indignantly, "Sir I-"

"Enough. Unless you want to tell me you intend to defy orders, I suggest you keep any excuses to yourself. If I hear anything about you neglecting the doctor's orders, your ass will be assigned to a desk so fast your head will spin. Are we clear?"

Your eyes widened. Desk duty?! He couldn't do that to you. "What? Sir?! You can't do that-" you say, your voice almost pleading with a hint of indignation.

He says again, more firmly, "Are we clear?" Not only could he, he most definitely would. You thought being assigned to stay home was bad? Try being stuck in a cubicle for the next foreseeable future.

"Yes, sir." you say begrudgingly.

"Good."

Rocket started chuckling, pleased to see you get dressed down by your boss. In your own home, no less. Then he got an idea. "Hey, Agent." he said in a mocking tone.

You turn to glare at him. "What?" you respond irritably.

"Why don't you tell me where that new bed in my room came from?" He was wearing a shit eating grin, and you weren't sure why he'd bring it up right now.

You roll your eyes. "How should I know? Bed faeries? Piss off."

Rocket grinned wider. "Really? 'Cause I've got a feeling you aren't allowed to lie to your director, so if he were to ask..."

Fury, not in the mood, flatly repeated what he had said on the last visit, "I'm not here to get involved with your petty squabbles." adding, "I couldn't care less what this was about."

Rocket almost looked disappointed, and you relieved, before Agent Hill said, "Well, he might not care, but we'll be here for the next two hours waiting on results anyway... and technically I do outrank you..." Her smile wasn't malicious, it was clear that her intent was only some good-natured ribbing to her fellow agent who seemingly didn't like to admit that she'd done something nice for the asshole raccoon. Trying to lighten the mood.

You give Maria a look that says, 'Are you fucking kidding?'

Rocket looked delighted, and a few of the others looked pleasantly intrigued by your expression. By now everyone had pretty much gathered that you had made Rocket the bed, but you never would say as much. It'd be interesting if you'd actually admit it, or suffer whatever consequence lying to a superior might entail if they would choose to enforce it.

Fury, however, rolled his eye and told Maria he was going to have a word with the doctor. His way of saying that this issue wasn't worth his time, but he also wasn't going to stop whatever happened next.

Maria didn't force you to come clean about the bed. Not at first anyway. She did, however, exercise her power to keep you in line. Meaning, if you didn't do like you were told and just sit and wait for the doctor while the guys finished emptying the crates into the pantry and returned the crates to the vehicle, she'd make veiled threats to ask where the bed came from.

You knew she was only having a bit of fun, but you still stared daggers at her.

***

After a bit Fury returned with the doctor, who greeted you again by handing you the keys to your shed, stating that he locked it back up. He also informed that part of the the rabies test involved freezing the samples for 45 minutes, so he would examine you and Rocket in the meantime.

You went to motion for Rocket to go first, but Fury prodded the doctor in your direction, giving you a look that you knew better than to argue with. Rocket stuck his tongue out at you and remained sitting, satisfied, on the counter. Out of most everyone's sight, though, his tail twitched.

You were tense, but on your best behavior the whole time the doctor examined your injured arm, not wishing for Fury to come up with another punishment for your disobedience.

The doctor pulled a device out of a briefcase that turned out to be a fancy portable X-ray device to make sure there were no fractures. Luckily there weren't any.

The outcome was determined that you were very lucky. Somehow you had managed to set the bones back in place well enough on your own without accidentally breaking the radial heads in the 're-entry' process, something the doctor said he'd wouldn't have expected for a self-reset, but then again, most don't attempt to reset this type of injury on their own either. You were given a mild scolding by the doctor for not putting the arm in a sling so the ligaments could heal, however, and he said you were very lucky it didn't re-dislocate. You internally groaned as "I told you so's" peeped from behind you.

The doctor placed your arm in a strange hinged brace with a strap that made it sort of like a sling with the instructions that you were required to wear it with the strap for a week. Afterwards you could remove the strap, but you would still need to wear the brace for at least another two or three weeks. You were also placed on a weight restriction of only 5 pounds for your injured arm. Great...

You didn't say anything, only nodded, having gotten the message that it wasn't in your best interest to argue if you didn't want another tongue-lashing from Fury.

When the doctor was done with you he moved onto Rocket, who's ears momentarily flattened when he saw the doctor was now approaching him, but he quickly recovered, begrudgingly allowing himself to be examined.

As expected, the doctor found nothing of concern, barely even a scratch, which he was sure to clarify that Rocket likely wouldn't have contracted rabies from even if the animal does test positive.

The doctor turned to his coat pocket and pulled out a pre-loaded syringe of pinkish liquid, declaring to Rocket that it was the vaccine booster as he pulled off the cap.

Peter saw Rocket stiffen and finally noticed the twitching of his tail, and decided to be merciful and distract him. "Hey, Trash Panda,"

Rocket turned his head to Peter as the doctor grabbed his arm. "I don't answer to that, Star-Munch."

"You just did." Peter laughed.

Rocket growled at him before turning back to the doctor and asking him to hurry up so he could bite a chunk out of Peter's face.

"Already done," stated the doctor, capping the now empty needle and slipping it into a plastic bag before returning it to his pocket.

Rocket raised his eyebrows, forgetting his previous anger towards Peter. "Oh." His tail ceased its twitching. He hadn't felt a thing.

Peter didn't return to taunting and just let him forget. Mission accomplished.

Now done, the doctor announced he'd be going back to the lab-van to check on the samples, leaving you to sit awkwardly with your boss, co-worker, and the rest of the Guardians.

You look to the ceiling and sigh before saying, "Well I suppose I should offer you some tea if you're going to be here awhile."

Maria nodded that she'd take some and no sooner than you go to stand does Peter speak up and say, "Let me help-"

You give him a seething look that actually makes him recoil. "Unless you know how to make tea, fuck off. And even if you do, still fuck off. I don't need both arms to make fecking tea and I don't need your help. I'm not an infant." Your tone was even, but the venom was still there. A bit harsh, perhaps, but it sent the desired message. The whole situation was making you very cranky and maybe they shouldn't push it. At least for awhile until you had a chance to decompress.

Fury, however, shot you a disapproving look before you turned to put the kettle on, though he didn't say anything. He had pretty much expected this is how you might react.

The next half hour was mostly sipping tea and awkward attempts at conversation as everyone waited for the doctor to finish the test.

Yondu wasn't much interested in trying to make conversation, though he was surprised to find he didn't mind the tea. He was watching as you fiddled with your cup. You were quiet, and he thought you seemed nervous. Could you be nervous about the test results on that animal? Why? All evidence pointed to Rocket being completely fine, he hadn't been bitten, and that's what you said they had to worry about, right?

When the doctor finally returned he had good news. The raccoon had tested negative.

Yondu watched you visibly relax and it made him wonder if there was something you hadn't told them.

He was right. You were worried about the possibility of the raccoon's blood or saliva having found its way into one of the scratches or, more grossly, Rocket's mouth or eyes. If the raccoon had been infected, you knew those would be other possible ways Rocket still could have contracted the virus. You hadn't told the others because you hadn't wanted them to worry, but doing this only then made you worry. Not just because you didn't want to see even an asshole like Rocket die like that, but because you had told the others he'd be fine if he wasn't bitten, and that hadn't fully been the truth. It was a weight off your shoulders to hear that the test came back negative.

With that news Fury, Agent Hill, and the doctor were finally all able to leave. Fury stood and made eye-contact with Gamora. "Remember what I said, she steps out of line, disobeys the doctor's orders, you report back to us. Understood?"

Gamora nodded uneasily. She hadn't expected to be put on the spot and honestly wasn't looking forward to her assigned task, sure that it would only serve to piss you off.

Fury looked at you now. "Understood, Agent?"

You exhale irritably and say, "Yes, sir."

"Good. We'll be seeing you again next week."

You led them to the front door to let them out, but right before she walked out Maria turned to you with a smile and said, "Oh, almost forgot. Where did that new bed in Rocket's room come from?" She said it louder than necessary, no doubt to make sure that the others could hear the question being asked.

"Dammit, Maria!" you scold.

Fury now turned with a smirk, seemingly finally finding humor in the situation. "You know what. I changed my mind. I'd also like to know. Agent?"

You look to the ceiling with a pitiful look. Maria had only been joking, there wouldn't be any real consequences for refusing to tell her. Fury, however, was your boss, and if he wanted to be a dick about it, he could. Apparently your recent stunt with your injury had pressed his 'asshole' button. "I built it." you mutter.

Fury spoke in a tone louder than necessary, just to mess with you. "Sorry, Agent, I didn't catch that."

You glare at him and only speak up a little bit. "Said I built it, sir."

Fury chuckled, and spoke again in the louder-than-necessary voice, "Ah, you built the bed! What a nice thing to do, Agent!"

Rocket could be heard from the kitchen cheering, "I frickin knew it!"

You glared at your boss and coworker. "I hate you both so much."

Fury chuckled. "Goodbye, Agent."

"Goodbye, sir." you reply, promptly shutting the door.

You turn to see Rocket standing smugly in the kitchen doorway. Peter and Kraglin were standing behind him, appearing amused.

"Not a word." you say, barely looking at them as you made for the stairs.

Rocket laughed. "Oh, I was just going to ask if I should give my regards to you, or the faeries."

"Can't hear you!" you call back as you walk up the stairs.

"Come on now, that was a nice thing ya did!" Kraglin said, his tone teasing.

"Not listening!" you cry back as you climb higher, fully aware you were acting a bit like a child, but not caring in your pursuit to get away.

They heard your door shut and Kraglin turned to Peter to say, "She's an odd one, ain't she?"

"Yep."

***

Gamora felt uneasy. After conversing with the others about you, she had contacted Agent Hill on the communication device SHIELD had given them in case any issues arose. They were naturally concerned with how you kept to your room after the injury, and a few therefore worried that the injury was worse than you let on.

They could have just let you be, after you made it clear that you wouldn't accept their help, but after they saw you risk further injury to save their friend, she and Peter collectively decided they'd risk overstepping and contact SHIELD. You helped one of them, they'd help you. Even if you didn't want it, they felt you needed it.

What they hadn't expected was for Fury to be angry about it and, as a result, assign Gamora as your warden.

She talked with Peter in private, discussing what she should do about the situation. She didn't see the situation going well. You barely knew each other and you could be... well, stubborn might be an understatement. Eventually they agreed there was only one thing to be done. Just do it.

Or, at least make it look like she had every intention of carrying through without pissing you off to much. Sometimes people needed a little tough love for their own good, but Gamora knew if they crossed the line into overbearing things could go south real quick, and she didn't want to risk finding the tipping point that would make you make them leave. Being assigned someone to report back on you if you misbehaved was probably humiliating enough without them pushing it.

Now if they could only get Rocket on board.

You stayed in your room most of the day, but when you did come out to eat or to stretch your legs Rocket would throw teases at you, saying that you better stay in line if you didn't want Gamora to tell on you, and throwing taunts about the punishment Fury had threatened you with if you disobeyed the doctor's orders.

To their surprise, however, you just ignored him. You literally just didn't acknowledge him. Just walked about your business, and returned to your room without even a glance in his direction.

Then they realized it was only because you couldn't hear him. You had your earbuds in. Probably for the best, really.

Gamora's uneasiness eventually turned into relief when it became clear that you didn't hold a major grudge against her for squealing on you or her assignment from Fury. Based on your reaction earlier she had been worried that you'd focus your ire on her, but for whatever reason, you didn't seem to.

It was true, you didn't hold a grudge against her. Well, not after you had a chance to cool down about the situation, that is. Listening to music always made you feel better, so it helped your mood that you had kept your earbuds in for most of the day, (and let's be honest, it saved Rocket's ass too.) You took some time to reflect. Except for a period when you went for a walk to decompress, you stayed in your room and just thought about the situation. From what you had seen of Gamora, she probably only thought she was helping. Why she wanted to, you couldn't guess, but you just assumed she did. Fury was probably just trying to teach you a lesson, and you resolved to not let it get to you. You'd play the game, be good, and then he'd eventually get off your back. Easy.

After spending most of the day reflecting, you didn't feel as cranky as you had that morning. Yup, good old music and walking had done it's job to help your mood...

You hadn't made the connection that each of the three times Mantis came to your shared room to check on you, and would take your hand or place hers on your arm to ask how you were feeling, you felt a little more contented. You just assumed she was feeling affectionate and that you enjoyed her company.

Both of those were true, but Mantis had also been working her magic a little, wanting to see you cheer up but doing it in tiny doses so as to not ruin the practical joke Yondu had said would be real funny later if she didn't tell you about her abilities. She didn't know when the joke would be over, but she also didn't want to ruin it and disappoint her new friend.

Later that night you decided to break out a bottle of whiskey from the cellar. Try to get a buzz going. You brought it into the kitchen, asking those already at the table if they wanted any. Well, it was more like telling them that they knew where the glasses were if they wanted some, but still, an offer is an offer.

You sat down and poured yourself a glass as Peter grabbed a glass each for him and Gamora, and Kraglin fetched one for himself and Yondu.

Gamora was the first to speak. "I just wanted to aplogi-"

"No."

"What?"

"It's awkward enough without the apology. It's done. I'm sure you thought you were being helpful or something, but it's done."

Gamora raised an eyebrow in surprise. "Well I-"

You sigh. "Look, if it makes you feel better, you're forgiven or whatever, but I don't want to talk about it. 'Kay?" you down your glass and pour another. "Don't kill my buzz before it's even started."

Peter started to speak up. "Well I feel Krags and I at least-"

You cut him off as well. "Same goes for you. We're not going to talk about it right now. It's done."

"Oh...kay..." Peter said, taking a sip. He attempted small talk after a bit. "So... how did you come about working for SHIELD?"

You sipped and shrugged before setting your glass down. "My dad was an agent, and I guess I followed in his footsteps." you say, toying with your glass. Eager to turn the conversation away from you, you asked, "How'd you lot go about becoming 'Guardians of the Galaxy'?"

That question had the desired effect. Peter started off the story by telling you how it actually all started with them getting thrown in prison over a stone and then breaking out of said prison together to locate said powerful stone that some dick called Ronan was going to use to wipe out an entire planet.

About a quarter the way through the story the rest of the Guardians came and the same offer was extended to them before you stood up and announced you should probably grab another bottle as the one you brought up was nearly empty.

Rocket piped up, "So where ya hide it anyway?"

You looked at him, confused and a little tipsy. Cocking your head you asked, "What?"

"The booze. You always seem to pull it out of thin air. Figured you were hiding it."

You blink at him while Peter scolded him for being dumb, a sentiment you now currently shared. You laugh and look at Gamora, who looked embarrassed by her friend. "Is he always this dumb?" Not waiting for an answer you turn back to Rocket. "It ain't hidden. Dipshit." You turn away to resume your task.

Rocket, offended that you would call him dumb, said, "If you ain't hiding it, why haven't we ever seen where you keep it."

Now Kraglin was giving him looks. Even if you were hiding it, it was your shit. You were already giving them a place to stay, you didn't owe them booze too. The rest were sure Rocket was just trying to get a rise from you, but the secondhand embarrassment was real.

You rolled your eyes but kept walking. It was most likely the alcohol, but you were actually finding humor in his stupidity. "It's in the cellar, space case. I won't stop you from tagging along. Make sure your mother signs the permission slip." With that you slipped out the kitchen door.

The guardians exchanged glances at your comment and Peter, who remembered school and field trips, said, "That was a joke. You wouldn't get it." He then stood up and said, "Might as well take the chance to see something new since we don't know how long we'll be stuck here." He then looked to Rocket and asked if he was coming, since technically the invitation had been extended to him.

Rocket, who had been clearly hoping for, or at least expecting, a fight, awkwardly followed in the direction you had left. Mantis and Groot stated they wanted to go see the cellar too, but the others opted to stay behind.

Seeing that four of them had actually decided to take up your mock-offer to come to the cellar, you waited for them to catch up. You honestly didn't care if they went into the cellar, as long as Groot didn't go down there to play, and you made a point to ask Peter to tell him that you didn't mind him coming down with the rest of you tonight, but he was under no circumstances to come down there to play as he could get hurt.

Rocket translated instead, seeming irritated that you had given the message to Peter instead of him, and you open the door start to walking down the stairs, the others trailing behind.

The cellar wasn't anything spectacular. The stairs were a bit creaky with age, and it was dusty and dim even with the light on. The walls were stone strung with cobwebs and the floor was made up of old red brick.

You reached the ground and led them to some shelves on the wall across from the boiler, to grab the whiskey. On the other wall next to the shelves was an old wooden door, but other than that, a few cans of paint, and another set of shelves on the far end of the cellar, it was largely empty. You didn't keep much down there due to the damp.

You turned back to face them once you grabbed a bottle and asked if Rocket was satisfied. You didn't recieve an answer, not like you had expected one anyway. Gesturing back to the whiskey you said to Peter that it was down here if they wanted it. You didn't care as long as they didn't get sloppy drunk and start wrecking shit on the regular.

Peter nodded and the four took in the sight of the cellar. Mantis looked like she regretted her decision to come down, and said it was a little creepy, and Groot seemed to share her opinion. Good. Would mean he wouldn't care to come play down there. Peter and Rocket, however, looked at the shelf behind you in surprise. There was... more whiskey than they had anticipated. A lot more.

"Not that it's any of my business, but why do you have so much whiskey down here?"

You turned back to the shelf. Remembering the reason combined with your tipsy state made you giggle as you answered honestly. "Decided to order a small case awhile back just to have a bit around. Might have ordered it drunk and messed up the size of the order... just a bit..."

'A bit' was an understatement. The whiskey didn't sit on just one shelf, but rather the whiskey took up a whole shelving unit. You had only meant to order one case. A case would have been maybe six bottles. Somehow you ended up ordering six cases, and of course there were no refunds. So, into the cellar with a few other assorted bottles it went. You didn't do any online shopping while drunk after that again.

Peter chuckled at your honesty and noticed the wooden door for the first time. He debated asking about it, it seemed oddly placed considering the layout of the house above, but Mantis beat him to it.

"Where does that door go?" she asked, pointing to it.

You look to the door and then back to them. "Closet," you say, before widening your eyes in mock realization to tease Rocket. "Oh right, better prove it before that one gets all suspicious again!"

Rocket narrowed his eyes and crossed his arms, not thrilled with you making him the butt of a joke as you opened the door to reveal a small, dark closet, maybe a meter deep and just as wide. Pipe wrenches hung on hooks off the door, and inside was a bucket, a broom, and a shovel resting against a wall of shallow shelves which were empty aside from a few random tools and a couple lanterns.

You closed the door after a moment and to Peter's surprise you handed him the whiskey bottle you had retrieved and grabbed another. "Might as well grab two, save me a trip if we run out again," you explain before shooing them all up the stairs.

Once back in the kitchen you re-took your seat and poured yourself another glass before sliding the bottle towards the middle of the table for someone else to grab. "Alright, I believe you were telling a story now?" you say to Peter as he also sat down, seeming surprised you were still interested.

And you were. It was quite an interesting story and you had to admit it captured your attention quite well.

Before you knew it an hour had passed and the second bottle was finished between seven of you when they'd finished telling it. Mantis didn't like the taste and Groot wasn't permitted to have any, though fortunately he didn't seem to mind. Just sipped on some juice you had gotten up to pour for him and Mantis and played about on the table adorably as Peter told the story.

The Ronan guy had gotten the stone, but Peter and his team still won anyway, having managed to get the stone away from him. You had giggled when you realized that Peter had more or less described that they had used 'the power of friendship' to hold onto the stone, though he didn't seem as keen on that comparison. You were also surprised to learn that the little Groot before you wasn't the original Groot, but rather more like the original's son, and that Kraglin and Yondu weren't part of the team yet in this story, but actually the leaders of an almost adversary group of space pirates that had agreed to work with Peter with the promise of obtaining the stone for themselves. You wanted to ask about that, how they came about joining Peter's team and where the rest of their crew was, Ravagers you believed they were called, but before you could Yondu interjected.

"Yeah, I'd almost forgot about that switcharoo ya pulled with the stone, boy." Yondu said to Peter, who, now several drinks in, included that bit of the story despite the former captain and first mate sitting right at the table with him.

Peter chuckled nervously in response, and said in jest, "Well, you got a cool troll doll out of it, that's something, right?"

You snorted a short laugh out your nose at that, making the others turn to you in surprise. Aside from a few questions, you had been more or less quiet the whole time until now. "Troll doll?" you say, clearly tipsy, behind your hand. The thought was ludicrous to you. Of all the things, a troll doll.

Peter grinned, pleased to see you found it funny. "It was the only thing I had on hand that would fit in the orb." He admitted, giggling.

Gamora's eyes crinkled as she looked at Peter. She hadn't had nearly as much drink as him, but she still found his giggly nature and his ability to tell a story to be endearing. This was probably the most she had let herself relax since they arrived.

Kraglin lightheartedly punched Peter in the shoulder. He'd been angry when the "switcharoo" incident happened, but he'd since been given enough reason to get over it.

"You goofy cunt," you chuckled at Peter, standing from the table and grabbing the empty bottle to bin it.

Peter raised an eyebrow and cocked his head at you as you walked toward the bin. Had you just called him a 'cunt'?

The others shared surprised contemplative looks and Kraglin said, "I think that was a compliment?" He was unsure, but you hadn't exactly said it in a derogatory way, so perhaps it was?

You overheard him and said from the bin, "Eh. Close enough." You spared one final giggly glance towards the group before leaving the kitchen to use the bathroom.

Peter shrugged, correctly assuming that he shouldn't be offended and stood to put his now-empty glass in the sink before re-joining the table with the others.

They sat chatting for a bit longer, before they thought they heard the soft sounds of singing coming from the sitting room. Exchanging glances, Peter and Gamora decided to go check it out.

***

You didn't return to the kitchen after you finished your business. The story was finished and you were in a better mood than you had been that morning so you just made your way to the sitting room to relax in your rocking chair before your buzz could wear off.

You had been there just a few minutes with your eyes falling closed when the sensation of something crawling up your leg startled you. You jump slightly only to see it was Groot crawling into your lap. You then relaxed. Cute little bugger looked sleepy, and for whatever reason, decided he would crawl up into the rocking chair with you. You didn't mind, and even if you did, you were getting a little too sleepy to feel like wasting energy making him move.

He climbed up on your slinged arm, too light for the action to cause you any pain, and curled up as you rocked away.

You weren't sure what possessed you, likely the whiskey, but you started to softy sing him a lullaby. One you remembered your grandmother singing you to sleep with when you were little.

***

Gamora peeked in the doorway and stopped, seeing you in the rocking chair, though you didn't see her. The rocking chair faced the bookshelf on the opposite wall, putting your gaze perpendicular to her own.

You were the source of the singing, and it didn't take long for her to notice Groot curled up sleeping against you and to deduce that what you were singing was a lullaby.

The others had come to see as well, but Gamora motioned for them to be quiet and didn't let them get past the doorway, afraid that you would stop if you knew you had an audience.

"What is it?" Drax asked.

"I think she's singing a lullaby to Groot." Peter answered, turning to peek back through the doorway for a moment before stepping aside to let Drax see. Drax smiled warmly at the sight and motioned Mantis to take his spot.

Kraglin chuckled and whispered over to an equally amused Yondu, "Well ain't that precious."

"So what?" asked Rocket, annoyed that everyone was gathered by the doorway instead of entering. He was, however, definitely not jealous that Groot would have taken to you well enough to let you sing a lullaby to him. He was also definitely not irritated about the fact that Groot had aparently just fallen right asleep in your lap, when he had been having to deal with Groot fitting to go to sleep most nights due to being someplace new.

Gamora looked to him. "It's sweet."

"She ain't sweet, it's all an act. She don't really care."

"So it was an act when she shot that raccoon and saved your ass?" asked Peter, rolling his eyes at his furry friend.

Rocket threw up his arms in frustration, unwilling to admit the possibility of being wrong. "Probably! She don't really care about us. We're just an assignment to her. And I didn't need her help anyway."

Peter rolled his eyes again, and that's when they noticed the singing had stopped. They were too busy arguing to notice it had been getting softer and softer. Gamora peeked in again and saw that you had fallen asleep, and she whispered back to the group as such.

"Good. I'm putting Groot to bed." Rocket said, pushing through the others before they could say anything.

"Rocket!" Gamora hissed, finally entering the room herself along with Peter.

Rocket ignored her as he approached the rocking chair. Who did you think you were anyway, singing lullabies to Groot? You weren't his mother. He was the one raising Groot, he didn't need some Terran dickhead stepping in and playing 'mommy.' Rocket let his frustration get the better of his sense and instead of gently climbing to retrieve Groot, or asking someone else once he realized he wouldn't quite be able to reach, he decided to be an asshole and jump right into your lap, startling both you and Groot awake in the process.

"Ow! The hell?" you said groggily, rubbing your eyes.

"Oh, sorry. Did I wake you?" Rocket said mockingly before walking off with a confused and groggy Groot.

The others gave him disapproving looks as they dispersed, not wanting to crowd the doorway any longer.

"You're a real asshole, ya know that?" Kraglin said before heading towards the stairs with Yondu. Rocket just ignored him.

Mantis, who also decided she would go to bed, said to Rocket as they climbed, "You're wrong, you know. She does care. I've felt it."

Rocket just rolled his eyes and said, "Whatever," before bounding up the rest of the stairs and to his room to put Groot down to sleep.

Peter and Gamora had decided to head back into the kitchen with Drax to clean up the forgotten empty glasses on the table, so by the time you got up and decided to head to bed yourself the hall was empty.

Too tired to do anything else, you decided to just go to bed. As you made your way up the stairs you remembered taking the others to the cellar and showing them what was behind the door, and wondered if you should consider getting a lock, just in case Groot disobeyed and decided to go play down there anyway.

They didn't need to find out what was behind the back wall of that closet.

[stellocchia]

Okay, time for another overly long analysis of our favourite green blob with a god complex and traumatized teen!

I will be discussing both the “Trapped in prison with Dream” stream and the “Am I dead?” stream as I think they should be analyzed together, so espect spoilers for those. It also goes without saying that, from here on out, unless stated otherwise, I’ll be talking about the characters and the roleplay only!

So here we go! More under the cut and be advised that this will be a long one!

First of all it’s essential to keep in mind that Dream’s view of his relationship with Tommy is extremely different from Tommy’s. I will be going more into details as the analysis proceeds, but it’s very clear by now that Dream is under the delusion that Tommy’s attachment to him is as strong as his for Tommy. 

We have multiple examples of this, but the strongest one (until the revival stream at least) was back in the season 2 finale when he kept believing that Tommy wouldn’t kill him as he wouldn’t kill Tommy. We also have instances like him saying “exile wasn’t that bad, you had me” and his insistence on them having “so much fun together” that all point to the conclusion of Dream believing their game is played on both side.

Tommy, on the other hand, made it abundantly clear that he despises Dream entirely. He recognizes that Dream actively makes him a worse person when they’re together and he recognizes that he abused and manipulated him along with many others. Tommy doesn’t reciprocate Dream’s obsession in the slightest and actually seems extremely taken aback any time the green man proposes the idea of them being a theme. 

On that last point it’s interesting to notice that the actual idea of them working together (Tommy and Dream vs the world style) is actually something new that Dream introduced with his stay in prison. Proposing they could “escape tigether” when they first ended up stuck there and even more in the two latest streams... Dream’s interpretation of their relationship seems to have shifted from “fated nemesis who have fun together” to “friends”. No, this is not a positive shift, and I’m not framing it as one. Dream’s idea of friendship is as twisted as can be and Tommy has zero say in the matter. 

Now that the introduction is done, let’s get to the actual analysis!

Trapped in prison with Dream

So the stream starts with Tommy trying his best to annoy the Hell out of Dream. Then PussBoy is introduced... 

One thing to point out is that Tommy seems to fear silence and lonliness over everything (as we’ll see proof of later on), so it’s honestly no surprise that he would not be able to bear the silence for too long. 

“The cat is the best thing that’s happened to us” Dream is already sort of shifting from the “me” talk to the “us” talk, which is rather interesting. That also mirrors his “You being stuck here is the best thing that’s happened to me since I got to prison” statement.

Then there is the interaction with Sam where he decided to leave Tommy in there longer in order to solve the issue. We also get a very rare instance of Tommy showing a lot of his vulnerability, talking about exile (though it’s clear he doesn’t know Sam knows as much as he does about exile), which promptly gets ignored in favour of Sam continuing to work on the security issue.

A few seconds after Sam left Dream already burns the new clock. The reason he’s doing it is obviously to keep Tommy in a more vulnerable state of mind by continiously insuring he has no way to tell how much time has passed. All the while acting like it’s no big deal of course. Like his actions aren’t deliberate.

“What if we get out together?” “No, no! Because then you’ll break out with me, I don’t want you to break out with me” Dream already gave a similar proposition when they had just got stuck together and, again, the reason why this is so important, is because it seems to indicate a shift in Dream’s mind between the “me vs you” mentality to the “me and you vs the rest”. 

There is then the whole debacle with PussBoy where he’s killed. There isn’t really much reaction from Dream for it (really, Tommy shows more panic about it then Dream does any emotion. Please people, re-watch that scene and stop using the damn cat as a motivator there). “Look Tommy, I’m gonna get out” is literally his only reaction. That and saying that Tommy is and always has been his motivator: “You motivated me, well, you motivate me all the time”. It really couldn’t be clearer here.

“I’ll get out and, when I do, I’ll get my revenge” (...) “On who” “On everyone who’s wronged me” “Oh on fucking everyone won’t you! You’ll go and you’ll kill fucking... you wouldn’t kill anyone would you? You wouldn’t, you wouldn’t kill someone (long pause)... of course you fucking would...” Now, why did I highlight this whole thing? Well, because there’s a lot to unpack here. 

1) Dream is still fully of the idea that he was in the right, hence his desire to get revenge on “those who wronged him”. His mentality has not shifted at all so we can conclude, once and for all, that his “meek” act during most of the visit was indeed just that: an act. 

2) Callback to Tommy saying he feels like his brain is “wired to be Dream’s friend”, despite having already been killed 2 times by Dream, Tubbo more recently almost dying to him and knowing what he is capable of in general, it still takes him quite a bit to remember that yes, Dream would kill someone, he would hurt people. Tommy still has a hard time admitting to what happened to him and the impact Dream has had on him and he’s not entirely out of Dream’s manipulation (once again, good representation, because you don’t heal from something like that in a month), he is however now better at recognizing it and correcting his own faulty thinking. 

“I have a plan” I did not notice this on first watch, but was Dream’s plan to send Tommy to the afterlife from the start? Or, at least, to send someone there so he could study it? It could very well have been. He’s shown in the next stream that he wanted talk to Schlatt immediately asking Tommy about him once he was back. We can’t however ignore that he mentione that “someone who owes him a favour” may be a part of his escape plan, so that feels rather important for the future once he’ll have brought Willbur back to life. 

So then there is more of fight that start. Dream is getting annoyed at Tommy’s “whining” and tries to make him see things from his perspective (aka “it’s not so bad because we have each other” again with the trying to establish their “friendship”). 

“You don’t have ME, you never have ME, we don’t have each other, alright? I am me and you are this fucking looser who goes around manipulating people and lying to get what he wants” What this is is 2 things: 

1) Tommy recognizing what Dream is trying to do, the subtext of what he’s saying and refuting his claims (hurray for the bit of healing he’s had!)

2) Tommy actually recognizing the possessive side of the claims Dream keeps making. I don’t see this talked about that much, but, to Dream, Tommy is most definitely his propriety, just like Tommy’s disks were Dream’s in his mind (remember that speach? He literally referred to them as “my disks”). I mean, he clearly acts like that’s the case, enphasizing time and time again how he has absolute power over Tommy (I’ll go a bit more into it towards the end of the analysis of the other stream, for now though, keep this in mind)

“Even when I’m in here I’m more powerful then you are when you are outside” back on the theme of Dream’s God Complex I see. He seems to like showing off as often as he can “how powerful he is and how powerless Tommy is” (in Dream’s words from the season 2 finale), though that’s most probably to keep enforcing the dynamic that he already established in exile, the whole thing with Tommy being entirely dependent on Dream. He seems to like that aspect of their dynamic as he has expressed multiple times his appreciation for that specific period of time. 

“If I wanted to, right now, I could just kill you. And the only reason I’m NOT is because of my friends, for Tubbo, because WE need that fucking revive book, alright? That’s the only reason I’m not killing you” well, I mean, we’ve known this for quite a while. The only reason Dream got to keep his last life was because of Tommy’s attachment to his friends. I’ve seen a few people saying that it was specifically to revive Wilbur and, while that may have been an idea at first, by now he had already shown multiple times that that was not the case (even before spending time with him in the afterlife). When he went to “Wilbur’s revival” (the failed one) he showed that he was already incredibly uncertain about wanting Wilbur back (describing him as “not so poggers” in very Tommyinnit fashion). No, the actual reason why he wants the book is most likely because Tubbo is on his last life and we know he can’t live without his best friend. 

“Tommy, I’m never, I am NEVER EVER going to use the revive book to help you or any of your stupid little friends, okay?” So now the question is: was this a lie or a twisted version of the truth?

I’m gonna say the latter and here is why: Dream DID, in fact, revive Tommy. We know this now, it’s canon. But he really didn’t do it FOR Tommy. One thing I want to make clear is this: while Dream may, in fact, consider himself and Tommy “friends” he doesn’t CARE for Tommy himself, not in a way that’s commonly considered as “caring” at the very least. He finds him fun, entertaining and he seems to be rather dependent on him, but NONE of this things equate to caring about HIM. So, now that that’s cleard up, the resons why he revived him in the first place should be rather obvious: 

1) He wanted to see if he could and learn more about his power in general

2) As I said before, there is a degree of dependency Dream has on Tommy. It’s very obvious in the fact that, despite having let go of every other attachment, he doesn’t seem able of letting go of Tommy, not permanently anyway. He seems to actually need to have a degree of control over Tommy at all times

“I will never use the revive book. I will NEVER use it on you, I will never use it on any of your friends, I will never use it to save ANY of you” now THIS one is a straight up lie. What Dream was trying to do here was provoking Tommy enough to see if he’d actually kill Dream or not (which was a useful information for him for later). To see if Tommy could bring himself to do it (he can’t)

“I’ll get out eventually because, either you’ll let me out or... people will be dead” way to be ominous green man! We could assume by this point that his plan to escape may have been along the lines of “getting Techno to repay him by killing one of Tommy’s friends therefore forcing him to let Dream out to bring them back”, or something of the sort.

“This isn’t worse then exile (...) because in exile I thought you had all the power (...) here’s the thing Dream, here’s the thing I know: I don’t think the revive- I- how could I be so fucking...? The revive book Dream, it’s not real is it?” Here is where things start to actually go downhill fast. There is nothing Dream hates more then Tommy questioning his power, there is nothing that makes him angry faster (I’m sure the whole “I don’t give a fuck about Spirit” speach comes to everyone’s mind when I say this, as it should). Dream, as much as he presents himself to be a logical mastermind, is actually very emotional in the way that he is very easily overtaken by anger. He does irrational stuff every time he gets mad, that’s no secret. If he wasn’t already planning to kill Tommy to test his power, this push is what convinced him to do it. Also this is the exact reason why he likes Tommy (weirdly enough, their relationship is so very complicated) in the first place, because he’s the only one who’s constantly questioning him and challenging him. 

As we know the fight escalated and Dream ended up killing Tommy telling him to ask “Schlatt” about the book. Though before that there are quite a few exchanges were Tommy expresses that he thinks Dream is powerless now and was lying about the book all along because that’s generally what he does and Dream keeps insisting that he’s not lying and that Tommy’s life is still in his hands, that he still has all the power (turns out he wasn’t so wrong...). 

Also, last line to analyze from this: “I might as well be a God Tommy! You can’t kill me and I can kill you” pretty sure this is the first time Dream outwardly announces his God Complex and it’s interesting that his idea of power revolves entirely around having power over Tommy specifically. Because, even having power over Tommy’s life he’s still in prison, he stil has no real power of any kind. Everyone on the outside still hates him (aside from the anarchist duo), they still aren’t letting him out. Who comes to see him and what he can keep in his cell is still entirely dependent on Sam and not on him. But the fact that he has power over Tommy is enough to make him a God in Dream’s eyes.

Am I dead?

Fisrst things first, the afterlife part:

It seems that we may be seeing pieces of conversation had at different times. Let me explain myself:

Tommy opens up asking if he’s dead, then he has an interaction with Wilbur that sounds like it could be their first interaction after his Tommy’s death as Wilbur asks how he’s doing. 

We know however that he’s been ther for at least 2 months, probably more considering he seems to have interacted with Schlatt, but Schlatt has been comatose for 3 months. We could then assume that what we see is a sort of very short montage of Tommy’s time in the afterlife.

The next scene we have Tommy asking “How long is left?” (we don’t know what he’s referring to, though it could be to his revival) and Wilbur responds saying that, to the end of the Universe it would be still 8 eons. Then Wilbur asks him to play competitive solitary and they randomly chat for a bit.

New change of topic (probably next scene again) we have Wilbur telling Tommy he’s happy Tommy is there (dead) with him as the tw of them were never good for the server and caused all the problems (which we know to be incorrect, but it was Wilbur’s mentality at the time of his death and it makes sense that he would have kept it). Tommy also has a very clear panic attack which Wilbur generally ignores. Wilbur also says that, if he’s brought back to life, he knows for a fact that the server will be in shambles because, in his words: “I know what I’m like, that’s the issue”. 

Like it or not people Wilbur is most definitely implying that he knows he wasn’t a good person and that he won’t be different when he comes back. Simple as that. It’s also a further confirmation of his self-deprecating nature that brought him to self-destruct in the first place.

There is another pause that we could consider a cut scene and Wilbur is then talking about making a solitaire arena in a couple of months to an exasperated Tommy

Now for the revival itself:

First thing we notice once Tommy is back to life is that he’s most definitely experiencing a sensory overload. He’d gotten used to living in a colorless dimension with almost no sounds (aside from Wilbur’s and Mexican Dream’s voices I’m guessing) and no sense of touch aside from the constant pain that being back on the living plain may be quite ovewhelming for him.

“So what was it like?” Dream doesn’t loose a beat once Tommy is back before starting to ask him questions. He literally sounds like an eager kid who just got a new toy (and I gotta commend cc!Dream for the voice acting here!). The book worked and now he needs to find out exactly to what extent he can use it (the idea of immortality being on his mind as we’ll see later).

“Void, it was dark, it was all dark” “There was Schlatt, there was Mexican Dream” “There’s so many more drugs then just alcohol” “Mexican Dream, he was there, which was confusing, he was loud. And then there was Wilbur...” “(Continuation from below) and then I came out and I was in a long long hole, a tunnel of black and void, not even black just colorless” “When I was there it all felt so real, but so torn apart. It felt like I was in pieces, like I was stomped on” This is our best description of the Afterlife so far. A static void with no colors or viable sensations, with only 3 known residents now that Tommy is not there any longer. A weird reality with a seemingly entirely different set of rules to our own.

“Death felt like my body was taken apart and then put together and then taken apart and put together here. It felt stretched man” “It felt like I was shredded to dust” “No it didn’t feel goo- it felt like I was put through a shredder, but there was no blood, there was no flesh it was just essence, like a powder and I was put through (continues in previous section)” This is Tommy’s complete description of his experience with death and what it felt like. Having to stay for months with this constant sensation it’s really no surprise he would be so hypersensitive to touch.

“Honestly I was kind of scared it wouldn’t work” So, here we got another indication of the fact that, while Dream killed Tommy in rage, having him stay dead was never his intention (despite him claiming he would never use the book on Tommy a couple of days prior). He never intended to severe his last attachment (I’m honestly not sure he even CAN seeing as how dependent he actually seem on Tommy), he literally only killed him because he was mad Tommy would question him and wanted to prove a point, but to prove his point in the first place he needed Tommy back. It’s also probably why he revived him so fast, his weird need to have control over Tommy, which he couldn’t have while Tommy was dead.

Why did he care so much about Tommy not believing him on the book, you may ask? Was it to save his own skin? It’s possible and I think that’s part of it, others being convinced that the only reason they kept Dream alive was a lie could cause his death. The other reason is that he seems, as I said before, to want to shift his and Tommy’s dynamic to an “us vs the world” type of deal, which would require Tommy in particular to believe everything he says.

We can now add being hit at all by Dream to Tommy’s ever growing list of trauma triggers as he seems to have a very vivid recollection of his death by Dream’s hands... also we need to point out their body language in this: Dream is constantly trying to get close to Tommy as much as he’s constantly insisting on getting more information, while Tommy alternates between getting close to Dream and pushing him away (could be he’s both seeking some kind of comfort, but is also very overwhelmed).

“Tell me, one more time: what was it like when you died?” “Did it feel good?” Dream’s insistence and exitment about Tommy’s very obvious extreme distress is honestly concerning, but expected. By now we can safely assume that he doesn’t really have any empathy, I know, bold claim, but is there any evidence to refute it? Any evidence at all? Because, so far, he has shown a distinct lack of empathy in any and all situations...

Another interesting thing was Tommy’s reaction to Dream’s probing questions: while he seemed to get increasingly distressed by them, he kept answering Dream every time with little hesitation only at times adding on things like calling Dream a monster for the way he was treating him. I honestly think this may have been because he was in desperate need of comfort, and having someone to confide into is part of that. And Dream was the only “someone” he had there.

We then get the whole exchange about how time in the Afterlife is different then in the normal plain of existence. I’ve seen people equate 1 day to 1 month, however that’s incorrect. That was Dream’s wrong assumption but, from whet Tommy said, we can guess that it was much more then that. Frist of all, the first month and 18-20 days Schlatt was still awake and he was the one making them keep count. That said, we know Schlatt has been asleep for around 3 months (we don’t know exactly how much as they lost count). Which means that Tommy’s stay in the Afterlife was much more around 5 months then 2, meaning 1 day in the Real World should equate to roughly 2.5 months in the Afterlife give or take. That is, of course, assuming time there moves in a regular way and there is an actual correspondence between Real World time and Afterlife time, which is not a given.

Tommy keeps asking for the people he find reassurance in (at least we can assume so) which, in this case, are: Tubbo, Jack, Phil, Fundy an Sapnap. It’s a pretty weirdly matched group of people but, apparently, they are the ones Tommy seeks out when he’s distressed. It would be interesting to see an analysis of his relationship with each of them, but this one is not about that I’m afraid. 

“Wait shut- shut up! Shut up! Sorry, I’m sorry” Tommy seems to have re-acquired some of his exile mannerism such as being overly apologetic and skittish, together with the lashing out more. None of this are good signs... he had just started healing as well...

“I... I’m a God! I can bring people back to life, I wasn’t even sure that I could, but I can!” Bringing Tommy back to life worsened Dream’s God Complex even further, because now he doesn’t only have power over Tommy, but everyone else as well. And, I mean... at this point he IS basically a God, he’s not even wrong on that. 

“Dream, Dream, listen to me. The things I saw, the things he talked about, the things he said he will and the things he WILL do... do not- promise me, never EVER bring back Wilbur! Please, please, please” In case anyone was wondering this is the exact thing Tommy said on Wilbur. He didn’t say he’s worse then Dream here, but he IS bad news, at least if we trust Tommy on it. Wilbur wasn’t only self-destructive when alive, he was destructive in general. He was dangerous to others as much as he was to himself and he DID hurt people. And this side of him seems to only have been accentuated by death.

 “Do NOT bring back Wilbur. Ever! Promise me you’ll never do that, alright? Dream, Dream, you are nothing, you’re nothing, you’re fine Dream! We can be friends if you don’t bring him back! You’re not even- all the tragedies you’ve done-” and here’s the part that I’m guessing people are interpreting as Tommy saying Wilbur is worst then Dream which is... a fair interpretation actually (considering that Tommy is not a reliable narrator). Now please don’t get me wrong, Alivebur as he was, wasn’t worse then Dream, but he had years in the afterlife to become even more radicalized in his beliefs. There is also the fact that Tommy doesn’t seem to put the harm done against him on the same level as that done against others: Dream has hurt Tommy worse then Wilbur ever did, but Wilbur’s potential harm against others might be greater in Tommy’s mind then Dream’s. That’s the reason why he’s offering something he knows Dream wants, which is his friendship, in order to keep Wilbur from coming back: because he truly doesn’t care about his own wellbeing as long as others are safe. Of course Dream’s response to this is: "It’s not up to you. It’s up to me because I- I have that control” which is very in character for the green blob with a God Complex

“What if, now that we know, we could send you back and you could figure out-” We can see that Dream has an utter fascination with this whole concept and, now that he knows revival works, he has no qualms with sending Tommy back (no matter how obviously traumatic it was for him) to get further information because, guess what? Death is not in any way an escape anymore. He can simply pull Tommy back as he pleases.

There is then the exchange about burning the book, but, as Dream has it memorized, they would need to kill Dream to get rid of the knowledge, but Tommy can’t bring himself to do it because he’s even more terrified of being stuck alone in the cell then he is of Dream bringing Wilbur back. 

“I wanna know about death. We can study it! We can study it together! We can become immortal together!” Again, if there were any doubts on Dream’s constant need of having Tommy under his control, this should dissolve them. There is truly not much more he can do to show how obsessed he is then offering Tommy to be immortals together, especially because we know that the ideal for him would be to have Tommy be completely dependent on him again. To have his favourite puppet under his control for eternity apparently... “I want absolutely fucking nothing to do with you” of course, as we said many times, Tommy doesn’t view their relationship in the same way. Tommy actually hates Dream and truly doesn’t want anything to do with him.

“You owe me your life” “Owe you my life? You beat m-!” Who’d know that Dream had some similar arguments to his apologists huh? But this does show how warped his view of reality is. I mean, he’s fully aware that he beat Tommy to death, but he still think Tommy should be grateful to him for bringing him back. 

“Now you can tell everyone that the book exists, that I'm not a liar!” Dream really went hard with the whole God Complex thing, even going as far as choosing his profet huh? Man’s just on a high horse and will never get down...

“Everyone... is my puppet” Welp, this is the culmination of his God Complex. The realisation that he has absolute power of life and death over everyone else. That he can play with them as he pleases. Also, may I add that, for basically this whole stream, he has used the “soft voice” he tends to do with Tommy whenever he’s trying to get him to comply? Like, I’m mentioining it now because it was particularly obvious in this last exchange, but it’s been there on and off the WHOLE time. 

“You killed me to prove your own point. You could have just showed me! You could have just- this is so evil. This is- this is- this isn’t like before. This isn’t you’ve blown up and- you’ve put me through torture, through pain, to prove a point, that’s fucked! You can’t do that to me... to anyone!” It took almost half an hour but Tommy has finally come to the full realisation of what happened to him, of why it happened and he’s honestly very understandably distraught about it (though it is to be said that it's arguably quite good that he understands that it wasn't okay for him either to be put through that as he tends to downplay his own suffering greatly). He has been through something unimaginable for us because Dream was upset that he didn’t believe him about the book. That’s all there was to it, that’s all the reason for his suffering. Like, he’s not wrong at all when he describes Dream as a monster, that’s literally the only accurate description of him. No normal person would put someone else through this for such a petty reason. 

“You’re soft Dream, you’re soft” Another valid point by Tommy. While Dream IS undoubtedly extremely powerful and extremely clever, he’s also petty, stubborn and childish. He throws violent temper tanrtums every time someone (especially Tommy) disagrees with him and mostly gets away with his bs because he has the power to back them up. That said he hardly ever lost, the only true loss he had was being locked in prison, and he managed to turn even that in his favour! But that’s the think: loosing makes you stronger, it often teaches you a lot and pushes you to get better. He (along with a couple of others) basically never had that. Tommy’s been through literal Hell and he survived that, he knows he can survive that. Dream? He may break at the first real hardship as far as we know!

“I’ll let you free, I’ll let you free alright? We’ll call for Sam, we’ll get him in here, he’ll let you out, but... I’m gonna bring back Wilbur and Wilbur- Wilbur is gonna help me escape” 2 things to unpack here (aside from the fact that he’s using the “soft voice” to say something extremely disturbing again):

1) Dream is, once again asserting his power over Tommy in two ways: by frasing it in a way that implies that it’s up to Dream wether Tommy leaves or not and by confirming again that Wilbur’s resurrection is entirely up to him and that Tommy’s opinion on the matter is utterly worthless

2) He fully intends to use Wilbur as a puppet as well because, as he says a bit later, if he brings him back then Wilbur will be indebted to him

And that’s how it’s concluded! 

My closing thoughts on this are that, generally, Dream’s level of dependence on Tommy seems to worsen as fast as his God Complex. man went from telling him that their story “would never be over” to offering him immortality in the span of little over a month. Tommy is Not Doing Good, AT ALL, but I’m hoping he’ll ask for help this time from other people because he literally cannot deal with this on his own. Wilbur will not be good news, but what he’ll do is still entirely uncertain, it is to be pointed out however that, at the beginning, his frasing at a certain point sounded scarily similar to Dream’s idea of “us vs the world” when he said that him and Tommy specifically are the single cause of conflict. I hope I’m wrong there because the LAST thing Tommy needs is another obsessive God-like individual in his life!

@mysweatymakerstudentworld

[wheresmybuckyhoes]

The 3 forbidden words

Summary: What does Bucky do when you accidently let slip the 3 words everyone fears to say first in a relationship?

Pairing: Bucky Barnes x reader

Warnings: Angst, loss of loved ones, swearing, references to sex, depression, numbness

This is another wonderful ask from @summerdaughter. This is quite an angsty fic, but as promised I ended it with a lot of fluff. Enjoy my lovelies x

*2 years ago*

You let out a satisfied sigh as you finished leafing through the mission briefing, sliding a rusted paper clip onto the thick stack of paper to hold it all together. You tossed it carelessly onto your bed side table, reaching over with a small groan to switch of the night light. You fell back into the warm embrace of your bed, eyes fluttering shut. Finally some rest. Finally you can silence your thoughts and drift off into blissful sleep. Finally you can quieten thoughts that you don’t dare let yourself think of even for second, for fear you will spiral back into the numbness that had consumed you since Thanos... Finally, you can sleep. But almost as soon as relief washes over you, your body tenses up once more and you see their faces in the darkness, eyes snapping open, you almost cry out into the silence.

You always hear people blaming a restless night or two on stress, insomnia or having a lot on their mind. No one ever talks about what losing that which you love can do to a person, when you’re all alone in your bed, accompanied by only the still silence of the empty room you spend most of your time in and your own prison - cell of a mind. It’s then, in the dead of night, that you miss them most. You miss their playful jokes, the way they would laugh with you, the way they would cry with you, the way their touch felt upon your skin. You missed Tony’s stupid inventions he gifted you when you were sad. You missed the feeling of Nat’s careful fingers braiding your hair when you were too tired to do so. You missed feeling like nothing could hurt you ever again when you were in Steve’s arms. For most, when darkness fell like a blanket upon the Earth, it was time to go to sleep. Not you, apparently.

You pushed yourself out from between the blankets, exposed feet making contact with the cool wooden floor. You swept the hair off your neck into a loose ponytail, the slight draft from the open window tickling your nape. You didn’t mind it in the slightest. You cringed at every creak and whinge of the floorboards, knowing you wouldn’t forgive yourself for waking Sam or Peter who both also barley got enough sleep as it is. You mindlessly made your way to the kitchen, lost in thought. You wanted some sort of alcoholic drink, something to dull your senses and numb your body. Maybe you would make some tea and spike it with vodka, or maybe you would just skip the tea and go straight for the vodka. You were surprised to find Bucky pulled up to the bar as you turned the corner, sipping generously on a whiskey, your breath catching as you took in his moon - lit frame. He was wearing grey sweatpants, tied loosely, but evidently he had chosen to wear nothing to cover his toned back which you found oddly calming to watch as he inhaled and exhaled slowly. You tried to match your speed with his, only just now noticing how quickly you had been breathing. He turned around, not a single hint of surprise or shock registering on his face as he beckoned with his head for you to sit beside him. You obliged gratefully, happy to have some company for once.

*one week ago*

‘and Wanda?’ you ask, Doctor Strange’s hologram stood in front of you as you nibbled on some toast. ‘We’re not sure. Last we heard, she had broken into some SWORD facility. I’ll update you if we find anything else’ he replied, giving you a sad smile with a million different meanings behind it. ‘...and how are we dealing with Morgan?’ you asked, voice breaking as you tried not to think about how she has to grow up without a father, just like you did. ‘Pepper is doing just fine with Happy’s help. Don’t worry about her, y/n. You’ve got enough on your plate as it is’, Strange replied sympathetically. You nodded dutifully, thanking him and switching off the device. ‘They’ll find her, y/n. Don’t worry. They have to’ Peter comforted you, patting your shoulder apologetically. He may not have known Wanda for long, but he knew how close you two were, and don’t get me started on how closely he sympathised with Morgan Stark. 

Peter soon left after he had downed a few cups of shitty coffee, promising to return in the afternoon. You had seen him try to grab his suit without you noticing, but you decided to leave him be, saying nothing to Sam as he also left to go help out with something in Wakanda. You had been alone for an hour or so at most when Bucky strolled in, humming to himself a song which seemed all too familiar. ‘What’s that song. I know it’ you questioned, patting the couch as Bucky slumped down beside you. ‘I don’t know the name, doll’ he sighed, swinging his arm around the back of your shoulders, in a way that almost seemed like he was sort of shielding you. You always felt safe beside Bucky. You pulled his face against yours, kissing him softly as he cupped your face gently with his metallic fingers. ‘I was worried Spidey boy was going to hog you forever’ Bucky laughed, brushing his thumb over your bottom lip making you giggle. You sighed contently as you melted into his warm embrace, inhaling his heavenly, euphoric scent. Without thinking, the 3 forbidden words poured out of your mouth before you could stop yourself. I love you. Withdrawing his hand abruptly, you noticed Bucky’s eyes widen slightly in a panic, his hands meeting each other in his lap, flesh fingers tracing over metal ones as he always did when he was uncomfortable. ‘...this couch. I love this couch’ you corrected yourself awkwardly, not wanting to make eye contact for fear of tears from your eyes at once, like blood from a wound. Uncontrollable, painful.

But as Bucky laughed nervously, getting up to grab a mug of tea, you bit your lip in deep thought. You had been dating for almost 2 years, now. It was easy, and made sense, finding comfort in each-other after suffering the same loses. It had been going well, even better than well. Great. You had slept together after only a few weeks, finding his touch not only pleasurable, but comforting, almost filling one of the many holes puncturing your heart. You never felt the need to label yourself, confident that Bucky wanted and felt the same as you, reciprocating your love for him. But what if you were wrong?

But if he felt the same as you, why then, was he so scared of saying ‘I love you’ back? You got up, shaking slightly as you walked around the kitchen island to stand in front of him. ‘I love you, Bucky’ you stated, looking him straight in those big blue eyes. Bucky on the other hand suddenly found his cup of tea super interesting, staring at it intently. You shook your head with frustration, taking the cup out of his hand and placing it down harshly on the countertop with a sharp bang, tea spilling over the sides. ‘Why won’t you say it back, Barnes?’.

Bucky almost choked on air as ‘Barnes’ fired from your mouth. Now he knew you were angry, but he didn’t understand. ‘I don’t understand’ he said truthfully, finally finding your eyes with his own. ‘Why do we need to say it out loud when we’re both thinking it anyway?’ he asked you, a look of genuine confusion splayed across his face. ‘That’s what people like us usually do’ you replied, reminding yourself to hold your tongue carefully and not let your bad - temper take over.

‘What do you mean, people like us?’ he continued with his previous style of stupid questioning, and you wondered how someone could be this daft. ‘A couple, Bucky! Boyfriend and girlfriend. People who are dating. Lovers. Partners. Must I continue?’ you replied, losing your patience with him. You had already been through so much pain, did he really need to inflict even more. ‘I told you when we started this thing, doll, I wasn’t ready to date. I had just lost Steve...’ you noticed a slight waver in his voice at the mention of Steve, and you too slightly winced upon hearing the name of your beloved friend who had left you both when you needed him most. At the same time, hearing him call you doll when you were so enraged just ticked you off even more. ‘...and I wasn’t ready to be romantically involved with anyone’ he finished, waiting to see your reaction. If ever there was a time for Bucky to be scared, it was now.

You bit down harshly on your tongue to stop yourself from crying, because you knew once you let the pain in, it would never stop. ‘But it’s been 2 years Bucky. I thought...’ you waved your hand dismissively in the air as if you were waving an actual thought away. ‘So it was just sex to you?’ you finally dared ask, the question almost a punch to Bucky’s gut, causing him to writhe under your burning gaze. ‘No, doll, no it wasn’t just sex I never -‘ he tried to scramble for some sort of logical explanation, but you were hurt beyond belief.

You exhaled humorously, laughing to yourself. ‘You’re the winter soldier, Bucky. Enhanced to live many more years than the average human. You and Steve both. Need I remind you I’m just a weak mortal, like them. Just like Tony, and Nat, and look where they ended up. Dead’ you spoke the last word with such pain and sharpness, it was like you had stabbed Bucky with one of his own knives, and Bucky almost trembled. You forgot he could hear your heartbeat, part of the perks of being ‘enhanced’, as you called it, and your heart was racing faster and faster with every passing moment. All he could do was listen to it race away, and try not to let his own one break.

‘You may still have battles to fight. People to avenge, people to make amends with. But I am so done with this bullshit Bucky. I’ve lost enough to know that I never want to kill another soul again. Thanos was the last. Thanos is the last. I want to settle down. Maybe even start a family one day, I don’t fucking know. I was hoping it could be with you’ Bucky tried to interject but you held up a red tipped finger, silencing him.

‘If your not ready, that’s fine. I’m ok with that. You know why, Barnes? Because I fucking love you, and I’ll never stop loving you, till the end of the line’  your lip quivered with that last sentence, shoving him back and racing to the elevator to escape this place, to escape him. You don’t know how many hours you were gone for, but when you came back, he was gone.

*now*

‘It’s not your fault he’s gone, y/n. Don’t you dare blame yourself, he made his choice’ Sam spoke gently, a solemn, understanding look passing between him and Peter. You plastered a fake smile on your face, one not quite reaching your eyes as you reassured them you weren’t blaming yourself. A lie.

Bucky was gone when you came back the day of your fight, all that was left was a note scrawled in his old-fashioned handwriting. You noticed parts of the ink was slightly smudged in an odd sort of way, like salted tears had fallen upon it. I’m sorry doll. I love you so much, I really do. I’m just so unbelievably scared that if we became serious, I would just end up hurting you, just like I did them. You blinked back tears, realising he was referring to Steve, Nat and Tony. ‘It’s not your fault baby’, you whispered to the empty room.

The ringing of the doorbell stirred you from your thoughts, causing you to jump. ‘Wait here’ Sam commanded you as him and Peter entered the elevator and travelled down to see who was bothering what was left of the avengers. You watched the numbers go all the way from 6 down to 0 as the elevator evidently reached the ground floor.

A few minutes passed. You sat at the kitchen table, sipping gingerly on that shitty coffee you all loved so much before you heard the elevator ding as it slid open to reveal Sam, Peter and Bucky stood inside. It was then that Peter suddenly decided he had to help Sam with ‘stuff’, as the spider boy so poetically and subtly put it. You glared at the boys as they shuffled around in the small elevator, swiftly making a getaway, as Bucky timidly stepped out. You crossed your arms.

‘Back again so soon? Here to hurt your other friends?’ you shot at him, pushing down the feeling of guilt as soon as the words left your mouth. You seemed to have forgotten the words of his note as quickly as you had read them. Bucky walked up to you, nervously to say the least, reaching into his pocket. You raised your eyebrows in confusion awaiting his response, as he took a deep breath.

The look of confusion soon morphed into shock as the super soldier gracefully got down to one knee, pulling out what you recognised with awe to be a ring. ‘I’m so sorry I hurt you doll. Took me a few days to get my shit together, realise Steve would kick me for leaving if he was still here, find the right one (he nodded towards the ring held so carefully in his hands), and I couldn’t let you down again...won’t let you down ever again. I love you more than I could ever put into words and would love nothing more then to be with you...till the end of the line’ You struggled to hold in tears as you hands flew to your mouth, the first real smile of many days growing to cover your face. Your shaky breaths only quickened as Bucky smiled at you like a happy puppy, at last sure of where he wanted to be, and who he wanted to be with.

‘Y/n S/n, will you make me the happiest super soldier alive and...’ Bucky tried to say as he held the ring out to you from beneath you, but a high pitched ‘Yes’ escaped from your mouth muffled by your trembling hands as you nodded, cheeks now glistening with tears. ‘You didn’t let me finish, will you...’

‘Yes’ you stopped him again as his sweet eyes crinkled at the sides from both laughter and frustration, as e stood up and you quickly brushed your lip against his impatiently.

‘Marry me, doll’ he finished, as he slid the ring perfectly onto your finger, diamond sparkling in the sunlight as you heard a small squeal from the direction of the elevator followed by the sound of a man elbowing a teenage boy playfully in the ribs. Before he could get another word out, you pulled Bucky in by the collar of his tight leather jacket with one arm ripped off, kissing him deeply, pouring in all your love and affection. You pulled back, reaching for his hand and pulling him towards the bedroom, away from a few certain someones prying eyes.

‘I thought this relationship wasn’t about sex?’ the handsome motherfucker grinned. ‘Oh so you don’t want to fuck me then, Barnes?’ Oh, now he was in trouble. ‘I never said that...’ he replied smugly, tossing you over his shoulder bringing you both to your room, onto the bed and under the covers.

[pointnumbersixteen]

A Head Cannon Biography and Character Analysis and of the Captain, Part 6: the Havers Question That I Still Don’t Answer Very Well, But I Tried My Best and That’s What Counts

That gets us finally to the analysis of the relationship between the Captain and Havers, as shown in Reddy Weddy.

From the first scene in the episode we get a lot:  Cap is obviously in love with Havers, that’s half the point of the episode. Cap is also so incredibly unsubtle with his attractions that Havers can’t have missed it. There’s probably no one in the Captain’s command who missed it, honestly. But what Havers might be thinking or feeling about this is almost more interesting than what the Captain, who is more or less an emotional open book, is thinking, because it’s impossible to tell for sure what Havers’ intentions are.

You can tell Havers is nervous to tell the Captain that he’s leaving. He probably doesn’t think Cap’s going to take it well, and considering how well Cap’s been shown taking things not going his way (not well at all, that is), he’s probably right to be a little nervous about it.

Notably, military courtesy dictates that Havers should have informed his commander that he wanted to put in for a transfer BEFORE doing so. The fact that he doesn’t do so, and in fact waits so long after the fact- not telling the Captain about it until he can piggy back it onto the distraction of the Fall of France, when Cap’s in a relatively upbeat mood due to the possibility of getting to join the fight- that the transfer request is nearly approved, says that he knew or at least suspected that Cap would object and perhaps try to stop him and didn’t want to give him the opportunity to do so.

I think the whole “get in the fight” thing he gives as an excuse for requesting the transfer is a lie. He looks like he feels guilty saying it, and there’s nothing about the way he presents himself that says he’s the sort that’s longing to go out and kill some Germans. I read him as having a sort of gentle, sweet, good humored and conciliatory personality. Not a single word or action he gives in the episode says he’s the kind of guy who joined out of some sort of thirst for adventure or blood lust or whatever. I think he’s saying the lie that he most thinks the Captain would believe, as the Captain clearly desperately wants to be in the fight himself. He also looks like he feels bad when he leaves at the end of the scene, probably because the Captain looks so obviously sad.

The big question is what exactly is going on underneath their relationship dynamic? The Captain’s feelings for Havers are impossible to miss, but does Havers feel them back? I don’t have a conclusive answer to that question, but two possibilities strike me.

 Both of those possibilities have one thing in common, though: whether Havers had feelings for the Captain or not, he did not want the Captain to admit his own feelings to him. I think in the second scene, in Cap’s office, it was the Captain’s intention to admit his feelings to Havers. And after years of repression and knowing the potential consequences for his actions, the fact that he was at least giving it serious consideration says a lot about just how much the Captain liked Havers.

But... when Havers comes in, he tells the Captain he’s leaving that night (and given how quick that was, it occurs to me that it’s possible Havers didn’t tell the Captain about his transfer request until he’d received the answer on it, possibly at the same time the Fall of France message came, but only told the Captain he’d put in the request in the first scene, and waited until that afternoon to say it was approved, to try to give him a bit of time to get used to the idea and lessen the blow a little- or alternatively, to let him think he still had time to stop Havers when he didn’t). And then when the Captain tries to make the conversation the least bit personal, with the ‘I’ll miss you, Havers,’ Havers’ smile wanes and Cap walks it back, correcting it to a ‘we’ll miss you’ with a safe het-masc sports reference for added camouflage. He tries again to broach the topic as Havers is going out the door, ‘I say, Havers,’ but Havers, who usually has nothing but gentle smiles for the Captain, looks entirely unreceptive, and Cap blinks, gives himself the tinniest little sad headshake, and then walks that back, too, saying that it’s a shame they won’t be able to finish the operation together. Only then, once it’s clear that the Captain isn’t going to say anything that would have been deemed inappropriate for the time does he get that smile. (And Havers did have a really nice smile.) (And also, Ben Willbond and Peter Sandys-Clarke do an excellent job in these two scenes saying things with their little facial expressions that their characters for various reasons aren’t able to.)

It’s also notable Havers starts with ‘I’m afraid I’m leaving you, sir,’ and I don’t think it was an accidentally awkward bit of speech, I think he meant it and that he meant it as a hint to the Captain that he couldn’t continue on like that, with the open infatuation and dependence on him.

 But: were the Captain’s feelings returned by Havers or not?

Option 1: I think unlike most of Cap’s command, Havers actually did like and respect him. Havers seems like a kind man, the sort that would view Cap’s oddities as harmless eccentricities rather than causes for derision, and he was patient and gentle with Cap’s probably much-battered ego, and maybe Cap misinterpreted that rarity as his feelings possibly being returned.

If he didn’t return Cap’s feelings… in this case, I think Havers would actually be leaving to protect the Captain, with the knowledge that the longer he stayed, the more likely it would be that Cap would get to the point where he was too unsubtle to ignore, and liable to be reported by one of their subordinates that clearly weren’t thrilled by the Captain’s command in order to get rid of him, in which case there would be an investigation, and if he let it go long enough that the Captain admitted his feelings to Havers and Havers was asked about it during the investigation, he’d be stuck between the rock and the hard place. Denying it would be lying to a superior officer and given the Captain’s lack of subtlety, place suspicion on Havers possibly returning the Captain’s interests, and telling the truth would end up with the Captain chucked out of the army in disgrace and possibly placed in jail. Leaving the Captain was ultimately for the Captain’s own good.

I think this last part can be backed up with the fact that, after all, if Havers didn’t like or want to protect Cap, he could have let that scenario play out, stick around until it became so obvious that someone else reported the Captain or he’d report the Captain himself, and if it got to the feelings confession state, he could have happily told command that the Captain had propositioned him and then been rid of him, and probably get a much more competent CO in exchange, maybe even a promotion to that position himself.  

 Option 2: for those in favor of thwarted gay romance, rather than unrequited gay crushes, it’s also entirely possible that Havers was gay and did like the Captain back, but considered the battle front a safer option than actually letting Cap confess his feelings and having a relationship with him. Again, the penalty for that if they were caught- and they likely would have been caught, as Cap is the least subtle person in existence about his crushes- would be being chucked out of the military, followed by two years hard labor and/or chemical castration. This in turn would quite probably lead to social death and economic ruin, as ‘spent two years in prison turning big rocks into little rocks as punishment for homosexual acts’ isn’t the sort of thing to put on your CV and expect to be hired in a difficult post-war economy. At least not in the 1940s.

And he couldn’t just let Cap confess his feelings and then tell him he liked him back but that there couldn’t be a relationship between them, because one, that would probably crush Cap, and two, I can’t see Cap letting it go at that. He’s never been shown to easily give up on what he wants- carrying on with Operation-Get-Rid-of-Allison long after the others gave up interest in it, for instance- and if he let his feelings about Havers out of the box, I think he’d have trouble putting them back in- and it’s likely his attempts to convince Havers they could make it work would just make everything more obvious and worse.  

 The second option actually makes me sadder, because it would have put the potential for happiness almost but not quite within Cap’s reach.

 Either way, whether he returned them or not, I think Havers ultimately left in order to protect the Captain (and at least to a certain extent himself) from the societal consequences of his own feelings.

 As for the mysterious ‘William’ envelope: were they actually the plans or were they a love letter? I’ve read some debate whether William was Havers’ first name or William really was the name of their project, but why not both? (It’s even entirely possible that Cap named the project after Havers in yet another incredibly unsubtle gesture of his affection, as a few people have mentioned.) I think that the envelope really was the plans, though. It was a pretty full envelope. I think if Cap had worked up the nerve to write a love letter, it would have been more likely to be a love note, after decades of repressing his feelings, and from the bulk of that envelope, that would have to have been more of a love novella.

I think it was the plans, but Cap was looking at it so hard and pondering it so hard, because Havers’ first name on an envelope gave him the idea that even if Havers was leaving, he didn’t necessarily have to lose him, if he confessed his feelings and Havers responded positively, they could at least maintain a correspondence and then when the war was done there would be other options for them having a real relationship. My guess- just head cannon at the moment- is that was his intention. But again, when he tried to go for it with the ‘I’ll miss you’ and it wasn’t well received, he got cold feet.

When Cap tosses the envelope in with the bomb and buries it looking somewhat regretful, the regret is at not having confessed his feelings, and not being able to have that correspondence accordingly.

 I personally head cannon Havers dies in North Africa and Cap strongly regrets not trying to force him to stay or ever telling him how he feels because of, but that’s mostly just my imagination being cruel. He could have lived through it and just never contacted the Captain again. I like the death bit for two reasons, though. Havers being alive at the end of the war might have given the Captain a little hope for the future, for one (and if you haven’t guessed yet, guys, this isn’t going to end well). A big reason though is because the actor who plays Havers, Peter Sandys-Clarke, is the grandson of Lieutenant Willward Sandys-Clarke, who died fighting on the North African front in WWII. LT Sandys-Clarke was awarded the Victoria Cross for his action, which is the highest decoration for military valor you can be awarded in the UK. I’m just going to quote his citation wholesale, as it’s so impressive:

“During an attack on Guiriat el Atach, in Tunisia, on 23rd April, 1943, Lieutenant Sandys-Clarke's company gained their objective, but were counter-attacked and almost wiped out, he alone surviving of the officers. Although wounded, he gathered together a composite platoon and attacked the position again. The platoon was held up by heavy fire from a machine-gun post, which Lieutenant Sandys-Clarke tackled single-handed and knocked out. After personally dealing in the same way with two more machine-guns posts, he led his platoon to the objective. While they were consolidating there, they came under fire from two sniper posts; without hesitation he again advanced single-handed, and was killed within a few feet of the enemy. His quick grasp of the situation and his brilliant leadership undoubtedly restored the situation, while his outstanding bravery and tenacious devotion to duty were beyond praise.”

I think of it as a bit of homage to the actor’s grandfather, having Havers dying gallantly. It couldn’t have happened in quite the same way, of course, because LT Sandys-Clarke was infantry and Havers was artillery, but I like to think he did something heroic before his exit.

 As a final note from Reddy Weddy: on the subject of burying the bomb, it really is a shame Havers didn’t stick around to help Cap dispose of it, because Havers seemed to have better sense than the Captain and probably would have done something saner than just burying it in the backyard, where anyone could have saw him doing it from a window and dug it up later, or accidentally set it off doing something else later, not knowing it was there. Cap didn’t seem to notify anyone that he had buried a secret bomb prototype in that spot, either, as the military likely would have removed it before returning the house to the Buttons if he had.

The only worse options I can think of for bomb disposal are just chucking it out with the rubbish or locking it in a closet like his sexuality (my poor boy). if he still needed it, he should have either had it locked up in a vault only he knew the combination to, or sent it on to one of those secure military warehouses that existed in droves in those days and if he didn’t need it anymore, he should have burned the plans and then taken it out to an empty field away from the house and done a controlled demolition on it. Or if it was a situation somewhere in between, he could have kept the plans in a vault and destroyed the prototype. But my son, my poor semi-incompetent son, he just buries everything in the back yard.

 Stay tuned for the final part, our downer ending, encompassing both the end of the war and the end of Cap’s life, when I get around to finishing writing it. I’ve passed the 10,000 word mark for the entire analysis, though, so that’s something.  

[stonerfreed]

below is my favorite analysis of stone ocean’s ending and the only thing that helped me understand exactly wtf happened. also this informs how i interpret ireneverse. [source]

“Part 6's Ending may be happier than you think. And how Made in Heaven works (Theory)“

FOREWORD:

Part 6's ending, with the death of the main characters, including Jotaro and Jolyne is a controversial ending to many. Whether you love it or disliked it, there's a consensus that it's overall pretty depressing or at best bittersweet.

Over the past few days I've thought about what exactly did happen at the end of Part 6, as after the battle at Cape Canaveral part 6 resolves fairly quickly and there are a lot more questions than answers. But I've gone over the ending a couple of times and I came up with a theory that may shed light on what exactly did happen, and how its not as sad of an ending as it may be. As I am fascinated by Made in Heaven as an ability and love to examine it. Of course this is my personal theory I backed up with evidence, but I'm not saying its the absolute truth but the way I look at it.

How Made in Heaven Works

Ok so first off we have to explain how Made in Heaven works. It's the stand created from C-Moon when some very specific conditions are met. The strange ritual that lead to the creation of Made in Heaven granted it, it's godly power of Time acceleration. Now we can assume that Pucci's perception of time can be made to fit his stand, its why he's able to keep up with the time speed up when no one else can, which is why it appears he is moving extremely quickly but really everyone else is moving slow to him while he is keeping up with the constant of time. It is important to note that living beings are not affected at all by Made in Heaven, only artificial and inorganic things are affected by the time speed up. All people from the original universe, end up in the next universe reset, they are not reborn in anyway, but merely transferred over. There isn't any evidence to suggest that they had changed in anyway but merely carried over. Of course this all culminates in his ultimate plan and ability, which was to reset the universe.

Enrico Pucci is obsessed with three things, DIO, Heaven, and Destiny. Let's not talk about DIO because it just serves for Pucci's determination, his real motivation is obtaining heaven. As a devout Catholic Priest, Pucci became enamored with the idea of "Heaven". That the end goal of all humans, as dictated in Christianity is to eventually ascend to Heaven with God. Through DIO, Pucci found that he could get to Heaven through the crazy ritual. While not the "Clouds and Angels" Heaven, it was the kind of Heaven that Pucci pictured as being "Heaven on Earth". And to Pucci, that meant Destiny being understood by humanity.

Destiny, is the third and arguably the most important of Pucci's obsessions, he is obsessed with the concept that there is a strand of fate controlling everything. That everything happens for a reason and everyone is where they are for a reason. Pucci believes that every enemy and obstacle he has faced was a trial for him to enter Heaven, and that any mishaps that happen to him is "bad luck", and that truly all things are predetermined. This coincides with his strong belief in God.

If you combine all three, you get Pucci's idea that creating Heaven on Earth is what's best for humanity, however his version of Heaven is that everyone understands their destiny. How does this happen? It does not happen because Pucci has some sort of ability to change history or warp reality in his new universe (The Pucciverse). It happens because knowing your destiny/precogntion is a result of Made in Heaven's time speed up. It is stated by Pucci that:

"Although the body and mind do not understand it, the spirit remembers everything! The spirit, through the speed up of time has remembered every possible event and every possible outcome!".

So, here Pucci revealed another part of Made in Heaven's ability, but it is less than ability but more so a side effect of speeding up time. Aforementioned, time speeding up from Made in Heaven does not affect living beings, but according to Pucci, it affects their spirit. Because due to time speed up, their soul was also speeding up, experiencing a million different scenarios and memorizing every detail of those events, subconsciously and unbeknownst to the person.

Then there is the other side of how Made in Heaven works: What happens if someone is killed by Pucci? According to the law of the universe, those killed by Made in Heaven do not transfer over to the next universe. This is because as mentioned before, the living transfer over harmlessly, while the dead, do not. This is an important part here: Pucci states that Jolyne and Jotaro aren't here because he killed them and even destroyed their souls. However: Pucci is only half right here. He later states something that contradicts his first statement slightly:

"All of my obstacles has been left behind in the previous universe!"

This, is very important to note here. Pucci states that he has killed them, which is true no matter what because he did kill them. What isn't true, is that he "destroyed" their souls.

Pucci's language here is dramatic, but only correct in terms of technicality. When he means "destroyed" he is only technically correct in that their souls do not exist in the first reset universe (referred to here on out as the Pucciverse). The reason their souls do not exist is not because he physically destroyed them, but because they were left behind in the old, original universe. As stated before: the dead do not transfer over. And therefore those that are dead stayed behind while the Pucciverse continued on without them. So in essence he is right, they aren't here in this universe so it is as if they had been destroyed, but they really haven't.

The Battle Between Emporio and Pucci

Then comes the next part of the ending of part 6 which is the battle between Emporio and Pucci. The theatrics of Emporio defeating Pucci aside, what is important here is what Pucci says about Made in Heaven. As Pucci is grounded, dying on the floor to oxygen purification he begs Emporio to let him live a little while longer. Here, Pucci makes a very interesting statement.

"If I die, the fate of mankind will be altered! It will probably be a different future! As long as it's after Cape Caneveral I will gladly give up my life! Or else it will mean that everything I've done up to now will be meaningless! Humanity will no longer be able to see their fate!"

Pucci once again reveals another aspect of Made in Heaven, but rather this time, it's flaw. Here we have to take into account where exactly Pucci stopped speeding up time. Judging by how Emporio woke up and saw "Jolyne's" first meeting with "Jotaro" in the prison, we can assume that time deaccelerated at this point in history, i.e at the "beginning of part 6". This is noteworthy because this means that Pucci had not fully completed a "loop". And by this, I mean the Pucciverse has not yet reached the time/point of original acceleration. It has not passed the moment time first began speeding up, and so technically the Pucciverse is "lagging behind" the original one.

Why is this important? It is because Pucci's work actually had not yet been completed. Pucci was incredibly concerned about staying alive until after Cape Canevral. If he's true to his word, then he may have let Emporio kill him afterwards because his death would have no affect on the universe. Why is this so? It seems because an unsaid flaw of Made in Heaven, is that if time does not pass the point of original acceleration in the new universe then it means that technically the old universe still exists, and that the new universe is only temporary until that point is reached. That Made in Heaven hasn't completely "overwritten" the previous universe because not all events in the previous universe had happened yet. If that was confusing let me try and break it down.

Made in Heaven speeds up time at Cape Canevral -> Results in Pucciverse

Pucciverse stops speeding up at the "Beginning of Part 6"

The original universe "ended" at the end of Cape Canevral = The Pucciverse is lagging behind the original universe.

Original Point of Acceleration = Cane Canevral

Pucciverse Start Point = Jolyne and Jotaro's Meeting at the Beginning of part 6.

Result: the Pucciverse is still lagging behind the original universe in time: Cape Canaveral had not yet happened, and so technically those events are still the events of the original universe, meaning the old universe still "exists" but is being overwritten by the Pucciverse. Because if the time that Cape Canaveral would have happened passes in the Pucciverse, then technically these would be "new events" that had not happened in the original universe. Therefore it would have by that point completely overwritten the previous universe and thus become permanent.

So that means that if Pucci were to die, his work would have been "meaningless" and the universe would have changed. Let's think about this for a second. If the Pucciverse is only possible because Made in Heaven sped up time, then it is not a stretch to say that the reason "why" Pucci is afraid that if he dies his universe will be changed is because he is actually holding it together. It is because of his stand ability that the Pucciverse is occurring in the first place. If he were to die before the old universe had been completely overwritten by the natural flow of time (or manipulation of the flow of time) then there would be nothing holding the Pucciverse together, and no reason for it to exist, and thus would collapse.

This much is understood by everyone, that upon Pucci's death his universe collapses. But where does it go from here? I think there's some evidence to see where exactly.

In Pucci's last moments he was speeding up time to fight Emporio. However, Pucci died before his universe had passed the events of Cape Canevral. From here we can know for sure two things.

His "Pucciverse" did not become permanent and collapsed.

A new universe was not created.

The second point may have some people scratching their heads, "But wait, what about the universe Irene is in? isn't that a new universe?". The answer is yes... and no.

The "Ireneverse"

How do we know a new universe was not created? Simple, because Pucci died before his new universe became permanent. That is, by passing the point of original time acceleration i.e Cape Canaveral. Understandably, in a room with nothing moving in it (I'm referring to Emporio's ghost room where the final battle took place) it’s difficult to see how fast time is moving as a result of Pucci speeding up time in said battle. But, we can know for sure that another singularity effect/universe reset did not take place. We know this because Pucci died before time even passed the point of acceleration. For a new universe to be created, it would have to reach the 'End of Time' and thus for sure have passed the original point of acceleration. So from here, it is evidence that Pucci didn't just reset the universe "again".

But hold on, right after Pucci's death we can see the effects of Emporio being pulled into a new universe again, just like what happened when the universe was reset the first time. We can know for sure that this isn't Pucci resetting the universe because he's dead. If he's dead then there is nothing to speed up time to create a new universe, and also because if it was him speeding up the universe, then it would not have collapsed for it would have passed the point of original acceleration.

So if it's not Pucci speeding up time to create a new universe, and the Pucciverse collapses because it had both not reached the point of original acceleration and Pucci's death, then where exactly does Emporio go?

He goes back to the original universe.

This is because the original universe had not been completely overwritten yet because the Pucciverse did not pass the point of original acceleration, so being that it had not been completely overwritten then technically it still exists in some form, and if the Pucciverse is collapsing, the universe only has one option and that is to go back to the status quo since it is the only intact universe available.

But there is more evidence for this. Emporio wakes up on a road on Green Dolphin Street. He sees a bus, but whats important to note here is that he doesn't know the bus is coming, he's surprised by the bus. This is significant because it shows he doesn't know the bus is coming, meaning that his spirit has not memorized these events because this is the original universe, the side effect of Pucci speeding up time has been erased.

There are two reasons for why Emporio no longer has precognition,

Pucci's death canceled any effects Made in Heaven had created, including its effects on the spirits of people to memorize events.

Pucci no longer exists, or is entirely different in this universe.

The second one needs some explaining. Because it is explained earlier that it is a cosmic law that those who are dead, do not transfer over to the next universe then there isn't any reason to believe that Pucci isn't under the same rule. Pucci died in his Pucciverse, and because of this he was left behind there while the universe moved once again. Now because the Pucciverse was entirely a result of Made in Heaven and since it is gone, then it’s likely that the Pucciverse too will be wiped from existence. Which means, that Pucci's death and his soul was left behind in an non-existent universe. Meaning that Pucci did not come to the new universe, and does not exist in any shape or form or was replaced by an entirely different counterpart.

"Counterparts"

The counterpart thing is important to explain, so let's dial back a bit and look at the meeting between "Jotaro" and "Jolyne" in the Pucciverse. It's clear there is a contrast here between the "people" who replaced Jotaro and Jolyne and their counterparts in the Ireneverse. When Jotaro and others were left behind in the old universe because they were killed by Made in Heaven, they were replaced by shallow imitations of them. We can know for sure that this isn't Jolyne and Jotaro because they look nothing like them, and that they are completely unaware of the universe reset. But, if you look at the guards and prisoners in a brief scene after Emporio arrives in the Pucciverse, they too are aware of the universe reset and just as shocked as Emporio. Which means they are from the original universe and simply transferred over.

But: the fake Jolyne and Jotaro are not aware of these events, exactly "who" they are is something there isn't a lot of evidence for. We do not know if they are real people, or if they are new souls/people created by the Pucciverse to fill the void that Jotaro and Jolyne left behind with their absence. The one thing we know for sure is that they definitely do not have the souls of Jotaro and Jolyne, as other than wearing similar clothes their souls were left behind in the old universe. And that while they have "similar" personalities, they are much shallower versions of the originals, you can discern this because they are acting as if they're supposed to be acting like Jolyne and Jotaro and you don't really get the feeling their actions and emotions are genuine. If they were complete copies of them, then Pucci would have been more concerned about a second coming of Jotaro and Jolyne to stop him.

So if Pucci's soul was also trapped in the Pucciverse, then he either does not exist in the next universe, or was replaced by someone very different.

Now let's bring it back to the counterparts of the Ireneverse and why the Ireneverse is the original universe. Without going back to explain again why the Ireneverse is actually the original universe based on just the flow of universes, there is more evidence for this.

Emporio sees counterparts of Hermes, Jolyne, Annasui and Weather Report in the new universe. However, let's compare his reaction to these counterparts to seeing the counterparts in the Pucciverse. In the Pucciverse, Emporio is at first surprised that Jolyne and Jotaro are here, but later calms down when he realizes that they are somewhat similar but they really aren't them. Yet when he sees the counterparts in the Ireneverse, he is overcome with emotion and breaks down into tears.

This difference and contrast is significant. Emporio's sudden crying reveals his bittersweet emotions on the situation, they are both tears of joy AND sadness. He is crying because his friends are not dead after all, but they just have no memories of him or the events that lead them to friendship. But, if these counterparts were like the counterparts in the Pucciverse, Emporio would not have cared too much and probably would not have gone with them because he knew that those weren't Jolyne and Jotaro. Yet here, he recognizes his friends, but of course he is still saddened that their memories are gone.

His reaction is also evidence that they aren't really "counterparts" in the way that the Pucciverse counterparts are counterparts. More so, there's evidence that they are actually the real deal. How so?

To examine that we have to look at everything mentioned beforehand and how it all culminates together.

We have evidence that this is the original universe because a new universe was not created by Pucci for time did not speed up to the point that it would have created a new universe.

This is not the Pucciverse because Pucci died and nobody knows their fates.

With the old universe still not completely overwritten by Made in Heaven, and the Pucciverse collapsing due to Made in Heaven's effects being erased, the universe had nowhere else to go and returned to it's original self.

The counterparts in the Pucciverse are new people and do not have the souls of Jolyne and Jotaro. They may wear similar clothing, but they look like nothing them and act shallower. We can assume they are like this because they do not have the souls of Jolyne and Jotaro because their souls were left behind in the previous universe.

So why is it then that these "counterparts" are so similar? Not just in appearance, but in personality as well?

It is because, as I mentioned they aren't counterparts but they are the real versions of the deceased. Jolyne IS Irene, Annakiss IS Annasui and so on and so forth. It's hard to deny that Irene is incredibly similar to Jolyne, the same personality, the famous Joestar birthmark and face albeit with longer hair and a more conservative outfit (Though it's revealed she wears the same default Jolyne outfit underneath her sweater). They are this way because they exist in the original universe, and thus the universe where their souls are. So essentially, these new "counterparts" are more like "reincarnations" and they actually contain the souls of the deceased.

But if they are reincarnations, why are they back and how?

Changed Lives

To answer that, we have to look at where the Ireneverse began and the results of Pucci not existing or being very different. So, when the Pucciverse resets back to the original universe, it’s not a stretch to say that it dropped off Emporio at the same time frame: what would have been the beginning of Part 6. This is technically before the events at Cape Canaveral and thus before their deaths. Which is evidence that technically because those events had not happened yet, they would come back to life as they had not died yet. But: this is only a half answer. It does not explain why their lives are so different.

Made in Heaven does not have the ability to change history, this is fact. However: it does have the ability to remove people from "existence" from a new universe upon death, merely as a consequence of the cosmic law of "The dead cannot cross over". Therefore Made in Heaven can indirectly change history by killing a person, so that their shallow counterpart will have a "different" history in the next universe. Pucci died before the events of Cape Canevral, at somewhere near the beginning of part 6.

So we can assume that Pucci was also affected by this law, and that in the Ireneverse Pucci may have been very different or did not exist. Because in the Ireneverse there is either no Pucci or Pucci was very different, he may have or may not have ever met DIO and if he did, his plans went very differently. From here, we can guess that whatever happened to Pucci post-death his actions did not turn out the same way. So for the context, let's assume that Pucci did not do any of his plans, so that results in: very different lives, we know a few things.

None of them are prisoners.

Jolyne is less "wild" and has a better relationship with her father.

Annasui is in a healthy relationship with Jolyne.

Hermes's sister is alive.

Weather Report is alive.

Therefore we can see the explanations for these are:

Without Pucci, no one was able to truly carry out DIO's legacy. If Jotaro's continuous absence from his family can be assumed to be Jotaro fighting either independent nefarious stand users, and or stand mercenaries/DIO followers hired by Pucci, then we can assume that since Jotaro had to fight less, he had to leave his family less. Which means:

He would have been able to be there for Jolyne, and give her the love she needed. Without the need for her father's attention, Jolyne had less outcries for attention such as criminal acts and such. With a more happy upbringing Jolyne never landed in prison, or got a shitty boyfriend like Romeo.

Because Jolyne never went to Prison, it's possible that she may have met Annasui before he murdered his girlfriend and started a healthy relationship. Meaning that Annasui also never had to go to prison.

Hermes's different life is a stretch, but essentially she went to prison to avenge her sister who was killed by Sports Maxx. However, Sports Maxx AFAIK only entered Pucci's service in Prison and came there independently of him. But: it is not too far of a stretch that Pucci set up events that lead Sports Maxx coming to prison. After all, Pucci stated that Spots Maxx was the only person capable of using DIO's Bone to create the requirements of the Green Baby. So it’s possible here that Pucci set up Sports Maxx to kill Hermes's sister to go to prison. If this is the case, then without Pucci's involvement then Sports Maxx would never had ran into Hermes's sister, and thus she would still be alive and Hermes would have no reason to go to prison.

Weather Report never had his memories taken away because he either never found out that he was dating his sister, or eventually he found out and was able to break it off on his own terms without the chaos that Pucci brought by bringing in the KKK. Either way, his relationship with his sister never lead to him coming to prison. (Sidenote: Weather Report was actually killed by Whitesnake instead of Made in Heaven, but because Whitesnake became C-Moon which became Made in Heaven we can assume it all counts all the same).

So both the time for their deaths had not occurred yet, and also because the main cause of their deaths (Pucci) did not act the same way, history changed for them as their lives were lived very differently and thus did not lead to their deaths.

Conclusion

In summary, at the end of part 6, Emporio returns to the original universe because the Pucciverse collapsed. The Pucciverse did not create a new universe because Pucci did not speed up time to create a new one. The Ireneverse that Emporio lands in is actually the original universe with a minor alteration of what if Pucci was very different, or did not exist. Because of this, he did not influence the events that resulted in Part 6 and lead to the main crew's deaths, he also ended up giving the the main characters a much better life because of his lack of influence. The Ireneverse counterparts are actually reincarnations, they have the souls of the deceased as the Ireneverse is the original universe and time had been rewinded to the beginning of part 6, and without Pucci's existence, they technically are not "fated" to die in the way they died in part 6.

So yes, Emporio is with the originals in the end, but they lived different lives. But their souls weren't destroyed, and in the end they lived happier lives. Although it is still bittersweet, because main characters that Emporio knew are gone because their memories are gone.

Sidenotes:

What happened to everyone else?

Made in Heaven has no ability to effect history or change people. It can only do this indirectly if it kills someone in the previous universe and their counterparts in the new universe change history. But it is stated that everyone crosses over unchanged. It is emphasized that even as something as insignificant as an ant makes it over to the new universe unchanged at all and merely "carried" over. So the events of Part 1-5, and all of it's characters still happened and those who lived, lived, and experienced the universe reset and time speed ups the same as Emporio did. Which is noteworthy because Emporio made it over to the new universe unchanged and with memories of previous events so regardless of the Ireneverse, it can be assumed that everyone else was pretty much the same.

The only curious thing is if Jotaro was "reincarnated" as well, we can assume that his life was entirely the same up to Part 6 but without the interference of Pucci so he was able to be closer with his family. Jotaro may or may not have a new name because the new Hermes never stated if her name was any different. Either way, the only thing that probably changed about him was his name. And his caring for Jolyne. However, in the case that my theory is true then Jotaro and Jolyne probably did not experience a divorce yet their wife/mother did, so its a toss up of what exactly might've happened.

The bittersweetness of their deaths:

The bittersweetness comes into effect when remembering the death of F.F. Jolyne begs her to wait as Jolyne will get her memory/stand disc back from Pucci but F.F says that while it will be "F'F. it won't be the F.F they know because it doesn't have the memories or experiences that the original F.F did. This is actually clever foreshadowing by Araki, as the same thing happens to the main crew at the end of Part 6. Emporio is saddened because while it is definitely the main characters, their lack of experiences and memories means that the friends he knew, shaped by bonding and experiences together, are essentially "dead". If you managed to read all the way down here, then thanks for taking the time to read a fan's madness lol.

Edit: Feb 2017: Araki recently commented on the ending of Stone Ocean, and he used "Irene" and "Jolyne" interchangeably. Which pretty much confirms that Jolyne did indeed become Irene and she's not another person entirely.

Follow-up comment [source]

Imagine the events of Part 6 being the plot of a VHS movie that you're watching for the first time. You love the characters and story and almost feel like you're a part of it! The scary parts are truly scary, because you don't know what's around the corner. But because of that, aren't all the happy times a bit melancholy? After all, you can't know what's going to happen next in the movie. At least, that's what Pucci thinks.

Pucci thinks it'd be nicer if we'd already seen the movie, so that we know what's going to happen. That way, we won't be scared when things turn bad, and we can be safely happy knowing what's coming. So what he'd like to do is rewind the VHS tape once the movie's over (because that's what you do with VHS), and watch it all over, knowing what will happen in advance. This is when he would activate Made in Heaven. He wants to tape over the parts of the movie that would prevent him from being able to do this (in this case, Jolyne and company). But in order to do so, he has to play through the full movie in normal time to properly edit them out, until he reaches the end.

So, at the end of the film, Pucci edits out the limiting factors (killing Jolyne etc) and fast forwards through the ending reel and credits all the way to the end of the tape (being the end of the universe). He makes his own cut of the film without those pesky elements, but with everything else intact, and adds himself in. Then he rewinds the tape, and fast forwards through all the ads and commercials before the movie begins (creation of the universe all the way through parts 1-5). Now he's reached the beginning of the movie (where Jolyne meets Jotaro). His new cut of the film has started rolling, and needs to roll through to the ending at normal speed. But somebody's lit Pucci's new cut on fire, and burned it to a crisp (Emporio killing Pucci). With nothing to edit over with, the movie goes back to playing the way it did before. Unfortunately, Pucci already cut out himself, and the Jolyne and Jotaro characters from the tape reel, so there's a big blank where they should be. The movie still has to continue on, so we fill in the blanks based on what we know of the characters from the first five movies, creating the characters of Irene and Annakiss etc.

[florrickandassociates]

TGF Thoughts: 5x09-- And the end was violent...

It’s been a busy week, but I didn’t want to wait until after 5x10 aired to write this. This recap may be a bit rushed (read: I am going to make an effort to just skip over scenes I don’t care about; we’ll see how many of those there actually are). I didn’t love this episode overall, but I thought it was a huge improvement over 5x08’s parking ticket fiasco and wish it had immediately followed 5x07.

Bless these episodes for not being overly long

Oooh, the opening sequence is long and I have nothing to say about it! Thanks for making my life easier, writers!  

The point of this opening is to show that there are lots of problems with the official court system—inefficiencies, inconveniences like broken elevators, overcrowding in prisons (though, uh, I don’t think the actual problem there is that there’s not room to incarcerate more people)-- that might make cops open to an alternative like Wackner’s court.

I know the cop thread kind of started with last week’s parking nonsense, but surely there was a way other than the parking nonsense to bridge the gap between 5x07’s prison system and 5x09’s focus on Wackner’s court suddenly being a replacement for criminal court, too.

(Y’all, I have SO MANY questions about how Wackner can POSSIBLY judge criminal cases, but they’re all just variations on... UH, GUYS, ISN’T THIS ILLEGAL? LIKE SUPER DUPER ILLEGAL?)  

I see that there is a filming notice when the cops bring a dude into Wackner’s court, and that the notice says that by entering on the premises you consent to being on film. I do not think that this sign being displayed would hold up as evidence of anyone consenting to be sentenced to a private prison on criminal charges.

New question: How did Wackner Rules get on the air so fast? And are they just filming endless episodes in real time? They just film anyone who walks in?  

I think there is supposed to be a subplot about Marissa liking fame and attention; it is almost a little too subtle to be meaningful. I see a through line from her sleeping with that editor dude last week to her smiling at the flowers in this scene to her scenes with Carmen later this episode. Unfortunately, I need a lot more for this to work.

I don’t need Marissa to be a hero who constantly does the right thing and calls out Wackner on crossing the line, but I’m really sad that this is what they’re using Marissa for when we were due for Marissa calling Wackner out (in a meaningful, lasting way) like two episodes ago. It’s felt odd to me that she just sticks around and assists Wackner and Del when they’re doing things like putting people in private prisons and comparing the show they’re making to The Apprentice. Any subtle shift in Wackner’s decisions that has signaled to me that he’s gone too far is something that I can say with certainty would signal the same to Marissa. Marissa’s outspoken and passionate, and we have seen enough reaction shots to know she knows things are going bad, fast. Am I really meant to believe that because she likes Wackner and she likes fame, she’s not going to do anything more substantial than look upset from time to time? Not only does that feel out of character, it’s also just boring.  

And, it speaks to another problem I’m starting to have with the arc: they needed to get to the point faster. Once Wackner said “David Cord’s private prison,” this stopped being fun. It would’ve stopped being fun for Marissa and it stopped being fun for viewers (seriously though, the change in tone on Reddit between 5x07 and 5x08/5x09 is VERY noticeable). So why did we follow that up with some repetitive filler bullshit about parking spaces and then start getting back to the point in this episode? I’m sure they’re going somewhere big in 5x10, but you can’t follow an explosive reveal with more status quo.

(Also, lol, I think the parking space thing was meant to be a fun silly absurd little way of entering into themes about authority and Wackner trying to legitimize his court, but it was about an issue so relatable and illogical that I think it feels even harder to believe than the, like, whole concept of a secret court in a Copy Coop.)  

Time for Marissa to look concerned again! She’s confused about if the case is real or not, and when Wackner says it’s real, she says it’s not for their court and it’s crossing a line. She is absolutely correct. Wackner’s like, let me know if you think I’m crossing a line after I rule, and then he makes a silly flailing gesture that Marissa can use as a signal.

I actually don’t hate that scene; it is a good scene. I am only snarking on it because it feels like familiar territory and it belonged in an earlier episode.

Am I correctly understanding that these cops wanted to be filmed bringing a man against his will to a fake court with a private prison? And that they wanted this to air on television? Okay.

I will say that I believe the motivations of everyone involved except Marissa. Wackner thinks he’s doing good for the world. Del is getting good TV (I mean, I still think that Wackner Rules title sequence is shit and the show Del seems to be making is terrible, but that’s besides the point). Cord has so much money he’s untouchable and this is fun for him. The cops just don’t want to deal with bureaucracy when it comes to someone who they basically caught in the act.  

Court! Stuff! Happens!

Wackner sentences the guy to one year in “David Cord’s private prison.” Again, I know they have to say this for exposition/storytelling reasons, but I continue to find it hilarious that David Cord would want his name to be used in this way (because he like, absolutely would not want his name to be used this way).

The cops like Wackner’s verdict so they tell all their friends to also take their cases to Wackner. What could possibly go wrong!  

Like, yeah, there are problems with the criminal justice system—and some of them are even the ones these cops are mad about—but this is ABSOLUTELY not the answer!!! You cannot just take people off the streets and place them in private prisons because they were forced to enter a filming zone for a TV show what the actual fuck

Love David Lee still having candy on his desk. Some things never change.

Allegra, who was welcomed by the partners of RL last week, is interviewing for a job with David Lee. I don’t understand. Doesn’t David Lee have to approve new partners at RL?  

Please don’t mention real estate on Mars, Allegra. You’ve made me think of Jason and how bad season seven was.

Allegra is feeling a bit different from Elsbeth this episode, though she very much still has some Elsbeth energy. She is very strategic and blunt in a way Elsbeth isn’t, and she seems a little more focused and intense.  

“I notice, in a partisan world, the person in the middle controls the agenda,” Allegra says of her alliances with both Liz and Diane. This is interesting. What are Allegra’s goals here? Just to have power? Does she have a vision for RL? Is it just a good paycheck?

(My guess is it’s about power and money for her. I don’t think she is going to be the ally Madeline wants. I don’t think anyone who voluntarily signs up to be a name partner at a firm owned by corporate overlords is a natural ally for Madeline though, tbh.)

(I really hoped this arc would explore that just a tiny bit more. The longer this conflict drags on the more convinced I become that the whole question of if it’s appropriate for Diane to lead a black firm is moot. It’s an interesting and complicated question, but with some distance from the plot, it becomes pretty clear that in this particular situation, RL isn’t a black firm. It’s a subsidiary of a large multinational corporation.)

(The show seems very aware of this and keeps having plot points like Diane using David Lee to keep her job and having Madeline call out all the awful clients they have... but it needs to go somewhere.)

(This also may be why I’m more down on the end of the season—in the middle of the season, nods at the things I’ve been thinking are appreciated references. At the end, they’re more like plotholes or reminders of the questions we should actually be spending time on.)

“Are you shitting me?” David Lee storms into the room as Liz and Diane are working. “David, we are shitting you about so many things, you’re gonna have to be more specific,” Liz responds. God, funny!Liz is maybe my favorite part of season 5?  

Liz calls David out on his power, noting that he also reports to STR Laurie. So it seems like Liz and Diane can make decisions on their own, and STR Laurie can overrule them, but not stop them in advance?  

This little ad about an ice cream chain is like, 15 seconds too long.  

Carmen is back!!!! She’s helping Rivi sign a deal with an ice cream chain so that they’ll turn into a distributor of weed.  

Why do we have to watch a SECOND commercial?  

The farm wants Rivi to stop dealing other drugs if they’re going to enter into this deal.  

Allegra, another character who seemingly has no qualms about representing drug kingpins, quickly impresses Rivi.  

I understand why there is an interpreter for Rivi’s wife. I do not understand why the interpreter interprets conversations BETWEEN Rivi and his wife. And then he’s translating the sign language into Spanish? But also Rivi speaks fluent English in half of these scenes? WHAT is happening?  

Allegra is also different from Elsbeth in that with clients, you’re NEVER going to underestimate her. You might not follow her at first, but she’ll get to the point clearly and concisely and without telling you how much she likes your lipstick.

But like at 13:44 Rivi signs something to his wife, and when she signs back the interpreter tells him what she’s saying. This is so so so clearly for the audience but I wish it had just been captions because it makes NO SENSE that the interpreter is in on this private conversation between two people who both know sign language!?  

Rivi and Isabel now LOVE Allegra. Diane and Liz are like, okay!  

Cop stuff happens.  

Credits!!! If you haven’t already, be sure to check out indiewire’s piece on the making of the credits—it's fascinating.  

Brooke directed 😀  

Marissa the celebrity is signing autographs in Wackner’s court when the cops bring in some young men affiliated with Rivi.  

NO, GOD NO, NOT THIS DEVIL’S ADVOCATE FUCKERY. The problem I have with the Devil’s Advocate, in addition to it being fucking annoying, is that it is also the exact opposite of what Wackner’s court is all about. Wackner is about facts and really hearing people out, and from what we’ve seen, Devil’s Advocate is about... stereotypes and pop sociology so bad it’s essentially just racism?  

“These young men are the victims of a system that arbitrarily declares some drugs illegal, and others, like alcohol, not. They should be released. To hold them is to perpetuate an unfair system,” Devil’s Advocate says. Good lord, a 7th grader could write a more persuasive speech than this bullshit.  

WHY IS DAVID CORD PROSECUTING THIS, WHY IS THE TRIAL ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT DRUGS HARM COMMUNITIES, WHY IS THE DEVIL’S ADVOCATE SOUNDING LIKE A WHITE BOY IN AN INTRO TO SOCIOLOGY CLASS WITH HIS REFERENCES TO THE WIRE, WHY IS ANY OF THIS HAPPENING OMG MAKE IT STOP HOLY FUCKING SHIT THIS IS BAD

Why is Marissa the court clerk being called upon to be defense, WHY IS THE DEVIL’S ADVOCATE JUST SCREAMING “DEFUND THE POLICE” WHAT THE FUCK

I’m sorry, I am going to rant about this more, I truly cannot get over how fucking stupid the Devil’s Advocate is. He just starts screaming “defund the police”??? To what end?! Why does Wackner want this in his court?!  

I revise what I said earlier. Devil’s Advocate isn’t just sounding a white boy in an intro to sociology class. He is sounding like a white boy who showed up to an intro to sociology class absolutely hammered.

Marissa, correctly, argues that the arrestees should be taken to Cook County. Then she hears that they work for Rivi and she knows this is bad.  

Cord calling Marissa out for her firm representing Rivi: Another thing that would NEVER air on Wackner Rules.

David Lee seems surprised Liz and Diane did not get rid of Allegra. I don’t know why he is surprised, I think they made it very clear they don’t see him as an authority figure.

STR Laurie is now demanding (another) 10% in cuts to pay for Allegra. Liz says they’ll pay for her with the money that used to be for Adrian and Diane notes that Allegra has more stature than Adrian. Interesting.  

David Lee then decides to be both sexist and racist for really no reason at all. Pleasant!  

Showing Carmen as competent but not yet as strategic as Allegra is a really nice way to underline that Carmen is still a first year even if she is very very good.

Liz, Diane, and Allegra talk about cost cutting. Allegra is like, no, we need to spend more, which makes sense, both for the reasons she outlines and because when you bring on a powerful name partner, your need for lower level support does not DECREASE, it INCREASES.  

I know this scene is meant to show Allegra thinking outside the box, but I am a bit surprised that (1) Neither Liz nor Diane push back on the 10% cut and (2) When Allegra suggests hiring back all the associates and then some, Diane seems to think Allegra doesn’t understand they’re talking about cuts? Like, obviously she knows the topic of conversation, Diane.  

“We don’t run our own business. We work for a global conglomerate,” Liz notes. Yup. Right point, wrong context lol.

Diane and Liz are just too smart and strategic to have to be told ALL of this by Allegra... especially Diane, who is not only smart but also used to dealing with management.  

And worse... Liz and Diane think they made a mistake with Allegra because of this? I mean, I guess if your goal is to permanently work for a big corporation that will slowly chip away at your budget because they can and to never make any waves because that might disrupt the status quo, sure, Allegra isn’t who you want! But do Diane and Liz REALLY want the status quo?  

I hope they find a way out from under STR Laurie next year, as much as I hate the firm switching, because it’s just such a boring dead-end when Diane and Liz don’t actually have power or control.

OOOH I like Del asking Liz what SHE wants wrt the whole Diane situation. She says she wants to “stop fighting” and for Diane to “stop using her racist clients to keep her job” and for “the firm to be led in the right way by the right people.” So sounds like she wants to work with Diane, then? That last one is as vague as can be, but I think we can infer at this point that Liz is more concerned with stability and a work environment she likes than idealism.

God, Liz and Alicia would’ve gotten along so well as adults lmao.

Del tells Liz that “women at work always want to be thought of as nice. Women always want consensus. But you know what, baby, sometimes you just gotta say, ‘Fuck you, and you and you and you. Alright? This is my business and it’s my decision.’” I see where he’s coming from (even though this sounds like something my nemesis the Devil’s Advocate would say) but I am not sure I agree that’s Liz’s problem here.  

Actually, maybe I do agree with Del. I think Del’s saying to say FU to Diane, but what Liz clearly actually wants to do is say FU to Madeline lol

Liz asks him to change the topic. Where ARE they? Is this a restaurant or an incredibly nice backyard?  

Del changes the topic to how his boss wants him to come back to LA, but he wants to get Liz’s thoughts on their future. Liz asks him to start since men are better at saying what they mean (ha, love her giving him shit for that).  

He basically tells her he wants to stay and she says he should stay. Aww.  

Rivi’s house is... certainly something.  

Isabel is concerned because three of their boys have disappeared. She, naturally, suspects they’re at police blacksites.  

I’m sorry, did Marissa not elevate the Rivi case in Wackner’s court to the partners’ attention!? Rivi blames the dairy company, even though this does not... make that much sense?

This escalates into the murder of cows?? What... the fuck.

Now Marissa finds Carmen and loops her in! But only now that she knows Rivi’s looking for them and Rivi’s about to, like, kill Christian Borle’s character whose name I’ve forgotten.  

Marissa’s position on this is that Wackner will just let the boys go so Rivi shouldn’t know about any of this. Rivi would just kill Wackner. And Carmen is like, Rivi will just kill Christian Borle if we don’t tell. Fair point.  

Carmen, being an actual adult (sorry Marissa, I usually love you), is willing to admit when she’s in over her head, so she walks off to go get Liz for help. Yay!  

Rivi is not impressed with Wackner’s court or Marissa. He and Isabel want either Carmen or Allegra. Liz says Carmen will do it, I think meaning Marissa will do it but Carmen will be client facing.  

I love it when we get to see Liz just be super competent. It’s not a rare occurrence, but it’s just very, very clear in this scene how much better Liz is at handling this situation than Carmen or Marissa would’ve been and I like it when the show makes time to emphasize that even on a show full of hypercompetent people, some people are more skilled than others at handling some situations.

Liz, Diane, and David meet with STRL over Zoom. Allegra somehow pops up on the meeting but also joins as a cat because you know what the cat lawyer on Zoom needed? To be parodied on TGF. Ugh

OH MY GOD I DIDN’T PUT THIS TOGETHER SOONER BUT IT’S A CAT LAWYER YOU GUYS. This will mean NOTHING to any of you because it’s about an inside joke I have with the friend who got me into TGW, but indulge me in a little nostalgia here, ‘kay? So in like 2012, there was a trend on Tumblr where everyone would photoshop cat ears onto their favorite TV characters and my friend and I were like, why would I want to put cat ears on my favorite character, idgi. So then we started photoshopping cat ears on to the most unlikely characters and we landed on David Lee. We referred to David Lee as a cat for a really long time. Like, if we were to talk about David Lee today we would probably still call him Cat! David Lee.  

Allegra starts trying to work her magic on STRL.  Diane literally runs down the stairs to try to stop Allegra. I am not sure why Diane and Liz are so anti-Allegra during this conversation which is only happening so they can have the funds to keep her on board!  

Allegra tries to share a burrito with Diane and Liz and says she stands by her strategy. Liz finally says she’s not sure this will work. Allegra is understanding.

I respect that. Allegra may as well go all out and see if she can make this workable.  

(That said, this is pretty much the opposite of her whole staying neutral thing from earlier!)

No one is in the audience at Wackner’s court when Carmen shows up, yet the musician who I like only very slightly more than Devil’s Advocate is still on call. Just STOP.  

Overall I’ve liked the Wackner arc and I’m excited to see it wrap up tomorrow, but lemme tell you: it had better wrap up tomorrow. I am NOT open to dealing with this for another season.

The musician takes orders from Cord? The cameras are rolling? Rivi is there? WHAT?  

I know that NONE of this makes sense, but some things make exceptionally little sense and I just can’t.

Guys, remember the parking tickets?!  

Oh, excuse me, the ice cream company is actually a yogurt company.

Rivi notes that there are three boys missing. Wackner only has two.  

I am a little surprised Rivi has managed to be successful with that temper. Idk what skill set you need to be a top drug dealer, but he attacks people like three times an episode and that seems like a really good way to not build trust and to also get yourself killed?  

Liz and Del talk about what happened in Wackner’s court. Liz asks how they deal with liability. I guess she isn’t Del’s lawyer, then. Del says they have releases and people want to be on TV. Liz says what I’ve been saying, which is that Rivi doesn’t want to be on TV. Del says there are ways around that and references the show Cops as though that’s enough to make this question go completely away.  

Liz references The Apprentice, for those of us who didn’t catch the reference last week and/or for those of us (me!) who wanted to pretend that Wackner wasn’t somehow a commentary on Trump and star power. Ugh.  

(I don’t necessarily think it’s a bad point, I just am not sure that I think it is the most interesting point about the Wackner plot.)  

“Remember how we all watched and laughed and thought it was funny when they fired people?” Liz says. “We? No, no. Hmm, you... you never watched The Apprentice,” Del responds. She did not. Hahahahahaha I love this exchange. It feels very real.

Liz seems less concerned with Wackner and more concerned with Del’s eagerness to turn Wackner into a larger than life personality with a devoted following, which, yes, thank you, Liz, this is actually a much better and more interesting point!  

“That came out of nowhere,” Del says. “No, it didn’t,” Liz responds, correctly.  

Del talks about how Liz represents Wackner, along with murderers, rapists, drug dealers, and yet she wants to draw the line at reality show producer who makes people famous? He’s got a point, even if I’d argue that choosing a romantic partner is not the same as running a business.  

“Would your firm turn down [the producer of The Apprentice] if he wanted to join the roster?” Del asks. “Good point,” Liz sighs, resigned. She’s not happy he’s right, but she knows he is.  

Sigh. I already said some variation of this, but this season seems to have all the right ideas floating around, it’s just choosing the wrong ones to explore deeply and the wrong moments to mention other ones. Things like Liz worrying that someone she’s considering starting a serious relationship with might have some personality traits she doesn’t love can be done through throwaway lines that quickly come back to being about work/plot (that’s what happens in this scene, basically) and I love that. But the existence of STRL and the influence it has over whether or not RL is a black firm at some point can’t be dealt with through references. Wackner becoming increasingly off the rails can’t be turned down to a simmer after reaching boiling point. RL’s unsavory client’s can’t just come up in moments like this; they have to play into a central conflict.  

Like, what good is it to constantly remind the audience that RL represents a ton of “bad guys” if you’re not going to go anywhere with that other than making Liz and Diane occasionally be like, “hmm, good point.” when called out on their client list? This could be a really, really good piece of a larger puzzle about the culture at RL, and instead it feels like it’s a card they play whenever they need some moral complexity. Just... go somewhere with it, please. Either stop pretending that RL are the good guys or have them seriously deal with their client list.

Anyway, then Liz and Del talk about his possible LA move. It’s kinda inconclusive; they talk about work just being work.

Outside of court, Carmen doesn’t believe that Wackner only has two of Rivi’s boys.  

“I don’t know why you’ve been wasting so much time with this joke court, because it’s not gonna magically turn you into a real lawyer, Marissa,” Carmen lashes out. Oooo. Now this is interesting, can I have an extended version of this scene and also all the other Carmen/Marissa scenes that we should’ve gotten in the episodes Carmen was barely in?  

I understand Carmen’s frustration, especially since I imagine she worked pretty damn hard to get into/get through law school. And, as fun and smart as Marissa can be, she does get bored easily, try to skip over the dull moments, and moves on and still always lands on her feet. I can see how that would rub Carmen the wrong way, especially during a stressful moment.

Carmen isn’t exactly a rule follower, but I’d say she is someone who is very conscious of the rules, and, I think someone who values structure more than she lets on (I especially see this in her decision to stay at RL instead of work independently/with Lester).  

Marissa calls Jay for help!

Allegra talks to David Lee, with Liz and Diane in the background. Allegra makes her argument to  David Lee again and it goes over well. I think the writers think there’s more suspense in this plot than there is; it’s pretty obvious from the start that Allegra is correct and Diane and Liz are only correct if the goal is to avoid all conflict.

What is David Lee’s role at STRL? Is there anything else in that office besides awful HR and RL? He talks like he is more RL than STRL and that doesn’t track with what we saw of STRL last year.

Marissa spots a flyer that leads her and Jay to where the missing boy is: another fake court. This was inevitable—I think one of the very first things I said was that Wackner himself seemed fine and decent, but what happens when someone else decides they, too, want to be a judge because they said so—and I’m glad to see the writers go this direction. I actually think this would’ve been an effective build after 5x07 and would’ve kept turning up the tension, so again, most of my issues with this arc lie in 5x08’s momentum killing bullshit. It’s hard to get back into this plot when they lost me last week.

Shocker: Wackner having a reality show inspired more copy cats who take cues from the show and think Marissa is a celebrity.  

Vinetta, the judge of the second court, puts people in “time-out” (read: imprisons them in her basement) and... yeah, I don’t care how kind she is to them, this is not okay! The solution to the prison system is not for people to turn their basements into prisons!  

I don’t know that the writers are TRYING to comment on this here, but there is definitely something to be said about communities that the legal system repeatedly fails finding alternative measures of justice.  

Vinetta is nice and seems reasonable as a judge, but she also has a basement prison her judgments are influenced by her religious believes so, uh, yeah, not good!!!  

Wackner, however, thinks Vinetta’s court is GREAT! He wants to go see it, because “it’s finally happening.” What’s happening? “Justice,” he says. Uhhhhhhh, no. This is just so dangerous, even if everyone involved so far seems to mean well.  

I’m very curious to see how this little thought experiment wraps up (again: I say wraps up because I cannot deal with the thought of this being more than a one season arc).

One thing I love about the Wackner arc—my 5x08 issues aside—is its slow burn. The writers did a phenomenal job of getting me to take Wackner seriously at first, then slowly started to take all the things that seemed great and reasonable about Wackner’s court to their extremes (while still making his judgment on any individual topic* sound). It’s a very fun and entertaining thought experiment, and I think that’s why this arc has largely succeeded for me, even though it’s so far removed from reality.  

* Exceptions to this include policing, prisons, cancel culture, and, of course, parking spaces.  

[angelthefirst1]

Beth repeats everywhere.

Okay so I'm back and excited about the upcoming episodes and while bummed we didn't see Beth in 1016. I am super excited about where this is heading...

Even the title names are in your face Bethyl at this point, I mean... Home sweet home?

If the spoilers are accurate-it's actually a good thing...

*Ducks for cover (please don't throw things at me) 🥴🤕

So after a long but very needed break (The world falling apart kinda made analyzing TWD seem very unimportant) I have decided to climb out of my cave to weigh in on the current spoilers that have everyone acting like they just sat on a cactus. 🌵

If correct, these spoilers confirm to me that Beth is just about to be reintroduced and also confirm what i have been saying about how the story is told in TWD for years.

Season 9 and 10 especially has been repeating, major Beth season 4 and 5 plot. And, there is a reason it's getting more and more blatant. It's coming to a head...

We've seen Beth's story on repeat using other characters to remind us of the past, and show us the future to a degree too.

It's called predicative programming, showing a shadow of what's coming before it actually does.

So this Leah...even if she is "real" (more on this a little later) IS BETH showing aspects of the past to subconsciously remind us of past Beth, and aspects of what's to come for future Beth.

On the topic of what's real and what's not, there is a very good case to be made, that this is all in Mr Dixon's (And ultimately Rick's) head.

A bit further on I will go through some of the blatant repeats in the story to remind you just how 'in your face' the repeats from season 4/5 have become in season 9,10.

But first I want to talk through what I think is most likely happening with these potential spoilers.

I see a few possibilities out of this, but none of them are actually bad.

Scenario 1. Leah is real and her and Daryl have a relationship in that cabin.

Why isn't this bad?

This maybe a difficult concept for some to grasp as they see all the characters separately, but...the writers make the characters all one, by moving them in and out of repeating rolls.

So as I stated above, Leah is a Beth fill in and the reason we most likely won't actually see a full Leah and Daryl love scene on screen, is because it's shadowing the real love scene to come which will be with the main fulfillment, Beth.

Leah is the shadow reminding us of Alone and Still, but Daryl's memory, desire and hope are all about Beth, not Leah.

I mean come on... A Cabin? A Dog? Them not getting along to start but then hints of romance? They eat together? She leaves and is never mentioned until years later? and a note? In your face Bethyl.

And this leads into scenario number two...

I've often wondered if all these characters actually originate out of the 'real' Rick's mind (yes i know the comics don't end that way, but that doesn't mean the TV show isn't going down that road potentially)

While unconscious in his hospital bed, the character of Rick comes alive in his mind.

Some might not like this concept, but It does make sense of the constant repeats in story. Which can be likened to a dream state and inception.

If we have been in the character Rick's mind all this time, then once Rick's character "left" in the helicopter season 9, it became "Daryl's" mind we entered (He became the last man standing) and that's when the story shifted and became extremely Beth heavy.

We possibly entered into Daryl's subconscious instead of Rick's and instantly started getting HUGE Beth symbolism.

Why would Daryl's mind/subconscious be showing him in an almost identical setting to what we saw him and Beth in season 4, in Still and Alone but with someone else instead?

Because it seems he has suppressed her memory as much as possible to cope (Leah not being mentioned all this time is another clue that this is actually about Beth), but it's building and building to a climax, which should soon end in the truth exploding from his subconscious and finally revealing that Daryl loved and desires Beth.

Rick's story started and ended with "finding his family"-that was his repeating story.

And until he left and handed the reins over to "Daryl's mind" we were never going to access Daryl's subconscious enough for the truth about Beth to be revealed.

As soon as it becomes Daryl's characters mind in control, we immediately start seeing major Beth repeats beginning.

I'm going back over some major repeats from 9/10 to show you how obvious the repeating story has become.

This became long and it's only the really obvious stuff that I'll cover, there is way more that could be included, and it will become extremely obvious by the time we reach the end, that this IS Beth’s story, just remixed.

Further down i will also explain scenario number 3.

Repeats: Starting with season 9

As soon as Rick's helicopter files away over a barn (which is very similar to the barn Daryl weeps over Beth next to)

We see Magna who has been a major Beth fill-in with her blond hair and prison tattoo, and in a relationship with a dark haired archer.

We then meet grown up Judith with her braid and sheriffs hat.

We first see Daryl in season 9, as he comes across Carol and Henry in the woods

And he suddenly has a dog.

The camp site is a repeat of Beth and Daryl's "Suck-ass camp" from Still.

But having Dog there shows Daryl's desire to have Beth there. He desperately wanted to get her that dog in Alone.

Daryl kills a snake in suck-ass camp number 2 (it’s black and hanging around his neck)

Just like in Still...

Carol asks Daryl to take Henry to Hilltop because he wants to learn blacksmithing.

Daryl says he doesn't want to babysit. Repeating the sarcastic line Beth says to Daryl about being her chaperone.

Beth going to get something she wants (get alcohol)

Is Henry going to learn at the Hilltop blacksmith. In both cases Daryl does go with them even tho he initially protests.

Before they leave Henry hurts his ankle in a trap and Daryl provides an ointment to help it heal, a repeat of Beth's ankle in Alone and Daryl bandaging it for her.

Soon after we see Jesus get killed in a dark misty graveyard, Daryl's the one to immediately kill Jesus's murder. This was a combination of the Alone graveyard and Beth/Dawn at Grady.

We then see Henry get drunk on moonshine at Hilltop, and when Gage says they should have some more fun, his idea of fun is showing disrespect to the dead walker they trap in a pit. Henry kills it- just like Beth killing the walker in Still that Daryl was "having fun with".

Because of the moonshine Henry gets stuck in the cell block with Lydia (think Daryl saying "home sweet home") and in Still and Beth says "if we are going to be trapped (prisoners) again, might as well make the best of it".

We find out Lydia was abused like Daryl, and Henry keeps saying Lydia is a good person. Just like Beth and Daryl.

Henry and Lydia are young Beth and Daryl, who bond during this time in the cell block, they get separated due to the prisoner exchange with Alden and Luke.

The introduction of Alpha (An evil twisted Beth) who looks like she is dead. Same with Beta being Daryl with his double knives and who would follow Alpha anywhere. Their roles are reserved in that he is the musical one with a singing career and has released albums (sounds familiar to Emily right?).

Alpha is referred to as Mother by Lydia, and the whisperers refer to themselves as a pack (symbolic of wolf's) which is fulfillment of the song at the end of Still about 'Mother being absent' and a 'party when the Wolf comes home'.

We see the prisoner exchange (Luke and Alden for Lydia) from a nomad group and a fixed community. A repeat of Grady

We then see a Henry, Lydia rescue mission from Connie and Daryl in a building with a elevator shaft that Daryl pushes Beta into (Grady) repeating Beth pushing the officer down the elevator.

As Daryl and Beta fight, Daryl stabs him where Beth stabs Dawn.

Beta keeps yelling at Daryl "Where is she?" Daryl then stabs Beta in the same spot as Beth stabs Dawn. Repeating Daryl's desperate search for Beth from season 5 and how it ends.

Just before Beta gets pushed into the elevator he says "All I want is the girl", referring to Lydia but it shows Daryl's subconscious desire when going to Grady was just wanting the girl too (Beth).

The song at the beginning of 914 when pregnant Michonne is looking for Rick, is about dream catchers and dreaming. Which could be a hint at this being a dream state.

The episode also repeats the theme from the Grove, messed up children (Lizzy) willing and even happy about killing (Mica). The episode focuses on children killing dear just like The Grove and Josalin teaches them they must be strong, not weak just like Carol taught the kids in season 4. The timeline in this episode includes Henry getting his leg patched up at Alexandria with Lydia (another repeat of Beth's ankle injury) which would have happened around the same time as the events in the Grove.

We see Miles and Hilda running from walkers through the woods, him wearing plaid and her a cardigan just like Beth and Daryl in Still/Alone

They just happen to come across somewhere safe (Hilltop) but that eventually leads to her being scalped and Miles gets his face turned into a whisperer mask so he effectively ends up "walking around like a dead man" which is a reminder of what Len says to Daryl in season 4 referring to Daryl being miserable due to losing Beth.

Connie and Kelly fight about Connie not saying goodbye when she leaves with Daryl to rescue Henry. A reminder of  Beth and Daryl's conversation about not saying goodbye at the prison.

When next we see Beta and Daryl realises he survived being pushed into the elevator shaft.

Beta says to Daryl "You just had to give me the girl, no one else had to die, now that deal is done".

Same theme and mentality of Daryl when planning to rescue Beth from Grady.

He wanted everyone to go home and no one to die so he rejected Rick's plan of quietly slitting everyone's throats and hoped for a peaceful trade . But once Beth was lost to him, that deal was done and he instantly opens fire on Dawn.

The whisperers then kill Henry and the other's by quietly sneaking into Kingdom, taking them, and eventually slitting their throats and cutting their heads off.

All because they couldn't get Lydia back. The tactics were reversed. And in both situations the main Dr was not killed (Edwards and Siddiq)

Henry is killed and Lydia is miserable enough to almost commit suicide while the group is traveling through a snow storm from Kingdom to Alexandria. This is a repeat and reverse of the group traveling from Alexander in a heat wave and drought while Daryl was miserable.

Season 10

We see Siddiq keep having flashbacks about those that were killed at the fair.

Negan in prison at Alexandria is a repeat of Beth as a prisoner in Grady.

In 10.02 (1010) we get Alpha and Beta's back story from 7 years earlier. They are both in a addiction treatment Facility with hallways reminiscent of Grady, Beta has written on the walls 'Why am I STILL ALONE'. hint much?

Alpha tells Beta that she doesn't die easily. A repeat of Beth telling Daryl that even tho he looks at her like just another dead girl, she isn't.

Alpha starts singing/humming when she hears Beta humming and he tells her to stop singing and never do it again. Repeating Daryl yelling at/mocking Beth about her singing in Still, and a reverse of Alone when he tells her to keep on singing.

Beta asks for Alpha's name and she responds with "The dead don't have names". Reinforcing the theme from Still of Beth telling Daryl that she knows he sees her as just another dead girl, and that's why he's afraid to get too close to her.

We see the introduction of the whisperer sisters (twisted versions of Maggie and Beth from season 4/5) one of which-a blond, has just lost a baby (Beth and Judith) and she eventually dies.

Beta and Alpha talk about what the dead feel, Alpha says "nothing" repeating Beth yelling at Daryl "Do you feel anything?"

Later we find out Beta's brother was being treated in that facility for addiction, repeating Daryl telling Beth about Merle and how he was always high. Alpha is the one to kill Beta's brother, repeating Beth telling Daryl "You got away from it" meaning Merle and his influence, and Beth's insistence on him staying who he is, kept him from becoming his brother.

The very next scene is current time and shows Beta telling Alpha (Just after the satellite hits) that he saw smoke at the boarder. Insinuating the fire from the satellite also represents the fire from the cabin in Still which was also right after Beth and Daryl's talk about Merle and how he got away from him.

Alpha and Beta then interlock fingers just like Beth and Daryl in Alone.

The Whisperer sisters also have a conversation about how Alpha killed Lydia (which she lied about) and Alpha told them that she didn't shed one tear when Lydia died. One of the whisperer sisters says "She is Alpha, she doesn't cry."  repeating Beth's "I don't cry anymore Daryl".

Beta finds out Alpha lied about Lydia being dead and yells at her "she is never coming back, she is GONE! Alpha." Repeating Daryl and Rick's conversation about Beth being just gone.

The beginning of 1003 shows Alexandria get wave after wave of walkers because of the fire from the Satellite (Sill cabin) which is a repeat of the walkers being drawn to the cabin while Beth and Daryl are still watching it burn. 413 opens with Maggie, Sasha and Bob fighting waves of walkers in the fog, and the Grove episode which happened on the same timeline showed burned walkers coming to the cabin Carol, Ty and the girls were in.

It's repeating that era.

The fighters at Alexandria are exhausted and Gabriel tells Aaron he has to use Negan to fight because they are low on fighters, he says pointing to Negan then Aaron "Peanut butter meet jelly" repeating the peanut butter Beth eats in Alone and Jelly Daryl eats.

Carol, Daryl and Michonne stay the night at Barnett academy home of the foxhound. Repeating the dog theme from Alone.

The description of the episode says "The group stays at the academy but Carol falls into a trap." Once again Repeating the Alone/foot trap/dog/Grady/trap theme.

Carol calls for Daryl to help her once she steps in the trap.

This trap causes Carol to fall and hurt her arm badly repeating Beth's arm injury from season 5 when she wakes up with her arm in a cast.

Rosita and Eugene have an argument about how he loves her, and he says that he wished she would would re-zone him into love town, and hoped she'd changed her mind. (Changed your mind? Love? Yeah not spelling this one out for you)

This same episode Carol "wakes up" smiling but actually dreaming of domestic bliss with Daryl preparing her food, they have run out of jam/jelly. Probably because Daryl ate it all lol (once again Alone on repeat)

1006 Carol and Daryl go looking for Negan (the missing prisoner) a repeat of consumed 506 with Daryl and Carol searching for Beth.

At the same time we see a focus on the doctors/medical ward of Alexandria due to the contaminated water making everyone sick. A reminder of Grady.

We also have Eugene on the radio broadcasting to try and reach a new community, which eventually leads to him and the others in 1016 ending up at the end of the train tracks with train cars and the meeting of a new group.

Which is repeating terminus, who were broadcasting on the radio too.

He is on a mission to meet the new potential love of his life (Stephanie) at the same time Daryl and Carol are out on their search for the missing prisoner.

We see the whisperer doctor (Dante) plant himself into Alexandria and he eventually kills the second doctor (Siddiq) repeating but twisting the Grady story of Dr Edwards using Beth to kill the new doctor that comes into Grady.

Before he kills Siddiq however, Dante uses poison and kill another whisperer who gets put in the jail cell at Alexandria, he then blames the mistaken medication that killed the whisperer on Siddiq. Repeating Dr Edwards poisoning the new Dr that came into Grady while blaming Beth.

Lydia runs away from Alexandria during the time Dante kills Siddiq.

While Lydia (the girl) is missing and no one knows where she is, father Gabriel oversees Siddiqs funeral. Repeating Ty's funeral from season 5 while no one knew what became of Beth. The funeral scene emphasizes the sprinkling of dirt into the grave just like we saw with Ty.

Next we see a father Gabriel watching a video log of Dante when he first arrived at Alexandria

repeating the groups from seasons 4/5 arriving at Alexandria and doing video logs with Diana.

Aaron and Gracie are seen taking about vehicle registration plates and the different states, repeating Aaron and Eric's obsession with collecting them all in season 4/5

While searching for Alpha, Carol almost steps in an animal trap and Daryl saves her. Another repeat of Beth's animal trap.

Soon after the animal trap, Carol then runs after Alpha leading the group into a trap in the cave, repeating her running into the trap at Grady and being hit by the car and the leading of the group to Grady.

While in the cave we see a bird cage, like we see in Beth's cell back at the prison, the bird cage representing her at Grady.

Carol is rash wanting revenge and stupidly drops the explosive causing the group to think Connie and Magna are dead. Beth at Grady rashly stabs Dawn, causing the group to think she is dead.

We next see a depiction of resurrection when Beta comes out the grave while sneaking into Alexandria.

Daryl and Alpha fight, Alpha after fighting with Daryl wakes up from passing out, she is reborn stronger.

Eugene takes to Rosita about the probability of never seeing Father Gabriel and the others from Alexandria again because Alpha's horde is coming to Hilltop. Rosita tells Eugene to stop, repeating Beth and Daryl's argument in Still about never seeing Maggie again and Beth yelling at him to stop.

Eugene and Rosita then share some alcohol (moonshine) depicting Beth and Daryl doing the same.

Rosita tells Eugene he has no romantic game which we all know applies to Daryl too.

Before the fight/fire at Hilltop, Daryl tells Judith that he is afraid a little bit. With Beth he wouldn't admit he was afraid of losing people, he cared about.

We then see Hilltop get drenched in a clear flammable liquid (tree sap) and set on fire (The Hilltop fire represents the cabin Daryl and Beth Burn)

The episode with Virgil and Michonne is fascinating and aspects in it, could well be repeated with Daryl and Leah. This episode could be a foreshadow of: Scenario number 3. It's in part a hallucination.

In the Virgil/Michonne episode we see Michonne get drugged and she sees what the past would have been like if she'd chosen a different road. She describes what she saw in her hallucinations to Virgil, as losing her family and that it was Hell to see.

Virgil has taken the drugged tea before and he describes it as heaven because it reunited him with his family and he hoped it would do that for her. After coming out of the hallucination, Michonne spares Virgil's life and that act, ends up leading her to Rick's boots

And the phone with the picture of her and Judith on it.

The end of the episode ends in Michonne going to "Find him."

So the theme at play is: a Hallucination, then having mercy could lead to clue of a lost loved one finding the other. Interesting...

The note Daryl apparently leaves Leah says "Find me".

If Daryl is in some kind of drugged state during this episode, it could combine his immediate situation (Leah actually being there) and his memory and desire of Beth in a similar setting (Alone). If this scenario plays out Leah could take something of Daryl's and the follow on effect may well lead Beth to a clue about Daryl, leading to her finding him.

Just putting this idea out there as the hallucination theme is reinforced in season 10 with Siddiq and in the very next episode when Carol hallucinates Alpha, just after Alpha has been killed. Princess also mentions not being sure if she is hallucinating or not when she meets Eugene, Ezekiel and Yumiko, and wonders if they are real. And Beta hallucinates the walkers all looking to him and saying "this is the end of the world".

So the Leah events maybe half true, half hallucination and this might be what leads to a clue and eventual reunion just as we assume Michonne's clues will eventually lead to a reunion with Rick.

After this episode the repeats in Bethyl themes get even more obvious.  

Beta takes Alpha's head and goes off on his own to listen to music (Emily's song, a love song with lyrics about going to Hell to find your missing girl) Beta makes a mask of half her face. She's with him even when she's gone.

The last words Beta says to Alpha are "Thank you, I see now, thank you". Repeating the thank you note and how she taught Daryl to believe there are still good people.

Eugene's group going into the city and then on to meet the new group at the train yard, is a mix of the group traveling to Atlanta to get Beth and also traveling to Terminus. Both times at the train tracks with train cars and the group ends up surrounded and with weapons pointed at them.

The hospital location in 1015 and 16 or "Tower" as they call it, and what happens especially with Judith and Daryl, is in my opinion the biggest clue we are close to her return.

The hospital is in your face Grady and it's meant to remind you of that time.

In the hospital we see Lydia patting cats

A reminder of the claimers and Joe the claimer leader asking Daryl if he was a cat person, just after losing Beth at the funeral home, but before Grady.

Lydia has just lost Henry, repeating that time. Also if you recall in season 4 just before the Daryl meets the Claimers, Michonne and Rick were separated he was injured and she eventually finds a clue to him and Carl. Michonne is currently looking for Rick again due to the clues she finds with Virgil.

Luke is working on fixing up a speaker system to play music. Music/Beth inside the hospital.

Outside the hospital, in the woods Judith finds Daryl and tells him she doesn't like it inside it smells like cat pee (another reminder of the claimers era) she then tells Daryl she wants to learn what he does.

Just like Beth learning to track, we even get Judith tracking and identifying what she tracks as a walker while Daryl looks on proudly.

The group's whole plan for 1016 is to safely get "The music" speaker system out of the tower/hospital, to lead the huge horde of walkers surrounds them away.

Exactly what we didn't get to see in the aftermath of Grady. Getting Beth (music) out of the hospital.

Carol putting the knife up her sleeve is repeating Beth putting the scissors in her cast.

Carol ends up getting her revenge without getting killed (Unlike Beth with Dawn) but ultimately it's Negan and Daryl that do the revenge killing for Carol and Beth. Carol says to Negan regarding killing Alpha" What took you so long", where as Daryl's reaction was instantaneous, in a split second and he had put a bullet in Dawn's head.

We also see Negan go down the elevator shaft with a rope, just like Beth did.

The music they play to get the walkers away from the hospital is "Burning down the house", another repeat of the Still cabin.

When Negan comes across Beta, Beta runs at him immediately to kill him. Pushing him down he pulls out his knife and is about to kill Negan as he say "For Alpha". Beta Repeating Daryl's instant revenge on Dawn.

The title of 1016 is A Certain Doom, which is actually what Coda should have been called, considering this episode actually went to plan (mostly) for our group. Hardly anyone dies, only Beatrice from Oceanside and they get rid of Beta and Alpha's horde.

Beta dies as Daryl kills him before he can kill Negan. As Beta dies we see Alpha flashbacks of her telling him, he is not broken, that they love nothing, fear nothing, feel nothing and it makes them free. This is the exact opposite of what Beth taught Daryl. She called him out on being afraid of feeling and loving/caring about others.

Season 9 and 10 culminates with Lydia (Daryl) saving Carol (Beth) from certain death, by not letting her go over the cliff with all the walkers.

And standing on the edge of the cliff watching the horde fall down-along with Alpha's mask, Lydia and Carol interlink hands, just like Daryl and Beth in front of the grave. The Grave Beth and Daryl stand in front of says Father, while Lydia and Carol are looking at the end of Mother (Alpha)

Hopefully soon we get to see the original version of all this, and not just a repeated shadow of Daryl unknowingly doing something that helped Beth survive in the aftermath of Grady.

The upcoming episodes have me itching to see, I'm already seeing more repeats from Alone, Coda and 510 to name a few.

Beth is absolutely spilling out of the story right now through all these parallels, I haven't even covered them all here but just the main standouts of season 9 and 10.

So no matter what happens with this Leah character, Beth is still coming back and it's going to be massive

[ziracona]

hoh I'm really sorry friend but you got Talbot's backstory kinda muddled. Some things you stated that he did, he didn't actually do for the reasons you stated. He didn't experiment on killers just for fun -- he ran from them. they hunted him. he experimented on them to find a dosage right for himself. he also didn't experiment on an animal for fun. it was dead. Vigo apparently talked about escaping and it had to do with serum. Its why he injected himself after tests. He wanted a way out.

I’m going to answer this in two parts since it’s stated in two. First, friend, I am going to have to operate on the assumption that you have very very strong feelings about Talbot and assume everything said against him is pretty much the same after a glance or something like it, because I never once said he experiments on the killers for fun. I said the Entity I think lets Talbot experiment on other killers now that he is one too as “punishment for them and fun research times for Talbot,” not that Talbot experiments on them for fun. I think he does enjoy doing his scientific research, but that aside, the above is just a description of the Entity’s reasoning in letting him do that/its POV.  I certainly never said he does it ‘just for fun’. In fact, I explicitly stated his motivation for becoming a killer was to attempt to protect himself. I have to assume you didn’t really read my post at all, or perhaps got it confused with another. I know my shit. I read up. Though it is true I say ‘animals’ when, while he canonically experiments on both rats and crows, only the one rat happened for sure before he moved on to the Trapper. Although, that’s kind of worse... Again though, I never once said he did any of this for fun. I know he injected people to see what the serum would do, in a very reckless and poorly thought attempt to escape the realm. I explicitly mention this. Perhaps you are confused because I describe him as torturing people, and he’s not just doing pain for fun--this is because torture is not limited to only pain inflicted on someone out of cruelty or a desire to manipulate them. The dictionary definition of the verb, to torture, is “To cause intense suffering. To torment”. And he absolutely tortures killers, survivors, and reanimated realm animals alike as a means to his own ends. Also, the Entity has not erased all his memories--I know the archives has some memory deterioration lore added, but much of what he did to others happened well before any of that began, and explicitly some of his own addons mention things he explicitly remembers. The Entity did of course leave him to suffer in the void, with is a form of torture, and used the medical affects of blight itself to help manipulate him. Unfortunately, being hurt yourself doesn’t excuse you from the responsibility of what horrors you inflict on other people.

For part two, I am sure my answer is coming off as a bit abrasive. I appreciate the apology, but yes, it is rather rude. Even without the lack of attention to detail. Let me try to say this more fairly though, because I don’t know you at all, and in all likelihood, you’re a very nice and decent person who doesn’t mean anything by this, and simply has deep feelings about this character. Also, this isn’t all directed just at you, but to some degree at everybody who has sent me one of these in the past, or will in the future, which I am very tired of. I am going to quit answering most of them from here on.

First of all, I understand feeling deeply about a character or topic. I understand being frustrated or even hurt when you see opinions that distress you, or seem unjust compared to what you believe. That’s natural, and even sweet. And I am all for talking about how you feel and think and why, and leaving that in the tags so other people might hear what you have to say. Even for messaging people to see if they want to have a discussion with you. It’s endearing when people love things and want to fight for them. I only describe Talbot as more interesting than many of the others, because I was not asked specifically about my sympathy level, and it doesn’t factor high in importance to me where he is concerned, but you’re not wrong that Talbot is more sympathetic--or, at least, depending on interpretation, much more capable of being written sympathetic while adhering to canon--than many of the other killers. That said, he’s also--completely in line with canon--interpretable as pretty monstrous. I don’t think I necessarily paint him heavily either direction. Simply I personally feel fairly little sympathy for someone who commits the kinds of dehumanizing acts of scientific research torture on war prisoners without a second thought, ignores the consequences of his actions, and so quickly casts his humanity aside when in tribulation. He devolves from someone who could have changed and been good, to a man who is a horrific monster and cares only for him self, with no lines he will not cross (his own words, and pre-killer even). And to some people, that is tragic. To me, I feel little kinship for the man he was before, and am simply disappointed in him for failing so easily and completely. I can see why someone might interpret his character quite differently, but my take is just as valid in line with canon, and it’s mine. 

I don’t mind people telling me their thoughts, and I don’t mind reading takes in the tags. And again, I very much understand the desire to stand up for something you care about if you feel it is wronged. But that’s not really what you’ve done here, messaging me on anonymous. To the best of my knowledge, I have never even interacted with you before. You didn’t open a discussion with me; you talked down to me, and you decided to argue with me about a topic I did not invite anyone into debate with myself. I am not an opinion blog, or a discussion blog. I am a personal blog. But still, you were discontent to not go into my space and try to scold me about my own opinions as a stranger. And you did all of it on anonymous, where there is no tag attaching anything you said even to your online persona, and no way for me to even be assured of you seeing an answer, or entering any dialogue with me. Which means that the goal, subconsciously probably since I know nothing at all about you and have no reason at all to think you’re anything but a decent person who is a bit carried away today with love for Talbot Grimes, but still the goal, was never to have a dialogue with me in the hopes maybe I would see and like your reasoning and we could talk about something we both have an interest in. It was that you felt so entitled to dictate someone you don’t know’s opinion about something they disagree with you on, that you felt compelled to leave a missive instructing me to correct my wrongs in my inbox. 

Which, well, is rude.

This is probably a bit more, uh, ‘icy’? Than is totally necessary. I really am not angry at all; I understand you probably had no real ill will towards me doing this. I just have this happen a lot, and I am tired of it, so I want an easy frame of reference to link back to for why I find this behavior rude and cowardly and an unasked for nuisance--badly intentioned consciously or not. I truly am sorry if this makes you feel bad or distressed to read, especially if you’re a younger fan. I truly am not mad at you--and I do not at all think or mean to imply you are a bad person. Everybody is occasionally thoughtless. It’s not remotely representative of character. But please don’t keep doing this to people who aren’t interested in a debate. And if you believe in something enough you want to take the discussion to someone else, sign your name to it. If you feel enough conviction to make something someone else’s problem, make it your problem for real too. I’m truly not mad though, and wish you the best.

(and my ‘if you are annoyed by this or any of my other personal opinions and desperately want me to read your thoughts on anon about that’ requirements below the cut)

It’s literally not worth my time to read anon hate or people upset I don’t like a serial killer, so if you for some wild incomprehensible reason really feel a need to see me read that and answer to you instead of just delete and/or block without a look, then either leave my $5 on my Kofi, or get used to knowing I didn’t even read it.  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I have to actually get paid to not file that shit under ‘I’m not paid enough to deal with this’. 

[optimistic-dinosaur-nacho]

Chapter X

Story Rating: 14+

Warnings: Violence, Murder, Mentions of Murder, Language, Mentions of Rape, Drugs Mentioned Summary: Y/N is Andy and Laurie Barber’s 14-year-old daughter who is a high-grade student in Archer Middle School. Her best friend, Alice Miller had been gone for a while. They search for the lost student and find out that Alice Miller’s body has the prints of Andy and Laurie Barber’s daughter, Y/N.

Chapter I Chapter II Chapter III Chapter IV Chapter V Chapter VI Chapter VII Chapter VIII Chapter IX Chapter X Chapter XI Chapter XII Chapter XIII

---DEFENDING JACOB SPOILERS---

Just watched the last episode of Defending Jacob, can’t stop crying now

~~~

The drive was somewhat soothing. The music blasting in the car, one of Y/N’s songs she listens to 24/7 if Andy guessed she had. He glances over to see her sticking her head out the window, her hair up and not down to reach her shoulders. Revealing the traces of her jaw and her neck. 

Andy wanted to give Y/N some air. Not feel like she’s stuck in the house forever. Make her feel special. Taking her out fishing was more of a father and son thing, but she loved fishing.

A little father and daughter time out in the lake was better. 

Her hair flowing in the wind, some strands covering her forehead as she looks over to him and grins. “It’s pretty good, right?” She asks, referring to the song, “Admit it.”

Andy nods, “Yeah, it’s not bad. I like it better than the last one. It’s got kind of a Bryan Ferry thing going on,” He says.

“Who?” He heard her say, he turns over in shock. Mouth gaped as he tilts his head at her, “Who?” Y/N grins. “Oh,” He reaches for his phone, “I’m picking the next one.”

Y/N grins up at him and turns away to continue looking out. The two completely forgetting about the bad things that were happening. And looking forward to the good parts.

.

Y/N held onto her fishing rod as Andy nods at the man, “Thank you.” Andy comes over and grabbing the container along with his rod.

Y/N reached for the lures box and followed Andy. Setting up by the dock, Y/N grins at the lake in front of them. “I feel like we’re in a commercial. One of those father-daughter moments. Or maybe father-son moments.”

Andy smiles, throwing out his hook into the lake. “Can I ask you a question?” Y/N asked, Andy doesn’t respond but he welcomed her to ask. “Was it weird seeing your dad again?”

Andy squints up at the lake, thinking about what happened back there. Seeing his reflection match the side of his father’s. Haven’t seen him in 30 years probably.

“A little.”

Y/N turns, “He look the same?”

 “Yeah, pretty much. Older,” He shrugs. Y/N licks her lips and turns, “He was a dick to you, huh?” Andy chuckles at that, thinking she might’ve shared the same mind as him.

“That’s one way to put it,” He says. Y/N’s leg bounces up and turns to look at him again, “You hate him?” Andy thought about that. Sure, his father killed someone. Raped. But he was still a father to him.

“No,” He mumbles, “No, not really.”

“You don’t feel bad for him, do you?” She asks. Andy shakes his head, “No. Not at all.” After that, Y/N gotten quiet. It gave him the time to think about what last night was. 

“I’m sorry you had to go through that,” She says, cutting up his thoughts, Andy looked over, “You wouldn’t have had to go see him if it wasn’t for me.” Andy cranes his neck back.

“Hey,” He says, “Hey, listen to me.” Y/N looks over, “There’s nothing I wouldn’t do for you, okay? Nothing,” He says. Y/N looks away from him and gently nods. It all got quiet for a second, Y/N learning to process what was going on with their lives right now.

What would happen in the future. Andy thought about the party. The thing Sarah had said and the reason why Y/N always tried to shut him out. He probably has the chance now.

“Look... I know this isn’t what you don’t want to talk about, but it’s my job to know what happened at that party. If that happened to you, I need to know who and what.”

Y/N lowers her head, “I don’t remember.” Andy nods at her, “Just try. Start from the beginning when you got there.” Y/N stared at her hands gripping the rod. Swallowing hard, she breathes in shakily.

“I just remembered getting there and Alice was already starting to drink. She kept forcing me to do it.”

“So you took the drink?” Andy asked, Y/N nods, afraid to answer about it. “Then I remembered just that before I woke up... and I realized I was in a bedroom.” Andy shuffles in his seat. 

He knew what happened now. Who knew if Alice asked for Y/N’s pics and she never responded, getting the chance to rape his daughter at a party. Possibly drugs in the drink. Or Derek might’ve done it. Him and Henry could’ve done something to his daughter.

Maybe when Y/N was left in the bedroom, Derek found out about it and killed Alice for it. Or if that middle-aged man who was short enough to act like one of the high schoolers ended up sexually touching his daughter.

Andy tried not to look upset about the possibilities of who done this to her. Derek could’ve wanted to draw himself away because of what he did to Y/N. Between three or four people who could’ve touched his daughter in that way.

He had to tell Joanna about this. He hoped Y/N could possibly get out with this and be proven innocent.

Y/N’s leg bounces again, “Dad...”

Andy looks over to her, seeing her eyes look around the lake as if she was looking for someone or something to help her give her some soothe. “I’m scared.”

His eyes soften, “I know you are. Believe me, if I could take your place, I would. In a minute.” Y/N nods, “I know. It’s just all I think about sometimes. Going to jail.”

“We’re not going to let that happen.”

Y/N somewhat grins, “Bribe the jury?” Andy grins softly at her, “Trial’s still eight weeks out, sweetheart.”

“Seven weeks, three days,” She corrects, Andy nods, giving her some optimistic, “That’s still a lot of time. Anything can happen between now and then. And if we go to trial, we’re gonna fight harder than anyone’s ever fought. They gotta convince all 12 jurors. We just gotta convince one.”

Y/N looked over, him spotting the hint of gloss in her eyes. “Look, I know it’s hard, sweetheart, but why don’t you leave the worrying to me, okay?” Y/N looks away as he follows her gaze out to the lake.

He gently grins, “You wanna make yourself useful? Catch us some dinner.” Y/N smiled.

.

“That was fun. Thanks, dad,” Y/N says, Andy stares at the ground, thinking  about something to do at home, “Movie night?” He asks. Y/N shrugs, “Sure.” He looks up to the shack, holding the cooler in hand. “You wanna choose or should I?” He asked.

Y/N thinks, “Um... Are there any good Eddie Murphy ones I haven’t seen yet?” She asked. Andy nods, “Yeah, absolutely. Let me think.” Andy flinches when his phone began to rang.

He reached into his jean pocket and pulled it out, “Hang on a second, honey.” He reads the caller as Joanna and he took a walk over to the boat, answering, “Joanna.”

“I tried you earlier. It kept going to voice mail,” She says.

“Yeah, sorry, we’re in a bad area,” He replies. “CPAC has Alice’s phone. Derek turned it over,” She said. Andy pauses, “Really?”

“I just brought a motion to compel. If there is anything on that phone, we’ll get to see it. Logiudice looked like he just locked his keys in his car.”

Andy pierced his lips together, “Yeah, I bet.”

“Oh, and I have more news. I got a message from Liz Vogel when I was at the courthouse. Apparently your father’s had a change of heart,” She states. Andy lifts his head up, “What do you mean?”

“He’s agreed to give a DNA sample. She’s going back to the prison to pick it up first thing in the morning,” Joanna says. Andy goes silent as he turns out to the lake. William from being the asshole who didn’t help last time, he finally chosen to do the test.

What made him change his mind?

“Andy, did I lose ya?” Joanna asked. Andy turns back, “No, I’m here. Just... You sure he’s not messing with us?”

“It doesn’t sound that way. Listen, I have to go. We’ll talk tomorrow, okay?”

Andy nods, “Okay. Thanks, Joanna.”

“Bye-bye.” Andy hangs up and slips his phone back into his pocket to join back with his daughter who watched him closely. “What’s wrong?” She asked. Andy shakes his head, “Nothing. That was actually good news.”

Y/N turns and glances at him, “Tell your face.” Andy cranes his neck back, “Ha ha ha...” He fake laughs.

.

Once they returned home, surely enough, the family of four watched a movie in the living room. Milo at Andy’s feet, he reaches over and pets the dog’s head before returning to the movie.

Laurie and Y/N laughed at the movie causing Andy to look over just like he did every movie night. Seeing his family smile, haven’t seen them do that for a while now.

As if everything that was happening to them washed away. Only to have it grow back like mold on wood. 

After that movie, Laurie decided to clean up in the kitchen after Y/N had gone to bed. Coming over to stand behind her by the sink, Andy drops the dishes in the sink and washed them out. Laurie doing the same at the counter.

Not turning around to face her, he spoke, “You went to go see him today, didn’t you?” He asked. Laurie pauses at the question while Andy faces her. “You got him to change his mind,” He adds.

Laurie wipes down the counter, “We only talked for a few minutes. He wasn’t as scary as I thought he would be.” Andy shakes his head, “You didn’t have to do that.”

Laurie turns around, facing her husband, nodding, “Yes, I did.” A few seconds into gazing at each other, she slowly shook her head. “What?” Andy asked. She sincerely looked into his eyes that seem to be red at the slightest.

“You have his eyes.”

He stared blankly at her, he felt a punch feeling to the chest but it didn’t feel negative. He wasn’t so sure what he felt. Was she referring to a murderer’s eyes or someone who could be a good man. Someone who could change. 

Who knew if Y/N shared the same eyes. Would Laurie say the same to her?

That night, Andy watched Laurie sleep soundly next to him. Thinking that she did all of that to see someone she never heard much about, to do one small but huge thing for her daughter. Their daughter.

Laurie wasn’t scared to see him. Braver than Andy was. Just then, his phone buzzed on his nightstand. Turning onto his side, he sees the unknown caller ID and he pulled it up to his ear.

“Hello?”

The loud metal music screamed in his ear, no one was answering. “Who is this?” He asked. The caller didn’t respond, he thought this was some prank caller. “Hello?” His phone beeps three times to indicate they hung up and he stared at the screen and placed his phone back.

 He exhales softly, leaning back on the bed. The phone buzzes again, he groans, “Damn it.” Reaching over again, he sees the same Unknown ID caller and answers the phone, “Hello?”

The same heavy metal music played in the back, “Look, either have the guts to say something or don’t call this number again,” He growls. The caller hangs up again and Andy stares at his screen.

.

Madelyn groans, throwing her phone on the bed, “Fuck!” Dropping onto her bed, she lifts up the bong to her lips, using her lighter, the water bubbles. “Maddie,” Her mother calls, she pulls away and blows out the smoke, “Turn down the music!” 

Reaching for her hair, she lightly tugs and ignored her mother’s calls. Dropping fully on her back, she stared at the ceiling. Her teeth gritting against each other at the thought of what the man spoke about.

About Leonard Patz.

.

Ten days before the trial, Joanna had called about the phone Derek had turned it yesterday. She wanted Andy to come over for them to check out the phone’s data and what Alice may have been doing behind everyone’s backs.

Something they can tie in with the case.

Find a way that Y/N isn’t guilty. 

“Hey, Mr. B,” The man at the food truck spoke, an old friend of Andy’s, “I thought that was you.” Andy turns and grinned, “Hey, Bobby. How you doing?”

Bobby nods, “Not too bad. Can I get you something off the truck?”

“No,I’m okay. Just waiting for somebody,” Andy replies. The man nods, “All right. Well... stay strong for your family, okay?” He points. Andy turns away from him and looked down at his feet, hearing the door open from the courthouse.

“Andy,” Joanna spoke, he turns, “They’re ready for us.” He nods, following Joanna inside the courthouse over to the room where they’ll be going through his phone.

Walking up the stairs, they meet the hall. Andy spotted Neal at the end speaking to a fellow staff. Andy’s gaze seem to get tougher. “Ignore him. He can moan all he wants. The judge already ruled on the phone,” Joanna states.

Neal looks up to them and glared, going back to the files in his hands. “Mr. Barber has every right to be here, Neal,” She said, catching his look of oh-god-he’s-here.

Neal looked up, “Well, technically I could argue that he doesn’t since he’s a possible witness in the case, but I’m letting it slide.” Andy squints up at him. Joanna grins, “What a mensch.”

Neal grins back. Andy jumps in, “You’re not going in there with us, if that’s what you think was gonna happen.” Neal shook his head, “Of course not. I already examined the cell phone.”

Joanna nods, “We are well aware.”

He shook his head again, “I was up here for something else unrelated. I do have other cases.” Joanna shuffles, “Goodbye, Neal. And the next time you want to conceal evidence from us, don’t.”

Neal stood there as the two walk into the room. Before Andy could reach the room, Neal spoke, “Oh, I’ve been meaning to ask,” He says. Andy turns. Neal looks over to him, “How’s your father, Andy?”

Andy stops and turns fully to him, “What’d you say?”

Neal blinks at him, “I asked about your father.” Andy’s glare began to be feral. Angered. Neal continue to agitate him, “How’s he doing?” Andy steps up. “You know, I knew criminal law was a passion of yours, but...” 

Andy was just a feet away from him, “I had no idea it was the family business-Whoa!” Neal shouts as Andy grabs him by his suit and shoves him back. “You think this is a joke? Do you!” Andy growls, jerking him forward.

Pam rushes over, “Hey! Hey, Andy!” She pulls him off. “Come on, Andy!” Joanna says. Andy shrugs her off and storms out of the halls. “Jesus,” Neal hisses. Andy grits his teeth, “Fuck.”

“Don’t lecture me about concealing things,” Neal spoke, Andy turns back to walk back till Joanna steps in front. “Just let it go,” She says. Neal reaches down for his files. Pam holds her hand up, Andy panting furiously at her, “Hey.” Andy turns back around.

“I will say this,” Neal says, “It explains a lot, Andy, about you, about your daughter.” Andy reaches for his face, grazing his beard as his teeth grit in frustration and anger. 

The whole scene now made him feel like this family has some signs of aggressiveness. Closing his eyes, he tried to calm himself down, releasing an exhale through his nose. He dropped his head, “Damn it.”

The two women look over to him, “Detective, are you ready for us?” Joanna asked. Pam nods, “Yeah.” Andy turns around to face them. Pam looks over, “You okay?”

He sighed, holding his hands up, “Sorry.” He turns away and shakes off the tension in his limps. The women began to walk over to the room so Andy follows behind, keeping his head low.

Joanna turns to face him, “We knew he’d find out sooner or later. It’s fine,” She whispers, she gently pulls his arm to bring his attention to her when he looks out. “Andy, we’re already ahead of it.”

He nods as they walk in towards the table, sitting down. “That’s the passcode her parent’s provided,” Pam says, “Take all the time you need.”

“Thank you, Detective.”

Once Pam walked out the door, Andy folded his hands together. “I should’ve told you this sooner but I found out what happened at that party.” Joanna looks over, “About what?”

Andy sighs, “From what I’m hearing, Y/N was drugged and sexually assaulted.” Joanna’s face drops and turns to him. “Andy... Are you sure this happened?”

Andy shakes his head, “I wish it didn’t. We don’t know who it was... If Leonard was caught on the same night in that park, it could’ve been him or Derek.” Joanna shakes her head, “It would be no use if Alice was the one to do it cause she wouldn’t be charge either way.”

Andy drew his eyes toward the bag as Joanna lifts it up. “We’ll figure it out another time. We have something in front of us that could help.” Joanna turns the phone on, showing a photo of her and a familiar face.

Milo.

Alice liked Milo. Her parents didn’t allow her to have dogs but the only close one was the Barber’s dog. After that, they looked through her phone.

.

The session had gone on for a while now, Laurie had been staring at the same painting on the wall to zone out. Mouth gaped, she didn’t even realize she was doing, she turned away from the picture and heard the door open.

Laurie picks up her purse and stands up, Y/N walking out with her hands in her sweatshirt. Vogel comes out, “Sorry to keep you,” She says. Laurie nods, “That’s okay.” Her eyes look toward Y/N, “Hey.” Placing her hand on her daughter’s shoulder, Y/N ignored her gaze and slightly ignored the small gesture of Laurie’s hand.

Laurie draws her eyes back, “Same time next week?”

“Actually, today was our last session.”

Laurie pauses, “Oh. I didn’t realize. So then-”

Vogel gestures slightly, “So then you and Andy are scheduled to meet me with Joanna at the end of next week, the 17th, I believe. We can go over everything then,” Vogel states.

“The 17th?” Laurie asks.

“That okay?”

Laurie turns and gestures to Y/N, “Yeah, no, it’s just. That’s Y/N’s birthday,” She says. “Oh. Um...  Well, if you want, we can just--”

“No, it-it’s fine. Uh, she has her tutor that day, actually so...” Vogel nods. “All right.” Laurie looks over to Y/N, “Ready?” Y/N turns and took a step, “Yeah.” Laurie looks over to Vogel in confusion. What did she say to make Y/N so stumped?

“She’s probably a little talked out.”

Laurie manages to nod, “I’ll see you next week.” Vogel grins, “Right. Take care, Y/N. Happy early birthday.”  Y/N shoots a look at Vogel before replying a grumbled, “Bye.” She was the first to leave and Laurie looks at Vogel once again.

Only to have the doctor smile at her so Laurie gives her one last nod before following Y/N out of the building.

.

The drive was oddly quiet. Usually Y/N would speak throughout the whole drive back about her tutor or talk about her birthday coming up. Laurie was growing concern, “You’re quiet.” She stole glances at Y/N. Her daughter stole the next, “How was your session?” Laurie asked.

Y/N sighs, “It was fine. Annoying.”

“Annoying?” Laurie asked. Y/N looks out, “She just asks me the same questions every week, or different versions of them. When I call her out, she plays dumb... or at least tries. As if she didn’t realize she already asked me.”

Laurie gently shakes her head, “She’s only trying to help us.”

Y/N licks her chapped lips, “If you say so.” The seconds in, Y/N’s phone dings. Looking at the corner of her eye, she sees Y/N slip her phone out. “Who’s that?” She asked.

Y/N ignores her and began to type on her phone, “Y/N, who are you texting-?”

“Nobody. Dylan,” She says. Laurie tilts her head, “Dylan Stone?” Y/N’s phone dings again, “He’s at a sleepaway camp. This kid doesn’t believe he knows me so he’s trying to prove it,” Y/N grins.

The thought of her being popular around the country of being a murderer wasn’t what Laurie wanted to happen. The texting was selfish. Not right in her perspective. Very childish.

“How’s Matthew and Sarah? Haven’t heard their names in a while.” Y/N and Laurie look at each other for a second. Laurie turns away, “It’s good for you to have someone your own age to talk to.”

Y/N scratches the back of her head, “We’re not talking, so...”

Laurie looks over, “Is that your doing, or--”

“Mom, please. Don’t,” Y/N interrupts. Laurie stops and glanced at Y/N. Always had the habit to shut her out. Just like Andy would do.

.

Sent by Alice Got back my math test. 92!!

From Eric Amazing!

From Marla Super proud! We’ll celebrate at dinner, babygirl!

Andy looks over the messages in the phone and came across every small thing that just didn’t feel wrong to him. Just simple happiness to the family and prove how innocent they were.

A happy family

Sent by Alice Grace is coming over after soccer!

From Marla Is she staying for dinner?

Sent by Alice I’ll ask :)

The next conversation was between her and her dad, Eric. The game that happened to not come across to Alice. A soccer game that happened to be a week after Alice’s death.

From Eric PHOTO Got us tix for next week

Sent by Alice Awesome, thanks daddy!

Andy continued to scroll through the messages. The only names who were recent was her parents. It slowly broke his heart to see how much their family was just like his before everything came crashing down.

From Marla PHOTO Aunt Lisa just sent this. So cute!

The door opens to Joanna who walked in with two cups of coffee, she sat down and placed a cup in front of Andy. “Thanks,” He mumbles, he reaches over and takes a sip of it. “Anything?” Joanna asks.

Andy slowly shook his head.

.

The five hours of searching through Alice’s phone, Joanna began to sign the form for people who were last to check Alice’s phone for safety reasons. A check-in and check-out form to be exact. 

“Thanks, Detective,” Joanna says, handing her the clipboard, Pam nods, “Yeah. You got it.” Joanna’s phone began to ring as she lifts it up and glances at Andy who leaned in the doorway. “It’s my office,” She says, “Can you give me a minute?”

Andy nods, “Yeah.” Hearing her voice answer the phone, Andy kept his head low as he stared at his feet. Without knowing, Pam watched him stand there and she took the courage to walk up.

“Hey,” She says.

Andy looks up for a second to say, “Hey,” back. His head still hangs low as she  sighs softly,  “Listen, I just want you to know, I think it was fucked up, what Logiudice did.”

Andy lifts up his head, “Nah. He was being a lawyer. If I was in his place, I’d probably try to bury the phone too.” Pam shakes her head, “No, I think you would have thought about it, but you would have done the right thing... That’s not what I was referring to though,” She says.

Andy looks over to her and slightly changes his footing, putting his right foot over the other, “You mean what he said about my father,” He nods, “Everybody knows, huh?”

“Started going around yesterday. You know how people talk around here.” Andy sighs, knowing if people could gossip when Andy’s not working no more, they could say anything about him or his father.

“What have you heard?” He asked.

Pam stared, blankly, “That he’s serving life at Northern for rape and murder one.” Andy lifts up his hand and slowly breathed in, “He went in when I was a kid.” He looks over to Pam.

She lowers her chin, “I take it Laurie knows?” Andy turns away, “She does now. Y/N too.” Pam lowers her head next, taking her feet over to stand in front of him before speaking.

“I have a brother,” She spoke, “I told you about him.”

Andy lifts up his head, “Yeah.” She nods, “So I know what that’s like, carrying something like that around.” Andy couldn’t speak as his lips close shut as she sighs. “Listen, my hands are mostly tied on this case, but, you know... if you need any more of my help you know how to reach me.”

Andy nods at her, “Thank you.”

“Don’t underestimate him. He sounds real sure he’s gonna win. Too sure,” She says. Andy thought over confidence could somewhat be embarrassing. Proven wrong it could really change you, especially for something big like this.

Footsteps began to approach the two and Joanna comes up with a small grin. “Shall we go?” She asked. Andy looks over, “Let’s go.” Andy turns to Duff and gently winks at her.

“Thanks, Duff.”

Following beside Joanna, she spoke, “That was my assistant Ellen. She has a niece Y/N’s age,” Andy looks over, “They live in Needham, but you know how all the kids know each other these days.”

Andy and her continued to walk as she looked at him again, “It seems Y/N has been going online again.” Andy comes to a stop and looks at Joanna.

God dammit.

.

Andy busts through the door and slams it, “Y/N!” He calls. Laurie turns to Andy’s calling and sees him walk in quickly. He spots Laurie and stops, “Where’s Y/N?” Milo rushes in and began to wag his tail at his boss’s presence.

Laurie had the change look of worry and confusion, “Upstairs. How did it go with the phone?” Andy grits his teeth and clenched his fists, “It was a bust,” Turning his heel, he rushes upstairs. “Y/N!”

Laurie stands up from the table and follows behind.

Andy storms into Y/N’s room, seeing her on her laptop. “Are you May Kobbs?” He asks, harshly. Y/N perked up and Laurie comes in. Andy’s fists go pale, “Answer me, damn it!”

“Andy,” Laurie says.

Y/N crosses her legs, “It’s not that big of a deal,” She mutters. Andy’s brows furrow in anger, Laurie looked confused and scared. “Don’t tell me what’s not a big deal! Show your mother. Show her what you’ve been up to,” He says.

Y/N swallows thickly as she goes onto the account. Andy shakes his head as he heard the typing. Turning her screen, Laurie sees the post. 

May Kobbs What people think of me

The photo was a photoshop of Y/N’s face on Patrick Bateman, the American Psycho film. With only one follower and one post. Laurie’s face drops, “Shit. Y/N!” She says.

Y/N lowers her head, “It’s just a dumb joke.”

“Do you have any idea what this looks like?” Andy asks, “Joking about being a murder suspect?” Y/N looks up to him, “It’s not like anyone even knows who it is,” She stammers.

“Everybody knows!” Andy shouts and leans forward, “How do you think I know?” Laurie drops her hand, “Andy, calm down.” He looks over but quickly whips back towards Y/N.

“This-” His hand lifts up, “-is damaging. This is evidence, and you’re either too stupid or too arrogant to know the difference.” Y/N’s eyes began to get glossy. “I’m not stupid.”

“Then what’s wrong with you?” Andy asks.

“Nothing! You’re making too big of a deal out of this,” She says. “Do you have any idea what they’re gonna do with this picture?” Andy asks, he lifts his arm up, “They’re gonna wave it around in front of the jury and they’re gonna say it shows consciousness of guilt. That’s the phrase they’re gonna use.”

Y/N lowers her head and a tear streams down her cheek, “They’re gonna say this is how Y/N Barber sees herself, a psycho!” Laurie throws a look at her husband, “And they’re gonna use that word over and over again.”

“Andy, enough,” Laurie says.

“Jesus Christ,” Andy grits, turning to the door, “Do you know what’s at stake?” He asks, turning back, “Do you realize what they want to do to you?” Laurie gapes at him, “Stop it already.” Y/N had more tears fall down her redden cheeks. “You’re scaring her!”

“Good!” He shouts, turning to his daughter, “She should be scared! I’m scared!” Y/N drew her eyes down and inhaled slowly, “It was just a joke. I can delete it.”

“That doesn’t mean it goes away,” Andy says, his shoulders heaving up and down and the look of fear and anger. Y/N gently wipes her cheeks with her sleeves. “Okay. I’m sorry.”

“You can’t do things like this, Y/N. You just can’t,” Andy says. She swayed a bit, shaking at the slightest, “I said I’m sorry.”

Laurie looks over, “I think she should delete it anyway.” Andy sighs, nodding, “You’re goddamn right she’s gonna delete it. She’s gonna delete it right now.”

Y/N sniffles and reaches for her laptop, beginning to delete it, “This can’t happen again,” Andy says, “I need to know you understand that.” Y/N taps on her keyboard and nods, “I do. There,” She turns the screen, “It’s gone.”

The account may_kobbs has been permanently deleted. 

After that, Laurie walks out of her room. Leaving Andy there with his daughter. She slammed her laptop close and curled up on her side. Andy slowly lowered his head and shook it, placing his hands on his hips. “I’m sorry I yelled.”

Y/N doesn’t respond, eyes closed, hoping that all this was just some nightmare and open her eyes to see her dad not standing there any longer. “I shouldn’t have lost my temper. I just...” He walks over and sits on the edge of her bed, by her feet.

“I’m trying to look out for you, honey. You gotta understand that-”

“Just leave me alone...” She mumbles.  Andy looks over, “Y/N-”

“Please...” Her voice cracks in sorrow, the voice filled with tears and fear. She brought her feet closer to her and Andy saw that. Taking it as a sign, he looks away, “Okay,” He softly says.

He stands up but then stops, to say something but she spoke. “Okay, so go,” She says. Andy lowers his head and began to walk out. Y/N gently shuffles, “There’s nothing wrong with me,” She adds. Andy turns to her, “I know exactly what they’re going to do to me. I don’t need you to tell me that...”

The moment Andy heard her, he stopped. Not knowing what to say, he knew nothing was wrong with her. She was just a kid and she doesn’t know what they could see on the media. He just left her without another word.

.

Laurie pours in water and dog food into Milo’s bowl late at night as he took a small sniff and trotted away. She spotted Andy on his laptop, scanning through the webs. 

His eyes burned at the screen

All in the Family: Convicted Murderer “Bloody Billy” Barber Spawns a New Criminal Generation

“Are you gonna take out the garbage out, or should I?” Laurie asks, looking over to him. His shoulders were down as his finger grazes over the pad, “It’s everywhere.”

Laurie drops her head and shrugs, “It is what it is.” Andy continued to scan the websites and reports of his father. 

A few minutes later, Andy walks out with the can rolling behind him. Milo was out in the front sniffing around for moles or weeds in the grass as Andy pulls up to the curb with the can and parked it.

Andy glanced down the road and spotted a car parked in front of his neighbor’s house. He could see a faint light in the car from the cigarette being dragged and the smoke flowing out of their car window.

That car was familiar to him as he turned back and walked up the stairs, glancing over, “Milo, come.” The dog snorts and follows Andy up the stairs. Stepping through the front door, he lets Milo in and closes it. 

“Have you noticed an old blue car on the block recently? A Lincoln?” Andy asks Laurie in the kitchen. His wife looks up, “No. I don’t think so. Why? Who is it?” Andy shakes his head, “I don’t know. I saw him idling in front of the MacGreeveys’ house the other day. And now he’s in front of the Parson’s.”

No further questions were asked as Laurie followed Andy outside to see this blue car parked out in the street. Looking down the road, right to left, Andy didn’t see the car. Laurie shivered slightly and crosses her arms, “Where?” She asked.

Andy looked over to where he spotted the car, “It’s gone.” She follows his gaze as he turns, “It’s probably nothing. It’s okay.” Gently placing his hand on his wife’s back, he follows her back into the house and they got ready for bed.

That night, at 3 am, Andy woke up to the sound of his phone buzzing. Turning onto his side, he peers down at his phone and saw the Unknown Caller once again.

Prank callers.

He gripped his phone and pulled it up to his ear, “Look, I don’t know who this is, but if you keep calling this number--”  He cuts off to the familiar female voice. “Who?”

He then remembers who they were. “Oh, right, right,” He pulls the sheets off him, “Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course I remember.” He pauses once they started talking more. “When?”

Thinking he may need to write this down, he goes over to his notepad on his stand and grabbed a pen. “Okay. All right. I’ll find it.”

.

Just minutes after that call, Andy takes a night drive to the pizza parlor. Just across from Domino’s, Andy walks across the street and swings the door open. Seeing the blonde hair at one of the booths, he walks over.

Madelyn turns to see him come in view. “Hey,” She greets, Andy slides in the booth, “What’s going on?” He asked. She runs a hand through her disheveled hair, “Look, I’m sorry I called you so late. It’s just--” “Yeah, that’s okay,” Andy says, “It’s okay. What’s up?” Madelyn glanced up at him a few times, her eyes began to gaze around. He leans forward, “Madelyn,” His hands hold out to her in a ‘what?’

“You said you had something to tell me.”

She nods, “I do. It’s just...” Her hands tap on the wooden table nervously. Andy lifts up his head, thinking about that Lincoln earlier, “Wait. Are you the one who’s been coming to my house?” He asked.

Madelyn furrows her brows, “What?”

Guess not. Andy shuffles in his seat, “Nothing. Nothing. Forget it. Go.” Madelyn sighs, “I wasn’t gonna say anything ‘cause, I mean, what’s it my business? But I can’t fucking sleep. It’s, like, on me--”

Andy shakes his head, “Madelyn, I have no idea what you’re talking about-”

“Your girl...” She cuts him off, she shook her head.

“She didn’t do it.”

.

“Tell me about Leonard Patz. Where did you meet him?” Lynn asks. That next day, Andy asked Madelyn to somewhat explain everything towards the DA who could prove something that Leonard Patz could be attached to this case and prove that his daughter is innocent.

Madelyn and her mother both sat at the table with Duff, Andy, Joanna and Lynn. Neal was behind Andy listening. Madelyn had her blonde hair up in a ponytail, acrylic nails were almost half chewed or the polish was rubbing off. “I was at C&M. You know, the pizza place,” She replies.

“When was this?” Lynn asked.

“About a year ago. Last summer,” Madelyn says, Lynn raises her brows, “So you were 15 at the time?” The girl nods, “Yeah.”

“This morning is the first I heard about any of this,” Maddie’s mother says, Lynn nods at her. “I understand. Please continue.” Andy looks over to the teenager. “Anyway, Patz comes up to me and asked if I wanted something to eat. He said he’d buy me whatever I wanted if I’d sit with him, ‘cause he hated eating alone.”

Neal shoots a look at the back of Andy’s head before he looks over to the kid, “So I said fine. I mean... It’s free food,” Madelyn says, “So then we’re eating, and he tries to sound like some tough guy to impress me or whatever, you know, and I’m playing along, letting him think I can’t tell what a loser he is. And after a while, he starts talking about his sweet apartment, and how he’s got all this beer there, and if I wanna go back and hang out with him.”

“And did you?” Lynn asks.

Madelyn shakes her head, “Hell, no. I knew what he wanted. Straight up told him I wasn’t going nowhere with him, but...” She pauses to take a deep breath through her nose, she glanced over to her mom. “Maybe if he had some money, we could work something out.”

“Go on,” Lynn says.

“So, he says he’ll give me 5 bucks if he can touch me over my shirt. So, I told him I’d let him do it for a hundred,” She says. “And he agreed?” Lynn confirms. The teenager nods, “Yeah, like, right away. So after that we’d meet up here and there whenever he had some cash, do the same thing, just different places.”

Her mother looks away with an unexplained look. “He never tried for more?” Lynn asks. “Well, one time he asked if he could reach his hand down my shorts, but I told him I’d break his fucking arm.”

“How’d he react?” Lynn asks. Madelyn shrugs, “He backed off quick.”

“And these meetups, how many were there in total?”

“I don’t know, six. Maybe seven.”

“Including the one at the library?” Lynn asks. She nods, “Yeah, that was the last time. Leonard said he didn’t wanna pay me anymore. I told him if he didn’t, I’d report him, so I did.”

Neal stands up,  “I’m sorry. I-- I don’t see how this relates to our case,” He says. “Well, you see, that was his whole reason for dropping me. He said there was this new kid he was into, some kid named Alice and some other, he didn’t mention. Said to have h/c hair.” Andy’s shuffled in his seat.  

“Just Alice and the h/c girl, or did he give a last name?”

“No, but I know it was the same kid ‘cause of the park. He was gonna make a move after this party he heard. That’s where Leonard met her,”  Madelyn says. “So you’re saying Patz knew Alice Miller?” Lynn asks.

Neal rolls his eyes and sits back down. “I don’t think he actually knew her. But he spoke to her a couple times. Mostly just watched her,” Madelyn said. “Did he say anything else about Alice and this other girl?”

“Just that she was ‘beautiful’ and ‘perfect’. He used those words,” Maddie replies. Lynn looks and nods at her, “That’s all?” Madelyn slowly nods. “Yeah.” Glancing over to Y/N Barber’s father, she saw his brows raise up.

She inhales sharply, “Oh, shit, wait. He also had a knife.” Neal scoffs at that. “I only saw it once, but he carried it around sometimes, you know, in case someone gives him shit. Anyway, he tried to give it to me for money once time. I told him to fuck off.”

“What did it look like?” Lynn asks. Madelyn shrugs, “A knife, you know? With those little teeth on the side of it. It was kind of sick actually.” Lynn furrows her brows and blinks up at her. “Why did it take you this long to come forward?”

“Well, I mean, I got kind of a record, you know, with the whole possession charge, and lying about the library thing. I just wanted to stay out of it, you know? I heard his kid was getting blamed for it and I just kept thinking about--”

“Wait a second,” Neal interrupts, he stood up, “Did Mr. Barber compel you to come forward?”

Madelyn looks over to her mom and smiled, “Compel me?”

“Did you feel pressured in any way by Mr. Barber?” Lynn asks, Andy turns, “She called me with this.” Lynn looks over to him, “Please let her answer, Andy.” The two look back at the girl.

“No, I mean, he came to me first. I didn’t tell him anything, and so I guess, I don’t know, it was a little bit of both.”

“Yes or no? Were you coached in any way by Mr. Barber?” She asks. Madelyn laughs, “No, what I told you three is the truth. I got no reason to lie.” Neal perks up, “Really?” Madelyn looks up to him, “‘Cause you’ve made it pretty clear that you’d do a lot of things for money.”

Madelyn’s mouth gapes at the man. Joanna shakes her head, “Oh, that’s outrageous.” Mrs. McGrath scoffs, “The fuck? That’s my daughter you’re talking about.”

“Neal,” Lynn says, sternly. He looks at her and silently turns away without another word. Madelyn sighs, “Can I go now?” Lynn nods, “Thank you for coming in. I’m sure this wasn’t easy. Detective Duffy will take down your information in case we need to talk with you again.”

The two nod and stand up from their chairs, Duff steps behind them as they walked out quietly, leaving Lynn, Andy, Joanna and Neal in the room. Lynn turns to Andy, “I don’t know what to make of that girl’s story or how you cam to hear of it.”

Andy cranes his neck back, Neal nods, “I don’t believe a word of it.” Lynn looks over to him, “It’s too convenient. I can’t believe we’re entertaining this,” He whispers the last sentence.

Turning away, Lynn thinks about this Leonard Patz. It wouldn’t hurt to look in his house, if he’s been after a kid named Alice and some other girl that could be linked to Y/N. They needed answers.

Lynn glances at Andy who quirks his brows up for an answer. She sighs, “We’ll write up a search warrant for Patz’s home.” Neal turns away in defeat. “See if we can turn up a knife,” She adds.

Andy shuffles in approval, trying not to grin.

“Thank you.”

~~~

The season finale is tomorrow, but that doesn’t mean, my story ends now.

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[stillness-in-green]

MLAWeek Coda: The Lore Post

Sorry this is a few days late!  To the surprise of absolutely no one who has read some of my longer meta posts, I just don’t know how to shut the F up.  (Spoilers: this post is only a few hundred words away from being as long as everything else I wrote for the week put together.)  

Anyway, hit the jump for, in order:

A quick breakdown of the Liberation Army’s general structure.

A list of members, broken down by broad generation, including the ones we have gotten explicitly IDed in canon, the ones I based on figures we see in canon, and the ones I completely made up.

The basic tenets of the MLA and some discussion about their views on quirk supremacy. (feat. fandom salt)

An overview of the way the Advent shook up the political landscape in Japan and the Hearts & Minds Party’s place in that landscape.  Pretty much the same material Trumpet’s victory speech from Day 4 covers, but modestly more in-depth, removed from the need to play well to a crowd, and with some added explanation about the structure of the Diet for readers who are less familiar with it than Trumpet’s audience would be.

A timeline (with only moderately arbitrary dates!) covering the birth of the glowing baby up to the first year of the manga.  Mostly concerned with detailing the events the MLA would care about, but with a few other points of reference to contextualize things for the rest of us.

Bonus Fun Facts: discussion of the considerations that went into the timeline, a look at All For One’s actions re: the MLA, and some miscellaneous blurbs on terminology, worldbuilding and characterization.

A smattering of asides in the form of footnotes.

Note that while this material is based in and accurate to canon as much as I could remember at the time that I was doing my notes on my fills for the week, there’s a lot in here that is based entirely on supposition, interpretation and, at times, just plain-old guessing.  

Thanks to @codenamesazanka and @robotlesbianjavert for their assistance in naming, brainstorming, and just generally putting up with me while the Liberation Army was completely devouring my attention.

@red-the-omnic Somewhat belatedly, here’s that list of MLA members you asked for back during the middle of the week.  Sorry to make you wait so long! 

Enjoy!  

———–      ———–      ———–      ———–

ORGANIZATION

Grand Commander: Destro and Destro’s line of descendants.

The First Families: Those who fought at Destro’s side and escaped to continue the fight, and their descendants.  Veritably all high-ranked within the MLA, their tie to the original incarnation of the Army marks them as elites, whether or not their quirks would do so otherwise. The elders of the First Families do a certain amount of collective decision-making when and if the Grand Commander is unable to do so and has left orders otherwise.

Sanctum: “Sanctum” is a special position in the Army.  The name denotes the person who’s tasked with remembering the MLA’s history, practices and lore—the position is considered contiguous, so even when someone is new to the name, they’re still considered “the longest-serving member of the Liberation Army.”.  When they’re getting on in years, they select an appropriate protégé, to whom the name will pass upon their death/capture.  The name must always go to a member of the First Families (though in truth, they’re only on their third one, so it’s more of a pattern so far than a hard rule).

Commanders & Lieutenants: People in charge of major operations, liberated districts, etc. Frequently, though not always, members of the First Families.  Have discretion over their own assignments, but may not have much influence in the Army’s operations on the whole, depending on who they’re connected to otherwise.

Advisors: This title denotes those who are specifically tapped to give advice and aid to the MLA leadership.  Levels of authority vary depending on who they’re advising.  Advisors of lieutenants, if any, are a step above the rank and file, advisors of commanders are about on par with lieutenants, and advisors to the Grand Commander are considered commanders in their own right, regardless of any other rank they may hold.

Rank and File: Pretty much everyone else.

———–      

KNOWN MEMBERS [1]

The original MLA—

Destro: Yotsubashi Chikara.  Established the Meta Liberation Army in his mid-30s in response to the development of what he felt were overly restrictive laws on the usage of meta-abilities. Having observed evidence that meta-abilities grew stronger generationally, he was particularly concerned that no oppressive laws could be enforced by the generation that established them because the next generation would always be more powerful.  Thus, he believed that establishing the use of meta-abilities as a fundamental right was the only way for society to avoid indefinite intergenerational strife.  He was particularly incensed by the government co-opting the message that got his mother murdered to put a pretty, self-congratulatory sheen on laws that did the exact opposite of what she wished for.  Allegedly committed suicide after some months in prison.  The MLA is highly suspicious of this claim—they’re correct to be, but not for the reasons they think.              His quirk, which his entire line would inherit, turns a key emotion into enhanced strength and resilience in the form of a characteristic ink-blot marking.  While it would develop over time, the basic nature of the quirk remained the same. Chikara’s driving emotion was resolve.

Fathom: Destro’s lover, she dedicated a decade of her life after his capture to building up the survivors he’d left behind.  It’s said her son got his drive from Destro, but his anger from Fathom.  Had a large hand in raising her son to be the sort of man he was, particularly in her decision to commit what many considered to be suicide-by-hero when he was in his teens.  A large part of that choice was wrapped up in her never-fully-assuaged grief over Destro’s loss (and, she believed to the end, his murder), but there was also a cold calculation to it—her making a big show of it would lead the police to believe that her attack was the last gasp of the Liberation Army, ending their investigations into MLA activities.  It would also stoke the fires of her son’s rage, honing him into a stronger weapon against their enemies.  Her judgement in both cases proved broadly on-point, though her death did serve to make her son more cautious than she might have hoped.              Meta-Ability: Antennae.  A pair of insectile feelers emerging from her forehead that give her a passel of sensory boosts, particularly in the taste and smell categories, and which also make her able to detect shifts in the air from quite some distance.)

Cascade: A man whose meta-ability lets him turn body parts into loosely controllable masses of water.  Can’t transform fully.  A quick-thinking type able to make hard calls.

Sweeper: A woman with a radio-scanning quirk.  Caught by police in the same fight as Destro.

Sanctum I: The first bearer of the codename.  Had a protective ability of some sort.

Sanctum II’s father: The same quirk as his daughter; see below.  Known for getting some eight people safely out of a police raid by carrying them all out at once despite not actually having superhuman strength of any kind.  (Probably tore several muscles in the process, but adrenaline is a hell of a thing.)

The Second Generation—

Destro’s son: Raised to deeply resent heroes and the government that put them in place, but he was also very cautious of them.  He was profoundly aware that his death would mean the end of the dream that his father had begun and his mother had cultivated, so he was very meticulous in spreading the MLA’s influence underground, rebuilding their numbers before he even began to consider starting to make attacks again.  Destro’s army had been a guerilla force; his son’s would be something much more dangerous.  His driving emotion was anger, and he had two children before being killed by a cerebral aneurysm at 43.  Was able to use his power to make his body larger.

Sanctum II: A woman with an unusual fondness for the traditional Japanese arts, particularly tea ceremony.  Meta-ability: Stride.  Teleport to any location she can directly see by taking a single step forward.   Can take whoever she can carry under her own power. (First Families lineage)

Anchor: An advisor to Destro’s son.  Prominent bull horns.  Meta-ability: Immobilize.  Similar to Lock Rock’s Lockdown quirk, except it only works on his own body.  Very good at wrestling holds (and holding his breath), he tends to fight with backup that can deliver finishing blows to opponents once he has them pinned down.  (First Families lineage)

The Third Generation—

Yotsubashi Kyouyuki: The elder child of Destro’s son.  Deemed an unsuitable Grand Commander for his driving emotion of joy.  Always presented a façade of being cheerful and upbeat, but the ever-present rhetoric that the MLA pushes about the ongoing suppression of quirks and the misery and injustice it leads to left Kyou always struggling with guilt.  In college, it finally got so bad that he resolved to run away, enlisting the help of a friend with a swap-based teleport quirk to get him out of a party undetected. His fate thereafter is a secret that’s been taken to the grave by the MLA members involved in it, but given the typical reactions of illegal underground cults to members wanting to leave, it’s unlikely that he’s living somewhere in happy anonymity.  (Name means Unyielding Happiness, following in his grandfather and nephew's patterns of having characters in their names meaning power/strength.)

Yotsubashi Yukie: The younger child of Destro’s son, and Rikiya’s mother.  With a driving emotion of sorrow, and having been steadily losing family her entire life, Yukie wrestled with depression for most of her life. The presumptive heir to the title of Re-Destro, she spent considerably more time in training than her older brother, but she never much had the temperament for it.  When her father died only a few scant years after Kyouyuki’s disappearance, she expressed her fears that she was incapable of being the leader the Army needed.  This led to her becoming a mother at a relatively young age, continuing the bloodline rather than picking up the banner.  For all her struggles with her grief, Yukie was very determined to at least be there for the son on whom the weight of leadership would fall.  The world of My Hero Academia is a dangerous one, however, particularly before All Might established himself as Japan’s pillar, and Yukie was a casualty of the chaos of a villain attack when Rikiya was ten.  (Name means Glittering Conqueror, ditto the note above about the family pattern for name kanji.)

Rampart: Guardian and general caretaker for Rikiya in his younger years.  Hand-picked for the role by Yukie, who had considered him a close friend since their school days.  Meta-Ability: An earth manipulation power akin to Pixie-Bob’s, though less powerful.  (First Families lineage)

Shinseigi: Trumpet’s uncle, unspecified code name.  Also in politics, though of a more local variety.  Meta-ability: His speaking voice makes listeners suggestible.  (The phonetic pronunciation of his name sounds like “New Justice,” but the kanji are “Sleeping Voice Technique.”)

The Fourth Generation—

Yotsubashi Rikiya: The current Re-Destro (42); CEO and President of Detnerat.  He took up the former title when he was only 6 years old. With the succession of losses that were his uncle, grandfather and mother, the MLA has been fairly careful with him, grooming him with care and rarely leaving him without some form of supervision, be it Rampart when he was young or Trumpet in college.  An extremely dutiful child grown into an urbane man whose good humor disguises a morose—and occasionally volatile—inner character.  Always under a lot of stress (his MRIs are clear so far, though, haha!), but there’s only so much effort dedicated to mitigating that, since stress is his key emotion.  The first in the family line to be able to separate his power from his own body, in the form of his Stress Bomb attack.

Trumpet: Hanabata Koku (44).  One of Rikiya’s advisors and party leader of the Hearts & Minds Party (see below); has known Rikiya since their preteen years.  The Hanabatas were a political family of old, but largely saw those fortunes crash and burn when they started manifesting quirks a few generations into the Advent.  They’ve been clawing their way back into politics ever since and were an early target for the MLA’s project to infiltrate and/or start their own political party.  It was decided very early on that Koku’s quirk and his family connections made him a good choice to groom for leadership of the HMP, so he and Rikiya bonded over their similar positions.  They would go on to attend the same university, during which time they became romantically involved.  In truth, Koku’s university was functionally chosen for him on the basis of which one Rikiya would be attending; the First Families were not about to lose another Yotsubashi to college life.  Koku is more aware of this particular fact than Rikiya.  Still a little wistful about their college days, his opinions regarding Re-Destro’s big starstruck crush on Shigaraki are borderline unprintable.

Sanctum III: Twice’s No. 1 advisor, the dude with the big imperial handlebar moustache and what looks an awful lot like a dress uniform for the Japanese navy.  A few years older than Trumpet.  (First Families lineage)

Curious: Kizuki Chitose (36).  RD advisor and Shoowaysha Publishing Executive Vice President.[2]  From a relatively small liberated district up near Sendai; the MLA connections plus her own profound ambition got her moving very quickly up the MLA chain of command. Daughter of a wlw couple; got her blue skin from her bio mom.  One younger sibling, a sister.  Masterminded the dinners we see the group having in Chapter 218, originally to make sure Rikiya was getting at least one well-apportioned meal a week and a chance to socialize with the closest thing he has to peers, but also because it proved to be an invaluable opportunity to swap information and rumors.

Skeptic: Chikazoku Tomoyasu (31).  RD advisor and Feel Good Inc. board member.  On the bottom end of the generation age-wise, a prodigy in every sense save his broadly terrible people skills.  Recognizes Rikiya’s stress tells because he shares several of them himself, and is also the only person of Rikiya’s generation with the confidence to verbally push him around a bit.  It’s regarded as borderline scandalous by their elders, but Rikiya himself finds it bracing, and anyway, Skeptic’s ability to organize a schedule for maximum efficiency is nothing less than miraculous.  Got Rikiya onto fidget toys.

Toryu:  Toryu is the family name of Galvanize (aka Taser Face aka Kaminari’s Dad).  Mr. Compress’s No. 1, the dude who strolls out onto the lawn after Cementoss rips the hotel a new one and immediately gets his smarm repackaged and returned to sender by Kaminari and Edgeshot.  Great for morale before that, though!  In Rikiya’s age group, his mother’s side of the family (from which he gets the electricity powers) has been in the Army for at least as far back as her school days. (The name comes from the characters for leaping/rising and current/flow.)

Slidin’ Go: Tokoname Tatsuyuki (37).  He’s Slidin’ Go!  Skeptic’s No. 2, possibly because Slidin’ Go strongly resembles the puppets Skeptic is so used to barking orders at and there’s comfort in familiarity.

Aozono: Family name for another of Rikiya’s childhood peers, nothing is known but that green skin runs in the family as far back as her father.  May or may not be related to Curious’s family.

The Fifth Generation—

Geten: Real name unknown.  Family status unknown.  Age unknown, but I’d peg him in the 18-23 area.  Seems to be allowed to attend the weekly dinners without contributing anything but his incredibly terrible table manners.  Can talk an impassioned game about the Liberation Army’s goals (though he pushes the quirk supremacy line a good deal harder than anyone else in the Army is shown to; it’s not even close), but it’s fairly clear that he’s more personally dedicated to Re-Destro than he is the MLA’s cause in and of itself.  I’ll be honest; I have no idea what Geten’s deal is. My tentative headcanon is that he’s an orphan—the English meaning of his name, Apocrypha, refers to sacred writings of uncertain authorship/authenticity—who’s in some kind of Batman-and-Robin guardian-and-ward situation with Re-Destro, but I didn’t wind up writing enough about him to come up with much beyond that.

Nimble: Spinner’s No. 1, the woman with the weird paper-strip-esque hair who doesn’t seem to be in possession of a nose or mouth.  (She absorbs air through her skin like a frog, which is why no one has ever seen her with that sweater covering both of her shoulders.)  Nimble is a friendly sort, though she regards her outgoing good cheer as being a simple matter of social networking.  Ambitious, but sensible about it.                Meta-ability: Sky Write.  Allows her to project letters and pictures into the air around her, giving her a way to communicate she would have otherwise lacked.  She can create words in air she can’t see, but it takes some concentration, and the closer the better.

Scarecrow: Spinner’s No. 2, 21 years old.  Born with amelia (see link in Day Two’s author’s notes) that disfigured his face and severed his arms in the womb.  His quirk-based forelegs—a pair of spider legs emerging from his shoulders—can do a certain amount of basic object manipulation, but it tends to wig people out, so they push him to use his prosthetics like he’s “supposed” to (see Stray Notes section for more on this).  He was viciously angry about it even as a kid, and his parents were frustrated, making them easy pickings for cult indoctrination.  A family friend recommended that they look into Detnerat, where it wasn’t long before Re-Destro himself took an interest in their situation (or at least in making a good impression on them).  Scarecrow joined the Army as quickly as he was allowed to—16.              Meta-ability: Webbing.  The bug legs can project silk like a webspinner (the insect on which he’s based), allowing him to do anything you might broadly understand Spider-Man to be able to do with his webbing, though he certainly lacks Spider-Man’s strength.

Red: Named in passing in the manga, he’s the laid-back dude with the fluffy hair who serves as Skeptic’s No. 1 post-merger.  Probably invaluable in helping Skeptic maintain what bare vestiges of chill he can muster.  (First Families lineage)

The Sixth Generation—

Every child currently under the age of 10 being raised in MLA households with a picture of Destro over the mantle.  It’s not a small number, representing a group that neither the fandom nor the Hero Commission seem to have even realized exist.

———–      

CORE TENETS & THE MATTER OF QUIRK SUPREMACY

Re-Destro is not (contrary to popular fandom belief) in favor of full-throated, might-makes-right, survival of the fittest Quirk Darwinism.[3]  Destro’s will was for people to be able to use their meta-abilities as they saw fit to the extent that that freedom did not interfere with the freedoms of others. He was against the regulation of meta-abilities, but he was not—to the best of our knowledge—against the regulation of crime.  His belief was that one murderer with a fire ability killing people did not justify barring everyone else with fire abilities from using those powers to fire clay, start campfires, engage in fire-themed performance art, use fire to char wood in artistic patterns for money, help park rangers set and direct controlled burns, coordinate explosions for the movie industry, light cigarettes in public, or any other of dozens of possible uses for a fire ability that don’t involve burning people alive.

The MLA do believe that meta-abilities have an impact on one’s personality, but they also believe that that’s okay; that it should be understood and accepted, not feared and repressed—Curious would not have wanted to turn Toga into a tragedy about the consequences of repression if she didn’t think that a spree of bloodletting murders was a tragedy.  Their belief as an organization is that people should be free to use their powers as they see fit in the same way that they would any other natural talent or cultivated skill.  They believe that people will, if free to do so, naturally gravitate to ways of improving their own lot in life via use of their meta-abilities.

Freedom from regulation and freedom from discrimination—these are the core tenets that the vast majority of the rank and file hold to.  A great many of them are laborers, blue collar types who just want to be able to better support themselves and their families.  Many others are those who suffered discrimination because of their quirks and want better for both themselves and their children.  Of course, the further back their connections go, the more likely they are to both be higher-ranked in the cult (with attendant greater resources) and to have grown up soaking in generations’ worth of resentment, groupthink, and radicalism.

Geten, a particularly virulent and single-minded MLA attack dog, has parsed the tenets to mean that people with strong, well-trained meta-abilities will naturally be able to use their powers to do more and raise their status in the MLA’s ideal society, and thus that those who can’t or don’t choose to will not be able to live lives that Geten personally thinks are worth living.  Likewise, Trumpet doesn’t fault Spinner only for his weak ability, but also for his anti-social tendencies.  Of course a politician who’s deeply invested in a narrative of people uniting to throw off their chains and better themselves would be disdainful of someone who locked himself in his bedroom for years and emerged only to violently lash out at society.  (Spinner’s right to call Trumpet a huge hypocrite on this, mind; terrorist cult members have no business lecturing other terrorists about the correct way to violently reform society.)

The MLA does have a problem with quirk supremacy, but it’s not quite the problem fandom thinks they do, and it’s certainly more nuanced than fandom thinks.[4]  Frankly, I could write a whole post dissecting this, but rather than analyzing the canon at length in a post intending to be about my fanon for a series of slice-of-life MLA fics, let me just lay out some issues I think the MLA have.  Note that these opinions may vary member to member, particularly as you work your way up the chain of command.

Many in the MLA believe that people with poor quirks are less capable of asserting their will and becoming whatever they want to be.  They are not, notably, alone in that that sentiment—we hear versions of it not only from villains like Trumpet and All for One, but from the paralleled parents of Midoriya Inko and Shimura Kotarou, the would-be hero Bakugou, and even the iconic hero paragon All Might.  While it’s not universal, My Hero Academia’s Japan is full of people who believe to some extent or another that people with weak or no quirks are inherently less capable of making their mark on the world.  The MLA is just more blatant about it than most.

The MLA are, as a group, not concerned about the fate of the quirkless.  My suspicion is that this is because they think quirklessness as a trait is on its way out—that the touted 20% of the world population that’s quirkless is hugely weighted towards the elderly, those who are from generations when quirklessness was more common.  Think about it: 20% is two out of every ten people.  Statistically speaking, that’s a huge portion!  You only have to look at Deku’s middle school classroom in Chapter 1—thirty kids, exactly one of whom is quirkless—to begin to suspect that there’s something a bit off with the 20% figure.

Further, the MLA follows Destro’s beliefs, and we know from Destro’s manifesto that he believed meta-abilities were growing stronger over time.  So to their mind, not only is quirklessness becoming a thing of the past, but so are weak quirks in general.  While their clear disdain for both is damning—and certainly discredits them as a group suited to decide how society should be structured!—please understand that, “We’re not very concerned with the rights of the quirkless because we think that there won’t be any such thing as quirkless people within a few more generations,” is not the same statement as, “We are A-OK with 20% of the world’s population being second-class citizens for the entire rest of human history,” and it is really not the same statement as, “People with no quirks, or bodies that can’t handle their quirks, need to be proactively removed from the gene pool and we are actively advocating for a systemic, organized culling.”

That said, their disdain, if blown out to society at large, would absolutely lead to discrimination and, undoubtedly, incidents of the same sort of violence that the MLA themselves were forged from.  That they haven’t thought or don’t care about this is one of many things that make them villains.

Further, there is an ugly strain within the MLA that still recognizes quirk marriages.  Because the MLA values freedom, they’re not as ubiquitous as you might think (at least if you think the MLA is a bunch of quirk supremacists with no other goals or values)—“freedom” does nominally include the freedom to marry who you want rather than let your own meta-ability trap you in a life you hate. However, it’s equally true that in a group that believes very strongly in the value of quirks, the power of quirks in the future, and the necessity of fighting a war to bring about that future, there will obviously be members who support the practice.  There are absolutely men and women who have been bullied and guilted by their families into loveless marriages for the sole purpose of producing children with powerful, desirable quirks.  How likely this is in any given location mostly depends on the commander’s opinion on it, though it’s a very rare one indeed who would go so far as discouraging it entirely.

———–      

THE HEARTS & MINDS PARTY

(Considerations on Japan’s political landscape.)

The current monolith of the Diet, the Liberal Democratic Party of Japan, managed to hold onto power for a full century after the Advent, but their grasp grew shakier and shakier over time.  Initial measures to bar meta-humans from voting proved increasingly unpopular as the percentage of the population with meta-abilities grew both larger and older.  People with easily-concealed powers gained office, sometimes being outed, sometimes not, but on the whole, decades of oppression and violence led to an ever-more-popular opinion that the LDP had mishandled the whole mess.  They lost their supermajority in the Diet when their longstanding alliance with the Komeito party splintered, regained it again for a few electoral cycles, lost it again when Komeito itself fractured, and so on, their once implacable numbers shrinking year by year.  Still, they managed to hold onto a coalition majority right up until Saneki Yuuichi was elected to the House of Representatives.

Saneki headed up a small party based almost entirely on the issue of meta-human basic rights.  Like many meta-humans of the period, he believed that the best way for meta-humans to attain those rights was to live like so-called “normal humans,” to show that meta-humans were just like everyone else. His party advanced the ideology that meta-humans should only use their powers to help others or better society, not to advance their own self-interest.  They pushed stringently for metas to be allowed equal recognition under the law as any Japanese citizen, but also supported measures such as requiring licenses for the use of meta-abilities and limiting those licenses to those actively engaged in assisting police.  Deeply tied to respectability politics, Saneki’s party contained virtually all emitters, a scant number of transformers, and no heteromorphs, who the party felt were an impediment to reaching their legislative goals, but whose particular needs could be brought back up at a later, more receptive time.

Saneki’s politics gained him many supporters, but also drove many into the arms of the Meta Liberation Army, who vocally loathed him and everything he stood for.  The confluence of public dissatisfaction with the spike in violence represented by the MLA, Saneki’s coalition gathering popular support among both metas and non-metas, and the rise of named, organized hate groups trying to roll back what few advances had been gained in meta-human rights finally spelled the end of the LDP’s majority.

The LDP falling apart prompted a scramble for power that would stretch on for nearly half a century. Old alliances whose only common ground had been opposing the LDP found themselves free to seek groups with more compatible goals.  Young single- or dual-issue parties leapt at the chance to address their issues with more fervor.  New parties sprung up across the country.  Not only meta-humans, but minority groups of all kinds saw new avenues to press for substantive positive changes that had been dead in the water under the LDP.  Voting numbers surged as they had not for decades.

The old, conservative elements of the Diet were not gone, of course—they remained a substantial powerhouse!—but no longer could they muster the undefeatable veto-proof numbers that they had once enjoyed.

Like everyone else, the remnants of the MLA saw opportunity in the new, ever-shifting status quo.  With the place of metas secured for the time being, there was no longer a need for metas to form coalitions in the Diet merely to get their basic needs addressed.  A single-issue party from its inception thirty years prior, Saneki Yuuichi’s party was fragmenting, unable to decide on a single direction now that their uniting issue had been resolved to their satisfaction.  In recognition of meta-humans reaching population parity, the MLA launched a project to begin seeding the ideals of Liberation at the highest levels yet—the Hearts & Minds Party.

Beginning as a local party in a prefecture in which the MLA had gained significant underground support, the HMP campaigned on a platform championing individual freedoms and a wide range of improvements to Japan’s battered and overworked social safety nets.  They made an effort to showcase diverse representation in their leadership and gave impassioned speeches promising to reach across party aisles in searching for nuanced solutions to the various difficulties facing the country.

It’s impossible to say exactly how large the Hearts & Minds Party is compared to the Meta Liberation Army, which is claimed by Re-Destro to have 116,000 action-ready warriors (the “warriors lying in wait, ready to rise to action” description presumably indicating that his count does not include uninducted children).

On the one hand, one can presume that everyone who’s a member of the MLA is voting for the HMP on every ticket they can, but not every member of the MLA—who induct combat-ready warriors as young as 16—is old enough to vote, and many probably live in districts or prefectures where the HMP has yet to establish a campaign-ready foothold. On the other hand, while the HMP certainly serves to funnel people towards the MLA, it doesn’t require membership—indeed, it’s far better for their goals for them not to do so.  Therefore, it’s also probable that the Hearts & Minds Party has many supporters who are not (yet) counted among the Liberation Army’s number.  Thus, for the purposes of ballparking estimates, I opted to simply suppose that the two areas lacking overlap (MLA members who can’t vote for the HMP and HMP supporters who aren’t members of the MLA) are relatively equal.

That established, we’re working with a party that has 116K voters/supporters/members.  The closest thing to that number that I could find numbers for is the Japanese Communist Party (JCP), which counted 300K members as of 2017.  Using their total membership compared to their representation in the Diet (as well as a willingness to viciously bastardize anything resembling reliable political math), I plugged in my estimate for the HMP’s membership and wound up with the Hearts & Minds Party holding four seats in the House of Representatives, five seats in the House of Councillors, and sixty-odd assembly members in various prefectural positions.

For some context to those numbers, the House of Representatives (more powerful, but more vulnerable to sudden electoral shifts) has 465 members, 233 of which are required for a majority, and 310 of which are required to override vetoes imposed by the House of Counsillors. The House of Counsillors (less powerful, but serving longer terms and unable to be dissolved for general elections like the House of Representatives can be) has 245 members, with 123 required for a majority.

As you can see, the HMP holding a handful of seats isn’t going to tilt the My Hero Academia world on its axis.  Still, it’s more seats than any number of real-life Japanese political parties hold, and right up until the one-two punch of Shigaraki taking over the MLA and Hawks outing Trumpet’s allegiances to the Hero Commission, the Hearts & Minds Party was well on-track to continue growing its power and influence.

———–      

TIMELINE

(For ease of calculation, most dates are rounded to the nearest five years.)

1980: A glowing baby is born in Qing Qing City, China, heralding the Advent of the Age of the Extraordinary.  For almost two decades, meta-abilities remain rare and poorly understood—incidents are widespread and show huge variance, so most people write them off as anomalies or hoaxes.  As the years go on, however, meta-abilities become more widespread, moving out of the realm of the odd headline that many people think is an elaborate hoax into an alarmed spotlight as it gradually becomes apparent that this is a thing that all humanity is undergoing.  Most major technological development pivots to trying to understand, undo, document or control this new phenomenon.

2030: The child who will become All for One is born.  By this time, society is breaking down into chaos. Across the globe, measures from outlawing all meta-ability use to internment are seen.  Eugenics laws are discussed or put in place.  Communities attempt to run out metas and, in response, groups of metas attempt to form their own communities.  Infanticide rates are rising alarmingly.

2060: Yotsubashi Chikara and Ujiko (original name unknown) are born.  Japan is in complete disarray, awash in mob violence, with organized groups of both metas and non-metas attacking victims indiscriminately.  Developing an ability can get you disowned.  Divisions among the meta minority are developing a noticeable strain of respectability politics rhetoric.

2065: AFO forces an ability on his younger brother, unintentionally creating One for All.  Chikara’s mother is murdered by an anti-meta mob for attempting to speak out in defense of the normalcy of her child’s ability.

2085-2090: Saneki Yuuichi becomes the first meta-human to attain a seat in the Diet. Despite nearly a century of violence, meta-humans are becoming a larger and larger percentage of the population, and the people of Japan are tired.  The prevailing sense is that it’s time to make peace; however, the peace that is being forged involves laws sharply restricting the use of meta-abilities for those who haven’t been formally licensed.  These restrictions see markedly mixed reactions from metas.  Chikara rallies the most vehement dissenters to create the Meta Liberation Army, calling himself Destro.              Disagreement over how to handle the MLA finally finishing the job of rattling the Diet free of the death-grip of the LDP.  Many years of fractious elections will follow as new coalitions form to try and seize majority power.

2095: Japan signs an international accord acknowledging the fundamental rights of meta-humans.  This gesture begins to splinter both internal support and public sympathy for the MLA.

2097: Destro is captured by police and their newly designated Quirk Unit.  Other surviving members of the MLA are hunted down or go into hiding.

2100: The term “Hero” is formally adopted, having been casually in use for some time.  A Hero is one who is licensed to use their power to fight quirk-based crime in accordance with local and federal laws, assisting the police when requested.  The Hero Commission is established as an agency with oversight in the licensing and regulation of Heros.              Destro dies in prison.  Though the matter is questioned, no proof of foul play is ever brought forward, and the death is ruled a suicide.

2110: Ujiko presents his paper on the Paranormal [5] Singularity Theory.  The paper suggests that the power of quirks is continuing to grow with each generation and will, in time, become more powerful than the human body can control.  His evidence is inconclusive, however, and his citation of some of Destro’s observations on the phenomenon becomes a particular sticking point.  In a country that is finally beginning to get its feet back under it, no one wants to see another widespread panic.  Ujiko is stripped of his position; having been living on campus at the time, he’s left functionally homeless and is approached by All for One not long after.

2120: The population of those with quirks and those without reaches parity in Japan. Seeing an opportunity, the MLA launches the Hearts & Minds Party as a local political party, intending to grow it over time.

(2125: Yagi Toshinori is born.)

2138: Yotsubashi Rikiya is born.

(2148: Debut of All Might.)

(2165: Shimura family tragedy.)

(2174: All Might “defeats” AFO.)

2175: Hanabata Koku is elected to the House of Representatives.  He’s not the youngest party leader in the Diet, but he’s close.

2180: The events of Deku’s freshman year at UA lead the MLA to turn their attention to the League of Villains.

———–      

STRAY FACTS

Why 1980/2180?—

It’s an even number for ease of calculation, triangulated between a few considerations.

Firstly, tasers are mentioned in the One for All dream, so the events of the dream (which themselves are happening far enough into the Advent that society’s had time to slide into all-out chaos) must post-date the invention of the taser, which was in 1993.

Secondly, Spider-Man’s silhouette is seen amongst the group of characters who represent the “fantasy” that became reality.  If we assume that those media properties existed in-universe (since the narration is delivered by Midoriya) and were assumed to be fantastical at the time, they must predate the Advent—Spider-Man is the newest of them and his first appearance was in 1962, his material being translated into Japanese by the 1970s.

Lastly, technological and societal development crashed to a halt with the Advent.  The world of My Hero Academia generally reflects a modern-ish Japan, so I wanted modern technology—and modern social reforms—to still feel modern to the characters.  Thus, the point at which society stopped developing needed to predate the Digital Revolution, which really began to hit its stride in the mid-80s.  Hence, 1980.

The opening period is, admittedly, fairly generous on my part, and does assume a certain amount of modern advances were probably underway, but then were lost, sidelined or rolled back as the chaos spread.  You could probably trim off twenty years by stepping up how quickly quirks begin to appear and spread, but the very beginning is the best window to do so.  I’d still peg the Advent at 1980 based on the calculations above (again, it has to fall somewhere between the mid-70s and 1993) but, for example, maybe All for One is from that first generation, and society only takes 30 years to reach the lowest point of its collapse instead of 80.

As to the 2180, the older characters introduce several requirements for the post-Advent timeline.  Ujiko was 50 at the time that society was beginning to stabilize, while AFO dates to its days of utmost chaos.  AFO also needs to be running on at least one anti-aging quirk prior to meeting Ujiko; if the only one he were running on was Ujiko’s own, then based on his appearance and the mechanics of Ujiko’s quirk, I’d peg AFO at merely 85, and he needs to be not only over 100, but far enough over 100 that he’s described that way rather than as “a century-old evil” or something to that effect.

Meanwhile, All Might can’t really be any younger than 50, and seven generations of OFA bearer predated him, even if they did all die relatively young.  Destro’s mother was killed in those early chaotic days, while Re-Destro (himself no spring chicken) is told as a child that the MLA has been in hiding for generations.  “Generations” implies at least two; I further suppose that Rikiya needs to be at least the original Chikara’s great-grandson for him to describe himself simply as Destro’s descendant, rather than use a more specific relationship term.  All of this points to a fairly lengthy stretch of time, much more than is glossed over by Midoriya’s series-opening narration.

AFO and the MLA—

I mention in the very first story of this series that the MLA’s contacts all go “mysteriously missing” after the capture of Destro.  While the police certainly did their own measure of work in tracking down the Liberation Army’s members and allies, there was another figure with a significant hand in the MLA’s downfall.

All for One, then in his early sixties, had watched the rise of the MLA in some interest.  On a personal level, he admired Yotsubashi’s charisma and resolve, and, of course, he wholly supported the free use of quirks (well, his own free use of quirks, anyway)!  On the other hand, All for One also sought to restore order to society, albeit order as he himself envisioned it.  While he was confident that there was no one who could stand up to him no matter whose ideals won out, Saneki Yuuichi’s way promised a more stable society, and bribable and/or blackmailable bureaucrats seemed easier to manipulate than ideal-driven zealots ready to give their lives for the cause.  Thus, AFO decided to help the police a bit behind the scenes, offering a few tip-offs and hints to guide their efforts to end the threat of the Liberation Army.

Of course, as long as Destro was alive, the cause of Liberation still had its focal point. And AFO was still a bit curious to meet this man, who’d inspired so very many loyal followers.  It was an easy thing to arrange.  An interesting man, and an interesting quirk.

Destro did commit suicide in prison.  A man who had always embraced his meta-ability for motivation, and whose ability transformed that motivation into power in turn, AFO stripped him of in the same moment. Isolation from other contact, separation from his lover, his friends and allies, and his cause, a gap in his psyche like no pain he’d ever experienced--all of these piled up on one another into a fatal despair.  After AFO’s visit, there was no need for anyone to arrange a convenient death for Destro.

(And if in later years, the monstrous Noumu, who are driven entirely by pre-programmed, single-minded resolve, are flint-skinned from head-to-toe, well—who would ever even think to connect those dots?)

The Mother of Quirks—

An interesting thing I observed from Re-Destro’s confrontation with Clone!Shigaraki is that, based on their exchange, it doesn’t seem to be common knowledge that the Mother of Quirks is the mother of the Meta Liberation Army’s leader?  Re-Destro’s apology for assuming Shigaraki wouldn’t recognize the story suggests that it’s a matter of fairly basic historical education, but he then goes on to explain her connection to Destro at some length—if that connection were taught at the same time her story was, surely he’d see no need to do this? Clone-a-raki’s response backs this up—unlike the general existence of the Mother of Quirks, which was such basic knowledge that he was insulted that Re-Destro thought he wouldn’t know about it, her connection to Destro was unknown to him.

Re-Destro describes the connection as “an inconvenient truth.”  This, in turn, suggests that the connection has been actively obscured.  The MLA’s place in history is taught; the originator of the term “quirk” is taught, but the two are not connected to each other. Kids in school aren’t taught that the very child whose mother was murdered for her words hated what his country was using those words, that message, to do.  It’s naked appropriation that continues to this day, and it’s no wonder that the MLA is furious about it.

The Quirk Unit—

An early term for the group that would, in relatively short order after their formation, officially be dubbed Heroes.  Composed of both meta-humans already on the police force and vigilantes willing to remit themselves to legal oversight, they fought quirk-based crime in many forms, from the common mugger to the terrorists of the MLA, and even former allies in vigilantism.  Well-regarded by history thanks to their efforts in reining in crime and disorder, but quite a controversial group in their early years.

MLA Age of Induction—

Being raised in the MLA means being raised with the goal of eventually being assigned a codename and tasked with supporting the Great Cause in whatever fashion your superiors think you best suited.  The minimum age for this is 16, though 18, being the age at which students graduate from high school, is more common.  At no point is there really a safe way to leave once you’re involved; they are, after all, a secret army.  There’s no aging out of the MLA—it’s a lifetime tour—but disability, injury or general decrepitude can get you assigned to work that generally won’t expect you to see open combat.  The Army is composed of a great many lifetime-of-service families, after all, which means they need teachers and caretakers; another option is dedicated work for the Hearts & Minds Party, who always have room for community organizers.

Liberated Districts—

Settlements that are at least 85% MLA-inducted.  At their largest, they’re small towns; rural villages are far more common.  Without exception, they’re isolated or out of the way.  Tend to have unusually good access to city services compared to similarly-sized settlements.  Deika was one of the largest districts the Army had, chosen for the Revival Celebration due to its combination of a sizable population and a particularly closed-off location.  The MLA knew they’d need many warriors to fight the League of Villains, but they also needed a site that was not merely remote, but that had controllable points of access.

It can take well over a decade to hit the 85% saturation mark in even small villages; Deika and the MLA’s handful of other full-fledged towns are the work of generations.  They begin by moving people into an area and setting up gatherings on some useful pretext or another, enthusiastically welcoming newcomers and very, very gradually indoctrinating people further into the ideology.  Financial support, an accepting environment for difficult quirks or those with patchy legal histories, the odd homeless shelter or food kitchen, a robust presence in the foster care network—the MLA is very, very good at making themselves a warm, sincere, reliable presence in peoples’ lives, a group that encourages everyone under their banner to be their best selves. They think everyone deserves that kind of support!

They are also willing to shed quite a lot of blood to make sure that everyone can get it.

On the Intersection of Disability and Quirk Suppression—

There are a few factors contributing to why Scarecrow can’t use his quirk to do things others would.  First, his quirk is the kind of off-putting that gets Gang Orca ranked third-most villainous-looking hero and leads Shoji to wear a mask because his face disturbs people.  So Scarecrow’s quirk is already the kind of visible that makes people look at him askance.  Compounding this, his prosthetics are obvious, visible to any old person, and people have a very ugly tendency towards bootstrap, “you can do it if you try” mentalities around people with disabilities.  These two factors mean that people who are disturbed by his creepy articulate bug legs would much prefer that he use his significantly less-creepy prosthetics, to the degree that they’re willing to suggest that he’s being lazy if he doesn’t.  They cite the quirk-use laws as a deflection tactic, but Scarecrow—whose pattern recognition functions just fine, thanks—is keenly aware of the underlying mindset.

Nimble is in much the same boat—she literally can’t talk without falling back on a visual representation of some kind (sign-language, a text-to-speech reader, etc), and why on earth shouldn’t she be able to use the fastest and most convenient one without people getting up her ass about it?

None of this is the kind of thing that would likely get either of them arrested (though Scarecrow’s creepy enough that the odds are higher for him, “villain quirk” bias being what it is), but the laws-as-written, nonetheless, are discriminatory, and that makes people justly angry.  Angry people are easier to radicalize, and the Liberation Army has been working that angle since their very inception.

Re-Destro and Trumpet’s College Days—

RD’s an Engineering major with a focus in Manufacturing; Trumpet’s in PoliSci.  They’re two grades apart, with Koku being the older.  Those two years of greater experience shift the power balance between them significantly when Rikiya arrives for his freshman year, facing a new place, a new workload, an entirely new rhythm to his life.  For the first time, Koku is not merely a friend in similar circumstances who is still—as they’re both reminded near-constantly—subordinate to Rikiya’s every word.  Rather, he’s a senpai, someone with specific experience in every aspect of this new stage of life—and someone who’s had two years to become more eloquent, more well-studied, more confident, more mature.

Removed from the immediate supervision of the First Families for the first time in his life, Rikiya allows himself to lean on Koku in ways he never would have back home. Koku, for his part, has had his responsibilities here impressed on him by the First Families at some length, and has spent his entire life being groomed to devote himself to his Grand Commander.  Having said Grand Commander looking to him with such glowing esteem in his eyes—well, there’s no denying that it’s pretty enticing.  The two of them enter a romantic relationship that will endure for several years until Rikiya gets his head back around the idea that Koku’s ability to say no to him is fundamentally compromised.

The Bindi Connection—

I had no reason to develop them any, and thus I don’t have names to assign, but it seems that Twice’s No. 3, the smiling old woman with the gingham dress and the rough-and-ready attitude to combat, and Geten’s No. 2, the short-haired woman whose face is being devoured by her out-of-control sweater neck, are related.  Note the bindi on both of them, as well as the similar hair color, particularly in the page introducing all the advisors.  Mutual connection to Dabi’s No. 3, the guy who got into a fight with a hole punch and lost, is uncertain but possible based on the confronting-the-heroes page spread in which Hole Punch dude’s hand lays familiarly on Grandma Bindi’s back while Big Sis Bindi turns partly towards him as if to whisper some sarcastic observation about how lame Cementoss’s ponytail is.

———–      

FOOTNOTES

1: Regarding codenames, the first generation of the MLA tended to have names that reflected their meta-ability in some way.  From the second generation on, at the behest of Destro’s son, the codenames have become less literal, and thus less revealing.

2: Viz renders the job tile “Executive Director,” but having checked the raw, the Japanese term, senmu, is associated with a fairly specific level of executive authority, and it’s lower than I would peg “Executive Director,” which to my ear sounds synonymous or slightly below Chief Executive Officer.  Executive Vice President is wikipedia’s translation; Google returns Senior Managing Director.  In any case, she’s near the top, but not at the top.

3: At least, he wasn’t prior to meeting Shigaraki.  Now he’s pretty much in favor of a very organized and coherent belief structure that can be summarized as, “Watch Shigaraki tear down the world ‘cause he’s beautiful and I love him,” and honestly, mood.

4: I’ll just come out and say it: fandom blew Geten’s words way out of proportion because a bunch of people got mad that he was being mean to Everyone’s Favorite Serial Killer Dabi.

5: An archaic term by this period.  Even “meta-human” saw more use in academic parlance, while the term “quirk” had become much more widespread among the general population since its official adoption during the period of legislation twenty years prior.

[yankeeclapdoctor]

Once again it is time for some 2011-2014 era Loki discourse because I have been confronted with.....um...a certain Hot Take, and I must respond publicly because I have been blocked from responding in DMs and I cannot just let this go because my brain is screaming. So here we go...uh...proceed at your own risk

cw for mentions of (fictional) g*nocide

First message: “For the record, Loki going insane actually does excuse him trying to destroy Jotunheim. It doesn’t JUSTIFY it, but it does EXCUSE it. Being unable to control/understand your actions excuses them, no matter how horrible they are. In the court of law, Loki would have been rehabilitated, not punished.”

Second message: “For the record, Loki going insane actually does excuse him trying to destroy Jotunheim. It doesn’t justify it, but it does excuse it (big difference). Being unable to control/understand your actions absolves you from blame, no matter how horrible they are or the consequences. Loki needed to be rehabilitated, not punished. Nothing can justify g*nocide. It is inherently wrong in and of itself. But he is excused by virtue of not having known any better at the time.”

For the record, I do not know this person who has messaged me and, as I say above the read more, I cannot respond to them privately both because they have restricted their message settings to only blogs they follow and also they seem to have blocked me after sending these messages.

let’s Get Into It, shall we!

Okay……so……….I might conditionally agree with you, if you were talking about Loki attacking Earth—when he does that, he is under the influence/control of Thanos and of the Mind Gem, and therefore he is not fully in control of his actions when he attacks New York, so I wouldn’t say he should be penalized as though he were.

What I’m getting from you saying there’s a “big difference” between an “excuse” and a ‘justification’ for someone’s actions is that there’s a difference between being able to point to a reason for someone’s actions versus saying that someone’s actions are correct. And yeah, of course there is. But also, again, just because there is a reason for someone’s actions, mental health related or otherwise, does not mean that the effect of their actions can/should be ignored, or that the person can be entirely absolved from blame unless they are under complete duress. If you’re referring to the difference between justification and excuse in law…..well if Loki were to be tried in a court of law on Earth for his crimes in Avengers, I guess he would have grounds for an automatism or duress defense because of the mind control, which would hopefully get him sent to a psych facility for rehabilitation instead of a straight up prison…but I don’t know how exactly the judicial system would factor in magic or how they could prove Thanos’ involvement when they didn’t know about him at the time and the only one who knew of him was Loki and he probably wouldn’t be considered a credible witness…and also he wasn’t tried on Earth and again I don’t know if they have psych facilities on Asgard and based on his hearing in Thor 2 I really don’t think their criminal law system is the same as it is on Earth. I certainly didn’t see a jury of his peers, just Odin being a dick.

But since you’re talking about Jotunheim, that’s a whole different situation/mental state he was in. Yes, his messed up emotional state is a reason for his actions, but I believe that he does know better, and even if he didn’t, “not knowing any better” Does Not erase the harm that someone’s actions cause (especially when they are as bad as g*nocide!). It may explain why the actions occurred, but the existence of an explanation really does not always justify complete absolution, and in Loki’s case with Jotunheim, I don’t think it does, because I don’t think there’s any evidence that he was ‘insane’ in a way that prevented him from understanding the gravity of or controlling his decisions, and the movie (through Thor) ultimately condemns the hateful ideology upon which his decision was based (that Frost Giants are monsters and deserve to die). I can call his behavior ‘insane’ or ‘unhinged’ or ‘mad’ (to borrow Thor’s term for it), but that doesn’t mean that I think he was truly mentally incapacitated. He’s a dramatic bitch and (in my interpretation) he had years of weird resentment and insecurities building up before Thor’s banishment and the adoption revelation happened to catalyze his wacky behavior in Thor 1.

In terms of real life human legal terms and systems (if those are even valid to apply here, which, for the record, I don’t think they are because this is a fantasy world with an entirely different and unknown legal system), I don’t think he falls under the requirements for an “excuse” defense. I don’t think he’s shown as ‘going insane’ to the point where he wasn’t able to control or understand his actions. There isn’t ever a moment in the movie like in Avengers when Thor is like “look around you. do you think this madness will end with your rule” and he looks genuinely startled and upset by his actions for a second—that moment in Avengers makes it clear to me that he’s being influenced/controlled, and also that he’s capable of recognizing the harm he causes when confronted with it. But in Thor 1, he stands by his choices until the end, and even after that, he doesn’t express remorse or a sense of newfound understanding that what he has done is wrong or was out of his control, even when he is told by Thor and Odin (and Frigga, in Thor 2) that what he has done is wrong. His anger is driving him, not ‘insanity.’ He knew the meaning of his choice to destroy Jotunheim with the Bifrost: it would “destroy that race of monsters” (his words) that he wants nothing to do with, and it would “prove to [Odin] that [he] is a worthy son.” When Thor says to him, “you can’t kill an entire race,” Loki responds, “why not?” and reminds Thor that he was ready to kill them all earlier, and that they have been taught their entire lives that they are monsters and not deserving of mercy or respect. He knows that it is g*nocide, and he chooses to do it because he sees it as the justifiable and correct solution to his own and to Asgard’s problems, and because it is a way to express his anger—here, he is working based on hateful ideology he was taught in conjunction with his own grief and anger. His feelings of betrayal and self-hatred and anger lead him to make this decision, not any demonstrable mental disorder; in desperately trying to retake control of his life and show to himself and to his family that he belongs and is “worthy,” he makes a choice, does not express remorse for it afterwards, and at no point is shown to be acting out of character/not in control of himself and his actions. Thus, he should be blamed and take responsibility for the damage he caused. A dramatic anger and grief response would not qualify as an excuse or justification for a crime, nor does it necessarily indicate mental illness…definitely not on Earth, and I highly doubt on Asgard (I don’t think that it would make sense to apply any diagnosis based on human psychological science to his mental state, seeing as he’s not human. Or Asgardian. I don’t know the state of psychological science on Jotunheim, but if you do know, feel free to enlighten me).

I can see and understand his reasoning/explanation/the “excuse” behind the action, but that doesn’t mean that I can (and the movie doesn’t) endorse it or say that it can be entirely “excused,” because as you say, “nothing can justify g*nocide.” Again, since he’s a fictional alien, I don’t think it’s relevant or productive to actually apply our labels or frameworks of thinking about mental illness to him. In the real human world, his emotional meltdown in Thor 1 might be grounds to say that he is mentally ill, but because he never expresses remorse for trying to destroy Jotunheim afterwards, that to me emphasizes that the choice was not entirely a result of his messed up mental/emotional state, but a combination of that and a logical (albeit morally terrible) line of thinking. The moment at the beginning of Thor 2 when he has his hearing about attacking Earth solidifies this interpretation even more to me, because he makes it clear that his actions (which in this case were influenced by Thanos/the Mind Gem) were a result of what he’s been told his entire life: “that [he] was born to be a king.” While he isn’t referring to his attempt to destroy Jotunheim there, it does indicate that he holds the belief on his own, even when not mind controlled, that atrocious actions can be excused because of his interpretation of his socialization. I agree that if he were not in control or didn’t fully grasp the meaning and magnitude of his actions that he could be ‘excused’ a bit, but I disagree that it would ‘absolve’ him entirely. It doesn’t change the fact that the realm was almost obliterated. Nothing he ever says/does/emotes communicates that he didn’t know or didn’t realize what he was doing when he tried to destroy Jotunheim, he is only upset over having failed (“I could have done it, Father. I could have done it. For you. For all of us” he says); he never expresses remorse for his attempt to destroy it, and this does not seem to be because he is prevented from seeing that what he did is morally wrong—again, instead, he seems to think that his morally reprehensible actions can be justified by his motivations. His judgement was determined by anger, but being emotionally driven doesn’t mean one is ‘insane.’ Again, I agree that he “needed to be rehabilitated,” because he is a very very unstable person who needs to learn how to process his feelings better, but we can also see throughout all of the movies that he has trouble accepting and admitting the consequences of his bad choices, even though he tends to know when his actions are bad (either because he just knows and is being a bastard and/or because Thor tells him). That’s one of his major personality flaws. His first instinct is usually to get defensive and angry and try to explain away his actions because of his trauma, rather than empathize and try to acknowledge and apologize for what he has done. He needs to understand that he can’t just make horrific choices and then “excuse” them afterwards, no matter how distressed or traumatized he was at the time—especially when the choice is g*nocide that he was not mind controlled into attempting. Therapy could absolutely do this for him, and probably would be most effective even without a formal diagnosis of anything, because it could help him understand how his personality affects and is responsible for a lot of bad behaviors. But a dickish and highly emotional personality does not equal ‘insanity.’

In summation: he’s not insane in Thor 1. He’s acting based on discernible emotionally and ideologically informed logic, even though that logic is morally reprehensible. Also I think it is dangerous to say that if he were insane something like g*nocide could be excused just because it can be explained by supposed insanity—it does not erase that it happened, and that it is terrible, and should be atoned for. Maybe in the real life human American legal system he could go for some sort of excuse defense, but I don’t think it would hold up in court. Just because he would very much benefit from therapy does not mean that he went ‘insane’ and that such ‘insanity’ drove him to attempt g*nocide; his distressed mental/emotional state does mean that he should receive rehabilitating treatment, but a need for rehabilitation does not mean that he is also not deserving of blame for the consequences of his actions, and for making the decision to commit an atrocity in the first place.

In conclusion: I love Loki very very much. I do not blame him for his space meth-fueled actions in Avengers (2012). I DO blame him for choosing to try to commit g*nocide when he could have chosen not to do so in Thor (2011). And yet I still love him, because I am capable of both loving a fictional character AND recognizing that he is a bit of a war criminal.

[detroitbydark]

Crossed Connections: Part VI

Pairing: Tech x Togruta!Reader, Wrecker/OC

Characters: Echo, Ik'aad, Tech

Warnings: None

Summary: Sometimes awkward is cute and sometimes it's just not

Previous Parts and Extended Universe can be found here

------

Y/N glances over at the ARC Trooper perched carefully at the edge of the examination table. He sits stock still, skin as pale as Durosian marble. It is only the near silent whir of the drives in his right arm that let her know he’s more than a statue. Even then, the Techno Union’s wizardry with his prosthetic is so good that she doubts a human ear would pick it up. 

She wants to spit every time someone mentions Wat Tambor’s name.  The socket arm and it’s connections are a marvel of Techno Union know how but it rips at her heart. They’d created such a device, a prosthetic that could offer quality of life to those in need,  only to use it to further progress the Separatist agenda. 

“You’re quiet today” she notes leaning her hip against the counter behind her as she takes him in. Echo is pale still, unnaturally so, but his cheeks aren’t nearly as sallow or as sunken as when he’d first arrived on base. His eyes are brighter, if not guarded. He’s stopped twitching when she touches him.  

Being away from Skako Minor was doing well for him but he needed time and that wasn’t something the GAR was likely to allow. She’d heard whispers of him joining a mission with Clone Force 99 very soon.

 On Coruscant she’d not been immune to talk of clone rights and she was quick to agree with those who spoke out for them. It made her uncomfortable that all her work was only to prepare a newly liberated prisoner of war to be forced right back into the field. Wrecker had tried to explain that this was the life they were, quite literally,  made for. The life they trained for from creation. It didn’t sit right still.

“They refer to you as Ik’aad.”

She cocks her head at the question.  It’s the first thing Echo has said since arriving in her part of the bay for his daily once over.  They’ve been doing this song and dance for nearly a week now. Like any good clone, the healing process was progressing remarkably quick and his injuries were already fading.  Granted those were ones Y/N could see. 

He was sober, quiet, speaking little most days and then without end on others, as if the words had built up during his time in stasis and they had to spill out or risk causing him to implode with the weight of them. 

While he hadn’t offered her many smiles he also didn’t seem to dislike her company. She could work with that. 

His observation though is curious. Of course, she knew who they were. For better or worse she’d earned more than a few looks as information about the Bad Batch had trickled through the base's ranks, and with it her name attached to the unit.

She spent more than enough time with Wrecker for a very specific set of rumors to begin circulating. The thought of the whispers she’d heard the other day in the mess made her cheeks burn. It hadn’t done much for her socially. Her new roommate seemed immune to them though and that was a comfort she was glad to take. The ARC trooper didn’t seem to mind much either, though he had his own bits of gossip that followed him. 

“I suppose they do”

Y/N glances at the bleak reminders of his time under corporate control. The cold, alloy of Techno Union metal sticking out starkly against Echo’s skin.

The neural access ports, unfortunately, had been woven so tightly into the neural pathways of the Arc Troopers brain that there was no way to seperate the two. The ones that had connected his lungs and diaphragm while in stasis were no better. They were to be permanent fixtures. While Echo had joked just the day before that some of his vode would be jealous of the look she had a feeling he was not fond of the modifications.

Rex had been a frequent visitor during his first few days in the medbay, almost constant in his devotion to his vod. Surprisingly, so had some of her other charges. Hunter had stopped by a handful of times and both Wrecker and Crosshair had frequently sat with him to distract while she worked. Today was actually the first day he’d shown up for his treatment and not had an escort. The ARC Trooper had left an impression amongst the Bad Batch and only time would tell if that was a good thing or not. 

Y/N moves slowly to start his vitals. 2-1B, the medical droid was kept on standby when Echo was under her care. She’d discovered early on that too much time under the droids watchful eye and its inability to take things at the troopers pace had a tendency to exacerbate the former POWs anxiety. Y/N was ok working without Too-bee’s assistance and taking a more languid pace if it made her patient comfortable.

“Do you know what it means?”

Y/N glances up at the trooper. “I’ve never thought about it really” she says, turning to gather supplies to clean and redress the few deeper lacerations the ARC trooper still had, places where there had not been enough skin to pull together to suture. 

She makes a small gesture with her fingers and Echo begins peeling his shirt off. It gets hung on the edge of his prosthetic and he struggles for a moment, frustration evident before he takes a deep breath and slowly uncouples it from the alloy. He folds the black shirt neatly and places it atop his armor as Y/N finishes laying out supplies on her work table and rolls it next to his perch. Slipping on gloves, she begins peeling spent bacta patches off, holding the skin taught as she does to ease the tug on his skin. “So, are you going to leave me in suspense or are you going to tell me?”

Echo likes the way she smiles at him. It makes what she does easier. He tries not to flinch as she removes the last patch. 

The engineers, the doctors, Tambor those who’d performed his modifications had looked at him like anything other than a science experiment, a tool, a profit margin. Y/N sees him as a person. She accommodates him. She’s learned quickly his ins and outs and she doesn’t push. She treats him like an individual. And she smiles. She smiles so bright and full that she lights the room, like star shine on a dark night. Her presence soothed him. She made him feel like he had choices and the power to make them.

“Baby. They call you Baby” the first time he’d heard the words slip from Wrecker’s mouth he’d done a double take.  Then he’d heard it from Hunter, and finally, Crosshair. It was a term of endearment he hadn’t heard from a clone before. The way they treated her was soft, even Crosshair who was rough and callous to the other troopers, the Regs, seemed to thaw, if only slightly,  for the little Togruta.

Y/N shrugs, “Hmm?” She hums plopping onto a stool and spinning around a few times before she rolls in front of him and offers him a shining smile, pearly incisiors peeking out. “That’s cute. You gonna call me baby too?” She teases.

Echo feels his cheeks heating. “Could I? Would that be... strange?”

Y/N shrugs again, “I don’t think so” she says motioning toward his bare chest. She takes a piece of bacta soaked gauze and waits for his nod before she begins cleansing the minor lacs and scrapes. Her touch is light as she moves. Echo’s eyes drift shut. Touch was still… touch was something novel and when he was given a bit of softness he was going to soak up every bit he could.

“Ik’aad” he tests the name out. He’s spoken so little Mando’a since his capture that it feels foreign on his tongue, not unpleasant, more like a long forgotten friend he needed to become reacquainted with.

When his eyes open back he’s greeted by an impish grin. “See that’s not so bad.”

He’s not sure if she is talking about the wound care or the nickname. He nods anyway as she pats the areas dry and applies fresh bacta patches, fewer than the day before.

“You know what I’ve got to do now?” She questions softly. 

This he did know and he feels his shoulders tense at the thought. The metal ports implanted along his skull and back had been placed prior to going into stasis. They allowed the Techno Union access to his memory’s as well as a means to keep his respiratory system functional. The skin surrounding the ports had healed but had never had a chance to callous or grow accustomed to the push and pull that movement caused. His freedom and sudden increase in activity had caused sores to develop around the ports themselves, the skin raw and chaffing. The doctors had all been in agreement that with time the skin would toughen and the sores would heal but in the interim it left him uncomfortable and required daily tending.

Y/N- Ik’aad, he corrects mentally, rolls her stool slowly around the exam table, letting her feet flop in front of her and pull herself around. He’s tense but he can’t help the weak tug at the corner of his mouth at her antics, she looks up and catches his eye with a knowing grin.

She stands, forgetting the stool in lieu of a more upright position. “Why do you think they call me Ik’aad?” She asks conversationally, trying out the word for herself,  as one hand falls to his shoulder Her movements allow him to telegraph where here next touch would land.  She did it the same way each time. Top to bottom. Left to right. It bred a sense of familiarity and, on the worst days, gave him points of reference for how long it would take. In the beginning she’d talked him through each step of the process until he’d asked her to stop. Since then she’d tried to distract him. They both knew what she was doing but neither found fault in it so she continued her chit chat and he continued to listen. 

Y/N begins moving a fresh piece of bacta moistened gauze around one port, cleaning the crust and debris that clung to the wound away. Echo tries to focus on her question and not the sting of the antiseptic as the gauze washes away the dried flakes of drainage.

“You’re small” he starts “like, you-could-fit-in-my-pocket-and-go-on-missions tiny”

Y/N giggles as she continues to work, “is that so?”

Echo shrugs, “you’re  kind of adorable too-“

“Not you too! You sound like Wrecker.” she growls playfully, “If you start telling me you want to pinch my cheeks I swear, Echo...” she threatens without any real threat.

“Nothing like that. You’re like- like- “ he looks for a word. He knows there’s one that fits but it eludes him. “I think you just have a way about you that makes them feel...” he shrugs.

“Well if you don’t know what they’re thinking what do you think? How do I make you feel?” It’s an honest question, born of genuine curiosity. Like the clones in the Bad Batch, he kept coming back to see her when any medic, clone or civvie, could do what she was doing.

“You make me feel warm.” He says without hesitation. “For so long everything was so cold, distant and you’re-“ he snaps his fingers and Y/N startles fingers pressing into the flesh where she was beginning to work at the next row of ports. “Vod’ika” he says firmly flinching at the press.

“Translation Echo?”

“Uhh, little sibling. Sister or brother. It’s interchangeable.” He explains. A smile splits his face knowing he’s finally placed the feeling she drew out of him and what he assumed the other as well-

“Y/N?” The question is followed by a sharp knock to the wall nearest the thick curtain that separates the room from the rest of the med bay. 

Echo and Y/N turn toward the familiar voice. Y/N gives him a questioning look and he nods.

“Come on in Tech? Is everything ok?” Y/N places a hand to Echo’s bare shoulder as she tosses the used gauze in a nearby bin. The clone watches curiously as Tech’s helmet, visor flipped up,  flicks ever so slightly from Y/N to where her hand rested than back again.

“I- I didn’t know you were busy. Everything’s fine.” He clarifies quickly. Even modulated, his voice is just a touch higher than Echo is used to. “I just wanted to see- I just thought I’d swing by”

“We were just finishing up” she turns back to Echo and motions to his shirt. “You good to gear back up”. He pulls the blacks on silently as he watches the two.

Tech doesn’t call the medic Ik’aad. It’s the first time Echo’s noticed. He also realizes Tech is rarely around when she is. Echo watches the engineer take a step into the room and again his narrowed eyes flick back to where Echo is seated.

“What can I do for you?” She questions peeling away gloves and turning toward the sink to wash her hands.   Echo notices for the first time something different in the tone of her voice, almost shy.

“Wrecker said” he hesitates “you were getting ready for your FAS cert test?  I came across a study guide that might help, if you want to use it that is?” He asks holding a pocket drive between gloved fingers.

Though he’s the one supposed to be here, Echo suddenly feels as if he’s intruding on something. It’s like watching one of the shinies back in the day at 79’s approach a woman for the first time. It’s a dance with no music and Tech has two left feet. 

Y/N reaches up and toys with the end of a lek as she turns around. “That’s really thoughtful of you.”

Y/N is more quiet, far less verbose than Echo has become accustomed to.

“It really would be helpful. Maybe-“ she pauses. Glancing down, she seems to steal herself before her eyes travel back back up to the other clone “maybe you could help me study?”

The ARC trooper finds himself silently rooting for the other clone. She’d baited the hook and thrown it out there.  The way Tech’s eyes widen behind his goggles and the near panic that flares up is not lost on Echo.

“I’m- I’m really busy actually” Tech spits out quickly. 

Echo cringes as they both seem to deflate. He wonders how neither sees it in the other.

“Oh, ok. That’s- that’s really thoughtful of you.” Color flares in the togrutas cheeks “Again. I already said that didn’t I?” Her hip bumps against her tray table as she moves and she makes a small disgruntled noise as bacta splashes across her tac pants. “Kriff” she curses silently as she looks down and wipes uselessly at the spreading patch of wetness.

There’s towels on a rack along the wall and Echo watches Tech look at them but when he doesn’t move Echo does.

“Here, Ik’aad.” He grabs two and hands her one. Her face is flushed when she looks up. Embarrassed. She gives him a weak smile.

She presses the towel against the wetness soaking into her pants. “Have I told you you’re my favorite patient?”

“No. But I’m glad to hear it” 

Behind him he can hear Tech shift from foot to foot. Echo had given him a chance to come to her aide and he’d dropped the ball. When he glances back he catches Tech’s narrowed eyes. Was that…? No, it couldn’t be-. 

Echo can see the look in the other clones eyes and it isn’t particularly generous. He arches a brow back as Tech drops his visor.

“I’m going to leave this here for you, Y/N” Tech announces looking past Echo and setting the pocket drive down. 

Y/N waves him off. Avoiding eye contact as she balls the towel up and throws it in the hamper.

“Thanks. I’m sure it’ll come in handy.” She says puffing out a frustrated breath through pursed lips. Her attention goes back to Echo. 

“So now that my uniform is soaked, do you have plans for lunch?”

The ARC trooper shrugs, “I hadn’t planned anything. I’ve got to get some range time scheduled in later but I’m free for a bit.”

“Good. I’ve just gotta run by my room and change and then you can take me to the mess. You can keep telling me about how amazing I am.” She teases weakly. Her eyes widen as she looks past him and notices Tech still standing in the doorway.

“You can come too if you want but I understand if you’re busy”

He hesitates for half a second and Echo is sure he’s going to take her up on the offer. He can see it in the way he leans forward, the way his left hand clenches and unclenches that he wants to. 

“Maybe another time?”

Y/N barely manages a halfhearted “yeah, sounds good” before the engineer is turning on his heels and making his escape.

“I don’t think he likes me much,” she notes quietly after he’s gone.

Taglist: @skdubbs @pastelbunny1501 @my-own-oracle @underworldqueen13​ @obiorbenkenobi​ @adritozier @dafodddil @daniellajocelyn

[stellocchia]

I just wanted to analize the conversation between Foolish and Tommy for a bit because I’m still thinking about it

I did technically intend for this to be a short little thing with just a couple of my thoughts on it but... brevity is NOT my strong suit!

So I put everything under the cut and obviously it’s all about the characters.

You can find the conversation here at 02:52:55 and onwards

What is extremely interesting about this whole conversation is that Foolish is mostly unaware of what happened prior to him joining and about most things that happened afterwards, meaning he has as detached and objective of an opinion as you can get. For example Foolish doesn’t know almost anything about L’Manburg, as it was destroyed before he joined and he also didn’t know that Tommy went in the prison to kill Dream (which is why he asks how that went when Tommy mentions it). That paired together with the fact that Foolish has proven to be quite a good listener is probably the reason why Tommy felt so comfortable opening up with him.

“No what do you mean you fought Dream?” “Well you know... you’ve seen Wilbur haven’t you?” “No, no actually” (as I said, completely unaware, though he did seem a bit worried at the idea of Tommy fighting Dream)

“Ghostbur’s uhm... Ghostbur’s not here anymore” “Oh did he pack up? Move out? Got bored? He seems like a free spirit” “Yeah he moved out to this little train station far far away. There’s a little train station, you know? Right near the world border. There’s a little train station” “Oh that’s cool! I wanna see that sometimes" (...) “There’s a little train station out near the world border and Ghostbur went but he left Friend” “He left Friend?!” “But we’ll get Friend to him soon, ‘cause then they’ll all be happy”

Tommy’s way of explaining things to others is always so fascinating to me. It’s childish and charged with emotions, but I don’t mean this negatively, because it gets the point across better then any grand and eloquent speaches really could in my opinion. How attached he was to Ghostbur is also extremely sweet and this is simply his way of dealing with grief: trying to find a practical solution (he was suggested to Tubbo to wash up and now his solution is bringing Friend to Ghostbur), trying to find something he can do to make things better.

“How much can you take Foolish? Blood! Blood! Does that upset you?” (it’s nice seeing Tommy being mindful of other people’s triggers since not many people are mindful with his)

“All I know is I’m proving that bitch [Wilbur] wrong! Because he told me- he told me I’m weak” (another example that the manipulation did work to some extent)

“I don’t feel comfortable talking about that [his revival] with you Foolish if I’m honest” “No, fair enough!” (and Foolish repaying the favour right after)

“I don’t really se how this solves the problem” “Well it doesn’t ‘solve’ the problem, it’s preventing the problem Foolish, alright? Have you noticed that all the problems come they don’t get solved, do they? Ends up with some madman screaming ‘I solved it’ alright? And now- and then look at him, alright, now he’s taken away everyone’s favourite man: Ghostbur, alright? Problems don’t really get solved in this server”

So, for context Foolish was commenting on how gathering stone didn’t seem like a good solution for Tommy to prove to Wilbur that he wasn’t weak, but Tommy’s answer is about more then that. There isn’t much he can do at the moment, not knowing what Wilbur is planning, so the only thing he CAN do for now is what he was asked and, hopefully, prove himself to Wilbur so that he may be able to stop Wilbur from committing atrocities before he starts. Also the “madman” he’s talking about could be Dream (the one who thinks he is a God and actually killed Ghostbur) as well as Sam (the one who thought the prison was gonna be a solution to the Dream problem and who let Ghostbur die) or it could be Wilbur (who seems so self assured about being right on everything and is now the one who replaced Ghostbur), any of them fits. It is also true that, so far, every problem that seemed to have been “solved” turned out to be far from it every single time. That said, of course it should not be Tommy’s responsability to get Wilbur on the “right path” nor should he bear sole responsability for avoiding disaster once more, but, by now, he’s convinced that that’s not the truth, probably because he sees himself as far more sacrificable then those around him.

“Well, how do we go about changing that [problems not getting solved]?” “That’s what I’m doing” “By gathering stone?” “No what I’m doing my friend is preventing the problem before it gets out of hand like it did before, alright?” (again, it’s all about prevention now through getting Wilburs trust and maybe steering him in the correct path)

“L’manburg! This was mine and Wilbur’s na- it was Wilbur’s nation! It was Wilbur’s which makes it all the more heart wrenching, alright?” (referring to his talk with Wilbur about L’Manburg, which does make it more heart wrenching)

“Now we were okay- I was okay when we were banished and I knew that we’d get it back and we’d talk about it, right? As you said: ‘peace is the option’. But here’s the thing Foolish, Wilbur didn’t wanna do anymore talking, he’d given up with that, because some people aren’t strong enough, alright, some people stop talking. You know the phrase ‘treat others how you wanna be treated’ Foolish? That’s a very important phrase (...) Wilbur disregarded that rule. He decided that he wanted to be treated poorly so he’d treat everyone else poorly” “Why do you think that?” “Honestly sometimes I don’t really know myself”

So a very interesting thing that emerged from this conversation is that Tommy has a much better understanding of Wilbur then most people originally assumed and he is possibly the only person (in universe) who has picked up on the fact that all of Wilburs “villain speaches” and behaviours were nothing more then him treating others like he thought he himself deserved to be treated, like sh*t. It’s also interesting that Tommy relates the concept of strenght here once again both with the ability to stay peaceful and, this time, also the ability to communicate properly with those you care about (probably because this are both things he himself lacked when he considered himself to be at his worst, meaning in exile and later with Techno). It is also to be noted though that, while Tommy is undoubtedly the one person who understand Wilbur best, he is still not aware of how bad his spiral had gotten because Wilbur never communicated it.

“Now Wilbur, he was a good man- he IS a good man, deep inside him, alright?” “So you’re saying that there’s still redemption for him?” “Well he’s been a good man deep inside him, but he’s been a bad guy for a very very long time” (Short introduction to Tommy’s concept of “good” or “bad” in season 3. He has gotten a lot more nuanced over time realizing that the world isn’t simply black or white)

“You believe in second chances?” “No I don’t. I don’t really believe- I- that’s not a thing for me Foolish, is just that... *sigh* I believe that everyone has got a little bit of good in them. And I know that Wilbur had good in him” (A little bit more about his concept of morality, this time explaining that he doesn’t really believe in giving people a quantifiable number of “chances”, but more so in the fact that everyone has capacity for good, which also implies that everyone has capacity for bad, but he chooses to hang onto the first one for those he cares about)

“Now I just think Wilbur’s being a bad guy, and that’s okay! We’re all bad guys, everyone messes up. You learn the most from your mistakes” (he also moved on from the fear of becoming a “bad guy” now it seems by noticing that your mistakes don’t define you as a person and that they are opportunities to better yourself)

“He’s made sooo many mistakes, so many that have hurt so many people, but, what this is gonna be about isn’t giving him a second chance, isn’t giving him a third chance, is not about chances! Foolish, it’s about not giving up on the people you care about”

And this is the culmination of all the previous point. The idea of chances implies that you’re gonna give up at some point if the person doesn’t changes (which is a healthy thing to do, by the way, sometimes it’s better to cut people off when they aren’t good for you) and Tommy doesn’t believe in that. He believes that everyone has some good in them and perhaps, if you stick by them long enough, that good may shine threough. Now this is a nice concept in theory, but in reality if people wanna change it has to start from themselves (wether that be changing an opinion or needing to reach out for help) and it’s especially not a good idea to stick by someone if they are harmful to you. I’m sure no one likes Wilbur being in this example, so think what would happen if Tommy applied the same mentality to, say, Dream, someone who has hurt him more then anyone else and who considers him less then human (more like his propriety) and who’s most probably never gonna change since he never regretted anything he did: would you still think that the idea of “never give up on people if you care about them” would be a positive one? This sadly is an example of excessive selflessness on Tommy’s part that ends up being self-destructive.

“You consider yourself to be the ‘good guy’ or the ‘bad guy’?” “That really depends who you ask, doesn’t it? You know? You ask Dream he’s say I’m- he’d say I’m his little- I’m his little play- his little toy that he plays with, you know, it doesn’t- Foolish honestly I used to consider myself the ‘good guy’, the fucking second in command going around going ‘yeah let’s do this!’ but I- recently- this past- this past like six months or so Foolish everything got so much harder then it was before, but because before it was us fighting the bad guys and everything was so clear, it was all so clear! But it’s not been clear for so long”

A few things to unpack here: Tommy once again demonstrating quite a bit of awareness that he didn’t always have about Dream and how he now views him (this has been a gradual and difficult realization for him and it is still clearly hard for him to talk about it) and then explaining that things simply got more complicated then they once were (which is an important thing to keep in mind, because Wilbur missed all of that, he missed the world becoming shades of gray) and that he really doesn’t believe in ‘bad guys’ or ‘good guys’ any longer.

“It seems like you’ve been the hero, you’ve been the viallian, the conquerer, the saviour and, even now, I still have no idea of what you exactly are” “It’s up to you to decide, isn’t it?”

Now this can be interpreted in a few different ways. It could be that Tommy has simply given up in tring to define himself since others keep insisting in putting him into small little boxes that don’t fit him. It could be that he simply refuses the labels and leaves it up to others to decide what he is in relation to them. Or it could be something else entirely and I’m leaving it up to you to decide.

“Unlike you I don’t really have a choice. I have to try and be who I want to be, ‘cause if I don’t... very bad things are gonna happen on this server. Now Wilbur’s back Foolish I can’t- quite frankly no one can risk that, so I don’t really have a choice”

And this is how it ends on a quite hopeless note actually. By this point the responsability to solve problems has been put on his shoulders so many times that he doesn’t really think he has a choice any longer and he also recognizes Wilbur as a genuine threat to the server as a whole if left alone.