#“why yes I will loop between my Ne and my Fe and I will have a blast doing it” -Clopin probably | Explore Tumblr posts and blogs

mbti-notes · 3 years ago

Text

Anon wrote: Hello, ENTP here. I fear I'm in a Fe loop and maybe a Si grip. I entered college and made friends with an ISFP and an INFJ. We're getting pretty close and we share a lot of ideas, but I can't trust them with myself. I'm afraid that once I show any sign of disagreeing with them, they will turn their back on me.

I know I'm being influenced by past experiences. I had friends that didn't respect my boundaries and expected me to be there for them all the time. For example, I'm not a touchy person, I dislike touching a lot. Those friends knew that because I explicitly stated that I hate being touched, yet at any given moment they would. I also couldn't talk about my problems or anything related to myself, they would interrupt me and talk only about themselves. I don't want to play victim here, they had their own issues, I don't blame them and I understand now that true friendship is different from whatever that was. I'm telling you this because it's important to know where this fear comes from.

Anyway, the things is that I don't know how I'm supposed to act around my new friends. I'm walking a line between trying to soften me up for the sake of their feelings and speaking about what I think, with the risk of hurting them. But I'm doing it all wrong. I'm starting to mirror their behavior and suppressing my opinions for their approval. Yet, I can't come up with a new strategy and can't help but being tied up to the past. I don't want to screw this up, they're different people and they don't deserve whatever was left of me. I fear I will become needy and repeat the same mistakes, ending up in self isolation. I'm not living up my full potential and I know it. How can I overcome this?

-------------------

Yes, you've got some Fe and Si problems. In a nutshell, you're behaving like a cheap imitation ISFJ. Trying to be something you're not is the road to self-destruction. Your past experience makes you believe that you have to twist yourself into some unrecognizable form in order to keep your friends. But when you take these kinds of shortcuts, you just end up sabotaging your intended goal. How can a friendship be healthy when people never get to see and know the real you? How can you be healthy when you constantly neglect your own needs and desires? How can you be open, trusting, and giving when you are always in fear of what might happen?

Why take a shortcut that does so much harm and actually leads you away from your intended goal? Because you lack the SKILLS to do otherwise, and this is related to poor Ti development. Ti development means building a proper understanding of how things work, as well as learning the skills that are necessary to navigate systems competently (in this case, how socializing works and how to socialize successfully). Immature Ti is very limited in its knowledge because it is far too small in its scope, basically only capable of seeing cause and effects at the most superficial of levels. For instance: "If I keep my mouth shut, I won't say the wrong thing and get rejected by my friends". This superficiality leads to adopting ineffective strategies.

It's good to be open and honest about your needs and desires. It's good to be respectful and considerate with other people's needs and desires. So, how do these two things meet up in a relationship? Is there really nothing at all in between the extremes of aggressively imposing your needs on others versus passively sitting in neglect of your own needs? The middle ground is found in assertiveness. In ENTPs, this involves exercising Ne adaptability and Ti strategic planning based on the facts.

Being assertive means taking the initiative to put yourself out there AND being responsive to what happens after you do. It's true that maybe not everyone can handle what you put out, but it's better to know than to wonder forever, isn't it? Wondering forever leads to you staying in relationships that aren't healthy for you. Once you know the facts, you can make a well-informed decision about what your next steps should be. Not every relationship will work out as you hope, and that should be okay, because there will always be more opportunities to come. This is what healthy Ne should tell you.

Socializing is an art, not a science, which implies that you have to be nimble and make sure that your expectations are realistic. There is no way to speak such that you never offend anyone. However, there is a way to speak your mind responsibly, and there is a way to be flexible and adjust your approach as necessary to mitigate negative reactions. To accomplish this, you need to do some skill building (for the sake of Ne+Ti development). The relationship related skills that you lack include:

optimism: seeing positive possibilities (not just negative ones) and believing that there will always be another opportunity (in the event that this particular one doesn't pan out)

presence: approaching new situations without past baggage

trust: giving people the benefit of the doubt

courage: the willingness to face up to truthful feedback

confidence: believing that you can handle whatever comes because you are committed to learning from your mistakes

assertiveness: being open and honest about yourself

communication: using respectful language to express opinions

conflict resolution: de-escalating tense situations

emotional intelligence: understanding how to navigate feelings and emotions that result from social interaction

impartial critical judgment: knowing when to persist (because there is potential for a better relationship) versus when to cut your losses (because the relationship is a lost cause)

Some of these topics have come up before, do a search. Also check out the book recs on the resources page. Yes, there is some pain in learning difficult skills, making mistakes, and changing the way you do things. But confronting your deficiencies is the road to realizing your potential. In the bigger picture, the pain of growth is less painful than living with loneliness or living in constant fear of abandonment.

#entp #entp relationships #fe loop #si grip #relationships #communication #assertiveness #trust #ask

34 notes · View notes

pretendwiseguysofficial · 4 years ago

Text

MBTI: Kylo Ren / Ben Solo (Star Wars) - ESFP, 3w4

Written by Ryan (archive post from January 22, 2019) I hate to burst your bubble, Tumblr, but……..Kylo Ren is not an INFP. Nor is he an INFJ. He’s an ESFP, and quite literally. *SPOILERS for TLJ*

It would be common to think Kylo is an NF, given his general “feeling” demeanor. However I think a lot of NF types tend to think that Feeling characters are one of their own, instead of looking at SF types. Why are SF types overlooked? I think it’s because the internet is slightly slanted towards N-type, big-picture intellectuals while the S-types slave away at work and enjoying their comfortable reality. Yes, I’m talking about the old, dreaded “S-types are dumb” addage that the internet MBTI community accidentally promulgates. Just because someone is an “N” does not mean they are any smarter or wiser than an S-type. At all. Earnest Hemingway, for example (an ESTP, at that), wrote many insightful novels on the human condition. That being, said, I digress. Here we arrive at our penchant whiny-crybaby with depth to himself: Kylo Ren, or Ben Solo, originally. And he’s oh so close to being an xNFP, internet. You were *kind of* close. Ultimately, he’s an ESFP. Kylo Ren reminds me a lot of Jesse Pinkman from Breaking Bad (another ESFP). Both have explosive outbursts (Se-Te), both can lead but immaturely because their emotions get the best of them (Fi-Ni), and both are a student of a harsh xNTJ mentor whom they secretly despise (more or less). To explain, as an ESFP, Fi-Ni is deadly, in the fact that it can often be emotionally immature (along with its cousin, Ti-Ni, which on the flipside can cause serious cynicism). Kylo Ren, with secondary Fi, feels like everyone else is violating his own personal code of morality, including his father Han Solo whom he’d hated for years for being emotionally detached (due to, ironically his very own Ti-Ni loop and inferior Fe as an ISTP). With a quick flicker, the Fi automatically places someone in the right or in the wrong, almost like Fe in a sense, but the difference is, it consults the person’s internal value personally before judging the outward environment. Less so than the unhealthy xNFP (who often borders on cynicism with its Ne-Te loop), the unhealthy xSFP is less empathetic on average. Make one mistake and you’re across the threshold of accepted in their eyes. It’s ironically more of a “door slam” than the internet-coined “INFJ door slam.” The difference between those two though is, the xSFP will “door slam” anyone at any level of personal friendship/trust, whereas the INFJ will most likely not cut off ties with someone they’ve known pretty well for a while. Kylo Ren though, seemingly thinks Rey is dead to him in The Last Jedi after she leaves the throne room, having rejecting his offer.

“So much emotional material. Time to make some of that sweet, sickly-pure Midwest emo.” But when Kylo Ren really gets going, that’s when you know sparks are about to fly. Through a heavily unhealthy tertiary Te, he doesn’t just bark orders. He screams them from the bottom of his lungs, and very loudly at that fact too. And it’s pretty spontaneous, and on the spot, with no regard for anyone or having thought anything through. This, I would call his Se-Te loop (primary and tertiary functions of the ESFP). Se is primarily on-the-spot and spontaneous. Through primary Se, it’s no wonder Kylo Ren likes to go in the field and do the dirty work himself that Snoke wants him to do. And through primary Se, it’s also no wonder that he sees an immediate possibility in wanting to train Rey right on the spot. But how is he not an xNFP? It’s because he doesn’t care about the bigger picture that much, unlike Luke (INFP), Yoda (INFJ), or Snoke (ENTJ). The bigger picture (Ni) is just a tool to further his actual personal goals of galactic peace (in his twisted little eyes) so he and everyone else (also in his twisted little eyes) can live in a sense of peace, day-to-day and in the moment, presumably. This is displayed perfectly in his speech to Rey in the throne room during The Last Jedi.

“Let the past die. Kill it, if you have to. That’s the only way to become what you are meant to be.”

Everything about that speech signifies a preference for Se over Si. Ni/Si obsess over past details (Si) and future speculations (Ni), whereas Se/Ne are more about the moment and the immediate future. Sound familiar? That’s a YOLO speech, my friends, delivered by none other than Kylo Ren. You know what they say……SP’s (artisans) love to party! Meanwhile, General Hux can’t get over the fact of how much of an inexperienced, spoiled brat that Ren is (versus his own clearly inflated, intellectual ego), due to his emotional outbursts, and inability to dish out a proper use of smartly directed, nuanced Te (the primary function of Hux’s type, which is ESTJ). Instead, Ren’s Fi overtakes the Te and results in stupid leadership decisions that might get blamed on Hux himself instead of Ren by Snoke.

“I know hibachi. Just try me, Luke!” Now, ReyLo…….I’m honestly not crazy about it (I think it would be kinda corny and cliched at this point, from a screenwriting perspective). But, have at it, Tumblr!

#MBTI #mbti personality types #mbti personalities #mbti funny #star wars mbti #Star Wars #The Last Jedi #The Force Awakens #the rise of skywalker #sequel trilogy #kylo ren #reylo #ben solo #esfp #myers-briggs

1 note · View note

mbtiofwhys · 5 years ago

Text

MBTI and quarantine

How INFJ mod and ENFP mod are dealing with self distancing

Disclaimer: quarantine for us began roughly around the end of February, and we’re writing this at the end of April, so it’s been two whole months by now.

How have we been doing up until now?

INFJ mod: the first month went well, and with “well” I mean “bad”. As an introvert, social distancing shouldn’t affect me too much, right? Well, this is true and I suppose it’s a benefit I’ve experimented in the last weeks. It somehow helps me easing emotional pain and stress and this is undoubtedly an introvert perk. At the same time I’m a J. I need a certain amount of structure and order to plan ahead and organize my nearest future. I had a couple of exams during the first month of quarantine and it was stressful to deal with them in an emergency situation with lots of unforseen problems. So, how have I been doing up until now? I must admit that an unexpected emergency like this affected my emotional well-being, but i’m trying to stay positive and learn to adapt and take advantage of quarantine!

ENFP mod: the first weeks had been absolute hell, let me tell you. I lost my routine, I lost my friends, I couldn’t even go out for a walk and every plan I’d made crumbled. Staying home felt like prison, and not having a set routine anymore affected my mental order and productivity because I was no longer able to correctly prioritize things. However, I think being N and being P helped me getting used to quarantine while at the same time being able to at least pursue my main interests and hobbies (I play games, I write, I read, and so on). I’m doing far better now, between discord calls with friends and group projects for uni, I keep in touch with people, while the increased free time allows my sparkling Ne-Fi to focus more on personal projects, like this blog.

Working/studying at home

INFJ mod: As I stated before, I’m a student. My university reacted well to the emergency and found countermeasures to compromise between a lack of lectures and the regular exams. Now I’m attending online lessons and the situation is far less stressful than it was until a month ago. I don’t have to underestimate this lack of pressure, because in a context where every day feels the same it’s easy to slack off and to lose track of time. From a more concrete standpoint I must admit how comfortable and suitable online lessons are, since i don’t have to spend hours commuting and I can save time.

ENFP mod: I study in the advertising field, so my lessons are more like labs and peer reviews than proper lectures - also, there’s a lot of group work. Quarantine affected all this very badly to put things lightly, and although I appreciate the effort my university put in providing online classes and reviews, things aren’t absolutely the same as before, and this is lowering my motivation overall. I also used to work part time in events and malls during weekends, so obviously I lost that one, too - what a life.

Alone time vs imposed isolation

INFJ mod: Quarantine should be like heaven for an introvert, right? Here is the fact: I can stay at home for a week or even more without social interaction, but it will always be my choice to recharge my social batteries or to enjoy alone time. This is an entirely different situation. Imposed isolation feels exactly like what it is: a necessary imposition that I didn’t choose. So, even if I need alone time as an introvert, I really miss my friends and the simple things we can do like laughing together, talking about our lives and passions, seeing them smile or telling a joke, sharing emotions. Because as an INFJ my auxiliary Fe just NEEDS to share emotions, thoughts, experiences, fears and dreams with trusted friends. As a Fe user, I’m still managing to find healthy ways to express my feelings, and although quarantine is an unusual situation and there are more constraints, I can still stay in touch with my friend and try to use Fe in a positive way.

ENFP mod: People call us ENFPs ‘the most introverted of the extroverts’ and I can see why but truth is, the E is there and you can’t change that. Not attending classes is hard, and I miss even the smallest things of being outside - like listening to music while commuting or walking in the street and generally… feel the outer world? And even if I, too, need alone time sometimes, it’s different when it’s forced. But I got used to it in the end, so it’s not that bad anymore. Lots of reading, writing and playing games - thank God P5R came out at the end of March. I’m managing by sharing opinions and experiences with my friends - we can’t discuss how Makoto Niijima is the absolute best waifu of the P5 female cast in person, but we can do that via chat with fanworks.

Social distancing: real interaction vs digital interaction

INFJ mod: there is a huge difference between real and digital interaction. If we talk about how internet allows us to communicate and work or study at home, digital interactions surely are helpful and I’m really thankful to live in an era where I can stay in contact with my friends and even see them. At the same time, as a Fe user I find real interaction irreplaceable and from a more irrational and emotional standpoint I can’t compare the two. That being said, I really value digital interaction as substitute of real ones. It’ll always be welcomed, be it to study or to stay in touch with friends. I also must admit how digital interactions are an interesting compromise between alone and social time, a win-win for an introverted Fe user like me.

ENFP mod: I tend to be very touchy when it comes to the people I love so yeah, digital interaction isn’t the same thing. At the same time, none of my closest friends live in my city, and we often need to organize things a month prior to fit everyone schedule, so I’m at least used to not seeing them everyday. I also truly miss my classmates, with whom I used to go out after lessons and have fun. This isn’t obviously possible with Skype calls - and don’t get me started on how project works are harder to deliver like this.

Routine

INFJ mod: Maybe you’ll find it odd to read this from a J, but routines can really stress me out and I need small variation to my daily activities to relieve the fatigue. During this self imposed isolation I’m finding harder than usual to escape from routines.Yes, as a J I need structure and order to an extent. Yes, as a J I need time to adapt to new unexpected situations. What you may not know is that I also need ways to break free from strict and repetitive tasks. In my case, routines need to be a compromise between being mentally reassured by the presence of a certain amount of order and predictability and my aversion for repetitive tasks. Order and structure are subordinated to my desire for freedom. Freedom to create in an environment where I have time and space to envision what I want and how to do it, with my pace.

ENFP mod: I really struggled and I’m still struggling with routine. I don’t like routine per se, but it’s an external factor that gives structure to my life and helps me make the most of my free time while not losing track of my duties. Uni classes played the bigger role in this, and now that they’re online, the temptation of slacking off is really difficult to ignore. I keep my calendar updated and I make sure to be present and focused when needed, but I discovered I’m not well fit for smart working. To me, home is the place where I relax, rest and maybe study, but it certainly isn’t the place where I work. This conflict is what is giving me a hard time focusing on school projects, because if I’m home, the default mode is having fun. Also, I don’t have a sleep schedule anymore. I try my best every night, every night I get rejected.

Dealing with the inferior function

INFJ mod: I’m still working on my inferior Se and quarantine isn’t helping. As the inferior function, it usually takes me a while to even realize how much I’m falling into a Se grip or simply how much I’m not aware of Se. Self isolation amplifies those aspects and makes even harder to become conscious of unhealthy Se manifestations. Quarantine hasn’t stopped me to find a positive outlook in this situation and to learn from mistakes. At first I began to take a more concrete approach in daily life with simple actions. I live in a small town and I have green areas near my house, so I’m lucky enough to be able to spend some time in the nature and to experience it through the five senses. I’m also trying to become more aware of Se by being more present. This week I’m taking action and breaking vicious cycles of overthinking and self-doubt. Self isolation doesn’t allow me to experience life fully, so I’m taking advantage of the situation and I’m focusing those energies in concrete and meaningful actions, like writing on this blog or working on personal project involving creative writing.

ENFP mod: inferior Si isn’t giving me a particularly hard time, surprisingly. I’ve experienced Si grip and I know what that means to me, but luckily that isn’t an issue now. I sometimes do things that require a more focused and detail-oriented approach: styling wigs for cosplay, trying on new make-ups, baking or cooking, observing what happens out of the window to write it down. They’re not “Si activities” by definition, but they are all things that require concentration, calm, methodical approach and that cannot be rushed - on contrary, sometimes I need to start from scratches and observe my mistakes in order to improve. These are all small things that help my Si stay present and not freaking out overthinking the past, brooding in regrets or yelling at me because I’m not living a structured life at the moment.

The risk of loops and grips

INFJ mod: this is partly tied to what I wrote in the section above: this unexpected emergency and the resulting self isolation produced stress and negative emotions. As an INFJ, my first reaction is to jump in the future and visualize possible scenarios. In this difficult times, I need to take a step back from my negative “what ifs” and to stay positive by building a better future for myself and others day by day, through simple and concrete action. Otherwise I only risk to slip into Se grips or Ni-Ti loops. As I stated before I’m already working on Se: it’s not easy, but I’m at least trying. Another piece of the puzzle is my auxiliary Fe:proper auxiliary function development is essential to avoid loops. As an INFJ, self isolation prevents me from reaching out to my friends as much as I desire, at the same time we can stay in touch through digital interactions and they are surely helping me relieving stress and preventing loops.

ENFP mod: while the Si part is ok, I still seem to have problems with NeTe loop. I had some rough ten days in mid-March because I was so focused on the million projects I had to finish and how that was stressing me out that I practically lived for nothing else. I managed to stop that before it got worse by speaking with my colleagues and asking to slow down the pace, so that I could have some free time to spend without feeling guilty or unproductive. But I still need to be cautious about the loop.

Trying to use all the four functions (and other healthy coping mechanisms)

INFJ mod: ok, it’s time to sum up what I wrote in the last three sections. From an mbti perspective, I’m trying to find a balance between self reflection (Ni) and concrete actions (Se). Staying in the present, taking full responsibility for my actions, approaching life through simple and steady actions are all steps I follow every day to shift my locus of control to a more internal position. There are obviously setbacks and some days are far worse than others, but I’m trying to stay positive and find hope. Fe helps me to reach other people which is invaluable but sadly, as an introvert, doesn’t come naturally to me. It’s an healthy way to alleviate or completely avoid loops and to keep my heart warm. Ti, when not involved in a loop, allows me to give structure to what I find meaningful and to organize my thoughts. Ti is basically the backbone of what I envision through Ni.

ENFP mod: although the first times were rough, I feel I managed to find a balance along the way - with some setback from time to time. My Ne is constantly active in brainstormings for uni and discussing fictional works with friends. I must check on what my Fi needs because I tend to endure stress way more than I should do, so every now and then I must ask myself if I’m fine, if I need to stop or if I truly, absolutely like what I’m working on and, if the answer is no, if it’s possible to discuss it with my project group. Te is very active (even too much, sometimes) and it’s the core of me managing school, blog and personal projects, often writing things down on a schedule in order to keep my mind clear and ordered. I may help my Si more by really trying to re-establish a routine, but honestly the P approach helped me very much in this months of uncertainty, so I think I’ll keep going on like this as long as I’m fine.

Thank you for reading this far! - the mods

#mbti #mbti of whys #infj #enfp #Psychological Types #Personality Theory #personality type #quarantine #self distancing #mental health #blogging #type blogging

45 notes · View notes

funkymbtifiction · 5 years ago

Text

IDK who I am?

Ok so this is kind of a whole ass mess, I started off with a question that would make it a useful read for everyone and not a waste of time, but it ended up being a bit of a personal advice question so I hope that’s ok.

What would cause unhealthiness in a type? Most of the time, i feel like i’m a healthy ENTP, but multiple arguments with my ESFJ (or ESTJ?) mom have caused me to seriously doubt myself in many ways over the years. I read that an unhealthy ENTP can be argumentative, unwilling to drop arguments, etc. These are all things my mom tells me I do, along with not taking responsibility and making excuses. I’m 18 now and we don’t argue that much but we did a lot when I was around 13-15 and kind of, ya know, going through it as teenagers do. And since my mom has basically always used these same digs at me, I’ve assumed that maybe that’s the reason that it really hurts whenever those same digs are brought up now, and basically I have a lot of self doubt and am insecure about being an immature version of my type (because that would mean that i’ve been in the wrong in so many instances in my life if everything my mom says about me is true, and i think that sentence in itself proves my mom right in that i don’t like taking accountability.) As I’m typing this, I’m wondering if maybe that fear of being an unhealthy version of my type or admitting my faults could be related to enneagram ?? Anyways, I know that nobody’s perfect and can definitely appear even worse especially in conflict, I just sometimes wonder if i’m unhealthy or a completely different type altogether. That’s another thing, I’m always trying to find an answer to things, but have a hard time settling on just one. This could be another reason for my self-doubt. I guess my question, after that exhausting story, is WHY? I go back and forth between caring or not caring about personality type, but I’m in a particular stage right now where i care and really just wanna know why i am the way i am (i’m in a bit of desperate state of mind rn lol.) I don’t know if i gave enough info for you to answer this, but what causes me to fear failure so much? Does it have to do with being raised by an ESxJ? Or is it related to enneagram? Or something else altogether? Also, am i even an entp?? you’d probably need to know more about me, but from the way I wrote this, could you give me anything? I’m asking for so much right now, I’d honestly be annoyed at me. But I’ve been so unsure about so many things lately and I just want one thing in my life I can be at least a little more sure about.

I’m sorry you are in a place of feeling like you aren’t sure who you are; if it helps, most people who embark on MBTI journeys face that, sooner or later. And it often precedes a period of self-understanding that helps you find your type, because you start focusing on how you respond to things and how you get things done, rather than what others are telling you about yourself, and linking that to specific functions.

So much hyper-focus on what your mom says about you either indicates you are a high feeler (FJ seems more reasonable than FP at this point, since it’s not about defending self from the outside world, but wondering if what others say about you is true; but if you are sure of Ne-dom, I’d look into ENFP also) or in a Fe-loop. EFJs often mistype as ETPs at first, because they don’t realize how much they lack a specific sense of self, because their entire identity is built on how others perceive, relate to, and speak to them. If this has been a persistent concern for as long as you can remember, consider EFJ (most ETPs at your age care way less what others think, and way more about how they can ‘use’ them to get what they want, since Fe is just a tool for them and not a place of ‘being’).

If you are an ENTP, you sound as if you are in a Fe-related loop, excessively ruminating on others’ external views of you and causing you to wonder if you are really the irresponsible jerk they tell you that you are. To break this loop, you need to get back into Ti and return to building inner frameworks of logical understanding and consistency. Your natural, healthy tendency will be to notice flaws in arguments, belief systems, and logical inconsistencies, and point them out to yourself and others. You should be learning ‘how things work,’ and not worrying so much ‘how others are reacting to me.’

To gain a better understanding of oneself, you need to put your mother’s criticisms into perspective. Is she the sort of person who finds something harsh and critical to say about everyone, all the time? Or is it just you? What is the objective truth in her digs? Can you come up with specific examples of you doing the things she is accusing you of, or is it just generalization on both your part?

Immature (and at 18, you can’t be anything else, cognitively) ETPs are prone to not taking personal responsibility for themselves and making excuses about it, yes. Ti can rationalize, argue, avoid, and shift responsibility away from self (a natural behavior of unhealthy Fe) rather than simply admit, “What I did was wrong, and I’m sorry.” Arguing, for an ETP, is like breathing – they are so good at it, and so self-assured of thinking up an excuse for everything they do in order to justify their “what I want” based thinking, they forget that their “fun banter” is actually seen as “aggressive behavior” from feeling types. (Sherlock is a great example of what I am talking about.)

If you think your mom has a point, and you can come up with times when you did avoid taking personal responsibility, you have a choice – to work on next time refusing to give an excuse, humbling yourself and admitting you didn’t do what you were supposed to do, or you were selfish and ate the last bag of chips in the house, or whatever else she “gets on you” for. You can also start taking “adult initiative” and doing “mature” things around the house, to show her you are taking responsibility for your stuff, your chores, your bills, etc. The only way to convince an ESJ that you are a mature adult is to consistently act like one and show them you are being responsible with your decisions. Part of being a mature adult, regardless of type, is admitting when you are wrong and taking responsibility for the problems/pain you cause.

If she is criticizing / nitpicking needlessly, analyze her and think about her reasons why she might be doing this, or feels the need to bring others down, or is being “hard” on you in particular. There are many factors that go into people’s behaviors. Do you remind her of someone she used to know, who went the wrong way in life, and is she associating your behaviors with that person’s downward path? High Si’s are prone to instant sensory comparisons of that nature. SJs are also highly responsible people, very driven, who have a specific idea of “how the world works,” and how YOU will have to be, to succeed in it. (IE, 9/5 job, be responsible, buy car insurance, save for retirement, take care of your family, etc). This is how and why they clash with the “when I see it, I’ll know I want to do it, and do it for awhile, and then find something else to do” fly-by-the-seat-of-their-pants EP types.

With parents, it’s also important to remember their bias. Their opinion of you is just their opinion. What matters more out in the world is what your boss, your coworkers, and other people who have a direct financial impact on you as an adult in the workforce think of you. Your parents have watched you grow up. Seen all the good and bad things. Things that do not matter at all in the workforce, and that nobody knows about, outside the family. Things that do not have to ‘define you’ as an adult. EJ parents can also have a lot of trouble transitioning from being “parent” to “friend” – she is used to being your “mom.” So, prove her wrong. What can you do to show her you’re an adult?

You might also be an Enneagram 9 or 6 (both, Tritype-wise, is likely) which is messing with your ability to have a concrete sense of self.

Once you’re in college, your functions will show clearer. Heavy school work / an environment where you need to please peers and teachers will bring out lower functional development.

- ENFP Mod

#question

21 notes · View notes

drewinator23 · 5 years ago

Text

FE3H MBTI [Dimitri — ISFJ]

lol so. it looks like a lot of people are subscribing to the idea that dimitri is an ENFJ, in contrast to edelgard, who is supposedly an ENTJ. i believe that misses the point of these characters — and their dynamic — almost entirely, especially in dimitri’s case. while i will say i think edelgard is an INTJ, at least that isn’t too far off from ENTJ. the cognitive difference between ISFJ and ENFJ though...oh boy, where do i start.

the whole dimitri/edelgard conflict isn’t so much a clash between Fe and Te as it is a clash between Si and Ni — with dimitri, of course, representing the former. Fe vs Te does come into play a little (ISFJ’s auxiliary Fe vs INTJ’s auxiliary Te), but i honestly think the main focus of their clash is the past vs future dynamic typical of Si/Ni conflict.

ISFP seems to be a popular choice for dimitri too, but tbh i think a lot of people are mistaking his Si for Fi. i just want to say, right now, that this man...does not have Fi. lol. not in his main functions anyway (yes i will be getting into shadow functions, and cognitive loops, and all that good stuff, so if that’s not your cup of tea then here’s your warning!) ...but yeah let’s get into it.

Dominant Si

“I must never forget that day. I must never allow their deaths to be forgotten.”

dimitri has a very strong connection to the past. and this doesn’t just apply to his past, but to the concept of the past in general. in stark contrast to edelgard, dimitri vehemently believes in “preserving what deserves to be preserved,” which is an important factor in why his methods are far less radical than hers. he believes it’s possible to improve the system currently in place without tearing it from the ground up the way edelgard does. he places a lot more focus on honoring the fallen, on reminiscing about days gone by, and on respecting tradition in general. and this isn’t to say he’s a dense fuck. dimitri is very much capable of criticizing tradition where it’s due, and we see him do this on multiple occasions. it’s just that he has a lot more appreciation for the positive aspects of tradition/“the past” which edelgard seems to ignore completely. where edelgard wishes her “worthless dreams of the past” would go away, dimitri legit admits to relying on his headaches/nightmares of the past as reminders because he is genuinely afraid to forget the faces of those he “let die,” along with those he killed. he believes forgetting their faces would be an insult to their memory. he talks about his history with edelgard far more than she talks about her history with him. he becomes furious when edelgard’s forces attack the holy tomb and “desecrate the dead.” i think you guys get where i’m going with this. while it’s true that a substantial amount of dimitri’s connection to the past is unhealthy, that’s largely due to the trauma he suffers, along with the cognitive imbalance stemming from his Si-Ti loop. obsessing over the past the way dimitri does is far more indicative of an unhealthy Si user than it is of shadow Si, which is more likely to just abandon the past altogether...or uh, “trample the past underfoot” (looking at you, hegemon edelgard).

“I owe you, just as I owe the spirits of those I let die.”

second point — duty. (i’m guessing this is the point a lot of people confuse for Fi. dimtiri’s pretty preachy, yeah, but not all talk about justice is inherently rooted in Fi. more on that later though.) this guy literally constructs his entire life around the idea of fulfilling his duty, be it his duty to his father, his duty to dedue’s people, his duty to his kingdom, etc. he constantly talks about his need to fulfill these duties, and pretty much all the effort he puts into anything is driven by this. even his earlier, more light-hearted supports tend to carry a running theme of him making promises (which he takes almost comedically seriously), encouraging his classmates to be responsible, creating debts to be repaid, and so on. the only reason he even goes to the academy in the first place is, by his own admission, to fulfill what he perceives as his duty as the Sole Survivor of the Tragedy of Duscur™. obsessive revenge is a fucked up conception of duty, sure, but it transforms into something healthier by the end of the story while remaining very distinctly Si. his duty to ghosts becomes his duty to the living — to the people in his kingdom who need him now. essentially, he develops a more constructive attitude toward duty that helps both him and the people he constantly feels he “owes.” my boi snaps out of his Si-Ti loop and becomes a bro again once dat aux Fe and inf Ne come back to balance shit out, y’know what i’m saying? anyway speaking of aux Fe,

Auxiliary Fe

“This victory is the result of everyone’s hard work. Thank you, my friends.”

academy phase dimitri (and i guess uh...post-post-timeskip dimitri) is just about the nicest guy ever. he can be stiff and awkward to the point of being comically serious at times, sure (thanks dominant Si), but he’s generally very polite and agreeable. he’s conscious of the atmosphere in his conversations and always makes an effort to keep things comfortable for everyone involved. tbh he could make do with less of the whole constantly-falling-over-himself-apologizing thing, and it would be kinda cool if “sorry” didn’t make up over 90% of his dialogue, but i digress. regret is dimitri’s middle name so it kinda makes sense for it to permeate even his most mundane interactions. ANYWAY my point is — dimitri’s always trying to make sure everyone gets along and he generally prioritizes harmony over being fully honest about his own feelings, which strikes me as a lot more Fe than Fi. a simple but hopefully effective example of this is his support with flayn where he eats her awful fucking food and tells her it’s delicious even though he can’t taste it. he later admits to her that he was only saying what he thought she’d want to hear, which is like...peak Fe my dudes. a good chunk of his support and even main story dialogue involves him trying to smooth things over, prevent conflict, let people know they did a good job, and so on. and this isn’t just with respect to the other blue lions, but to the other house leaders as well. a lot of the praise he dishes out commends hard work and effort (thanks dominant Si), but his focus is also largely on teamwork and cooperation.

“I saved someone—saved you. That and that alone has always been my crutch.”

now on to the darker side of...not-so-healthy Fe users. dimitri openly admits to dedue that saving him gave him a reason to live, that it makes him think it was worthwhile that someone “like [him]” survived. and this savior complex doesn’t just apply to his relationship with dedue, but to his behavior and decisions in general. it’s exacerbated by the sense of genuine responsibility and duty he attaches to everything (thanks dominant Si), and it sparks up in many different ways. he admits that he feels like it’s his responsibility to help the orphans at the monastery, since he lost his family like they did. he tells byleth he wants to become like rodrigue, whom he describes as “someone who can reach out and save a lost soul.” he apologizes to byleth for not being able to save jeralt (?? BRUH.) he begs byleth to tell him how he can “save” the ghosts of his loved ones, even though they’re...you know. dead. i think this prob comes from his endless regret that he couldn’t actually stop anyone from dying in the tragedy, so he’s just obsessed with saving everyone he can now. in any case, dimitri feels the pain of loss in war very, very acutely, which is why he freaks the fuck out in remire. he later admits the flames in remire reminded him of the flames in duscur, which flung him into the same rage he associates with what happened in duscur, even though he had no particular connection to the villagers in remire. he absorbs the suffering of people around him like a sponge and surprise surprise it breaks his mind. eventually his Fe gets overloaded af and shuts down (hello Si-Ti loop), but even unhinged dimitri shows an occasional connection to others’ feelings — endearingly so when he pats a random orphan’s head, and eerily so when he sympathizes with fleche’s bloodlust and allows her to join the party because of it.

Tertiary Ti

“He’s dead. There goes our chance to gain more information.”

dimitri’s introverted realm is one of Si and Ti. he wants to reconcile his understanding of what happened in the past with a logical, substantial explanation, and he works tirelessly to find this explanation. this becomes increasingly apparent when he actually spends time alone — when he isn’t in the company of others, dimitri is far more research-oriented than he is overtly sentimental. he is interested in learning the facts of his circumstances, and he spends hours in the library looking for answers, trying to find out for himself what really happened. he is skeptical of the generally accepted “truth” that duscur itself is to blame, and instead believes that the blame foisted on it is meant to cover up something far more underhanded. of course, he is right about this, and he conducts as much research as he can to get to the bottom of the event. he spends hours in the library, late into the night. he reads about his uncle, lord arundel, and immediately suspects his involvement because the church’s records of his donations abruptly stop right before the tragedy. dimitri questions the man himself about this during their brief encounter pre-timeskip, though it (predictably) doesn’t really lead anywhere. he tries this again post-timeskip, but arundel dies before dimitri can pry too much out of him, which the latter bitterly laments.

“That is merely the logic of the living. It’s meaningless.”

much like dimitri’s Si, his Ti becomes warped once he enters his Si-Ti loop — feeding into a harsh, twisted, self-deprecating sort of logic that only reinforces itself and ignores other viewpoints (thanks to Fe and Ne shutting down). he becomes uncharacteristically blunt and critical, and the colder, more cynical view of the world we see glimpses of pre-timeskip becomes far more pronounced. in his mind, it doesn’t make sense for the living to move on in hopes of appeasing the dead. turning a blind eye to the dead is blasphemous, and anyone who believes that the dead would want the living to do so is merely adopting “the logic of the living” — a delusion to make themselves feel better. this belief likely helps him rationalize his own desire for revenge, and inability to let go of his past, and so the Si-Ti loop reinforces itself. to reiterate though, dimitri’s Ti is incredibly helpful and constructive when he isn’t loopy (ahahah. get it.) but anyway yeah, in short, his analytical process is typically far more introverted than the sensitive, emotion-focused approach he maintains externally. also, his attention to detail and refusal to accept things at face value are more subtle, covert elements of his personality, but they are definitely there. it’s not as pronounced as claude’s auxiliary Ti, sure, but tertiary Ti ain’t a force to be reckoned with either.

Inferior Ne

“Lineage, race, faith, ideologies... If we could just accept each other and make mutual concessions, one step at a time... Perhaps... Who knows if that’s even possible.”

again, this is one of claude’s functions but more baby. take upside down man’s dominant Ne and make it a bit smoller, more scared, and quicker to shut down. inferior Ne is brilliant, but unfortunately the fourth function tends to be one of insecurity. dimitri aspires to be open-minded and accepting (there’s a reason the inferior function is sometimes called the aspirational function), but it’s something he admittedly struggles with at times. he believes in compromise and understanding, and not just in an Fe way — dimitri advocates for reaching out to other perspectives in war, in politics, and in various other contexts throughout the story. it isn’t the first thing on his mind, but it’s an ideal he genuinely admires. and later in the game, once he snaps out of his loop (which is inherently tunnel-visioned due to its introverted nature), he opens up to the idea again and seeks to understand edelgard’s point of view. he asks to speak with her, to get a better idea of where she’s coming from, to negotiate and hopefully reach a mutual understanding. this echoes his dialogue in chapter 3, where he laments the incident with lord lonato and expresses his belief that they shouldn’t have cut him down, but talked to him instead. dimitri’s Si-Ti loop effectively shuts this desire down, for a very long time, but it finally wakes up again once byleth reminds him “there must be another way.”

“I wonder which is best, Professor... To cut away that which is unacceptable, or to find a way to accept it anyway.”

again, as long as byleth is there to steer him back on track, we all know the answer dimitri gets to this in the end. there is always an air of uncertainty about it all — and he definitely needs someone to help kick that inferior into “aspirational mode” — but he is ultimately capable of it. it begins as more of a question than anything, but with guidance it becomes an ideal he can properly believe in and seek for himself. it’s what allows him to finally reach for edelgard’s hand in the end. once he accepts the parts of himself he previously couldn’t, he finds himself able to accept edelgard as well — to extend that same mercy to her. once he’s out of his loop, he doesn’t just regain awareness of his loved ones’ needs with Fe, but becomes invested in understanding their perspectives and motivations again with Ne. he listens to people again, lets them help him, asks them questions, and shows genuine curiosity in their answers. claude would be proud eh?

Shadow Functions

okay here we go. i’m going to make this part shorter since it’s the main functions that matter most, and i know not everyone subscribes to the idea of shadow functions. but anyway here’s the dirt.

Opposing Se

“It’s not that I have grown weary...more that I find it difficult to be around everyone at the moment.”

this man literally cannot taste food. do i even need to elaborate? okay for real though, dimitri often finds it hard to remain present. he’s often caught up in his duties with Si, or worrying about the atmosphere with Fe, or stuck in his research with Ti, and so on. he is very much capable of making pleasant conversation, but actually feeling present is very difficult for him, and he even goes so far as to describe joy as “fleeting.” he struggles to enjoy festivities, claiming they “don’t suit [him],” and prefers instead to chat with byleth about his childhood. he can’t truly enjoy the meals he eats with others, but he remarks about the dishes he “used to love as a child.” trauma aside, dimitri finds genuine comfort in reminiscing about the past, and he often brings it up in his conversations with others. this is a classic dynamic between dominant Si and the opposing Se that comes along with it.

Critic Fi

“Whatever my feelings, it is all the act of a monster.”

dimitri’s personal feelings are...very, very low on his priority list. and despite all his preaching, he ultimately believes that whatever his personal moral compass may be, it doesn’t justify his actions. and he extends this belief to everyone else as well. simply put, dimitri doesn’t think any set of ideals or morals can justify the actions committed in war. as Aleczandxr words it, “the only reality of war is tragedy for him. there is no such thing as a ‘glorious’ or ‘romantic’ death, and sacrifice is blasphemy.” this is evident in his disgust at people trying to glorify glenn’s death (which dimitri ironically shares with felix — who of course has demon Fi — but that’s a topic for another time.) no subjective concept of morality could possibly justify murder, in any context, and this belief is a burden dimitri admits he believes he will carry forever. dimitri’s introverted realm is a reconciliation between Si and Ti, not Si and Fi. although he believes this should apply to everyone in theory, he often struggles to voice it outright, leading to the hypocritical dynamic that often comes with auxiliary Fe and critic Fi. an example of this is when he tells ashe not to beat himself up for what happened with lord lonato, in an attempt to comfort him, but then proceeds to beat himself up for the exact same thing as soon as ashe leaves. furthermore, the advice he gives marianne in his support with her is to understand that she doesn’t have to “force [her]self to smile as [her] soul bleeds,” though that is exactly what he does for the majority of the academy phase. in any case, the fact that he chooses to give her this specific advice, of all things, is telling.

Trickster Te

“I do not want you to die a death like that. Not even for the sake of loyalty or duty.”

dimitri struggles with efficiency. his intense loathing of sacrifice, regardless of context, makes it very difficult for him to strategize as a commander the way that edelgard does. his rational side is, for the most part, internal; he uses it for his research, his theorizing, his personal endeavors to obtain more information and better understand his circumstances. but he struggles to apply that same level of cold, hard logic while commanding his troops, especially in battle. this comes up in his support with ingrid, who remarks that any good king innately understands some of his soldiers’ lives must be sacrificed for the greater good. she then proceeds to call dimitri’s ideals soft-hearted, which is as good an encapsulation as any of how his Te compares to edelgard’s. war and battlefields aside, dimitri struggles with being harsh in general, preferring to speak to others in softer, more personal terms rather than being blunt. he translates his Ti findings into “acceptable” Fe terms, except for when he enters a loop and said Fe shuts down. during these phases, dimitri is harsh in a manner far more characteristic of “unfiltered” Ti than it is of unrestrained Te, as he snaps at others to leave him alone more than he is inclined to order them around.

Demon Ni

“Do I have the right to live for myself?”

as soon as dimitri snaps out of his Si-Ti revenge craze, his first instinct is to ask who or what he should live for now. and even after byleth tells him to live for what he believes in, it’s very clear in dimitri’s subsequent supports that “what he believes in” is still fulfilling his duty to his kingdom. the difference is that he now has a healthier conception of said duty, and is finally open to accepting his loved ones’ support. that said, he has never been naturally inclined to follow his more personal desires, plainly admitting that he has rarely — if ever — given his own dreams any thought. furthermore, he struggles considerably with looking toward the future, and is unable to do so without byleth, who needs to physically stop him from looking back and guide him onward in the final cutscene. even at his healthiest, dimitri is a defender of the past. he criticizes edelgard by asking her if she would really force people to “throw their lives away for the future,” and warns her that regardless of how strongly she believes in her vision, the future she creates will be “built on a foundation of tears.” this is because he understands, better than most, just how critical the past can be in any individual’s life.

Conclusion

the internet needs to stop hating Si and just let characters be well-written “and Si” at the same time lol. especially in such obvious, practically textbook cases of high Si. one of the most common arguments against Si dimitri is that his devotion to the past is only caused by his trauma, and “isn’t the real him.” the fact of the matter is, dimitri’s Si manifests in so much more than just his duty to avenge the fallen. it plays a huge role in so many other elements of his personality, as do the other functions that come with being an ISFJ. i’m tired of these implications that Ni is some inherently higher, “healthier” form of being lying under literally any indication of Si, which automatically gets discarded as trauma or something lmao. c’mon guys ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

#fe3h #dimitri #mbti #isfj

4 notes · View notes

winterune · 5 years ago

Note

Can I get the MBTI and Enneagram types of the Fruits Basket characters? :3

Hi Anon! I am so sorry for the late reply!! I’ve been busy for the past week or so and since I’m not well-versed in MBTI, let alone Enneagram, it took a while to gather my thoughts about it. But, let me just say this first: thank you so much for reaching out to me and asking me this question :D I’m probably not the person who can give you the best answer but I will try my best!

It’s been a while since I typed any character, and it’s also been a while since I read Fruits Basket, so this may not be entirely accurate. However, since I haven’t read much on Enneagram, I’ll just give you their MBTI types, and I am sorry if I can only give you the gist of what I think their types are and not a specific MBTI type (I think I need to reread the manga for that to happen, but even then I can’t guarantee you that I can type them ^^;)

With that out of the way, let us begin

Tohru Honda

I think Tohru’s an SF, specifically an ISFJ. Her function stack would be Si-Fe-Ti-Ne. Si means that she is better at receiving concrete, tangible information which she later stores in her memory. And then she uses those information to reach group harmony (Fe). I believe that Tohru is an Fe-user. Her first and foremost principle is to make the people around her happy, for them to be comfortable, even at the cost of her own happiness. This stems from a deep sense of insecurity within her. She doesn’t want to be hated. She wants to be liked. So she conforms to other people’s wishes and acts how she is “supposed” to act. I did wonder if that’s an unhealthy Fi, because sometimes, when her “mask” is off (because yes, I do think that she wears a mask most of the time, and the only time that mask falls off is when she is with Kyo), all she wants is to be selfish for once and not be judged by it. However, compared to Kyo (whom I also think is an SF), Tohru does not seem to have a concrete view of who she is, which is a core value of an Fi I think, hence why I believe her to be an Fe-user.

Kyo Sohma

I also think Kyo is an SF. Unlike Tohru, I think that Kyo is an Fi-user. He has a firmer grip on who he is, his values, what he likes and dislikes. He never sees the need to be like other people, to maintain group harmony. He is his own person, and if you can’t deal with that, then that’s OK. Well, no, it’s not entirely OK. He has a lot of frustration and hatred that he keeps locked up inside him. He internalizes his feelings and rarely say what he truly feels. And then he makes decisions on his own, based on what he thinks is right (for example, that time he hurt Tohru’s feeling without meaning to, because he hadn’t realized that Tohru’s felt the same way about him, and he made the decision to step away because he thought it was the best for them). He also uses Se, in how he has an easier time absorbing tangible rather than abstract information. He is also quite observant, I think, and is very good with his hands–he can cook, fight, and do all kinds of hand skills. With that, I’d think he’s an ISFP, his function stack being Fi-Se-Ni-Te.

Yuki Sohma

Yuki is an NT, in my opinion. I haven’t gathered much of my thought about Yuki, but I feel like his feeling function is lower than Kyo’s, hence why he’s a T. His N is just…well, he’s not the sensor type. Yuki actually has good managerial and executive skills (Te), and I think that when he’s set his mind on something, he is able to plan and execute the steps needed to achieve it?? (Or is that just me trying to conform him into the INTJ type? lol). What I do think is that his self-pity and self-hate and self-blame, and also blaming other people for his misfortunes, reflects a low Fi, either as the tertiary or inferior function, in which throughout the first-half of the manga, he is either in a Ni-Fi loop or Fi-grip, depending on where the Fi is stacked. In that case, I think he is either an INTJ or ENTJ, but I think he’s more of an INTJ than an ENTJ. Another reason why I think he’s a Fi: even though Yuki is “accepted” as part of the zodiac, he never really feels like he belongs. One thing that is a stark contrast between Yuki and Kyo is how Kyo is jealous of Yuki “acceptance” as part of a group, while Yuki is jealous of Kyo’s “freedom”. He may be an NF, with an unhealthy Fi.

I think I’ll stop here for today. It’s not perfect, and maybe if I reread the manga and pay more attention to each of the characters, I may be able to type them better. And I’m sorry that this is all I can do right now. I have not typed the others, but if you’d like, I can try typing the rest of the Sohma clan in another post :)

#fruits basket #furuba #tohru honda #kyo sohma #yuki sohma #mbti #musings #furuba musings #asks

8 notes · View notes

phoenixmarks · 7 years ago

Text

Typing myself

It’s been suggested that I am mistyped a few times. I’ve been called an INTJ, INFP and ISTP before and the reasons are understandable. So after much deliberation I decided I’d post about it - because I think best while talking or writing, I might want to refer to this later on and…who knows? It might help someone else who thinks they might be mistyped or has been called mistyped.

Fair warning: right now I’m exhausted, having come off a 12 hour shift. But can’t sleep because my mind is too busy. So this might be a bit odd. And long.

So… Functions.

INTJs and INFPs both use Te and Fi rather than Ti and Fe. It’s been suggested that I use Fi and Te because of the way I’ve reasoned in some arguments. Here’s the thing, though.

“You don’t know me.” - When it was said that I used Fi, this was the main reason given. Use of this phrase is a very Fi thing, true…but I’d say there’s a slight difference that must be accounted for. Fi will think that a person absolutely cannot know them well enough to make a judgement about them - when Fi disagrees with someone about their identity, Fi will put it down to a lack of deep understanding of who they, the Fi user, are. But sometimes it’s a simple fact that people don’t know you well enough at that time and you don’t have to be a Fi user to point it out. Yes, “thin slicing” is a thing. There are “vibes” one gets based on small, subconsciously absorbed details. Fe users (especially high Fe) are expert at using this. But… it’s still biased by ones own expectations and experience. It can be wrong - there can be information that’s not immediately obvious that needs to be accounted for. On the last occasion someone said I was an INFP, something that wasn’t being accounted for was Fe grip. Yes, when you have to rely on grips and loops and all sorts of justifications you’re probably mistyped - but in most cases, I don’t have to. In that particular case I really only got involved in the discussion because I was already on the edge and I tipped over it really quickly. I do have a certain mental illness and am prone to grip, and had been coming off a very long and trying day. Now, Fe grip does have some very Fi like behaviours - notably the famous Fi wall of text also shows up in inferior Fe if the person in question has enough confidence to actually send the text. My inferior Fe can be seen, however, in that despite me not really caring what others think of me, I still felt the need to make them understand what I’m saying. Inferior Fe means dominant Ti, which hates inaccuracy, and inferior Fe itself will generally not give a damn what others think, but occasionally just needs that external validation. Personally I think a high Fi user on the other hand would have quit that discussion long ago because…why bother? Fi will put them down to not understanding and will move on, because they’re exhausting and high Fi doesn’t need others to understand. I could be wrong about this, though.

As for Te, it was suggested that I was a Te user because of my emphasis on evidence and accreditation. However, consider that Ti is well known for wanting absolutely all the information about everything before starting to form an opinion - the difference between Ti and Te is that Ti will use external facts as something to assess, agree or disagree with, and ultimately will form its own theory which either supports/is supported by those facts, or contradicts them, whereas Te will take facts and use them as is. Te, as I understand it, cares less for developing ideas than using them. Te will say “here’s information and it proves me right” - Ti will say “here’s the information I was looking at, here’s what I think about it, do I make sense to you in light of/in comparison to this information?” As for asking others to offer evidence for their arguments - I’d say both Ti and Te are prone to that and Ti might even be more so than Te. Why? Because Ti has built its logical framework and will not adjust that unless you can prove it’s flawed. Lacking measurable facts, Ti will consider its own theories to have as much value as those opposing it, and will therefore stick to its own theory. In addition, if you offer facts that contradicts Ti, it will make every effort to reconcile those facts with its theories instead of entirely replacing its theories, as it’s loathe to discount its own reasoning. Compare Te, which will measure its facts against the opposing facts and, if the opposition makes a stronger argument, adopt those facts instead. Te has no qualms about abandoning what it thought was true - although Te may hang on to some information because it “worked” in some context, and Te believes the best measure of validity is results. I use Ti - I consider an argument valid based not on the amount of evidence supporting it, but on the consistency of the argument. Does it make sense to me? If not, I’ll do whatever I can to try and see it - asking for evidence in support of the argument, for example, to build a theory on, or to prove my own theory false - and I will always try to build a better theory that explains everything rather than abandoning my position entirely. Also, use of fallacies such as the No True Scotsman fallacy (which is the one I despise most) or false equivalents or false dichotomies, etc (hope those are the correct terms, exhaustion is catching up) immediately make me consider an argument less valid regardless of what’s being said.

Now as for perceiving functions, ISTP and INTJ both use Se/Ni instead of Ne/Si.

The argument for me being a high Se user was based on my physicality and on behaviour (long ago, when my mental health was at its worst) that would seem to indicate unhealthy but high Se - I was a victim of the jocks in school, just like many others, and I eventually decided to deal with their attacks by choking them. I’m not proud of it, but there it is. But think about it, though. Why choking? I am an expert swordsman with years of experience (the above mentioned physicality) which comes with good reflexes, well trained muscle memory and…in short, the ability to take a good swing at someone instead. The answer is Ne and inferior Fe. Inferior Fe, when unhealthy, may seek to be controlling. And the fear of suffocation is very primal. Ne offered that as a solution to the threat - it places me in a position of control and scares not just my victim but anyone else who might choose their side. For the same reason I had a habit of carrying around improvised weapons - intimidation is half the fight. Choking means that even if they’re not afraid enough to leave me alone, I’m in a position where it’s harder for them to fight back, and grows exponentially more difficult the longer they’re deprived of oxygen. Ne can, in fact, be used to facilitate violence.

As to my stacking - Ti Ne Si Fe. The best indication of dominant Ti I can offer is that I show inferior Fe, although there are other indications such as the way my first response to literally anything is “wait, let me think.”

I also show auxiliary Ne in the way I employ my Ti, plus tertiary Si both in how I treat experience as a “grab bag” of details to help me with new experiences and in my general rebelliousness. There's more, but too tired to elaborate and I don't feel the need to.

I may edit this once I’ve had some sleep. For now… Here you go. I welcome any questions or thoughts.

#intp #mbti #ne #ti #fe #si #se #ni #te #fi #cognitive functions #mistypes

10 notes · View notes

ill-be-istj-if-no-one-else-is · 7 years ago

Note

Hi there, this is going to sound silly but how can you tell the difference between fi-dom and tert-fe? Especially if Fe is looping? Also healthy and unhealthy? (Im sorry this is so long. I love this blog, thank you have a nice day!)

Hi anon, don’t worry about length. I’ve gotten asks that are literally 10 parts long. I’ve had people message me for over two hours straight. And while sometimes a lot of information is necessary, this ask is a masterpiece of brevity and I truly appreciate it.

You can tell the difference through a few ways. I also as per usual have some advice on how to better go about typing.

First: Fi vs. Fe. I’ve posted about this recently. While the way this function manifests does depend on stacking (dom Fi will be how someone primarily approaches the world whereas tert Fe will be filtered through aux Ti and the dominant perceiving function), the fundamental differences between Fi and Fe will hold.

Unhealthy Fe tends to become obsessed with the responses of others, doing anything to get the desired response. This can show up as manipulation, bullying/trolling, or neglecting one’s own needs to serve others exclusively, depending on what that response is. In my experience unhealthy tert Fe tends to do the first two rather than the third, but all are possible, especially in a loop.

Unhealthy Fi tends to isolate, becoming self-righteous, developing a “me against the world” mentality, or just not caring what happens to other people. All are possible; the last option is most likely in a grip (for dom Fi) whereas the others are probably more likely.

Now as for actually telling them apart in a person: I’m guessing that you’ve decided on your top perceiving function and so you’re trying to figure out either ISFP vs. ESTP or INFP vs. ENTP. Some things that might help:

I as a rule advise against trying to type assuming the person in a loop. You might type someone incorrectly because they’re in a loop but I believe you’re more likely to try and overcorrect because you think they’re in a loop when they’re not. I also suspect people have a tendency to think themselves others more unhealthy than they actually are (or at the very least conflate mental illness/trauma and function health when the truth is probably more complicated than we realize).

I would also consider ESFP or ENFP. I’m not sure why those aren’t in the mix, especially if you’re thinking there’s an Ne or Se loop with Fe (indicating that you’re seeing a lot of both Ne/Se and Fe but no feeling function). Trying to figure out the true location of the perceiving function may help you narrow things down.

Look at the thinking functions as well. If you’re really not seeing them at all - if this is truly a looping person - then yes, you’ll need to go off of feeling. But even a dom Fi user will probably have some flashes of Te, and a non-looping ExTP will show Ti even if their Fe seems prominent.

#mbti #introverted feeling #extroverted feeling #typing #Anon ask #answered asks

10 notes · View notes

mbti-notes · 5 years ago

Note

Are you familiar with Little Women? Is Beth INFP or ISFJ? I don't really see enough Ne or Fe. I'm wondering how to determine the aux when her life/dev was cut short. Is Amy ESFP or ENFJ? You've said that using the tert is more likely to lead to problems, but how to differentiate an impulsive kid or unhealthy Se? I don't know what Laurie is and I'd love to hear any thoughts of yours. Thanks

I haven’t read the book. I’ve watched the 1994 and 2019 film adaptations and read some literary commentary. I don’t know whether I’ve captured the true spirit of the characters in my mind yet.

The story is a period piece at this point, which means that context is very important for getting into the minds of the characters. That is, we should avoid projecting our current understanding about personality expression onto past eras. Theirs was a time when people, especially women, were not afforded the freedom that we have today to be oneself and pursue one’s own happiness. They were also quite limited in their exposure to the wider world, thus, new and diverse learning opportunities were rare and to be cherished. Despite being in financial hardship and difficult political times, I believe that the girls had a good moral upbringing. The fact that the girls eventually learned the right things to focus on in life is a credit to their mother’s strong and steady influence. Given this backdrop, I think there will be more examples of healthy than unhealthy function use. The girls are well-adjusted people.

Yes, it is more difficult to assess children, as they do not express the functions in typical adult fashion. Adults have the benefit of many years of feedback about their function use and they are more consistent in their function expression, whereas children are in their experimental phase and often misfire in their attempts to use a function. That is, there is a lot of “noisy” data to sort through when observing kids.

Beth

I’ve often seen words like “shy”, “pious”, and “industrious” used to characterize her. I don’t think introvert is in doubt. Her manner is reserved, she prefers to keep to herself, and she is self-motivated. I don’t think F is in doubt. She cares very deeply and her judgments/decisions are largely informed by her feelings.

Other than the expected imaginative play of all children, I don’t see any evidence of Ne, and she should be showing some significant signs at her age. Being P means being a prospector of information. She lacks the curious, exploring, and adventurous mindset of NPs. Shy and reserved INFPs still find ways to explore the world safely such that they feel brave in their own way (a great example that pops to mind is the character Amélie from the film of the same name). But Beth is perfectly content to close herself off from practically every opportunity to venture out into the world, and there were some very good opportunities presented to her that NPs typically wouldn’t be able to resist. She prefers that life is tightly structured around familiar people, routines, and comfort zones, where she is able to feel in control of her own realm. Of all the sisters, she seems to enjoy her routines the most, as she is most likely to perform her chores and duties without complaint or requiring admonishment. Dutiful, obedient, routine, and “industrious” behavior does not come naturally to INFPs (i.e. not without coercion of some kind), in fact, they tend to really struggle with it unless they are motivated by deep passion. Therefore, there’s compelling evidence that Si is the higher function.

One of the main arguments I’ve seen for INFP revolves around Beth’s strong moral beliefs. If every person with strong moral beliefs is Fi dom, the world would be overrun with them. Why is it that, of all the types, SFJs are known for being the best caregivers? Let’s not do them a disservice by downplaying the strong moral beliefs that FJs are also capable of. It’s more important to look at the source of the beliefs and how exactly they are expressed.

To me, the word “pious” invokes Si more than Fi. A pious person is a rule-abider at heart, someone who deeply respects tradition and ritualistic expressions of it. A pious person also faithfully corrects un-pious behavior, as a form of self-improvement. Challenging oneself to be “proper” (Si) is somewhat different than feeling “good” (Fi). I would argue that Beth’s morality comes from her sense of what is proper and “expected” of people, as picked up in very literal terms from her mother’s pithy advice. Beth is acutely aware of how her suffering might impact others and tries her best to put people at ease. She also never needs to be told twice and she doesn’t struggle with moral decisions in the way that her sisters do.

INFPs often feel conflicted when decision-making because they tend to be full-to-the-brim with conflicted feelings after having prospected too many Ne possibilities. Beth does not seem to suffer this common problem because she’s not just about following her feelings and she’s not as full of conflicted feelings as one would expect of INFPs (i.e. F is not dominant). She is naturally good at managing feelings and keeping them in check because her main approach to information is to structure it with rules and regulations. And purposely keeping her world very contained to the known and simple is a way of making doubly sure that the rules are never difficult to follow. Luckily for her, she lived during a time when it was still relatively easy to choose a small and simple life, away from the stressors of the world at large. She didn’t get to experience the weeds of developing Fe because she purposely kept life simple socially, and then she died before she was forced out into the real world.

Amy

Aside from the impulsiveness one would expect of children, I’m not sure I see other significant signs of Se dom. Fortunately, we do get to see her grow up, and the mature Amy doesn’t resemble ESFP.

One of the main differences that I look for between ESFPs and ENFJs is the degree to which they “think” about how to socialize and fit in. ENFJs approach socializing in a much more complicated way than ESFPs, for better and for worse. ENFJs are more “calculating” socially (for lack of a better word) because Fe relies on knowledge of social norms to achieve social acceptance. ESFPs tend to fit in more naturally by virtue of being themselves and showing off whatever obvious talents or good qualities they have. The more ESFPs “think” about how to socialize, the more they fumble socially, because they get further and further away from themselves (i.e. betrayal of Fi + poor use of Ni). The more carefully ENFJs think about how to socialize, the more they succeed at climbing the social ladder, because they are better able to abstract the essential rules for socializing well (i.e. good use of Fe + Ni).

As a result of this main difference in “complexity” of socializing, ENFJs tend to think/talk a lot more about fitting in (how to do it and how to behave the right way), whereas ESFPs tend to reject abstract talk about “how to” and prefer to “just do it”, since complexity only leads them astray. Notice how Amy gives Jo and Laurie unsolicited advice about how to be “better”, i.e., more acceptable. ESFPs aren’t likely to interfere with people like that because they don’t possess complicated “social worries” to project onto others.

Amy often gets obsessed about particular things that she believes are necessary for “moving up in the world”, such as: physical appearance, material possessions, matters of etiquette, impressing the right people, learning the right crafts, developing the right skills, and so on and so on. Moving up in the world seems to be her main character motivation AND she’s a natural at it. ESFPs, with the strength and conviction of healthy Fi, tend to dislike/resent the idea of social hierarchy, so it pains them a lot more to feel forced into participating in categorizing people along those lines, and, in the end, they will feel that social rewards are meaningless if obtained through betraying Fi. ENFJs are much more willing to play the long social game, even when they are aware that it’s all an act, because Fe benefits much more greatly than Se from the rewards of social status. In the end, Amy makes the correct decision to prioritize her well-being over the superficial trappings of social status (Fe+Ni well-balanced).

Laurie

I’m not sure about him, either, because he’s a supporting character and we aren’t privy to all of his motivations. Being rich affords him a carefree life, so his personality development is rather slow due to not being challenged to grow. I think he’s introverted as he’s modest and unassuming, not one to actively seek out attention, esteem, or glory. I think he’s P as he doesn’t seem to require any structure and is content amusing himself with whatever he likes moment to moment. He seems to scrape by just fine no matter where he is or what he’s doing, and he doesn’t aspire to much more than drifting along. However, I think his lack of aspiration isn’t a natural part of his personality but more a result of him being bogged down by unresolved heartbreaks. He feels somewhat alone in the world (family issues). He dreams of being with Jo but she refuses him. He dreams of being a musician but feels torn about disrespecting his benefactor. He dreams of various careers but lacks the talent.

What’s his main motivation? I think he would love nothing more than to devote himself wholeheartedly to the people he loves. He’s basically willing to accept any sort of life as long as he gets to be with his loved ones. This deep romanticism indicates F, and if also P, then Fi dom. His long and deep devotion to the IDEAL of being with Jo might indicate Ne. Later, he longs for the past and his childhood relationships with Jo and the girls, which might be an indication of Fi-Si loop. He has mythologized Jo, their past together, and the future they could’ve had. It takes both Jo and Amy to make him face facts. A running theme in the book is how women are expected to be proper for men (so as to be a good influence and/or not lead them astray), and the sisters saving Laurie from himself is a good example of that.

Observe how he sizes up the girls and the ways in which he tries to care for and protect them. One thing that he seems to value a lot is “authenticity” and he tends to call them out for inauthentic behavior throughout the years. He had a hand in Amy re-evaluating her priorities. In return, Amy taught him that "authenticity” is a privilege (as women didn’t have the freedom to be authentic) and he came to admire her ambition and tenacity. He seems to think that he’s good at sizing people up, but she’s on a different level. I think that he was impressed by her blunt assessment of his lifestyle, probably because he had never encountered that sort of tough love (aka honesty) before. It seems that he needed someone to be tough with him, which is common for INFPs. Jo was always the star of the show, too self-involved to encourage his growth. Amy opened up his mind, which he seemed to sorely need for moving forward (perhaps Ne resolution).

#little women #beth #amy #laurie #fiction #fictional depictions #isfj #infp #enfj #esfp #ask

56 notes · View notes

funkymbtifiction · 7 years ago

Text

Miscellaneous questions:

Hello! First, I would like to thank you, for keeping this tumblr updated, including novel perspectives, being receptive to questions and helping us understand ourselves and others.

I loved the new layout, it is beautiful, more colorful and more inviting.

I am “submitting a post”, but actually I have a few questions, that I gathered throughout a few months and I would be very nice if you could answer them, please. I don’t have a tumblr.

a) Could you please do a ESTJ X ISFJ relationship contrast? Two people very dear to me have this MBTI combination, and I thought maybe knowing how their functions work together, could help me help them understand each other. ( I would guess the isfj is a enneagram core 2 and the estj is a core 8, if you could also include this in the comparison, would be awesome)

You’re welcome. I’m glad you enjoy the blog and find its information useful. :)

Looks like one of my co-mods (INTP) has done a comparison between ESTJ and ISFJ here, so I won’t retrace old ground except to say 2 is a common ISFJ Enneagram and would make them a ‘giver’ personality; an 8 makes an ESTJ blunt and forward, which will cause occasional emotional misunderstandings and hurt feelings on the ISFJ’s part. 8′s can come in two flavors – aggressive, tactless, and domineering (unhealthy) and protective, proactive, and unafraid to stand up for what is right (healthy) – so depending on which the ESTJ is, their relationship could benefit both, because 2 and 8 move into one another. 2′s become more like 8′s (protective and reactive) under stress, while 8′s move toward 2′s as they get healthier (more connected to their emotions and needs and in sharing their more sensitive ‘core’ with other people). ESTJs are good for ISFJs in that they push them to more forward action; ISFJs are good for ESTJs in that they encourage them to connect to their emotions.

b) How can a person that uses Fi benefit from therapy? In some posts here, you have talked about how Fe users feel better after talking about their feelings, and how Fi needs to process their feelings by themselves during a period of time. How can someone help a Fi person go through their problems?

Some Fi users are more willing to discuss their problems (when ready) with therapists than others, but I personally think a therapist benefits a Fi user the most in terms of helping them come up with a workable plan of action, or to act as a sounding board to validate their feelings. Fi’s are sometimes concerned about how they should feel and why they do not feel that way, especially if it seems out of sync with the environment, so having someone listen and tell them any emotion is fine can be helpful to less-secure Fi’s. Te also likes the straight truth, so the best therapist for a Fi/Te axis is one that listens, and then challenges them to find ways to resolve their problems and bring closure.

d) Is looping always a bad thing? If so, why?

No, it isn’t. It’s very helpful in work environments and creative processes, but it’s better to allow your mind to switch effortlessly between functions all day long – to, if you’re an ISFP, allow Fi to guide you toward what you feel most passionate about, Se to seek opportunities to act in the moment / take you forward, Ni to provide insight and an idea for the desired outcome, and Te to execute it all. A loop for a couple of hours is fine, even helpful. A loop for a couple of days is more taxing on your brain. Any longer than that, you might fall out of balance.

e) Can you use all your functions at once ( Maybe not at the exact time, but in time frames closer to one another)? How?

I believe the theory says you cannot use them all at the same time; but your brain shifts so quickly between all of them on a regular basis, it’s hard to separate them – which is why it can be hard to describe the functions without bias or ‘influences’ – and why you may or may not identify with them. The pure Ne descriptions, for example, would make all Ne-users seem flighty, unrealistic, and unattached from reality – the lower functions, however, should be at work grounding them, making them see the sensible side of life, and ‘dampening’ Ne. In an average day, you use all your functions on and off, unless you are resisting functional development and pushing away from those functions (which never lets them mature, and results in stereotypical behavior or imbalances). It takes a fraction of a second to shift between them, if you’re not ‘stuck’ deep-thinking in one. (This is why depression sucks… you get lost in a function.)

f) The only ways you can use your inferior function is through being “in the grip”, in combination with your secondary function or if using all the functions at once is possible, or is there some other way?

You can use your inferior function any time, but it’s an afterthought – your absolute last line of defense after you’ve run through the options of the higher ones. So, if you’re at work and you’re an INFJ, you’ll mostly use Ni to foresee and visualize what you want, Fe to network with people, Ti to analyze problems, and then Se to ‘take action’ and move forward. In the grip is when you over-use your inferior function and get stuck there, acting unlike yourself and being unable to tap into any of the higher functions to restore balance to your life. Second/inferior functions are not a recognized loop.

f) I was thinking about enneagram, and got curious about something. Is it possible for someone to be ( think of “X” and “R” as any enneagram type from the missing center, and their wings) 1w2 2w1 XwR or 4w5 5w4 XwR or 7w8 8w7 XwR? If so, how can this person identify which is the wing, which is the core type and figure out their tritype? That would make the process of finding the tritype harder or easier?

Yes, it is possible to have mirrored Enneagram types – such as 4w5 for your heart type, and 5w4 for your head type. What happens with this is that all the traits of each are ENHANCED to an incredible degree, making you MORE 4, and MORE 5 – creating extreme versions of those personalities. This can make it extremely difficult to find your type, but when all else fails – look at how you act under stress (do you move from 4 to unhealthy 2 first, or from 5 to unhealthy 7?) and look at your fears and rank them according to what you’d sacrifice first.

5′s want independence and fear they may lack the resources to cope with the outside world. 4′s want uniqueness and fear they will never find what they seek.

4-core will sacrifice 5 needs up front, to keep 4 happy; 5-core will sacrifice 4 needs up front to keep 5 happy.

Your motives and behavior when problem solving goes: core strategies -> wing strategies -> disintegration point -> first fix strategies* -> first fix’s wing’s strategies -> last fix strategies -> last fix’s wing’s strategies.

* There’s some debate about whether your lower tritype fixes disintegrate.

- ENFP Mod

#question #mbti #enneagram #submission

30 notes · View notes

ill-be-istj-if-no-one-else-is · 7 years ago

Text

“What should I look at when trying to type someone?”

I get this question or variations thereof a lot so I decided I’d put together a non-comprehensive guide.

Including this information doesn’t guarantee you can be typed from it (typing anyone over the internet is difficult and unreliable) but it will help.

Before we start:

Mental illness or cognitive conditions can affect how you behave. There’s no getting around it. I can’t tell you what’s the mental illness (or ADHD, or whatever) and what’s “you”; honestly that’s a pretty deep philosophical debate with answers that vary from person to person. And as always I am not a mental health professional.

Also: I find it is more helpful to type yourself assuming standard cognition and figure out loops or grips as needed rather than assuming you’re looping or gripping. Honestly I don’t even know how you decided you’re looping or gripping without some idea of your type to start.

Behavior over time

That’s the main thing. What behaviors do you have that are consistent and sustained? Those are more likely to indicate your personality than the exceptions; for example, do you always procrastinate? Then the one time you finished a project on time isn’t the example you should be giving me.

Age

If you’re okay with giving an age range that is helpful as it will let me know roughly where you probably are in development. For reference: prior to late teens, your tert and inf are pretty weak. Your tertiary function development really gets underway during your late teens to mid-20s, depending; inferior function development really gets underway in your late 20s and beyond. That doesn’t mean you can’t use those functions before hand, or even use them in a healthy way, but it does mean they probably won’t be the first tool you reach for. If someone is using their inferior in a really mature and thoughtful way and letting it take the lead, they’re probably in their 40s or above. Think of it this way: the 20-30 something IxTPs I know can be very warm and empathetic, but they still have a much more rigid view of personal interaction than a Fe-dom of the same age or an IxTP in their 50s.

Age also helps because a lot of people in their late teens/early 20s are swamped with tertiary function development and lean on it pretty hard but in a somewhat one-dimensional way. So they might relate a lot to descriptions of that function, which can also be rather one-dimensional.

Why you like what you like

Hobbies and likes on their own aren’t helpful but understanding why you like them is. For example: ISTP dad finds running meditative to the point of not using headphones. It also is a way he feels more in control over aging (tert Ni future concerns) and satisfies some Se competition urges. I have an INTJ friend who loves running, because she’s competing against herself (Ni self-improvement/Fi identity) and feels accomplished by doing so (Te). I’m sure there are other reasons coming from other functions for both of them. So: knowing someone likes running doesn’t help, but knowing what they like about running does.

Related: why you do what you do

A lot of lazy descriptions say INxJs overindulge in Se via drinking, overeating, etc. when stressed (Se grip) but it’s important to note that the reason for this is unhealthy Se desiring stimulation with no thought put into what that stimulation is. A lot of people eat or drink when stressed or upset and it could be for emotional numbing (inferior Fe or Fi*) or to forget about feelings of anxiety/despair (inferior Ne or Ni). Or as another example, I know I’ve procrastinated not because of distraction but out of perfectionist tendencies or fear of the unknown. Behaviors are good at eliminating types or narrowing things down but to really figure it out, we need to know the cognitive process that caused the behavior.

How you think

This can be hard to step back and observe in others and also in yourself- there’s a lot of room for confirmation bias here. But if you can consider how you think, that’s useful. Do you think of lots of things as a checklist, even if they’re not set obligations (often a Te thing)? Do you prefer conceptual learning, or hands on (often points to intuition vs. sensing)? And so on.

If you think you’re a certain type and why

I know this might seem like it would bias me one way or another and maybe it will but I find it so much easier to try to prove someone wrong (or right) than come up with an argument from whole cloth.

Why you’re asking about type

I’ve mentioned this before. This doesn’t necessarily help me type you but it might help me answer your question. As always: if someone is a complete asshole to you, your observations are probably not objective, but also genuinely why do you care? Just get them out of your life if you can or limit your time if not. I mean, it’s helpful to understand them a little, especially if you’re stuck with them, but there are a lot of reasons outside of MBTI why they might behave the way they do and focusing on MBTI probably won’t give you as good a picture as understanding where they’re coming from.

Similarly and kind of tying back to the first point, if you’re unhappy, knowing your MBTI type is not a guaranteed way to fix it or provide direction. There have definitely been times when my unhappiness was tied to my type (difficulty adjusting in new situations due to low Ne) but others where it really wasn’t and it was just a situation I didn’t like. Just as the line between mental illness and identity is a complicated one with a lot of interpretations, so is the one between identity and MBTI. The most biased and inaccurate people tend to be those who have banked everything they are on their MBTI type (and other personality systems), and the people I find most knowledgeable and well-adjusted are those who acknowledge that their type is only one piece of the puzzle.

*yes, yes, Fe and Fi aren’t necessarily feeling. But I’ve found that they almost always lead to emotional distress in loop/grip situations through frustration with self and/or others.

#mbti #reference #long post

155 notes · View notes

funkymbtifiction · 8 years ago

Text

Ne+Ti vs Ni: An ENTx endless rambling

First things first: thank you for once again answering my ask, I appreciate it and again, it did help. I’m sending this message knowing that it’ll be probably ignored or worse, blacklist me but I’ve reached the limit to where I can go without direct and specific input, so here goes nothing:

(Mod note: italics indicate Ti, bold indicates Ne)

I’ve been trying to nail down my type for quite some time now yet I can’t settle down for any typing because

1) I invariably start questioning its validity since contradictions are bound to appear and even if I can justify or rationalize them (which I have a pretty good ability to do, sadly, since it drives me insane), they bother me to no end hence I start looking or a “perfect” diagnosis again

2) I can see significant traits of myself in several of very different types, it’s maddening

3) When I spot a connection between myself and a type being described I immediately (can’t control it really) start rationalizing why it could be true, why it would explain this and that, why I couldn’t see it before, for what I was mistaking said trait/behavior for, memories of time since which I display said traits/behaviors flood my mind as well as multiple examples of people of said type I always felt a connection to or was intrigued by…all seemly at the same time or in such rapid succession I have a really hard time calming down my mind in order to try and make sense of all of what’s going on inside of it.It’s like I can find compelling (as seen by me) evidence to me being a lot of types, and I’m always 100% serious about it at the time…except my “sureness” never lasts for more than two days at a time, mostly.

It frustrates and embarrasses me because I’m hardly unsure about figuring out (and typing) other people, and I’m seldom wrong at that, but I can’t pin myself down and it makes me feel incompetent and unfit. Everyone always says I’m good analyzer and jokingly refer to me as a blunt psychologist, yet my MBTI confusion makes me feel like a fraud and I HATE it.

I highly suspect I might be mixing the 8’s need to control (I’m a 873 with 8 being the core type), which comes across as “J-ness” for Ni fixed path/truth thing (besides ENTJ lately I never get high Te or Ni types in tests, it’s always high Ti ones) and lately I’ve been daily noticing my Si “trips” so to speak and pondering over my supposedly hilarious “gastronomic memory” (I somehow can recall and describe days and situations based on what I ate that day if it was particularly delicious. I know it sounds ridiculous and I have no idea how that works, but it’s true).

I’m also pretty certain I value Fe over Fi, though ethics in general definitely take a backseat to logic most of the times, it’s noticeable enough for people to comment on it.

Two minor things I relate to Ne that I display in spades and everyone seem to find amusing is that I can never see a thing separately for a noticeable time before I see it integrated to a grid of things like it or other contexts in which the same principle or happening applies to or will influence it. Words and images almost always bring other words and images to mind and I go crazy if I can’t recall what it reminds me of specifically. This seldom happens though, usually I can reference several things/people the original object is alike to, though it seems that to a lot of people these similarities can’t be observable or comprehensible at all, but it makes perfect sense to me and I can explain how.

The other thing is that I have way too many interests for my own good and I tend to obsess over them until they saturate me, I’m totally a slave to what my mind finds interesting in detriment to my actual obligations. I also always have at least 20 tabs open on my browser, because somehow I can’t seem to read an article or watch a video without having to Google something referenced on it, which starts the rabbit hole that has no end and makes me forget what I was reading/watching/researching in the first place. Also my mom is an ENFP and so I thought I couldn’t be a Ne user because we are both alike and so different at the same time, but I now truly realize that a function may manifest differently depending on what is it paired with, and her Fi is really strong, which I can’t relate to at all. I won’t even go into Ti vs Te because by now this is already ridiculous long and I doubt anyone would even finish all this.

How can Ne+Ti mimic (or more precisely, appear to be) Ni? If possible please include concrete examples, whether fictional or real.

In that vein, could an ENTP 8 be reasonably mistaken by an ENTJ?

If you survived all this rambling and take your time to answered this somewhere in the future…you’re a hero, truly.

Not only am I a hero, my ENTP friend is a hero, since we both read it. ;)

Do you need me to say it?

YOU ARE AN ENTP.

Stop doubting it. Chill with it. Dig it. Tell your NeTi to stop considering other types. That it continues doing that should prove your own Ne-ness to you.

Everything you describe is heavily Ne, with an emphasis on Ti, so I’ll just pull a few comments out and talk about them.

Also my mom is an ENFP and so I thought I couldn’t be a Ne user because we are both alike and so different at the same time, but I now truly realize that a function may manifest differently depending on what is it paired with, and her Fi is really strong, which I can’t relate to at all.

The bold is the pure truth, my friend. ENFPs and ENTPs might look like each other on a superficial level but they are not the same thing at all. As ENTP puts it, “You have moralizing tendencies and I deconstruct all your morals.”

It’s true. My morals scream loud and clear. In fact, I can look back at my teen years and see just how black and white my moral thinking was; everything was right or wrong, good or bad. That is a WHOLE OTHER ball of wax from NeTi and their attitude of “People should be able to believe what they want, even if it’s wrong.” (This was an actual conversation I had this morning. =P)

Ne is inclined to change its opinions and perspectives with very little warning, which makes the “inconsistencies” of Ne-doms somewhat obvious (when trying to determine ENXP from ENTJ), but there are many mistypes between them floating around the internet. For example: those who insist Obama is an ENTP instead of an ENFJ, when he was there for one thing – health care – or who believe Stephen Hawking is an INTJ instead of an ENTP despite the fact that he routinely challenges and deconstructs his own theories. ;)

ENTJs have a no-nonsense approach, disinterested in deconstruction. It’s just facts and business with them, in the sense that Te wants an object to do its job, and needs no complete understanding of that object to move forward.

Since ENTPs have Ne/Fe loops, they are zany, often aimed at provoking humor in the audience, have a general sense of amiable goodwill, and are able to handle anything you throw at them without a moralizing tendency (unlike the ENFPs). Good examples of this are Billy Crystal (ENTP not INFJ), Jeff Goldblum (ENTP) and Robin Williams (ENTP, not ENFP – he’s got TONS of Fe), who described his inner chaotic world as similar to what you said above.

Yes, Enneagram makes a difference. 8′s are aggressive and that might make you come across as more ‘challenging’ of others than is typical for a Ne-dom.

- ENFP Mod

Here’s what my ENTP friend has to say:

I’m not one of the professional mods, but I AM an ENTP. And as one ENTP to another, I’m here to assure you that ENXPs’ minds move at a frenetic pace, bouncing around from idea to idea, from THOUGHT TRAIN A to THOUGHT TRAIN Z without any obvious link between them, contributing to restlessness, anxiousness. High Ne just can’t ignore the various combinations between your past and present behavior and all the different MBTI types. It constantly scans for new possibilities, new patterns and associations.

Ne is not intensive and convergent like Ni. When it reaches a sense of conviction and closure, it’s because the aux function has guided it to that direction. Ti identifies all exceptions or imagining scenarios in which a proposed explanation might falter. Our Ti reduces everything to a system, a large logical ensemble of arguments and counter-arguments, into an interconnecting network of principles and rational procedures that is disconnected fromreality and with the assistance of dom Ne, it sees the bigger picture and builds many different perspectives.

Now I am going to paraphrase the words of the Doctor. “Through crimson stars and silent stars and tumbling nebulas like oceans set on fire, through empires of glass and civilizations of pure thought, and a whole, terrible, wonderful universe of impossibilities, I welcome you to the ENTP club!”

- ENTP

#entp #mbti #question #submission

112 notes · View notes

funkymbtifiction · 8 years ago

Text

A journey in typing (ft. Olivia Benson)

SUBMITTED by howtotallyamazing

Hello all, I’m someone who has been an adamant follower of this blog for quite some time and has also changed MBTI types like changing socks (same functions, different order for the most part - save for the time I thought I was an INTP) which I believe to be part of my very overactive Ne (is it inferior? is it dominant? Is it aux? Is it tert? Trust me, I can give you arguments for each). So as of right now, I’m in yet another pickle and describing myself as an xNFP because when it comes to typing there are a lot of things to take into consideration: looping, being in the grip, cognition, etc.

So I’m going to compare my own journey to one of my typings. That of Olivia Benson from Law & Order: SVU.

If you’re not an SVU viewer, let me break it down for you: I had to take into consideration that there is now 18 seasons worth of character development for Olivia. The writers on this show thrive on dramatics and this is a character who has had everything and the kitchen sink thrown at her.

My first initial typing? ISFJ. It seemed simple enough. Olivia’s the stereotypical caregiver who wants to help people but it’s looking at functions. Does Olivia have any sign of Si or inferior Ne? No. When Olivia has to, she will put her foot down and change things more quickly than an ISFJ might. If you’re even a casual SVU watcher and you want to find a better embodiment of an ISFJ? Look at Cragen. Duty and detail oriented, thoughtful but also the embodiment of team dad when his detectives get out of line. He knows how to appease IAB when they get involved in the fold whereas other characters aren’t so apt to do that. He’s always the one to remind everyone to work within the system, reminding them how it works.

So I went back to the drawing board realizing that Olivia did not possess Si (nostalgic, often compares the present to the past, traditional? Nope.) nor did she possess Ne, especially inferior Ne. (Any impulsive behavior she had wasn’t indicative of an ISXJ nor did she possess that “WE’RE ALL SCREWED” attitude. Again, look at Cragen or Stabler for an ISFJ and an ISTJ. Stabler is a “bulldog” who is so by the book and will never admit to any wrongdoing, Fin himself said this in around season 8 or 9. If Stabler’s environment changes, he has an inferior Ne freak out of biblical proportions. Does Olivia? No. She rolls with the punches very well.)

Next typing? ISTP.

Where I got particularly screwed up? Looping vs inferior functions. At first I thought Olivia had inferior Fe which in retrospect makes me think really? She’s described as “the heart” of SVU by her own colleague (Munch, an ENTP). She is good with people and not in a Harrison Ford/Han Solo/Indiana Jones xSTP sort of way where she gives off that lovable rogue vibe. Want an ESTP? Look at Fin. Fin is good with people, good at getting them to open up or sometimes using his Fe to play them but he’s more… detached. He uses his Se better than Olivia does. He uses his Ti better than Olivia does.

Fin’s approach to questioning suspects? “You’re screwed, now tell me what happened or you’re going to go to jail. Here’s how we can tie you to the crime. Help me and I’ll help you.”

Olivia knows how to tailor fit her approach. There’s the emotional understanding approach.

And then there’s the “I will use my Fe to antagonize the living hell out of you because I know where your weak spots are”

The biggest difference between Fin (ESTP) and Olivia (INFJ)? Her indisputable dominant Ni. The biggest evidence of this on the show in a single episode is back in season 7 I want to say? The episode called “911”.

A 911 call is transferred to SVU where a little girl named Maria talks to Olivia and says she’s trapped in a room. The number is traced to someone else thanks to the suspect having cloned the cellphone that the little girl got a hold of. The restaurant she claims the man gets her food from burned down. Whenever the little girl calls back, the signal bounces from one part of the city to another. Cragen and Fin are both completely adamant that this might be a hoax between this and the looping background noise the suspect had playing in the background to throw people off to the little girl’s location. Olivia is hellbent, gung ho that this is not a prank or a hoax. That this little girl is real and she needs their help; she never wavers from this whereas Fin with his higher Se is seeing the facts as they appear. Olivia’s theory is being debunked left and right until the pieces come together slowly. The girl is real and rescued in the nick of time after the perp gets rid of her.

Hell, this happens a lot. Olivia will have an over arching hunch that can be refuted by solid physical evidence but she doesn’t waver. When her colleagues debate with her about it, she emotionally appeals to them that they have to do something. When she has a “feeling” that someone close to a suspect can be helpful, she is excellent at baiting them. I watched an episode last night where she lied and said the suspect’s wife had planted evidence to frame someone else and to be at court at 9:30am to testify against him or else she’d be arrested.

What do you know, the suspect’s wife shows up to testify and she did plant the evidence, after all, despite the fingerprints having been “inconclusive”.

So, how in the hell did I get ISTP as my first official typing after realizing her functions? It’s clear she’s not emotionally detached. It’s clear that she’s a feeler. Her Ni is higher than an XSTP’s “I have a hunch but I’ll believe it when I see it” approach. That, my friends, was thanks to looping. Olivia loops. A lot. Ni/Ti. Her Fe can completely go away because she tries to access it so much for her job that she simply… fries the aux-Fe motherboard.

Olivia’s Se is her weak point. She’s great at going undercover and thinking on her feet but… she gets caught in the cross hairs of hostage situations and near death experiences so many times because she’s too busy chasing her Ni. She’s not as in tune with her Se as say, Fin is with his. He’s reckless physically but the one instance I remember (him running into a house with a meth lab to retrieve an infant inside) is because he has to be, because he’s not going to wait for back up, he’s simply better with his Se. It comes naturally to him. Olivia’s Se also leads her to overindulgence and spontaneous decisions outside of her work (um, hey Olivia, you might not want to pursue that relationship… WHY ARE YOU GOING INTO THAT BUILDING WITHOUT BACK UP? YOU DON’T HAVE TO).

It’s easier, for the most part, with a fictional character. It’s easier when there’s distance between you and who you’re trying to type. As the mods on this blog have said so many times, you have to be honest with yourself about your faults and what you’re good at. I’ve gone from INFP to INTP (I thought I had a case of inferior Fe but then realized it was Fi, always Fi.) to ISTJ (my anxiety can be construed as WE’RE ALL SCREWED inferior Ne) to INFP to XNFP (is it my Te or Si that I’m worse with? Do I go into Fi/Si loops or Ne/Te loops? Hey remember that time you read about ENFPs being the most introverted extroverts? Hey, isn’t that a paradox? That could be you!).

My advice? Identify your functions first. Then you’ve narrowed it down to four out of sixteen possible types and that’s less daunting. Then it’s a matter of putting together a puzzle. I’m still trying but as they say, Rome wasn’t built in a day and sometimes self reflection and getting down to the nitty gritty of your cognition as well as your strengths and weaknesses can be daunting. However, being one type vs another type doesn’t make you a better or worse person. Remember that.

ENFP Mod: solid advice. Also, I feel you on the confusion over your type. Been there, done that, drove my four friends nuts for years with my bouncing back and forth while I tried on different hats. Yes, I said YEARS. Take heart, internet. You’re not stupid if you can’t figure your type out right away. There’s nothing wrong with you. Give it time. :)

#submission #olivia bensen #svu #special victims unit #law and order: svu #law and order: special victims unit #law and order #mbti

74 notes · View notes