#\ transmisogyny

[lesser-vissir]

Idk man, have you tried transitioning?

I will admit that the "trans men pass easier" statement is a bit more nuanced than "every single trans man will pass 100% of the time" but it's still a valid statement.

Not only are the effects of testosterone more far reaching than estrogen (the big spots that come to mind are that T will grow body hair in ways E can't fully reverse, and that T can provide voice changes whereas E cannot), but the social norms surrounding gendered identification are far looser for men than for women.

Like, if a woman has more than two "clocky" traits people already get suspicious and start transvestigating her. Whereas a guy can have like, six traits and nobody bats and eye.

Soooo, yeah, post medical transition trans men usually pass far easier than trans women. It's not a fucking mystery why either. But these nontransitioning trans men always crawl out of the woodwork to pretend like their existence negates the whole argument. Come back to me when you get top surgery lmao

[honeylemony]

I would like to remind any other fellow transmasc people who want to try and be a dipshit that We Have Actual Data on who is targeted in violent action towards the trans community. And it is completely overwhelmingly trans women.

Stop making trans masc people look fucking stupid and just look up the data.

there's probably a better way of wording the last part but like come on it doesn't matter if we're all the same to fascists

[frogfacey]

"ugh why do people keep accusing me of being a terf? people just loooove calling lesbians terfs for the crime of not centering men" no actually it's because you keep making posts about men pretending to be women to invade lesbian spaces and trick real lesbians into sleeping with them. and you think that bisexual penis miasma is real. and you have genital preference thursdays where anons get to tell you about their genital preferences in a safe space. and also you have some opinions about the phrase "gold star lesbian".

[velvetvexations]

I truly don't get how people can say things like this and not realize what a horrifically cruel person they are. By this logic no one should care about any trans folk, since we're all a statistically irrelevant and the more statistically dominant people would have much easier lives if they just went about their buisness not worrying about if the double digit trans girls on school sports teams gets to keep playing or not.

[tinkerbitch69]

Trans men stop making posts explicitly about transmisogyny about you instead challenge impossible

🙄

‘Gnc cis men’ this. ‘Gnc cis men’ that. What about gnc trans women? Are you normal about trans women who aren’t perfect models of hyper femininity? Do you still see and treat them like you would a gnc cis woman?

[lesser-vissir]

So, I've been keeping tabs on the Lucio post where they screenshotted me saying that TMEs of color oppress white transfems (unsaid but implied to be on the axis of transmisogyny) and of course it's been a shit show.

About two out of three comments purposefully misgender me and I saw at least one "he/him" which could mean nothing. All the white people are busy talking about how white I am while the people of color posture about how much more melanin they must have.

And throughout it all, they say that I fundamentally misunderstand intersectionality or I would see what they do: which is that it's ridiculous to believe people of color could ever oppress a white trans woman.

Well, I think this teenager just lost the plot and said out loud what the rest of them are thinking:

Of course white trans women can't be oppressed by TMEs of color, after all, they're just delusional crossdressing white men.

No one else on that post has outright said it, but considering the rhetoric, it's clear that what they believe. Transandrophobia is quite literally a TERF psyop and once you see it it's hard to unsee it.

[pretty-kitten-paw]

Transfem plural systems are the trans women of trans women

[scarlet-bee]

[smiling face emoticon]

it’s telling when people see discussions of transmisogyny as “oppression olympics” instead of like, just factual statements about reality

[florenceisfalling]

Transandrophobia isn't about trans men never being misogynistic it's about having a word to describe the combination of misogyny and transphobia that leads to trans men experiencing more violence than cis women or cis men, and similar rates of violence to trans women.

originally i typed out a much longer response where i kinda spewed a lot of frustration. but you acknowledge here that transphobia against trans men comes from misogyny & transphobia rather than "misandry" & transphobia. so youre already like, a lot better at this than plenty of folks, and i don't wanna be a jerk

just remember that trans men are more culturally and socially privileged than trans women (as made pretty blatantly evident in the executive order) and that they reap benefits of this privilege even if they don't mean to. thus, being a transmisogynistic transmasc is in fact shooting down the ladder of oppression rather than shooting sideways. keep that ^^^ in mind as part of the reason transmisogyny is necessary as a term, not for dividing us into fun little binary factions or something. consider that you don't need a term for everything (there's a reason misogynoir is not accompanied by, like, misanoir). and if you do want a term, its best to avoid warping root words which insist on a false axis of oppression towards men cis and otherwise (misandry) or are actually feminist terms for a fear of men based on traumatizing misogynistic experiences (androphobia). furthermore, try to avoid terms that come from communities rife with misinformation, terf rhetoric, and transmisogyny. and lastly, please remember before explaining what transandrophobia is to me that i used to be a transandrobro, you can literally find my old "anti-baeddel" shit on this blog if you try hard enough, i used to be in that community and in turn almost got led down a detrans terf pipeline. legitimately. i got out because i realized how bad the transmasc transmisogyny problem was, not by being preached to but by seeing it myself from the inside.

im sorry this isnt my most in depth response but i think theres at least enough here for you to get the gist

[patricia-taxxon]

remember when blaire white complained about steven crowder's homophobia by saying "come on, that's just going to give the left justification for calling us homophobic"

anyways, keep telling your followers not to touch the poop because "itll fuel her victim complex," you're very convincing.

[thefoolsprocession]

It really goes without fail every time a trans woman on here says something stupid and ignorant that someone starts making charged accusations to her.

Like yeah. She misunderstood the complexities of what she’s talking about and said something pretty bad as a result, not problematic mind you, but still ignorant. That is important to discuss. What’s not important is jumping to call her a hentai addict and compare her to neo nazis

[mightyoctopus]

[ID: Nah man, /end ID]

Tumblr users when a trans women expresses an opinion they disagree with:

[princessefemmelesbian]

One thing I wish MRAs and transandrophobia truthers understood is that the statement “women are seen as more innocent/valuable/worthy of protection” is not a universal truth and is in fact a belief steeped in whiteness. Whiny men who want to pretend that they’re oppressed for being men simply LOVE to claim that women are privileged in society because we’re seen as more innocent and given the benefit of the doubt for some things, or are seen as less dangerous, or are “cared for more” by society, or can use our “tears” to manipulate men and get ourselves out of trouble. And while sometimes this can have some basis to it, like how some people believe that women can’t rape men, or when they say “women and children”, for instances, in the majority of cases it has not been true, and I am slowly realizing why. It’s because that idea(at least in the West) has only ever been applied to white women.

Women of color NEVER get the advantage of being seen as innocent, soft, or worthy of protection, especially Black women who are stereotyped instead as strong, hardworking, mannish mules due to slavery, as well as adultified and sexualized. The same applies to other races of women like mestiza-Latina women who are seen as “spicy” or East Asian women who are seen as innocent and childlike but not in a way that inspires protection like in white women, but in a way that lets them be seen as “submissive” and thus open to be fetishized and exploited/discarded by white men as well.

Women of color are also raped more than white women, specifically due to the idea that we are inherently more sexual and less innocent than white women and always available for sexual domination and don’t deserve our virtue and dignity protected the way that white women do, but also, more twistedly, due to the idea that we are inherently more “tough” and less dainty and feminine than white women and are built to withstand brutalization, thus we can be treated roughly and abused more harshly than white women, because women of color aren’t “real” women you see? You can beat them and sexually abuse them and even murder them as aggressively and inhumanely as well, they can take it! They like it rough! They don’t deserve protection and safety and love, because they aren’t real women, y’see, they aren’t even human! And we all know about white woman tears, that isn’t anything new.

Really women of color are never given the advantage of being innocent or being catered to like princesses the way MRAs and transmisogynists claim, it is really a western/white-centric viewpoint above all else and it bothers me to see people parrot it without realizing that this only applies to white women. It’s like they only consider white women when they talk about women, it’s really sad and maddening but hey there’s white femininity for ya. It makes sense, though, because both groups are comprised predominantly of angry sensitive white men who are upset because they feel like society doesn’t coddle them enough, rather than that it coddles them too much, and take out their insecurity over their manhood and inability to reckon with their male privilege out on the more vulnerable women in their communities, whom they irrationally see as to blame for their frustration and hurt feelings. They don’t give the slightest shits about women of color, and especially not about trans women of color, because acknowledging women of color’s existence would completely upend their worldview and force them to confront the fact that they are not the ultimate victims of the planet, and that they have the power to oppress someone else and they don’t like that! If nobody’s coddling their ass 24/7, then that means that the entire world is against them, doesn’t it? And women become the enemy for pointing it out. That’s honestly all this is at this point. So done.

[transfemme-shelterdog]

The fact that terfs and radfems paint trans men as innocent uwu softbois and trans women as these hyper-sexual deviants really shows how little they know about HRT.

Speaking as someone very active in both tfem and tmasc spaces, this belief is totally divorced from reality.

When a trans guy starts T, his sex drive goes up dramatically. When a trans girl starts T blockers, her sex drive drops dramatically (this is partially why lots of trans girls go on Prog, as for some it boosts sex drive). Like, the amount of posts where some trans guy talks about how they're all of a sudden horny all the time, and posts where a trans girl asks for how to deal with her now non existent sex drive is quite high.

But yet, people paint trans girls as these sex fueled perverts. Makes no sense.

[thirsty-ikea-bug]

It's more than an optics issue too, people are correct to be put off by this behavior.

Singling out trans women and transfemmes like they're the source of a problem that's endemic to our whole society is genuinely transmisogynystic.

listen man. you gotta stop making transandrophobia a transmasc vs transfem thing. and maybe you don’t think youre doing it. you feel hurt and that is extremely valid but youre also not helping yourself by making post after post about exclusively about transfems, no matter how specific and deserving the actual subset of person youre talking about is. I think, also, its alienating to people who would otherwise agree with you but are offput by your language, not in a “well i agree with you but you should say it different” way but a “i would learn more about this topic but this language makes me uncomfortable so i am going to avoid it.” it actually isnt very helpful if you want to argue that transandrophobia doesnt suggest trans women oppress trans men (which it doesnt and never has) if the only perpetrators of it you ever talk about are trans women and that that is the first exposure some people will ever have to the theory.

[that-satireguy]

What you're saying makes sense, and I feel so much empathy for you because you specifically are right about trans men's treatment in your context.

The more trans-accepting a country the more ftm people (considered man-lite) have significant advantages over mtf people (considered woman-lite)

In places like the middle-east, india, iran, afghanistan, tajikistan, mtf are considered man-lite and have significant advantages over ftm people (considered woman-lite).

You're fighting the wrong battle. Most trans people from our countries know ftm people are disadvantaged, but its the opposite in america.

The trans men you see in america as having the same struggles you do, do not have those. The trans women do.

Source- 36 year old trans woman who grew up in india till 28, and has been in the US ever since.

This has been sitting in my inbox for about a week now. And has genuinely been making me think a lot.

I don't have an answer or rebuttal yet, but I do want you to know I've seen this. And also ask other trans people.

Does this have a kernel of truth to it?