#<- miles edgeworth during turnabout goodbyes

[doctorsiren]

please tell me miles figures out his dad isnt haunting him /neg but /pos instead at some point after dl-6 is resolved

He’s like “yknow, maybe the ghost of my dad being my reflection isn’t *that* bad”

[thefandomcassandra]

The best part about writing emotionally constipated characters actively speak about their emotions with another emotionally constipated character is that the entire conversation smacks of tension and pain and unsaid things and it's delicious.

[ame-exe]

Game: Edgeworth is incredibly touched by the way Maya stood up for him during his trial to ensure they could buy time and prove his innocence, even though she has little reason to do so because of the way he had been treating her up until that point. Gumshoe describes his reaction with “He was so moved I saw his lip trembling”

Anime showing Edgeworth’s reaction:

[divinish-comedy]

maybe I'm reading too much into it but I do like how Aura's logic behind choosing Miles as prosecutor changes with the revelation that you're actually defending Athena, not Simon. when you think you're defending Simon, Aura deciding that Miles should be the prosecutor makes sense because she knows that he's on Simon's side and wants him to be innocent. when the twist that Athena is actually the one on trial happens, it becomes much more sinister. of course the justification of "she was just a little kid" means nothing to Edgeworth, and you should know why, Phoenix. Aura has to know this too. Edgeworth doesn't hesitate and he doesn't sugarcoat because it was hesitation- and a desire to hide from the truth- that messed him up so badly in the first place. He's probably genuinely trying to help Athena, in a messed up way, but he's failing to recognize how their circumstances are different. Aura chooses Miles because she knows he can empathize with Athena and she knows that, because of that empathy, he will show her no mercy.

[inbarfink]

So the AA Fandom has no shortage of jokes about how our favorite Anime Laywers generally prioritize stuff like the Power of Friendship above more mundane concerns like 'getting paid for doing their job' but...seriously now, how often do they actually get paid for lawyering?

Well, welcome to...

The Big Overview of WAA Lawyers and Actually Getting Paid!!

The vast majority of AA Cases do not discuss payments for legal services explictly, so I will be Ranking how probable I feel it is the Lawyers got Paid. With a 0 standing for 'explictly and unambigiously did not get paid' and 1 standing for 'explictly and unambigiously did get paid'

The First Turnabout

That's an easy one, it is actually explicitly mentioned that no, Larry did not pay Phoenix for his services as a Lawyer.

And so, my first trial came to a close. Larry slapped me on the back and said, "Gee, Nick, it's good to have friends!" But I'm pretty sure he's not going to pay us. Unless you count the clock he gave Mia.

Which is brought up again months later during 'Turnabout Goodbyes'

Butz: Whoa… Nick. S-so, is that why you helped me out for free? Phoenix: Uh… yes. I helped you because I believed in you. (Except I don't remember saying I'd do it for free…)

So Phoenix expected and wanted to get paid, but he’s just, like, not assertive enough to get his money off Larry. And thus a long legacy of Not Getting Money was born!

Probability of Getting Paid: 0

Turnabout Sisters

Okay, so the subject of money does not come up directly in ‘Turnabout Sisters’ but like… Maya does not seem to have a lot of liquid funds on her at this point. For most of the games she generally relays on Phoenix to pay for things for her. At best right now she is semi-dependent on Morgan for cash - and considering her motivations, she probably came out with some excuse like ‘oooh Mystic Maya must prove her independence in such a dire situation or something, the whole Fey Family is broke we can’t afford to give you any more money I feel so bad ooooh’.

So I think if Phoenix got paid for defending her that was mostly a token symbolic gesture of gratitude more than actually anything that’ll help him pay the rent. And obviously Phoenix wouldn’t gain anything if he paid himself for that second trial of the case lol

Probability of Getting Paid: 0.1

Turnabout Samurai

Okay, so this is the first case where I think it is more likely than not Phoenix Actually Got Paid. There’s nothing textual, but I think with the implications of Phoenix starting the case fretting over how to pay the rent:

Phoenix: A month has passed since my trial. Mia's murder was the talk of the town for some time… But no one paid any attention to the Wright & Co. Law Offices… How am I going to pay the rent this month? Maya: It'll be okay. I'm sure some big client is just around the corner! Phoenix: Hmph.

And THEN his new Client is Will Powers who is:

a fairly sucessful actor whose life and career seems to be unglamorous but financially stable.

the first cilent Phoenix has who isn't a friend, a relative-of-a-friend or Literally Himself

generally just a really nice and wholesome guy.

It seems pretty likely to me that Phoenix and Maya got paid for this one!

Probability of Getting Paid: 0.8

Turnabout Goodbyes

OKAY so, I've seen folks say that Phoenix would've probably done this for free cause he sees this whole thing as repaying a debt for Being Nice to Him in Fourth Grade because as we all know, Phoenix is a Certified Ridiculous Human Being.

Phoenix: This is my chance to finally pay you back. Maya: Pay him back…? Edgeworth: Pay me back? For what? I don't remember ever doing anything for you. Phoenix: Never mind… I guess you don't really need to know.

Buuuuut... Larry at the time was also part of that Class Trial Bestie Pact and Phoenix did expect him to pay I mean Larry is not the Love of His Life but still.

And more important, this case ALSO established that Miles has a problem expressing gratitude and overcompensate using financial gifts.

Phoenix: Thank you. Oh, wait! Umm… I was wondering, how much is bail going to be? Gumshoe: Don't worry about that. Mr. Edgeworth is posting the whole amount. Phoenix: What? Edgeworth…? Gumshoe: Didn't I tell you? He's grateful to her for what she did. Alright, pal. Well don't forget to go pick her up, okay? Phoenix: (Hmm… Maybe I can get Edgeworth to pay this month's rent, too…)

So I feel, like, regardless of what Phoenix wanted - at the end of this trial - Miles IS going to make sure he is GETTING PAID. Dude was probably shoving checks into his mailbox like a full month after the trial concluded.

Probability of Getting Paid: 0.9

Rise from the Ashes

So... the person who initially hires Phoenix to the case is Ema Skye, a 16 year old girl whose main funds are her allowance. And Phoenix was kinda willfully ignoring his financial situation at the start and only took this case for sentimental reasons. (just more evidence that Miles was STILL sending him payments for 'Goodbyes' lol)

It's been two months since Maya left the office… Two months without a single trial. I've had offers… But none I took. That is… until the day that girl showed up.

However he does get 'formally requested' by her probably-well-off-considering-prosecutors-in-this-series older sister shortly thereafter.

Lana: … Mr. Wright? Phoenix: Y-yes? Lana: I believe our discussion here is ended. The rest… I leave to you. Phoenix: …! Um… you mean, you're requesting my services as your defense? Lana: Don't lose any sleep over it. Your client has confessed, after all. The case is over. Phoenix: Right… I'll do what I can to get to the bottom of this. Lana: …

And after a very long and harrowing journey of being in-conflict with his own client, Lana did end up being very grateful for what he did. And again, this case espacially emphasizes that 'prosecutors make the big bucks' - so she had both the means and will to pay him.

Probability of Getting Paid: 0.6

The Lost Turnabout

Alrighty, so, Maggey is generally a nice girl and also a fangirl of Phoenix Wright and that gives her an incentive to support him financially...

Actually, I really love to watch court proceedings, and I always root for you to win! When I'm off duty, I like to come here and…

But with how unlucky she is, that might imply that she could have Money Troubles. Although on the other hand she at least has a stable job at the moment... But on the other OTHER hand she does mention how all the other lawyers 'laughed her off'

Just when I thought all hope was lost; when all the other lawyers had laughed me off… "Leave it to me!" you said! You! The one and only Phoenix Wright came to save the day! And just like that, I was moved to tears, sir! I'll never forget what you're doing for me, EVER!

Which usually I wouldn't note as a financial thing. Usually when an AA Defendant is like 'oooh I have no one else to turn too, all the other lawyers turned me down......" this is because the case is considered too impossible to win or Unbearably Wacky (or some sort of conspiracy like with Maya in 'Sisters'). But, like, this is a Tutorial Case. Phoenix won that one with Fucking Amnesia. The 'impossibility' of the case was not the issue, so, yeah, it might legitimately be the money?

Probability of Getting Paid: 0.4

Reunion, and Turnabout

It's Maya Murder Trial Time Again! Pretty much the same as before with the two added factors being:

Maya is now officially employed in the Wright & Co. Law Offices during the duration of the trial.

AFTER the Trial, when Morgan is like, in jail - Maya might have a bit more acess to her family funds. Although they are established to Not Be Doing Well Financially in general....

A piece of cloth with a ton of finely-written characters jammed onto it. Probably esoteric knowledge only mediums should know. …Hmm, let's see… Here's one in English… It says… "100 Ways to Save Money". … Being a medium sounds like a rough way of life…

I think all in all these kinda even out to the same Chances of Getting Paid at last time??

Probability of Getting Paid: 0.1

Turnabout Big Top

So if you ever start discussing how pointless the AA 'middle cases' are - just remember this one crucial detail; they are the most reliable way Phoenix Wright gets food on his plate! We once again have a stranger (that Phoenix won't feel obligated to defend for free) that is very explictly Fabulously Wealthy.

He's not as nicey-nice as Will Powers is but I feel like paying Phoenix's legal fees is not something Max will bet an eye at.

Phoenix: It's a table for guests… There are some papers scattered on top. Maya: Ah! Look at this! Max's salary is written on this piece of paper. YIKES! Phoenix: W-What is it? Maya: I didn't know a magician… This salary is incredible! Phoenix: (She looks like she's about ready to pass out from shock…) How much is it!? How much is it!? T-T-THAT MUCH!? Maya: Incredible, huh? Phoenix: You can say that again.

Probability of Getting Paid: 0.7

Farewell, My Turnabout

Okay so this is the Big One. This one’s a really complicated one to determine.

Let’s just get the first thing out of the way, the fact that Phoenix “”lost”” the case does not matter one way or another. Criminal Defense Lawyers, as a general rule, do not work on a Contingency Fee Basis. That means they are paid regardless of the result of the trial. So if this was a normal trial, Phoenix would probably be paid.

But this was not a normal trial, was it?

Phoenix was FORCED to work as a Defense Attorney due to a KIDNAPPER. And, like, my first instinct is ‘if you are already forcing someone to work via criminal means, why the hell would you also pay them??’ 

Buuuuut….. This is MY instinct, not the instinct of goddam Shelly De Killer. 

Since Shelly’s whole thing is being the Honorable Assassin, and he has some level of respect towards Phoenix as like a Fellow Professional. I can see him thinking maybe wanting Phoenix to get paid for the work he is Coercing Him To Do Under Threat of Murdering His Best Friend for the sake of Honor. 

But also also, Phoenix’s terms are not officially with De Killer, it’s with This Asshole!

And Matt Engarde is absolutely the kind of guy to casually take advantage of Phoenix’s frantic ‘please please just let me be your lawyer or my Friend is gonna Die!’ thing where, like, obviously getting paid is NOT gonna cross through Phoenix’s head atm in order to not pay/severely underpay the guy even though he can obviously afford it.

All in all, things are not looking good for this case’s probability, which is a shame considering how it ends.

Powers: Um, anyway… So, who's paying for this lovely dinner party? Maya: As if you need to ask! Everyone say, "Thank you" to Nick! Phoenix: Huh? Gumshoe: Ah, yeah… I'm kinda at the point where I can't even buy instant noodles, pal. So I kinda already put your name on the bill.

Probability of Getting Paid: 0.3

Turnabout Memories

First time covering a Lawyer that’s not Phoenix!

Now, Mia’s client in this case is a college student who probably doesn't have tons of personal funds, and considering her own motivations for taking on the case she probably would’ve done it for free but…

At the time she was employed at the Grossberg Law Offices, and Phoenix hired just the office in general and then Mia took over the case just last night.

Grossberg: Still, you surprised me… What, with your earnest request last night… "Let me handle this case!" you suddenly said. And quite forcefully, too! Mia: I just found out yesterday. About the case, I mean.

So... really this is just the Vibes I get from the Grossberg Law Offices, being generally the more professional and by-the-book law offices compared to the utter chaotic energy of Wright and Co, that makes me assume that they usually reliably charge their clients and pay their lawyers.

There’s some evidence further down the line (which we’ll get to soon) that some of their lawyers do some pro-bono work - but I dunno if Phoenix’s case was extreme enough to necessitate that (I mean he might be a broke college student but his family would probably help him with the legal funds although that assumes they even exist) . So my assumption is that Mia probably did get paid. Probably?

Probability of Getting Paid: 0.75

The Stolen Turnabout

So, Ron DeLite used to really financially struggle to keep up with his wife’s shopaholic habits - but that seems to have stabilized ever since his ‘benefactor’ showed up. So I’d assume he still has some funds left to pay his lawyer. I mean I guess it won’t be totally implausible if Desiree did manage to blow through them all…. Or maybe being a a high-spending shopaholic means that she’d want to pay extravagantly for her lawyer as well?

Probability of Getting Paid: 0.7

Recipe for Turnabout

It’s Maggey again! And now she’s:

Closer to a friend, or at least a friend-of-friend. Rather than Just Another Client.

Is probably in a more dire financial state than before, on account of being unemployed and also in jail for the last two months.

Also being a waitress isn’t that prestigious a job anyways 

And if anyone is gonna help her cover her legal fees it could only be Gumshoe which… does not bode well to anyone involved!

Pissed at Phoenix cause it took her some time to realize that no, that guy who got her found guilty two months ago is not him

So basically everything that changed since her last trial makes it less likely that Phoenix charged for his legal services. I'm sure she'd try her best by the end, but Phoenix might just wave it off to save everyone a headache.

Probability of Getting Paid: 0.3

Turnabout Beginnings

So first things first I want to reiterate that Criminal Defense Attorneys generally get paid regardless of if they ‘win’ and while I couldn’t find any concrete statements about the matter - I believe they get paid even if their clients die mid-trial??? I mean, the legal fees just get added to their posthumous debts? So the lawyer would hypothetically be able to claim their due payment from the deceased’s remaining funds and possessions. If they wanted to, that is…

Cause, well, this is why I said the Grossberg Law Offices might do some pro-bono cases. Terry Fawles was, like, a part-time tutor who has been incarcerated for the last five years. If he has any family or friends outside that could help him with his legal fees, he never mentions them. 

So I’m really not sure if he bought Mia services or if she volunteered to do this pro-bono after hearing he had no options for legal representations out of concern for, like, prisoners rights. 

And even if he was supposed to pay Mia for her service, after the grim ending of the case - I’m not sure if she would’ve even tried to pursue getting her legal fees from Fawles’ posthumously/from his next of kin. From how deeply traumatized she was by that trial, I think that would’ve only made her feel worse about the whole situation. 

Probability of Getting Paid: 0.05

Bridge to the Turnabout

Iris is a nun from a small temple that is mentioned to not-be-doing-so-hot (cause it’s tied with the Kurain Channeling Technique and it’s been on a downturn since DL-6), but she does have at least enough personal funds to have her own cell-phone and occasionally go into town. So it’s not a lot, but I think it’s enough to get Phoenix at least a a symbolic token-of-gratitude payment.

Also, it might be possible Phoenix will wave off the fees due to the Personal Connection to the case. You know, he was doing this primarily to Uncover the Truth and get some personal closure for the Dahlia mess.... Or maybe not, cause he did still get paid (or tried to get paid, or forced to get paid) to save his two Fourth-Grade-Life-Debt Childhood Best Friends in court?

(And I do mean just Phoenix, Miles probably would never charge for his services as ‘acting defense attorney’, we don’t need that farce to get any farcier)

Probability of Getting Paid: 0.3

Turnabout Trump

Now this is a complicated one, let us list the factors here one-by-one:

1. As per Apollo’s comment in the next episode, the Gavin Law Offices probably operated strictly quid pro quo.

(Good-bye, quid pro quo. Hello pro bono. sigh)

2. Phoenix is supposedly friends with the boss of the Agency. And in reality, Kritoph Gavin has a very VERY vested interest in making sure the trial goes According to Plan. Incentivising him to at least give Phoenix a discount.

3. Phoenix is also not doing that great financially right now. 

4. Oh right, that entire law agency disbanded once the boss got arrested at the end of the trial!

…Speaking of which, I may be out of a job. I work for Gavin Law Offices, after all. (I still can't believe I just saw Mr. Gavin get led away in handcuffs…)

I think it is most likely that Phoenix got some sort of “”Friend”” Discount from Kristoph. But I really don’t know what happens if an entire law firm gets disbanded right after the trial cause the owner got arrested as a result of it. It probably depends on whether Phoenix was in agreement with the Gavin Law Offices who then assigned Apollo on the case or if Phoenix had an agreement with Apollo directly.

Probability of Getting Paid: 0.5

Turnabout Corner

Oh hey, look! Another rare case of an Ace Attorney that actually discusses the issue of money directly!

Well, I mean we know how much Apollo got paid for solving the case of Phoenix’s accident and Trucy’s panties (nothing) and for solving Eldoon’s Noodle Cart Theft (a free bowl of ramen). We don’t see them directly discuss the subject of payment regarding Apollo’s Actual Job…

Apollo: Your request… let me guess, something's been stolen? Alita: Um, your flyer… It says "now defending" so I thought… Apollo: Whaaaat!? You mean, you mean you want me to defend you? Me? Trucy: Maybe you can tell us what happened? Were you hit by a car? Did someone steal your stand? Or your panties? Alita: No! No… I'm not the client, actually. The client would be my… well, my fiancé, I suppose you'd call him. Apollo: Fiancé…? What happened to him, then? Alita: He was arrested this morning. The charge… was murder.

But as he was complaining before about not only being pigeonholed as some sort of a detective, but also not getting paid for anything…

Um… I was wondering when I get paid? We solved the case of your accident, and um, found a missing article of clothing.

And then getting this job and being so happy about it...

Trucy: Polly! You look as happy as a clam in its shell. Apollo: For a lawyer this is it, the place where the battle begins!

Implies that He’s Getting Paid - just as much as with Phoenix’s rent stuff in ‘Turnabout Samurai’ if not more. 

Also, I don’t think the fact that the person who hired him wanted him to fail and is now going to prison is a factor here.

As I already mentioned, Defense Attorneys get paid regardless of the outcome of a trial and logically that would apply both when they lose and when they win. Plus, I am pretty sure Alita filed her request officially through Wocky’s name or the Kitaki family in general and they were obviously very grateful for what Apollo did, and they had both the wins and wills to pay him.

So let’s give a big round of applause for Apollo Justice, the WAA Lawyer most likely to get paid!

Probability of Getting Paid: 0.99

Turnabout Serenade

These kind of showbiz-focused Middle Cases are generally pretty good for Getting Paid Probabilities, but this case is a bit more complicated.

Cause the plot of this case hinges on Machi being so desperate for money that he was willing to risk death via cocoon smuggling,

Situation… I cannot explain. But money. I needed. Very much money.

That doesn’t necessarily mean he was unable to afford a lawyer - without details of why exactly he needed that Sweet, Sweet Cocoon Money we can’t be sure.  But it’s plausible that hiring Apollo was not out of his price range but he was desperate for something far more expensive. 

Considering his young age and… you know, until the final day of the trial he pretended to not understand a word of English, it’s also possible hiring Apollo was a matter handled by Lamirior and/or the duo’s agency. Both of which will probably feel committed to Actually Paying, each from their own angle. 

Probability of Getting Paid: 0.7

Turnabout Succession

Now, HERE’S a complicated one! 

Going generally over the usual stuff, Vera is a pretty nice person and she’s clearly grateful for what Apollo and Trucy did for her. And while the Misham Family was driven into forgeries by financial desperation, at the present-time they seem stable enough that Vera could at least afford the rates of the WAA. If this was just another case, it’ll get like a solid 0.7 at minimum. Pretty typical stuff by now.

But this isn’t just one more ordinary case. This a weird sort of ‘Test Trial’ for the Jurist System with every factor - including the Defendant and the Attorney - arranged by Phoenix’s weird little committee.

Well, for one, I'll be chair of the Jurist System Simulated Court Committee. The chair constructs the ideal situation… choosing the case, the jurist candidates… …even the judge and the courtroom.

Apollo: So… what kind of case is the trial simulation about? Phoenix: Well, since it is the first run through of a new system, I wanted something simple. Trucy: Good thinking! No sense wearing yourself out on something too serious! Phoenix: True. The case is a murder. Apollo: That's not simple at all!! Trucy: By "simple", did you mean that the defendant is… Phoenix: …Guilty. Yes. Most likely. …So, good luck, Apollo. Apollo: Um… with what? Phoenix: With the trial tomorrow. You're defending, of course. Recall that I said it had something to do with you.

So I guess the question here, did Phoenix basically make Vera officially hire Apollo? Did the committee hire Apollo and they’re the one paying him? Is this another case of Phoenix trolling Apollo into doing Free Volunteer Work for him?

Honestly I wouldn’t put that past the AA4 version of Phoenix..............but also if he did that I doubt he would’ve missed a chance to crack a joke at Apollo’s expense about that. 

...You know, I started this thread of thought with the thought I’m arguing for a lower Getting Paid score for this case but I think I just talked myself into increasing the probability.

Probability of Getting Paid: 0.8

Also bonus round: THE TRIAL OF SHADI ENIGMAR!

Zero fucking chances Phoenix got paid on this one. HIS CLIENT DISAPPEARED IN THE MIDDLE OF THE COURT PROCEEDING! And even if Phoenix gets paid before a trial is concluded (unlikely, since he didn’t know Larry wasn’t paying him until after the case was closed), he was his attorney for like half-a-day before he disappeared so wouldn’t have much of a chance either way.  And considering Zak’s character (and how he also tried to sabotage Phoenix’s current Poker-based career seven years after that), I doubt he put that much thought into Phoenix and his financial considerations to give him a down payment in case he had to to do his disappearnce act or whatever. The only thing Zak left Phoenix with when he left was his goddam abandoned child and ONE LESS BADGE!

So I think this case deserves a very special score!

Probability of Getting Paid: -1

Turnabout Countdown

It’s time for Athena’s first case! Or second case, depending on how you look at it.

Now, one of the major ways that Dual Destinies is gonna shake this Deep Serious Analysis up is that before we had, like, one Active Full-Time Lawyer at any time (maybe with a backup lawyer for Flashback Cases), and we now have Three Different Lawyers actively working together on the same cases. My main concern is primarily not which WAA Lawyers get paid for these cases, but IF any of them got paid at all. Still, shenanigans of cases changing hands officially and unofficially are gonna play a factor in my analysis as well.

And it’s here right from the start! We once again have a Lawyer defending their bestest friend in the whole world, and while some people’s instincts might suggest that means that Defense was for free, well… First things first, we already established Precedence for that back in the first trial of the first game with Larry (not for Lawyers getting paid by their friends, but at least expecting payment) and Juniper’s family is probably doing Just Fine considering she attends this super-fancy-pant prestigious Lawyer High School - so she would want to financially support Athena I would think.

And ALSO, Juniper technically didn’t hire Athena, Apollo was the one supposed to defend Junie in court at first. And although Juniper is… growing closer to Apollo at this point in canon, I don't think it's quite the ‘defend me in court for Free’ point of their relationship, compared to where Juniper and Athena are at. So this is just, like, one extra point to the Final Score!

Probability of Getting Paid: 0.7

The Monstrous Turnabout

So in this episode, we actually have two different jobs we need to make sure if Apollo actually got paid for. We have the actual criminal defense case, and we also have Babysitting Trucy.

Trucy: Oh, we'd better hurry. Doesn't look Daddy's going to make it, so let's get going. Apollo: Huh? Where are we going? What about the job he mentioned? Trucy: This IS the job, Polly! You're supposed to keep me company today! Now, come on! Apollo: Another day of not being a lawyer. Should've seen this coming. Trucy: Well, this is the "Wright ANYTHING Agency," y'know. And there's no law-related work at the moment, so… Apollo: (Tell me again why I chose to "work" here?) Where is Mr. Wright, anyway?

That being said, Phoenix might still be a bit of a troll but the WAA is doing a lot better financially now that Trucy has those Sweet Gramarye rights and he’s not quite as mean to Apollo as he was back in Hobomode. So I get a feeling that even with this little runaround, Apollo is probably at least getting paid for chaperoning Trucy around?? Probably?

The actual case is actually a lot more clear cut. It is directly mentioned that Damian Tenma could probably afford lawyers much more prestigious than the WAA, it’s just a matter of the WAA being the only ones crazy enough to take on this ‘doomed’ case. 

Trucy: Apollo! Maybe this is your chance. Apollo: Chance for what? Trucy: To do the right thing and defend Jinxie's dad in court! Apollo: Who, me? Wouldn't a man like Mayor Tenma have access to more experienced lawyers? Jinxie: Umm… You wanna know what the detectives said? They doubted there was a lawyer who could get a not-guilty verdict in this one.

And with Mayor Tenma’s personality being based around being almost overly-generous and grateful…

Tenma: How… incredibly… RUDE! Apollo: Umm, sorry. Did I do something to offend you? Tenma: A visitor when all others shun me like a common criminal! And here I am with nothing to offer! I am the epitome of rude! Apollo: (………Wait, so he wasn't mad at me?)

I feel like it is almost a certainty that Apollo and Athena did get paid for this case! 

Probability of Getting Paid: 0.85

Turnabout Academy

Okay so, it’s Junie again! Or Junie for the first time depending on how you look at it!

So all of the points I already brought up about Juniper from ‘Countdown’ still apply (save for the stuff about Apollo, of course) but ALSO this is right when Athena and Juniper reunited and their whole emotional arc in this case is about Athena feeling Juniper is being Uncharacteristically Cold and Distant towards her. So defending her on a Friend Discount would be a bit strange at this point. Maybe I can see Athena trying to insist she’d do it for free but Juniper refused?

Although I think that IS a bit weird that they had this big whole scene with Professor ScaryStatue taking over Juniper’s case and the issue of payment doesn’t even come up in passing. I mean, yes obviously, the issues of Trust and Truth and Aristotle Means being Sus as Fuck are the important things in this narrative but I’m suprised there’s not even a mention in passing. Like Means accusing Athena and Apollo of wanting this case back for the Money but they refute him???

Probability of Getting Paid: 0.8

The Cosmic Turnabout

Okay, look, I know I keep bringing up the Larry Precedence but it really IS quite relevant. If Actual Overly-Sentimental Human Disaster Phoenix Wright tried to charge a rate for his childhood best friend who was drifting through life doing weird odd jobs at that time. - Then Apollo, who is generally more practical minded, is probably going to charge a rate for his older acquaintance with the stable Astronaut Job. And while Solomon is a bit of a Space Larry, I don’t think he’d try and avoid the payment in quite the same way. Probably.

Probability of Getting Paid: 0.7

Turnabout for Tomorrow

This trial has Phoenix defending one of his own employees in a trial forced on by a hostage situation. I feel silly even extending this paragraph any longer. 

Probability of Getting Paid: 0.01

Turnabout Reclaimed

First things first, yes, an Orca cannot pay for an attorney - but I assume that the person who hired Phoenix is officially Sasha Buckler. Who IS a human being with her own funds capable of hiring a lawyer. Especially as we know that other lawyers turned her down specifically because her case is ridiculous (and not for financial reasons). 

Phoenix: What's the real reason you picked me, Sasha? Buckler: …Well, to be honest, I asked a whole slew of lawyers, but they all refused. They said stuff like, "There's no merit to taking your case," or "I'm not sure I can help." They're all as cruel as sharks, with hearts punier than whitebait!

She does mention doing a performance as thanks at the ending of the trial but that’s probably no replacement for Actual Money.

But I think most notable for our analysis about this case, is not actually any of the Orca stuff - it’s this exchange right here.

Blackquill: Today, the orca. Tomorrow, Sasha Buckler. You intend to save them both? Hmph. You say you "believe" in your clients, but isn't money really your true motivation? Why not admit you're only doing this for your own benefit? I could understand that much more readily than your empty, righteous talk. Athena: Our own benefit?! That's not why we're doing it! Phoenix: Now, Athena. Try not to let him get to you.

Yet another rare case of the game Acknowledging Lawyers Are Paid As a General Rule! And notably, when Phoenix and Athena deny it, they don’t deny the fact that they are getting paid - just that it’s not why they’re doing this. This is not exactly an explicit confirmation of Getting Paid to get the score up to a full 1, but it’s probably as close as we’re gonna get. 

Probability of Getting Paid: 0.95

The Foreign Turnabout

Okay, so Phoenix basically just bursted into the Courtroom and bluffed his way onto the empty defense bench despite the protests of his own so-called Client. Said client also only started unlearning his Defense-Attorney-Hate during that same trial. And is ALSO a tiny little child who has to work part time as a tour-guide to make end’s meet. I highly doubt Phoenix asked for anything more than, like, a very token rate or maybe a discount on his next tour. 

Probability of Getting Paid: 0.1

The Magical Turnabout

Considering how this case has a WAA Lawyer defending the actual CEO of the WAA, I highly doubt the WAA got any money from it. But maybe Trucy could give him some of her personal funds as a token of gratitude?

Probability of Getting Paid: 0.2

The Rite of Turnabout

It’s MAYA TIME again! And while some consideration has to go to her bond with Phoenix or the possibility of some sort of Frequent Accused card the WAA issued for her - the fact that she is not currently a Coworker at the law office and has been an Actual Independent Adult for quite some time now means it is actually a lot more likely she’s able to pay Phoenix now than in any case in the Original Trilogy!

Probability of Getting Paid: 0.5

Turnabout Storyteller

This one’s a pretty average case. The Defendant is not a total stranger, but he is more of a friend-of-a-friend (and Simon was originally planning to get Apollo or Phoenix into the courtroom so the connection was even more distant when he contacted the WAA). He seems to be doing alright financially with his own noodle business, and he’s a pretty alright kinda guy. The only possible concern is that he’s too totally slushed to remember he’s supposed to pay his attorney. But then again, Simon might be ‘officially’ the one who hired the lawyer for the case.

Probability of Getting Paid: 0.6

Turnabout Revolution

It’s time for the THREE CASES IN ONE SPECIAL!! Because we don’t just need to consider Dhurke’s trial, I think it’s only appropriate that we take into account both Apollo and Phoenix’s side of the civil case. They are both WAA Lawyers, after all.

On Apollo’s side, he is defending Datz Are'bal, an escaped prisoner/wanted revolutionary criminal in his own country hiding away in an abandoned building and making homemade lizard skewers for food- but Datz did apparently enter Japanifornia legally via legitimate means.

Apollo: What are the charges this time? Datz: Unauthorized entry, or something like that. They think I'm an illegal alien! And I can't prove otherwise ‘cause I lost my passport! Trucy: Is there any way they'd let you go? Datz: Not without my passport… If only I had it! Dhurke, AJ! You gotta find my passport! Apollo: …All right, we'll find it. (One more thing to add to our to-do list. Now, where might Datz's passport be?)

So he presumably has some sort of funds to pay Apollo for his legal services, at least a little bit. 

And with him being Dhurke’s best friend and knowing that he also struggled financially to make end’s meet as a defense attorney at first - I would like to think that’ll incentivise him to support Apollo financially if he can?

Probability of Getting Paid: 0.7

Meanwhile on Phoenix’s side, while Phoenix uses the word ‘hire’ when talking about working for Atishon. Phoenix was once again coerced via kidnapping into the position of attorney. 

And THIS time, there is no Assassin with a Code of Honor who might consider paying Phoenix a fair rate. Both Atishon and his ‘benefactor’ are sleazeballs who would not pay Phoenix a dime if they can get away with it. Plus, with this being a civil case, there might actually be a Contingency Basis going on when Phoenix basically quit and then they lose.

Probability of Getting Paid: 0.001

And finally, the grand event of this case - the Trial of Dhurke! 

So… Can a summoned undead spirit pay for an attorney? I suppose it’s probably easier in Khura'in than in other places. And it’ll mostly work the same as if the client died before the case finished, right? It’ll be considered a debt to be carried by their next of kin. Who in this case will be Nahyuta… but also maybe Apollo? Still, considering all of Dhurke’s living family ranges between ‘wealthy and well-respected’ and ‘Literal Royalty’ - I’m going to assume they’d be more than happy then to pay their Weird Brother for his help. 

Probability of Getting Paid: 0.75

Turnabout Time Traveler

And here we are! The last case, and a relatively straightforward one at that - at least compared to the last one lol!

Ellen herself does not have many funds as a housemaid, it seems - but since she literally just married one of the richest inventors in the world, I assume her husband is gonna cover the legal fees. The WAA Legal Team and Also Edgeworth and Ema also got an invite to the Wedding but I assume this is not instead of actual payment?

That is, of course, unless it’s technically Larry who hired Phoenix actually.

Then he’s never getting the goddam money he deserves for his labor.

Probability of Getting Paid: 0.7

Average Probability Score for All Cases (not counting the Zak Bonus Round): 0.51721875

So what have we learned today? I think that while the WAA’s reputation for basically giving away legal services for free is not entirely unearned, it is perhaps somewhat exaggerated. While there’s certainly a lot of Shennanigans and their rates are probably not high (especially not for people they know), they still get paid for a decent amount of high-profile cases. I mean, this Getting Paid Probability Score is over the 50% mark at least....

And… the odd thing is that the First Turnabout really is the only time the subject of the lawyer getting paid is really brought up directly. I get that it might, y’know, ruin the Drama if we acknowledge that our Brave Heroes are getting paid to save people from being convicted of a crime they didn’t commit - or on the other hand of the equation, that they should get paid cause They Need Money to Live. But still…

Is the fact that the only time payment is brought up directly is when Larry isn’t paying Phoenix a bad sign for the general financial situation of our Anime Lawyers? Or is it actually a good sign? Like, that they only mention Larry not paying implying that every time it is not mentioned that means the client did pay them?

[jotunvali02]

Playing Turnabout Goodbyes, last part

"The second bullet was never found."

Ah-ah-ah. No, no, baby.

"Tsk, tsk" as Von Karma would say.

FEE-FEE has the second bullet. It's the FIRST one that's cleverly hidden in front of everyone.

"Sorry, Maya. I was wrong."

OMFG... are you back at being stupid, even in court??

"Maybe the bullet HIT the murderer?"

Yeaaaaaah!! Congrats for Fee-Fee who needed again the intervention of a dead woman to help him figure shit out! 🥳

"Hey Nick. Remember what Grossberg said about Von Karma and his vacation shit?"

Maya, Maya... did you just find the culprit again??

My God, YOU should be a defense attorney! YOU deserve that fucking badge! Take it and scream "OBJECTION! I am the defense now!"

"I know Von Karma. Perhaps too well." My baby 😭💔

and here comes the metal detector, gracefully lent by Daddy Gumshoe!

"Mister Von Karma, get NAKED bitch!"

omg, that loud BEEP must have frozen Edgey's heart and all of his blood vessels.💔💔💔

"Who wouldv'e thought you'd dig your own grave trying to convict Edgeworth?" = "You touch my senpai, I destroy you, bitch."😊 #yanderefeefee

What kind of reaction must one have when the man you literally saw as a father for 15 years proudly admits he is the one who killed your real father and screams that he'll "bury you"?

After he managed to convince you a few minutes earlier that you had murdered your own father?

Anyone would have burst in screaming tears.

"It's all just a good memory"??? Maya, the FUCK??? did you forget-?? Nevermind.

"Larry? What happened now?" My thoughts exactly!! X)

"Wright, there are $38 in that enveloppe." "Yeah, so?" Omffffg,

PHOENIIIIIIIX !!!!

"Edgeworth?" "Hmm?" "I love you, baby." *kiss* "I'll murder Larry and I'll come back."😘

"Where does that leave me? I've become a defense attorney because of what you two did!!"

Wrong! Stop blaming others for your whimsy, shitty decisions, Feenie. It's not their fault if you're a lonely, emotionally-dependent and obesessive psychopath.

Oh, and Edgey and Larry agree with me!

"If I had known, I'd become a prosecutor!" Hmm, an AU prosecutor Fee-Fee, hey?🤔

"Same for me, only the other way around..." No, no, baby.😢 Don't be sad. "If I had known the truth, maybe I might have become a defense attorney." My baby!!😭😭😭

Feenie, hug him!! WTF are you waiting for??

And stop that fucking happy tune when my baby is obviously miserable inside!!!!

"Want to switch, Wright?"

Yes!! YES!!! Follow your dreams, baby!! 😭

Aaah?? Fee-Fee didn't answer!!!! 👀👀👀

Wai-wai-wait!! So while everyone was partying and drinking their ass off, Miles was still in detention? All alone?? More than likely crying and being sad and crushed inside??

"I couldn't help you. I was useless."

Shut up, Maya! THAT'S NOT TRUE!! You helped and you nailed it more than Phoenix!!

Yeah, not just with the bullet, Feenie. SHE also suggested out of the blue Von Karma might be the murderer while you had no clue he might be!

*gasp*?? Edgey got a hug from Daddy Gumshoe?😭 (at least, I fucking hope so! that's the least he needs!!!)

Huh? No trial for two months??

WTF did you do during that whole time, Phoenix? And just how did you pay your rents? Yeah, rentS, I suppose the Wright & Co offices aren't free to use!

*gasp*! I hope for your ass you spent them visiting and comforting your boyfriend! (in exchange for the paying of your rents, maybe? like you wanted?)

Also, when 9 years-old Miles felt unconscious, the two adults with him felt unsconcious too? Like, all the three of them, at the same time??

Either baby Miles had a prodigious endurance or the two adults with him were exceptionnally weak-bodied.

Or Takumi didn't think about sth basic as that so that Gregory's murder happens easily and smoothly. Cause bitch, HOW the fuck Yogi couldn't have recognized Von Karma then and why wouldn't have Gregory tried to defend himself? And HOW couldn't they have heard Von Karma screaming?

I've just realized that whole story of Greg's murder doesn't make any sense from the begining!

[helicxx]

wrightworth pt 2

back again with another wrightworth analysis!!!!! (this time with proper grammar??!!) ill only be discussing events from the first game in this, so SPOILER WARNING FOR PWAA!!

Throughout the trilogy, Miles and Phoenix's relationship is a mix of both rivalry and friendship, due to their positions of being both opposing lawyers and childhood friends. Edgeworth, though initially appearing as an antagonist, he later became an ally in the cases. This development was likely due to the amount of character development that he had gone through, courtesy of Phoenix.

We clearly see in Turnabout Sisters (the first case in which we see Edgeworth) that Edgeworth is very cold and harsh, likely due to the influences of Von Karma from his childhood.

To add on to this fact, during Turnabout Samurai, we're met with the unnecessary feelings line. Though the context is Edgeworth attempting to push Phoenix out of his life, it's painfully clear that he doesn't have the resolve to be able to do so.

And now, the grand finale. Turnabout Goodbyes. This case is what seems like the turning point of the Wrightworth dynamic, because it starts out with Phoenix straight up refusing to believe that Edgeworth killed anybody. Of course, we have Edgeworth refusing to let Phoenix defend him, due to his pride. When Phoenix won however, we get to see Edgeworth truly happy for the first time.

To add on to this, the reason why the Edgeworth's suicide letter had affected Phoenix so much was because even after he had fought so so hard to get him a not guilty, he still chose to skedaddle. so woohoo!! a lot of miscommunication, definitely some rough patches that need to be worked out. but ykkk, wrightworth is still a w pairing with a great dynamic!!!

[tudirkulosis]

"i'm your man" belongs to edgeworth. "i'm your man" is a perfect representation of edgeworth's reflection on the turnabout goodbyes case. i'm your man is the perfect illustration of edgeworth's feelings both about himself and phoenix at the end of aa1. just please hear me out.

without further ado here is my somewhat unhinged analysis of edgeworth's mind in between turnabout goodbyes and rise from the ashes using lyrics from mitski's new song "i'm your man" as reference.

"you're an angel and i'm a dog"

edgeworth is obviously in a very bad place mentally after being arrested. he has to relive and reevaluate the source of his trauma on top of having everyone who looked up to him / liked him turn on him. but like a guardian angel, phoenix comes down to help him when no one else will. he, as edgeworth will repeatedly remind us in-game, "saved him." but why, he thinks, would an angel like phoenix care to save something so insignificant as a dog like him?

"or you are a dog and i'm your man"

now we flip the narrative... kind of. or rather recontextualize it. phoenix wright is completely devoted to miles edgeworth in the same way that one might compare a dog to its man. "man's best friend" is the embodiment of phoenix wright, it doesnt matter that they didn't talk for so many years and it doesn't matter that when they did reconnect in court there was some initial animosity. the fact of the matter is that phoenix's utter dedication to edgeworth's wellbeing transcends time, like a loyal dog ready to give pure unconditional love.

"you believe me like a god"

going back to turnabout goodbyes, pretty much everyone has given up on edgeworth, including edgeworth. and yet, even when edgeworth was literally confessing to the murder of his father, phoenix still truly believes in edgeworth's innocence. phoenix's worship, his complete devotion to this man he hasn't spoken with in over 15 years, would seem absurd to any onlooker. hell, these men are rivals. ("right nick? rivals!") and yet, as if belonging to a religious fanatic, phoenix's faith in edgeworth never falters. this, to repeat my previous wording, further recontextualizes the first statement. edgeworth is a dog. he sees himself in an extremely negative light, completely undeserving of the label "god." nothing makes sense about phoenix. what redeeming qualities could miles edgeworth, fallen prosecutor and murderer, possibly have that such a divine (angelic) man like phoenix would put faith into him?

"i destroy you like i am"

it would be easy to say that this is about their battles in court but lets be fr. edgeworth was definitely not doing any destroying during his cases against phoenix. rather i think we can delve deeper into edgeworth's self-loathing and feelings of inadequacy.

would it be oversimplifying things to say that phoenix became a lawyer solely for edgeworth? no sure. obviously there were some other factors. but like... bffr. the main reason was undeniably edgeworth. this isn't debatable lol. and i think edgeworth, oblivious as he may be to literally anything else, knows this. he knows this and thinks it makes him a burden. he is not worth the stress, the work, the dedication, and especially not the love of phoenix wright. in somewhat of a self-aggrandizing manner, he thinks he's destroying phoenix's life by forcing him to spend so much time and effort saving him.

"i'm sorry i'm the one you love"

pretty self explanatory. edgeworth cannot possibly comprehend the fact that he is deserving of love. he is not in a position to accept phoenix's love, hell, he was not in a position to accept phoenix's help at the start of the trial—how could he possibly accept the love of an angel who treats his dog self like a god? (pretend that was profound or smth idk) edgeworth hasn't even fully wrapped his head around the full implications of his developing unnecessary feelings towards phoenix. there's no way—even though i think of them both sensed their romantic tension—that they could have ended up in any romantic situation at that point in their relationship. could they have been involved sexually at this point? maybe? i guess so? but romantic?? no way, they're both wayyyy too emotionally constipated for that shit.

"no one will ever love me like you again"

he's right. im kind of a broken record at this point but phoenix's dedication is simply too much for edgeworth at this time. there's just no way edgeworth can feel good about himself after everything he's done / thinks he's done to phoenix.

"so when you leave me i should die / i deserve it don't i"

i recently saw a post where someone said the reason miles didn't tell phoenix abt dl-6 initially was because he couldn't risk losing phoenix's trust. i mostly agree, but i think part of it was to protect phoenix and not cause any more work for him. edgeworth knows how deep dl-6 goes, how weird and convoluted it was; and i think he especially knows that he would feel even worse about himself if he threw such a heavy case onto phoenix. but phoenix is stubborn and miles knows this. once phoenix is set on saving him there's nothing more for him to do other than tell the truth. (or rather, what he perceives to be the truth.)

phoenix saves edgeworth and edgeworth is extremely grateful, but... at the same time he feels like he is only complicating things further between phoenix and himself. not that he would ever express any of this of course. i mean come on, this is aa1 edgeworth, we're getting cryptic gay one liners and that's it.

+ in regards to the whole "choosing death" thing, i think the seed was planted almost immediately after turnabout goodbyes and the events of rise from the ashes were just the catalyst for him to actually act on them. both cases involve edgeworth having an identity crisis; while phoenix just fucking existing in his vicinity lowkey started said crisis turnabout samurai is when we really see the relationship between them develope. (i don't think i have to say why *cough* "saddled with unnecessary... feelings" *cough cough* ) this is the beginning of edgeworth's growing trust, admiration, and eventual love for wright.

"i can feel it getting near / like flashlights coming down the way"

"it" is the truth. as phoenix picks away at the bonkers bullshit insanity of dl-6, he gets closer to discovering what miles is already suspecting, that miles killed gregory edgeworth. but miles values truth above all else and he's willing to risk a guilty verdict in favor of honesty.

i think another reason why he transparent from the beginning was because there was part of him that was projecting his old ways onto phoenix—if he withholds this testimony then phoenix can get another win. this is what he had his own witnesses do in previous trials. but wow! character development! and now edgeworth is trying to do the (w)right thing regardless of the outcome of the trial—he knows telling phoenix about killing gregory will completely fuck up phoenix's case but he needs to anyway because it's the moral thing to do.

but for the billionth time, phoenix has such complete faith in edgeworth anyway that it doesn't fucking matter if he full on admits to killing his dad. because "nuh uh, you're not the kinda guy who'd do that even accidentally"—phoenix. honey. you've only known miles for like a few months in elementary school + spoken like... what, twice in court? you barely fucking know this guy phoenix, and yet you're somehow fucking right and it it turns out he didn't even shoot his father after all? what the fuck parrot. what the fuck phoenix. he's so hopelessly gay for edgeworth like they're so insanely homosexual omfg bruh... idiot gayass lawyers

"one day you'll figure me out"

another double meaning. phoenix already has figured out the truth of the case but not the truth of edgeworth's feelings. edgeworth, having seen phoenix's remarkable ability to discover the truth, falsely assumes he will be able to know things about miles that he has no way of knowing. i think this is why he worded his "suicide note" the way he did. he didn't anticipate that phoenix would refuse to think about it altogether. this is the phoenix who after initially losing edgeworth 15 years ago dedicated so much of his time trying to find out what happened to edgeworth. so it was somewhat reasonable to assume phoenix would try to track him down again. but little did he know that phoenix's grief and heartbreak would overpower any possibility of him finding the truth on his own.

"i'll meet judgment by the hounds"

phoenix, the hound, phoenix, whose dedication to edgeworth borders on stupidity at times, whose love for edgeworth despite all his flaws is a main drive for his career and eventually most of his life...

edgeworth is torn between wanting to live up to phoenix's perception of him and wanting to prove phoenix wrong in his admiration. regardless, phoenix's judgement is at the crux of it all.

furthermore, the actual meaning of the lyric was in reference to being sent to hell. if we go with this interpretation hell could be read as edgeworth's mind in the detention center before the first trial. phoenix's assessment of edgeworth's circumstances and insistance on defending him even when no one else would is another example of his dog-like loyalty.

"people always gave me love / others were never to blame after all"

von karma was basically a second father to young miles. he took this orphan in, showed "compassion," raised him and trained him to be the prosecutor he is today... just so he could pettily watch miles' downfall. i think miles blames himself for letting himself be manipulated by von karma. even though his behavior was a symptom of the 15 years of abuse and manipulation, edgeworth thinks of his younger self as a disgusting reflection of von karma and feels like an awful man for achieving the fame/notoriety he had through von karma's tactics. like imposter syndrome. because he idolized von karma so blindly he thinks he is still somehow responsible for the events of both dl-6 and turnabout goodbyes.

"you believe me like a god / i betray you like a man"

at the end of the day, edgeworth is not a dog or a god. he is literally just some guy. he's human, flawed, emotional; logical, illogical; he's contradictory and complicated and so much more because to be human is to be confusing. to be human is to make mistakes. to edgeworth, this is all completely unacceptable. he can't be "just some guy" if he needs to be a god. especially because it betrays his perception of how phoenix perceives him.

((ik this isn't really supposed to be about rfta but it feels relevant and this is my post so smd i can do what i want) in rfta, when edgeworth wrote his note, he obviously knew how dramatic his diction was and i think there was a tiny part of him that predicted phoenix's real reaction to the letter, but he rationalized that thought away using the justifications i mentioned earlier. he betrayed phoenix by not staying in japanifornia and avoiding facing everything that was happening head on.)

tl;dr: phoenix loves edgeworth but edgeworth hates himself (shocker!!)

[trlvsn]

I hope you won’t mind elaborating, please ignore this message if it makes you uncomfortable, but I am terribly intrigued by the correlation between shipping narumitsu and having attachement issues, and I would love to hear your thoughts - either on the pattern you’ve noticed, or on why you think one would lead to the other? Sincerely, a sceptical of the idea that our fictional preferences reflect who we are (who also just happens to ship narumitsu lol) (this is all /lh and /genuinely interested btw my signature is meant to be tongue in cheek not passive-aggressive)

this doesn't make me uncomfortable at all! in fact, i'm happy to elaborate. i would, however, like to start this by saying i meant the case majority of nrmt shippers, not every single one, so if this doesn't apply to you - honestly, great news for your future and present relationships with people.

anyways. when i started reading narumitsu fanfiction, i noticed a pattern. people tend to make the characters pass the "i will find you and help you" role like a hot potato between the characters depending on the time of the events in the fanfic - if it's feenie or aa1 era, phoenix is the one who writes endless letters and seeks miles out, if it's aa3-aa4, edgeworth is the one who flies across the ocean to see wright or helps him financially and emotionally during the disbarment. each time, that borderline obsessive behavior gets romanticized and turns into the basic formula of "i'm in pain, closed off and not who i really am - let me help you despite your constant refusals - okay i'm better now. i love you also". i don't mean to say it's inherently bad to write stuff like that or that it makes the relationship toxic, i'm simply hyperbolizing and making an overall point.

another thing about those fics is that the hurt/comfort is usually centered on the one who needs the comfort. if phoenix helps miles get over the turnabout goodbyes trial, holds him after an earthquake or saves him "again", it's usually a miles-centered fic, and the disbarment ones are a phoenix study. it can be the other way around, of course, but the ones described earlier made me have a realization.

as i've stated in my nrmt analysis post, what they would have had before turnabout succession is just... not that healthy in my eyes? not long term healthy, at least. so i feel like nrmt fans tend to have a warped sense of what love and relationships are, constantly defining phoenix and miles by what they do for each other and what they mean to each other, not by their individual growth. phoenix often gets too much credit for saving miles, miles gets assigned the role of the one who was always there during the 7yg and helped take down kristoph, etc. again, not bad!! just interesting.

and with all of that being portrayed as this big romantic thing, i just feel like the narumitsu fans can be divided into different groups. if you like phoenix-centered bratfeen and aa1-3 wrightworth, you are likely to disregard your emotional needs for the sake of another person, idealize then, and to have experienced parental neglect or betrayal and abandonment of some kind, which can lead to an anxious attachment style. the people who like aa1-3 wrightworth with explorations of miles and disbarment fics about phoenix might have an idea in their head that no one understands them and never will, have a tendency to isolate themselves and have an avoidant attachment style. it might get mixed up too. of course, this is no way scientifically credible or well-spoken, it's like two am for me, what am i doing. but anyway, with the way nrmt shippers practically tie these two together by their identities... yeah.

again. absolutely no shade or hate or anything similar. i'm a huge narumitsu enjoyer. i have 333 bookmarks on ao3 and god knows some of them are exactly what I described above. but a girl has to speak her mind.

[iveneverbeenmorestressedinmylife]

Για το ask game Edgeworth και Ανδρέας

Miles Edgeworth 💅

First impression: OH I SHOULD GET INTO ACE ATTORNEY IMMEDIATELY THIS MAN IS GOING TO RUIN ME.

Impression now: I was one hundred percent correct in my assumptions. He did in fact ruin me. This man has the range honestly. He is kind. He is an asshole. He is traumatised. He has every subtype of daddy issues known to man. He is a bitchy gay queen. He is aroace-spec (to me). He is autistic. He has NO idea what to do with himself when he is not in a courtroom. He is insane. Ive seen it. I enjoy it. Amen.

Favourite moment: "thanks to you i am saddled with unnecessary.... feelings....". Everything about turnabout goodbyes. The talk with Franziska at the end of aa2. The talk with phoenix after the earthquake in aa3. I could literally never pick Just One moment sorry.

Idea for a story: ... I've brainstormed two (2) aus that involve Edgeworth with two different mutuals. The first one is the Eurovision au where vk just sends miles to represent germany in Eurovision and the second one is the ace attorney/παρά πέντε crossover me and @alalumin have been driving ourselves insane over. Out of the two, the first one is the most fleshed out but the second one i might actually sit down and write for one day. Thats about all the concrete story ideas ive had for this man so far dkskks. Everything else is just a jumble of vague angsty daydreams.

Unpopular opinion: hmmm a lot of people tend to ignore the fact that he was canonically suicidal after aa1 so i suppose that could count as an unpopular opinion? Like if he wasn't actually suicidal, the note meant that he straight up faked his death which makes him an even bigger asshole that he usually is, which in turn makes phoenix's misdirected anger and blame seem a lot more justified? Also a lot of people tend to ignore the fact that phoenix would NOT handle Edgeworth admitting that he meant the note literally well. And honestly im not really blaming anyone here. Their aa2 dynamic is sooo complex, Edgeworth hurt the people that cared about him by hurting himself and not all of them are ready to forgive him immediately and thats fine. I just wish more people would explore this whole thing instead of oversimplifying it yknow?

Favourite relationship: narumitsu obvs but honestly? The Franziska and Miles fucked up sibling relationship means the world to me, its like a really really really close second.

Favourite headcanon: does it actually count as a headcanon if its strongly supported by canon? Idk but he definitely avoids elevators as much as he can and considering that his office is in the twelfth fucking floor the man walks up a lot of flights of stairs. He must have thighs of steel skkskaka. Also i like to think that at some point after the investigation games he went to therapy and he finally (!) got some help for that unmedicated and undiagnosed canon ptsd hes been drowning in since he was nine years old. Also he got Pess because i love her. Maybe she is trained as a service dog. He would love her with all his heart and her death would kickstart a major depressive episode because god knows this man can't handle grief but in the end he could get over it. Maybe even get a second dog or learn how to deal with loss in a less self destructive way. Also i don't think he would ever be able to fully enjoy Christmas? Like sure his fathers death doesn't hurt as much anymore but i like to think that the nightmares rear their ugly head during the Christmas season. Sure, he IS doing better but some things never really go away. He can hang out at the prosecutors office or Wright anything agency Christmas parties without feeling utterly miserable but he doesn't enjoy the holidays as much as everyone else. Some people don't understand why or think thats its just another aspect of his charming personality but the people who do are sympathetic about it.

Ανδρέας Καλογήρου 🔪

First impression: γουαου ποιός είναι αυτός ο μαλάκας λολ. Ειλικρινά νομίζω την πρώτη φορά που είδα το παρά πέντε δεν με ένοιαζε πολύ σαν χαρακτήρας.

Impression now: κοίτα. Έχεις δει το μπλογκ μου. Ξέρεις πως νιώθω για αυτόν τον άνθρωπο. Ο Ανδρέας έχει θεματάρες. Έχει παγιδεύσει τον εαυτό του σε μια θέση στην οποία είναι και θύμα και θύτης και από την οποία δεν έχει τρόπο ή ιδιαίτερη θέληση να βγει. Κατά την διάρκεια του σόου πηγαίνει από την αδιαφορία για τους ανθρώπους που σκοτώνει, στην εμμονή με το να πιάσει τους πέντε και μόνο όταν τον συλλαμβάνουν και όλα τελειώνουν συνηδειτοποιεί πόσο μάταια ήταν όλα αυτά και πόσες ζωές έχει καταστρέψει συμπεριλαμβανομένης και της δικής του. Επίσης ο άνθρωπος είναι μούναρος 😔😔.

Favourite moment: το τηλεφώνημα στον Σπύρο στο φινάλε με στοιχειώνει τα βράδια.

Idea for a story: πέρα από το ο Σπύρος επισκέπτεται τον Ανδρέα στη φυλακή fic που βρίσκεται αυτή τη στιγμή στο wip hell μου έχει καρφωθεί στο μυαλό εκείνη η ατάκα που ο Παυρινός αποκαλεί τον Νίκο πρεζόνι και το τι μπορεί να υπονοεί για το Ανδρέας/Νίκος μπακστορι. Επίσης εκείνο το όνειρο που είχα δει ότι έχει κόρη και redemption arc, angst fic για την γενική κακομεταχείριση που τρώει από τον Παυρινό, το Ανδρέας/Νίκος καφενείο au το οποίο κάποιος πρέπει να γράψει σας εκλιπαρώ και το προαναφερόμενο ace attorney/παρά πέντε crossover στο οποίο εμφανίζεται ως μάρτυρας στην δίκη της Αγγέλας. Το πόσα από αυτά θα καταλήξω όντως να γράψω ποτέ είναι πολύ αμφιλεγόμενο τβχ αλλά το γεγονός είναι ότι μου τριβελίζουν συνέχεια το μυαλό.

Unpopular opinion: δεν ξέρω είμαστε στο παρά πέντε φάντομ, είμαστε δέκα άτομα όλα κι όλα κάθε άποψη μετράει για unpopular κσκσκσ. Αλλά απλά και μόνο για να πω κάτι. Νομίζω όντως προσπάθησε να αγαπήσει τη Ζάνα. Ο γάμος τους ήταν ότι πιο hand in unlovable hand και σφάζονταν όλη μέρα αλλά προσπάθησε να φτιάξει τη ζωή του στην αρχή τουλάχιστον, εξού και ο ευτυχισμένος χετεροσεξουαλ γάμος. Στο μυαλό μου ήταν από αυτά τα ζευγάρια που έχουν ημερομηνία λήξης και το ήξεραν και οι δύο. Μετά έπεσε στα βαθιά με τις δουλειές με τον Παυρινό και πήρανε επιτέλους διαζύγιο. Επίσης δεν νομίζω ότι με τον Νίκο τα έχουνε, έχουνε. Νομίζω έχουν μια ελαφρώς fucked up relationship όπου δεν επικοινωνούν τίποτα εβερ, απλά πηδιουνται περιστασιακά on and off και μετά απλά πηγαίνουν και τα φτιάχνουν με άλλους. Τουλάχιστον στην αρχή. Τώρα αν μετά το τέλος της σειράς βγουν ποτέ από την φυλακή θέλω να πιστεύω ότι θα μπορούσαν να φτιάξουν λίγο τη ζωή τους αλλά αν δεν βγουν ποτέ. Well. Πώς νιώθεις όταν συνηδειτοποιείς ότι αγαπούσες τον καλύτερο σου φίλο χρόνια τώρα αλλά δεν έκανες ποτέ τίποτα για αυτό επειδή απλά δεν τολμούσες να αλλάξεις τίποτα στην μοναδική σταθερή σχέση που σου είχε απομείνει στη ζωή σου και ταυτόχρονα ήσουν πολύ απασχολημένος να σκοτώνεις κόσμο; Πώς νιώθεις όταν συνηδειτοποιείς ότι τώρα μπορεί να είναι πια πολύ αργά; Γενικά head full many thoughts.

Favourite relationship: Νίκος/Ανδρέας δαγκωτό.

Favourite headcanon: ναιιι δεν νομίζω ότι αυτός ο άνθρωπος είχε καλά παιδικά χρόνια. Ή καλό πατέρα. Ο Παυρινός κυριολεκτικά του πετάει πράγματα και αυτός ο καημένος σκύβει να τα πιάσει 😔 babyboy έχεις τραύμα. Η μάνα του είναι νεκρή (ναι κυριολεκτικά αναφέρεται έτσι throwaway σε ένα επεισόδιο και δεν το έχω ξεχάσει ποτέ) και επιλέγω να πιστεύω ότι την σκότωσε ο πατέρας του. Μισεί τον πατέρα του και κατά βάθος μισεί και το γεγονός ότι μεγαλώνοντας έχει γίνει σχεδόν ακριβώς σαν αυτόν. Ξεκίνησε να καπνίζει στο γυμνάσιο. Επίσης δεν πιστεύω ότι τελείωσε ποτέ το λύκειο.

[wubbybubbly]

aww gumshoe’s trying to stand up for him…

also, I do like that edgeworth’s past corruption isn’t just being swept under the rug here. like, I do agree with him to some extent that eddie’s anger is understandable. regardless of his troubled past, edgeworth was a snake and I think it’s important to acknowledge his darker (and messier) side. he hurt people. he was a cog in a machine that kept the system alive. however, as I pointed out in my last post, I hate that characters like eddie straight up demonize edgeworth for it. mini rant under the cut.

edgeworth’s reasons for becoming a prosecutor were incredibly nuanced. even during his early career, he was never a cookie cutter Bad Guy. so defining his “demon attorney” days solely by his connection to von karma (i.e. his pursuit of a perfect win record) is plain wrong. it ignores just how deep and complex his motivations were.

I don’t know. I just think saying something like “I’m still angry at you for what you’ve done, but I understand that you were in pain and going through something I can’t comprehend” is really important, especially for someone like edgeworth. again, he was a fucking child. he didn’t become the “demon attorney” out of nowhere. he was trapped in a self-destructive cycle of guilt for over a decade. something that manfred, his mentor, had the power to alleviate at any time. but instead, he deliberately withheld the truth from the tormented boy, and miles had no idea of that power until he was in the defendant’s chair.

(it’s even sadder when you remember that edgeworth says in turnabout goodbyes, “if I had known the truth, I might have become a defense attorney after all.” what the fuckkkkk I’m killing manfred as we speak!!!!!!)

you can hold someone accountable for their actions without treating them like they’re satan incarnate. I actually find this flaw of eddie’s to be compelling, and I get why he might not be in the right headspace to see beyond his own anger and consider how gregory’s death affected his own son. like, I know that eddie isn’t privy to the information that the player is, so it’s unfair to criticize him for not acknowledging what edgeworth’s motivation to prosecute was. because he didn’t know. but it’s the fact that he doesn’t even try to understand that bothers me. he just jumps to conclusions and doesn’t think twice about how that might affect edgeworth. like, he has no idea what he’s fucking talking about. flippantly throwing the name von karma around and making comparisons between them rubs me the wrong way. it’s cathartic for eddie to lash out at edgeworth, and it’s selfish, just like how edgeworth himself used to be. and eddie has NO idea how similar they are in that regard, which is so juicy to me.

I’m excited to see where eddie’s character goes from here, but I’m still pissed at him for handling the situation horribly, lol. there’s a right and wrong way to criticize someone. eddie calling edgeworth out is fine, but he has to be accurate about it. or at the very least, acknowledge that he doesn’t know the full story. his feelings are valid, but they’re also self-centered. multiple things can be true at once.

I’ve been saying this ever since I played the trilogy, but edgeworth is someone who desperately needs to be told “I see you. I hear you. I acknowledge you” instead of “hey remember when you used to be evil” like THE WHOLE POINT is that he’s a human being too, gumshoe is literally the only person who points that out. edgeworth was abhorrent, but he was also in pain.

[wilygryphon]

If I were to write an Ace Attorney adaptation series-

Mia would be a major focus of the first half of the first season, having a plotline of investigating Redd White and Bluecorp. We see her visiting her comatose boyfriend Diego Armando in the hospital, developing her as a hero of her own story before her death in the seventh episode. The early episodes examine her spiritual powers, showing her meditating and seeing different spirits as she does so.

The first season ends with the resolution to Turnabout Goodbyes, and it is then followed up on with a movie telling the story of "Rise from the Ashes".

Season 2 has mentions of police investigating a forgery ring prior to The Lost Turnabout. The first part of that case's episode focuses on Phoenix investigating the case and very nearly solving it aside from identifying the real killer (and only because he never met the witness) all in one day of investigation. Then Wellington knocks him out and gives him amnesia, forcing him to piece it all together again in court. During the investigation, Phoenix points out the originally-unmentioned contradiction of the victim supposedly writing something in the sand with a broken neck.

When thinking of who could have been responsible for killing Gregory Edgeworth after determining that the bullet that Miles had accidentally fired had been removed from the scene, Phoenix reflects on what Grossberg told him over an animation of the Revisualization sequence from the Apollo Justice trilogy. He and Maya realize the truth at the same time.

Season 3 includes an arc prior to the Recipe For Turnabout arc which adapts the Professor Layton vs Phoenix Wright game. Prior to the London trial, Phoenix notices that the Magatama has run out of spiritual energy, explaining why it does not work while he and Maya are in Labyrinthia. This also keeps him from seeing Espella and Darklaw's Black Psyche-Locks (as well as possibly hundreds or thousands on the hearts of everyone else in Labyrinthia). Pearl recharges it after this arc.

When Gumshoe rescues Phoenix and Maya from Furio Tigre, he arrests the loan shark for assault and battery rather than let him go free until Godot summons him to testify in court.

The Season 3 premiere has Phoenix tell Maya how he met his mentor on the anniversary of Mia's death, with input by Marvin Grossberg providing insight on why she personally took the case despite her trauma.

[greyhound-with-a-mega-wizard-hat]

You know what would be an interesting au?

If Mia had been the one poisoned by Dahlia.

I wonder how that would change things

I think that Diego would be a 1:1 replacement for her, and do as she does in the original and try to seek justice. He and Maya would become friends and look our for each other whilst they wait for Mia to wake up. Diego is then killed by Redd White, and the first game happens as normal, but Maya summons Diego to help Phoenix, not Mia.

I'm not sure when the canon is that Diego woke up, but I personally headcanoned it as happening shortly after Mia died, sometime during game 1. So in this au, Mia wakes up shortly after the end of Turnabout Goodbyes and learns the heartbreaking news that her boyfriend has died.

This is when the au gets much more different, because of course Maya would know that Mia woke up. They're sisters, and so Mia would reach out to her. This means that Mia would not become Godot, as she would have love and support. However, i still think she'd become a prosecutor.

Unlike Diego, I don't think she'd blame Phoenix for Diego's death, but I do think she'd blame herself and seek to displace that anger and sadness. This time, she picks a more apt target: the judicial system that failed to catch Redd White (he was a criminal, what was a defence attorney even doing investigating him??? That's not their job), and the prosecutor that blamed her sister: Miles Edgeworth.

So, I think that Mia would become a prosecutor, but one that cooperates with defence attorneys, hates the detectives, and really hates Miles Edgeworth. Bridge to the Turnabout would not happen, because Mia would want to swoop in and prosecute Morgan for plotting murder, and so would have immediately taken the letter as evidence of her crimes before Pearl could read it.

I think she wouldn't stick around long in the main game series, but would be an antagonist in Ace Attorney Investigations (note: I haven't played these and don't actually know when they're set... I looked around online and they seem to both take place after TaT, so the timeline should work). She would taunt Edgeworth about how corrupt and incompetent he was, essentially acting as his version of Godot, but maybe a little more inadvertently helpful.

[alto-tenure]

The Professor Layton vs Phoenix Wright Timeline

The title’s a little misleading. This is a timeline of the Professor Layton and Ace Attorney games that brings them together so Professor Layton vs Phoenix Wright can exist in the canon. For the unaware -- it’s not very obvious when the Layton games take place, but most people place it around the mid-1900s, around the ‘60s for the main games. Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney canonically takes place in 2016, which is established from the one (1) canonical date of DL-6 happening in 2001. Thanks for that, Capcom.

I used the Ace Attorney wiki’s timeline as well as been_there_pun_that’s timeline of the Layton series as resources to base my own timeline of events upon, the latter of which has been rendered slightly inaccurate by the anime (especially with regards to Katrielle) but the rest of which is solid.

The base assumption of this is that Professor Layton vs Phoenix Wright takes place in November 2018, after The Stolen Turnabout but before Furio Tigre impersonates Phoenix Wright. I use American names for the PL games for simplicity’s sake, and LBMR is ignored on this timeline because I barely know anything about this game. (Katrielle’s birth is on here because I know she was born when Luke was fifteen, and that’s the extent of what I know about her.) Major spoilers for Professor Layton and the Azran Legacy (Layton backstory related), and minor spoilers for Investigations 2 (the case number of a certain inciting incident). Minor spoilers for the rest of both series as well, and major spoilers for Professor Layton vs Phoenix Wright.

Most of the events here are the major events of each game. I included Phoenix Wright and Layton’s births in the timeline, which is why this contains Azran Legacy spoilers at the start. This is incomplete on purpose; there are a lot of events over the course of all the games, so I narrowed my focus a lot. I decided to include the inciting event of Professor Layton vs Phoenix Wright because well...it is a timeline designed to make it compliant with both series. :)

I moved Professor Layton up rather than moving Ace Attorney back because the technology level in the London of Professor Layton vs Phoenix Wright is closer to that of Ace Attorney than of Professor Layton. (Maya and Phoenix are flying in a plane in their first cutscene, for instance, and Carmine Accidenti’s car is more modern.)

1982: Hershel Layton is born.

1986-ish*: Targent targets Leon and Rachel Bronev, leaving Hershel and Theodore Bronev alone. Roland and Lucile Layton adopt Theodore Bronev, thinking that he’s Hershel Bronev, and renaming him Hershel Layton.

1992: Phoenix Wright is born.

1999: Hershel Layton and Randall Ascot go on an expedition into the Azran ruins. Randall falls and is presumed dead.

December 2000: IS-7 incident begins.

December 2001: DL-6 incident takes place.

2007: Espella Cantabella and Eve Belduke climb the bell tower and ring the bell. The Great Fire happens.

2009: Hershel Layton becomes a professor of archeology at Gressenheller University. Claire dies in the time machine explosion. Labyrinthia is established to conceal Espella and Eve’s memories of the bell tower.

2012: Events of Turnabout Reminiscence (Miles Edgeworth investigates his first case)

2013: Events of Turnabout Beginnings (Miles Edgeworth and Mia Fey make their court debuts)

2014: Phoenix Wright’s trial for the murder of Doug Swallow (Turnabout Memories)

2016: 

Events of Professor Layton and the Last Specter take place (either during spring or summer)**

Events of Professor Layton and the Eternal Diva take place (must be after Last Specter)

August: Larry Butz’s trial for the murder of Cindy Stone (The First Turnabout)

September: Maya Fey & Phoenix Wright’s trials for the murder of Mia Fey (Turnabout Sisters)

October: Will Powers’s trial for the murder of Jack Hammer (Turnabout Samurai)

December: Miles Edgeworth’s trial for the murder of Robert Hammond (Turnabout Goodbyes)

2017:

February: Lana Skye’s trial for the murder of Bruce Goodman (Rise from the Ashes)

June: Maya Fey’s trial for the murder of Turner Grey (Reunion, and Turnabout)

September: Maggey Byrde’s trial for the murder of Dustin Prince (The Lost Turnabout)

December: Maximilian Galactica’s trial for the murder of Russel Berry (Turnabout Big Top)

Sometime in 2017***: Events of Professor Layton and the Miracle Mask take place.

2018: 

January-July (tentatively): Events of Professor Layton and the Azran Legacy take place.

March: Matt Engarde’s trial for the murder of Juan Corrida (Farewell, My Turnabout)

August: Events of Professor Layton and the Curious Village and Professor Layton and the Diabolical Box take place.

October: Ron Delite’s trial for the theft of the Sacred Urn and the murder of Kane Bullard (The Stolen Turnabout)

November: Events of Professor Layton vs Phoenix Wright take place.

December: First trial of Maggey Byrde for the murder of Glen Elg (in which Furio Tigre impersonated Phoenix Wright)

2019:

January: Second trial of Maggey Byrde for the murder of Glen Elg (Recipe for Turnabout); events of Professor Layton and the Unwound Future take place.

March-April: Events of the Miles Edgeworth: Investigations games take place.

April: Phoenix Wright gets disbarred during the trial of Zak Gramarye/Shadi Enigmar for the murder of Magnifi Gramarye

2021: Katrielle Layton is born.

2026: Events of Apollo Justice: Ace Attorney.

2027: Events of Dual Destinies.

2028: Events of Spirit of Justice.

*There isn’t an exact age given for Layton at the time he was adopted, just a “more than 30 years ago”, and given that Azran Legacy takes place when he’s 36, he had to have been less than that at the time, but old enough to retain some memories (while they remain repressed). been_there_pun_that puts Layton at 4 at the time of his adoption, which makes sense to me, so I put it down as four years after his birth, but it could ostensibly be 1987 as well.

**Misthallery is very green, so the seasons haven’t taken effect.

***Monte d’Or is in a desert, so I have no clue what season it could possibly be. Fucking Azran messing with the weather and making my life harder :P

Events of Azran Legacy take place over a longer span of time than any other Layton game, leaving it difficult to place in the timeline. I’ve done my best here. I don’t know where I got that Curious Village and Diabolical Box take place in August, but I am using it to full effect. This puts Curious Village only a few weeks after the events of Azran Legacy, which is in fact what I think.

[alynnl]

Me during Turnabout Goodbyes: I'm going to come up with so many Wrightworth plot bunnies they'll become my next OTP fic inspiration!

Me during all of Ace Attorney Investigations 1: I'm going to come up with so many gen case fics that have way too many details for me to possibly write, but it's okay because Miles Edgeworth is here to solve another mystery!

[aro-attorneys]

nrmt = jekyon?? tell me more share your theories friend

(All J&H characters mentioned below are from the The Glass Scientists webcomic; other adaptations do not count for this analysis)

Oh nice, free infodump real estate!

I'll start off saying that this is entirely subjective and not everyone might agree with the connection I made between the two ships.

Furthermore, at their core they're both very much their own unique dynamic. If this seems like a stretch to you, that's totally fine!

That being said, here are my theories/takes/connections (screenshots will mostly be from TGS since that's more easily accessible):

My brain sort of made the connection after recent chapters came out. The focus on Lanyon's feelings and how he expresses (or not expresses) them reminded me very strongly of the "thanks to you, I am saddled with unnecessary feelings line." It also reminded me of this bit from chapter 3:

(ugh feelings, am i right)

Lanyon has Edgeworth Vibes to me lol. They have their "repressed victorian man" thing going on (although Lanyon literally is one).

I made a post about Lanyon's way of expressing his feelings before if you're interested.

Comparing Jekyll to Phoenix might be a bit of a stretch, perhaps. But with earlier flashbacks about Jekyll's university years and the much, much earlier scene during the Frankenstein Play, I can safely say the following things:

Both started out more expressive/open about their feelings. Only after having their hearts broken (Phoenix with Dahlia and Jekyll with Lanyon), did they take a turn and bottle their feelings up or stopped expressing them in a healthy manner.

Both have...little sense of self-preservation. Phoenix has shown over and over again that he's willing to hurt himself or even die for the things important to him. Jekyll also literally admitted to being willing to die for science. Although Jekyll has gotten a little better with it. One of the major developments he's going through right now is putting himself and his feelings and safety first.

Here is the evidence for Jekyll's case:

And Phoenix is infamous for eating a glass vial with possibly still potent poison and running across a burning bridge. And he's been more than willing to get hurt to help the people involved in his cases. It's something about sacrificing yourself because you think something or someone else is more important.

Although Jekyll has been recovering from this mindset ever since Hyde forcefully took over his body:

Another thing I've noticed with both ships is that there is a strong mutual admiration for the other, but neither actually voices it. It's a little more obvious for Narumitsu, where Phoenix admits in Turnabout Goodbyes how much he looks up to Edgeworth after the class trial. And in the Miles Edgeworth: Investigations games, he expresses the same admiration for Phoenix. They both are influenced by the other all the time and it makes them better, more well-rounded people.

This mutual admiration isn't as healthy in Jekyon, at least not consistently. In Jekyll's manifestation of his mind, he sees Lanyon as the perfect gentleman, as someone to look up to and follow no matter what. Even though he broke Jekyll's heart many years prior. But still, Jekyll believes he became a better person for it. Vice versa, Lanyon used to be kind of a heartbreaker. But meeting and dating Jekyll changed him. He wanted to commit to a relationship* and not Hurt Feelings anymore if he could help it. Unfortunately there was an arranged marriage so there's that.

*I am not saying that suddenly wanting a romantic and sexual relationship made him better, it's the not wanting to break other men's hearts that made him better.

I think...that's it? If I had to put it shortly, I'd say both ships have a unique dysfunctional way of communicating. Avoiding sharing any thoughts or feelings and then being surprised that the other party is upset. They're disasters and I love to watch it unfold :) (mainly because there's also actual character development to look forward to).