katherinakaina

[katherinakaina]

Good post!

Although, I don't know if a winner vs loser angle is all that relevant when it comes to Daniil. Like, yeah, people mock him for his failures, but then they sympathize with Artemy about his failures? Imagine people mocking Artemy for failing to save his father. Or being toyed with by Oyun. Monstrous! But similar mocking is happening towards Daniil every day and somehow it's just soooo funny.

Like, I think Daniil does suffer more. But people seem to disagree. They say 'Artemy Burakh's tormentous nightmare'. And take all his struggles very seriously.

Maybe it's because the narrative frames Daniil's failures as his fault and Artemy is presented as more of a victim. But to me it's very obvious that the text uses this guilt tripping of Daniil to add to his suffering. Like, this guy over here is being fucked by everyone all the time and also is being gaslit into believing it's his own fault. Psychologically it's a way more difficult situation. No wonder he lashes at Aglaya so much in the end when he believes for the first time he has someone to blame apart from himself.

Seems like the gaslighting just works on the fandom too. They hear the obvious villains say 'it's your fault Bachelor' and they go 'yep, it sure is, Bachelor is such a moron'.

Anyway, the fact that he's 'a loser' doesn't make me like him less. And the fact that he achieves something (in p1 the vaccine he helped create is actually saving lives and probably is the reason the town survived at all) is not what makes me like and defend him. Because I don't take the narrative that openly warns me it's going to deceive me at its word. Wild concept I know.

I feel like we don't really see that Daniil Dankovsky is a human in a very bad situation, simultaneously coming as a loser and as a winner. When I see people talking about Daniil's character (or even arc) it's either solely about him being an ultimate winner and all people around are just haters who don't get it, or about him being an ultimate loser who should not be defended at all. What I wanted to say is: the Bachelor's Pathologic Classic arc is not as plain as some people say.

What do I mean? Imagine, you are running your own laboratory, which goal seems nearly impossible but most noble to say the least: to defeat death itself and grant people the right to die not when "the time comes", but whenever they actually feel ready to. But of course achieving it could not be easy or ethical; logically, you have to interact with dead bodies, experiment with them (and living beings too) in many different ways, probably not all of them being socially acceptable, and most morally important: your ultimate goal goes against the nature laws themselves. Obviously, it may fascinate someone, but a lot of people won't like your and your partner's actions, including the government. The scandal eventually heats up so much that your life's work is threatened with being cut off entirely (with you probably stop being a celebrity and a genius and turning into an enemy of the people).

And then, like a gift from God personally, you receive a letter from some town in the middle of nowhere, casually saying there is an immortal man living here. And so, you are standing on the enge of the abyss; your life's work is about to perish, and only a miracle can save it. And couldn’t an immortal man be the very miracle that would certainly open everyone’s eyes to the reality of your theory and make the greatest scientific breakthrough of the century? Of course, in despair, you will immediately leave everything behind and rush after him like a drowning man after the last straw.

And then everything collapses again before your eyes. The immortal man died along with the one who wrote about him, and you haven't even got a chance to speak to any of them, and the people around you seem to be starry-eyed, AND by a complete accident you are now stuck in this godforsaken place because it was suddenly revealed that they died from a terrible mysterious disease. You are a doctor, a scientist, a bachelor of medicine, and you are the one who has to deal with this now. What? You don't want to? You ask people when the train arrives? Oh, what a shame, but now you have no choice: the government has dropped on your shoulders the lethal weight of the responsibility for every death and every wrong event in this town under the auspices that if you manage to defeat the disease, then MAYBE your life’s work will not be turned to dust. You may not have planned to fight the unknown plague, but now you have to do it.

See? And that's just the start of his plot. He almost impulsively arrived to the Town-on-Gorkhon because he needed to save his idea AT THE MOMENT. Before it gets shattered to pieces. He never wished to fight The-Most-Horrible-Pathogen-To-Ever-Exist, no, he was aiming to meet a literal living miracle.

He did not succeed. Neither he met the immortal man, nor he defeated the plague, and it remains unknown if he at least saved his laboratory. He lost a lot, a LOT. In fact, he only won in what he initially did not and could not count on (the Polyhedron turned out to be a new possible source of human immortality, but could Daniil have thought about it himself?)

That's the metamorphosis. He loses everything he had before he sees the light at the end of the tunnel. His ultimate goal of defeating death may not have changed, but his beliefs and methods did, as he was forced to watch his work burn before getting a chance to start anew. He has to accept what he initially rejected and turn his mindset on 90°. His arc is about a defeat, a search, a metamorphosis and a BITTER victory. Yes, Daniil Dankovsky is a loser, but have you seen what he achieved by the end? And yes, Daniil Dankovsky is a winner, but have you seen how many defeats precede this?

Initially this text was going to be much more... filled with resentment and anger for all the misconceptions I saw about the Bachelor, but turned out to be a much simpler analysis on his character arc, which I've seen being mashed with dirt by many people in the community. Hope you enjoyed.

Btw I see a symbolism here; snakes are often associated with a new start, a shed into something better, and I think everyone already knows what animal the Bachelor is highly represented with.

[katherinakaina]

[katherinakaina]

Okay, another controversial Bachelor take.

It's totally fine that he says he has high intelligence in p2.

To me it makes more sense than his weird humbleness in p1. I do not think this specific aspect of his is strictly better in p1.

Not all people who think they're smart are actually smart. But actually smart people usually know they're smart. You don't become an ambitious scientist believing you are above average at best. The only reason to withhold this information is because it's considered socially unacceptable. It's all about modesty. You basically pretend that you don't know how brilliant you are for the comfort of people around you. And we know that Daniil is not good with lying and pretending.

I admit, it does make me cringe a bit when he says that so openly. But that's because I've internalized some social rules against my will, not because there's something objectively wrong with it. I mostly cheer for him from the shadows, like, yes king know your worth don't let them shame you!

You can still consider this a character flaw of course. Daniil doesn't understand envy and resentment (he's never jealous of Artemy's success for one) so he doesn't get that he's supposed to hide his privileges. He ends up flaunting his education, his expensive clothing and, yes, his intelligence. All the while fully believing that he's the one being oppressed (a trait he shares with Aglaya).

On the other hand, in p1 Daniil constantly belittles himself. And I think that's not out of humbleness. Kinda the opposite. He honestly expected himself to defeat death by 30. He thinks he's stupid for failing at this task.

(or it's a legacy character trait from when he was Benedict, a fraud who knew nothing about medicine, or so I've been told)

For me, it doesn't make his character that much more deep or interesting. It's maybe super relatable for former gifted children with constant impostor syndrome but Daniil's not that, is he? He has his career that is only stalled by malicious government. To rage and persevere in such a situation one must believe themselves very smart indeed.

[katherinakaina]

The new p3 trailer sounds like Daniil is talking to one of his haters.

- You weren't perfect were you, doctor? You failed! You failed you failed you failed!

- I fought a highly contagious disease that kills in four hours in a small town with a non cooperative population and a shortage of medicine inflicted by your gover-

- Nuh uh! You took this responsibility upon yourself and you failed! Are you stupid? Are you claiming you would literally do nothing differently?

-... No? Obviously, if I had time travel-

- That's it! You could do things differently that means you could do better that means everything is your fault! Stupid stupid stupid

[katherinakaina]

'Celebrated'

'They hated your ass'

Those two can coexist perfectly. I bet you can come up with the examples yourself, from recent history even. The thing is that hate and praise come from different sides. Like scientific community vs the government and/or the public.

If you want to accuse Bachelor of something so badly, notice how his persecution complex is maybe exaggerated a little bit. He's obviously a recognized scientist in his early thirties. He's a celebrity. His lab is a fucking palace.

"Learn how your story began and what drove a celebrated academic to leave his acclaimed lab"

daniil wrote this promotional blurb himself. "celebrated" okay buddy keep jacking yourself off over there

[katherinakaina]

I live for the day someone names their Pathologic OC Ivan. Or Vasily.

[katherinakaina]

Polyhedron would be a perfect metaphor for AI except for one detail. Polyhedron is perfectly safe while AI is an existential risk.

Polyhedron doesn't cause the Plague, it provokes it. The cause is in the Earth. That's why destroying the Town is a valid choice, Polyhedron itself will not keep causing outbreaks in the future. Destroying the Polyhedron is also a valid choice, if not provoked the Earth will remain calm. But you have to abandon the idea of building new things that might irritate Earth forever, abandon progress, uphold the Law.

So, the metaphors here should be

Earth = human nature, both good and bad.

Tower = something new and great, rooted deep in our nature (good) but also causing an irritation (bad).

Plague = result of this irritation.

Provocative political art can be Polyhedron. Radical political progress is Polyhedron. Political reaction is Plague.

AI doesn't provoke some deep rooted human evil, as I can see it. It's just a product. It's extremely dangerous just by itself, like nuclear power. Can be used for good, but can also blow us all up. The danger is within the thing itself.

Like, Internet is a better fit, since, yeah, it provokes humans to behave badly, even though it was created from a deep human desire to communicate and share knowledge. By itself it's just neutral.

If anything in pathologic is AI it's shmowders. Mostly poisonous randomly assembled black boxes. They save lives but really should be fucking regulated.

Hear me out

Pathologic in modern au but it’s AI instead of the Polyhedron

Yk, the children are obsessed, the adults are concerned, some are highly against it, utopians call it a miracle and are obsessed with it, no one knows the consequences yet but something weird is already happening

[katherinakaina]

YES.

Ayan is the most underrated nonbound in the game. And I believe her story is way more complex than what meets the eye. Like, why was she taken by the worms? What happened to her? So much is happening with these Brides every day and even Artemy doesn't really know much.

I want to write my Ayan theory post one day when I have the strength. In short, I believe she's the same Bride who ran away from her father on day 2 Haruspex and the same Bride whom he asked to kill on day 5 (alternative to Willow). So, there's a reason why she's persecuted AND there's a reason why they almost kill Daniil when he enters the Abattoir - for harboring Ayan and killing her kidnappers. It fits together almost too perfectly, so the fact that it's not a highlighted b plot is such a wasted opportunity.

Ayan is such an interesting and underrated character! She only has a few lines but I love her so much.

[katherinakaina]

One depressed tortured artist alcoholic another violent alcoholic surrounded by very young sexually available women whom he specifically took from their culture and their families (a very bad family in case of Willow). Last time they created a Really Cool thing many years ago and since then are just partying. The list goes on.

Stamatin brothers together are just Dybovsky, aren't they?

[katherinakaina]

Stamatin brothers together are just Dybovsky, aren't they?

[katherinakaina]

We are talking about a man who takes it upon himself to cure DEATH even if most of his contemporaries dismiss the ultimate affliction as a natural part of life. His philosophy is as far from 'it's natural to suffer, just suck it up and stop whining' as it gets. If anything, Daniil would have issues with people downplaying their situations. Manly man pretending to be fine, women claiming that it's normal to die in childbirth.

In the game we will probably have people who lie to get back to work. Patrolmen and couriers especially. Some people will maybe lie to get more medicine for their bedridden relatives. Some people will decide that they're cured because antibiotics worked and then stop taking them to, again, maybe save some for their children. And then the Pest will become antibiotics resistant! Wouldn't that be just a load of fun?

And Daniil will have to figure it all out on top of everything else which is exhausting to even imagine.

Anyway, he's not your local gp who gives you ibuprofen and sends you home. He is a crazy scientist who keeps you in the lab running every test he has and then inventing some new ones in his desperate attempt to rid humanity of every last bit of pain we endure. If the character is written well, people will be complaining that he keeps them in the hospital even though they're 'fine'.

FFS, this whole thing is based on House MD! Go watch a single episode.

the dankovsky slander truly never ends because why are people assuming he would accuse patients of lying about their symptoms when THE ONLY P3 dialogue revealed insofar is him validating a symptom ? 🤣

[katherinakaina]

Hahaha

[katherinakaina]

So, the results are in and, believe it or not, they align almost perfectly with my intuitions of what the dominant opinions in the fandom are.

Most people would prefer you play both games. Slightly more people recommend p2 first, but it's pretty close, almost a coin flip. A lot of people believe that you don't even have to bother with p2, not until all three routes are out at least.

But most importantly, the opinion that you can only play p2 and stop at that is in the clear minority. I predicted that but expected it to be higher. No, it's under 10% (mostly people who themselves only played p2, I suspect).

Granted, 300 votes is not very representative. But those are the most active people in the community, people who check the tag and can catch an obscure poll. If you are willing to listen to one or two youtubers because you trust their knowledge of the game based on their videos, you should trust 300 hardcore fans more.

Most of us believe that you don't get most of the story if you don't play p1. You can start with p2 if old games scare you but then you'll better check out p1 for the plot. Use a guide if it's too confusing, nobody cares.

Good luck and don't let people scare you out of good art!

[katherinakaina]

For when they no longer serve you, cast them aside like old skin

[katherinakaina]

Clearly intelligent educated nerdy and weird people making fun of Daniil Dankovsky in big popular video essays and art works and their mostly neurodivergent audience eating it up has huge

- Have you ever been bullied?

- Oh, let's see, let me think. Only K through 12, nine hours a day. But you don't see me going on talk shows to play the victim!

- No, I see you going on talk shows to play the bully.

energy to me.

[katherinakaina]

All the anti-intellectuals in general. They never went anywhere, I'm afraid. All this 'can't wait to see how Daniil fucks up this time hehe'.

can't wait for patho 3 to reveal all the antivaxxers in the fandom again!

[katherinakaina]

Please keep in mind that this is just one fan's opinion that does not necessary reflect how most people who played the games feel.

Should I play Pathologic 1 or 2?

Patho2, unless you truly love playing games that feel like they were made by aliens or are already kind of obsessed with Pathologic.