unofficialvulturecultureproblems

[unofficialvulturecultureproblems]

This is too important not to reblog with this additional information.

So I was gifted a snake and I just found a bird outside my therapists office. Both of which have really small bones and I don't think I can decompose them like I usually do for fear of losing/damaging bones (nature or masceration tank). I don't have any beetles or anything. Any suggestions for how I can go about this? I get really emotional when I do any form of work with knives on animals so I don't know if I could do that

First off since bird remains were mentioned without a location: if you're in the US the Migratory Bird Treaty Act applies so I'd advise leaving the bird outside. There's also restrictions for people in the EU. There are protected and unprotected species so there's a chance it could be legal otherwise, but please be mindful of the laws if this applies to you.

There's a few different options you could utilize though.

While it can have a learning curve, you could try the oxidation method. Essentially you'll soak the animal in hydrogen peroxide instead of water. This should make removing the body tissue manually a bit easier without the skeleton falling apart and is ideally a method used for very small animals who area more difficult to clean. It's a more difficult method to utilize though, so be prepared for a lot of hands-on work. If using knives on an animal isn't your thing this may not be the method for you. No matter what method you use it's advised to clean off as much meat manually as possible though.

If you did want to use maceration you still very well could. Remove as much flesh as possible and use a fine mesh strainer when draining off water. You'll just have to be more meticulous about going through what's in the strainer when you pour out water for changes or the finished product so you don't accidentally throw out any bones with flesh bits.

Another method would be utilizing a "rot pot" for a controlled natural decomposition. It's the same concept as using burial or leaving a carcass out to rot, only instead of leaving or burying it out in the open somewhere you're using a planter box/pot. Be mindful that some animals can still carry off bones (magpies are the worst about it in my area) so you'll need to make sure to prevent that, but if you leave it open for flies and other bugs they'll definitely help the process.

Hope this helps and your bone cleaning goes well!

[unofficialvulturecultureproblems]

So I was gifted a snake and I just found a bird outside my therapists office. Both of which have really small bones and I don't think I can decompose them like I usually do for fear of losing/damaging bones (nature or masceration tank). I don't have any beetles or anything. Any suggestions for how I can go about this? I get really emotional when I do any form of work with knives on animals so I don't know if I could do that

First off since bird remains were mentioned without a location: if you're in the US the Migratory Bird Treaty Act applies so I'd advise leaving the bird outside. There's also restrictions for people in the EU. There are protected and unprotected species so there's a chance it could be legal otherwise, but please be mindful of the laws if this applies to you.

There's a few different options you could utilize though.

While it can have a learning curve, you could try the oxidation method. Essentially you'll soak the animal in hydrogen peroxide instead of water. This should make removing the body tissue manually a bit easier without the skeleton falling apart and is ideally a method used for very small animals who area more difficult to clean. It's a more difficult method to utilize though, so be prepared for a lot of hands-on work. If using knives on an animal isn't your thing this may not be the method for you. No matter what method you use it's advised to clean off as much meat manually as possible though.

If you did want to use maceration you still very well could. Remove as much flesh as possible and use a fine mesh strainer when draining off water. You'll just have to be more meticulous about going through what's in the strainer when you pour out water for changes or the finished product so you don't accidentally throw out any bones with flesh bits.

Another method would be utilizing a "rot pot" for a controlled natural decomposition. It's the same concept as using burial or leaving a carcass out to rot, only instead of leaving or burying it out in the open somewhere you're using a planter box/pot. Be mindful that some animals can still carry off bones (magpies are the worst about it in my area) so you'll need to make sure to prevent that, but if you leave it open for flies and other bugs they'll definitely help the process.

Hope this helps and your bone cleaning goes well!

[unofficialvulturecultureproblems]

thanks for the advice! it looks more like dirt than sawdust? it’s a dark color and isn’t as fine as sawdust. i don’t have a large freezer or insecticide(i have a family member who’s super allergic) so do you think just putting the mount in a plastic garbage bag for a while should help?

I'll admit, I'm not much of a bug expert, but I would still suspect pests such as beetles as the culprit. That sounds like it's probably frass, or bug poop.

I don't think just putting it in a garbage bag will do much if anything. If you're relying on suffocation it will take an exceedingly long time for an insect to suffocate, and doing so with a bag would be very difficult to ensure success short of creating a vacuum. I once trapped a cockroach in a container then promptly forgot about it for months and rediscovered it only to see the cockroach was still alive and moving (and yes, I know this is cruel and not okay, I swear it wasn't done on purpose). Putting the mount behind glass and outside where it will be exposed to more extreme temperatures would be more effective, though this is not fool-proof, and light exposure especially behind the magnifying effects of glass will sun bleach your mount more quickly.

As for the insecticides, is your family member okay with citronella? I am sensitive to a lot of chemical or "smelly" things myself (we cannot burn candles in our home, and sometimes I can't do dishes because the Dawn dish soap will give me hives) but was able to use Mount Saver with minimal issues. It smells like citronella and is a blend of essential oils, not a 'synthetic' chemical like Raid or other insecticides are. I think this option may be your best bet if you're unable to utilize other methods. You can probably contact the company directly for any specific allergy concerns. For example I'm highly allergic to oranges, especially orange essential oils, so I could reach out to them and ask if it's used in their essential oil blend. (To the best of my knowledge it isn't, as I have not gone into anaphylactic shock since buying/using Mount Saver).

If using a product such as Mount Saver I highly recommend using it outside if possible. If you can let the mount air out outside or in a garage or shed or otherwise not inside the home with the sensitive individual that will be the best solution to avoid problems. The product does have a very strong smell that some find enjoyable but I know I cannot stand, but it does fade away completely within a couple days. As a plus side, the smell also tends to deter pets.

If you still don't think you're able to use a product such as Mount Saver or find room in your freezer I do recommend giving borax or dichotomous earth a try. Dichotomous earth works best as a light dusting as it will cling to the bug's exoskeleton and dehydrate them. If it's clumped on it tends not to stick to the bug and thus won't be effective. You can buy large bags of it for fairly cheap online. For borax you'll want to get into every crevice possible because you'll need the insects to ingest it for it to kill them (again, please exercise basic caution when using borax, as it's bad for people and pets to ingest as well). Borax is usually found in the same aisle as laundry detergents in stores.

Regardless of which method you use, I also do recommend taking the mount outside and using a high velocity dryer/strong blow dryer on a low setting/shop vacuum to blow off the mount going through the fur in case there's any bugs in it currently that can be removed. Brushing can also achieve this.

If all of these options still don't sound realistic for you, unfortunately I don't know any other solutions. Keep your mount away from other mounts the bugs may spread to, and monitor it. If left unchecked bugs will happily eat at a mount, leading to chucks of fur coming out and buildups of frass in and around the mount. This ultimately will ruin the mount to the point where you likely will not want to keep it, or may not wish to keep it due to the infestation risk it poises to your home. Like, if you have a larder beetle problem they don't stop at taxidermy mounts, they also eat furniture. (Note: larder beetles are in the same family as carpet beetles and dermestid beetles, all with similar issues in the home.) Clothes moths, as the name suggests, eat clothes. Cockroaches even eat taxidermy mounts, and incidentally they're also a massive home pest. Without treatment it's a ticking time bomb that could result in an infestation throughout your home. Throwing away a taxidermy mount isn't an appealing option to anyone, but it could ultimately be your best option if you're unable to do anything else to get the bugs out of your mount.

[unofficialvulturecultureproblems]

One thing I've unfortunately learned from gardening, hiking and wildlife ID groups on Facebook is that the average person has no idea that "invasive" specifically means when something non-native is ecologically harmful. A whole whole lot of people think it literally just means a "pest" in any context at all, so I catch people in the USA describing our own hornworms, poison oak, even raccoons as "invasive." They just hear news stories about "invasive wildlife" and that it's damaging something and all they think is "oh, this term means when an animal or plant inconveniences me and is hard to get rid of."

I can fully see how that mental connection works and it's really not all their fault. The word does not on its own really tell you how it's meant to be used. That, and a lot of people just don't understand the difference between what matters for the ecosystem and what digs up their store bought unnatural flower cultivars.

[unofficialvulturecultureproblems]

i really wish unethical cat breeds were taken seriously by animal lovers as unethical dog breeds. we rightfully condemn what they've done to pugs, but persians, munchkins, and lykoi cats still get posted everywhere like they're normal breeds. its so heartbreaking

[unofficialvulturecultureproblems]

nice seeing you post again!! i have a question that’s been eating at me for a few months…. i have a somewhat vintage squirrel taxidermy hanging on a wall and every day there’s gritty dust on the cabinet underneath it. i think it’s bug residue but i have no idea what kind. the piece isn’t in terrible condition but the last thing i want is a bug infestation. is the piece salvageable at all?

Does it look like sawdust is collecting underneath the mount?

If so, you've probably got beetles (more specifically, their larvae) in your mount.

Other signs to look out for include lines or tracks in their hair from the larvae moving in a straight line, rice-krispie looking shells on or under your mount (casings), and hair slippage or even falling off in clumps.

Common pests that infest taxidermy include common clothes moths, case-bearing moths, fur beetles, varied carpet beetles, furniture beetles, and larder beetles. Finding the difference between which one you have won't matter too much though for how to treat your mount.

I've had beetles in one of my mounts before, it happens, and thankfully there's ways of dealing with it:

Put your mount in the freezer. Some say to do it overnight, some say do it for a week, others say a month. So I couldn't tell you how long you should keep your mount in a freezer, but your goal is to kill the larvae, so whatever amount of time feels right for you go for it.

You can also lightly dust your mount and the area around it with dichotomous earth. The trick is a thin layer of it, as thicker layers aren't as effective. This will dry out any critter with an exoskeleton and kill them. It can be hard to get it where it's needed for taxidermy mounts though.

Covering your mount in some borax can also kill bugs that ingest it. Be careful doing this if you have pets or kids who may be around the mount, since borax isn't good for us to ingest either and affects the kidneys.

Putting the mount in a garbage bag, spraying an insecticide inside there, and closing the bag and letting it sit for 24 hrs is another common method. Take all the necessary precautions recommended for bug sprays if you chose to do this, and make sure to air out your mount in a well ventilated area or outside if you do this.

Manually brushing out the hairs with a stiff and densely bristled brush can help remove any eggs, especially if you suspect moths to be at play. Brush with the hairs. Think of it like brushing out lice on your own hair. Cleaning the mount by using a shop vac or other high velocity dryer to blow off any dirt, dust, and possibly eggs or smaller bugs outside is also recommended.

There's also products that you can get, like Mount Saver and Mount Protector, which will target the bugs affecting your mount. Spray liberally, you can do the bag method like you would with other insecticides, and let the fumes do the work.

I hope this helps! Good luck, hopefully your mount will be bug-free in no time.

[unofficialvulturecultureproblems]

Sorry for the random question. I'm very new to collecting animal bones so every little thing that feels odd to me makes me anxious :'p

I found a few scattered vertebrae a few days ago and they were very clean when I found them. I've cleaned them with soaps and put them in a dishsoap bath for 24 hours to get the oils out, but now after I've let them dry for a day I found a tiny maggot on one of them. I'm unsure if I have to take action or if I should just continue letting them dry.

It was probably one or two maggot eggs that were attached to the vertebrae when I picked it up. And since there's no meat left (from what I can see) it should probably be fine? But I'm still very unsure of what to do in this situation.

What do you think I should do?

No need for apologies, friend!

If the maggot seemed to be alive and was feeding on something you may want to let them finish their job and help you with cleaning.

It's also entirely possible the maggot was there before you started and just got stuck in the bones. If it's dead there's a very good chance it drowned.

Either way, let it dry unless you feel really uncomfortable and want to give it another soak/scrub. If it dries it gives you a better chance to see if there's any parts that need further cleaning, especially if you're degreasing (24 hours may not be long enough, and it's good to change the water out a few times at least to make sure it remains clear).

A lot of nature cleaned bones I've personally come across usually didn't need additional cleaning. So honestly if they don't look bad (free of meat, probably a bit sun bleached) you're probably alright.

[unofficialvulturecultureproblems]

Vulture Culture Resource Page

A collection of guides and frequently asked questions about the Vulture Culture. I’ll be adding links to this page (from my blog and other sources) as time allows but this will be any and all resources I can gather! Link for anyone using mobile: blackbackedjackal.tumblr.com/vc

☕ KO-FI ☕

[unofficialvulturecultureproblems]

i found a possum about 2 months ago and buried her in my yard (cant do many other methods to clean her up bc of family, wildlife, and our dog) kinda just wanted to share but also ask for some tips for the future. i buried her as is, though shed been a bit picked at bc roadkill. in the future should i be trying to manually skin/deflesh her before burial? and are there any good guides on how to do so for a complete beginner? and approx how long do you think it'll take for her to decompose just in the yard? is there a best practice for burials like this with hope of retrieving bones, like should i have placed her in a cloth bag or maybe on a tray first? sorry for all the questions, i just wanna make sure im doing better next time and the resources id been looking at before have disappeared in the reddit blackout. thank you so much!

I hope it's going well!

When it comes to burial there's a few things you can do to help:

Remove as much tissue as possible before burying. While not necessary this can help speed up the process a bit, and help prevent scavengers from being as tempted to dig up the animal you're burying (especially if you toss the remains further away for wildlife to eat).

Use a mesh sack or bone cage (for larger bones) when burying. A bone cage can prevent animals from digging up your buried specimen, and having some form of containment helps make it easy to find all the bones again. Otherwise you'll be sifting through the dirt looking for every little lost tooth, claw, and smaller bones, which will migrate. Never underestimate how much worms and insects will move around bones in addition to things like the dirt just settling as the body decomposes.

Overall the process is pretty simple. A cloth bag can work or a lot of people use wire mesh. Whatever you use you want to make sure small insects and bacteria can access the carcass without losing anything in the process.

It's common to have to follow up burial with maceration. If left buried too long bones will begin to decompose, or may grow plant life on them, or even begin to rust if any metal (such as a bone cage) is touching them which can cause permanent staining. I've personally left a coyote buried in my yard without a bone cage/sack and after about a year the skull had begun to break down and many bones I wasn't able to find. There's no exact time estimates anyone can give for burial since it depends on so many different factors but do make sure to check in on your opossum in a timely manner. Mistakes can always make for great opportunities to learn so don't be afraid to try and fail and figure out what works best for you!

Here's a couple of resources you can utilize:

Mom Goes Camping

Jake's Bones

BACCYFLAP

Nara National Research Institute for Cultural Properties

A Reddit Board in r/bonecollecting

[unofficialvulturecultureproblems]

A message from conservationists, please don't buy taxidermy bats or bat skeletons.

[unofficialvulturecultureproblems]

R u still accepting asks?

I live in a Chicago suburb that doesn’t have much woods (the wild animals we usually find are squirrels, birds, and the unusual rabbit)

How could I find animals that could possibly have died of natural causes (or just have been hit by a car and etc?)

I wanna start collecting bones and pelts and maybe feathers

First off: if you want to collect feathers please be mindful of the Migratory Bird Treaty Act. Most feathers are illegal to own here in the United States of America.

Animals are everywhere, and some adapt to suburban life better than others. You can find animals such as squirrels, rabbits, raccoons, heck even coyotes roaming inside cities!

Unfortunately finding animal remains can be much more tricky, especially if most of the land is private property. Roadkill is likely going to be your best bet. If you have any public spaces such as parks I'd recommend visiting those as well.

If you feel comfortable doing so, you could also try something like posting on Craigslist saying you're looking for animal remains. I've personally seen people advertising on my local Craigslist that they want to learn taxidermy and would love to take deceased animals from people, or asking hunters for unwanted remains to feed their pets for raw diets.

Sometimes letting people know about your hobbies can be rewarding. If people know you as the go-to for deads you might be gifted things by people who found a deceased animal in their yard, or they'll let you know when they find something. People might even let you know about known dumping sites. Never underestimate the power of connections!

Just like people who find things in more natural spaces, don't forget to get out and keep your eyes peeled. Good luck!

[unofficialvulturecultureproblems]

is heat a necessary factor in maceration & degreasing?

For the best results, yes.

If maceration water isn't kept warm ( around 85 degrees Fahrenheit is ideal ) it slows the decomp process down and there's also a higher change of adipocere aka coffin or grave wax forming on the bones. That's always a pain to remove so best to just try and avoid giving it an opportunity to develop whenever possible.

You definitely need heat for successful degreasing. The purpose of degreasing is to remove the fat ( grease ) out of the bones. To do this you need higher temperatures—85-115 degrees Fahrenheit is ideal—to basically melt the fat out of the bones. Some degreasing will happen in water with cooler temps but it's very slow and not at all thorough.

Some fish tank heaters will get to the temps you need but there are also bucket heaters you can buy that'll do the trick too. And if it gets warm enough where you live sometimes you can just take advantage of hot summer temps to keep maceration and degreasing water heated. You can use black or other dark colored containers to help hold the heat in too.

[unofficialvulturecultureproblems]

I recently have lost two of my rats and would like their bones for my alter should I bury them inside a cloth bag with dirt inside the bag of what are my other options to not lose any bones ?

First, I'm so sorry for your loss.

In theory, that could work, if you're using soil that has the right bacteria. If bugs could get access to it that would be more beneficial, but of course any time bugs have access there's greater risk of losing bones.

Another option you might want to try, or even just switch to after the body has rotted down a little, would be maceration. This is a much more controlled method that shouldn't result in any lost bones, and is also very simple to do.

If you want the fully cleaned skeleton, there's also the oxidation method, but I'm not sure I'd recommend doing it to a pet as it's a bit experimental until you get the hang of it.

Whatever you choose, I wish you the best of luck, and hope that this process can help you find peace and help with the grieving process.

[unofficialvulturecultureproblems]

Hey So-Cal area vultures, or anyone who could do the remote work, this is one heck of an opportunity!

I’m really overwhelmed with work and need help. I DO have a small budget. This will hopefully end in me hiring some people. 

But first and foremost I want to find people that actually interested in working in this admittedly weird area. 

People that would be willing to push past the admittely grosser aspects of working with dead stuff. 

People that might be willing to help me get more organized and bring in their own creativity, ideas and solutions.

Please help.

[unofficialvulturecultureproblems]

Hi, I'm new into Vulture Culture, my cat killed a mouse and it'll be my first time getting bones, how do I clean the bones and desinfect them? so I won't get any deseases that the mouse could carry

Well, hopefully the mouse wasn't carrying any diseases, otherwise your cat is definitely at risk for catching them.

Mice can carry diseases such as: -Hantavirus (can be spread to cats, but isn't usually problematic; can also be spread to people and cause severe problems) -Salmonella (can be spread to cats and people and cause problems) -Leptospirosis (can be spread to cats and humans and cause problems) -Toxoplasmosis (can be spread to cats and be a problem for pregnant people)

And more. Not to mention fleas, ticks, and worms, all of which come with their own problems (lyme disease, the plague, etc.). Another issue for your cat especially is sometimes mice are caught after ingesting poison from pest control efforts. These can be very deadly to your cat.

If your cat shows any symptoms of being sick, or if they're not on any kind of flea/tick/worm prevention, I recommend bringing your cat to the vet. Better safe than sorry.

As for safety on your end:

For starters, make sure you're wearing gloves when handling the dead mouse, and washing your hands thoroughly after you handle it (even if you were wearing gloves).

I would highly recommend freezing the mouse for a week or more to help kill any potential pests, such as fleas. Less than 10°F (-12.2222°C) sustained over a week is recommended for ticks. 10-14 days is even better.

When it comes to cleaning:

How you want to go about processing the mouse after that is up to you. Mice are fragile, so keep that in mind when choosing a method.

There's methods such as using rot pots, after you remove as much flesh as possible manually you can try oxidation, using dermestid beetles, maceration, or you can even try composting (similar to a rot pot). I wouldn't recommend simmering/using a crock pot as mice are small and fragile, or a bone cage since the bones would likely get lost. If you do rely on a rot pot, composting, or beetling, please be warned that some bones may become lost, or at the very least "migrate".

To get any remaining tissue, try scrubbing the bones with a toothbrush and some soap. Plain Dawn dish soap works great, as it's safe and also degreases bones.

Speaking of degreasing, after you got all the tissue off of the bones, you can also degrease them. I can't imagine a wild mouse would necessarily need this step, but it doesn't hurt. Soak the bones in warm soapy water and let it sit for a day or so. Change out the water if it looks cloudy, and repeat until the water stays pretty clear. I'd say this would be optional with a wild mouse, but you do you!

Then optionally you can also whiten with hydrogen peroxide. (If you don't have access to/want to buy salon grade hydrogen peroxide, the normal stuff in brown bottles you can get at pharmacies and such is fine.) If you're especially germaphobic this is a great way to feel safer about your bones. I would "check" them every 24 hours; take them out of the hydrogen peroxide, rinse, and dry them completely before deciding if you'd like to soak them any longer. Don't overdo it.

During any step of the cleaning process be prepared for teeth to fall out, and bones to separate.

[unofficialvulturecultureproblems]

gray fox & opossum skull pictures for ID reference. feel free to share/ repost etc.

both of the skulls pictured are missing some teeth. opossums have 50, and gray foxes have 42.