#zuko deserves better

[dylanaz]

Today I was watching 'The Princess and The Frog'. It's my favorite cartoon along with 'The Beauty and The Beast' and 'Tangled'.

After finished watching it, I realized one thing. Every one of the Disney cartoons I liked had very similar plots.

Basically, 'A woman and a man begin on a rough path and gradually start to know more about each other and then soften and fall in love and they get their happily ever after.'

The thing is, I am subconsciously more interested in movies or cartoons that show change. I'm not into the toxicity that happens in the beginning. I'm into the growth. I care about the overall story structure. Which means...

I couldn't care less about Zutara if it was just this.

But I care about every single thing that led them from that point to this.

I don't see it improper or toxic. I just see it as a story with a proper build. And I find it interesting. I love it.

In fiction, there are usually two kind of villains:

1. Those who end up toxic. (But fans love them because they're so bad and hot)

2. Those who end up as better people.

(Zuko's hot. So he must me in the first category, right? I mean, he is a villian. Once a villian, always a villian, right?)

Not shaming those who like the first one.

But you have to realize that Zuko is not a stagnant character. He IS a hero. So, you have to regard him as one despite whatever you ship. He's not someone who turns into a beast everytime he comes within 10 meter radius near Katara. He doesn't glitch back and forth between Book 1 to Book 3.

[darkcrowprincess]

Zuko thoughts:

Song that makes me think of Zuko and all the people he loves( Iroh, the gaang, which ever ship you have with zuko. My favorite is Zutara and Zukka) I'm a mess by Ed Sheeran

[muffinlance]

Edit: Yes, the original Sokka sexism arc is great and important. But we don't live in a world where the live action show runners decided to include it in the same form. So:

Unpopular opinion time: Sokka unlearning sexism isn't actually a large part of his character arc--it literally only takes the opening episodes. And removing it COULD be a sign that the live action is taking seriously the complaints I've seen from native fans about the original show runners deciding to make the Water Tribes that sort of sexist to begin with. Sokka's actual character arc is about gaining confidence and leadership skills, and they have the opportunity to focus on that MORE if they change the Kyoshi episode to focus on Suki as a fellow teenager forced into a leadership/protective role in her community and rocking it rather than using her as an object lesson on sexism for a male character to learn from. Whether they will ACTUALLY do that is on them, but it took me less than ten minutes to think up, so I sure hope someone in the writers' room actually cares about using the live action to expand on new angles of the characters. Big ask, I know.

Now the real question is: did they also remove Uncle Iroh's unwanted physical advances on a literally paralyzed Jun, and all of Zuko's snipes about girls? Because THOSE are the actually "iffy" sexism parts in AtLA, not Sokka's five minute arc.

[fanfic-lover-girl]

I was thinking the exact same thing! Is Zuko unmarriable now because his family sucks?? What about Mai? Why is it ok for her to have Ozai as a FiL but not Katara? Have Azula, who she supposedly feared and was seconds away from shooting lightning at her, as a SiL? Nothing makes sense!

Actually, I wasn't gonna reblog that zutara in-laws post, but the second I get a whiff of "Oh, it's so terrible for Katara to be married into Zuko's family," from antis, I'm calling bullshit. I don't think these people realize how ugly and stigmatizing it is to declare that abuse victims are forever marked by what their family did to them and that it would be such a hassle for someone else to love them. Get out of here with that nonsense.

There's also a not unsubtle helping of misogyny built in which I've seen in other fandoms where the female character who is considered more "pure" needs to be protected vs another female character who can "handle" the male character's family trauma. I see a lot of this from Mai and Zuko shippers and I don't think these people are doing Mai any favors.

[ukrainian-groove-metal]

you ever think about how Zuko had 3 years to come to terms with the fact that his father never loved him and Azula had like. two hours. like Zuko had this whole dramatic character arc where he struggled to do right and Iroh was there to support him meanwhile Ozai was like yeah here’s a hollow title shithead. gonna go burn the Earth Kingdom without you lol. if i got done dirty by my dad as bad as Azula got done i’d start shooting lightning with my hair down too.

[starlingchilde]

He deserved better

[longing-for-rain]

You know what gets me about Zutara and the hatred that has been directed towards it for nearly 20 years now is that Zutara is, fundamentally, a purely female fantasy.

Zutara was always written by and for women. Years ago, this fact was even used to mock it as something frivolous and stupid, the same way that most things women enjoy are mocked.

Zutara was created by fans. It was created by girls imagining something better for a female character they loved, and by extension, themselves.

Zutara is for all the girls who once caved to a boy’s romantic advances out of guilt and felt uncomfortable with that narrative on screen.

Zutara is for the girls who want to feel passion in a relationship.

Zutara is for the girls who want a partner who will love them through their darkest moments.

Zutara is for the girls who want a partner they don’t have to change for.

Zutara is for the girls who want to feel supported by a partner.

Zutara is for the girls who want a partner they don’t have to babysit.

And yes, Zutara is for the girls who want to be with a partner they find attractive. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

When people attack the idea of Zutara, this is fundamentally what they’re attacking—women and girls wanting better for themselves in a relationship. And I think that’s really sad. But I guess it makes a lot of sense in a world where women are being increasingly bombarded with tradwife propaganda and where 13 year old girls are stressing out about what kind of anti aging and diet products they should buy. We are in hell.

[kideaternomnom]

Fr plus Zuko haters always nitpick everything lmao

Aang haters are annoying at most, but Zuko haters are pure scary.

[forevermore05]

Katara's storyline and ending are so many WOC's worst nightmares.

Ending up as a yes-man

Raising children alone even while married

Being kissed without her consent (twice)

Being old and alone, with her grandkids not recognizing her

Not given credit for her contributions to society

Not bending into her old age

Being parentified at a young age

Coddling her partner which led to huge problems

Also, want to mention I HATE that Katara was parentified, but what I hate even more is when people dismiss her efforts entirely and give it to Sokka. The fact when women do these things it is seen as the norm but when men do it is Oscar-worthy. She deserves all her flowers.

Me being a Zutara shipper does not make my points invalid.

[katy-89]

I swear every time I read a post from the badger mole and any other hardcore zutara shipper i'm losing braincells. How can people take her seriously? :/ I get it, you all like zutara, but do you also like this series at all? Because you are literally rewriting this show and the main character to make a crack ship looks better, which is insane 🤦‍♂️

Mind you, this is Aang in the CANON SERIES

There are many other moments but i'm not wasting my time posting it

Also...Aang acknowledge Katara's beauty three times in the whole show. Oh my God, what a crime. That's means he only care about her beauty and nothing else 🤦‍♂️

It's insane how much this character is demonized because he had the audacity to fell in love with Katara

People, it's 2024

[fanfic-lover-girl]

Zutara gives Zuko better in-laws

I have heard several Asians express that you don't just marry a guy - you marry his family. And that has stuck with me.

I have seen so many Zutara vs Maiko posts but hardly anyone speaks about this aspect much. Sure, the Gaang are practically a family already. But just imagine Zuko officially being part of Katara's family. Sokka as a brother-in-law. Hakoda as a father-in-law. I can see Hakoda stepping up as a sort of father figure for Zuko, especially if he just wants some casual man-to-man advice or just wants to talk politics. Zuko would have a wonderful nuclear family again.

Compared to Mai's brown noser dad (didn't this guy help stage a coup against Zuko in the comics?) and a toddler brother who Mai seems to care very little about. Mai's family is just another version of the love-scarce aristocratic family he grew up in. Zuko deserves better than that.

[balanceoflightanddark]

This is what gets me. The comics take this hard line stance between good and evil, but by doing so, validates Ozai. I'm sorry, but speaking as somebody who was scared to death about being stabbed in the back for being autistic and not "being in line", these comics were a nightmare scenario.

Because Aang, AANG, a character I respected for years, said he'd put Zuko down if he acted like Ozai. A character that I and so many others saw so much in and adored, was made to say something that validated every dark fear we ever had.

But hey. Let's say they're right. Let's say that evil people need to be killed and taken down.

So let me ask a simple question.

WHY IS OZAI STILL ALIVE?

He is alive and is actively trying to manipulate Zuko into becoming like himself. How come he gets a free pass while Azula or even Zuko are condemned for even being like him? He's family? Bullshit, the comics said it was okay for Zuko to harass and abuse Azula even though she was family. And apparently friendship means nothing if you're in danger of being evil. So let me ask again.

WHY.

IS.

OZAI.

STILL.

ALIVE?

they managed to massacre Aang's character and all the struggle and importance of his choice in the finale in a SINGLE page, and yet there are people who think the comics are good

and of course Katara's would have nothing to say on the matter, toootally in-character

Not to mention: yes, Zuko is right that a lifetime of indoctrination won't magically stop affecting him just because he's aware of it now, but the way the comics really said "If you're not perfect, you deserve to die. Not rehabilitation, not even incarceration despite it being an option, just straight to violent, lethal punishment" is horrying.

And lets not forget the blatant abuse apologism of having Zuko, the kid who was told by his abusive parent that his disfigurement and banishment was "for his own good" after he made one "mistake", turning to his closest friends and asking them to be his "safety net" by MURDERING HIM IF EVER STEPS OUT OF LINE - and said friends then agree to it.

Are you fucking kidding me? The real Aang would have double-down on the "You're NOT your father" bit, and the entire friend group would have been super concerned about Zuko because a victim of abuse saying they're as bad as their abuser thus deserve to die is one hell of a red flag as to how their mental health is going.

Speaking of mental health: I talk a lot about how Azula was constantly being abused by the supposed heroes in the comics, and how the justification of it is rooted in ableism, but this nonsense with Zuko asking to be put down like a dog is also peak victim blaming, and one of the few moments in which one can actually feel bad for comics!Zuko.

And it ties into a disturbing pattern I noticed among Avatar fans - and mainly Zuko fans. They don't truly understand that what Ozai put his children through was wrong, they simply think he chose the wrong kid as the escapegoat. They think Azula should have been the one that is constantly punished just for existing, while Zuko is the golden child that can do no wrong - or else.

This moment right here? With the people that he trusts agreeing to inflict violence on him if he ever makes a mistake? This is that "or else". This is literally the same mentality that led to Azula's breakdown because NO ONE CAN SURVIVE UNDER THAT MUCH PRESSURE.

And that leads us to the main reason why the comcis suck: Yang was using Zuko as a self-insert.

"Zuko‘s relationship with Ozai is something we – Mike, Brian, Dark Horse, Nickelodeon, and I – talked about extensively when we first started working together. There’s this strange thing that happens to people in power. The pressures of power often blur the lines between enemies. That’s part of what happens to Zuko here. Ozai is the only one who knows what it’s like to be Fire Lord, the only one who has the wisdom of experience. I also looked at my own life. I used to clash with my dad quite a bit when I was a teenager. However, as I grew up and found myself in roles that he used to have, I began to understand more and more of his decisions. My father isn't thoroughly evil, of course, but I imagine Zuko feels a little of the same pull."

Yang. My guy. My dude. The words "Ozai" and "wisdom" should NEVER be in the same sentence. Every single action of Ozai's as Fire Lord was based on him being an abusive piece of shit that finally got access to absolute power. He is not a stern dad, he is abusive. He's not misunderstood, he needed to be stopped and locked away. He is a human being with feelings and motivations, yes, but he is WRONG ABOUT LITERALLY EVERYTHING EVER. He NEVER had a point. Zuko has nothing to learn from him except what NOT to do. That's why he looks like an older, unscarred Zuko. A version of Zuko that never changed.

This is the core issue of the comics, and why it had so many moments of unintentional abuse apologism: they say Ozai is a villain, but they're going out of their way to constantly make the characters come dangerously close to saying "Maybe he had a point." That's why they have Zuko turn to Ozai for advice despite claiming he wants to avoid becoming like him - because the guy writting them couldn't understand that the bad guy was, in fact, bad and in the wrong and has no wisdom to offer to anyone.

Avatar, the series, is about the world moving past from the sick mentality people like Ozai had, and about his son realizing that he did not deserve to be abused. The Avatar Comics are about telling Zuko (and others) "Ozai isn't wrong actually, you'll understand when you're older."

No, Yang, they won't. Because there's nothing to "understand" here other than THE GUY THAT ABUSED HIS CHILDREN AND COMMITED GENOCIDE WAS WRONG ABOUT EVERYTHING, YOU DUMBASS!

Saying "the villain had a point" does not make a story better unless it is true - and in Ozai's case, it simply isn't. Insisting otherwise doesn't make the story and characters more mature, it just means you couldn't understand a cartoon aimed at 7-year-olds despite being a grown-ass man.

And I won't even get into Bryke approving of this bullshit otherwise I'll start tearing my hair out in rage at how badly they seem to have lost touch with the message of their best work, so let me just use a simple statemet to make everyone understand just how much of a disaster this is:

Even M. Night Shyamalan didn't misunderstand ATLA to the point of thinking Ozai wasn't actually wrong, but Bryan, Mike and Yang did. The comics understand the show less than M. Night Shyamalan did.

I rest my fucking case.

[awesome-normal-heroes]

Katara has every right to be angry at Zuko...

... he may not have been the one that tried to destroy Aang, but he joined that person's side...

... and the spirit water that Katara used to heal Aang...

... could've been used on Zuko and he might've joined Azula anyway...

... meaning that Aang most likely would've died that night, if she made that choice...

... and she probably thought about that a LOT while Aang was in his coma...

... it's no wonder it took her the longest to forgive Zuko.

[wilcze-kudly]

I do find it annoying how a lot of Zutara fans tweak the character's stories, personalities and even the timelines to suit their own needs.

Once again, there's nothing wrong with fanon and headcanons, however if looking through the lense of canon, you're objectively wrong.

I ended up stumbling on a post from a Zutara shipper. (At this point I'm regretfully considering not following the tags for Zuko or Katara because I get way too much Zutara content lol) I'm not replying directly to her because I don't want this to turn into an argument, and I know she doesn't take criticism very well.

Ok, So let's break this down.

The character who was first out of the group to trust Zuko?

I'm quite sure this is referring to the scene in Ba Sing Se's caves. And yes, that is a very important scene. I think it's a very important scene preceeding Zuko's 'relapse'. It shows how he's matured during his time in Ba Sing Se and therefore it serves to add to our dismay when he joins Azula. I adore the fact that Zuko's journey to redemption is not linear, it certainly adds a lot to the character and shows us how his trauma affected him.

It's also a horrific moment for Katara. To have her worldview on Zuko and firebenders as a whole challenged, and then for it to go blowing up in her face. It rips open old wounds of her childhood. It refreshes her resentment of Zuko and the Fire Nation as a whole. It parallels the death of her mother when Aang dies due to Azula's lighting and she is unable to do anything about it. It places her back in that spot of helplessness. Even though she's grown up, even though she's a master waterbender, she still comes a hair's breadth to losing one of the most important people in her life.

No wonder she hated Zuko so much after this.

It's an important moment for both characters, but I wouldn't say it is that in a romantic sense. It's a sweet, hopeful moment that then turns absolutely horrific and visceral for both parties.

I could argue that there are other characters who could be given the title of 'first to trust Zuko'. Funnily, Appa being one of them lol.

But other characters trusting Zuko dovetails nicely into the next point.

The character who emotionally connects to Zuko?

Well, technically, I'd argue that most members of the Gaang connect emotionally on one level or another with him?

But I'd argue that Aang is the person Zuko connected with the most. Aang is Zuko's parallel. Aang is the first person to reach out to Zuko. Aang is the person who showed mercy to Zuko, multiple times. Aang is the person who valued Zuko's life, the life of someone whose whole life goal is to capture him.

This was also an incredibly important moment to Zuko. This is the thing he brings up when trying to convince the Gaang to let him join.

Zuko: Why aren't you saying anything? You once said you thought we could be friends. You know I have good in me.

The character Zuko feels safest letting his guard down around?

It's Mai. Love her or hate her, her relationship with Zuko is incredibly important to him. Maiko isn't my favourite Zuko ship, in full honesty. But even platonically, Mai and Zuko are one another's reprieve from their respective shitty lives.

People often talk about Katara touching Zuko's scar while discussing healing his scar, however one could argue that she did so as a medical examination. Mai touching Zuko's scar is a casual thing, neither of them really make a big deal of it and that's the beauty of it.

I'm mainly talking out of my own personal experience, as someone with a huge amount of burn scars, but there is a world of difference between someone inspecting my scars like Katara did and simply accepting them as a part of me, like Mai does for Zuko.

With Mai, Zuko isn't the scarred banished prince, Ozai's son or Azula's brother. He's just Zuko. And they speak freely with one another, arguing like real people do. Often, being comfortable having arguments is actually a sign of being comfortable with one another.

The character who helps Zuko heal from his trauma?

Once again, this is a bit of a flawed question. By the end of the show, Zuko isn't even fully healed, in my opinion. He has made leaps and bounds on the road to recovery, but when he will truly heal if ever is yet to be seen.

Zuko's journey to recovery includes plenty of people. This includes Iroh, Aang, Song and Jin. People who show him the error of his coping mechanism. Who challenge his worldview, who coax him out of the his shell of pain and anger.

The character known for showing most compassion to others?

Yes, Katara's compassion is a huge part of her character. Her need to help and protect those who cannot do that for themselves cannot be understated.

But Aang's compassion for others and all beings is just as great, if not greater than Katara's. Compassion and nonviolence are huge parts of his culture and his own philosophy.

Aang: Wait, we can't just leave him here. Sokka: Sure we can. Let's go. Aang :No, if we leave him he'll die. Aang airbends himself off Appa and retrieves Zuko, bringing him to Appa. Sokka: [Sarcastically.] Yeah, this makes a lot of sense. Let's bring the guy who's constantly trying to kill us.

Friendly reminder that Aang could've absolutely wrecked Ozai, but held back because his own moral compass was so powerful. Hell, he was friendly and nice to Azula, the woman who literally killed him.

This is why Aang and Katara work so well together. They're both incredibly compassionate people who will immediately jump in to help others in need. Like they did during the Painted Lady, destroying the factiry together.

The character who primarily bears the burden of having to step up into a parental role?

I think "parental role" is an incredibly vague term. There's a lot of things that go into a "parental role". Katara plays a stereotypically "maternal" role, while someone who plays a "paternal" one would probably be Sokka.

Katara deals with very "homemaking" tasks like sewing and cooking, etc. And Sokka often takes on the role of leader, hunter, gatherer and also protector, despite being a nonbender.

This coincides nicely with their core childhood traumas. The loss of Katara's mother impacted her greatly, leading her to have to step up into a motherly role. While Sokka was clearly heavily traumatised by his father departing and the crushing responsibility of having to care for his entire village.

Sexism also probably played a part in this dichotomy.

The character who represses their emotions to be strong for others?

I'd argue that this could apply to all the members of the Gaang in some capacity.

Aang's pain is something most of us will never experience and cannot hope to understand. The complete horrific destruction of his culture and home followed him through the entire show. He was entitled to his grief and rage, yet he supressed it. We see during Appa's kidnapping, how easy it would be for Aang to rage, to let himself be destructive. And yet, he wakes up every day and chooses to smile and goof off, because his friends need someone to remind them how to be children.

Sokka puts on a very impressive bravado, despite having a lot of insecurities. However, as the oldest member of the Gaang (pre Zuko) he puts on a facade of the confident and unbothered older brother. Even if he's the butt of almost every joke, he still keeps that demeanour up, letting it slip only a few times.

I'd actually argue that Toph is the person whom this label fits best. While we know Toph as witty, callous and strong, we have to remember that she kept up the facade of her parents' good, helpless little blind girl for no reason other than her mother and father's comfort. She actually hides a lot of her hurt, covering it up with a prickly exterior.

I want to do longer think pieces about Toph and Katara so apologies if this isn't complete.

I'm actually baffled by the idea of Katara repressing her emotions. She's actually quite straightforward and open about her feelings. She yells and feels a lot of emotions and lets them be heard. She gets angry and sad. She's actually kinda bitchy sometimes and that's honestly why I love her so much.

The whole inciting incident of the show was her getting so pissed off she somehow pulls a giant iceberg from the bottom of the sea.

She is anything but repressed.

She is angry.

She's angry at the fire nation, at Sokka, at her father, at men, and with good right to be so.

This is what makes her an amazing character and one who broke the mould of a lot of female characters at the time. Her anger and unrestrained emotions rang true with a lot of watchers at the time. I'm not sure why this is being taken away from her rather than celebrated.

I reiterate the point I made at the beginning of this post: there is nothing wrong with headcanons and fanon interpretations for one's enjoyment. I do find it a bit odd when it changes a character too much (because then, why not just create an oc?) but it's all in good fun. However, you shouldn't push that onto other people and how they perceive canon and you certainly shouldn't use it to take away from other characters. It's a very unfair way of entering discourse.

[queen-morgana91]

"Why do people dislike Zuko/Zutara stans??"

Mmmh

🤦‍♂️

Sorry but I can't stay silent anymore, these posts are insane

Aang: a kid/genocide survivor lashing out because his best friend and only living link to his people has been stolen. The avatar state (a power he is afraid of) was a response to losing another part of his home, the only person connecting him to his past and eradicated culture

Katara: saw Aang loosing control in the avatar state and CHOSE to be at his side and help him, because she KNOW what's it's like having your loved ones stolen from you, she is hurt from seeing him hurting because she's an empathetic person and she loves him. She's comforting a friend during an emotional crisis.

Zutara/Zuko's stans: Ugh violent destructive tantrums save yourself katara! Zuko <3

Mh ok.

It's funny because those people are stanning a character who called Katara a peasant and threatened to wipe her village and only were in good terms in the last few episodes. They are stanning a character who was a villain/antagonist for two seasons (and half of season 3) who tried to kill her and her friends over and over again. But that's ok, he suffered and redeemed himself in the last 3 episodes, so it doesn't matter, while everything the abuser/toxic Aang """did""" was beyond forgiveness.

That's the message of Avatar the Last Airbender :)

The way people in this fandom are so unempathetic towards a 12 year old who lost everything is so crazy to me.

These episodes are full of sad moments with a lot of hurt behind it. These are all children (child soldiers also) overwhelmed by moments of severe loss. These children are human and they have flaws.

This is why being a fan of most animated content sucks as their fanbases have the intellectual capacity of a goldfish

[firelily-mermaid-jedi]

I am just so, so tired of the idea that this was a jerk move by Zuko when actually this proves what a good person he is on two fronts.

First, his options are letter or no letter. He could have left without leaving her a message at all--THAT would have been the jerk move. Leaving the letter shows he did care about Mai on some level even if she didn't deserve it. He had no idea where Mai's loyalties lie. She could have ratted him out to Azula for all he knows! But he still felt that she should know that he was and why he was leaving

Second, as he states in the episode he did it to Protect Her! Once again, showing her a level of care she has never shown him.

But people want to insist that this was a morally reprehensible act on Zuko's part because they need a reason to justify their dislike of him.

Zuko deserves better.

was going through my drafts and uhhhh she had some points 💅