#you either are a normal shipper or a fetishizer there is no in between

[sirenascales]

I just know for a fact that, ignoring the creepy shit that Himeno did, the csm fandom would still hate her for "getting in the way" of the akiangel ship because nothing screams anime fan more than raging misogyny and a weird obsession with mlm ships because women?????? To hell with them!

[coles-scythe]

Welcome!!

Jay || They/He || Artist || ♤♡ || ASD + ADHD

-> This is my self shipping side blog, where I get to be so normal over fictional people. This is NOT a fandom blog, though fandom blogs are welcome to interact.

-> My main is @jay-sketchin, my art blog! However, I reblog most things to my personal blog @stfu-im-thinking-abt-blorbo. I also run @draw-your-self-ship!!

-> I take art and (MLP) base edit commissions!! See this post from my main for more information!!

-> My hyperfixations change a lot! So please don't follow me expecting a lot of one content or another. Currently I'm super invested in Pokémon (mainly Scarlet), Persona (3+4 especially), and rhythm games like D4DJ, BanG Dream, and Guitar Hero!

-> My #1 main romantic F/O of all time is Tohru Adachi from Persona 4 and I'm extremely uncomfortable sharing him! Doubles are okay to interact and follow, but please don't reblog any of my posts tagged with "🃏 Jester's Hunger" (my ship tag for him) if we share. Also, as comes with the territory, my entire blog is riddled with spoilers for Persona 4, and all other media I post about.

-> I currently don't have a main F/O that I'm hyperfixated aside from Adachi! I'm kinda just floating between thinking about most of my self ships, especially for P4, Guilty Gear, Ninjago, and Tekken. Here’s my list for all of my F/Os!! Other than Adachi, the only one I'm uncomfortable sharing is Jin Kazama!

-> I've also got a list of my self inserts! It's a massive WIP and includes some of my OCs that either appear in multiple of my AUs or are important in at least one AU. Please note that if a character is listed as an OC on this blog, then it is NOT a self insert unless specified otherwise!

-> On that note, this blog WILL include both OC x Canon and Canon x Canon ships that are included in my AUs. For filtering purposes, I will be tagging all Canon x Canon ships with an emoji and their ship name, minus the -shipping suffix in certain names. (E.G. "🌙AraShu" for Shinjiro x Minato in my Persona 3 AU and "⚔️Samurai" for Nya x Pixal in my Ninjago AU, shortened from "Samuraishipping".)

Do NOT Interact:

General DNI criteria (MAP, Zoo, TERF, exclusionist, zionist, bigot, etc.)

Pro shippers, their supporters, neutrals, and toxic anti shippers

Loli/Shotacons and their supporters

NSFW/Kink/Fetish blogs

Adults who self ship with minors

People who self ship with real people (Celebrities, musicians, YouTubers, including YouTuber alter egos and roleplay characters like MCYT creators)

Self shippers who age up/down their F/Os or self inserts are on very thin ice. This will be judged on a case-by-case basis. (General guideline is if you shipped with them while you were a minor and got older, they have a real world birthdate before yours, or if your F/O's source canonically uses timeskips to age the chatacters up, then you'll get a pass.)

Fandom DNI:

I'm fine with fandom blogs following this blog if they come across it, but I still have a few boundaries I'd like to make clear for my own comfort.

YouTuber fandoms (E.G. MCYT, BBS, etc.)

Harry Potter fandom, including those who do not support J.K. Rowling

Hetalia + Countryhumans fandoms

Yandere Simulator fandom, including those who do not support YandereDev

Your Boyfriend Game fandom

Lloyd/Ninja shippers, especially Green//flame (Ninjago)

TDI Reboot cast x any cast prior to 2023 shippers (Total Drama)

Protagonists/Adult Social Links+Confidants shippers, especially Shu//Ada (Persona)

If you engage in a lot of Naoto gender discourse. I use They/He/She pronouns for them and headcanon them as Non Binary/Genderfluid. (Persona)

Some Userbox Stuff About Me, For The Funsies Lol

[aconstantstateofbladerunner]

I think you mentioned it a few times... But can we get a peak at anything left on the cutting room floor for Dekugate? Notes, cut contact, ect? If you feel okay with that! I just love this story and wanna see all your thoughts on it, even what didn't make the cut. Kinda like dvd extras I guess ahahh.

HOWEVER I get you cut some things for a reason and know how tumbler can be and don't want drama, so it's cool if you just don't feel comfortable with that.

There are two main story elements that got cut.

The first one is that there was originally going to be more of a subplot around Izuku having crushes on both Uraraka and Aoyama. I say ‘crushes,’ but it was closer to what it ended up being where he’s not sure how to feel about them or the idea of being close like that with anyone. When Izuku learned about dekugate, the internal conflict would shift to how his toxic fans would treat them. They’d hate Uraraka for being a girl since aggressive shippers tend to view male/female relationships as inherently lesser, but with Aoyama, they’d just be fetishized. But i worried that having overt shipping stuff like that would overwrite the focus on the fic in the minds of readers; the relationships would be seen as what’s at stake instead of Izuku’s mental health on its own. When I decided to cut it down from a subplot into a background detail, I favored the Uraraka parts because they fit neatly into the more misogyny-focused critiques.  And why did I end up focusing on that part?  For one, as a female-bodied person, misogyny, particularly misogyny coming from other women, is something I have more experience in and thus felt I had more to say.  That, and I worried that even if i made careful critiques about how women in fandom often fetishize gay men via reductive stereotypes and how applying that fandom behavior to real life people can cause harm, people would just see it as “ew gay ships are bad.”  If I were to ever do some kind of follow up, I’d give more time to the fetishization side of things.

The second major cut was a lot more detail about the backstory of Toshi and Inko’s relationship, as well as an expository dump of refutations for every single insane thing the dekugaters claimed.  Most of it was stuff so obvious, it really didn’t need to be spelled out, (why aren’t they holding hands and smiling in every photo?  because no one smiles and holds hands at every single moment, even two people in love.)  The rest was either shaved down to just the most relevant bits, or left to implication.

I’ll summarize the highlights under the cut:

- Toshinori was interested in Inko right away since by that point, he was the symbol of peace and constantly surrounded by hero worship.  Between being a naturally anxious person and the paranoia that comes with fame, he didn’t think it was possible for anyone to ever fall for the real him.  Then he met Inko, someone who called him a show-boating poser to his face, and fell head over heels right there.

- It’s only hinted at briefly in the fic itself, but Toshi didn’t come from a great home.  His hang ups about Izuku being named after someone came from the fact that he himself was named after a great grandfather in an attempt by Toshi’s mother to appease his anger for having a kid out of wedlock, with an American tourist no less.  He was already looked down on by his conservative family for being illegitimate, but once his mother ‘properly’ married and starting having more kids, they emotionally neglected him even more.  By the time he moved out to live with Gran Torino, they barely noticed he was gone.

- Inko’s biological parents were a low-level thug for hire who bounced between gangs, and her mother was a sex worker who gave her up for adoption, then later died of an overdose when Inko was a toddler.  None of this was particularly relevant for Inko growing up, but the dekugaters would eventually dig up the records and use them to fling accusations.  But until then, Inko had a fairly normal childhood all things considered.  She didn’t bounce around foster families too often, and the ones she had were good people.  Mitsuki was in the same home as her for a few years, and they kept in touch after she was adopted.

- Inko’s hero’s journey began when she was eleven.  She and some friends stopped at a convenience store to grab some snacks after school, when a villain took the whole place hostage.  Nobody was hurt, but it took almost two hours for any heroes to even show up, during which Inko thought she was going to die.  Afterward, she needed to know why it took so long for help to come.  This was a time before heroes were on every street corner, and her neighborhood was outside of the nearest agencies’ ranges.  She decided to fill in the gap herself.

- Her UA career wasn’t all that eventful.  She got into the hero course by using her quirk to pull all the bolts out of the robots, but she didn’t make it to the tournament stage of the sports festival until her third year, at which point she was eliminated in the first round.  Instead of going straight into hero work, she went to college to study management and urban engineering so she would have everything she needed to run a self-sufficient hero agency.  Before the dekugaters, she had plans to construct a new agency building that doubled as a community center.

- One of the big dekugate brain rot posts i eliminated before writing was a timeline breaking down Inko’s pregnancy to ‘prove’ it was fake, complete with the exact date they believed izuku would have been conceived on and it’s impossible because All Might was seen doing something else not with Inko that day.  This is unfortunately based on real posts.  But since I cut it, it didn’t need it’s refutation, which is that the dekugaters’ stalking isn’t as accurate as they think.  Their dates were top to bottom wrong, with inko becoming pregnant way later than they thought and Izuku being born prematurely.

- Their dating timelines were also screwed up, but mostly because they refused to believe All Might would commit to anyone so fast when ‘they were barely seen together’ aka if something doesn’t appear on social media, it doesn’t exist.

- Izuku still went to Aldera in this universe for 3 reasons: it’s in the neighborhood his Mom works in and he wanted the chance to see her on action walking to and from school; he still saw Bakugou as his only friend and he wanted to have someone he knew at his first public school experience; he played down all the bullying and quirkless discrimination to his parents until after he let for UA, otherwise they would have homeschooled him again and he didn’t want to be isolated anymore.

- izuku’s UA experience up to the point of the fic has been largely unchanged from canon.  This is because this is supposed to be a small, self-contained fic and it’s a lot easier for readers to understand when the conspiracy posts reference canon events.

- Melissa does know about the conspiracy, but just the part about her dad and uncle being together, none of the fake kid stuff around Izuku.  But because most of that fandom likes her, not many people have been obnoxious enough for her to think it runs any deeper than a few overzealous shippers.

If there are any other weird conspiracy claims from the fic you want context for, just let me know

[neonponders]

From the Book of Who Asked, I bring you

~Things I’m tired of in this fandom ~

1. Complaining about Anti’s.

Someone needs to be the heretical aunt at the family reunion and it’s me. Stop complaining about anti’s. Either ban them or fuck ‘em. Make up your mind and shut up about it. Yes, I’ve complained too, but if a blog is putting out more posts about anti’s than a ship, you’re not a ship blog. You’re a hate blog. Which makes you as bad as them. Let that sink in.

2. Complaining about Dacre’s Feet.

Millennials found out about fetishes fifteen years ago and proceeded to let NO ONE REST ever since. I’ve ranted about this before, but human beings are literally supposed to be barefoot. Shoes fuck up the muscles in your feet. The feet are stronger and healthiest when barefoot, with calluses. Actors who’ve done extensive physical training know this. You see it all the time in Dacre, Hugh Jackman, Chris Hemsworth, etc. etc. Ironically, they’re all Australian -> a place that is huge on outdoor activities.

All of you need to touch grass and soft dirt with your feet and calm the hell down. These men are right. You’re wrong. Go run around a baseball diamond barefoot and realize you’ve been wrong your whole life. Get dirty for god sake. You’ll be fine, I promise. The experience of running over a random pebble might build character too.

Preferring bare feet over shoes is normal and literally better for your health. Let the man live, good grief. If he had a fetish, he would be posting other people’s feet, not his own. And even so, foot fetishes are the most harmless fetish out there. Look up fisting gloves and maybe you’ll lighten up.

3. Numbers. Don’t. Matter.

Okay, yeah, being the #1 ship for years is pretty rad. It was the easiest defense against haters who went after a fictional character with more gusto than political elections.

And you know what? Numbers didn’t matter then, either.

Here’s a shout out to the rare-pair shippers and small fandom creators because you guys have your heads screwed on right. The point to all of this, is ~fun~. Not competition.

5 years from now, there’s going to be a ST renaissance and all of the teenage assholes are going to have the life experience to see this show entirely differently. Remember how everyone in the HP fandom went from mourning and uwu-ing over Snape, to utterly despising him and how he abused Harry? Yeah. That’s going to happen. How exciting.

4. Steddie vs Harringrove vs God

Look, even I’m tired to Edward Theodore Munson IV. His fandom is Too Much™. I’m a quiet fan, because I still enjoy watching him immensely. I hugely enjoy the Eddissy ship (I firmly believe that anyone against Eddissy is a misogynist against Chrissy, but that’s a separate rant). I enjoy Steddie, Harringroveson, & Mungrove because it’s another way of seeing Steve and Billy being soft and loved on. And it’s cool to see JQuinn go from a small role-nobody to being able to retire if he wanted to. That’s an actor’s dream.

But the difference between Billy/fandom and Eddie/fandom, is that they’re opposites of each other. Fandom makes Billy better. Fandom is making Eddie worse. And the hyper surge of fame, as much as it’s giving to JQuinn, is also super cruel and uncomfortable.

Let the train crash itself. Seek the artists, editors, writers, etc. who are chill, inclusive, and make delightful content. They’re worth finding. Fuck the rest.

5. TikTok

Get the hell off tiktok. Or watch Dylan B Hollis -> someone who actually matters.

[voxvulpina]

Hello, fellow anti-sessrinner here and I have a bone to pick with the way you worded one of your answers in your last couple of asks, this sentence right here: “You can't expect a 10 year old to look at a romanticised portrayal of a grown man getting with a 14 year old or of siblings screwing or whatever sick shit proshippers are into.”

You do realize anti Sessrins are not like regular antis and run the gamut from your standard fandom antis to outright proshippers don’t you? I happen to be the latter of the (same sex and consensual adults only) of the two and I resent the fact that my shipping preferences are being put in the same category as the outright criminal lolicons and pedos. First of all there is absolutely a group of us out there (me and my friends in particular) who are caught in the middle of general shipping discourse. We’re generally pro-ship in most ways on a variety of subjects such as dubcon, non-con, toxic dynamics and yes, incest, but we absolutely draw the line at ships that depict pedophilia and/or child grooming and hate that we’re being associated with the loli and shots crowd. The difference between our ships and theirs is that at least our ships are actually legal and are between two adults with an equal power dynamic while they’re consuming literal child porn.

Also shipping problematic content such as incest and whatnot at least has nothing to say about what type of person you are, someone with maybe a weird and little gross fetish to most regular people okay, but as soon as you touch anything with a child in it you’re automatically a pedo suspect, and me and my kind would prefer not being lumped in with the actual criminals thanks.

The proshipping vs anti debates aren’t so black and white like either side makes it out to be, there absolutely are some of those stuck in the middle who feel like we don’t completely belong in either side. Running in proship circles means we risk having to see child porn and being associated with pedos when a lot of us are just proship for anything and everything that’s NOT pedo/grooming content.

Regardless all of us anti-sessrins are here for one thing and one thing only: We believe fiction affects reality when it comes to the minds of impressionable young children and don’t want the romantization of pedophilic grooming dynamics being normalized and aimed at their age demographic This shit is actually very serious and dangerous so let’s not muddy the issue with talk of petty general shipping politics.

Also FYI, the hardest of hardcore of the raisins have come after Inucest shippers as well (I’m not personally one, my brother/brother ships lie in other fandoms but I do have friends of mine who have been attacked) remember that 10k stalk list that put people on it for simply headcanoning Sesshomaru as gay? Like it or not we’re all in this together as a fandom against Sessrin and Yashahime as a whole.

Look, Anon, nothing you've written changes the fact that incest - yes, fictional incest too - is sick and gross. Let's imagine for a second that, instead of taking the pedo route with SessRin, HNY had gone with InuSess. I'm pretty sure we HNY Antis would be exactly where we are now, protesting about young viewers being made to watch a positive depiction of an incestuous relationship.

As far as I'm aware, the entire reason Antis in this fandom have no issue with InuSess shippers is that they KNOW their ship is problematic. They don't pretend otherwise and tag it accordingly. Antis in this fandom, myself included, aren't that fussed with what people support in fanon, as long as we're not jumpscared or made to run headlong into problematic content. People can absolutely ship InuSess or whatever, but please don't ask me to pretend it's not gross. You really resent the fact I called sibling incest "sick"? I mean, isn't it? You disagree on the fact that incestuous relationships are sick? You said "at least they're legal", but I believe intimate sibling relationships are in fact a criminal offence in most places ☠️

[shit-talk-turner]

Alex used to call her his little sister and she hated it. she was also with someone too and not interested in him at all. She said some shit things about his personality and his looks. // o

Anon since you used real people I’m assuming this story is true but even more so to be really honest I never saw her liking him either lol she practically told us. I actually see the chemistry on stage between them as any other duet I’ve ever watched. It’s normal for musical duets to have chemistry. She’s talented and so is he. Not everything is some sort of sexual ship.

I think because she has bangs and is beautiful everyone kind of shipped them and I sensed she really fucking hated the implications. I would . I don’t care if you’re Alex Sex Face Turner . If as a woman I was trying to make my debut with my own hard work and then had all these online shipper fans trying to fabricate stories about how I fucked him I would hate him and them for tarnishing my name. And rightfully so. It’s actually really fucking awful how women and men can’t just coexist. But because she’s hot and he is hot everyone fetishizes it. Also she told everyone to stop mentioning him because it was eclipsing her career and had a fit over all this.

Aren’t you guys tired? I’m not being an ass just stating what she already implied. She’s moved on.

We’re not pushing an agenda here…like we don’t want them together now, we know she’s moved on and also is way too good for him. Also he doesn’t need a girlfriend right now, or even a therapist, he kinda needs his mom to come pick him up, yeah? We’re just really really interested in what went down and our curiosity will never die and so no, we’re not tired. We’re waiting for the Alexandra biopic.

[lesbian-vmin]

Why do you think Vmin are "allowed" these questionable (at least for those who ship them) moments? I find it curious that some things are really pushed to the front (jikook for sure), and then sometime we get the vmin moments and left to wonder are they real or fanservice? I really despise the thought that either Jimin/V/other members are doing this on purpose, because they genuinely seem authentic (as much as a celebrity can be on camera), 1/2

Honestly, the whole moment of Jimin saying that he didn’t keep in touch with his members at all was pretty weird. Jimin, since day one, has painted himself as someone who loves his members very much. He doesn’t want to be away from them for too long, and he seems more interested with collaborating with each one of them individually before moving onto people outside of his group. This might be why we don’t have him collaborating with other artists while Jungkook, Hoseok, Namjoon, and Yoongi have all done so. And of course BTS as a whole. (I don’t think Taehyung and Jin have? But I might be forgetting something) And Jimin has a great voice. There’s no reason anyone wouldn’t want to feature him in a song. So I’m sure there are people who want to collaborate with him, and I imagine he’s gotten offers. (This is relevant to the ask, I promise.) Although language barriers may be a reason (he might not be as comfortable collaborating with people he can’t communicate with well as some of the others are, excluding Namjoon (and maybe Jungkook is getting there) who is better at English.)

So we can look at this several ways. We can take Jimin at his very minimal word and assume that he didn’t communicate with his members at all during his vacation. In which case, I would assume that he took it as a very much needed break from them, and decided to focus on the time that he was able to spend with his family. Or, we can assume that not every word is 100% true. Maybe when he says he didn’t keep in contact, he doesn’t mean that he didn’t keep in contact at all. Maybe he messaged them once in a while to see how they were doing, but didn’t contact them regularly. Maybe he did keep in contact with them, but just wasn’t talking about his vacation. They could have talked about anything under the sun, but since they weren’t sharing vacation details, he may have counted that as not keeping in contact. Because people would question, “mm, if you guys were in contact regularly, why don’t you know details about each other’s vacations?” If they happen to be talking about something, and another member seems to not know the information. He didn’t want to give anyone a reason to question things like that. We can also wonder if he did, in fact, keep in contact with them, but he doesn’t want to share certain things about the members and his personal time. So he just told us that he didn’t stay in contact with them. I don’t know whether to take Jimin at his word for that specific moment, but I also don’t think it matters whether they stayed in contact or not. Even if the members are close and consider each other friends or family, they don’t have to remain in contact at all times. I don’t think it’s weird for friends to go on vacation (say, home for the holidays) and not talk to each other. In fact, it’s the truest friends that can come back after not speaking for a week to months at a time and act like normal (instead of being awkward each other). Act like no time was lost. (At least this is how I see it because it’s how I am with my friends. I don’t typically keep in regular contact with people who aren’t physically around me [I don’t text much, so unless someone like talking on the phone or video chatting, we probably wouldn’t stay in contact while apart] because I like to enjoy the company of those I am actually with. This might have been the case for them. It doesn’t mean they aren’t close or don’t care about each other.)

Disclaimer. This post may talk about topics that could offend easily offended people. If you are easily offended. Don’t read. You have been warned. Also I talk a lot about both Jikook and Vmin in here. Skip to the Vmin part if (for whatever reason) you don’t want to read about Jikook. But I’d rather you really read the whole post because this goes beyond shipping and focuses on them as people.

JIKOOK

The way Jikook is pushed to the front to me is actually one of the things that make me feel like they are fan service a lot of the times. (I’m not saying anything bad about Jikook because it’s pretty obvious that Jimin and Jungkook both adore each other and love being around each other, but they really are pushed quite hard and obviously.) I don’t know why that is. I don’t know the company’s reason behind pushing Jikook so hard, but I have at least one idea as to why they would do so (if they aren’t a couple). Because Jungkook is the “manliest” member of the group, and Jimin is the most “feminine.” You have Jungkook who is tall, broad, and strong. Then there’s Jimin who is small and cute, and he doesn’t try so hard to be manly these days. (I felt like he tried to present himself like a strong man in early debut because he didn’t want people to view him as the smallest and weakest member of the group, but it’s pretty clear that he became more confident in who he actually is over the years. And this is not a hint toward any gender-identity because I’m a firm believer that a man doesn’t have to fit the “masculine” spectrum to identify as a man. I feel like that’s leaning toward toxic masculinity).

Anyway, focusing on the Jikook thing, I think that’s why they get pushed forward a lot. And I hate to say that about Big Hit because it’s a bold statement to make, but it makes sense. They can easily look like a couple because it’s easy for people to imagine Jungkook as the “man” and Jimin as the “woman.” Since there are many shippers who ship for fetish reasons instead of gay right reason, these kinds of ships are likely to draw people in. It’s unfortunate, but it’s also true. Because of heteronormative culture.

The big moments between Jikook, like I said, often look like fan service to me. That being said, I’m not saying all of their moments are fan service. It just looks like interactions between them are more likely to be focused on during editing because of the reasons I’ve stated above. It might be something they aren’t aware of because it’s just editing their natural interactions to be the front and center focus of productions, but I think that’s what’s happening. And it kind of makes me feel bad for them because it’s like the company is making a show of their relationship (regardless of what kind it is). Even if they are in a real romantic relationship, I can assure that’s not why they are pushed to the center, and it’s far more likely it’s for marketing purposes. So, yes. I hate it for them, even if they are in a relationship together because it could be the company saying “look at these two. Aren’t they precious?” But it feels more like “Look at these two. Don’t they look like a “real” couple between a boy and a girl because Jungkook is oh so strong and Jimin is oh so dainty?” Even if Big Hit is LGBT friendly, it doens’t mean that they can’t do/say homophobic things (even unintentionally) or that they can’t market BTS for a heteronormative culture, and a culture that fetishizes gay people or uses being gay for entertainment. (Edit: and fantasizing.) I’m not saying it’s right for them to do so, because I don’t agree with it at all. And I’d hope that’s not the reality of it (because I really want for Big Hit to be different), but it seems like it sometimes.

Now before I get into the Vmin part, I’m going to share a disclaimer. Because I hope people don’t come at me after I’ve already admitted that it’s pretty obvious that Jikook are close and love each other. I’ve mentioned a potential romantic relationship between them, so I’m not dismissing them as the “real” couple (and I’m also, ffs, not saying there is a “real” couple between the two). I adore Jikook, and I wouldn’t even be sad if they were ever confirmed. So. Keep that in mind for this next part.

VMIN

I don’t want this to turn into a post of me comparing Jikook and Vmin, and I decided to answer this ask because I was sure that I could answer it with that intention in mind. So let’s see if I can do this right.

When it comes to Vmin, I feel like there are far less moments that can be chalked up to fan service. There are clear moments that are fan service, so I’m not saying Vmin don’t participate in that at all, but it seems like they do less than Jikook. (And I know this is a comparison right here, but I hope it doesn’t get taken the wrong way but) When Jikook does fan service, it’s so seemless and natural. When it comes to Vmin, it’s sometimes a little awkward, and they’re more shy. I don’t know what that means for the two different types of relationships, but I’m not getting into that (because then it becomes comparing the two in a way I don’t want to on this blog).

I think Big Hit chooses Vmin friendship moments to focus on because they know that people love their “platonic soulmate” dynamics. But, when it comes to “shippy” moments, these aren’t pushed forward as much. Because Taehyung isn’t broad and manly like Jungkook, so it probably seems a little too gay. And that’s not okay. It doesn’t sell as well as a couple that can be imagined as heterosexual. (And I also think this is why Jikook is the bigger ship, honestly.)

That’s it, and I know I didn’t address everything in this ask. And I’m sorry for that. But I tried to focus on what (I think) was the main point. And I wanted to make it about something very real rather than about ships.

So while I did, in fact, compare the two, I’m not comparing their “realness” or anything like that. I’m comparing their marketing value because I think that’s what it boils down to when we get to see what we see. And if anyone comes at me for my comparison on a personal shipping level, you will be ignored because that’s not what this is about. And if you can’t get that from what I’ve said thus far, then you aren’t reading my words and heart correctly.

I do want to talk really quickly about them faking it, and I’m going to focus on Vmin for this because it’s a Vmin blog. I don’t think they fake it. Because some moments are so subtle that they’re clearly trying to be hidden, and some are so natural that they clearly weren’t thinking about it too much. That aside, I don’t think they would fake their close bond. When Jimin wrote a song and was told that he would sing it with Taehyung, he didn’t have to make Friends. He could have made the song about anything he wanted, and we would have taken it with just as much enthusiasm. It was his choice to make friends, and I believe he put his heart into that song. Since it was the first song he ever had part in for an album, it’d be pretty disrespectful to claim that he’s just trying to save face or not being honest in it. And I know a song could be chalked up to how well it sells, but I think that’s for the company to worry about, but as an artist myself, I know that your heart and soul goes into anything you create. And I just don’t feel right about blatantly disregarding a personal song, so yes. It’s one of my main arguments why Vmin are obviously, honestly, close and care about each other. And I will stand by that forever.

EDIT: All right. I went through this post and personally cherry picked the things I wanted you guys to focus on when reading instead of you doing it yourself. Because you’re hung up about the fact that I mentioned that Jikook has fan severice moments (even though I said the same thing about Vmin), so you’re clearly cherry picking, not reading the whole damn post, or getting hung about the fan service instead of focusing on my main fucking point. I NEVER said they weren’t close. In fact, I took the TIME to put a DISCLAIMER stating that it’s PRETTY OBVIOUS that they’re close, and that they genuinely like spending time together. I get that I said “Vmin has less fan service moments” or whatever. Let me clarify: What I meant was that it’s the EDITING and the fact that they FOCUS SO HARD on jikook that makes a lot of their moments feel like fan service. There’s no shortage of Jikook moments, and it’s NOT because Jikook are the only ones with moments, it’s because they’re the ones that make the cut most often. And I stated the reasons why I think that is. I literally even explained the thing about the editing and said, “It might be something they aren’t aware of because it’s just editing their natural interactions to be the front and center focus of productions,” but sure. Dismiss whichever statements you want. Because clearly you get to decide what I mean instead of me. Also, “So, yes. I hate it for them, even if they are in a relationship together because it could be the company saying “look at these two. Aren’t they precious?” But it feels more like “Look at these two. Don’t they look like a “real” couple between a boy and a girl”

And, in case it’s not clear from how I talked about their relationship here, I am, in fact, a Jikook shipper, too. I stated at least TWICE in here that I wasn’t trying to dismiss the realness of them. And I talked about how shitty it is for the company to use their relationship (if real) for marketing. And unless they’re ever confirmed, that’s what they’re doing. It’s marketing. Because if the company wanted people to care about their real relationship, they would let them come out. And that is NOT me dismissing the fact that they could be in a real relationship. If you can’t tell from what I’ve just written right here, I’ll clarify by repeating what I’ve already said in the post. Because if the are in a real relationship, I can guarantee you that is not why they get pushed so hard or shown the most. It’s because their masculine/feminine vibes are marketable. There are Jikookers, LIKE ME, who ship them because they like Jikook. But you can’t deny that there are a lot of Jikookers who ship them because they’re a straight girl in love with Jungkook and imagine herself in Jimin’s place because it’s easy to see. If you are one of the real Jikookers that ship them for their actual relationship and would LOVE it if they were ever confirmed, then fine. That’s not about you. But you have to admit that there are a LOT of shippers out there (not just Jikook) that ship them with guys because they don’t want them to end up with another girl that’s not the fan doing the shipping. Yet they still would be upset if they were ever confirmed because then it means they’re actually gay.

I love Jikook, and this post wasn’t intended to dismiss their relationship or bring it down. And I’d say I’m sorry if that’s the impression you got from it, but if you’d actually read and not choose which parts to focus on, you wouldn’t have gotten that impression. I just hate it that you guys got that impression because I do genuinely like Jikook. As much as Vmin, honestly. I was focusing on how the company treats the two ships, but sure. Dismiss every time I’ve drawn the post back to that point.

[nightswithkookmin]

Maybe people are just triggered by the phrase 'alternative facts' or 'facts'. Its easy to get stuck on a phrase and its negative associations within the wider world. Why they would go so far as to send hatred your way is beyond me (I hope you are ok).

Ahhh I see...

Whatever Jimin said. Lol

That would have to be ignorance and hypocrisy then wouldn't it? They are shippers too, right? Or are these noneshippers?

A fact is something that is actual and proven to be universally true as opposed to a theory or belief.

An Alt Fact: Is a belief you treat as fact.

All and any statement that says JungKook and Jimin of BTS or any other ship in BTS is real, are gay, in a gay relationship, are boyfriends, having sex in their real life is an Alt Fact. Can't answer for shit when they are sued now can they? Lmho.

Statements like these are just delusions, beliefs and opinions that we shippers tend to treat as facts within the shipping industry. Lol.

I legit thought all these 'she treats her opinions as facts' rumblings were coming from nonshippers with genuine concerns but if it's coming from shippers- I can't take them seriously. Lmho.

If such a distinction isn't made then we not only would be opening ourselves up to possible litigations for libel and defamation but to many moral criticisms such as and not limited to assuming the sexuality and gender of these boys- a problem that comes naturally with shipping and is especially profound in shipping same sex OTPs.

I see a lot of these 'shippers' put up 'disclaimers' such as that they 'ship' Jikook but do not 'assume anything' about them to try to disassociate from and mitigate the criticisms that comes with shipping same sex idols in a romantic context- but that's a misnomer or perhaps, at best, oxymoronic. Lmho.

Chilee, how are you gonna claim you 'ship' two men and believe them to be dating eachother but then claim you are not assuming anything about their gender and sexuality? For them to be dating, they'd have to be queer, no?

If you don't want to assume anything then don't ship them at all or ship them but as 'friends' -bros, bros thangs. Lol.

In which case, you have no business meddling in the business of those who ship them romantically. Damn. But it's as simple as that.

Shipping opposite sex couples is not the answer either. It is equally problematic as shipping same sex couples- either way you are assuming the sexuality of these Idols. If it's not normal to assume they are gay, it's not normal to assume they are straight either.

Shipping in general is very problematic regardless of whether you are a trad or altshipper.

What's worse, we spit out lengthy dissertations and engage in arguments to try to disprove that other Male to Male ship within the same group isn't 'real.' Do you see the problem here?

If Taekook or any other ship in BTS, besides Jikook, turns out to be 'real' we would have spent years tormenting and invalidating two gay men, defining their relationship for them through our own lens and dismissing their right to be whatever they want to be with their sexuality. If Jikook turn out to be straight, we would have done the same thing to them. Chilee.

And if you are an Alt shipper such as myself, you get that extra checkmark for wanting to 'out' or attempting to 'out' your OTP if they are in fact a real gay couple- we all suck my guy. Lol.

Seriously though, these are the issues we ought to be concerned with and have conversations on- as different types of shippers, if we want to be woke or fix the shipping community. Not go to war over disclaimers and tags and shit. What goes on! Chilee.

And while we are at it, we ought to talk about one of the main differences between tradshipping and altshipping: Fetishization, Objectification and appropriation of gay life.

As a disclaimer, this is not to defend my opinions or theories- Let the records show. My opinions and theories are just that. But I have read theories and opinions from other altshippers that are very different from mine but they all seem to have one thing in common- How do I articulate this...

Follow me-

Tradshippers are more willing to accept and uWu at Jeonlous and Jimlous- which are alternative facts and theories by the way, but would flinch at theories that suggest or imply Jikook may very well be dealing with microaggressions and other subtle variations of homophobia within the company- catch my drift, I'm trying not to get sued. Lmho.

Do you see what I mean?

Tradshippers who believe Jikook is real tether the line of Altshipping. Supporting Jikook is to see and most importantly treat them as real 'gay' men- which means you ought to understand and see that they can experience serious issues and pains that any and all LGBTQ plus couples experience within a conservative community such as S.K.

To not see this or assume, when others point it out, that they are being 'dramatic' 'spinning wild accusations' 'writing fiction' and all these other slurs people throw around in these streets is to expose the homophobia inherent in tradshipping.

Heteronormativity in tradshipping is homophobic, dismissing possible real life pains and experiences of the OTP you claim is gay is equally homophobic or at best objectifying, fetishizing and treating these queer people as fantasies and not people.

Picking and choosing the kumbaya aspect of their relationship and despising any statement that contradicts your fantasy of them is objectification, fetishization and frankly homophobic- especially if those issues being pointed out go to the root of issues that gay people face on a daily basis.

It's no different from Tuktukkers who define the relationship of their OTP for them and dismiss the pain of one of their OTP when that person have, over the years, expressed discomfort with being shipped with the other OTP in a romantic sense- get out of your imagination, or even expressed his loneliness and longing for a partner- Blue & Grey and the plethora of ways he's expressed that he is single and not in a romantic relationship with JK.

Conversely, they invalidate the relationship of the pair that expresses a desire to be shipped and actually wants to be shipped with eachother and have gone over and beyond to create the impression they are a couple- even if coincidentally. It's the same way they dismiss the desires and experiences of JK- who have time and time again proven that Jimin means more to him than just a brother or friend and yet they keep forcing the bro tag on them. Chileee. In my opinion. Sigh.

It's one thing to disagree with people's opinions, it's another to use dismissive tone and language especially when the other opinion is about issues that real people within the 'community' faces. That can be very insensitive. Know what I mean?

And the fact, people don't understand the difference between opinions curated to pander to followers who just want the good stuff and want to fetishize their OTP without reservations by coming up with bogus theories such as that one of their OTP is a slut and a grinch terrorizing their fantasies; and theories such as that 'a company which has sued a 12yr old child for spreading misinformation but did not sue a shop that owed it's talent a duty to protect his privacy and instead asked the shop to lay low- after issuing a public statement that they were going to sue on behalf of their talent,' that that is a double entendre.

Its occured to me tradshippers worry about their hair and how they look within the shipping community but chileee me my altshippers worry about not getting our ass sued by BigHit for all the things we think is going on within the company. Lol.

The term alternative fact, delusional, delulu, fiction, allegedly and all these other epithets and fine sobriquet that Tradshippers abhor are honestly an altshipper's friend. Chileee.

Jikook is real. That is an alternative fact untill Jikook come out as gay, on their own- if they in fact are. I can't prove it. I simply believe it. I disassociate from anyone who doesn't think that is an alternative fact.

That's not to dismiss the concerns that these people express beneath all the noise- I share some of them as well, especially if I believe it's gonna get me sued. lol.

I worry for people who have been exposed to the normalization of fetishization, objectification and latent homophobia prevalent within tradshipping.

But at the time too, I worry about 'immature" 'impressionable tradshippers' who are new to altshipping or come across my posts in medias res.

I'm still dialoguing with the 'other side' to see how best to resolve this. I'm open to suggestions.

Now can we move on from this topic? I vote more shipping, less hubbub hubbub. Lol.

Oh and as a disclaimer, I'm no expert on anything other than my opinions. I do not speak for the LGBTQ plus community. Everyone has their own unique experiences.

As always, this is just my opinion.

And thank you, Anon for sharing this with me. It's helped a lot. Thanks to everyone that's shed more light on the situation. Think Yall relate better to them than I do. Lol.

Please keep supporting Jikook and think of what it means for them if they really are real. Namaste

Signed,

GOLDY

[bootlegsymphony]

Being Hopeful [a *personal* Komahina writeup]

*major Danganronpa 2/2.5/3 spoilers ahead*

Someone told me to gather my thoughts into a post so here it is.

Note: Unless you’re up for a challenge to potentially reshape your opinions towards certain ships, if you think Komahina is by default a toxic ship in anyway shape or form, or if you firmly believe that Hinanami is “bestest Hinata ship OTP owo”, it’s not in your best interest to read this post. I’m not suggesting you are invalid or wrong, but you’re likely not the group of people I’m looking forward to having a constructive and evoking conversation with.

First off, I might have been recognized as an avid Komahina shipper, and my opinions towards Hinanami could be generally summarized as ambivalent/mixed/minorly favourable. I was able to acknowledge Hina/Nami’s relationship as of roughly equivalent significance in regard to DR2’s theme.

But it was impossible for me to consider the two relationships narratively equal, I was able to notice that Koma/Hina was a “meant to be” endgame relationship right of the bat, yet Hina/Nami reads as this transitory experience of an obscure puppy love, or “yeah that happened” that’s melancholic and beautiful. Evidently, the narrative strongly favoured Koma/Hina in terms of screentime, development, complexity, compatibility, and endgame potentials.

I wasn’t too confident about why Komahina screams an ultimate destination of a Hinata relationship to me, yet Hina/Nami never convey a remotely similar message. In many aspects, I didn’t ship Komahina in the past for the sake of “I want Komaeda to savour happiness” but placed more emphasis on “it would be wise for Hinata if he could ascertain that his future is with Komaeda”. However I couldn’t elucidate why I thought so.

But due to some unexpected changes in my personal life, it was so effortless for me to reach an epiphany why Hinanami couldn’t quite be the same Hinata-OTP as Komahina. And now I’m kicking myself for not being able to be more adamant about it earlier.

In short, I had a brief taste of how “true bond” or “true connection” functions. It was an estranged, uncharted experience to me prior to that “sudden change”. And in retrospect it’s unimaginable how I survived that bitter life of pure bleakness without it. But since I was able to discern the characteristics of a “true bond”, Koma/Hina, while being excruciatingly complicated and bitter in canon timeline, had a great foundation for that nonetheless, while Hina/Nami was, fundamentally “deficient” in this specific department.

Hina/Nami, either the DR2 or DR3 iteration, doesn’t go beyond being a fine relationship. It’s not bad, as adolescent crushes are typically not bad. It’s functional and somewhat sweet if Hinata was just some normal shy boy who at some point met a nice caring pretty girl. But a great, monumental relationship doesn’t come from being just fine, and Hinata is much more messy than a such-and-such average joe as what a part of the fandom preferred to project him as.

But Hinata wasn’t an adequate rival and foil for Komaeda, that ridiculously multilayered character likely in all fictions for nothing.

For starter, Hinata committed Izuru Kamakura and countless war crimes, for fuck’s sake.

I had this pessimistic outlook that humans aren’t truly designated at birth to understand each other unless they are. Real life Nanami being the talented, worthy Ultimate Gamer she was, even if she could acknowledge and validate Hinata’s struggles as a talentless person, and brought him some temporary comfort and solace, she could not understand the full spectrum of complications the struggle itself entails. Being the kind and somewhat compassionate person she was, she’d try to understand Hinata if he ever decided to open up, but she’d likely just go “yeah talent doesn’t really matter you should just be confident in yourself” as long as she’s not some Ultimate Empath like Makoto (or Junko) all at the same time. To her, Hinata’s decision to Izuru-fy is unfavorable, but not particularly tangible.

It’s somewhat similar to a moderately affluent person not knowing what an impoverished/economically-challenged life entails, they could never understand why it’s necessary for anyone to opt for crimes and prostitution and shit, if you could just “yeah money doesn’t matter you should be happy” your way out of it. Why is it necessary to choose a life path of crimes and prostitution? Why is it necessary to Izuru-fy oneself? It’s the perpetual predicament of mutual understanding in humankind. No matter how sweet and wholesome on the surface that ship appeared, Nanami would hardly ever reach Hinata’s soul beyond skin-deep, if the talent/worth debate, the rigorous societal expectations, the everlasting emotional quagmire of being under-loved and under-appreciated...everything which gradually carved out Hinata’s pivotal character (that we know of) from his embryo, was a non-issue to Nanami at core.

If there was a portion of Hinata yearning for true connection in an intimate relationship (which I doubt he didn’t), his relationship with Nanami would eventually turn insufficient or dissatisfactory, despite feeling nice on the exterior.

Normally, people don’t realize they’re empty until they’re fulfilled.

But who else struggled immensely with the entanglement between talent and worth throughout their life? Who else once resolved to obliterate their own precious being in pursuit of an almost delusional ideal of hope as Hinata did, so that they could potentially speak to Hinata on the deepest, hidden stratum of his soul?

Komaeda.

It always pains me to read Komaeda’s first FTE where he suggested Hinata’s ultimate talent could be “Ultimate Serenity” because Hinata granted him some inner peace “just by being there”. Knowing Komaeda’s mind it’s a nearly impossible feat to make him feel peaceful. Komaeda likely didn’t even consider that a legitimate talent, he inwardly viewed Hinata “being there” as inherently valuable but he couldn’t even tell. Yet Hinata failed to just, be there, be existent.

And, I always considered Komaeda sustaining himself being alive to be a monument on its own, yet 2-5 happened, for Hope, I believed.

I once had a mentally stimulating talk about how emotional and intellectual transparency lead to a solid foundation of “true love” among people with someone before. They even expressed, months ago, that if Hinata could just speak up about his problems with Nanami he wouldn’t have necessarily Izuru-fied himself.

Yet even being the aloof and reserved fucker he was, Hinata wouldn’t camouflage himself in front of Komaeda. Komaeda saw through him even if he was having a hard time deciding on how he should have felt himself. He voiced, various times throughout DR2, that “we have similar scents” “I thought you would understand me” “we’re both miserable bystanders” “I couldn’t see you as completely separate from me”. On the surface it seemed like Komaeda was being cryptic and dragging Hinata to his level, but given how we knew Hinata took even more drastic measures as escapism, were they even that different?

It was why exactly Komahina dynamic was so embittered and resentful in the canon timeline. It was not hatred, but involuntary intimacy. Hinata was emotionally stripped naked (sorry, not to evoke any erotic visualizations, just a convenient metaphor) when it’s not even Komaeda’s intention, and Komaeda’s always emotionally naked. It didn’t turn out well not because it was a fundamentally dysfunctional dynamic, but they simply met each other in the worst, most despairful and unluckiest timeline possible. With continuous manslaughters ongoing, it’s only palpable that baring your soul to someone as dangerous as Komaeda would be intimidating, but it still had that mesmerizingly entrancing aura, especially in Komaeda’s last FTE.

They had no choice of not knowing each other well.

Unless either of them died, which they both did. But an ultimate future was born and they were granted a second chance to finally reach the destination they deserved.

In a post-HPA scenario, Komahina was not only somewhat contextually implied as Hinata’s endgame, but it was deliberately set up as a generally hopeful relationship as well. Kodaka once suggested in an interview that post-HPA Hajizuru inherited Hinata’s emotions, so that he was able to sort out his considerably complex feelings for Komaeda as it left off; meanwhile with Izuru’s analytical skills and insights into human psychology, it would likely become not as cumbersome. With Hinata’s determination and persistence it would hopefully not only cure Komaeda’s terminal illnesses, but also “heal” Komaeda from his hope fetish and other cruddy coping mechanisms, with all the support and dedication Hinata could provide. Hinata, being emotionally identical to his past self, would likely occasionally experience insecurity and low self-esteem as well, and it could require Komaeda’s weird little method of presenting challenges/creating minor inconveniences for Hinata in order to help him build up self-agency and develop infallible self-assurance.

It’s kind of the Ultimate Love that survived all the trials and tribulations, and to think of that the Ultimate Tragedy gave birth to the Ultimate Love, huh, seems about right for our two Ultimate Lucks.

[captain-sodapop]

actually genuinely curious whether destiel antis are this way bc they’re homophobic or can’t get over the toxicity of the ship bc i def understand their latter but no one even,,, addresses it in their hate??

Hi!

I mean, let’s be real: for some of them, it’s definitely homophobia.  Not a valid reason for not liking destiel, and certainly not why I don’t ship it.  However, I do not know of anyone in my immediate circle who dislikes it for that reason.  In fact, I would be shocked if that were the case, considering so many of my friends on here ship sastiel, deanxbenny, jodyxdonna, dreamhunter, etc.  For me - and I think the majority of others (at least, I hope) it has nothing to do with it being an mlm ship.  There are other reasons why I don’t ship them (under the cut because it got pretty long):

1) I just...don’t like it?  Like, it’s that simple.  I’m not into seeing Dean and Cas together romantically.  From what I can tell, most of the general audience falls in this category, too.  I obviously don’t think it’s inherently wrong to ship it, and I try not to generalize.  i follow and have followers who ship destiel, and they’re lovely people!  I’m personally just not into it.  I literally cannot picture a romantic or sexual relationship between these two characters. 

2) There are certainly toxic elements to it, like you mentioned, and I think a lot of people notice this.  Nobody on this show is perfect, but it’s hard for me to look at Dean and Cas - who argue and belittle each other more than Cas or Sam, or Cas and Jack - and be like “oh yeah that’s true love.”  And often it’s Dean and his temper getting in the way of this.  Not to mention that Dean only recently forgave Cas for what happened to his mother, and that “apology” in 15x09 wasn’t really an apology for his previous behavior.  Yes, it was good to see Dean admit to having a horrible temper and let Cas know that he cares about him and forgives him, but it wasn’t truly an apology.  I just think that for as much as I enjoy their friendship, their relationship with each other doesn’t suit romance.  Look at Sam and Cas - I don’t ship sastiel, either, really, but I can see that their relationship is much more relaxed and understanding.  Plus there’s the fact that Dean (and Sam, of course, but he clearly wasn’t 100% on board and regretted it almost instantly) manipulated Jack and was willing to kill him, and Cas...Jack was Cas’s kid first, beloved and wanted, and even if Dean and Cas can be friends again, how do you even move on from that, really?  There are more examples of the more toxic element, but I’m already sorta getting long-winded here.

3) I ship Cas with other people, and so do others, so they just prefer him with someone else.  Totally cool, too.

4) I firmly and enthusiastically agree that people should have whatever headcanons they want and ship just about whatever they want (I also am firmly and enthusiastically against any pedophillic or incestuous ships, just so you know).  You think Dean is bi?  Awesome!  Sam is trans?  Love it!  Angels are on the autism spectrum?  I can totally see it!  Headcanons and shipping can make interacting with a text more personal and fun.  And text can definitely be open to interpretation, so it’s not even necessarily wrong to interpret Dean as bisexual.  But the way I read canon, Dean is straight.  I have never seen him express sexual or romantic interest in another man.  I’ve seen him acknowledge that another man is attractive, sure, but that’s normal.  I can admit that another woman is attractive, but still not want to be with her.  So for me, unless it’s explicitly stated in canon in these last seven episodes, I think it’s canon that Dean is straight and wouldn’t be interested in Cas anyway.  We can agree to disagree - I certainly welcome it! - but I’m someone who adheres pretty strictly to canon, usually.  And that’s how I see the canon.

5) One of the things I think supernatural has done better than a lot of other shows is show that families and friendships come in many forms.  To me, Team Free Will is a unit, and it would feel weird to me if any of them became romantically involved with each other, as if the dynamic had been thrown off-balance.  Same reason I don’t ship any of the boys in The Outsiders together - they’re a band of brothers, not necessarily related by blood, but a found family.  So when Dean says to Cas that he and Sam view Cas as a brother, then a romantic relationship between any of them would just feel...off to me.  

6) Finally, looking at the story and the character arcs and considering the character games, I do not see Dean ending up in a romantic relationship, or even wanting it.  Casual sex?  Yep.  A home?  Yep yep.  A family?  Yes, yes, yes a thousand times.  But a family, like I said above, can look like many things.  I also can’t see Cas ending up in a romantic relationship or wanting one (even though I ship megstiel.)  It’s just not where their stories seem to be headed.  Sam?  Sure.  I think the show is setting up him and Eileen to share some sort of romantic relationship in some capacity (which - woohoo!  At least on my end.)  But even then, that’s up in the air.  Romance is honestly the least of the characters’ - and especially the story’s - worries.  They have many much more pressing matters to attend to that need to be resolved first before any real talk of romance.

7) I feel like I should mention this even though it doesn’t have to do with the ship or the characters directly, but on the whole?  The destiel community is incredibly toxic.  Harassing cast and crew, harassing fans who disagree with them, superiority complexes, fetishization, unwillingness to listen to outside perspectives, believing their read of canon is the be-all end-all, and a dynamic that to me is eerily similar to the old Harry Potter fandom’s Inner Circle (of Cassandra Clare and msscribe fame).  This obviously doesn’t apply to every individual who ships destiel, but in general I don’t find the whole group pleasant to interact with or very welcoming.  It kinda turns you off the ship to know that’s the community you’re dealing with, and if/when destiel doesn’t go canon?  The toxicity will increase tenfold.  Hell, it’ll increase even if it does because their egos will go through the roof.  

I hope that clears some things up for you.  Once again, the fact that it’s an mlm ship IS NOT THE PROBLEM.  If anyone says that’s why they don’t ship it, fuck ‘em.  And there are many individual destiel shippers who are wonderful and I love interacting with, and are very understanding and accepting and non-toxic.  But these are the reasons I don’t ship it, so I’m sorry if I haven’t made that clear in the past.  I think a lot of people share the same reasoning, too, so I’m sorry if they haven’t made that clear either.  I know I sometimes get caught up in the wank and making jokes, and so do others, and our reasons for not shipping it can get lost in that.  I’m not trying to make any personal attacks.

But thank you for asking this, and I hope this cleared some things up for you!

[angelicgarnet]

which things do you disagree with "antis" about? this is not meant to start a fight btw I'm just curious

yeah thats fine! (TW for discussions of pedophilia) 

basically, going out of your way to harass pro-shippers/’’’MAPs’’’ doesnt harm the people you want it to. the thing about pedophiles (and people with other dangerous fetishes) is that they usually Know that what they do is wrong, and in fact find it arousing Because of that. so when you tell pedophiles that theyre disgusting people and they should die, the people who hear it are either A.) pedophiles who know this, and in fact enjoy being reminded of that and B.) people with POCD who will THINK it’s directed at them (even if you clarify that it’s about Actual Pedophiles, because people with pocd will often convince themselves they are, when they aren’t) and are already dealing with enough guilt that they don’t deserve 

i also think there is a HUGE difference between a minor shipping harmful things and an adult doing it. when a minor is into adult/minor ships, theyre at best a kid who doesn’t know better and will eventually grow out of it, and at worst someone who is being groomed into thinking this is normal. i’ve seen way too many teenagers get called out for ‘’’sexualizing minors’’’’ because they sexualized a character who is literally OLDER than them and it is just. ridiculous 

also so many antis just.... put way too much energy into this. like i get it, its frustrating how normalized pedophilia is on the internet, i really do. but dedicating your spare time to talking about this and choosing to interact with pedophiles on the internet to Own Them isn’t good for your mental health, and is often outright dangerous, esp if you’re a minor 

[reallyverynormal]

hey im a proshipper, but i have a friend who isnt either proship or anti. she wants to know more about the anti side of things, if you dont mind could you tell me why you are anti ship? and why you believe others should be? i wanna let her make this decision on her own, but idk how anti shippers think and i cant find informational posts on it

this ended up getting kind of long so i’m just going to put it under a readmore but basically anti shippers are people who say this: don’t fetishize minorities, abuse and abuse survivors and also don’t write paedophilic porn and act like that’s a normal thing for cishet women to get off to.

-don’t fetishize abuse and act like it’s hot or cute. by that i mean don’t take a character that is canonically abusive to another character and write some romanticized tortured love story about it, or act like victims have to or can forgive their abusers for abusing them (not saying they can’t, but perpetuating the idea that they can/have to is bad, actually). just fucking don’t -don’t fetishize paedophilia and act like it’s hot or cute. by that i mean don’t write porn of children, don’t write porn of ‘aged up’ children, don’t write porn of adults raping/being in sexual contact with children and act like it’s hot or cute or something normal to get off to -don’t dehumanize gay men, lesbians, trans people--basically the entire LGBT community--by fetishizing them, calling porn of us “sin”, only writing smut fics about us and nothing else, trying to constantly find ways to ship two men in every piece of media, hate literally any female character that could potentially be a love interest just because she gets in the way of your ship. don’t fucking fetishize us, actually! -don’t act like rape/sexual abuse/sexual assault is hot. period. -also don’t write porn about real life fuckin people without their permission, especially, in the cases of people like dan and phil, when they are very clearly deeply uncomfortable with it and the abuse/harassment they have received from this, (tomska and tord from the eddsworld team and 1direction as a whole are also good examples of this shit affecting real life people).

and by these things, i don’t mean that you can’t write about these subjects ever or portray characters involving some of these subjects ever, i’m saying don’t fetishize them. don’t act like fiction doesn’t affect reality, because it does, (look up the jaws affect, as a huge example), and don’t act like you are above the law, because even the law (in the US and canada, at least), can and will punish you for drawing and writing porn about children. 

fetishizing minorities is, you guessed it, dehumanizing and wrong! black people, asian people and the LGBT community especially get this kind of treatment, and if you go around agreeing with the black and asian people who are talking about the fetishization of their races by white people, and you don’t agree with actual LGBT people talking about the fetishization of their gender/sexuality, you’re a fucking hypocrite*. fetishizing any fucking minority is bad, even in fiction.

note that there is also a difference between LGBT people going out of their way to ship two characters together in a queer/gay/etc ship and a cishet girl going out of their way to constantly ship two men together in every piece of media no matter what, especially if those two characters are white/light-skinned, skinny, conventionally attractive cis men. in the case of LGBT people, we’re doing it to create the representation we don’t get in media. for a cishet girl to go out of their way to ship two men in every fandom they join is just fetishization and it’s dehumanizing because we are not your fetish, we are not here to entertain you, we have lives to live outside of entertaining you and getting you off and often times we have spent years trying to get out of circles where people only see us as sex objects. fuck off. 

fetishizing people’s abuse and turning something horrific into something you can get off to is also extremely shitty and spits in the faces of actual abuse survivors because you’re acting like it’s cute, hot, something to get off to when we’ve often spent years trying to forget what’s happened to us. when we’re still going through this every fuckin day. when people have killed themselves because of the abuse that we’ve gone through. when you do this, you act like what we went through is just something for you to get off to when it is often so bad we are left permanently scarred, our consciousnesses permanently broken, struggling with life-long mental health issues directly caused by the abuse we went through. that is not your fucking fetish.

again--i’m not saying you can’t write about these subjects, i’m saying don’t fetishize them, i.e. don’t act like any of these things can be a good thing, don’t write them like they’re something to get off to, don’t write them like they’re something to strive for or can be in any way, shape or form healthy. write them as they are: horrific, scarring, mentally and physically draining, terrifying, and nightmare-inducing. do not portray these things in a positive light is all we are fucking asking.

inb4 “so we’re not allowed to write characters who think their abuse is good???” or some bullshit like that, no, that’s not what i’m saying. you can write a character who has an extremely complicated relationship with their abuse, for example being sexually abused from childhood and “liking” it because that’s how they were trained to respond to sexual situations, that’s how they were introduced to sex and their body responds to sexually violent situations by being aroused, even if the person doesn’t want to be because biology =/= consent, and that’s how sexual trauma works, albeit not for everyone, but for some people like me. you can write about a character that struggles with “liking” their trauma because sexual violence and being a victim of it is what feels safe, “normal” and familiar to them, while healthy sex is foreign and terrifying because they don’t know how to behave in a healthy sexual environment. that is a normal thing to write about and should, in fact, be written about more because i don’t see anything like that being written by anyone anywhere, and is, in my opinion, FAR more interesting than forcefully writing a character to be in love with their abuser and entirely romanticizing their abusive relationship, (that isn’t to say that you can’t write a character that’s in love with their abuser and wants to forgive them/make it work/ignores the abuse/doesn’t know it’s abuse/etc, just stop acting like their relationship is in any way healthy or something to strive for or cute/hot/etc, just don’t fucking romanticize the abuse they’re going through, portray it as a bad thing because that’s what it is--a bad thing).

that’s the anti-shipper argument: don’t fetishize people, don’t fetishize (sexual) abuse, don’t fetishize (sexual) abuse survivors, and don’t fetishize paedophilia.

it’s pretty simple once you break it down, but i hope my relatively detailed explanation shows you why you’re an asshole, and i desperately hope your friend doesn’t turn out to be like you in this regard :)

*i’m a white person, so if any POC finds this statement racist or offensive or knows of a better way to word it, feel free to let me know and i’ll delete it/change it/etc

[sophiemi]

A Response to Hate + Wisdom, I Suggest Everyone Reads.

This is a pretty long post replying to some hate I got from a recent post I made about Mirajane Strauss and Laxus Dreyar, I linked it at the bottom of this if you would like to read it. I think everyone should read this post not only because its some piping hot tea, but there’s also a lot of other things I talk about in this that I feel like everyone should hear. Totally understand if you don’t want to read it though. Let me know what you think!  

First here is what they/you said (in order):

Hi I just liked to start with I blocked you from send me anymore ask, but I’m letting you know if you change devices you can still ask me things or messages, if you DM (off anon) ill take your request seriously, but since you’re on anon I’m not gonna take you seriously, sorry. Especially after you were actually mean to me when I did nothing wrong, which is why I’m making this post even though I’d normally ignore it.

Lets start with the general Miraxus stuff, that post WAS NOT hate. You have to be delusional and overly obsessed to believe that was a hate post, or that I was spreading “false information.” In the post I literally said they had good development and linked a master list of ALL their interactions. The entire post was about how even though I don’t ACTIVELY ship them (meaning they are cute and I agree they would be a good couple, but I just don’t get that feeling where I’m like “oh okay yes them” and I feel the need to stalk them, ((not everyone hates what threatens their ships)), and I’m not denying they are very cute, and have a lot of cute art and moments, it just doesn’t hype me up the same way other ships do.) So, this post was pro-miraxus, I’m literally saying they honestly deserved to become canon/canon-ish like a lot of the other ships did, so it was not “cross tagged” the post was about mira and laxus and thats what I tagged it, if you are talking about the part where i tagged “#I feel sorry for anyone who ships miraxus” that is literally me validating anyone hurt over the ending.  Again, I’m not following the Miraxus tag or any account solely dedicated to that ship so I didn’t even know he drew a kid or them, that’s super cool, good for you. I wasn’t being “biased” because I’m not neck deep in any ship for Laxus or Mira, yes i think CanaJane is cute but I know its very unrealistic, this is why I was able to form this opinion that they deserved better. The post was about how Mashima baited Miraxus the entire series, then said “Never!!!!” even if it was Lucy’s inner thoughts, Mashima knew what he was doing. I was saying, “wow that probably sucked if you really liked them! I’m sorry!” If you believe my post was to degrade Mira x Laxus and hype Cana x Mira, then you need to take a step back and re-evaluate yourself, I understand you are probably like 13-14 but that’s still not okay to attack people because they don’t agree with you, and if you are older that 13 or 14 that’s just embarrassing. I also believe that Freed x Laxus deserved a better ending and I also don’t actively ship that either, Freed spent the whole series wanting to protect and be by the side of Laxus and they had no interaction in the finale.

 Next, lets go to the part about you saying I’m a “slash fetishizer shipper” (also i literally had to look up what this meant) I can only assume you canajane because i said they “hit different” right? Let me just re insert what you said to make sure I reply correctly

Yes I think Cana and Mira are very attractive, and I think they are hot together too. Hi i’m into girls. I am the woke points. I agree people make lgbt people into a fetish and don’t actually respect them, but that’s mostly males thinking lesbians are hot while being gross out by gay men, I may be naive but you don’t often see that on anime tumblr where half the people are gay anyway, not to mention most are female. This next part may be controversial I’m not sure, but people don’t need a reason to ship characters and no one can tell them who they can and can’t ship (this does not apply to shipping a child with an adult), so you can’t say only gay people can ship to people of the same gender, sorry that’s not how it works, i understand you’re trying to get those “woke points” but you just look like a fool. But then next you said this:

Actual author content? Oh you mean like the post I linked that showed EVERY SINGLE interaction/moment/hints that Miraxus had? Like I said, they had good development, and my post was about how the AUTHOR should’ve given them a better ending. I’d just like to add there are many moments that the AUTHOR wrote between Cana and Mira that made me ship them, if the AUTHOR never wrote anything to where they interacted, I wouldn’t ship them?  This post is not about that though so I’m not gonna go anymore into them. 

“false information” girl what? where? I’m genuinely curious, I used screenshots of the manga to present to idea that Miraxus deserved better and that’s all I talked about so I’m confused what you been by this:

So I can tell you took the one line where i said I like CanaJane more than Miraxus and in your mind twisted my entire PRO-miraxus argument into and anti post, this kind of behavior is toxic, and “its not a good look sir” 

Let also clarify something, cross tagging is posting about something and tagging things completely unrelated, this post was about mira and laxus and thats what it was tagged about. Cross tagging is often used in shipping wars, but my post was pro-miraxus so it makes no sense for you to repeatedly say I was cross tagging and that’s why you were mad, it’s very clear you were just mad because I said I shipped CanaJane and that clouded your judgement when reading everything else. If you wanna see real cross tagging look up any naruto ship and scroll for about 3 seconds. So, no I won’t be removing the tags because that makes no sense, but if it’s important enough for you to message me off anon then we’ll talk.

My final section of this response is how hypocritical you were. Like with he part, “I don’t hate you” To quote tiktok and nicki minaj, “don’t be tryna double back, I already despise you” 

As you can see you repeatedly said I was mean, but no where in my post did I say anything like “Mira x Laxus is gross, its toxic, its dumb, its...idk...forced!”, i literally never said anything like that because like I’ve said in this post and in that one, they’re cute and they had good development. You were the mean one in your response telling me i had “no reading skills whatsoever”, that i had a “lack of respect”,  said I’m “more than pitiful” and this isn’t mentioning all of your back handed pettiness throughout every single message you sent, you think you “look cool” but “hun”...”sweetie”...you just look dumb, but at least you are on anon!

Educate myself? girl this isn’t politics, you’re pressed over a post saying your ship deserved better than it got??? What am I supposed to do watch the anime, read the manga, well good thing I did. GUESS WHAT THEY HAD GOOD DEVELOPMENT i can see why you ship them. 

The only rude person here is you, you came into my asks and attacked me because you were blinded for reasons I can’t figure out, and you hid behind the anonymous setting which clearly means you don’t care that much about Miraxus, you just wanted to be mean. 

If you’re reading this, and you sent me the messages, message me off anonymous, then we can realistically talk about me taking off my so called cross tagging, I really don’t care that much, I’m just baffled you had to audacity to come for me so hard then “nicely” ask me to remove the tags. 

If you’re reading this and you didn’t send me these messages, thanks for reading, maybe share this so people understand that this behavior is not okay. I know what I got was mostly just petty ranting, but there are people who send way worse to others and its just not okay. Just because these aren’t are real accounts like these are fandom accounts doesn’t make it okay. Thanks! 

Here is the post in reference:

https://emillyjacksonn.tumblr.com/post/617804123843280896/miraxus-shippers-really-got-played

[daouoffroads]

What are some of your unpopular opinions/pet peeves with BL? Like in regards to tropes/fandom/actors? I feel like you'd have some good ones 😉

omg anon... i probably have so many we could be here for YEARS.

-- i hate the villainizing of girlfriends/women characters-- fans that complain about subtitles. either the lack of them or if they aren’t correct/timed right. sure, it’s a nuisance at the very least, but there is someone behind a screen who isn’t fluent trying their best-- the almost fetishization level of the use of abuse/assault-- normalizing domestic violence between male characters-- using effeminate gay men as jokes-- “i don’t like men, i just you.”-- bi erasure-- companies/managers forcing actors to promote themselves as boyfriends-- delusional fans who have no respect for the personal lives of actors-- when dramas have the shipper/fangirl/fujoshi characters-- **cest/step-sibling tropei could probably go on but ya girl is sleepy lol

[cookieatmochi]

Why the thought of Jikook together is ridiculous? (a rant by me)

Gosh, there are so many things I find incredible about this whole ship thing. I’ve so much to say sometimes I even confuse myself and wonder what I’m even doing with my life.

This specific topic had been on my mind for quite some time and, as I get more and more into jikookland and in the deep black hole that is shipping, I find myself questioning a lot of what is said, what is speculated, what is believed and what is looked down with a frown and disbelief.

I consider myself a Jikook shipper, (though I’ve come to find a lot o people in the fandom don’t like to call themselves that way, but I really don’t see why we need to find new ways of creating rifts between us). So, needless is to say I, at least, find the thought of Jimin and Kookie together incredibly adorable and attractive. But that isn’t the reason I ship them.

The thought of any BTS ship is incredibly adorable and attractive. When I first got into them and later into this shipping thing, I went there with an open mind but very mindful and conscious that it was only for fun and, for the most part out of boredom. I was careful not to take any of it seriously, of believing any of them were real, that any of the boys were in fact attracted in a romantic way to each other or were in love with each other.

I can’t exactly know why, when or how, but, even before I became a BTS stan or knew anything about BTS or Kpop in general, I’ve had this idea that the way the members interacted with each other would different from the western way, the way I was accustomed to.

As I said, I don’t know why I had that perception or how it came to be. But anyways, with that thought in mind, the first ship video I’d seen was actually from Jikook. Curious, cause from what I tend to read and hear most of the shippers claim Vkook was the first ship they’d come in contact with. But with me it was the opposite.

It was randomly that I came across a video of jikook, and I remember it had been one of them flirting for 5/10 (I can’t remember exactly) minutes straight. I gotta be honest and say I wasn’t very impressed. Not because the moments weren’t cute and sometimes brow lifting, but because, as I mentioned: 1) it wasn’t my intention to take this ship thing seriously, and 2) I was aware or had an inkling the way they interacted with each other would be different from what I was used to. So obviously, even though the moment that got stuck in my head to this day about that specific video was the infamous stare moment from that Vlive (you know the one Kookie went out of his way to get Jimin to come to him lol), I still pushed it to the back of my head  and told myself it was just teasing, that JM and JK were playing around and that it must’ve been something that was normal for them to do.

Which brings me to the point I’m trying to make. I, as a lot of shippers, tend or prefer to think of themselves as rational and mature enough not to let themselves get too carried away with this whole thing. I turned thirty a little over a month ago, (that is, of course, in no way a certificate of maturity and rationality or even of moral to talk about a lot of things), but it surely can explain why I tend to be, most of the times, against about affirming truths and taking everything I hear as reality or facts. I’m still young but my age allows me the audacity to say I have gained enough experience so far to know that not everything that shines or looks like gold is in fact gold.

I follow a lot of accounts dedicated to jikook on IG and Tumblr but only a couple on YT, and from most of them I only expect cute moments and funny edits to entertain me and bring a smile to my face. There are only a few of them I actually take seriously because they make good points, with valid reasons and good analysis of facts and moments that are actually relevant and questionable.

A lot of people might not like this, but to me most of any ship moments are meaningless as proofs of a true relationship, or at least the way they are over analyzed really makes me cringe and wonder why am I even wasting my time on this, when people stretch a simple side hug or hand touching as a determining factor in this whole quest of proving a pair is actually a romantic couple. And let me make it clear that I’m not claiming that those moments couldn’t mean more than what they appear to be. What I want to highlight is that everything can have a meaning in a context. I’m not gonna be impressed by Jikook staring at each other fondly if I know they do that with everybody else or that they’re doing it as a joke or as part of an act or dare or something else.

To me the most important factor in differentiating Jikook from other ships, or to differentiate any ship from another actually, is to look at the big picture. Take a step back and look at their situation, at the kind of community or society they’re inserted in, at what is expected of them, and, to me this is a crucial point, at how they interact with each other vs how to they interact with other people that are just as close to them as their possible partner.

The point I see many non-shippers make is that we shouldn’t take any moments from a certain ship seriously because of the culture difference, because of fan service, and, the one that I really want to tackle, because the idea of two males actually being in love and/or in a relationship is unthinkable, preposterous or simply ridiculous.

The one about cultural difference I can accept to a certain degree because it is a fact and we can’t deny it. The world has become a small village and borders are becoming blurred when it comes to culture property and stuff, but it still doesn’t mean there aren’t considerable differences we should be aware and mindful of. No matter how strange and questioning they are to us, we still need to respect them and understand that just because we are used to our ways it doesn’t mean our way is the only right way.

With that being said, I also want to point out, that no matter how different our cultures and ways are, there are still some things that connect us all as human beings. Love, friendship and affection are some of those things. The way we express them might differ from place to place in some aspects but people everywhere experience them. And as things that connect us, I don’t think is ridiculous to say a person in Africa can identify a love relationship or friendship in Asia or America or anywhere else in the world. It’s really not that complicated.

About fan service, I have questions: seriously? Do people actually believe every time Jikook show affection for each other they’re acting? So, they don’t have a real life or family or personal opinions or free will? Are they just a product from BH that is willing to go through some extents just to please the fans without regards to their own will or personal lives? Come on, people!

Now to the ridiculousness that is the idea of Jimin, a man, and Jungkook, another man, being in love and/or in a relationship. I have questions too.

Why is it impossible for it to be a fact?

Why?

Why?

Is it a rare thing for there to be homosexual couples in our heterosexual midst? Are same sex couples an abnormality, even in our days and progressive society? Is homosexuality a made-up thing? Was it made up by delusional shippers with nothing else to do than to fantasize and fetishize two undoubtedly macho-man-that-could-be-anything-but-bros? Give me a break!

I am not affirming or claiming they are gay, or in a relationship or in love or are attracted sexually to each other. I honestly don’t care, and don’t think anybody should either, about what anybody does between four walls with whomever if there is consent and respect between all parties. It is none of our business what any of the boys like sexually, romantically or whatever.

I ship Jikook because it came a point when my reasonings, my trying to find plausible explanations for their actions that didn’t involve the possibility that there was something more than friendship between them became more delusional and cynical than to actually consider the chance that, ok, maybe there is in fact something there.

We can be careful on how we tread in this ship road; we have to be suspicious and try to see things from as many pov’s as possible so as not to cross the boundary from a healthy and unharmful shipping that is done for fun and get into delusional and invasive territory. But, denying the possibility that Jikook could be real just because one is, either  bothered by it because it is in the way of their own ship, or super bothered by the mere thought of ew gay, is absolutely ridiculous and pathetic.

[jonginsboyfriend]

Reducing any form of gay support or acknowledgement to just a fangirl getting off on 'a yaoi fantasy' is actually a lot more harmful than thinking that there might be something real between two women or men.It says a lot about the people who resort to these types of attacks :

First of all the term 'yaoi' is used predominantly in the anime community to describe any relationship between two male characters. This term I have never seen being used to refer to a relationship between two real men,until I got into kpop. I know some people think that kpop is just an extension of anime where the 'hot asian guys came to life' but let's get one thing clear. It is NEVER okay to refer to a relationship or potential relationship between two gay men as yaoi. By doing this you only transform real people into characters ! And you basically reduce them to characters in some imaginary scenario (the one that you made up in your head already ) and not REAL people.

Which brings me to the second point: believing that anything that has to do with gay men or people in general is just a fantasy that fetishizes them.The term 'fantasy' in itself is problematic because it implies that a relationship between two men cannot occur in the real world and so it becomes only a pleasant dream and nothing else. Gay men do in fact exist in the real world and yes even in South Korea as well because even if it's a taboo even if it's not legal to get married , it's not illegal to be gay and underground gay communities exist.Get this idea that people can't be gay because it is frowned upon on.You can't choose who you are and who you fall in love.Laws can't prevent that.So yes they may not exist publicly for sure they are not a fantasy either.

I have seen people say that Kaisoo is just a good fantasy to enjoy and read fics about but it can never be possibly real.Whether you think it might or might not be this kind of thinking fetishizes them a lot more than people who genuinely believe there might be something.By saying that it's a good fantasy to make fanart from , write or read fics about you actually transform them into an object of your immediate pleasure.They cease to become subjects and are only objects that satisfy your fleeting interests,for you to look at them through various modifications.

The fetishization discourse also comes in play because it assumes that any form of appreciation for a gay relationships means using them as a tool to satisfy one's sexual needs.Why do people automatically assume that? Because they view any kind of gay relationship as a purely a sexual one and eliminate any kind of romantic feeling. This is being done by a large number of people, even subconsciously. When they hear about a gay relationship their train of thought only goes to their sexual affairs and bedroom activities,any kind of 'normal' and romantic affiliation is erased.This is why people assume that you're only here for the sexual release because they subconsciously think about gay men or women in sexual affiliations.

Why don't they do it for heterosexual ships? Why don't people accuse their shippers of fetishization? It's because of the fact that any het relationship is viewed through romantic affiliation so obviously people cannot fetishize that.How many times have you heard about a het couple that they are so in love, so enamoured with each other but about a gay couple only the discourse of top/bottom?

But it is a fact that anything,anyone can be fetishized !! Love can be fantasized about,in fact it's one of the biggest things people dream about.A het couple can be fetishized.People can make fantasies about them and live through their lives.It is actually more easy to fantasize and make people objects in het relationship because one can easily take the place of the man or the woman and just project their suppressed sexual and romantic frustrations.It happens a lot with kpop het couples and I have never seen in any other community people attaching themselves to couples so much and depending and living through their lives.

Anyway the conclusion is that no, gay people aren't only just a fantasy to be enjoyed they are actually real people and you negating that but still going on about how cute they are and how much you enjoy fanfics or fanarts of them and excluding any possibility of any of it being real actually fetishizes them more than people who enjoy all of those things but are aware that they are not looking at characters of a story or of a fantasy.