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carnivalcarriondiscarded · 7 months

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ON THE TOPIC OF BARNABY. as well as his relationship with Wally.

So. To kick this off - Riv (@funonion) and I were Speculating, and they introduced me to the johari window:

They put Barnaby in the “facade” section, and I entirely agree. To quote them;

“So he’s Wally’s guide, right? He’s the “knowledgeable” one of the two and is always the one teaching him new things. And you know, it’s one thing if you’re just teaching him how to laugh or how to tell a joke. But.

Clown has given us two doors. One says that Barnaby understands Wally in a way the rest of the neighborhood doesn’t, and is willing to do his dirty work so to speak. The other says that their friendship was not a natural occurring thing and had to be enforced repeatedly within the show. HOW THAT’S BEING ENFORCED IS ANOTHER THING ENTIRELY but it is worth it to note.

What is Barnaby willing to keep? What is he willing to bury for his little buddy? I can’t say anything definitively yet, but the fact that I even have to ask is telling. The class clown archetype is usually used as a way to cover up for something else a character might be experiencing”

And my response, (I won’t directly quote because I have little things in the phrasing & elaboration to add / tweak );

Barnaby being a Comic Relief Character immediately raised so many alarms in my head. I love comic relief characters. They’re always so fucked up in one way or another, and Barnaby is almost certainly SO inauthentic. He’s wearing a comedy mask just as opaque as Wally’s own mask. In everything we’ve seen about him so far he’s either Teaching Wally, wisecracking/joking, or… pretty much nothing else. We got that moment of concern in audio 14-14, but that doesn’t reveal anything beyond genuine care for Wally.

Comedic characters have the best disguises. Their poker faces & ability to deflect is always top tier [and practiced], and just look at comedy-focused actors and entertainers - so many of them have severe issues, either with their mental health or life. From what i’ve observed both in that aspect & with fictional characters, they play it off & work hard to entertain/deflect [one in the same] right up until the end. Sometimes it’s a coping mechanism. Usually it’s both. If they laugh loud enough and make people think they’re lighthearted fools w/ nothing underneath, no one will look any deeper and thus they’re “safe”.

& I’m a little suspicious that Barnaby’s red/orange/yellow spots aren’t naturally those colors. While yes, he could be (in-universe) designed that way to echo Ms. Beagle, there’s a strong possibility that that’s not it. What if he paints them to feel a connection to her, or it’s a physical manifestation of Barnaby covering up his insecurities/issues - what if it’s part of him striving to convince the world that he is what he paints himself as.

The laidback funnyguy with a loving mom and not a problem in the world.

And I mean, Barnaby claims to be a natural blue and I believe him! But the other colors? I’m doubtful

(I was going to include the Cast As Lil Kids Designs in this since Barnaby has all blue spots, but given how early in 2021 it was posted and how there seem to be little discrepancies from the ~official~ designs, I don’t want to provide it as evidence.)

& on the topic of Wally and Barnaby’s relationship being both real and not - disclaimer, this conversation happened before my Updated Thoughts On Them post, so there may be some minor rephrasing here from what I originally said - I’m sure that the relationship started out as inauthentic. Wally was assigned Barnaby as a best friend and technically vice versa, but I don’t doubt for a second that it became real to some extent. Clown wouldn’t treat their relationship outside of “canon” WH stuff the way that he does if they weren’t actually friends. They’ve said that Wally & Barnaby would be friends in every universe (which melts my heart <3 platonic soulmates my beloved <3), so then I have to agree with Riv. what WILL Barnaby do for Wally? I touched on this in the Milk Theory, but especially if Barnaby prides himself on “knowing Wally better than anything else”, what would Barn do to preserve that?

This relates to another conversation we had - Barnaby possibly having abandonment issues. It’s such a choice to have him of all characters be explicitly stated as an orphan. That and while every other Neighbor with a mentioned family have a somewhat large one (Howdy and his gajillion relatives, Julie and her three siblings, Poppy and her crowded tree [note: Eddie has a mentioned mother, but that info is tenuous and who knows if there are other Dears]), Barnaby has also explicitly stated that Ms. Beagle is his only family. That’s it. And farm life can’t be a sociable way to grow up, not with all the chores he must have had and how rural he might have grown up. Barnaby jokes that Home is the “Big Apple”, which could just be a joke - but jokes often come from a place of truth, and Home might be the most populated area Barnaby has lived in. Who’s to say!

Either way, Barnaby was orphaned one way or another, and I don’t doubt that it weighs on him. Especially if his birth parents really did abandon him. That added to a possible life of loneliness… I wonder if he’s latched onto Wally emotionally, which would hit all the painful places if it turns out that my “Barnaby is more attached to Wally than Wally is to Barnaby” theory has merit. Abandonment issues could also strongly back the apparent walls he’s plastered over with circus tent fabric

Back to Barnaby & Wally: the fact that, at present, Barnaby and Wally seem to have the best disguises / strongest masks. That. looking at 14-14, i suspect that Barnaby is excellent at keeping his up, but as soon as Wally’s mask cracks, so does Barnaby’s.

And then there’s the side of their dynamic that we could look at - it seems to be a very multifaceted relationship. The way that Barnaby genuinely cares yet in the 00 Halloween audio Wally was left off to the side and Barnaby was just “checking on him” while socializing (then again, this could be part of Barnaby understanding Wally & respecting his space / Wally wanting a break from that socialization). Barnaby is patient with Wally and yet he seems to sometimes treat Wally as his sidekick / let him fade into the background and yet Barnaby kept checking in on Wally during the 14 bug audios (this last one I could tie into the abandonment issues theory).

Then there’s how Barnaby calls Wally kid & can tend to treat him like one despite both of them being in the same age group. The way that all of this could, in a way, relate to the infantilization of autistic people (no matter how well-meaning or unintentional) & internalized ableism.

Note: Riv pointed out that Barnaby does seem to be doing the best with what he has, and that this can connect to the Johari Window’s blind spot / unknown.

I do agree with this wholeheartedly! And I have to mention that - and making a Very educated guess here - the interactions we’ve seen take place in the very late 60s / very early 70s, so Barnaby’s behavior towards Wally is actually pretty fucking stellar given the time period. We can’t expect him to be perfect or do everything / say everything right. That would be boring I think! And one thing I deeply appreciate about the Neighbors & their dynamics is that they feel like real layered people, not cardboard cutouts being perfect caricatures of what people are “supposed” to be like.

Riv also presented this:

We likely are going to reach a point where Wally asks Barnaby something that he can’t / doesn’t want to / won’t answer. And like.. Ok. This is a slight tangent but I swear it’s related! When I first discovered WH and learned the Wally basics, I wondered two things.

Are we going to watch Wally “discover” new emotions? Because he certainly has them. Clown has said that Wally only ever feels happy, and a lot of people took that to mean that Wally can’t feel anything else. I don’t think we should take that answer at face value, because. I mean. Look at the project & creator we’re talking about. Layers, guys. Indirect direct answers. I think that Clown meant that Wally only ever feels happy in the Neighborhood because he has no reason to feel any negative emotion. Everything is as it should be. Until it isn’t - and I think that’s where he’s going to have to struggle with new emotions as he encounters them through new situations/events unfolding as the “story” starts to deteriorate. We’ve actually seen this a little bit - in Wally’s record audios (i believe the chronological second to last?), the way he says “Let Me In” so insistently. That’s definitely not a positive emotion being expressed.

How will the topic of death be handled - because it will be handled, it’s stated in the project warnings. I was wondering this even before I read the list, because I was presented with a blank slate puppet character and so went “oh fuck, this dude doesn’t know about death, does he?” Obviously I wanted to know how that would go. I want to know how it Will go!

How would Barnaby explain emotions that Wally doesn’t know how to convey? How would Barnaby explain death in a way that Wally would understand - given that Barnaby (& all the Neighbors sans Wally) knows what death is - and would Barnaby be willing to explain such a thing? I have a feeling we may find out.

And in a way, I suspect that if none of them know, Wally will find out himself and have to process it without help. But then again, how can something die if it was never really alive in the first place? Unless the death warning relates to human characters… I’m currently assuming it relates to both humans and puppets.

In conclusion: Barnaby has a carefully fabricated facade, he's doing the best with what he has but it likely won't be enough, and uh. shits fucked!

#AGH I HOPE IM PUTTING THESE POSTS TOGETHER CORRECTLY.#I HAVE TWO DAYS TO WRITE AND POST THEM ALL #but anyway another thing i was wondering in relation to barnaby & wally having an imbalanced relationship was #the possibility of:#howdy < barnaby < wally < home #as in the <[x] character is more important to the [y]< character than [y] is to [x]#because howdy does seem to like barnaby a whole hell of a lot but we don't know if barnaby feels so strongly back #idk. i feel like i might be seeing a little domino line being set up here. and im Nervous <3 #what happens if the first domino falls? who will it be? how hard will it fall.#who's to say if that has any merit i just wanted to mention it! its intriguing to me #(& to be clear since im aware of my laughingstock rep - im not talkin about shippy dominoes)#(i take off the shipping goggles for analysis. howdy can fully cherish barn as a Friend while still being [y]<)#homebogging #welcome home speculation #wh speculation #i feel like i have more in my brain but. im dealing with minor flu symptoms and im exhausted <3 #today was a Lot <3 #so i'll queue this for around 10 & hopefully I'll be awake & with the next post written for you guys!

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burst-of-iridescent · 2 years

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the southern raiders is seen as a “shippy” episode not because of rabid zutara shippers but because it is the only field trip that is entirely character and relationship based. while both aang and sokka’s field trips had additional plot elements that drove why and how those episodes happen (aang needed to learn firebending to face the fire lord, suki needed to be rescued to save sokka and toph in the finale), zuko’s field trip with katara is motivated purely by his care for her and desire to make amends. the only plot relevance of tsr is to set zuko and katara up to become a team in the finale, meaning the narrative significance of this episode is solely the bond between zuko and katara, which naturally encourages a romantic reading of the text given that such heavy focus and narrative weight is not often given to platonic relationships. in this essay, i will-

#zutara #the southern raiders #if i see one more person scream that zutara shippers are making TSR shippy i will screech #THE ENTIRE EPISODE IS ABOUT KATARA AND THAT INCLUDES HER BOND WITH ZUKO #IT IS THE ONLY EPISODE THAT NEVER NEEDED TO HAPPEN BEFORE THE FINALE FOR PLOT PURPOSES #AND THE ONLY REASON IT DID IS BC ZUKO AND KATARA’S RELATIONSHIP HAD TO BE REPAIRED #the plot focus of the episode IS their relationship!!!#zutara shippers are NOT the ones making it shippy i assure you #you can go take that up with elizabeth welch

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skitskatdacat63 · 4 months

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Happy 5/14!!!!

Aaaaahh not sure if this is my best work 😭 I just really wanted to draw smth for vettonso day but my brain hasn't really been functioning well LOL so I kept dreading working on this, especially bcs its so important to me, y'know? I hope it's good????? I'm happy with the concept, but I was just so unsure on so many of the angles and it was killing me. I did the color thing bcs I thought it'd add something interesting to it :) since I didn't paint it as I usually would

Anyways! Process!

Now I will explain all of them:

Boy king au is where it all starts of course. I think their relationship is the most developed in this compared to the others, but at the same point, they just start from such a different point, especially affection-wise. All of these kinda have a power dynamic, except the last one, and this is the most imbalanced. Fernando is being subservient, the only part of Seb he may kiss(in public lol) is his hand.

Matador au next. They hurt themselves when they try to be affectionate, because they live in the culture of a sport of violence and death. The sword separates them, their love for the sport keeps them apart, in fear that they hurt each other. Seb, yet again, looks down upon Fernando. Seb haunts Fernando's whole career, the constant overhanging presence. Also aside from that, shame that you can't see his three musketeers look bcs of the black background 😔

2012 core!!! I think this one is pretty easy to understand. Both of them often kiss their trophies, more so than any driver. So they're both trying to claim the wdc trophy by kissing it. Maybe you guys should just get rid of the trophy altogether and claim each other! But yes, just like the sword in the matador au one, the trophy and their ambitions divides, keeps them from ever bridging the vast gap between them, at least at that point in time.

The conclusion! Aka what I wish we will get at Imola 2024- kidding kidding. But it is 2024. Finally there is no conflict between them, there's no big thing keeping them in conflict, they can finally come together. Finally they can touch, there is no gap to bridge, they can appreciate each other, and appreciate what they failed to in years past.

The thesis is basically that they always have their aspirations between them, and their aspirations happen to be basically the same thing. Until those are resolved, the gap between them is too vast for them to recognize and/or find any commonality. How do you get along with someone when you're both fighting for the same thing? How do you get along when it feels like one of you is winning more? How do you get along when there's such a vast gap?

In boy king au, it's going to take a while before they both feel settled about the issue of the throne. That's what makes that au interesting, they're trapped in this state of non-closure and they have to actually solve their issues without the matter of one of them simply removing themselves from the equation. They have to find a way to get over themselves and their aspirations, because like it or not they're stuck with each other. I think with the hand kissing, it represents how Fernando, at that point, is only willing to play along with the game if it's tradition, and he often won't budge in other ways. Yes, I will show subservience, but only in this detached, formal way that I don't connect personally to. He's still holding his own bitterness over meaningfully appreciating Seb. Though it's not like Seb isn't at fault. It takes a while for him to not hold things over Fernando, and constantly humiliate him. One day they will meaningfully show affection, and it won't be some sort of power play.

I think matador au is pretty similar to real life, and the 2010s era(it's basically just their actual plot line but in the context of bullfighting.) They're forever going to have this big elephant in the room, and it only really gets resolved when one of them leaves the sport. Once they're not fighting directly against each other, they realize what they've been missing out on and what they were not appreciating for so many years beforehand. They finally come together because they can't just rely anymore on the sport keeping them together. They actually have to make that step to be in each other's lives, rather than just taking their presence for granted.

Also the text on the comic. "We keep missing, and missing, and missing, and finally kissing." It's basically: we keep missing the point of it all, we keep failing to appreciate each other presence in our lives and in our own individual grand stories. But when we're not forced together anymore, we have to make the choice to come together again ourselves. We keep missing what we actually need to do. Missing each other in favor of our aspirations. Etc etc. One day we will finally embrace and there will be nothing keeping us apart.

#hahaha im more proud of what i wrote under the cut so make sure to read that!#im happy w the concept but the art hurt my brain so its not my best work i dont think #i also never draw kissing #so please take my token of actual shippy affection for once #VETTONSO DAY!!!!!!!!!! AAAAHH #man im glad i realized that last wk bcs i think i wouldve never recovered if i didnt draw smth for it #tho thsts why i think i kinda dont like this drawing 😭#the process was rly stressful to me bcs im like I HAVE TO FINISH THIS #its my national holiday and i must pay my dues 🤧🤧#but im happy abt the plotline of this all :)#sigh. when will vettonso truly stop missing and actually start kissing #i rly hope 005's art and mine works as some sort of sacrifice so we get pics of them together from imola #like PLEASE guys if theres literally one thing you could do for me. it would make my year. genuinely #i just need that shock again of japan 23. just the completely unexpected pictures #cmon lets have a meetup of aston failboys as they look upon the amr24 and commiserate #^ see exactly the point of this art. they have this bridging them together.#conflict that keeps them together and that they can relate to rather than dividing them #conflict is not man vs man anymore. it's man vs car 😔#f1 #formula 1 #sebastian vettel #fernando alonso #vettonso #catie.art.#catie.rambling.txt

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spoopdeedoop · 11 months

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I mean this absolutely respectfully, but you should probably find a different duo name for Mei and MK than goldendragon--goldendragon is their ship name, so by tagging it as goldendragon, you're putting platonic content into the tags for people who are looking for romantic content of the two of them! It'd be like tagging a post about Wukong and Macaque being friends or brothers as shadowpeach--it clogs the tags and makes searching for content difficult. And again I mean this entirely respectfully, I'm not sure if they have a duo name though or what else to call them!

hi! so i figured i should explain myself a bit more in terms of using that tag lol.

i use the goldendragon tag despite me not shipping them because it's completely up to the viewer which context they decide to put the art in. i don't make the art with romantic intentions, but i don't mind people taking my goldendragon art as romantic. i just like their dynamic either way.

plus, goldendragon is the more well known tag of their duo and i want to reach the people that want to see more of them, i guess?

so i use goldendragon as the umbrella term for mk and mei. personally i don't ship them, but you are more than welcome to read my art of them as romantic.

i wouldn't call my art of them "platonic" art? it's just art of them.

tl;dr: i'm still gonna be using the tag because my art isn't strictly platonic. you can see it as romantic if you'd like. plenty of people do.

#i also think romance works in several different ways. just thinking that ship art has to be explicitly shippy feels very one dimensional #love - romantic or platonic - is multifaceted #and personally i don't see anything in my art that would make you think it's just platonic? again #you can read my art how you like #i dont make the art with romantic intention but you can read it as such if you want #i dont make it with strictly platonic intention really either. i dont think those two things can be so strictly defined #respectfully if you don't like seeing my posts you can just scroll away /nm /gen #or block me #i think i said in another ask. this app is free and everyone is welcome to it. if someone inconveniences you; just walk away #answered asks #spoop speaks

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piningpercussionist · 3 months

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transfem scott getting lots of support from ramona and kim in the early 2000's when shit's very taboo but they all 3 have a fire forged bond and lord if they aren't going to make sure they're all as happy as they can be because they've come this far and I dunno it just makes me happy all three of them

YES YES YES

It makes me very happy as well,,

Like I've said before. General Trans Scott enthusiast here- I love the idea of their little support network *violent coughing* I (we?) mean polycule *violent coughing* so fucking much.

Ramona I think has a bit of a more gentle hand with reassuring Scott with gender issues, but sometimes she just can't help herself from some pointed banter or teasing- how could you with someone so dense? (Said w affection)

And then Kim I think is more blunt. But like, in a good way mostly, you know? The kinda blunt that makes you snap to attention and go "Oh. Yeah that was silly of me." And if Ramona's started some sort of banter? Kim is SO piling on. Maybe sometimes she's a bit TOO blunt with it- but it's only because she's so firm in her support. She wants Scott to Get It Together- and be happier for it. So if some ribbing now and again is in order, then goddamnit she will do so! Anything to crack that shell.

And ohhh can you imagine how they would react to some transphobic bullshit?? Unholy terror would be driven into the offender before they walk off with an absurd amount of coins between them. I can feel it in my bones. Scott doesn't even have to lift a finger (if the transphobe is even noticed/processed at all, bc I honestly can see Scott just. Not realizing someone's being transphobic.) Kim giving someone a lashing with her tongue as distraction and then Ramona coming in with the hammer- BAM! Free Money! Paying literally with your life for your transphobia. A Better And Just World.

And of course (transfem Scott more specifically, here,) the way Scott would start to flourish under their support... cagey and maybe a little (perhaps a lot-) resistant to start- but Kim's blunt affirmations and no nonsense attitude for bullshit (which is what Scott insisting on "being cis" would be, c'mon now,) and Ramona's also low bullshit tolerance but less Stabby (bc I won't lie, that's probably how Kim's comments would feel,) assurances? Ough... My Heart... Be Still-

I would Kill for them, Your Honor-

(Ran out of tags so putting this in the body of the post- I am SO tired someone pls sound off if this isn't as coherent as I am hoping this is. I WAS trying to nap and get the extra sleep I desperately needed but the writing bug... it Bit Me.... only a little but enough to stop that process-)

#for my trans masc scott hcs I am actually so seriously and deeply fond of Kim having been SO supportive of Scott in HS. It's so important +#+to me. it also makes their whole relationship sting a little more but ohhh man. I can just see Kim hyping him up and helping him get more+#+comfortable in his skin. Lisa would definitely help there too imo but just. ahhhhhgshcksjdhg #i need to put some transmasc scott hs stuff on my fic docket. but I have so many wips rn x~x pray for me chat #(literally stopped writing something to answer this dhdjshdjdgw I Am Part Of The Problem-)#as always to people looking for transfem scott stuff I point you towards Scott Pilgrim's Precious Little Egg on AO3- as well as Amy +#+Pilgrim's Precious Little Life (also AO3)#the second has 2 chapters out currently but I believe the 3rd is definitely underway! and then the first has 22 chapters out currently and #+I believe part 3 has just kicked off w that latest one #you've seen some of the authors here before I'm like 99% certain- even if you may not have realized it lol #headcanons #scott pilgrim headcanons #sp comic #spto #spvtw #ramona flowers #kim pine #scott pilgrim #sckimona #(not putting it into ship stuff but like. Definitely what was on the mind)#trans headcanon #trans scott pilgrim #ooc #asks #anon #gmorning all btw. i am still So Tired. I'm gonna try and maybe make more icons today if anyone has any requests? or otherwise I do have +#+some shippy stuff I need to get done. ninjastar edits. vague lukim thing potentially. kinda wanna draw more furry kimona--#i could do furry sckimona..... h m m m m.....#we'll see what happens! admittedly i do also have some Gaming Plans later today and I am helpless but to allow the monopolization of my tim #(fellow lesbians out there will Understand /hj) (if the person i would prefer to have not read that read that Politely Ignore pls-)

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