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shihalyfie · 3 years ago

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Hi :) If it's not too much trouble, could you please share your take on why they'd continue the Adventure brand after tri. was such a flop? (and a tangent: what does "dark history" even mean?). We got Kizuna, the reboot, and a 02 movie. Logically, it doesn't really make sense they'd keep investing in it.

This is a thorny topic, and I'd like to reiterate that although I've ended up making more posts related to this series and the discourse surrounding it recently (probably because it's even more on the mind now that another movie is on the horizon and a lot of people are apprehensive for various reasons), I do not want this blog to be making a brand out of being critical of this series. I’m writing this here and in public because I figured that there is a certain degree I need to clarify what I mean about audience reception/climate and how it might impact current or future works, and I’m admittedly also more than a little upset that I occasionally see Western fanbase criticisms of the series getting dismissed by people claiming that the only people mad about it are dramamongering or ignorant Westerners (which could not be further from the truth). However, this is mainly to address this and to answer your question, and is not intended to try and change anyone's existing opinion or impression of the series as much as it's me trying to explain (from my own personal reading of the situation) what practically went down with critical reception in real life; no more, no less.

The short summary of the matter is:

The series was a moderate financial success (albeit with some caveats; see the long version for details) and definitely outstripped a lot of prior attempts to revive the franchise;

However, the overall Japanese fanbase-side critical backlash from tri. was extremely and viciously negative to the point where even acknowledging the series too much could easily result in controversy;

Kizuna’s production and the PR surrounding it very obviously have this in mind with a lot of apparent “damage control” elements.

The long version is below.

Note that while I try to be diligent about citing my sources so people understand that I’m not just making things up wholesale, I’m deliberately refraining from linking certain things here this time, both because some of the things mentioned have some pretty crude things written there -- it’s not something I feel comfortable directing people to regardless of what language it’s in -- and because I don’t want to recklessly link things on social media and cause anyone to go after or harass the people involved. For the links that have been provided, please still be warned that some of them don’t really link to particularly pleasant things.

I am not writing the following information to suggest that anyone should agree or disagree with the sentiments being described. I know people tend to take "a lot of people like/hate this" as a signal of implication "it is correct to like/hate this" when it's not (and I especially dislike the idea of implying that Japanese fanbase opinions are the only correct ones). There's a reason I focus on "critical reception being this way" (because it influences marketing decisions and future direction) rather than how much this should impact one's personal feelings; this is coming from myself as someone who is shamelessly proud of liking many things that had bad critical reception, were financial failures, or are disliked by many. As I point out near the end, the situation also does seem to be changing for the better in more recent years as well.

Also, to be clear, I'm a single person who's observing everything best I can from my end, I have no affiliations with staff nor do I claim to, and as much as I'm capable of reading Japanese and thus reading a lot of people's impressions, I'm ultimately still another “outsider” looking in. These are my impressions from my observation of fan communal spaces, following artists and reading comments on social media and art posting websites, and results from social media searches. In the end, I know as much as anyone else about what happened, so this is just my two cents based on all of my personal observations.

A fanbase is a fanbase regardless of what part of the world you're from. There are people who love it and are shameless about saying so. There are people who have mixed feelings or at least aren't on extreme ends of the spectrum (as always, the loudest ones are always the most visible, but it's not always easy to claim they're the predominant percentage of the fanbase). That happens everywhere, and I still find that on every end I've seen. However, if I'm talking about my impressions and everything I’ve encountered, I will say that the overall Japanese reaction to tri. comes off as significantly more violently negative on average than the Western one, which is unusual because often it's the other way around. (I personally feel less so because the opinions are that fundamentally different and more so because we're honestly kind of loud and in-your-face people; otherwise, humans are mostly the same everywhere, and more often than not people feel roughly the same about everything if they’re given the same information to work with.)

This is not something I can say lightly, and thus would not say if I didn’t really get this impression, but...we're talking "casually looking up movie reviews for Kizuna have an overwhelming amount of people casually citing any acknowledgment of tri. elements as a negative element", or the fact that even communal wikis for "general" fandoms like Pixiv and Aniwota don't tend to hold back in being vicious about it (as of this writing, Pixiv's wiki refuses to consider it in the same timeline as Adventure, accusing it of being "a series that claims to be a sequel set three years after 02 but is in fact something different"). Again, there are people who openly enjoy it and actively advocate for it (and Pixiv even warns people to not lord over others about it condescendingly because of the fact that such people do exist), and this is also more of a reflection of “the hardcore fanbase on the Internet” and not necessarily the mainstream (after all, there are quite a few other Digimon works where the critical reception varies very heavily between the two). Nevertheless, the take-home is that the reputation is overall negative among the Internet fanbase to the point that this is the kind of sentiment you run into without trying all that hard.

I think, generally speaking, if we're just talking about why a lot of people resent the series, the reasons aren't that different from those on the Western side. However, that issue of "dark history" (黒歴史): there's a certain degree of demand from the more violently negative side of the fanbase that's, in a sense, asking official to treat it as a disgrace and never acknowledge it ever again, hence why Kizuna doing so much as borrowing things from it rather than rejecting it outright is still sometimes treated like it’s committing a sin. So it's somewhat close in spirit to a retcon movement, which is unusual because no other Digimon series gets this (not even 02; that was definitely a thing on the Western end, but while I'm sure there are people who hate it that much on their end too, I've never really seen it gain enough momentum for anyone to take it seriously). If anyone ever tells you that Japanese fanbases are nice to everything, either they don't know Japanese, are being willfully ignorant, or are lying to you, because there is such thing as drama in those areas, and in my experience, I've seen things get really nasty when things are sufficiently pushed over the edge, and if a fanbase wants to have drama, it will have drama. This happens to be one of those times.

(If you think this is extreme, please know that I also think so too, so I hope you really understand that me describing this sentiment does not mean I am personally endorsing it. Also, let me reiterate that the loudest section of the fanbase is not necessarily the predominant one; after all, as someone who’s been watching reactions to 02 over the years, I myself can attest that its hatedom has historically made it sound more despised than it actually is in practice.)

My impression is that the primary core sentiment behind why the series so much as existing and being validated is considered such an offense (rather than, say, just saying "wow, that writing was bad" and moving on) is heavily tied to the release circumstances the series came out in during 2015-2018, and the idea that "this series disrespected Adventure, and also disrespected the fanbase.” (I mean, really, regardless of what part of the world you’re from, sequels and adaptations tend to be held to a higher bar of expectation than standalone works, because they’re expected to do them justice.) A list of complaints I’ve come across a lot while reading through the above:

The Japanese fanbase is pretty good at recordkeeping when it comes to Adventure universe lore, partially because they got a lot of extra materials that weren’t localized, but also partially because adherence to it seems to generally be more Serious Business to them than it is elsewhere. For instance, “according to Adventure episode 45, ‘the one who wishes for stability’ (Homeostasis) only started choosing children in 1995, and therefore there can be no Chosen Children before 1995” is taken with such gravity that this, not anything to do with evolutions or timeline issues, is the main reason Hurricane Touchdown’s canonicity was disputed in that arena (because Wallace implies that he met his partners before 1995). It’s a huge reason the question of Kizuna also potentially not complying to lore came to the forefront, because tri. so flagrantly contradicts it so much that this issue became very high on the evaluation checklist. In practice, Kizuna actually goes against Adventure/02 very little, so the reason tri. in particular comes under fire for this is that it does it so blatantly there were theories as early as Part 1 that this series must take place in a parallel universe or something, and as soon as it became clear it didn’t, the resulting sentiment was “wow, you seriously thought nobody would notice?” (thus “disrespecting the audience”).

A lot of the characterization incongruity is extremely obvious when you’re following only the Japanese version, partially because it didn’t have certain localization-induced characterization changes (you are significantly less likely to notice a disparity with Mimi if you’re working off the American English dub where they actually did make her likely to step on others’ toes and be condescending, whereas in Japanese the disparity is jarring and hard to miss) and partially due to some things lost in translation (Mimi improperly using rough language on elders is much easier to spot as incongruity if you’re familiar with the language). Because it’s so difficult to miss, and honestly feels like a lot of strange writing decisions you’d make only if you really had no concept of what on earth happened in the original series, it only contributes to the idea that they were handling Adventure carelessly and disrespectfully without paying attention to what the series was even about (that, or worse, they didn’t care).

02 is generally well-liked there! It’s controversial no matter where you go, but as I said earlier, there was no way a retcon movement would have ever been taken seriously, and the predominant sentiment is that, even if you’re not a huge fan of it, its place in canon (even the epilogue) should be respected. So not only flagrantly going against 02-introduced lore but also doing that to a certain quartet is seen as malicious, and you don’t have as much of the converse discourse celebrating murdering the 02 quartet (yeah, that’s a thing that happened here) or accusing people with complaints of “just being salty because they like 02″ as nearly as much of a factor; I did see it happen, or at least dismissals akin to “well it’s Adventure targeted anyway,” but they were much less frequent. The issue with the 02 quartet is usually the first major one brought up, and there’s a lot of complaints even among those who don’t care for 02 as much that the way they went about it was inhumane and hypocritical, especially when killing Imperialdramon is fine but killing Meicoomon is a sin. Also, again, “you seriously think nobody will see a problem with how this doesn’t make sense?”

I think even those who are fans of the series generally agree with this, but part of the reason the actual real-life time this series went on is an important factor is that the PR campaign for this series was godawful. Nine months of clicking on an egg on a website pretending like audience participation meant something when in actuality it was blatantly obvious it was just a smokescreen to reveal info whenever they were ready? This resulted in a chain effect where even more innocuous/defensible things were viewed in a suspicious or negative light (for instance, "the scam of selling the fake Kaiser's goggles knowing Ken fans would buy it only to reveal that it's not him anyway"), and a bunch of progressively out-of-touch-with-the-fanbase statements and poor choices led to more sentiment “yeah, you’re just insulting the fanbase at this point,” and a general erosion of trust in official overall.

On top of that, the choice of release format to have it spread out as six movies over three years seems to have exacerbated the backlash to get much worse than it would have been otherwise, especially since one of the major grievances with the series is that how it basically strung people along, building up more and more unanswered questions before it became apparent it was never going to answer them anyway. So when you’re getting that frustrated feeling over three whole years, it feels like three years of prolonged torture, and it becomes much harder to forgive for the fallout than if you’d just marathoned the entire thing at once.

For those who are really into the Digimon (i.e. species) lore and null canon, while I’m not particularly well-versed in that side of the fanbase, it seems tri. fell afoul of them too for having inaccurately portrayed (at one point, mislabeled) special attacks and poorly done battle choreography, along with the treatment of Digimon in general (infantilized Digimon characterization, general lack of Digimon characters in general, very flippant treatment of the Digital World in Parts 3-5). If you say you’re going to “reboot” the Digital World and not address the entire can of worms that comes with basically damaging an entire civilization of Digimon, as you can imagine, a lot of people who actually really care about that are going to be pissed, and the emerging sentiment is “you’re billing this as a Digimon work, but you don’t even care about the monsters that make up this franchise.”

The director does not have a very positive reputation among those who know his work (beyond just Digimon), and in general there was a lot of suspicion around the fact they decided to get a guy whose career has primarily been built on harem and fanservice anime to direct a sequel to a children’s series. Add to that a ton of increasingly unnerving statements about how he intended to make the series “mature” in comparison to its predecessor (basically, an implication that Adventure and 02 were happy happy joy series where nothing bad ever happened) and descriptions of Adventure that implied a very, very poor grasp of anything that happened in it: inaccurate descriptions of their characters, poor awareness of 02′s place in the narrative, outright saying in Febri that he saw the Digimon as like perpetual kindergartners even after evolving, and generally such a flippant attitude that it drove home the idea that the director of an Adventure sequel had no respect for Adventure, made this series just to maliciously dunk on it for supposedly being immature, and has such a poor grasp of what it even was that it’s possible he may not have seen it in the first place (or if he did, clearly skimmed it to the extent he understood it poorly to pretty disturbing levels). As of this writing, Aniwota Wiki directly cites him as a major reason for the backlash.

In general, consensus seems to be that the most positively received aspect of the series (story-wise) was Part 3 (mostly its ending, but some are more amenable to the Takeru and Patamon drama), and the worst vitriol goes towards Parts 2 (for the blatantly contradictory portrayal of Mimi and Jou and the hypocritical killing of Imperialdramon) and 4 (basically the “point of no return” where even more optimistic people started getting really turned off). This is also what I suspect is behind the numbers on the infamous DigiPoll (although the percentage difference is admittedly low enough to fall within margin of error). However, there was suspicion about the series even from Part 1, with one prominent fanartist openly stating that it felt more like meeting a ton of new people than it did reuniting with anyone they knew.

So with all of that on the table: how did this affect official? The thing is that when I say “violently negative”, I mean that also entailed spamming official with said violently negative social media comments. While this is speculation, I am fairly certain that official must have realized how bad this was getting as early as between Parts 4 and 5, because that’s where a lot of really suspicious things started happening behind the scenes; while I imagine the anime series itself was now too far in to really do anything about it, one of the most visible producers suddenly vanished from the producer lineup and was replaced by Kinoshita Yousuke, who ended up being the only member of tri. staff shared with Kizuna (and, in general, the fact that not a single member of staff otherwise was retained kind of says a lot). Once the series ended in 2018 and the franchise slowly moved into Kizuna-related things, you might notice that tri.-branded merch production almost entirely screeched to a halt and official has been very touchy about acknowledging it too deeply; it’s not that they don’t, but it’s kind of an awfully low amount for what you’d think would be warranted for a series that’s supposed to be a full entry in the big-name Adventure brand.

The reason is, simply, that if they do acknowledge it too much, people will get pissed at them. That’s presumably why the tri. stage play (made during that interim period between Parts 4 and 5 and even branded with the title itself) and Kizuna are really hesitant to be too aggressive about tri. references; it’s not necessarily that official wants to blot it out of history like the most extreme opinions would like them to, but even being too enthusiastic about affirming it will also get them backlash, especially if the things they affirm are contradictory to Adventure or 02. And considering even the small references they did put in still got them criticism for “affirming” tri. too much, you can easily see that the backlash would have been much harder if they’d attempted more than that; staying as close as possible to Adventure and 02 and trying to deal with tri. elements only when they’re comparatively inoffensive was pretty much the “safe” thing to do in this scenario (especially since fully denying tri. would most certainly upset the people who did like the series, and if you have to ask me, I personally think this would have been a pretty crude thing to have done right after the series had just finished). Even interviews taken after the fact often involve quickly disclaiming involvement with the series, or, if they have to bring up something about it, discussing the less controversial aspects like the art (while the character designs were still controversial, it’s at least at the point where some fanartists will still be willing to make use of them even if they dislike the series, albeit often with prominent disclaimers) or the more well-received parts of Part 3; Kizuna was very conspicuously marketed as a standalone movie, even if it shared the point of “the Adventure kids, but older” that tri. had.

(Incidentally, the tri. stage play has generally been met with a good reputation and was received well even among people who were upset with the anime, so it was well-understood that they had no relation. In fact, said stage play is probably even better received than Kizuna, although that’s not too surprising given the controversial territory Kizuna goes into, making the stage play feel very play-it-safe in comparison.)

So, if we’re going to talk about Kizuna in particular: tri. was, to some degree, a moderate financial success, in the sense that it made quite a bit of money and did a lot to raise awareness of the Digimon brand still continuing...however, if you actually look at the sales figures for tri., they go down every movie; part of it was probably because of the progressively higher “hurdle” to get into a series midway, but consider that Gundam Unicorn (a movie series which tri.’s format was often compared to) had its sales go up per movie thanks to word of mouth and hype. So while tri. does seem to have gotten enough money to help sustain the franchise at first, the trade-off was an extremely livid fanbase that had shattered faith in the brand and in official, and so while continuing the Adventure brand might still be profitable, there was no way they were going to get away with continuing to do this lest everything eventually crash and burn.

Hence, if you look at the way Kizuna was produced and advertised, you can see a lot of it is blatantly geared at addressing a lot of the woes aimed at tri.: instead of the staff that had virtually no affiliation with Toei, the main members of staff announced were either from the original series (Seki and Yamatoya) or openly childhood fans, the 02 quartet was made into a huge advertising point as a dramatic DigiFes reveal (and character profies that tie into the 02 epilogue careers prominently part of the advertising from day one), and they even seemed to acknowledge the burnout on the original Adventure group by advertising it so heavily as “the last adventure of Taichi and his friends”, so you can see that there’s a huge sentiment of “damage control” with it. How successful that was...is debatable, since opinions have been all over the board; quite a few people were naturally so livid at what happened with tri. that Kizuna was just opening more of the wound, but there were also people who liked it much better and were willing to acknowledge it (with varying levels of enthusiasm, some simply saying “it was thankfully okay,” and some outright loving it), and there was a general sentiment even among those who disliked both that they at least understood what Kizuna was going for and that it didn’t feel as inherently disrespectful. (Of course, there are people who loved tri. and hated Kizuna, and there are people who loved both, too.)

Moreover, Kizuna actually has a slightly different target audience from tri.; there’s a pretty big difference between an OVA and a theatrical movie, and, quite simply, Kizuna was made under the assumption that a lot of people watching it may not have even seen tri. in the first place. An average of 11% of the country watched Adventure and 02, but the number of people who watched tri. is much smaller, in part due to the fact that its “theater” screenings were only very limited screenings compared to Kizuna being shown in theaters in Japan and worldwide, and in part due to the fact that watching six parts over three years is a pretty huge commitment for someone who may barely remember Digimon as anything beyond a show they watched as a kid, and may be liable to just fall off partway through because they simply just forgot. (Which also probably wasn’t helped by the infamously negative reputation, something that definitely wouldn’t encourage someone already on the fence.) And that’s yet another reason Kizuna couldn’t make too many concrete tri. references; being a theatrical movie, it needs to have as wide appeal as possible, and couldn’t risk locking out an audience that had a very high likelihood of not having seen it, much less to the end -- it may have somewhat been informed by tri.’s moderate financial success and precedent, but it ultimately was made for the original Adventure and 02 audience more than anything else.

I would say that, generally, while Kizuna is “controversial” for sure, reception towards the movie seems to be more positive than negative, it won over a large chunk of people who were burned out by tri., and it clearly seems to have been received well enough that it’s still being cashed in on a year after its release. The sheer existence of the upcoming 02-based movie is also probably a sign of Kizuna’s financial and critical success; Kinoshita confirmed at DigiFes 2020 that nothing was in production at the time, and stated shortly after the movie’s announcement that work on it had just started. So the decision to make it seems to have been made after eyeing Kizuna’s reception, and, moreover, the movie was initially advertised from the get-go with Kizuna’s director and writer (Taguchi and Yamatoya), meaning those two have curried enough goodwill from the fanbase that this can be used to promote the movie. (If not, you would think that having and advertising Seki would be the bigger priority.) While this is my own sentiment, I am personally doubtful official would have even considered 02 something remotely profitable enough on its own to cash in on if it weren’t for this entire sequence of events of 02′s snubbing in tri. revealing how much of a fanbase it had (especially with the sheer degree of “suspicious overcompensation” Kizuna had with its copious use of the 02 quartet and it tagging a remix of the first 02 ED on the Hanareteitemo single, followed by the drama CD and character songs), followed by Kizuna having success in advertising with them so heavily. Given all of the events between 2015 and now, it’s a bit ironic to see that 02 has now become basically the last resort to be able to continue anything in the original Adventure universe without getting too many people upset at them about it.

The bright side coming out of all of this is that, while it’s still a bit early to tell, now that we’re three years out from tri. finishing up and with Kizuna in the game, it seems there’s a possibility for things improving around tri.’s reception as well. Since a lot of the worst heated points of backlash against it have a very “you had to have been there” element (related to the PR, release schedule, and staff comments), those coming in “late” don’t have as much reason to be as pissed at it; I’ve seen at least one case of a fanartist getting back into the franchise because of Kizuna hype, watching tri. to catch up, casually criticizing it on Twitter, and moving on with their life, presumably because marathoning the whole thing being generally aware of what’ll happen in it and knowing Kizuna is coming after anyway gives you a lot less reason to be angry to the point of holding an outright grudge. Basically, even if you don’t like it, it’s much easier to actually go “yeah, didn’t like that,” not worry too much about it, and move on. Likewise, I personally get the impression that official has been starting to get a little more confident about digging up elements related to it. Unfortunately, a fairly recent tweet promoting the series getting put on streaming services still got quite a few angry comments implying that they should be deleting the scourge from the Internet instead, so there’s still a long way to go, but hopefully the following years will see things improve further...

In regards to the reboot, I -- and I think a lot of people will agree with me -- have a bit of a hard time reading what exact audience it’s trying to appeal to; we have a few hints from official that they want parents to watch it with their children, and that it may have been a necessary ploy in order to secure their original timeslot. So basically, the Adventure branding gets parents who grew up with the original series to be interested in it and to show it to their kids, and convinces Fuji TV that it might be profitable. But as most people have figured by now, the series has a completely different philosophy and writing style -- I mean, the interview itself functionally admits it’s here to be more action-oriented and to have its own identity -- and the target audience is more the kids than anything else. As for the Internet fanbase of veterans, most people have been critical of its character writing and pacing, but other than a few stragglers who are still really pissed, it hasn’t attracted all that much vitriol, probably because in the end it’s an alternate universe, it doesn’t have any obligation to adhere to anything from the original even if it uses the branding, and it’s clearly still doing its job of being a kids’ show for kids who never saw the original series nor 02, so an attempt to call it “disrespectful” to the original doesn’t have much to stand on. A good number of people who are bored of it decided it wasn’t interesting to them and dropped it without incident, while other people are generally just enjoying it for being fun, and the huge amount of Digimon franchise fanservice with underrepresented Digimon and high fidelity to null canon lore is really pleasing the side of the fanbase that’s into that (I mean, Digimon World Golemon is really deep in), so at the very least, there’s not a lot to be super-upset about.

#tri negativity #shiha's ask box #springcrafter

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momtaku · 5 years ago

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I just saw someone say Ymir and Hisu's relationship is "sisterly".. I can't deal with this shit anymore! How?! Like.. is homophobia that powerful? It was on a youtube comment (yeah I know) mocking a guy questioning if Reiner was gay. Personally I don't know if he is but I always assumed his "crush" on Hisu was part of his soldier persona because everytime he mentions her in a romantic light its when he's in soldier mode and he never shows interest in her when he's the warrior. What do you think?

Anyone who claims Ymir and Historia are “sisterly” is either being a troll or else willfully ignorant. Since what you saw was in response to a comment about Reiner, I suspect the former.

Diving into Reiner’s sexuality, or that of most of the cast really, is fire I don’t enjoy playing with. Unless someone is trying to deliberately erase someone irrefutable canon sexual identity (as in the case of Ymir and Historia), I’m all for headcanoning what you want along with stay in your lane and play nice.

But you asked my opinion so here you go. I find him setting off Ymir’s gaydar in Utgard to be a solid 10 points in the Reiner is Gay column. I trust Ymir’s read on people and Reiner didn’t deny it. His yaoi birthdate is another point in that column. Like you I think it’s likely the crush on Historia was part of his soldiers persona, but I wouldn’t argue with people who view it otherwise.

Thanks for the ask!

#chatting with friends #reiner braun #besides him being a gay disaster it too much fun not to headcanon #Anonymous

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revelation19 · 5 years ago

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How come that you still believe in the heresies of calvinism? It goes against everything the early church taught, it has no connection to the historical church and has been rehashing old heresies ad infinitum. I have myself been a calvinist until I bothered reading all the church fathers. Nothing even remotely like it has ever been taught by the early church. To be deep in history truly means to cease to be a protestant.

The very fact that your page is full of those reformed clowns is proof enough that you know nothing about the early church apart from the brain washing you might have undergone in the seminary. you quote John Calvin instead of people like Clement of Rome, St. Athanasius etc Your theology is a joke at best, and damnable heresy at worst. You dont believe ANYTHING the early church believed. That level of ignorance is mind blowing.

They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer, because they confess not the Eucharist to be the flesh of our Saviour Jesus Christ, which suffered for our sins, and which the Father, of His goodness, raised up again. Those, therefore, who speak against this gift of God, incur death in the midst of their disputes. But it were better for them to treat it with respect, that they also might rise again. - sounds an awful a lot like your heretical group.

Notice how you didn’t mention anything about how Calvinism goes against Scripture? Strange huh?

I’ll start off by simply quoting Calvin’s own response to this claim.

“They [Catholics, i.e. you] unjustly set the ancient father against us (I mean the ancient writers of a better age of the Church) as if in them they had supporters of their own impiety. If the contest were to be determined by patristic authority, the tide of victory--to put it very modestly--would turn to our side. Now, these fathers have written many wise and excellent things. Still, what commonly happens to men has befallen them too, in some instances. For these so-called pious children of theirs, with all their sharpness of wit and judgment and spirit, worship only the faults and errors of the fathers. The good things that these fathers have written they either do not notice, or misrepresent or pervert. You might say that their only care is to gather dung amid gold. Then, with a frightful to-do, they overwhelm us as despisers and adversaries of the fathers! But we do not despise them; in fact, if it were to our present purpose, I could with no trouble at all prove that the greater part of what we are saying today meets their approval...

He who does not observe this distinction will have nothing certain in religion, inasmuch as these holy men were ignorant of many things, often disagreed among themselves, and sometimes even contradicted themselves. It is not without cause, they say that Solomon bids us not to transgress the limits set by our fathers (Prov. 22:28). But the same rule does not apply to boundaries of fields, and to obedience of faith, which must be so disposed that “it forgets its people and its father’s house” (Ps. 45:10). But if they love to allegorize so much, why do they not accept the apostles (rather than anyone else) as the “fathers” who have set the landmarks that it is unlawful to remove (Prov. 22:28)? Thus has Jerome interpreted this verse, and they have written his words in to their canons. But if our opponents want to preserve the limits set by the fathers according to their understanding of them, why do they themselves transgress them so willfully as often as it suits them?” -John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion

He goes on to list several occasions where the fathers explicitly disagree with official Catholic Dogma.

I’ll list some of those quotations from the fathers here and elaborate on how they contradict the Roman Catholic Church.

“Sozomen tells a remarkable story of Spyridion, bishop of Trimythus, in Cyprus, ‘That a stranger once happening to call upon him, in his travels in Lent, he having nothing in his house but a piece of pork, ordered that to be dressed and set before him: but the stranger refusing to eat flesh, saying, ‘He was a Christian,’ Spyridion replied, ‘For that very reason thou oughtest not to refuse it; for the word of God has pronounced all things clean to them that are clean.’” -Origines Ecclesiasticæ: Or, The Antiquities of the Christian Church

Here Spyridion says that it is unchristian to mandate fasting from meat during Lent as Christ has made all foods clean.

“For our Lord Jesus Christ, dwelling in your inner part, and inspiring into you a solicitude of fatherly and brotherly charity, whether our sons and brothers the monks, who neglect to obey blessed Paul the Apostle, when he says, “If any will not work, neither let him eat,” are to have that license permitted unto them; He, assuming unto His work your will and tongue, has commanded me out of you, that I should hereof write somewhat unto you. May He therefore Himself be present with me also, that I may obey in such sort that from His gift, in the very usefulness of fruitful labor, I may understand that I am indeed obeying Him.” -Augustine, On the Work of Monks

Here Augustine calls into question the entire monastic system and shows that it is contrary to Scripture.

“When I accompanied you to the holy place called Bethel, there to join you in celebrating the Collect, after the use of the Church, I came to a villa called Anablatha and, as I was passing, saw a lamp burning there. Asking what place it was, and learning it to be a church, I went in to pray, and found there a curtain hanging on the doors of the said church, dyed and embroidered. It bore an image either of Christ or of one of the saints; I do not rightly remember whose the image was. Seeing this, and being loth that an image of a man should be hung up in Christ's church contrary to the teaching of the Scriptures, I tore it asunder and advised the custodians of the place to use it as a winding sheet for some poor person.” -Epistle of Epiphanius to John of Jerusalem

Here Epiphanius shows that the use of images in Worship is not to be permitted. This position was reinforced by the 36th canon of the Council of Elvira which said “That there ought not to be images in a church, that what is worshipped and adored should not be depicted on the walls.”

"The sacrament of the body and blood of Christ, which we receive, is a divine thing, because by it we are made partakers of the divine-nature. Yet the substance or nature of the bread and wine does not cease. And assuredly the image and the similitude of the body and blood of Christ are celebrated in the performance of the mysteries.” - Galasius I, On the Dual Natures of Christ.

In this quote Galatius I rejects transubstantiation and points out that the elements represent a similitude of the body and blood. This is not to be confused with Zwinglian memorialism nor Lutheran Consubstantiation.

“In obscure matters where the Scriptures do not give guidance, rash judgment is to be avoided.” -Augustine, The Guilt and Remission of Sin; and Infant Baptism.

Augustine says that Scripture is to be the norming norm for all knowledge and that anywhere the Scriptures are silent we are to proceed with caution.

“Zealous of reforming the life of those who were engaged about the churches, the Synod enacted laws which were called canons. While they were deliberating about this, some thought that a law ought to be passed enacting that bishops and presbyters, deacons and subdeacons, should hold no intercourse with the wife they had espoused before they entered the priesthood; but Paphnutius, the confessor, stood up and testified against this proposition; he said that marriage was honorable and chaste, and that cohabitation with their own wives was chastity, and advised the Synod not to frame such a law, for it would be difficult to bear.” -Sozomen, Ecclesiastical History.

Here is a passage which describes Paphnutius arguing against celibacy of the pastorate at the council of Nicea. Paphnutius won and pastoral celibacy was not included in the Canons of the Council of Nicea.

Some of these are a bit dated and obscure, so I’ll include a couple quotes from people that you mentioned...

“And we, too, being called by His will to Christ Jesus, are not justified by ourselves, nor by our own wisdom, or understanding or godliness, or works which we have wrought in holiness of heart; but by that faith through which, from the beginning, Almighty God has justified all men; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.” -Clement of Rome, The First Epistle of Clement to the Corinthians

Clement of Rome is affirming the justification by faith in no uncertain terms here.

“The Holy and inspired Scriptures are sufficient of themselves for the preaching of the Truth.” - Athanasius, Contra Gentiles

Athanasius is saying that the Scriptures alone are sufficient, that there is no need to appeal to the Fathers or councils or popes or anything else... just the Word of God.

Now, you quote Cardinal Newman to say to be deep in Church history is to cease to be protestant... but I’m not even going to get into the history of Roman Catholic Church because this post is already way too long... and that would make it probably 3 times longer. I’ll just bring up this one anecdote from 1378 in which there were 3 popes simultaneously and they had to call a council to resolve the issue, forever dissolving any appeal to papal succession/authority.

#Anonymous

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not-a-space-alien · 5 years ago

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hey its me again wall of text sorry not sorry

k i saw your little treatise justifying zadr and yknow its a cartoon its not the worst thing ever of course nobody is gonna sue you for reblogging fanart or burn you at the stake or w/e and im glad you decided to open yourself up to a differing opinion but zim IS portrayed as an adult. there was even an unfinished episode where zim’s childhood and growing up training from start to finish would be shown so by the time of the pilot he is definitely a full grown developed adult by irken standards especially if hes a former member of an elite military force like the invaders. jhonen has said that the irony and sad comedy of zims character is that hes a grown ass man and a war veteran to boot who VOLUNTARILY goes to an elementary school every day and throws hands with an 11 year old boy who should be well below his notice because he’s that pathetic and desperate for validation that he’ll stoop to seeking it from a child. it also sets up a dynamic between them where dib is CHALLENGED by having to go up against an adult with way more experience than him while dib is just a child, so when he wins its more meaningful, which is a common trope in childrens fiction that an underdog young hero has to take down a powerful adult villain.

jhonen might joke a lot but he’s serious about this part of the characterization of zim and dib and he even went to great lengths to make dib look and act more like a kid in ETF (more emotional and naive, designed to look smaller/softer, going in depth with his relationship to his dad and sister and needing his dad to protect him at the end when he’s too overrun to fight alone) just to drive home the point of how young he is. it was a very deliberate move and jhonen knows what hes doing ESPECIALLY since he also left zim pretty much unchanged and also includes gags about zim’s relative maturity like animating him briefly grimacing because his joints are sore and the part where he pretty much gestures to his crotch and goes “theyre afraid to look at ALL-A THIS”. like you would not see jhonen do that sort of joke with an underage character ok. dont confuse his social awkwardness and self deprecating/trolling humor for not knowing the difference between right and wrong and not acknowledge when he means something sincerely because he doesn’t just clown on people and troll ALL THE TIME 24/7 hes a human, and times have changed with more awareness on issues such as the grooming of minors so he can go back on things he may have said in the past that he doesn’t agree with now or said by mistake. he has said enough times that zim is older than any human alive that its safe to take his word for it by now. judging by the one strip he did in JTHM about johnny murdering a pedophile who was about to prey on squee i think his stance on protecting kids is pretty clear. also i wouldnt put it past jhonen to have redesigned membrane to be more chaddy looking to divert the adult fandom’s attention away from dib and throw the fangirls a bone but thats a whole nother can of worms lol.

and the justification that zim is immature so hes essentially on dib’s level is a reversal of something lots of kids hear from either creepy or ignorant adults who tell them theyre “so mature for their age”. no matter how emotionally mature you are it wont ever compensate for the number of years youve been alive so that’s not very sound logic, and even in fic where theyre both adults it’s still pretty weird because it doesn’t erase their history where zim knew dib as a kid. that’s sort of like a grownup waiting with bated breath until a kid is “legal” so they can start dating. kinda like when jacob imprints on bella’s newborn daughter in twilight then having it handwaved away by saying he’ll wait till she’s grown up, which understandably drew a huge amount of criticism. it’s a loophole that might be mildly acceptable in some cases but the context leaves it colored with a residual ickiness that sets off some red flags for me and a lot of other people.

also you said zim is an alien and therefore the situation itself is unrealistic, but the reason invader zim’s writing resonates with people is because zim is written with very HUMAN emotions and motivations and part of the humor again is how irkens despite being aliens from another planet mirror some of humanity’s worst flaws such as being petty, gluttonous, willfully ignorant, arrogantly believing they are special and better than everyone else, easily manipulated by propaganda, all too eager to greedily colonize other societies etc making them not so different from us at all. so the premise out of context might not seem realistic but the idea of a sad burnout adult who doesn’t realize how humiliating it is to be consistently outsmarted by a kid less than half their age IS realistic and applicable to human interaction since we’ve likely all met someone like this before at one point in our lives for example a schoolteacher who has a personal vendetta against one or more of their students and has nothing better to do than antagonize them, or a really dumb parent that you fight with a lot.

another thing, i know you and other fans probably have a lot of sentimental value and nostalgia attached to zadr because you probably shipped it back when you were a kid yourself and you cant be blamed for something you liked as a kid, but youre an adult now, and you have to listen to the portion of kids in the fandom who dont like zadr and say without question that the age gap makes them uncomfortable. those kids ARE the priority. we’re grown up now and we have to put our feelings aside for them because that’s part of being responsible and mature. i feel like zim himself is a pretty good example of how not to act at our age [shrug emoji]

and anyway a lot of the same elements of zadr can be explored with zadf just as well with just as much potential for cute moments and as a bonus is it’s not creepy

You do bring up some good points, and I’m not saying you’re wrong... But honestly I’m still not convinced. I mean, stuff that Jhonen said, the thing is even if it’s the author saying it it’s still outside of canon, that’s the reason why Neil Gaiman got flack for Good Omens because they didn’t write an actual kiss or hug or hand-hold between Aziraphale and Crowley yet Neil Gaiman went on Twitter saying they were queer representation. I still don’t really put much stock into what he says because the unfinished episodes and Jhonen’s commentary don’t really change the dynamic that’s actually in the show. And again...Jhonen said if there were going to be romance in the show it would be Zim/Gaz, so he’s either a huge hypocrite or doesn’t view Zim as being incompatible with Gaz.

I do think it’s much better when Dib is an adult and it just makes more sense, and I actually do prefer zadf to zadr and if i were going to ever write fanfiction or make fanart it would probably just be zadf, just because i know this does have some stuff to think about and I totally respect that you have a different view of it, but i honestly just don’t see it that way. The analogy with Jacob imprinting on Bella’s child in Twilight isn’t really the same thing honestly. The author in that situation tried to make it not......that....by saying that imprinting isn’t always a romantic relationship thing, and that Jacob would be more of an older brother, but honestly that doesn’t really negate the impact of grooming that kid would have with Jacob around. The idea that Zim would somehow be grooming Dib seems really silly to me although you’re right, I think his characterization in Into the Florpus has evolved somewhat especially with regard to Dib wanting to get his father’s approval, but again Zim has parallels with that in trying to please the Tallest. the world-building and characterizations are inconsistent and scattershot at best. Like no, zim isn’t waiting for him to turn legal, that’s absurd, they’re nemeses coming at each other then learning to be friends. You’re right that that doesn’t have to be zadr but I still tag it as zadr so people can block it if they want to.

Like, I’ve seen people ship Zim with Professor Membrane instead of Dib. That seems very weird to me. that professor membrane would have a relationship with someone who literally goes to his son’s elementary school and who doesn’t know anything at all about human behavior and emotions.

I feel like with this discussion people don’t really understand the problem with age gaps. With age gaps, it’s not a matter of mature/immature, it’s about development. A ten year age gap sounds like a lot right? a 25-year-old and a 15-year old would absolutely have a predatory “relationship.” But a 35- and a 45-year old, that’s perfectly fine. Having a difference in age doesn’t automatically make the relationship unhealthy. so if Dib is 25 and Zim is [whatever the hell aliens years i still don’t really take Jhonen’s word for it bc he’s not consistent], that’s doesn’t mean it has to be bad. The thing about telling minors they’re “so mature for their age” to try and convince them that a person interested in them isn’t a pedophile is that we know a human being who is 15 isn’t developmentally at the same level as a 25-year-old regardless of their behavior. What is Zim? All we have to go on is how he acts, and he acts like Dib is an equal match, it’s not “he’s immature for his age,” it’s very unclear. Raw number of years isn’t the ultimate decider, for example in DnD lore elves reach maturity at, like, 100 years old so a 25-yo human trying to get with a 50-year-old elf would be predatory to the young elf even though the “younger” one is technically twice as old as the human. Do you see what I’m saying?

I also don’t really buy the idea that Invader Zim’s writing resonates with people because Zim is ~~so human~~. The guy steals a bunch of kid’s organs in one episode and flies into a tantrum over the slightest inconvenience. You have to be reading really deeply into it and dig into some old internet archives of things Jhonen Vasquez has said to paint it as realistic. You can do some interesting things with it wrt like, Zim being defective and starting to experience human emotions but that’s mostly fanon.

Well, you’ve given me some things to think about, thanks for explaining your side to me. I’m still going to tag things as #zadr so people can block if it can’t plausibly be categorized as zadf. I’m not actually making any fan content for Invader Zim so the point is kind of moot, but if I ever do I’ll definitely take this into consideration.

#invader zim #zadr #submission

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amandaoftherosemire · 6 years ago

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Lightning Strikes Part Five

Fandom: Marvel Avengers AU

Pairing: Thor Odinson X Reader

Characters: Thor Odinson, Loki Odinson, Bucky Barnes

Author: @amandaoftherosemire

Rating: Mature

Word Count: 5,280

Format: Series (Complete)

Warning: Language.

Summary: You spend time with Loki.

A/N: The first couple parts of this was written a while ago for @buckysforeverprincess 500 Follower Writing Prompt Challenge. Not consistent with Marvel canon. I have willfully and deliberately ignored the events of Infinity War. The Statesman made it to Earth after a largely uneventful journey and everyone is FINE. The only thing I’ve taken from Infinity War is Stormbreaker because it’s cool as hell.

I want to thank everyone who sticks with my fics since I’m terrible at updating regularly. I also want to thank everyone who leaves feedback or sends me messages about them. It really does encourage me to write. I might not have stuck with this if someone hadn’t dropped me an ask about it. This seems to be only true for me, but I have no problem with being asked when I’m going to update as long as you’re not a dick about it. 😄

This one took me some time until I stopped trying to make Loki do anything. It sounds weird but after a while I started thinking the real thing was fucking with me for daring to think I was in charge.

Part Four: Idolatry here

Antithesis

Several weeks later you sat at your desk in your office at the compound and tried with all your might to focus on one of the worst parts of your job. Full of legalese that proved to you beyond a shadow of a doubt that half the lawyers in the world only existed because the other half did, you were knee-deep in some bullshit. Reading documents like this was literally your least favorite part of the job description.

And it certainly didn't help that the author of the document was a member of the legal department with whom you were unfortunately familiar. You'd made it a point to not drink that heavily at office events since. The man may have been hot, but he was also an arrogant, pretentious fuckrag.

You couldn't help but be preoccupied. The Odinson brothers were driving you to distraction, though for very different reasons. You were running on fumes at this point, but you didn't know how to stop. Between the two, you were only getting a few hours of sleep a night even if it was only in making up missed work. Neither man was very good with the concept of deadlines or limited amounts of time, though Loki was the far worse of the two. You imagined you could thank Thor's time living on Earth, not to mention his sweet nature, for his greater consideration.

Thor. When he was there, he was quite possibly perfect. Funny and good natured, he was a joy to be around the vast majority of the time. Most of the time you spent together he seemed determined to wring everything he could get out of every minute with you. It was delightfully intense, because it wasn't just sex. Honestly, you'd have preferred it if it was, because he was sweet, and charming, and scarily intelligent, and you were terrified you were falling head over heels in love with him.

When he was there, he was the perfect companion, attentive without being overbearing, energetic without being exhausting, sweet without being cloying. He was also one of the most interesting men you'd ever met, a veritable fount of knowledge with an easy willingness to impart it. He had great stories, and a somewhat dramatic way of telling them. On top of that, he was a great listener, eager to learn everything you'd tell him about yourself, your life, your world. You'd yet to spend a boring minute in his presence.

When he was there, he made you feel like no one ever had before, like you were glowing from the inside out. He didn't just make you feel special, he seemed to think you were remarkable, as though he'd never even imagined someone like you. Aside from his myriad attractions, the outrageous body, the dreamy smile, the sweet and generous nature, that wonder at the reality of you would have been irresistible on its own. He sometimes had a look in his eye like he couldn't believe you were real. The idea that someone as extraordinary as Thor, considering where he'd come from and all that he'd seen, could find you not only astonishing, but delightfully so, was captivating.

When he was there, he couldn't seem to keep his hands off you, as though he thought you the sexiest woman on the planet. Not only was he ready, willing, and eager to go to bed whenever and wherever, he'd happily spend all day at it if you'd let him. To your amused chagrin, you'd now had sex in any number of rooms in the compound that you'd never even set foot in before. He was an utter hedonist, deeply sensual, basely sexual, and without an ounce of shame in his entire gorgeous body. Being his lover was both exhilarating and exhausting.

When he was there, you forgot all the reasons you should not fall in love with Thor Odinson. When he was there, you couldn't think about anything but the fact that you were happier with him than you'd ever been before. When he was there, you let tomorrow worry about itself and lived in the moment.

As he made every moment a shimmering jewel, as every moment dazzled you, seduced you, destroyed you, it was dangerously easy to lose yourself in him. When he was there.

That was the thing, though. He most often was NOT there.

Which you got. And not in that bullshit way where you say you get it, but you're only saying it because you know you're supposed to. You actually got it. You knew Thor had more than you could imagine on his plate; busy didn't begin to describe it. That he took the time he did to spend with you wasn't just flattering, it had the romantic corner of your heart sighing dreamily.

Unfortunately, when Thor wasn't there, which was most of the time, you were entirely too aware of how doomed your relationship with him truly was. Whether you looked at the differences in your circumstances, the distance between your homes, or the insanity of your lives, there was no way this could possibly work long term; you were sure of it. When you added in the fact that he was a king, a god, a hero, it was just getting ridiculous.

Lastly, there was the terrible thought you'd had once in the middle of the night that you never let yourself think again but that sat in the back of your brain like a goblin, snickering and waiting for its chance to start gnawing on your mind. You'd first thought of it when you were once again alone; Thor had left the afternoon before and your bed was suddenly depressingly cold and lonely. After hours of sleepless worry about all the other things bound to go wrong, you'd had a thought so awful, of an obstacle so insurmountable, you'd immediately wrapped it in layers of oh hell no and stuffed in the darkest corner in the smallest, darkest closet of your mind. If you didn't think of it, you could allow yourself to enjoy this glorious fantasy until something else destroyed the dream.

You'd had the thought because of Loki, actually. Not because of something he'd deliberately pointed out, but an offhand comment regarding something that happened when he and Thor had been children. The story had been funny, and Loki had a way of drawing you in, but a tiny detail had stuck inside your mind like a bur. That detail chafed, keeping your brain scratching at it until you came to the realization that ruined your hopes and broke your heart. Like an oyster with a grain of sand, you'd started covering that thought in layers until your mind could glide over it easily without any scraping or stumbling.

Loki, on the other hand, was always there, both when you wanted him and not. He acted as though he had decided you were the only person in the compound he could stand for more than a few minutes. You suspected he liked plenty of people way more than he let on, but he seemed devoted to his persona of smug superiority. Unfortunately, this meant when Loki got bored, he came looking for you. Being forced to behave himself and stay in the compound did not amuse or entertain him so he came looking for you a lot. As a matter of fact, he came looking for you all. the damn. time.

You adored Loki, truly. It wasn't that you objected to spending time with him. It was that you could not make him care about the fact that you had other things to do. He had no qualms about interrupting your workday, no matter how many times you asked him not to, leading to plenty of afterhours catch-up. He thought most of what you did was stupid, so he didn't give two shits about getting in the way of it. It was strangely admirable, his dedication to not giving a fuck.

The problem was that Loki didn't cause as much trouble when you were catering to his whims and dancing attendance upon him. To be fair, Loki didn't really cause trouble; it was more that he subtly arranged circumstances in favor of the most dramatic or disastrous outcome. He loved to sit back and watch fireworks he'd personally arranged. When you'd confided your difficulties in Pepper, she had assured you that time spent placating Loki would be considered work time if for no other reason than that it gave everyone else a break. At her direction, you had been spending most of your time at the compound to make it easier for you to tend to him and make the team members' lives a little easier while Loki was in residence.

Which is how you knew, when he strode into your office with an air of impatience, you'd be giving in to his whims after a sham refusal you'd enact purely for form.

"I’m bored." Loki burst into the room the way he did everything, with an arrogance that bordered on contempt. Perhaps it was a sign of something wrong with you, but Loki's attitude, rather than offending you, perfectly tickled the perverse part of your sense of humor.

You didn't even look up from your paperwork. You were entirely too familiar with this tune to do more than absently bob your head along with the beat. You scoffed. "I care."

Loki stared holes in the top of your head, not that it ever seemed to bother you. But then you often reacted in unexpected ways. Is that why he kept scratching at you? If he could understand you, predict your behavior, would you finally bore him as much as most humans? "Why, exactly, do you do this?" he asked, as he settled into one of the chairs in front of your desk.

"No, it’s fine." You rolled your eyes but kept your eyes off Loki. You knew from experience that once you looked at him, he would consider the acknowledgement as validation and you'd spend the rest of the day answering his questions. "I’m not trying to parse legalese right now or anything."

Loki stayed silent. He refused to repeat himself. Also, he'd noticed that his silence seemed to exasperate you faster than anything else. He examined his cuticles while he waited for the quiet to do its work.

For a while, the only sound in the room was the brush of fabric as either of you shifted position and the whisper of each turn of the page. You often printed legalese like this out so that you could mark on it without the risk of sending something like 'who the fuck does this asshole think he is?' to the asshole in question. You vowed to keep doing it, if for no other reason than that it was so much more dramatic than rolling a scroll button on a mouse.

You could tell by the quality of the hush that settled over the room that Loki was in one of his more difficult moods, meaning that he would only get more and more petulant the longer you put him off. Though you hated to do it as a matter of principle, you knew giving in would cost you far less time and annoyance than pretending to allow him to irritate you into paying attention to him. The pragmatist in you would not allow you to stand on principle when there was no benefit to you other than self-righteousness.

You gave an exaggerated sigh as marked your place in the document with a quickly scrawled LNA, your code for Loki Needs Attention and the current time. Pepper had asked you to keep track of how much time you were spending dancing attention on the Asgardian prince, though you didn’t include the time you gave on your off-hours.

You placed the document into a file folder, closing it carefully and placing your interlaced fingers on top as you made it clear you were focusing on Loki under protest and with utmost exasperation. "Why do I do what?"

Loki smiled inwardly even as his face moved into a sneer. "This!" He swept his arm out to take in the room they sat in. "Labor for these people?"

"Okay." You infused as much doubt as you could into the word. You looked around at your very nice office and decided not to ask what exactly he found so distasteful. "Two reasons. First, I love the things money can buy, like food and shelter and liquor. Second, because I’m fucking awesome at it. We done?" You lifted your eyebrows at him in the kind of bored disdain you knew he'd find most challenging, and thus most entertaining.

Loki matched your tone as he stood to wander the room and examine the furnishings. He did this every time. "I’d ask what you do in here, but frankly I don’t care."

You shot him a toothy grin and a beam of sarcastic cheer. "Great. Bye."

Loki didn't deign to answer this time. He knew he had you now. He could almost hear your mind rationalizing the decision to simply give in and give him what he wanted. In his experience, it was always best to let people manipulate themselves. He meandered over to the bookshelves, as he often did, where you had books and photographs taking up most of one long wall. Some of the books were work related, but plenty were from your personal collection.

Every time he came into this room, he liked to take a different book down from the shelf and skim through it. Your preferred reading material told him a great deal about you. Loki needed to understand you if he was to accurately assess the situation. He also liked to examine a different photo in the hopes of deciphering why you smiled like a lunatic in every picture you were in. He suspected it was something to hide behind, similar to his own superior smirk.

Loki eyes slid over the titles, looking for anything somewhat interesting that he hadn't already tried. He found human society largely boring if not aggravating, but he couldn't help but enjoy the art. He considered it mostly primitive, but with a raw energy that made it compelling. The depth and breadth of human art was the most impressive thing about the species, he thought. Not that that was saying much.

You were already bored watching him amble around your office. "Oh my god! You win; I don’t want to fight." Loki turned away from the bookcase with a smug smile. You laughed as soon as you saw it and rolled your eyes indulgently. "I’ll make you a deal. Give me an hour to take care of the most pressing matters, and at the end of that hour, I will set everything else aside to cater to your whims and find something to entertain you." You leveled a wryly amused look his way; you were both convinced you were outwitting the other but if you were honest the two of you just liked the drama of it.

Loki's face spread in a wickedly pleased smile and you couldn't help the little twinge of attraction that shimmered through you. Hell, you were faithful, not dead. Fairly gloating, Loki turned to leave. "I’ll be back in an hour."

"Outstanding,” you replied with a thin smile.

As Loki opened the door, Bucky was raising his fist to knock on it. The two men glared at one another for a moment before Bucky rolled his eyes and stepped back, sweeping his arm out in a mockery of gallantry. Loki sneered but walked by without comment.

"Hey, doll." Once Loki was out of the way, Bucky poked his head through the door. "You got a minute?"

You replied with a flirty smile and batted eyelashes. "For you? Always." Bucky smiled sweetly as he came in and shut the door. He looked a little uncomfortable as he took the seat Loki had recently vacated. "Uh-oh," you said with widened eyes and raised brows. "Is everything okay?"

"I don't know. Is it?" Bucky was still looking a little uncomfortable, but his eyes shone with concern. You were baffled.

You looked around, your expression serious but a touch confused. "Is this a riddle?"

Bucky's face softened into a smile. "I don't see you anymore; I miss you." He leaned forward and placed his hand palm up on your desk. "If Thor isn't here, Loki is monopolizing your time."

"You have no idea," you replied with a laugh as you leaned forward to place your hand in his. You squeezed gently and would have let go if he hadn’t held on. You frowned and tilted your head. “What?”

Bucky didn’t smile, and you realized that whatever this was, he was serious. “I'm worried,” he confessed, and you could tell he was concerned that he was crossing a line. This was new territory in your friendship and such things always caused Bucky a ton of anxiety.

You felt a pang of remorse that you’d forgotten about your other friends when the Odinson brothers had come into your life. Bucky was incredibly dear to you and you knew how difficult he sometimes found living at the compound. He'd once confessed that half the time the only thing keeping him there was Steve. You sometimes suspected he relied upon your company a great deal as well, not that he'd ever said anything. You couldn't help but feel guilty for being so distracted.

Bucky let go of your hand when you stood up and walked around the desk to sit in the chair next to his. You leaned back casually and crossed your legs, hoping to make it clear by your demeanor that you did not consider the subject off-limits or over the line. “About Thor?” you inquired with a sassy smirk. “Or Loki?”

“Truth be told, both,” Bucky replied with a wry laugh, “but Loki is the more immediate threat.”

"Well, love, I have good news and bad news." You leaned your elbow on the chair arm and placed your chin on your fist. "The bad news is that Loki would drive you all mad if I didn't keep him somewhat occupied. The good news is that he's not a threat, just a pain in my ass." You dropped your hand to Bucky's forearm and squeezed gently. "I know you don't understand this, but I like Loki.'

Bucky looked down at your hand, surprised to find that it didn't bother him that you were touching his metal arm. Perhaps it was because you hadn't seemed to notice. "Why?" he asked, his voice rich with a wealth of confusion, doubt, and amused disbelief.

You laughed and used the hand on his arm to push at him. "I like smartasses. Why do you think I'm madly in love with you?"

"Fine," Bucky smiled, but his eyes still looked worried. “Just promise me that you won't make the mistake of trusting him.”

“I'll thank you to not insult my intelligence,” you scoffed in reply. When Bucky didn’t answer, just continued to watch you carefully, you rolled your eyes and answered with a wry half-smile. “Oh my god, I promise.”

“Good.” Bucky relaxed into the chair with a wicked grin. “Now, you wanna tell me everything about Thor?”

Your expression turned sly as you shot a matching grin his way. “How much time you got?”

A few days later your office door flew inward with a slam as Loki’s voice rang out. “Y/N!”

You, once again, did not bother to look up from your work. “Sure. Come on in. I'm not quite obviously terribly awfully busy or anything.”

“I don't even know what odd human things you do in here, let alone why it matters.” Loki moved to the other side of the desk and looked down his nose at you from his towering height.

You shrugged and murmured absently, “Since you're asking—"

“I most certainly am not.” Loki cut you off with a sneer.

You finally looked up at Loki, blinking to bring yourself back to the present. “Did you come in here for an actual reason, or did you just need someone to pay attention to you?”

“How is that not an actual reason?” His lips twitched ever so slightly, something you'd learned was one of his tells. He was in one of his playful moods, which was surprising considering how put out he had been the day before when you'd opted to spend your evening with Steve and Bucky. Loki had hidden it well, but he'd been irritated under the disdain when he refused to join you.

The corner of your mouth curled up just a hair as you responded. "Loki, to your astonishment I’m sure, catering to your moods is not actually in my job description."

Loki, ever mercurial, turned away from you to walk to your bookshelves. "If you’re certain you don’t have any time for me; I suppose I can amuse myself."

"I know that’s meant to send a chill down my spine." Your voice was dry as dust, but the genuine amusement came through loud and clear. "And it does, but it is not the policy of this office to negotiate with terrorists.”

"Pet," Loki's voice had taken on a strange timbre when he said the word, and it sent a literal shiver down your spine, but whether it was fear or desire you weren't entirely sure. "I’d much rather annoy you than someone else. The others aren’t as much fun."

You opted to put the sensation out of your mind. If it was fear there was little good dwelling on it would do for you. If it was desire, dwelling on it would most definitely make things worse. You answered as though his voice hadn't taken on an almost seductive tone. "If you will behave yourself for the rest of the morning, I’ll take a long lunch and give you my undivided attention the whole time. Deal?"

Loki smiled.

After you'd eaten a quick lunch, you drug Loki outside to enjoy the sunshine. Once you'd flopped down onto the grass and braced yourself on your elbows to tilt your face to the sun, you slanted a raised eyebrow in his direction. "Okay, spill. What’s your deal?"

You had your eyes closed against the light, but you could hear the sneer on his face loud and clear. "I beg your pardon?"

"Loki," you began and there was a wealth of patience in your tone. You opened one eye to fix him with a gimlet stare. "I am neither naïve nor stupid. Why are you paying so much attention to me? Is it because I'm banging your brother?"

The sneer twisted from arrogance to disgust. "For reasons that currently escape me, I actually enjoy your company." You gasped dramatically and let your muscles go limp, dropping to the ground in a mock faint. Loki rolled his eyes even as his mouth twitched. "I know. I was shocked, too."

You opened your eyes and looked up at his amused scorn. Though most wouldn't understand why, you were deeply touched. This was probably the nicest he'd ever been to a human. You smiled at him, and for once it was utterly genuine and sincere, with no sarcasm or disdain to hide behind. "Loki, are we friends?"

Loki watched you out of the corner of his eye. He had long ago learned to hide his true feelings behind whatever mask suited his needs best at any given time. He had seen in you the same tendency for all you hid behind careless charm and a sense of humor. Until this moment, however, he hadn't suspected that you hid a tender heart.

He had thought you were one like him, cynical, cold, careless. To find in your open and unguarded smile something sweet and wholesome explained one conundrum even as it raised a whole host of other problems. He felt a tiny twinge of remorse, a rarity for him even these days. He sniffed. "No. You're my pet."

"Then I expect you to start bringing me presents and treats." You closed your eyes again and spoke archly. You could tell something bothered him and assumed it was his discomfort with anything resembling sincerity or sentiment. "If I'm going to be a pet, I insist on being a spoiled one."

Loki turned his head to look at you properly. He could tell immediately what you were doing and found it both disarmingly sweet and deeply disturbing. You were far too perceptive for you own good and he still had many, many secrets to protect. "You are wasted on my brother. You know that, right?"

You hated when he did this. You steadfastly refused to discuss with Loki whatever was happening between you and Thor. Though their relationship seemed easier than you’d expected, considering the stories you’d heard from others, there was still a tension between them you didn’t understand and neither man seemed interested in explaining.

The few times Loki had commented on your relationship with Thor, he’d made it clear he disapproved. You also steadfastly refused to ask what exactly he disapproved of. You allowed Loki to tell stories from their past, but you would not talk about your present. It felt… disloyal. To both of them.

“I do not. Your brother doesn't waste a bit of me.” You kept your eyes closed but let your lips curve into a satisfied feline smile. “He uses every part.”

The horrified silence that followed had you prying one eye open to glance up at Loki. You immediately burst into fits of wicked laughter at the look of disgust and loathing you found on his face. “Why would you say such a thing to me?” he asked, his tone rich with disbelief and a hint of hurt.

“You're being a dick,” you replied with a careless shrug and a challenging grin when you’d stopped laughing.

Loki expression hardly changed, but his face took on a sinister cast that had a chill running down your spine. For the first time since you’d met him, you truly believed him capable of the things you knew he’d done. “He'll never truly appreciate you,” he mocked, both sly and cruel, “because he'll never truly understand you.”

You yawned, deliberately, as his words and demeanor were making you sick to your stomach. “You make me sound so complicated and mysterious.” You closed your eyes again, a deliberate dismissal. “It’s dumb, but I dig it.”

Loki made a sound somewhere between a scoff and a snort. “You may be able to fool those like my brother too dull and blind to see what you really are, but don’t insult me.”

“And what am I?” Your voice was harsh as you asked the question, and you sat up to look Loki full in the face. You were holding onto your temper with both hands; only the knowledge that he would love to goad you into a tantrum restraining you. “Really?”

“A realist, like me.” Loki was well aware of what he was doing. He turned his head and looked out across the grass at the main building. He wondered what it would take to truly set you off and considered it necessary to find out. “You don't concern yourself with what's right, but what's expedient.”

You frowned. This wasn’t what you were expecting, and you weren’t sure how to proceed. He was being insulting, but in a way that made you question whether that was his intent. “I prefer to think of myself as a pragmatist,” you said slowly. Your somewhat warped sense of humor rushed to the fore and you laughed as you pushed at his shoulder, not that you moved him even a little. “And I do so worry about doing what's right. I just take what's expedient into account, too.”

The corner of Loki’s mouth lifted in a small smile. Your casual shrug as you said the last only proved his point as far as he was concerned. “You also have a talent for reframing things in your favor. Of shuffling words until you're in the right. I admire that.”

“So, you're saying I'm too good for your brother because I’m too much like you?”

“No,” he chuckled. “He's too good for the both of us. I'm saying he'll never comprehend your true worth because he's too good.”

“Okay.” You weren’t sure how he’d managed to drag you into this conversation. Now that you had been, however, you desperately wanted to know why. "For the sake of argument, let's assume that I accept your premise. What's your fucking point?"

Loki finally looked at you, one brow raising in mock surprise. "Do I need one?" You raised a matching eyebrow, but yours was skeptical. Loki narrowed his eyes, his expression turning menacing. "I’m somewhat fond of you. I don’t think I’d enjoy seeing you in pain."

Unable to help yourself, even knowing you'd end up paying for it, you snickered outright. "I have bad news for you, Loki. It sure seems like you’re my friend."

The look of disgust Loki shot your way had you erupting into gales of delighted laughter. Worth it.

You never did get a straight answer out of him, but that was only to be expected. Loki could give lessons on inscrutability. You opted to file away the conversation for further contemplation at a later date.

Even though you weren't entirely sure why Loki had given you what you assumed was a warning, you were sure that Loki never did anything without reason. The reason may seem batshit crazy to you, but it was there. If he felt the need to speak on the subject, he had a purpose. However, you also couldn't discount the possibility that he was simply fucking with you for his own entertainment.

Regardless, you put it away, knowing you’d end up obsessing on it in the middle of the night during some bout of insomnia when Thor wasn’t there to exhaust you into sleep.

The next day you burst into the common kitchen in a towering rage, holding something sparkling and pink. You flung the thing at Loki’s feet, your entire demeanor pure, unbridled fight me. Pushing your face into his as best you could considering his height, you pointed imperiously at the ridiculous thing he'd left in a beautifully wrapped gift box on your desk. You shouted, your voice practically booming through the room and turning all heads your way, "Did you gift wrap a fucking leash?!"

Loki was as close to speechless as he ever got. The sight of you in a full-blown temper was something truly magnificent. Your narrowed eyes sparkled with rage and your lips parted to let furious huffs of breath through. He found it interesting that passion, whether from anger or desire, made you beautiful.

Rather than say that, however, Loki’s lips curved in an amused smile as he replied, “I thought you want to be spoiled, pet.” His expression shifted into a mockery of innocence. “Is this not what you meant?”

Loki braced for the explosion, certain he’d pushed you into losing your temper completely. Instead, the humor of the moment struck you with such force that you couldn’t stop the laughter that bubbled up inside you. He’d somehow acquired a cat collar that spelled out your name in rhinestones, for fuck’s sake.

As your expression melted from furious insult to genuine merriment, Loki felt another of those annoying pangs of remorse. It really was too bad. As humans went, you’d just become one of his favorites.

Part Six: Crucible here

Taglist: (Tags are open)

@lbouvet @rocknroll-is-thewaytogo @chook007 @quickies-with-quicksilver @deinopis @daylight-saver @rishlo @pebblesz892 @bibliophile1773 @bojabee @knightofreaders @thatawkwardlittlefangirl @666nunslut666 @lilulo-12 @tabbytyler @sunigyrl @hellzzzbelle @suz-123 @cheekygeek05 @pancake-pages

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#Thor Odinson #thor odinson x reader #Thor #thor x reader #thor x fem!reader #thor fanfiction #thor fanfic #marvel au #MCU fanfiction #Lightning Strikes #pantswrites #series

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theadventurezone · 8 years ago

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On The Adventure Zone Graphic Novel, Blue Taako, and Representation

Yesterday, we revealed some pages for our graphic novel adaptation of the first Adventure Zone arc, and received some criticism of the direction we went with for Taako’s coloring. This artwork reveal came some months after the first reveal of some of our characters, for which we also received criticism of our three leads, all of whom were white in these initial designs. Us and the graphic novel team realized that, yes, that is extremely bad, went back to the drawing board, and had several long discussions about how to best rectify this situation, resulting in the artwork revealed yesterday.

More or less all of the criticism we’ve received centers on Taako, whose skin is a pale blue color in these designs. What we’ve heard most is disappointment that Taako is not realized in these pages as a person of color — or, to be more specific, a Latinx or explicitly Mexican character. There was concern we had failed to follow through on an opportunity to get better representation for Latinx listeners, instead opting to take a safe route, and make Taako a fantasy color without any kind of real-world connection. Much of the criticism also focuses on how that color (or, to be more specific, green skin) has anti-semitic connotations.

This conversation was happening in certain corners of our fandom long before the graphic novel art reveal took place yesterday. We’ve heard criticism from some folks over our policy of not having canonical visual representations of any of our characters — a policy that has resulted in a genuinely humbling ocean of fan art, but also some instances of in-fighting between members of the community who take umbrage with one another’s disparate interpretations of these characters. Another criticism of that policy is that it inherently does not foster good representation, and in fact represents a noncommittal way of handling racial representation on this show.

Here’s the truth of the matter: I think all of this comes from this underlying friction between where The Adventure Zone and us, its creators, were when we started doing the podcast, and where we, the show, and you, the community, are at now.

Justin once described the show as a “car that learned how to fly,” which I think is an accurate way of describing this friction.

When we started, we did not consider the fact that folks would relate to these characters, or would care about what they looked like, or if they looked like them, or anything along those lines. We did not prioritize representation because we did not even think of it as being something we would need to prioritize. Part of that I can lay at the feet of the fact that The Adventure Zone started as a one-off filler episode of MBMBaM that we published while Justin was on paternity leave — we didn’t have that conversation because we didn’t think this show would be a show. But the larger reason is that the four of us are all white dudes, and have never had to think about our representation in media our entire lives.

I don’t take that shortcoming lightly, and I don’t expect anyone else to, either. There are so many things I would change if I could start over — some narrative loopholes, some shitty and thoughtless tropes — but this would be the largest one. If we had known what this show would become, we would have been more thoughtful about representation when we first made these characters. Instead, we didn’t consider what they would look like beyond what it said on these pre-rolled character sheets. We didn’t consider race beyond deciding whether Halflings, Elves, Tieflings or Dwarves possessed the best passive abilities.

Doing this show has educated all of us about representation, and clearly, we’re still not great at it. But starting out, it wasn’t even an afterthought — it just wasn’t a thought, because we didn’t know it was a thing to think about. Now we know, and the difficulties involved with reconciling where we started with what we now know are, simply put, monumental.

Justin named his character Taako, the joke being that this name sounds like “taco,” and that he would be pursuing a quest to invent tacos in this fantasy world. Justin thought of this name as a big and goofy joke several minutes before we started recording. The weight of that naming decision — that the decision could even have weight — did not enter his mind. This was a goofy one-off episode. He named his wizard Taako for the same reason that I named my Dwarven Cleric in the one-off D&D videos I’ve done at Polygon “Crag T’Nelson.”

Knowing the strife it’s caused, Justin wouldn’t have named this character Taako. In his own words:

“It was, in actuality, a dumb thing to do, compounded by the spur of the moment joke that Taako’s quest was to invent the taco. That was stupid, because the taco was invented by Mexican silver miners and not a wizard who, in the first episode, I claim hailed from “New Elfington.

“It was a spur of the moment goof, but one that I’ve felt consistently guilty about, on some level, for years. I never intended to be dismissive of a group, or a heritage, but that’s exactly what I did.”

This is the position we are in now, and have been in since the show started, and it is irreconcilable because of the decisions we made when we started doing this show: There are listeners and fans who want us to, in pursuit of better representation, make Taako a canonically Latinx or Mexican character. The result of that decision would be that Justin had made a Mexican character that he named after tacos, whose quest was to make a taco, and who spent the first half of the campaign stealing everything that wasn’t nailed to the ground.

That’s an oversimplified way of describing this inherently complicated problem. We have listeners who have no problem with Taako being a Mexican character named after tacos, as created by a white man. We have listeners who do have issues with that interpretation, and I can only imagine how a decision like that would read to someone who just picked this graphic novel up off a shelf at their local shop. We feel immensely uncomfortable with the idea of retroactively declaring Taako a member of any particular real-world group without factoring in that identity at all points while playing the game, viewing each action taken through a lens that has to be the first and last thing we would consider.

This was the stuff we and the graphic novel team considered while weighing the character designs, and deliberations were fucking tough. Where we landed was that, since Merle was canonically a Beach Dwarf, it made all kinds of sense for him to have darker skin. After wrestling with the above considerations, we landed on a look that felt right for Taako, which was based on a look that had started to become more popular among the fan art community for the show, in which he was drawn with green skin.

This was a while ago, and before the pushback against green Taako really kicked off. The historical basis for these claims are kind of speculative, but we took them seriously, and, in an effort to avoid running foul of them, went with more of a pale blue hue.

Yesterday, we learned there’s a High Elf variant in the PHB — which, clearly, we didn’t read that carefully when we started — called the Moon Elf that has those features. There’s also a Sun Elf variant that has “bronze skin and hair of copper, black, or golden blond,” which we also didn’t know about. (Though we’ve gotten lots of criticism saying that Taako’s original pre-made character sheet said he was a Sun Elf, and that we willfully ignored that canon aspect of his character, none of which is remotely true.)

Yesterday, after all this went down, we were all on the phone for hours, trying to figure out what to do. Our original line of thinking hadn’t changed: Making Taako Latinx means that Justin would have made a Mexican wizard that he named after tacos — which, from our perspective, isn’t great — who he then played without any consideration for the cultural ramifications of that identity. We got in the weeds a bit: Could we just make him a Sun Elf, and make him look closer to what the folks who are leveraging these criticisms want him to look, without addressing the specific real-world cultural identity that they want him to fill? Or is that a chicken shit half measure, and would do more harm than good?

That’s where we’re at today. There’s not an easy solution. There just isn’t. We have fans who want us to do better, to have more diversity in the three main characters of this book. But those characters were created and played by white people who didn’t consider the ramifications of their every action when viewed through a specific cultural lens while playing. Yesterday, we heard from folks who said it was problematic that we made Merle brown, considering that he has a backstory where he was, more or less, a deadbeat dad. That’s a harsh boiling down of the character, but the criticism absolutely has merit. We didn’t think of that when we decided on Merle’s new design. But it’s kind of exactly what I’m talking about here: If the Taako in this graphic novel had dark skin, how many similar criticisms could be laid at his feet? If we gave Magnus dark skin, and then he spent the campaign being the more physical, more aggressive, less intellectual member of his team, there are issues there, too. Is any of that good representation?

I’m not pitching these possibilities to be snide — I genuinely am not. But these are the things we’ve been struggling with since we decided to do this graphic novel. Our policy hasn’t changed — we still don’t consider any visual representations of these characters to be canon, and never will — but we also understand that this an insufficient way of responding to these criticisms.

The solution the whole team landed on for this graphic novel is imperfect. It has disappointed some people, and it is going to continue to disappoint some people. But there is no non-disappointing solution. And that’s not First Second’s fault, and it certainly isn’t Carey’s fault. It is completely because of the rock and a hard place that we’re positioned between, and all because of our failure to establish a solid foundation for these characters and their identities when we started this show. And for that, we’re so, earnestly, deeply sorry.

We’ve all felt fucking miserable since all of this happened yesterday, and not because of the criticism coming in, but because the folks offering that criticism feel unheard, ignored and hurt. I promise you, we did not ignore that criticism — we tried to do our best in a scenario without a perfect solution. That does not change the fact that this show is what it is because of the feedback our listeners have given us, full stop. It has made this project better, and us better, and all I can promise is that we’ll keep trying our hardest to do, and be, better.

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bisexual-books · 8 years ago

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Prepub Review - Ramona Blue by Julie Murphy

Guess who managed to get their hands on an advance reader copy of the year’s most anticipated bisexual book?

Before we start, all our book reviews contain MASSIVE SPOILERS and this one will be no different. Which means if you want to read this book spoiler free when it is released in May, turn back now!

Also, I have a LOT of thoughts on this book and how it plays into cultural narratives around non-monosexuality, so buckle up cuz this is gonna be a long one.

Everybody ready? Got a snack? Lets do this thing.

The most important thing you need to know about Ramona Blue is that its not a story about a lesbian who is “cured” by straight boy dick. Not even a little bit. Ramona flat-out says she is not straight and shuts characters down HARD when they make that assumption. There is no way you can read this book and walk away with the conclusion that it plays into a homophobic trope of men “turning” lesbians unless you are just willfully ignoring both subtext and very explicit text.

The connection between Ramona and Freddie (the straight guy) centers a lot of the emotional action, but it unfolds slowly and with a lot of deliberate choices. It’s also an interracial relationship in which he teaches her about blackness as much as she teaches him about queerness. The whole thing has a super social justice vibe about it. The characters make mistakes and missteps, but they (and the reader) are allowed to learn from them. The book is also grounded in the strong relationship between Ramona and her sister Hattie, creating something that is more akin to a classic coming of age story than a romance novel.

Now let's go deeper.

Bisexual feminist author Shiri Eisner writes a lot about how bisexuals operate in the gray area, the mushy middle, the space between homo/hetero. We are inherently boundary busters and shit destabilizers. I couldn’t help but think of her work while I was reading this book because at its core, Ramona Blue’s overarching theme is about finding oneself when your shit destabilizes and all that is left is the gray area.

That’s it. That’s the theme. This entire book is about boundary busting and category destabilizing.

Ramona starts the book with a strong identity, not just as a lesbian but believing she knows exactly what the rest of her life will be. By the end, she has moved into questioning not only her orientation but everything she had planned for life after high school. For example, she starts the book absolutely positive that she is not going to college, not leaving her small town, and not leaving the trailer where she shares a bedroom with her flighty, pregnant, older sister. She believes fanatically that she needs to stay put, and provide for the new baby emotionally and financially. She ends the book starting a pre-college program in another town after their trailer was destroyed in a tornado.

The subtext here is about as subtle as a brick to the face.

As far as her sexual identity, the book ends with her still unsure which label is right. Her sexuality is woven into that larger theme via character development that is deliberate and thoughtful. This book takes place over the course of a school year, giving Ramona plenty of time to examine herself and her options. And importantly, she ends the book liking herself despite her uncertain future on several fronts.

Don’t get me wrong -- I would have loved it if Ramona came out as bi in the end. Because I see Ramona as clearly bi (or some other flavor of non-monosexual). I come to this conclusion not just because she dates/has sex with a dude, but because there are a few little moments where she appreciates boys in a way that her lesbian friend clearly does not. She shares a profound emotional intimacy with Freddie in addition to overtly wanting him sexually. And her responses to the pressure to ‘pick the gay side’ are familiar to anyone who has come out as bi. But in the end, she doesn’t choose that word.

However I want to make clear that Ramona Blue doesn’t fall into the trope of the missing B word. She doesn’t react poorly to being asked if she is bi, she doesn’t insist that she just looooves people, doesn’t spit biphobia, put up with biphobic jokes, or wax about how she just doesn’t like labels. Murphy doesn’t treat it as an unspeakable thing. Ramona is considering if she is bi, but she just doesn’t know.

And that is okay. It is okay to be questioning. It’s ok to write books about teens who are questioning where they end the story still questioning. The problem I often have with bi representation is that questioning stories go to ridiculous lengths to avoid the word ‘bisexual’, or handle bisexuality in biphobic ways. Ramona Blue does none of this. As much as I want more explicitly bi literature, there is also a lot of value in this kind of questioning story because it is so rarely explored in ways that are this deliberate and well written. I appreciate Ramona Blue opening up a place in YA lit for a questioning story that is thematically sound and handled with such delicacy.

In queer culture, questioning is often portrayed exclusively as the stop between straightsville and gay town, but the reality is so much more complicated than that. For so many bisexuals, questioning comes around again after first identifying as gay or lesbian. For so many bisexuals, we continue questioning even when we pick a bi label. For so many bisexuals, questioning is always asking if they are ‘bi enough’. The bi experience of questioning is different than the gay/lesbian experience with questioning.

This book is touching on some of that difference and that complexity. It is destabilizing the neat tidy categories of gay and straight. I can understand that for monosexual people that can be scary and cause them to react in knee-jerk defensive ways to protect their own privilege. It can be offputting to read a book that centers questioning through a nonmonosexual queer lens instead of a ‘traditional’ gay/lesbian one.

I believe that is what is behind the rush of lesbians (who haven’t read the book) and would much rather deny the complexities of non-monosexual experience and instead label this book as ‘lesbophobic’. This book is only lesbophobic if you believe anyone who identifies as a lesbian should be forced to only/always be a lesbian because there is no room for questioning once that label has been applied.

Reading Ramona Blue made me remember Adam Silvera speaking at the Andersons YA Lit Con in 2016 about how he is so often assumed to be a gay author because he writes so many gay characters, but he too is questioning. He’s not sure if he is bi, but he’s become less comfortable over time with saying that he’s gay when he himself doesn’t know. That is exactly the feel Ramona Blue is going for.

So to sum up, Ramona Blue is not lesbophobic unless you’re a giant biphobe, has great depth and themes, and it fills a much-needed gap in the YA queer lit canon. The end result is a smart and enjoyable read.

- Sarah

PS: Because the last time I talked about this book we got a rash of threatening, cruel, biphobic, and generally fucked up asks, they’re temporarily turned off. If you have a response to this review, reblog it and own it publically. Because I’ve removed your option to lowkey tell me I deserve to be coercively raped fuckface

#ramona blue #ya books #queer books #julie murphy #reviews #prepub

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amandaoftherosemire · 6 years ago

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Lightning Strikes Part Three

Fandom: Marvel Avengers AU

Pairing: Thor Odinson X Fem!Reader

Characters: Thor Odinson

Author: @amandaoftherosemire

Rating: Mature

Word Count: 1,727

Format: Series (Complete)

Warning: Language, sexual themes and content

Summary: Thor walks you back to your rooms.

This was supposed to be a one-shot, but it was so fun to write and the lunatic voice in my head that has no impulse control kept going, “But then what if this happened?” so here we are. This part and the next were originally together but it was getting unmanagably long so I’m splitting it up. The following part will be mostly smut because I’m a complete slut for Thor. It’s also almost done so it should be up much more quickly than this one was.

Part Two: Crescendo here

Pas de Deux

You knew you’d made a mistake the moment Thor's lips touched yours. Not necessarily the kind on which a life could pivot, but a mistake nonetheless. However, even a small mistake often leads to another, and so can one bad decision cause a cascade of bad decisions that alter the course of a life.

But his lips were so soft and warm, so gentle against yours. He seemed to be acutely aware of his size and strength as he slid his arms around you and pulled you close. The juxtaposition of his immense strength against the delicacy with which he touched you was viciously erotic. As he gathered you close with smooth and careful hands, he deepened the kiss.

Thor's tongue swept between your parted lips into your mouth and now you knew his taste was so much wilder, so much more intense than you'd ever dreamed possible. You didn't know how, but Thor tasted the way lightning smells, metallic and exciting, like charged copper on the tongue. Coupled with his scent, a summer storm rolling in on a blustery mountain peak, like ozone and fresh rain on the wind, you were almost immediately in sensory overload.

The warmth of his body along with that savage scent seemed to seep into your skin, like a pheromone that woke long forgotten instincts that demanded more regardless of what your brain had to say about it. Frankly your brain wasn't much help either as it was currently focused on the source of the mistake, the underlying flavor that once you'd tasted, you knew you'd never be able to get enough.

You could have stepped away from the salt of the wild or the heat of the lightning, but upon deeper exploration, you discovered an underlying sweetness that had you desperate for more. Now that you knew how deliciously, wildly sweet his mouth was, how were you ever to stop?

And that was how you found yourself pressed against Thor in the middle of a hallway you knew for a fact was under surveillance due to its location in what was essentially your place of employment. The thought had you paradoxically tightening your arms around Thor’s neck because you knew you were going to have to let go.

Instead it was Thor who pulled away despite the fact that his arms had been even more tightly wound around you. You may have plastered yourself against him, but he had definitely helped. As he pulled back, he reached up to brush his thumb against the corner of your mouth. His gaze searing into yours and his voice like honey over gravel, he murmured, “Aren’t you sweet? Who knew plants could be so unpredictable?”

Speechless and wrapped in his warmth and scent, with lips still tingling from his, you stared up into his face in awe and disbelief. You licked your lips where his taste still lingered, and a shudder ran through your body. You opened your mouth to speak but, unable to form a coherent thought, you closed it again with a snap and turned without a word to walk away.

Behind you, Thor smiled, delighted. He was pretty sure he’d spent enough time on Earth to determine that you were genuinely unique. However, Thor had found that you were also as honey-sweet and heady as Asgardian mead, and with the same depth and mystery. He didn’t even hesitate to follow you like a puppy.

When he was at your side once again, you slanted him a sly look out of the corner of your eye. He was wearing a delighted but decidedly smug smile as he offered his arm. With reluctant amusement, you took it and continued to walk. Once your hand had curled around his forearm just below his elbow (Did he have muscles every damn where?), he spoke.

"You seem disturbed, lady.” His voice was low, somewhere between a growl and a purr and it seemed to shiver up your spine and over your scalp. Arousal roughened his voice, making you feel like the sound of it was rasping deliciously over your skin. You wondered if you should be flattered or if he always exuded sex like this.

There was no way you could invite him in when you got to your quarters.

Truthfully, you wanted to drag him into your rooms by a fistful of his t-shirt and have your way with him. You knew you shouldn’t. If just kissing him broke your brain, what would sex do to you? You were having a terrible time trying to convince yourself it was too dangerous to find out. Some mistakes, after all, can absolutely be worth it.

“I'm just trying to decide if I really want to acquire a new addiction,” you purred in response, a sultry half smile curving your mouth. “I have so many already.

“So, you find me addictive?” Thor had pulled away before he'd had nearly enough. The fact that anyone could walk by was the only thing that had stopped him from finding out how you felt about being pressed against the nearest wall and fucked until you screamed. He only let you go because he could feel his control fraying. The seductive look you shot him had him instantly rock hard. He needed to know he wasn’t the only one so affected.

"You don't need me to stroke your ego," you replied dryly. You rolled your eyes and jostled his arm playfully. "You know full well you should have a warning label on you."

Being close to him was dizzying. You felt like that warm scent was being absorbed by your skin and settling into your bones. The more time you spent with him, the more you craved him. It was like your body recognized him, wanted him, regardless of all else. It didn’t help that everything about him was making you forget that you could look but shouldn't touch. You were having just the worst time with the part of your brain that wanted to rationalize why touching wouldn't have to be a catastrophe when he smiled.

The quick smile, so full of fun and humor, had your heart fluttering in your chest and terror shivering up your spine. You were allowed to want, even need Thor. You were allowed to like him, allowed to enjoy him. Hell, you were allowed to crave him like air. You absolutely, positively were not allowed to fall in love. That way lay wreck and ruin.

"So, I read about a guy who got struck by lightning, like, six or seven separate times. Did that guy just piss you the fuck off, or what?"

You knew you'd made another mistake when he threw his head back and laughed out loud. The sound of his genuine laughter was too seductive. He looked down at you with humor and affection twinkling in his eye and all over his face. It was then you realized that unless he was flirting with you or laughing at something stupid you said, Thor’s face always held a touch of sadness. You felt yourself softening again and cursed inwardly. You had no defense against this kind of vulnerability, that of a strong person bearing up under impossible burdens.

Most people thought that you had gotten the job with the Avengers because you were extremely strong willed. Lord knew you had to be to deal with Tony Stark on a regular basis. However, you had a much more important quality to Pepper that lead her to choose you: she knew you wouldn't just take care of them, you'd care for them. You had a secret soft center for those in pain.

Without thinking and grinning cheekily, you tightened your grip on Thor’s arm and leaned into him, instinctively seeking to comfort. He grinned back at you as he replied, accepting the change in subject without comment, “I had nothing to do with that, I swear.”

You snorted. “It’s almost worse that it was just bad luck.” At his questioning glance you shrugged before elaborating. “At least ‘Thor’s a dick’ is a reason.”

He laughed again, and your heart melted a little. That's when you made another mistake. You stopped overthinking it and just enjoyed him. The rest of the walk to your quarters was slow as you took the long way around and conversed quietly. He was surprisingly smart, for all he looked like the world's sexiest jock. Even better, he was funny, too, with a sly sense of humor that complimented yours. He was also so sweet that by the time the two of you reached your quarters, you felt utterly safe with him.

Nonetheless, you were shocked when you turned to him, and instead of telling him goodbye, you heard yourself say, "Would you like to come in for a glass of wine?" You knew you had made yet another mistake when the slow, knowing smile spread across his face and you had to literally suppress a whimper.

"My dear Lady Plant," he replied, his voice low and husky with anticipation, "I would kill for a glass of wine."

Your heart already racing, you stepped inside, holding the door for Thor. He stopped a few feet away, and the moment the door was closed he turned to you with an almost feral look in his eye. You might have been frightened had he been someone else. Thor, however, made no move to touch you, came no closer. His voice warm with humor and promise, he asked gruffly, "Did you invite me in for only a glass of wine?"

You might not have made another mistake had he not been so fucking adorable. There was nothing of his brother's cunning or deceit about Thor. He had no guile, no artifice. He wanted you and was making it abundantly clear in a way that left it entirely up to you. He had asked in just such a way so you could say yes or no without fear or embarrassment. Maybe you could resist the sexy, but could you resist the sweet? Could anyone?

As you had now lost count of what mistake you were on today, you were less surprised this time when you heard yourself say, "No."

Part Four: Idolatry here

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