#yes this is about w*ncest

[maipareshaan]

Your faction in the stan wars depends on which character's hate can you least tolerate

[kindalikerackham]

I'm sorry, people who ship destiel are calling any other person alive a freak??

what 😭😭😭

like. my guy . plank in your own eye

[dotthings]

Since I just rewatched 4x14 "Sex and Violence" let me revisit a few things. I really really like this ep, it's darkly psychological and it's a great ep on Sam and Dean's relationship, as well as having bi Dean subtext.

The first victim murders his wife

The second victim murders his mother

The third victim, Dean, the siren tries to goad into killing his brother

So the siren manipulates some people into harming a romantic partner, or manipulates them into harming a family member, a platonic bond. The siren gets off on the violence, the power, of driving someone to that extreme.

Sam and Dean are on different paths this season. Dean misses his brother and he's lonely. They're drifting apart, mistrust is growing between the brothers. The siren takes a male form, FBI agent Nick, to entice Dean. To give him someone who is like-a-brother. But Nick isn't like Sam. Nick is a lot like Dean. He's excited about the Impala, he's knowledgeable on classic rock, he laughs at Dean's jokes. Nick is the siren purposefully honing in on the loneliness in Dean, but in so doing, creates someone who is sort of like a brother but isn't Dean's brother. They aren't brothers. What the siren is playing upon is Dean's wish for a companion who understands him, who he can connect with, and it doesn't have to be his brother.

"I gave him what he wanted and it wasn't some b*tch in a g-string, it was you" is the text. Textually, Nick is using Dean's loneliness due to his slowly growing estrangement from Sam, and giving him a substitute for that.

Nick, along with being a companion, is a potential romantic and sexual partner, which a brother wouldn't be. Those scenes with Nick and Dean in the car...for one thing the siren innately operates in a seductive way and that actor really seems to be leaning into that, and Dean is...Deaning the way he sometimes does with men he's not related to. The way they're looking at each other in the car scene. This is the subtext.

And it's so weird to me that people get attacked or mocked or have had hate threads made about them on twitter dot com just for analyzing all this (I've been trolled for it, other bi Dean fans could probably tell similar horror stories). Even recently, I know it's still been going on -- a few weeks back, some bitter Sam stan tried to claim that if you let in the subtext on bi Dean, that must mean that you are validating w*ncest and that's just not how this works.

In fact it can be both about the platonic sibling bond, and bi Dean subtext (with Dean/Nick as the unspoken potential). The episode is mainly, and most overtly, about the brothers and their strained bond and how the siren preys on that. And I have a lot of feelings about Sam and Dean in this episode. It hurts. It's poignant. That is a platonic bond on the series and one that I really love. At the same time, the bi Dean subtext, the dynamic he has with Nick, the actual seduction siren Nick is playing on Dean, can co-exist with the brothers and their sibling bond troubles. Sam is not a potential romantic or sexual partner for Dean. Nick is. And yes that can be a layer, it's called subtext, while it is ostensibly about Nick filling that loneliness in Dean because Sam and Dean are drifting apart.

We also need to put this in context of the season. This ep isn't about Dean and Cas, but it is in S4 and falls at a time when Dean is drawn to a male companion--an angel, who is not related to him. Who gets him in ways nobody else Dean knows does. An unexpected kindred spirit where Dean never expected to find that. Cas isn't like Nick, Cas is weird, and he doesn't know pop culture and he doesn't know music and he doesn't care about classic cars like Nick does. Nick is an illusion, a seduction, the siren creates The Perfect Person for Dean to get close to. Cas, otoh, is the real deal. He's authentic. The connection between them isn't a seduction, it's Cas being Cas, Dean being Dean, and Cas goes against his orders from Heaven due to his growing attachment to Dean. Cas is making Dean feel a whole lot less lonely in S4 where Dean and Sam are drifting apart and Sam is wading into dangerous waters and isn't listening to Dean. So Sex and Violence isn't about Destiel, but Sex and Violence, Dean and Nick, exist not only in the context of Sam and Dean's relationship, but what's forming between Dean and Cas as well (even if Sam and Dean are obviously most directly relevant as the context).

Scrubbing all that out, and trolling and mocking anyone for unpacking it and making their case for the bi Dean subtext is really weird and it's anti-art and it's anti-interpretation. There's nothing wrong with saying "huh, that's an interesting take, hadn't thought of that. Not sure I see it, but carry on *shrug*" and move on.

Instead, for years, there are stans who attacked subtext and attack analysis of subtext, who laugh at it and call people insane, and are still doing it recently.

This analysis of Sex and Violence is old news, but I hope my revisiting maybe adds something to the discussion of this ep. bi Dean discussion is still going on to this day about it and so is the trolling, and I refuse to be silenced on perfectly reasonable subtextual analysis because some people feel a need to throw immature tantrums. It's utterly unhinged, in a bad way, that some people have been so aggressive about actively trying to silence discussion of bi Dean in Sex and Violence.

[sky-is-the-limit]

I don’t know if I’m in the wrong with this or not (I love misha btw) but the things he’s saying about dean and cas .. I dunno it feels weird.. I’ve been a Destiel shipper for a long time but… damn I don’t know.. talking about a coworker’s character like that with your own I just.. man I don’t know like I understand what he’s doing like I get it but it feels strange… I feel awful saying this because I understand completely what he’s doing

And I understand that completely, Misha is not everyone's cup of tea and people have every right not to vibe with what he is saying all the time (which 99% he's wilding)

However he and Jensen know each other 15 years now? And they're really close irl, Danneel is also really close with Misha and they hang out outside of work as well and I'm certain that if Jensen was truly uncomfortable with what Misha is pulling 99% of the time, they'd definitely talk about it behind the scenes.

Like Jared used to joke about W*ncest/went on a homophobic rant about Cas and Jensen never said anything about it, I'm sure Misha joking about Destiel which is what he's been doing at cons with Jensen on stage as well, won't be such a big deal between them and if it is then I'm sure it will be discussed between those two.

Like you said, these are fictional characters and the majority of the fandom is literally asking for what Misha's been joking about, if Jackles is uncomfortable with such jokes, I'm sure he will discuss it with Misha since they are friends and not just coworkers.

Idk to me, it's all just humour, is it questionable? Most of the time yes which is why it's not for everyone, is it offensive/problematic to joke about two fictional men fucking? I honestly don't believe so and if it is they can talk about it.

P.s there's no "in the wrong/in the right" about everything, people can have different opinions on such things (not extreme situations obviously) and it's okay!!

[orionsangel86]

A bit of a moan under the cut...

It's funny to be in this position where I follow a ton of SPN blogs, and a ton of Good Omens blogs, and so I get a lot of interesting hot takes across my dash.

It's fine for people to be critical, but I do find criticism of GO from SPN fans kinda hilarious and hypocritical.

"the writing was like bad fanfiction"

You did actually watch Supernatural yes? Even season 4 had its terrible fanfiction moments *cue trauma memory of Sam Winchester explaining "w*ncest" to his brother and shudder*

"There was no plot at all and it was all pointless."

Hmmm... reminds me of seasons 12, 13, and 14 of SPN

"The relationship reveal at the end was so stupid and clearly a crack ship from tumblr"

Yeah I was also really surprised when Dean and Crowley hooked up in Season 10.

"Neil Gaiman was clearly bullied into making them canon by tumblr, he absolutely hated fans asking if Crowley and Aziraphale were gay and in love back before the first season came out"

And? Why is him changing his mind (if thats what happened) a bad thing? What exactly do you think was happening behind the scenes at Supernatural regarding Destiel?

"Even if Neil Gaiman DID change his mind and decide to make it romantic, its still disingenuous and he's lying to you about what he planned with Terry Pratchett"

Sure. He could be. Funny how sometimes at some point people may see the light regarding their characters and realise that the story works better if they are together - at least Neil Gaiman was able to follow through, unlike Bobo Berens and Andrew Dabb who had their vision shat on by the CW.

Maybe he is exaggerating about what exactly he and Terry plotted out. He's protective of Terry's memory but clearly also painfully aware of how rabid the fans are and has gone a bit overboard in reassuring them. How many lies have you been told by the creators of SPN? How many times have Jackles and Mollins lied to you? Queerbaited you? Mocked you? Have you ever heard of a little thing called growth?

If you are gonna be critical about GO and Neil Gaiman, by all means go ahead. But DO NOT then sit there in the same breath and say SPN was better, that SPN had your back, or sing SPNs praises in any way.

Both shows have good and bad moments. Both sets of creators have lied at times, and tried to do whats best for their fans at times. Both shows are filled to the fucking brim with fanservice - at least GO didn't mock and ridicule its fans by either portraying them all as sad loser men, obsessive stalkers, or teenage girls who are a bit too obsessed with the sappier moments to be taken seriously. The fandom inserts in GO were older, wiser, calmer, and rather badass lesbians actually. I thought that was pretty neat.

I'm not even a huge Neil Gaiman stan, find most of his asks cringe (and often wonder if he picks out the cringier ones specifically to toy with and mock the fandom) and def find some of his explanations surrounding the origins of the GO sequel contradictory and nonsensical. Whilst he is a great fantasy writer, he isn't the best at screenwriting imo. He is also rubbish at comedy and needs support on that always. It is very clear to me that he has absorbed some of the tumblr mentality in his later years, as this is apparant to me in both GO and the Sandman, and yet, as someone who rather loves the tumblr mentality, I'm all for it. I think he is maybe trying a bit TOO hard to appeal to the tumblr specific queer community which can be alienating for wider audiences (i say this as someone who considers herself very much part of the tumblr specific queer community), and I do sometimes wonder if there is something a little bit disengenuous on his side about that, because, well, how much can an older cishet white man ever really understand the overly millennial/Gen Z queer majority AFAB leaning tumblr space? I do think some people have really got to crawl out of Neil Gaiman's ass because he is not your God. He is just a guy.

But I also think a lot of the hate thrown his way is unnecessary. A lot of people's gripes about him seem to be complaints that he is too wrapped up in tumblr culture. Which is an ironic criticism to come from tumblr users. If you hated GOS2 that's totally fine. But if you hated it and then proudly proclaim that "Supernatural did it first" "Supernatural did it better" or just "Supernatural was the best and Good Omens will never be Supernatural". Please, for the love of God, shut the fuck up. Supernatural was heavily influenced BY Good Omens, and the Sandman. Supernatural was so braizen in its stealing ideas from GO and the Sandman that it even stole one of the main characters NAMES.

As a long time SPN fan, any SPN fans ever claiming Neil Gaiman stole ideas from SPN is a fucking embarassment to the rest of the SPN fandom. By all means criticise Gaiman's work to your hearts content, but at least criticise it correctly and leave the hypocrisy at the door.

[kiddarachnidd]

hiiiii!! quick switcherooney to this account because unfortunately for me, stranger things is still pretty popularly liked, but I want to switch to some into/across the spiderverse stuff, so… intro!

Hi, my name is Elliot, I also go by Elli.

My pronouns are he/him and I am a trans guy. I write fanfiction and stuff, think of this as my little corner of tumblr where I post my spiderman shit!

I will primarily write ‘x male reader’s, but people are more than welcome to request gender neutral/non-binary reader as well. let’s go over some comfort stuff for what I ask that people don’t request.

Yes!

trans man/non-binary reader

platonic/familial relationships (instead of ‘x reader’ it would be ‘& reader’, wouldn’t be tagged as such but it would say that.)

angst

headcanons

ships/character x character (within reason, if I don’t like it even if it falls within reason I won’t write it)

super-reader (reader w/ powers/spider-man reader)

No!!

NSFW (sfw fic requests only please <3)

Black reader/reader of color (I am white, so I wouldn’t be able to write well for these kinds of requests!! I also feel like it’d be taking spotlight from writers of color so I apologize </3)

Fem reader

Writing romantic stuff for canon lesbians/sapphics (im masc aligned, sorry </3)

proship/comship (including but not limited to: !ncest, agegap, etc.)

Yandere (shit makes me uncomfy)

Real people (sry shit just makes me uncomfy as fuck)

songfics (I personally just don’t like them. At all. I may make one where it’s like..a character singing but it will NOT be a songfic unless I’ve lost my mind and if that happens y’all just hit me over the head with a 2x4 and take me out of my misery)

I think that’s it BUT if you have any questions feel free to ask! I am more than willing to answer any questions about writing stuff for those interested <3

I more than likely will be posting some of my art on here as well if it has to do with spiderman or anything similar because I’m almost done w my spidersona <<3333 don’t judge im cringe like that okay. Okay.

That’s all for now!! Stay safe!!🕸️ *whachow*

[wastemanjohn]

does anyone irl know you ship w*ncest?

I can't tell if this is a WW ask or a wild anti lol, sorry if you're not, I'm just a bit confused by the censoring!

Anyway, I'll answer in good faith: yes, a handful of friends do, who are also fandom involved somehow and familiar with what it is. Only one friend knows about the daddycest (although she agreed with me about the plausibility!). Another friend also knows and has my ao3 but he's fandom blind, we're just very open with each other and he likes reading my smut lol. But yeah, it's not really something I'm super open about generally and there are people in my life I couldn't imagine ever telling!

[jinkieswouldyoulookatthis]

Tags from a post...

#i feel like we shouldve explored that sam and dean were soullmates more #bc what is the narrative trying to tell us about soullmates in this world #w*ncest shippers dni

First off, fucking just type wincest, what the ever loving fuck is up with the goddamn asterisk??? Are you that immature that you can't write out the actual word that is bothering you? This isn't a platform that censors like Twitter or Facebook or TikTok or whatever. People here use the actual words to blacklist and block things they don't want to see and if y'all don't use the actual word then those features do not fucking work.

Second, HOW ARE YOU GONNA HAVE A CONVERSATION ABOUT SAM AND DEAN BEING SOULMATES IF YOU EXCLUDE THE FOLKS WHO MOST ACKNOWLEDGE THEY ARE SOULMATES???

Third, this one is petty af but, it is spelled soulmates. One L, not two.

Finally, yes, I ship wincest, but I am completely capable of having a fucking conversation about them being soulmates without making it any weirder than the show does on its own. In canon, Sam and Dean are soulmates who happen to be brothers which makes the relationship platonic... that's a huge part of the weird beautiful tragedy that is Supernatural. Because it's this deep intense thing that is not romantic or sexual and that's awesome.

But, apparently, I'm not allowed to participate in the conversation because I understand the flexible, malleable nature of fiction and transformative works.

tldr: If you can't type the actual word then you shouldn't type the fucking word. Learn how to tag in a way that allows those of us that you don't want to interact with to block your posts.

[twobookshelvesfull]

I forgot about the part in sympathy for the devil where becky is straight up writing w*ncest porn?????? and narrating it????? like they actually put that in the show. the writers sat down and said "yes. this is good"

[artemis-pendragon]

The massive rush of serotonin I get from blocking people who leave annoying replies on my posts... unrivaled ❤️

[maipareshaan]

Also what's funny is that this person's whole basis is why do you ship W*ncest when you could ship anything else, and you don't bcz you are racist and misogynistic, which is funny bcz they can't use homophobia, its like why don't you want D*stiel endgame oh bcz homophobia, like its literally not about W*ncest, they are WEIRDOS about D*stiel, like they just have to shart out shit for being the victim over it.

Also none of this means anything for being okay with gayness. Even shipping D/stiel. And i am not saying gay fetish blah blah but well yes, and its okay to have just don't act like its activism blech.

[dotthings]

A "brothers in arms" dynamic does not preclude romance. Anyone who has read any books, watched any tv shows, or seen any movies ever in their lives should know this, and therefore the entire "brothers in arms" discourse used to shutdown romantic destiel is full on wrong.

Also...romance between two characters who have a brothers-in-arms deep love for each other is not incestuous.

And the word "platonic" needs to be confiscated from 90% of spn standom.

The fact that the discourse from spn standom is so warped that for years people got trapped into having to say "platonic siblings" due to the muck of bad takes put out there by the w*ncest lane (it's like saying "wet water"), while simultaneously having to wade through the muck of the gaslighting against the possibility of romantic feeling between two characters like Dean and Cas, fellow soldiers who became very very close. And some in the w*ncest lane ongoing insistence that in canon Sam and Dean are erotically suggestive and that w*ncest is canon and that the show creatives put w*ncest suggestivenes in on purpose just for the w*ncest shippers to enjoy. Yes the w*ncesties have claimed it's canon. Yes they have claimed there is purposeful "queer coding" on w*ncest. While they gaslight any intention whatsoever about destiel. And lie about what they themselves have said and claimed.

No, w*ncest is not representation, no w*ncest is not "queer," it's incestuous. I understand there are queer fans who ship w*ncest, and that's their right, no I do not condone harassing and hating on people for shipping a dark ship. But I'm also not going to condone pretending it's acceptable to equate an incest ship to a queer romance. You do not get to equate a headcanon incest ship to a queer ship that was deliberately queer coded, between "brothers in arms" fellow soldiers kindred spirits.

[tothestarsandbackmoved]

im going to say it: i really won't have any discourse on this blog because im sorry if you even are making good points im not on tumblr dot com for discussing the finer points of characters and stans and antis?

yeah it's okay and you're valid for having your reasons but please, please dont come at other people's throats for issues that are better off with a neutral middle ground instead of them being fundamentally right or wrong. it IS good to have discussions about this and continuing them is fine, but maybe consider that everyone might be slightly better off if they just. live and let live.

this is really important for things that are far more mainstream because you'll see radical ends of the spectrum arguing with each other because something that is consumed by so many people will inevitably have that many opinions. yes, things ARE problematic sometimes and you can call them out but have you considered that it isn't necessary for there to be moral microscope every single time?

while that is being said, it IS important to have conversations but again, small parts of a community that may be toxic do NOT represent the entire community. there are people who are fiercely loyal to their fandoms/ ships/ characters for their own reasons but so long as they aren't sending hate and denigrating their *opposition*, it should be fine. it is important to think critically but that shouldn't be the norm for someone seeking solace in their comfort fandoms or elsewhere? maybe reconsider the toxicity behind holding that mindset because it will harm an important part of pop culture?

[youlooklikeasixtiesqueen]

jesus christ

[sammywinchesterisalesbian]

my spn hot takes

Rewatching spn made me realize some things lol

john wasn't like... a bad parent??? he didn't do the best job he could, but he was also grieving and he'd just found out that the things that go bump in the night are real and yeah he fucked up sometimes but everyone does

dean was verbally and physically abusive to sam, jack, and cass

cass was not a hero and he was kind of a bad person. he broke sam's wall and drove him insane, he killed a bunch of people when he was "god," the leviathan arc of s7 was his fault, and he blamed sam for the apocalypse even though it was the angels who wanted it and he didn't care that dean broke the first seal even though both brothers unknowingly contributed to its start

dean was correct that they should have killed jack when he was born. he was an extremely powerful being with no knowledge of morals or control. he could have destroyed the whole world and killed countless people, as demonstrated in s14 and s15 when he was soulless. this doesn't mean that i don't love jack or that i agree with dean's treatment of him, just that dean's reasoning made sense.

it didn't make any sense that chuck became the villain. there was never any indication that chuck was malevolent or that he wanted sam and dean to suffer before the end of s14.

anyone who watched s15 and still shipped d*stiel or thought that the show was about anything other than the relationship between the brothers missed the whole point of the show. to add to that, the finale was their perfect ending. yes, it hurt to watch. knowing the permanence of dean's final death was painful, but the whole show was leading up to that. i will say that sam not going off the rails was a bit ooc considering all of dean's other deaths and i do think it would have made more sense for him to die young because he doesn't want to live without his brother. sam not looking for dean during the purgatory year made no sense.

sam was right to be angry after gadreel. dean took his bodily autonomy.

dean was never meant to have a romantic relationship with anyone. he never really understood the concept of loving someone other than sam. that isn't to say that he didn't care about other people because he did, but his whole schtick is "look out for sammy." love, for him, means sam. the two things are synonymous.

sam was fucking unhinged.

sam was always far more queercoded than dean, and people who use dean's misogyny and toxic masculinity as "proof" of dean's bisexuality are the ones who are homophobic, not the people who say that he isn't bi. sam, on the other hand, dated amy. amy was his first girlfriend, and he could never tell john or dean about her because she wasn't human. she could never tell her mom because sam was human. she literally shoved him into a closet when her mom got home. dean killed her because she wasn't human. sera gamble said herself that she intentionally queercoded sam. dean is canonically a homophobe ("dude can you be any gayer").

ship culture is toxic. i've stopped shipping in general and i prefer qpr ships instead.

d*stiel never made sense, and even if sam and dean weren't brothers, w*ncest wouldn't work. it would still be toxic af (as demonstrated by their whole relationship as brothers).

sam and dean were soulmates in the platonic sense. their whole world revolves around each other and their relationship and love for one another.

supernatural was about family, never romance.

the spn prequel makes no sense with canon.

[hawkland]

Greetings besties and beloveds! Next month, on May 18, I’ll be celebrating quite a personal milestone: my 50th birthday! (Yes, I am an old dinosaur. And yes, I share a birthday with Jack Kline, and I love that!)

I’ve spent over half my life active in media & music fandom and thought this would be a good excuse to hold a combination birthday/follower/content creator celebration, as I’ve also recently passed 700 followers for this ridiculous little blog. Getting into SPN after all these years has certainly been quite an experience, so now I want to do something to help share, promote and encourage more love from and within this wonderful community.

This event will run from May 18 - May 22. All forms of fannish creative content are welcome: art, fic, graphics, vids, poetry, rec lists on a theme…I’ll share it all! You do not have to follow me to participate. I’d just ask you to follow these rules:

Please @ me or use the tag #hawkland50th to make sure I see it so I can reblog it.

No w*ncest or underage content.

NSFW is okay if contained in an offsite link (ie, a Twitter link for art, an AO3 link for fic).

Content featuring (or even crossed over with) one of my other/past fandoms would be awesome, too! If we crossed paths first thanks to Law & Order SVU, Gorillaz, The Good Place, The A-Team, The Police or Foo Fighters fandom please feel free to participate as well and I’d love to see it!

Themes/prompts: 

I want to keep this fairly open-ended and up for interpretation/as you will. Those of you who follow me know my favorite SPN things are Cas, Destiel, dadstiel, and angelnatural. So really, anything celebrating those things would be awesome! I’m always especially tickled when someone is inspired by my own fannish works, so if you feel inspired to create a “remix” or companion piece to any of my own fic or artwork, I’d be completely over the moon. 

As someone who was a tremendous fan of Taylor Hawkins and given I’m still working through a lot of emotions from his recent passing, I’d also love to see some content inspired by his music and spirit. To that end I’ve put together a Spotify playlist of some of my favorite songs featuring Taylor, from both his solo projects and the Foo Fighters. If they may perhaps inspire an edit or serve as a fic prompt, that would be incredible. You can listen to the playlist here. 

I’ve also put a few color palettes I like as inspiration for art or graphics edits, which you can find below the cut. Use any of them for any day of this celebration!

I can’t wait to see what you come up with, and thank you for your friendships, encouragement and inspiration!

Color palettes (if you work in traditional media like I do, don’t worry about exact matches or anything, just use the general feels if any of them inspire you!)