#yes this is about the anon hate I'm getting from people who think I'm Jewish. sorry bud I'm from a different religious and ethnic group

[phoenixyfriend]

Like I've definitely been on the receiving end of various bigotry before, but it's always weird to experience the -ism aimed a group you don't even belong to.

[spottheantisemitism]

"what if the X-men were black?" is a racist, antisemitic and anti-intersectional screed that 2013 tumblr fell in love with

Published in 2013 this made rounds of OG tumblr and made Bobby of Pencilscratchins draw all her Jewish X-men characters as brown.

Erik because he has Romani heritage (which is realistic and based and accurate to some comics).

Anon go kick rocks with your colorism! YOU read holocaust testimonies!

Also fun fact Nazi Germany did not understand black and brown the way Americans do so it was based on ethnicity and not color, a brown Jew and a pale white passing Jew were seen as one and the same to the Nazis

Guess which article she linked

It's this one!

But said Kitty was Latine because "the quintessential X-girl of the 70s shouldn't be white"

Kitty already is a queer woman of color because she's Jewish. Jews are POC. Bobby what the hell? Are you implying she's only coded non-white because she's Jewish or Mutant? what the hell?!

(BTW Bobby left Tumblr around Covid but if you send her hate asks because of this essay you'll end up on spot-the-antisemitism blocklist for harrasment)

Where did she get this "Jews are white and should be race lifted?" stuff? Why from Orion!

Top paragraph is fine!

antisemitism is written the gentile way that supports a racist eugenicist, off to a bad start.

Sexism is not covered? OH explain Storm's arcs of misogynoir or Jean's and Maddy's arc of going insane because she has the power of a god but is forced to be housewife and marry her sweetheart and have kids

Ableism is not explored? I'm sorry what about XAVIER'S ENTIRE ARC OF ABLIEST SELF HATRED AND OVERCOMING IT IN THE PREQUELS? The first class all being rich talented codedly disabled kids going to a prep school for the gifted. Disabled people really liking non human passing characters like Nightcrawler (and hating Xavier since he's too assimilationist to many). I'm sorry why do people fall for such blatant lies? the mentor of the X-men is literally canonically disabled and Orion has the GALL to claim ableism is not explored.

_ Genosha is half fall of south Africa Apartheid and half the establishment of the state of Israel hence why the metaphor is so messy and problematic

_ Yes that number is deliberately "like the holocaust but worse" because Morrison likes their holocaust appopriation

_ Why didn't you mention it's an allegory for Gay conversion therapy torture because Bryan Singer is gay?

_ Yes Legacy Virus is Mutant Aids good job on your media literacy finally kicking in Orion

It's racism AND antisemitism but your "antisemtism doesn't exist in america" ass doesn't get that

I do hate "mutie" as slur and the way Kitty thinks it's comparable to antisemtic and anti-black slurs and USES them to make a point, so yeah something Orion and I agree on.

The sequence used is of Stevie Hunter the human ally character who like Xavier started teaching after she became disabled. She IS used as prop here to say Kitty is right in calling her the n-word (Claremont is racist sometimes).

But Orion can't tell her apart from Storm. Buddy if you can't tell the ONLY two black women in this comic apart, you're the racist.

OK they're both props but it proves you never actually read the comics or you can't tell fictional black women apart neither of which is a good look

(Cole also points out the Kitty and Magneto are not White but Jewish he is dogpiled and called a fake fan for this (see below))

Keep Shyminksy out of your mouth you racist fake fan

OH NO! I hate this!

So you decided to go with the colorist idea that the man is darker and the innocent girl in need of protecting is lighter. Gross colorism worthy of a Hollywood action movie where the black guy dies

"Local black man can't related to white disabled teens facing ableism and makes it about racism so he can relate to it" is giving gamergate chud energy to me

If you can't see why a Russian man is almost killed by a mob of xenophobic red blooded Americans and HAVE to make this about anti-black racism that's on you and your misunderstanding of the way Russians were hated during the cold war.

Oh you are race swapping x-men while shitting on Psylocke who the result of basically the same idea? How hypocritical

Dwayne McDuffe does have a point but your quote does not utilize his point in any way.

Then DON'T raceswap Wolverine if he becomes the angry black man. Think before you can X-men racism and tokenism WORSE with your race-swapping

NO THEY DON'T strawman rejected

Ah yes! Magneto, famously a very white man whose childhood was full of white privilege/ Sarcasm

One of the co-authors of the website has the gall to double down on calling Magneto white:

"as a REAL fan you're fake fan, antisemitism doesn't exist and Holocaust survivor Jews are white" - this racist defending his token black friend's racist screed because some guy called Cole DARED call Orion on his bullshit

*"I didn't like that the X-men were about white passing and invislbe disability so I made about anti black racism" also "judiasm is just a religion" canard

**Again leave Shyminksy and Morrison's good takes alone

***Yeah you get Luke Cage, that's how you get the racism of bad Luke Cage comics. You ain't inventing the racist wheel here

Orion I hate your take, I hate your misunderstanding of antisemitism and ableism that makes the two main factions tick, I hate your self centerness, I hate your racist and antisemitic co-writer making excuses for you and I REALLY hate that this did to the 2013 X-fandom what Lily Orchard did to the 2019 Steven Universe fandom and we can still see people using your bullshit arguments today

Oh and Cole? thank you for your service you're the real hero of this story, hated and feared for daring to call out the establishment

[jewish-vents]

post 10/7 jewish culture is straight up no longer believing your goyische friends actually like you and are in for the long haul. immediately after 10/7 I lost a few people who were disgusting assholes, but ever since then my goyische friends on this website have been slowly "un-friending" me (unfollowing, soft-blocking, and blocking). I'll have other goy friends who stuck around this long say nice things about me, compliment my fics, my blog, and even me, and I just... don't believe it. I know that's a common social anxiety fear, but I never struggled with social anxiety that badly. if you asked me if I thought my internet friends really liked me last september I would've said yes and meant it. but now, after months and months of my friends dropping like flies (and I almost NEVER lost mutuals before 10/7, not in almost 4 years on this website), I don't really believe them. I just can't. I'm waiting for them to realize they don't want to put up with my jewish ass anymore.

I've decided to stop talking about i/p because of this... I'll see posts on my dash (like from jewishlivesmatter) which I think are good and I wanna put on my blog, but I feel like every post about it pushes my goyische friends a little further away, a little closer to the block/unfollow button, so I'm just... not. I used to be scared to talk about i/p, from may 2021 when I learned just how antisemitic most goyim were because of the riots, to oct 7. but now I no longer fear getting doxx'd or getting swarmed with anon hate. I just know that talking about it is the number one way for Jews to lose friends.

"do you even want to be friends with these people?" yes. if I held goyim to the standard of i/p opinions I think everyone ought to have, I'd have no goyische friends. at this point as long as they agree that hamas is a terror org and a 2-state solution is best, I'm down to keep being friends, because even that is a godsend for people my age (20s).

it's even started to affect me in real life. the other day I had a talk with a goysiche friend of 15 years about i/p (knowing where they stood, obviously, by this point). we got into a mild argument, but they had stuff to do so we had to stop. I sent them an unrelated text an hour later, and when I got radio silence for the rest of the day (our argument was in the morning) a part of me genuinely believed that was it for us and braced for losing an irl friend who means so much to me and I thought was going to be in my life until one of us dies. they'd be in my wedding party. we've penciled in figuring out some honorific my future kids can use for them instead of aunt/uncle because they're nonbinary. I caved and texted them to make sure we're still friends, and they said yes, thank fucking gd, because otherwise I might've just had a full mental breakdown.

anyone else waiting for their remaining goyische friends to leave them?

.

[traegorn]

you never read the lilith question from the first edition of lilith magazine you twisted presumptuous fraud and antisemite

So I'm probably giving you more attention than you deserve, but I also hate leaving someone who keeps repeatedly shouting something at me that's so wrong uncorrected.

You brought this up back in September (yes, this has been going on for that long), and at the time I hadn't read it so I assumed it supported your argument. I gave you the benefit of the doubt and trusted that it said what you said.

But here's the thing, I've since read it.

And it doesn't support what you're saying at all.

(Putting the rest under a cut since this gets long...)

So going to the actual piece we have to remember what "Lilith Magazine" is. It's a Jewish Feminist magazine writing primarily for a Jewish audience. Cantor-Zuckoff is talking about how Jewish women may want to look at her story differently. I don't find anything in there arguing for Lilith to be some pan-feminist icon for non-Jewish people. In fact, in the article Cantor-Zuckoff says:

What we have to explore are the uniquely Jewish aspects of the Lilith story, and how they relate to the Jewish experience, to Jewish history. After all, Jews lived among many different peoples and were subject to a bombardment of cultural and religious concepts and myths from all sides. What they accepted is important because it shows us what Jews perceived as necessary and appropriate to Jewish life and its continuity. How they transmuted what they accepted is also significant for this reason. The account of Lilith’s revolt in the Alphabet is, to the best of my knowledge, intrinsically Jewish; no non-Jewish source tells of a female struggle for equality or gives it as a reason for the vengeful behavior of a female demon. This is especially important to us in exploring how the Lilith myth connects with our unique history.

The only comments about universality in the piece are when Cantor-Zuckoff says that there are stories with some similarities in other cultures just prior to those last two paragraphs:

These legends of Lilith-as-demon, the vengeful female witch, are, of course, not unique to Jewish culture and tradition. Many scholars theorize that vengeful female deities or demons, like the Greek hecatae, represent the vestiges of the dying Matriarchy or are an attempt by men to discredit the Matriarchy.

What Cantor-Zuckoff is arguing here is that there are myths in other cultures that have been influenced by patriarchy and serve some similar functions. This is not an argument for other people using Lilith, only that there are elements she shares. To claim they're the same though is bizarre, as you wouldn't claim that, say, Kinich Ahau and Helios are the same god just because they're both associated with the sun.

I think this really goes back to the fact that you've started with a conclusion and just reject anything that contradicts it. You really want it to be true. What I have said from the start is that Lilith is a figure who is unique to Jewish folklore. I backed this up with with the evidence we find in the historical record. I debunked the supposed "non-Jewish Lilith" sources.

And I said listen to Jewish people about what's okay or not okay to use from their culture, as they are a closed ethnoreligion, and not listening to them would make someone an asshole. You've been having a bizarre tantrum at me for like half a year now, and it's getting sad.

I don't know why you seem to care that I, a random person you will never meet, thinks you're being an asshole, but this has to stop.

(Context Note: For anyone who is seeing this post first in this ongoing "conversation" -- this anon has been harassing me for months because I dared say in my podcast that Lilith is a figure who comes exclusively from Jewish folklore, and that members of the Modern Witchcraft Movement should listen to Jewish people when they ask us not to appropriate her. That's right -- my saying "listen to Jewish people" is apparently an antisemitic act.)

[aterimber]

Hi!

I saw your posts in the tags about deleting all reblogs! I went thru your blog to see what was wrong and it looks like Zionists have been harassing you about antisemitism until you stop talking about Palestine.

In so sorry about that and don't fall for it!!

To clear down things up: nativenews isn't antisemitic. They're pro-Palestine and support a decolonized solution which Zionists HATE and that's why they're saying nativenews in antisemitic. Zionists are calling ANYONE who doesn't support Israel or a 2state solution an "unsafe" person for Jews which doesn't even make sense.

That'd be like if Americans said "you're anti-american and unsafe to my well being because you think native Americans deserve equal rights. Natives obviously just want rights to get revenge on us, how could you possibly suggest supporting them."

That doesn't even make sense and it's obviously just a racist excuse for Americans to keep their privileges over natives right?

Same exact situation is happening.

Jewish Zionists like to pretend Israel is a Jewish state but it isn't. There are Christians and Palestinians and Muslims who live in Israel too. It isn't specifically anti-Semitic to criticize a government, regardless of it's population.

People criticize the USA all the time and who are the only people that get mad about it? Patriots and racists who want to ignore their problems, right? And should we stop talking about those things cuz they're uncomfortable? Course not. They are the Reason we talk about it, right?

Zionists are the same. And the doubt they are planting in you about your voice is their goal. One less voice speaking up for Palestine helps theirs get louder.

Please don't delete your reblogs.

Nothing you've done has helped out Jewish lives in danger JUST because they are Jewish. And that's what antisemitism is.

Antisemitism is not when you have opinions Jewish zionists don't like or reblog from people that Jewish zionists don't like, I promise.

Hi Anon!

Thank-you for the message!

Also, thank-you very much for that explaination. What you said definitely makes sense to me. As I've said, I'm not very knowledgable about what has been happening and was only attempting to help, which it had been pointed out to me that was not what happened.

I'm attempting to learn so I can make informed decisions going forward and listen to the people who I was attempting to help.

To clear things up: I am against murder. Period. (Yes this includes animals, but that's not the point of this post)

If you are pro-murder, I do NOT agree with you. Unfollow me, block me, whatever.

This is why I felt sick when I was told the post I reblogged from NativeNews could possibly get people killed. That is why I went to the extreme lengths of taking down every other post I had reblogged mentioning Israel and Palenstine and wrote the apology post.

I was trying to spread information to stop people from dying, not contribute to it.

[maidservant-hecubus]

thanks for posting about the jewish side of this whole thing. at the first post of urs i saw i almost reached for the unfollow button thinking it was zionistic, but then i like. Took a moment and realized propaganda had me almost ready to unfollow a jewish person bc they called out antisemitism. reading more of ur posts has definitely helped me think harder abt everything im consuming rn, and i want 2 thank u 4 that. Ik ur probably getting nasty messages so heres one from a goy(goyim? Idk the conjugation) who isnt perfect but is learning 2 listen thanks 2 u

This ask is from November 16th and I've clearly sat on it for a long time. I've had a lot of complex feelings over it. Grateful, yes, especially in the earlier days. Which I think is why I didn't let my self answer right away. I'm glad anon had a second thought before unfollowing me. The bar is in hell there, but I'm still glad. I'm glad they understood my goals have been to fight antisemitism by calling it out where i see it. I'm glad they seem wiling to listen and learn. But i also worry. I worry because of that knee-jerk view of pro-jews and jewish safety content as "zionistic" is there and their ask only tells me that they realized that **I** was doing better, not that their wariness of "zionistic" content was wrong. And i've felt very nit-picky feeling this way, especially when they are thanking me for helping them to think harder about things. I deeply appreciate that and i hope if they're still following me they now have an even better understanding of how nuanced my feelings on this have to be. I have to be nit-picky because this is my life and the life of my loved ones and my people on the line. And also I realize now i am some form of zionist, but i'm not going to define or quantify that because the people who know what i'm talking about understand the nuance and multitudes and complexity and hope that word can hold (and if you've been following me you should by now too), and the people that would block me for it or put me on a list or send me hate would never have engaged me in good faith to begin with. So anon, if you're still following me, I sincerely thank you and hope you've continued to learn and unpack your feeling over this all. I'm grateful for the message that November 2023 you sent because it does give me hope, and i hope that past version of you can be proud of the you that's reading this reply. And above all I hope that anyone else reaching for the block button takes a moment to think and realize they are not immune to propaganda and cultural antisemitism.

[blooming-violets]

Sorry this is gonna be a bit of a rant since it’s something I’ve had strong feelings about since joining the AG/TASM fanfic part of the internet, and you’ve provided me a great opportunity to talk about it.

As a trans person, I am BEGGING fanfic writers to stop writing Marauders stuff. I’ve seen so many people defend it with “separate art from the artist” but like it or not they are still supporting JKR. Separating art from the artist only really works when the artist can’t profit from it. She has done SO MUCH harm to trans people and particularly trans youth in the UK and it’s so fucking disheartening and gives me such an ick when I see TASM writers also write for Marauders because it truly comes across as “I love and support the trans community except when it comes to this because I like it.”.

Even if you ignore the transphobia and holocaust denial (YES IM SERIOUS, she’s denied parts of the holocaust at LEAST twice and she literally did it a second time the other day), the original writing is so fucking problematic. Things just off the top of my head being;

The goblins being stereotypes of Jewish people

The fucking racism with characters like Cho Chang and Kingsley Shacklebolt

The last Fantastic Beasts movie’s plot literally being trying to make WW2 and the holocaust happen

This point needs to be taken with a grain of salt since this was some bullshit Joanne said after the books came out, but werewolves in the universe being meant to represent people with aids. Which is so fucking awful considering one of the two werewolves was attacked by the other as a CHILD

The most ironic part of this is that if Andrew is truly the person he presents himself as, he would probably fucking despise being associated with HP, even if it is just a fancast. But yeah all this to say fuck JKR, fuck Marauders fans but also thank you so much Katie for that last anon answer because I genuinely don’t see that enough in this corner of the internet.

Even Daniel Radcliffe, Harry Potter himself, has spoken out against her and continues to loudly support the LGBTQ+ communities. When your own beloved Harry doesn't even want to stand by your side, you should know you fucked up. Sadly, she does not, and instead leans harder into her bigotry and hatred.

I've always been someone who is very loud and opinionated when I see things that I disagree with, which I know can rub some people the wrong way, but fuck it. I don't like to whisper about my issues on the sidelines, I like to confront the problem head on by being very clear about where I stand and how I feel. I'm not gonna sit around and let someone align me with JKR just because I'm writing a stupid werewolf and Peter Parker fic that exactly 5 people are reading lol. It's not even a popular fic like get out of my asks jfc. Esp when I can tell this person has not read a single sentence of my story and is completely basing their judgements on my header image of AG's face next to a wolf gif.

In this past week I have seen both a Steven Harrington werewolf au and a Daredevil werewolf au cross my dash. Do we think they're getting called out for supporting HP?? No. Because their actors weren't "fan casted" as something years ago. Fan casts don't even mean anything! There was never a movie about them. AG was never casted or played this role. It's literally nothing but a bunch of fans agreeing that they like his look for a fictional character.

Anyway, I'm also ranting back at you haha. You can rant to me anytime. I love a good rant and I agree with you 100%.

Werewolves were not created by JKR. Andrew Garfield has nothing to do with Harry Potter. Don't make make snap judgments about a person's character based on a picture you saw. Support your trans community. Don't be dick.

And, if they actually read my werewolf au, they would see that it's literally about learning to overcome your own hatred and biases of people different from you and learning to love those you were taught to hate. Crazy concept, I know! 🙄😉

[batboyblog]

hi, i'm the anon who told the story of finding out im jewish only recently when an aunt came to visit and told us of how her mother (my grandma's sister) and her siblings came from poland fleeing the nazis because they were jewish. thank you so much for your reply. i kind of cried. learning about this was an Experience for me. It seems my grandma and her siblings didn't exactly want to hide being jewish, but didn't tell anyone. they didn't assimilate into christianity and didn't raise their children as religious. we didn't celebrate any christian holidays, observe any customs, but also didn't practice any jewish ones (obviously). since learning about it, my aunts and mother talked to my grandmother and asked for her story. she fled when she was about 10 around 1940 in an unlabeled merchant ship with a few other family's, only they didn't come with their parents. they dropped all their practices and grandma only broke their pretense to observe shiva when their brother passed away, and now for her sister. my grandma is a very old woman and no one wanted to upset her further, i mean she's already lost both her siblings and her only family from before her marriage, so the whole thing's been dropped by now. our aunt says their older brother actually became a practicing Jew once he moved to the big city and had a few photos of them as kids in Poland that he gave to his oldest son that she can show us, but apart from that there's no connection. It's strange, I've never been antisemitic but it feels kind of prejudiced of me to have mixed feelings on this. It feels like we got all the bad parts of generational trauma and missing stories and none of the good parts like community and a feeling of belonging. Though that does also mean we were never the victims of hate, so for that we should be grateful. It hit my mom much harder though. She's named after my grandma's sister (which is apparently a Jewish custom, to name your children after past family members? all of us are named this way. i didnt know this). I feel reluctant identifying as Jewish, I don't even know if by Jewish law I would be classified as such. Anyways.

i know this is a bit heavy, so don't feel preassured at all into replying. I just wanted to say this whole thing took place since early december of last year and your reply has kind of caught me vulnerable. thank you for your kind words. sincerely

first off thanks for writing back, it was very interesting and people so rarely ever follow up with anything these days.

One I'd like to say I'm touched by how your grandmother and her siblings stayed close over the years and you are connected to their families still. I can imagine 3 little kids from Poland in a ship with only each other, the horrible heart breaking choice their parents had to make to save them. So so many Jewish parents couldn't bare to part with their children... your great-grandparents made the hardest choice imaginable, your grandma was an incredibly brave little girl and it worked, it worked

I certainly understand feeling conflicted about it all, I can only imagine getting news that realigns your view of the world, yourself, your family, world history, and who you are. You wouldn't be human if that didn't leave you with a lot of mixed feelings and I can't tell you what to do with it.

Yes it is Jewish tradition to name children after dead loved ones, my nephew is named for my grandfather who passed a week after he was born. I'm not a Rabbi, or an expert in Jewish law, but by my understanding your mother is almost certainly Jewish since your grandmother is and you likely are as well. I've been assuming you live in America but that might not be the case, here Reform Judaism is the largest movement and tends to be pretty open about "who is a Jew" else where the Orthodox movement is most often the majority and they tend to be more strict but again I strongly think you both would be Jews.

Any ways I keep thinking of one of my favorite monologues, from Angels in America

"You can never make that crossing that she made, for such Great Voyages in this world do not anymore exist. But every day of your lives the miles that voyage between that place and this one you cross. Every day. You understand me? In you that journey is."

whatever you do with this, it is with you, every day that crossing in a boat is a little girl from Poland, that journey that she made is in your soul.

I can't tell you what to do with that, and I think it goes against the grain of my religion to tell you what to do with that. I will say there are times when the candles are lit and I look into them and I say the words I can see eternity, being chosen is not easy the path is hard, and I'm ALWAYS learning more and I will till the day I die, but I wouldn't trade it.

I guess what I'm trying to say in a super disorganized and emotional way is, a door has opened in your life, whatever you do you'll never see your grandmother the same way again, and you'll carry that story with you always. The question is do you want to know more? I think it's clear I hope you do and one day your kitchen might fill with the smells of baking challah the way your great-grandparents in Poland might have done before the war. But I can't make that choice for you and I feel bad even saying what I think.

What I said before stands you and are a miracle, and whats more a testament to love undying, so many children sent away by parents who loved them enough to save them, little pieces of ash in the wind blowing away from fires of Armageddon, really little seeds blowing out of a forest fire to grow a tree in a new world and look at all its branches. I hope whatever happened to your great-grandparents the idea of their children having a future was a comfort in the darkest moments. May their memory be a blessing.

[ikosburneraccount]

I’m the anon from earlier, thanks for correcting your mistake. I understand you didn’t realize what happened but the fact that you owned up to it means a lot because most blogs would’ve blocked me out of cowardice. It’s nice to see someone else standing up against the racism in this fandom especially from big blogs like IS (who really butchers asian culture in her writing, btw, idk why we’re letting yt people write fanfic in this fandom.) i’ve been in fandom spaces for 10 years now and as far as racism goes TLC is by far the worst considering most people still don’t even accept that the MC is asian. I’ve hated TS for years for her casual racism and the white supremacy themes/narrative implicit in her music and the fact that this fandom idolizes her is disappointing, but not surprising. No, Cinder would not listen to a deeply bigoted woman who openly and unapologetically condones violence against black women and hates jewish people. TS is more like Levana than any other tlc character. Anyways thank you again for taking me srsly and correcting your mistake.

OFC ANON!!!! Your ask was so informative and held me accountable (and let me know that some Swiftie blogs could still engage with my posts without my knowledge/consent). I will definitely be moving forward differently because of your ask, thank you so so so much <3

I don't block anons but I do delete anon hate from Swifties. And I KNOW the Tumblr culture that you're talking about, I've also been here for a while (10 years now). But I want to subvert that culture with my blog and with how I respond to my asks. I would rather take the time to respond and explain than be reactive, because 1) being reactive doesn't reflect well on me and the point I'm trying to make and 2) Engaging with anons with a thoughtful response makes them feel respected and validated regardless if we agree or not. I never want people to feel stupid, ignorant, or dumb by my responses, and that is never my intention as well.

Thank you for acknowledging and feeling the same way about the fandom racism. I do feel a bit isolated and lonely sometimes knowing a majority of the fandom are TS fans, but I remember that I would rather get 0 interactions on a post then engage with racists. And anons like you only validate my point that I'm not the only person who feels this way, I'm just the most vocal. I'm genuinely happy you feel seen and heard and feel this blog is a safe space to talk about fandom racism, because I do want people to ultimately feel safe as TLC fans of color to come and talk to me about how they feel. Despite being a small fandom, we still need safe spaces like this as we, tlc fans of color, can feel/have felt alienated by the overwhelming white presence of this fandom.

(And I think it speaks for itself when, after I blocked all swifties following my page, a majority of people who still follow me are other people of color.)

Talking about TS means talking about racism and people seem to elide the fact that I am hurt by their continued support for TS. Like that's the main point of racism, you're engaging in a power dynamic that reinforces the marginalize and violence towards marginalized and exploited communities. People don't understand that being born as and existing as a person of color is a political statement that we cannot evade but actively informs and filters our lives. And when people engage with open racists like TS, it reinforces the marginalization of people of color.

TLC racism is on a different level, but then again, this is the same fandom that where cresswell, a relationship between a 16 and 20 y/o is its second biggest ship :/ Like clearly people don't care about anyone they hurt as long as they can ship their faves. And yes, the race wars when it comes to Cinder racial/ethnic background are INSANE. It really has to do with the fact that a majority of white women see Y/A heroines as their self insert so Cinder not being white disrupts this assumptions and it's the same reason Cress is so popular. I was active in the TLC fandom back in 2014-16 and there was so much discourse about Cresswell (p*d* ship discourse) and about Cinder's race/ethnicity. I 100% agree with you that TLC fandom is one of the WORST fandoms in YA because of their extreme racism towards the Cinder and other main characters (the way I tear up when I see Black!Annabeth fan art being celebrated...why can't people here act correctly sometimes 😭).

I thought IS is Asian(Chinese)-Australian? Please correct me if I'm wrong though, I was just under this impression from how they responded to asks on their blog. If they're actually not Asian/Chinese-Australian I'm actually even more disgusted with their fanfiction now. But it also explains a lot.

"I’ve hated TS for years for her casual racism and the white supremacy themes/narrative implicit in her music and the fact that this fandom idolizes her is disappointing, but not surprising."

Anon you have NO idea how much I want to be your friend right now. YOU PUT HOW I FEEL PERFECTLY INTO WORDS. This is the EXACT issue I have with TS and why she attracts such racist, bigoted fans while still appealing to her liberal fanbase. She encodes her music with white supremacist messaging and simultaneously posits herself as liberal by perverting feminist ideology to deflect accountability for the harm she's caused. She is the PERFECT white woman because she straddles the apolitical white line to maximize her (white) fanbase. She's an evil person but a commercial and marketing genius, and because white supremacy reinforces the paradigm that wealth equates to good moral character, TS is consistently defended as a good person when she literally isn't. At all.

So that's why my original response to your ask was really weird because I couldn't tell if you were pro/anti-TS but still answered anyways just in case, you know? I'm glad to know that you aren't pro-TS and there are other people recognize the racist and white supremacist undertones of her music.

"No, Cinder would not listen to a deeply bigoted woman who openly and unapologetically condones violence against black women and hates jewish people."

If TS existed in the third era she would be bigoted towards cyborgs and lunars, point blank period. People thinking the TLC main characters would be swifties or love TS is 100% a projection of their whiteness (or delusional, or both) and basic misunderstanding of how PoC face and deal with overwhelmingly popular racist white artists. Also, I have so many thoughts on calling the Lunar people "the Lunar race" in both canon and fandom. That's definitely MM's whiteness not fully understanding how race is constructed and her white vision of a post-racial futuristic society. I could speak about that for hours (but that isn't the purpose of this post).

Also you aren't being dramatic with the TS Levana comparison. That's spot on: she literally manipulates people with her victim narrative despite being 33 years old and is able to make people forget the harm she causes with the amount of content she produces. TS since her debut has never taken direct accountability for her racist actions (like the antisemitic 2009 MTV photo where she poses with a guy wearing a swatstika t-shirt and her PR team justified the photo as her "not knowing." She was FIFTEEN).

I can literally write a completely separate post linking every single article by topic of all the racist and suspicious actions she's done and taken both as an artist and person, but this is a TLC blog and I want to focus on TLC content first. This isn't a dig towards you, nanny; this is just me saying I cannot be 100% responsible for educating people on TS racism, because it is a lot of emotional and time-intensive labor.

I hope this post makes sense. This was super heavy and took me a couple hours to write because you brought up so many brilliant points and I wanted to breakdown a proper response. Seriously, this has been my favorite ask so far. Anon, you are now my friend!

[thedreadvampy]

Btw, at times like this when the Israeli's are getting particularly bloodthirsty, their state sponsered trolls roll out. That last anon you had, whilst not definitely one fits their general 'gist' of how they operate. It's an established thing Israel does whenever the world temporarily stops ignoring their genocidal savagery for a whie. They tend to target anyone who they think has a lot of reach or makes a good target. It's why every statement they made was so fucking dumb. In short; don't let it get to you, it was probably someone who copy-pasted that message to 100 other people across different social media. And expect more over the coming weeks..

Ok. So I'm personally generally p sceptical of the specific phrase "state-sponsored trolls" bc in my experience the nature of ingrained reactionary propaganda is that you generally don't need to be state-sponsored and the insistence that states (be it Israel, the US, China, whoever) must be Paying People To Disagree With You seems to me to be a pathway to conspiratorial thinking whatever direction is going in. Maybe it's sometimes true but it doesn't need to be true.

People can hold shitty fucking genocidal opinions which make no sense in the face of facts all by themselves without being paid to do so. This is particularly true for people who benefit from normalising colonial occupation and genocide, whether that's Israeli settlers or British nationalists or American christofascists. Israel doesn't need to be, and I say this phrase deliberately, ~controlling the media~ for people to make the most balls to the wall unhinged defences of genocide, because it's in many people's individual interest to do that regardless. Because they. You know. Think Sometimes Genocide Is Useful.

so like yes whenever you make any statement in support of Palestinian rights or lives, or criticising the actions of Israel, people will instantly come out of the woodwork to say you're a Nazi who hates Jewish people bc you want all Israelis to die or some shit. It's deeply wearing and not very convincing because they have yet to point out what people's criticisms of Israeli genocide of Palestinians are actually. You know. wrong about. they'll say 'it's bad when Israelis are killed!' as if that's in any way an argument against the statement 'it's bad when Palestinians are killed/oppressed'. these messages are constant, stock, and kneejerk, and exist to create too much noise for a meaningful conversation.

but no I don't agree with you on this message. partly bc of the above mentioned conspiratorial thinking (sometimes people just Are Wrong). partly bc you immediately in sentence 1 conflate the Israeli people with the Israeli state and that's some bullshit. Israel is a seller state and yes Israelis are responsible for their decisions when they knowingly steal from Palestinians at IDF gunpoint. but Israel is a whole country where people live their lives. Israelis are not a monolith nor are they individually responsible for the actions of their government, only for their own actions.

rule of thumb imo if you're engaging in any kind of good faith you gotta be really specific in acknowledging that Israelis =/= the state of Israel =/= Jews and Palestinians =/= Hamas/PA/PLO/any other faction =/= Muslims. We're talking about people here and people are not states.

[jackie-of-all-spades]

Oh my god you sound like a pompous ass with a fixation on Jews. Piss off.

Alright a nice and timely bit of hate, from I'm guessing either Spacelazarwolf or Slyandthefamilybook, but who knows and it doesn't really matter.

Here is a breakdown of everything that just happened. I came across a post denouncing antisemitism by someone I follow. A good message save for the fact that it was essentially worded

"If your not Jewish agree that antisemitism is bad as if this conversation took place in a bubble, or you suck"

I then agreed that yes, antisemitism is bad, but refused to pretend any speech occurs in a bubble free of the context of the world around us and the events that transpire in it, soooooo, while yes antisemitism is bad maybe we should also have a discussion about how a particular state in the middle east is attempting to turn the multiple Jewish denominations, and multiple Jewish ethnic identies as well as that state into a Monolith so that criticizing any constituent part of that list constitutes criticizing the entirety.

(I'll admit my initial response was a little more wise ass in tone than it probably needed to be, I don't responde well to posts telling me to "say what I want you to only then shut up")

The response I then received for wanting to also talk about the Israeli state trying to turn the diaspora into something like the monolith that neo-nazis and antisemites paint them as when they say "the jews", and how that is probably a bad thing likely to result in more of the antisemitism that they were asking people to condem as that far right government carries out terrible actions; was, "shut up forever" before i was blocked or it was deleted. Not exactly sure which since I can't look at spacelazarwolfs blog who I'm guessing blocked me, though I think that response was from sly. Regardless the response was essentially

No, I don't want to, shut the fuck up and never talk to me again

So, not exactly the response I'd expect from someone who was genuinely just trying to promote awareness of the growing problem of antisemitism.

As for your charge there anon about me having a fixation on jews. I don't, i do have a fixation on history though the thing I care about is the dual rises in both Identitarianism, and the violence that historically follows a push of that mindset. Whether that's white guys attacking and assaulting people with Hispanic names or dark skin in my country, the use of Russian Nationalism and pride for defeating the nazi's being used by putin to try and claim land and eradicate an ethnic minority, or ethno-religious nationalism from the Israeli state widening the definition of antisemitism to use it as cover to do the very same thing to its neighboring ethnic groups that the states founders wanted a state to be protected from ever experiencing again.

Conversations don't happen in a bubble... those that try to force a conversation to occur in a bubble have an agenda, and I've found, It's usually one that historically you should be wary of because they are trying to hide something.

And with that. May those pushing antisemitism get punched in the face as all Nazi's and antisemites should, and may Palestine be free and it's people find justice.

[gentil-minou]

(Same anon who talked about having a Jewish friend)

Actually, I've already seen a bunch of the video explanations and looked things up before sending the last ask in, and yeah, I'm pretty convinced the Palestinians got a raw deal. It looks like the British came in, took over Palestine, then decided to kill two birds with one stone and try to move all the Jews out of their country and into the area they were trying to establish as Israel, while intimidating or outright forcing Palestinians into leaving their own homes in order to make room.

And then after repelling the attack from all the surrounding countries trying to get rid of Israel (which yeah, that uh. That would also have led to a massive tragedy), Israel took over a bunch of territory beyond what they'd been assigned (without any Palestinian input whatsoever), and claimed it as spoils of war or something. And it's occupied areas even beyond that, and regularly bombed Gaza like. A Lot.

Honestly, my biggest source of difficulty is that, well. I DO know people who are Jewish and have family in Israel, and are pro-Israel and arguing all the usual Israeli talking points, and are scared right now. And I can't really say that they shouldn't be afraid for themselves and their friends and family either, even though from what I've seen with my research, Palestinians seem to have been dealt a rawer hand. I'm not sure what to say to them, except generally adopting one of the more neutral stances that focuses on the horrors this conflict has inflicted on everyone involved, like what Rick Riordan said in a recent blog post.

I am also quite aware that when anyone, myself included, tries to speak about this issue, the reader is waiting to pounce, thinking, “Yes, but whose side are you on?” That is exactly the wrong question. If there are two sides to this issue, those sides are not Palestinian/Israeli or Muslim/Jewish. The two sides are humanitarian and dehumanizing. Dehumanizing has a long evil history. It is appealing and easy to buy into, because humans are tribal animals. We are hardwired to think in terms of ‘us’ versus ‘them.’  We are the real humans, the good guys, the ones with God on our side. Those other people are evil monsters who don’t deserve empathy. Hate mongers have thrived on dehumanizing for as long as there have been humans. It provides them with a purpose, a way to rally support, power, and scapegoats. It is  easy to point to atrocities committed by our enemies, while justifying or minimizing the atrocities committed by ourselves or our allies.

Humanitarianism is a much harder sell. It requires us to empathize, to see other groups of people as equally deserving of dignity and quality of life. It requires not always putting ourselves and our needs first. But in the long run, humanitarianism is our only hope. If violence could end violence, if we could put an end to “those other people” once and for all, human history would read very differently than it does.

So yes, I am appalled by the Hamas attacks on Israeli civilians. I am appalled by the suffering of Palestinian civilians in Gaza. Both things can be true. Both things must be true. My thoughts are with all the people who have died, who have lost loved ones, who have had their worlds and their lives shattered, especially the children. More death and violence will not break this cycle, which has been going on for generations. There is no military solution. Even since I first wrote the post, only twenty-four hours ago, the Israeli government’s brutal retaliation against the entire population of Gaza has reached genocidal proportions. This is not only an atrocity. It is folly. Answering misery with misery only creates more fertile ground for extremism, dehumanizing the “other side,” letting hate mongers thrive, stay in power, and reduce us all to our most monstrous impulses. The only real solution is treating each other like equally worthy human beings, and negotiating a peace that allows all parties a chance to live in security and dignity, with hopes for a future that does not include bombs and rockets and gunfire. This means security and support for Israel, yes. It also means a secure Palestine which is allowed to get the international aid and recognition it needs to build a viable state.

Do I think that will happen? Unfortunately, no. Humans are simply too selfish, too ready to blame “the other” for all their problems, too ready to dehumanize, though I also believe, perhaps paradoxically, that most people just want to live their lives in peace and have a chance for their children to have a brighter future. The problem is when we don’t allow other people to have those same hopes and dreams — when it becomes a false choice of us versus them.

What can I do? I will continue to write books that I hope will give young readers some joy. I will resist the urge to demonize entire groups of people. I will call for less violence, not more violence. And when asked whose side I am on, I will tell you I am on the side of humanitarianism.

I'm not sure whether you have a better stance to take when it comes to talking to friends who have close ties to the Israeli side of this conflict, who are afraid for themselves and their family. Because I can't say they're wrong to be afraid and upset, but also there needs to be recognition of what Palestinians have gone through as well. I'm not sure whether you have Jewish friends who support Israel who you've talked about this with, but if you do, how do you handle that?

To be frank, I wish I had the answers for your question but I don't right now. The majority of people in my life are either Pro-Palestine or refuse to talk about the situation saying it's too stressful, which is its own frustration and which I push back on by still talking about it.

The people in my life that are Pro-Israel are at work, which is difficult considering the ethics in this situation are all over the place. How do I support an Israeli client calling for the genocide of an entire race? How do I, as their therapist, validate something that I find so morally repugnant I feel sick to my stomach before every session. How do I deal with working at an organization devoted to helping kids with their mental health when right now one of the most traumatic incidences the world has ever seen is happening right this second?

My workplace has apparently chosen silence and not talking about any of this as its strategy, and I don't know how to navigate it. Do I leave my job and the kids I work with to uphold my morals? Do I stay to help the kids I wanted to support even though they support something I fine reprehensible? Do I ignore it like my workplace does and stay for the kids I can help, where I comparmentalize everything thats been happening so I can help them even though their problems are so small? Do I stay even though every second of silence and refusal to recognize the very real genocide happening right now kills me every single day? I haven't worked it out yet. I don't know how to balance psychology ethics with my own ethics, and I think that's it's own issue.

So I don't have the answers here. I'm much better talking about these things online than I am in person. I have a better reach online than I do in person, which is why I do it so much here. If I had to confront a Pro-Israeli family/friend I know myself and I know I would cry and get angry and I don't know what I would do after that.

So for that, I'd say you're doing better than I am Anon.

Something I have considered though is where do I draw the line for what makes someone a friend or person I want to keep in my life.

And to me, a South Asian woman with an Arabic name from a Muslim family who grew up under the shadow of Post-9/11 Islamophobia in NYC and has devoted her life to working with kids who have trauma, depression, and anxiety, I think I am justified in taking it personally and with great offence if someone is saying the genocide of people I relate to heavily is okay. I think I as a person as a human being can draw the line when I need to.

And I think what gets me is I will talk about it. I refuse to stop.

[aidansplaguewind]

Is Aiden bisexual? No hate or problems with that I’m a lesbian myself but just curious I’ve seen him in a few gay roles and he seems slightly fem so just wondering

While he has never said "I'm straight", I'm pretty sure he's just straight.

He's played many gay characters. I was waiting for him to be harassed for playing gay characters while being straight and while he hasn't been harassed yet that I know of, he has recently been asked about what he thinks about being a straight man playing gay characters.

This was his answer one of the times:

"It just depends – if there are people from a certain bracket of society who never get to play themselves then that is an issue. Then you had the debate about whether Hellen Mirren, a non-Jewish person, should have played the former Israeli prime minister, Golda Meir. If you got into all of that, actors would be quite limited in what they can do – and you shouldn’t be limited by your religious background or your ethnicity or your sexual preference.”

If he were bisexual, I'd think he'd stand up for himself and say, "I'm not a straight actor playing a queer character."

Several people over the years have wondered if Aidan was bisexual because he's played so many gay characters, but I'm 100% positive, in my own opinion, that he's straight.

And here's why:

He's never been linked to a man romantically. He's never said he's interested in men. (But he is an open ally to the LGBTQIA+ community. His trans son is a part of that community.) Also, if you watch his kiss scenes with women vs. men, it's beyond obvious to me that his kisses with men are very mechanical. Nowhere near as sensual as when he kisses women. To be honest, anon, his kisses with men are awful lol If I had to judge his kissing ability based solely on his kisses with men, I would think he was a shitty kisser. I really would. A lot of people think his scenes in Queer As Folk are hot, but they're so not. And it's not because he's kissing and having sex with men, it's because he looks really fucking bad at it. Maybe the people who think it looks good don't have much sexual experience? I dunno but it looks like shit.

Also, any time he's ever mentioned boyhood crushes, or being a horny teenager, he only talks about pining after women.

Because of his roles, and because yes, he is a bit effeminate, many people have asked the same question.

I'm pretty sure he's just an old, straight white man. But a pretty damn cool one.

[thethirdromana]

So does Trilby have a Supernaturally Menace in it or just... jews

I gave up at 100 pages in and then read the plot summary on Wikipedia, so I can't be completely sure, but there's no sign of a supernatural menace that I came across. The antagonist, Svengali, has hypnotic powers, but there's not much suggestion that he's anything other than a normal man who happens to be very good at hypnosis.

Yes, this is where we get the term "Svengali" from. And "in the altogether". And the reason we call a trilby a trilby is because Trilby wore one in the stage adaptation. This awful book was distressingly influential.

Going to drop the rest of this under a cut for discussion of anti-Semitism and other racism.

I've been trying to figure out why Trilby bothered me so much more than... well, more than pretty much every other Victorian novel stuffed with Victorian prejudices that I've ever read. I don't often give up on books.

I think the absence of the supernatural is part of it. In Dracula and the Beetle, you have an evil foreign menace who's out to do unspeakable things to our good British women, and I'm in no way defending that storyline, but in both cases the monster is legitimately monstrous. Vampires that eat people and giant beetles with mind control powers are genuinely scary. It would be possible to tell these stories without the racism and xenophobia; though the roots go deep, racism isn't inherent to what makes the story function.

Whereas in Trilby, the entire story is that Svengali is evil and does evil things because he is Jewish. There is no version of Svengali where you can subtract his Jewishness and still end up with a coherent character - or not one who would then play the role that Svengali plays in Trilby. As you put it, anon, the menace is Jews. And that's profoundly unpleasant to read in a way that's different from the monsters in Dracula and the Beetle, at least as I experience it.

There is another aspect of the novel that I find repugnant, and have been struggling to figure out how to put into words, so please forgive me if I mess it up.

So, we have a cultural idea that hatred and prejudice come from dehumanisation. It's the Terry Pratchett quote: "sin... is when you treat people like things." And the antidote is generally held to be humanising people. When Shylock asks "If you prick us, do we not bleed?" it's generally understood to be an appeal to a common humanity: if you realise that I'm a human being like you, you will put aside your prejudice.

What I find particularly disturbing about Trilby is how much it humanises Svengali. I know this doesn't seem like it should be a bad thing, which is why I've been struggling to figure out how to put this. I've drafted and deleted two or three posts about it.

He is humanised in such a way that when I read how Svengali is first introduced in the novel, I thought perhaps the criticisms that it's anti-Semitic might be overblown. Which is why I was relatively lighthearted in my first few posts about it.

Yes, Svengali is described as having stereotypically Jewish looks, but he's also an exceptionally talented musician, and in the opening scene, he and the protagonists have a lively party together. They share drinks, they share stories. He's not a Fagin-esque character, who is a cardboard cut-out labelled "evil Jew". Du Maurier fills in Svengali's character more than just about anyone else's; certainly more than the bland group of artists mooning over Trilby. He has depth, he has passions, he has humanity. He is a rounded and plausible person. He has, if you want, a soul.

And then du Maurier makes it clear that Svengali is evil, and the reader should hate him, because he is Jewish.

It feels profoundly hateful in a way that I still can't quite articulate. Most prejudice encourages us to see people as non-people. They don't have feelings, they are lesser, they don't count. By contrast, Trilby encourages us to see Svengali as a full person first and then to hate him anyway. The anti-Semitism in Trilby is the hatred of a neighbour. Du Maurier wants us to look deep into Svengali's eyes, and hate him all the same.

I don't think I've ever read a novel that wants this kind of hatred from me before, and I hope never to again.

[our-blood-is-our-ink]

Not you wanting to headcanon Eve as Jewish when Kathryn Hahn has literally been called out by an actual Jewish actress in Hollywood for donning Jewface by taking Jewish character roles as a goy when actual Jewish women are rarely ever cast for Jewish characters. OOF!

I know I said I'm just blocking but I'm pissed off now.

First of all what the hell is jewface. What the fuck is that anon. Please tell me. I'm so curious as to what that is. Because you taking the concept of blackface and just swapping the terminology out for "Jew" is disgusting. You're just trying to say antisemitism in a way that doesn't make you sound stupid as fuck.

And secondly, an unfriendly reminder: Kathryn married Ethan Sandler. Who is Jewish. Her kids are Jewish. For all we know she's been invited to practice the religion alongside her immediate family.

I am. Continuously boggled by people who forget about this.

Kathryn has played the Jewish roles she accepted with respect and has done her research, and done it well.

You want to talk about an actress accepting a Jewish role? Let's talk Lizzie. Let's talk about how she DEFINITELY has enough influence at this point to push marvel into at least letting her wear a fucking star of David necklace. Let's talk about that.

I know precisely what you are referring to, and it's from the Joan Rivers movie that never got greenlit. Which had nothing to do with Kathryn and everything to do with Joan's kids not wanting a movie on her.

I will say that yes, Kathryn absolutely should have turned down those roles. However if they were offered to her, it would have just went on to the next non-Jewish actress.

And I'd rather the person who married someone Jewish, who's kids are Jewish, who does her fucking research into the whole culture and religion, to play a Jewish character than someone who is none of those things, who does none of those things.

That's my personal opinion. Not all Jewish folk are going to agree. That's okay.

But you, who have openly said are not Jewish, do not get to fucking speak on issues you have no place to be speaking about.

Remember?

Did you not think I wouldn't be careful to keep a record of all the hate you've been sending my way?

Shut the fuck up.

I have a lot of thoughts on this, but really, that's all a side note.

The main point is this: I'm allowed to headcanon Eve as Jewish. That has nothing to do with Kathryn. And how dare you suggest that I am not allowed to headcanon characters as Jewish if they're played by non-jews. How dare you.

Get the fuck off my blog. Get off. You're fucking delusional attempting to make me appear antisemitic. Fuck you. Fuck. You.

Get off of my fucking blog you fucking asshat

[hyperfixation-hideout]

this is embarassing but i want u to know so sorry im anon im just a coward. Im one of the people who said insults about critics and now i think about it ur right, i wasnt address the real problems just hating the group for existing. i went looking after ur post and i see the harasment on both sides now and i thought how dumb itd be to say the fndm is evil bc of some toxic fans and thats what i was doing with rwde. Ill argue the points now on, instead of accuse people of what i assume about them

You're not a coward; this ask proves it. Thank you for telling me, I'm so glad my words reached you. It's big of you to admit, bigger to recognize it as something worth rethinking, and even bigger to seek knowledge and open yourself to a potential change of view. Thank you for that.

I wanna reiterate some things in case I was unclear, because this is a nuanced topic, so please (pretty please) bear with me before passing judgment <3

First, I'm not advocating for ignoring toxicity found in rwde and r/rwbycritics. It DOES exist and it IS a problem. But people tagging me (& others who were supportive/considerate of my pov) in their hate anons to "prove" all critics are evil missed the points I made. Like I've said, I used to think ill of rwby critics as well, and all it takes to solidify a belief is examples that support it. It infuriates me that people would send asks like that, and I'm so sorry to everyone who gets hate. That's not okay.

What I am saying is the existence of hateful people who use a tag doesn't disprove the existence of non-hateful people who use said tag, nor does it make the tag's existence inherently hateful. ("RWDE" was a jokey name made for a place to critique RWBY without being called rude, so people could blacklist the tag.) I could broadcast every hateful person/take I see in the fndm or r/rwby, but it wouldn't prove everyone in the FNDM is like that. It's basic scientific theory.

It's important to be conscious of the toxic behavior in the FNDM as well, but I wasn't trying to say some wishy-washy "there's bad on both sides so it cancels out uwu" or "don't complain about one group's problems if your group has some too" or imply either group is worse than another. Not at all my intention.

Like you said, a lot of the stuff I see in antirwde or in replies to rwde posts isn't about debating opinions on the show, or discussing points they've made to express why they disagree; it's mainly:

A) Unrelated assumptions about the poster's character/beliefs/credibility (i.e. calling someone a n*zi for having an Ironwood profile picture, telling Jewish people who express discomfort with Coco's allusion that they're faking being Jewish just to bash/accuse CRWBY -- ironic to throw around the word n*zi and then tell Jewish fans they're faking discomfort with a character based on a literal n*zi -- telling queer people who wish Bumbleby had been implemented differently that they're "obviously cishet" and shouldn't complain about representation, telling Black people they're secretly white supremacists for saying the way the White Fang was portrayed was harmful, telling disabled people that pointing out ableist messages/rhetoric is ableist, etc., etc., I've seen it all.)

B) Generalizations of the tag and critique as a whole (saying all rwde posters and critics vehemently hate the show, harass CRWBY, are conservatives, homophobes, Trump supporters, fascist bootlickers, etc.) Yes, I've actually seen this. Many times. From people who directly told me they understood it's not all, immediately turning around to post the opposite in the tag.

C) People who are called out for harassment deflecting with "but look at THIS harassment done to ME, that proves I've never sent hate or death threats or doxxed anyone" instead of addressing or reconsidering the hurtful things they've markedly done or said in the past, even when provided with receipts. (I've seen this from both rwde and anti-rwde users, and no I will not name names)

D) People telling critics to shut up and stop watching, not considering that many critics do like the show and that's why they like talking about it, or why certain aspects disappointed them, or why they enjoy coming up with ideas for ways it could've gone they'd have liked to see! People say "we welcome criticism if it's respectful!" and on paper that's great! But in practice I've seen many (not all) of those same people jump to conclusions and insult/mock very respectfully-worded critique. It makes it hard to say anything without being assumed to be part of the htdm.

Even little things like "I wish Ruby's reaction to Yang falling had gotten more focus" get inflammatory comments/asks like "Why do you have to shit on Bumbleby? Actually, don't answer that. I know why. You're a sexist fucking lesbophobe and you probably stan Adam, go die abuse apologist" (that one was mine, despite saying IN THE POST that I liked Blake's reaction and ship Bumbleby)

And when it is addressing a particular qualm someone expressed, it's very, very often just people jumping to impose their headcanons to explain it away and enforcing them as canon, defending CRWBY as though it were an assault (again, not referring to the people who ARE harassing CRWBY, this is about those seeking genuine discussion), and calling OP names/telling them to kill themselves if they "can't see how obvious it is that ___."

To critics, fans, and all who overlap (and tbh just people in general):

If there's a pattern of shittiness in a group, by all means call it out as a prevalent issue! Or vent about your experiences! Try to avoid generalization words like "all" and "every" because they leave little room for change or understanding, and communicate a lack of desire to listen/cooperate, which keeps us from being able to tackle the issue. If there's a point someone makes you'd like to dispute, do so respectfully and engage in open conversation! Even if it's an opinion! It's fun to say "I actually liked ___ because ___" or "interesting, I interpreted it as ___" and spark a conversation. Try to avoid words like "obviously," the intent to prove an opinion "objectively correct," or insulting the person's intelligence (i.e. calling fans braindead/ignorant/simps, calling critics oblivious/bad-faith/bigots), because it shuts down discussion before it can begin.

I've just realized this has gotten really long and tangential, so I'll leave it at that. I don't have a perfect conclusion or an easy summary. It's a complicated topic. To anyone still here, thank you for reading this. I can only hope it doesn't come off too preachy, but I'm bad at conveying tone, so just know I mean it constructively and optimistically <3

[PS: to the person who sent me an anon saying my statement that not all critics have all the same opinions or beliefs is "just like saying 'not all men'" -- I want you to think about that for a minute. Actually, make that an hour. I want an essay on my desk tomorrow explaining why those are not at all the same thing.]