#yeahhh the song analysis is definitely happening

[missobsessedwithaleheather]

they're literally The Archer & mirrorball duo

[bisluthq]

I'm not convinced they were still hooking up into 2012, but they definitely were not over it. I also think 2015 is like the last conceivable time they could've gotten back together (for obvious reasons like Calvin then Joe and shit but also I think that was when they legit both started to properly move on).

Also, not to get into English analysis territory, but I've seen people (well, person) say they hooked up for the last time April 2013 because of Clean and like... idk I think shit like that sort of plays into the whole taking things a little too literally thing. I can 100% buy that their are elements of Jake in Clean (and in 1989 in general tbh. All You Had To Do Was Stay could literally be on Red lmao. But based on when it was written it is almost definitely a Harry song) just as much as Harry, because (and this is how I feel about literally the entirety of Red) the song's she wrote from like John to Harry (and even in some ways Joe J a bit) all bleed together thematically.

She was consistently repeating this pattern of behaviour of entering into (by her account) "intense, semi-toxic" relationships with people that weren't good for her (Joe J doesn't really fit that bill. I'm more referring to like the hurt/confusion/unkept promises of commitment) and therefore there are patterns in how those relationships operated.

John & Jake were both quite emotionally taxing on her end and like... confusing (albeit for different reasons - John seemed to enjoy having control over her, Jake was legit into her but was like a fucking mess and ultimately not right for her) but also she clearly cared A LOT for both of them (The John stuff was moreso based in a fantasy, whereas the Jake stuff was more "real." She seemed to (even for a short time) maintain that care for them post break-up (the story of us being the last song written for Speak Now and her talking about "pining" for the person she wrote it about. Literally like all of Red).

Jake & Harry shared that on again off again thing that she didn't have with John (thank god🙏 he has a track record of that kind of dynamic so thank fuck she wrote Dear John otherwise I legit think it would've ended up like that. The back and forth pre-dating was bad enough). Obviously, the circumstances were different. I think she played into things more with Harry (I don't really get the vibe she was having full-on hookups with other dude's circa Jake besides like maybe Will cause it went on a while (+ I think by that point they were "done"). With Harry, we know she was, and was actively rubbing his face in it.) and like had more power over him (cause he was a bebe).

But like the Jake thing was also MUCH deeper, despite (imo) the Harry thing going on for longer (I think she and Jake met like late September early October 2010, started going out/hooked up almost immediately, broke up December, were on/off through to March/April & then pined over eachother. Whereas I think Haylor 1.0 happened from like March-April 2012 and probably involved them hooking up. Then they were "official" from October-January, then broke up, then kept hooking up til around April '13 - because I DO think there's an at least slightly auto-biographical element to that lyric).

ANYWAY, all this to say, those repeating patterns are why EYE think shit like IKYWT could very well be multi-muse, why elements of all of these dude’s seem to bleed into one another's songs, and also that I think the girl is messy and that's okay and like situations are complicated and generally on-and-off things don't really have clear cut endings.

ALSO ala Clean, I interpret it as her being clean from toxicity in relationships (or so she thought😭). "I'm free of these messy, toxic situationships that leave me feeling insane. Oh, hello there Matthew����."

yeahhh. This is pretty solid analysis of the whole thing.

[jiminieloved]

So I looked at your masterlist but didn't find anything. have you ever answered an ask about Jimin distancing himself from Kook in 2015? If you haven't,can you please share ALL ALL ALL of your thoughts? I LOOOVE! reading your posts and insights.

Okay so I’m guessing by Jimin distancing himself, you’re referring to the common trope in Jikook shipping analysis videos that Jimin threw himself at Jungkook and then pulled back and then Jungkook opened up in return? Yeahhh I kinda think that whole narrative is BS. So let’s go through the chronology of 2015 using my Jikook Timeline to help, and I’ll give you my thoughts on their relationship in this time period. 

January 2015 was much of the same, in my view. They were posting lots of selcas together, Jimin was spending lots of his pastime riling him up in Bangtan bombs, being his goofy self, Jimin mentions that on their break he and Jungkook traveled to Busan together. I think Jungkook’s increasing fondness was growing more and more evident in this period. You could frequently catching him smiling fondly at Jimin in interviews, or even occasionally checking him out. They were also still spending a lot of time practicing dance together in their free time, as they had been doing throughout 2014. Of course, they were still very immature, and that reflected in their sometimes awkward interactions with each other, but such is life.

February of 2015 once again showed evidence of Jungkook warming up toward Jimin in a fond, loving way. He was still his teasing self, but in interviews or video messages, he started to show a specific look just for Jimin.

March 2015 is where things started to get very interesting. This is when Jungkook posted the famed song recommendation for “Memo” by Years & Years. I’ve spoken about it numerous times, but all you really need to know is in the lyrics...

In March, I noticed they took a looooot of pictures together. I mean, they did anyway, but it was more than usual to me at a quick glance. Something that could mean nothing but could also mean something. 

In April 2015, we got some behind the scenes content where we noticed that Jimin was wearing Jungkook’s jacket. Jimin continued making lots of Jungkook-centric tweets. He seemed to be so supportive of Jungkook’s career moves and artistry. Jimin also named Jungkook as the group’s visual during an interview. April ended off with a video of Jimin giving Jungkook brotherly advice while sitting in his lap and stroking his hair....

May 2015: You know that one famous interview where Jimin tells the interviewer that he finds Jungkook adorable, and then Tae calls him gay, and Jimin doesn’t deny it? Yeah. May 2015 is when this clip originated. Not too much later, in a separate TV appearance JK singled out JM as the member who helped him relieve stress.

Throughout May they held lots of fansigns, and each one Jikook had a few cute moments. 

Distance who?

June 2015 is when both members seem to have a period of great happiness! Jimin even tweeted that he was so happy these days. 

Coincidentally, this is the first time they would wear matching outfits. They wore them to the airport on June 4. For FESTA, Jungkook wrote Jimin’s specialty as being #1 in looks. Maybe he was making up for the past, maybe he was teasing. I thought it was cute either way. In late June, Jungkook tweeted a video of Jimin sleeping. What a brat X) We also got this gem.

July 2015, Jimin returned the favor and filmed Jungkook sleeping. July also feataured Jungkook feeding Jimin ice cream by hand, and a very memorable video of Jimin obsessing over Jungkook’s red hair for 5 minutes straight, to Hobi’s annoyance. When asked during a press conference how Jimin feels about Jungkook ranking him last in looks rankings, Jimin replied “It’s nothing now.” Jikook once again wore matching outfits to the airport this month. 

Throughout July they had multiple cute Twitter moments.

August 2015, the craziest Jikook month in my opinion, started off with Jungkook calling Jimin handsome in a Vlive, and Jimin responding shyly. ISAC came and went with some cute jikook moments.

And thennnn, Jimin fainted on stage. Just days after this, some extremely meaningful onstage interactions occured between the pair. Jimin’s face in this picture says it all. 

A few intensely suspicious Twitter interactions later, this concert moment happened. 

September 2015: This is the month of Jimin begging for kisses, lol. Jimin begging Jungkook for a kiss and Jimin uploading 6 (six) videos of Jungkook on his birthday. Let’s not forget this photo....

October 2015 is the month when Jungkook discovered Troye Sivan, and tweeted accordingly. He also recommended the song “Beautiful Dancer” by IU, and requested that viewers listen from 1:23.... Jimin tweeted the results of a puzzle that he worked on with Jungkook. 

November had several BTS Run moments that proved that Jikook were still just as close. This picture definitely doesn’t scream “Jimin is keeping his distance” to me, lol.

Season’s Greetings 2016 was released and well.... there was a lot going on there. Though they were posting less photos together, the videos from this period did nothing but reaffirm their closeness. 

December 2015, Jikook blessed us once again with some selcas. 

December had lots of concerts, fansigns, variety shows and more. 

Distance who?

I could go into a lot more detail but the proof is in the content. This “distancing” narrative that Jikookers love to spout is just completely not a thing. 2015 was chock full of Jikook, and Jimin was doing nothing to hold that back.

[paradife-loft]

Close reading all the Jin Guangyao scenes: episode 10

Episode 11 | Episode 22 | Episode 23

So, when I was talking to @fatalism-and-villainy​ the other day, I mentioned how while doing this third watch of The Untamed, I was feeling really quite tempted to make a semi-liveblogging project out of doing a close analysis of basically every episode where Meng Yao/Jin Guangyao has a substantial scene.... Their response was only to encourage me in this further obsessive descent, and well, here we are.

I’m starting with episode 10 where we are in this watch right now, rather than going back to episode 4, because while ep4 is utterly delightful, I don’t really feel like I have a lot to say about it that hasn’t already been hashed to death.

Meanwhile, episode 10... oh boy! So much going on here. This episode is most interesting to me because the main theme we see in a majority of Meng Yao’s scenes, is how wholeheartedly invested he is in advancing the cause and prominence of the Nie Sect that he serves. Particularly in light of how we see him later giving the same loyalty and effort to the Jin sect, it’s a really cool (and tragic, tbh) precursor that shows a lot about how much he’ll make a point of doing well by those who’ve elevated him in turn.

So he first shows up with Nie Huisang, when WWX/LWJ/JC are all discussing with Song Lan and Xiao Xingchen what they ought to do with Xue Yang. Noticing the latter two (who are established already as being well-known heroes throughout the cultivation world), he asks if they wouldn’t come along to Qinghe to figure out how best to punish Xue Yang, and also what the best course of action would be for dealing with the Wen sect. Xiao Xingchen and Song Lan rebuff this offer... because they understand, accurately, that what Meng Yao is suggesting/asking about is for them to establish a relationship tying them, however informally (for now), to the Qinghe Nie sect.

(^This, incidentally, is the face he makes when they say “yeahhh, but no thanks,” or specifically, “We give less value to blood heritage and more to like-mindedness. We don’t want to depend on any cultivation family.” This is the face of “oh, okay, tell me no in such direct terms, when I went to the trouble of phrasing my suggestion a bit more obliquely, thanks so much,” and also, “Wow, doesn’t that sound nice to be able to do :/”)

Then a few minutes later, we get this wonderful facial expression! ...which I don’t actually have a whole lot to say about, except that I take it for... curiosity, mostly, about someone who’s had such an outsize effect on the local area, what with murdering a handful of minor cultivation clans? Interest in what inter-clan strategic advantages could be gained in one way or another with Xue Yang as a bargaining chip, source of information, etc.? Possibly also interest in the sense of, this is also someone who came from nothing and has been able to get a lot of important people to pay attention to him (even if not for a good reason), depending on how much he’s heard about Xue Yang as a person? There’s a lot of possibilities this is opening up, and I think he’s basically curious to see what happens.

Again, we just have him being very good at working the angles to get an advantage to the Nie sect (compared to the Wen sect in this case). Jiang Cheng even comments on him being thorough and formidable! (And Huisang mentions that Nie Mingjue really admires him; and Wei Wuxian says it looks like Jin Guangshan doesn’t know how to recognise talent... anyway.)

Mmmm, yep, douchebags gonna douchebag.... Nothing terribly interesting here that hasn’t already been noted a zillion times, since the basic fundamentals of his character relate to how poorly others treat him for his birth. (It is noteworthy though, I think, how the condensed timeline & events for Meng Yao killing his superior and ruining his relationship with Nie Mingjue in the process compared to the extended version in the novel, alters the first bit of screen time we get here seeing what Nie Mingjue is actually like as a leader. In the novel, his men in the army have a bit of a nasty gossip problem, but the person who mistreats Meng Yao and takes credit for his ideas later is a part of the Jin clan; in the drama, various Nie sect disciples have a gossip problem that he berates them for, but even so he still is, at best, ignorant of how his men’s mistreatment of the person he promoted and thinks highly of has continued.)

Oh boy, here’s where it starts to get fun! This is Meng Yao’s face as Wen Chao has just threatened to do “housecleaning” of the Nie sect if they don’t hand over Xue Yang, and it’s looking as though Nie Mingjue won’t be able to contain the conflict in a single one-on-one duel with Wen Zhuliu. It’s curious - he has a smirky face looking over toward Huisang when NMJ initially throws Baxia out in front of Wen Chao, like he’s thinking clearly the offered duel would go their way. Was he expecting the duel to be between NMJ and Wen Chao, who he’d clearly clean the floor with, and Wen Zhuliu stepping up instead took him off-guard? - Because that’s when he looks down thinking very quickly for a couple moments, and then tells Huisang he’s going to go check on Xue Yang.

As @veliseraptor​ and @ameliarating​ and I hashed out as this scene continued: what makes the most sense here is that, seeing how things might be going downhill for the Nie sect very quickly if something isn’t done to get the Wen sect off their backs, Meng Yao makes the snap calculation that the best course of action to keep them from getting massacred would be to free Xue Yang to hand him over. He doesn’t really look happy as he heads away from the entrance here; he looks like someone making the unpleasant decision to let a known murderer avoid justice because it will be better for his immediate concern of preserving the sect and clan he serves. Mingjue is uncompromising, but Meng Yao will look for the most advantageous option he can see and go for it, even if it’s a bit shady and perhaps not what his sect leader would prefer. Nie Mingjue respects him and listens to him well when he explains, after all, so with so much at stake, taking this gamble is probably worth the risk.

Aaaand, then we get to the part where he quite deservedly stabs the army commander who’s been treating him like shit for the past while! It’s not terribly clear (especially at this point) the exact chain of events that occurred before NMJ showed up, but from the number of other bodies in the back of the scene, I do think it’s quite plausible that Xue Yang actually did kill most of the dead Nie disciples there, as that would be... a lot of people for someone with a weak cultivation base to off very quickly. And the commander himself - I take that as a highly relished stroke of opportunism, honestly. Meng Yao picks up a Wen sword to use to kill him because he is good at quick thinking to avoid self-incrimination, but I don’t think he’d been intending on multiple homicides when he initially went back to grab Xue Yang before Wen Chao ordered his men to attack everyone and all hell broke loose.

Oh, ow! NMJ is getting ready to attack him, as Meng Yao frantically tries to talk him down - and Meng Yao still instinctively jumps in front of a sword for his sect leader! Like, truly, honestly, I do believe he had great regard for and loyalty to Nie Mingjue at the very least up through the end of this episode. Whether or not this particular sword thrust could have been fatal to either of them, it still says quite a lot about how he values Chifeng-zun’s person more than his own, even as he’s quite possibly gearing up to kill Meng Yao for what he’s done. That is just... a real intense instinctive sense of obligation and value differential between the two of them that he has, here. Ouch, ouch.

When they resume in the throne room, I think there’s a lot that’s already been said and/or is obviously central, with the line about “fame for merit” and how much it matters to him being the big one. (Why should being recognised for your merit matter so much??? says the one who essentially always has been - lining up one of the central conflicts that continues between the two of them until the ends of their lives.) But I do think it’s pretty fun and telling how seamlessly (performance-wise) Meng Yao slips in the definite lie about the army commander freeing Xue Yang, amongst all the other (pretty certainly true) reasons to condemn him, and then claims it’s all true. I think it definitely speaks of... familiarity with being in a position where others won’t take your own actual reasons for doing something as a good enough justification, and so you develop an intuition of how to mix in motives that also target and appeal to the person you’re talking to as well, to avoid harsh punishment.

Also... hmmmm..... >>>

Hey look, I’m just saying there’s some interesting thematic comparisons going on in this show regarding moral worth and who a person considers to have enough ethical standing and goodness in them to judge them for their actions and have them accept it, okay?

Jin Guangyao and Wei Wuxian are amazing narrative foils and I am probably never going to get tired of saying it.

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Bonus round!

(When you’ve just been stabbed but you’re still really worried about the attack on the Cloud Recesses that Wen Chao has just revealed, because of what it means could be happening to one incredibly wonderful person! Better go make sure he’s okay, right?? ~*~ XiYao feels intensify ~*~)