#yeah i love the billford ship and dynamic

[clarisimart]

Poor little six-fingered Icarus

Flew too close to His Sun

Fell far away from home

And got himself burned for his hubris trouble

Stills from my "No Children" Ford Pines animatic which you can find here

Commission info here

REBLOGS OVER LIKES PLEASE

[busket]

gravity falls rant, cw sexual assault and harassment

seeing the gf fandom do a full 180 on billford is so odd to see and kind of infuriating because I had so many nasty rumors and lies spread about me in 2015-2018 because I liked them as bitter exes. a callout google doc was made and I never read it, but I know it framed me as a creep and an abuser. all because I thought a cartoon nerd and a triangle had a fascinating dynamic that was dark and compelling

in 2017 or 2018 someone sent like 70 messages to my curiouscat just repeating RAPIST RAPIST RAPIST RAPIST over and over again. I'd never even had sex at that point, and I had just cut my dad out of my life for actually being a pedophile and a rapist. so that was traumatizing! that really hurt me!

I also know it was because I had a NSFW account where i drew porn (i was an adult, i was clear i only wanted adults following me. and I still do draw nsfw, I'm not ashamed of that now but these folks made me ashamed of it for years) that included some porn of trans men, like Stanley or Stanford as trans men (NEVER together bc I've always been staunchly against incest or pedophilia ships) and these people framed me as a transphobe and a transmasc fetishist

well obviously I'm a trans man now and I didn't know it at the time but those drawings were a way to explore my own relationship with gender. I even look like Stan and Ford now, obviously i latched on to them as trans men because I wanted to BE them. but I believed it when people called me a piece of shit, I assumed all trans people would despise me too and I'd committed a horrible sin and it forced me back in the closet for another 5 years.

the people doing this were teenagers at the time, a few I thought were my friends/mutuals, and they made that part of my life kinda miserable. I was already miserable with other shit going on in my life. I ignored most of the harassment to make myself uninteresting and to avoid the possibility of becoming a lolcow but it involved anonymous messages both on tumblr and curiouscat, I even got a few emails just mocking me. even in 2019 when some people were like "oh yeah she's moved on to moomin, this is what her art looks like now, I can't look at it without thinking about how much she loves rape :/" which was NEVER true!!! I liked Ford and Bill as bitter exes but it was always consensual in my mind.

Anyway I don't ever expect or even want an apology. I'm sure they don't realize what an effect that harassment had on me during literally the darkest years of my life. to them they were just teasing a weird girl on the internet for fun, or very seriously warning their friends against whom they'd been lied to about being an abuser, but I was a closeted trans man trying to finish college, my home life was abysmal and abusive, I hated myself, i hated my body, my only friends were online, and when I'd log on for some escapism I was met with another message like "hey, you should block this person. they're saying some really cruel things about you on their account. I know it's not true but it looks like some people are believing it."

gravity falls was so important to me as a show since oregon is my home and it felt so authentic to my own childhood being interested in cryptids and going camping and visiting shit like the Oregon vortex as a child. but the fandom was the worst I've ever been in. it ruined my enjoyment of media online for years. so idk. I guess I feel somewhat vindicated but it would also be nice to get those years back and not be harassed and bullied online about something so stupid and unimportant

[ckret2]

youve gotten a few asks about billford before, and your plans for ford's relationship with bill in your fic, but im curious if you personally ship it yourself/*like* it. and, just for the hell of it, if you have any opinion on billdip too, since that one's even more controversial.

I'm gonna put most of this under a cut since it's not only long, but also long about two different topics, but the tl;dr is:

Yeah, I'm a fan of billford. I don't think it's canon, inevitable, or necessary to their dynamic, and I'm still on the fence about whether things will tilt toward the romantic in my fic or if it'll stay platonic, but I do enjoy the ship a lot because it has a lot of (obsessive, weird, unhealthy, angsty) elements that interest me to explore in ships. Billdip, on the other hand, does nothing for me. I don't care about how people ship imaginary characters in their fictional fandoms and I'm not gonna block anybody for liking it, so this isn't a moral stance, here—I just don't like it personally.

One of the things that intrigues me most about a ship is the idea of love that's gone so far it isn't even love anymore but punched out the other side into unhealthy obsession, and "I'll spend the next thirty years of my life hunting you to death" versus "What if I turn you into a gold statue and carry you around to stare at you a lot" sure fit right into "unhealthy obsession." On top of that, some of my favorite ship dynamics are:

the worshiper and the person they've picked to revere as their god, either metaphorically or literally—with bonus points if the person they've devoted themself to doesn't deserve that worship and maybe isn't even all that special, and the worship actually reveals more about the mind of the lover than it does about the (un)divine nature of the beloved

the mad scientist and the muse who gives them ideas and inspires their work (one of my all-time OTPs has a line where the mad scientist says to his ex "we were each the muse to the other"), with bonus points if they both get so caught up in "what can we do together? What dreams can we make reality—" that they plunge into full "so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should" territory—and bonus bonus points if they eventually come out of the haze of SCIENCE and one of them is horrified by what they've done... but maybe the other one isn't.

two people who are wildly compatible with each other (similar hobbies, tastes, worldviews! they fill in the gaps in each other's personalities! they each happen to be the other's type! they understand each other like no one else can! whatever, fill in the blank!), but for some reason one betrayed the other, they've tried to kill each other, and now things are vicious and bloody and painful and raw between them; but if they talk to each other and accidentally let their guards down for even a split second, all that history is still there, they still like the same stupid movies and share the same stupid inside jokes no one else will ever understand and have the same stupid complementary life dreams, they could have been good for each other, but there's no road back to where they were before the betrayal. Their chemistry is like two huge magnets strapped to land mines: the attraction is as powerful as ever but heaven help them both if they ever touch.

or, alternatively, two people that have all that chemistry, but are just really toxic and do bad things when they're together and enable all each other's worst tendencies, even if they don't necessarily do bad things to each other; and they've got to navigate the fact that they might adore each other so much but they are objectively worse people when they're together.

I like ships with inhuman things. As a writer I like waxing romantic about the inhuman things and trying to convince the reader that yes, this too is beautiful and lovable when seen through the eyes of a lover. I will make you take the stupidest love interest seriously for five minutes. I've romanticized a sticky pile of goo, I've romanticized a robot spider, I've romanticized the concept of being a disembodied voice, I've romanticized a pteranodon made out of lava, and I'll romanticize a cyclopic gold-plated corn chip too, don't test me. Who better to adore a sentient triangle than a scientist-artist who sees the beauty in precise angles?

Depending on the headcanons and/or AUs you're working with, you can get all of these pretty darn easily out of Billford.

I like writing Ford as the awed naive intellectual, hungry for knowledge, for the secrets of the universe, for more, who was utterly dazzled and starstruck by this divinity who tantalized him with esoteric secrets—and who's been furious at Bill for thirty years for betraying him, hurting him, threatening his home and everyone he loves, but underneath all that also furious at him for not being what he advertised when he could have been that; and Bill, meanwhile, playing it cool, far too comfortable playing the role of faux god, but privately, secretly distraught that his favorite "student"—the one who takes Bill's "teachings" and gets creative and inventive with them, the one who always wanted to know more, not just about the universe but about Bill personally—his favorite student no longer worships him, doesn't even respect him, doesn't even see him as an equal, but looks at him like he's the scum of the universe, and Bill won't even admit that it bothers him but it's killing him that nothing he does can get his favorite to so much as smile at him again.

That's the dynamic in my head when I write them. You could play it as purely professional, a god disappointed to lose a worshiper like a boss disappointed to lose his best employee or a celebrity disappointed to lose the president of his fan club; or you could play it like platonic friendship, maybe a QPR; or you could play it like a romance. I like the zest added when you toss romance into this already nasty mess of emotions. I like capping off all that heartache with, "—and if things had turned out differently, maybe I would have taken your hand and traveled with you to the ends of eternity, if only you weren't [such a brutal heartless backstabbing piece of shit]/[unable to forgive a few white lies and some light torture]."

Billdip, on the other hand, does absolutely nothing for me. Not even just for the age reason—that does squick me out, but even if I try to look at it like "okay pretend he's aged up" or "stick it in an AU where they're both dumb kids having dumb kid crushes" I just, see nothing there. I don't even see anything there platonically. Like, legitimately—for the fic I'm working on, I've been trying to figure out what kind of dynamic/interactions they'd have beyond just "Dipper scowls at Bill a lot" and even on that level I've been struggling to think of something compelling between them. I look back on the fact that for a good few years billdip was the ship in the fandom and I go, "why? where's the meat? what do they do for each other?"

I'm forced to imagine that the ship must have been based on some combination of "fandoms naturally want to ship the everyman main character with the charismatic fun villain," "a bunch of teens with crushes on Bill were using Dipper as their self-insert stand-in," and "people assumed Bill wasn't lying when he said Dipper impressed him and didn't start revising that opinion until we got to see firsthand that he uses lines like that on everybody." It feels really uncharitable of me to the shippers to assume that their OTP is founded entirely on statistically average fandom trends and character misinterpretations rather than, like, y'know, traits actually present in the characters, so I'm taking it on faith that there's probably more to it than that and I just don't see it because it just ain't my jam.

When I do try to speculate harder on "how would I get them to interact with each other in a compelling way, like, just in a platonic sense?" my brain starts going "well, dipper's a nerd who's into the paranormal, he wants to know about mysterious things? maybe he's fascinated with bill as a mysterious thing? and maybe... idk, why would bill give a hoot about dipper—maybe bill takes advantage of that fascination, tempts him with more information, maybe he's amused by Dipper's curiosity about weird things—?" and that's usually about the point where I go "this is just, the way Bill and Ford met. This is the watered-down junior version of Bill and Ford's first few weeks." In trying to figure out what the heck Bill and Dipper would even talk about I keep accidentally recreating a less interesting version of Bill and Ford's dynamic.

I want and need Bill and Dipper to have an interesting character dynamic in this fic so being unable to come up with something that personally compels me has been actively frustrating me lmfao, but it does serve to illustrate my main point here: man, billdip does nothing for me so hard that I can't even see them platonically interacting.

[annahanover]

holloway and/or wilbur for the ask game,, (and maybe ted if you want but you dont have to)

Holloway

favorite thing about them: uh, her charm! everyone in Hatchetfield loves her, and she knows that, and she uses that to her advantage. I just think she's neat.

least favorite thing about them: i dunno... ginger. yeah that's it

favorite line: "it’s just a teeny, tiny paradox. they happen all the time." <- fucking love this line

brOTP: uh... her and Brenda have a cool dynamic, from what we saw in Miss Holloween.

OTP: um yknow me,, I like her and Becky. I like her and Sheila. I like her and Wilbur. I like her and Duke. im cool with most ships with her

nOTP: don't think I've got one!

random headcanon: trans masc. she/they/it holloway for the win

unpopular opinion: uh... duke had every right to break up with her and holloweane doesn't have to be how it ends. ship them with other people my god

song i associate with them: I've Got All This Ringing In My Ears And None On My Fingers by Fall Out Boy!! you can thank @richie-shitlips for that!

favorite picture of them:

Wilbur

favorite thing about them: how tragic he is!! he had his mind rewritten to serve the very things he hated, but he doesn't care about that anymore! he's not even Wilbur Cross anymore! just a thing for the Lords in Black!

least favorite thing about them: his. his fucking scene with lex. it always makes me so uncomfortable. i know he's creepy and awful but haqisjjs /neg

favorite line: "that sounds like fun. slipping into someone else's skin. maybe I should give it a try." <- from witch in the web

brOTP: don't know if I have one. he doesn't seem like the type of have friends.

OTP: social apple 💪🏻💪🏻💪🏻💪🏻

nOTP: him and linda. i don't like that at all. ive seen him and wiggly a few times and im not nessecarily against that entirely, but i treat it the same way i treat billford (iykyk)

random headcanon: wilbur genderfuckery cross. i dunno he fucks around with gender

unpopular opinion: not sure I've got one!

song i associate with them: i don't have a wilbur playlist (i should), but The Masochism Tango by Tom Lehrer fits with him i think

favorite picture of them:

i habe. a lot :)

[sleepsentry]

for the ask game, number 8: unpopular fandom opinion(s) regarding gravity falls. also, love your work. ^_^

Thank you! ^^

Of course these are based on my assumptions about what's popular and these are takes I haven't seen around in the wild.

This kinda just devolves into a headcanon list towards the end. haha ^^'

OK so hmmmm oh boy there's a lot:

Gravity Falls is NOT the best thing ever it just had a bunch of really talented people working on it who made it super fun. But it's far from a golden standard and I don't think it should be held up as a standard, that idea is reductive and creatively stifling.

I don't like comparing Amphibia, Owl House, Duck Tales (2017), Inside Job and many others to Gravity Falls. The similarities are superficial and those shows shouldn't be living in Gravity Fall's shadow. They deserve to stand tall and cast their own.

On that note Alex Hirsch is just some guy and I don't like his stuff on its own that much. He's not that funny or interesting to me, but he is just some guy. Hope he doesn't turn out to be a shitty dude. *shrug*

Stanley is overrated (I love him but jeez guys. He's not that endearing.)

Rick and Morty x Gravity Falls is a terrible crossover, tonally, technically and thematically. (I also am just very unimpressed by rick and morty in general)

Stanchez is bad. Rick can eat my shorts. Stan "deserves better". Obviously the fan creations are good. But they don't change my mind about the base idea.

The stans both did nothing wrong ever and I love them deeply without comparing them. (joke I know they fuck up, but they fuck up together.)

Fiddauthor is mid and boring. It comes off as amatonormative and people overall are very exclusionary over it wich is just being a dick and using a ship preference to justify it. (I dont mean to be mean but yeah, you guys are doing fine you can take some salt.)

Ford and Fidd are more like siblings than a couple.

Ford and Fidd both dismissed eachother and the miscommunication was on both of them. (Similair to stan and ford it's no one character's fault)

Ford and Fidd's relationship has more emotional weight viewed through the platonic lense of fidds being older than ford by two or three years and "adopting" him as a "little brother" in college, and how that followed them into their 30s even when the age gap had long become irrelevant. Rather than just "gay sad nerds have marital issues" as fun as that sounds.

Fiddleford is a crazy, scary, adorable, kind, stupid, genuis. This man contains multitudes, I try my best not to flanderize him into one over the other. He can be all those fun things.

Fiddlestan is inherently more funny and compelling than fiddauthor. (To me, to me.)

Fillbrick wasn't the devil incarnate he was just a shit dad, wich fair enough is very bad. Haha (idk there isn't enough of him for me to truly hate and I'd rather not assume the worst, I deal with abusive parents enough in my day to day I don't need to add one to my fav silly show haha)

Billford isn't "toxic" it's too bizarre for that, and much is left to be inferred about both characters and their dynamic. (Again, assuming the worst instead of something more fitting and fun) It's obviously bad for ford but I thought everyone hated him when he isn't nice to stan or being shipped with fidds so it should be cool. (Sarcasm)

Dipper and mabel fuck up equally and mabel is generally more empathetic and aware of the world around her than dipper who hyperfocuses. (Been there pal.)

Mabel is more similar to Ford and Dipper is more similar to Stan

Dipper is a good boy but a bit on the boring side for me. He's fine. I like him well enough.

Mabel is more relatable to me, but I relate to dip's anxiety disorder so bad.

Dipper would NOT grow up to look like Ford. He'd look like shermy or stan.

Mabel would grow up to be bigger and broader than dipper. She'd also be the one to get glasses and look more like ford. She's already halfway there with the hair and jumpers (sweaters)

Jokes about ford failing to impress girls are cringe, heteronormative and bad. And ford doesn't like anyone. (Bill is his own can of eldritch worms)

Dipper doesn't like girls in the way he thought he should and that's why his crush on wendy played out the way it did, it was never really about her, it was about his relationship to her. How she helped him find someone to admire, and was kinda his first real friend who he felt was cool and understood him, heteronormativity made him think he liked her romantically. He so obviously didn't that it hurts my soul.

Mabcifica is underrated as hell and more interesting than dipcifica. That being said.

I do ship dipcifica but in a queer way. You guys don't get it. They're queer.

The cis/heteronormative takes where pacifica and dipper have children together and dipper looks older but Pacifica is just her kid face on a sexy lady bod make me uncomfortable.

And that's why Dipper, Mabel and Pacifica could grow up into a polyamorous "Vee" relationship. [When one person is dating two people who aren't dating eachother, in this case obviously cause they're twins. It forms a "V" from Pacifica to the Pines twins ^^]

What was this ask originally about?

[gnomewithalaptop]

ask game ? 👛♟️🌸♠️

Hi thanks for the ask <3

👛 - favorite rare pair

Ooh for Gravity Falls that would probably be either Candip or Mabifica. For DC, I'd say probably Steph Brown/Cassie Sandsmark or Cassie/Cissie King Jones (idk if they have a ship name)

♟️ - a character you feel is overrated?

Oof this one's hard, because most characters in the media I watch/read are actually pretty decent. For GF I'm going to poke the bear and say Bill, because while he's a cool villain, I do think he's a bit oversaturated, at least in fandom. For DC I'll say Shazam (sorry billy stans)

🌸 - a ship others dislike but you don't?

With Gravity Falls, people seem to hate on BillFord a lot bc it's abusive, but I think if handled correctly, it's a really interesting exploration of a toxic dynamic. For DC though... Timber (timbern? Tim Drake/Bernard Dowd? idk which name is correct). Honestly, like, it's a little bland and underdeveloped, and yeah, maybe nobody's cloning anyone to bring them back from the dead, but I've seen some fun fics for them

♠️ - favorite protagonist?

For Gravity Falls, it's Mabel, hands down. I love her. Light of my life Mabel Pines you will always be famous. For DC, it's Tim Drake, but I need to acknowledge the fact that I love him because he's an unhinged asshole that thinks he's the only sane person in the room at any given time and I think that's really funny