#wrote the ending for horikoshi

[haine-kleine]

and now for something different: another thought piece on the ending.

if you really think about it, the setups for the villains by itself weren't bad, what made the ending bad was so random abandonment of those setups.

I'd go as far as saying the villains got the better end of the deal, writing wise. unlike the heroes, who had to be reduced to ooc or had their screen time almost completely cut to make the contradicting ending flow fast without stumbling against the actual characters, the League were in character until the very end, and then they just disappeared from the story. just compare Shouto barely appearing and for the most part just Standing There to Touya being allowed to stay bitter and express that to his family, telling Enji off and then growing enough to apologize to Shouto. compare Ochako's stepford smiler complex blowing up in her face, and her breakdown about Toga being glossed over, shifting the focus to the class shenanigans, showing her perfectly happy and smiling in every single appearance from then on to Spinner's rightful rage and grief over Shigaraki's death, calling Deku a murderer and never coming to forgive him or move on from what was done to him, to all of them.

the villains are allowed consistency that the heroes aren't. because to make the ending happen so quickly and for the ending's events to make sense, the characters need to be reshaped and mutate into completely different ones, or to disappear from the radar completely.

and yeah, it sucks that we are left to decode and finish the threads of the story Horikoshi had left for us on our own, but at least the wiggle room and a wide door of possibilities was left open for the villains. the heroes' conclusions were strictly established and pretending that this ending doesn't belong to a completely different story seems like a worse option.

say, Deku has been pushed along the way by the narrative to save Shigaraki for almost the entirety of the manga. it's not even his failure that breaks the story in half, it's him and every other character save for Spinner acting like they are fine with it. Izuku's acceptance of this outcome for Shigaraki before he is even gone reshapes him into a completely different character, one who was fine with passing Eri by and not organizing a whole operation to save the little girl who was set up as Shigaraki's foil.

Shigaraki however, remains a whole character true to himself. his goals of making his voice heard and saving his friends are unchanged. he didn't change his mind and remained committed to these goals, and even if he wasn't allowed to do that on-screen, that's what our literacy analysis and imagination are for. one thing he and Deku did successfully achieve was breaking him free of AFO's vice grip on his life, and for the rest, he has Kurogiri and the League. who are conveniently missing throughout the final chapter.

Spinner was suffering in the end because of Shigaraki and his other friends' loss. Toga had committed a heroic act and then was left by the heroes to die. Dabi was reunited with his family and despite getting everything he ever dreamed of from them, he is miserable and crying in the end. Mr Compress was imprisoned after sacrificing himself to save the League, similarly to how Kurogiri was. Kurogiri was freed by the League. his consciousness was damaged but he pulled himself together for the singular goal of saving Tomura, because his friends are waiting for him, because he was supposed to save these people and become their hero.

he was even given a tool to do that, a combination of OFA and Overhaul quirks. the boy who had killed his family by accident, with a five fingers touch, brainwashed to think he did that to punish them for rejecting him. that boy being freed from the man who has been grooming and manipulating him since he was 5, having the freedom to make his own decisions and saving the people he had welcomed into his life with that same five fingers touch. becoming the League of Villains' saviour.

[angy-grrr]

i have an issue I see with ppl trying to make shippers "understand" their ship could not become canon, and I dont think many would expect it.

Why are we pretending being in your late 30s is being middle age? Dont get me wrong, being a middle aged person doesn't have to mean anything about someone, but its just- not middle age literally.

I dont really understand bringing that up anyways, iit feels wrong to me to believe just ppl in their teens and 20s could ever do anything pro LGBT+ in general... I find it insulting, as if this is a new thing or impossible to believe older people could believe in queerness in a positive light or be queer themselves. The main reason in the west, and im assuming other parts of the world, there arent as many or as visible is, well, because people were dying because of the AIDS crisis + the isolation from being older and every single public space made for or just young queers or cishet older adults.

I get the point, but if I remember correctly every time I see someone trying to do that (of course im believing they have the best intentions in mind), they have to bring up how this is a Japanese middle aged man as a good enough reason.

I don't really mind about what others want to believe or how much they care in terms of shipping -if you prefer to be casual and not paying that much attention to what's canon or not, good for you! Many ppl are also like that and its completely valid, here in this side of Tumblr might seem like all of us believe and theorize about their endgame potential bc we are the ones that usually make more posts or longer content. But I dont like those assumptions about queerness being tied to young westerners, and I wanted to rant a little bit.

Again, I dont believe that was the intention in any of those posts, and im not trying to call out anyone, just rant.

[mci-writing]

Warmth (Midoriya Izuku x Reader)

Warnings: Obsessiveness (near the end), implied major character death, reanimated corpse (it’s Deku), necromancy, Deku is the equivalent of Frankenstein’s monster kinda, a little ooc, mentions of pain, descriptions of skin burning (not exactly but yeah idk how to explain it)

Kofi

Viridian irises glance over the form laid before them, a longing sigh passing through chapped lips and landing on deaf ears. Fingers, cold to the touch and tinted blue from lack of flowing blood and oxygen, slide across the small expanse of exposed (s/t) skin, the thumb stopping just under a closed left eye and softly, lovingly, tenderly rubbing the area. It leaves the warmest goosebumps, so warm it should ache, dulling once the contact is distanced.

Whispers of ‘patience’ sound through the air, chilling down to the bone and causing him to pull away out of instinct. The reactions of those around him tell him that they aren’t really there, but he can’t help his response after being told such for so long. For so achingly long.

“Deku-kun,” He feels himself straighten at the voice beside him, a hand setting itself at the small of his back. The thumb rubs small, circles in an attempt to soothe his worrying, “If you keep tugging at your lip like that, you’ll rip it off.”

He becomes self-aware of his habit after his companion points it out, cheeks warming as he quickly lets it go. He wets his lips with his tongue after, teeth grazing over the bottom one as they pop out. He’s unable to stop the awkward chuckle that follows or the way his eyes flit from those around him to the body on the table.

“I’m sure (L/n)-San wouldn’t mind reattaching it once they wake, Uraraka-San,” Todoroki stands near the door, his eyes never straining from beyond the frame as he speaks to them. It’s hard to miss his tense demeanor from where they’re placed, one of his fangs pointing past his lips.

Izuku feels himself sweat at that, a wobbly smile forming on his face as he brings his full attention back to the other members of their group. The best he can manage out is a small “T-Thanks, Todoroki-San” as his hand connects with (Y/n)’s and laces his fingers through theirs.

Silence fills the room again after that. Midoriya can hear his heart racing and feel (Y/n)’s faint pulse. They pump in tandem together, like always. Yet, it does nothing to ease his fears. He knows that spell they cast was powerful, but they’ve been out for a few days now. The only reassurances he’s received of them still being alive was the small noises they’d make as they rested, the way their hand tightly holds his each time he holds it, and the addictive burn he receives with each touch to their skin.

The book of necromancy did say that some spells would be harder to cast for users with less experience, but Midoriya didn’t realize that translated to needing to rest for so long to regain the little strength of power (Y/n) knew how to use. He would’ve tried harder to suggest something else for their escape.

“Oi, Deku!” The rough voice of his childhood friend wakes him from his thoughts, his thumb and forefinger making themselves known on his lips as they tightly squeeze from the small jump he makes. He’s being side-eyed by shades of crimson, but not many would catch the soft worry behind them, “Me n Shitty Hair’s got the ship waiting at the dock. Cargo truck’s outside.”

Emerald eyes meet the fiery shades, an understanding spoken between them that only their little bubble could process. Without a beat, Bakugou comes forward and lifts the end of the slab they're laying across and Todoroki is quick to grab the other end. They load it into the cargo truck's trunk, careful to ensure they're strapped down in the back before Todoroki hops out. Midoriya watches on, eyes longing for the warmth he’s just lost.

~~~~~

The car only holds four people, debatably three if you wanted to argue whether or not Midoriya could still be counted as human in his current form. He was undead, that much he could confirm from the way his body had been stitched together and the ice cold feeling of his skin when he wasn’t within a certain proximity of (Y/n). He was something like Frankenstein, but the context seemed less science fiction and more fantasy. He had no clue why he had been brought back to life, just that he had been. (Y/n) and Kacchan always avoided the question when he’d ask how he’d died.

That’s another thing, it’s always the three of them. Even now, only Kacchan and (Y/n) were going to board the boat with him. Kirishima was only here to take them there and back.

His gaze pans away from the passing scenery outside to the body pressed against his. His cheeks warm as bright a red as they possibly can at the proximity, yet he can’t force himself to move away from the burning sensation of their skin touching. It hurts in the nicest way possible, making him feel way more alive than he thought possible. It’s why he thought he had just woken from a long sleep instead of immediately thinking he’d come back to life, the warmth too comforting for him to question anything at the time. Both of his companions joked about it being out of character for him.

He takes in the low rise of their chest and the serene look of their face. It’s one of the very few times he hasn’t seen them worried out of their mind since being brought back to life. He’s tried not to keep count of their smiles, one of his favorite aspects about them. If with their lips held in a neutral shape, he’s fighting the urge to kiss them until they swell.

He feels himself warm more at the repeated thought of laying a kiss on their unconscious form. He should be ashamed, but he’s been wanting to be intimate with them for a while now. It’s gotten so bad he gets a little jealous when he catches them and Kacchan away from him, whispering between themselves in a bubble of their own that he feels he won’t fit in.

That thought sours his feelings a little, especially when he knows he could never take them from Kacchan and he could never take Kacchan from them. The idea of them moving forward without him, leaving him out, and further pushing him away from the picture he'd perfectly fit in before his current state, gives him a deep pit feeling in his chest that he doesn't enjoy dwelling on for too long.

But right here… Right now…? He could just give them a quick peck and pretend it didn’t happen. No one would know… Unless they woke up from it or something…

He weighs his options, emerald eyes measuring and tracing the outlines of your lips. He has vivid memories of the one time he managed to get a kiss from them, in the dead of night when the only witnesses aside from themselves were the twinkling constellations. He doesn't remember how long ago it was, but he can perfectly picture the sight of them shyly smiling, their face warm, and (e/c) eyes dilated like a super moon. Their lips fit perfectly against his, slated and locked like they were meant to be attached for eternity, and delectably soft like fresh baked goods straight from the oven. He'd press his lips against them as much as he possibly could, suffocate against them even.

The cons would be them waking and beating the shit out of him... Or Kacchan catching him and beating the shit out of him...

Midoriya leans forward, hand burning as he cups their cheek. He rubs his thumb against their skin as his lips finally meet theirs again. It feels like home, his lips feverishly sucking against the plump flesh like he'll never be able to do so again.

He pulls away once he realizes he's being too greedy, too desperate. He sucks in a deep breath, the butterflies rising to his chest as his heart pounds against his ribcage. He can feel the warm honeydew in his cheeks, worsening when his eyes dart up and meet a certain pair of crimson ones. They stare at one another for a moment, but Midoriya can't read what Bakugou is thinking at all. Bakugou sends him a small smile, or something close to it. His lips quirk upward on one side before he turns back to the road. Kirishima is talking about something, but he's obviously not paying attention.

"'Zuku?" The soft call of his name has him looking down, meeting the dazed stare of (Y/n). They're still relatively exhausted from their overuse of magic, a bit of light missing from their pupils. They press their cheek into his hand, the bags under their eyes heavy, "Are we... heading there?"

"We're going to the dock right now, (Y/n). Kacchan's in the front seat and Kirishima's driving us there," Midoriya informs them, voice low as to not cause them any discomfort. He knows they typically suffer from headaches after too much use of their necromancy abilities, "I'm sure you should be able to rest a bit longer-"

"No, no," They begin to sit up, getting a grip on his shoulder and using it to push themselves up. They let go and force themselves to sit up on their knees, getting in a position where they can easily look out the window, "I have to check that... we're not... Not being..."

Their voice trails off as they grab their head, another splintering headache racking their body from the sudden movement. Midoriya is quick to grab hold of them, leaning their body against his. Gravity lays them back across his lap, their face pressing into the fabric of his shirt while they close their eyes. Out of instinct, he presses his fingers against the nape of their neck, slowly sliding them upwards to press at various spots in the back of their head.

"No one's following us, (Y/n). We made sure of that..." He murmurs, pushing their hair out of their eyes. His hand eases down the side of their face, fingers hooking under their chin and pushing it up so they can see him better, "Get your rest."

"Izuku...," They stare at him for a moment, different emotions flashing through their (e/c) eyes. One of their hands reaches up for his cheek, the flesh feeling as if it'll catch on fire at any moment. They pull away too quickly for his liking, the same stricken look reaching their eyes like every other time they touch him and they're reminded of their afflictions. He's heard them apologize to him in the late hours before.

With little thought, he grabs their hand and presses it back to his flesh. He feels just a little closer to being human again at the touch. He nuzzles into their hold, keeping eye contact with them and watching the confliction beyond their irises. He doesn't care about the way his body screams to flinch away from the heat, pressing more into it as opposed to as opposed to running from it. He tightens his hold when he feels them try to tug away from him.

“Izuku, stop. You’re hurting yourself-,”

"No, it's okay," He responds too quickly, leaning into their touch. He presses his ear to their chest, listening to the steady beating of their heart and the movement of their breathing in their chest. The heat isn't as excruciating, simmering to an addictive warmth adjacent to bodies entangled in a hug. It crawls over his skin and wraps around him like a blanket, "Everything is okay..."

He never wants to leave from (Y/n)'s hold, (Y/n)'s warmth, ever again. He doesn't know how he could ever live without it, especially not now when the cold is even colder than before...

[cherrylomain]

Seeing peoples thoughts on dabi/touya will always be interesting to me

like on one hand he was an abused kid who had a psychological break so I get why people feel for him but at the same time, hes a terrorist murderer lol 

[jillflame]

The fact that the Todoroki family storyline is a tragedy.

The fact that the manga ends with every single one of the Todoroki children remaining irreversibly damaged.

The fact that sometimes hurt is just hurt and there isn't a higher reason for it.

The fact that despite taking different approches, none of the Todoroki children are judged by the narritive for their choices in moving forward and finding their own peace.

The fact that Horikoshi didnt set out to write a story of justice in his superhero comic, but instead wrote a realistic take on how abuse survivors actually get treated by the world we live in.

[hamliet]

Excited for your thoughts on the bnha ending

Also I’ll be honest I dropped this like 200 chs ago and I’ve just kept up through your metas because I was so disillusioned with the manga 🥲 I even sold my copies

it's a bit bittersweet to see bnha handled this way. sometimes i think we'll get a promising continuation from the author which is major cope for me T.T

fix its are otw but damn it doesn't mend that it ended this way rn

Diff asks, answering together.

Not saying too much because there's not much to be said besides that a friend who wrote a meta who won't post it (to all our detriment!) said it best last week: this story is cowardly. It's afraid to say or do anything because it wants to make everyone happy and realized it can't, so now it just wants to make no one upset, but everyone's upset.

I feel sad for Horikoshi. His recent interviews are quite depressing, and he seems burned out and done with his own manga in a way that makes Gege look enthusiastic about JJK.

Like, he doesn't confirm Touya dead or alive--which frankly I will take--but leaves it up to the reader to decide. Is the doctor's word final, or is Touya crying a symbol of healing since he previously couldn't? I know which one I choose to believe, but this way people can choose to fit the manga into their personal beliefs. He's trying to say nothing to avoid rocking the boat. And that's just sad, especially when we consider what likely contributed to that.

Which is to say, on a purely story level, the story has no power. There's being open to other perspectives and then there's not having a message. This is sadly the latter. It's a mess. Deku "heroes save" doesn't save, but he's still heroic, but that line isn't demolished or destroyed. AFO may be dead, but he won in the end because what he used to taunt Deku came true. Deku's character is nothing more than a vehicle--no struggle, no emotional climax, no principles. The ships are not even confirmed because the story can't even commit to the obvious Ochaco/Deku (which I dislike even!) for fear of angering other loud shippers. Society is the problem, but also the answer. The hero system is the problem, but also the answer. It's not a paradox because it doesn't explain the layers at play here. It's just noodles that have cooked far too long and turned into a congealed mess.

The only message I can take from it is "yay authoritarianism" which I'm going to hope Horikoshi is saying accidentally (and most likely is). It's as meaningless as GoT season 8, and TROS, and that's not good company to be in.

[dekusheroacademia]

I love how much of the Togachako chapters and ending of Ochako in MHA mimic the first ever yuri manga published.

I have been on a shojo kick and tried to read all manga that kickstarted GL and BL, and especially the Year 24 group authors (go read Moto Hagio... her work is wild). Among the Year 24, the author Yamagishi Ryouko who wrote the first yuri manga: "Shiroi Heya no Futari".

This post will have full spoilers for this manga!

The manga follows the story of Resine, a very sweet girl who is also very naive, and her new roommate Simone, who is a rebel, often laughs and can be kind of mean. Simone is much more open with her feelings, she loves freely as well and she soon falls in love with Resine and declares her love openly.

Resine tries to forget about Simone by dating Rounaud but he is not what she really wants.

Resine is not ready to accepts Simone's love - not because she does not love her back, but because she is afraid of the rumors around them, basically of society's reaction. She decides to leave the school.

Later she finds out Simone has been killed and she laments that she was at fault for it - because Simone was killed after goading a man, telling this man that she was in love with someone else when he tried to flirt with her. Simone is stabbed to death and dies because of blood loss, smiling and thinking of Resine:

The end of the manga sees Resine reading a poem Simone wrote about her and for her, and she decides to love Simone for the rest of her life and never love again, always mourning Simone.

The ending sets the scene with Resine alone on a cliff/in the forest, crying about Simone while Rounaud (the man Resine tried to fall in love with to avoid being queer) runs towards her to console her.

This is just like Deku reaching for Ochako while Ochako is mourning. We can see Resine and Ochako both curling over each other's in pain, to cry about Toga-Simone.

Their regret is also similiar, it is not only pain but guilt. Both Resine and Ochako think their loved one died because of them.

I thought the similarities were quite a lot. Maybe it is by chance, maybe it is just because of how influencial the first yuri was in determining the standards of many subsequient GL work, but it is still interesting.

Resine and Ochako are both positive girls, naive girls experiencing love for the first time. Both try to fall in love/fall in love with a boy (Deku, in the case of MHA) which is the socially acceptable choice for them, the choice that society would not mock or shame.

Both characters are put in contrast with another (Simone and Toga) who is open with her feelings. She is not afraid of acting freely, she wants to be free and she keeps her freedom even if that leads her to her death. The "teaching" experience is the same for both Simone and Ochako: live freely, declare what you love without shame.

Many expected that this meant Ochako would declare her feelings towards Deku, and instead Horikoshi uses this lesson to allow Ochako to mourn for Toga and to feel pain.

In both manga, Ochako and Resine end up living for Toga and Simone. Resine declares that she will always love and mourn Simone, while we see Ochako dedicating her life to never allow someone to be abandoned by society like Toga was:

[codenamesazanka]

Cynical and bitter but I've been wondering if the League getting such a downer ending was indeed the plan all along.

Originally, Horikoshi never wanted to do Villain profiles. He wanted the Villains to be scary. Maybe he always intended death to be the answer to them, even as he expanded on their backstories.

In an old interview from 2018, when asked if Shigaraki is a villain who should be saved, Horikoshi does answer 'yes', but then follow it up with: "I think that we have gotten to the point where Shigaraki can no longer turn back though."

Movie 2 ending - which Horikoshi said was the ending he originally planned - has Deku and Bakugou punching Nine (pseudo-Shigaraki) to death-as-they-know-it.

Once again, technically, Shigaraki's heart was saved. Deku smashed his hatred. Deku took Tenko's hands. Unfortunately Shigaraki didn't immediately convert to Heroism and still wanted to fight for the League - point where he didn't turn back - so Deku gave up trying to save him physically.

A few weeks before, I thought that Horikoshi just got tied and wrapped things up in the quickest and sadly weirdest way possible. I still am willing to allow that, but ever since Horikoshi started Act 3 three years ago, he never actually wrote Heroes giving the Villains' grievances any serious consideration until it comes out during the confrontation and the Heroes giving a few words towards it at best, and at worse, not even knowing the problem (quirk counseling, Tenko's Walk). He let Uraraka and Deku still adhere to insisting on practically dehumanizing their opponents/Villains the day before the final battle (probably so that when Uraraka and Deku realize they still can't ignore the pain they see in their Villains and finally reach out a bit, that's the height of compassion and heroism.)

But really, sorry not sorry to sound like a broken record, Act 3 had Deku acting like a dipshit the entire time. He says he wants to save The Crying Child he saw inside Shigaraki's heart, and not necessarily Shigaraki the person, and never actually takes killing off the table. He only vaguely keeps up this idea. He never reveals this desire to anyone, never involves his friends or adults in this plan. He doesn't even have a concrete plan, and all he never did was just to keep punching Shigaraki to kingdom come. He never actually protested when Gran Torino told him he should kill Shigaraki, he never opposes the creation of a battlefield called "Sky Coffin", he does not speak up when the Heroes says they prefer the AFO persona to be in possession of Shigaraki. During their whole fight, Deku barely talks to the guy.

The best Deku ever does is to hold back on giving Shigaraki an annihilation blow until he could find out why The Crying Child was crying, which he does by literally smashing into Shigaraki's core to pry his trauma open. And even then, when Tenko is spilling out his guilt and grief that he killed his family, as well as his fears that his existence is cursed, all Deku has to say is "Well, holding hands feels nice, so I'm here." I get that's supposed to be like, Deku accepting Tenko despite Tenko having a deadly quirk and blood on his hands, but come on. As an act of Greatest Heroism that it's supposed to be, that's so... low bar, to put it mildly.

(Then when Shigaraki gets repossessed, Deku gives up any thinking on saving Shigaraki, and then readies up the annihilation punch. Volume release even expands on just how much power and preparation Deku is using to smash Shigaraki's body to pieces. There's no intent to figure out if Shigaraki is still there to bring back or minimize harm to Shigaraki's body so there's something left after AFO is gone. It's not an accident. Deku fully goes in for the kill.)

It all feels like truly saving Shigaraki - from possession, from AFO, from his distorted worldview, from a Hero System that hurt his friends, from his belief that the world isn't worth preserving - just wasn't a real goal for Deku. Never was, in Act 3. He wanted to understand The Crying Child and give some relief there, but that's it. Like exorcising an evil spirit and then forcing them to move on, never actually wanting the spirit to remain and continue existing - because there's no place for them in this world. (Which is why Deku also never has a vision for what comes after, for Shigaraki. Shouto wanted a meal with Dabi, Uraraka promised her blood to Toga, but Deku? Nothing.)

Overall, the ending actually does fit Deku's writing in the last act. He wants to save the ghost of The Crying Child but nothing else. He expands minimal effort in actually connecting with Shigaraki the adult man. He has no interest in addressing Shigaraki's grievances (nor in also saving the rest of League that Shigaraki is doing all this for) (and also it turns out Shigaraki's grievances aren't real because AFO made most of them up). His strategy is just to beat up Shigaraki until Shigaraki throws up his trauma.

Adding to that, Deku's last words to a dying Shigaraki is that he can't forgive him, so basically he's considering Shigaraki as having past the point of return - exactly as Horikoshi stated in his interview. There might be something to Deku regretfully telling All Might that he couldn't save Tenko's life, but when he follows it up with "Even after I smashed his hatred, he still wanted to stay the League's leader," that really can't be anything but Deku basically putting some of the blame on Shigaraki, for not ditching his friends (who, to Deku, apparently don't deserve to be saved alongside Shigaraki). Sticking with the League is being past the point of turning back... which is the same conclusion Hawks comes to with Twice, in Act 2 (...so it seems that's been there all along.)

The ending fits Deku's writing - and overall - in the last act (and even before that.) Deku's utter non-progress fits Shigaraki's conclusion. His half-hearted actions made sense and so of course led to his final battle of just giving Shigaraki a giant Smash (but with pity and some sympathy, because he's not an cold killer but a Hero who can even spare emotions towards a monster).

I really had toyed with the idea that maybe Horikoshi got tired and just ended it this sad way. Now I'm no longer so generous.

[oshiawaseni]

Alright guys here’s some Hori-brand freshly juiced bkdk meta.

Before chapter 415, I was writing a post on twitter about how I really love the “Dokun” of Shigaraki’s heart beat when Izuku punched him and how it’s the same sound effect for Izuku’s panic attack and also when Katsuki’s bead of sweat brought his heart back to life.

at the end of my post I casually wrote: It definitely feels like this is being written in a way that gives: “memories are bringing Shigaraki’s heart back to life.” and then it just freaking hit me about the other place DOKUN showed up… chapter 403… Katsuki’s first appearance after reviving.

I realised OH. OH SHIT!! “DOKUN” is the onomatopoeia Hori has been using for their hearts being brought back to life…

Katsuki in the literal sense, Shigaraki in the spiritual sense, Izuku in the ROMANTIC sense.

Now that we have Shigaraki's example of it, we can see this pattern that “DOKUN” is Horikoshi's chosen sound for hearts being revived.

And if we look back to after Izuku's panic attack, with this retrospect, we can surmise that the one last big “DOKUN” was drawn when Katsuki was finally revealed alive because Izuku’s “heart” had revived.

And so through the narrative’s subtleties, we are once again being told that Kacchan is Izuku’s heart. 🧡💚

[stillness-in-green]

Do you think that afo's claim is true that Shigaraki never made a choice of his own?

Okay, so, I wrote about a thousand words answering this, and what I eventually settled on is that you can’t (or at least, my rambly ass can’t) really answer it properly without meandering into a philosophical cul-de-sac about The Problem of Free Will. I tried to rewrite it and it just got longer. Blame the Philosphy 101 class I took back in college.

Consider: What does it mean to “make a choice of your own”?  What is required for free choice, and has Shigaraki’s free choice been not merely hindered but wholly fettered for his entire life?  Is his agency limited in a way unique to him?  Was it possible for him to have made decisions other than the ones he did?  Why or why not?

On top of a bunch of philosophical/biological questions applied to Shigaraki as if he were a real person, you also have the meta-narrative questions.  What does Horikoshi think?  Did he intend AFO to be read as a reliable narrator in his claim about Shigaraki’s lack of free choice?  Are those answers consistent with the way Shigaraki and AFO’s relationship is portrayed and the portrayal of the actions of other characters in the story?

I don’t really want to turn this into a dissertation on the nature of free will, and that’s not a solved problem in the real world, anyway, so any possible answer is going to come down to a practical, situational assessment and a judgement call. With that in mind, hit the jump.

Per this post, the evidence points towards Horikoshi believing that All For One was making a truthful statement, if only because, if it weren’t true, presumably he would have written Deku contradicting the man, which he didn’t.  And, indeed, Shigaraki himself, in his rueful musing that he was just a kid throwing a tantrum after all, would seem to agree as well.  So taking the text purely at face value, AFO’s claim is likely true in the sense that the author intends it to be definitive.  (Which makes Deku killing Shigaraki all the more loathsome, but that’s neither here nor there.)

So the next question is, am I as a reader obligated to agree with Horikoshi as an author, and do I?

Ultimately, my answer to both halves of that question is no.  If I take a holistic view of BNHA, one that accounts for the entire scope of Shigaraki and AFO’s relationship rather than just the stuff at the very end, I do not think that AFO’s claim about Shigaraki was correct—or, if it is correct, then there’s little difference between Shigaraki’s agency and that of anyone else in the world.

See, the thing is, every piece of evidence we have pre-Liberation War points to an All For One who was genuinely trying to cultivate Shigaraki into a powerful force with a strong will of his own, someone able to stand on his own two feet, able to be a Villain to be reckoned with entirely on his own merits.  Post-Kamino, AFO reflects in his own mind—talking to no one and thus with no one to fool—that it is a teacher’s job to raise their ward to be independent.  Tomura relied on him, but now that the Heroes have locked AFO away, Tomura is ready, rage stoked, to take charge, and he’ll be fine, able to use his experiences, his hatred, and his regrets to fuel himself moving forward.

Heck, even the previous, very damning, “He will be the next me,” rejoinder to Ujiko could, absent AFO’s stupid endgame conflation of quirk consciousness with literal consciousness, easily be read as AFO intending Shigaraki to be the next person like himself, the heir to AFO’s position and resources, rather than his literal next vessel.  He’s got no reason to play coy with Ujiko, after all; if he was referencing the vessel business, why not just say so?[1] In a story that wasn’t trying to convince everyone that the continued existence of the quirk All For One is precisely synonymous with the continued existence of a certain orphan boy born under a bridge, AFO would have no reason to be pursuing cockamamie possession plots, and therefore no need for a Shigaraki whose will can be simultaneously stronger than One For All’s yet easily shattered with a single well-timed reveal.

1: See more of my previous posts than I care to try to link where I complain about Horikoshi’s bald-faced, bad faith lying to the reader for the purposes of building drama or misdirection.

Being independent means being able to make your own choices and chart your own course.  There was a point at which AFO wanted that for Shigaraki; the fact that Shigaraki was able to meet his expectations in this regard has no inherent bearing on Shigaraki’s free will.  You get into irresolvable paradoxes real quick-like if you start saying things like, “Shigaraki being independent because AFO wanted him to be independent means Shigaraki isn’t truly independent!”

It’s kind of like saying, “My parents want me to graduate from school and become independent, but if I just do what they want, that makes me their puppet.  I’ll flunk out and keep living at home, instead.  Being dependent on my parents’ income will really prove how independent I am!”  See the issue?  Person A’s desires for Person B do not impede Person B’s free choice unless Person A acts on Person B in a way that limits their choices.  Person A encouraging and supporting Person B in becoming independent of Person A is the antithesis of limiting them.

This portrayal continues into the backstory we see in the My Villain Academia flashbacks.  From what we see, AFO was not teaching Shigaraki that he could only destroy (the common interpretation), but rather desensitizing him to the option of destruction.  My read was that AFO wanted Shigaraki to be wholly amoral and grudge-bearing against Heroes, such that Shigaraki would pursue vengeance on Hero Society without recognizing or hesitating over ethical boundaries; beyond that, though, he was happy to let Shigaraki do things however Shigaraki saw fit, be that raw destructiveness or alliance-building with other Villains.

When his ward was young, this encouragement involved some behavioral modification tactics.  That’s the kind of phrase that sounds bad, but it’s actually a very standard part of parenting; I would argue there’s only one thing AFO does to Tenko that really goes beyond the pale.  Giving him the family hands and telling him to always keep them close is, by any measure, a grossly manipulative and controlling thing to do, explicitly intended to keep the boy from healing.[2]

2: Though it’s notably something AFO has been inflicting on himself, too, since we know he kept Yoichi’s hand.  Given the striking parallel of AFO coming to Tenko as one family-killing orphan “born” under a bridge to another, one wonders how much of what AFO does to Shigaraki is based on his own life, and how much that might have been behind the, “He will be the next me,” quip.  Shigaraki musing that he takes things when they’re offered to him feels of a piece with this.  Sure, it could be something AFO groomed him towards, but it could also just be an outlook on life Shigaraki learned from AFO in the same way any child might pick up on their parents’ philosophies.

As to the rest?  There are two major things I could point to, and both are—while diametrically morally opposite to the standard goals of childrearing—pretty normal in terms of childrearing philosophy.

Firstly, AFO pretty clearly buys Tenko a nice computer directly after he murders the two thugs that had been picking on him.[3]  Secondly, he heaps Tenko with verbal praise for the same act, compared to his gentle scolding when Tenko was previously being reluctant.  As to whether AFO used further methods of behavioral conditioning, that’s less clear.  Him sitting on the bed keeping his hands to himself while Tenko writhes on the floor in an agony of itching is certainly repellant, but he’s not withholding physical comfort in the way behavioral modification would describe unless he had previously been giving Tenko physical comfort and was now denying it.  After that one hug under the bridge, though, we never see AFO physically touching Shigaraki again until the cave, and at that point the two of them are mentally merged enough that AFO can presumably feel safe about touching Shigaraki without the latter having any sudden turns in temper that would get AFO Decayed.  So I think the giving/withholding of praise, and the rewarding of physical objects of value, is more supportable as an argument of AFO using behavioral modification tactics than him giving/withholding physical expressions of comfort.

3: Nothing else in Tenko’s room is 100% provable as a reward in this sense.  The rows of books are there from the very beginning.  The computer monitor definitely only appears after the thugs are killed; previously the only thing on Tenko’s desk was the pile of family hands.  The mangled Hero toys, however, could have shown up sometime in the interim between Tenko being brought to the room and his encounter with the thugs.  We don’t get any angles showing the shelves containing them in the scene where AFO is encouraging him to act as his heart desires, so we don’t know for sure whether Tenko already had them by that point or not.

As to whether all this had a debilitating impact of Shigaraki’s free will, I’m skeptical.  To my eye, and with the exception of the business with the hands, the way AFO raises Tomura is bad because AFO teaches Tomura to do bad things, not bad because it’s damaging to Tomura’s independence—unless, to return to a similar example I used before, you’re prepared to say with a straight face that it’s damaging to a child’s independence to buy them an ice cream cone for making an A on their big math test or give them a time-out punishment for hitting another child in class.  Maybe it’s “damaging” to their sense of freedom in some big abstract way, but the purpose is to teach them how to successfully navigate life, not to impede them, and it’s not anything millions of other parents and teachers aren’t doing all across the globe.  That is to say, it isn’t unique.

So yes, AFO was raising Shigaraki to be a Villain, but no mentor alive has raised a child without intending them to be something, even if that something is just “a functioning member of society.”  AFO’s goal may be different, but his methodology (again excluding the hands) is not, so if the claim is that Shigaraki’s choices aren’t free because of that methodology, despite the numerous instances of AFO openly, vocally encouraging Shigaraki to make his own free choices, couldn’t you also say the same of literally anyone else who was raised using those same childrearing methods?

This question is even in the series, sorta: during the training camp attack, Mr. Compress observes, “You kids today have your values chosen for you.”  Most of the characters in the series act according to the morals they were raised by, without ever attempting to actively evaluate or interrogate those morals.  They may be encouraged to find their own paths, but that encouragement comes with the unspoken assumption that their “path” should be a healthy and law-abiding one, whereas Shigaraki’s path will be that of a dangerous criminal—but one who’s still being encourage to choose what kind of dangerous criminal he wants to be!

I’m perfectly willing to concede that AFO raising Shigaraki to be the Symbol of Fear put more restraints on him than e.g. Jirou or Ochaco’s parents encouraging their daughters to pursue their own passions, but I’m very unconvinced that that disparity is so sharp that we could say Shigaraki has no free will at all while the heroic characters enjoy total self-determination.  Hell, in the early series, AFO has a freer hand with Shigaraki than All Might does with Deku!  All Might has some very specific ideas about the kind of “narrative” Deku needs to establish in order to inherit the Pillar position All Might wants for him—he has to keep the power secret, he has to win the Sports Festival in a blowout, he has to appear confident at all times, and so on.  All Might shakes the mentality eventually, leaving Deku freer to write his own story, but the same can be said of AFO being arrested and leaving Shigaraki to develop on his own.

Want a better parallel for AFO’s impact on Tomura’s developmental years?  Let’s look at Shouto, instead.  He was conceived and raised by Endeavor for a very specific purpose, and Endeavor was way more domineering about it than AFO was!  Does that mean Endeavor deprived Shouto of free will?  Or was he just worse at predicting how his child would respond to any given stimuli than AFO?

Shouto gets rebellious and lashes out and makes the decisions he does because of the abuse he suffers and his feelings about the parents perpetuating that abuse: can we really say, then, that he’s acting of his own free will in a way Shigaraki is not?  Does AFO having a better understanding of human nature than Endeavor inherently make Shigaraki less capable of defining his own sort of Villainy than Shouto is of defining his own Heroism?   Shouto, after all, became a Hero rather than deciding on literally any other career path; can we thus say he had no choice in what he became?  If he “chose” to be a Hero because Endeavor was pressuring him to be one but also because he wanted to become someone who could reassure others, can we not say that Shigaraki “chose” to be a Villain because AFO was pressuring him to be one but also because he wanted to avenge himself on the society that abandoned him?

AFO may have engineered the circumstances that led to Shigaraki wanting that revenge, but Endeavor is equally responsible for the circumstances that led to Shouto wanting to become “a Hero who can reassure others.”  Does AFO doing so knowingly while Endeavor does so unintentionally change the level of agency expressed by their respective children?

Would an omniscient God knowing what decision a certain human will make when faced with any given problem mean the human is less free in themselves to make that decision?

You see how deep this question winds up taking us into the philosophical weeds?  Let’s refocus somewhat.  Up to this point, I’ve been talking exclusively about Shigaraki’s path as a Villain and whether or not he made any choices of his own when walking that path.  While AFO—and Deku, for that matter—certainly try to reduce Shigaraki to a helpless infant incapable of free choice, one of the things that’s so compelling about Shigaraki is that he’s not wholly defined by his Villainy.

Think back to that big collage we get in Chapter 419 as the background for Shigaraki’s psyche shattering.  All of the images in those fragments are people Shigaraki has harmed.[4] Indeed, with a few exceptions, we see them right in the moment that Shigaraki is inflicting that harm!  I’ve seen this moment explained on many occasions as indicative of Shigaraki feeling a sudden surge of realization and guilt, that he hurt all those people and it didn’t even mean anything because AFO set him up for all of it.  That reading never quite sat right with me, though.  Shigaraki is not a character prone to expressing much in the way of guilt, and him suddenly doing so feels like…  Well, it feels like Woobie Tenko to me, a construct I loathe.

4: Give or take Gigantomachia, who I don’t think Shigaraki ever actually managed to put a scratch on, despite six weeks of dedicated efforts to do so.

As an alternative reading, then, consider that moment being framed as “all the choices Shigaraki thinks he made that were actually just him following the path AFO set for him.”  And if we read it that way, then it’s very notable what isn’t there.

All his scenes bonding with the League.  Taking and then returning Twice’s mask.  Telling Toga that going to Overhaul is for everyone’s sake.  Playing video games with Spinner.  Telling Dabi he looks forward to meeting his recruit.  Remembering Mr. Compress wanting sushi.

Expand the lens out.  Also not included in that collage are any scenes of him working with Kurogiri, trading quips with Ujiko, or winning over Gigantomachia.

Expand again: talking with Overhaul about the alliance, the bar meeting with Stain, accepting Re-Destro’s pledge of loyalty, addressing his new army?  No, no, no, and no.

I said in the post I linked before that even Shigaraki’s affection for the League is suspect based on the order of events around the reveal, but it’s telling that when AFO bellows to a shattering Shigaraki that all that he is was granted by AFO himself, the scene conspicuously omits any and every interaction that involves Shigaraki meeting with others in a non-violent way.  If we’re meant to believe that he is a creature who can only destroy, one who never made a choice of his own, those are some pretty serious omissions!

It’s not as if Shigaraki’s relationships with the League and other Villains couldn’t be attributed to AFO’s influence!  It’s AFO’s resources, after all, that allow Shigaraki to make enough of a splash that he starts attracting other Villains’ attention to begin with.  If AFO taught Shigaraki to value his subordinates,[5] it might have only been so Shigaraki could become even more determined to be a Villain because the friends he made were equally harmed by Hero Society as Shigaraki believed himself to have been.  There’s practically no decision Shigaraki makes that the reader determined to take AFO at his word couldn’t say he was groomed into making.

5: Which AFO himself very much does not, give or take how much you think that might have been different for Early Series AFO, with his stirring lines about the nice view All Might must be enjoying, standing atop the mountain of bodies of AFO’s allies.

But if that was intended to be the case, why aren’t the League in that collage, or the scene preceding it?  Why not call out even the aspect of Shigaraki that seems most genuinely and truly his, if everything he is was decided for him in advance?

And that takes me back around to whether or not AFO is supposed to be read as correct.  The conspicuous absence of the League and Shigaraki’s other allies in the “all that you are” collage would suggest AFO is wrong, but if AFO is supposed to be wrong, why doesn’t anyone ever tell him so?  God knows Deku’s not shy about pushing back against Villain statements he disagrees with!

To me, it feels like Horikoshi couldn’t bring himself to let AFO claim ownership of that aspect of Shigaraki.  Horikoshi wrote those friendships, those alliances; he has to know what they mean for Shigaraki, as a person and as a character.  The fact that he doesn’t allow AFO to retroactively poison them says to me that Horikoshi doesn’t want to let AFO have that win.  He can’t have Deku or Shigaraki call AFO out, either, though, because then AFO would be obviously wrong, and that would undermine Deku’s (presumed) decision to just go ahead and murder Shigaraki because he’s an entity that can only destroy, just as AFO intended him to be.

So instead we wind up with a story that says AFO is right while furtively, guiltily leaving out the many, many puzzle pieces that prove the complete image of Shigaraki Tomura is something other than what AFO describes.

Well, I’m not obligated to follow the story’s lead on that.  When I look at the whole picture of Shigaraki’s life, his relationship with AFO, the friendships he made, the allies he gained, I see a character who very much did have choices and, particularly in the stretch between Kamino and the first war, made them with just as much freedom as any other character in the series.  Shigaraki’s baseline morality being influenced by AFO does not limit his free will any more than Deku’s morality being influenced by Inko and All Might limits his.  Shigaraki’s circumstances being set in place by AFO does not limit his ability to make free choices once he’s out from under AFO’s direct supervision anymore than the same could be said of Shouto relative to Endeavor.

Summing it all up, I would really only buy that Shigaraki never made a choice of his own in the sense that AFO set up every choice he made, so all those choices were made under false pretenses.  But even this, the story fails to bear out thanks to scenes like AFO giving Tenko/Tomura freedom to roam around basically unsupervised, and AFO’s (as well as Kurogiri’s, insomuch as Kurogiri had the ability to steer Shigaraki towards AFO’s preferred outcomes) later arrest. AFO can't set up every choice Shigaraki makes when AFO cedes supervision of the situations Shigaraki encounters!

The question of free will versus determinism is a thorny one; it’s very normal to be hugely uncomfortable with the idea that free will does not exist, and everyone in the world is basically a highly sophisticated robot whose programming is determined by a combination of their life experiences and their physical makeup.  But if free will does exist—independent of genetics and life experience, and not fatally curtailed by the basic tactics adults use to prepare children for the world ahead of them—then yes, I think Shigaraki has as much or nearly as much free will as anyone, and AFO's claims to the contrary are just him being self-serving and inflating his own influence.

Thanks for the ask!

[that-spider-fan-over-there]

BNHA 430: This wasn’t very “My Hero Academia” of you I’ll be honest—

Okay, where do I begin? Uh. So the story reached its conclusion. Congratulations, and all the best to Horikoshi-san for telling the story he wanted to tell for ten years, loved the characters, the little world he created after the cancellation of his previous works, I will cherish it for the rest of my life.

... but in my opinion: the last seven chapters were so bad- I don't think I can see this ending as anything other than a contradiction of what we were shown. Like, I thought we'd get a twist, everyone would be fine, something would change. I'm wearing the clown shoes already.

So, I'm just gonna treat this as a normal chapter, and not a final one, because I'll be here for days if I open this can of worms, which, I will not lie, is very bad (I'll open it at some point, not now.) I'm posting this on the.. 6th? Because apparently there's an announcement in the 5th and I don't wanna spoil the fun.

So, uh, under the read more are my thoughts on the ending, be warned I'm very, very negative about it.

*sigh* Oh boi, how killing the League made this go from an "underwhelming" to a "tone-deaf" chapter- I mean. Jesus fuck, leaving things open-ended don't erase the fact they can't make a single appearence to prove me wrong. And if they were alive, the last five chapters (and eight years!) were a waste of emotions and keeping them hidden was a stupidly cruel move.

Funny, the narration is "people aren't equal but it's because of these differences that people find common ground to get along"- THE VILLAINS WERE KILLED OFF FOR BEING DIFFERENT BRO WHAT DO YOU MEAN- "if lending a hand and caring is being a hero then we all became the greatest heroes". Izuku, whatever you're drinking, I'm taking it and drinking it all by myself. You may have cared (which I can't even say for certain anymore). But Tenko died. On accident. Because you gave him OFA.

I liked the "Midoriya-Sensei" part. For 5 seconds. It's fitting, he loves learning stuff, he's good with kids... until you say "it's only because his embers are gone". Then why use it as a tease for seven chapters only to just get rid of them at the end? Is running to Ochako really the last we get to see him use it? Not even as a part-time hero? (not that it matters at the end-)

Ragdoll works with the WWP, Tsukuachi was head strategist in the final battle, Hawks is the (H)PSC president, Aizawa is Aizawa. Why wasn't Izuku hired at an agency? Intelligence was a huge part of his character, yet the moment he was fully Quirkless again, he had to leave? Men truly aren't created equal...

"Cursed power", "blessing", "special" — the only thing special about OFA was being haunted by a guy whose brother was insane enough to hunt it down for generations. A Quirk's a Quirk; having multiple people/powers in one body isn’t special, Tokoyami and Shoto exist. Izuku was supposed to make it special using it on his terms. But I guess "meant to save, not kill" was a lie, as eight out of ten people who had it died. Nine out of eleven, counting BNHA: HR. Tenko died because his body couldn't handle the Quirk, but I guess Izuku isn't gonna think about any of it? Katsuki was right, I guess. OFA is a curse.

Spinner wrote a book (not a comic, guess he took offense to Izuku. Fair, actually). Mr. Compress got a panel, but no real mention of the LoV? They broke the status quo for months (in-universe), and after all of that, nothing changes? Did Spinner know about Tenko, how he became Tomura? And the people who will read it and pull an MLA? TomurAFO had followers, now he's martyr a lá Re-Destro. I’m hoping Spinner didn’t commit suicide like Destro did.

Ochako’s expanding Quirk Counseling. Reform’s implied (it only said expansion), but Himiko still became what Curious wanted her to be: A cautionary tale. And I’m still asking how Ochako knows Himiko what went through, she only told Ochako she was hated because of her Quirk and how she loves. I wanna think she’s reforming it, but nothing else changed, why should I think she’s the exception? She might literally just think Himiko didn't get help, that's a cruel irony.

(At least she's seen as a hero on her rights… even if it took 429 chapters, messy writing, her face looking like rubber, and still being a girl recognized as a "caretaker", not a kickass hero).

Shoji's travelling through Japan to solve discrimination and got a prize for it. No foundations or mentions of Spinner being the main reason he did it, just "standing atop those who rose up eight years ago", just solving it peacefully, you sure are, buddy. Like, I'm sure you are being successful but how exactly are you solving this? I mean, you "solved" the hospital fight by fighting Spinner with Koda- Oh wait, time constraints, we can't elaborate how. I'm rolling my eyes

Shirakumo showed the noumu state could've been reversed, yet Katsuki, who never killed someone aside from AFO (and that guy was gonna die anyway), fatally exploded him. I hoped it was a misunderstood panel but no. He died because he wanted to save Tenko. Even fucking Gran Torino was alive by the end of this. Why.

I think Shoto is the only main character I’m not really having a problem with (Ochako's ending required Himiko for it to feel somewhat complete. Sorry, Ochako). I’m weirded out that they mentioned the billboard using the guy whose life was ruined by it as an example, but other than that, he’s doing fine. Wish we saw him talking to his siblings though. But alas. No mention of Fuyumi and Natsuo. And Rei's with Endeavor. Fuck I take it back Todofam still deserved better.

Inko got so sidelined when Mitsuki and Masaru were in 424 for half a chapter, by the way. Just one panel for her, the protagonist's mother.

Schedules not aligning is one thing (I get it, my friends and I can't align ours anymore), but Class A not opening an agency together? They survived the same two wars. And you're telling me they wouldn't say "WE'RE WORKING TOGETHER AND TAKING MIDORIYA WITH US"? Also, where’s the "world where heroes have time to spare" when they look so busy? Were they understaffed or working as celebrities? (if someone says it was for the suit I will point out to the three nepo babies of Class A + Momo's Quirk, Katsuki’s a dumbass if he forgot that detail).

We wasted pages on a kid that can throw plates from his hair. To tell him he can be a hero. Coming from the guy who had to stop working as a hero when he lost OFA. I'm not taking this parallel seriously.

I wish Izuku wasn't in "everything’s fine" mode until the end. We're really gonna leave him at "implied" mode, not confirm if his mental state's fine? Being open and emotional was an appealing part of him and now we just get “Yeah that’s just how it is”.

This one's petty and irrational, I know, but since I'm letting some of the steam out: I hate Izuku's new design; face scars (the constant "HE FAILED" reminder makes my eye twitch and I wish that was a joke, but also so many characters in BNHA got face scars, it doesn't even stand out), "perfect tie", normal formal attire- where's the character highlights? The things that make Izuku stand out?

But hey: He gets to be a hero again! Not with skills, heart, intelligence, strength, in spite of Quirklessness. No, he has an Iron Man suit! That Class A paid billions for. The government should be paying the child soldiers- sorry, Class A and B (and Shiketsu and Ketsubutsu) instead, but all they get is a pat on the back. If the suit breaks down, hurts or kills him while in it? I'll laugh (Hatsume and Melissa worked on it? Oh it's gonna happen, I'm hoping). And Toshinori, what happened to him, did he hit his head when he landed on that building!?

Went from: Smiles cover his fear and reassure people, believed saving is about saving body and soul, wanted to help Tenko, only didn't because Gran Torino said it wasn't a good idea. Disliked people were being heroes for fame and not because it's the right thing to do, only used support items as reinforcement and a precaution, never as a full solution, even Iron Might was so he’d have a chance to fight, not a solution.

To: If Tenko died smiling, it wasn't resignation, he was saved, even though he died. Didn't care AFO killed the Shimura - his mentor's - bloodline. Is fine with the billboards existing, even though it caused things like the Todoroki plotline. Now he's giving Izuku a suit, when the last time he did it himself, it didn't save him and his spine was almost snapped? Dude, what?

Also full disclosure, I thought he was paralyzed, but I guess he just had a bad back. Let's not discuss the trauma of almost being snapped in half and feeling your bones break so bad you set a record of how many screws were used, I guess.

... I hated BKDK's conclusion. It's actually so laughable how much I hate it. If it had another outcome, I'd probably be overjoyed as a shipper. But look at this mess:

Thematically, Tenko wasn't rescued, it wasn't a perfect victory because AFO still got away with what he did to him. Save to win, win to save were just nice words. "The End of an Era and The Beginning"? Nothing changed in the world they live in, and they don't stand out among other heroes (these are AM’s successors. And they aren't even important. How.) What new era is this, really?

Their resolutions, relationship rebuild? Offscreen, but Katsuki was the one with the Iron Man suit idea for Izuku and apparently that compensates for it. Because he’s the one who can solve all of Izuku’s problems now, not motivate him to be better anymore. It wasn’t even Izuku’s idea, it was Class A, and sure it’s a nice (condescending) gesture. We’ve seen Toshinori barely come out alive even with one. That's a support item for a reckless little shit who will get himself killed.

Izuku barely batted an eye to any of the things he went through - losing his arms and/or OFA? Seeing Spinner's breakdown? Lady Nagant!? Katsuki or Tenko dying because of Izuku and OFA!? SOME INTROSPECTION?! IT’S BEEN OVER 100 CHAPTERS SINCE YOU’VE BEEN THE EMOTIONAL MC—

Katsuki's insecurities were pointless by the way! Izuku's empathy and heart never mattered, a Quirk was more important to be a hero in the end. BULLIED HIM FOR NOTHING BUDDY- like. Shouldn't have done it at all, but now his character development means nothing because his previous beliefs were the right ones. Changing for the better was pointless. Like Twice's death. Or Katsuki’s own death, since “Control Your Heart” meant nothing as well.

Izuku still remembers Tenko, but has he done anything about it? No one wants to remember him, Himiko or Touya. Spinner's book won't be taken seriously except for Tenko's followers, Mr. Compress was sidelined, Twice's death was pointless. They didn't change society, they've returned to the status quo. Pointless as Izuku losing his arms.

That fucking suit- Wow, he really couldn't be a Quirkless hero, the casual rivalry was just erased for an easy way out of their consequences, there's no catching up because Katsuki paid for Izuku a way to be a hero. Izuku doesn't get there because he still believes Quirks make a hero. This isn't heartwarming or romantic or whatever, Katsuki just proved he also didn't believe Izuku in the end.

And it ends with Izuku seeing Tenko's... Ghost? Hallucination? Vestige? I guess we’ll never know, because Izuku’s following his dreams again! Let's ignore he's doing this during class hours and he definitely should be in UA but who cares, he probably quit, we'll never know. Aside for the BKDK/DKBK fics, being a teacher was clearly a inferior choice for him and he can't do both ignore Aizawa and Present Mic look at him being the world's greatest hero!

It just took 1 year of trauma, scars, following on his mentor's mistakes, losing the thing that "actually" made him be a hero, having the first (Katsuki) and the last (Tenko) people he tried to save dying because of his existence (one literally by his hands), proving anyone can be one! By ignoring the guilt of those you failed, give hands and sparing your thoughts, having superpowers and/or connections who'll give you a suit! And if they still "act out"? Then they deserved death no matter the valid points they've had and you gotta play jury judge executioner. Unless they decide to be quiet like a good entitled citizen.

Fuck this shit I swear- You could’ve had a BKDK proposal with a double spread handhold, and I'd still think Izuku's ending isn't earned. His "happy ending"— actually. BKDK crumbs are the fandom's consolation prize for this ending. I feel cheated out my OTP (like. I'm shipping the version of them in my head, not the canon one 412-onwards because it got worse from there-)

A story about hope bent itself over to give the protagonist an unearned happy ending, when it said it was for every character who wants to connect to that hope, who wants to give that hope. Izuku went from "wanting to be a beacon of hope and save people" to "talk about beacons of hope, but in the end, others are doing this better than you. You had none of the willpower to be one." He's not hope or unity. Act 3!Izuku is just a plot device, I feel nothing for his ending other than irritation, and I hate it because he was my favourite character. Lol, a very useless one in the end.

So. Yeah, those are my thoughts about the ending. I think. I don't know if these are all of them. I feel horrible about hating it, but I've sat on this chapter for days and right now, not a lot can make me like it, especially with the timeskip, which made this "open ending" a rushed and incomplete mess. If you disagree with me, honestly, that is very fair. I'm glad for you if you liked the ending. I'm just disappointed, and wanted to share my opinions. (and I do have more stuff to say about it but I think I've been negative enough)

But for the weeks I spent hoping this wouldn't slap a classic shonen ending in this catasthrophic mess and for making me feel like a dumbass after what we got in the end: Everything after 410 that isn't 421 and 422 is non-existent to me, this epilogue was a freaking waste.

Thank you for reading.

(EDIT.: Fixed some spelling mistakes and added a few more things because I can keep going on how bad this ending is. Also to clear stuff up: I am still a BKDK shipper. But only until 412, anything after that? Yeah, no, keep that shit away from me lol.)

[bibibbon]

MHA chapter 430

Finally the last chapter has arrived and ... Well it's underwhelming at best.

I already knew I wasn't going to like this chapter considering how things went in previous arcs but I just feel underwhelmed and indifferent.

So Izuku loses his quirk and then becomes a quirkless hero. I don't know this seems so.... Underwhelming no that's not the word so bleak, gloomy and sad?!?! I also hate the concept of iron Izuku with a passion!!!

Ochako starts a new quirk counselling campaign. This is good but it took that long?!?! I guess hawks was incompetent

All might and izuku parallels/foils will be forever going and I love that izuku used his analysis skills for the kid and I suppose hori tried to go with everyone can be a hero one way or another because the title of a hero isn't just based on the job heroics but how someone helps and saves people but I think that failed in execution.

I sense a change to momo's costume design. I like it

Wait so even ✨I can't stop twinkling✨ yuuga became a hero?!?! I thought he dropped out of the hero course and went to do something else.

Wait didn't shigaraki say he wanted to destroy everything??!? Shigaraki's goal never actually developed into a proper one where he wanted to destroy society and the aspects that hurt him. Well it kinda of did since he wanted to kill all might/destroy the pillar of society but that wouldn't cure the corruption and all that hurt others and shigaraki so why is Hori using it as a way to make it like shigaraki destroyed and izuku rebuilt?!?!

Kota is going to UA!!! Eri is going to a different high school in general

The leauge got a horrible end and the only thing we do know is that spinner wrote a book, compress is out of prison and read the book and that's it.

Well best thing that came out of this chapter was that

No ships were confirmed!!!

Bakugo didn't become number one and was just eluded to dropping down the ranks for his aggressive behaviour

Izuku managed to beat the fast food worker allegations and became a teacher and a pro hero

I think horikoshi forgot about izukus father but there was no point in seeing a deadbeat like that anyway.

[pikahlua]

sometimes I feel like I can’t stand criticism of bnha, and then I read critique from people like you who actually enjoy the story and think about what it did well and what it didn’t—and I usually don’t mind it so much. so anyway, I guess I mean to say, thank you for participating in fandom from a place of affection

Thank you. I'm interested in honest criticism, and it's hard to take criticism seriously when it comes from a place of bad faith. I can tell a lot of people feel betrayed, but it was so predictable they would feel that way, because most people chose to back themselves into corners rather than stay open to the idea that things weren't as they believed. I can't take seriously any criticisms like "Horikoshi is a bad writer because he wrote something I didn't like," which makes it sound like they think Horikoshi somehow tripped and stumbled into this ending by accident. I also can't take seriously claims that the story failed in its themes or messaging that then go on to describe themes/messages that don't connect to the plot at all, like "failure to fully address the child soldiers aspect" when the story never brings anything like that up as a point it's interested in tackling.

I'm far more interested in talking about the actual fundamentals of writing. If you think the ending's rushed, give examples. If you think the ending's incoherent, give examples. If you think the ending stands in contrast to the major themes or messages of the story, give examples. Otherwise you're not giving criticism, you're just ranting your feelings--which is OKAY, but it's not anything I'm interested in reading about. Your personal feelings don't sway me. Your logic has a better chance of swaying me.

My criticisms will come when I'm confident in my reading of the story. At this time, I'm still puzzling out what the ending means to me, and I'd say I'm about 70% there. As a preview, the things I'm most likely to critique negatively are the order of the major story beats, especially in the final battle, and the decision to estrange the main characters from each other for so long it dampens the emotional impact of major moments because we don't get to see the characters we care most about react.

[commander-revan]

So, with this long and agonizing break between chapters, I decided to read through Horikoshi's other works to get a sense of how he's ended his stories before and to see how he's treated his other series antagonists.

And after reading through everything, I'm now feeling more hopeful than I was before that Tomura and the rest of the LoV are going to survive to the end, and that they won't be left to rot in a prison either.

Starting with Oumagadoki Zoo, his first actual series, about a zoo with a director cursed to look like a rabbit that can transform the other animals in the zoo into humans. The main character, Hana, starts working there and decides to help them make it a world renowned zoo so that the curse on the director will be lifted.

Throughout the series they encounter other cursed humans that lead their own respective groups, one at an aquarium and another at a circus, however unlike the Zoo's director they're self-serving, cruel, and willing to use and toss away their subordinates once they've served their purpose in order to break their own curses.

But at the end of it all, after they've been defeated, they're invited to stay back at the zoo, and are given a second chance.

One of them even starts breaking their curse at the end, because love and caring for others is ultimately what can turn them human again.

Barrage's antagonist, Black, feels a lot closer to home in his motivations. Reflecting the same disappointment in society that the LoV feels in My Hero. He was a loyal soldier to the king fighting against corruption, until he starts seeing the kingdom becoming more corrupt over time due to war.

His initial desire to change things for the better became warped to the point where he only wanted to destroy. The same thing that happened to the League's motivations.

But, in the end, instead of executing him for all the harm he caused, they decide to let him atone by contributing to society in a way only he can.

Going back to Horikoshi's first published work, the Tenko one-shot, while Tenko's not quite a villain in that series, he does still accidentally kill his mother with his abilities, but he really only wants to destroy weapons so warriors won't exist anymore. Which echoes Tomura's desire to rid the world of heroes. But his mother's dying wish was for him to let go of hate, and find a way to use his power for good.

At the end of the story he finally realizes what his mother wanted for him, learns that a true warrior is one that protects others, and is able to find a new purpose in life.

With all of that taken into account, how in Horikoshi's stories the villains are allowed to live and are given another chance at life to find new purpose, whether they even want that or like the protagonists or not, I think Tenko will return and the rest of the League of Villains will survive in the end as well.

Horikoshi's stories always seem to be about hope, the connections we make, and how those bonds can change us for the better despite what happened in the past, and I don't see why that would change at the end of My Hero when those themes have always been so present throughout the entire series. I guess we'll find out in a few days, but I believe Tomura and the LoV will make it through this, and be given a chance to atone, to start over and find new purpose and help society change so what happened to them doesn't happen again.

I'll end this off with what Horikoshi wrote about Tenko when it was published, because the last sentence seems more relevant than ever now.

[diableasura]

So, MHA is over-

-and the real villain was shonen jump's abusive schedule.

I genuinely believe that horikoshi fell out of love with this manga. He wrote himself into a corner half way through the story that he couldn't find a way out of and shonen jump's ruthless expectations made him desperate to rush towards the finish line. I hope now that the manga is over horikoshi is able to rest and that his health improves in the future.

Now, as for the conclusion of the story.

I also fell out of love with this manga over a year ago, when i realised it wasn't actually going to address any of the many many issues with hero society that had been established early on. But the possibility of any of the villains dying never crossed my mind. I mean, it would be so stupid, after going through so much effort at making them sympathetic, to just kill them off right?? And yet here we are.

I ended up really disliking shigaraki, because he was barely a character at the end of it and his fans were very annoying, but i always assumed that because deku (you know, the mc) wanted to save him, then he would be saved. It's astounding that the main character catastrophically failed at what he set out to do and yet the story bent itself over backwards to try and pretend this wasn't the case.

Also many people have already mentioned it but MHA's handling of abuse ended up being so vile. The fact that rei, who was raped twice by endeavor (if you disagree you're wrong, read the fucking manga again) is seen pushing his wheelchair around eight fucking years later is rage inducing. And don't get me started on takami "the ranking system was useful to me in particular so it deserves to stay, never mind that it made a man abuse his entire family for more than a decade" keigo. What an atrocious end to his character, and the most tragic part is that so many of his fans don't even want to recognize that his arc was ruined and that he was reduced to being endeavors hype man. Actually disgusting what hawks ended up being.

Dabi was the only reason i even glanced at this trainwreck of a story ocasionally, and even though his last scene was dissapointing and obviously ableist and very offensive towards victims of neglect, at least we had that little moment of catharsis with shoto, plus his death wasn't confirmed in the story. It gives his ending some freedom from the depressing state the villains were left in at the end.

TL;DR My Hero Academia ended up being surprisingly depressing and we never saw any significant changes in its world, we were only told about them.

3/10 and those 3 points are all because of the todorokis. would not recomend.

(Touya Todoroki's character was a 10/10 tho, i'll always treasure you my son).

[hamliet]

the notion that bnha is pro authoritarianism or social hierarchies is nonsensical not to mention acting like being pro cop is bad

Err... BNHA is pretty pro-authoritarian. I actually find it pretty disturbing. And that's even if the story turns out with the League alive at the end.

As for being pro-cop--cops are human individuals, yes. But people have in recent years in multiple countries (including Japan, by the way) protested against cops being used as tools to maintain social hierarchies wherein people who are not part of that hierarchy suffer for daring to want to be treated as human beings. When I say I'm anti-cop, I'm not saying I hate anyone on the basis of being a cop. But I am saying that the ways in which the police force are used in many countries does societal harm. Critical thinking, yo.

Honestly I feel like this whole story (BNHA) and fans reactions throughout (especially when compared to other stories) demonstrate how people are not using critical thinking. And that can have real world consequences, though it doesn't have to.

I just find it weird that people are okay with a story where the ruling class is always right and always wins. Like... how have they not? I mean, even stories that end up suggesting the ruling class isn't entirely wrong or show flaws in rebellions generally don't go hard on the authoritarianism. But Horikoshi... is doing this.

The whole thing is so weird to me personally, too, because Horikoshi's wishy-washy framing and switches in coding generally seem to be the result of him caring, deeply, what his audience thinks and feels. Too much, really, but it also seems like he genuinely doesn't want to hurt people. Except this ending--even if Tenko does reappear as New Character and saves the League--is the exact opposite. (If Tenko doesn't reappear, then everything I'm about to say is multiplied by a thousand.)

It's catering to mean-spiritedness, and while I do understand fiction isn't reality, the side he's catering to now is making the argument that fictional crimes are real crimes and thus must meet real penalties.

I can play this game too.

If people are gonna make those arguments, I'm going to say they're the problem and the reason we have wars, genocides, assaults, and more.

If you ever want a cycle of violence/abuse to stop, someone has to accept that they've taken the last punch. Not keep going until the other side is WIPED OUT.

If you equate justice with equalizing losses, then you are enacting Dazai from BSD's statement on justice: justice is a weapon. You can never heal by it.

If you want to heal, you have to stop fighting and bandage wounds. And maybe you are too injured to do the bandaging. That's okay. But someone else can, and if you try to stop them on the premise of "but no one bandaged my wounds" you're a bitter person who makes the world a worser place.

If you say a tragedy is the story, sure. But you have to set up tragedies from the start. See, Attack on Titan, which's ending I love. It began with someone crying and an ominous message to the future. You don't set up your first chapter with "this is the story of how I become the greatest hero!" spend 200+ chapters criticizing hero society and have the hero fail at the goal he'd been repeating for 200 chapters in the end and join hero society and still think you wrote a story that delivered in what you promised. You failed.

Either you wrote a tragedy and are trying to pass it off as a happy story (see how well that works usually) or your understanding of a happy story is pretty much just fascist propaganda. And yes, BNHA does have fascist themes at this point. Way more than AoT ever did. But they have smiles and cute frog girls so it's not nearly as dangerous, right? (sarcastic).

The thing is, this is where the lack of critical thinking comes in. While I've seen people talk a bit about how BNHA seems like copaganda, it's taking things much, much further than other stories usually do and into territory where I'm frankly disturbed.

Yes, BNHA started out as a clever critique of hero society and of the very idea it's now seeming to uphold: that the human instinct (which is universal in real life to) to idolize people leads to a lack of humanity for those who do not have those traits we idolize, whether their fault or not, and for people to become villains in response. But not only has it failed to deliver on this premise by upholding society (hey, Naruto and to a degree Tokyo Ghoul also failed to completely change society), it's gone so far as to endorse what it previously criticized.

It's more akin to Game of Thrones Season 8 upholding racism, sexism, and classism, than it is to Naruto or Tokyo Ghoul. GoT ended with a joke about prioritizing brothels being open, as if the misogyny was actually a good thing and not what caused a lot of the problems. There's no critical lens here. It's just like "hey, there was no point in struggling. Monarchies that abuse women, rah rah, let's go!"

BNHA seems to be going a similar route. Deku's murder of Shigaraki, Ochaco's crying over Toga, the way Shouto reaches out to Touya--it's sad, but not framed as something the audience should see as a wrong done on behalf of heroes. In fact, the heroes are not criticized at all. Frickin' Edgeshot, whom no one cares about, is fine. All of them are fine. Their statuses are generally fine, too, except maybe Enji's and even then he's not like going to face the fate of the League and die alone. His family still supports him. Hawks is completely fine and framed positively. His regret over Twice is pure lipservice. Deku really did just need to kill Shigaraki, and all his "I want to save" spiel, much like Ochaco's, is for naught. He just needed to learn to grow up and get in line.

Even if Tenko comes back, and even if Deku like... somehow knew this would happen via vestiges or whatnot (let's be real, he will if this is the case), and the message is just that society isn't ready to move forward, but at least they can live, then... I don't know, y'all. That's still depressing. I don't see how Deku is a hero for that, much less the greatest number one hero. He decided to be a hero at the cost of his own integrity, and if this was a gritty story about the realistic struggle of living in a capitalistic society where ethics are always compromised that would make sense, but... it's not. Even until the final battle, the characters were endorsing idealism.

At the very least, Horikoshi didn't deliver on his promise in the first chapter. At the very worst, he's endorsing fascist ideals.

Like, I'm sorry, but "kill this person for the good of society," the violent upholding of oppressive societal hierarchies, the importance of being a cop hero and the way the military hero brutalities are worshipped, the way heroes are lauded and everyone who doesn't get in line with this is punished, went from being criticized to being endorsed. Those are all central elements of fascism.

The little guy deserves to lose, but, but Deku is the little guy, so it can't be! Except it can be. Because it's actually pretty common irl even to trot out examples of people like Candace Owens to be like "hey, you can't possibly say Republicans are racist!"

And don't you dare say "but Japanese culture makes it unreasonable to expect a non retributive justice!" The Japanese people are not a monolith. Not to mention... Naruto, Bungou Stray Dogs, Monster, Hunter x Hunter, Yu Yu Hakusho, Mawaru Penguindrum, Oshi no Ko, Dragon Ball, Attack on Titan, and Tokyo Ghoul all say hi.

I hated the TG ending, and still hate it, but I'm not going to say that it upheld the CCG as right all along because it didn't. BNHA thus far is doing that with hero society. And even if the answer is for the League be revived and to leave society or whatever, then how can we be happy Deku is a part of this society? How can we root for him, or his classmates? Is he going to work from the inside to change it? Why wasn't that emphasized beforehand as a theme or struggle?

tl;dr Horikoshi has cooked his story no matter what he does now, and I don't think it's salvageable. Either way it has themes that are disturbing especially considering real world events across the globe, and that people should be more aware of instead of focusing solely on stories that have fascism and monsters in them but don't uphold it.