#would this work for other persona users who enter the metaverse? what if the shadow ops rocked up would their look change?

[princekirijo]

One of these days I'm gonna rant about the idea that the thieves' outfits represent "their idea of rebellion" and how I like interesting that concept is.

[raguna-blade]

So there’s plenty still a baking in the head space here as far as whatever interesting stuff is going down in Strikers (of note that’s quietly churning is the fact that the game is EXTREMELY similar to the original game series but just slightly tiny bit off in a bunch of ways which on one hand yes can be read as lazy and maybe even is, but on the other If i’m looking at stuff under the lens of intentional design choices the similarities and differences kinda start setting a lot of bells off in my head. Kudos for RGU for kinda beating that into my skull. Anyway), something I guess that I think is...Interesting?

Well yeah no it’s interesting and it’s plenty cheaty but I guess taking a gander at Kuon and then looking at Demiurge/Emma as her Shadow vs Sophia as her Persona of sorts is...An INTERESTING exercise, given Kuon doesn’t have a persona Explicitly.

Nor does she have a shadow. Now the metaverse isn’t like the World in the TV or The Midnight Hour, where you’re either a persona user, or you instantly convert to your shadow self, at least not that we’ve seen. Indeed, the evidence we have suggests that the Metaverse really can’t work like that, given that we’ve had 2 people enter and not instantly Shadow Out/Call up their persona (Although in the case of Zenkichi he absolutely DID summon his persona.)

But...Ok, so the argument is that Sophia is Kuon’s persona right? Demiurge her shadow. Not textually because they’re literally not, but functionally see?

Because both were created by her, and both function more or less exactly the same as a Persona and a Shadow. Where Demiurge tries to put away emotional thinking (and indeed by rights doesn’t seem to have any and any appeals to it functionally go “I understand the words you are saying but They’re irrelevant because FACTS and LOGIC dictate this is the best way forward) Sophia is earnestly trying to acquire that thinking because she already has the logic stuff down, but she understands that she doesn’t understand the emotional aspect and is trying to figure it out.

Which is precisely what they’re supposed to do! But the thing is Sophia (Gnostic) is basically the embodiment of wisdom. Enlightened wisdom, the kind of stuff that set’s your soul free beyond the bounds of just the material, the kind that basically set’s you to be a better person and become your best and truest self. Meanwhile the Demiurge (Gnostic) is basically a god who does wield absolute power in their field sure, but critically lacks knowledge of other spaces that should and would inform their field and arguably even lead to them doing a better job...Except that they explicitly reject those additional understandings because they believe they’re already there with what they do already have a perfect understanding of.

Which again, Straightforwardly what Sophia and Demiurge end up doing...Though on the wisdom front, it feels weird off hand to say that Sophia is Wise given that she doesn’t know jack about the heart right? But the thing there is that she RECOGNIZES that she doesn’t know anything there. She’s trying to gain that knowledge and hey that’s cool!

Sophia is, in a lot of ways, exactly the person that Kuon portrays herself to be. Bubbly, a bit stilted and awkward, but otherwise a sweet person who is TRYING to understand people and having a lot of trouble with it. She is, quite literally, a mask that Kuon wears to face the world in general attitude.

Demiurge however is all of urges thoughts and desires dialed up to a grotesque terrifying degree. Not just her faults, but her virtues too! I thouched on this ages ago with Chie from P4, but since a Shadow is all aspects of you including but especially the negative ones, hopped up to a terrifying degree, it has a tendency to paint even positive aspects as negative.

So...What are these aspects in Demiurge? Well, Consider Demiurge’s explicit objectives. They want to alleviate human suffering. They want to help people to make the best choices. They want to help people in general, and they further want to alleviate unnecessary suffering...Which are actually all extremely positive things, until you also have Kuon’s fundamental belief that she’s has a complete understanding of things to it’s absurd height (Pride is probably the correct word here) and then you have someone who want’s to help people but absolutely disregards anyone else that’s her.

Which ok...If that’s the case, and Sophia is functionally her persona (which thinking about it in this light paints the ending  as a bit less bitter sweet) it also explains why she freaked out so terribly. Because sophia more or less exists as “Yeah I got this but there’s things that I do not understand properly” it critically clashes with several of Kuon’s virtues and faults at the same time. Sophia want’s to help, and she was designed to better understand the heart, but as a machine at the time (The point of Created Being’s becoming “real” is probably a whole other discussion considering that’s happened a few times now with things that aren’t “real” across the series) that basically pinged every single one of her trauma buttons. Here’s this doll asking her what a heart is when Kuon believes herself to be a doll trying to understand a heart. That’s looking in the mirror and seeing several things that you don’t want at the same time because that question is a bit too direct for her at the time. She can’t parse it nor can she really even respond to it, thus the freak out. Even acknowledging that she doesn’t know is too much because at this point she thinks she’s more or less Right about things in general (that she doesn’t have a heart at all).

That is, Sophia out and out saying “Hey you have a Heart, could you explain this to me?” was a moment of ENTIRELY too real for Kuon who was at the time Fully of the belief, at least surface wise, that she didn’t have a heart...And that basically caused her to have a YOU’RE NOT ME moment from P4, now that I think about it, leading to the creation of Demiurge.

...Which honestly, I kinda want to look at the game under that view whenever i go through it again. Sophia’s her own person it’s true, but if we take her as a stand in for Kuon suddenly a bunch of events in game not only start telling Kuon’s story well in advance but also reflect how badly things must have gone because fundamentally Kuon is a lonely and depressed person.

Off the top of my head Sophia

-Finds herself alone and abandoned

-Believes herself to be merely an AI/Machine

-Is told by those who theoretically would have a better understanding (emma) that she’s a failure in someway for the feelings and thoughts she does have

-Want’s desperately to understand the feelings of herself and others

Which are all things that agree with Kuon. Even Sophia’s fundamental awkwardness in expression, and general sweetness, actually jive with her because Kuon’s a wreck sure, but she’s also like...really nice? Again, her objectives really aren’t malicious in the slightest, even if she ultimately goes about them in the worst way.

[shadowtarot]

CHM: Futaba hacks into Kirijo group network and using a similar but smaller Futaba Bomb (Shido and Alice's calling card) she and the thieves talk through their silhouette images via voice distortion to call out Mitsuru for the Kirijo groups' shady dealings, backed by Sho's statements. Mitsuru stalls so Fuuka can trace the signal and find them, while also trying to make peace with the thieves and debunk Sho's crap, as she did worry his contact with Ryuji might've sabotaged potential peace talks

Chariot’s Mystery Part 13

With the time of contacting Ms. Kirijo nigh, the Phantom Thieves get into positions within their bedrooms. 

Futaba begins to tear down the walls of the firewall bit by bit, replacing each image with TAKE YOUR HEART with the signature Phantom Thieves graphic on display. Fuuka gasps. “Mitsuru-san, the Phantom Thieves are hacking into our systems!” She begins to look over the whole thing. “I’m going to stall them, clearly this is their way of contacting us. ...and with what Akihiko told me last night, I’m going to have to work on clearing up Sho’s information. Fight back against their hacks before they can steal any data from us.” “R-Right!” Fuuka runs off to begin doing battle with Futaba’s Futaba Cannon Mini. “Mitsuru Kirijo” Joker’s silhouette appears on one monitor, as others begin to appear on more after. His voice is distorted to mask his identity, which Mitsuru notices.

“You must be the leader of the Phantom Thieves, yes?” Mitsuru folds her arms as she looks right where the eyes of her opponent should be. “Indeed. You may call me Joker. But I’m not here for a friendly chat. Your old group held in the High School that your family business owned, it holds a secret...does it not?” 

A second voice chips in, this time of Queen.

“Your group deals in Persona, in Shadows. Yet that business also deals with the experimentation on unwilling youths. How many have you victimized? How many more WILL you victimize?”

Mitsuru’s eyes focus hard, processing how best to speak. But the Phantom Thieves pick up on that.

“Your lack of response says more than you might realize, you know.” Fox states. 

“It’s true that Kirijo has a history...of Persona experimentation, but that all ceased once I took the reigns as the head of the company following my father’s sudden passing.”

“But you intend to cover up these mistakes instead of completely owning up to them.” Joker slams a hand down on his desk.

“Joker was it? The Psychotic Breakdown incidents that have been happening ...your group-”

“Don’t change the ‘effing subject!” Skull shouts.

Fuuka’s battle with the Futaba Cannon Mini seems to be hard going. “The code on this seems to be altering itself on the fly....their hacker must be some sort of wizzard....”

Mitsuru takes a deep breath. “You all know as well as I that the world of Persona and Shadows shouldn’t be brought to the general public’s eyes. Those exposed to that world see things that would seem unreal or horrifical.”

“That is true. ...but it still doesn’t explain the actions of your company.” Joker seems to be calming down slightly

“Sho Minazuki came into contact with one of your own, yes? He was indeed a victim of the company’s research, but he was moreso a victim of a betrayer within the company itself. He’s highly dangerous and unstable, and you cannot trust his words at face value.”

“And give me one reason why we should trust YOUR words over his.” Panther speaks up.

“You can’t, can you? Just like how I can’t one-hundred percent trust your words either. Your group may have exposed criminals and stopped all sorts of horrid from happening, but as it stands, your group is the most sought after group in all of Japan. Detectives all over would jump at any chance to unmask you...and all I need to do is share the IP Addresses where you all are contacting me from.” Mitsuru puts a hand on her hip. “Heh, try what you will Kirijo. It’d be futile.” Joker seems to smirk as he tilts his head slightly.

“Fuuka, begin the offensive!”

Fuuka’s battle with the Futaba Cannon Mini seems to be going her way, as the silhouettes of the Phantom Thieves being to flicker, only revealing more masking underneath.

“If you don’t want to be unmasked and fully cracked right here and now, I suggest you listen to what I have to say.” Mitsuru smirks. Joker is silent, as is the rest of the Phantom Thieves.

“No snarky comebacks? Or did we break your cute little voice filter?” The Ice Queen shakes her head. “Not quite. Very well...we’ll be willing to at least listen to you. On one condition: you must prove to us your innocence in the Psychotic Breakdown case.” Joker finally says. “How so?” Mitsuru seems intrigued. “You speak as if my group is the only lead you have right now.”

“We knew what originally caused the breakdowns, but that cause is long gone. For it to spring up again, only a group who studies Persona, Shadows and the Collective Unconscious as a whole could cause it to happen again. If you can prove you have no means to access the Metaverse within 24hrs...we will revoke our accusation. But if another case happens within that time frame, we WILL act as we so choose.”  Joker adjusts his glove. “So either we don’t enter this...Metaverse or....you’ll enter yourselves to fight us? Is that how I’m understanding it?” Mitsuru questions. “Take it how you want. But no matter what, justice will find you.” With that, communications are suddenly cut off and everything starts functioning like they should be. “Did...did they leave?” Fuuka asks. 

“...Metaverse huh? First it was a TV, now this. We have no means of accessing it, so all we can hope is that no incidents happen between now and when they next contact us.” Mitsuru then calls Akihiko. “I was contacted by the Phantom Thieves, their leader Joker doesn’t seem to trust a word I say. How are things on your end?” 

“Well I was told that prior to being on this current case, Inspector Hasegawa actually was working with the Phantom Thieves to solve the cases that happened over the Summer Break, meaning...”

“...meaning he knows their actual identities and might know how the Metaverse functions. Well...as far as he knows, you’re not connected to us. So just ask him about it without drawing attention as to why.” Mitsuru sighs. “There’s a chance we won’t get out of this without a bit of combat so be prepared.” “Between Sho and fighting some unknown team of Persona Users? We’ve got a lot on our plate right now.”

[twilightknight17]

So I fell asleep last night before I could make the post, but I got P5 Scramble yesterday and I’m having a blast so far. ^_^

I’m probably going to go through it the same way I did my Royal playthrough, so if you don’t want to be spoiled, don’t click through on these posts!

Before we start, I just want to mention that I don’t really know anything about the story. Somehow I’ve managed to avoid spoilers for an entire year except for a few small things.

I do know the identity of (who I assume is) Kyoto’s Jail Monarch. (Monarch is kind of a weird, formal word. I think I liked Jail King better. Or... Warden? Warden might have been the best choice.) ANYWAY, I think I know their identity, and by extension, I have a vague idea of why Shadow Joker exists. Other than that... You’re getting speculation and bullshit untainted by later plot revelations. XDDD

I did find it funny that when I booted the game up, I got a “No save data found, unable to start game” message. Like... no shit, PS4, it’s a brand new game. But the little starting tutorial fight was cool, and I liked the opening movie!

The police briefing was...interesting. It’s good to see them actually being somewhat logical? Like... considering everything that happened the year before, it makes sense that they’d assume this is the Thieves again. They have no way of knowing that there’s no way to access Palaces anymore. This isn’t really the Thieves MO, though. Except for the guy who confessed to document tampering. The author shredding his work for no reason and the guy streaking through the criminal justice headquarters don’t seem like they did anything wrong. Those seem more like psychotic breakdowns.

But... I guess we don’t know if the police ever knew anything about Black Mask, or if Shido was convicted on only real-world crimes and not the metaverse hits he ordered. I wonder if that’ll get elaborated on.

Zenkichi’s introduction was him laughing at the streaking guy in the middle of this Serious Police Meeting, so I think I’m gonna like him a lot. ^_^

Anyway, the “higher-ups” really want this case closed, according to “Commissioner Kaburagi”, who I already don’t like. If you’re the police commissioner, Makoto really would be a better choice, holy shit. She’s already prepared to go after Akira, who is the only Thief they know the identity of, so I guess that’s fair. But still. Has he not been falsely accused of enough for a lifetime?

Although... if you’re gonna look up all his life details, can you maybe... share some? Just a few things? Hometown? How are his parents? Anything?

*

Coming back to Leblanc was cute. Got some Trickster’s Maze vibes from the initial text conversation where they were talking about how people kept not responding to texts, but I think it’s all good. Love that the Sayuri is still on the wall, and that Morgana’s been home with Akira.

Naming the app “Emma” is never going to stop being hilarious to me, because reasons.

Y’know, Atlus, this would work a lot better if he could like...respond to their curiosity. At least these dialogue options seem to suggest that talking things out with his parents went well. Even “I missed you” isn’t inherently negative. He’d miss them either way.

.......so when my boyfriend gets back from his soul-searching vacation, he’ll be welcomed back with open arms, right, Ryuji? Right?

Meanwhile, for summer break plans, Yusuke wants to go to Kyoto for a month-long art tour. Unless...

Never change, dear. Never change.

Nice of Sojiro to water my plant and keep my room from drowning in dust, but he really couldn’t have replaced the bedframe with literally anything other than the plastic storage crates? XD The attic looks so empty and lonely without the shelves of trinkets and plushies, and the TV.

So my reaction to this next part was literally, “LAVENZA, IT’S BEEN LESS THAN 24 HOURS”. X’‘‘D Akira really can’t catch a break. But Lavenza’s dialogue sounded actually sad that he was being dragged into this again. And she’s promised repeatedly that she’s going to be there for him. It’s sweet, even though my room is still a prison and she’s still using torture equipment. Iron maidens, Lavenza, really??

I’m a little concerned that Igor’s not around, though. Lavenza did the dream/reality/mind/matter speech instead. Where is he? I know he’s never around for spinoffs but considering my headcanons I’m very curious now. And why didn’t he like... tell Morgana that Lavenza said ruin is coming again? Even if we don’t count thirdsem events, Morgana still knows that he’s Hope, and he still has a bond with the Velvet Room. Talk to your cat damn it.

Oh no, she’s cute and Alice-in-Wonderland themed. I’m doomed.

She called it her “EMMA keyword” and I immediately blurted “what? keyword??” and then everything went directly to Hell immediately. Keyword was the key word, I guess. X’‘‘‘DDD

And you can tell it’s been six months, considering that these nerds got caught almost immediately. And got their hands bound. And got dragged to the throne room and forced to kneel!

...I’m doomed.

Someone at Atlus looked directly at this fandom and all the fanart of the interrogation and said, “Yeah, they’d be into that.” XD Steppy steppy. At least she’s not a rapist like Kamoshida, but jeeze, we keep getting beaten up and thrown in the dungeon by royalty. All we need is a princess and we’ve got a whole royal family!

Although, I suppose the prince didn’t bother with a dungeon. XD

I think it’s interesting that apparently the guards tried to take our Desires and failed. I guess being a persona-user means your mental state is stable enough that something like that can’t manifest.

Oh no, she’s cute. I love her. Another for the collection of Joker’s baby siblings. This is number... 5? She kind of reminds me of Jose, a little. I’ll be interested to see what she is, since she’s got amnesia right now. She can’t be just a straight AI.

But if she’s Yald’s mom, I’m also going to be majorly weirded out.

I really like the gameplay? It’s so interesting to see how the characters move and fight when they’re not limited to turn-based attacks. And I like being able to jump to different points and use them to ambush enemies. I don’t fully understand all of it yet, and it’s hard for me to keep an eye on things like status ailments and my teammates because everything is so chaotic, but I’m sure I’ll get it.

I did die to a miniboss, and when I hit “return to checkpoint”, it gave me the prompt to select a language for the voice acting again. I dunno what was up with that. X’D And I’m baffled by the concept that you can just leave the metaverse and come back and it restores all your health and stuff. No penalty. Time doesn’t pass. You didn’t waste a day. Have the kids finally learned that we are capable of entering and exiting more than once on the same day? Hallelujah.

...this boy is angry that we have to deal with the Jails instead of having a BBQ feast. Never change, Yusuke.

If you go by the crepe shop in Shibuya, Morgana still doesn’t think you’re a crepe person. I’m so tired, Morgana. It’s also a bit weird and forced that Iwai and Takemi are both out of town. We couldn’t have seen at least one of them? I know we’re not gonna be able to use those shops when we’re on the road, but we could worry about that then.

(Disturbingly easy to return a gold bar that you apparently bought off the dark web. Omg. That was hilarious.)

AND THEN YOU GET UP THE NEXT DAY AND ZENKICHI IS JUST IN YOUR HOUSE? SITTING IN THAT CHAIR? That is not the “detective chair”, sir, that is my boyfriend’s chair, and you need to move. At least he likes the curry, but jesus fuck. Sir, I have unresolved trauma of adults coming into my house to snoop into my business. Get out of my house. X’D

You give me a detective sitting in my boyfriend’s chair and then immediately send me to a taping of the same show in the same studio where I first met him. God, P5S, you’re trying to kill me.

Alice clearly knows that giving out the keyword is doing something. She’s being very deliberate about this. But I don’t think she’s actually aware of the Jail. Love that she’s so arrogant that she can’t imagine that Akira just... didn’t use the keyword, and that’s why she can’t control him.

So I guess the Jail Monarchs are called such because they’re imprisoning other people’s shadows in their distortions. So these are people that want control over something to the point that it distorted their worldview. Part of me wants to go off on a ramble about how this relates to Mementos or Apathy Syndrome, but I’ll wait and do that when I have more information. I’ve got some more of the dungeon to do, and I cannot wait to see Alice’s boss fight.

I’m having so much fun. I really missed these kids; they’re grea--

.......I hate these children. X’‘‘‘‘DDDD

[shapeshifting-wildcard]

Jou had heard about Mitsuru Kirijo a few times before. Thinking back, he'd heard Kanji and his friends mention her off and on a few times over the years. He'd never really paid it much mind, especially since they took pains not to mention her too much around him. Only now did he realize why, given all the secrecy that surrounded their shared powers.

He wasn't really sure what he had expected upon meeting her. Somehow, she both met and exceeded his expectations at the same time. She was a relatively tall woman, easily about his height even without the heels. She had long red hair that fell over one eye, immaculately styled in a way that clearly indicated she had a lot of money (and free time). She had on a white off-the-shoulder short-sleeved blouse, high waisted beige pants, and black stiletto-heeled boots. Her expression looked stern, her gaze seeming to pierce through whoever it landed on. She had an intimidating, commanding aura about her. Despite her relatively casual attire, she very much came across as The One In Charge.

Next to her stood a shorter young woman, one with short blonde hair and seemingly sporting some fancy headphones. She had on a business suit, complete with long sleeves and long pants. At the back of his mind Athena whispered, that's me.

The third young woman was the shortest of the three, standing at about the same height as Futaba. She had long teal hair, pulled into a fancy little french braid, the tail of which she was distractedly toying with as they arrived. She sported a pretty sea-green sundress, and had a darker green messenger bag slung over her shoulder. She was the one who greeted them, offering them a friendly wave as they approached.

"Hello! You must be the Phantom Thieves." She smiled at the assembled group. "I'm Fuuka Yamagishi. This is Aigis, and this is Mitsuru Kirijo. It's nice to meet you all."

The Thieves went around and introduced themselves, including their newest member Zenkichi. "So, what's the situation here?"

Mitsuru stood up straighter, making her presence that much more intimidating. "I'll start from the beginning. Some weeks ago, I attended a conference involving one Akira Konoe. Afterwards, he gave me a business card with his EMMA keyword on it. Upon entering it, I was transported into what I am told is known as a 'Jail.'"

"Wait, hang on a sec," Ryuji interjected. "Was it just you?"

Mitsuru paused and blinked. "Yes, it was. I happened to be alone at the time." "How did you get out of there, then? When it was me, Jou, and Mona we needed Sophia's help to get back out."

"I'll admit, it did take some doing," Mitsuru said. "But my Persona has some limited navigational capabilities. Plus, I'm used to undertaking missions on my own. I did have to rely on my Persona far more than I was comfortable with, but I did find my way to safety eventually."

"Dude!" Ryuji sounded impressed.

"Wow, so this is what a really experienced Persona user is like," Ann commented.

"Please continue, Kirijo-san," Naoto said.

"The moment I returned, I set about organizing a unit of Shadow Operatives to help investigate. Unfortunately, neither of our primary navigators were available at first."

"You have two navigators?" Futaba piped up, face lighting up.

"Yep!" Fuuka chimed in. "Me and Rise-chan."

Futaba's eyes practically sparkled.

"So, at first, I was the default navigator for our small team. We attempted to find a safe area to set up as a base, but were ultimately unable to find a suitable one. The Jail's defenses are too high. Thankfully, Fuuka managed to free up some time to help scout the area out."

"My power is able to extend across realities," Fuuka explained. "So I can safely navigate from outside the Jail."

"Wait, hang on," Futaba said, "outside the Jail? Does that mean you can summon a Persona in the real world?"

"Mm-hm!" Fuuka replied with a grin.

"That's possible?" Zenkichi exclaimed.

"Yes, though it's fairly difficult," Mitsuru said. "Fuuka is one of only a handful of people I know of that can pull it off. It's truly a testament to her skill."

Mitsuru's expression softened to a proud smile as she glanced over to Fuuka, who blushed and fiddled with her braid again.

"W-Well, it's not too far off from when we operated during the Dark Hour," Fuuka stammered.

"It's still impressive," Mitsuru gently insisted.

"What do you mean it's not that different?" Haru piped up.

"Oh," Fuuka stood a little straighter. "I mean, the Dark Hour felt... a little closer to the real world than the TV World and... um, Metaverse? Is that the right term?"

"That's right, yes," Haru said. "But... I'm still not quite sure what you mean?"

"The Dark Hour was like warping time and space in the real world," Aigis said. "While the TV World and Metaverse feel closer to separate worlds."

Jou recalled Kotone mentioning how the Dark Hour felt "different" from the Metaverse, but she'd never really elaborated. Warping time and space, though... that sure was a thing, huh.

"The Dark Hour can occur in any place, but only at a specific time," Aigis continued. "While the other two appear to be much more localized phenomena, from what you've told us."

"Yeah, we've only seen a few Jails pop up in specific places," Morgana chimed in. "And most Palaces only covered a fairly small area."

Fuuka and Mitsuru both blinked in surprise, attention turning to Morgana.

"...Did I hear that right?" Mitsuru asked.

"Yeah, it turns out that the cat can talk," Zenkichi said.

"Oh, so the rest of you can understand them," Aigis remarked.

"Huh," Mitsuru said, still staring at Morgana. She shook her head and returned to business as usual fairly quickly, however. "Anyway, I believe we still need to let you know what the keyword is, correct?"

"Right," Makoto said. "If you would?"

"It's 'Zephyrman.'"

There was a pause.

"Zephyrman?" Makoto repeated.

"Isn't that a really obscure super sentai-style show?" Futaba remarked. "Konoe must really like superheroes or something."

"Considering the way these keywords have worked out, I assume his Jail is going to have some sort of connection," Goro said.

"Oh yeah, that's a good point," Ann said. "What does the Jail actually look like? I mean, what kind of 'theme' does it have?"

"Mm, it's kind of... science fiction," Fuuka said, sounding a bit less than thrilled.

"Not a fan of sci-fi?" Futaba asked.

Fuuka shook her head rapidly. "Oh no, I love sci-fi! Just... this isn't the kind I'm fond of."

"Too hard or too soft?"

"Soft." Fuuka grimaced. "It's like something out of a futuristic dystopia movie. Bright neon lights everywhere, flying cars..."

"That sounds cool, though," Ryuji said.

Fuuka laughed. "I suppose to some people it would be. I just prefer something more realistic. You know, like technology that shows a lot of understanding of what people knew at the time, but expands upon it to create something that didn't exist. Or technological advancements that might actually happen in a few years!"

"Like a killer AI taking over the world?" Futaba commented.

Fuuka grimaced and glanced towards her bag. "...I think that's maybe a little too close to home."

"Actually, that reminds me." Zenkichi turned to Mitsuru. "Kirijo-san, why were you meeting with Konoe in the first place?"

"I was interested in his AI research, actually," Mitsuru said. "My company... dabbled in that back in the day, and I was interested in seeing what his company had to offer."

"Huh, I didn't know the Kirijo Group had done anything with AI," Zenkichi remarked.

"Like I said, it was a long time ago," Mitsuru said with a shrug. "And unfortunately, most of our research was lost in an accident almost twenty years ago. I haven't seen much of a reason to go back to it since."

Before anyone had a chance to press the issue further, a few growls issued from several people's stomachs. Jou suddenly recalled that he hadn't had a proper meal since they'd fled the hotel a few days ago. Mitsuru blinked at the teens, before letting out a soft chuckle.

"Perhaps we should continue this conversation over lunch. I'm more than willing to cover everyone's meals, so feel free to get whatever you want."

The teens broke out into a spirited discussion of where to go for lunch, excitedly discussing all the possibilities available to them in Osaka.

[wondr18360]

Hints at who the traitor was in Persona 5

To be honest, I always had a gut feeling that this person would be the traitor partly because I had seen the teaser images for PQ2 with them included as part of the Phantom Thieves and given their background before they “joined” the group, they certainly seemed suspicious, but still that’s not really proof that this person was the traitor, so here’s a list of things that really helped prove that they were the culprit behind the mental shutdowns and the one who sold out the Phantom Thieves!

(I haven’t revealed their name or gender yet cuz I don’t wanna spoil anyone by accident, so select ‘keep reading’ at your own risk!)

1. Lurking at Okumura Foods

The first time the Phantom Thieves enter Okumura’s palace, Akechi is spotted nearby, and we can see him actually notice the Thieves gathered in front of the company building before the scene cuts to the Metaverse. At this point in the game it could be just a way to make us nervous since it’s already been established that he’s suspicious of the Shujin kids + Yusuke and Futaba, and him seeing them go into the Metaverse in front of a potential target’s property could make him even more suspicious and maybe even give him solid proof that they are the Phantom Thieves, but really, why is Akechi by the Okumura company building in the first place? Maybe it’s a coincidence, or maybe he’s just doing his job investigating Okumura as a suspect? In any case, it is quite convenient, especially that he happens to be there at the same time that the Thieves are, and more importantly, that this just happens to be the one palace that they infiltrate whose owner dies of a mental shutdown because the true culprit appears after the boss battle and kills his shadow. I’m probably grasping at straws, but in hindsight this does seem a bit fishy...

2. Interest in the Shujin Kids + Yusuke & Futaba (and Haru)

During the Shujin Academy panel, when Akechi reveals that he knows their identity as the Phantom Thieves, he tells the group that he was curious about them ever since the Madarame case. This could have been because Yusuke started hanging out with Ryuji, Ann, and Akira (and Morgana) around the time of the Madarame case, and not only would that have been odd because he didn’t go to the same school as them, but after a bit of digging it would have been known that a former pupil/victim of Madarame was hanging out with three Shujin students who had been victims of Kamoshida, who was the first target of the Phantom Thieves; logically that would have made for a pretty interesting group and it would have been a strange coincidence that Yusuke just happens to join those three when his tormentor gets a change of heart. But remember, Madarame’s shadow was the first one to mention the true culprit behind the shutdowns, and talked about a Persona-user with a black mask. Kaneshiro, the next criminal to get a change of heart, also mentioned the culprit. It’s a bit odd that the time around which Akechi grew interested in the group coincides with the time that we first heard about the true culprit, who most likely could have even been in the palaces at the same time as the Thieves and maybe even saw them as they were exploring, particularly since in the Okumura palace, the culprit kills Shadow Okumura right after the Thieves defeat him and leave him behind, indicating that whoever they were, they must have been waiting inside the palace itself for the Thieves to weaken him and then leave so that they could finish the job. Again, probably grasping at straws, but it’s kinda suspicious.

3. Sudden Thieves fan??

Okay he doesn’t really become a fan of the Phantom Thieves, but Akechi’s stance towards them does soften somewhat after Okumura’s death when he adamantly says that they aren’t responsible for the incident or for any of the other mental shutdowns. This is a bit suspicious since before he seemed very convinced that the Phantom Thieves were connected to the mental shutdowns, and when his stance suddenly changes to the opposite, even Sae Nijima calls him out on it and points out the same thing. Not only that, but on his television appearance, he even comments that there may be more going on than originally thought, which is similarly suspicious and even indicates that he may actually know more than he’s letting on. In addition, when he later runs into Akira at Leblanc again, he says something about how is goals are probably not so different from theirs, which a) hints at a possible collaboration between him and the Thieves, and b) indicates that he may also have his own agenda to get rid of scummy adults. The latter is actually confirmed later when he’s talking with the Thieves in Leblanc, when he mentions wanting revenge against sickening human beings and having a grudge against someone, which puts more emphasis on the fact that there is some darker force behind Akechi’s actions and motivation. 

4. Genius, or experienced?

During the Shujin Academy panel when Akechi confronts the Thieves and reveals how he found out their true identities, he says that he has the same power as them and that he gained that power around the time of the Okumura case, about a month before the panel. However, when he’s talking to the Thieves, he seems to know quite a bit about the Metaverse, even mentioning it by name, which is odd because even members like Makoto and Futaba, who either pick up knowledge quite quickly or may have already had some knowledge of the cognitive world, needed time and guidance from Morgana and the veteran members of the Thieves in order to figure things out. And yet here’s Akechi, who was on his own the whole time, talking as though he’s already an expert on the Metaverse- and how exactly did he know that that’s what the other world was called? It’s a bit strange, and even when he’s exploring Sae’s palace with the Thieves, he seems to know quite a lot already, or picks up on things abnormally quickly for someone who’s supposed to be an “amateur” as Morgana would say. Speaking of Sae’s palace, it’s also a bit fishy how he was able to find out so quickly how to use the Meta-nav to find it, since he is the one who reveals to the group that she has a palace, and evidently already has a plan to change her heart. Basically, his intelligence aside, the only other viable reason I can think of for Akechi’s extensive knowledge of the Metaverse is that he has more experience with it than he made it seem to the Phantom Thieves. 

5. Bad storyteller

I don’t know about you guys, but when Akechi was telling the Thieves about how he saw the real culprit behind the shutdowns and somehow survived their encounter by awakening his Persona, I wasn’t buying it. First, there's no proof that what he’s saying is actually true, and also, if he's really going to be a bona fide monafide member of the Phantom Thieves, wouldn’t we actually get to witness his awakening the way we did with all the other members? Even Haru, who was in her Persona clothes already when we first saw her, got a real awakening scene for us to see, but there’s none of that for Akechi. That’s not all though- it’s already established that the true culprit is quite strong, in fact, back when Shadow Kaneshiro mentioned the culprit, he said that the Thieves would be no match for them in terms of strength. If that’s the case, how would Akechi have survived? Maybe the trauma of a life-or-death situation triggered his awakening and his Persona momentarily saved his life, but still the culprit could have taken another shot or two and killed him because he’s still supposed to be relatively unfamiliar with his powers, and logically it would also be in the culprit’s best interests to make sure to get rid of Akechi because he actually saw them and this could come back to bite them later. In any case, Akechi’s story is only slightly believable at best in my opinion, and for me at least it definitely was a big hint.

6. Sae’s calling card

Am I the only one who thought it was kind of weird that Akechi was so specific about the date that they should send out the calling card for Sae? I mean, yeah he gave that whole analysis of her character and why based on that it would be good to send the calling card closer to the deadline, but still, why did it have to be on the 18th? Why not the 17th or the 19th? After all, those dates are pretty close to the deadline as well. This just makes it more likely that Akechi’s monologue about Sae is a clever ruse to hide the fact that he is planning his own “mission” to mobilize the police to capture the Phantom Thieves in her palace on that date. 

7. The deal

One of the biggest indicators (in my opinion) that Akechi wouldn’t be a true member of the Phantom Thieves was his condition for cooperating with them: they disband after dealing with Sae’s palace. If he genuinely was interested in joining them or working together towards justice, he wouldn’t be giving them such an ultimatum. He does say that he wants to work with them because the mission would not be able to succeed without their cooperation, but even that comment is a bit sketchy because his referring to a “mission” could even mean that he has an ulterior motive, some other “mission” that he’s trying to carry out besides taking away Sae’s distorted desires. Anyway, because he generally did not approve of the Thieves and his motivation for working with them was questionable at best, it makes sense that he would have been the one to betray them.

8. Delicious Pancakes:

Finally, the most meme-ish canon hint that Goro Akechi is the traitor! This is basically the incident that tips off Akira and the Phantom Thieves that they should be suspicious of Akechi when he wants to make a deal and work with them later in the game. It’s one of those hints that you can catch when it happens (which is far earlier than the deal and whole traitor business), but it’s subtle enough that you do need to be paying some attention to what’s going on at the time, especially since it’s covered up well by Ryuji’s convincing response to Akechi that nope, no one was talking about pancakes, and the fact that no one actually addresses it afterwards until months later when the story is close to its climax. But even if you did forget that Morgana was the only one talking about pancakes and how delicious they were, you would have to wonder why Akechi was so specific about having heard someone say “delicious pancakes” when it sounds nothing like what Ryuji and Ann were talking about before he arrived on the scene. From the early-game standpoint, it’s an indicator that given the fact that he heard Morgana, Akechi probably isn’t the normal high-school detective that he appears to be, but after progressing to the later part of the game, it’s proof that Akechi could hear and understand Morgana from the very beginning, and therefore was another Metaverse user; he was the true culprit behind the mental shutdowns. 

Welp, that was long, but if you got this far, thanks so much and I hope you enjoyed reading! :D

Bonus hint: Akechi literally is a long-haired alternate dimension version of Light Yagami, I mean of COURSE he’s the crazy criminal masquerading as a detective/ordinary student! XD 

(Also no one asked but Futaba sits a lot like L so it really is like Light vs. L again except this time L WINS!!)

[salmonandsoup]

Can you tell us more about your Persona 4/5 AU? It sounds super interesting!

OH!!!!!!!

oh absolutely

the official name of this thing is “an unorthodox absolution” btw, just so y’all can check the tag for things when i eventually post em.  or not bc i forget but IT’S THERE!!!!  you can also check “the spectral redeemers au” or “spectral redeemers au”

but OK so this shit’s goin under a readmore cuz it might get Long and involves TONS of late-game spoilers for both p4 and p5

aight so.  i love villains.  a lot.  they’re bastards and bitches and they’re MY bastards and bitches.  it’s probably because i’ve always tried to be kind and helpful and i want to “save” them even though i know it’d never happen and they’d either laugh at me or kill me bUT A WOMAN CAN DREAM OF MAKING THE WORLD A BETTER PLACE

so i decided to make a villain redemption arc kind of au that would involve my favorite villains from persona 4 and 5 to be able to turn a new leaf and get personas and be a really cool antihero/antivillain kinda squad (grant it, some of the members aren’t bad guys at all, but due to interacting with the former bad guy squad and getting personas thanks to the former bad guy squad they join the former bad guy squad)

important things to note:

p4 takes place in 2011-2012, and p5 takes place in 2016-2017

p4 “ended” with the accomplice ending, and narukami was close enough to marie to get her to realize who she was and what she needed to do, so she killed herself to contain some of the fog.  inaba isn’t devoured by fog, and it actually left––well, more like it did something very interesting

there are a lot of holes surrounding a few characters cuz this is a wip au (for example: while i respect her and think she’d make a great pseudo-phantom thief, i don’t really love sae, so i haven’t done a lot of her stuff even though she’s the 4th member)

the palaces the PT go through are condensed, so okumura’s palace is actually some time in early august –– while i won’t go into it, you can imagine they’d fill the void that crunch time brings with other palaces while the spectral redeemers catch up

it all starts with okumura’s shadow fighting back against the black mask, figuring out his identity, and devising a plan to destroy the conspiracy from the inside out.  okumura fakes his death after starting to repair his relationship with haru (she knows he’s not actually dead so he can continue trying to mend the relationship) and lives under a false identity as he tries to accomplish this mission with akechi, and meets a few interesting people along the way, who end up becoming members of the squad in due time.  

he looks like this and i die because i have Things I Like and i poured them All into “ichirou matsuoka’s” design

the first he meets is one tohru adachi, living it up and hating himself five years after inaba.  the two of them enter a dance of a relationship after a drunken tryst and keeping intrigue because they both know the other’s hiding SOMETHING from them.  eventually akechi and okumura figure out what adachi did, and decide to change his heart.

now, when haru goes missing is when things get fun for this story, and shit kicks into gear.

okumura knows his daughter’s a phantom thief––who else would be able to get close enough to him to change his heart?  fuckin nobody, babey; he kept that shit guarded as hell!  so he has an idea that this disappearance is phantom thief related.  and he panics a bit, cuz he was a horrible father but he’s not gonna be any longer so he decides to sneak behind akechi and into the metaverse when he finally pesters the kid enough to at least CHECK on them in whatever they’re doing (by this time, akechi is working alongside the phantom thieves and while they know he’s the traitor, something feels strange and they’re gonna Investigate this new air akechi’s got about him).  okumura steps into sugimura’s palace, because the bastard did NOT take the rescinding of the marriage contract well AT ALL.  shadow!sugimura isn’t tough, but he gets the drop on the PT and ambushes them

now, they could easily get out on their own, and were in the process of doing so as they got shadow!sugimura monologuing––but wouldn’t a distraction be perfect?  they get one with okumura staggering in and trying to tackle and beat shadow!sugimura into the fucking ground even though he’s literally bleeding out because he rushed in pellmell with akechi begrudgingly keeping the shadows at bay.  shadow!sugimura throws him off…

but then okumura hears a voice.  feels a cape manifest as he vows to never let anyone become a monster like him.  tears it off…

and behind him stands gilgamesh, his very own persona.

after defeating shadow!sugimura, taking his treasure, and escaping the palace, okumura and akechi decide to form a persona-user team of their own, and they call themselves the spectral redeemers––ghosts of villains past trying to make amends for their transgressions.

back to adachi.  you think the bitch don’t have a palace by now, after five years of this shit?  then you don’t know the bitch; he absolutely does.  and he’s the redeemers’ first target.  

now, unfortunately, okumura doesn’t really.  know how to send a calling card.  it turns into him backing adachi into a corner and screaming at him to tell him what he thinks of this goddamn world because they know the who, the where, and they just need the what

so uh.  okumura and akechi go into adachi’s palace blind and at 99% security with about four reapers in the damn palace, which is magatsu tokyo instead of magatsu inaba––shit tonna mazes and dead ends.  thank god there’s a flu going around in the police station so it’s flu season in adachi’s palace.

but you also don’t know the bitch if you don’t think tohru adachi wouldn’t do everything in his power to try and stop them, so he follows them in, too––watches them get the shit kicked out of them and still keep trudging, even making it to his shadow, which berates them and taunts them as they’re fighting.  and they’re making a dent!  they’re hitting it!  but when it starts getting bloodied is when it goes BERSERK.  and all they can do is heal each other.  then all they can do is revive.  and then adachi’s shadow gets an unfortunate critical hit––

and adachi steps between them, takes the hit for okumura.  and if you thought his shadow ripped into people before, adachi’s shadow tears his human self a new asshole.  every little insecurity, everything he hates, everything that pisses him off is thrown right in his face.  adachi goes from angry to despairing to grimly accepting as his shadow raises its weapon––

but okumura, barely conscious, reaches out with the last of his strength and takes adachi’s hand, gives him a warm smile.  he regrets nothing––he fell in love with this man and he’s wanted to die for years now.  if he’s a martyr, so be it.

but that little show of love makes both adachi and his shadow pause.  and then adachi gets up, even while bleeding––tells his shadow it’s right.  

it is him, and he is it.  and he doesn’t want to be that any longer.  he hates it.  he wants to change.  he’s done.  and he gains magatsu-izanagi, takes his own damn treasure, and heals both okumura and akechi and helps them out of the palace as it crumbles.

and thus begins the story.  i’m still working on sae’s stuff, but she’s the next member, and it most likely involves her figuring out what was going on with akechi and shido and deciding “y’know what?  actually, fuck this” and demanding a contract from her shadow.

if you’d like to see some more information, click here for a spreadsheet!  there’s a lot more to this au, especially involving a certain kohaku ueno (he’s an OC that @solivagantis and i created, and he lets the redemeers know of the prison of regression early––so they get to make a choice that could twist the tides of fate.)

[i-w-p-chan]

Connections, Part 7

Previous

.

The Thieves gathered in Leblanc’ attic on the next day; instead of finding Akira waiting for them, they were met with the sight of Goro sitting cross-legged on Akira’s bed.

Goro sent them all a searching look and pointed towards the table off to the side, already prepared for the gathering. The Thieves quietly settled around the table.

Honestly, Ann felt like she was about to be scolded and grounded.

Goro walked towards them until he stood in clear view of all of them and sighed tiredly.

“This brings back memories of that conversation we had with Ren before leaving for Hawaii,” Goro started, “I don’t think any of you would forget that particular conversation anytime soon. On the topic of stealing Okumura’s heart- as much as I would love to start working on it, we can’t at the moment. Our goal isn’t to pander to the public’s desires- something we’ll definitely be doing if we listened to what they say and changed hearts to their whims. If we’re going to be changing Okumura’s heart, then it’s going to be on our terms, not just because someone said so.” Goro paused to observe their faces, Ann didn’t know what he found, but it must have satisfied them, “I’m glad we all understand that point. We’re rebels after all, not circus monkeys.” Goro smiled widely and Ann smothered a laugh- he was right. The other Thieves shared smiles.

“Now that that topic is out of the way, let’s move on to more important matters. Morgana.” And the lighthearted mood vanished, replaced by tension and worry.

“While I expected we’ll be having our fights with each other- we are a group full of diverse personalities, after all- I did not expect it to cause a rift between us. One great enough to drive one of the members to leave. And not just any member, it’s Morgana who left.” Goro frowned, “Morgana who is the sole reason the Phantom Thieves of Hearts exist in the first place.”

Makoto blinked at Goro in confusion, “What? I know Morgana is one of the ‘founding’ members of the Thieves, but what’s this about him being the reason the Thieves exist?”

Goro sighed and took a seat, “I haven’t told you all about this and it’s about time I do, given the circumstances.”

The Thieves leaned forward to intently listen to Goro speak, “I only told Ryuji about some of these details due to how he ended up in the Metaverse for the first time.”

“That’s true,” Ann said, “You never told me how you first got into the Metaverse, Ryuji said that he was accidentally pulled in when you entered Kamoshida’s Palace, but beyond that…”

“I’ve had the app on my phone for more than two years now,” Goro declared, earning shocked looks the rest of the Thieves, “And I’ve been into and out of the Metaverse frequently during those years. You have all mentioned to me how I seem to have more experience in wielding my two Personas, and handling Shadows. It’s because I have been doing it for a couple of years now, before I even started working as a detective, even.

“I didn’t have much in the way of information about how things happening in the Metaverse could affect reality so I had to tread cautiously. I’m lucky I didn’t accidentally cause mental shutdowns during those years.”

“Then how did you figure out to avoid killing the shadows? Or did you not and it was just a precaution from your side?” Makoto inquired.

“…something happened…” Goro trailed off slightly, his gaze distant, “You heard about the rampaging incidents more than a year ago?”

“Yes, what about it?”

“You know how Loki can induce a state of berserk rage as one of his skills?”

“Ye-“ Makoto cut herself off with a shocked look, “You don’t mean to say…”

“That you’re the one responsible for the rampaging incidents?”

Goro scratched his cheek and coughed into his sleeve in embarrassment, “Indeed I do, Makoto, Yusuke. And due to that, I wondered if other things I did to a person’s Shadow could affect them outside the Metaverse, and so I decided to do my absolute best to avoid killing the Shadows. Knowing what I do now, I’m glad I came to that conclusion.”

“Why did you cause the rampaging incidents?” Futaba cocked her head to the side in curiosity.

“It… was the only thing I could do.” Goro leaned his head on his fist, “In the Metaverse, I mean. You know how Shadows are- it didn’t take me long to come across a Shadow that spilled one detail too many about their life and I snapped and sent them into a berserk state.” Goro sighed, “After I left the Metaverse, I heard about the rampaging incident and so I investigated further. That’s how I reached the conclusion that if I use a weak version of the skill on Shadows who are too close to the edge, they’d end up hitting their limit and venting their emotions, which would leave them in a clearer state of mind. It was the closest to a change of heart I could do back then, but it was nothing close to what we could do now.”

“Why didn’t you change hearts at that time, then?” Yusuke wondered.

“That’s where I reach the point about Morgana being the reason the Thieves exist- the reason I didn’t change anyone’s heart before is because I had no idea I could do such a thing.”

There was a moment of silence as the Thieves digested the info.

“It was Morgana who told me about how to change hearts. And then Ryuji persisted on joining me to Kamoshida’s Palace and I shared knowledge with him, then Ann joined.” Goro half-smiled, “And the rest, as they say, is history.”

Goro rose from his seat and stretched, “I want Morgana back with us ASAP, I hope you understand, I owe him quite a lot. Besides, he’s our friend now, isn’t he?”

The Thieves chorused an agreement.

“Oooh, don’t worry.” Futaba grinned, “We’ll be getting Mona back with us in no time.”

“And Ryuji is going to apologize- aren’t you, Ryuji?” Ann stared intently at Ryuji who huffed.

“Yeah, yeah.”

“Well then, how are we going to start the search for Morgana?” Yusuke asked.

The Thieves grew silent as they contemplated the question, wondering where Morgana may have gone.

It was then that Goro’s phone pinged with an incoming message.

The Thieves looked at Goro who frowned as he took out his phone, “This better not be work,” He muttered as he unlocked his phone and stared at the screen.

Goro huffed in amusement and slid his phone on the table with the screen, still unlocked, facing up.

The Thieves gathered around the phone to see what it contained and they blinked in shock.

It was a message from Ren sent to what looked like a newly-created group chat called ‘The Morgana Investigations’.

The message simply said ‘Update!’ but the attached image was what pulled their attention- it was an image of Morgana napping on a comfortable looking couch.

Then a new message arrived.

Ren: Heard my favorite detective is missing his friend, so I went digging :D

“I believe it is now simply a matter of convincing Ren-san to tell us where they found Morgana,” Yusuke said.

“Yeah?” Ryuji said, “Good luck with that.”

Makoto smiled, “You can say that again.”

Goro retrieved his phone, “Ren won’t tell and we all know it.”

“Guess we’ll have to prepare bribery.” Futaba looked at Goro with a devious glint in her eyes, “Quick! Get our esteemed leader in a dress!”

“No!”

.

Eventually, the Thieves decided that Morgana most likely decided to take on Okumura’s Palace on his own and headed to the Palace in hopes of finding him.

As they started exploring the place, Crow subtly gestured them all to gather together and he whispered, “I think we’re being watched.”

“I can feel it too,” Queen whispered back, “It doesn’t feel malicious, though. It’s almost like it’s curious?”

“Still, I believe we should stay cautious.”

It did not take them long before they finally came across Mona- in the company of another Persona user, whom Mona introduced as the Beauty Thief.

Said Beauty Thief seemed to have words to say to them.

“You!” She pointed at Fox, “Learn to take a hint!”

Fox cocked his head to the side inquisitively.

“And you!” She pointed at Skull next, “You’re very vulgar!”

“And you!” She then pointed at Crow, “You’re too gay to function!”

Silence.

“Excuse you.” Crow was miffed, “I function sufficiently enough, thank you very much.”

The Beauty Thief scoffed.

“She got you there, man.”

.

Unfortunately, the Thieves didn’t make much progress in convincing Morgana to return to them during their visit to Okumura’s Palace. The only thing they figured out was the identity of the Beauty Thief: Okumura Haru.

That was when Goro suggested staking out Mementos.

“Someone’s been taking care of the requests on the site, and it certainly wasn’t us.” Goro blinked, “Unless one of you was dealing with requests without telling the rest?”

The Thieves shook their heads.

Ann then smiled enthusiastically, “I can’t believe we’ll be doing a stake out! And with a detective, to boot!”

Goro shook his head ruefully, “Stake outs aren’t as exciting as you think they are. And when phantom thieves are involved in the equation, we’ll most definitely end up giving chase. Phantom thieves usually lead you on chases- unless they had a deal to strike or a topic to discuss with you.”

“That makes me curious though.” Makoto tucked a strand of hair behind her ear, “What deals would a phantom thief want to strike with the detective chasing after them? Which topics would they like to discuss?”

Goro sighed, “It differs from one phantom thief to another. Phantom thievery is an industry where individuality and uniqueness is par for the course, and so I’ve encountered strange things while dealing with them. There was a phantom thief who liked to criticize every security failing he comes across during heists. A pair of phantom thieves who took great pleasure in stealing jewels just so that they can return them a week later- while putting them in the weirdest place they could find and leaving clues to where they hid them.”

“I know there is a particular phantom thief whom you get assigned to deal with more than the others?” Yusuke inquired.

Goro huffed, half miffed and half amused, “Joker. He’s… certainly something. He doesn’t have a specific target pattern or M.O., one moment he could be breaking and entering to return items that have been stolen long ago, and the next he could be stealing the watches of everyone in his taskforce. A lot of people associate him with the Amamiya and their heir’s not-so-subtle reparations work. But it’s certainly far from the only thing he does.

“Anyway, weren’t we going to stake out Mementos?”

.

The Thieves staked out Mementos, and Mona and the Beauty Thief did, indeed, show up, and it resulted in a chase.

Crow was not surprised and Panther knew why.

It was almost eerie- how their phantom thief activities went smoothly due to extensive knowledge Crow had about security and patrol details from his work as a detective. It was also quite ironic, and Panther wasn’t about to start complaining- neither were any of the Thieves, not even Queen.

They all knew that in their situation, it was for the best to take advantage of what they had at their disposal. One of those assets they had was their existence as a team; a unit in which everyone had the each other’s backs, a unit that wouldn’t just let go of one of its members.

This was what led the Thieves to a chase on foot to catch up with their missing team member and potential new member (given their track record), this was what led the Thieves to follow after the two back into the real world, and it was what led the Thieves to stand protectively around Okumura Haru and Morgana in a street in the night, ready to fend off the guy who seemed to be looming over Okumura.

Or trying to.

It seemed Ren had come across Okumura and Morgana by accident just in time to step in between Okumura and the guy staring at her with a dark look in his eyes and a countenance that promised retribution.

After the Thieves chased him off, they turned to Okumura, who was holding her arm close to her body and staring at the ground with melancholy.

“Is your arm okay?” Ren started, pulling Okumura’s attention towards them.

Once Okumura refocused at them and nodded, Ren continued, “Now, how do you feel?”

Okumura sucked in a deep breath and her frame trembled a bit before she straightened up and smiled, “I’ll be fine. Thank you for your help. I apologize for bothering you.”

Ren’s features softened, “You do not have to apologize.” They smiled gently at Okumura, “Any friend of theirs-“ Ren gestured to the Thieves, “-is a friend of mine. Besides, you’ve been taking care of Morgana. Helping you out was the least I could do.”

Okumura ducked her head, her cheeks gaining a slight rosy hue.

“Who was that guy?” Ann took the opportunity to approach Okumura and lay a comforting hand on her shoulder.

Okumura raised her head to look at her and smile sadly, “That was my fiancé.”

“Your fiancé?” Makoto was shocked.

“And he threatens you like that?” Ren murmured, voice a couple of octaves lower, tone dark, “You know what? I’ll be leaving you in their care.” Ren gestured to the Thieves; Goro sent Ren a warning look, and Ren looked back at him with a terrifying expression, their eyes holding promises of retribution, “I have some pests to deal with.”

Ren then turned on their heels and left, their steps purposeful; the Thieves watched them go until they rounded a corner.

Goro pulled their attention to him as he walked closer to Okumura, “We shouldn’t be staying outside so late. Let’s take you somewhere to rest, you must be exhausted.”

“Where are we going to take her?” Futaba asked.

“Leblanc,” Goro answered, “It seems we’ll be burrowing Akira’s room for a bit yet again.”

Ann sighed and shook her head, “I can’t believe how Akira’s keeps lending us his room for meetings. Is it boyfriend privilege?” She sent a scrutinizing look Goro’s way.

Goro’s cheeks flushed, “I have no idea what you’re talking about!”

“Sure you don’t.”

Okumura giggled, some of the tension in her shoulders slipping away, “Alright. Thank you all very much.”

.

With Haru joining them, the Thieves were able to continue through Okumura’s Palace and steal his Treasure.

And then all they had to do was wait for the change of heart.

Ann did not like the waiting game- she never liked it; she’d always stress about how things would go after they stole the Treasure, and Ren wasn’t around like usual to lighten the mood. Not even by way of messages.

Ann sighed, attracting Goro’s attention from where he was sipping his coffee in the seat across from her while working on his homework (between school, detective work, being the leader of the Phantom Thieves and the sudden media attention focused on him due to the Thieves’ popularity, Ann wondered how he managed).

“Is something the matter?” Goro put his cup of coffee down on the table and rested his chin on a hand. Aside from the two of them and Boss, Leblanc was empty.

Not even Akira was around, and Ann wanted to know where the hell he disappeared to so late at night.

“I’m just a little worried.”

“About?”

“Uh. Ren-chan.” Ann almost winced right after she answered; she was almost certain that would burden Goro more.

The look Goro had in his eyes intensified, it quite resembled the look he’d send to a Shadow he never encountered before and as such was trying to figure out its weakness. Ann wasn’t bothered, as the look wasn’t directed at her.

“You have a reason to worry. Ren hasn’t been very talkative lately, it’s almost like they’re planning something. What, I don’t know for sure, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it had anything to do with Haru’s fiancé.”

Ann cocked her head to the side, “Does it have to do with the look they had on their face that day?”

“Indeed. I know that look, it never boded well to whoever caused it- Ren can be quite spiteful when the mood strikes, if you hear anything about Sugimura being strapped to a streetlight in his underwear, don’t be surprised.”

Ann’s lips twitched into a smile while she simultaneously scrunched her nose, “You know, that mental image is both amusing and horrifying.”

Goro beamed at her, “If I had to suffer by having such mental images stuck in my head since the day we encountered Sugimura, I’m dragging you all down with me. In fact-“ Goro pulled out his phone, his smile gaining a sharp edge, “-I’m going to do just that.”

Ann didn’t need to ask what he was doing when she received the messages herself through the group chat that included both the Thieves and Ren.

Goro: I’m sure I’m not the only one wondering about Ren’s whereabouts.

Makoto: True.

Goro: As the resident detective, it is my duty to share my conspiracy theory about it.

Ann pressed a hand to her mouth to smother her smile as she watched the three dots on the screen indicating that Goro was typing.

Goro: Sugimura.

Haru: What about him?

Goro: If anyone hears any news about him being found naked in public, do not be surprised.

Ryuji: DUDE

Ryuji: DUDE WHY

Ryuji: WHY

Ryuji: WHY DID YOU HAVE TO SAY THAT

Ryuji: I DID NOT NEED THAT MENTAL IMAGE

Makoto: NIIJIMA-AKECHI GORO!

Ann couldn’t help the startled laugh that burst from her mouth as she snickered about the chat degenerating into a series of horrified exclamations and Makoto verbally flaying Goro. In front of her, Goro was smirking at his phone in satisfaction.

The door to Leblanc opened at that moment and Akira stepped through.

Goro looked up from his phone and his smirk softened into a smile when he saw Akira, “Welcome back.”

“Honey, I’m home,” Akira responded, expression not twitching at what he just said.

“You’re back awfully late.” Goro did not miss a beat and Ann needed to tell the rest about this- it was going straight into the ‘Local Detective Boy Thirsts After Local Barista More At 8’ group chat.

(Ann inwardly pouted for a fraction of a second when she saw that Futaba beat her to it.)

Ann raised her head just in time to see Akira walk over to the table, bend down and kiss Goro on the cheek.

Her mouth dropped in shock and her phone slipped from her hand, clattering to the ground loudly in the ensuing silence. Goro’s face exploded into a violent shade of red and steam began rising from his head.

“Good night, darling,” Akira murmured into Goro’s ear before standing up and stretching, “I’ll be heading to bed.”

“Sheesh,” Boss grumbled half-heartedly from behind the counter, “Stop tormenting the kid.”

Akira lazily nodded and headed upstairs, throwing a good night Ann’s way on his way upstairs.

“Night, Akira,” She called back distractedly, trying to pull herself back together from her shock.

A few moments later, she reached down to retrieve her phone, idly wondering if she should tell the group chat about the kiss as her own retaliation.

If Futaba heard, she’d probably get cameras installed in Leblanc just so that she wouldn’t miss anything of the sort in the future.

Ann was brought out of her musings when the TV channel running background noise in the café moved onto the news segment; Ann blinked at the screen as the reporter spoke about the son of a wealthy and influential political family was found hanging upside down from a lamppost while naked- his form covered only by glitter. The surname ‘Sugimura’ that was shown on screen caused her eyes to widen and she whipped her head to stare incredulously at Goro who seemed to be still miles away.

Her phone pinged with the stream of messages being received.

Ryuji: HOLY SHIT

Futaba: Hah!

Haru: That was…!

Makoto: Goro! Respond! Oh my god!

Makoto: Ren, you didn’t do this, did you?

Ann put her phone down and leaned back in her seat, chuckling lightly.

Goro was snapped from his daze by the sound of his phone ringing; he quickly shook his head and answered the phone.

After greeting whoever was on the other end of the line, Goro’s expression changed from curiosity to shock, “He did what?” Goro turned his head towards the TV and observed the news, “Oh god,” He said after a moment, “I cannot believe- actually, wait. Yes, I can believe. I’ll be on my way.” Goro ended the call and slipped his phone back into his pocket before he started to gather his things, “Sorry for the abrupt departure but it seems that Joker struck again and I need to go do my job.” He sighed and smiled at Boss, “Thank you for the coffee, it was delicious as always.”

Ann stood from her seat, “Yes, thank you, Boss! Goro, I’ll be going with you to the train station. I need to head back home before the last train leaves anyway.” With that, the two left the café.

.

End Part 7

Next

[imaginedeliciouspancakes]

what about if goro's s/o found out about everything that he was doing mid-game and confronted him abt it?

Oooooh boy I think about this a LOT :’’’’p 

under a read more for obvious reasons

- If S/O has a Persona as well, they are a member of the Phantom Thieves, but they find out before the rest of the team does. And because, at that time, S/O and Akechi were already a serious couple, they don’t speak of it to anyone about it.

- Akechi knows they’re a member of the Phantom Thieves, but thinks they’re just in the dark about him as the rest of the PTs are. 

- One day, S/O sees Akechi entering the Metaverse himself and, in shock and curiosity, follows him in. 

- When they see him as the Black Mask, they are in complete shock, remembering the PTs talking about a black mask mentioned by some of their past targets’ Shadows. 

- Being reckless, only thinking about their love for him rather than their own safety, chase after him as he walks through Mementos like it was nothing. They keep in the shadows, watching him do the work, hoping something will prove their suspicions wrong, but to their disappointment, they watch him kill a person’s Shadow.

- “G-G... Goro...!?” Their mouth acts faster than their mind can think and the Black Mask turns and aims his gun right at them. Akechi shows extreme hostility, knowing right away that, whoever they were, they were a Phantom Thief. But when S/O removes their mask, it all washes away into disbelief.

- “S/O!?” They immediately recognize his voice, but it’s hoarse and strained. 

- S/O is speechless. They don’t know what to ask and/or say first.

- Akechi storms over to them and hisses “What are you doing here?!” at them. He doesn’t look as much like a monster as he did moments before, but S/O was still fairly shaken by the sight before them.

- They can only ask him why. They cannot get any other thought out but why.

- Akechi can’t get any words out. He knows he disappointed them. It was now known that he’s been lying to them this whole time.

- S/O retracts their question why. Instead, they pull him into a tight hug and silently hold him.

- Their love for him is so strong, that they didn’t care. They would remain by his side. Hell, they’d even become a double agent, just so he wouldn’t be alone.

- If they aren’t a Persona user, they walk in on him on the phone with Shido, discussing the next mental shutdown he was going to cause.

- They listen from behind the door of his office (he doesn’t know they’re home), each and every word causing them more and more pain.

- When he hangs up, they bust the door open, tears rolling down their cheeks. 

- Akechi could try to be defensive, saying “it’s not what it looks like!!”, but S/O is just sobbing, repeating “Why?!”, over and over again (plus there was no use in lying)

- He can’t even get a word in before they start asking who was that on the other end, what was he gaining from this, et cetera.

- Once they’ve collapsed into his arms, he sits them down on the couch in his office and begins explaining. They already knew what he basically told Akira, just in a little more detail, so he explains to them what he eventually tells the PTs in Shido’s palace. 

- Immediately after he finishes, S/O grabs onto him and tells him to stop it, stop causing the mental shutdowns, stop trying to get his worthless father’s affections.

- He tells them again and again that he can’t, or else Shido would most likely have him killed.

- S/O just doesn’t know what to do at this point. They love him so much. They don’t want him getting anymore blood on his hands, but they also don’t want him to be killed. They know him stopping now would save so many more lives than letting him continue, but they just... can’t.

- Akechi tells them that, no matter what they say, he’s going to continue causing the shutdowns. There was no backing out now.

- They’re extremely saddened by their discovering and his choice, but they let him know that no matter what he does, they’ll be by his side. They don’t condone his actions, but they want him to be loved and supported emotionally, outside of all the bad things he’s doing.

- Despite all this, he still dies in Shido’s palace. S/O is obviously devastated, but with what Akechi left behind, they continue onwards, swearing to live on for him and others that have been driven to such drastic things.

- They call him “My Crow”, hence leading to him picking that code name when he “joins” the PTs. 

[sak-a]

Hi, anon! Sorry for the late response!

Regarding part one, I don’t think that’s quite how that works.

According to what I’ve gathered from P4/5, your shadow is essentially your Persona, but you can’t control it due to the distorted emotions you have. For instance, In P4AU, I believe it was in Yosuke’s route that he tries to call his Persona when his shadow’s before him. And it doesn’t come.

In P4 we could consider the dungeons to be Palaces, except it’s not distorted desires, but distorted emotions/internal problems. And as we all know, after that you’re not me jumbo, the shadow turns into a Persona. A person can become a Persona user if they do not have any distortion in their heart, while someone can have a Palace if they do.

In P5, we see this is consistent. When Futaba confronts her shadow and faces her problems, the shadow leaves and turns into a Persona. She is no longer slothful and joins the team to fight. If Akira suddenly had strong distorted desires then I’m sure this would happen:

The next time he entered the Metaverse to fight, his Personas wouldn’t come no matter who he called. Then his clothes would turn to normal, since they are a product of his cognition and Persona power. If the team put his name into the Nav then they’d get a hit, and they’d just need to figure out the rest.

As for getting rid of one’s initial Persona, I don’t think that’s a problem. Just because Arsene was fused, that doesn’t mean he’s gone, since you can just resummon him from the Velvet Room assistants. He’s technically in the fused Persona, too. Also, once Shadows join your Persona list, they’re no longer a shadow. They are considered a Persona. Not only that, but they represent the general people, and they’re essentially like mini shadow selves. The fact that Mementos targets turn into one is proof, I think.

Moving onto part two, I do agree along with others that Akira was not treated well by his parents. However, since P5′s Palaces are based on the seven deadly sins (or the eight nonsensical ones), I think it’d be more accurate to call his distorted desire greed. And since he can’t use his Persona powers while he has a Palace, I think he’d know after some discussion with the phantoms. I do think it’s possible for one’s distorted desires to be solved in the real world without intervention, depending on how far the desires have evolved. Therapy’s meant to help with that sort of stuff after all.

However, I think his desire would be more accurately pride. He’s an anti-hero doing acts of justice that the law can’t do, and he’s the leader of an infamous gang. Maybe he would feel upset that no one loved him/appreciated him more and the more dangerous targets raise the stakes? He’d have a high opinion of himself then. Or something like that, idk.

Hope I answered well enough for you, anon! I didn’t mean to sound rude or mean. ;;

[blackguard]

The Hollow Needle

@inxquisitor

    Exiting the all too familiar Crossroads bar, I’m not surprised to find the streets of Shinjuku are bustling even this late into the night.  A sea of neon light cascades through the unprescribed glass in my frames, ever so slightly stinging my eyes.  Ohya had nothing for me, but promised to keep her ear to the ground in the meantime.  My hunt proven fruitless this night, I begin walking back to the terminal and withdraw my phone to glare down at its taunting screen.

     It’s been a little over a week since we got back to town.  I handled things as well as I could with my folks, but that’s an entirely separate problem.  Right now, we have more pressing concerns.

    The day we got back, the Meta-Nav showed up on my phone again; on all our phones.  We tested it and sure enough, we found ourselves in a dark replica of Tokyo.  Mementos and the god of control are gone but somehow, the Metaverse exists again and I haven’t the faintest as to why.  Much as I don’t like leaping to conclusions, there is only one loose end we never properly tied up.

    Masayoshi Shido came to power thanks to his abuse of the Metaverse, but there was only one person under him who could enter it themselves.  All of the mental shutdowns and psychotic breakdowns were the work of a single individual, the same person who blackmailed us, framed us, and tried to murder me.  The only other person I know who has our powers and could be responsible for this is Goro Akechi.

    The last time we encountered each other, it was after we wiped the floor with him in Shido’s Palace.  After Akechi lost, Shido’s cognition of him ambushed us along with a cadre of Shadows.  For reasons I can’t fathom, he locked himself in with them and that was the last I saw of him.  Given that Shido’s Palace detonated not long after, it doesn’t exactly speak well of the detective’s safety.  Even for a Persona user, surviving something like that wouldn’t be possible.  That being the case, I still can’t shake this feeling in my gut.  Until I see a corpse, there’s no way I’ll believe he’s gone for good.  So long as he’s among the living, he needs to pay for what he’s done.

    Recalling that last encounter, a possibility does present itself to me.  After we were separated, Futaba couldn’t get a read on him, but that wouldn’t be the first time he’s evaded detection.  Back in Sae’s Palace, he somehow managed to break off from the rest of the group and escort a full SWAT team into the Metaverse to ensure my capture.  Between that, his changing outfits as Crow and the Black Mask, his access to the Wild Card, and his ability to trigger psychosis, we frankly don’t have an accurate assessment of his full abilities even now.  His Persona, Loki, I know its mythological origins all too well.  If my true self was able to utilize the positive aspects of the Trickster archetype, then would it be too much of a stretch to think that he-

     Without warning, I feel every inch of my skin crawl as some looming dread hangs over me.  With the supernatural sense of my third eye, I can feel someone’s heavy stare and the weight of the hatred behind it.  Knowing better than to leave myself as an open target in this district at this time of night, I dart into a nearby alleyway out of the range of public surveillance and finally press the red eye that’s been glaring back at me all this time.

     As the world twists and distorts around me in waves of pitch and crimson, it all too quickly reforms.  At first, everything seems just as it was in the real world.  However, I learn otherwise all too quickly.  The city’s formerly subdued red light district now blooms outward with all manner of explicit attractions as Shadows in the guise of their human counterparts walk the streets surveying the myriad of options presented to them.  The sight is a disturbing mixture of both Kamoshida and Sae’s Palaces, with feminine figures and blaring lights as far as the eye can see.  The conclusion comes to but a moment later.  This is what the public must perceive Shinjuku as: a paradise of Lust.

     Attempting to hide the blush forming on my face, I reach upward and feel the leather of my gloves and my mask pressing deeper into my face.  Surveying my person, I find I’ve already been clothed in my Phantom wardrobe.  I suppose if anything, that’s a sign that whoever’s responsible already views me as a threat.

     Feeling malicious intent aimed at me once more, I withdraw my pistol and begin to scan my surroundings for a potential source.  The Shadows continue on with their business, either ignorant or apathetic to my actions.  Grinding my teeth together, I grow desperate enough to call out to my pursuer.

     “If you were hoping for the element of surprise, I’d say you’ve lost it!  Come out now and we can settle this face to face!”

[shadowtarot]

Persona Lore Deep Dive: Just What Is The Thieves Den?

Today I want to talk about the Thieves Den, and it’s explanation from a lore stand point. I will get into third semester talk here so Spoilers.

So, the Den is a hub for Ren and co to go to and just relax. At first it seems to be nothing more than a simple playroom for the player, not adding much to the over all game aside from bonus content. 

But, it’s introduction does lead to you meeting Jose. Yet here, he acts like he hasn’t met you before. He gives a breif explanation on how this place exists due to the memories and thoughts of the Phantom Thieves. Yet...it’s too simple of an answer.

My theory is that, the Thieves Den is what Ren’s Velvet Room was meant to be originally before Yaldaboth took over. Let’s go over what we know about how the Velvet Room works.

For each guest(s) that enter the Velvet Room, the room’s appearance changes to fit that person’s journey, their heart, and their goal. As well as representing the themes of the game itself.

Persona 1′s is quite litterally just the Red Room from Twin Peeks, as it was the inspration.

Persona 2′s was a stage/lounge

Persona 3′s was an Elevator ascending to heaven, with clocks ticking down to doomsday.

Persona 4′s was a Limousine traversing the fog, that lifts slowly as the truth unravels.

And finally Persona 5′s is a prison cell. 

Yet “Igor”, who I’ll just call the Wardon from here on out, was the one running the Velvet Room at the time. And given Mementos Depths is all prison cells, it only makes sense that he’d make the Velvet Room be much the same.

But, didn’t it feel odd when Ren first woke up in that Velvet Room? Note how in other Persona games, the protagonist doesn’t have such a panicked reaction to being where they are. In their cases, the Velvet Room is symbolic and as such brings no threat to them. And it’s something they can sense.

But in Ren’s case? He’s scared, panicking. For him this isn’t a symbolic representation of his heart, but something literal. He had been arrested prior, and he knows the feeling well.

The Wardon’s velvet room doesn’t represent his goal or ideal outcome. It represents his own. 

Now let’s move back to the Thieves Den. Take the base appearance, and you see that it’s a lounge. Probably something more befitting of a Phantom Thief gang to hang out in and plan infiltration, look over past actions and plot their next immediate action. 

It’s practical, and probably would have been a host to the whole team and not just Ren. Yet, having that acess would have made the Warden’s gamble hard. So he overwrote that plan and threw what would have been his Velvet Room into an area so deep into the Metaverse that it wouldn’t be of use to anyone.

Yet clearly Jose finds it, and has explored it long before you first get there. Have you noticed the drawings on the second floor? Childish drawings of six stars. I always thought these stars to represent the residents of the Velvet Room: Elizabeth, Theodore, Margret, Marie, Lavenza.

Though the fact that it’s stars might just be a nod that Jose really likes stars. 

But then we look at the Japanese title for this: “My Palace”. Placed in that perspective, it might explain some things.

Now, Morgana explains early on in the plot that Persona users can’t gain Palaces (due to a need for their shadow to be the one running it.) Yet the Third Semester completely debunks this given that arc’s antagonist, Takuto Maruki, is both a Palace Ruler with a Treasure, and a Persona user. 

So is the Den truly Ren’s Palace? Or is it just that the Velvet Room runs in the same manner as Palaces, thus explaining why they shift in appearance so much? After all, when the Velvet Room attendants and Igor conclude their business with the guest, only then does the room vanish.

And as shown in PQ/PQ2 Igor doesn't need to be present to have a Velvet Room be ran. An attendant can run it on their own if needed. 

Jose stays in the Thieves Den no matter what you do. Just like your average attendant. If he were to leave after the Phantom Thieves no longer needed the Den, would it vanish like a Velvet Room or a Palace?

There’s definitely something interesting about this for sure.