#women in asoiaf

[agentrouka-blog]

women falling into despair and "madness" after their newborns die/are stillborn-> Lysa and Dany parallel each other in such a tragic way.

Also Catelyn / Lady Stoneheart definitely belongs in there.

Much of Cersei's "madness" is motivated by her desperate fear for Tommen's life, as well.

Women going all "godess of creation and destruction" in the face of child loss are a bit of a GRRM pattern in the books, and it's honestly compelling in every case. Given his consistent portrayal of men as stoic fathers at best, and distant, threatening figures at worst, it's interesting how intense and existential grieving mothers are portrayed.

I'm undecided if it's because female characters are only "allowed" to go unhinged when it's not on their own behalf (even in their own eyes), or because GRRM wants to criticize how in a world in which women's importance and contribution is reduced to motherhood the destruction of that sole power unleashes a disproportionately vicious erruption of all their previously suppressed ambition and misgivings.

Because when they are unleashed, it's inevitably harmful and destructive. He is not celebrating that grief. It's not a sign of love, it's a sign of wrath.

Either way, captivating chaos. <3

[catofoldstones]

I hope Bronn dies in a freak accident and Lollys gets all her inheritance that is due to her after so much grief, violence, and loss.

[blissfulphilospher]

Would Lyanna have been less of an idiot if her mother Lyarra was around to make sure she became a proper lady?

We don't know when Lyarra died, neither we know anything else about her except her name and her being from a Stark branch family.

And Lyanna's actions were definitely idiotic but really we don't know her motivation, we don't know even if they were her own or if she was forced. Mr. Martin really likes to fuck with our head.

What her mother could have done? Most she could have only reassured Lyanna that Robert will come around or all men are like that. Because Brandon too was just like Robert, so did Lyanna felt bad for Catelyn?

Lyanna wasn't the only women being wronged. Every woman there is facing infedility. Catelyn even have to live with Jon, who for her and the whole world is Ned's bastard. And if she ran away then she definitely cared about no one but herself.

We actually don't know much about Stark Family'. Ned is Ned because he was raised by Jon 'High as Honor' Arryn.

[daceytheshebear]

Okay but ASOIAF is honestly very good at depicting this. Catelyn Tully, Daenerys Targaryen, Sansa Stark, Arianne Martell, Barbrey Dustin... Several flavours of women dealing with arranged marriages or the prospect of political marriages that are not "oh how I hate to be sold off to be a brood mare". Characters who resent this path have very specific personal and narrative reasons to do so. Cersei Lannister and Lysa Tully come to mind. Refusing marriage all together is even more rare: we only hear about Brienne of Tarth doing that, and her motives are clearly obviously patently different than for most women, she's a true outlier (and not in a "nor like other girls" way).

I'm really tired of the "woman sad about her arranged marriage" trope, especially if that woman is royalty.

I am sure that many women across time were sad about their arranged marriages, but I'm sure a lot of others were excited, ambivalent, or resigned. Again, especially if you were royalty! I am sure if you were born a princess, you were trained from birth that your whole purpose in life was to marry someone important to solidify the power of the person on the throne. And honestly, it's an important job, if it wasn't, they wouldn't have tried so hard to do it.

That woman isn't just marrying another king or prince, she's going to be an ambassador of her country. She's supposed to be there promoting good relations. She isn't just a woman being sold off, she has a job! Also, if she is marrying the reigning monarch (or the heir), she may well end up running the country if the king is off at war or he dies when the heir is really young. That happened a lot throughout history! (or maybe she marries the third son and helps him find his way to the throne. Good for her)

It just feels like a modern sentiment being projected back. In Romeo and Juliet, when Juliet's mother first brings up marrying her to Paris, Juliet's basically cool with it and says she'll try to like him. She would have known this was going to happen because that is what rich women do, they marry into another family so their two families can be buddies. What else would she even be expecting?

It wouldn't bother me so much except that it's all we see! Give me a story about a woman who is like, "Cool, I shall give it my all!" Or she's like rolling up her sleeves and planning how she's going to get the court on her side and rule France, power behind the throne style (these women are mostly portrayed as villains, but who is to say the king would do a better job?). And also, have a little faith in women's fathers? You think men in the past didn't occasionally consider the happiness of their daughters? Not even a little bit?

[stannis-the-freaking-mannis]

elinor costayne! i hate how underrated she is and love the black brides late maegor arc and her role 🎀🎀🎀

also house costayne are blackfyre supporters 🗣️🔥🔥🔥

fit

[meyaoyu]

“what side are you on” the side of the women

[emproleon]

-Princess of Dragonstone and Heir to The Iron Throne-

[winged-wolves]

#the bulk of Cat hate comes from willfully misinterpreting her very logical actions#they know women don't have power and then go Pikachu Face when they have to sneak and steal and take big risks?#they're so mad to see a woman taking actions that should be reserved for men only

I feel like people fundamentally misunderstand many of Catelyn and her “stupid choices”. Cat often does the right thing, but as a woman in Westerosi society, she simply does not have the power needed to back up those actions in a way that matters. Therefore, her plans don’t work.

If Catelyn had men of her own and the benefit of the doubt as a Lord when she apprehended Tyrion, she would have likely been able to question him before running off to Vale and as such Tyrion wouldn’t have been at the mercy of Lysa’s whims. Even if he was, as a Lord instead of a Lady, he would have been seen as Cat’s prisoner, not Lysa’s.

Her decision to release Jaime and trade him for Sansa and Arya would have worked if as a man and Lord she could override Robb’s word, and have men of her own escort Jaime south.

Catelyn was of course right not to allow Theon to go back home and parley (he is a hostage during war time) and again, if she were a Lord and not a Lady she could overrule Robb’s choice to let him go.

She likely would not have allowed Edmure to run off to battle, and as such Tywin likely would have fallen into Robb’s trap.

She wouldn’t have allowed Robb to forsake his vow to marry a Frey, just to marry Jeyne Westerling instead. Thus avoiding the Red Wedding.

If Catelyn were a Lord, and consequently had more power and control, a lot of her “bad decisions” wouldn’t end up being bad decisions at all, but “cautious strategic thinking”.

[sunfyredefender77]

“sadness is condition of motherhood”

[elainiisms]

i support ALL evil women!!! i support the ones who are evil and don't try to hide it, embracing their depravity and cunning, AND i support the ones who are evil and won't even admit it to themselves, who cower behind false notions of righteousness to excuse their sins, who justify every wrongdoing and absolve themselves of all blame because they cannot face their guilt (OR lack-thereof)

[agentrouka-blog]

Cersei is very much like Tywin. She is as dumb as he is (by that I mean, they are not actually dumb but blinded but their own faults and insecurities) the only difference between them is that he was a man so he was trained to be a good administrator and she had no training.

(post referenced)

Let's also remember that Cersei lost her mother at a young age. That's the person who would have been best suited and most responsible for educating her daughter in administrative matters, and after her death Tywin neither remarried nor likely paid that much attention to Cersei's specific education. It was enough that she was uncommonly beautiful and reasonably obedient to him.

We saw how she treated Tyrion's nursemaid. While she may have treated her Septa Saranella with more basic poiliteness, I doubt she felt the same deference that Sansa did for Mordane, especially given her resentment of the differences in her education compared to Jaime.

The queen's face was hard and angry. "Would that I could take a sword to their necks myself." Her voice was starting to slur. "When we were little, Jaime and I were so much alike that even our lord father could not tell us apart. Sometimes as a lark we would dress in each other's clothes and spend a whole day each as the other. Yet even so, when Jaime was given his first sword, there was none for me. 'What do I get?' I remember asking. We were so much alike, I could never understand why they treated us so differently. Jaime learned to fight with sword and lance and mace, while I was taught to smile and sing and please. (ACOK, Sansa VI)

Sansa seems to have been taught alongside the boys at least for part of her education, given she knows she is better at reading and writing than any of her brothers. No such recollection for Cersei. And note the emphasis on fighting for Jaime. Doubtlessly, he was taught by very experienced and competent teachers in everything pertaining to matters of warfare and knighthood. But he's not exactly a bright light when it comes to history, politics or the art of administration either. (Unless it's his special interest The Kingsguard.)

Cersei herself is hilariously aghast at his ignorance at one point.

"And Ossifer Plumm was much too dead, but that did not stop him fathering a child, did it?" Her brother looked lost. "Who was Ossifer Plumm? Was he Lord Philip's father, or . . . who?" He is near as ignorant as Robert. All his wits were in his sword hand. (AFFC, Cersei III)

Tyrion knew what he was about when he emphasized the importance of books and independent reading.

Alas, I was born a Lannister of Casterly Rock, and the grotesqueries are all the poorer. Things are expected of me. My father was the Hand of the King for twenty years. My brother later killed that very same king, as it turns out, but life is full of these little ironies. My sister married the new king and my repulsive nephew will be king after him. I must do my part for the honor of my House, wouldn't you agree? Yet how? Well, my legs may be too small for my body, but my head is too large, although I prefer to think it is just large enough for my mind. I have a realistic grasp of my own strengths and weaknesses. My mind is my weapon. My brother has his sword, King Robert has his warhammer, and I have my mind … and a mind needs books as a sword needs a whetstone, if it is to keep its edge." Tyrion tapped the leather cover of the book. "That's why I read so much, Jon Snow." (AGOT, Tyrion II)

If Tyrion had been born able-bodied he might be as much of a "dumb" disaster as the rest of his siblings. As opposed to the clever disaster he is now.

[shebsart]

[fangrurin]

Fashion of the Great Houses of Westeros: House Tully of Riverrun

[swimmingferret]

⚡ A commission by @panicawa of Empress Daenerys from my fic The Stormborn and the Stormbringer! ⚡

[hargitays]

the enlightened take on rhaenyra & alicent (HOTD) and their GOT counterparts... how do we feel about this 🫂

[nyracel]

something something ‘feminine’ female characters being deserving of all things good and righteous and holy because of them overcoming their suffering by working within the system that hurts them using their wiley feminine attributes and charm something something ‘masculine’ female characters being villainized for fighting outside the constraints of the system they’re still subjected to in a more hands on approach and being victims of similar if not the same circumstances as their ‘feminine’ female peers but it doesn’t count for some reason because they don’t suffer as prettily as their counterparts something something