#wolf hall spoilers

[thomascromwelll]

#mood

'I hear I am to be married.' Wolf Hall: The Mirror and The Light | Episode two 'Obedience'

[cosmic-walkers]

There is such a strong sense of familiarity, trust and respect Mary has for Thomas. I'm specifically speaking about the scenes where she so casually, takes her hair down in front of him like he is a life long friend. Where she hugs him and breaks down, and she quite literally has to be pulled off of him. And then, when she is telling everyone how much he's helped her, and gave her her new horse.

I think it's such a contrast to what Thomas is used to working with royals, especially when it comes to royal women and hair.

I'll never forget the scene in the book, when Anne invited Thomas into her room in the middle of the night, and her hair was out, and she was simply in her night gown. That was a power play by Anne, which Thomas realized. It was showing him that to her, he was less than a person. There was no need to be modest around him because she didn't register him as anyone of note - he is even compared to her fool in that moment. Looking for the page/quote where Thomas explains it...anyway. But why cover your hair for a man you don't consider a man of note?

With Mary it's different. The lack of gable hood, the familiarity, the ability to be around her at her most vulnerable moments. In contrast to Anne, who saw him as nothing, Mary sees him as everything in these small moments. Which is why I think he was so taken aback when she embraced him. Because he isn't used to that. There is no ulterior motive. The last time he was around a royal woman with her hair down, and she was undone, it was the emphasize how little regard she had for him.

Now, when a princess does it, it's to emphasize the opposite. That she sees him as a person and she is so grateful to him.

[terribleoldwhitemen]

@cinemaocd mentioned you on a post “Mark Rylance and Kate Phillips as Thomas Cromwell...”:

@terribleoldwhitemen: Ur tags! EXACTLY! Fuck all Jane/Crom flirtation in the book though she does troll him over the wedding night which I'm still pissed that they didn't include (maybe somehow it will be in the next ep?) but it was a let down for me because it felt like she was building an arc and then dumped it.

​right!! I thought perhaps I wasn't smart enough to catch what mantel was doing in regards to dropping that thread completely in MatL, but I was certainly disappointed, especially with the way the miniseries brought it to the fore. extremely excited to see it highlighted again (even if this first episode is all we end up getting).

[stilltrails]

The parallels between Dorothea and Gregory (and Rafe) in regards to their crumbling perception of Thomas Cromwell is everything.

[austin-friars]

Among many things, I judge Tudor shows a lot by the portrayal of Mary I. So seeing Mary in Wolf Hall was incredibly refreshing. We know a lot of Mary I portrayals can be extremely biased, unfair, and they typically go out of their way to villainize her, paint her as insane, etc. Aside from The Tudors and Becoming Elizabeth, finding a good Mary portrayal is extremely difficult.

So thank god for Wolf Hall making Mary multifaceted, regal, elegant, yet vulnerable and headstrong at the same time. Her relationship with Thomas is also such a huge point of interest for me, I really like how things are going so far.

[polka-spots]

I finally finished the Mirror and the Light and I am inconsolable. Everyone either fled for their own safety or turned on him but Christophe stayed there and then as Thomas walked to his death Christophe called himself a Cromwell and cursed out the king. I am. His own son fled for his own safety and Christophe was the only one to stay and call out Henry, potentially at the cost of his own life. I just. I have no words. I am crying over people who have dead for 500 years, I knew the outcome from the beginning but I found myself hoping that it wouldn't happen and now I am crying about an orphan French boy who probably never existed and thr themes of loyalty to a master, except Henry killed his most loyal servant and Thomas tried to save Christophe except Christophe probably got jimself killed calling out Henry. This is probably incomprehensible but I just have no words for how this ending wrecked me emotionally. Something about loyalty even unto death. And just Christophe risking death to call out the king as Thomas is going to his death, and declaring himself a Cromwell, just fucking ruined me.

[felassan]

rn i'm gonna headcanon that these are manfred's gigantic parents

[alilyamongroses]

And Cromwell fucks like a champ cus of course he does

[runespoor7]

Damien Ramsey and games

One of the things I find super neat about the way Damien is written in both these games is how he adapts his approach to each protagonist (and it's very impressive how Hanako gives the player a completely different story with each game).

In both games, around the same time of the year - in October, though the week varies iirc - if you haven't fallen out of his path, Damien will go to the protag's dormitory to invite them to play a game.

In Horse Hall, where Damien is approaching a wildseed girl who knows nothing of the magical world, Damien comes with a traditional wizarding game and teaches her how to play it. (He first teaches the easy version, and mentions that there are harder variants that they don't need to concern themselves with at the moment.)

In Wolf Hall, where Damien is trying to seduce a wizard-born foreign student who is very excited about his one year in America, Damien comes with a brand-new game from the normal world. (Damien also uses the opportunity to be sure to say he had to make a lot of effort to get it.)

So in both cases, Damien is the one giving them a taste of something they don't know, but want to. In both cases Damien arranges that he's the one who knows the most, he's the one they must look to for guidance.

other things of interest:

in both cases Damien offers playing in the corridor or playing in Mary/Gary's room. Both Mary and Gary answer the corridor - Mary because oooooh being in a room alone with Damien, Gary for other reasons (but Damien's comments show he thinks Gary refuses to have Damien in his room for the same reasons as Mary turned down the offer of being-in-a-room-alone-with-Damien). Damien is very good at what he does.

in Horse Hall, Damien comes by on a day Mary has other obligations (she has Sports Club), but Mary can turn him down and suggest another day; in Wolf Hall however, Damien doesn't manufacture a conflict in Gary's schedule, he just comes by on the day after Thanksgiving. to me that suggests he's making more effort into seducing Mary Sue, which imo fits in with the fact that Gary is iirc more often the one making an effort to go after him - after all, Damien is originally not interested in Gary!

The sudden revelation I had recently is that in Wolf Hall, when William says that Damien "likes games", that's clearly not what he means, and that's certainly not how I ever understood it, but it's apparently also something that is literally true.

The fact is that in both cases Damien picks this specific approach to spend friendly time with the person he's interested in, that he clearly knows how to play said games. Damien does like board games, spending time playing games, probably learning how to play them or learning what's the new hot thing to look out for. cannot believe Damien Ramsey is a NERD with HOBBIES. what's next, he has a heart or something? (Very funny image to picture, though, Mary perplexedly looking on as her demon boyfriend gets very excited at the prospect of visiting a game shop during a date.)

Damien genuinely likes board games.

It's also interesting because it fits in with the comment Hanako made a while ago that in a world without Mary or Gary, the twin Damien would be more likely to go after is Logan, not Luke. And I think there's probably Reasons for it, but aside from that, I was thinking: Luke is simply not confident in himself for Damien to be able to pursue him, Luke would be too spooked. Logan, on the other:

is a Falcon, meaning Damien would have easier access, and might look up to an older Falcon taking him under his wing

"likes secrets," "tries to look mysterious" - that would 100% make it easier for Damien to get into a secret relationship with Logan

is the twin most interested in games, more than Luke (the bingo games are in Logan's room, not Luke's!). that makes it an easy way to Damien to have reasons to chat with him.

At this stage I feel like I may have undercovered one (1) genuine interest of Damien that isn't malicious or dependent on manipulation. After a decade I didn't expect that to happen.

[thomascromwelll]

Cromwell after Wolsey's death | Cromwell looking for Wolsey's ghost Wolf Hall, Ep 2 | Wolf Hall: The Mirror and The Light, Ep 2

"You can persuade the quick to think again, but you cannot remake your reputation with the dead" The Mirror and The Light by Hilary Mantel

[cosmic-walkers]

Wolf Hall spoilers/thoughts -

Amazing first episode and the relationship between Thomas and Mary is everything to me. It is so hard, IMO, for Tudor shows to get Mary right - and they have. She is multifaceted, nuanced, etc. And again, I love her relationship to Thomas. But unfortunately, I also see the seeds between them, planting the path for his downfall...

Speaking of that, Wriothesely - without giving too much away, I was surprised by the route they took with him, but I actually enjoy it. My only complaint about him is that he was supposed to be a red head. But nothing that 20 vol developer, bleach, and some red hair dye won't fix.

Gregory is amazing - I love the new actor, I could not have asked for a better recast. I think Charlie really portrays Gregory in both attitude, physical appearance and general aura. He also looks, like Thomas- I can't explain. The dark eyes, the dark hair.

Thomas and his relationship with Wolsey, also being something immortalized is also quite enjoyable, and it's going to break me, but I enjoy seeing it. Thomas was never able to let Wolsey go.

And then lastly...Thomas cannot keep his damn mouth shut for shit, like sometimes, less is more. The part with Fitzwilliam also sticks out to me, because like he does with the Poles, Thomas sometimes acts out negatively in front of nobles and we know...what that might lead to.

Anyway - I loved the first episode. I NEEEED to see Stephen soon please. Especially with the foreshadow of how he and Thomas' relationship is going to be. He is clearly the big baddie/Vhagar of season 2, and I'm here for it. Like I wanna see those two interact so badly.

And Thomas, learn to say less.

[eleanoroliphant]

i miss the old chapuys. he could have been biased and annoying and slightly ridiculous (at least to cromwell and his lot) but he felt genuine. this guy is just unlikable.

[stilltrails]

starting to thing that Thomas has unknowingly entered his suicidal era driven by guilt and a sense of unbelonging. Because he's playing with fire and he knows it.

he's not an idiot, and knows what will happen, yet he still does it anyway.

[edmundtudor]

me after watching episode 1 of tmatl:

[holyscream]

Also, I gotta say, having watched Y Golau and Four just a few months before made the twist ending of Wolf much funnier.

[ancientmyrddin]

I finished the book I was reading!! It's going to carry a place in my heart for a long while yet